April 25, 2025 • 38 mins
What happens when you grow up believing lies about yourself, only to discover you have the potential for extraordinary leadership? Dr. Brian Williamson's compelling story reveals the transformative power of having someone believe in you when you don't believe in yourself.
From navigating through college struggles to becoming a United States Marine, Dr. Williamson's journey began when a marine recruiter saw potential in a bright, but directionless young man. "The minute you walked through that door, I knew you had what it takes to be a United States Marine," words that sparked a vision of what could be possible despite Brian's deep-seated belief that he was fundamentally stupid—a lie told often as he was growing up.
This episode explores how Brian changed his life and more importantly, how he underwent a profound mental transformation that would later lead him through careers as a Marine, pastor, leadership consultant, and executive. Throughout our conversation, Dr. Williamson shares powerful leadership principles that have shaped his approach to developing others, including the "Five Voices" communication framework and his S.Y.S.T.E.M. definition as anything that "Saves You Stress, Time, Energy and Money."
You'll discover why psychological safety forms the foundation of high-performing teams, why authenticity without integrity is hypocrisy, and why leadership requires a fundamental shift from self-focus to other-focus. Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Williamson shares the advice he gave his kids: "Sometimes you have to do the things you don't want to do to get the results you do want to get."
Whether you're climbing your own mountain of challenges or leading others through theirs, this episode offers wisdom for the journey.
Subscribe to The Klimb podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit AdrianBranchSpeaks.com to learn more about our mission to help you keep klimbing!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Adrian Branch , former pro-athlete turned
motivational speaker andcertified life coach, and
welcome to the Climb, a showwhere we celebrate the stories
of resilient people sharing howthey turned adversity into
success, From the businesssector to athletes and beyond.
Be inspired and learn what ittakes to climb.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, hey, everybody, welcome to the Climb, another
show where we get a chance toencourage you.
We're so excited that you'rejoining us.
The Climb is a show that talksabout people's story and what
you can learn from their storiesthe highs, the lows, the
processes.
Man, you may have fallen down,but don't stay down.
What it took to overcome.
(00:46):
And so we're intentional,because everybody has shoes,
issues.
But it's wonderful when you canlearn from others and come away
from this show saying if theycan do it, I can do it too.
If they can overcome, I canovercome as well.
Well, today you're going to bein for a treat, I can overcome
(01:06):
as well.
Well, today you're going to bein for a treat.
This gentleman is just wonderful.
He started out, you would think, as the horse nobody bet on.
He's Dr Brian Williamson.
He's a father, he's been apastor, he's a life coach, he's
a leader and he's just achampion for people's hearts.
And today you're going toidentify with so many of the
verticals of what it took forhim to overcome.
And oh, by the way, he was aMarine too.
(01:27):
So he was a bad man and wethank you for your service.
But I want to welcome my guest,dr B.
So, dr Brian, welcome to theshow, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Adrian, it is an absolute honor and pleasure to
be with you and I'm reallylooking forward to our
discussion together.
When I get to be around peoplelike you that help others to
elevate and soar and get totheir highest possible good, I
know it's going to be a greatinvestment, not only for the
listeners but for myself.
I'm going to get better as aresult of being here, so I'm
(02:00):
grateful for you and for thetime.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, thank you, I want to jump right into it.
I want to get right into yourstory.
So tell us about where you'refrom.
You're an East Coast guy.
I was an East Coast guy,Washington DC, so you're on that
East Coast interstate 95 aswell.
Huh.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I did grow up in New Jersey.
Yes, grew up not so much 95.
I was more of a parkway guy,exit 168.
I grew up in North Jersey,there in a little town called
Hillsdale, and had a great,great upbringing.
I'm half Italian, so I grew upwith mostly my Italian side of
the family.
My father grew up in a towncalled Patterson, new Jersey,
(02:40):
and he had quite a start, quitea humble beginning start and a
challenging start in New Jersey.
But yeah, that's my home oforigin.
I currently live in Michigan.
I became a Midwesterner so ifeveryone's listening and they're
like you don't sound like aJersey guy.
I'm missing the coffee, I'mmissing that Jersey accent, but
it's because I'm a Michigandernow.
But yeah, that's a little bitof my geography from the
(03:04):
beginnings.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm fascinated because you say you're a little
bit of a late bloomer.
So you were starting out andyou really weren't an athlete.
You were more into music, gotinto college and that fraternity
world was getting the best ofyou.
So tell us about where you werestarting to make that
adjustment.
And then the Marines came andstarted to change things.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so for me, you know, Igrew up wonderful home, mom and
dad, you know.
I'll just tell you my dad gaveme a much different experience
of growing up than he had.
He had much to overcome.
So he grew up on the streets ofPatterson, new Jersey, eating
mustard sandwiches, going to thelocal gospel rescue mission for
(03:46):
a meal because his parents wereboth alcoholics and drinking
their sustenance away.
And so my dad in the earlyyears was an alcoholic and had
some challenges as a result ofthat.
And one of the things my dadwould say to me growing up, just
off and on, even though I knewhe loved me, we had a great
(04:07):
relationship most of the times,but he would say to me don't be
stupid all your life In hisfrustration and caveat, probably
out of some stupid things I wasdoing, but nevertheless, as a
young child, you hear thismessage come into and you don't
have really a way to processthat right.
(04:28):
It just goes in, it lands inyour heart.
So one of this I call, like myfather, wound right.
I just grew up believing thelie that I was stupid, and when
you believe a lie you behave inways that are consistent with
that lie right.
In the same way.
I'll give a little sneak peekright.
When you believe truth, truthcan set you free.
(04:50):
Lies will keep you captive.
And so I believed the lie thatI was stupid.
As a result, I had all kinds ofbehaviors attention-seeking
behaviors, all kinds of things.
I regret trying to getacceptance from people and just
being very rude and offensive toteachers and authority figures.
But one thing I did have as anoutlet was music.
(05:11):
So I was a pretty giftedtrumpet player, practiced quite
a bit.
I became first in the regionand the county and the state for
classical and jazz.
I got into something called theMcDonald's Tri-State Jazz Band,
which was the best of NewJersey, new York and Connecticut
, and had scholarship offers toaudition at places like
Juilliard Manhattan School ofMusic, berkeley College of Music
(05:32):
.
But I ended up going to aschool that had a great jazz
department called WilliamPatterson in New Jersey.
Well, pretty much day one whenI arrived I recognized that I
wasn't ready to discipline mytalent at all.
In fact, I had another path Ichose.
So I joined a fraternity and Ipretty much excelled at
fraternity.
I would say I was a fraternitymajor instead of anything else.
(05:55):
So what I did was I had fourmajors and four semesters.
It took that long for me torealize that I needed some
pretty serious help.
I was very unhealthy, veryundisciplined, very unfocused,
and so I pulled over to theMarine Corps recruiter's office
and I'll never forget this.
It was in Ridgewood, new Jersey.
I climbed a whole set of stairsto get to the top of this tiny
(06:19):
little Marine Corps office andhere's this 265 pound beer
drinking out of control, neverexercised a day in my life kind
of person.
And this Marine Corps recruiterlooks at me and he says son,
sit down.
The minute you walk throughthat door, I knew you had what
it takes to be a United StatesMarine.
(06:40):
Now, for the first time,something is swelling up in my
heart Like this challenging.
You know this guy's calling meup, right, I have a principle we
want to call people up, notcall people out.
This gentleman was calling meup into something that I didn't
know was possible, right?
I mean, I knew I was desperate,I needed to become someone that
I wasn't, and so, long storyshort, I just believed.
(07:03):
He began to tell me about thehonor, commitment, integrity,
courage, all of these values inthe Marine Corps, and he said
hey, you're going to need to getto work because you ain't going
to make it in boot camp lookinglike that.
