May 30, 2025 • 36 mins
When Dr. Joel Freeman left home at 17 with just $24 in his pocket, nobody could have predicted his extraordinary journey from self-described "long-haired, hippie, dope-smoking fool" to becoming a respected NBA chaplain, author of 24 books, historian, and mentor to countless individuals including Klimb host Adrian Branch.
This powerful conversation reveals the pivotal moments that transformed Freeman's life, beginning with his spiritual conversion in 1972 and the crucial lesson he learned about finishing what you start while painting a farmer's tractor. With disarming honesty, he shares a moment of profound temptation during his time as a school principal that could have derailed everything he'd built—and the clarity that helped him overcome it.
Freeman's insights on blind spots prove particularly illuminating. "When you're in a jar, you can't read the label," he explains, emphasizing why we need trusted people to help us see what we can't recognize in ourselves. This wisdom has shaped his approach to mentorship and his understanding that most personal conflicts stem from personality differences rather than demographic factors.
Now the creator of Black History 365—a comprehensive curriculum used in over 15,000 schools—and the innovative Rosetta Universe project, Freeman continues pushing boundaries at every stage of life. His remarkable ability to communicate complex concepts simply allows him to "talk to the street and talk to the elite," making profound wisdom accessible to all.
The conversation culminates with Dr. Freeman's research-backed observation stressing the importance interpersonal skills can factor in a person's success—a perspective that explains his extraordinary impact across multiple fields and diverse audiences.
Be sure to follow Adrian Branch Speaks on social media and download The Klimb wherever podcasts are available. Remember, everything worthwhile is uphill—so be encouraged and keep klimbing.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Adrian Branch , former pro-athlete turned
motivational speaker andcertified life coach, and
welcome to the Climb, a showwhere we celebrate the stories
of resilient people sharing howthey turned adversity into
success, From the businesssector to athletes and beyond.
Be inspired and learn what ittakes to climb.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, hey, everybody, how you doing?
Welcome to another episode ofthe Climb.
I'm your host, adrian Branch,and this show is intentional
about bringing you stories ofpeople and their resilience, how
they've overcome, what's theirmindset.
If they can do it, I can do ittoo.
We want you to take theselessons because we believe
there's some great lessons thatyou can take.
(00:46):
And think about it.
Everything worthwhile is uphill.
It takes climbing, it takesbeing intentional, it takes
being consistent.
Well, this guest today is afriend, a mentor, so decorated.
I've known him for the last 30years, half of my adult life,
and he's made such greatdeposits.
(01:08):
His name is Dr Joel Freeman.
He's an author of over 20 books, he's a dad, a granddad, he's a
philanthropist, an entrepreneur, and he is someone who's a
before the term was popularinfluencer.
He's a true influencer.
So the accolades are so long.
You'll hear some of his story,but we want you to come in here
(01:30):
and hear what he has to say.
So, dr Joel Freeman, welcome tothe show, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's good to be here, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, in your own words, I'll get started and say
you're also a very bad dancer,so I'm going to start some music
and let's get a big laugh outof how you can't dance.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It's true, it's true.
Every wedding, every wedding,they try to get my wife and I,
to you know, to dance, and I'mjust all painful all over.
It is painful painful.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Doc, there's so much to you.
I want to jump right in becauseI want our listeners to really
hear and get the spirit of whoyou are.
You were born in Maine.
You had most of your youngadult life in Alberta, canada,
and then, at 17, you struck outon your own.
But take it from there.
Tell us about how you got yourstart before you became a
(02:23):
character coach for so many richand famous pro athletes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, you know, growing up in Alberta, canada
was pretty incredible A littletown of 2000 people, nine ice
hockey rinks.
I was on the ice minimum two,three hours a day from end of
October to about the beginningof April, and we always had a
rink in the backyard.
It was just a most incredibleexperience.
(02:49):
At 17, I got a I don't know,just something, just a wild
horse, just want to leave home,had $24 in my pocket, my best
buddy at the time.
He and I left.
We looked like mutton Jeff, hewas 6'5" and I was barely
breaking 5'5" at the time and itjust was an incredible
(03:10):
experience.
Hitchhiking thousands of milesall around North America,
long-haired, hippie,dope-smoking fool.
And then I had a conversionexperience to the Jesus of the
Bible on September 10, 1972.
Turn turned my whole lifearound, Because you can imagine
seeing me at that time hair downthe middle of my back and just
a new hippie Jesus freak.
(03:32):
And then about seven yearslater I became one of the first
chaplains in the history of theNBA.
So I had to really attack a lotof juvenile thinking, juvenile
behavior and in order duringthose seven years, to play or to
work, to talk at that level.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Go back to this real quick, because I can't imagine
you being anyone's foo or beinga dope or smoking dope.
So I never get tired of hearingthat one where you say, man,
that's who I was.
But there's also a story whereyou talk about around that same
time and it was profound and youlearned the lesson from it
where you were painting a farmeror a neighbor's tractor and
(04:15):
then you cut out in the middleof the summer and that was a
teachable moment.
Tell our audience about thatand what you learned.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, during the summer months, while I was still
in high school, I worked onesummer at a pig farm.
I had about 400 pigs and that'sa whole nother story.
It's quite an interestingexperience.
And then two other summers Iwas in Litchfield, maine, and
working with Freddie and FloraWeeks, and so, you know, we did
(04:43):
a lot of haying and just lumber,did a lot of lumbering.
He had a huge, huge farm and sohe had a horse and you know all
just kind of stuff that farmersdo, and so I had a lot of
responsibility at that time onthe farm.
Well, he had a red tractor.
(05:03):
It was an old farm all tractorwhere you had the two wheels
close to each other on the frontand then, of course, the big
old wheels in the back.
And I looked at the cowl, Ilooked at the you know the
wheels, spokes and all that, andI thought, man, I could do this
fire engine red.
And so we went to the store.
I still remember going to thestore picking out the right kind
(05:24):
of paint, and and then I wentto, I came back and started
working on the sanding.
You know, wax on, wax off.
I was, I did that before.
That was cool, and, and so whathappened was I did the cowl
first, because that was theeasiest part, and so that looked
really cool, cool, I mean, itdid the whole thing sanding it.
(05:46):
And then I started looking atall the manure and all the crap
and all the stuff on the spokesof the wheels and other parts of
the tractor and I thought, Ithink that I think we got uh,
you know, we're just going tostick with this.
Well, next day, two days go byand freddie, you know, we kind
of look at the tractor togetherand he says, oh, you know, what
(06:07):
are you going to do?
You know what's happening here.
I says, well, I think I'vetaken as far as I can take it.
And then he just he asked me afew more questions and I never
saw Freddie get mad.
I think he even used a cussword and he was a good Christian
, you know, church-going guy,and he got really fired up and
(06:28):
he says when you start something, joel, you got to finish it.
Now finish that tractor.
And that taught me an awful lot,because in my early years I'd
get distracted, you know, likeoh there's a squirrel, oh that's
another bright, shiny object,and I get all excited about
projects, and then I wouldn'tfinish them.
And so then I determined I amgoing to finish what I start,
(06:51):
and then I would start projectsI shouldn't have started, but
then I'd finish them.
And I began to learn later onin life to make sure that if I'm
going to start something it'sworth finishing.
And that's that's kind of thethe genesis of how I grew in
that area and have grown.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I never forget that story because you finished it
and look about seven years later.
