June 13, 2025 • 29 mins
**This is a bonus episode. If you've not tuned in before, I recommend you start at Episode 1**
⚡ Maisie Le Page was just a young girl when the Germans arrived on her small home island of Sark. Little did she know that her father, the island’s baker, would also come to be part of, and sent to prison for his involvement in a covert news operation.
💡 In this special bonus episode of the podcast Maisie explores her earliest memories of the occupation in Sark, the fear she felt when her toy panda bear was pierced by a bayonet, and some of the more lighthearted moments. She also shares some of the mementos she’s kept as a reminder of what happened.
🔎 I met Maisie while producing The Dementia Perspective for the Guernsey Alzheimer’s Association. It’s well worth a listen - click here to listen.
📍 Your host is Ollie Guillou. This is a Channel Islands Podcasts production.
✉️ Share your messages and memories; email hello@ogpodcasts.co.uk
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
When German forces touched down on the island of Sark, just 470
citizens lived on the tiny island.
But in this small, quiet community, the rebellious spirit
we've spoken about a lot on thispodcast was still very much
alive. Welcome back to a bonus episode
of the Guernsey Deportees. So do you think it's possible if
(00:22):
your mother hadn't made that appeal, he'd be.
He would have gone to Bibarak aswell.
Yes, I'm pretty sure of it. But he wouldn't have gone to
Bibarak. It would.
He would have gone to a different sort of camp, I think.
That's Maisie Le Page Nae Lanyontalking about her father, who
was the island Baker on SARC for42 years and during the war was
part of a covert news operation in the islands.
(00:45):
We'll hear more about that shortly.
I've met many amazing people as a result of creating this
podcast, and Maisie is no exception.
I actually met her while producing another podcast, The
Dementia Perspective, for the Guernsey Alzheimer's
Association, and was blown away by her vivid memories of life in
(01:06):
occupied SAG. I caught up with her just before
Guernsey's 80th liberation celebrations, which were
especially poignant for her because her toy panda bear was
on display as part of those celebrations.
Because he is no ordinary bear. In fact, he has suffered his own
war wounds. And my mother wanted to mend it.
(01:28):
And of course, you know, the children are like that.
If you've got a scar, you like to keep your trophy, don't you?
So I wanted him to keep his trophy.
And it's still there today. I began by asking Maisie what
are her earliest memories of theoccupation in SAG.
Well, my earliest memory is justa few days before the Germans
(01:50):
arrived, everybody rushing around saying, oh, the Germans
are coming, the Germans are coming.
But as a child, you don't know. You don't know what a German is
or who a German is. And I just imagined it was some
sort of animal, big animals coming over.
And as a child, you just accept things and you just followed
what was going on. So at that point you don't
(02:11):
remember being frightened. It was just a bit confusing.
It was confusing rather than frightening.
It must have been frightening for the adults, but not the
children. So what were those first years
like then for you? Do you remember how it was to
start living under German rule? Well, it was just that things
(02:32):
changed and the Germans sort of made the all their rules and of
course things like they decided to bring a car over to, to SARC
and a motorbike and side car. And of course we hadn't seen
that as children. So that was quite a novelty for
us. And they took over after a
little while. They took over our school, which
was where the visitor centre is now and they took that over for
(02:54):
their headquarters. So we had to move school to a
little building behind the Methodist Chapel, which was
quite cold in the winter. We had really cold winters and
it was very cold, but then we just had to get on and and
follow the restrictions and follow what the adults did.
Did you get a sense that you were very restricted during that
(03:14):
time or or did life change much?It changed because we we did get
restricted once the beaches wereclosed and mined and the cliffs
were closed. And that was restricting because
we could only go to 1 beach, which was Grungreve on the
Guernsey side of Le Cope and that was the only place we could
go. But we played all day on the
(03:35):
beach and they were role mines suspended on the cliffs that
could come down at any minute. And I remember one day with my
little brother, we stood at the top of the coupe there watching
the Germans putting mines underneath the road.
And it was a whole big pile justwhere we were standing, a whole
big pile of mines ready to go under, under the coupe.
It's a strange thing to think. I mean you would have been so 3
(03:56):
when the occupation began, so maybe once they started laying
mines you were a little bit older.
About 5 I suppose. About 5.
So it's, it must have been a it's a strange thing to think
someone so young would see something like that because I've
got a 5 year old and you try to shield them from anything, but
when war breaks out it's just not possible.
Well, actually I, I didn't really know what, what the mines
(04:18):
were. We just stood there watching
like you'd watch a Workman now putting pipes in the road.
And my little brother said, whatare you doing?
And we just stood there watchingthem and we didn't have any fear
because we didn't know the danger.
Do you know as the wall rolled on, you got a bit older, did you
just did you start to become a bit more aware of what was
happening? Yes, I, I became more aware when
(04:41):
they came to search our house and my father was taken away to
prison. He was beaten up and they
searched the house and they put the bayonet through everything
to see if there was a radio anywhere in the house.
And they put the bayonet througha toy basket which my panda was
in. He got he got the bayonet
(05:02):
through him. And this was your favorite
panda? I would imagine this is the one
that you probably used to sleep with.
I guess the fear there is that they could have put the bayonet
through somewhere someone was hiding and that that's, you
know, you could imagine in that situation you thought that that
instead of the panda, it could have been me or somebody else.
Well, that was the part that frightened me most when they I
(05:25):
saw them take my father away andhe had his hands tied behind his
back and he looked at us standing on the doorstep.
And I suppose his thoughts were would he ever see us again?
And my thought was, were they taking him?
And, and I was frightened then. And the other things that
frightened me was the idea of the commandos when the commandos
(05:46):
came. Because I again, I didn't know
what a commando was. And my mother was out of the
line. She had to do her washing at
night and hang it on the line. And she said a commando had gone
past her with bushes in its hair.
So I again thought that was somesort of animal.
And I was a bit afraid because Iknew our house was the first one
(06:08):
from the hogs back. And if the commanders came, that
would be our house they would come to.
