May 17, 2025 • 22 mins
**This is a bonus episode. If you've not tuned in before, I recommend you start at Episode 1**
⚡ Shortly after this podcast first aired, a German journalist reached out to me - and said she was “moved to tears” by Grandma’s story. In particular, her experiences in Dorsten transit camp. That’s because Jana Magdanz was born in Dorsten - and only this year began learning about what happened there in 1942.
💡 In this special bonus episode of the podcast we meet Jana, who’s made it her mission to tell the people of Dorsten what happened during the deportations - a story she says is not well known in Germany. She works for German Public Radio, WDR Cologne - their equivalent of the BBC.
🔎 Her report went live on 9th May, Guernsey’s Liberation Day. You can find it by following this link.
📍 Your host is Ollie Guillou. This is a Channel Islands Podcasts production.
✉️ Share your messages and memories; email hello@ogpodcasts.co.uk
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
What I want to bring to my listeners is to realise the
endless suffering that war brings to people and the
experiences and the suffering burn themselves into the soul
and never go away. Welcome back to a bonus episode
of the Guernsey Deportees. I'm Ali Gue.
A few weeks ago, I received an unexpected e-mail from a
(00:23):
journalist in Germany who said she was moved to tears while
listening to Grandma relive her experiences at Dorston.
That's The Dirty, horrible transit camp the deportees were
sent to on their way to Bibarak,the place that Grandma said
she'd never visit again. This was especially poignant for
this particular German journalist because she was born
(00:46):
in Dorston and her name is Yana Magdans.
I'm a journalist working for German public radio at WDR.
Cologne is the broadcasting station.
It's comparable to the BBC in Great Britain.
In her e-mail, Jana told me people in Dalston aren't aware
(01:07):
of the horrible things that happened in the autumn of 1942
and she desperately wants to change that.
And on the 9th of May, Guernsey's Liberation Day, she
aired a 22 minute report on her radio station revealing exactly
what happened, featuring clips of Grandma from this podcast.
So I thought it would be good tocatch up with her and find out
(01:28):
how her report came about. Enjoy.
I decided to report on the deportations from Jersey because
I was on holidays in Jersey and heard about the story, which
nobody knows in Germany. OK, that's interesting.
So it's not something that you had a connection to before
(01:51):
because it's not spoken about. So actually you had to come to
the island. You had no clue at the time
before you arrived in Jersey, that there was this history.
No, I I didn't. And I think it only happened
because in Jersey and in Guernsey as well, people like to
talk about this period of time, Second World War, the the
(02:12):
occupation and the deportation. I didn't know about till this
year. And I've been to Jersey 7 or 8
times already. So yeah, it was kind of a
coincidence to learn about this story.
And when I dove into it, I learned that it has a connection
(02:32):
to the place I was born. Yeah, that's fascinating because
I would have thought the reason you'd gone down this rabbit
hole, because as you know, I I've spent a lot of time in it
and it is a rabbit hole and it is one that you can go very deep
into that you would have had some prior connection.
I guess you knew about the occupation of the islands
though. Right.
(02:52):
That from my visits in in Jerseybecause of all the bunkers and
we even stayed in one from Jersey Heritage, which they rent
out for tourists. And so I kind of learned the
story about them, about the occupation, but didn't know
anything about the deportees from Jersey and Guernsey.
And that took some time, just byaccident.
(03:15):
I learnt about it and thought that's a very interesting story
that people were brought to Germany, many, many people.
And as I started researching, I,I just couldn't believe that
there was a transit camp in Dorston where I was born.
And I, I didn't find anything inDorston for a long time.
(03:37):
So yeah, there's not much known about it.
Quite a coincidence as well then, that you discovered this
in the year that I released thispodcast, right?
So did you stumble across the podcast yourself?
Was it recommended to you? Yes, somebody I talked to in
Jersey. I heard about the podcast in BBC
Radio Jersey, and he wrote an e-mail and said, well, Yana, we
(04:01):
talked about this part of the history of Jersey and there's
somebody who did a podcast, so it was passed on to me.
