February 25, 2025 • 39 mins
Are performance reviews a waste of time—or your agency’s secret weapon?
Too often, agencies treat performance management as a checkbox exercise, bogged down with vague feedback and awkward salary conversations. But Zoe Elizabeth Blogg, Operations Director at Reboot Online, has built a system that actually works.
From structured performance reviews to proactive (quarterly!) salary reviews, Zoe’s created a process that keeps teams engaged, managers confident, and top talent sticking around—all in a fully remote, four-day workweek agency.
In this conversation, Zoe breaks down how to make performance management meaningful and scalable.
Here’s what we dive into:
- Why performance reviews fail—and how to make them useful (without the admin burden)
- Why Reboot runs salary reviews four times a year—without turning them into negotiation battles
- The key to training new managers so they lead with confidence, not confusion
- How Reboot creates equally rewarding career growth paths for both individual contributors and managers.
Plus, Zoe shares impressive details on her line manager playbook, and structured career pathways.
Follow Zoe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoeelizabethblogg/
Visit Reboot’s website: https://www.rebootonline.com/us/
Follow Zoe on TikTok: @fractionalzo
Follow Harv on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harvnagra/
Stay up to date with regular ops insights. Subscribe to The Handbook: The Operations Newsletter.
This podcast is brought to you by Scoro, where you can manage your projects, resources and finances in a single system.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harv Nagra (2) (00:00):
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Now, back to the episode.
(01:28):
Hey y'all, welcome back to thepodcast.
Several years ago, I foundmyself going into a performance
review that felt completelyfreestyle.
There was no framework providedby my line manager.
Just a loose conversation basedon feelings.
Well, if you don't give someonewith an ops aptitude a
framework, they're going tocreate it.
I came into the review prepared.
(01:49):
I had a keynote presentationshowcasing my achievements, how
I'd gone above and beyond myrole and why I deserved a
promotion.
My line manager was caught offguard.
All he could do was agree thatyes, I was wonderful, great for
me, but not so much for him andthe agency.
Fast forward to when I became aline manager at that same
(02:10):
workplace.
I realized that this freestyleapproach wouldn't cut it.
So along with a couple ofcolleagues who also had line
management responsibilities, webuilt a structured new review
process with open endedquestions, rating scales for job
descriptions and values, 360degree feedback, and then, onto
objectives.
You name it, we added it.
(02:31):
It was well intentioned.
It was a reaction to havingnothing there before.
But it was heavy, especially forthe line managers.
Over time, it was streamlined.
But I could still hear thegroans whenever performance
review season rolled around.
Another challenge I've seen isthe connection between
promotions and the managementcareer path.
(02:52):
Promotions often get tied tomanagement responsibilities, but
let's face it, not everyone iscut out for it or even wants to
manage people.
Yet we push them into theseroles without training and then
we're surprised when it doesn'twork out.
Some people are incredibleindividual contributors.
Innovative, creative, andeffective.
(03:12):
Why are we so slow to realizethat?
And shouldn't they have anequally exciting career path?
So how do we fix all of this?
How do we make performancereviews genuinely valuable?
And how do we create compellingcareer paths for all individuals
in our agencies, whether they'reindividual contributors or line
managers.
Our guest today has some greatanswers to those questions.
(03:35):
We'll be speaking to ZoeElizabeth Blogg, Operations
Director at Reboot Online, aremote, multi award winning,
search led marketing agencybased in the UK.
Zoe has a proven track record ofscaling and nurturing teams,
with a focus on creatingenvironments where employees
feel seen, valued, and empoweredto excel.
(03:56):
Her people first operationstrategies and hands on
leadership have not only earnedReboot multiple culture awards,
but also resulted in exceptionaltalent retention in a workweek
setup.
Today we're going to dive intohow Zoe builds clear career
paths, manages performance, andhandles salary conversations.
(04:17):
Let's get into the conversation.
Harv Nagra (04:20):
Zoe, thank you so much for being here.
It's a pleasure to have you withus.
Zoe Blogg (04:23):
Thank you.
Thanks for inviting me.
Harv Nagra (04:25):
I love talking to Ops folks about how they got
into the space.
So I wanted to throw that overto you and tell us a bit about
your journey into agencyoperations.
Zoe Blogg (04:34):
Of course, I've listened to a few of these
podcasts, actually, and resonatewith a lot of what people say.
So my pathway has been verysquiggly, I studied marketing at
university and then ended upgetting some agency jobs whilst
at university, which was reallybeneficial.
So my second and third yearworked at startup agencies and
creative agencies.
(04:54):
And I guess I always gravitatedtowards trying to work in the
Organize what was chaos,especially in a startup role And
I think my managers saw that aswell because every time I
improved a workflow, you knowThey'd be like speak to zoe.
She's done this with her job andmaybe you could replicate that
yeah, so sort of worked throughthat way ended up becoming a
head of department about 25.
(05:16):
Head of ops at 28 and landed inan ops director role at 30.
Yes a bit windy, but i'm herenow.
Harv Nagra (05:22):
I love what you said about that whole talk to Zoe.
She'll, she'll kind of sort itout.
I think that seems to be atrait, doesn't it?
Like fixers and, uh,
Zoe Blogg (05:31):
very type A.
So anything to do withorganization, getting my job
done and yeah, sort of foundpeople were copying that quite a
lot, but that's fine.
Got me where I am.
Harv Nagra (05:41):
So we're talking today about career paths and
managing performance.
I was excited to talk to youabout this because when we
started speaking, I realizedthat you'd done a lot of really
interesting work in this space.
So lots for us to learn.
But first, I was gonna ask you,how many good line managers
you've had in your career?
Zoe Blogg (05:59):
I'd probably say I've had two really brilliant
managers, like ones I'vereferred back to and some of the
traits they did that I havetried to replicate.
Harv Nagra (06:08):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (06:09):
with I've worked at a lot of startups and I've often
sat directly under founders.
So what that's meant is althoughI've had a lot of autonomy in my
role, which I do prefer I'veended up writing a lot of my own
specs and
Harv Nagra (06:21):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (06:22):
my own roles.
But the managers that stood outI think they genuinely listened
to what I had to say.
They always carved out Time forme and one to ones and they
didn't move that time.
So I knew I had 15 minutes on aTuesday And it's not that
Harv Nagra (06:36):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (06:36):
stuff up for that meeting, but I knew it was there
if I needed it and they alsocared about my development.
So I didn't feel like I wastreading on toes with ideas.
They helped me get promotionsand work towards the operations
role.
And I think really Elsewhere,that lack of line management may
be shaped how I approach linemanagement today, and just make
(06:56):
sure I always give time forpeople that, I'm looking after
day to day.
And yeah, so two is my answer.
Harv Nagra (07:02):
Mm hmm.
I think for me as well, thatthere's probably a couple that
come to mind, but there was asense of, you know, Warmth
coming from them, direction butnot being prescriptive.
Zoe Blogg (07:12):
Warm is a good word.
I think like approachability,just knowing that you can come
to them.
Sometimes the situations outsideof work as well,
Harv Nagra (07:20):
mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (07:21):
general personal
Harv Nagra (07:22):
Mm
Zoe Blogg (07:22):
but being able to sort of bring up if maybe today
is not your best day or bestweek and they're able to help
you approach that.
and autonomy.
I think I'd lean on that again.
So if you've got a way of doingthings, it's not their way or
the highway, you can maybe tweakhow you work.
So yeah, for
Harv Nagra (07:36):
hmm.
Zoe Blogg (07:37):
come naturally to everyone, does it?
Harv Nagra (2) (07:39):
Absolutely not.
but we usually, when people aregetting promoted, throw them
into those duties.
When you and I are saying we'vehad two good managers, those
people may have intuitively hadsome of those skills, who knows,
maybe they did have sometraining, but oftentimes it's
not the case.
How can agencies better supportthis?
Zoe Blogg (07:59):
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think I fully agree on thearea around maybe not getting
training ourselves and itdoesn't come naturally because
when I'm working, especiallywith a lot of senior managers in
the agency I'm at now or priorones, I hear a lot like we have
no training, we do it.
So why can't they, you know,just crack on with it.
And I think especially whenagencies are so fast paced,
(08:20):
training is often the firstthing to go off the table,
especially when budgets arebeing cut.
Harv Nagra (08:25):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (08:26):
it really is a cycle that needs to be broken.
And really for Reboot, I've donequite a lot of work on this over
the last year and just lookingat our managers, who we've got
in those positions and what wecan do to set them up for
success.
I think I have written.
A lovely, even though I say somyself, line manager playbook
that outlines everythingmanagers need.
But what I have found is manypeople don't learn that way.
(08:49):
And they don't go aroundreading, SOPs and playbooks that
you put together.
So another thing I do is makesure to carve out that time.
So we have March Managertraining.
I think it's just the double Mfor me really works.
And so every March, we're fullyremote.
So I make the effort to getpeople together normally in
London.
And we just have a bit of async, you know, what's working,
what's not working, not sharingpersonal details or anything
(09:12):
like that, but perhaps certainscenarios.
I also have a manager basicscourse that I get everybody
working towards manager role anda bit of succession planning
going on and making sure thatthey've completed this course.
And it is an external providershout out to Mark, who does all
of this, but it's a fantasticcourse.
And I'm then confident knowingthat all of our managers have
had the same basic training.
(09:33):
So how to give feedback, how tolead a one to one, I think
really important and often getsoverlooked.
What is your manager style?
What sort of manager are you?
Like, what does it mean to be amanager?
So we do all of that.
