A Perspective Shift of Death, Dying, and the Afterlife Practical: Part 1 with Death Midwife Kim Stravers

In this episode of The Hanged Woman Podcast, host Julienne Irons opens the door to a conversation that many people avoid: death, dying, and end-of-life care.

Julienne is joined by death midwife and advocate Kim Stravers, who shares her personal journey into death care and offers practical, compassionate insights on preparing for death. Together, they explore the roles of death doulas and death midwives, how to plan for the end of life, and how to lovingly support those in transition.

They also reflect on the cultural and emotional layers surrounding death, encouraging listeners to move beyond fear and approach the subject with tenderness, honesty, and care.

✨ This is The Hanged Woman Podcast, where perspective is power.

🔗 Connect with The Hanged Woman Podcast: Instagram → @TheHangedWomanPodcast & @3ofCupsHealing Website → The Hanged Woman Podcast Temperance Energy Healing → Learn More

🕊️ Connect with Kim Stravers: Instagram → @nightrosedeathcare Website → KimStravers.com Linktree → Kim’s Offerings

🎶 Theme music by The Spacies → Instagram: @thespacies

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey Seekers, just a heads up.
This episode contains open and honest conversations about death, the dying process, and end of life care.
We discuss real life examples of death, including emotional and practical aspects of what happens when someone dies.
While these topics are shared with care and compassion, there may be sensitive or triggering for some listeners, please take care as you listen and feel free to pause or return when you're ready.

(00:24):
Hey there, fellow Seekers, and welcome to the Hang Woman Podcast.
I'm your host, Julienne Irons.
And I'm gonna be honest, this month's perspective shift is gonna be a tough one because we're diving into death, dying in the afterlife.
We have an incredible lineup of guests, including Joél Simone Maldonado, AKA, the grave woman.
Joél is a licensed mortician who specializes in black bodies, and she's gonna walk us through what happens to our bodies after we die.

(00:51):
And a lovely Rachel Erin Basio, a medium and spiritual healer who will help us answer the question of, is there really an afterlife? And if so, what's it like? Y'all, these women are so absolutely fascinating and they offer such valuable perspective shifting insight you will not wanna miss.
But first we're gonna talk about the thing that scares me the most, and that is the dying process.

(01:14):
We're gonna find out what it's like, how to prepare for it, and how we can be less afraid of it, if that's even possible.
So as I was doing my research for this episode, I learned that in nearly every indigenous culture, someone in the community held space for the dying.
Someone who knew how to anoint the body, soothe the spirit, and guide the living through grief.
But of course, colonization, industrialization, and the medicalization of death stripped that away, and that's where the modern death doula comes in.

(01:41):
The term death doula didn't actually enter the public vocabulary until around 2003, but the role, it's ancient.
This week, we're gonna ground ourselves in the practical side of death with Kim Stravers, a death midwife and fierce advocate for reclaiming death as a sacred human and deeply personal transition.
She's here to walk us through what death care can look like.
When instead of fearing it, we actually learn to embrace it.

(02:04):
Welcome to the Hanged Woman Podcast, where perspective is power.
Let's get into it.
Hey, fellow Seekers.
I'm taking a quick pause from the show to share something really close to my heart.

(02:25):
And honestly, the only reason you're even listening to this podcast right now, it's 3 of Cups.
My sisters and I created 3 of Cups, an Irons Sister's mission of love as a space for healing, beauty, growth, and community because we believe life is meant to be full, rich, and abundant in every way.
We offer all kinds of ways to support you, like energy healing, heart-centered art, plant-based medicinals, even marketing that will help enhance your brand's presence in the world.

(02:50):
Because wherever you are in your journey, we wanna help you feel seen, supported, and empowered.
So if you're looking for something to help fill your cup in whatever way you need, come join us.
Follow us on Instagram @3ofCupsHealing, or explore all of our offerings at 3ofCupsHealing.com.
Because Seeker your cup deserves to be full.
And now back to the episode.

(03:18):
Just a heads up guys, before we start the episode, this is gonna be part one of a perspective shift with Kim Stravers.
We're gonna have part two delivered to you guys next week.
Enjoy.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me on.
Delight to be with you this morning.
I'm so happy to talk to you and sit down with you.

(03:40):
You are allowing a dream to come true for me, so thank you.
Oh my goodness.
That just fills all the chambers of my heart.
Thank you for saying so.
I'm really inspired and feeling very invigorated by the conversation that we had when we met and started to talk about having this conversation in a more developed way.
Yeah.
So I am very happy to be able to contribute my lived experience, my knowledge, my perspective to this topic.

(04:05):
Amazing.
So let's just dive right in.
I know there's a couple of different ways that we talk about end of life caregivers.
I have death doula, I have death midwife.
Can you talk a little bit about the differences between the terms of your job? Absolutely.
So I think it really comes down to what the individual practitioner prefers for themself and then how their community may wish to describe them.

(04:34):
The variance comes from.
I think historically, we have been companioning people at end of life since the moment humans, entered the scene.
Yeah.
So how we have perceived that role how involved or uninvolved people are in terms of working with people to.
Manage the last stage of their existence as a human on this planet can differ from culture to culture.

(05:00):
And so I think it really just comes down to, as all things do, language being so malleable and so evolutionary that in an organic way it just arises that we have different terms for different kinds of things.
So the same way that we might say that someone in one community is a healer and in another community they have a title like Doctor for example.

(05:22):
I think the same kind of principle applies for death workers.
You might hear Death Midwife, you might hear Soul Companion, you might hear guide, you might hear death tender, you might hear death doula, or you might hear instead of death, end of life.
So I think that really is one of the more distinguishing features between the way that people might perceive what it is that we're doing and what is the space within which we're working.

(05:49):
So folks who are.
Maybe more predisposed to calling themselves, say a death doula or a death midwife might be coming from a place of focusing more on the moment of transition and things coming to a close sort of at that moment.
So it's almost for me, the way that I perceive it as like folks who are calling themselves deaf doulas, deaf midwives, are looking toward the moment of conclusion and people who call themselves end of life doulas, for example, might be looking more from a perspective of the space before.

(06:27):
That moment arrives.
We work in both, we work both sides of the veil both sides of that point of transition.
But I think it's very interesting to consider the implications of the language that we choose to describe the work that we do and the role that we have.
Yeah, absolutely.
So can you just walk us through what a death doula does? How does your work support the dying and their loved ones? Absolutely.

(06:51):
So the work of a death doula traditionally, and it will of course differ from practitioner to practitioner and community to community, slightly depending on individual and community needs, values, perspectives but generally we would describe ourselves as non-medical folks who accompany people through the process of dying and addressing death.

(07:15):
So that means maybe some.
Aspects that incorporate some spirituality, some grappling with emotions, relationships, social connections.
A little bit about maybe what is going to happen to the body physiologically as we get closer to death depending on the circumstances that surround it.
Maybe what you want to think about in terms of body disposition or services that you might wish to have a hand in planning for after your demise.

(07:42):
We might sometimes call that remembrance projects or legacy work.
When we extend that into things like I'd really love it if my golf buddies would put on an annual tournament in my name after I die to raise money for colon cancer research.
Or I would like to gift all of the recipes that I have.
Collected throughout the course of my lifetime and have them bound into a family heirloom, passed down a bowl, book that my, my kids, my grandkids, my nieces, my nephews, my friends, my neighbors, whomever can then, bring that into their homes and remember me by, looking at my handwriting on the page and cooking the things that I liked to cook for and with them.

(08:20):
So we really provide support that is holistic.
And as one of my teachers, Angie Buchanan, who is the woman through whom I received my death midwifery certification, she likes to say that death midwives are the water that flows between the boulders that are the medical side of dying and the funeral industry.

(08:44):
So we are really there to keep things moving continuously.
To be navigating around what is already present.
So we're not trying to move those boulders.
We're not trying to also remove those boulders, and we are not trying to be those boulders, but we are really there to help, to smooth things out, is how I like to think about it.

