June 19, 2025 • 14 mins
⚡ At a sold-out talk at the Guernsey Literary Festival, Jill and Ollie were interviewed by the BBC’s Steph Watkins about the podcast. Among the stories you may have heard through the series, a few new tales emerged.
💡 In this bonus episode of the podcast hear a special cut of our Literary Festival talk, featuring gardening in Biberach, a powerful moment told from Jill’s perspective, a call to action for everyone listening - and surprising camp stories from the audience.
⚙️ With special thanks to:
➡︎ Jill Chubb, Chair of the Guernsey Deportees Association
➡︎ Steph Watkins, BBC Radio Guernsey
📍 Your host is Ollie Guillou. This is a Channel Islands Podcasts production.
✉️ Share your messages and memories; email hello@ogpodcasts.co.uk
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is a bonus episode of the Genzi Deportees.
If you're new here, I recommend you start with episode 1, The
Deportation order, Hitler's Retaliation.
Otherwise, enjoy. Hello everyone, thank you so
much for joining us this afternoon here at the Ghilali
Library. My name is Steph Watkins, You
will normally find me on Day Times on BBC Radio Genzi.
(00:22):
In April this year, 2025, just before Genzi celebrated the 80th
anniversary of its liberation, Grandma and I were fortunate
enough to give a talk about the podcast at the Guernsey Literary
Festival, hosted by BBC Guernsey's Steph Watkins.
In front of a sold out audience at the Gil Olay Library, we
shared some of the stories from the podcast.
(00:44):
When we got there we had to walkup a hill.
My dad had cut my toes these bits because my feet were
growing and. By the end of it.
There was a queue of people. Lining up to speak to grandma,
even requesting her autograph. Some people wanted to speak to
me too, but. Her queue was.
Much bigger than mine, understandably.
(01:06):
In this bonus episode of The Genzi Deportees, I want to share
a few highlights from our talk. You see, there were things even
I learnt while Grandma spoke at the festival.
Stories she hadn't told me on the podcast, like how her
grandfather was a. Sailor.
Or how it was in Bibirac that she became green fingered.
(01:26):
I actually learnt to do gardening there.
Did you? Yeah.
A lady called Doreen Pierce usedto take me.
They had a little garden eventually, and she showed me
Bunny rabbits, Asante rhinos. She said these are called Bunny
rabbits. I've never forgotten her.
And that's why I like to grow them in my garden even now,
(01:48):
because it reminds me, I supposeit's, it's a, you know, thank
goodness, you know, I'm in my garden and looking out.
Does that make sense to you? Ollie, have you picked up your
gardening skills from your grandma?
Well, I'm just annoyed she didn't tell me that story
either. She's been keeping all the good
ones. But there's so much to tell,
isn't there? I think it's it's really.
(02:09):
Needless to say, 6 episodes wasn't enough to tell every
story. In fact, there was something
else that never made it into themain series too.
A question for you, Ollie. Obviously with hearing these
stories, there's lots of detailsin this.
Were there any strands of the story that didn't make it into
this at all? Yeah, there was 1 strand that I
(02:29):
didn't really get time to cover in any depth was there was a bit
of a conflict of understanding of who suffered the most.
I think the people in Guernsey felt that the people in Bibirac
were living a bit, you know, life of luxury in a way.
They they were fine. They were much better off than
they were in Guernsey. But of course, the people in
(02:50):
Bibirac felt the same way. And I think there was some
correspondence which didn't helpthat 'cause I think there was
some correspondence saying we'refine in the Barack that, you
know, don't worry about us. And, and I think the, you know,
the truth is everyone suffered like grandma said in that in the
trailer, it wasn't a case of whosuffered more greatly.
(03:12):
But I think there is a bit of that that still remains that
there's this understanding that the people of Bibarak were kind
of better off. And and there was the
conversation I had with Matt, which didn't make it into the
podcast. He said if the people in Bibarak
were better off, they also had their freedom stripped away from
(03:32):
them. And Matt says, how, you know,
how valuable is freedom? And I think it's hard to say
which way one or the other, grandma.