And then I'd say additionally,probably because we are remote,
we've got a dedicated Slackchannel as well that the team
can, again, ask questions, leanon.
(09:54):
so I think as long as you've gotsome training in place and some
general guidelines, I do reallyadvocate for managers finding
their own style and their ownway of doing things.
Harv Nagra (2) (10:03):
I love that.
There's so much, so manyinteresting things there.
So if somebody new has come inthat has line management
responsibilities, let's say theystart in June, would they get
some training in the meantime?
And then it's kind of refreshedin March or what do you do with
that kind of thing?
Zoe Blogg (10:18):
Yes.
So say they start in June,they'd have their usual
onboarding plan within thecompany, and part of that would
form the line manager playbook.
So they can read through thatwhich has all the general
structures, and I'll catch upwith them personally, have a 1
to 1 with them and answer anyquestions.
And they've also got historicalaccess to the Slack channel, and
they can go through that.
Um, and then I do book them onto that manager basics course I
(10:39):
mentioned, and we run thatprobably twice a year.
It really depends how busy weare with hiring, but I'd say
twice a year they can jump on acourse.
And that's why I say successionplanning is so important because
if you've got someone in mindthat you think move into a
manager role, I'd rather theyjust, do the course and they're
covered.
Harv Nagra (10:56):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (10:56):
that's coming up and then March manager training day
is
Harv Nagra (10:59):
Mhm.
Zoe Blogg (11:00):
a slot to get all managers together.
And as I mentioned, like workthrough certain scenarios or
something that's maybe beenbothering them the last year as
managers that they want morepractice on.
So.
It's just nice and you get afree lunch out of it, which we
can
Harv Nagra (11:12):
I love it.
Zoe Blogg (11:12):
never complain about.
Harv Nagra (11:14):
That is genuinely something that just, um, it just
feels really inspiring andrefreshing to hear that you
provide that much support.
But why do you think it is thatwe default into thinking that
seniority and promotions comeswith line management
responsibilities?
I think there's not enoughawareness even of the individual
contributor path.
Zoe Blogg (11:34):
I think the IC point you raised there is so true and
actually like, hands up, Ididn't really know it fully
existed until I started workingwith recruiters that are
bringing people forward saying,this person is amazing at what
they do, but they don't want tomanage people, or they perhaps
don't have these skills, but Ithen really wanted them on my
team, having seen what they cando, and looking for ways to
(11:56):
structure that, I think to yourpoint, and maybe Default
promoting people into thesemanager positions is partly
tradition, I think everyonefeels like if you need to be
promoted you have to managepeople
Harv Nagra (12:06):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (12:07):
also a by product of startups as well.
So as I mentioned earlier withmy career path I started many
agencies when there were likefive or ten people And you have
to be so hands on and wear loadsof different hats and get stuck
in.
And I think traditionally thatjust filters upwards.
So perhaps where you wereflexible, you didn't really have
those locked, rigid structures.
(12:27):
And as an agency starts toscale, you are in a position
where you can start thinkingabout different roles that would
really benefit the agency.
And I do think sometimes that'soverlooked.
And I think just because, as wementioned, someone's great at
their job, it doesn't mean beinga manager is a natural next
step, or that they even want todo it.
you know, we put a survey out atreboot around that.
(12:49):
Once I introduced the individualcontributor roles and
surprisingly 68 percent of theteam said if this route's
available, I don't want to be amanager.
I want to stick at what I love.
I love digital PR.
I love technical sEO.
That is what I want to do day today.
so I think it is reallyimportant that we start thinking
about breaking away from theseoutdated structures and start to
(13:13):
really recognize the value thatthese ICs can really bring to
the agency and the impact theyhave rather than, This person's
got 10 reports, you know, let'spromote them further.
don't get me wrong.
If someone wants to be amanager, great.
And I am ready to set them upfor that success because we
actually now need more managersat reboot because of the sheer
amount of people that wants tostay with their day to day.
Harv Nagra (13:34):
Totally agree with you there.
I think people's jobsatisfaction could drop if
they're being forced to take ona role that they don't want,
like those kinds ofresponsibilities.
I've seen it where people don'thave the aptitude and they don't
have the interest.
And when they're in that role,the people that are reporting to
them are not happy because theytend to be, for various reasons,
(13:54):
terrible at it.
Zoe Blogg (13:55):
Your question earlier, when you asked me about
who are my top managers maybesome of those managers I had
felt forced into that position.
They perhaps didn't want to havethose allocated slots.
And then you end up learningthose habits.
and it's really hard to breakpeople out of those habits.
So when one of those peoplereporting in want to be a
manager down the line, theymight replicate, what those
(14:15):
technical managers did and howthey led one to one.
So, you know, it isn't for everyagency.
I do think we have toacknowledge the fact there are
many startup agencies out therewith five or 10 people.
And those new hires are crucial.
And you are going to have peoplethat can wear many different
hats.
But I think the sweet spot iswhen you get to around 30, 60
people, you can reall startthinking about, okay, who are my
(14:39):
top performers?
Who are really, driving ourprojects forward, impressing
clients.
And I don't want to take themaway from that.
And they don't want to be takenaway from that.
And who are people that perhapsactually aren't as technical,
but they have a real way withpeople.
They really, really want to be amanager and they've shown a lot
of interest in, general basictraining courses.
They want to attend trainingdays.
And I've really found the bestsuccess in that.
(15:00):
And we've really improvedretention rates from working
that way.
Harv Nagra (15:03):
Excellent.
You know, People may strugglewith being good managers when
there's no training availablebecause they haven't seen it.
If you don't know any better andyou haven't had somebody, show
you a nicer, better way to getthe best out of you, then it's
really difficult to see how thatperson would then be able to
inspire the people that theymanage, right?
So
Zoe Blogg (15:23):
so true.
You don't know what good lookslike until you've experienced
it.
Harv Nagra (15:27):
Another challenge I've seen with kind of the
individual contributor role isthat even when those roles
exist, it can get a bit muddledin terms of what the progression
plan is.
It's hard to understand how thatperson is going to move up in
their role and through theagency.
Have you done anything in thisspace to create career paths for
(15:48):
those roles that are asrewarding as for the managers?
Zoe Blogg (15:52):
The murkiness of career paths is something I see
often.
I think because I recruit a lotfor the agency.
I do have people come to me inperhaps roles that are very
broad, don't make much sense,they're a bit mixed on where
they fit at their currentagency, which is why they're
looking to move.
Harv Nagra (16:09):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (16:10):
I think I noted earlier, like myself writing out
my own job specs and pathways,because it was something I was
always lacking.
So for me, it was a realchallenge to try to build out
career pathways and packs thatmake sense for the agency I'm
currently at with Reboot.
And think it's important to knowIt's never going to be perfectly
black and white, right?
Sometimes you'll have talentthat you really want to retain,
(16:32):
and perhaps you'll slightlytweak their role to do so, you
know, if business needs arethere.
but I think really, as youmentioned, for IC roles, it
lacks the clarity or prestigethat comes with some management
positions.
So people do feel forced to gointo manager roles and they
don't know where else they cango.
So the career packs we've donefor reboot, I've tried to make
(16:52):
that clear.
What we have is for everymanager role is a corresponding
IC position.
So to put that into context, youmight have a manager.
So it's their first manager roleand level with them is a
specialist in that position.
So I would expect a specialistto be able to perform at a
manager level, but they're notlooking after people.
(17:13):
They can just run with theprojects and get it done.
Maybe join the old client call.
And then for a senior manager,we've got a strategist and then
for a head off, we've got anaccount director.
So what the team can really seeis that.
Along these pathways is aparallel IC route and it comes
with that same, reward, samesalary bands.
It's just differentexpectations.
(17:35):
and I can dive into what thesecareer packs look like if
they're available you like.
Harv Nagra (17:38):
Absolutely.
This is super cool to me thatyou've got these parallel
streams going.
Please tell us more.
Zoe Blogg (17:44):
Nice.
So yes, the career packsactually, you know, stole a
little bit from corporate.
So my partner works at a bankand I think they're very good at
having certain levels like A, B,C, D, H, etc.
Harv Nagra (17:55):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (17:56):
So I looked over there at what they've done with
their leveling system and if youcan visualize the career pack
it's broken down into threeboxes across the top and three
down the left hand side and thiscan be changed depending on your
agency.
So along the top is levels, soyou could call it A, B, C, but
I've called it On Appointment,Competent and Experienced.
(18:16):
And with those levels comes asalary bracket.
So everyone in the agency canclearly see if I was to join
this role On Appointment, Istart on X.
And if I was to become reallyexperienced in this role, and
this means, you know, nohandholding doing my job day to
day to the, top ability youmight land on Experienced.
Harv Nagra (18:34):
Right.
Okay.
Zoe Blogg (18:34):
And on the left hand side, split down into company
understanding, behaviors andvalues.
And then the bit that reallychanges is the role specific.
So what you need to do in thatrole.
So be it a tool, a certainskillset, the way you
communicate with clients andeverybody on the agency is
placed in a pack, they're veryclear on what level they're on,
(18:55):
and they can see also, which Ithink is really important, packs
across the other roles and maybeif they wanted to do a sideways
move.
So what we actually did inJanuary was move digital PR
execs to be content execs.
And those career packs reallyaligned.
It was very similar companyunderstanding and behaviors.
So all they had to work towardswas the role specifics.
(19:16):
So they did that, and movedacross.
So it has worked really well forus.
It's reduced a lot of questions.
People understand what they'reworking towards and they can go
into their one to ones withtheir managers, with certain
points that they want to discussor work on to get them to that
next level.
Harv Nagra (19:32):
Amazing.