(09:06):
We are complimentary to what hospice care provides and palliative care provides.
We are complimentary to what say a funeral arranger or a funeral director or a pre-need person might provide in terms of say, services.
But we are not looking to replace or overrule any of the decisions or opportunities for decision making or realms of experience or approach that come from these very well established lanes that are also extremely important in people's lives as they're facing their end.

(09:39):
Do you call yourself a death doula or a death midwife? I call myself a death midwife, but I also answer to death doula.
I also answer to end of life doula.
I answer to whatever you would like to call me.
None of the terms that I have seen in this space make me feel negatively.
So I'm open to all of them.
But I do have death midwife in my website.

(10:02):
I have it on my business card.
It's what I tend to call myself in day to day.
But all terms are welcome.
So what originally drew you to death Work To have this type of job, it doesn't just come from nowhere.
What drew to death work is complex as I believe it is for most people I've encountered in this space.
For me, I did not grow up as a person who thought she would become involved.

(10:26):
In death in any significant way other than experiencing it myself and attending say, the funerals of people I love who passed on before me.
I didn't grow up thinking like I'm gonna become a mortician.
I didn't think I was gonna become a funeral director.
I didn't think I was gonna be, working as a celebrant, any of these things.
But then death started to arrive in a really loud way around 2017.

(10:51):
So in January of 2017, my younger brother, Michael, my only sibling, was killed in a car accident.
That was, as you can imagine, a shock and unexpected and quite tragic.
We were extraordinarily close.
So this was not a sibling from whom I was estranged or had strained relationship.

(11:11):
This was my go-to one of my.
Closest people.
I had very similar stories with that.
My sister passed at 35 from a brain aneurysm, so I definitely understand the shock of it.
Yeah.
And my brother was 36, so they were even very close in age.
So for me, it was not just the cold water in the face shock of now this person that I have, I had counted on being in my life until the end of it would no longer be able to be present with me in the ways I had become accustomed to.

(11:45):
It wasn't just the grief, it wasn't just the anguish.
It wasn't just, and I say just with air quotes around it because none of those things are to be diminished.
It arrived in a way that I didn't realize it at the time, but started to awaken something in me that had already been growing, I think from the time I was a small child.
And that was this.

(12:07):
What felt to me at the time, strange peace and calm around the idea of death and the struggle that people who survive, someone who has died experience in its aftermath.
I found myself in the subsequent years, suddenly being inexplicably drawn to read more about death and dying.

(12:32):
I remember reading from Here to Eternity.
There's that great book by Kaitlyn Dowdy.
She's so extraordinary and that book really gripped me.
It was this, she went on this.
For folks who haven't read that book, she went on this really remarkable journey throughout the world to just study what death looks like in cultures all over the globe.
So she had the experience of being a mortician in Los Angeles, but she was seeking how people engage with death and honor their dead and also prepare the bodies of their dead in other continents, in other countries in places that were unfamiliar to her.

(13:09):
And it really opened my eyes to this incredible breadth and depth of hair and honor that people have been participating in and passing down, through their families and through their communities and their cultures for millennia.
It was so striking to me the variance, all of the different ways that you can do this.

(13:34):
So I remember reading that and I believe it was probably about 2018 during this time also, my best friend Melissa had been diagnosed with liver cancer.
We were navigating this together.
She had been a dear friend of mine for something like 20 years, and we had traveled together.
We had for brief periods of time lived together.

(13:55):
I knew her family very well.
We were pretty well family.
I would consider her, a sister to me.
So this was another big shock of death approaching from a different direction.
So I had lost grandparents as a child.
I had experienced death by suicide of a dear friend.

(14:15):
I had experienced death by motor vehicle accident of a friend when I was in high school.
Throughout the course of my life as a younger person, I had definitely been around death.
I had attended wakes and funerals and masses and burials and celebrations of life and all of these things.
But I had yet to encounter someone who was my age, who was diagnosed with a life limiting illness.

(14:37):
So walking beside her on this path to help her.
Understand for herself what was coming and how she wanted to prepare for it, I think really woke up in me to an even bigger degree, my capacity to be with the chaos and remain calm and feel compelled to give what I could give in service to the person who would be asking me for my assistance.

(15:04):
So it really was a transformative experience.
Like I remember she had undergone a routine stent replacement in the hospital in the fall of 2019, and she suffered a microscopic, imperceptible at the time, Nick, to her hepatic artery in surgery.

(15:27):
So it wasn't discovered until several hours later when she had gone home to her dad's place that she was bleeding internally to it Startling.
Volume.
So they rushed her down to the hospital and I got the call.
She had been intubated.
She had been, put under medically induced coma.
They were trying their best to stop the hemorrhaging, and they were thus far unsuccessful.

(15:50):
So I got the call from her family essentially saying, can you come? You should come.
We're not sure she's gonna survive this.
So I threw three days worth of clothes and my toothbrush into my truck.
And I drove from Phoenix to Los Angeles, and as soon as I stepped into the hospital room with her, it was very small and it was packed with dear friends and her family and medical professionals.

(16:15):
And I stepped in there and it felt so thick with just worry, concern, fear, confusion, disorientation grief, anger, frustration, all of these intense emotions and helplessness, a lot of helplessness.
And I just remember walking in there and something in me saying, there's a place for you, or that I knew I could trust.

(16:42):
What was coming up for me was that she needed an anchor and that maybe I could be this anchor.
So I thought I would stay a few days and say goodbye to my beloved friend, but she was able to recover from this incident and I wound up staying for five weeks at her family's request.
And then when we were able to bring her outta the anesthesia, it was also her request that I stayed with her.

(17:06):
So in the space of those five weeks, we.
Transitioned her out of the anesthesia.
We got her stabilized in the hospital.
We prepared her for return home to her family.
And then while I was staying with her there, I was doing things like helping her make follow-up doctor's appointments and driving her for blood work and grocery shopping for her, helping her with some body care, cooking for her, and just being with her, just lots of conversation and trying to help her get her mind around what does this mean? What are the implications of this big shift in your health status? How much mirror is death now than it was before? And what do you wanna do to plan for that? How do you wanna be here in your dad's house? This is where you're gonna be now for the, at least the next several months.

(17:53):
What can we do to make this something that feels optimal to you? How can you be comfortable here while still recognizing that it's your dad's home? How do we think about things like.
The bigger picture paperwork.
Did you get your will finished? Did you get your, is how do you feel now about the choices you've made in your advanced medical directive? Should we revisit those choices? What do you wanna do for fun? What's important to you? We forget that, right? We forget the fun.

(18:29):
Like we can still have fun.
Yeah.
It's so critical.
That is so fascinating to me.
'cause it's like we have to find joy.
We can't just be one dimensional.
There has to be like fun and laughter.
I remember that when I was in the room with my sister and she was, brain dead and there were still some moments of laughter.
Yes.

(18:50):
Yeah.
It's natural.
I think, particularly what I learned through my experience with Melissa, because she was such a.
Vibrant person.
She traveled, she did what she wanted to do.
She was so bold and she was so passionate about the life that had been given to her and just milking it.
She was a never say no kind of person.

(19:12):
She would, fly to France to go see Anderson P She would go with friends on a trip to Italy.
She would go visit visit her brother in Asia.
She would take a trip with me to Iceland.
We would, she would just do whatever she felt called to do.
She would still try to be in Jackson Hole every winter to be snowboarding 'cause that was so important to her.
And that was a home for her for decades.

(19:32):
So she really was such a squeeze the juice out of life person that it was a good reminder to me that doesn't have to go away when someone is contemplating the end, or the end is starting to approach a lot faster than we thought that it would.
In returning home from the experience I had with her, I was with my therapist and I have been in action and adventure sports media for the last, it's about 25 years now.

(19:57):
And the media landscape has changed dramatically in the last 10, 15 years, particularly with the advent of social media and now how people build reputations as journalists and what seems to be important and how media is crafted to exist in this new environment in which we're consuming it.
I was starting to feel less relevant, less excited about it, still wanted to be in it, but was recognizing a sea change was coming from me and I didn't know where I was gonna go and I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I had.