Wow. And what was it like listening
to that? Because as people will have
heard, episode 2 is focused purely on Dorsten and that
experience, which was a really strongly emotive one for my
(04:22):
grandma in particular. So listening to that episode,
what did it teach you about thatand and how was how did you
react it? Was very, very interesting for
me because at that point I was already head over heels in my
research and tried to put together all the facts and
(04:42):
learning that somebody had done it already and gathered all the
details, the facts about Dawson,the camp, the transit camp.
That was very, very nice. But I listened to it first from
a professional point of view to check my facts.
And when I listened to it the second time, it was that it got
(05:03):
more personal for myself becausethis awful experience your
grandma is talking about arriving in the transit camp in
Dorston at the Sloughs that makes it so vividly clear.
Many families were just put fromtheir familiar lives onto a
cargo ship, onto a train to a dark, humid, filthy place nobody
(05:25):
could relate to. And the question for how long?
Nobody knew. How long is the war still going
on? And we now know the times and
figures back then, nobody knew. And that must have felt hopeless
and despaired. And your podcast, your grandma
talking about this awful stretchof time, I felt so ashamed for
(05:47):
the people who had done it to your grandma and all the other
families that my people treated families from a, from a place
like Guernsey and Jersey so badly.
Yeah. Was was very emotional for me.
(06:08):
When you refer to your people, Iguess it means even more to you
because you're not just from Germany, you're from Dorston
actually, where this happened. So that must have really made
you see your home in a differentlight, I suppose.
Right. And we talk about guilt a lot of
the time in Germany, referring to the Second World War and all
(06:32):
the bad things that happened to Jewish people and to slave
workers and everything. And it is a big discussion
because my parents weren't even born during the war and they
were born after the war. And obviously I'm two
generations on. But still, it weighs heavily
that people are able to do such horrible things to other people.
(06:57):
And knowing that Dorston was part of it, I know that there
were thousands of camps in Germany everywhere, but that was
a part where maybe I was even could have had a stroll along
the canal with my dog and have agood time and feel safe and
(07:19):
good. And there's the soil where so
many bad things happened to people and where somebody lay on
their bunk bed and yeah, cried, cried themselves to sleep.
So I could I could relate differently to it now.
Yeah, it's interesting, that idea of generational guilt, that
(07:41):
it can be passed down even though you had nothing to do
with it. Because my grandma tells this
amazing story about the moment where she met a German couple
and their child and realized that she couldn't blame the
people who are here now for whathappened to her.
And even though that is the caseand that really that was quite
freeing for her. You're also here telling me that
(08:02):
there is this generational guiltthat's passed down that you do
feel some of the blame of what happened.
Do you think that's common in Germany, that people feel that
way? Yes, I think that's quite
common. But there are also people who
say I didn't do anything wrong and has it has nothing to do
with me. I think that that's, that's
(08:24):
perfectly fine and it's true. But I think we have a
responsibility not for what has happened, but for all the things
that might happen in the future.That's my my point of view why I
engaged in telling this story inthe 1st place, because I think
we have to tell these stories toprevent bad things happening in
(08:48):
the future. Can you tell me, were there any
moments that really stood out toyou in the podcast that really
cut deep for you? Yes, there was one thing that
stuck out. I think it was the last episode
you recorded. And the fact that that this
experience never ends and will never go away for the people who
(09:10):
suffered through this, and that the trauma is even passed on to
the next generations, I think I deeply believe in even worse
when families don't talk about it and the next generation
doesn't even know where a dark looming wound in the soul comes
from. And this is one reason I chose
to report about this period morethan 80 years ago, to shed light
(09:31):
into the dark. And so This is why you've made
your mission, your mission to tell people in Dorston and
Germany what happened. But it was also spurred on in
part, wasn't it, because Doctor Jilly Carr visited Dorston?
Yes, that's true. And I learned about Jilly Carr
research when I met the mayor inDorston.
(09:54):
I visited the place, the campsite, and I learned about
her research. I firmly believe that there's
always a dangerous tendency in societies to fall for populist
messages to such an extent that people, many people, think if
only foreigners were finally gone, then everything would be
better. There's a tendency right now
(10:15):
that is very strong, I believe, and I think history should teach
us a lesson to not make the samemistakes over and over again.