I haven't seen this done in sucha meticulous way.
The fact that the ICs have thatclear progression visible and
they know what they need to doto get to that next level, I
think is, what's often missing.
And creates this kind of anxietythat, okay, I don't have line
management responsibilities, butwhere am I going to go next
(19:52):
here?
And it feels maybe like a bit ofa dead end sometimes.
So super, super interesting.
Zoe Blogg (19:58):
It's really good and it has as I say really helped
with retention because beforeyou might get people looking
elsewhere, or, also lookingelsewhere also looking if they
wanted to be a manager and theyfelt all the manager positions
were full because they You're anagency where they're promoting
all the top performers intomanager roles and you can't get
those positions.
So actually broadening out theopportunities for the team, you
(20:19):
know, in operations, I wouldmuch rather be paying a handful
of specialists doing their joband experience level.
And then have a solid managerthere than having people keep
leave and I'm having to replaceit at exec level So it has been
really beneficial to have thatfor sure.
Harv Nagra (20:34):
Excellent.
All right.
So let's talk about performancereviews and performance
management.
I see the occasional articlesaying that you should be
ditching performance reviewsaltogether.
I don't know if I completelyagree.
do you think they're important?
Zoe Blogg (20:50):
Short answer.
Yes.
I do think they're importantI've also read many an article
so many different linkedin postsand got sucked into that You
know who needs them who needs tospend the time, but actually I
have settled on if you carve outthat time and provided they're
done, right really does help.
As long as they're not acheckbox exercise, you can get a
lot of value from leading them.
(21:10):
Mm.
Harv Nagra (21:11):
It's not good to have the checkbox exercise
because you're just wastingeveryone's time.
On the other hand, I alsounderstand people's fear of the
labor involved.
So I think there's things thatneed to be done to make it feel
as light as possible, but at thesame time, it is a really
important exercise for thebusiness and for the individual.
Zoe Blogg (21:32):
It's super important, especially as you say, if you're
getting value add at the bottomof it and actually doing
something with that information.
So as you said, there's acheckbox thing.
So making sure you're not doingthat and you're actually carving
out the time and listening andhaving a genuine conversation.
But then I think the questionis, what are you then doing with
that information afterwards andmaking sure managers can see it
(21:54):
being used.
Harv Nagra (21:55):
Hmm.
Zoe Blogg (21:55):
We actually run through, I say, we our lovely HR
manager, Fiona runs through andlooks at themes that come out.
Of those appraisals and thenbuilds a bit of an action plan.
And we have focus groups withmanagers to make sure we're
getting that done.
Harv Nagra (22:08):
Excellent.
So that leads us to our nextquestion where I think you've
made quite a few optimizationsto your own annual review
process.
So, in order to get that towork, what have been the kind of
biggest challenges and what haveyou done to overcome some of
those?
Zoe Blogg (22:24):
The biggest one a hundred percent is time.
You always hear in agencies, Idon't have enough time.
I don't want to be doing this.
I've got client pitches comefirst.
When can I fit this in?
Harv Nagra (22:34):
exactly.
Zoe Blogg (22:35):
I've had it in previous roles where I've been
chasing for months.
By which point it's was thereactually any point in leading
this review because I neededthis data back in april, you
know.
Harv Nagra (22:44):
Hmm.
Mm
Zoe Blogg (22:45):
i've really tried to streamline it.
I think the three key challengesare time, varying experience
that your managers might haveand an issue of trust as well,
especially in smaller founderled companies What are my
managers saying to my staff?
Do I trust what they're saying?
so I have tried to go throughand answer all of these so I
think time We've really strippedthat down to look at twice a
(23:09):
year slots.
So we look at running them inApril and October, and we just
use a really simple platformcalled Charlie HR.
Within that I've gone throughand I've taken out any mention
of salaries.
Harv Nagra (23:22):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (23:22):
sometimes line managers can be put in
uncomfortable positions, tryingto answer that.
I've really led the appraisalwith six questions sort of, you
know, what value have you addedto the company?
Harv Nagra (23:33):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (23:33):
Where do you see yourself in the next three
months those sort of questions?
So I know they're all being ledin the same way.
Harv Nagra (23:39):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (23:39):
I think a great thing about Charlie HR, which
honestly, I was a little bitunsure of initially, but I've
come round to it, is that itprompts you to fill out the
questions first.
So the employee will answer thequestions and the manager will
answer the questions and bothwill be able to see that
conversation in Charlie.
And then the time is booked inso i've asked to keep them to
(24:01):
about 30 minutes 40 max But whatreally helps is all that
information is already incharlie, you can see what each
other has said about one anotherand it's unbiased as well
because you've been separatedFrom that person.
And it speeds up theconversation So you're really
focusing on smart goals andputting that information down
and really the manager canlisten In those meetings,
(24:22):
they're not scribbling away.
So I think really it's justimportant that we're keeping the
reviews simple and impactful andtime efficient.
we know what managers are askingand they know what they can and
can't say in those reviews andemployees know that as well.
Harv Nagra (24:35):
So twice a year, and then in terms of kind of setting
objectives, does that come outof those conversations or how
does that work?
Zoe Blogg (24:43):
So I always encourage line managers to reach out to,
day to day managers and get abit of a view of how the
employees are working, but wework towards a SMART goal
system.
Harv Nagra (24:52):
You were saying?
Zoe Blogg (24:53):
Charlie prompts you to fill in three objectives and
ideally line managers are doingthat off the back of career
progression pathways, the oneswe spoke through earlier.
So you can see where saidemployee is in the competent
role.
You can see what they need to doto get to experienced.
And my advice to managers, asyou pick out like one company,
understanding maybe one behaviorand two, role specific, and then
(25:16):
they can work on building outsmart goals.
And they've already had trainingand how to do those.
Harv Nagra (25:21):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (25:21):
they're pretty consistent across the board and
that gets rid of that trustissue because I have found
sometimes CEOs I've been in anagency where the CEO took all of
them on themselves and weretrying to lead these appraisals
because their team was saying, Idon't have time.
They didn't trust that themanager was gonna give someone a
10 K pay rise and sort of runoff with objectives.
(25:43):
But then, you know, the CEOdoesn't know what's happening
day to day with the person.
They can't really giveconstructive feedback.
So I've really found it helpfulto structure those appraisals,
have set times, set questions,max.
And I know for sure all mymanagers are trained in the
basics.
They know how to set a SMARTgoal and all the information is
in the career pack.
So you can't really Go wrong.
Harv Nagra (26:05):
That is really interesting.
But why then twice a year for anexercise that people might
already be feeling isoverwhelming once a year?
why do you think that's soimportant?
Zoe Blogg (26:15):
think it's super important, especially as we're a
four day week, to make sure theteam are really productive and
they've always got a new goal towork towards.
And I feel like honestly, andOctober came out of, you start a
new year, you settle in.
So by April, you've got theheadspace and time to do that.
And for October, really, it wasleading up to the Christmas
break, making sure, in the lastquarter, we're giving all we
(26:37):
possibly can and hitting all ofthose goals.
But I think six months really isenough to be on track.
But also have an idea of a newgoal.
And the team constantly feellike they're progressing towards
something new, something more,they're not staying stagnant.
Um,
Harv Nagra (26:53):
Hmm.
Zoe Blogg (26:53):
I think.
any more than that, you end uprunning the risk of these
routine check ins that, end upbeing tip box exercises.
So I'm not saying you can't havea quick 15 minute with your team
outside of these, but theseperformance reviews are purely
on how are you doing in yourrole?
Say you're on appointment, howdo you become competent?
And I really think it'simportant to do that before a
(27:15):
year is up, to be honest.
And salary reviews, like Imentioned, are completely.
Separate.
So you're not getting into allof that.
You're purely talking about howcan I be better in the role I'm
in.
Harv Nagra (27:25):
You mentioned why it's important to take the
salary reviews out of thoseconversations and I think that's
fair.
But, how do you then handlethese?
Zoe Blogg (27:35):
So with our salary reviews, it's something new,
actually, that I've been doingat this agency for the last year
and a half now.
Harv Nagra (27:41):
Okay.
Zoe Blogg (27:42):
and I run talent mapping exercises with the
senior leadership at the end ofevery quarter.
So I am a complete sucker for agood playbook.
So of course there's a careerdevelopment playbook that goes
alongside this.
So the team know when I'mlooking to review salaries and
they know that the next monthafter that, review would be the,
update in pay.
(28:03):
So if anyone was to put themforward to say like March, they
would know that April would bewhen that's all approved in the
budget and they might get theirincreased pay.
Harv Nagra (28:12):
hmm.
Zoe Blogg (28:12):
The reason I do this is one, because I've been a
manager myself in appraisalswhere it's ended up being all
about pay, and not about generalperformance or where the agency
is going.
And it completely distracts theagency.
From the conversation.
And sometimes as an earlymanager, you can feel really
uncomfortable.
Harv Nagra (28:29):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (28:29):
and you're actually a bit worried to go into these
sessions and sometimes you canpanic and say something on the
spot like, Oh yes, I'll put thisforward.
And you regret that you've saidthat and you actually wanted to
give, some constructivefeedback.
So I've taken that out.
and I find Once a year sometimesisn't enough.
Sometimes, especially in thoseinternship roles or junior
position roles, people do moveup relatively quickly.
(28:51):
And if you're in a startupagency, sometimes, you know, you
need to move people through theranks as well.
I'd say Essentially with thembeing at the end of every
quarter the entire team is veryclear on how our compensation
process works They know how toput themselves forward for said
review And then I can do thatmyself for senior leaders and
(29:12):
I'll look at key information.