How did you become a charactercoach, a chaplain, one of the
first ones who's now called theWashington Wizards, but they
were the Washington Bullets atthe time, and that's before you
were 30 years old.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, there's a guy by the name of Bill Alexson.
He and I knew each other fromway back and he was starting to
work with the Celtics.
And so what happened is theBullets were playing the Celtics
and Elvin Hayes and KevinPorter came out to the pregame
chapel and I was you know, thisis all pre digital, no cell
(07:46):
phones or anything.
So he had their home number andgave them my home number and,
uh, I ended up, uh, calling uh,kevin Porter, who, uh, who just
became a dear friend, and he, wewent out to lunch and uh, he,
he really, uh, we reallyconnected.
And then what happened is Istarted as as a chaplain, had no
(08:08):
tickets, no, parking pass, no,no, no thing around my neck, you
know, around on my chest herethat says I'm chaplain and in
fact that that was for sevenyears.
I had none of that.
I just made friends with theparking people.
I made friends with the guy atthe door where the athletes come
in.
You know where that is, youknow.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Back tunnel and a back tunnel.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, and so I made friends with them.
They let me in early on andthen I'd find seat.
Back then the bullets, you know, weren't doing so well, they
just won the championship.
But there's somepost-championship excitement.
But you know, it was asituation where I would find a
seat If someone came and says,hey, that's my seat, oh, I'm so
sorry, and I'd move over acouple of seats and finally,
(08:53):
seven years later, there's a guythat came in who was a believer
and he was very high up in theorganization.
I think he lasted only one yearthere and he was talking to me.
He says so where do you sit?
And I said wherever.
He says you mean, you don'thave tickets, you don't have
season tickets for this.
I said no, and within the nextday I got two season tickets and
(09:15):
he put me in a very nice seat.
And then, of course, you knowit just was incredible.
I didn't.
I was like whoa, I got aparking pass.
Now I got two season tickets.
Oh, my goodness, this is, I'vedied and gone to heaven.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Man.
So that's interesting.
I'm hearing the fabric.
I'm hearing the fabric of youmaking the adjustments from
being a young minded personstriking out at 17, going around
that teachable moment that younever forget with the red
tractor.
Then you experience Christcoming into your heart as a
(09:46):
young person 1972, you went toBible college and then also you
came out and you started to bean influencer and a leader of
young people.
I want to move the story alonga little bit and say there was a
time in your life, if you'retalking about Bible stories,
that's almost like David andBathsheba.
From what I mean, it'stemptation, and this is where
(10:06):
I'm going.
I don't even know if youremember this one.
You were a principal, You're atthe top of your game, You're
respected, You're a chaplain andyou tell this story about a
young guy that got busted inyour school for drugs.
Instead of disposing themarijuana, you say you're
(10:27):
getting ready to go out in thefield and smoke it when no one
is around.
Like the temptation, like David.
Tell us about that story.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, this young kid, I think he was in ninth grade.
He had a nickel bag and so Iyou know he was all cool about
it.
Like you know, that's not mineor whatever.
So I thought this guy thistrouble here.
So what I did is I kept thenickel bag, I put it down.
I remember I had three drawerson the left side of my desk at
(10:57):
my office.
I put it way in the back of thethird drawer, the lowest drawer
, and I forgot about it becauseI thought if he starts lying, at
least I've got the evidencedrawer.
And I forgot about it because Ithought if he starts lying, at
least I've got the evidence here.
And I forgot all about it.
I think probably two years wentby, maybe three years, I don't
know and I was going through areal time of discouragement and
I was just kind of lookingthrough my desk I don't know,
(11:19):
maybe I was cleaning my desk outor something.
I pulled that out and, boom, Isaw that nickel bag of dope and
it was like, oh my goodness.
So I grabbed it, put it in mypocket and told my secretary
says I'll be gone for the restof the day, just hold my calls,
you know, and I'll get back tothem and I went to the 7-Eleven,
(11:39):
got some zigzag papers and Iwent to a place that I normally
went, uh, uh, you know, uh,hunting, deer hunting.
It's kind of a remote wood setof woods.
And so I sat there in my car Istill remember it was a Ford
Granada, silver color, and uh, Iwas, I had the door on a
propped open and I I just rolledmyself a big old doobie, you
(12:03):
know, and and I was about readyto strike the match, and it was.
I've never heard the Lord talk,but I got this very, very strong
impression that what I wasdoing was I was at a nexus, I
was at a crossroads and it wouldopen up the door to something
probably very bad.
(12:23):
Open up the door to somethingprobably very bad.
And so I just kind of held it,looked at it and just then I
started laughing at theludicrousy of the whole thing.
Like you said, all that resume,obituary type stuff happening,
radio talk show, tv show,bullets, chaplain, pastor, and
(12:43):
all this kind of stuff.
Father, husband and I, just I,just I started laughing and then
I just tore that thing up anddumped the whole nickel bag out
on the grass and I just wentback in the car and I just
started praising God and just awhole revival began to happen in
my life after that.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Let's park it there for a second, because this is
exactly why we're so excitedabout the show called the Climb.
You're at the top of your game,like you say obituary, resume,
kind of things.
You're celebrated, you have agreat reputation.
But, like David in the Bible,when he was at the top of his
game, when he should have beenat war, on post he saw Bathsheba
(13:25):
and the rest of the story washis household was never the same
again.
You could have gone so manydifferent ways.
Tell the listener out there youjust said one thing before you
even reached for the nickel bagyou were going through a tough
time.
And that's a lot of times whenpeople are vulnerable, when
they're going through a toughtime or they're at the top of
(13:45):
their game.
Tell the listener how youovercame that temptation where
you eventually could laugh at it.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, it's just like in the scripture when it talks
about King David.
It says just prior to that, itsays when kings were in battle
or should have been in battle,he wasn't in battle, he was
taking it easy R&R whileeveryone else was fighting on
behalf of the kingdom.
And so I think that you knowsin and temptation doesn't just
(14:14):
happen.
It all starts by leaning,leaning, leaning in a direction
and then leaning back and thenleaning over here.
And that's why, in the book ofPsalms David talks about.
He says I inclined my ear tothe Lord.
In other words, I leaned intoward the Lord restaurant and
there's a cacophony of noisesaround one or a couple or two or
(14:38):
three people.
You have someone leaning in tolisten better to the person
that's trying to talk in a low,hushed voice, and so leaning and
inclining.
We're not called to perfection,we're called to be leaners.
We incline in the direction ofrighteousness and truth and
(14:58):
peace and quietness and all therest that comes along with it.
And so many times what happensis that, you know, the devil can
transform himself into as aminister of righteousness, the
devil can become a roaring lion.
There's different tactics thatthe devil can use and sometimes,
like in the book of Solomon itsays that there are lions and
(15:20):
there are things on themountaintops, and so when we're
hit the mountaintops it seems asthough there are specialized
temptations.
It's not like the same old,same old type temptations, but
it's at a whole nother level oftemptation.
And I don't think the devil iscreative at all.
(15:42):
He has like one, two, three,four.
Okay, forgotten about numberone, let's go back to number one
again.
And so I don't know.
It's just the whole idea ofremaining vigilant in the word
and filled with the Holy Spiritin the Word and filled with the
Holy Spirit, with that point forthe public out there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Dr Joel trained me up 30 years ago, so he was our
character coach and I became amotivational speaker.
He taught us about tone, tactand timing.
Taught us about spacing like aspace like this.
Make intimate small gestures Ifyou're on a football field,
make super large gestures.
I want to talk about thisbecause I never forgot this as
well.
