August 27, 2025 • 17 mins
This recap episode unpacks a complex discussion about escalating violence in Mexico, focusing on the historical and contemporary operations of drug cartels. It highlights the brutal tactics employed by cartels, including torture and sophisticated body disposal methods, and examines the normalisation of this violence within Mexican society. The conversation also unpacks the deep infiltration of cartels into Mexican politics and law enforcement, and discusses the US's historical involvement in destabilising the region, including past operations that inadvertently armed cartels. Finally, it considers the potential for increased US military intervention and the broader geopolitical implications of the ongoing conflict, suggesting a future where both nations must cooperate to find a resolution.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Joe Rogan Recap, where we peel back the layers on
complex topics to give you a shortcut to being truly well
informed. Today we're diving deep into a
recent conversation that really covered a lot of ground.
We're talking ancient civilizations, modern Mexico,
the cartels, the US relationship.
It's complex. We've got some incredible source
(00:20):
material here, insights from someone who's really seen things
first hand. So our mission today is to
unpack Mexico's rich and often violent history, see how it
connects to today's conflicts, and look at that tangled
relationship with the US. Yeah, what's really striking
about this source material is how it draws this line, this
through line from thousands of years ago right up to today.
(00:41):
You see these patterns of conflict, conquest, even
psychology just echoing. It's quite a journey from like
ceremonial sound warfare to modern cartel battles.
It shows this kind of unsettlingcontinuity.
OK, let's start that journey wayback.
The discussion kicked off with something really atmospheric and
frankly, chilling. Aztec death whistles.
What were these things? What was their role?
(01:02):
Right. These whistles, they weren't
just noisemakers. They were often crafted to sound
like, well, terrifying things. Jaguars, screaming owls, even
human screams. For the Mexican people, that's
MEXICA, the groups who built Tenochtitlan, who we usually
call Aztecs. So that terms a bit tricky.
We'll get to that. Exactly.
For them, these whistles were sophisticated psychological
(01:25):
warfare. They use them in what they call
flower wars. Flower Wars sounds almost
gentle. Deceptively so.
These were often about capturingpeople for sacrifice, not just
land. Imagine hundreds, maybe
thousands of these things screeching all night.
The goal? Deprive the enemy of sleep, so
absolute terror break their morale before the fighting even
(01:45):
started. It shows how integrated
psychological tactics were way back then.
That's incredible. And you mentioned the term Aztec
being tricky. The sources apparently dig into
this and how the Spanish conquest wasn't the simple black
and white story we sometimes gettaught.
Absolutely, Tech is more of a modern label for a collection of
different Mexican tribes and theSpanish, well they didn't just
(02:05):
show up and conquer alone. These conquistadors from they
were just coming off centuries of Moorish rule in Spain.
They were already a racially mixed group themselves.
They were smart politically speaking.
They allied with indigenous groups who hated the Mexico like
the Tlax. Kalin's hated them because of
the dominance, the tribute, the sacrifices.
There was a story about that. Wasn't there a pretty grim 1?
(02:27):
Yeah, a gruesome 1. The sources mentioned that
Slacks Kalin supposedly served captured Mexico tax collectors
in a Stew to their Spanish allies.
Just to show, you know, we're onyour side.
We despise these guys and this whole complex situation, these
alliances. It led to the misty Zahe, this
deep mixing of cultures, of bloodlines that really defines
Mexico. But that mixing has its own
(02:49):
issues now. That's the tragic irony.
Sometimes the sources touch on this idea of a kind of cultural
self loathing where modern Mexicans might blame the Spanish
invaders while being the literalembodiment of that mix.
It's complicated. OK, and what about the Mayans?
The popular idea is they just vanished.
Our sources say otherwise. Oh yeah, that's a huge myth the
sources debunked pretty strongly.
(03:10):
The Mayan people didn't vanish at all.
Their descendants are right there in southern Mexico.
You can see people who look justlike the figures in the ancient
art and their culture incrediblyadvanced.
Look at Chichen. It's at the engineering, the
astronomy centuries ahead of itstime, long before Europeans
arrive, the. Stone structures are mind
boggling. Totally, and the sources get
into their ceremonies to use of psychedelic plants for visions,
(03:34):
that kind of thing, but also some pretty shocking stuff.