When was their last pay rise?
When were they promoted last andwe can try and be proactive
about it.
And that proactivity is alsoreally helpful retention.
I think the last thing I want isfor a key a star, player to be
looking for another role becausethey didn't know how and when
they could grow.
and then we're almost counteroffering when they come to us
(29:35):
saying they're leaving.
So I'm pretty confident withthis process, knowing that I'm
paying everyone what I feel theydeserve to be paid.
I'm on top of it and we don'thave top team members waiting an
entire year or more for a salaryincrease.
Harv Nagra (29:49):
Super interesting.
So it doesn't necessarily meanthat a certain individual would
be, set up for four pay rises ina year, but just that you have a
more frequent cycle of reviewsin case you need to bump
somebody up because of X, Y, Zreason.
Zoe Blogg (30:09):
yeah, definitely.
I would say we've not had anyonecome forward for four pay rises
in a year.
Although, you know, if someonewas working through really
quickly, I wouldn't be againstdoing that if they were hitting
all the boxes.
But yeah, it just allows usreally to remain proactive, to
keep on top of when people arebeing paid, what they're after
that way.
And also, I suppose on the flipside, A year can sometimes get
(30:30):
long if we're doing them everyquarter As an employer some i've
had sometimes people go a yearand a half Maybe two years
without a pay rise, but theyunderstand where they're sat.
What level they're at and whatthey need to do to get more and
it's allowed me as an anemployer to pull out that
timeline a little longer becausethey know i'm reviewing every
(30:52):
quarter Um, and it doesn't meanyou're having those
conversations every quartertheir name might not come up Um,
or they might not put themselvesforward, but everybody knows
that time slot is there and theycan do that.
So it has actually helped us toreduce the conversations.
We've not actually had as manypeople come forward as I thought
we might.
Mm And that proactive approachis actually more often than not
(31:13):
the way I end up doing things.
It's often me coming to peoplesaying, you know, it looks like
you're working around here afterspeaking with your manager.
This is what we're gonna moveyou on to.
but yeah, there are benefits forthe employer as well.
I think if you're doing themonce a year, people almost
expect to receive an increase,at that time every single year.
And a big one for operations aswell as it helps with the P and
(31:36):
L because our bumps are spreadout across the year.
You're not getting these hugelump sums in May when I've given
everyone, a 10% increase.
So there's some real benefits tothe approach so far.
Yeah.
Harv Nagra (31:47):
I haven't heard anybody having those frequent,
increments for review, but I candefinitely see the benefit, so
well done.
And I think, with thesequarterly reviews, it puts the
onus back on the individual.
They know what they need to do,whereas in the annual thing, it
becomes a really almost like adesperate hope for everyone that
I hope this is done.
Whereas now you're saying, youknow what you need to do to get
(32:10):
to that level.
So, you know, do it.
Zoe Blogg (32:14):
There have definitely been more productive and
thoughtful conversations thathave come around for it when
people have put themselvesforward.
And I do say as well, alwayshave your line manager backing.
So anyone that's puttingthemselves forward, they've
spoken to their line managerfollows up and says, yes, I
agree with this.
And it's just, it's a mucheasier conversation.
And as you say, it puts the onuson the person to get it done.
Harv Nagra (32:34):
Do you do any external benchmarking on
salaries?
Zoe Blogg (32:37):
Yes, so in our career progression playbook, we note
that in February every yearwe'll do a benchmarking
exercise.
So unless anything major happensin the economy, February is a
good time for us to sit back andreview.
So I do collate all thesebenchmark reports.
I think there's one literallycalled the benchmark report in
agencies that I get together andwe've got a few key external
(32:58):
recruiters we use that I mightreach out to and say, Hey,
What's going in the market?
What are you seeing right now inthe agency?
How does this sound to you?
I do find you tend to have to gowith your own sort of
information first And thenthey'll come back and a bit of
finger in the air and where thatsits So we do make an effort to
do that.
I would say specifically forroles like digital PR.
(33:19):
It's really hard Because theroles are very different at
different agencies.
It's quite niche.
So it's a lot easier to find,you know, graphic designer
rates, maybe developer rates.
But when you're really gettinginto what it means to be a tech
SEO or digital PR, I think someof that does have to come from,
your own understanding of theteam as well.
So yeah, a bit of a mix in termsof what we do, but it's all
(33:40):
transparent for the team.
And I do encourage people tocome to me if they've seen a
resource with a certain setbudget.
to come to me and highlight thatbecause one of the difficulties
we have is we're spread all overthe UK.
So there's London salary andthen there's where I am, Leeds
salary, it's very differentunfortunately,
Harv Nagra (33:57):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (33:58):
to work out a balance there as well.
Harv Nagra (34:00):
Mm hmm.
First of all, Zoe, you'vethought of everything so I need
to get a copy of theseplaybooks.
This sounds amazing.
I love that, how thorough youare about things.
I mean, I'm gonna go on a, justa very quick tangent.
that whole thing about like theLondon salary versus the rest of
the country.
If someone moves out of thecity, is that then adjusted?
(34:22):
Have you ever had to deal withthat kind of situation?
Zoe Blogg (34:25):
That's a very good question we've had it the
opposite way Yeah.
So I've had people move toLondon.
And then flag they've moved andthis is what they've seen.
This is London salary Bystandard we do try to go on
London rates because that'swhere agency was established So
I guess then it puts people likeme in a fortunate position where
(34:46):
i'm on more of a London salaryBut I'm based in Leeds, but I
guess that is my own choice.
And then, it gives people thefreedom to move around.
So I've definitely had it theopposite way, but we wouldn't be
in the habit of, reducing rates.
And I think it's also importantto highlight, we're four day
week.
We don't work Fridays, but ourpay isn't prorated either.
it's the full salary.
So very lucky
Harv Nagra (35:07):
Yeah.
Amazing.
So a couple of questions now,first is you mentioned being
fully remote and the other isfour day work week.
So fully remote, sometimes Ihear, four day work week in an
agency I don't hear very oftenat all.
So congrats on that.
Tell us a bit about both ofthose.
Have you always been fullyremote and when and why did you
(35:29):
decide to do the four day workweek?
Zoe Blogg (35:33):
no, we've not always been fully remote, that came out
of COVID.
silver linings from a time thatI know was difficult for many.
Mm The agency grew rapidlyduring that time from around 20
ish to 55 people.
And rather than expand theoffice space that they had, in
London, the team went fullyremote because we saw that we
could do it.
(35:53):
And then the 4 day week camefrom our founders, Shia and
Naomi.
They are huge on well being andjust having that work life
balance because they started theagency to get out of roles where
they perhaps felt like theydidn't have that freedom or
autonomy and they were working.
Rather than living, so theyinitially started that.
(36:13):
I think one of the things we'reknown for at Reboot is our
experiments.
And we've got a whole page ofthat on our website.
The different SEO experiments welead, but also culture
experiments.
with the 4 day week.
yeah, Shire is extremely dataled and, as am I and Ops and
it's increased our productivityby, it was 702 percent on the
Harv Nagra (36:32):
Wow.
Zoe Blogg (36:33):
that we did it and it's settled at around 306, I
think we're on now.
so the numbers speak forthemselves,
Harv Nagra (36:39):
That is incredible.
Zoe Blogg (36:41):
go back anytime soon.
Harv Nagra (36:42):
very cool.
Well done on that.
And what a perk for people aswell, as in terms of a benefit,
it's hard to match when you geta three day weekend every week.
Zoe Blogg (36:52):
Exactly.
I would really struggle to givemy Fridays
Harv Nagra (36:55):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (36:56):
now.
I think I've got used to iteventually.
Harv Nagra (36:58):
Exactly.
so Zoe, this has been reallyinteresting and lots of
inspiration there about thingsthat you're doing really well
that hopefully the rest of uscan take something from and
emulate.
But if anybody wants to pickyour brain and hear from you
and, get some advice, where canthey reach out to you and learn
a bit more?
Zoe Blogg (37:16):
So the best platform really is LinkedIn.
that
Harv Nagra (37:18):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (37:20):
I've also been experimenting with TikTok
actually.
So
Harv Nagra (37:23):
Oh, cool.
Zoe Blogg (37:24):
fractional Zoe is my handle.
Harv Nagra (37:26):
Oh, nice.
Zoe Blogg (37:27):
or you can visit Reboot online and send me a
direct email through there.
Harv Nagra (37:32):
Excellent.
Very good.
We'll put links to all of theabove in the episode notes.
Zoe, such an inspiration.
thank you so much for beinghere.
And, I look forward to speakingto you again soon.
Zoe Blogg (37:43):
Amazing.
Thank you for your time.
It's been great.
And yeah, catch up soon.
Harv Nagra (2) (37:47):
how good is Zoe?
You know you're an OPS nerd whenyou get excited talking about
tables laying out jobresponsibilities.
But seriously, I thought all ofthat was so interesting and so
well executed.
There was so much great stuffZoe was doing That I'm going to
recap it for you here.
First, she has a plan fortraining new line managers,
(38:07):
including her own line managerplaybook, but also puts them on
external training in addition tothe management training days
they hold in March in house.
She has a career pathways packfor each role, including that
matrix I was referring to amoment ago.
Next for each manager role, shehas a corresponding individual
contributor role.
(38:28):
I can't be the only oneimpressed with that.
That is so good.
Then onto performance reviews.
She runs those twice a year Andsalaries get reviewed four times
a year.
That is incredible.
You don't need to scribble downnotes.