And till this day, we had eyewitnesses who can could tell
from that time. And when I learned about
Professor Jillica's research that she does with objects from
(10:37):
a time. So objects tell a story that
that gave me so much hope because I always wondered what
is going to happen if we don't have somebody telling young
people about awful experiences during the war from maybe
Holocaust survivors who could still tell about Auschwitz and,
(10:59):
and those places. And hearing about Julie Carr's
research gave me a new door. We could all go through and tell
stories with objects which will be around for quite a while if
we archive them and have them ina museum.
So that was really interesting. And yeah, I think in Dorston
(11:21):
they are very keen to, they are always have exhibitions and they
have this Jewish museum which they are very proud of.
And it's it's a great place to commemorate and make things
happen. And maybe sometime in the future
there could be objects from thistime from the deportees.
I hope so at least. Grandma describes it in the
(11:43):
podcast as a dirty place, dark in this industrial town.
How has Dorston changed over theyears, and how different is that
description of it now? Well, it has changed quite a
bit. When the coal mines closed down
25 years ago, the city started to change its countenance.
(12:03):
It's fairly green now. There's there are marked bikes
tours in the vicinity and forests and riverbanks.
And there's even a little bit ofan of an Old Town, although much
of the old building stock was bombed and destroyed in the war.
So it's one of those many towns in Germany that tells about this
(12:24):
particular time of in history because new living space had
been built up after the war. And it's not the most beautiful
houses. Yeah.
So it still carries from that time.
But Dustin is a particularly proud of its commitment to the
culture of remembrance with thismuseum I mentioned.
(12:44):
And yeah, it's, it's facing up to its, to its own history and
learning from it. They have this project which
which is called Inan Fuditsukun remembering for the future.
And they have little things going on and they put Strobosch
Diner in the ground. And so it's, it's a very strong
cultural life, city life, livelyneighborhoods.
(13:07):
And they make a lot of music. And I really like it because
it's it's a very lively place. We mentioned Doctor Jilly Carr
when she went back to Dorston, even though clearly it's changed
dramatically, she did find it and really emotional experience.
And I think it, you know, she's spoken to people who've been
(13:28):
deported from Jersey, from Guernsey, from the Channel
Islands for years and years and years.
So I guess for her, it was a culmination of all those stories
and finally, she was, you know, at this place where these
stories originated from. But actually, what is there now
where the camp used to be? You know, there's no sign of it
really, is there? It's you said you may have been
(13:49):
even walking your dogs around there.
What does it look like where thecamp used to be now?
Yeah, there's not even a sign upright now.
I hope in the future when the mayor listens to your podcast
and to my radio feature, maybe that's going to change because a
sign and a few facts about the history would be very nice.
But right now it's a thick forest, lush and green.
(14:12):
It's huge Birch, Birch trees. There are many footpaths along
the Lipper River and the canal today for hikers, but this
particular area is closed up there.
I think there's even a fence around it.
And it's it's right now it's an archery club in the middle of
the forest. So men and women shoot errors
(14:32):
arrows for fun between the trees.
And they put big objects like a plastic cow or something in the
middle of the forest and try to aim at it.
And when I visit the visited theplace, somebody interrupted
their archery training for me and choked me around.
(14:52):
There's, there's not, no rooms left.
So there's no, no rest of barracks or anything, but a lot
of foundations of the barracks. And there's even a thing where a
lorry can back up to and things were unloaded, I don't know,
maybe food or coal or whatever. And that's still in the forest.
(15:15):
So I heard Professor Julika would love to come back and dig
around and do her archaeologistswork.
So that would be very interesting.
There is still bunkers in the ground that you can see.
So maybe cold bunkers and potatobunkers where where these things
were stored. So this would be quite a bit to
(15:36):
unravel and explore I think. Is there anything which would be
instantly recognisable for Grandma if she was going to go
back? There's anything which remains
unchanged. I don't really think that she
would recognise anything. I've seen pictures that were
from the construction of the camp a few years before your
(15:58):
grandma came to Dorston and there's nothing that's really
would remind her of it today. So it's it's all gone, which I
really, I think it's really nicethat it's not still there
because it's really ugly, awful architecture.
