In this episode of The Hanged Woman Podcast, host Julienne Irons delves into the intricate and often hidden world of post-mortem care with licensed mortician and death advocate Joél Simone Maldonado, also known as The Grave Woman.
Together, they explore the physical realities of death, including embalming, decomposition, and body preparation, as well as the cultural history of death care, especially the role of Black Americans in shaping modern practices.
Joél also shares how spirituality and science intersect in her work, reminding us that caring for the dead is about more than science — it’s about dignity, reverence, and respect.
Whether you’ve been curious about what happens after death or want to shift your relationship with mortality, this conversation offers a compassionate, unflinching perspective on a topic too often avoided.
✨ This is The Hanged Woman Podcast, where perspective is power.
🔗 Connect with The Hanged Woman Podcast: Instagram → @3ofCupsHealing Website → The Hanged Woman Podcast
⚰️ Connect with Joél Simone Maldonado (The Grave Woman): Instagram → @TheGraveWoman Website → thegravewoman.com
🎶 Theme music by The Spacies → Instagram: @thespacies
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey seekers.
(00:00):
Just a heads up.
This episode features candiddiscussion about post-mortem care,
the physical realities of deathand funeral industry practices.
We speak with a licensed morticianabout what happens to the body after
death, including processes likeembalming and body preparation.
While these details are shared withrespect and education in mind that may
be emotionally or physically sensitivefor some listeners, please care for
(00:24):
your wellbeing as you listen and takea break if you need to, we'll be here.
Hey seekers and welcome tothe Hanged Woman Podcast.
I'm your host Julienne Irons, andI cannot tell you how excited I
am to be hanging with y'all today.
So if you've had a chance to listen tothe last two episodes, you know that
(00:48):
this theme is a heavy one, becausewe're getting a perspective shift
on death dying and the afterlife.
So the first two episodes, we satdown with death doula, Kim Stravers.
Kim walked us through all the practicalsteps of what we need to do to prepare
for our own deaths, and she alsohelped to explain the dying process
and helped us relieve the anxietythat some of us have around dying.
And next week we're sitting downwith medium, Rachel Erin Bossio
(01:11):
and Rachel's gonna talk to us aboutthe afterlife and help us answer
the question, does it really exist?
But before we cross into the unseen,let's pause and ground into the physical.
So picture this, you've just died and yourbody is getting wheeled into the morgue.
You get all zipped up nice and cozyinto one of those black body bags,
and then rolled into a refrigeratedmorgue door, which I just learned
(01:34):
are called mortuary cabinets.
But what actually happens to our bodieswhen we die, and what happens between
the time of death and the time whenher family sees her body at the wake?
This week on the Hanged Woman Podcast,we're diving into the science of
death and we're joined by Joél SimoneMaldonado, also known as the Grave Woman.
She's transforming the death care industryby centering black bodies, reclaiming
(01:57):
ancestral knowledge, and demystifyingwhat actually happens when we die.
So get ready 'cause thisis gonna be quite the ride.
Welcome to the Hanged WomanPodcast, where perspective is power.
Let's get into it.
(02:17):
Hey, fellow seekers.
I'm taking a quick pause from the show toshare something really close to my heart.
And honestly, the only reasonyou're even listening to this
podcast right now, it's 3 of Cups.
My sisters and I created 3 of cups, anIrons Sister's mission of love as a space
for healing, beauty, growth, and communitybecause we believe life is meant to be
full, rich, and abundant in every way.
(02:38):
We offer all kinds of ways to supportyou, like energy healing, heart-centered
art, plant-based medicinals, evenmarketing that will help enhance
your brand's presence in the world.
Because wherever you are in yourjourney, we wanna help you feel
seen, supported, and empowered.
So if you're looking for somethingto help fill your cup in whatever
way you need, come join us.
Follow us on Instagram@3ofCupsHealing, or explore all of
(02:59):
our offerings at 3ofcupshealing.com.
Be a seeker.
Your cup deserves to be full.
And now back to the episode.
I am so happy to be sittinghere with you right now.
I find you absolutely fascinating.
(03:21):
I find your brain fascinating and Ifind your work really fascinating.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
First can you just tell usa little bit about you, a
little bit about your history.
Okay.
First things first.
My name is Joél Simone Maldonado.
Professionally I amknown as the Grave Woman.
(03:41):
I am a licensed funeral director,embalmer educator sacred Grief
Practitioner, and the founder of theMulticultural Death and Grief Care
Academy, where we focus on culturalintelligence and cultural competency
and end of life, death and grief care.
History.
(04:02):
I was born in England.
I was raised here inBeaufort, South Carolina.
Amazing family.
Pretty much amazing childhood.
I, I. I graduated from high schoolwith my certification as a master
barber, which is a combination betweenmaster haircare and cosmetology.
(04:22):
And from there I went on to collegein Atlanta, Georgia, and from
there into working in a cemetery.
And my path led me to going tomortuary school where I graduated
from Gupton Jones in 2012.
And the rest is literally history.
Wow.
(04:42):
So I wanna start here withthe science behind dying.
Can you walk us through whatphysically happens to a body,
the moments and days after death?
Absolutely.
And I wanna preface this by sayingthat a lot of times we tend to
look at death as a distant friendor a distant relative, right?
But death is always a constant companiondeath walks beside us throughout
(05:05):
our entirety from the time we'reconceived until the time that we.
Experience the succession of life.
And by that literally right nowyou and I are in the dying process.
Our cells are dying, ourbodies are getting older.
We are slowing down in timeand space if we're looking at
(05:25):
that metaphysically, right?
Or we're accelerating towards the big bangor the explosion, which is death, right?
But to answer it more on a commonlevel after someone we'll start with
is pronounced dead or experiences, whatwe call somatic death, which is the
cessation of our brain function, ourheart function, and our lung function.
(05:51):
Those things lead to death.
And we experience that in a varietyof ways, either through sickness,
accident, trauma, sudden shock.
There's literally a millionways to die, if not more.
But.
Here in this country, in our predominantculture, what happens is that the people
that have not only the authority, andI use that word authority, not as in
(06:15):
power, but in knowledge and understandingof how to care for death, are called.
And a lot of times that is the funeraldirector, maybe the police and fire
department or the coroner, and we aretaken into their custody depending
on the manner in which we pass away.
Because there's language is so importantaround this, you have manner of death.
(06:39):
Cause of death and death.
Manner of death.
Meaning how we die if we're in acar accident, if we're in a hospital
bed cause of death, trauma from saidaccident or trauma or result of illness.
We may be taken to the medical examiner'soffice or the coroner where an autopsy
(07:02):
may be performed, and that autopsythen reveals that cause of death.
That's where that language is important.
If that isn't the case, a lot of timespeople are taken into the custody of the
funeral home, where depending on culture,faith, religion, personal preference,
you'll be cared for in a variety of ways.
(07:22):
One of which may be the most commonthat people are aware of is embalmed,
meaning that your blood is removedfrom your body through the embalming
process, through your vascular system.
Incisions are made at variouspoints throughout the body,
depending on the condition causeand manner of death that will best.
(07:44):
Serve to preserve and present yourbody back to your loved ones or
communities, if that's your choice.
The embalming process also involvessomething called setting features where,
if we think about it in Hollywood terms,a lot of times people die so peacefully,
they just die so gracefully and theireyes are closed and they have a cute
(08:07):
little pout and maybe a smile, right?
That is totally antina and anti-gravity.
We die a lot of times with our eyeswide open and our mouths a lot of
times hanging uncontrollably openbecause our muscle function has ceased
to exist, meaning that we are nowsubject to whatever gravity decides.
(08:31):
Our muscles keep our mouth open.
That's no longer working.
Now our mouths are open.
Setting features involves thingslike closing our eyes and giving us
that natural closed eye appearance,closing our mouths and making sure
that, when people come and look atus for the last time, they're not
literally looking down our throat.
And I'm laughing because, the waythat we see death without going behind
(08:54):
the scenes is so interesting to me.
It involves things like, making incisionsa lot of times in the neck or collar area,
in the arms if necessary in the thighs.
And I'm not using medical terminologyhere because I want people to understand
where these incisions may be madeor towards our ankles, depending on
(09:15):
the conditions of our bodies, right?
Most times in our neck and collarand, making those incisions and
then closing those incisions.
That's vascular embalming.
So your vascular systems are yourveins and your arteries, how your
blood moves through your body.
Then you have cavity embalmingwhere we use what's called a trocar.
(09:35):
If any of you have seen plastic surgery,it's the same similar tool that they
use to suction fat from, those areasthat we want a little bit more snatched.
We're using maybe a little bitlonger trocar to embalm and get
embalming fluid into the organs.
So there's a hose, but then that hoseis attached to a long looks like needle.
(10:02):
And so that needle is used toaspirate and aspirate means to
remove by reverse water pressure.
Your fluid from your organs your stomachmatter, your urine from your bladder fluid
and liquid that may be in your intestines.
Like that tool is used to remove body fromfluid from our cavities in our bodies.
(10:27):
If you, someone has an autopsy alot of times their organs, depending
on whether it's a full autopsy or apartial autopsy, partial meaning just
the brain or a certain area of thebody, full meaning the skull cap is
removed, the Y incision is made and.
The cavity is exposed.
Ribcage remove, cavity exposed,and those organs are dissected
(10:51):
and investigated individually.
So a lot of times in the funeralhome, if someone has had a full
autopsy, those organs are returned tous in a bag separate from the body.
And so that cavity embalmingis not necessary in that case.
However, we do treat those organsseparately and then gently place
(11:17):
that bag or whatever receptaclethey're returned in within the body.
Yes.
And when I say returned in thebody, we're not piecing things
back together like a puzzle.
It's a bag, maybe a biohazardbag, and that bag is placed back
inside the cavity and the cavity.
The two flaps of skin that remain from theY incision are then sewn back together.
(11:40):
Is there a scientific reason why we put itback in, or do we do that because it's out
of respect for the person who's passed?
A lot of times it's for respect, and iffor some reason that bag can't be placed
back inside of that person for anotherreason, it will be placed at the foot
of whatever their burial container is.
Whether it is a casket, a cremation box,it'll be placed at the foot of that box.
(12:05):
If for some reason it's notable to be placed back inside.
And so I'm sharing this and goinginto detail about this because not
to be traumatic, I just want peopleto understand that there's a lot of
work that goes into returning yourloved one to you in a way that is
not only presentable, but palatable.