Sign up for the handbooknewsletter at scoro.com/podcast,
where we'll send you a cheatsheet of the takeaways from each
(38:50):
episode, so you've got somethingto reference.
Now, who do you know that wouldbenefit from hearing today's
conversation on career paths andperformance reviews?
Please send them the episode andask them to listen and
subscribe.
And if you haven't already andenjoy listening to The Handbook,
please rate the podcast onApple, Spotify, or wherever you
(39:10):
get your podcasts.
I'll be back with the nextepisode soon.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening to The Handbook, the
(00:01):
agency operations podcast.
This podcast is brought to youby Scoro.
Scoro is an agency platform thatbrings together your quoting,
task, time and budget tracking,invoicing, and agency reporting.
One reason I brought Scoro intomy past agency and why I loved
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(00:22):
We had different agencies indifferent countries and we
needed a common platform thatallowed us to collaborate across
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Now, back to the episode.
(01:28):
Hey y'all, welcome back to thepodcast.
Several years ago, I foundmyself going into a performance
review that felt completelyfreestyle.
There was no framework providedby my line manager.
Just a loose conversation basedon feelings.
Well, if you don't give someonewith an ops aptitude a
framework, they're going tocreate it.
I came into the review prepared.
(01:49):
I had a keynote presentationshowcasing my achievements, how
I'd gone above and beyond myrole and why I deserved a
promotion.
My line manager was caught offguard.
All he could do was agree thatyes, I was wonderful, great for
me, but not so much for him andthe agency.
Fast forward to when I became aline manager at that same
(02:10):
workplace.
I realized that this freestyleapproach wouldn't cut it.
So along with a couple ofcolleagues who also had line
management responsibilities, webuilt a structured new review
process with open endedquestions, rating scales for job
descriptions and values, 360degree feedback, and then, onto
objectives.
You name it, we added it.
(02:31):
It was well intentioned.
It was a reaction to havingnothing there before.
But it was heavy, especially forthe line managers.
Over time, it was streamlined.
But I could still hear thegroans whenever performance
review season rolled around.
Another challenge I've seen isthe connection between
promotions and the managementcareer path.
(02:52):
Promotions often get tied tomanagement responsibilities, but
let's face it, not everyone iscut out for it or even wants to
manage people.
Yet we push them into theseroles without training and then
we're surprised when it doesn'twork out.
Some people are incredibleindividual contributors.
Innovative, creative, andeffective.
(03:12):
Why are we so slow to realizethat?
And shouldn't they have anequally exciting career path?
So how do we fix all of this?
How do we make performancereviews genuinely valuable?
And how do we create compellingcareer paths for all individuals
in our agencies, whether they'reindividual contributors or line
managers.
Our guest today has some greatanswers to those questions.
(03:35):
We'll be speaking to ZoeElizabeth Blogg, Operations
Director at Reboot Online, aremote, multi award winning,
search led marketing agencybased in the UK.
Zoe has a proven track record ofscaling and nurturing teams,
with a focus on creatingenvironments where employees
feel seen, valued, and empoweredto excel.
(03:56):
Her people first operationstrategies and hands on
leadership have not only earnedReboot multiple culture awards,
but also resulted in exceptionaltalent retention in a workweek
setup.
Today we're going to dive intohow Zoe builds clear career
paths, manages performance, andhandles salary conversations.
(04:17):
Let's get into the conversation.
Harv Nagra (04:20):
Zoe, thank you so much for being here.
It's a pleasure to have you withus.
Zoe Blogg (04:23):
Thank you.
Thanks for inviting me.
Harv Nagra (04:25):
I love talking to Ops folks about how they got
into the space.
So I wanted to throw that overto you and tell us a bit about
your journey into agencyoperations.
Zoe Blogg (04:34):
Of course, I've listened to a few of these
podcasts, actually, and resonatewith a lot of what people say.
So my pathway has been verysquiggly, I studied marketing at
university and then ended upgetting some agency jobs whilst
at university, which was reallybeneficial.
So my second and third yearworked at startup agencies and
creative agencies.
(04:54):
And I guess I always gravitatedtowards trying to work in the
Organize what was chaos,especially in a startup role And
I think my managers saw that aswell because every time I
improved a workflow, you knowThey'd be like speak to zoe.
She's done this with her job andmaybe you could replicate that
yeah, so sort of worked throughthat way ended up becoming a
head of department about 25.
(05:16):
Head of ops at 28 and landed inan ops director role at 30.
Yes a bit windy, but i'm herenow.
Harv Nagra (05:22):
I love what you said about that whole talk to Zoe.
She'll, she'll kind of sort itout.
I think that seems to be atrait, doesn't it?
Like fixers and, uh,
Zoe Blogg (05:31):
very type A.
So anything to do withorganization, getting my job
done and yeah, sort of foundpeople were copying that quite a
lot, but that's fine.
Got me where I am.
Harv Nagra (05:41):
So we're talking today about career paths and
managing performance.
I was excited to talk to youabout this because when we
started speaking, I realizedthat you'd done a lot of really
interesting work in this space.
So lots for us to learn.
But first, I was gonna ask you,how many good line managers
you've had in your career?
Zoe Blogg (05:59):
I'd probably say I've had two really brilliant
managers, like ones I'vereferred back to and some of the
traits they did that I havetried to replicate.
Harv Nagra (06:08):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (06:09):
with I've worked at a lot of startups and I've often
sat directly under founders.
So what that's meant is althoughI've had a lot of autonomy in my
role, which I do prefer I'veended up writing a lot of my own
specs and
Harv Nagra (06:21):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (06:22):
my own roles.
But the managers that stood outI think they genuinely listened
to what I had to say.
They always carved out Time forme and one to ones and they
didn't move that time.
So I knew I had 15 minutes on aTuesday And it's not that
Harv Nagra (06:36):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (06:36):
stuff up for that meeting, but I knew it was there
if I needed it and they alsocared about my development.
So I didn't feel like I wastreading on toes with ideas.
They helped me get promotionsand work towards the operations
role.
And I think really Elsewhere,that lack of line management may
be shaped how I approach linemanagement today, and just make
(06:56):
sure I always give time forpeople that, I'm looking after
day to day.
And yeah, so two is my answer.
Harv Nagra (07:02):
Mm hmm.
I think for me as well, thatthere's probably a couple that
come to mind, but there was asense of, you know, Warmth
coming from them, direction butnot being prescriptive.
Zoe Blogg (07:12):
Warm is a good word.
I think like approachability,just knowing that you can come
to them.
Sometimes the situations outsideof work as well,
Harv Nagra (07:20):
mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (07:21):
general personal
Harv Nagra (07:22):
Mm
Zoe Blogg (07:22):
but being able to sort of bring up if maybe today
is not your best day or bestweek and they're able to help
you approach that.
and autonomy.
I think I'd lean on that again.
So if you've got a way of doingthings, it's not their way or
the highway, you can maybe tweakhow you work.
So yeah, for
Harv Nagra (07:36):
hmm.
Zoe Blogg (07:37):
come naturally to everyone, does it?
Harv Nagra (2) (07:39):
Absolutely not.
but we usually, when people aregetting promoted, throw them
into those duties.
When you and I are saying we'vehad two good managers, those
people may have intuitively hadsome of those skills, who knows,
maybe they did have sometraining, but oftentimes it's
not the case.
How can agencies better supportthis?
Zoe Blogg (07:59):
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think I fully agree on thearea around maybe not getting
training ourselves and itdoesn't come naturally because
when I'm working, especiallywith a lot of senior managers in
the agency I'm at now or priorones, I hear a lot like we have
no training, we do it.
So why can't they, you know,just crack on with it.
And I think especially whenagencies are so fast paced,
(08:20):
training is often the firstthing to go off the table,
especially when budgets arebeing cut.
Harv Nagra (08:25):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (08:26):
it really is a cycle that needs to be broken.
And really for Reboot, I've donequite a lot of work on this over
the last year and just lookingat our managers, who we've got
in those positions and what wecan do to set them up for
success.
I think I have written.
A lovely, even though I say somyself, line manager playbook
that outlines everythingmanagers need.
But what I have found is manypeople don't learn that way.
(08:49):
And they don't go aroundreading, SOPs and playbooks that
you put together.
So another thing I do is makesure to carve out that time.
So we have March Managertraining.
I think it's just the double Mfor me really works.
And so every March, we're fullyremote.
So I make the effort to getpeople together normally in
London.
And we just have a bit of async, you know, what's working,
what's not working, not sharingpersonal details or anything
(09:12):
like that, but perhaps certainscenarios.
I also have a manager basicscourse that I get everybody
working towards manager role anda bit of succession planning
going on and making sure thatthey've completed this course.
And it is an external providershout out to Mark, who does all
of this, but it's a fantasticcourse.
And I'm then confident knowingthat all of our managers have
had the same basic training.
(09:33):
So how to give feedback, how tolead a one to one, I think
really important and often getsoverlooked.
What is your manager style?
What sort of manager are you?
Like, what does it mean to be amanager?
So we do all of that.
And then I'd say additionally,probably because we are remote,
we've got a dedicated Slackchannel as well that the team
can, again, ask questions, leanon.
(09:54):
so I think as long as you've gotsome training in place and some
general guidelines, I do reallyadvocate for managers finding
their own style and their ownway of doing things.
Harv Nagra (2) (10:03):
I love that.
There's so much, so manyinteresting things there.
So if somebody new has come inthat has line management
responsibilities, let's say theystart in June, would they get
some training in the meantime?
And then it's kind of refreshedin March or what do you do with
that kind of thing?
Zoe Blogg (10:18):
Yes.