And you can with one look at it,you can see it's not a very nice
(16:19):
place because it's with fences and barbed wire and everything.
It's just what was a horrible vision.
And I'm very glad that everything is gone.
But I think from a professional archaeologist point of view, it
will be very interesting to dig out objects.
But right now it's it's a recreational space and your
(16:42):
grandma would probably just enjoy a nice stroll in the in
the forest. Even though it's changed so
much, then for you, going there with the knowledge that you have
now, has it changed what it looks like to you, your your
view of it? Yes, a little bit.
(17:02):
It wasn't for me. It wasn't a very nice
experience. I think what what this very nice
guy from the archery club told us.
He loves the place, it's a very nice place, but he still feels
something. And I went there with all this
knowledge, what has happened there.
And yeah, it's kind of, it's pressing you down.
(17:23):
It's not a very, very nice experience.
And you've mentioned that you'vespoken to the mayor of Dorston
for this special report that you're doing.
And you, you told me that reconciliation is really
important to him. Why does he want to reconcile
(17:47):
with the past? Mayor Tobias Stockhoff was
amazed by the friendliness and the lively commemoration culture
in in Jersey. He visited Jersey for Liberation
Day in 2023 on invitation of thebailiff.
And in my radio piece he says for him the invitation was a
(18:08):
very strong signal. Another city could have been
invited, that's what he said. But they invited the city, where
people from the Channel Islands have also experienced suffering.
To face up to 1's own history and conversely, to give those
who have suffered a chance has made a great, great impact on
him. So this reaching out to him from
(18:31):
the Channel Islands was very moving for him.
And he's keen on building a friendship between nations.
He says there are certain days during the year, for example,
the liberation of Auschwitz or aparticularly heavy bombing of
Dorsten. On those days he really has
(18:52):
ceremonies and he would never beon holidays on these dates
because it's so important to himto remember these things.
And so they because of him, but because of a very long
tradition, they have a a strong commemoration culture
endorsement. Meeting Julie Carr of Flying to
(19:12):
Jersey for Liberation Day is very important and a very
important instruments from promoting democracy and human
dignity. That's what he said in a press
article, and it emphasises the need to face up to history and
learn from it for the future. And tell me a little bit more
about the special report then what features in it like and how
(19:35):
does the story unfold for you? I'm in the tradition of
storytelling, so I follow all the questions that came into my
head when I started researching.So I start in Dorston and there
are not many answers in Dorston right now.
And so I had to go to the Channel Islands and find answers
there and talk to deportees, ex deportees who came later came
(20:01):
back to to Jersey. I wasn't able to go to Guernsey
because there was no ship service right now.
And that led me back to Dorston.So it's came all the way around.
And what I want to bring to my listeners is to realise the
endless suffering that war brings to people and.
(20:23):
The experiences and the suffering burn themselves into
the soul and never go away. It also affects the next
generation, the children and thegrandchildren.
And there must be other ways fornations to deal with each other.
And the last word that affected us directly was very, very long
time ago. But it's important to never stop
talking about it, I think. Otherwise this option will lose
(20:47):
its horror. And that would be fatal, I
think. So through a story that really
happened to people who can stilltalk about it today is very,
very important, I think. And it's great listening to to
all these experiences and build a connection.
That's what I'm very, very much like, to come to a place like
(21:09):
Jersey and have a connection to people because everybody's so
friendly. Although I'm German and I don't
experience this a lot in other countries, there's sometimes, I
wouldn't say hatred, but I was called a fascist once just out
of the blue. And yeah, that would, I think,
never happen in in in the Channel Islands because people
(21:31):
rather like to talk and build a connection and not keep their
hatred. Well, it sounds like a very
powerful report that you're putting together, and I'm really
glad that we made this connection.
Yana, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Olly.