So I've lost a ton of weight265 to 225 before boot camp came
out, 195, lean, mean, marine,right.
But what's more important wasthe mental transformation.
(07:26):
I became a person that believedI could accomplish things that
I didn't before.
I was believing this lie inmyself, that I was stupid, I had
nothing to offer, and so that'ssort of my origin story, if you
will.
That mattered to me a lotreally, to establish myself as a
person of honor and integrity,and so that was yeah, that was
(07:47):
the beginning of an incrediblydifferent life, for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Let me go back for a second, because for the listener
out there that could feel likethe horses nobody bet on.
And dad is saying that youdon't do anything, stupid Boy.
You just reminded me of my dad,who I love, big Charlie.
I'm tall like him, I'mleft-handed like him, I sound
like him and my dad used to getme rest in peace, big Charlie,
but he used to say you're goingto have to come work for me for
(08:13):
$1.99.
And though he was beingfacetious, that used to burn me
up.
My question to you, before wemove on with this what made you
keep going to find thatrecruiter's office?
Because in the Marines.
Then eventually you got marriedand then you also started
pastoring.
What was that one thing, whileyou were really floundering,
(08:34):
that got you to hold on one moreday?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Let me think I want to give that a minute of
reflection too, and I'll commentbefore I respond to say, like
man, I love my parents.
They're both still living andwe have a great relationship
with pops.
He had some life change,stopped drinking and we had a
great relationship even duringthat time too.
So it's great to celebratethose heritage relationships.
I will tell you that the thingis, I pause and reflect with you
(09:01):
, adrian.
The thing that kept me goingwas a vision that I knew deep
down inside there was somethingburied, there was a version 2.0
of Brian Williamson that I justknew was there and even though
that gap was there between myexperience of it and that
(09:23):
reality of it, I knew it wasthere and it was for me that
call, that sort of pull into thefuture that someone different
needed to come out.
That was it.
I think.
If I really say at the core ofit, it was a vision.
It was a vision of a preferredfuture, of who I could become.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I'm glad that you didn't quit on yourself so many
times.
People quit One more day.
Just go one more day, one moreday, Then you get married and
then you start pastoring yourchurch at 25 or so.
So tell us about where theuptick started coming in.
You started to really get intoyour groove.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yes, thanks, right.
Very, very typical career pathMarine Corps, where they train
you to be a cold-blooded MarineI did have you know, faith is
very important to me.
So to tell my story means thatin April of 1995, I had an
incredible change of heart.
I mean, god awakened me, becamea follower of Jesus and really
(10:21):
began to authentically live thatout, even though I had some
roots and heritage in the church.
For me this was a big turningpoint.
So, yes, met.
My wife began pastoring inchurches for about 18 years, you
know, and so you know.
That was a big shift, a changefrom Marine to pastor.
(10:42):
Interestingly enough, in all ofit there's a thread of really
elevating and developing otherpeople.
So in the Marine Corps I'llnever forget this day I got
called up front and they awardedme the Navy and Marine Corps
Achievement Medal.
I can see it right up on myshelf up there and they called
me to the front of the room.
It's for outstanding leadership,and I was shocked because I
(11:06):
didn't own the identity that Iwas a leader, even though I was
in the Marine Corps.
That came a couple of yearslater, when I was on a plane to
South Africa, when the whenrealizing I was a leader dropped
into my heart.
Uh, as someone said to me well,we're going to follow you,
you're the leader, and I didn'tknow I was the leader.
So, anyway, it was interesting,right.
(11:26):
So I, so I, you know, got thisleadership award.
Very interesting.
But even in ministry, right,being a pastor, so the M&M,
marine Ministry, the, the, thedeveloping people piece, right,
I always had a passion to sharewith people how they could be
transformed and how can theybecome someone different.
(11:47):
And so I think, learning to notjust do kind of traditional,
you know, go and you sit in apew on Sunday.
I was very involved incommunities.
In fact, I had the privilege ofstarting a church in Wisconsin
and I got a job at a bar.
When I moved into the town, Igot a job at a bar as a karaoke
DJ, were you any good Were you?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
any good I've got some skills, I'm not afraid of
the microphone.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I'm not a vocalist first but because of my music
background, yeah, there'sprobably a few different
stereotypes right of karaokepeople.
But I did it just to meetpeople right and just to get to
know folks in the community andtalk with them and help them
become better and we served ourcommunity very involved in that.
So for me just that leadershipdevelopment piece and pouring
(12:35):
into people has always been abig value.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So a couple of things are happening now.
So you're entering about your30s and you get a mentor that
says, hey, we want you toexercise this gift more in
leadership, but also then youstart your own consulting
company or really startstretching out.
And one thing I really like is,when you talk about systems,
explain what systems mean.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly right.
I did have the entrepreneurialbug and began to do some
coaching and consulting, andthat was just a great season of
life.
So systems I'm a systems guy atheart, right, and an acronym
for system that I've utilizedfor many, many years is it's
anything that can save yourselfstress time, energy and money
(13:24):
S-Y-S-T-E-M.
Save yourself stress time,energy and money.
And so I began along with abusiness partner.
We built systems and thosesystems solved business problems
, right.
So I moved from ministry intomarketplace.
Right Now I'm the triple M intobusiness, and so building
(13:45):
systems for me is such a it's ajoy, it's a something that you
know.
There, I believe that there aresuccess secrets that are
universal and principles thatare universal, leadership
secrets that are universal.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Give us a nugget Like , for instance, give us a nugget
that is universal secrets.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, sure, I would say that you know, if you are a
person who's a, let's just saythis the law of sowing and
reaping, right, that's auniversal principle.
Like you sow seed into theground, the seed is slow, right,
it's under there, you start tocultivate and all of a sudden
(14:23):
you reap right Eventually.
So if you're in a situation inyour life right now and you're
listening and you're stuck, buthere's someone's listening who's
started to sow that seed andit's not working yet, and I
would just say to you the seedis slow, it's okay, it's just
under the dirt and eventuallyit's going to start sprouting up
(14:45):
, right.
So sowing and reaping isabsolutely a universal success
principle and you can beexperiencing the reaping that
maybe some seed that you wishyou didn't sow, so you could be
in that sort of negative reapingwhile you're in the positive
sowing, getting ready to go intothe positive reaping.
(15:05):
So that's an example, right.
So I like codifying that stuff,pulling it together, and have
done that multiple times withbusiness problems and challenges
.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So yeah, let me ask you this one.
Talk about this one, becauseeveryone can use it, at a boy,
at a girl.
What would you say in yourleadership that the number one
need is acceptance, the numberone fear is rejection?
What would you say to that?
Wow, Gosh.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I mean, I absolutely think that every human being,
we're craving a place to belongright, to find our purpose, to
find that sort of place that's asafe place, you know, a place
where others just understand whowe are at our best and receive
(15:55):
us for all of our warts, and youknow all the things that we
have that are not maybe aspositive.
So I definitely would say thatbeing you know again, being a
leader who, um, really numberone, creates that space.
You know, google did a studycalled project Aristotle years
ago, and they were thinking thatthey were going to find that
(16:17):
the most effective managers werethese skilled managers who were
driving the teams a certain way, and what they found was that
the most important quality ofthese managers that were leading
higher performing teams waspsychological safety, or an
environment where people feltsafe to speak up and to be
themselves right, a place tohave acceptance and not
(16:39):
rejection, as you stated.
So I think it's incrediblyimportant I think that you know,
adrian, as you and I havegotten to know each other right
the fact that we can have mutualconversations, different
backgrounds, but we can buildcommon ground.
It's a fundamental quality forleaders, right, and I think it
all starts with a heart of love,right?