I know you probably rememberthis and I take it as it's my
own.
You talk about blind spots.
(16:28):
Blind spots to that point whereyou just talked about King
David and on the mountaintop andthe adversary coming.
One, two, three.
You told the story that blindspots on a 360 degree radius.
So in front of us, typically,what you see is 150 degrees 75
degrees to the right, 75 degreesto the left, so 150 degrees on
(16:48):
a peripheral, from earlobe toearlobe is 210 degrees.
My point is out of a 360 degreeradius, there's more things in
life that we don't see than whatwe do see.
My question to you is I'vestudied this as you taught me
this blind spots.
I think the blind spots thatmost people fall into and our
(17:10):
listeners could identify with isthe blind spot of pride.
I got this Pride fear,rejection and a lack of
knowledge.
I'd love to know your thoughtson something that you created.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yes, I think that you know.
One of the things is that whenyou're in a jar, you can't read
the label, and so it's importantyou know, in anyone, in any
type of situation, when you'rein a marriage, you're in a jar,
and sometimes we need people onthe outside to read the label
for us.
When we're in a neighborhoodassociation, we're in a jar.
When we're in a particular job,we're in a jar.
(17:47):
And that's why, when I was onthe board of a nonprofit one
time they said, oh, let's do aweekend or a Saturday, let's get
together and learn about eachother and understand.
And then they all looked at meand said, joel, this is what you
do, don't you?
And I said, yeah, but I'm inthe jar with you.
We need to bring someone fromthe outside.
(18:10):
So my point is is to be aware,and sometimes it's having people
that we invite into our livesand then we deputize them and
say will you be a label readerfor me, for my jar, because I
can't see everything.
And that's not the end all,because then it's also the whole
idea of being in the word.
(18:32):
I find that most that everychange in my life, minor or
major, has come because of beingin the Word.
It's not going to a seminarnecessarily.
I'm not an anti-seminar person,I do seminars.
It's not from reading a book.
I've written enough books 24 ofthem.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I believe 24.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
It's not coming from someone telling us what it's all
about.
I find that the Word of God iswhat really speaks to our hearts
and brings the correction alongwith it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Let me ask you this one.
So you're moving along, thetrain is on the tracks, you're
just everyday people, but yougive a darn and you're really
trying to make something of yourlife.
Give a darn and you're reallytrying to make something of your
life.
So you've gone from being achaplain along with being a
chaplain, a dad, a charactercoach, a mentor, to an Adrian
Branch and a lot of former proathletes.
(19:27):
Then you got into almost thesecond half of your working life
and you've been writingphenomenal books, like you have
one BH 365, black History 365,and that's created its own
weather pattern.
Tell us about that and thegenesis of writing that
phenomenal book.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I'll just show it to you right here.
It's a book that weighs fiveand a half pounds, about three
inches thick, has about 1200 QRcodes and about I'd say well,
well over 2,500 imagesthroughout.
It's like a museum in a book.
And the response that Dr Milton, Walter Milton and I we spent
(20:10):
two and a half years, 12, 16hour days, putting this together
, and we're just grateful andhumbled at the impact it seems
to be having us now in, I think,around 500 school districts
around the country, and so we'rejust really amazed at how
something so small could thenbecome what it is today and
(20:33):
perhaps where it will go in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and then also, so you're not stopping there.
So that's a curriculum that alot is in a Texas school system.
You've got over 15,000 schoolsthat are using that in the
curriculum, but then you're alsoheading out the Rosetta stone
replica project.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, that's something here.
It's called the RosettaUniverse and it's just basically
thanks for asking about this.
It's a very exciting thing thatI developed many years ago, or
I've started developing manyyears ago, maybe 20 years ago
prior or more, and so it allstarted when I had a crisis of
(21:18):
faith and I kept bumping intothe Rosetta Stone when I was
looking at the spade ofarchaeology in terms of
reliability of scripture, andthen it kind of put its claws in
me and next thing, you know,little by little, this whole
idea began to emerge ofdeveloping a 5,000 square foot
traveling exhibit, began toemerge of developing a 5,000
(21:39):
square foot traveling exhibit.
The first zone would be aboutthe Rosetta Stone, the history,
hieroglyphics, opening ofancient Egyptian secrets,
napoleon War, so it's such anepic drama.
And then moving into the secondphase aspect, about code
cracking.
You get a third base coach inbaseball going like this and
what is that the other team issaying is that right?
(22:00):
Is you got the Navajo codetalkers?
You have all kinds of differentthings that involve codes.
The third zone is aboutlanguage and culture, how the
two interact and sometimescollide.
And then the fourth zone.
I've taken the word Rosetta andI've developed seven steps for
solving pretty much any problemin about 10 categories of
problems.
So it's all transforming thisancient artifact into a modern
(22:23):
metaphor for problem solving andcritical thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, tell us why.
While you're right there on theRosetta Stone, tell us what it
is for those who don't know, andwhy is it significant?
It was like one of the top fivegreatest finds in the last 500
years.
So what is the Rosetta Stoneand what is its significance?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I'll do this in 90 seconds.
It was found in 1799, I shouldsay, on Earth, by Napoleonic
soldiers.
They found that, for instance,in with the Rosetta Stone.
The top part was hieroglyphics,the second part was a hieratic,
cursive form of hieroglyphics.
So that's exactly the samelanguage, but it's different
formats.
This top language is reachingthe religious class, the middle
(23:08):
is reaching the common people,and then, because it comes from
the word demis, we get the worddemocracy from it, and then
Greek, that's reaching thebusiness and government class,
and the messaging on it isfascinating, but it's not the
key thing.
The last sentence in the Greekwas the same thing will be
written in all threeinscriptions, and so, for the
(23:28):
first time in history, peopleare saying whoa, wait a minute,
this should be easy peasy, lemonsqueezy.
We know what the Greek says.
What do the other twoinscriptions say?
Well, it wasn't that easy.
It took 23 years to crack thecode.
They didn't know if it wasalphabetic, phonetic, you know,
symbolic, do you read?
(23:49):
Left to right, right to left?
They didn't know.
And so what happened is that ittook Thomas Young from England,
all these different peopleinvolved.
And then what happened?
In 1822, the code was cracked,which then unlocked the secrets.
And so it becomes like ametaphor hey, that's the Rosetta
Stone of genomics, hey, that'sthe Rosetta Stone of space
(24:11):
exploration, oh, that's theRosetta Stone of medicine.
And so now it's become its own.
It developed its own weatherpattern.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I'm just very excited about now transforming
it into a modern metaphor forproblem solving.
And tell us about it.
Was the top under top 20,significant right behind the
Bible?
Or something on the mostsignificant find in the last 500
years, something that wasprofound?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
500 years, something that was profound.
Yeah, I launched the project in2009 at the Library of Congress
with experts in hieroglyphicsand Egyptology.
There, they were quivering withexcitement and seeing the
replica that I'd created,because I'm the only one in the
world that's created a full-size3D replica.
There are museums all aroundthe world and so what happened
is that in 2013, I was watchingTV and the History Channel and
they had 101 objects thatchanged the world, and, of
(25:01):
course, they started with 101all the way up to number one.
Well, they got to number three,number one.
We'll start reverse.
Number one was the Bible,number two, coin money and
number three, rosetta Stone.
I thought, wait a minute, thatbeat out the wheel.
The Gutenberg press, a cup ofcoffee, what's going on here?
(25:24):
And so that's when I began tolook at things far more
seriously.
I said I must be missingsomething.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Foundationally.