(20:27):
At some point taken out my phone and had begun to type into the notes app, just like full on midlife crisis, by the way.
I was in my early forties.
So really just who am I, what's important to me? What do, what is my life like now? And I was really struggling to come up with anything that felt definite and concrete.

(20:48):
But helping people was one of the things on the list.
And when I went to go see my therapist and I was talking with this about her and also telling her about the experience I had with Melissa, I almost didn't say it, but I'm so glad I did.
I looked at her and I said, listen, I know there's a such thing as a life coach.
Is there a such thing as an end of life coach? And she just smiled and she got goosebumps.

(21:10):
And she said, hell yes.
And she pushed me into this, universe of training programs and webinars and, exploration opportunities around what it could mean to be companioning somebody at the end of life to help them prepare in the same way that a life coach is.
Like, where do you wanna go? Who are you? Where do you wanna be? How do we resource you? Those kinds of things.

(21:34):
So similarly in some regards the work of a doula is, just at the other end of that spectrum, the same way that we say that we have birth doulas on one end and we have death doulas on the other.
We are providing similar types of care on either of the bookends of our lives.
So that was really the genesis of me stepping forward and exploring what it might be to do this for people outside of my personal circle and expand it into my community.

(21:58):
Wow, that is that's so fascinating.
So let's talk about.
The death experience because I hear the concept of a good death versus a bad death.
Is there such thing as a good death? Is there such thing as a bad death? Or how are we supposed to look at the end of our life in that way? That's such a, that's such an interesting question to me because I think the answer is different for everyone.

(22:25):
And if there's anything a doula does it is to support the self-determination and autonomy of the dying person to define that for themselves.
So I don't think that there is a categorical definition of a good death or categorical definition of a bad death.
It's a shades of gray situation.
However, I like to tell people that not only do I not know what a good death is for you.

(22:51):
Even if you describe it to me, I can't guarantee that's what you're gonna experience.
So I try to move away from value-based language when I talk about someone's dying process and the experience that others around them are having in that context.
So rather it be good or bad, because those terms are so often used to evaluate our performance.

(23:14):
And I think the last thing folks at end of life need is another bar to clear.
I prefer to just have conversations that get to what's important to you, what feels like the right move for you? What honors your values, your morals, your relationships, how do we move toward what would feel best for you? While recognizing that frankly, there are only so many things that over which we have any control at end of life, and even then those things can go sideways.

(23:45):
Or suddenly become inaccessible to us because the body is so unpredictable in so many ways.
We know we're gonna die.
We don't know when prognosis are given.
Let's say to somebody who has a life limiting illness, they change.
People are reevaluated for hospice eligibility every six months in that model of care.