So say they start in June,they'd have their usual
onboarding plan within thecompany, and part of that would
form the line manager playbook.
So they can read through thatwhich has all the general
structures, and I'll catch upwith them personally, have a 1
to 1 with them and answer anyquestions.
And they've also got historicalaccess to the Slack channel, and
they can go through that.
Um, and then I do book them onto that manager basics course I
(10:39):
mentioned, and we run thatprobably twice a year.
It really depends how busy weare with hiring, but I'd say
twice a year they can jump on acourse.
And that's why I say successionplanning is so important because
if you've got someone in mindthat you think move into a
manager role, I'd rather theyjust, do the course and they're
covered.
Harv Nagra (10:56):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (10:56):
that's coming up and then March manager training day
is
Harv Nagra (10:59):
Mhm.
Zoe Blogg (11:00):
a slot to get all managers together.
And as I mentioned, like workthrough certain scenarios or
something that's maybe beenbothering them the last year as
managers that they want morepractice on.
So.
It's just nice and you get afree lunch out of it, which we
can
Harv Nagra (11:12):
I love it.
Zoe Blogg (11:12):
never complain about.
Harv Nagra (11:14):
That is genuinely something that just, um, it just
feels really inspiring andrefreshing to hear that you
provide that much support.
But why do you think it is thatwe default into thinking that
seniority and promotions comeswith line management
responsibilities?
I think there's not enoughawareness even of the individual
contributor path.
Zoe Blogg (11:34):
I think the IC point you raised there is so true and
actually like, hands up, Ididn't really know it fully
existed until I started workingwith recruiters that are
bringing people forward saying,this person is amazing at what
they do, but they don't want tomanage people, or they perhaps
don't have these skills, but Ithen really wanted them on my
team, having seen what they cando, and looking for ways to
(11:56):
structure that, I think to yourpoint, and maybe Default
promoting people into thesemanager positions is partly
tradition, I think everyonefeels like if you need to be
promoted you have to managepeople
Harv Nagra (12:06):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (12:07):
also a by product of startups as well.
So as I mentioned earlier withmy career path I started many
agencies when there were likefive or ten people And you have
to be so hands on and wear loadsof different hats and get stuck
in.
And I think traditionally thatjust filters upwards.
So perhaps where you wereflexible, you didn't really have
those locked, rigid structures.
(12:27):
And as an agency starts toscale, you are in a position
where you can start thinkingabout different roles that would
really benefit the agency.
And I do think sometimes that'soverlooked.
And I think just because, as wementioned, someone's great at
their job, it doesn't mean beinga manager is a natural next
step, or that they even want todo it.
you know, we put a survey out atreboot around that.
(12:49):
Once I introduced the individualcontributor roles and
surprisingly 68 percent of theteam said if this route's
available, I don't want to be amanager.
I want to stick at what I love.
I love digital PR.
I love technical sEO.
That is what I want to do day today.
so I think it is reallyimportant that we start thinking
about breaking away from theseoutdated structures and start to
(13:13):
really recognize the value thatthese ICs can really bring to
the agency and the impact theyhave rather than, This person's
got 10 reports, you know, let'spromote them further.
don't get me wrong.
If someone wants to be amanager, great.
And I am ready to set them upfor that success because we
actually now need more managersat reboot because of the sheer
amount of people that wants tostay with their day to day.
Harv Nagra (13:34):
Totally agree with you there.
I think people's jobsatisfaction could drop if
they're being forced to take ona role that they don't want,
like those kinds ofresponsibilities.
I've seen it where people don'thave the aptitude and they don't
have the interest.
And when they're in that role,the people that are reporting to
them are not happy because theytend to be, for various reasons,
(13:54):
terrible at it.
Zoe Blogg (13:55):
Your question earlier, when you asked me about
who are my top managers maybesome of those managers I had
felt forced into that position.
They perhaps didn't want to havethose allocated slots.
And then you end up learningthose habits.
and it's really hard to breakpeople out of those habits.
So when one of those peoplereporting in want to be a
manager down the line, theymight replicate, what those
(14:15):
technical managers did and howthey led one to one.
So, you know, it isn't for everyagency.
I do think we have toacknowledge the fact there are
many startup agencies out therewith five or 10 people.
And those new hires are crucial.
And you are going to have peoplethat can wear many different
hats.
But I think the sweet spot iswhen you get to around 30, 60
people, you can reall startthinking about, okay, who are my
(14:39):
top performers?
Who are really, driving ourprojects forward, impressing
clients.
And I don't want to take themaway from that.
And they don't want to be takenaway from that.
And who are people that perhapsactually aren't as technical,
but they have a real way withpeople.
They really, really want to be amanager and they've shown a lot
of interest in, general basictraining courses.
They want to attend trainingdays.
And I've really found the bestsuccess in that.
(15:00):
And we've really improvedretention rates from working
that way.
Harv Nagra (15:03):
Excellent.
You know, People may strugglewith being good managers when
there's no training availablebecause they haven't seen it.
If you don't know any better andyou haven't had somebody, show
you a nicer, better way to getthe best out of you, then it's
really difficult to see how thatperson would then be able to
inspire the people that theymanage, right?
So
Zoe Blogg (15:23):
so true.
You don't know what good lookslike until you've experienced
it.
Harv Nagra (15:27):
Another challenge I've seen with kind of the
individual contributor role isthat even when those roles
exist, it can get a bit muddledin terms of what the progression
plan is.
It's hard to understand how thatperson is going to move up in
their role and through theagency.
Have you done anything in thisspace to create career paths for
(15:48):
those roles that are asrewarding as for the managers?
Zoe Blogg (15:52):
The murkiness of career paths is something I see
often.
I think because I recruit a lotfor the agency.
I do have people come to me inperhaps roles that are very
broad, don't make much sense,they're a bit mixed on where
they fit at their currentagency, which is why they're
looking to move.
Harv Nagra (16:09):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (16:10):
I think I noted earlier, like myself writing out
my own job specs and pathways,because it was something I was
always lacking.
So for me, it was a realchallenge to try to build out
career pathways and packs thatmake sense for the agency I'm
currently at with Reboot.
And think it's important to knowIt's never going to be perfectly
black and white, right?
Sometimes you'll have talentthat you really want to retain,
(16:32):
and perhaps you'll slightlytweak their role to do so, you
know, if business needs arethere.
but I think really, as youmentioned, for IC roles, it
lacks the clarity or prestigethat comes with some management
positions.
So people do feel forced to gointo manager roles and they
don't know where else they cango.
So the career packs we've donefor reboot, I've tried to make
(16:52):
that clear.
What we have is for everymanager role is a corresponding
IC position.
So to put that into context, youmight have a manager.
So it's their first manager roleand level with them is a
specialist in that position.
So I would expect a specialistto be able to perform at a
manager level, but they're notlooking after people.
(17:13):
They can just run with theprojects and get it done.
Maybe join the old client call.
And then for a senior manager,we've got a strategist and then
for a head off, we've got anaccount director.
So what the team can really seeis that.
Along these pathways is aparallel IC route and it comes
with that same, reward, samesalary bands.
It's just differentexpectations.
(17:35):
and I can dive into what thesecareer packs look like if
they're available you like.
Harv Nagra (17:38):
Absolutely.
This is super cool to me thatyou've got these parallel
streams going.
Please tell us more.
Zoe Blogg (17:44):
Nice.
So yes, the career packsactually, you know, stole a
little bit from corporate.
So my partner works at a bankand I think they're very good at
having certain levels like A, B,C, D, H, etc.
Harv Nagra (17:55):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (17:56):
So I looked over there at what they've done with
their leveling system and if youcan visualize the career pack
it's broken down into threeboxes across the top and three
down the left hand side and thiscan be changed depending on your
agency.
So along the top is levels, soyou could call it A, B, C, but
I've called it On Appointment,Competent and Experienced.
(18:16):
And with those levels comes asalary bracket.
So everyone in the agency canclearly see if I was to join
this role On Appointment, Istart on X.
And if I was to become reallyexperienced in this role, and
this means, you know, nohandholding doing my job day to
day to the, top ability youmight land on Experienced.
Harv Nagra (18:34):
Right.
Okay.
Zoe Blogg (18:34):
And on the left hand side, split down into company
understanding, behaviors andvalues.
And then the bit that reallychanges is the role specific.
So what you need to do in thatrole.
So be it a tool, a certainskillset, the way you
communicate with clients andeverybody on the agency is
placed in a pack, they're veryclear on what level they're on,
(18:55):
and they can see also, which Ithink is really important, packs
across the other roles and maybeif they wanted to do a sideways
move.
So what we actually did inJanuary was move digital PR
execs to be content execs.
And those career packs reallyaligned.
It was very similar companyunderstanding and behaviors.
So all they had to work towardswas the role specifics.
(19:16):
So they did that, and movedacross.
So it has worked really well forus.
It's reduced a lot of questions.
People understand what they'reworking towards and they can go
into their one to ones withtheir managers, with certain
points that they want to discussor work on to get them to that
next level.
Harv Nagra (19:32):
Amazing.
I haven't seen this done in sucha meticulous way.
The fact that the ICs have thatclear progression visible and
they know what they need to doto get to that next level, I
think is, what's often missing.
And creates this kind of anxietythat, okay, I don't have line
management responsibilities, butwhere am I going to go next
(19:52):
here?
And it feels maybe like a bit ofa dead end sometimes.
So super, super interesting.
Zoe Blogg (19:58):
It's really good and it has as I say really helped
with retention because beforeyou might get people looking
elsewhere, or, also lookingelsewhere also looking if they
wanted to be a manager and theyfelt all the manager positions
were full because they You're anagency where they're promoting
all the top performers intomanager roles and you can't get
those positions.