Dana's report is in German, but I'll drop a link to it in the
(21:52):
show notes if you're interested.Thanks to your support, this
podcast has made it into the Apple Podcast charts as one of
the top history podcasts in the UK.
If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show to boost
us further up the charts and getthis message out there.
In the next bonus episode, I meet Keith Pengele and Nicola
Hiray, the guys behind the Islands at War podcast, which is
(22:13):
all about the occupation of the Channel Islands.
I'm Molly GUI, thanks for listening.
What I want to bring to my listeners is to realise the
endless suffering that war brings to people and the
experiences and the suffering burn themselves into the soul
and never go away. Welcome back to a bonus episode
of the Guernsey Deportees. I'm Ali Gue.
A few weeks ago, I received an unexpected e-mail from a
(00:23):
journalist in Germany who said she was moved to tears while
listening to Grandma relive her experiences at Dorston.
That's The Dirty, horrible transit camp the deportees were
sent to on their way to Bibarak,the place that Grandma said
she'd never visit again. This was especially poignant for
this particular German journalist because she was born
(00:46):
in Dorston and her name is Yana Magdans.
I'm a journalist working for German public radio at WDR.
Cologne is the broadcasting station.
It's comparable to the BBC in Great Britain.
In her e-mail, Jana told me people in Dalston aren't aware
(01:07):
of the horrible things that happened in the autumn of 1942
and she desperately wants to change that.
And on the 9th of May, Guernsey's Liberation Day, she
aired a 22 minute report on her radio station revealing exactly
what happened, featuring clips of Grandma from this podcast.
So I thought it would be good tocatch up with her and find out
(01:28):
how her report came about. Enjoy.
I decided to report on the deportations from Jersey because
I was on holidays in Jersey and heard about the story, which
nobody knows in Germany. OK, that's interesting.
So it's not something that you had a connection to before
(01:51):
because it's not spoken about. So actually you had to come to
the island. You had no clue at the time
before you arrived in Jersey, that there was this history.
No, I I didn't. And I think it only happened
because in Jersey and in Guernsey as well, people like to
talk about this period of time, Second World War, the the
(02:12):
occupation and the deportation. I didn't know about till this
year. And I've been to Jersey 7 or 8
times already. So yeah, it was kind of a
coincidence to learn about this story.
And when I dove into it, I learned that it has a connection
(02:32):
to the place I was born. Yeah, that's fascinating because
I would have thought the reason you'd gone down this rabbit
hole, because as you know, I I've spent a lot of time in it
and it is a rabbit hole and it is one that you can go very deep
into that you would have had some prior connection.
I guess you knew about the occupation of the islands
though. Right.
(02:52):
That from my visits in in Jerseybecause of all the bunkers and
we even stayed in one from Jersey Heritage, which they rent
out for tourists. And so I kind of learned the
story about them, about the occupation, but didn't know
anything about the deportees from Jersey and Guernsey.
And that took some time, just byaccident.
(03:15):
I learnt about it and thought that's a very interesting story
that people were brought to Germany, many, many people.
And as I started researching, I,I just couldn't believe that
there was a transit camp in Dorston where I was born.
And I, I didn't find anything inDorston for a long time.
(03:37):
So yeah, there's not much known about it.
Quite a coincidence as well then, that you discovered this
in the year that I released thispodcast, right?
So did you stumble across the podcast yourself?
Was it recommended to you? Yes, somebody I talked to in
Jersey. I heard about the podcast in BBC
Radio Jersey, and he wrote an e-mail and said, well, Yana, we
(04:01):
talked about this part of the history of Jersey and there's
somebody who did a podcast, so it was passed on to me.
Wow. And what was it like listening
to that? Because as people will have
heard, episode 2 is focused purely on Dorsten and that
experience, which was a really strongly emotive one for my
(04:22):
grandma in particular. So listening to that episode,
what did it teach you about thatand and how was how did you
react it? Was very, very interesting for
me because at that point I was already head over heels in my
research and tried to put together all the facts and
(04:42):
learning that somebody had done it already and gathered all the
details, the facts about Dawson,the camp, the transit camp.