(12:27):
And that is aesthetically pleasing.
Another component.
Once that embalming process is done,for many people that are being viewed
or gonna have a viewing at theirservice, their family is going to see
them, is the cosmetic side, meaningthat we do your makeup we care for you.
(12:48):
We also cleanse.
People's bodies.
We give people baths.
We wash their hair, we clean their nails,we clean their ears, we clean their nose.
We make sure that thereare no eye boogers.
The same thing that you would doto your body as a human being.
Waking up in the morning andgetting yourself ready for the day.
(13:09):
Those same details are done to prepare youto be presented back to your community,
to be cremated, to be buried andprofessionals like myself do that work.
And we do that for every personthat comes into our care.
Unless otherwise specified.
Now, I'm not saying wedo the embalming process.
(13:30):
I'm not saying everyone has the sameexact embalming procedure, even though
the procedure is scientific, the conditionof the body, again, that manner, that
cause and that condition are important.
And they dictate how we're ableto care for them in the way that
we go about caring for them.
People don't just get upand get in the casket.
We have to literally, either with amechanical lift or with physical manpower,
(13:55):
lift them into their caskets after theirdressed, putting their clothes on, their
socks, their shoes, their underwear,their belts, their bras, their jewelry.
We put these things on people, and so Iwant people to understand that there's
so much care that goes into this.
So a lot of times especially intraumatic deaths, we have to do
(14:17):
what's called restorative arts, right?
If someone has been shot in thehead, if there's been an accident,
there's been trauma of any kind.
Maybe someone had cancer thatate away a part of their face,
they were attacked by an animal,and now, there's obvious trauma.
We have to repair that if we're gonnapresent that person back to their
community and to their loved ones.
And through the use of mortuarywaxes, through plasters, through
(14:42):
becoming ingenuity and using thingsthat sometimes we may not think.
Would be used to put someone'sface back together or stabilize a
broken arm or a compound fracture.
We use those things to restore as muchof a natural appearance as possible.
Imagine using a wax, right?
(15:03):
A lot of waxes come in, beigeor brown or white colors.
The ars come in pinks and beige.
And so there's a lot of colortheory in matching skin tones
and complexions and undertones.
Being specific about lip liners so thatwe don't make people look overly animated.
(15:24):
Even something as simpleas closing the eyes.
You just close your eyes.
It's so natural to you, but there'sliterally a formula to closing
someone's eyes when they've passed away.
Number one, because the eyes areopen, we have to make sure that
they're going to remain closed.
It's really old school, but peopleused to use air and alpha, which is
super glue to basically line the bottomlash line and then close the eye.
(15:49):
But the eye is closed.
So the formula for that is that two thirdsof the eye is coming down and one third is
coming up to give that natural appearanceor knowing how to close someone's mouth
so that they don't look like this.
And like, how unsettling would that be?
(16:10):
And so either through suturing Air andAlpha, or honestly with what we call
a needle gun, we can close someone'smouth through injecting wires below
the teeth and above the teeth in thegum line, and then twisting two wires
together to close the mouth or throughsuturing through the bottom of your
(16:35):
jaw, coming up through under your nose,going back down, and then suturing
the mouth closed.
There there's so much scienceand effort that goes into it.
You talked about how you wouldhave to use something perhaps
unique in order to put somebody'sphysical features back together.
(16:58):
Can you give us an example ofsomething that stands out to
you that you've done before?
I can give you several examples, but Ithink the most gentle example and the most
responsible example would be styrofoam.
Using styrofoam to reshape breastthat maybe were lost due to mastectomy
or tissue cotton to stuff, a bralike we did when we were teenagers.
(17:23):
There are other things, but I wouldprefer not to get into those things
because I don't wanna give the wrongimpression about the work that we do.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit about, alittle bit more about the science of
what happens to our body when we die,the moments before death, the moments of
death, and the moments right after death.
(17:44):
What is happening to our bodies?
I am gonna answer this questionto the best of my ability.
I'm not a pathologist ora medical professional.
But from what I understand,there are certain things that
do happen, and I'll focus on thepost death side if that's okay.
There's something called agonal Alger.
We're basically, our body'sheat up shortly after death.
(18:06):
They, there have been studies wherepeople have used those heat sensor
lenses, what are they called?
I can't remember right now, but where,almost like how snakes see, where
they see heat, not necessarily items.
And so there's been research donethat show that our bodies literally
heat up from the inside out.
(18:28):
And to me, that puts me again, when Idescribe death, is that ex accelerating
towards that explosion or big bang.
Almost like a star.
It explodes.
I feel like that's ourselves releasingall of our energy back out into the
cosmos or into the world in some way.
(18:48):
There's also something calledlividity where our blood pools at
the it's pooled based on gravity.
So let's say I passed away in thischair right now, I'd probably lean
over and fall forward or backwards orsidewards, but all the blood is going
(19:09):
to pull in the direction of gravity.
So there'll be some blood, a lot ofblood rush to my feet because it's no
longer circulating through my body.
My heart isn't working anymore,my heart's not pumping.
It's not, your heart is basicallycreating anti-gravity in
your body, so it's no longer.
Pumping the body through my face,through my hands, there'll be a lot
(19:32):
of blood collected at my fingertips.
'cause they'll be hanging down.
And if I fall forward, my face willprobably be dark if they pick me up
from, or when they pick me up, if Ifall forward onto this computer, the
blood that's in my head will rushtowards like wherever my head is laying.
A lot of people think that all of ourbodily functions cease upon death.
(19:56):
But I've picked people up andwhen you move them, they pass gas.
They use the bathroom on themselvesbecause our muscles are no longer
contracting and holding these things inplace, holding our functions in place.
People I. Make what's calledthe death rattle, which
happens before and after death.
(20:18):
And it's basically air escaping ourwind, like our air escaping our throat
and our windpipes and our larynx.
And it's coming up and it's coming out.
It sometimes it sounds like gurgling,
It can be very unnerving when you're inthe van and you're here and Mr. Johnson
in the back and you hit a speed bump or,his body is, rattling around back there.
(20:41):
And I say rattling around.
I don't mean it how it sounds, but, movingbased on what's happening around him.
And you're hearing sounds andit's okay, where'd that come from?
Or you're like, oh mygosh, what is that smell?
It's gas and God knowswhat else coming out.
We also take on after a certainperiod of time, I know people talk
(21:02):
about their loved ones being cold tothe touch we take on the temperature
of the environment around us.
A lot of times, especially afterwe've been refrigerated, which is a
method of slowing down decomposition.
We take on the environment.
So when you saying my loved one feelscold, it's maybe not necessarily
(21:24):
that they're cold, you're not usedto feeling the actual temperature
of the room on someone's body.
Because that heat from ourbody is always moving because
our heart is always pumping.
We're moving and creating energy.
Are there any things that Orian does thatthe average person does not know about?
There's so many things thatmorticians do that the average person
(21:48):
doesn't know about, and they'renot necessarily what you think.
Sometimes we tell people no, thatwe don't think it's a good idea.
You see your loved one maybe in thecondition that they're in, not because we
don't want you to see your loved one, butbecause we care about the way you remember
them and ultimately the choice is yours.
But yeah, we do that.
(22:10):
We hold babies for people that maybeneed to view their loved one alone
and without having to worry about,
holding their baby or they'reshaking so much because they're
afraid of what they're gonna see.
We'll just say, you wantme to hold the baby?
We hand babies to theirmoms to hold one more time.
(22:37):
And as difficult as that sounds, there'snot been one time that I have handed a
baby to their mom to hold one last time.
And they've regretted it.
They've been terrified to do it, butso glad that they did in the end.
One of my students told me we were talkingabout working with difficult families,
(22:57):
and she said something so beautiful to me.
She said, I worked with this family andthe wife complained about everything.
His tie, his hair brush, the way hishair was brushed, his expression.
And she said, what I did was Ihanded her the brush and said you
show me how to take care of him.
You've taken care of him every day forthe last few years and for the last
however many years of your marriage.
(23:18):
And no one is gonna know howto care for him like you do.
So you show me.
So I say that to say, we relinquishcontrol and put you in the driver's seat.
We feed people literally taking foodor bringing food into the office when
we realize that someone's not eaten fordays because they're grief stricken.
(23:40):
We deliver the news sometimes thatpeople's loved ones have passed away.
If they're calling the funeral home,looking for them, or calling around
and saying, I heard this person passedaway, but I haven't been able to
confirm it is, are they in your care?
In, in cases like that there are somefollow up questions because of course we
(24:03):
don't want to give people who shouldn'thave certain information either that we
don't have the authority to give or thatthe family does not want them to have.
So sometimes we have to break thenews to people, which is never fun.
There's so many things that we do.
We're flower arrangers, we're seamstressesand tailors we're, and for that, sometimes
(24:26):
we have to readjust and customize people'sclothes and order to make them fit.
For example, people pass away fromdisease and have been sick for a
long time and maybe the family justcan't afford to buy a new suit,
or this was their favorite suit.
They wore it to our wedding.
They wore it, on our last vacation,whatever, I know we buried my
(24:46):
grandfather in the tuxedo that he worefor my grandparents' 50th anniversary.
And he was swollen due to being onlife support after he passed away.
And so I'm confident that,maybe some alterations were
made to the suit that he wore.
We're hairdressers, we're makeup artists.
We're mad scientists.
(25:09):
We wear so many hats and that'sjust off the top of my head.
We're counselors.
We listen.
We're confidants.
I can't tell you how many times peoplehave come in when someone died and
said, who am I gonna be mad at now?
This person abused me when I was a child.
They raped me.
They sexually molested me,and I've never told a soul.
(25:29):
And that doesn't leave my office.
Or it has never left my officeattached to that person's name.
Or we're security.
Sometimes when a wife finds out herhusband had a girlfriend or a boyfriend,
oh no, this needs to be a television show.
(25:50):
Where's so many different?
Where's Tyler Perry?
There's so many things that we do.
Okay, seekers.
I think this is a reallygreat place to take a break.
We'll be right back with the episode.
Hey, seekers.
So healing isn't always pretty,but you don't have to do it alone.
Temperance Energy Healing offersintuitive energy work to support you
through life's biggest transitions,grief, change, and beyond.
(26:14):
Whether you're navigating loss orsimply seeking alignment, Temperance
offers grounded support with care,clarity, compassion, and non-judgment.