(16:59):
A definition of love that we'veused is fighting for the
highest possible good in thelives of those you lead until it
becomes a present reality,right, and I think that's that.
That is what it's about.
Leadership is a kind of love,and there's researchers and
scholars now pointing that out.
Actually, I mean, you can golisten to people not even from a
(17:21):
faith perspective say, hey, ifyou think about leadership, in a
way, it's a kind of love, it'sa way it's a tangible,
intangible thing.
So, yeah, acceptance, I thinkit's huge, as you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It's interesting.
I just heard this and I knewthat you and I were going to be
teaming up today and I wrotethis down.
This one is for you, dr B, andI know you've heard this before
Meet them where they are at andtake them to where they need to
be.
Break that one down.
Meet them where they are andtake them where they need to be
in leadership.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So good.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So good.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Such a powerful principle and insightful
principle, you know, to meetsomeone where they are, is, you
know, asking somebody forbehavior change right, Like so a
toxic leader on one extreme oran unhealthy leader is going to
say to a person right away likeyou know, you need to do these
(18:17):
things differently or you needto become, you know, right now.
Be this way right Versus havingcuriosity and actually saying,
hey, this is where that person'sat, I'm going to enter their
world and I'm going to reallypull from them their genius,
(18:38):
their gold that's buried insideof them and be able to help them
kind of see what's really there, right, To uncover that
potential that's there.
So I think that's, you know,love is the environment for that
to happen.
And genuine leaders.
So my PhD research on positiveleaders, the number one quality
(18:59):
is this genuine care and concernfor the other.
And that doesn't happen in somefuture version of themselves.
It happens of where's thisperson at, how are they thinking
, how are they feeling?
Can I adjust my you knowbehaviors?
Can I adjust my mindset, mywords, my language to really do
(19:21):
that in order to sort of helpthem take next steps and coach
them in that direction?
So a lot of leaders don't knowhow to power down, Adrian right,
Especially leaders that have aposition of power, maybe a
personality of power.
Some leaders need to learn howto power down and not just
overpower, Because I promise you, if you overpower, others will
(19:42):
always underdevelop, and sothat's what happens in those
environments.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I'm putting my seatbelt on because at the heart
of it, I'm like you, amotivational speaker, and I'm
ready to go.
I'm like, oh my goodness,you're just getting me so
excited here Talking aboutleadership and you just talked
about even in the positive,where you got your doctorate,
and people are four times moreproductive when they can hear
that at a boy.
(20:07):
Is this a truism?
People don't care how much youknow till they know how much you
care.
And it's not about the X's andthe O's, but the Jimmy's and the
Joe's.
Break that one down for us.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, 100 percent Right.
Knowledge, I mean, listen, Ilove competency.
Obviously, I'm a lifelonglearner.
I think leaders are lifelonglearners and leaders are readers
, all the things.
I think that's very important.
A guy named Jeff DeGraff out ofUniversity of Michigan, a great
(20:49):
thinker, and he was talkingabout like research that shows,
you know, it's like facts don'tchange anyone.
Facts are just facts, right?
It's story.
And what you're doing here,adrian, which is so powerful,
this keep climbing vision thatyou have and the vision for
people to really, you know,press on when it's difficult,
right?
So I think that the idea ofthat transformation happening
(21:13):
and genuinely caring.
So here's the thingAuthenticity without integrity
is hypocrisy.
So you can't really fake.
What I mean by that is thislike you've got to be like who
you are, right, you don't.
Managing a second image ofyourself isn't really fun.
Anyway, it's a lot of energyand effort, and so people want
to accept you for who you are.
(21:34):
But I think when we try to fakeit, emotional intelligence
research will show you thatpeople experience you on the
basis of what you truly feelabout them.
You might think that you'refaking it and, you know, trying
to like, in a way, falsely carefor somebody.
Right, you're talking about.
People don't know how much youcare, how much you know, until
(21:56):
they know how much you care, andit has to be genuine.
People are not a means to anend, people are an end.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
That's good, that's good.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
We don't treat people in order to get something from
them, and a lot of leaders don'tunderstand this, right.
A lot of immature leaders,right, there's five levels of
maturity we won't go into today.
But immature leaders, level one, level two, sometimes level
three leaders well, they don'tunderstand that, and so, for
them, people are a means to anend.
Or I have to just care aboutthem enough and be nice to them
so they perform't understandthat, and so for them, people
are a means to an end, or I haveto just care about them enough
and be nice to them so theyperform a certain way, and in
(22:32):
the end, that doesn't work.
So it's gotta be genuine, andthat comes from embracing.
We're all human, adrian.
Right, we all have strugglesand challenges and needs for
love and to be accepted and togrow and all of the things.
So I think you're spot on.
There's everything out of theway, boy.
There's a few more.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I've got so much written down here.
But this is such a deliciousconversation for me because my
dad was a big motivational, hada lot of philosophy and he said
you're not going to be a dumbjock, you're not going to be a
dumb athlete, you're going to beable to think and process.
So this spoke my language righthere.
(23:13):
My question is I want to stopyou right here in the middle of
our conversation and say man,this is such a paradigm shift
from when your dad was sayingyou're a knucklehead, don't be
stupid.
Who is Brian today?
What are you becoming?
What are you unbecoming?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
If you would have told me I don't even know how
many years ago, 10 years ago,you know, 20 years ago that I
would be where I'm at, I'd beshocked.
I would say you've got to bekidding me.
You know, I had no idea wherethis journey would take me.
So you know, today I think thatI've.
(23:54):
So right now, you know, I'mserving a role inside an
organization.
That's a high level role, lotsof responsibility.
There's thousands of peoplethat I get to work with on a
regular basis, not just a few,right, and the impact of that
and so really becoming a sourceof you know.
(24:16):
John Maxwell says success isadding value to yourself.
Significance is adding value toothers, right.
So I think this journey ofdying to myself, my own selfish
desires I'm an independent,entrepreneurial sort of type
person and so I've.
You know, having people as ameans to an end isn't something
(24:39):
that was unfamiliar to me.
So I've unbecome that, by God'sgrace right, and have learned,
like man, the value and I'm justaround.
Incredible people, the leadersof our company that I'm a part
of now, incredible people likeour culture, award-winning,
positive culture.
It's unbelievable to be aroundit.
We had a really famous personspeak at our conference we had
(25:01):
Maxwell Fears go but just saythis culture is remarkable and
it all flows out of thatcharacter, right?
So I think that right now, justrecognizing that my greatest
value is modeling the behaviorsthat that we want to see
replicated, being that person,truly being that person myself,
(25:22):
relentless pursuit of personalgrowth as a company value for us
, and so being that person who'syou know, aligning to my
highest possible self, livingwith integrity, humility,
generosity, all of those things.
So, yeah, I think I don't thinkthere'll be a person listening
that can't resonate with ajourney from self-focus to other
(25:42):
focus, and so that's a big partof it and that's been a big
part of it for me.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No, that's the thing of beauty.
I want to ask you a few morequestions.
I love where you talk about thefive voices.
Tell us about the five voicesand how you break that down.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
Five Voices is a tool that acompany that I was with prior to
my current company is I wascalled Giant started by Jeremy
Kubitschek and Steve CockrumWonderful, wonderful, positive,
incredible leaders and both haveGiant actively years ago before
my current role.
Still am very involved and usesome of the tools and language,
(26:30):
actually use all of the toolsand language that Giant offers.
So Five Voices is a tool thatJeremy and Steve kind of baked
in the oven and what the FiveVoices are, if you think about
you know.
Adrian, an example I like touse is a telephone right.
So there's me and my bride.
So, if you ever listen to yourvoice memo that you leave.
(26:52):
You know the voicemail.
So, hey, this is BrianWilliamson, not available to
take your call.