And I think you've heard that before as well, haven't you?
Yes, I have. Yeah, I have.
Well, I think you were in Guernsey.
You had walked. I mean, there's a line in
(03:52):
surrounded by sea, which is lovely.
We were deprived of that becausewe were surrounded by double
bird wise towers with guns, dogs, curfews.
You had curfews here. I know, but the you can't you
can never buy freedom and cominghome.
(04:14):
It's it was lovely. We in fact went to Burnley 1st
and I thought that was my home because I had no barn wires.
And my favorite song even now isdon't fence me and they're
playing at my funeral probably, But that's that's what I like.
I like that, not going to be fenced in, but I mean people
(04:35):
over here, they starved and stuff and it was terrible.
I think we sent some parcels over from Bibirac to Guernsey.
One story I tell in the. Podcast in episode 6 is.
That of a German couple and their baby that my grandma met
(04:55):
on holiday in Majorca. It's a really powerful story
because it set her on this path of forgiveness, and since you
don't get to hear it from her perspective in that episode, I
thought I'd ask her to regale the tale during our talk.
Yes, so they're a lovely couple.And this little baby's name was
Tom. And he made a difference to my
(05:17):
life. They they did.
And I looked at this little birdand he was holding his arms up
to me and what can I? You can't but help but pick them
up. You know, He's so lovely.
And I said, Ann, where are you from?
Munich. Oh, I said from, you know,
Germany. Yeah.
And I thought, well, what has this little boy got to do with
(05:38):
what the Nazis did when his ancestors, you know, and they
teach them now not to they're, they're very good in Germany.
But then I thought, you know, this is this is is lovely,
really. And that part of me then started
to realise that and I didn't know quite how long the journey
(06:00):
was going to be, but it's been along journey to get where I am
and to be able to actually talk about it.
And I do forgive them. It's taken me years to do that.
I wouldn't have shaken hands with the German because they
scared me so much, made such a traumatic effect on me.
(06:21):
But I do, I do, because there's more.
Peace is better than war, somebody said.
You've got to fight for peace, but it's a great pity we have
to. Well, they played the podcast in
Germany on Wednesday, didn't they?
Yeah, they played my podcast. Ollie sent it to my good friend,
(06:43):
a lady called Helga Reiser, whomhad I hadn't met.
I've known her now since I've been chairing just a bit before,
and Ollie sent her it and she played it.
They all played it and watched it, just the trailer.
And I've heard from somebody in Bibaracs and said I've had few
emails about their experiences and the war, only one from
(07:06):
Bibarac. But it's interesting to see how
it's spread and I want people toknow.
I just want them not to forget the deportees.
I think as well, what's really clear about this, going through
this process, taking the time totell this story as well, Jill,
(07:27):
this has clearly brought you both closer, which is a
wonderful thing to come out of this.
Ollie, through learning these stories and really sitting down
with your grandma, has anything surprised you?
I think, well, I think the fact that you remember it so clearly
has surprised me a lot. But how candid you have been
with me? I don't know.
(07:49):
One thing that's really surprised me is just how many
people this has touched. I mean, you know, in Guernsey,
it was just over 1000 Islanders.We're not definitely sure on the
exact number, is that right? But how many people have said,
oh, yeah, I've got a family member who was said to be
Barack. And I even was told just before
the talk began about someone whohad a connection that I didn't
(08:09):
realize. And I think, I think it's
amazing how a story like this being told by somebody who
experienced it, allows other people to open up and share and
maybe something that they thought was just a, yeah, I
don't know, become a part of a community of other people
sharing the story. I think that's really important.
And I think that's surprised me just how many people have been
(08:33):
involved in this in a way. And to prove my .1 such.
Story popped up. In the Q and.
AI might, might just add a very short story to what has been
said. My grandmother was at Bibarak.
She was obviously a lot older than you were.