And that's frightened me. And So what was it that brought
the Germans to your house? And to beat up your father and
to arrest him? What did he do?
Well, when the radios were confiscated, there was no news
at all coming in and a group of journalists from Guernsey
(06:31):
decided that we should have a, a, a newsletter to know what's
going on. So secretly and with great
danger, they produced this Guernsey underground news sheet.
And my father was the SARC representative.
And as time went on, one man wasarrested.
He thought he'd get less of a sentence, so he divulged the
(06:51):
names of all the people connected and the German police
came over and questioned my father and searched the house
and beat him up and took him offto prison and we didn't know
where he was for a month. My mother thought he'd been
deported. We didn't know.
We found out after a month threwa gardener from the prison,
(07:14):
their cell, the the window was just on ground level so they
could call to him when they, he was around in the garden.
And they, he, you know, he got amessage through to my mother and
then he was sentenced to six months, which he would have been
sent to camp. But my mother appealed to the
commandant and he got it becausehe was the Baker and we needed
(07:36):
the Baker. So he was cut down to five
months, which he served here hard labour on very little to
eat. And then when he came back he
was as thin as a rake. He was so, so very thin and that
was frightening to see him come back like that.
So it was prison in Guernsey andthen he was sent back to Sark
when the time was right. Yes, that's right.
(07:57):
Yes. Do you remember that moment when
he came back and you saw how thin he was?
Yes. I kept saying to my mother, what
does Daddy look like? What does he look like?
And then when he came back, he was so thin he reminded me of a
nail, a nail with a big Flathead.
He had a flat cap on. And it just is.
My lasting memory is of a thin nail, and that's his his shape.
(08:22):
And for you, that must have beena moment of realisation about
again, you're getting a bit older at this point of what
really was going on. Yes, and the first thing was
when he was taken away and then when he came back I realised how
nasty it had been for him and you know, the fear set in
really. Do you know what sort of
(08:43):
information they were trading with the Guernsey Underground
News Service between Guernsey and Sark with your father
involved? Do you know what kind of what?
What were they were telling eachother?
Well, I think they were just telling, telling them the state
of the war in Europe and the things that were going on in
England and speeches that had been made by Churchill and
(09:04):
people like that. And the thing was that my father
collected a lot of old books andput them on a shelf in the
storeroom. He put a number on the back of
each book and his news sheet washidden in a book.
And so when somebody came in to read it, they were told which
number. And the Germans, if they passed,
were thinking they were looking for a library book and they'd
(09:25):
just put the book back. And and so it went on for quite
a little while. Do you know if he continued his
work after he returned from prison or did he stop working
with the underground news service at that point?
Well, it didn't carry on becausethe news sheet was disbanded and
all the people in Guernsey, the brave men like Frank Fuller who
(09:46):
started off, they were deported and they were all sent to camp
and some of them never came back.
So do you think it's possible ifyour mother hadn't made that
appeal, he'd be in? He would have gone to Bibarak as
well. Yes, I'm pretty sure of it.
But yes, he would have gone. He'd have had six months and
he'd have gone. He wouldn't have gone to
Bibarak. It would he would have gone to a
(10:06):
different sort of camp, I think.So actually having that skill
really saved. Yes, yes.
And, and because of his skill and his craftiness, because he
always insisted on having two weeks reserve a flower because
the boats didn't come and they could be away for two weeks.
So he always kept a little bit. And he put he had a false back
(10:28):
on his staw, which he kept extraflour in case it ran out.
And Sark was the only place in the Channel Islands had never
ran out of bread during the war.That's amazing.
And so as a result, you, you know, my grandma regales the
story of coming back to Guernseyand seeing, you know, expecting
princesses and Queens and kings and seeing people who were just
(10:49):
raked thin. Was it the same in Sartre or did
you did you have a bit more foodthere?
We did have more food because everybody had access to a piece
of land. They could grow something to
eat. And and my mother often after
the war said we had a better diet in the war because all we
had were vegetables. We didn't have sugar, we didn't
have chocolate. You ate.
(11:10):
We had all the good stuff to eat, so we were really lucky
from that. I must say I don't ever remember
being hungry because if we were hungry we'd go out in the field
and pull up one of the cattle carrots.
It must have been a time that taught you a lot that kind of,
you know, these are your formative years, Those first
seven years of a person's life really make them who they become
(11:31):
and you learn to be resilient. You learnt, like you said, to
maybe go and find food when there wasn't any available at
the time. Do you think that resilience
that you learnt during those years has carried you through
into your adulthood? Yes, yes, I'm very practical and
I find ways round and make do and mend and use things.
(11:52):
But the only thing I can think of for me is the fact that we we
saw no new people for five years.
We had no day trippers coming inand that made an impression on
me. And it takes me a long, long
time to accept people and get toknow them because I they knew
and I'm suspicious of, of them. And that's that's the thing
(12:13):
that's lasted longest for me. So how many people were on SARC
at the time? About 500, but then some were
deported so there were fewer than that.
Tell me a little bit about the arrival of the commandos.
And you've briefly mentioned when they first arrived.
So what what happened later on, you know, do do you remember
much of that experience? Well, after they'd a couple of
(12:37):
times they'd come and of course unfortunately they did kill one
of the German soldiers. And of course with other things
going on in the world as well, Hitler got in a temper and
decided to penalise the Channel Islands.
But when the commander first cane, that changed a lot of the
atmosphere in in the place because we were very cautious of
(12:59):
what the Germans might do next. So as the atmosphere began to
change for you, do you feel likeyour parents did a good job of
shielding you from the worst of it?
Yes, yes, my mother was absolutely incredible.
She she must have gone through agony's wondering where my dad
was and but she she never passedthat on to us.
(13:20):
We, she got on and looked after us.
We were eight of us and she had to cook, wash fine clothes for
us. And I really think that the
heroes of the war were the womenthey found.
They, they, they accommodated things.
They made patterns out of blankets for coats and then
slippers. Oh, they didn't make them, but
they were slippers made of rabbit fur.