(24:06):
It's not like your doctor says you've got six months and then you're dead in six months.
Sometimes you're dead in six weeks, sometimes you're dead in six years.
It really is so variable.
.2727273So I think that rather than saying someone can or should have a good death, I try to emphasize stability, comfort, quality, joy, connection. 232 00:24:31,872.2727273 --> 00:24:37,950.9090909 You know what is the essence of your life? We often like to say that the way that someone has lived their life is the way that they will die. 233 00:24:38,610.9090909 --> 00:24:51,150.9090909 So for a quick example, if you were the kind of person who's very private, you are likely not gonna be wanting to throw the doors open and have everybody in the neighborhood come in and say they're goodbyes to you at the end. 234 00:24:51,150.9090909 --> 00:24:54,660.9090909 If you're a private person, you're a private person, you'll stay that way most likely through the end. 235 00:24:54,660.9090909 --> 00:25:09,740.9090909 People do have dynamic changes in their personalities, revelations that cause them to behave differently, but it's less frequent, than somebody just really continuing who they are in a really fundamental way tends to just carry them through all the way to the exhalation of the final breath. 236 00:25:10,40.9090909 --> 00:25:26,520.9090909 So I think really when we talk about planning, trying to anticipate what it's gonna be like, there are so many ways that we can have conversations in a non-medical way as well as for the medical folks in the medical realm about what can we do to achieve your. 237 00:25:27,375.9090909 --> 00:25:28,215.9090909 Goals of care. 238 00:25:28,215.9090909 --> 00:25:36,95.9090909 Goals of care is something that's used in the more medicalized version of deaf care, but I think it's still applicable to, folks who are working with doulas. 239 00:25:36,95.9090909 --> 00:25:49,675.9090909 It's what do you wanna achieve when you're in the room, in your final days and hours? Are you the kind of person who wants the blinds opened at sunrise every morning? Because it's really important for you to have that first light come in. 240 00:25:50,425.9090909 --> 00:26:15,215.9090909 Are you the kind of person who slept till noon every day and you have blackout curtains and you'd rather be in a darker room? What gives you more ease? What makes you feel most you? What increases your comfort and your stability? I think that the more we can offer options for people to be soothing for themselves, the things that satisfy those elements. 241 00:26:15,665.9090909 --> 00:26:20,495.9090909 Then we can perhaps create a path of more ease into the transition. 242 00:26:20,735.9090909 --> 00:26:31,15.9090909 That doesn't mean the transition's gonna be easy, death can be very painful and very messy, but we can do what we can to smooth the road as best that we can. 243 00:26:31,285.9090909 --> 00:26:37,535.9090909 And so that's achieved, can change, moment to moment, day to day, depending on what is happening with the dying person. 244 00:26:38,15.9090909 --> 00:26:46,855.9090909 So if you are a person that's not necessarily been diagnosed with something and you're not given a time span, you're just going about living your life. 245 00:26:46,855.9090909 --> 00:27:05,405.9090909 We have, wills that are mainstream, but are there any other things that we should be doing to prepare for our deaths, whether it's a sudden death or like a illness or something like that? So many things that are available to us that we don't talk about as a culture in the United States because we're so afraid of death. 246 00:27:05,825.9090909 --> 00:27:09,575.9090909 We have been acculturated to think that it is to be avoided at all costs. 247 00:27:09,625.9090909 --> 00:27:13,645.9090909 Look at how we have become acculturated to perceive aging. 248 00:27:15,685.9090909 --> 00:27:19,945.9090909 It's not allowed, you're not allowed to get old, you're not allowed to have wrinkles. 249 00:27:19,945.9090909 --> 00:27:27,865.9090909 You're not allowed to gain weight or get gray hair or slow down, none of those things, right? That's like unacceptable. 250 00:27:27,865.9090909 --> 00:27:40,515.9090909 We have entire industries dedicated to anti-aging and that says a lot about what we think about death and dying death is something that, mysteriously happens and we don't think about it until we absolutely have to. 251 00:27:40,665.9090909 --> 00:27:52,205.9090909 And even then we tend to freeze, I think, in a lot of ways and look to third parties to tell us what to do because we haven't done the work of investigating it for ourselves. 252 00:27:52,745.9090909 --> 00:27:53,495.9090909 But we know. 253 00:27:54,20.9090909 --> 00:28:01,990.9090909 In some ways, I think what we would want for ourselves, so from a basic practical standpoint, you have your will, which deals with your estate. 254 00:28:02,140.9090909 --> 00:28:08,880.9090909 So any of your possessions, your cash, your material items, real estate, those kinds of things. 255 00:28:09,180.9090909 --> 00:28:11,920.9090909 Investment accounts, who gets the stuff is your will. 256 00:28:12,460.9090909 --> 00:28:19,0.9090909 And then there is what is sometimes called confusingly a living will, which is your advanced medical directive. 257 00:28:19,450.9090909 --> 00:28:30,130.9090909 Those are the decisions that you make about your physical body and life sustaining treatments that you do or don't want in the event that you are unable to make those choices for yourself. 258 00:28:30,910.9090909 --> 00:28:35,260.9090909 This is where you elect a healthcare, a durable healthcare power of attorney. 259 00:28:35,650.9090909 --> 00:28:40,180.9090909 So that's a person who will make decisions on your behalf should you become incapacitated. 260 00:28:40,900.9090909 --> 00:28:43,930.9090909 You also will elect a financial power of attorney. 261 00:28:43,930.9090909 --> 00:28:48,270.9090909 So who's gonna take care of your, your money affairs if you can no longer advocate for yourself. 262 00:28:48,630.9090909 --> 00:29:04,100.9090909 And in some states, like here in Arizona, we also have a durable mental healthcare power of attorney, so that if you are determined to be incapable of making decisions for yourself for a mental health reason, than somebody steps in and makes those decisions on your behalf. 263 00:29:04,370.9090909 --> 00:29:14,510.9090909 So every state will be different in the types of paperwork that they consider to be that packet of living will, some states call them a living will, Arizona does, other states do not. 264 00:29:14,750.9090909 --> 00:29:22,470.9090909 From a paperwork perspective the big elections are should I become unable to advocate for myself today. 265 00:29:23,655.9090909 --> 00:29:37,305.9090909 What choices would I want to make? Would I want CPR? Would I want to be intubated? Would I want artificial hydration, artificial nutrition? So those kinds of interventions, it's really based on what you want right now in this moment. 266 00:29:37,815.9090909 --> 00:29:41,565.9090909 These are organic documents and they will change over time. 267 00:29:41,895.9090909 --> 00:30:00,750.9090909 If you are diagnosed with a terminal illness you may decide at a certain point, I no longer want to have CPR, I no longer want to have artificial nutrition or hydration, or I want it up until point X that I will describe to you at that point you are to remove me from life sustaining treatment. 268 00:30:01,320.9090909 --> 00:30:06,570.9090909 So these are decisions that will change depending on what is happening with our lives and our bodies over the course of time. 269 00:30:06,870.9090909 --> 00:30:18,490.9090909 But you can start this the second that you are, in the United States, if you are decisional, meaning if you are, mentally and developmentally well, and you are decisional and you are responsible for your own body. 270 00:30:18,820.9090909 --> 00:30:27,910.9090909 When you turn 18, you should start making these decisions for yourself because we never know, as you and I both know, my brother didn't have any of this. 271 00:30:27,940.9090909 --> 00:30:28,960.9090909 He was 36. 272 00:30:28,960.9090909 --> 00:30:31,790.9090909 He is on top of the world, he owned a home. 273 00:30:32,0.9090909 --> 00:30:33,950.9090909 He was successful in his businesses. 274 00:30:34,100.9090909 --> 00:30:35,270.9090909 He had relationships. 275 00:30:35,270.9090909 --> 00:30:36,110.9090909 He had friendships. 276 00:30:36,110.9090909 --> 00:30:37,400.9090909 He had this very full life. 277 00:30:37,400.9090909 --> 00:30:39,320.9090909 Death was the last thing on his mind. 278 00:30:40,160.9090909 --> 00:30:43,280.9090909 But then he died and no one expected it. 279 00:30:44,120.9090909 --> 00:30:50,600.9090909 And so while we didn't have to make any of the medical decisions, we still had to figure out disposition. 280 00:30:50,990.9090909 --> 00:31:04,40.9090909 We had to figure out what would he have wanted for a funeral? Would he have wanted a funeral mass? Would he want us to enter his ashes? Would we want to sprinkle them somewhere? We don't really know. 281 00:31:04,640.9090909 --> 00:31:15,420.9090909 What happens to his home, to his motorcycle, to his truck, to his investments? There is no will, so we had to go through probate, which is lengthy and expensive. 