Go ahead and listen to it afterthis podcast if you haven't in
a while, because your voicedoesn't sound like your voice
that you hear in your head,right, it just sounds different.
My voice doesn't sound likewhat I hear in my own head and
(27:13):
so I like to use that as astarting place to talk about
five voices, because we ask thequestion like what's it like to
be on the other side of you?
How do people experience you?
And the five voices help you tounderstand that.
And the five voices are pioneer,which are more strategic, kind
of vision-oriented people, toughdecisions, prioritizing what's
(27:37):
most important.
There's the connector, which isall about relationships and
sharing good news.
There's the creative, which arevery, very future forward
thinkers that can really see thecore issues and core challenges
with things as they're buildingthis amazing future.
There is the guardian, which isholding up a shield, saying
(27:59):
let's guard what we have that'salready working.
You know, holding up a shieldsaying let's guard what we have
that's already working, almostlike a champion of the due
diligence and details All thefolks taking care of budgets and
things like that are oftentimesguardian voices.
And then there's the nurturervoice, which is that champion of
relational harmony and valuesand people.
So we all speak, all five voices, but what we find out is that
(28:22):
we have kind of a voice orderright.
So I'm a pioneer connector andevery person has this kind of
voice order.
So it's definitely somethingwe'd recommend to really
recognize that.
Adrian, as you know, whathappens is that everyone speaks
but not everyone's heard.
And when leaders and teams cancreate environments and when
your listeners here canunderstand better what is their
(28:44):
voice, what is their uniquecontribution, everyone wins.
And so there's ways you can gokind of dig into that material
and learn a bit more, which I'dhighly recommend a great book on
the five voices, and so you cancheck that out for sure.
Definite shameless plug,because it would add so much
value to people if you have todo that that that's what
communication's about.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Shameless plugs.
I'd definitely be acommunicator.
I love this one.
Let me ask you about this one.
You and I are privileged totalk and communicate.
For me it's been 30 years and 3million people in a live
setting not even a stream.
But where I'm going with thisone is I'm going to give you a
saying and then I want you tobreak this down.
(29:24):
A wise old owl sat on an oak.
The more he saw, the less hespoke.
The less he spoke, the more heheard.
Why can't we all be like thatbird?
My point is listening as muchas in leadership.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
How important is it to listen, to read the room, to
be aware of yourself.
Break that one down.
That is.
It's absolutely brilliant.
I think, that leaders don't haveall the answers, right, they
(30:03):
ask questions, and to positionyourself as a leader means
you're actually oftentimesyou're speaking less in settings
and asking a lot of greatquestions.
I think that's incredibly,incredibly important and, no
doubt, right.
If we so we, you know I oftentalk talk about leaders focus on
(30:23):
tomorrow and create problems.
Managers focus on today andsolve problems, right, and so
when we create a problem, we'renot supposed to have all the
answers.
That's why we need a team,right, we need a team of people,
or we need to ask for input andlisten to other people.
So, for any person learning toespecially when you're younger
(30:49):
and learning and trying to kindof find your voice, man asking a
lot of questions, getting ajournal writing down responses,
writing down your questions it'skind of a lost art, isn't it?
A lot of folks are just puttingopinions out there in our TGIF
age Twitter, google, iphone,facebook, right Everybody's out
(31:09):
there blurting out what theythink on social media, and few
are remaining curious and askingquestions.
So, yeah, spot on.
I think the more we listen, themore we perceive and understand
and couldn't agree with youmore on that, as well, Let me
give you one more.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That I think is really important is a body
language.
They say words body language55%, Tone is 38% and words are
7%.
Where's that true?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Again, that's why we actuallyhave a tool in Giant that talks
about the power of the mediumand bringing challenge to people
.
Whether it's, you know, online,like text messages or emails or
writing challenging things,it's not the place to do it
because you can't interpret toneright.
So, yeah, aligning all of thatand showing up as somebody who's
(32:02):
fully present, engaged, how wecome across as people Again, all
of it, you know, adrian,there's techniques you can learn
, I guess, to communicatecertain things right.
You know all about that as aspeaker.
But, honestly, one of the mostpowerful things I learned years
ago is you're always going to berelevant when your focus is on
(32:25):
another person and I think, justtruly learning to be present
with people, to listen and staycurious.
It's not like you have to fakea set of body language behaviors
to show something.
It's just like be real, be whoyou are and be fully attentive
and present.
It's going to make a bigdifference.
But, yes, that certainly goesall of that research on that how
(32:51):
you communicate, what you'recommunicating, makes a big
difference.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Wow, listen, the saying is true Time flies when
you're having fun, and this timehas flown.
Where has it gone?
You've given us so many nuggetsabout starting off as the horse
.
No one bet on life-changing inthe Marines and then becoming a
pastor and then a leader andtalked about servant leadership,
and you're saying that if youcan do it, the listeners can do
(33:17):
it too.
Give us one more nugget beforewe let you go.
How can you encourage thelisteners out there to keep
climbing?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So let's see, last Saturday night, my so we have
four children, two girls, twoboys, Our youngest is adopted
from South Korea.
So three bios, one adopted,very family oriented and my wife
and daughter were on a missiontrip to Bosnia for their spring
break and so I decided to takemy sons out to dinner at a nice
little steakhouse and get sometime with them.
(33:50):
They're about to launch intotheir careers and it's an
incredible thing when you watchthose of you that have children,
that are listening, when youwatch them bloom and move
forward, and it's really fun tosee these little deposits that
I've made over the years.
And even though I might feelinadequate or I could do more as
a father, my sons, you know,reminded me we're sitting at
(34:12):
dinner and they're like hey, dad, one of the coolest things you
taught us was sometimes you haveto do the things you don't want
to do to get the results you dowant to get.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Wow, say that again, say that again.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Sure, sometimes you have to do the things you don't
want to do to get the resultsyou do want to get.
And they've both done that.
My one son's a student athleteat Michigan State go green.
My other son's a MichiganWolverine go blue.
So I know that makes no senseto all the college fans
listening, but listen, they'veall done hard things to become
(34:46):
the person that they've desiredto become.
So I would say to your listenersdo hard things, those develop
you, stick with it.
It is worth the toil and thestruggle and feeling like is it
making a difference?
I promise you it's making adifference.
Keep sowing in the rightdirection, even though you may
be experiencing somethingdifferent and you know it will
(35:07):
bring great results.
And so that's something I couldsay anytime I've taken the hard
road, the high road, whateveryou want to call it, I would say
that is something that isreally important, and do it with
gratitude.
Right, the path to humility iscrossed by the bridge of
gratitude.
And so to be humble uh, whetherthat's your whoever, you're
(35:28):
learning that from uh, how to behumble is about gratitude and
being thankful and hopeful.
Um, it's uh, you can change somuch.
I mean, you know about this,Adrian, you could change so much
in your mindset and mindset andhow much actually influence you
have over things.
It starts and ends there.
So I would say, keep going, dothe hard things.
(35:50):
It's worth it and take therisks calculated and knowing
what you're doing, butdefinitely you know step out and
do hard things.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Applause, applause, applause.
Wow, dr B.
Fascinating, it's sincere.
Sincerity keeps friends.
Reliability creates respect.
Tell us real quick where thelisteners can find you if they
want to know more about Dr Brianand your work and what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Man, oh, thanks for that.
I mean, listen, I'm a big, I'mon LinkedIn.
You can just, I guess, searchfor me.
I don't even know my handleoffhand, I think it's Dr Brian
Williamson.
I'm not really promoting a lotof stuff these days, my Facebook
posts.
I do a ton of leadershipFacebook posts, so you can maybe
find me there.
I can give you the links.
I don't know how you post that,but yeah, right now that's it.
(36:37):
You know, I'm just I'm justdoing my thing, enjoying my work
, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thank you, doctor.