Like self harm. Yes, ritual bloodletting.
Priests pulling ropes studded with thorns through well,
sensitive body parts to induce visions and offer blood.
Really intense self mortification.
And here's a fascinating point from the sources.
This emphasis on suffering, on blood sacrifice for spiritual
(03:56):
reasons, actually had this weird, dark overlap with the
Catholic worldview the Spanish brought.
It might have been an unexpected, if disturbing, point
of connection. So bringing this ancient history
together, the psychological warfare, the complicated
conquest, the ritual violence, the massive scale of human
sacrifice, how does this help usunderstand Mexico's ongoing
(04:16):
struggles with violence today? It provides A crucial if deeply
unsettling foundation. The sources are clear.
Human sacrifice wasn't some fringe thing or an exaggeration.
It was widespread, documented intheir own courtesies, seen in
the archaeology, those some thatleave the skull racks, real
things. Spanish accounts even talk about
the specific dark smell around the pyramids after huge
(04:37):
sacrifices, 10s of thousands of people potentially for just one
temple dedication like. 50,000 to 80,000 The numbers are
staggering. Staggering.
And this deep, deep history of normalized brutality, of using
extreme violence for power, for ritual, for psychological
control, it arguably created a kind of cultural template.
It doesn't excuse modern violence, obviously, but it
(04:58):
helps explain why it might feel so tragically endemic, almost
like a recurring language of conflict that echoes even now in
cartel tactics. It makes the modern horror
slightly more well understandable in its historical
context. OK, let's shift gears then.
From those ancient echoes to themodern horrors, The sources
describe a truly disturbing normalization of extreme
(05:19):
violence in Mexico today. What kind of examples came up?
It's grim. The sources talk about how in
some places, hanging a body froma bridge is seen as almost a
kindness because the family can at least find the body for
burial. A kindness compared to
disappearing completely. Yes.
Beheadings, massacres, torture. They're described as part of the
landscape, things people witness.
(05:41):
Then just go back to work. There's a numbness.
And this isn't entirely new, right?
There were precursors. Definitely.
The sources mentioned the 90s figures like Adolfo Constanzo,
so-called Narco Satanist. He was doing these dark ritual
sacrifices, even kidnapped an American student.
Mark Kilroy apparently needed a brain for his cauldron.
That really shocked Americans back then, gave them a glimpse
(06:02):
into this darkness. Just terrific.
And how did these groups evolve from, say, Constanza's era or
earlier drug runners into the militarized forces we see now?
It's been a significant evolution.
They started forming more seriously in the 70s and 80s,
mostly moving heroin from poppies that were ironically
first cultivated more widely to deal with morphine shortages
(06:22):
during WWII in Vietnam. But the real game changer,
according to the sources? The Zetas.
These were the ex military guys.Exactly.
Former Mexican special forces, many trained at Fort Bragg in
the US. They defected and brought
military discipline, tactics andbrutality to the cartel world.
Guerrilla warfare, sophisticatedpropaganda, Those horrifying
public execution videos, they basically rewrote the playbook.
(06:45):
And that led to groups like CJ and G.
Precisely the cartel Jalisco, Nuevo, Generacion, CJ and G.
They actually started as a grouphunting the Zetas like a
paramilitary force fighting back.
But they learned. They absorbed all the textbook
learning processes as the sources put at the Zetas
tactics, the older cartels networks and became this
incredibly powerful hyperviolentorganization that now controls
(07:07):
huge parts of Mexico. This level of organization and
violence, how deeply does it connect with the political
system? The sources paint a picture of
profound infiltration. It's incredibly deep.
It's like a feedback loop really.
The corruption enables the cartels and the cartels power
deepens the corruption. The sources point to the
previous administration's hugs not bullets policy under AMLO.
(07:30):
Good intentions? Maybe, but it arguably created a
power vacuum the cartels just rushed into, leading to one of
the most violent periods in Mexican history.
They're running candidates now. Openly influencing mayors,
Police chiefs? The statistic that jumped out
from the sources was what, up to60 politicians assassinated just
in the 2024 election cycle? 60 That's unbelievable.
(07:52):
It shows direct, lethal political control.