That was very, very nice. But I listened to it first from
a professional point of view to check my facts.
And when I listened to it the second time, it was that it got
(05:03):
more personal for myself becausethis awful experience your
grandma is talking about arriving in the transit camp in
Dorston at the Sloughs that makes it so vividly clear.
Many families were just put fromtheir familiar lives onto a
cargo ship, onto a train to a dark, humid, filthy place nobody
(05:25):
could relate to. And the question for how long?
Nobody knew. How long is the war still going
on? And we now know the times and
figures back then, nobody knew. And that must have felt hopeless
and despaired. And your podcast, your grandma
talking about this awful stretchof time, I felt so ashamed for
(05:47):
the people who had done it to your grandma and all the other
families that my people treated families from a, from a place
like Guernsey and Jersey so badly.
Yeah. Was was very emotional for me.
(06:08):
When you refer to your people, Iguess it means even more to you
because you're not just from Germany, you're from Dorston
actually, where this happened. So that must have really made
you see your home in a differentlight, I suppose.
Right. And we talk about guilt a lot of
the time in Germany, referring to the Second World War and all
(06:32):
the bad things that happened to Jewish people and to slave
workers and everything. And it is a big discussion
because my parents weren't even born during the war and they
were born after the war. And obviously I'm two
generations on. But still, it weighs heavily
that people are able to do such horrible things to other people.
(06:57):
And knowing that Dorston was part of it, I know that there
were thousands of camps in Germany everywhere, but that was
a part where maybe I was even could have had a stroll along
the canal with my dog and have agood time and feel safe and
(07:19):
good. And there's the soil where so
many bad things happened to people and where somebody lay on
their bunk bed and yeah, cried, cried themselves to sleep.
So I could I could relate differently to it now.
Yeah, it's interesting, that idea of generational guilt, that
(07:41):
it can be passed down even though you had nothing to do
with it. Because my grandma tells this
amazing story about the moment where she met a German couple
and their child and realized that she couldn't blame the
people who are here now for whathappened to her.
And even though that is the caseand that really that was quite
freeing for her. You're also here telling me that
(08:02):
there is this generational guiltthat's passed down that you do
feel some of the blame of what happened.
Do you think that's common in Germany, that people feel that
way? Yes, I think that's quite
common. But there are also people who
say I didn't do anything wrong and has it has nothing to do
with me. I think that that's, that's
(08:24):
perfectly fine and it's true. But I think we have a
responsibility not for what has happened, but for all the things
that might happen in the future.That's my my point of view why I
engaged in telling this story inthe 1st place, because I think
we have to tell these stories toprevent bad things happening in
(08:48):
the future. Can you tell me, were there any
moments that really stood out toyou in the podcast that really
cut deep for you? Yes, there was one thing that
stuck out. I think it was the last episode
you recorded. And the fact that that this
experience never ends and will never go away for the people who
(09:10):
suffered through this, and that the trauma is even passed on to
the next generations, I think I deeply believe in even worse
when families don't talk about it and the next generation
doesn't even know where a dark looming wound in the soul comes
from. And this is one reason I chose
to report about this period morethan 80 years ago, to shed light
(09:31):
into the dark. And so This is why you've made
your mission, your mission to tell people in Dorston and
Germany what happened. But it was also spurred on in
part, wasn't it, because Doctor Jilly Carr visited Dorston?
Yes, that's true. And I learned about Jilly Carr
research when I met the mayor inDorston.
(09:54):
I visited the place, the campsite, and I learned about
her research. I firmly believe that there's
always a dangerous tendency in societies to fall for populist
messages to such an extent that people, many people, think if
only foreigners were finally gone, then everything would be
better. There's a tendency right now
(10:15):
that is very strong, I believe, and I think history should teach
us a lesson to not make the samemistakes over and over again.
And till this day, we had eyewitnesses who can could tell
from that time. And when I learned about
Professor Jillica's research that she does with objects from
(10:37):
a time. So objects tell a story that
that gave me so much hope because I always wondered what
is going to happen if we don't have somebody telling young
people about awful experiences during the war from maybe
Holocaust survivors who could still tell about Auschwitz and,
(10:59):
and those places. And hearing about Julie Carr's
research gave me a new door. We could all go through and tell
stories with objects which will be around for quite a while if
we archive them and have them ina museum.