We offer in-person sessions in Marina delRey and Valley Glen, or remote sessions.
If you're outside the LA area.
Book a session.
Remember who you are and fillyour cup at 3ofCupsHealing.com.
(26:42):
I sit here listening to you talkabout this and I can't help but
feel a little bit envious that youweren't the one to take care of.
My sister, Jasmine and I werethe ones responsible for going to
make sure that she was viewablefor her children and she wasn't.
And there were so manythings that I wanted to fix.
I said something to the funeraldirector at the funeral parlor, and I
(27:03):
was like, she doesn't look like her.
Her skin is like 10 times darker.
The wig looks crooked.
I could tell her dress was stuffed.
And so everything just looked wrong.
And I wish that I had somebody likeyou that takes all the care that
you take in caring for people, boththe deceased and their loved ones.
(27:29):
So I really admire you for that.
That is probably one of the mostunique compliments I've ever had.
Thank you
let's get into embalming.
So where and how didembalming actually start?
Embalming started in ancient Egypt andtheir motivation for embalming was circled
(27:50):
around what they to be the circle ofnecessity, which was a 3000 year journey
to around, to and around the sun and back.
And they believe that in order toreanimate into their roles, embalming
in that time was reserved forpharaohs and very rich people, okay?
(28:12):
And so they believed that in orderto reanimate back into this life or
their lifetime or their consciousness,that their bodies needed to be intact.
So they created a way to preserve thebodies, and they did so using things
like honey and essential oils and salts,like very green burial type stuff, right?
(28:35):
No chemicals that were not foundin nature, let me say, because
they're chemicals in nature.
And so they did this and they erectedthese huge mortuary towers or monuments
the mortuary temple of Horace.
Like those are wheretheir bodies were kept.
And they believed that when they made this3000 year circle of necessity, journey
(28:59):
or two around and back from the sun, thatthey would reanimate into their human
form, which is why they put so much care.
Into not only preserving, but wrappingand decorating the sarcophagus,
which are like the most badasscaskets I've ever seen in my life,
(29:20):
but these big monuments think thetwo things that were outside of
the funeral home, where WhitneyHouston had her funeral, if you've
never seen one, and that should bea pretty easy image to to Google.
A lot of times they were madeof wood or marble, and so they
were very heavy, very expensive.
They would hire people whodedicated their lives to painting.
(29:44):
These sarcophaga and there werepeople who lived in an area called the
Necropolis, which is where the deadwere taken care of, that did nothing.
They did not interact withregular society because their work
was thought to be that sacred.
That's all they did was care forthe dead mummifying, the dead,
(30:05):
and practicing the ancient arts.
And I'm sitting here looking across theroom at the the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
But yeah, that was what they did.
Fast forward embalming was.
Explored throughout the world, butin our culture here in the United
States, it was very important partof the Civil War because soldiers
(30:27):
were being killed away from home.
Generals were being killed away from home.
Abraham Lincoln was killed awayfrom home and as president, they
wanted to take his body on a tour.
And so they developed what's now themodern embalming process using things
(30:47):
like embalming fluid and restorationas we practice it today to an extent.
Unique thing about embalming here in theUnited States, a lot of times those that
worked in furniture stores making thingslike beds and chairs were responsible
(31:07):
for making caskets and providingfunerals and caring for the deceased.
It is my opinion being from the south,being from within an hour of where the
Civil War started, that a lot of theslaves that came from certain parts of
Africa that may have studied in ancientChemin or ancient Egypt and their
lineage taught them certain practicesabout those things we're responsible
(31:31):
for the embalmings that took placeinitially here in the United States.
I do not have documentation or researchto prove that, but my common sense and.
Internal intuition.
Tell me that,
how does embalming actually work?
How does it preserve the body?
How long does it last?
We talked about thevascular system, right?
(31:53):
And so embalming has threeprinciple objectives.
Number one is to disinfect, twopreserve and to present, right?
Or to return like presentation to make youlook better, like the aesthetics of it.
And I say look better.
Re look as best as you can,not necessarily better.
(32:15):
So number one, disinfection.
We're cleaning the body.
When we begin to decompose,that is considered a biohazard.
A lot of our embalming licensescome through the board of health
because it is a health concern.
That was why Egypt was wiped off the map.
Ancient Egypt, they were embalming and.
(32:37):
Dumping dead bodies into the NileRiver, which contaminated the water
system, which killed the people.
Disinfection providing that biohazardcaution and that biohazard care
for the general community, right?
Number two is to preserve, we're stoppingthe decomposition process to the best of
(33:00):
our ability, meaning that we're taking theblood and other fluids out of the body and
we're replacing it with a preservative.
And that's the third thing I'msaying restore, but it's preserve
preservative chemical or agent.
That is going to help preserve your body.
And then that fourth step, notthe third step is presentation,
(33:23):
presenting you back to your community.
So that's where the restorative art andthe cosmetics and the aesthetics come in.
Those are the, that's all embalmingis Now there's a scientific
method and that method varies.
The chemicals that we use varies based onthat manner that cause and the condition
(33:44):
of the body that we talked about before.
But those principle things thatdisinfection, that preservation
and that restoration are andpresentation are the four keys.
How has science changed the way wehandle dead bodies over the years?
Are there new innovations that have helpedshift the way we care for dead bodies?
(34:06):
What are the changes that you'veseen or that you're aware of?
I think we're returning.
I see it like a circle.
I don't think that there's like thisnew technology that is changing the way
that we care for dead bodies, right?
Like embalming might be that technology,the way we do it, the chemicals we
use, where we source those chemicalsfrom may change and evolve over time.
(34:29):
But the procedures are still the samebecause we're still humans, right?
We still have vascular systems, we stillhave skin, we still have hair, right?
What's interesting to me is that we'rereturning more to nature, meaning
green burial is becoming a thing.
Eco-friendly.
Death doulas are now like the rave.
(34:49):
And it's interesting becausenone of these things are new.
This is what we did, this is how we tookcare of bodies and people when they died.
As way back as when the first person died,like I guarantee you, the first person
that ever died, depending on your faithand your culture, that person's name
may differ, but they weren't embalmed.
(35:11):
They may have been if they wereaware enough covered with something.
Some sort of ceremony done if theywere sick, cared for by other humans
that may have been around them.
If they weren't with otherhumans, maybe by the animals that
were around 'em, I don't know.
But they were left todecompose in the earth.
(35:33):
And so now fast forward, if you believein linear time to 2025, where we're now
telling people, oh, did you know you canhave a green burial without embalming?
Without this, without that, we'vealways been able to do that.
We're just marketing it differently now.
There are some cool innovationslike I. And I don't even know
(35:53):
if the word is innovative.
There are more earth themed optionslike interation, which is basically
human composting, returningsomeone to the soil from dust.
We coming from dust, we shallreturn ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
And so there's a process, a 90 day processthat will take your physical form, my
(36:17):
physical form, and turn me into soil.
And I think that's amazing.
There are different brand namesfor it, but it's human composting.
How natural is that?
How ancient is that?
Think about what enslaved peoplewere bought here to do, right?
The things that our enslavers thought,were below them, were beneath them.
(36:39):
Think about death andyour reaction to two.
Maybe, and with, we're talking about civilwar here, we're talking about a black
person that is enslaved, passing away.
A white person wouldhave not cared at all.
The enslave would have not, thatwould not have been a priority.
It would've been get him out the way.
(37:01):
And so the thing that enslavedpeople did and believed, let's
talk about that core belief.
As someone, as of Gullah Geecheeculture, homecoming has a different
connotation for me, right?
Or home going.
It's the belief that
death is the only escape fromthe turmoils of enslavement.
(37:26):
Death is the only chance my souland my spirit and my non-physical
body have of returning.
I. To that which I've come from,which I've come which is home, the
ancestral plane, Africa, a place thatan enslaved person after that first
generation of people that were boughthere have no physical concept of, right?
(37:50):
And so as an enslaved I imagine as a slaveowner and one of my slaves drops dead from
maybe heat exhaustion or being bit by asnake or after childbirth and not having
any type of medical attention or care.
My concern is not whathappens to their body.
It's get them out ofthe way and get to work.
(38:14):
And so think about what funeralsand memorials may have looked
like for those enslaved people.
That was the only time wherethey were allowed to congregate
unsupervised, because.
Our enslavers didn'twanna be bothered with us.
We were already V viewed as disgustingand less than, and subhuman.
(38:36):
So our dead bodies had no value.
So enslaved people with that beliefof they've escaped, they've made it,
they've transitioned, they're going home.
That's a celebratory time.
And so I think the main thing thatspeaks to that cultural nuance, that
(38:59):
speaks to that, what we celebrate now ishome going service that speaks to that.
That thing that makes us okay and ableto go on after someone dies on a deep
spiritual core level is the way thatwe care for their bodies when they die.
And if this is the only time thatmyself and people that may or may not
(39:21):
speak in my same language or tongue.
But we all have this deeplyrooted understanding of what
death or cessation of life is.
Then we take that as an opportunityto celebrate collectively and to
rejoice collectively and to showsomeone the care that they would get
never in life, but only through death.
(39:47):
And so let's fast forward andtalk about the cultural nuance
that exists now in death care.
So part of the reason, or the mainreason I started the Multicultural
Death and Grief Care Academy is becausewe're almost at that same place again,
where we don't have enslavers anymore.
We have an industry that ispredominantly run by old white men.
(40:13):
And because that is the case.
The attention to my hair, the attentionto my cosmetics, the attention to my
restorative arts that I talked aboutbefore, the attention to the ways
that chemicals interact with my bodydifferently that they may interact
with my Anglo-Saxon counterpartsor my Asian counterparts, or other
(40:38):
non-colored or non bipoc communities isnot a forethought, it's not priority.
It's not talked about in ourstandard education system.
And so when I went to mortuaryschool, there was no conversation
about any of those things.
We learned how to take care of whitepeople, Jewish people, Catholic people,
(40:59):
and talked a little bit about the Mormons.
I'm sitting in class thinking what aboutthe people that look and pray like me?
What about the peoplewho aren't Christian?
What about the people who practice ATRsor that have curly or textured hair?
We're not gonna learnhow to do any of that.
And remember, I graduated high schoolas a master barber, and so these
(41:23):
things are second nature to me.
But even my black counterparts in schoolor my black colleagues in school had no
idea what to do with our hair or aboutshrinkage or about detangling or about
honoring the spiritual essence of locks.