(13:43):
Yeah, yeah. Grandma says that she also felt
the same, that her parents, she went back to Bibarak eventually
to honour them, honour what theyhad done for her, to shield her
from the worst of it. Do you think you read between
the lines? In some situations that you
could, you could see what was going on even if your parents
weren't telling you. Yes, I knew there was something
(14:05):
wrong. And of course the commandos
frightened me. And there was one night because
we had double summertime during the war and the light nights
were light till about 10:00. And on one particular time my
mum and dad went out to play cards with some friends and they
were going to be back before curfew.
And my two sisters decided they'd go out and enjoy
(14:27):
themselves. And so my little brother and I
were left on our own. And then I suddenly thought the
commandos might come. So I got my brother out of bed.
We put our rain, it was raining.We put our raincoats and
Wellington boots on and we went and waited outside the house
where my mum and dad were playing cards.
And they were a bit surprised tosee us there.
(14:49):
But I don't remember what happened to my two sisters.
I I don't know. And so there are some stories
that you didn't necessarily evenshare with your parents, right?
Yes, there was one time after the commandos had landed and we
was on Dekar Bay because they hadn't been mined yet.
And we were coming up late in the afternoon to go home for
(15:10):
tea. And a whole group of us and a
German plane flew over and the next thing we knew there was
gunfire shooting at us. So we quickly went underneath a
Big Apple tree nearby and waitedtill it had gone.
Then we went home for tea and wewe never really mentioned.
I don't remember it being ever mentioned.
(15:31):
And that was just one of those things that happened and it
almost didn't faze you in a way.No.
Well, we'd heard the planes going over because of course we
saw the planes going from England and the sky was black
with them and they'd go across and then you'd hear the bombs
going off. So we were quite used to fly
planes flying over and this we just thought this was just
another one. So when you say there were eight
(15:53):
of you, that's eight siblings. No, there were my mother and
father, my two sisters and my brother and myself, and they
took in a cousin from Guernsey during the war.
So we looked after her and then occasionally my grandfather
would have permission to come over and help in the bakehouse,
(16:15):
so there'd be eight of us there.Do you remember whether having
all of those people around you was a comfort in some way?
Well, the only thing when my grandpa came over, he always
brought things that he'd managedto get and it was through him
and other people in Guernsey that they collected toys.
We had nothing and they collected toys for us.
(16:35):
And that's how I got my panda. That was my Christmas present
and when I talked to children these days and I said that was
the only thing I had for Christmas and it wasn't new.
It was pretty threadbare when I had it and they just can't
believe that's all I had. After it got the bayonet through
it, did you keep hold of it and love it as the same Teddy as it
(16:57):
always was? Yes, I probably loved it more
and my mother wanted to mend it.And of course, you know, the
children are like they if you'vegot a, a scar, you like to keep
your trophy, don't you? So I wanted him to keep his
trophy and it it's still there today.
Well I have a teddy bear that's lasted since I was young and
I've passed it down to my daughters and his head was
ripped off at one stage by a dot.
My friend's dog when I was younger and I remember my
(17:19):
friend's mum sewed the head backon and to this day he's got a
very out of place coloured thread and.
I think that must get that. Yeah, that must have happened to
my panda too, because he's got threads around his neck as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you kind of, you look at that and it reminds you, it's
actually, I mean, it's a frightening experience, of
course, at the time, but it it'sa reminder as well of what
(17:42):
happened and you don't want it to go.
Well, my mother kept the panda all the years I was at school
and and at college. And of course I didn't think of
him then. And it was only many years later
she decided to give it to me. And then I I treasured him from
there. And it's amazing.
You say he was threadbare when you got him and then he went
through this experience and now he's still, he's still around.
(18:04):
You know he's in the museum at the moment.
Yes, he's in the museum and for the liberation display, and
yeah, he's there. And how's what's his condition
like at the moment? Pretty ropy, he's pretty thin
and of course he wasn't cuddly like toys.
Today he was filled with woodwall which was hard and and
(18:26):
crisp. So he wasn't a cuddly, cuddly
panda bear, but he was to me. And will you get him back after
the 80th? Oh yes, Oh yes, Oh yes, you'll
come back, be with the family and perhaps eventually he could
go into any permanent exhibition.
And this is actually a really a point of real interest to me
because when I was speaking to Doctor Jilly Carr, whose book is
(18:50):
all about the lives of the objects, that the, well, the
stories that the objects tell ofthe experience of those who were
interned in the many camps, including Biborac, because there
were so many items that were created there.
And, you know, she makes the point that objects aren't just
these static things. They have, they've lived lives,
(19:10):
they tell stories. And if you chart their journey
from then until now, you can understand so much of what
actually happened during the warand each individual item, you
know, so it, it's a, a kind of apiece of the puzzle.
And I think your panda bear is one of those.
Pieces, definitely. And of course, he reminds me too
of, of my father being taken away because that's when it
(19:31):
started. He, you know, had the bayonet,
threw him in. They was searching for my for a
radio. So other than your panda, have
you got any other sort of lasting mementos from the the
from the occupation? Yes, I've got a little tin that
says Horlicks tablets. 9 D is the price.
There was one day when we were on Crongrave Bay after all the
(19:54):
beaches had been mined and this black box was floating in late
in the afternoon and eventually it came in and the older
children opened it and it was full of Horlicks tablets, little
tins of Horlicks tablets. And we reckon that it was a an
airman's rations because Horlicks tablets were very
nutritious and we think it was an airman's rations.
(20:18):
And they were for sale in the shops after the war.
You could still buy them little tablets of Horlicks.
And then you've got something else here on the table in front
of us that you always keep with you for Liberation Day.
Yeah, this is a little hanky my When my father came back from
prison, he managed to get us each a present and he got me a
little box of hankies, 1 pink, 1green, 1 yellow and 1 blue.
(20:42):
And because blue wasn't my favorite colour, that's the only
one I've got left. And to me it's very special.