So actually broadening out theopportunities for the team, you
(20:19):
know, in operations, I wouldmuch rather be paying a handful
of specialists doing their joband experience level.
And then have a solid managerthere than having people keep
leave and I'm having to replaceit at exec level So it has been
really beneficial to have thatfor sure.
Harv Nagra (20:34):
Excellent.
All right.
So let's talk about performancereviews and performance
management.
I see the occasional articlesaying that you should be
ditching performance reviewsaltogether.
I don't know if I completelyagree.
do you think they're important?
Zoe Blogg (20:50):
Short answer.
Yes.
I do think they're importantI've also read many an article
so many different linkedin postsand got sucked into that You
know who needs them who needs tospend the time, but actually I
have settled on if you carve outthat time and provided they're
done, right really does help.
As long as they're not acheckbox exercise, you can get a
lot of value from leading them.
(21:10):
Mm.
Harv Nagra (21:11):
It's not good to have the checkbox exercise
because you're just wastingeveryone's time.
On the other hand, I alsounderstand people's fear of the
labor involved.
So I think there's things thatneed to be done to make it feel
as light as possible, but at thesame time, it is a really
important exercise for thebusiness and for the individual.
Zoe Blogg (21:32):
It's super important, especially as you say, if you're
getting value add at the bottomof it and actually doing
something with that information.
So as you said, there's acheckbox thing.
So making sure you're not doingthat and you're actually carving
out the time and listening andhaving a genuine conversation.
But then I think the questionis, what are you then doing with
that information afterwards andmaking sure managers can see it
(21:54):
being used.
Harv Nagra (21:55):
Hmm.
Zoe Blogg (21:55):
We actually run through, I say, we our lovely HR
manager, Fiona runs through andlooks at themes that come out.
Of those appraisals and thenbuilds a bit of an action plan.
And we have focus groups withmanagers to make sure we're
getting that done.
Harv Nagra (22:08):
Excellent.
So that leads us to our nextquestion where I think you've
made quite a few optimizationsto your own annual review
process.
So, in order to get that towork, what have been the kind of
biggest challenges and what haveyou done to overcome some of
those?
Zoe Blogg (22:24):
The biggest one a hundred percent is time.
You always hear in agencies, Idon't have enough time.
I don't want to be doing this.
I've got client pitches comefirst.
When can I fit this in?
Harv Nagra (22:34):
exactly.
Zoe Blogg (22:35):
I've had it in previous roles where I've been
chasing for months.
By which point it's was thereactually any point in leading
this review because I neededthis data back in april, you
know.
Harv Nagra (22:44):
Hmm.
Mm
Zoe Blogg (22:45):
i've really tried to streamline it.
I think the three key challengesare time, varying experience
that your managers might haveand an issue of trust as well,
especially in smaller founderled companies What are my
managers saying to my staff?
Do I trust what they're saying?
so I have tried to go throughand answer all of these so I
think time We've really strippedthat down to look at twice a
(23:09):
year slots.
So we look at running them inApril and October, and we just
use a really simple platformcalled Charlie HR.
Within that I've gone throughand I've taken out any mention
of salaries.
Harv Nagra (23:22):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (23:22):
sometimes line managers can be put in
uncomfortable positions, tryingto answer that.
I've really led the appraisalwith six questions sort of, you
know, what value have you addedto the company?
Harv Nagra (23:33):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (23:33):
Where do you see yourself in the next three
months those sort of questions?
So I know they're all being ledin the same way.
Harv Nagra (23:39):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (23:39):
I think a great thing about Charlie HR, which
honestly, I was a little bitunsure of initially, but I've
come round to it, is that itprompts you to fill out the
questions first.
So the employee will answer thequestions and the manager will
answer the questions and bothwill be able to see that
conversation in Charlie.
And then the time is booked inso i've asked to keep them to
(24:01):
about 30 minutes 40 max But whatreally helps is all that
information is already incharlie, you can see what each
other has said about one anotherand it's unbiased as well
because you've been separatedFrom that person.
And it speeds up theconversation So you're really
focusing on smart goals andputting that information down
and really the manager canlisten In those meetings,
(24:22):
they're not scribbling away.
So I think really it's justimportant that we're keeping the
reviews simple and impactful andtime efficient.
we know what managers are askingand they know what they can and
can't say in those reviews andemployees know that as well.
Harv Nagra (24:35):
So twice a year, and then in terms of kind of setting
objectives, does that come outof those conversations or how
does that work?
Zoe Blogg (24:43):
So I always encourage line managers to reach out to,
day to day managers and get abit of a view of how the
employees are working, but wework towards a SMART goal
system.
Harv Nagra (24:52):
You were saying?
Zoe Blogg (24:53):
Charlie prompts you to fill in three objectives and
ideally line managers are doingthat off the back of career
progression pathways, the oneswe spoke through earlier.
So you can see where saidemployee is in the competent
role.
You can see what they need to doto get to experienced.
And my advice to managers, asyou pick out like one company,
understanding maybe one behaviorand two, role specific, and then
(25:16):
they can work on building outsmart goals.
And they've already had trainingand how to do those.
Harv Nagra (25:21):
Right.
Zoe Blogg (25:21):
they're pretty consistent across the board and
that gets rid of that trustissue because I have found
sometimes CEOs I've been in anagency where the CEO took all of
them on themselves and weretrying to lead these appraisals
because their team was saying, Idon't have time.
They didn't trust that themanager was gonna give someone a
10 K pay rise and sort of runoff with objectives.
(25:43):
But then, you know, the CEOdoesn't know what's happening
day to day with the person.
They can't really giveconstructive feedback.
So I've really found it helpfulto structure those appraisals,
have set times, set questions,max.
And I know for sure all mymanagers are trained in the
basics.
They know how to set a SMARTgoal and all the information is
in the career pack.
So you can't really Go wrong.
Harv Nagra (26:05):
That is really interesting.
But why then twice a year for anexercise that people might
already be feeling isoverwhelming once a year?
why do you think that's soimportant?
Zoe Blogg (26:15):
think it's super important, especially as we're a
four day week, to make sure theteam are really productive and
they've always got a new goal towork towards.
And I feel like honestly, andOctober came out of, you start a
new year, you settle in.
So by April, you've got theheadspace and time to do that.
And for October, really, it wasleading up to the Christmas
break, making sure, in the lastquarter, we're giving all we
(26:37):
possibly can and hitting all ofthose goals.
But I think six months really isenough to be on track.
But also have an idea of a newgoal.
And the team constantly feellike they're progressing towards
something new, something more,they're not staying stagnant.
Um,
Harv Nagra (26:53):
Hmm.
Zoe Blogg (26:53):
I think.
any more than that, you end uprunning the risk of these
routine check ins that, end upbeing tip box exercises.
So I'm not saying you can't havea quick 15 minute with your team
outside of these, but theseperformance reviews are purely
on how are you doing in yourrole?
Say you're on appointment, howdo you become competent?
And I really think it'simportant to do that before a
(27:15):
year is up, to be honest.
And salary reviews, like Imentioned, are completely.
Separate.
So you're not getting into allof that.
You're purely talking about howcan I be better in the role I'm
in.
Harv Nagra (27:25):
You mentioned why it's important to take the
salary reviews out of thoseconversations and I think that's
fair.
But, how do you then handlethese?
Zoe Blogg (27:35):
So with our salary reviews, it's something new,
actually, that I've been doingat this agency for the last year
and a half now.
Harv Nagra (27:41):
Okay.
Zoe Blogg (27:42):
and I run talent mapping exercises with the
senior leadership at the end ofevery quarter.
So I am a complete sucker for agood playbook.
So of course there's a careerdevelopment playbook that goes
alongside this.
So the team know when I'mlooking to review salaries and
they know that the next monthafter that, review would be the,
update in pay.
(28:03):
So if anyone was to put themforward to say like March, they
would know that April would bewhen that's all approved in the
budget and they might get theirincreased pay.
Harv Nagra (28:12):
hmm.
Zoe Blogg (28:12):
The reason I do this is one, because I've been a
manager myself in appraisalswhere it's ended up being all
about pay, and not about generalperformance or where the agency
is going.
And it completely distracts theagency.
From the conversation.
And sometimes as an earlymanager, you can feel really
uncomfortable.
Harv Nagra (28:29):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (28:29):
and you're actually a bit worried to go into these
sessions and sometimes you canpanic and say something on the
spot like, Oh yes, I'll put thisforward.
And you regret that you've saidthat and you actually wanted to
give, some constructivefeedback.
So I've taken that out.
and I find Once a year sometimesisn't enough.
Sometimes, especially in thoseinternship roles or junior
position roles, people do moveup relatively quickly.
(28:51):
And if you're in a startupagency, sometimes, you know, you
need to move people through theranks as well.
I'd say Essentially with thembeing at the end of every
quarter the entire team is veryclear on how our compensation
process works They know how toput themselves forward for said
review And then I can do thatmyself for senior leaders and
(29:12):
I'll look at key information.
When was their last pay rise?
When were they promoted last andwe can try and be proactive
about it.
And that proactivity is alsoreally helpful retention.
I think the last thing I want isfor a key a star, player to be
looking for another role becausethey didn't know how and when
they could grow.
and then we're almost counteroffering when they come to us
(29:35):
saying they're leaving.
So I'm pretty confident withthis process, knowing that I'm
paying everyone what I feel theydeserve to be paid.
I'm on top of it and we don'thave top team members waiting an
entire year or more for a salaryincrease.