Well, I am looking forward toit.
So you fed us and our listenerstoday.
Thank you for your time andwisdom.
I'm looking forward toconnecting with you again and
looking forward to seeing yousoon, dr Brian, everybody, thank
you.
Thank you, sir.
Wow, that was good.
That was good.
That was good.
That was like a good meal.
It's like, wow, I got a foodbuzz.
(37:05):
I'm excited about this one.
Well, folks listen.
If you want to know more aboutus, head on over to
AdrianBranchSpeakscom, follow uson social media at Adrian
Branch Speaks and download theClimb wherever podcasts are
available.
You guys are amazing and I wantyou to remember, be encouraged
and keep climbing.
We'll see you next time,everybody, thank you.
Hi, I'm Adrian Branch , former pro-athlete turned
motivational speaker andcertified life coach, and
welcome to the Climb, a showwhere we celebrate the stories
of resilient people sharing howthey turned adversity into
success, From the businesssector to athletes and beyond.
Be inspired and learn what ittakes to climb.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, hey, everybody, welcome to the Climb, another
show where we get a chance toencourage you.
We're so excited that you'rejoining us.
The Climb is a show that talksabout people's story and what
you can learn from their storiesthe highs, the lows, the
processes.
Man, you may have fallen down,but don't stay down.
What it took to overcome.
(00:46):
And so we're intentional,because everybody has shoes,
issues.
But it's wonderful when you canlearn from others and come away
from this show saying if theycan do it, I can do it too.
If they can overcome, I canovercome as well.
Well, today you're going to bein for a treat, I can overcome
(01:06):
as well.
Well, today you're going to bein for a treat.
This gentleman is just wonderful.
He started out, you would think, as the horse nobody bet on.
He's Dr Brian Williamson.
He's a father, he's been apastor, he's a life coach, he's
a leader and he's just achampion for people's hearts.
And today you're going toidentify with so many of the
verticals of what it took forhim to overcome.
And oh, by the way, he was aMarine too.
(01:27):
So he was a bad man and wethank you for your service.
But I want to welcome my guest,dr B.
So, dr Brian, welcome to theshow, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Adrian, it is an absolute honor and pleasure to
be with you and I'm reallylooking forward to our
discussion together.
When I get to be around peoplelike you that help others to
elevate and soar and get totheir highest possible good, I
know it's going to be a greatinvestment, not only for the
listeners but for myself.
I'm going to get better as aresult of being here, so I'm
(02:00):
grateful for you and for thetime.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, thank you, I want to jump right into it.
I want to get right into yourstory.
So tell us about where you'refrom.
You're an East Coast guy.
I was an East Coast guy,Washington DC, so you're on that
East Coast interstate 95 aswell.
Huh.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I did grow up in New Jersey.
Yes, grew up not so much 95.
I was more of a parkway guy,exit 168.
I grew up in North Jersey,there in a little town called
Hillsdale, and had a great,great upbringing.
I'm half Italian, so I grew upwith mostly my Italian side of
the family.
My father grew up in a towncalled Patterson, new Jersey,
(02:40):
and he had quite a start, quitea humble beginning start and a
challenging start in New Jersey.
But yeah, that's my home oforigin.
I currently live in Michigan.
I became a Midwesterner so ifeveryone's listening and they're
like you don't sound like aJersey guy.
I'm missing the coffee, I'mmissing that Jersey accent, but
it's because I'm a Michigandernow.
But yeah, that's a little bitof my geography from the
(03:04):
beginnings.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm fascinated because you say you're a little
bit of a late bloomer.
So you were starting out andyou really weren't an athlete.
You were more into music, gotinto college and that fraternity
world was getting the best ofyou.
So tell us about where you werestarting to make that
adjustment.
And then the Marines came andstarted to change things.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so for me, you know, Igrew up wonderful home, mom and
dad, you know.
I'll just tell you my dad gaveme a much different experience
of growing up than he had.
He had much to overcome.
So he grew up on the streets ofPatterson, new Jersey, eating
mustard sandwiches, going to thelocal gospel rescue mission for
(03:46):
a meal because his parents wereboth alcoholics and drinking
their sustenance away.
And so my dad in the earlyyears was an alcoholic and had
some challenges as a result ofthat.
And one of the things my dadwould say to me growing up, just
off and on, even though I knewhe loved me, we had a great
(04:07):
relationship most of the times,but he would say to me don't be
stupid all your life In hisfrustration and caveat, probably
out of some stupid things I wasdoing, but nevertheless, as a
young child, you hear thismessage come into and you don't
have really a way to processthat right.
(04:28):
It just goes in, it lands inyour heart.
So one of this I call, like myfather, wound right.
I just grew up believing thelie that I was stupid, and when
you believe a lie you behave inways that are consistent with
that lie right.
In the same way.
I'll give a little sneak peekright.
When you believe truth, truthcan set you free.
(04:50):
Lies will keep you captive.
And so I believed the lie thatI was stupid.
As a result, I had all kinds ofbehaviors attention-seeking
behaviors, all kinds of things.
I regret trying to getacceptance from people and just
being very rude and offensive toteachers and authority figures.
But one thing I did have as anoutlet was music.
(05:11):
So I was a pretty giftedtrumpet player, practiced quite
a bit.
I became first in the regionand the county and the state for
classical and jazz.
I got into something called theMcDonald's Tri-State Jazz Band,
which was the best of NewJersey, new York and Connecticut
, and had scholarship offers toaudition at places like
Juilliard Manhattan School ofMusic, berkeley College of Music
(05:32):
.
But I ended up going to aschool that had a great jazz
department called WilliamPatterson in New Jersey.
Well, pretty much day one whenI arrived I recognized that I
wasn't ready to discipline mytalent at all.
In fact, I had another path Ichose.
So I joined a fraternity and Ipretty much excelled at
fraternity.
I would say I was a fraternitymajor instead of anything else.
(05:55):
So what I did was I had fourmajors and four semesters.
It took that long for me torealize that I needed some
pretty serious help.
I was very unhealthy, veryundisciplined, very unfocused,
and so I pulled over to theMarine Corps recruiter's office
and I'll never forget this.
It was in Ridgewood, new Jersey.
I climbed a whole set of stairsto get to the top of this tiny
(06:19):
little Marine Corps office andhere's this 265 pound beer
drinking out of control, neverexercised a day in my life kind
of person.
And this Marine Corps recruiterlooks at me and he says son,
sit down.
The minute you walk throughthat door, I knew you had what
it takes to be a United StatesMarine.
(06:40):
Now, for the first time,something is swelling up in my
heart Like this challenging.
You know this guy's calling meup, right, I have a principle we
want to call people up, notcall people out.
This gentleman was calling meup into something that I didn't
know was possible, right?
I mean, I knew I was desperate,I needed to become someone that
I wasn't, and so, long storyshort, I just believed.
(07:03):
He began to tell me about thehonor, commitment, integrity,
courage, all of these values inthe Marine Corps, and he said
hey, you're going to need to getto work because you ain't going
to make it in boot camp lookinglike that.
So I've lost a ton of weight265 to 225 before boot camp came
out, 195, lean, mean, marine,right.
But what's more important wasthe mental transformation.
(07:26):
I became a person that believedI could accomplish things that
I didn't before.
I was believing this lie inmyself, that I was stupid, I had
nothing to offer, and so that'ssort of my origin story, if you
will.
That mattered to me a lotreally, to establish myself as a
person of honor and integrity,and so that was yeah, that was
(07:47):
the beginning of an incrediblydifferent life, for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Let me go back for a second, because for the listener
out there that could feel likethe horses nobody bet on.
And dad is saying that youdon't do anything, stupid Boy.
You just reminded me of my dad,who I love, big Charlie.