So that was really interesting. And yeah, I think in Dorston
(11:21):
they are very keen to, they are always have exhibitions and they
have this Jewish museum which they are very proud of.
And it's it's a great place to commemorate and make things
happen. And maybe sometime in the future
there could be objects from thistime from the deportees.
I hope so at least. Grandma describes it in the
(11:43):
podcast as a dirty place, dark in this industrial town.
How has Dorston changed over theyears, and how different is that
description of it now? Well, it has changed quite a
bit. When the coal mines closed down
25 years ago, the city started to change its countenance.
(12:03):
It's fairly green now. There's there are marked bikes
tours in the vicinity and forests and riverbanks.
And there's even a little bit ofan of an Old Town, although much
of the old building stock was bombed and destroyed in the war.
So it's one of those many towns in Germany that tells about this
(12:24):
particular time of in history because new living space had
been built up after the war. And it's not the most beautiful
houses. Yeah.
So it still carries from that time.
But Dustin is a particularly proud of its commitment to the
culture of remembrance with thismuseum I mentioned.
(12:44):
And yeah, it's, it's facing up to its, to its own history and
learning from it. They have this project which
which is called Inan Fuditsukun remembering for the future.
And they have little things going on and they put Strobosch
Diner in the ground. And so it's, it's a very strong
cultural life, city life, livelyneighborhoods.
(13:07):
And they make a lot of music. And I really like it because
it's it's a very lively place. We mentioned Doctor Jilly Carr
when she went back to Dorston, even though clearly it's changed
dramatically, she did find it and really emotional experience.
And I think it, you know, she's spoken to people who've been
(13:28):
deported from Jersey, from Guernsey, from the Channel
Islands for years and years and years.
So I guess for her, it was a culmination of all those stories
and finally, she was, you know, at this place where these
stories originated from. But actually, what is there now
where the camp used to be? You know, there's no sign of it
really, is there? It's you said you may have been
(13:49):
even walking your dogs around there.
What does it look like where thecamp used to be now?
Yeah, there's not even a sign upright now.
I hope in the future when the mayor listens to your podcast
and to my radio feature, maybe that's going to change because a
sign and a few facts about the history would be very nice.
But right now it's a thick forest, lush and green.
(14:12):
It's huge Birch, Birch trees. There are many footpaths along
the Lipper River and the canal today for hikers, but this
particular area is closed up there.
I think there's even a fence around it.
And it's it's right now it's an archery club in the middle of
the forest. So men and women shoot errors
(14:32):
arrows for fun between the trees.
And they put big objects like a plastic cow or something in the
middle of the forest and try to aim at it.
And when I visit the visited theplace, somebody interrupted
their archery training for me and choked me around.
(14:52):
There's, there's not, no rooms left.
So there's no, no rest of barracks or anything, but a lot
of foundations of the barracks. And there's even a thing where a
lorry can back up to and things were unloaded, I don't know,
maybe food or coal or whatever. And that's still in the forest.
(15:15):
So I heard Professor Julika would love to come back and dig
around and do her archaeologistswork.
So that would be very interesting.
There is still bunkers in the ground that you can see.
So maybe cold bunkers and potatobunkers where where these things
were stored. So this would be quite a bit to
(15:36):
unravel and explore I think. Is there anything which would be
instantly recognisable for Grandma if she was going to go
back? There's anything which remains
unchanged. I don't really think that she
would recognise anything. I've seen pictures that were
from the construction of the camp a few years before your
(15:58):
grandma came to Dorston and there's nothing that's really
would remind her of it today. So it's it's all gone, which I
really, I think it's really nicethat it's not still there
because it's really ugly, awful architecture.
And you can with one look at it,you can see it's not a very nice
(16:19):
place because it's with fences and barbed wire and everything.
It's just what was a horrible vision.
And I'm very glad that everything is gone.