And that's with me every liberation day to to remember
everything. Do you have any other lasting
memories from time during the occupation?
One lovely lasting memory for meis when the German soldiers
arrived on a, on a new, some would leave and then others
(21:04):
would come in, they would March and as they marched they sang.
And it was absolutely wonderful to hear their voices, especially
if it was in the evening, on theevening air and you could hear
them marching it. That was very moving.
And I I've I've never forgotten that.
Did you get a sense that they were just there doing a duty and
(21:26):
they weren't, you know, there was no like, daily animosity
towards you. No, as children we weren't
afraid of the ordinary soldiers.I'm thinking back, of course
they all had families away, Theyhad children or parents and they
didn't know what was happening to them.
They were very kind to us children because there was one
year where they made wooden toysfor us at Christmas time.
I think more towards the end of the war and they, they're never
(21:49):
one kind. They used to speak to us and
smile if they passed and we weren't afraid of them.
It was only when the more seniorones came over with their
leather boots and they're gone in a holster and that was
frightening. And I still if I get the smell
of leather, I can see that gun in the holster.
(22:11):
Wow, how evocative smell can be.Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And do you remember what
happened in SARC when Liberationhappened?
Well, everybody was excited and my father tried to look for a
Union Jack and he couldn't find one, but he could only find the
French flag, so that went up on the flagpole.
(22:32):
It was just a general buzz and excitement and I didn't really
know what it was all about because I hadn't known it
before. I hadn't known what it was like
before. And so at that point, it was,
was it happening at the exact exact same time as Guernsey or
did your Liberation Day? We were a day a day after
Guernsey on the 10th. OK, so you just had to wait that
(22:53):
little bit longer, but. Of course they'd heard what was
happening through radios and stuff.
They'd managed, they'd some managed to keep radios of
course, and they heard what was happening.
So they knew that the British were coming.
And then there's my father went down to the harbour to see that
British troops come in and there's a picture of him
standing to welcome them in and that was special for him.
(23:16):
Amazing whatever happened to your father then after the war
because I imagine his experienceand being imprisoned and what he
went through, probably, it probably took its toll on him.
It did take his toll on him because he didn't have very good
health and he hadn't eaten very much and his joints suffered.
He suffered badly with his legs because he'd had to do hard
(23:39):
labour, they had to do building.So he suffered with his joints
and then, you know, throughout his life.
Do you think it had a lasting impact?
Yes, it did have a lasting impact.
And in his latter years, he he wrote his memoirs in a book.
And I think that somebody didn'tlike everything he'd written.
(24:00):
And the book was stolen from hisfrom when he, after he died and
my brother inherited the house, it was stolen and it was never
returned. And I think that what he said in
there was pretty revealing, but we didn't know that.
He never really spoke much to usabout it.
The only one thing he did tell me was that he was in prison
(24:23):
with a a younger man who'd had court for having a radio.
He was about 18. And his name was Ken Le Flock.
And I remember them saying that there was this guard, prison
guard that would come and bring them whatever food they had.
And he was tall and, and thin. So they called him Lanky.
And there was one time that he'dcome and he'd, he was on his way
(24:46):
back from taking their food and they called out, hey, Lanky, you
haven't locked the door. He hadn't locked them in their
cell. Amazing.
Yeah. And do you What about your
mother? Did she talk much about it?
No, not really. She was a Breton, very hard,
(25:07):
determined Breton lady and she just got on with everything.
She took everything in her pace and she she never complained.
I could see the worry on her face, but she never said
anything. And what were their names?
My mother's name was Mary and myfather's name was Hubert Lanyon.
(25:28):
And did they live a long fulfilled life in Sark or did
they move to Guernsey or? They didn't live.
They lived the rest of their lives in, in Sark.
They didn't live till a ripe oldage.
They lived till about nearly 8079 I think, both of them.
So that wasn't, you know, with everything they put up with, I
suppose it took a toll on their life.
(25:50):
Do you remember what the processwas like for Sark to rebuild
after the war? I guess there was a big effort
to de mine the beaches. Do you remember how long it took
for Sark to become normal again?I don't really remember, but I
do remember the Germans had to come back and take the mines up
because and they did the coupe and I think one got killed
(26:13):
taking mines up from the coupe. And of course now they put, they
put better railings than it had before.
But it did take a little while. But the thing I remember most
was coming over to Guernsey for the day, a day trip in in a
little fishing boat. And my mother would go off and
do some shopping and she'd leaveus, my brother and I, in
Woolworths with a bit of pocket money.
(26:33):
And it was like, it was like a cave, a magician's cave, with
all the beautiful things, all the colours as colours of things
that struck me. And we'd go around, my brother
and I, in deciding what to get, and we decided we'd get a lead
for our dog. And my brother said, this is
good. Look, it's got a really strong
chain and it's got a good handleto hold on to.
(26:55):
So yeah, we bought that. So when we got home, one of my
sisters broke the balloon because she said that's not a
dog lead, it's a toilet chain. But the dog still had it as a
lead. I was going to say, of all the
toys you could have possibly got, you got a dog lead and
actually you ended up getting a toilet chain.
(27:16):
Amazing. Yeah, we had good times.
It gradually came back. Things came back slowly.
I think we weren't flooded straight away.
It was just a general filtering through.
Amazing. Am I right in saying that you
shared your story with some schools on the island?
Yes. For the last few years I've been
going up to the museum and talking to Guernsey children,
(27:40):
but this year I thought I shouldreally speak to the South
children. So I through the through the the
museum, the arrangement and theythought that was a really good
idea. They'd never done it before.
So I went over and spoke to the children and they were just
amazed. They couldn't believe it.
And of course some of the children there are newcomers to
(28:00):
the island. They didn't even realise they'd
been a war and some of them wereconnected with people I knew, so
they knew some of the backgroundas well.
But that was amazing and they were such lovely, lovely
children and they were so interested.
I'm glad I went and I wish I'd gone before.
(28:21):
Well, Maisie, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to
you. Thank you very much for sharing
your story with me. Thank you very much, Ollie.