She's a cook or became a cook aseverybody took some of the work
on board. But the Germans didn't get it
(08:56):
right. And they realized it towards the
end of the war. And she and two other women were
shipped back to Guernsey becauseshe was Irish, she wasn't
English. So she and these two other
ladies whose names I don't know,Will was strafed, their train
was strafed all the way across France and they came on what was
(09:19):
more or less the last boat out of St.
Marlow into Guernsey just beforeD-Day.
So she didn't talk a lot about the war, although we do in fact
have a complete set of the Red Cross letters that she that she
sent my mother in England. And so that's been valuable.
(09:39):
And actually, I mentioned how surprised I was that grandma
could remember so much detail about what happened, and so was
1 audience member. Thank you.
I'm amazed at your memory. Since you were only three when
you got there. I was wondering if you
remembered much about when you actually got home to Guernsey
and did you? Did you find your own home and
(10:02):
your own toys? Do you remember getting home?
Yeah, actually I remember flyingout obviously I remember going
to Burnley but I didn't remember.
I didn't remember getting on a train to get a boat or anything.
I don't remember that and I knowwhy.
I mean you can can logic it. It wasn't traumatic as a child,
(10:26):
it was trauma. I think it was a traumatic event
and but that was a lovely event.So, you know, like school, you
forget some things you used to like.
And I think that's what it is. Yeah.
No, I don't really. I remember sailing in and
looking at my aunt and uncle andmy grandmother and I thought
they were going to be Princess and princesses.
(10:47):
They have poor little things. They they weren't like that.
But they're a lovely family. Thank you.
Thank you. It felt amazing to have so much
interaction and to engage with people about the podcast.
Thanks to this talk and this is how we ended our hour.
(11:07):
Together. How important do you feel it is
to be talking with our younger generations in schools to you
know, and and at home as well tomake sure that this history
keeps on living? Well, I mean, children are
impressionable, aren't they? And I think the story is right.
Children will listen to it. I think it's very, very
(11:29):
important for teachers to tell children about it and perhaps
play a podcast, not maybe not dramatic, but not to really
affect them badly, but for them to realise other people suffer,
how the people suffered in the war.
And I think if you teach them atschools, they will remember and
(11:50):
they they will hopefully help them, probably help them one
day. So that's all we can do anyway.
Yeah, and for me, what it's really taught me is, you know,
ever since Grandma was ready to share her story on the BBC and
it just so happened I was a presenter there at the time.
So it was the perfect combination.
She got to share it with a family member too.
(12:12):
And then we developed over the years this lovely connection
where she would tell me bits andbobs about what was going on
with the Deportees Association, which she's now the chair of.
And you know, what it was like returning to Bibarak, all these
little stories and things I was piercing together in my mind.
She told me about, you know, thefeeling of the third third of
the German boots and how that frightened her when she was in
(12:33):
the camp. And, you know, I think the, the
thing I really want to put out there is there's so many people,
especially around my age, maybe a bit younger, think, oh,
grandma, granddad, they've got nothing else to add.
You know, they've got no interesting stories to tell.
But actually, that's obviously so, so untrue.
And I just don't think most of us take the time to actually sit
(12:56):
down with a family member, especially one who's like our
grandparent and say, tell me about your life.
Because I think what you know, once you do do that and ask them
to open up, they'll speak in a way that they just never felt
comfortable to before. And you'll learn so much, not
about not just about them, but about you and your heritage,
where you came from. And I think it can be just as
(13:19):
impactful for you to hear about their stories as it is for them
to share it. And that's really my, I guess my
call to arms is for people to ask their family more like, tell
me about yourself, tell me aboutyour life.
And don't, don't leave it too late.
Don't leave it as late as I did.I'm really, really grateful that
I have my grandma still here with me, but not everybody is.
(13:39):
And time is running up. Thank you.