But I think from a professional archaeologist point of view, it
will be very interesting to dig out objects.
But right now it's it's a recreational space and your
(16:42):
grandma would probably just enjoy a nice stroll in the in
the forest. Even though it's changed so
much, then for you, going there with the knowledge that you have
now, has it changed what it looks like to you, your your
view of it? Yes, a little bit.
(17:02):
It wasn't for me. It wasn't a very nice
experience. I think what what this very nice
guy from the archery club told us.
He loves the place, it's a very nice place, but he still feels
something. And I went there with all this
knowledge, what has happened there.
And yeah, it's kind of, it's pressing you down.
(17:23):
It's not a very, very nice experience.
And you've mentioned that you'vespoken to the mayor of Dorston
for this special report that you're doing.
And you, you told me that reconciliation is really
important to him. Why does he want to reconcile
(17:47):
with the past? Mayor Tobias Stockhoff was
amazed by the friendliness and the lively commemoration culture
in in Jersey. He visited Jersey for Liberation
Day in 2023 on invitation of thebailiff.
And in my radio piece he says for him the invitation was a
(18:08):
very strong signal. Another city could have been
invited, that's what he said. But they invited the city, where
people from the Channel Islands have also experienced suffering.
To face up to 1's own history and conversely, to give those
who have suffered a chance has made a great, great impact on
him. So this reaching out to him from
(18:31):
the Channel Islands was very moving for him.
And he's keen on building a friendship between nations.
He says there are certain days during the year, for example,
the liberation of Auschwitz or aparticularly heavy bombing of
Dorsten. On those days he really has
(18:52):
ceremonies and he would never beon holidays on these dates
because it's so important to himto remember these things.
And so they because of him, but because of a very long
tradition, they have a a strong commemoration culture
endorsement. Meeting Julie Carr of Flying to
(19:12):
Jersey for Liberation Day is very important and a very
important instruments from promoting democracy and human
dignity. That's what he said in a press
article, and it emphasises the need to face up to history and
learn from it for the future. And tell me a little bit more
about the special report then what features in it like and how
(19:35):
does the story unfold for you? I'm in the tradition of
storytelling, so I follow all the questions that came into my
head when I started researching.So I start in Dorston and there
are not many answers in Dorston right now.
And so I had to go to the Channel Islands and find answers
there and talk to deportees, ex deportees who came later came
(20:01):
back to to Jersey. I wasn't able to go to Guernsey
because there was no ship service right now.
And that led me back to Dorston.So it's came all the way around.
And what I want to bring to my listeners is to realise the
endless suffering that war brings to people and.
(20:23):
The experiences and the suffering burn themselves into
the soul and never go away. It also affects the next
generation, the children and thegrandchildren.
And there must be other ways fornations to deal with each other.
And the last word that affected us directly was very, very long
time ago. But it's important to never stop
talking about it, I think. Otherwise this option will lose
(20:47):
its horror. And that would be fatal, I
think. So through a story that really
happened to people who can stilltalk about it today is very,
very important, I think. And it's great listening to to
all these experiences and build a connection.
That's what I'm very, very much like, to come to a place like
(21:09):
Jersey and have a connection to people because everybody's so
friendly. Although I'm German and I don't
experience this a lot in other countries, there's sometimes, I
wouldn't say hatred, but I was called a fascist once just out
of the blue. And yeah, that would, I think,
never happen in in in the Channel Islands because people
(21:31):
rather like to talk and build a connection and not keep their
hatred. Well, it sounds like a very
powerful report that you're putting together, and I'm really
glad that we made this connection.
Yana, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Olly.
Dana's report is in German, but I'll drop a link to it in the
(21:52):
show notes if you're interested.Thanks to your support, this
podcast has made it into the Apple Podcast charts as one of
the top history podcasts in the UK.
If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show to boost
us further up the charts and getthis message out there.
In the next bonus episode, I meet Keith Pengele and Nicola
Hiray, the guys behind the Islands at War podcast, which is
(22:13):
all about the occupation of the Channel Islands.
I'm Molly GUI, thanks for listening.
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