The sources even draw parallel, maybe controversially, to things
like pharmaceutical lobbying in other countries, a powerful
force fundamentally shaping governance.
But here it's enforced with bullets.
So with that kind of power and infiltration, what do their
operations look like on the ground?
Recruitment money. Fentanyl.
(08:12):
They're using modern tools, recruiting openly on tech talk
apparently ads using coded language like 4 letters maybe
for CJ and G, flashing cash, promising a way out of poverty,
however brutal. TikTok recruit.
Yeah, there's this vivid story in the sources.
An Uber driver, desperate, callsthe number from TikTok.
He gets picked up, subjected to a police test, basically
(08:34):
tortured by actual uniformed police who are working for the
cartel to see if he'll break or talk.
Then he gets trained by active duty Mexican military, Colombian
specialists, maybe even Americancontractors, the sources
suggest, in these hidden camps. And their money isn't just drugs
anymore. Far from it.
They're deep into fuel theft. Kwachi coal it's called
siphoning oil from pipelines, massive business and even
(08:56):
avocados controlling the green gold.
So my guacamole could be fundingcartels.
It's a disturbing thought, but yes, the sources suggest that
connection is real. Your grocery money could
indirectly fuel this violence. And fentanyl that's primarily
for export. That's the chilling strategy
described. Precursors mostly from China.
They apparently test it locally,see the effects, but they
(09:18):
strictly control it. Anyone caught selling it within
Mexico might get killed by the cartels themselves.
It's treated almost purely as anexport poison targeted at the US
market. And disposal of rivals systems.
Highly organized and horrific methods like dissolving bodies
in diesel drums puzzle they gruesomely call it.
We're using caustic soda to create this pink slurry.
(09:41):
It's why there are over 100,000 officially missing people and
the real number is likely much much higher.
It's just relentless darkness. But the sources did include a
very human story amidst this, didn't they?
The experts own struggles. Yes, and it was powerful.
A really candid account of dealing with PTSD, severe
alcohol addiction. After years witnessing this
(10:02):
horror up close. He described going cold Turkey,
the brutal withdrawal, the struggle and then finding
support. Actually getting sponsored in
sobriety by Randy Blythe, the singer from Lamb of God.
Wow, unlikely connection. Right.
But it speaks to that human resilience.
Even facing this level of trauma, people fight back, find
help, try to heal. It's a crucial counterpoint to
the despair. Definitely.
(10:23):
Now let's shift focus slightly to the US role in all this.
Sources brought up Operation Fast and Furious.
Remind us what that was and why it's so controversial.
Right, Fast and Furious. This was under the Obama
administration, though it followed a similar Bush era
program. The official idea was let's draw
purchasers, dye guns in the US knowingly, let them smuggle them
(10:43):
into Mexico, let them walk. Exactly.
Let the guns walk, supposedly soUS agents could track them to
high level cartel figures. That was the plan, anyway.
At. The outcome?
A disaster. According to the sources, they
lost track of many guns. Weapons like Barrett .50 Kel
sniper rifles, FN 5 Sevens cop killer pistols turned up at
horrific crime scenes in Mexico,used to kill Mexican police,
(11:05):
soldiers, civilians, and tragically used in the killing
of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
So the guns meant to be tracked were used against US agents.
And the deepest implication, thesuspicion raised in the sources,
is whether it was just incompetence or if the US
government was intentionally letting guns flow to one
specific cartel, maybe Sinaloa, to help them fight rivals like
(11:26):
the Zetas, effectively taking sides in the cartel war.
It shattered trust. That raises so many questions.
And sticking with controversial US connections, the sources
touched on theories about the CIA and drug dealing,
referencing figures like MichaelReppert.
Yeah, that definitely falls intothe more provocative territory.
But it was mentioned the idea floated by people like Reppert,
(11:47):
a former LAPD officer turned investigator, was that the CIA
has historically been involved, maybe even facilitated drug
trafficking for its own covert ends.
He testified about seeing CIA selling drugs in LA.
He did very publicly on C-SPAN. The sources connect this to the
Post 911 landscape, suggesting maybe the US found it easier or
(12:08):
strategically necessary to deal with the cartels who really
control the border, rather than a potentially compromised
Mexican government. Pure speculation, but it taps
into deep distrust. Exactly these theories, whether
true or not, they highlight thisundercurrent of suspicion about
hidden agendas and murky dealings beneath the official
surface of US Mexico relations. OK, let's bring this closer to
(12:29):
the present day, the border itself.