282 00:31:16,125.9090909 --> 00:31:29,85.9090909 Having these decisions made not only can give you the opportunity to contemplate your mortality, which I think is a really lovely way to just be living your life as a daily practice, just a moment every day to remember that you too shall die. 283 00:31:29,925.9090909 --> 00:31:39,885.9090909 What does that mean for you? How does that change the way that you wake up in the morning? But it also can relieve some of the stress and the burden that people fear leaving for their families when they die. 284 00:31:40,125.9090909 --> 00:31:46,965.9090909 It's one way to take some stuff off their plate so they don't have to guess, because that guessing can create its own type of anguish. 285 00:31:47,565.9090909 --> 00:31:53,985.9090909 It really can complicate the grief when you have no idea, because you've never talked about it, what somebody would want for themselves. 286 00:31:55,575.9090909 --> 00:32:23,260.9090909 And then everything that goes around that, that can be maybe a little bit softer, right? Do you wanna die at home? If you're, if it's an option for you, would you like to die at home? Or would you prefer to go into some kind of like an assisted living situation? Some people want to be removed from their home and they say I don't wanna die in my home because I don't want my partner to wake up in the house every day in the same place where I died. 287 00:32:24,10.9090909 --> 00:32:28,690.9090909 Or I don't wanna burden my children with my full-time care when I become in feeble. 288 00:32:29,410.9090909 --> 00:32:31,810.9090909 So I really feel strongly about going into assisted living. 289 00:32:31,840.9090909 --> 00:32:34,60.9090909 Other people are like, I was born in this house. 290 00:32:34,120.9090909 --> 00:32:35,230.9090909 I'm gonna die in this house. 291 00:32:35,860.9090909 --> 00:32:37,300.9090909 People can come to take care of me. 292 00:32:37,630.9090909 --> 00:32:39,310.9090909 I'm staying put, you move around me. 293 00:32:40,310.9090909 --> 00:32:41,540.9090909 And all choices are valid. 294 00:32:41,600.9090909 --> 00:32:43,310.9090909 It's just what you want for yourself. 295 00:32:44,480.9090909 --> 00:32:47,570.9090909 And then from there it just expands and gets more detailed. 296 00:32:47,570.9090909 --> 00:33:04,860.9090909 And it's do you want your pet in the room? Is there anybody you don't want in the room? Is it important for you to be remembered in a particular way, whether that's a certain type of service, an annual contribution to a research fund, or a community organization. 297 00:33:05,430.9090909 --> 00:33:10,740.9090909 Something that you want people to gather and do in your memory every year, even if it's just having a party. 298 00:33:11,520.9090909 --> 00:33:29,550.9090909 Do you wanna have a living funeral? Meaning do you wanna have a funeral that you get to be with and experience while you're alive? Or do you want that to just be the responsibility of the people who survive you and whatever serves them? These are all things you can begin to think about at any time in your life. 299 00:33:29,880.9090909 --> 00:33:36,300.9090909 The paperwork stuff, I feel that the sooner you can get that completed, you can always update it, but at least that part's done. 300 00:33:36,720.9090909 --> 00:33:39,660.9090909 And then the more expansive thinking around death and dying. 301 00:33:40,440.9090909 --> 00:33:41,280.9090909 It's not easy. 302 00:33:42,525.9090909 --> 00:33:43,815.9090909 It's available to you. 303 00:33:44,265.9090909 --> 00:34:12,485.9090909 And there are people like death doulas, who can do an extraordinary job of creating a space that feels non-judgmental and secure enough for you to say out loud some things that might be difficult for you to say at this point to other people and help you figure out, or help you to arrive in a place where you feel that you can then vocalize these desires to your beloveds, because that's the necessary step, right? It's one thing to know what you want for yourself. 304 00:34:13,385.9090909 --> 00:34:20,225.9090909 It's another thing entirely to announce that to people and say, please do what I wish, not what you wish. 305 00:34:20,825.9090909 --> 00:34:23,825.9090909 It's really hard because there's sometimes conflict. 306 00:34:24,965.9090909 --> 00:34:25,325.9090909 Okay. 307 00:34:25,325.9090909 --> 00:34:28,535.9090909 Seekers, I think this is a really great place to take a break. 308 00:34:28,805.9090909 --> 00:34:30,95.9090909 We'll be right back with the episode. 309 00:34:31,145.9090909 --> 00:34:31,985.9090909 Hey Seekers. 310 00:34:32,525.9090909 --> 00:34:35,495.9090909 So healing isn't always pretty, but you don't have to do it alone. 311 00:34:36,155.9090909 --> 00:34:42,845.9090909 Temperance Energy Healing offers intuitive energy work to support you through life's biggest transitions, grief, change and beyond. 312 00:34:43,595.9090909 --> 00:34:51,245.9090909 Whether you're navigating loss or simply seeking alignment, Temperance, offers grounded support with care, clarity, compassion, and non-judgment. 313 00:34:52,145.9090909 --> 00:34:56,375.9090909 We offer in-person sessions in Marina del Rey and Valley Glen, or remote sessions. 314 00:34:56,375.9090909 --> 00:34:57,815.9090909 If you're outside the LA area. 315 00:34:58,805.9090909 --> 00:35:07,465.9090909 Book a session, remember who you are, and fill your cup at 3ofCupsHealing.com. 316 00:35:09,605.9090909 --> 00:35:11,405.9090909 And now back to the episode. 317 00:35:12,765.9090909 --> 00:35:23,925.9090909 I can't, as you're talking, I can't help feeling anxiety come up for me in contemplating all of these things, like it feels like a heavy task to do. 318 00:35:23,955.9090909 --> 00:35:32,565.9090909 That's also very scary to contemplate what do I want when I die, and I can understand why it's so necessary. 319 00:35:34,185.9090909 --> 00:35:36,195.9090909 I guess this is gonna be a two part question. 320 00:35:36,255.9090909 --> 00:35:57,805.9090909 The first part is how do we even begin that process and then how do we let go of the fear of it? 'cause it's, it, I'm literally feeling like I can feel my insides closing up and I know that I'm not alone in that, Not by far, so many folks share this death anxiety. 321 00:35:58,105.9090909 --> 00:36:00,445.9090909 So firstly, if you'd like to take a big breath together. 322 00:36:00,475.9090909 --> 00:36:00,985.9090909 Yes. 323 00:36:01,765.9090909 --> 00:36:02,455.9090909 Okay. 324 00:36:02,725.9090909 --> 00:36:03,355.9090909 In and out. 325 00:36:10,405.9090909 --> 00:36:10,825.9090909 Yes. 326 00:36:10,855.9090909 --> 00:36:11,635.9090909 Goosebumps. 327 00:36:11,735.9090909 --> 00:36:14,885.9090909 Your body's telling you something by giving you an anxious response. 328 00:36:15,585.9090909 --> 00:36:18,945.9090909 It's telling you that this is gonna be difficult and there's some stuff to grapple with. 329 00:36:20,295.9090909 --> 00:36:20,895.9090909 That's okay. 330 00:36:21,225.9090909 --> 00:36:21,885.9090909 That's normal. 331 00:36:22,255.9090909 --> 00:36:27,655.9090909 Even the people who appear to be the most involved with death and dying or the best adjusted to it. 332 00:36:27,755.9090909 --> 00:36:32,315.9090909 If you think I'm not on some level afraid of the unknown, you are wrong. 333 00:36:33,245.9090909 --> 00:36:35,495.9090909 I have trepidations around my own death. 334 00:36:35,525.9090909 --> 00:36:36,455.9090909 Of course. 335 00:36:36,505.9090909 --> 00:36:44,725.9090909 Few people view death as something that they are looking at with zero reservations. 336 00:36:45,185.9090909 --> 00:36:48,365.9090909 Like it's a field full of flowers that they're just gonna, go peacefully into the night. 337 00:36:50,375.9090909 --> 00:36:54,645.9090909 Part of that, I think is acculturation, part of it I think is our media representations of death and dying. 338 00:36:54,805.9090909 --> 00:36:59,855.9090909 There are a lot of factors our family heritage around that, our faith traditions around that. 339 00:37:00,15.9090909 --> 00:37:01,605.9090909 Our own personal experiences. 340 00:37:01,605.9090909 --> 00:37:09,985.9090909 I like to say that every death that we have witnessed informs the next step that we will experience, and ultimately this, some of those comes home to roost when it is our turn. 341 00:37:10,345.9090909 --> 00:37:19,315.9090909 So the way that we perceive and have experienced death and dying up to that point really plays a key role, I think, in how we are experiencing it for ourselves in that moment. 342 00:37:20,575.9090909 --> 00:37:27,35.9090909 But in terms of how do you begin this process and then how do you come to grips with this? I think that they're interrelated. 343 00:37:27,305.9090909 --> 00:37:35,945.9090909 So I think that this kind of work, you can titrate it depending on your own comfort or the other side of that anxiety level. 344 00:37:37,505.9090909 --> 00:37:39,335.9090909 For me, the. 345 00:37:39,695.9090909 --> 00:37:55,705.9090909 Most valuable practice I have to continue to increase my comfort and familiarity with death and dying is to create a more expansive definition of death, a more expansive definition of dying. 