I think that's all we've got time for today, but I think we
just really should give a big round of applause to Ollie and
Jill. Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to this bonus episode of the Guernsey
Deportees, marking some of the highlights from our talk at the
Guernsey Literary Festival. Grandma and I really deeply
(14:03):
appreciate your support so far for this podcast.
We're finding new listeners eachand every day and making our
mark in the Apple Podcast Charts.
Let's keep it going. Please share this podcast with
everyone you know and make sure you like and subscribe so you
never miss these bonus episodes.Alepa Shoin.
This is a bonus episode of the Genzi Deportees.
If you're new here, I recommend you start with episode 1, The
Deportation order, Hitler's Retaliation.
Otherwise, enjoy. Hello everyone, thank you so
much for joining us this afternoon here at the Ghilali
Library. My name is Steph Watkins, You
will normally find me on Day Times on BBC Radio Genzi.
(00:22):
In April this year, 2025, just before Genzi celebrated the 80th
anniversary of its liberation, Grandma and I were fortunate
enough to give a talk about the podcast at the Guernsey Literary
Festival, hosted by BBC Guernsey's Steph Watkins.
In front of a sold out audience at the Gil Olay Library, we
shared some of the stories from the podcast.
(00:44):
When we got there we had to walkup a hill.
My dad had cut my toes these bits because my feet were
growing and. By the end of it.
There was a queue of people. Lining up to speak to grandma,
even requesting her autograph. Some people wanted to speak to
me too, but. Her queue was.
Much bigger than mine, understandably.
(01:06):
In this bonus episode of The Genzi Deportees, I want to share
a few highlights from our talk. You see, there were things even
I learnt while Grandma spoke at the festival.
Stories she hadn't told me on the podcast, like how her
grandfather was a. Sailor.
Or how it was in Bibirac that she became green fingered.
(01:26):
I actually learnt to do gardening there.
Did you? Yeah.
A lady called Doreen Pierce usedto take me.
They had a little garden eventually, and she showed me
Bunny rabbits, Asante rhinos. She said these are called Bunny
rabbits. I've never forgotten her.
And that's why I like to grow them in my garden even now,
(01:48):
because it reminds me, I supposeit's, it's a, you know, thank
goodness, you know, I'm in my garden and looking out.
Does that make sense to you? Ollie, have you picked up your
gardening skills from your grandma?
Well, I'm just annoyed she didn't tell me that story
either. She's been keeping all the good
ones. But there's so much to tell,
isn't there? I think it's it's really.
(02:09):
Needless to say, 6 episodes wasn't enough to tell every
story. In fact, there was something
else that never made it into themain series too.
A question for you, Ollie. Obviously with hearing these
stories, there's lots of detailsin this.
Were there any strands of the story that didn't make it into
this at all? Yeah, there was 1 strand that I
(02:29):
didn't really get time to cover in any depth was there was a bit
of a conflict of understanding of who suffered the most.
I think the people in Guernsey felt that the people in Bibirac
were living a bit, you know, life of luxury in a way.
They they were fine. They were much better off than
they were in Guernsey. But of course, the people in
(02:50):
Bibirac felt the same way. And I think there was some
correspondence which didn't helpthat 'cause I think there was
some correspondence saying we'refine in the Barack that, you
know, don't worry about us. And, and I think the, you know,
the truth is everyone suffered like grandma said in that in the
trailer, it wasn't a case of whosuffered more greatly.
(03:12):
But I think there is a bit of that that still remains that
there's this understanding that the people of Bibarak were kind
of better off. And and there was the
conversation I had with Matt, which didn't make it into the
podcast. He said if the people in Bibarak
were better off, they also had their freedom stripped away from
(03:32):
them. And Matt says, how, you know,
how valuable is freedom? And I think it's hard to say
which way one or the other, grandma.
And I think you've heard that before as well, haven't you?
Yes, I have. Yeah, I have.
Well, I think you were in Guernsey.
You had walked. I mean, there's a line in
(03:52):
surrounded by sea, which is lovely.
We were deprived of that becausewe were surrounded by double
bird wise towers with guns, dogs, curfews.