Thank you. What a delight it was speaking
to Maisie and spending time withher at her house.
If you know of anyone else I should speak to for this series,
please let me know. Send a message to
ollie@ogpodcast.co.uk. Thanks to your support, this
(28:43):
podcast has made it into the Apple Podcast charts as one of
the top history podcasts in the Uki want to see it go further up
the charts though, so please, ifyou haven't already, subscribe
to the show, boost us further upand get this message out there.
When German forces touched down on the island of Sark, just 470
citizens lived on the tiny island.
But in this small, quiet community, the rebellious spirit
we've spoken about a lot on thispodcast was still very much
alive. Welcome back to a bonus episode
of the Guernsey Deportees. So do you think it's possible if
(00:22):
your mother hadn't made that appeal, he'd be.
He would have gone to Bibarak aswell.
Yes, I'm pretty sure of it. But he wouldn't have gone to
Bibarak. It would.
He would have gone to a different sort of camp, I think.
That's Maisie Le Page Nae Lanyontalking about her father, who
was the island Baker on SARC for42 years and during the war was
part of a covert news operation in the islands.
(00:45):
We'll hear more about that shortly.
I've met many amazing people as a result of creating this
podcast, and Maisie is no exception.
I actually met her while producing another podcast, The
Dementia Perspective, for the Guernsey Alzheimer's
Association, and was blown away by her vivid memories of life in
(01:06):
occupied SAG. I caught up with her just before
Guernsey's 80th liberation celebrations, which were
especially poignant for her because her toy panda bear was
on display as part of those celebrations.
Because he is no ordinary bear. In fact, he has suffered his own
war wounds. And my mother wanted to mend it.
(01:28):
And of course, you know, the children are like that.
If you've got a scar, you like to keep your trophy, don't you?
So I wanted him to keep his trophy.
And it's still there today. I began by asking Maisie what
are her earliest memories of theoccupation in SAG.
Well, my earliest memory is justa few days before the Germans
(01:50):
arrived, everybody rushing around saying, oh, the Germans
are coming, the Germans are coming.
But as a child, you don't know. You don't know what a German is
or who a German is. And I just imagined it was some
sort of animal, big animals coming over.
And as a child, you just accept things and you just followed
what was going on. So at that point you don't
(02:11):
remember being frightened. It was just a bit confusing.
It was confusing rather than frightening.
It must have been frightening for the adults, but not the
children. So what were those first years
like then for you? Do you remember how it was to
start living under German rule? Well, it was just that things
(02:32):
changed and the Germans sort of made the all their rules and of
course things like they decided to bring a car over to, to SARC
and a motorbike and side car. And of course we hadn't seen
that as children. So that was quite a novelty for
us. And they took over after a
little while. They took over our school, which
was where the visitor centre is now and they took that over for
(02:54):
their headquarters. So we had to move school to a
little building behind the Methodist Chapel, which was
quite cold in the winter. We had really cold winters and
it was very cold, but then we just had to get on and and
follow the restrictions and follow what the adults did.
Did you get a sense that you were very restricted during that
(03:14):
time or or did life change much?It changed because we we did get
restricted once the beaches wereclosed and mined and the cliffs
were closed. And that was restricting because
we could only go to 1 beach, which was Grungreve on the
Guernsey side of Le Cope and that was the only place we could
go. But we played all day on the
(03:35):
beach and they were role mines suspended on the cliffs that
could come down at any minute. And I remember one day with my
little brother, we stood at the top of the coupe there watching
the Germans putting mines underneath the road.
And it was a whole big pile justwhere we were standing, a whole
big pile of mines ready to go under, under the coupe.
It's a strange thing to think. I mean you would have been so 3
(03:56):
when the occupation began, so maybe once they started laying
mines you were a little bit older.
About 5 I suppose. About 5.
So it's, it must have been a it's a strange thing to think
someone so young would see something like that because I've
got a 5 year old and you try to shield them from anything, but
when war breaks out it's just not possible.
Well, actually I, I didn't really know what, what the mines
(04:18):
were. We just stood there watching
like you'd watch a Workman now putting pipes in the road.
And my little brother said, whatare you doing?
And we just stood there watchingthem and we didn't have any fear
because we didn't know the danger.
Do you know as the wall rolled on, you got a bit older, did you
just did you start to become a bit more aware of what was
happening? Yes, I, I became more aware when
(04:41):
they came to search our house and my father was taken away to
prison. He was beaten up and they
searched the house and they put the bayonet through everything
to see if there was a radio anywhere in the house.
And they put the bayonet througha toy basket which my panda was
in. He got he got the bayonet
(05:02):
through him. And this was your favorite
panda? I would imagine this is the one
that you probably used to sleep with.
I guess the fear there is that they could have put the bayonet
through somewhere someone was hiding and that that's, you
know, you could imagine in that situation you thought that that
instead of the panda, it could have been me or somebody else.
Well, that was the part that frightened me most when they I
(05:25):
saw them take my father away andhe had his hands tied behind his
back and he looked at us standing on the doorstep.
And I suppose his thoughts were would he ever see us again?
And my thought was, were they taking him?
And, and I was frightened then. And the other things that
frightened me was the idea of the commandos when the commandos
(05:46):
came. Because I again, I didn't know
what a commando was. And my mother was out of the
line. She had to do her washing at
night and hang it on the line. And she said a commando had gone
past her with bushes in its hair.
So I again thought that was somesort of animal.
And I was a bit afraid because Iknew our house was the first one
(06:08):
from the hogs back. And if the commanders came, that
would be our house they would come to.
And that's frightened me. And So what was it that brought
the Germans to your house? And to beat up your father and
to arrest him? What did he do?
Well, when the radios were confiscated, there was no news
at all coming in and a group of journalists from Guernsey
(06:31):
decided that we should have a, a, a newsletter to know what's
going on. So secretly and with great
danger, they produced this Guernsey underground news sheet.
And my father was the SARC representative.
And as time went on, one man wasarrested.