I want to go back real quickbecause this is right around
when you talked about blindspots.
We can hear and I'm going touse your term we can hear the
music that you're making withsomeone and the excitement and
the passion that really has yourattention, but go back to that
time when you thought it was abig failure.
(25:53):
One of the biggest failures inyour life was when you were
going to write a free magazineover 25,000 copies and it
flopped in your mind.
So take us back before therewas big success.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I developed a magazine called Everyday Matters
and I thought, you know,because my heart is real
evangelism, and I thought, whatif I create a magazine that has
a couple layers to it, but it'sall about felt needs.
So I identified about 50 feltneeds and in terms of marriage,
living a single life, depression, men and their emotions, all
(26:33):
these different topics thatpeople think about, and I
thought these are greatconversation starters and I
thought, you know, this woman'snot going to have four spiritual
laws, it's not going to sharewith people how to accept Christ
.
It's going to be designed sothat people in a congregation
can take five or 10 of thesewith them to the grocery store.
Because my philosophy in lifeis that, hey, I went to the
(26:53):
grocery store to get a gallon ofmilk and a loaf of bread and
while I was there I shared Jesus.
Or, flip it around, I went tothe grocery store to share Jesus
and while I was there, I got agallon of milk and a loaf of
bread.
That's the way I live, it isthat way.
And so I'm on the plane, youknow, I'm there to share Jesus
and while I'm there I'm goingfrom point A to point B, and so
(27:15):
what happens is that whathappened with this magazine is,
I thought, what if we create anentrepreneurial side?
Well, youth groups that areconstantly playing out and
they're doing all kinds of carwashes and selling candy bars
and everything else, and theycome away after working hard,
hard, hard, and they come upwith $0.27.
(27:37):
And so what happened is that Ibegan to figure well, this is
not going to work.
And you know, I went to churchafter church after church around
the country and no one seemedto get it.
Only one church, church afterchurch around the country, and
no one seemed to get it.
Only one church.
(27:57):
After two years, I mean, I puta huge amount of hours every day
, every week, workday, you know,reaching out.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
How did you overcome that failure?
How did you overcome that flopwhere it could have been a real
bruise to your ego andcreativity?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Well, it's just like this is a magazine size.
So I created now a booklet, awhole new, and it came out.
This whole idea came out.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Hurricane bigotry.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Jack Johnson the boxer.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Explain that one real quick.
That's his voice.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, the voice of Jack Johnson.
I own in my Black HistoryCollection a record with his
voice on it, the only one in theworld and so what I've done is
I've just, instead of doing themagazine, I just figured I got
music and if you put music onSpotify, it just goes down a
dark hole and you might getroyalties of $3 every year.
And so I thought the thing Ilove about songs is hearing the
(28:54):
story behind the song.
So I thought you know this bookhas already moved 2000 copies
and how many people now haveheard the song through a QR code
or watched the music video andseen the lyrics and then read
the story behind it?
So it's called Hybrid Lit andfour words start print, finish
digital, because most books areread on the toilet and if you
(29:17):
hand it to someone, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I was getting ready to get something to eat after
this, dr Joel, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So you hand it to someone 160 page book and
they're thinking, oh, this istoo much, because there's never
a one to one ratio on booksbought or given and books read
on books bought or given andbooks read.
But this is unintimidating andpeople start it.
And then there's a QR code thattakes them on to a whole nother
realm where they can now take alook at the bonus material,
(29:43):
which is generally three to fourtimes the size of the booklet
itself.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Now we've got about five more minutes left and time
is flying so fast I've got tobring you back.
We hadn't even scratched theshell of who Dr Joel is.
I've got some quotes here andone thing I've always admired
about you is your ability totalk to the street and talk to
the elite.
So in other words, thepracticality of a conversation,
(30:08):
or breaking down something.
Rosetta Stone, that's reallydifficult, difficult, but you
can break it down to practicalapplications.
Some of these quotes that youhave, I wrote down and I want to
ask you about them.
I love this one, doc.
You said 15% of success andhappiness depends on technical,
technical strength technical 85%, interpersonal skill.
(30:34):
Tell us about that one.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, back in the early 1900s there was a group
called the Carnegie Foundationand they wanted to find out what
is success.
How do you import success andhow do you export it in one's
personal life and anorganization?
So they started with a group ofengineers.
Now you know the differencebetween an extrovert and
introvert engineer.
(30:58):
An introvert engineer looks athis or her own shoes.
An extrovert engineer looks atsomeone else's shoes, and so
they look at them and they'retrying to figure out Say that
one again, say that one again.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
That's me.
Say that one again.
An intro one again, that's me.
Say that one again.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
An introvert engineer looks at their own shoes.
They're looking like this.
And then an extrovert engineeris looking at your shoes.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
That's close to home.
Ouch, ouch, go ahead Proceed.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
So they're trying to figure out OK, how are these
individuals wired and whatcomprises success in this
organization, and that's wherethey came up with.
15% of success is based ontechnical competence.
In other words, most audiencesI stand before around the world
(31:48):
they're profoundly competent,whether it's doctors, scientists
, educators, whoever it might be, musicians, whoever it is.
They're profoundly competent,or they wouldn't be in the room
and I acknowledge that with them.
But I let them know that 15% oftheir success is based on maybe
the 10,000 hours they spenttrying to be becoming competent
(32:10):
and experts in whatever field itis.
Now you have scientists who areprofoundly competent who can't
work together and they're atodds with each other for
whatever reason.
And so to help them unpack theway they're wired individually
and then to be able to look athow another person they're
working with on the team iswired personality-wise, to take
(32:31):
a look at the built-in naturalconflicts there's no cosmic
conspiracy out there.
We got on each other's nervesjust by being ourselves.
I mean just like marriage, youknow, opposites attract, then
they attack, and it's just theway it is.
And so what happens is thatwhen people begin to understand
this now, it becomes an ahaexperience happens perhaps both
(32:54):
individually and collectivelywithin an organization, and
profound things can begin tohappen in terms of creativity,
productivity, flexibility.
And I worked with oneorganization I won't name it,
but it's a government agency.
They brought me in because theywere getting EEO complaints and
(33:14):
, just like a huge number of EEOcomplaints, and I asked, I told
him I says, if you let me comein and do what I do, I said I
will begin, I will hopefullyhelp in this situation some way,
give some skills and tools, andwhat happened is that within
seven months, we reduced the EEOcomplaints by 70%.
(33:35):
How do we do that?
First, I got people tounderstand how they're wired and
that conflicts might not beabout age, might not be about
sex, gender, it might not beabout race issues, it might not
be about all these differentthings.
It might be just aboutpersonality.
In fact that's a high measure ofit.
(33:57):
So once I understand that, andthen I unpacked five different
types of values that we holddear that end up sponsoring
anger and rage.
For instance, a person has awonderful value of order I want
order, I want order everywherebut then it's like an addictive
cycle.
Then there's disorder and thenthey use their anger to bring
(34:18):
the order back.
Stop Clean that up, stop doingthis, start doing that, and then
what happens is you get theorder comes in, and then comes
the kick, just like theaddictive cycle, and now greater
disorder emerges because of theusing anger as a tool to get
the order back.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
We're going to stop right there.
It is so profound For mylisteners out there.
I told you you were going to bein for a treat Just in 34
minutes.
Doc has told so much about himbeing a dope smoking fool as a
teenager, then a character coachchaplain, then wrote books and
then that, that big temptation.