346 00:37:56,125.9090909 --> 00:38:09,175.9090909 So rather than limiting it to the last moments of someone you love or yourself dying, and then that's the end of their life and it really gets attached to the grief experience. 347 00:38:10,135.9090909 --> 00:38:16,345.9090909 For me, death is one of an infinite number of transitions. 348 00:38:18,145.9090909 --> 00:38:33,955.9090909 You're crossing a threshold, you're changing state, you're moving from here to there, and we experience that and we have the opportunity to witness that every single day if we start to pay attention and look for those things. 349 00:38:34,540.9090909 --> 00:38:43,940.9090909 So for me, my personal practice as frequently as I can, I aim for at least once a week more if the weather's good and I can to walk the land. 350 00:38:43,970.9090909 --> 00:38:46,940.9090909 There's a trail that's near my house that I love to visit. 351 00:38:47,600.9090909 --> 00:38:50,40.9090909 It's walkable in about 45 minutes. 352 00:38:50,40.9090909 --> 00:38:52,10.9090909 So it's a, it's a reasonably short loop. 353 00:38:52,490.9090909 --> 00:38:54,350.9090909 It's not particularly strenuous. 354 00:38:54,650.9090909 --> 00:38:59,960.9090909 It's in a mountain preserved, so it's beautiful and I've been walking it for years, so I know it intimately. 355 00:39:00,650.9090909 --> 00:39:04,880.9090909 And when I go out to walk the land, I connect with what's happening seasonally. 356 00:39:05,750.9090909 --> 00:39:09,290.9090909 I connect with what's happening weekly, monthly, daily. 357 00:39:10,340.9090909 --> 00:39:14,840.9090909 So I'm noticing because I pass the same uas every time I go out on that trail. 358 00:39:14,930.9090909 --> 00:39:25,280.9090909 Right now it's May the uas are budding and they're starting to bloom, but a couple of months ago, they just look like the Soros that you see represented. 359 00:39:25,310.9090909 --> 00:39:30,520.9090909 Most of the time when you think of a cactus, no flowers, just these big green shapes. 360 00:39:31,360.9090909 --> 00:39:36,250.9090909 But they bloom, and then those blooms turn black and they die and they fall to the ground. 361 00:39:37,390.9090909 --> 00:39:38,230.9090909 That's transition. 362 00:39:38,290.9090909 --> 00:39:39,880.9090909 You are watching dying. 363 00:39:40,270.9090909 --> 00:39:44,650.9090909 You're watching birth life, dying and death in plant life. 364 00:39:45,160.9090909 --> 00:39:46,450.9090909 You see it in animals. 365 00:39:46,450.9090909 --> 00:39:55,930.9090909 Anytime that you kill a fly in the house, you're participating in the dying experience, you're witnessing a death, you're causing it true, but you're in death, right? Yeah. 366 00:39:56,110.9090909 --> 00:39:57,610.9090909 Our cells turn over every day. 367 00:39:57,910.9090909 --> 00:40:02,360.9090909 So even in an internal way, we're experiencing transition continually. 368 00:40:02,580.9090909 --> 00:40:08,130.9090909 The synapses and our brains, right? We're creating new neural connections and other neural connections are breaking apart. 369 00:40:08,830.9090909 --> 00:40:15,100.9090909 From an internal systems perspective, for people who might be a little bit more, let's say, like scientifically minded, that's one way to go about it. 370 00:40:15,730.9090909 --> 00:40:16,720.9090909 Or to think of it like. 371 00:40:17,785.9090909 --> 00:40:20,375.9090909 Water can be, a solid, a liquid and a gas. 372 00:40:20,435.9090909 --> 00:40:39,465.9090909 It's just a state change, right? So that's one way to think about transitions and for people who are more nature minded, going out and observing the seasonal patterns even keying in on say like one particular bush, right? Even a rock, maybe at certain times of the year you're seeing lichen or moss on that rock. 373 00:40:40,185.9090909 --> 00:40:48,255.9090909 And then at other times of the year, it's changing shape, color, size, or dying off completely, right? So just looking for the changes and just remembering that change is everywhere. 374 00:40:48,255.9090909 --> 00:40:49,335.9090909 Change is constant. 375 00:40:49,935.9090909 --> 00:40:51,615.9090909 Change is transition. 376 00:40:51,615.9090909 --> 00:40:52,605.9090909 Transition is death. 377 00:40:52,815.9090909 --> 00:40:53,805.9090909 Death is transition. 378 00:40:54,885.9090909 --> 00:41:09,545.9090909 Whether or not you believe that we are transitioning into another realm, a reincarnation into a different life no matter what your feelings or thoughts are about the barrier, there is a threshold that we cross from being a living body to a dead body. 379 00:41:10,760.9090909 --> 00:41:25,650.9090909 So I think if we diffuse the concept of dying into the world around us, that can help us realize that firstly, this is a universal experience, so it's not all on your individual shoulders. 380 00:41:26,760.9090909 --> 00:41:32,470.9090909 And that is a natural experience and it's also an unstoppable experience. 381 00:41:32,765.9090909 --> 00:41:37,975.9090909 And there's no way, no matter how hard you grip onto this life, there's no way to hold onto it forever. 382 00:41:38,245.9090909 --> 00:41:45,145.9090909 So relaxing the grip and realizing that you are in perpetual motion towards your end, and that's okay. 383 00:41:45,505.9090909 --> 00:41:53,755.9090909 So just going back to the practical aspect of preparing for the dying process. 384 00:41:54,790.9090909 --> 00:42:11,465.9090909 How do we start the process? How do we start the preparation? Like you talked about what we need to do, but how do we even what's step one? What do, how do we do to help me? Okay. 385 00:42:12,645.9090909 --> 00:42:16,580.9090909 So often it is your secretary of state. 386 00:42:16,670.9090909 --> 00:42:22,90.9090909 You can either go to your state's, Department of Health Services or the Secretary of State's office. 387 00:42:22,210.9090909 --> 00:42:38,240.9090909 Or if you have an area Council on aging, any of those resources should be able to point you to your state's individual forms for the practical stuff, your advanced medical directive, naming your powers of attorney those kinds of elections, that kind of paperwork. 388 00:42:38,450.9090909 --> 00:42:41,0.9090909 Some states you can file your paperwork with the state. 389 00:42:41,0.9090909 --> 00:42:44,910.9090909 It's not a requirement, but it's an option if you wanna make sure that someone's got it. 390 00:42:44,970.9090909 --> 00:42:50,850.9090909 And also your paperwork should be, your advanced medical directive should be on file with your physicians. 391 00:42:51,120.9090909 --> 00:42:57,540.9090909 So once you complete that, it's not just for you to keep in the house, your doctors should know so that they can provide you the kind of care that you want. 392 00:42:57,960.9090909 --> 00:43:09,370.9090909 There are also websites like Compassion and Choices dot org, that's a nonprofit that can give you a state by state link to figure out what forms are available in your state. 393 00:43:09,790.9090909 --> 00:43:11,980.9090909 Just know that a couple of things here. 394 00:43:12,30.9090909 --> 00:43:14,130.9090909 I think compassion and choices is great. 395 00:43:14,180.9090909 --> 00:43:15,140.9090909 There are also. 396 00:43:16,250.9090909 --> 00:43:19,670.9090909 Companies like My directives.com, 397 00:43:20,420.9090909 --> 00:43:21,710.9090909 five wishes. 398 00:43:22,100.9090909 --> 00:43:26,950.9090909 There are websites that are dedicated to helping walk you through this process with prompts. 399 00:43:27,280.9090909 --> 00:43:34,150.9090909 So you fill it out on a screen and it auto fills the forms for you, and then you can have them sign and then notarized so that they're legal. 400 00:43:34,550.9090909 --> 00:43:41,840.9090909 So there are ways to get some assistance with this if you're not the kind of person who is comfortable sitting down and just filling out a paper form. 401 00:43:42,50.9090909 --> 00:43:42,320.9090909 Okay. 402 00:43:43,850.9090909 --> 00:43:49,700.9090909 Something that I think is important to keep in mind that I didn't know or I didn't really think about until my mom was dying. 403 00:43:50,900.9090909 --> 00:43:58,10.9090909 My mom was dying in Ohio, so she had been an Ohio resident for two decades. 404 00:43:58,10.9090909 --> 00:44:05,810.9090909 I think by that point, Ohio's choices are different than Arizona's choice. 405 00:44:05,930.9090909 --> 00:44:07,880.9090909 So the choices with which I am familiar. 406 00:44:08,405.9090909 --> 00:44:21,310.9090909 We have a, you're either a full code, meaning, if I go into cardiac arrest or respiratory arrest, that means do everything, employ all the lifesaving measures possible from a medical perspective to keep my body alive. 407 00:44:22,90.9090909 --> 00:44:27,400.9090909 Or there's a DNR a do not resuscitate order, which means no life sustaining treatment. 408 00:44:27,460.9090909 --> 00:44:31,360.9090909 And, you can make some elections in between like I do or don't wanna be intubated. 409 00:44:31,360.9090909 --> 00:44:31,960.9090909 For example. 410 00:44:32,470.9090909 --> 00:44:48,40.9090909 However, in Ohio there's this kind of half measure where your DNR, it's like it's a halfway point between a full code and a DNR, where like your DNR status doesn't kick in unless a particular series of events has occurred. 