It was foreign.
And so that was very frustrating for me.
(41:45):
And so what I started doing was beingput in positions with professionals
that were supposed to be training meeither in school or on the job that
were making a lot more money to me.
I started having to train themand teach them or educate them
about all of these differencesand ways to care for and honor us.
(42:07):
And so in 2020 or shortly before 2020,about late 20, 20 19, my mentor Miss
Anita Grant found me on YouTube and shesaid to me, Joél, do you realize that the
things you're talking about and some ofthe challenges you've experienced, your
YouTube videos are continuing educationcourses that professionals can take and
(42:29):
earn credit for, but most importantly,it's gonna impact the way they're able
to care for those that you're trying toadvocate for, which are people of color.
And thank God I listened to her, and soI began teaching classes and God, the
universe, the ancestors, were pleased.
And so when the world was mourning the.
(42:52):
Death in the murder of George Floyd.
An opportunity opened for us to havea real conversation about racism and
death care and how this white maledominated industry had to start making
changes to accommodate those that hadset the standard, those enslaved people
that were caring for your soldiers andsending your soldiers back home during
(43:15):
the Civil War and throughout history,you have to start having a conversation
and taking us into consideration.
And so my seat at the table wasopened and I took it and ran with
it, and thus the MulticulturalDeath and Grief Care Academy.
And so now we have conversations notjust about hair care and cosmetic care
(43:35):
and skincare and the way that our bodiesreact to different chemicals and how
that can cause that darkening or howthat can be traumatic for someone to see
their loved one with a crooked wig and.
Just not presented back ina way that's peaceful and
aesthetically pleasing for them.
We now have conversationsabout faith and religion.
(43:57):
Again, not everyone's Christian,not everyone's Catholic
and not everyone's Jewish.
We have conversations about bias andabout prejudice and about racism, and
we're all, we're in the process ofbringing on more voices and representation
onto our team because my voice isnot the only voice that matters.
Yes, I'm a black woman and I have theseskills, but their entire communities that
(44:21):
still don't have voices in our industry.
Our mission is to give people a platformto talk about the things that matter at
the end of life and in death and in grief.
What do you wish that morepeople understood about
the science of death care?
Again, I wish thatpeople really understood.
(44:41):
That when you entrust someone withthe care of your loved one, that
is not a responsibility or a choiceor decision to be taken lightly.
I don't think people understand that.
Just like you when you're, let'ssay you get a diagnosis and you
get a second opinion, right?
Because you can, you don't have to gowith the funeral home that's closest
(45:05):
to you just because they're there.
You have the right and the powerand the authority to ask questions.
Have you cared for somewhatof my faith before?
And if you haven't, are you willingto learn and accommodate what we need?
Have you cared for aperson of color before?
There was this when I was in Atlantain mortuary school where there was
(45:26):
this horrible accident on Eastermorning where a family of five was
killed because someone ran into theback of them and pushed them into
oncoming traffic at a stoplight.
And our instructor talked abouthow unique she and her team
actually cared for the family.
She talked about how unique thisfamily was because someone in that
family, even amongst that tragedyor within that tragedy, had the
(45:50):
wherewithal to say, there's gonnabe a lot of press around this.
There's going to be a lot of attentionon this story, not just because
it's our family, but because of thehorrific nature of the way they died.
And we don't just want togo to any funeral home.
We want a funeral home thatknows how to handle this.
(46:11):
We want a funeral home thatknows how to care for us and not
get caught up in the limelight.
And so they interviewed about four funeralhomes before making their selection.
And they did not go withwhat the obvious choice was.
And I'm not gonna say the name ofthat firm, but they didn't go with
the obvious choice at the time.
(46:31):
They went where they feltmost received and cared for.
And I don't think people realizethey have that power as far
as the science is concerned.
I just wish people knew how much care,attention, and detail we have to as
funeral service professionals and more somy colleagues now and other professionals
(46:53):
that are in this work because I nolonger work in a funeral home full-time.
I'm 100% dedicated to my academy.
But there's so much education and so muchlike I can show you my bookshelf over
here like that is like a window into the.
The knowledge that over the years I'vecollected, and this is a small one.
(47:14):
I have four big ones in the front, but.
I share that to like, not to brag,but this is an ongoing practice.
People's bodies are changing, people'ssize of their bodies are changing.
Talk about technology.
We've been introduced to nanotechnology,which is being implanted into our bodies.
(47:34):
And so we as professionals are nowgoing to have to learn and maybe even.
As a society redefine what death isbecause of this nano technology and
how to care for, a micro robot being insomeone who is going to be cremated and
how to find that nano robot so that itdoesn't cause an explosion in the retort.
(47:55):
And is a person really dead becausethis robot is still working?
Their consciousness justisn't there anymore.
And so death care is ever evolving, butthat means that the professionals that
do this work are ever evolving as well.
And I don't think we get enoughcredit, honestly, for what we do.
I had the honor of workingwith my mentor, Ms.
(48:16):
Anita Grant, on what was called theCOVID-19 Oral History Project for
the Library of Congress, where theyput out a solicitation and wanted to
capture the stories of how differentindustries responded to the pandemic.
And so she and I had the honor ofinterviewing about 30 funeral directors
who were in the trenches during thattime from across the country in various
(48:37):
capacities and capturing their stories.
And during that time, like it was suchan honor to work on this project because
during that time I remember hearingeverything about nurses and doctors and,
they got the shine, which they deserved.
But here's the thing, not everybodythat got sick went to the hospital, but
(49:00):
everybody that died during the pandemichad to go through the funeral home.
Who do you think took care of them?
Who do you think puttheir life on the line?
We put our lives on the line to servefamilies during that time, and not that
we need credit for the work that wedo, but it was so fulfilling as someone
(49:20):
who worked during that time to giveother funeral service directors and
embalmers and mortician their flowersfor the work that they did do, because
we did not get it during the pandemic.
Doctors could go to Starbucksand get free coffee.
We couldn't.
And I'm not saying that to hate on thedoctors, I'm just saying it's the truth.
(49:41):
I understand that not get the creditfor it or not be seen for it definitely
makes you feel a certain way.
It
does.
And a lot of funeral directors died.
A lot of funeral directorscommitted suicide.
A lot of funeral directorsleft the industry.
A lot of people sacrificed a lot, alot of funeral directors lost family
(50:02):
members and weren't even able to go andcelebrate the lives of their loved ones,
of course, because of travel restrictions,but because they were exposing
themselves to the virus and didn'twanna take it back to their families.
So it was, it's such an honor tobe a part of something that got
to tell our story during that timein history and it'll live forever.
(50:26):
So with all the heartbreak that youface in your industry, how does science
and spirit intersect in your work?
It's all spiritual.
Science is so spiritual.
Science is saying these unseen things arehappening and there is a physical result.
How much more spiritualdo you get than that?
Now, faith and beliefsystem are different, right?
(50:51):
So for me, I have faith in God.
I believe in the ancestors.
I believe in the angels.
I believe in the spirit realm.
I believe in manifestation.
I believe in butterflies.
I believe in rainbows.
Like I believe in all these things.
They're not, nothing is impossible.
But as far as this work and therebeing so much heartbreak, faith and
(51:16):
spirituality do play a huge role.
In my ability to navigate it, right?
Having a belief system that saysthere's something beyond this.
And I believe that I'm playing a role notnecessarily in getting the deceased there
because my work isn't for the deceased.
It honors them.
(51:37):
But my work essentially is forthose of us that are still here.
And so the heartbreak part that youtalked about isn't so much in the death.
It's in the fact that in some ways,maybe I won't get to help everybody,
(51:57):
which is why I teach, because now Iget to impact and share what I know
in the way that I see things, whichyou could think is right or wrong.
With more people that areimpacting more people.
Yeah.
And sometimes it is very heavy work,but more than anything it's an honor.
(52:21):
Why do you think western culture, ormaybe it's not just Western culture, but
why do you think that we fear dead bodiesso much and how can we find a way of
shifting that perspective for ourselvesto not find dead bodies as frightening
or as scary as we might think they are.
(52:41):
It's because we've been taught to,that's the plain answer and we can
go back to being enslaved people.
Our slogan and mantra at the MulticulturalDeath and Grief Care Academy is that
culture is the medicine for grief.
I also believe culture is themedicine for the fear of death.
And so how can we move forward andmaybe not have that be the case?
(53:03):
I would encourage every ableminded adult or person to begin to
research your culture and what yourculture, your history, your lineage.
And I'm not just talking aboutyour mom and your grandma.
I'm talking about doing somereal deep diving into your
history, your personal history.
What are their belief systems aboutdeath, how do they interact with the dead?
(53:24):
And I can almost guarantee you that theyinteract with the dead very closely,
whether in spirit or in physical.
I so appreciate you talking to today.
Is there anything else that you feel likeyou wanna add that we missed or anything
that you want to close us off with?
I do think it, it would beirresponsible to not talk about
(53:49):
the spirit and the science of.
Being connected to peopleonce they have crossed on.
Some people refer to that asmediumship or ghost or hauntings
or whatever your words are.
And to piggyback off that last answerI don't believe that the connection
(54:09):
to our loved ones ends with death.
I believe it takes on a new form, anew language, a new system, and a lot
of times it's up to us to learn howto navigate those things and do with
that information, which you wish.
And that's really a beautifulbridge because next week we are
talking to a medium you're amazing.
(54:29):
Where can people find youif you want to be found?
I am the grave woman everywhere.
You can visit the grave woman.com orjust type in the grave woman at, go on
Google and I will pop up on YouTube,Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest.
Wherever you go, I'm everywhere.
Amazing.
You are absolutely wonderful.
(54:50):
Thank you so much for talking tome and helping to expand people's
minds, shift people's perspectives.
I know that people are gonna absolutelylove, not just this episode, but
love you oh, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Thank you for having me.
This has been amazing and thankyou and your sisters for doing the
(55:11):
amazing work that you're doing.
I know it is like I'm givingyou my Cat Williams judge.
This is gonna makeripples in the universe.
Got
some your lips to goddess, his ears, baby.
I told you that wasgonna be quite the ride.
So far in this perspective shifton death, dying in the afterlife.
(55:31):
We've gone from caring for the dying andpreparing for death in weeks one and two
when we sat down with Kim St. Straver totalk about the practical side of dying.