He thought he'd get less of a sentence, so he divulged the
(06:51):
names of all the people connected and the German police
came over and questioned my father and searched the house
and beat him up and took him offto prison and we didn't know
where he was for a month. My mother thought he'd been
deported. We didn't know.
We found out after a month threwa gardener from the prison,
(07:14):
their cell, the the window was just on ground level so they
could call to him when they, he was around in the garden.
And they, he, you know, he got amessage through to my mother and
then he was sentenced to six months, which he would have been
sent to camp. But my mother appealed to the
commandant and he got it becausehe was the Baker and we needed
(07:36):
the Baker. So he was cut down to five
months, which he served here hard labour on very little to
eat. And then when he came back he
was as thin as a rake. He was so, so very thin and that
was frightening to see him come back like that.
So it was prison in Guernsey andthen he was sent back to Sark
when the time was right. Yes, that's right.
(07:57):
Yes. Do you remember that moment when
he came back and you saw how thin he was?
Yes. I kept saying to my mother, what
does Daddy look like? What does he look like?
And then when he came back, he was so thin he reminded me of a
nail, a nail with a big Flathead.
He had a flat cap on. And it just is.
My lasting memory is of a thin nail, and that's his his shape.
(08:22):
And for you, that must have beena moment of realisation about
again, you're getting a bit older at this point of what
really was going on. Yes, and the first thing was
when he was taken away and then when he came back I realised how
nasty it had been for him and you know, the fear set in
really. Do you know what sort of
(08:43):
information they were trading with the Guernsey Underground
News Service between Guernsey and Sark with your father
involved? Do you know what kind of what?
What were they were telling eachother?
Well, I think they were just telling, telling them the state
of the war in Europe and the things that were going on in
England and speeches that had been made by Churchill and
(09:04):
people like that. And the thing was that my father
collected a lot of old books andput them on a shelf in the
storeroom. He put a number on the back of
each book and his news sheet washidden in a book.
And so when somebody came in to read it, they were told which
number. And the Germans, if they passed,
were thinking they were looking for a library book and they'd
(09:25):
just put the book back. And and so it went on for quite
a little while. Do you know if he continued his
work after he returned from prison or did he stop working
with the underground news service at that point?
Well, it didn't carry on becausethe news sheet was disbanded and
all the people in Guernsey, the brave men like Frank Fuller who
(09:46):
started off, they were deported and they were all sent to camp
and some of them never came back.
So do you think it's possible ifyour mother hadn't made that
appeal, he'd be in? He would have gone to Bibarak as
well. Yes, I'm pretty sure of it.
But yes, he would have gone. He'd have had six months and
he'd have gone. He wouldn't have gone to
Bibarak. It would he would have gone to a
(10:06):
different sort of camp, I think.So actually having that skill
really saved. Yes, yes.
And, and because of his skill and his craftiness, because he
always insisted on having two weeks reserve a flower because
the boats didn't come and they could be away for two weeks.
So he always kept a little bit. And he put he had a false back
(10:28):
on his staw, which he kept extraflour in case it ran out.
And Sark was the only place in the Channel Islands had never
ran out of bread during the war.That's amazing.
And so as a result, you, you know, my grandma regales the
story of coming back to Guernseyand seeing, you know, expecting
princesses and Queens and kings and seeing people who were just
(10:49):
raked thin. Was it the same in Sartre or did
you did you have a bit more foodthere?
We did have more food because everybody had access to a piece
of land. They could grow something to
eat. And and my mother often after
the war said we had a better diet in the war because all we
had were vegetables. We didn't have sugar, we didn't
have chocolate. You ate.
(11:10):
We had all the good stuff to eat, so we were really lucky
from that. I must say I don't ever remember
being hungry because if we were hungry we'd go out in the field
and pull up one of the cattle carrots.
It must have been a time that taught you a lot that kind of,
you know, these are your formative years, Those first
seven years of a person's life really make them who they become
(11:31):
and you learn to be resilient. You learnt, like you said, to
maybe go and find food when there wasn't any available at
the time. Do you think that resilience
that you learnt during those years has carried you through
into your adulthood? Yes, yes, I'm very practical and
I find ways round and make do and mend and use things.
(11:52):
But the only thing I can think of for me is the fact that we we
saw no new people for five years.
We had no day trippers coming inand that made an impression on
me. And it takes me a long, long
time to accept people and get toknow them because I they knew
and I'm suspicious of, of them. And that's that's the thing
(12:13):
that's lasted longest for me. So how many people were on SARC
at the time? About 500, but then some were
deported so there were fewer than that.
Tell me a little bit about the arrival of the commandos.
And you've briefly mentioned when they first arrived.
So what what happened later on, you know, do do you remember
much of that experience? Well, after they'd a couple of
(12:37):
times they'd come and of course unfortunately they did kill one
of the German soldiers. And of course with other things
going on in the world as well, Hitler got in a temper and
decided to penalise the Channel Islands.
But when the commander first cane, that changed a lot of the
atmosphere in in the place because we were very cautious of
(12:59):
what the Germans might do next. So as the atmosphere began to
change for you, do you feel likeyour parents did a good job of
shielding you from the worst of it?
Yes, yes, my mother was absolutely incredible.
She she must have gone through agony's wondering where my dad
was and but she she never passedthat on to us.
(13:20):
We, she got on and looked after us.
We were eight of us and she had to cook, wash fine clothes for
us. And I really think that the
heroes of the war were the womenthey found.
They, they, they accommodated things.
They made patterns out of blankets for coats and then
slippers. Oh, they didn't make them, but
they were slippers made of rabbit fur.
(13:43):
Yeah, yeah. Grandma says that she also felt
the same, that her parents, she went back to Bibarak eventually
to honour them, honour what theyhad done for her, to shield her
from the worst of it. Do you think you read between
the lines? In some situations that you
could, you could see what was going on even if your parents
weren't telling you. Yes, I knew there was something
(14:05):
wrong. And of course the commandos
frightened me. And there was one night because
we had double summertime during the war and the light nights
were light till about 10:00. And on one particular time my
mum and dad went out to play cards with some friends and they
were going to be back before curfew.