(34:59):
I know that his story isconnecting with some folks.
So, doc, wow, thank you.
Tell the listeners where theycan follow you and where they
can keep up with what you'redoing.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Probably the main website is four words
JoelSpeaksRealGoodcom.
Joelspeaksrealgoodcom.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Wow.
Thank you so much, doc.
You have been amazing.
Thank you for listening andsending your some time today.
And also, if you want to knowabout us, you want to know about
us.
Head on over toadrienbranchspeakscom.
Follow us on Adrienne BranchSpeaks on social media and
download the Climb whereverpodcasts are available.
(35:46):
Again, thank you to Dr JoelFreeman.
He is amazing.
Thank you to you, the listeners, and we want you to remember,
be encouraged and keep climbing.
Thank you to you, the listeners, and we want you to remember,
be encouraged and keep climbing.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Adrian Branch , former pro-athlete turned
motivational speaker andcertified life coach, and
welcome to the Climb, a showwhere we celebrate the stories
of resilient people sharing howthey turned adversity into
success, From the businesssector to athletes and beyond.
Be inspired and learn what ittakes to climb.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, hey, everybody, how you doing?
Welcome to another episode ofthe Climb.
I'm your host, adrian Branch,and this show is intentional
about bringing you stories ofpeople and their resilience, how
they've overcome, what's theirmindset.
If they can do it, I can do ittoo.
We want you to take theselessons because we believe
there's some great lessons thatyou can take.
(00:46):
And think about it.
Everything worthwhile is uphill.
It takes climbing, it takesbeing intentional, it takes
being consistent.
Well, this guest today is afriend, a mentor, so decorated.
I've known him for the last 30years, half of my adult life,
and he's made such greatdeposits.
(01:08):
His name is Dr Joel Freeman.
He's an author of over 20 books, he's a dad, a granddad, he's a
philanthropist, an entrepreneur, and he is someone who's a
before the term was popularinfluencer.
He's a true influencer.
So the accolades are so long.
You'll hear some of his story,but we want you to come in here
(01:30):
and hear what he has to say.
So, dr Joel Freeman, welcome tothe show, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
It's good to be here, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, in your own words, I'll get started and say
you're also a very bad dancer,so I'm going to start some music
and let's get a big laugh outof how you can't dance.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It's true, it's true.
Every wedding, every wedding,they try to get my wife and I,
to you know, to dance, and I'mjust all painful all over.
It is painful painful.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Doc, there's so much to you.
I want to jump right in becauseI want our listeners to really
hear and get the spirit of whoyou are.
You were born in Maine.
You had most of your youngadult life in Alberta, canada,
and then, at 17, you struck outon your own.
But take it from there.
Tell us about how you got yourstart before you became a
(02:23):
character coach for so many richand famous pro athletes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, you know, growing up in Alberta, canada
was pretty incredible A littletown of 2000 people, nine ice
hockey rinks.
I was on the ice minimum two,three hours a day from end of
October to about the beginningof April, and we always had a
rink in the backyard.
It was just a most incredibleexperience.
(02:49):
At 17, I got a I don't know,just something, just a wild
horse, just want to leave home,had $24 in my pocket, my best
buddy at the time.
He and I left.
We looked like mutton Jeff, hewas 6'5" and I was barely
breaking 5'5" at the time and itjust was an incredible
(03:10):
experience.
Hitchhiking thousands of milesall around North America,
long-haired, hippie,dope-smoking fool.
And then I had a conversionexperience to the Jesus of the
Bible on September 10, 1972.
Turn turned my whole lifearound, Because you can imagine
seeing me at that time hair downthe middle of my back and just
a new hippie Jesus freak.
(03:32):
And then about seven yearslater I became one of the first
chaplains in the history of theNBA.
So I had to really attack a lotof juvenile thinking, juvenile
behavior and in order duringthose seven years, to play or to
work, to talk at that level.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Go back to this real quick, because I can't imagine
you being anyone's foo or beinga dope or smoking dope.
So I never get tired of hearingthat one where you say, man,
that's who I was.
But there's also a story whereyou talk about around that same
time and it was profound and youlearned the lesson from it
where you were painting a farmeror a neighbor's tractor and
(04:15):
then you cut out in the middleof the summer and that was a
teachable moment.
Tell our audience about thatand what you learned.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, during the summer months, while I was still
in high school, I worked onesummer at a pig farm.
I had about 400 pigs and that'sa whole nother story.
It's quite an interestingexperience.
And then two other summers Iwas in Litchfield, maine, and
working with Freddie and FloraWeeks, and so, you know, we did
(04:43):
a lot of haying and just lumber,did a lot of lumbering.
He had a huge, huge farm and sohe had a horse and you know all
just kind of stuff that farmersdo, and so I had a lot of
responsibility at that time onthe farm.
Well, he had a red tractor.
(05:03):
It was an old farm all tractorwhere you had the two wheels
close to each other on the frontand then, of course, the big
old wheels in the back.
And I looked at the cowl, Ilooked at the you know the
wheels, spokes and all that, andI thought, man, I could do this
fire engine red.
And so we went to the store.
I still remember going to thestore picking out the right kind
(05:24):
of paint, and and then I wentto, I came back and started
working on the sanding.
You know, wax on, wax off.
I was, I did that before.
That was cool, and, and so whathappened was I did the cowl
first, because that was theeasiest part, and so that looked
really cool, cool, I mean, itdid the whole thing sanding it.
(05:46):
And then I started looking atall the manure and all the crap
and all the stuff on the spokesof the wheels and other parts of
the tractor and I thought, Ithink that I think we got uh,
you know, we're just going tostick with this.
Well, next day, two days go byand freddie, you know, we kind
of look at the tractor togetherand he says, oh, you know, what
(06:07):
are you going to do?
You know what's happening here.
I says, well, I think I'vetaken as far as I can take it.
And then he just he asked me afew more questions and I never
saw Freddie get mad.
I think he even used a cussword and he was a good Christian
, you know, church-going guy,and he got really fired up and
(06:28):
he says when you start something, joel, you got to finish it.
Now finish that tractor.
And that taught me an awful lot,because in my early years I'd
get distracted, you know, likeoh there's a squirrel, oh that's
another bright, shiny object,and I get all excited about
projects, and then I wouldn'tfinish them.
And so then I determined I amgoing to finish what I start,
(06:51):
and then I would start projectsI shouldn't have started, but
then I'd finish them.
And I began to learn later onin life to make sure that if I'm
going to start something it'sworth finishing.
And that's that's kind of thethe genesis of how I grew in
that area and have grown.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I never forget that story because you finished it
and look about seven years later.
How did you become a charactercoach, a chaplain, one of the
first ones who's now called theWashington Wizards, but they
were the Washington Bullets atthe time, and that's before you
were 30 years old.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, there's a guy by the name of Bill Alexson.
He and I knew each other fromway back and he was starting to
work with the Celtics.
And so what happened is theBullets were playing the Celtics
and Elvin Hayes and KevinPorter came out to the pregame
chapel and I was you know, thisis all pre digital, no cell
(07:46):
phones or anything.
So he had their home number andgave them my home number and,
uh, I ended up, uh, calling uh,kevin Porter, who, uh, who just
became a dear friend, and he, wewent out to lunch and uh, he,
he really, uh, we reallyconnected.
And then what happened is Istarted as as a chaplain, had no
(08:08):
tickets, no, parking pass, no,no, no thing around my neck, you
know, around on my chest herethat says I'm chaplain and in
fact that that was for sevenyears.