And this week, of course, Joel walkedus through the signs of death and
what happens when our bodies die.
Next week, we'll move intothe energetic perspective on
death with medium, Rachel Aio.
We're gonna explore what happensto our energy, our consciousness,
(55:52):
and our soul when we cross over.
And we'll seek to answer the question,does the afterlife really exist?
I promise you will not wanna miss it.
If you love the show, don't forgetto like, follow, and subscribe.
This is the Hanged Woman Podcast,where perspective is power.
We'll be back next week.
Until then, hang in there, seeker.
Hey seekers.
(00:00):
Just a heads up.
This episode features candiddiscussion about post-mortem care,
the physical realities of deathand funeral industry practices.
We speak with a licensed morticianabout what happens to the body after
death, including processes likeembalming and body preparation.
While these details are shared withrespect and education in mind that may
be emotionally or physically sensitivefor some listeners, please care for
(00:24):
your wellbeing as you listen and takea break if you need to, we'll be here.
Hey seekers and welcome tothe Hanged Woman Podcast.
I'm your host Julienne Irons, andI cannot tell you how excited I
am to be hanging with y'all today.
So if you've had a chance to listen tothe last two episodes, you know that
(00:48):
this theme is a heavy one, becausewe're getting a perspective shift
on death dying and the afterlife.
So the first two episodes, we satdown with death doula, Kim Stravers.
Kim walked us through all the practicalsteps of what we need to do to prepare
for our own deaths, and she alsohelped to explain the dying process
and helped us relieve the anxietythat some of us have around dying.
And next week we're sitting downwith medium, Rachel Erin Bossio
(01:11):
and Rachel's gonna talk to us aboutthe afterlife and help us answer
the question, does it really exist?
But before we cross into the unseen,let's pause and ground into the physical.
So picture this, you've just died and yourbody is getting wheeled into the morgue.
You get all zipped up nice and cozyinto one of those black body bags,
and then rolled into a refrigeratedmorgue door, which I just learned
(01:34):
are called mortuary cabinets.
But what actually happens to our bodieswhen we die, and what happens between
the time of death and the time whenher family sees her body at the wake?
This week on the Hanged Woman Podcast,we're diving into the science of
death and we're joined by Joél SimoneMaldonado, also known as the Grave Woman.
She's transforming the death care industryby centering black bodies, reclaiming
(01:57):
ancestral knowledge, and demystifyingwhat actually happens when we die.
So get ready 'cause thisis gonna be quite the ride.
Welcome to the Hanged WomanPodcast, where perspective is power.
Let's get into it.
(02:17):
Hey, fellow seekers.
I'm taking a quick pause from the show toshare something really close to my heart.
And honestly, the only reasonyou're even listening to this
podcast right now, it's 3 of Cups.
My sisters and I created 3 of cups, anIrons Sister's mission of love as a space
for healing, beauty, growth, and communitybecause we believe life is meant to be
full, rich, and abundant in every way.
(02:38):
We offer all kinds of ways to supportyou, like energy healing, heart-centered
art, plant-based medicinals, evenmarketing that will help enhance
your brand's presence in the world.
Because wherever you are in yourjourney, we wanna help you feel
seen, supported, and empowered.
So if you're looking for somethingto help fill your cup in whatever
way you need, come join us.
Follow us on Instagram@3ofCupsHealing, or explore all of
(02:59):
our offerings at 3ofcupshealing.com.
Be a seeker.
Your cup deserves to be full.
And now back to the episode.
I am so happy to be sittinghere with you right now.
I find you absolutely fascinating.
(03:21):
I find your brain fascinating and Ifind your work really fascinating.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
First can you just tell usa little bit about you, a
little bit about your history.
Okay.
First things first.
My name is Joél Simone Maldonado.
Professionally I amknown as the Grave Woman.
(03:41):
I am a licensed funeral director,embalmer educator sacred Grief
Practitioner, and the founder of theMulticultural Death and Grief Care
Academy, where we focus on culturalintelligence and cultural competency
and end of life, death and grief care.
History.
(04:02):
I was born in England.
I was raised here inBeaufort, South Carolina.
Amazing family.
Pretty much amazing childhood.
I, I. I graduated from high schoolwith my certification as a master
barber, which is a combination betweenmaster haircare and cosmetology.
(04:22):
And from there I went on to collegein Atlanta, Georgia, and from
there into working in a cemetery.
And my path led me to going tomortuary school where I graduated
from Gupton Jones in 2012.
And the rest is literally history.
Wow.
(04:42):
So I wanna start here withthe science behind dying.
Can you walk us through whatphysically happens to a body,
the moments and days after death?
Absolutely.
And I wanna preface this by sayingthat a lot of times we tend to
look at death as a distant friendor a distant relative, right?
But death is always a constant companiondeath walks beside us throughout
(05:05):
our entirety from the time we'reconceived until the time that we.
Experience the succession of life.
And by that literally right nowyou and I are in the dying process.
Our cells are dying, ourbodies are getting older.
We are slowing down in timeand space if we're looking at
(05:25):
that metaphysically, right?
Or we're accelerating towards the big bangor the explosion, which is death, right?
But to answer it more on a commonlevel after someone we'll start with
is pronounced dead or experiences, whatwe call somatic death, which is the
cessation of our brain function, ourheart function, and our lung function.
(05:51):
Those things lead to death.
And we experience that in a varietyof ways, either through sickness,
accident, trauma, sudden shock.
There's literally a millionways to die, if not more.
But.
Here in this country, in our predominantculture, what happens is that the people
that have not only the authority, andI use that word authority, not as in
(06:15):
power, but in knowledge and understandingof how to care for death, are called.
And a lot of times that is the funeraldirector, maybe the police and fire
department or the coroner, and we aretaken into their custody depending
on the manner in which we pass away.
Because there's language is so importantaround this, you have manner of death.
(06:39):
Cause of death and death.
Manner of death.
Meaning how we die if we're in acar accident, if we're in a hospital
bed cause of death, trauma from saidaccident or trauma or result of illness.
We may be taken to the medical examiner'soffice or the coroner where an autopsy
(07:02):
may be performed, and that autopsythen reveals that cause of death.
That's where that language is important.
If that isn't the case, a lot of timespeople are taken into the custody of the
funeral home, where depending on culture,faith, religion, personal preference,
you'll be cared for in a variety of ways.
(07:22):
One of which may be the most commonthat people are aware of is embalmed,
meaning that your blood is removedfrom your body through the embalming
process, through your vascular system.
Incisions are made at variouspoints throughout the body,
depending on the condition causeand manner of death that will best.
(07:44):
Serve to preserve and present yourbody back to your loved ones or
communities, if that's your choice.
The embalming process also involvessomething called setting features where,
if we think about it in Hollywood terms,a lot of times people die so peacefully,
they just die so gracefully and theireyes are closed and they have a cute
(08:07):
little pout and maybe a smile, right?
That is totally antina and anti-gravity.
We die a lot of times with our eyeswide open and our mouths a lot of
times hanging uncontrollably openbecause our muscle function has ceased
to exist, meaning that we are nowsubject to whatever gravity decides.
(08:31):
Our muscles keep our mouth open.
That's no longer working.
Now our mouths are open.
Setting features involves thingslike closing our eyes and giving us
that natural closed eye appearance,closing our mouths and making sure
that, when people come and look atus for the last time, they're not
literally looking down our throat.
And I'm laughing because, the waythat we see death without going behind
(08:54):
the scenes is so interesting to me.
It involves things like, making incisionsa lot of times in the neck or collar area,
in the arms if necessary in the thighs.
And I'm not using medical terminologyhere because I want people to understand
where these incisions may be madeor towards our ankles, depending on
(09:15):
the conditions of our bodies, right?
Most times in our neck and collarand, making those incisions and
then closing those incisions.
That's vascular embalming.
So your vascular systems are yourveins and your arteries, how your
blood moves through your body.
Then you have cavity embalmingwhere we use what's called a trocar.
(09:35):
If any of you have seen plastic surgery,it's the same similar tool that they
use to suction fat from, those areasthat we want a little bit more snatched.
We're using maybe a little bitlonger trocar to embalm and get
embalming fluid into the organs.
So there's a hose, but then that hoseis attached to a long looks like needle.
(10:02):
And so that needle is used toaspirate and aspirate means to
remove by reverse water pressure.
Your fluid from your organs your stomachmatter, your urine from your bladder fluid
and liquid that may be in your intestines.
Like that tool is used to remove body fromfluid from our cavities in our bodies.
(10:27):
If you, someone has an autopsy alot of times their organs, depending
on whether it's a full autopsy or apartial autopsy, partial meaning just
the brain or a certain area of thebody, full meaning the skull cap is
removed, the Y incision is made and.
The cavity is exposed.
Ribcage remove, cavity exposed,and those organs are dissected
(10:51):
and investigated individually.
So a lot of times in the funeralhome, if someone has had a full
autopsy, those organs are returned tous in a bag separate from the body.
And so that cavity embalmingis not necessary in that case.
However, we do treat those organsseparately and then gently place
(11:17):
that bag or whatever receptaclethey're returned in within the body.
Yes.
And when I say returned in thebody, we're not piecing things
back together like a puzzle.
It's a bag, maybe a biohazardbag, and that bag is placed back
inside the cavity and the cavity.
The two flaps of skin that remain from theY incision are then sewn back together.
(11:40):
Is there a scientific reason why we put itback in, or do we do that because it's out
of respect for the person who's passed?
A lot of times it's for respect, and iffor some reason that bag can't be placed
back inside of that person for anotherreason, it will be placed at the foot
of whatever their burial container is.
Whether it is a casket, a cremation box,it'll be placed at the foot of that box.
(12:05):
If for some reason it's notable to be placed back inside.
And so I'm sharing this and goinginto detail about this because not
to be traumatic, I just want peopleto understand that there's a lot of
work that goes into returning yourloved one to you in a way that is
not only presentable, but palatable.
(12:27):
And that is aesthetically pleasing.
Another component.
Once that embalming process is done,for many people that are being viewed
or gonna have a viewing at theirservice, their family is going to see
them, is the cosmetic side, meaningthat we do your makeup we care for you.
(12:48):
We also cleanse.
People's bodies.
We give people baths.
We wash their hair, we clean their nails,we clean their ears, we clean their nose.
We make sure that thereare no eye boogers.
The same thing that you would doto your body as a human being.