The sources described a really difficult, complex picture of
immigration policy and its humancost.
Very much so. It highlighted the stark
differences between administrations and the real
world consequences. Under the Biden administration's
initial policies, described by sources as effectively open
borders, there were horrifying accounts of increased human
(12:51):
trafficking. Children being drugged.
Yes, children drugged given colored arm bands by smugglers
for easier sorting and processing, essentially on the
US side by NGOs or authorities. It painted a picture of
exploitation being almost systematized.
While legal, immigration remainshard.
Almost impossible for the poor and unconnected.
Described as a bureaucratic nightmare.
(13:13):
And then you have the history ofdeportations under various
presidents. Obama, Bush, Clinton deported
millions. Trump, too, and Biden recently
ramped up. Right.
The numbers are huge across administrations, and the sources
described this overcorrection leading to tragic situations
like deporting people raised in the US who barely speak Spanish
back to dangerous places like Tijuana.
Caught between worlds treated like statistics.
(13:35):
It's a humanitarian mess. So putting all these pieces
together, the deep history, the cartel power, the US
involvement, the border dynamics, what's the bigger
geopolitical picture here? The sources seem to suggest
Mexico is a critical, maybe evendangerous, flashpoint.
Absolutely. A pressure cooker.
Yeah. And several major players are
(13:55):
involved, according to the sources.
China's a big one, not just sending fentanyl precursors and
chemists. But laundering money too?
Yes, allegedly facilitating massive cartel money laundering
through Chinese banks and businesses.
The implication? China might see destabilizing
the US via the opioid crisis andborder chaos as strategically
beneficial. And other regional players.
(14:17):
Venezuela and Cuba are mentioned.
The current Mexican administration has ties there.
the US even has a $50 million bounty on Maduro, Venezuela's
president, for drug trafficking.And now you have Venezuelan
gangs operating in Mexico. It adds layers of complexity,
potential proxy conflicts. And all this while Mexico is
potentially the next China economically.
That's the crucial tension Mexico has the industry, the
(14:39):
workforce, the location. It's perfectly positioned for
near shoring, for becoming this huge manufacturing hub for North
America. the US needs a stable, functional Mexico for its own
economic security. But that very potential makes
Mexico a target for destabilization by rivals.
It's a paradox. And the US isn't just watching.
There are actions being taken. Definitely not just watching.
(15:02):
The sources describe ongoing calculated surgical operations,
like the arrest of El Maio Zambada, a top Sinaloa guy,
which apparently happened in Texas.
In Texas, not Mexico. That's what the sources claimed,
and it supposedly sparked open warfare back in Sinaloa, with
the cartels blaming the US, Mexico, even charging the
alleged abductor with treason. It shows how entangled things
(15:24):
are. Drones mapping targets, talk of
intervention. Yes, US drones are reportedly
mapping cartel targets inside Mexico, and there's serious
talk, apparently, about direct U.S. military action.
Here's the catch. The Mexican military's warning.
Exactly. They apparently warned the US.
If you come in, you might unite all these warring cartels
against a common enemy. You they'll become freedom
(15:45):
fighters in the eyes of some, and you'll have an even bigger
war on your hands. A massive potential blowback.
So wrapping this all up, what does this deep dive really kill
us? It feels like the fates of the
US and Mexico are just completely locked together.
Inextricably, that's the word that the sources really drive
home. History, culture, economics,
genetics, even. They're bound together.
(16:07):
The idea of open war or a completely sealed border, both
are presented as catastrophic scenarios.
It could trigger uncontrollable migration, economic collapse for
both, and possibly unite the very criminal groups the US
wants to fight. And the experts own story,
finding the American Dream just despite everything.
Yeah, it stands as this testament to the opportunity
(16:27):
that still exists, but also a stark warning that dream, the
stability of both countries, it feels like it's under attack
from, well, from all sides. Ancient violence patterns
meeting modern geopolitical games.