You had curfews here. I know, but the you can't you
can never buy freedom and cominghome.
(04:14):
It's it was lovely. We in fact went to Burnley 1st
and I thought that was my home because I had no barn wires.
And my favorite song even now isdon't fence me and they're
playing at my funeral probably, But that's that's what I like.
I like that, not going to be fenced in, but I mean people
(04:35):
over here, they starved and stuff and it was terrible.
I think we sent some parcels over from Bibirac to Guernsey.
One story I tell in the. Podcast in episode 6 is.
That of a German couple and their baby that my grandma met
(04:55):
on holiday in Majorca. It's a really powerful story
because it set her on this path of forgiveness, and since you
don't get to hear it from her perspective in that episode, I
thought I'd ask her to regale the tale during our talk.
Yes, so they're a lovely couple.And this little baby's name was
Tom. And he made a difference to my
(05:17):
life. They they did.
And I looked at this little birdand he was holding his arms up
to me and what can I? You can't but help but pick them
up. You know, He's so lovely.
And I said, Ann, where are you from?
Munich. Oh, I said from, you know,
Germany. Yeah.
And I thought, well, what has this little boy got to do with
(05:38):
what the Nazis did when his ancestors, you know, and they
teach them now not to they're, they're very good in Germany.
But then I thought, you know, this is this is is lovely,
really. And that part of me then started
to realise that and I didn't know quite how long the journey
(06:00):
was going to be, but it's been along journey to get where I am
and to be able to actually talk about it.
And I do forgive them. It's taken me years to do that.
I wouldn't have shaken hands with the German because they
scared me so much, made such a traumatic effect on me.
(06:21):
But I do, I do, because there's more.
Peace is better than war, somebody said.
You've got to fight for peace, but it's a great pity we have
to. Well, they played the podcast in
Germany on Wednesday, didn't they?
Yeah, they played my podcast. Ollie sent it to my good friend,
(06:43):
a lady called Helga Reiser, whomhad I hadn't met.
I've known her now since I've been chairing just a bit before,
and Ollie sent her it and she played it.
They all played it and watched it, just the trailer.
And I've heard from somebody in Bibaracs and said I've had few
emails about their experiences and the war, only one from
(07:06):
Bibarac. But it's interesting to see how
it's spread and I want people toknow.
I just want them not to forget the deportees.
I think as well, what's really clear about this, going through
this process, taking the time totell this story as well, Jill,
(07:27):
this has clearly brought you both closer, which is a
wonderful thing to come out of this.
Ollie, through learning these stories and really sitting down
with your grandma, has anything surprised you?
I think, well, I think the fact that you remember it so clearly
has surprised me a lot. But how candid you have been
with me? I don't know.
(07:49):
One thing that's really surprised me is just how many
people this has touched. I mean, you know, in Guernsey,
it was just over 1000 Islanders.We're not definitely sure on the
exact number, is that right? But how many people have said,
oh, yeah, I've got a family member who was said to be
Barack. And I even was told just before
the talk began about someone whohad a connection that I didn't
(08:09):
realize. And I think, I think it's
amazing how a story like this being told by somebody who
experienced it, allows other people to open up and share and
maybe something that they thought was just a, yeah, I
don't know, become a part of a community of other people
sharing the story. I think that's really important.
And I think that's surprised me just how many people have been
(08:33):
involved in this in a way. And to prove my .1 such.
Story popped up. In the Q and.
AI might, might just add a very short story to what has been
said. My grandmother was at Bibarak.
She was obviously a lot older than you were.
She's a cook or became a cook aseverybody took some of the work
on board. But the Germans didn't get it
(08:56):
right. And they realized it towards the
end of the war. And she and two other women were
shipped back to Guernsey becauseshe was Irish, she wasn't
English. So she and these two other
ladies whose names I don't know,Will was strafed, their train
was strafed all the way across France and they came on what was
(09:19):
more or less the last boat out of St.