I'm tall like him, I'mleft-handed like him, I sound
like him and my dad used to getme rest in peace, big Charlie,
but he used to say you're goingto have to come work for me for
(08:13):
$1.99.
And though he was beingfacetious, that used to burn me
up.
My question to you, before wemove on with this what made you
keep going to find thatrecruiter's office?
Because in the Marines.
Then eventually you got marriedand then you also started
pastoring.
What was that one thing, whileyou were really floundering,
(08:34):
that got you to hold on one moreday?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Let me think I want to give that a minute of
reflection too, and I'll commentbefore I respond to say, like
man, I love my parents.
They're both still living andwe have a great relationship
with pops.
He had some life change,stopped drinking and we had a
great relationship even duringthat time too.
So it's great to celebratethose heritage relationships.
I will tell you that the thingis, I pause and reflect with you
(09:01):
, adrian.
The thing that kept me goingwas a vision that I knew deep
down inside there was somethingburied, there was a version 2.0
of Brian Williamson that I justknew was there and even though
that gap was there between myexperience of it and that
(09:23):
reality of it, I knew it wasthere and it was for me that
call, that sort of pull into thefuture that someone different
needed to come out.
That was it.
I think.
If I really say at the core ofit, it was a vision.
It was a vision of a preferredfuture, of who I could become.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I'm glad that you didn't quit on yourself so many
times.
People quit One more day.
Just go one more day, one moreday, Then you get married and
then you start pastoring yourchurch at 25 or so.
So tell us about where theuptick started coming in.
You started to really get intoyour groove.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yes, thanks, right.
Very, very typical career pathMarine Corps, where they train
you to be a cold-blooded MarineI did have you know, faith is
very important to me.
So to tell my story means thatin April of 1995, I had an
incredible change of heart.
I mean, god awakened me, becamea follower of Jesus and really
(10:21):
began to authentically live thatout, even though I had some
roots and heritage in the church.
For me this was a big turningpoint.
So, yes, met.
My wife began pastoring inchurches for about 18 years, you
know, and so you know.
That was a big shift, a changefrom Marine to pastor.
(10:42):
Interestingly enough, in all ofit there's a thread of really
elevating and developing otherpeople.
So in the Marine Corps I'llnever forget this day I got
called up front and they awardedme the Navy and Marine Corps
Achievement Medal.
I can see it right up on myshelf up there and they called
me to the front of the room.
It's for outstanding leadership,and I was shocked because I
(11:06):
didn't own the identity that Iwas a leader, even though I was
in the Marine Corps.
That came a couple of yearslater, when I was on a plane to
South Africa, when the whenrealizing I was a leader dropped
into my heart.
Uh, as someone said to me well,we're going to follow you,
you're the leader, and I didn'tknow I was the leader.
So, anyway, it was interesting,right.
(11:26):
So I, so I, you know, got thisleadership award.
Very interesting.
But even in ministry, right,being a pastor, so the M&M,
marine Ministry, the, the, thedeveloping people piece, right,
I always had a passion to sharewith people how they could be
transformed and how can theybecome someone different.
(11:47):
And so I think, learning to notjust do kind of traditional,
you know, go and you sit in apew on Sunday.
I was very involved incommunities.
In fact, I had the privilege ofstarting a church in Wisconsin
and I got a job at a bar.
When I moved into the town, Igot a job at a bar as a karaoke
DJ, were you any good Were you?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
any good I've got some skills, I'm not afraid of
the microphone.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I'm not a vocalist first but because of my music
background, yeah, there'sprobably a few different
stereotypes right of karaokepeople.
But I did it just to meetpeople right and just to get to
know folks in the community andtalk with them and help them
become better and we served ourcommunity very involved in that.
So for me just that leadershipdevelopment piece and pouring
(12:35):
into people has always been abig value.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So a couple of things are happening now.
So you're entering about your30s and you get a mentor that
says, hey, we want you toexercise this gift more in
leadership, but also then youstart your own consulting
company or really startstretching out.
And one thing I really like is,when you talk about systems,
explain what systems mean.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly right.
I did have the entrepreneurialbug and began to do some
coaching and consulting, andthat was just a great season of
life.
So systems I'm a systems guy atheart, right, and an acronym
for system that I've utilizedfor many, many years is it's
anything that can save yourselfstress time, energy and money
(13:24):
S-Y-S-T-E-M.
Save yourself stress time,energy and money.
And so I began along with abusiness partner.
We built systems and thosesystems solved business problems
, right.
So I moved from ministry intomarketplace.
Right Now I'm the triple M intobusiness, and so building
(13:45):
systems for me is such a it's ajoy, it's a something that you
know.
There, I believe that there aresuccess secrets that are
universal and principles thatare universal, leadership
secrets that are universal.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Give us a nugget Like , for instance, give us a nugget
that is universal secrets.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, sure, I would say that you know, if you are a
person who's a, let's just saythis the law of sowing and
reaping, right, that's auniversal principle.
Like you sow seed into theground, the seed is slow, right,
it's under there, you start tocultivate and all of a sudden
(14:23):
you reap right Eventually.
So if you're in a situation inyour life right now and you're
listening and you're stuck, buthere's someone's listening who's
started to sow that seed andit's not working yet, and I
would just say to you the seedis slow, it's okay, it's just
under the dirt and eventuallyit's going to start sprouting up
(14:45):
, right.
So sowing and reaping isabsolutely a universal success
principle and you can beexperiencing the reaping that
maybe some seed that you wishyou didn't sow, so you could be
in that sort of negative reapingwhile you're in the positive
sowing, getting ready to go intothe positive reaping.
(15:05):
So that's an example, right.
So I like codifying that stuff,pulling it together, and have
done that multiple times withbusiness problems and challenges
.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So yeah, let me ask you this one.
Talk about this one, becauseeveryone can use it, at a boy,
at a girl.
What would you say in yourleadership that the number one
need is acceptance, the numberone fear is rejection?
What would you say to that?
Wow, Gosh.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I mean, I absolutely think that every human being,
we're craving a place to belongright, to find our purpose, to
find that sort of place that's asafe place, you know, a place
where others just understand whowe are at our best and receive
(15:55):
us for all of our warts, and youknow all the things that we
have that are not maybe aspositive.
So I definitely would say thatbeing you know again, being a
leader who, um, really numberone, creates that space.
You know, google did a studycalled project Aristotle years
ago, and they were thinking thatthey were going to find that
(16:17):
the most effective managers werethese skilled managers who were
driving the teams a certain way, and what they found was that
the most important quality ofthese managers that were leading
higher performing teams waspsychological safety, or an
environment where people feltsafe to speak up and to be
themselves right, a place tohave acceptance and not
(16:39):
rejection, as you stated.
So I think it's incrediblyimportant I think that you know,
adrian, as you and I havegotten to know each other right
the fact that we can have mutualconversations, different
backgrounds, but we can buildcommon ground.
It's a fundamental quality forleaders, right, and I think it
all starts with a heart of love,right?
(16:59):
A definition of love that we'veused is fighting for the
highest possible good in thelives of those you lead until it
becomes a present reality,right, and I think that's that.
That is what it's about.
Leadership is a kind of love,and there's researchers and
scholars now pointing that out.
Actually, I mean, you can golisten to people not even from a
(17:21):
faith perspective say, hey, ifyou think about leadership, in a
way, it's a kind of love, it'sa way it's a tangible,
intangible thing.
So, yeah, acceptance, I thinkit's huge, as you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It's interesting.
I just heard this and I knewthat you and I were going to be
teaming up today and I wrotethis down.
This one is for you, dr B, andI know you've heard this before
Meet them where they are at andtake them to where they need to
be.
Break that one down.