Which leaves us with a really challenging question for you,
our listener. Thinking about everything we've
unpacked the deep roots of violence, the systemic
corruption, the foreign interference, the complex US
(16:49):
role. How can the US and Mexico
possibly find a way forward, A path that actually tackles these
huge problems without just making things worse, without
triggering those catastrophic blowbacks we just talked about,
is a heavy thought, but vital for understanding where a shared
continent might be heading.
Welcome to the Joe Rogan Recap, where we peel back the layers on
complex topics to give you a shortcut to being truly well
informed. Today we're diving deep into a
recent conversation that really covered a lot of ground.
We're talking ancient civilizations, modern Mexico,
the cartels, the US relationship.
It's complex. We've got some incredible source
(00:20):
material here, insights from someone who's really seen things
first hand. So our mission today is to
unpack Mexico's rich and often violent history, see how it
connects to today's conflicts, and look at that tangled
relationship with the US. Yeah, what's really striking
about this source material is how it draws this line, this
through line from thousands of years ago right up to today.
(00:41):
You see these patterns of conflict, conquest, even
psychology just echoing. It's quite a journey from like
ceremonial sound warfare to modern cartel battles.
It shows this kind of unsettlingcontinuity.
OK, let's start that journey wayback.
The discussion kicked off with something really atmospheric and
frankly, chilling. Aztec death whistles.
What were these things? What was their role?
(01:02):
Right. These whistles, they weren't
just noisemakers. They were often crafted to sound
like, well, terrifying things. Jaguars, screaming owls, even
human screams. For the Mexican people, that's
MEXICA, the groups who built Tenochtitlan, who we usually
call Aztecs. So that terms a bit tricky.
We'll get to that. Exactly.
For them, these whistles were sophisticated psychological
(01:25):
warfare. They use them in what they call
flower wars. Flower Wars sounds almost
gentle. Deceptively so.
These were often about capturingpeople for sacrifice, not just
land. Imagine hundreds, maybe
thousands of these things screeching all night.
The goal? Deprive the enemy of sleep, so
absolute terror break their morale before the fighting even
(01:45):
started. It shows how integrated
psychological tactics were way back then.
That's incredible. And you mentioned the term Aztec
being tricky. The sources apparently dig into
this and how the Spanish conquest wasn't the simple black
and white story we sometimes gettaught.
Absolutely, Tech is more of a modern label for a collection of
different Mexican tribes and theSpanish, well they didn't just
(02:05):
show up and conquer alone. These conquistadors from they
were just coming off centuries of Moorish rule in Spain.
They were already a racially mixed group themselves.
They were smart politically speaking.
They allied with indigenous groups who hated the Mexico like
the Tlax. Kalin's hated them because of
the dominance, the tribute, the sacrifices.
There was a story about that. Wasn't there a pretty grim 1?
(02:27):
Yeah, a gruesome 1. The sources mentioned that
Slacks Kalin supposedly served captured Mexico tax collectors
in a Stew to their Spanish allies.
Just to show, you know, we're onyour side.
We despise these guys and this whole complex situation, these
alliances. It led to the misty Zahe, this
deep mixing of cultures, of bloodlines that really defines
Mexico. But that mixing has its own
(02:49):
issues now. That's the tragic irony.
Sometimes the sources touch on this idea of a kind of cultural
self loathing where modern Mexicans might blame the Spanish
invaders while being the literalembodiment of that mix.
It's complicated. OK, and what about the Mayans?
The popular idea is they just vanished.
Our sources say otherwise. Oh yeah, that's a huge myth the
sources debunked pretty strongly.
(03:10):
The Mayan people didn't vanish at all.
Their descendants are right there in southern Mexico.
You can see people who look justlike the figures in the ancient
art and their culture incrediblyadvanced.
Look at Chichen. It's at the engineering, the
astronomy centuries ahead of itstime, long before Europeans
arrive, the. Stone structures are mind
boggling. Totally, and the sources get
into their ceremonies to use of psychedelic plants for visions,
(03:34):
that kind of thing, but also some pretty shocking stuff.
Like self harm. Yes, ritual bloodletting.
Priests pulling ropes studded with thorns through well,
sensitive body parts to induce visions and offer blood.
Really intense self mortification.
And here's a fascinating point from the sources.