Harv Nagra (29:49):
Super interesting.
So it doesn't necessarily meanthat a certain individual would
be, set up for four pay rises ina year, but just that you have a
more frequent cycle of reviewsin case you need to bump
somebody up because of X, Y, Zreason.
Zoe Blogg (30:09):
yeah, definitely.
I would say we've not had anyonecome forward for four pay rises
in a year.
Although, you know, if someonewas working through really
quickly, I wouldn't be againstdoing that if they were hitting
all the boxes.
But yeah, it just allows usreally to remain proactive, to
keep on top of when people arebeing paid, what they're after
that way.
And also, I suppose on the flipside, A year can sometimes get
(30:30):
long if we're doing them everyquarter As an employer some i've
had sometimes people go a yearand a half Maybe two years
without a pay rise, but theyunderstand where they're sat.
What level they're at and whatthey need to do to get more and
it's allowed me as an anemployer to pull out that
timeline a little longer becausethey know i'm reviewing every
(30:52):
quarter Um, and it doesn't meanyou're having those
conversations every quartertheir name might not come up Um,
or they might not put themselvesforward, but everybody knows
that time slot is there and theycan do that.
So it has actually helped us toreduce the conversations.
We've not actually had as manypeople come forward as I thought
we might.
Mm And that proactive approachis actually more often than not
(31:13):
the way I end up doing things.
It's often me coming to peoplesaying, you know, it looks like
you're working around here afterspeaking with your manager.
This is what we're gonna moveyou on to.
but yeah, there are benefits forthe employer as well.
I think if you're doing themonce a year, people almost
expect to receive an increase,at that time every single year.
And a big one for operations aswell as it helps with the P and
(31:36):
L because our bumps are spreadout across the year.
You're not getting these hugelump sums in May when I've given
everyone, a 10% increase.
So there's some real benefits tothe approach so far.
Yeah.
Harv Nagra (31:47):
I haven't heard anybody having those frequent,
increments for review, but I candefinitely see the benefit, so
well done.
And I think, with thesequarterly reviews, it puts the
onus back on the individual.
They know what they need to do,whereas in the annual thing, it
becomes a really almost like adesperate hope for everyone that
I hope this is done.
Whereas now you're saying, youknow what you need to do to get
(32:10):
to that level.
So, you know, do it.
Zoe Blogg (32:14):
There have definitely been more productive and
thoughtful conversations thathave come around for it when
people have put themselvesforward.
And I do say as well, alwayshave your line manager backing.
So anyone that's puttingthemselves forward, they've
spoken to their line managerfollows up and says, yes, I
agree with this.
And it's just, it's a mucheasier conversation.
And as you say, it puts the onuson the person to get it done.
Harv Nagra (32:34):
Do you do any external benchmarking on
salaries?
Zoe Blogg (32:37):
Yes, so in our career progression playbook, we note
that in February every yearwe'll do a benchmarking
exercise.
So unless anything major happensin the economy, February is a
good time for us to sit back andreview.
So I do collate all thesebenchmark reports.
I think there's one literallycalled the benchmark report in
agencies that I get together andwe've got a few key external
(32:58):
recruiters we use that I mightreach out to and say, Hey,
What's going in the market?
What are you seeing right now inthe agency?
How does this sound to you?
I do find you tend to have to gowith your own sort of
information first And thenthey'll come back and a bit of
finger in the air and where thatsits So we do make an effort to
do that.
I would say specifically forroles like digital PR.
(33:19):
It's really hard Because theroles are very different at
different agencies.
It's quite niche.
So it's a lot easier to find,you know, graphic designer
rates, maybe developer rates.
But when you're really gettinginto what it means to be a tech
SEO or digital PR, I think someof that does have to come from,
your own understanding of theteam as well.
So yeah, a bit of a mix in termsof what we do, but it's all
(33:40):
transparent for the team.
And I do encourage people tocome to me if they've seen a
resource with a certain setbudget.
to come to me and highlight thatbecause one of the difficulties
we have is we're spread all overthe UK.
So there's London salary andthen there's where I am, Leeds
salary, it's very differentunfortunately,
Harv Nagra (33:57):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (33:58):
to work out a balance there as well.
Harv Nagra (34:00):
Mm hmm.
First of all, Zoe, you'vethought of everything so I need
to get a copy of theseplaybooks.
This sounds amazing.
I love that, how thorough youare about things.
I mean, I'm gonna go on a, justa very quick tangent.
that whole thing about like theLondon salary versus the rest of
the country.
If someone moves out of thecity, is that then adjusted?
(34:22):
Have you ever had to deal withthat kind of situation?
Zoe Blogg (34:25):
That's a very good question we've had it the
opposite way Yeah.
So I've had people move toLondon.
And then flag they've moved andthis is what they've seen.
This is London salary Bystandard we do try to go on
London rates because that'swhere agency was established So
I guess then it puts people likeme in a fortunate position where
(34:46):
i'm on more of a London salaryBut I'm based in Leeds, but I
guess that is my own choice.
And then, it gives people thefreedom to move around.
So I've definitely had it theopposite way, but we wouldn't be
in the habit of, reducing rates.
And I think it's also importantto highlight, we're four day
week.
We don't work Fridays, but ourpay isn't prorated either.
it's the full salary.
So very lucky
Harv Nagra (35:07):
Yeah.
Amazing.
So a couple of questions now,first is you mentioned being
fully remote and the other isfour day work week.
So fully remote, sometimes Ihear, four day work week in an
agency I don't hear very oftenat all.
So congrats on that.
Tell us a bit about both ofthose.
Have you always been fullyremote and when and why did you
(35:29):
decide to do the four day workweek?
Zoe Blogg (35:33):
no, we've not always been fully remote, that came out
of COVID.
silver linings from a time thatI know was difficult for many.
Mm The agency grew rapidlyduring that time from around 20
ish to 55 people.
And rather than expand theoffice space that they had, in
London, the team went fullyremote because we saw that we
could do it.
(35:53):
And then the 4 day week camefrom our founders, Shia and
Naomi.
They are huge on well being andjust having that work life
balance because they started theagency to get out of roles where
they perhaps felt like theydidn't have that freedom or
autonomy and they were working.
Rather than living, so theyinitially started that.
(36:13):
I think one of the things we'reknown for at Reboot is our
experiments.
And we've got a whole page ofthat on our website.
The different SEO experiments welead, but also culture
experiments.
with the 4 day week.
yeah, Shire is extremely dataled and, as am I and Ops and
it's increased our productivityby, it was 702 percent on the
Harv Nagra (36:32):
Wow.
Zoe Blogg (36:33):
that we did it and it's settled at around 306, I
think we're on now.
so the numbers speak forthemselves,
Harv Nagra (36:39):
That is incredible.
Zoe Blogg (36:41):
go back anytime soon.
Harv Nagra (36:42):
very cool.
Well done on that.
And what a perk for people aswell, as in terms of a benefit,
it's hard to match when you geta three day weekend every week.
Zoe Blogg (36:52):
Exactly.
I would really struggle to givemy Fridays
Harv Nagra (36:55):
Yeah.
Zoe Blogg (36:56):
now.
I think I've got used to iteventually.
Harv Nagra (36:58):
Exactly.
so Zoe, this has been reallyinteresting and lots of
inspiration there about thingsthat you're doing really well
that hopefully the rest of uscan take something from and
emulate.
But if anybody wants to pickyour brain and hear from you
and, get some advice, where canthey reach out to you and learn
a bit more?
Zoe Blogg (37:16):
So the best platform really is LinkedIn.
that
Harv Nagra (37:18):
Mm hmm.
Zoe Blogg (37:20):
I've also been experimenting with TikTok
actually.
So
Harv Nagra (37:23):
Oh, cool.
Zoe Blogg (37:24):
fractional Zoe is my handle.
Harv Nagra (37:26):
Oh, nice.
Zoe Blogg (37:27):
or you can visit Reboot online and send me a
direct email through there.
Harv Nagra (37:32):
Excellent.
Very good.
We'll put links to all of theabove in the episode notes.
Zoe, such an inspiration.
thank you so much for beinghere.
And, I look forward to speakingto you again soon.
Zoe Blogg (37:43):
Amazing.
Thank you for your time.
It's been great.
And yeah, catch up soon.
Harv Nagra (2) (37:47):
how good is Zoe?
You know you're an OPS nerd whenyou get excited talking about
tables laying out jobresponsibilities.
But seriously, I thought all ofthat was so interesting and so
well executed.
There was so much great stuffZoe was doing That I'm going to
recap it for you here.
First, she has a plan fortraining new line managers,
(38:07):
including her own line managerplaybook, but also puts them on
external training in addition tothe management training days
they hold in March in house.
She has a career pathways packfor each role, including that
matrix I was referring to amoment ago.
Next for each manager role, shehas a corresponding individual
contributor role.
(38:28):
I can't be the only oneimpressed with that.
That is so good.
Then onto performance reviews.
She runs those twice a year Andsalaries get reviewed four times
a year.
That is incredible.
You don't need to scribble downnotes.
Sign up for the handbooknewsletter at scoro.com/podcast,
where we'll send you a cheatsheet of the takeaways from each
(38:50):
episode, so you've got somethingto reference.
Now, who do you know that wouldbenefit from hearing today's
conversation on career paths andperformance reviews?
Please send them the episode andask them to listen and
subscribe.
And if you haven't already andenjoy listening to The Handbook,
please rate the podcast onApple, Spotify, or wherever you
(39:10):
get your podcasts.
I'll be back with the nextepisode soon.
Thanks so much.
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