I had none of that.
I just made friends with theparking people.
I made friends with the guy atthe door where the athletes come
in.
You know where that is, youknow.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Back tunnel and a back tunnel.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, and so I made friends with them.
They let me in early on andthen I'd find seat.
Back then the bullets, you know, weren't doing so well, they
just won the championship.
But there's somepost-championship excitement.
But you know, it was asituation where I would find a
seat If someone came and says,hey, that's my seat, oh, I'm so
sorry, and I'd move over acouple of seats and finally,
(08:53):
seven years later, there's a guythat came in who was a believer
and he was very high up in theorganization.
I think he lasted only one yearthere and he was talking to me.
He says so where do you sit?
And I said wherever.
He says you mean, you don'thave tickets, you don't have
season tickets for this.
I said no, and within the nextday I got two season tickets and
(09:15):
he put me in a very nice seat.
And then, of course, you knowit just was incredible.
I didn't.
I was like whoa, I got aparking pass.
Now I got two season tickets.
Oh, my goodness, this is, I'vedied and gone to heaven.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Man.
So that's interesting.
I'm hearing the fabric.
I'm hearing the fabric of youmaking the adjustments from
being a young minded personstriking out at 17, going around
that teachable moment that younever forget with the red
tractor.
Then you experience Christcoming into your heart as a
(09:46):
young person 1972, you went toBible college and then also you
came out and you started to bean influencer and a leader of
young people.
I want to move the story alonga little bit and say there was a
time in your life, if you'retalking about Bible stories,
that's almost like David andBathsheba.
From what I mean, it'stemptation, and this is where
(10:06):
I'm going.
I don't even know if youremember this one.
You were a principal, You're atthe top of your game, You're
respected, You're a chaplain andyou tell this story about a
young guy that got busted inyour school for drugs.
Instead of disposing themarijuana, you say you're
(10:27):
getting ready to go out in thefield and smoke it when no one
is around.
Like the temptation, like David.
Tell us about that story.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, this young kid, I think he was in ninth grade.
He had a nickel bag and so Iyou know he was all cool about
it.
Like you know, that's not mineor whatever.
So I thought this guy thistrouble here.
So what I did is I kept thenickel bag, I put it down.
I remember I had three drawerson the left side of my desk at
(10:57):
my office.
I put it way in the back of thethird drawer, the lowest drawer
, and I forgot about it becauseI thought if he starts lying, at
least I've got the evidencedrawer.
And I forgot about it because Ithought if he starts lying, at
least I've got the evidence here.
And I forgot all about it.
I think probably two years wentby, maybe three years, I don't
know and I was going through areal time of discouragement and
I was just kind of lookingthrough my desk I don't know,
(11:19):
maybe I was cleaning my desk outor something.
I pulled that out and, boom, Isaw that nickel bag of dope and
it was like, oh my goodness.
So I grabbed it, put it in mypocket and told my secretary
says I'll be gone for the restof the day, just hold my calls,
you know, and I'll get back tothem and I went to the 7-Eleven,
(11:39):
got some zigzag papers and Iwent to a place that I normally
went, uh, uh, you know, uh,hunting, deer hunting.
It's kind of a remote wood setof woods.
And so I sat there in my car Istill remember it was a Ford
Granada, silver color, and uh, Iwas, I had the door on a
propped open and I I just rolledmyself a big old doobie, you
(12:03):
know, and and I was about readyto strike the match, and it was.
I've never heard the Lord talk,but I got this very, very strong
impression that what I wasdoing was I was at a nexus, I
was at a crossroads and it wouldopen up the door to something
probably very bad.
(12:23):
Open up the door to somethingprobably very bad.
And so I just kind of held it,looked at it and just then I
started laughing at theludicrousy of the whole thing.
Like you said, all that resume,obituary type stuff happening,
radio talk show, tv show,bullets, chaplain, pastor, and
(12:43):
all this kind of stuff.
Father, husband and I, just I,just I started laughing and then
I just tore that thing up anddumped the whole nickel bag out
on the grass and I just wentback in the car and I just
started praising God and just awhole revival began to happen in
my life after that.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Let's park it there for a second, because this is
exactly why we're so excitedabout the show called the Climb.
You're at the top of your game,like you say obituary, resume,
kind of things.
You're celebrated, you have agreat reputation.
But, like David in the Bible,when he was at the top of his
game, when he should have beenat war, on post he saw Bathsheba
(13:25):
and the rest of the story washis household was never the same
again.
You could have gone so manydifferent ways.
Tell the listener out there youjust said one thing before you
even reached for the nickel bagyou were going through a tough
time.
And that's a lot of times whenpeople are vulnerable, when
they're going through a toughtime or they're at the top of
(13:45):
their game.
Tell the listener how youovercame that temptation where
you eventually could laugh at it.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, it's just like in the scripture when it talks
about King David.
It says just prior to that, itsays when kings were in battle
or should have been in battle,he wasn't in battle, he was
taking it easy R&R whileeveryone else was fighting on
behalf of the kingdom.
And so I think that you knowsin and temptation doesn't just
(14:14):
happen.
It all starts by leaning,leaning, leaning in a direction
and then leaning back and thenleaning over here.
And that's why, in the book ofPsalms David talks about.
He says I inclined my ear tothe Lord.
In other words, I leaned intoward the Lord restaurant and
there's a cacophony of noisesaround one or a couple or two or
(14:38):
three people.
You have someone leaning in tolisten better to the person
that's trying to talk in a low,hushed voice, and so leaning and
inclining.
We're not called to perfection,we're called to be leaners.
We incline in the direction ofrighteousness and truth and
(14:58):
peace and quietness and all therest that comes along with it.
And so many times what happensis that, you know, the devil can
transform himself into as aminister of righteousness, the
devil can become a roaring lion.
There's different tactics thatthe devil can use and sometimes,
like in the book of Solomon itsays that there are lions and
(15:20):
there are things on themountaintops, and so when we're
hit the mountaintops it seems asthough there are specialized
temptations.
It's not like the same old,same old type temptations, but
it's at a whole nother level oftemptation.
And I don't think the devil iscreative at all.
(15:42):
He has like one, two, three,four.
Okay, forgotten about numberone, let's go back to number one
again.
And so I don't know.
It's just the whole idea ofremaining vigilant in the word
and filled with the Holy Spiritin the Word and filled with the
Holy Spirit, with that point forthe public out there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Dr Joel trained me up 30 years ago, so he was our
character coach and I became amotivational speaker.
He taught us about tone, tactand timing.
Taught us about spacing like aspace like this.
Make intimate small gestures Ifyou're on a football field,
make super large gestures.
I want to talk about thisbecause I never forgot this as
well.
I know you probably rememberthis and I take it as it's my
own.
You talk about blind spots.
(16:28):
Blind spots to that point whereyou just talked about King
David and on the mountaintop andthe adversary coming.
One, two, three.
You told the story that blindspots on a 360 degree radius.
So in front of us, typically,what you see is 150 degrees 75
degrees to the right, 75 degreesto the left, so 150 degrees on
(16:48):
a peripheral, from earlobe toearlobe is 210 degrees.
My point is out of a 360 degreeradius, there's more things in
life that we don't see than whatwe do see.
My question to you is I'vestudied this as you taught me
this blind spots.
I think the blind spots thatmost people fall into and our
(17:10):
listeners could identify with isthe blind spot of pride.
I got this Pride fear,rejection and a lack of
knowledge.
I'd love to know your thoughtson something that you created.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yes, I think that you know.