Meet them where they are andtake them where they need to be
in leadership.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So good.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So good.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Such a powerful principle and insightful
principle, you know, to meetsomeone where they are, is, you
know, asking somebody forbehavior change right, Like so a
toxic leader on one extreme oran unhealthy leader is going to
say to a person right away likeyou know, you need to do these
(18:17):
things differently or you needto become, you know, right now.
Be this way right Versus havingcuriosity and actually saying,
hey, this is where that person'sat, I'm going to enter their
world and I'm going to reallypull from them their genius,
(18:38):
their gold that's buried insideof them and be able to help them
kind of see what's really there, right, To uncover that
potential that's there.
So I think that's, you know,love is the environment for that
to happen.
And genuine leaders.
So my PhD research on positiveleaders, the number one quality
(18:59):
is this genuine care and concernfor the other.
And that doesn't happen in somefuture version of themselves.
It happens of where's thisperson at, how are they thinking
, how are they feeling?
Can I adjust my you knowbehaviors?
Can I adjust my mindset, mywords, my language to really do
(19:21):
that in order to sort of helpthem take next steps and coach
them in that direction?
So a lot of leaders don't knowhow to power down, Adrian right,
Especially leaders that have aposition of power, maybe a
personality of power.
Some leaders need to learn howto power down and not just
overpower, Because I promise you, if you overpower, others will
(19:42):
always underdevelop, and sothat's what happens in those
environments.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I'm putting my seatbelt on because at the heart
of it, I'm like you, amotivational speaker, and I'm
ready to go.
I'm like, oh my goodness,you're just getting me so
excited here Talking aboutleadership and you just talked
about even in the positive,where you got your doctorate,
and people are four times moreproductive when they can hear
that at a boy.
(20:07):
Is this a truism?
People don't care how much youknow till they know how much you
care.
And it's not about the X's andthe O's, but the Jimmy's and the
Joe's.
Break that one down for us.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, 100 percent Right.
Knowledge, I mean, listen, Ilove competency.
Obviously, I'm a lifelonglearner.
I think leaders are lifelonglearners and leaders are readers
, all the things.
I think that's very important.
A guy named Jeff DeGraff out ofUniversity of Michigan, a great
(20:49):
thinker, and he was talkingabout like research that shows,
you know, it's like facts don'tchange anyone.
Facts are just facts, right?
It's story.
And what you're doing here,adrian, which is so powerful,
this keep climbing vision thatyou have and the vision for
people to really, you know,press on when it's difficult,
right?
So I think that the idea ofthat transformation happening
(21:13):
and genuinely caring.
So here's the thingAuthenticity without integrity
is hypocrisy.
So you can't really fake.
What I mean by that is thislike you've got to be like who
you are, right, you don't.
Managing a second image ofyourself isn't really fun.
Anyway, it's a lot of energyand effort, and so people want
to accept you for who you are.
(21:34):
But I think when we try to fakeit, emotional intelligence
research will show you thatpeople experience you on the
basis of what you truly feelabout them.
You might think that you'refaking it and, you know, trying
to like, in a way, falsely carefor somebody.
Right, you're talking about.
People don't know how much youcare, how much you know, until
(21:56):
they know how much you care, andit has to be genuine.
People are not a means to anend, people are an end.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
That's good, that's good.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
We don't treat people in order to get something from
them, and a lot of leaders don'tunderstand this, right.
A lot of immature leaders,right, there's five levels of
maturity we won't go into today.
But immature leaders, level one, level two, sometimes level
three leaders well, they don'tunderstand that, and so, for
them, people are a means to anend.
Or I have to just care aboutthem enough and be nice to them
so they perform't understandthat, and so for them, people
are a means to an end, or I haveto just care about them enough
and be nice to them so theyperform a certain way, and in
(22:32):
the end, that doesn't work.
So it's gotta be genuine, andthat comes from embracing.
We're all human, adrian.
Right, we all have strugglesand challenges and needs for
love and to be accepted and togrow and all of the things.
So I think you're spot on.
There's everything out of theway, boy.
There's a few more.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I've got so much written down here.
But this is such a deliciousconversation for me because my
dad was a big motivational, hada lot of philosophy and he said
you're not going to be a dumbjock, you're not going to be a
dumb athlete, you're going to beable to think and process.
So this spoke my language righthere.
(23:13):
My question is I want to stopyou right here in the middle of
our conversation and say man,this is such a paradigm shift
from when your dad was sayingyou're a knucklehead, don't be
stupid.
Who is Brian today?
What are you becoming?
What are you unbecoming?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
If you would have told me I don't even know how
many years ago, 10 years ago,you know, 20 years ago that I
would be where I'm at, I'd beshocked.
I would say you've got to bekidding me.
You know, I had no idea wherethis journey would take me.
So you know, today I think thatI've.
(23:54):
So right now, you know, I'mserving a role inside an
organization.
That's a high level role, lotsof responsibility.
There's thousands of peoplethat I get to work with on a
regular basis, not just a few,right, and the impact of that
and so really becoming a sourceof you know.
(24:16):
John Maxwell says success isadding value to yourself.
Significance is adding value toothers, right.
So I think this journey ofdying to myself, my own selfish
desires I'm an independent,entrepreneurial sort of type
person and so I've.
You know, having people as ameans to an end isn't something
(24:39):
that was unfamiliar to me.
So I've unbecome that, by God'sgrace right, and have learned,
like man, the value and I'm justaround.
Incredible people, the leadersof our company that I'm a part
of now, incredible people likeour culture, award-winning,
positive culture.
It's unbelievable to be aroundit.
We had a really famous personspeak at our conference we had
(25:01):
Maxwell Fears go but just saythis culture is remarkable and
it all flows out of thatcharacter, right?
So I think that right now, justrecognizing that my greatest
value is modeling the behaviorsthat that we want to see
replicated, being that person,truly being that person myself,
(25:22):
relentless pursuit of personalgrowth as a company value for us
, and so being that person who'syou know, aligning to my
highest possible self, livingwith integrity, humility,
generosity, all of those things.
So, yeah, I think I don't thinkthere'll be a person listening
that can't resonate with ajourney from self-focus to other
(25:42):
focus, and so that's a big partof it and that's been a big
part of it for me.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No, that's the thing of beauty.
I want to ask you a few morequestions.
I love where you talk about thefive voices.
Tell us about the five voicesand how you break that down.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
Five Voices is a tool that acompany that I was with prior to
my current company is I wascalled Giant started by Jeremy
Kubitschek and Steve CockrumWonderful, wonderful, positive,
incredible leaders and both haveGiant actively years ago before
my current role.
Still am very involved and usesome of the tools and language,
(26:30):
actually use all of the toolsand language that Giant offers.
So Five Voices is a tool thatJeremy and Steve kind of baked
in the oven and what the FiveVoices are, if you think about
you know.
Adrian, an example I like touse is a telephone right.
So there's me and my bride.
So, if you ever listen to yourvoice memo that you leave.
(26:52):
You know the voicemail.
So, hey, this is BrianWilliamson, not available to
take your call.
Go ahead and listen to it afterthis podcast if you haven't in
a while, because your voicedoesn't sound like your voice
that you hear in your head,right, it just sounds different.
My voice doesn't sound likewhat I hear in my own head and
(27:13):
so I like to use that as astarting place to talk about
five voices, because we ask thequestion like what's it like to
be on the other side of you?
How do people experience you?
And the five voices help you tounderstand that.
And the five voices are pioneer,which are more strategic, kind
of vision-oriented people, toughdecisions, prioritizing what's
(27:37):
most important.
There's the connector, which isall about relationships and
sharing good news.
There's the creative, which arevery, very future forward
thinkers that can really see thecore issues and core challenges
with things as they're buildingthis amazing future.
There is the guardian, which isholding up a shield, saying
(27:59):
let's guard what we have that'salready working.