Waking up in the morning andgetting yourself ready for the day.
(13:09):
Those same details are done to prepare youto be presented back to your community,
to be cremated, to be buried andprofessionals like myself do that work.
And we do that for every personthat comes into our care.
Unless otherwise specified.
Now, I'm not saying wedo the embalming process.
(13:30):
I'm not saying everyone has the sameexact embalming procedure, even though
the procedure is scientific, the conditionof the body, again, that manner, that
cause and that condition are important.
And they dictate how we're ableto care for them in the way that
we go about caring for them.
People don't just get upand get in the casket.
We have to literally, either with amechanical lift or with physical manpower,
(13:55):
lift them into their caskets after theirdressed, putting their clothes on, their
socks, their shoes, their underwear,their belts, their bras, their jewelry.
We put these things on people, and so Iwant people to understand that there's
so much care that goes into this.
So a lot of times especially intraumatic deaths, we have to do
(14:17):
what's called restorative arts, right?
If someone has been shot in thehead, if there's been an accident,
there's been trauma of any kind.
Maybe someone had cancer thatate away a part of their face,
they were attacked by an animal,and now, there's obvious trauma.
We have to repair that if we're gonnapresent that person back to their
community and to their loved ones.
And through the use of mortuarywaxes, through plasters, through
(14:42):
becoming ingenuity and using thingsthat sometimes we may not think.
Would be used to put someone'sface back together or stabilize a
broken arm or a compound fracture.
We use those things to restore as muchof a natural appearance as possible.
Imagine using a wax, right?
(15:03):
A lot of waxes come in, beigeor brown or white colors.
The ars come in pinks and beige.
And so there's a lot of colortheory in matching skin tones
and complexions and undertones.
Being specific about lip liners so thatwe don't make people look overly animated.
(15:24):
Even something as simpleas closing the eyes.
You just close your eyes.
It's so natural to you, but there'sliterally a formula to closing
someone's eyes when they've passed away.
Number one, because the eyes areopen, we have to make sure that
they're going to remain closed.
It's really old school, but peopleused to use air and alpha, which is
super glue to basically line the bottomlash line and then close the eye.
(15:49):
But the eye is closed.
So the formula for that is that two thirdsof the eye is coming down and one third is
coming up to give that natural appearanceor knowing how to close someone's mouth
so that they don't look like this.
And like, how unsettling would that be?
(16:10):
And so either through suturing Air andAlpha, or honestly with what we call
a needle gun, we can close someone'smouth through injecting wires below
the teeth and above the teeth in thegum line, and then twisting two wires
together to close the mouth or throughsuturing through the bottom of your
(16:35):
jaw, coming up through under your nose,going back down, and then suturing
the mouth closed.
There there's so much scienceand effort that goes into it.
You talked about how you wouldhave to use something perhaps
unique in order to put somebody'sphysical features back together.
(16:58):
Can you give us an example ofsomething that stands out to
you that you've done before?
I can give you several examples, but Ithink the most gentle example and the most
responsible example would be styrofoam.
Using styrofoam to reshape breastthat maybe were lost due to mastectomy
or tissue cotton to stuff, a bralike we did when we were teenagers.
(17:23):
There are other things, but I wouldprefer not to get into those things
because I don't wanna give the wrongimpression about the work that we do.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit about, alittle bit more about the science of
what happens to our body when we die,the moments before death, the moments of
death, and the moments right after death.
(17:44):
What is happening to our bodies?
I am gonna answer this questionto the best of my ability.
I'm not a pathologist ora medical professional.
But from what I understand,there are certain things that
do happen, and I'll focus on thepost death side if that's okay.
There's something called agonal Alger.
We're basically, our body'sheat up shortly after death.
(18:06):
They, there have been studies wherepeople have used those heat sensor
lenses, what are they called?
I can't remember right now, but where,almost like how snakes see, where
they see heat, not necessarily items.
And so there's been research donethat show that our bodies literally
heat up from the inside out.
(18:28):
And to me, that puts me again, when Idescribe death, is that ex accelerating
towards that explosion or big bang.
Almost like a star.
It explodes.
I feel like that's ourselves releasingall of our energy back out into the
cosmos or into the world in some way.
(18:48):
There's also something calledlividity where our blood pools at
the it's pooled based on gravity.
So let's say I passed away in thischair right now, I'd probably lean
over and fall forward or backwards orsidewards, but all the blood is going
(19:09):
to pull in the direction of gravity.
So there'll be some blood, a lot ofblood rush to my feet because it's no
longer circulating through my body.
My heart isn't working anymore,my heart's not pumping.
It's not, your heart is basicallycreating anti-gravity in
your body, so it's no longer.
Pumping the body through my face,through my hands, there'll be a lot
(19:32):
of blood collected at my fingertips.
'cause they'll be hanging down.
And if I fall forward, my face willprobably be dark if they pick me up
from, or when they pick me up, if Ifall forward onto this computer, the
blood that's in my head will rushtowards like wherever my head is laying.
A lot of people think that all of ourbodily functions cease upon death.
(19:56):
But I've picked people up andwhen you move them, they pass gas.
They use the bathroom on themselvesbecause our muscles are no longer
contracting and holding these things inplace, holding our functions in place.
People I. Make what's calledthe death rattle, which
happens before and after death.
(20:18):
And it's basically air escaping ourwind, like our air escaping our throat
and our windpipes and our larynx.
And it's coming up and it's coming out.
It sometimes it sounds like gurgling,
It can be very unnerving when you're inthe van and you're here and Mr. Johnson
in the back and you hit a speed bump or,his body is, rattling around back there.
(20:41):
And I say rattling around.
I don't mean it how it sounds, but, movingbased on what's happening around him.
And you're hearing sounds andit's okay, where'd that come from?
Or you're like, oh mygosh, what is that smell?
It's gas and God knowswhat else coming out.
We also take on after a certainperiod of time, I know people talk
(21:02):
about their loved ones being cold tothe touch we take on the temperature
of the environment around us.
A lot of times, especially afterwe've been refrigerated, which is a
method of slowing down decomposition.
We take on the environment.
So when you saying my loved one feelscold, it's maybe not necessarily
(21:24):
that they're cold, you're not usedto feeling the actual temperature
of the room on someone's body.
Because that heat from ourbody is always moving because
our heart is always pumping.
We're moving and creating energy.
Are there any things that Orian does thatthe average person does not know about?
There's so many things thatmorticians do that the average person
(21:48):
doesn't know about, and they'renot necessarily what you think.
Sometimes we tell people no, thatwe don't think it's a good idea.
You see your loved one maybe in thecondition that they're in, not because we
don't want you to see your loved one, butbecause we care about the way you remember
them and ultimately the choice is yours.
But yeah, we do that.
(22:10):
We hold babies for people that maybeneed to view their loved one alone
and without having to worry about,
holding their baby or they'reshaking so much because they're
afraid of what they're gonna see.
We'll just say, you wantme to hold the baby?
We hand babies to theirmoms to hold one more time.
(22:37):
And as difficult as that sounds, there'snot been one time that I have handed a
baby to their mom to hold one last time.
And they've regretted it.
They've been terrified to do it, butso glad that they did in the end.
One of my students told me we were talkingabout working with difficult families,
(22:57):
and she said something so beautiful to me.
She said, I worked with this family andthe wife complained about everything.
His tie, his hair brush, the way hishair was brushed, his expression.
And she said, what I did was Ihanded her the brush and said you
show me how to take care of him.
You've taken care of him every day forthe last few years and for the last
however many years of your marriage.
(23:18):
And no one is gonna know howto care for him like you do.
So you show me.
So I say that to say, we relinquishcontrol and put you in the driver's seat.
We feed people literally taking foodor bringing food into the office when
we realize that someone's not eaten fordays because they're grief stricken.
(23:40):
We deliver the news sometimes thatpeople's loved ones have passed away.
If they're calling the funeral home,looking for them, or calling around
and saying, I heard this person passedaway, but I haven't been able to
confirm it is, are they in your care?
In, in cases like that there are somefollow up questions because of course we
(24:03):
don't want to give people who shouldn'thave certain information either that we
don't have the authority to give or thatthe family does not want them to have.
So sometimes we have to break thenews to people, which is never fun.
There's so many things that we do.
We're flower arrangers, we're seamstressesand tailors we're, and for that, sometimes
(24:26):
we have to readjust and customize people'sclothes and order to make them fit.
For example, people pass away fromdisease and have been sick for a
long time and maybe the family justcan't afford to buy a new suit,
or this was their favorite suit.
They wore it to our wedding.
They wore it, on our last vacation,whatever, I know we buried my
(24:46):
grandfather in the tuxedo that he worefor my grandparents' 50th anniversary.
And he was swollen due to being onlife support after he passed away.
And so I'm confident that,maybe some alterations were
made to the suit that he wore.
We're hairdressers, we're makeup artists.
We're mad scientists.
(25:09):
We wear so many hats and that'sjust off the top of my head.
We're counselors.
We listen.
We're confidants.
I can't tell you how many times peoplehave come in when someone died and
said, who am I gonna be mad at now?
This person abused me when I was a child.
They raped me.
They sexually molested me,and I've never told a soul.
(25:29):
And that doesn't leave my office.
Or it has never left my officeattached to that person's name.
Or we're security.
Sometimes when a wife finds out herhusband had a girlfriend or a boyfriend,
oh no, this needs to be a television show.
(25:50):
Where's so many different?
Where's Tyler Perry?
There's so many things that we do.
Okay, seekers.
I think this is a reallygreat place to take a break.
We'll be right back with the episode.
Hey, seekers.
So healing isn't always pretty,but you don't have to do it alone.
Temperance Energy Healing offersintuitive energy work to support you
through life's biggest transitions,grief, change, and beyond.
(26:14):
Whether you're navigating loss orsimply seeking alignment, Temperance
offers grounded support with care,clarity, compassion, and non-judgment.
We offer in-person sessions in Marina delRey and Valley Glen, or remote sessions.
If you're outside the LA area.
Book a session.
Remember who you are and fillyour cup at 3ofCupsHealing.com.
(26:42):
I sit here listening to you talkabout this and I can't help but
feel a little bit envious that youweren't the one to take care of.
My sister, Jasmine and I werethe ones responsible for going to
make sure that she was viewablefor her children and she wasn't.
And there were so manythings that I wanted to fix.