One of the things is that whenyou're in a jar, you can't read
the label, and so it's importantyou know, in anyone, in any
type of situation, when you'rein a marriage, you're in a jar,
and sometimes we need people onthe outside to read the label
for us.
When we're in a neighborhoodassociation, we're in a jar.
When we're in a particular job,we're in a jar.
(17:47):
And that's why, when I was onthe board of a nonprofit one
time they said, oh, let's do aweekend or a Saturday, let's get
together and learn about eachother and understand.
And then they all looked at meand said, joel, this is what you
do, don't you?
And I said, yeah, but I'm inthe jar with you.
We need to bring someone fromthe outside.
(18:10):
So my point is is to be aware,and sometimes it's having people
that we invite into our livesand then we deputize them and
say will you be a label readerfor me, for my jar, because I
can't see everything.
And that's not the end all,because then it's also the whole
idea of being in the word.
(18:32):
I find that most that everychange in my life, minor or
major, has come because of beingin the Word.
It's not going to a seminarnecessarily.
I'm not an anti-seminar person,I do seminars.
It's not from reading a book.
I've written enough books 24 ofthem.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I believe 24.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
It's not coming from someone telling us what it's all
about.
I find that the Word of God iswhat really speaks to our hearts
and brings the correction alongwith it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Let me ask you this one.
So you're moving along, thetrain is on the tracks, you're
just everyday people, but yougive a darn and you're really
trying to make something of yourlife.
Give a darn and you're reallytrying to make something of your
life.
So you've gone from being achaplain along with being a
chaplain, a dad, a charactercoach, a mentor, to an Adrian
Branch and a lot of former proathletes.
(19:27):
Then you got into almost thesecond half of your working life
and you've been writingphenomenal books, like you have
one BH 365, black History 365,and that's created its own
weather pattern.
Tell us about that and thegenesis of writing that
phenomenal book.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I'll just show it to you right here.
It's a book that weighs fiveand a half pounds, about three
inches thick, has about 1200 QRcodes and about I'd say well,
well over 2,500 imagesthroughout.
It's like a museum in a book.
And the response that Dr Milton, Walter Milton and I we spent
(20:10):
two and a half years, 12, 16hour days, putting this together
, and we're just grateful andhumbled at the impact it seems
to be having us now in, I think,around 500 school districts
around the country, and so we'rejust really amazed at how
something so small could thenbecome what it is today and
(20:33):
perhaps where it will go in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and then also, so you're not stopping there.
So that's a curriculum that alot is in a Texas school system.
You've got over 15,000 schoolsthat are using that in the
curriculum, but then you're alsoheading out the Rosetta stone
replica project.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, that's something here.
It's called the RosettaUniverse and it's just basically
thanks for asking about this.
It's a very exciting thing thatI developed many years ago, or
I've started developing manyyears ago, maybe 20 years ago
prior or more, and so it allstarted when I had a crisis of
(21:18):
faith and I kept bumping intothe Rosetta Stone when I was
looking at the spade ofarchaeology in terms of
reliability of scripture, andthen it kind of put its claws in
me and next thing, you know,little by little, this whole
idea began to emerge ofdeveloping a 5,000 square foot
traveling exhibit, began toemerge of developing a 5,000
(21:39):
square foot traveling exhibit.
The first zone would be aboutthe Rosetta Stone, the history,
hieroglyphics, opening ofancient Egyptian secrets,
napoleon War, so it's such anepic drama.
And then moving into the secondphase aspect, about code
cracking.
You get a third base coach inbaseball going like this and
what is that the other team issaying is that right?
(22:00):
Is you got the Navajo codetalkers?
You have all kinds of differentthings that involve codes.
The third zone is aboutlanguage and culture, how the
two interact and sometimescollide.
And then the fourth zone.
I've taken the word Rosetta andI've developed seven steps for
solving pretty much any problemin about 10 categories of
problems.
So it's all transforming thisancient artifact into a modern
(22:23):
metaphor for problem solving andcritical thinking.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, tell us why.
While you're right there on theRosetta Stone, tell us what it
is for those who don't know, andwhy is it significant?
It was like one of the top fivegreatest finds in the last 500
years.
So what is the Rosetta Stoneand what is its significance?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I'll do this in 90 seconds.
It was found in 1799, I shouldsay, on Earth, by Napoleonic
soldiers.
They found that, for instance,in with the Rosetta Stone.
The top part was hieroglyphics,the second part was a hieratic,
cursive form of hieroglyphics.
So that's exactly the samelanguage, but it's different
formats.
This top language is reachingthe religious class, the middle
(23:08):
is reaching the common people,and then, because it comes from
the word demis, we get the worddemocracy from it, and then
Greek, that's reaching thebusiness and government class,
and the messaging on it isfascinating, but it's not the
key thing.
The last sentence in the Greekwas the same thing will be
written in all threeinscriptions, and so, for the
(23:28):
first time in history, peopleare saying whoa, wait a minute,
this should be easy peasy, lemonsqueezy.
We know what the Greek says.
What do the other twoinscriptions say?
Well, it wasn't that easy.
It took 23 years to crack thecode.
They didn't know if it wasalphabetic, phonetic, you know,
symbolic, do you read?
(23:49):
Left to right, right to left?
They didn't know.
And so what happened is that ittook Thomas Young from England,
all these different peopleinvolved.
And then what happened?
In 1822, the code was cracked,which then unlocked the secrets.
And so it becomes like ametaphor hey, that's the Rosetta
Stone of genomics, hey, that'sthe Rosetta Stone of space
(24:11):
exploration, oh, that's theRosetta Stone of medicine.
And so now it's become its own.
It developed its own weatherpattern.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I'm just very excited about now transforming
it into a modern metaphor forproblem solving.
And tell us about it.
Was the top under top 20,significant right behind the
Bible?
Or something on the mostsignificant find in the last 500
years, something that wasprofound?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
500 years, something that was profound.
Yeah, I launched the project in2009 at the Library of Congress
with experts in hieroglyphicsand Egyptology.
There, they were quivering withexcitement and seeing the
replica that I'd created,because I'm the only one in the
world that's created a full-size3D replica.
There are museums all aroundthe world and so what happened
is that in 2013, I was watchingTV and the History Channel and
they had 101 objects thatchanged the world, and, of
(25:01):
course, they started with 101all the way up to number one.
Well, they got to number three,number one.
We'll start reverse.
Number one was the Bible,number two, coin money and
number three, rosetta Stone.
I thought, wait a minute, thatbeat out the wheel.
The Gutenberg press, a cup ofcoffee, what's going on here?
(25:24):
And so that's when I began tolook at things far more
seriously.
I said I must be missingsomething.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Foundationally.
I want to go back real quickbecause this is right around
when you talked about blindspots.
We can hear and I'm going touse your term we can hear the
music that you're making withsomeone and the excitement and
the passion that really has yourattention, but go back to that
time when you thought it was abig failure.
(25:53):
One of the biggest failures inyour life was when you were
going to write a free magazineover 25,000 copies and it
flopped in your mind.
So take us back before therewas big success.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I developed a magazine called Everyday Matters
and I thought, you know,because my heart is real
evangelism, and I thought, whatif I create a magazine that has
a couple layers to it, but it'sall about felt needs.
So I identified about 50 feltneeds and in terms of marriage,
living a single life, depression, men and their emotions, all
(26:33):
these different topics thatpeople think about, and I
thought these are greatconversation starters and I
thought, you know, this woman'snot going to have four spiritual
laws, it's not going to sharewith people how to accept Christ
.