You know, holding up a shieldsaying let's guard what we have
that's already working, almostlike a champion of the due
diligence and details All thefolks taking care of budgets and
things like that are oftentimesguardian voices.
And then there's the nurturervoice, which is that champion of
relational harmony and valuesand people.
So we all speak, all five voices, but what we find out is that
(28:22):
we have kind of a voice orderright.
So I'm a pioneer connector andevery person has this kind of
voice order.
So it's definitely somethingwe'd recommend to really
recognize that.
Adrian, as you know, whathappens is that everyone speaks
but not everyone's heard.
And when leaders and teams cancreate environments and when
your listeners here canunderstand better what is their
(28:44):
voice, what is their uniquecontribution, everyone wins.
And so there's ways you can gokind of dig into that material
and learn a bit more, which I'dhighly recommend a great book on
the five voices, and so you cancheck that out for sure.
Definite shameless plug,because it would add so much
value to people if you have todo that that that's what
communication's about.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Shameless plugs.
I'd definitely be acommunicator.
I love this one.
Let me ask you about this one.
You and I are privileged totalk and communicate.
For me it's been 30 years and 3million people in a live
setting not even a stream.
But where I'm going with thisone is I'm going to give you a
saying and then I want you tobreak this down.
(29:24):
A wise old owl sat on an oak.
The more he saw, the less hespoke.
The less he spoke, the more heheard.
Why can't we all be like thatbird?
My point is listening as muchas in leadership.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
How important is it to listen, to read the room, to
be aware of yourself.
Break that one down.
That is.
It's absolutely brilliant.
I think, that leaders don't haveall the answers, right, they
(30:03):
ask questions, and to positionyourself as a leader means
you're actually oftentimesyou're speaking less in settings
and asking a lot of greatquestions.
I think that's incredibly,incredibly important and, no
doubt, right.
If we so we, you know I oftentalk talk about leaders focus on
(30:23):
tomorrow and create problems.
Managers focus on today andsolve problems, right, and so
when we create a problem, we'renot supposed to have all the
answers.
That's why we need a team,right, we need a team of people,
or we need to ask for input andlisten to other people.
So, for any person learning toespecially when you're younger
(30:49):
and learning and trying to kindof find your voice, man asking a
lot of questions, getting ajournal writing down responses,
writing down your questions it'skind of a lost art, isn't it?
A lot of folks are just puttingopinions out there in our TGIF
age Twitter, google, iphone,facebook, right Everybody's out
(31:09):
there blurting out what theythink on social media, and few
are remaining curious and askingquestions.
So, yeah, spot on.
I think the more we listen, themore we perceive and understand
and couldn't agree with youmore on that, as well, Let me
give you one more.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That I think is really important is a body
language.
They say words body language55%, Tone is 38% and words are
7%.
Where's that true?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Again, that's why we actuallyhave a tool in Giant that talks
about the power of the mediumand bringing challenge to people
.
Whether it's, you know, online,like text messages or emails or
writing challenging things,it's not the place to do it
because you can't interpret toneright.
So, yeah, aligning all of thatand showing up as somebody who's
(32:02):
fully present, engaged, how wecome across as people Again, all
of it, you know, adrian,there's techniques you can learn
, I guess, to communicatecertain things right.
You know all about that as aspeaker.
But, honestly, one of the mostpowerful things I learned years
ago is you're always going to berelevant when your focus is on
(32:25):
another person and I think, justtruly learning to be present
with people, to listen and staycurious.
It's not like you have to fakea set of body language behaviors
to show something.
It's just like be real, be whoyou are and be fully attentive
and present.
It's going to make a bigdifference.
But, yes, that certainly goesall of that research on that how
(32:51):
you communicate, what you'recommunicating, makes a big
difference.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Wow, listen, the saying is true Time flies when
you're having fun, and this timehas flown.
Where has it gone?
You've given us so many nuggetsabout starting off as the horse
.
No one bet on life-changing inthe Marines and then becoming a
pastor and then a leader andtalked about servant leadership,
and you're saying that if youcan do it, the listeners can do
(33:17):
it too.
Give us one more nugget beforewe let you go.
How can you encourage thelisteners out there to keep
climbing?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So let's see, last Saturday night, my so we have
four children, two girls, twoboys, Our youngest is adopted
from South Korea.
So three bios, one adopted,very family oriented and my wife
and daughter were on a missiontrip to Bosnia for their spring
break and so I decided to takemy sons out to dinner at a nice
little steakhouse and get sometime with them.
(33:50):
They're about to launch intotheir careers and it's an
incredible thing when you watchthose of you that have children,
that are listening, when youwatch them bloom and move
forward, and it's really fun tosee these little deposits that
I've made over the years.
And even though I might feelinadequate or I could do more as
a father, my sons, you know,reminded me we're sitting at
(34:12):
dinner and they're like hey, dad, one of the coolest things you
taught us was sometimes you haveto do the things you don't want
to do to get the results you dowant to get.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Wow, say that again, say that again.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Sure, sometimes you have to do the things you don't
want to do to get the resultsyou do want to get.
And they've both done that.
My one son's a student athleteat Michigan State go green.
My other son's a MichiganWolverine go blue.
So I know that makes no senseto all the college fans
listening, but listen, they'veall done hard things to become
(34:46):
the person that they've desiredto become.
So I would say to your listenersdo hard things, those develop
you, stick with it.
It is worth the toil and thestruggle and feeling like is it
making a difference?
I promise you it's making adifference.
Keep sowing in the rightdirection, even though you may
be experiencing somethingdifferent and you know it will
(35:07):
bring great results.
And so that's something I couldsay anytime I've taken the hard
road, the high road, whateveryou want to call it, I would say
that is something that isreally important, and do it with
gratitude.
Right, the path to humility iscrossed by the bridge of
gratitude.
And so to be humble uh, whetherthat's your whoever, you're
(35:28):
learning that from uh, how to behumble is about gratitude and
being thankful and hopeful.
Um, it's uh, you can change somuch.
I mean, you know about this,Adrian, you could change so much
in your mindset and mindset andhow much actually influence you
have over things.
It starts and ends there.
So I would say, keep going, dothe hard things.
(35:50):
It's worth it and take therisks calculated and knowing
what you're doing, butdefinitely you know step out and
do hard things.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Applause, applause, applause.
Wow, dr B.
Fascinating, it's sincere.
Sincerity keeps friends.
Reliability creates respect.
Tell us real quick where thelisteners can find you if they
want to know more about Dr Brianand your work and what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Man, oh, thanks for that.
I mean, listen, I'm a big, I'mon LinkedIn.
You can just, I guess, searchfor me.
I don't even know my handleoffhand, I think it's Dr Brian
Williamson.
I'm not really promoting a lotof stuff these days, my Facebook
posts.
I do a ton of leadershipFacebook posts, so you can maybe
find me there.
I can give you the links.
I don't know how you post that,but yeah, right now that's it.
(36:37):
You know, I'm just I'm justdoing my thing, enjoying my work
, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thank you, doctor.
Well, I am looking forward toit.
So you fed us and our listenerstoday.
Thank you for your time andwisdom.
I'm looking forward toconnecting with you again and
looking forward to seeing yousoon, dr Brian, everybody, thank
you.
Thank you, sir.
Wow, that was good.
That was good.
That was good.
That was like a good meal.
It's like, wow, I got a foodbuzz.
(37:05):
I'm excited about this one.
Well, folks listen.
If you want to know more aboutus, head on over to
AdrianBranchSpeakscom, follow uson social media at Adrian
Branch Speaks and download theClimb wherever podcasts are
available.
You guys are amazing and I wantyou to remember, be encouraged
and keep climbing.
We'll see you next time,everybody, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!