This emphasis on suffering, on blood sacrifice for spiritual
(03:56):
reasons, actually had this weird, dark overlap with the
Catholic worldview the Spanish brought.
It might have been an unexpected, if disturbing, point
of connection. So bringing this ancient history
together, the psychological warfare, the complicated
conquest, the ritual violence, the massive scale of human
sacrifice, how does this help usunderstand Mexico's ongoing
(04:16):
struggles with violence today? It provides A crucial if deeply
unsettling foundation. The sources are clear.
Human sacrifice wasn't some fringe thing or an exaggeration.
It was widespread, documented intheir own courtesies, seen in
the archaeology, those some thatleave the skull racks, real
things. Spanish accounts even talk about
the specific dark smell around the pyramids after huge
(04:37):
sacrifices, 10s of thousands of people potentially for just one
temple dedication like. 50,000 to 80,000 The numbers are
staggering. Staggering.
And this deep, deep history of normalized brutality, of using
extreme violence for power, for ritual, for psychological
control, it arguably created a kind of cultural template.
It doesn't excuse modern violence, obviously, but it
(04:58):
helps explain why it might feel so tragically endemic, almost
like a recurring language of conflict that echoes even now in
cartel tactics. It makes the modern horror
slightly more well understandable in its historical
context. OK, let's shift gears then.
From those ancient echoes to themodern horrors, The sources
describe a truly disturbing normalization of extreme
(05:19):
violence in Mexico today. What kind of examples came up?
It's grim. The sources talk about how in
some places, hanging a body froma bridge is seen as almost a
kindness because the family can at least find the body for
burial. A kindness compared to
disappearing completely. Yes.
Beheadings, massacres, torture. They're described as part of the
landscape, things people witness.
(05:41):
Then just go back to work. There's a numbness.
And this isn't entirely new, right?
There were precursors. Definitely.
The sources mentioned the 90s figures like Adolfo Constanzo,
so-called Narco Satanist. He was doing these dark ritual
sacrifices, even kidnapped an American student.
Mark Kilroy apparently needed a brain for his cauldron.
That really shocked Americans back then, gave them a glimpse
(06:02):
into this darkness. Just terrific.
And how did these groups evolve from, say, Constanza's era or
earlier drug runners into the militarized forces we see now?
It's been a significant evolution.
They started forming more seriously in the 70s and 80s,
mostly moving heroin from poppies that were ironically
first cultivated more widely to deal with morphine shortages
(06:22):
during WWII in Vietnam. But the real game changer,
according to the sources? The Zetas.
These were the ex military guys.Exactly.
Former Mexican special forces, many trained at Fort Bragg in
the US. They defected and brought
military discipline, tactics andbrutality to the cartel world.
Guerrilla warfare, sophisticatedpropaganda, Those horrifying
public execution videos, they basically rewrote the playbook.
(06:45):
And that led to groups like CJ and G.
Precisely the cartel Jalisco, Nuevo, Generacion, CJ and G.
They actually started as a grouphunting the Zetas like a
paramilitary force fighting back.
But they learned. They absorbed all the textbook
learning processes as the sources put at the Zetas
tactics, the older cartels networks and became this
incredibly powerful hyperviolentorganization that now controls
(07:07):
huge parts of Mexico. This level of organization and
violence, how deeply does it connect with the political
system? The sources paint a picture of
profound infiltration. It's incredibly deep.
It's like a feedback loop really.
The corruption enables the cartels and the cartels power
deepens the corruption. The sources point to the
previous administration's hugs not bullets policy under AMLO.
(07:30):
Good intentions? Maybe, but it arguably created a
power vacuum the cartels just rushed into, leading to one of
the most violent periods in Mexican history.
They're running candidates now. Openly influencing mayors,
Police chiefs? The statistic that jumped out
from the sources was what, up to60 politicians assassinated just
in the 2024 election cycle? 60 That's unbelievable.
(07:52):
It shows direct, lethal political control.
The sources even draw parallel, maybe controversially, to things
like pharmaceutical lobbying in other countries, a powerful
force fundamentally shaping governance.
But here it's enforced with bullets.
So with that kind of power and infiltration, what do their
operations look like on the ground?
Recruitment money. Fentanyl.