And my two sisters decided they'd go out and enjoy
(14:27):
themselves. And so my little brother and I
were left on our own. And then I suddenly thought the
commandos might come. So I got my brother out of bed.
We put our rain, it was raining.We put our raincoats and
Wellington boots on and we went and waited outside the house
where my mum and dad were playing cards.
And they were a bit surprised tosee us there.
(14:49):
But I don't remember what happened to my two sisters.
I I don't know. And so there are some stories
that you didn't necessarily evenshare with your parents, right?
Yes, there was one time after the commandos had landed and we
was on Dekar Bay because they hadn't been mined yet.
And we were coming up late in the afternoon to go home for
(15:10):
tea. And a whole group of us and a
German plane flew over and the next thing we knew there was
gunfire shooting at us. So we quickly went underneath a
Big Apple tree nearby and waitedtill it had gone.
Then we went home for tea and wewe never really mentioned.
I don't remember it being ever mentioned.
(15:31):
And that was just one of those things that happened and it
almost didn't faze you in a way.No.
Well, we'd heard the planes going over because of course we
saw the planes going from England and the sky was black
with them and they'd go across and then you'd hear the bombs
going off. So we were quite used to fly
planes flying over and this we just thought this was just
another one. So when you say there were eight
(15:53):
of you, that's eight siblings. No, there were my mother and
father, my two sisters and my brother and myself, and they
took in a cousin from Guernsey during the war.
So we looked after her and then occasionally my grandfather
would have permission to come over and help in the bakehouse,
(16:15):
so there'd be eight of us there.Do you remember whether having
all of those people around you was a comfort in some way?
Well, the only thing when my grandpa came over, he always
brought things that he'd managedto get and it was through him
and other people in Guernsey that they collected toys.
We had nothing and they collected toys for us.
(16:35):
And that's how I got my panda. That was my Christmas present
and when I talked to children these days and I said that was
the only thing I had for Christmas and it wasn't new.
It was pretty threadbare when I had it and they just can't
believe that's all I had. After it got the bayonet through
it, did you keep hold of it and love it as the same Teddy as it
(16:57):
always was? Yes, I probably loved it more
and my mother wanted to mend it.And of course, you know, the
children are like they if you'vegot a, a scar, you like to keep
your trophy, don't you? So I wanted him to keep his
trophy and it it's still there today.
Well I have a teddy bear that's lasted since I was young and
I've passed it down to my daughters and his head was
ripped off at one stage by a dot.
My friend's dog when I was younger and I remember my
(17:19):
friend's mum sewed the head backon and to this day he's got a
very out of place coloured thread and.
I think that must get that. Yeah, that must have happened to
my panda too, because he's got threads around his neck as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you kind of, you look at that and it reminds you, it's
actually, I mean, it's a frightening experience, of
course, at the time, but it it'sa reminder as well of what
(17:42):
happened and you don't want it to go.
Well, my mother kept the panda all the years I was at school
and and at college. And of course I didn't think of
him then. And it was only many years later
she decided to give it to me. And then I I treasured him from
there. And it's amazing.
You say he was threadbare when you got him and then he went
through this experience and now he's still, he's still around.
(18:04):
You know he's in the museum at the moment.
Yes, he's in the museum and for the liberation display, and
yeah, he's there. And how's what's his condition
like at the moment? Pretty ropy, he's pretty thin
and of course he wasn't cuddly like toys.
Today he was filled with woodwall which was hard and and
(18:26):
crisp. So he wasn't a cuddly, cuddly
panda bear, but he was to me. And will you get him back after
the 80th? Oh yes, Oh yes, Oh yes, you'll
come back, be with the family and perhaps eventually he could
go into any permanent exhibition.
And this is actually a really a point of real interest to me
because when I was speaking to Doctor Jilly Carr, whose book is
(18:50):
all about the lives of the objects, that the, well, the
stories that the objects tell ofthe experience of those who were
interned in the many camps, including Biborac, because there
were so many items that were created there.
And, you know, she makes the point that objects aren't just
these static things. They have, they've lived lives,
(19:10):
they tell stories. And if you chart their journey
from then until now, you can understand so much of what
actually happened during the warand each individual item, you
know, so it, it's a, a kind of apiece of the puzzle.
And I think your panda bear is one of those.
Pieces, definitely. And of course, he reminds me too
of, of my father being taken away because that's when it
(19:31):
started. He, you know, had the bayonet,
threw him in. They was searching for my for a
radio. So other than your panda, have
you got any other sort of lasting mementos from the the
from the occupation? Yes, I've got a little tin that
says Horlicks tablets. 9 D is the price.
There was one day when we were on Crongrave Bay after all the
(19:54):
beaches had been mined and this black box was floating in late
in the afternoon and eventually it came in and the older
children opened it and it was full of Horlicks tablets, little
tins of Horlicks tablets. And we reckon that it was a an
airman's rations because Horlicks tablets were very
nutritious and we think it was an airman's rations.
(20:18):
And they were for sale in the shops after the war.
You could still buy them little tablets of Horlicks.
And then you've got something else here on the table in front
of us that you always keep with you for Liberation Day.
Yeah, this is a little hanky my When my father came back from
prison, he managed to get us each a present and he got me a
little box of hankies, 1 pink, 1green, 1 yellow and 1 blue.
(20:42):
And because blue wasn't my favorite colour, that's the only
one I've got left. And to me it's very special.
And that's with me every liberation day to to remember
everything. Do you have any other lasting
memories from time during the occupation?
One lovely lasting memory for meis when the German soldiers
arrived on a, on a new, some would leave and then others
(21:04):
would come in, they would March and as they marched they sang.
And it was absolutely wonderful to hear their voices, especially
if it was in the evening, on theevening air and you could hear
them marching it. That was very moving.
And I I've I've never forgotten that.