I said something to the funeraldirector at the funeral parlor, and I
(27:03):
was like, she doesn't look like her.
Her skin is like 10 times darker.
The wig looks crooked.
I could tell her dress was stuffed.
And so everything just looked wrong.
And I wish that I had somebody likeyou that takes all the care that
you take in caring for people, boththe deceased and their loved ones.
(27:29):
So I really admire you for that.
That is probably one of the mostunique compliments I've ever had.
Thank you
let's get into embalming.
So where and how didembalming actually start?
Embalming started in ancient Egypt andtheir motivation for embalming was circled
(27:50):
around what they to be the circle ofnecessity, which was a 3000 year journey
to around, to and around the sun and back.
And they believe that in order toreanimate into their roles, embalming
in that time was reserved forpharaohs and very rich people, okay?
(28:12):
And so they believed that in orderto reanimate back into this life or
their lifetime or their consciousness,that their bodies needed to be intact.
So they created a way to preserve thebodies, and they did so using things
like honey and essential oils and salts,like very green burial type stuff, right?
(28:35):
No chemicals that were not foundin nature, let me say, because
they're chemicals in nature.
And so they did this and they erectedthese huge mortuary towers or monuments
the mortuary temple of Horace.
Like those are wheretheir bodies were kept.
And they believed that when they made this3000 year circle of necessity, journey
(28:59):
or two around and back from the sun, thatthey would reanimate into their human
form, which is why they put so much care.
Into not only preserving, but wrappingand decorating the sarcophagus,
which are like the most badasscaskets I've ever seen in my life,
(29:20):
but these big monuments think thetwo things that were outside of
the funeral home, where WhitneyHouston had her funeral, if you've
never seen one, and that should bea pretty easy image to to Google.
A lot of times they were madeof wood or marble, and so they
were very heavy, very expensive.
They would hire people whodedicated their lives to painting.
(29:44):
These sarcophaga and there werepeople who lived in an area called the
Necropolis, which is where the deadwere taken care of, that did nothing.
They did not interact withregular society because their work
was thought to be that sacred.
That's all they did was care forthe dead mummifying, the dead,
(30:05):
and practicing the ancient arts.
And I'm sitting here looking across theroom at the the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
But yeah, that was what they did.
Fast forward embalming was.
Explored throughout the world, butin our culture here in the United
States, it was very important partof the Civil War because soldiers
(30:27):
were being killed away from home.
Generals were being killed away from home.
Abraham Lincoln was killed awayfrom home and as president, they
wanted to take his body on a tour.
And so they developed what's now themodern embalming process using things
(30:47):
like embalming fluid and restorationas we practice it today to an extent.
Unique thing about embalming here in theUnited States, a lot of times those that
worked in furniture stores making thingslike beds and chairs were responsible
(31:07):
for making caskets and providingfunerals and caring for the deceased.
It is my opinion being from the south,being from within an hour of where the
Civil War started, that a lot of theslaves that came from certain parts of
Africa that may have studied in ancientChemin or ancient Egypt and their
lineage taught them certain practicesabout those things we're responsible
(31:31):
for the embalmings that took placeinitially here in the United States.
I do not have documentation or researchto prove that, but my common sense and.
Internal intuition.
Tell me that,
how does embalming actually work?
How does it preserve the body?
How long does it last?
We talked about thevascular system, right?
(31:53):
And so embalming has threeprinciple objectives.
Number one is to disinfect, twopreserve and to present, right?
Or to return like presentation to make youlook better, like the aesthetics of it.
And I say look better.
Re look as best as you can,not necessarily better.
(32:15):
So number one, disinfection.
We're cleaning the body.
When we begin to decompose,that is considered a biohazard.
A lot of our embalming licensescome through the board of health
because it is a health concern.
That was why Egypt was wiped off the map.
Ancient Egypt, they were embalming and.
(32:37):
Dumping dead bodies into the NileRiver, which contaminated the water
system, which killed the people.
Disinfection providing that biohazardcaution and that biohazard care
for the general community, right?
Number two is to preserve, we're stoppingthe decomposition process to the best of
(33:00):
our ability, meaning that we're taking theblood and other fluids out of the body and
we're replacing it with a preservative.
And that's the third thing I'msaying restore, but it's preserve
preservative chemical or agent.
That is going to help preserve your body.
And then that fourth step, notthe third step is presentation,
(33:23):
presenting you back to your community.
So that's where the restorative art andthe cosmetics and the aesthetics come in.
Those are the, that's all embalmingis Now there's a scientific
method and that method varies.
The chemicals that we use varies based onthat manner that cause and the condition
(33:44):
of the body that we talked about before.
But those principle things thatdisinfection, that preservation
and that restoration are andpresentation are the four keys.
How has science changed the way wehandle dead bodies over the years?
Are there new innovations that have helpedshift the way we care for dead bodies?
(34:06):
What are the changes that you'veseen or that you're aware of?
I think we're returning.
I see it like a circle.
I don't think that there's like thisnew technology that is changing the way
that we care for dead bodies, right?
Like embalming might be that technology,the way we do it, the chemicals we
use, where we source those chemicalsfrom may change and evolve over time.
(34:29):
But the procedures are still the samebecause we're still humans, right?
We still have vascular systems, we stillhave skin, we still have hair, right?
What's interesting to me is that we'rereturning more to nature, meaning
green burial is becoming a thing.
Eco-friendly.
Death doulas are now like the rave.
(34:49):
And it's interesting becausenone of these things are new.
This is what we did, this is how we tookcare of bodies and people when they died.
As way back as when the first person died,like I guarantee you, the first person
that ever died, depending on your faithand your culture, that person's name
may differ, but they weren't embalmed.
(35:11):
They may have been if they wereaware enough covered with something.
Some sort of ceremony done if theywere sick, cared for by other humans
that may have been around them.
If they weren't with otherhumans, maybe by the animals that
were around 'em, I don't know.
But they were left todecompose in the earth.
(35:33):
And so now fast forward, if you believein linear time to 2025, where we're now
telling people, oh, did you know you canhave a green burial without embalming?
Without this, without that, we'vealways been able to do that.
We're just marketing it differently now.
There are some cool innovationslike I. And I don't even know
(35:53):
if the word is innovative.
There are more earth themed optionslike interation, which is basically
human composting, returningsomeone to the soil from dust.
We coming from dust, we shallreturn ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
And so there's a process, a 90 day processthat will take your physical form, my
(36:17):
physical form, and turn me into soil.
And I think that's amazing.
There are different brand namesfor it, but it's human composting.
How natural is that?
How ancient is that?
Think about what enslaved peoplewere bought here to do, right?
The things that our enslavers thought,were below them, were beneath them.
(36:39):
Think about death andyour reaction to two.
Maybe, and with, we're talking about civilwar here, we're talking about a black
person that is enslaved, passing away.
A white person wouldhave not cared at all.
The enslave would have not, thatwould not have been a priority.
It would've been get him out the way.
(37:01):
And so the thing that enslavedpeople did and believed, let's
talk about that core belief.
As someone, as of Gullah Geecheeculture, homecoming has a different
connotation for me, right?
Or home going.
It's the belief that
death is the only escape fromthe turmoils of enslavement.
(37:26):
Death is the only chance my souland my spirit and my non-physical
body have of returning.
I. To that which I've come from,which I've come which is home, the
ancestral plane, Africa, a place thatan enslaved person after that first
generation of people that were boughthere have no physical concept of, right?
(37:50):
And so as an enslaved I imagine as a slaveowner and one of my slaves drops dead from
maybe heat exhaustion or being bit by asnake or after childbirth and not having
any type of medical attention or care.
My concern is not whathappens to their body.
It's get them out ofthe way and get to work.
(38:14):
And so think about what funeralsand memorials may have looked
like for those enslaved people.
That was the only time wherethey were allowed to congregate
unsupervised, because.
Our enslavers didn'twanna be bothered with us.
We were already V viewed as disgustingand less than, and subhuman.
(38:36):
So our dead bodies had no value.
So enslaved people with that beliefof they've escaped, they've made it,
they've transitioned, they're going home.
That's a celebratory time.
And so I think the main thing thatspeaks to that cultural nuance, that
(38:59):
speaks to that, what we celebrate now ishome going service that speaks to that.
That thing that makes us okay and ableto go on after someone dies on a deep
spiritual core level is the way thatwe care for their bodies when they die.
And if this is the only time thatmyself and people that may or may not
(39:21):
speak in my same language or tongue.
But we all have this deeplyrooted understanding of what
death or cessation of life is.
Then we take that as an opportunityto celebrate collectively and to
rejoice collectively and to showsomeone the care that they would get
never in life, but only through death.
(39:47):
And so let's fast forward andtalk about the cultural nuance
that exists now in death care.
So part of the reason, or the mainreason I started the Multicultural
Death and Grief Care Academy is becausewe're almost at that same place again,
where we don't have enslavers anymore.
We have an industry that ispredominantly run by old white men.
(40:13):
And because that is the case.
The attention to my hair, the attentionto my cosmetics, the attention to my
restorative arts that I talked aboutbefore, the attention to the ways
that chemicals interact with my bodydifferently that they may interact
with my Anglo-Saxon counterpartsor my Asian counterparts, or other
(40:38):
non-colored or non bipoc communities isnot a forethought, it's not priority.
It's not talked about in ourstandard education system.
And so when I went to mortuaryschool, there was no conversation
about any of those things.
We learned how to take care of whitepeople, Jewish people, Catholic people,
(40:59):
and talked a little bit about the Mormons.
I'm sitting in class thinking what aboutthe people that look and pray like me?
What about the peoplewho aren't Christian?
What about the people who practice ATRsor that have curly or textured hair?
We're not gonna learnhow to do any of that.
And remember, I graduated high schoolas a master barber, and so these
(41:23):
things are second nature to me.
But even my black counterparts in schoolor my black colleagues in school had no
idea what to do with our hair or aboutshrinkage or about detangling or about
honoring the spiritual essence of locks.
It was foreign.
And so that was very frustrating for me.
(41:45):
And so what I started doing was beingput in positions with professionals
that were supposed to be training meeither in school or on the job that
were making a lot more money to me.
I started having to train themand teach them or educate them
about all of these differencesand ways to care for and honor us.