It's going to be designed sothat people in a congregation
can take five or 10 of thesewith them to the grocery store.
Because my philosophy in lifeis that, hey, I went to the
(26:53):
grocery store to get a gallon ofmilk and a loaf of bread and
while I was there I shared Jesus.
Or, flip it around, I went tothe grocery store to share Jesus
and while I was there, I got agallon of milk and a loaf of
bread.
That's the way I live, it isthat way.
And so I'm on the plane, youknow, I'm there to share Jesus
and while I'm there I'm goingfrom point A to point B, and so
(27:15):
what happens is that whathappened with this magazine is,
I thought, what if we create anentrepreneurial side?
Well, youth groups that areconstantly playing out and
they're doing all kinds of carwashes and selling candy bars
and everything else, and theycome away after working hard,
hard, hard, and they come upwith $0.27.
(27:37):
And so what happened is that Ibegan to figure well, this is
not going to work.
And you know, I went to churchafter church after church around
the country and no one seemedto get it.
Only one church, church afterchurch around the country, and
no one seemed to get it.
Only one church.
(27:57):
After two years, I mean, I puta huge amount of hours every day
, every week, workday, you know,reaching out.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
How did you overcome that failure?
How did you overcome that flopwhere it could have been a real
bruise to your ego andcreativity?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Well, it's just like this is a magazine size.
So I created now a booklet, awhole new, and it came out.
This whole idea came out.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Hurricane bigotry.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Jack Johnson the boxer.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Explain that one real quick.
That's his voice.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, the voice of Jack Johnson.
I own in my Black HistoryCollection a record with his
voice on it, the only one in theworld and so what I've done is
I've just, instead of doing themagazine, I just figured I got
music and if you put music onSpotify, it just goes down a
dark hole and you might getroyalties of $3 every year.
And so I thought the thing Ilove about songs is hearing the
(28:54):
story behind the song.
So I thought you know this bookhas already moved 2000 copies
and how many people now haveheard the song through a QR code
or watched the music video andseen the lyrics and then read
the story behind it?
So it's called Hybrid Lit andfour words start print, finish
digital, because most books areread on the toilet and if you
(29:17):
hand it to someone, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I was getting ready to get something to eat after
this, dr Joel, thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So you hand it to someone 160 page book and
they're thinking, oh, this istoo much, because there's never
a one to one ratio on booksbought or given and books read
on books bought or given andbooks read.
But this is unintimidating andpeople start it.
And then there's a QR code thattakes them on to a whole nother
realm where they can now take alook at the bonus material,
(29:43):
which is generally three to fourtimes the size of the booklet
itself.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Now we've got about five more minutes left and time
is flying so fast I've got tobring you back.
We hadn't even scratched theshell of who Dr Joel is.
I've got some quotes here andone thing I've always admired
about you is your ability totalk to the street and talk to
the elite.
So in other words, thepracticality of a conversation,
(30:08):
or breaking down something.
Rosetta Stone, that's reallydifficult, difficult, but you
can break it down to practicalapplications.
Some of these quotes that youhave, I wrote down and I want to
ask you about them.
I love this one, doc.
You said 15% of success andhappiness depends on technical,
technical strength technical 85%, interpersonal skill.
(30:34):
Tell us about that one.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, back in the early 1900s there was a group
called the Carnegie Foundationand they wanted to find out what
is success.
How do you import success andhow do you export it in one's
personal life and anorganization?
So they started with a group ofengineers.
Now you know the differencebetween an extrovert and
introvert engineer.
(30:58):
An introvert engineer looks athis or her own shoes.
An extrovert engineer looks atsomeone else's shoes, and so
they look at them and they'retrying to figure out Say that
one again, say that one again.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
That's me.
Say that one again.
An intro one again, that's me.
Say that one again.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
An introvert engineer looks at their own shoes.
They're looking like this.
And then an extrovert engineeris looking at your shoes.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
That's close to home.
Ouch, ouch, go ahead Proceed.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
So they're trying to figure out OK, how are these
individuals wired and whatcomprises success in this
organization, and that's wherethey came up with.
15% of success is based ontechnical competence.
In other words, most audiencesI stand before around the world
(31:48):
they're profoundly competent,whether it's doctors, scientists
, educators, whoever it might be, musicians, whoever it is.
They're profoundly competent,or they wouldn't be in the room
and I acknowledge that with them.
But I let them know that 15% oftheir success is based on maybe
the 10,000 hours they spenttrying to be becoming competent
(32:10):
and experts in whatever field itis.
Now you have scientists who areprofoundly competent who can't
work together and they're atodds with each other for
whatever reason.
And so to help them unpack theway they're wired individually
and then to be able to look athow another person they're
working with on the team iswired personality-wise, to take
(32:31):
a look at the built-in naturalconflicts there's no cosmic
conspiracy out there.
We got on each other's nervesjust by being ourselves.
I mean just like marriage, youknow, opposites attract, then
they attack, and it's just theway it is.
And so what happens is thatwhen people begin to understand
this now, it becomes an ahaexperience happens perhaps both
(32:54):
individually and collectivelywithin an organization, and
profound things can begin tohappen in terms of creativity,
productivity, flexibility.
And I worked with oneorganization I won't name it,
but it's a government agency.
They brought me in because theywere getting EEO complaints and
(33:14):
, just like a huge number of EEOcomplaints, and I asked, I told
him I says, if you let me comein and do what I do, I said I
will begin, I will hopefullyhelp in this situation some way,
give some skills and tools, andwhat happened is that within
seven months, we reduced the EEOcomplaints by 70%.
(33:35):
How do we do that?
First, I got people tounderstand how they're wired and
that conflicts might not beabout age, might not be about
sex, gender, it might not beabout race issues, it might not
be about all these differentthings.
It might be just aboutpersonality.
In fact that's a high measure ofit.
(33:57):
So once I understand that, andthen I unpacked five different
types of values that we holddear that end up sponsoring
anger and rage.
For instance, a person has awonderful value of order I want
order, I want order everywherebut then it's like an addictive
cycle.
Then there's disorder and thenthey use their anger to bring
(34:18):
the order back.
Stop Clean that up, stop doingthis, start doing that, and then
what happens is you get theorder comes in, and then comes
the kick, just like theaddictive cycle, and now greater
disorder emerges because of theusing anger as a tool to get
the order back.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
We're going to stop right there.
It is so profound For mylisteners out there.
I told you you were going to bein for a treat Just in 34
minutes.
Doc has told so much about himbeing a dope smoking fool as a
teenager, then a character coachchaplain, then wrote books and
then that, that big temptation.
(34:59):
I know that his story isconnecting with some folks.
So, doc, wow, thank you.
Tell the listeners where theycan follow you and where they
can keep up with what you'redoing.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Probably the main website is four words
JoelSpeaksRealGoodcom.
Joelspeaksrealgoodcom.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Wow.
Thank you so much, doc.
You have been amazing.
Thank you for listening andsending your some time today.
And also, if you want to knowabout us, you want to know about
us.
Head on over toadrienbranchspeakscom.
Follow us on Adrienne BranchSpeaks on social media and
download the Climb whereverpodcasts are available.
(35:46):
Again, thank you to Dr JoelFreeman.
He is amazing.
Thank you to you, the listeners, and we want you to remember,
be encouraged and keep climbing.
Thank you to you, the listeners, and we want you to remember,
be encouraged and keep climbing.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!