Did you get a sense that they were just there doing a duty and
(21:26):
they weren't, you know, there was no like, daily animosity
towards you. No, as children we weren't
afraid of the ordinary soldiers.I'm thinking back, of course
they all had families away, Theyhad children or parents and they
didn't know what was happening to them.
They were very kind to us children because there was one
year where they made wooden toysfor us at Christmas time.
I think more towards the end of the war and they, they're never
(21:49):
one kind. They used to speak to us and
smile if they passed and we weren't afraid of them.
It was only when the more seniorones came over with their
leather boots and they're gone in a holster and that was
frightening. And I still if I get the smell
of leather, I can see that gun in the holster.
(22:11):
Wow, how evocative smell can be.Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And do you remember what
happened in SARC when Liberationhappened?
Well, everybody was excited and my father tried to look for a
Union Jack and he couldn't find one, but he could only find the
French flag, so that went up on the flagpole.
(22:32):
It was just a general buzz and excitement and I didn't really
know what it was all about because I hadn't known it
before. I hadn't known what it was like
before. And so at that point, it was,
was it happening at the exact exact same time as Guernsey or
did your Liberation Day? We were a day a day after
Guernsey on the 10th. OK, so you just had to wait that
(22:53):
little bit longer, but. Of course they'd heard what was
happening through radios and stuff.
They'd managed, they'd some managed to keep radios of
course, and they heard what was happening.
So they knew that the British were coming.
And then there's my father went down to the harbour to see that
British troops come in and there's a picture of him
standing to welcome them in and that was special for him.
(23:16):
Amazing whatever happened to your father then after the war
because I imagine his experienceand being imprisoned and what he
went through, probably, it probably took its toll on him.
It did take his toll on him because he didn't have very good
health and he hadn't eaten very much and his joints suffered.
He suffered badly with his legs because he'd had to do hard
(23:39):
labour, they had to do building.So he suffered with his joints
and then, you know, throughout his life.
Do you think it had a lasting impact?
Yes, it did have a lasting impact.
And in his latter years, he he wrote his memoirs in a book.
And I think that somebody didn'tlike everything he'd written.
(24:00):
And the book was stolen from hisfrom when he, after he died and
my brother inherited the house, it was stolen and it was never
returned. And I think that what he said in
there was pretty revealing, but we didn't know that.
He never really spoke much to usabout it.
The only one thing he did tell me was that he was in prison
(24:23):
with a a younger man who'd had court for having a radio.
He was about 18. And his name was Ken Le Flock.
And I remember them saying that there was this guard, prison
guard that would come and bring them whatever food they had.
And he was tall and, and thin. So they called him Lanky.
And there was one time that he'dcome and he'd, he was on his way
(24:46):
back from taking their food and they called out, hey, Lanky, you
haven't locked the door. He hadn't locked them in their
cell. Amazing.
Yeah. And do you What about your
mother? Did she talk much about it?
No, not really. She was a Breton, very hard,
(25:07):
determined Breton lady and she just got on with everything.
She took everything in her pace and she she never complained.
I could see the worry on her face, but she never said
anything. And what were their names?
My mother's name was Mary and myfather's name was Hubert Lanyon.
(25:28):
And did they live a long fulfilled life in Sark or did
they move to Guernsey or? They didn't live.
They lived the rest of their lives in, in Sark.
They didn't live till a ripe oldage.
They lived till about nearly 8079 I think, both of them.
So that wasn't, you know, with everything they put up with, I
suppose it took a toll on their life.
(25:50):
Do you remember what the processwas like for Sark to rebuild
after the war? I guess there was a big effort
to de mine the beaches. Do you remember how long it took
for Sark to become normal again?I don't really remember, but I
do remember the Germans had to come back and take the mines up
because and they did the coupe and I think one got killed
(26:13):
taking mines up from the coupe. And of course now they put, they
put better railings than it had before.
But it did take a little while. But the thing I remember most
was coming over to Guernsey for the day, a day trip in in a
little fishing boat. And my mother would go off and
do some shopping and she'd leaveus, my brother and I, in
Woolworths with a bit of pocket money.
(26:33):
And it was like, it was like a cave, a magician's cave, with
all the beautiful things, all the colours as colours of things
that struck me. And we'd go around, my brother
and I, in deciding what to get, and we decided we'd get a lead
for our dog. And my brother said, this is
good. Look, it's got a really strong
chain and it's got a good handleto hold on to.
(26:55):
So yeah, we bought that. So when we got home, one of my
sisters broke the balloon because she said that's not a
dog lead, it's a toilet chain. But the dog still had it as a
lead. I was going to say, of all the
toys you could have possibly got, you got a dog lead and
actually you ended up getting a toilet chain.
(27:16):
Amazing. Yeah, we had good times.
It gradually came back. Things came back slowly.
I think we weren't flooded straight away.
It was just a general filtering through.
Amazing. Am I right in saying that you
shared your story with some schools on the island?
Yes. For the last few years I've been
going up to the museum and talking to Guernsey children,
(27:40):
but this year I thought I shouldreally speak to the South
children. So I through the through the the
museum, the arrangement and theythought that was a really good
idea. They'd never done it before.
So I went over and spoke to the children and they were just
amazed. They couldn't believe it.
And of course some of the children there are newcomers to
(28:00):
the island. They didn't even realise they'd
been a war and some of them wereconnected with people I knew, so
they knew some of the backgroundas well.
But that was amazing and they were such lovely, lovely
children and they were so interested.
I'm glad I went and I wish I'd gone before.
(28:21):
Well, Maisie, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to
you. Thank you very much for sharing
your story with me. Thank you very much, Ollie.
Thank you. What a delight it was speaking
to Maisie and spending time withher at her house.
If you know of anyone else I should speak to for this series,
please let me know. Send a message to
ollie@ogpodcast.co.uk. Thanks to your support, this
(28:43):
podcast has made it into the Apple Podcast charts as one of
the top history podcasts in the Uki want to see it go further up
the charts though, so please, ifyou haven't already, subscribe
to the show, boost us further upand get this message out there.
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