(42:07):
And so in 2020 or shortly before 2020,about late 20, 20 19, my mentor Miss
Anita Grant found me on YouTube and shesaid to me, Joél, do you realize that the
things you're talking about and some ofthe challenges you've experienced, your
YouTube videos are continuing educationcourses that professionals can take and
(42:29):
earn credit for, but most importantly,it's gonna impact the way they're able
to care for those that you're trying toadvocate for, which are people of color.
And thank God I listened to her, and soI began teaching classes and God, the
universe, the ancestors, were pleased.
And so when the world was mourning the.
(42:52):
Death in the murder of George Floyd.
An opportunity opened for us to havea real conversation about racism and
death care and how this white maledominated industry had to start making
changes to accommodate those that hadset the standard, those enslaved people
that were caring for your soldiers andsending your soldiers back home during
(43:15):
the Civil War and throughout history,you have to start having a conversation
and taking us into consideration.
And so my seat at the table wasopened and I took it and ran with
it, and thus the MulticulturalDeath and Grief Care Academy.
And so now we have conversations notjust about hair care and cosmetic care
(43:35):
and skincare and the way that our bodiesreact to different chemicals and how
that can cause that darkening or howthat can be traumatic for someone to see
their loved one with a crooked wig and.
Just not presented back ina way that's peaceful and
aesthetically pleasing for them.
We now have conversationsabout faith and religion.
(43:57):
Again, not everyone's Christian,not everyone's Catholic
and not everyone's Jewish.
We have conversations about bias andabout prejudice and about racism, and
we're all, we're in the process ofbringing on more voices and representation
onto our team because my voice isnot the only voice that matters.
Yes, I'm a black woman and I have theseskills, but their entire communities that
(44:21):
still don't have voices in our industry.
Our mission is to give people a platformto talk about the things that matter at
the end of life and in death and in grief.
What do you wish that morepeople understood about
the science of death care?
Again, I wish thatpeople really understood.
(44:41):
That when you entrust someone withthe care of your loved one, that
is not a responsibility or a choiceor decision to be taken lightly.
I don't think people understand that.
Just like you when you're, let'ssay you get a diagnosis and you
get a second opinion, right?
Because you can, you don't have to gowith the funeral home that's closest
(45:05):
to you just because they're there.
You have the right and the powerand the authority to ask questions.
Have you cared for somewhatof my faith before?
And if you haven't, are you willingto learn and accommodate what we need?
Have you cared for aperson of color before?
There was this when I was in Atlantain mortuary school where there was
(45:26):
this horrible accident on Eastermorning where a family of five was
killed because someone ran into theback of them and pushed them into
oncoming traffic at a stoplight.
And our instructor talked abouthow unique she and her team
actually cared for the family.
She talked about how unique thisfamily was because someone in that
family, even amongst that tragedyor within that tragedy, had the
(45:50):
wherewithal to say, there's gonnabe a lot of press around this.
There's going to be a lot of attentionon this story, not just because
it's our family, but because of thehorrific nature of the way they died.
And we don't just want togo to any funeral home.
We want a funeral home thatknows how to handle this.
(46:11):
We want a funeral home thatknows how to care for us and not
get caught up in the limelight.
And so they interviewed about four funeralhomes before making their selection.
And they did not go withwhat the obvious choice was.
And I'm not gonna say the name ofthat firm, but they didn't go with
the obvious choice at the time.
(46:31):
They went where they feltmost received and cared for.
And I don't think people realizethey have that power as far
as the science is concerned.
I just wish people knew how much care,attention, and detail we have to as
funeral service professionals and more somy colleagues now and other professionals
(46:53):
that are in this work because I nolonger work in a funeral home full-time.
I'm 100% dedicated to my academy.
But there's so much education and so muchlike I can show you my bookshelf over
here like that is like a window into the.
The knowledge that over the years I'vecollected, and this is a small one.
(47:14):
I have four big ones in the front, but.
I share that to like, not to brag,but this is an ongoing practice.
People's bodies are changing, people'ssize of their bodies are changing.
Talk about technology.
We've been introduced to nanotechnology,which is being implanted into our bodies.
(47:34):
And so we as professionals are nowgoing to have to learn and maybe even.
As a society redefine what death isbecause of this nano technology and
how to care for, a micro robot being insomeone who is going to be cremated and
how to find that nano robot so that itdoesn't cause an explosion in the retort.
(47:55):
And is a person really dead becausethis robot is still working?
Their consciousness justisn't there anymore.
And so death care is ever evolving, butthat means that the professionals that
do this work are ever evolving as well.
And I don't think we get enoughcredit, honestly, for what we do.
I had the honor of workingwith my mentor, Ms.
(48:16):
Anita Grant, on what was called theCOVID-19 Oral History Project for
the Library of Congress, where theyput out a solicitation and wanted to
capture the stories of how differentindustries responded to the pandemic.
And so she and I had the honor ofinterviewing about 30 funeral directors
who were in the trenches during thattime from across the country in various
(48:37):
capacities and capturing their stories.
And during that time, like it was suchan honor to work on this project because
during that time I remember hearingeverything about nurses and doctors and,
they got the shine, which they deserved.
But here's the thing, not everybodythat got sick went to the hospital, but
(49:00):
everybody that died during the pandemichad to go through the funeral home.
Who do you think took care of them?
Who do you think puttheir life on the line?
We put our lives on the line to servefamilies during that time, and not that
we need credit for the work that wedo, but it was so fulfilling as someone
(49:20):
who worked during that time to giveother funeral service directors and
embalmers and mortician their flowersfor the work that they did do, because
we did not get it during the pandemic.
Doctors could go to Starbucksand get free coffee.
We couldn't.
And I'm not saying that to hate on thedoctors, I'm just saying it's the truth.
(49:41):
I understand that not get the creditfor it or not be seen for it definitely
makes you feel a certain way.
It
does.
And a lot of funeral directors died.
A lot of funeral directorscommitted suicide.
A lot of funeral directorsleft the industry.
A lot of people sacrificed a lot, alot of funeral directors lost family
(50:02):
members and weren't even able to go andcelebrate the lives of their loved ones,
of course, because of travel restrictions,but because they were exposing
themselves to the virus and didn'twanna take it back to their families.
So it was, it's such an honor tobe a part of something that got
to tell our story during that timein history and it'll live forever.
(50:26):
So with all the heartbreak that youface in your industry, how does science
and spirit intersect in your work?
It's all spiritual.
Science is so spiritual.
Science is saying these unseen things arehappening and there is a physical result.
How much more spiritualdo you get than that?
Now, faith and beliefsystem are different, right?
(50:51):
So for me, I have faith in God.
I believe in the ancestors.
I believe in the angels.
I believe in the spirit realm.
I believe in manifestation.
I believe in butterflies.
I believe in rainbows.
Like I believe in all these things.
They're not, nothing is impossible.
But as far as this work and therebeing so much heartbreak, faith and
(51:16):
spirituality do play a huge role.
In my ability to navigate it, right?
Having a belief system that saysthere's something beyond this.
And I believe that I'm playing a role notnecessarily in getting the deceased there
because my work isn't for the deceased.
It honors them.
(51:37):
But my work essentially is forthose of us that are still here.
And so the heartbreak part that youtalked about isn't so much in the death.
It's in the fact that in some ways,maybe I won't get to help everybody,
(51:57):
which is why I teach, because now Iget to impact and share what I know
in the way that I see things, whichyou could think is right or wrong.
With more people that areimpacting more people.
Yeah.
And sometimes it is very heavy work,but more than anything it's an honor.
(52:21):
Why do you think western culture, ormaybe it's not just Western culture, but
why do you think that we fear dead bodiesso much and how can we find a way of
shifting that perspective for ourselvesto not find dead bodies as frightening
or as scary as we might think they are.
(52:41):
It's because we've been taught to,that's the plain answer and we can
go back to being enslaved people.
Our slogan and mantra at the MulticulturalDeath and Grief Care Academy is that
culture is the medicine for grief.
I also believe culture is themedicine for the fear of death.
And so how can we move forward andmaybe not have that be the case?
(53:03):
I would encourage every ableminded adult or person to begin to
research your culture and what yourculture, your history, your lineage.
And I'm not just talking aboutyour mom and your grandma.
I'm talking about doing somereal deep diving into your
history, your personal history.
What are their belief systems aboutdeath, how do they interact with the dead?
(53:24):
And I can almost guarantee you that theyinteract with the dead very closely,
whether in spirit or in physical.
I so appreciate you talking to today.
Is there anything else that you feel likeyou wanna add that we missed or anything
that you want to close us off with?
I do think it, it would beirresponsible to not talk about
(53:49):
the spirit and the science of.
Being connected to peopleonce they have crossed on.
Some people refer to that asmediumship or ghost or hauntings
or whatever your words are.
And to piggyback off that last answerI don't believe that the connection
(54:09):
to our loved ones ends with death.
I believe it takes on a new form, anew language, a new system, and a lot
of times it's up to us to learn howto navigate those things and do with
that information, which you wish.
And that's really a beautifulbridge because next week we are
talking to a medium you're amazing.
(54:29):
Where can people find youif you want to be found?
I am the grave woman everywhere.
You can visit the grave woman.com orjust type in the grave woman at, go on
Google and I will pop up on YouTube,Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest.
Wherever you go, I'm everywhere.
Amazing.
You are absolutely wonderful.
(54:50):
Thank you so much for talking tome and helping to expand people's
minds, shift people's perspectives.
I know that people are gonna absolutelylove, not just this episode, but
love you oh, thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Thank you for having me.
This has been amazing and thankyou and your sisters for doing the
(55:11):
amazing work that you're doing.
I know it is like I'm givingyou my Cat Williams judge.
This is gonna makeripples in the universe.
Got
some your lips to goddess, his ears, baby.
I told you that wasgonna be quite the ride.
So far in this perspective shifton death, dying in the afterlife.
(55:31):
We've gone from caring for the dying andpreparing for death in weeks one and two
when we sat down with Kim St. Straver totalk about the practical side of dying.
And this week, of course, Joel walkedus through the signs of death and
what happens when our bodies die.
Next week, we'll move intothe energetic perspective on
death with medium, Rachel Aio.
We're gonna explore what happensto our energy, our consciousness,
(55:52):
and our soul when we cross over.
And we'll seek to answer the question,does the afterlife really exist?
I promise you will not wanna miss it.
If you love the show, don't forgetto like, follow, and subscribe.
This is the Hanged Woman Podcast,where perspective is power.
We'll be back next week.
Until then, hang in there, seeker.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.