411 00:44:49,240.9090909 --> 00:45:03,700.9090909 So you can choose that option where you're like, try it until it gets here and then stop resuscitation efforts rather than saying never try any resuscitation efforts with a do not resuscitate versus do everything with a full code. 412 00:45:05,140.9090909 --> 00:45:05,980.9090909 That was new to me. 413 00:45:06,60.9090909 --> 00:45:14,640.9090909 So it was something I needed to learn in order to help my mom make the decisions that she wanted for herself in the context of her cancer. 414 00:45:15,270.9090909 --> 00:45:26,700.9090909 And it's important, I think, for those of us who might have residences and other states or happen to spend a lot of time visiting somebody. 415 00:45:26,700.9090909 --> 00:45:40,670.9090909 So maybe, I don't live in Ohio, but if I had been going out there for six months out of the year just to hang with my mom and my stepdad, then it would do me well to have an advanced medical directive prepared for Ohio. 416 00:45:40,670.9090909 --> 00:45:57,610.9090909 Also, not all states are necessarily reciprocal, so it's important to just like drill into your specific state's regulations and their paperwork, and then also the state in which you are spending a lot of time and then start asking questions within those departments to figure out. 417 00:45:58,360.9090909 --> 00:46:15,870.9090909 Do you honor my a MD from Arizona when I'm in Pennsylvania? Or do I need to have Pennsylvania paperwork for you to honor my choices if I were to suddenly succumb to, a life-threatening event while I'm there? And I've been there for several months and, I'd be comfortable dying there. 418 00:46:16,170.9090909 --> 00:46:21,245.9090909 So it really is a little bit tricky because it's not a clean federal, thing across the board. 419 00:46:21,245.9090909 --> 00:46:22,265.9090909 It is state by state. 420 00:46:22,745.9090909 --> 00:46:31,745.9090909 So locating through your Secretary of State's office area Council on Aging or Department of Health Services is a good place to start looking for that information. 421 00:46:32,75.9090909 --> 00:46:32,765.9090909 Amazing. 422 00:46:33,35.9090909 --> 00:46:35,225.9090909 And then having them notarized is gonna be important. 423 00:46:35,545.9090909 --> 00:46:47,125.9090909 You are, there's another kind of form that comes into play when you have a terminal illness and you have elected to not pursue any life sustaining or resuscitative treatment. 424 00:46:47,515.9090909 --> 00:46:53,605.9090909 So if you have that DNR in place, there's another form that's called a pulses or a M form. 425 00:46:53,785.9090909 --> 00:46:58,795.9090909 Either a physician's orders for life sustaining treatment or medical orders for life sustaining treatment. 426 00:46:58,975.9090909 --> 00:47:04,645.9090909 It's called different things in different states, but that is a doctor signed order, signed by your physician. 427 00:47:04,645.9090909 --> 00:47:05,635.9090909 It's signed by you. 428 00:47:05,965.9090909 --> 00:47:13,195.9090909 That's usually on like an orange piece of paper that gets put up on the fridge that clearly states don't do CPR. 429 00:47:13,325.9090909 --> 00:47:14,435.9090909 Don't intubate me. 430 00:47:15,5.9090909 --> 00:47:26,555.9090909 So that if somebody calls 9 1 1, because people do panic, even at end of life, even when people are on hospice, they still sometimes call 9 1 1 because it's habit and EMTs come into the door. 431 00:47:26,795.9090909 --> 00:47:32,525.9090909 They're looking for that piece of paper because if they don't see it, they're gonna do everything because that's their job. 432 00:47:33,155.9090909 --> 00:47:38,45.9090909 So the physician's order means they absolutely have to do what it says on the piece of paper. 433 00:47:38,45.9090909 --> 00:47:43,325.9090909 They don't make elective decisions for you, but that doesn't come into play unless you are terminally ill. 434 00:47:43,955.9090909 --> 00:47:44,495.9090909 Got you. 435 00:47:44,595.9090909 --> 00:47:47,205.9090909 I honestly I wish that they taught us this in high school. 436 00:47:47,305.9090909 --> 00:47:49,555.9090909 The same way they're like, okay, register to vote. 437 00:47:49,555.9090909 --> 00:47:51,295.9090909 You're 18, register to vote now. 438 00:47:51,345.9090909 --> 00:47:53,985.9090909 I wish that they would teach people two things in high school. 439 00:47:53,985.9090909 --> 00:47:56,895.9090909 I wish they would teach them how to fill out these forms. 440 00:47:57,900.9090909 --> 00:48:03,720.9090909 Maybe a little bit about how to initiate these difficult conversations with their family members or their circle of care. 441 00:48:03,720.9090909 --> 00:48:05,580.9090909 Maybe it's not their family, their immediate family. 442 00:48:05,890.9090909 --> 00:48:17,290.9090909 And I wish that they would teach people how to do the basic tasks of caring for someone who is bedbound, because it doesn't matter if you're dying or if you're in a full body cast or if you've got the flu. 443 00:48:17,770.9090909 --> 00:48:42,10.9090909 If somebody can't get out of bed, how do you change the sheets? How do you help them to stay clean and comfortable? These very basic things when someone goes onto hospice service, I didn't grow up knowing how to safely roll another human being to the side and remove the sheet from underneath them and put, the chuck, which is the absorbent layer that goes between the human and the, the sheet and the mattress underneath there. 444 00:48:42,10.9090909 --> 00:48:42,820.9090909 That's changeable. 445 00:48:43,60.9090909 --> 00:48:48,40.9090909 I didn't learn how to do that stuff until I was in the middle of just. 446 00:48:49,315.9090909 --> 00:48:55,975.9090909 Acute grief and confusion and feeling just so imperiled by my mom's rapid decline. 447 00:48:56,545.9090909 --> 00:49:06,175.9090909 All of a sudden she's on home hospice, and now I have to learn how to do all these things with this brain that is just not my usual sharpness. 448 00:49:06,245.9090909 --> 00:49:09,575.9090909 I'm preoccupied, I'm not in a learning brain place. 449 00:49:10,205.9090909 --> 00:49:13,25.9090909 So I wish that they would teach these kind of skills to us when we were younger. 450 00:49:13,655.9090909 --> 00:49:13,865.9090909 Yeah. 451 00:49:13,895.9090909 --> 00:49:19,25.9090909 So that we would be more prepared for, even if somebody is just taken out by the flu. 452 00:49:19,538.604774 --> 00:49:26,648.604774 How does your work differ or compliment the traditional hospice model? Our work compliments the hospice model. 453 00:49:26,648.604774 --> 00:49:29,408.604774 It does not replace it, and it's not a substitute for hospice care. 454 00:49:29,408.604774 --> 00:49:33,588.604774 If hospice care is what somebody wants that is because we are non-medical. 455 00:49:34,218.604774 --> 00:49:35,988.604774 So while there are non-medical. 456 00:49:36,798.604774 --> 00:49:39,288.604774 Staff involved in hospice care. 457 00:49:39,438.604774 --> 00:49:42,828.604774 The primary function of hospice is to look out for the physical body. 458 00:49:43,158.604774 --> 00:50:03,228.604774 So you are assigned a hospice doctor, you're assigned a hospice rn, usually who's your case manager, and you are assigned a certified nurse's aide, right? So you're CNA who comes in to do hygiene care for you on an, usually on an increasing basis as somebody becomes closer to their end and is able to care for themselves less and less. 459 00:50:03,588.604774 --> 00:50:06,198.604774 You also have a chaplain and you also have a social worker. 460 00:50:06,468.604774 --> 00:50:22,8.604774 So while those two folks are not medical in the sense that they're not providing medications or doing body care and they're providing more practical, logistical, emotional, and spiritual care and comfort, we're not there to do their jobs. 461 00:50:22,608.604774 --> 00:50:31,348.604774 So I'm not coming in and saying that I am that I've had a pastoral education and that I am the end all, be all of every spiritual practice. 462 00:50:31,498.604774 --> 00:50:38,398.604774 What I can do is sit with you and pray with you, or worship with you if that's what you desire. 463 00:50:38,608.604774 --> 00:50:41,938.604774 If you'd like some companionship in that process, I am here for you. 464 00:50:42,238.604774 --> 00:50:51,118.604774 But I'm not here to come in and say that I am the chaplain and I'm fulfilling this very specific spiritual role that is like very deep in their training and their knowledge. 465 00:50:51,358.604774 --> 00:50:52,528.604774 Same thing with social work. 466 00:50:52,648.604774 --> 00:50:56,578.604774 So I might be helping you to assess your needs, let's say. 467 00:50:57,8.604774 --> 00:51:00,868.604774 So social workers will help with things like deciding what you want done with your body. 468 00:51:00,928.604774 --> 00:51:18,778.604774 Do you wanna be flame cremated? Do you wanna be acclimated, alkaline hydrolysis? Do you want natural organic reduction? What's that? What's, what is that? Yeah, it's alkaline hydrolysis is a process by which the body is broken down in a solution rather than. 469 00:51:19,183.604774 --> 00:51:23,713.604774 Put into the retort, which is the name of the machine for a traditional flame cremation. 