(08:12):
They're using modern tools, recruiting openly on tech talk
apparently ads using coded language like 4 letters maybe
for CJ and G, flashing cash, promising a way out of poverty,
however brutal. TikTok recruit.
Yeah, there's this vivid story in the sources.
An Uber driver, desperate, callsthe number from TikTok.
He gets picked up, subjected to a police test, basically
(08:34):
tortured by actual uniformed police who are working for the
cartel to see if he'll break or talk.
Then he gets trained by active duty Mexican military, Colombian
specialists, maybe even Americancontractors, the sources
suggest, in these hidden camps. And their money isn't just drugs
anymore. Far from it.
They're deep into fuel theft. Kwachi coal it's called
siphoning oil from pipelines, massive business and even
(08:56):
avocados controlling the green gold.
So my guacamole could be fundingcartels.
It's a disturbing thought, but yes, the sources suggest that
connection is real. Your grocery money could
indirectly fuel this violence. And fentanyl that's primarily
for export. That's the chilling strategy
described. Precursors mostly from China.
They apparently test it locally,see the effects, but they
(09:18):
strictly control it. Anyone caught selling it within
Mexico might get killed by the cartels themselves.
It's treated almost purely as anexport poison targeted at the US
market. And disposal of rivals systems.
Highly organized and horrific methods like dissolving bodies
in diesel drums puzzle they gruesomely call it.
We're using caustic soda to create this pink slurry.
(09:41):
It's why there are over 100,000 officially missing people and
the real number is likely much much higher.
It's just relentless darkness. But the sources did include a
very human story amidst this, didn't they?
The experts own struggles. Yes, and it was powerful.
A really candid account of dealing with PTSD, severe
alcohol addiction. After years witnessing this
(10:02):
horror up close. He described going cold Turkey,
the brutal withdrawal, the struggle and then finding
support. Actually getting sponsored in
sobriety by Randy Blythe, the singer from Lamb of God.
Wow, unlikely connection. Right.
But it speaks to that human resilience.
Even facing this level of trauma, people fight back, find
help, try to heal. It's a crucial counterpoint to
the despair. Definitely.
(10:23):
Now let's shift focus slightly to the US role in all this.
Sources brought up Operation Fast and Furious.
Remind us what that was and why it's so controversial.
Right, Fast and Furious. This was under the Obama
administration, though it followed a similar Bush era
program. The official idea was let's draw
purchasers, dye guns in the US knowingly, let them smuggle them
(10:43):
into Mexico, let them walk. Exactly.
Let the guns walk, supposedly soUS agents could track them to
high level cartel figures. That was the plan, anyway.
At. The outcome?
A disaster. According to the sources, they
lost track of many guns. Weapons like Barrett .50 Kel
sniper rifles, FN 5 Sevens cop killer pistols turned up at
horrific crime scenes in Mexico,used to kill Mexican police,
(11:05):
soldiers, civilians, and tragically used in the killing
of US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
So the guns meant to be tracked were used against US agents.
And the deepest implication, thesuspicion raised in the sources,
is whether it was just incompetence or if the US
government was intentionally letting guns flow to one
specific cartel, maybe Sinaloa, to help them fight rivals like
(11:26):
the Zetas, effectively taking sides in the cartel war.
It shattered trust. That raises so many questions.
And sticking with controversial US connections, the sources
touched on theories about the CIA and drug dealing,
referencing figures like MichaelReppert.
Yeah, that definitely falls intothe more provocative territory.
But it was mentioned the idea floated by people like Reppert,
(11:47):
a former LAPD officer turned investigator, was that the CIA
has historically been involved, maybe even facilitated drug
trafficking for its own covert ends.
He testified about seeing CIA selling drugs in LA.
He did very publicly on C-SPAN. The sources connect this to the
Post 911 landscape, suggesting maybe the US found it easier or
(12:08):
strategically necessary to deal with the cartels who really
control the border, rather than a potentially compromised
Mexican government. Pure speculation, but it taps
into deep distrust. Exactly these theories, whether
true or not, they highlight thisundercurrent of suspicion about
hidden agendas and murky dealings beneath the official
surface of US Mexico relations. OK, let's bring this closer to
(12:29):
the present day, the border itself.
The sources described a really difficult, complex picture of
immigration policy and its humancost.