Marlow into Guernsey just beforeD-Day.
So she didn't talk a lot about the war, although we do in fact
have a complete set of the Red Cross letters that she that she
sent my mother in England. And so that's been valuable.
(09:39):
And actually, I mentioned how surprised I was that grandma
could remember so much detail about what happened, and so was
1 audience member. Thank you.
I'm amazed at your memory. Since you were only three when
you got there. I was wondering if you
remembered much about when you actually got home to Guernsey
and did you? Did you find your own home and
(10:02):
your own toys? Do you remember getting home?
Yeah, actually I remember flyingout obviously I remember going
to Burnley but I didn't remember.
I didn't remember getting on a train to get a boat or anything.
I don't remember that and I knowwhy.
I mean you can can logic it. It wasn't traumatic as a child,
(10:26):
it was trauma. I think it was a traumatic event
and but that was a lovely event.So, you know, like school, you
forget some things you used to like.
And I think that's what it is. Yeah.
No, I don't really. I remember sailing in and
looking at my aunt and uncle andmy grandmother and I thought
they were going to be Princess and princesses.
(10:47):
They have poor little things. They they weren't like that.
But they're a lovely family. Thank you.
Thank you. It felt amazing to have so much
interaction and to engage with people about the podcast.
Thanks to this talk and this is how we ended our hour.
(11:07):
Together. How important do you feel it is
to be talking with our younger generations in schools to you
know, and and at home as well tomake sure that this history
keeps on living? Well, I mean, children are
impressionable, aren't they? And I think the story is right.
Children will listen to it. I think it's very, very
(11:29):
important for teachers to tell children about it and perhaps
play a podcast, not maybe not dramatic, but not to really
affect them badly, but for them to realise other people suffer,
how the people suffered in the war.
And I think if you teach them atschools, they will remember and
(11:50):
they they will hopefully help them, probably help them one
day. So that's all we can do anyway.
Yeah, and for me, what it's really taught me is, you know,
ever since Grandma was ready to share her story on the BBC and
it just so happened I was a presenter there at the time.
So it was the perfect combination.
She got to share it with a family member too.
(12:12):
And then we developed over the years this lovely connection
where she would tell me bits andbobs about what was going on
with the Deportees Association, which she's now the chair of.
And you know, what it was like returning to Bibarak, all these
little stories and things I was piercing together in my mind.
She told me about, you know, thefeeling of the third third of
the German boots and how that frightened her when she was in
(12:33):
the camp. And, you know, I think the, the
thing I really want to put out there is there's so many people,
especially around my age, maybe a bit younger, think, oh,
grandma, granddad, they've got nothing else to add.
You know, they've got no interesting stories to tell.
But actually, that's obviously so, so untrue.
And I just don't think most of us take the time to actually sit
(12:56):
down with a family member, especially one who's like our
grandparent and say, tell me about your life.
Because I think what you know, once you do do that and ask them
to open up, they'll speak in a way that they just never felt
comfortable to before. And you'll learn so much, not
about not just about them, but about you and your heritage,
where you came from. And I think it can be just as
(13:19):
impactful for you to hear about their stories as it is for them
to share it. And that's really my, I guess my
call to arms is for people to ask their family more like, tell
me about yourself, tell me aboutyour life.
And don't, don't leave it too late.
Don't leave it as late as I did.I'm really, really grateful that
I have my grandma still here with me, but not everybody is.
(13:39):
And time is running up. Thank you.
I think that's all we've got time for today, but I think we
just really should give a big round of applause to Ollie and
Jill. Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to this bonus episode of the Guernsey
Deportees, marking some of the highlights from our talk at the
Guernsey Literary Festival. Grandma and I really deeply
(14:03):
appreciate your support so far for this podcast.
We're finding new listeners eachand every day and making our
mark in the Apple Podcast Charts.
Let's keep it going. Please share this podcast with
everyone you know and make sure you like and subscribe so you
never miss these bonus episodes.Alepa Shoin.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.