470 00:51:23,953.604774 --> 00:51:35,133.604774 And then there's also what is called natural organic reduction, AKA human composting, where the body is broken down through the microbes that are present in soils and organic matter. 471 00:51:35,313.604774 --> 00:51:38,823.604774 So then you turn into dirt that you can plant things in. 472 00:51:38,823.604774 --> 00:51:40,203.604774 You can grow things in for food. 473 00:51:40,203.604774 --> 00:51:42,513.604774 You can grow them for just aesthetics. 474 00:51:42,843.604774 --> 00:51:55,243.604774 Those are some options, right? You can have a traditional burial where you're in a casket that goes into a vault in a, you're like standard image of what a burial looks like situation. 475 00:51:55,243.604774 --> 00:51:56,623.604774 Or you can have a green burial. 476 00:51:56,623.604774 --> 00:51:59,803.604774 Maybe that means that you're buried in a place that doesn't require a vault. 477 00:51:59,863.604774 --> 00:52:02,773.604774 Maybe that means that you're just in a shroud and you're just in the dirt. 478 00:52:02,803.604774 --> 00:52:05,383.604774 Maybe that means you're in a more eco-friendly casket. 479 00:52:06,13.604774 --> 00:52:07,33.604774 Lots of different options. 480 00:52:07,33.604774 --> 00:52:13,813.604774 So a social worker will be able to tell you, here are your options, and they may help you, let's say, to locate a funeral home. 481 00:52:14,773.604774 --> 00:52:21,463.604774 Services we can do that as well, but they, their resources are much deeper than ours are, and they have relationships. 482 00:52:21,553.604774 --> 00:52:43,573.604774 Typically, the hospice organizations have relationships with people in the community, so they may know more about each individual provider than I would as a doula, but I think the number one thing that we do is reinforce the care that's already being given in those situations, including things like education for the caregivers around the signs and symptoms of active dying. 483 00:52:43,933.604774 --> 00:52:53,103.604774 Meaning what do you look for in terms of changes in the body that can alert you to the fact that you are getting to the stage where someone is going to be very near death. 484 00:52:54,33.604774 --> 00:53:00,873.604774 The nurses are gonna be your go-to from the medical perspective of that, and they will teach you all of these things to look for. 485 00:53:00,873.604774 --> 00:53:03,123.604774 And as doulas, we can come in and reinforce that. 486 00:53:03,343.604774 --> 00:53:09,553.604774 We can be a source of information if maybe your RN isn't talking with you about that yet. 487 00:53:10,153.604774 --> 00:53:11,443.604774 We always point the medical. 488 00:53:12,358.604774 --> 00:53:14,398.604774 Questions back to the medical professionals. 489 00:53:14,858.604774 --> 00:53:28,238.604774 But I think that there are things that we learn in our training that help to act as signposts that we can share with people so that it both reassures them so they're not surprised when someone's breathing changes or they're not surprised when they're noticing a skin change. 490 00:53:28,488.604774 --> 00:53:33,678.604774 But also because it just reinforces it in a cohesive way, information they're getting from these other sources. 491 00:53:34,428.604774 --> 00:53:38,568.604774 But really back to Angie Buchanan's example of the water flowing between the boulders. 492 00:53:38,928.604774 --> 00:53:51,918.604774 I think that the biggest asset that doulas have to offer is our flexibility because we are not covered under Medicare and therefore not covered under the hospice benefit. 493 00:53:52,578.604774 --> 00:54:00,618.604774 We don't work in hospice in a paid capacity in the same way that social workers, chaplains, CNAs, nurses and doctors do. 494 00:54:01,218.604774 --> 00:54:07,873.604774 So while I think that there are administrators now maybe who are running. 495 00:54:08,748.604774 --> 00:54:13,578.604774 Doula programs in hospice organizations that are perhaps paid in that role. 496 00:54:14,178.604774 --> 00:54:20,928.604774 I don't in this moment know of any doulas who are being paid for doula work through hospices. 497 00:54:21,118.604774 --> 00:54:24,808.604774 That doesn't mean that they don't exist, but if they do, exceedingly rare. 498 00:54:24,868.604774 --> 00:54:34,108.604774 Right now, most doulas who are working in the hospice organizations are either just volunteering as volunteers, regular volunteers. 499 00:54:34,258.604774 --> 00:54:47,8.604774 So the doula work that they do is subtle, or they are volunteering under a doula program in a hospice organization where like my badge for one of the hospices I volunteer with says volunteer doula on it. 500 00:54:47,668.604774 --> 00:54:52,168.604774 As a volunteer, I'm beholden to the hospices rules and regulations. 501 00:54:52,228.604774 --> 00:54:54,478.604774 I meet their protocols and their standards of training. 502 00:54:54,908.604774 --> 00:54:59,348.604774 So if they have limits on how much time I can spend with a family, I respect those limits. 503 00:54:59,528.604774 --> 00:55:01,898.604774 But generally speaking, you're more available. 504 00:55:02,508.604774 --> 00:55:05,508.604774 So everybody else who's working in the hospice model. 505 00:55:06,123.604774 --> 00:55:07,233.604774 They have caseloads. 506 00:55:07,893.604774 --> 00:55:10,203.604774 They can see, many different patients in one day. 507 00:55:10,203.604774 --> 00:55:13,203.604774 They can't spend several hours with someone a lot of the time. 508 00:55:13,253.604774 --> 00:55:21,923.604774 Folks who work in hospice, just sidebar some of the biggest hearted, most compassionate, dedicated, incredible humans I have ever met. 509 00:55:22,463.604774 --> 00:55:23,723.604774 I'm so grateful for them. 510 00:55:24,173.604774 --> 00:55:24,773.604774 Incredible. 511 00:55:25,593.604774 --> 00:55:30,613.604774 Really the service they provide I think is for so many people, absolutely indispensable. 512 00:55:30,613.604774 --> 00:55:36,433.604774 I have had nothing but positive experiences with the hospice staff, with whom I have had the opportunity to interact. 513 00:55:36,883.604774 --> 00:55:39,348.604774 But they can only see so many people. 514 00:55:39,648.604774 --> 00:55:40,938.604774 They can only spend so much time. 515 00:55:41,458.604774 --> 00:55:46,408.604774 Your doula can come at your pleasure. 516 00:55:46,408.604774 --> 00:55:52,228.604774 You mesh the doula's availability with your desires and then you settle on an arrangement that works, that's bespoke for you. 517 00:55:52,648.604774 --> 00:55:55,918.604774 So I can come in the middle of the night a social worker's, I. 518 00:55:56,653.604774 --> 00:56:01,153.604774 Not likely to be able to be on call for you at, 10:00 PM on a Tuesday. 519 00:56:01,363.604774 --> 00:56:03,973.604774 Right? There are, there is the element of operating hours. 520 00:56:04,543.604774 --> 00:56:08,173.604774 The nurses are different, there's always somebody available in hospice if you need a nurse. 521 00:56:09,103.604774 --> 00:56:20,683.604774 And it's not to say that people won't make exceptions or step outside that, or that every organization has the same structure, but generally speaking, the doula is there to work with you in whatever way best suits you. 522 00:56:21,133.604774 --> 00:56:22,723.604774 So I can be there more often. 523 00:56:22,963.604774 --> 00:56:25,603.604774 We can have maybe different kinds of conversations. 524 00:56:25,783.604774 --> 00:56:31,33.604774 I can be providing care as the hospice team does as well for the circle of people who surround you. 525 00:56:31,433.604774 --> 00:56:36,793.604774 We can just do things a little bit more flexibly and reinforce the care that you're getting from other people. 526 00:56:37,93.604774 --> 00:56:40,783.604774 Again, we're not there to replace, we're not there to substitute. 527 00:56:41,3.604774 --> 00:56:42,953.604774 And we're not even there to modify. 528 00:56:42,953.604774 --> 00:56:46,488.604774 I'm not there to contradict or modify, a treatment plan or anything like that. 529 00:56:47,28.604774 --> 00:56:49,758.604774 I'm really there to companion you. 530 00:56:50,202.5204595 --> 00:56:56,132.5204595 You as a, you, as a still whole living, breathing, unique individual in the world. 531 00:56:56,672.5204595 --> 00:57:02,312.5204595 You're not a patient, you're not a case, you're a person. 532 00:57:04,862.5204595 --> 00:57:07,112.5204595 So I think this is a great place to pause for now. 533 00:57:07,182.5204595 --> 00:57:14,412.5204595 This is just part one of our conversation with Kim Stravers, and trust me, there is even more wisdom and perspective shifting coming your way. 534 00:57:15,72.5204595 --> 00:57:22,272.5204595 In part two, we're gonna go deeper into the practical side of death, and Kim is gonna walk us through the dying process that drops next week. 535 00:57:22,422.5204595 --> 00:57:25,992.5204595 So be sure to follow, share, and come back for the rest of this powerful dialogue. 536 00:57:26,892.5204595 --> 00:57:28,962.5204595 Until then, hang in there Seekers.