Very much so. It highlighted the stark
differences between administrations and the real
world consequences. Under the Biden administration's
initial policies, described by sources as effectively open
borders, there were horrifying accounts of increased human
(12:51):
trafficking. Children being drugged.
Yes, children drugged given colored arm bands by smugglers
for easier sorting and processing, essentially on the
US side by NGOs or authorities. It painted a picture of
exploitation being almost systematized.
While legal, immigration remainshard.
Almost impossible for the poor and unconnected.
Described as a bureaucratic nightmare.
(13:13):
And then you have the history ofdeportations under various
presidents. Obama, Bush, Clinton deported
millions. Trump, too, and Biden recently
ramped up. Right.
The numbers are huge across administrations, and the sources
described this overcorrection leading to tragic situations
like deporting people raised in the US who barely speak Spanish
back to dangerous places like Tijuana.
Caught between worlds treated like statistics.
(13:35):
It's a humanitarian mess. So putting all these pieces
together, the deep history, the cartel power, the US
involvement, the border dynamics, what's the bigger
geopolitical picture here? The sources seem to suggest
Mexico is a critical, maybe evendangerous, flashpoint.
Absolutely. A pressure cooker.
Yeah. And several major players are
(13:55):
involved, according to the sources.
China's a big one, not just sending fentanyl precursors and
chemists. But laundering money too?
Yes, allegedly facilitating massive cartel money laundering
through Chinese banks and businesses.
The implication? China might see destabilizing
the US via the opioid crisis andborder chaos as strategically
beneficial. And other regional players.
(14:17):
Venezuela and Cuba are mentioned.
The current Mexican administration has ties there.
the US even has a $50 million bounty on Maduro, Venezuela's
president, for drug trafficking.And now you have Venezuelan
gangs operating in Mexico. It adds layers of complexity,
potential proxy conflicts. And all this while Mexico is
potentially the next China economically.
That's the crucial tension Mexico has the industry, the
(14:39):
workforce, the location. It's perfectly positioned for
near shoring, for becoming this huge manufacturing hub for North
America. the US needs a stable, functional Mexico for its own
economic security. But that very potential makes
Mexico a target for destabilization by rivals.
It's a paradox. And the US isn't just watching.
There are actions being taken. Definitely not just watching.
(15:02):
The sources describe ongoing calculated surgical operations,
like the arrest of El Maio Zambada, a top Sinaloa guy,
which apparently happened in Texas.
In Texas, not Mexico. That's what the sources claimed,
and it supposedly sparked open warfare back in Sinaloa, with
the cartels blaming the US, Mexico, even charging the
alleged abductor with treason. It shows how entangled things
(15:24):
are. Drones mapping targets, talk of
intervention. Yes, US drones are reportedly
mapping cartel targets inside Mexico, and there's serious
talk, apparently, about direct U.S. military action.
Here's the catch. The Mexican military's warning.
Exactly. They apparently warned the US.
If you come in, you might unite all these warring cartels
against a common enemy. You they'll become freedom
(15:45):
fighters in the eyes of some, and you'll have an even bigger
war on your hands. A massive potential blowback.
So wrapping this all up, what does this deep dive really kill
us? It feels like the fates of the
US and Mexico are just completely locked together.
Inextricably, that's the word that the sources really drive
home. History, culture, economics,
genetics, even. They're bound together.
(16:07):
The idea of open war or a completely sealed border, both
are presented as catastrophic scenarios.
It could trigger uncontrollable migration, economic collapse for
both, and possibly unite the very criminal groups the US
wants to fight. And the experts own story,
finding the American Dream just despite everything.
Yeah, it stands as this testament to the opportunity
(16:27):
that still exists, but also a stark warning that dream, the
stability of both countries, it feels like it's under attack
from, well, from all sides. Ancient violence patterns
meeting modern geopolitical games.
Which leaves us with a really challenging question for you,
our listener. Thinking about everything we've
unpacked the deep roots of violence, the systemic
corruption, the foreign interference, the complex US
(16:49):
role. How can the US and Mexico
possibly find a way forward, A path that actually tackles these
huge problems without just making things worse, without
triggering those catastrophic blowbacks we just talked about,
is a heavy thought, but vital for understanding where a shared
continent might be heading.
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