In this episode of The Lighting Fires Podcast, Executive Coach Julie Williams sits down with Pete Wharton, Managing Director of Wharton Natural Infrastructure Consultants, and winner of Professional Forester of the Year. Pete shares his coaching journey and how it helped him rediscover his purpose, lead with clarity, and reconnect with his values as a business leader.
From climbing trees in Ipswich to building one of the UK’s leading environmental consultancies, Pete opens up about navigating leadership challenges, imposter syndrome, and the importance of bringing more of yourself into your work. This episode is a powerful reflection on how executive coaching can unlock personal growth, authentic leadership, and a renewed sense of direction.
Topics We Cover:
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Rediscovering your purpose through executive coaching
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Leading a values-driven business
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Overcoming leadership doubt and imposter syndrome
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Making space for reflection and celebrating success
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Speaking out as a leader: miscarriage awareness and vulnerability
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Building a business that feels meaningful—and fun
Julie’s Coaching Tips:
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Reconnect with what first inspired your career or business
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Create a “career timeline” to identify moments of meaning and purpose
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Leadership isn’t about suppressing yourself—it’s about showing up fully
Useful Links:
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Start with Why by Simon Sinek – a brilliant guide to identifying your purpose
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Julie Williams, Executive Coach: www.lightingfires.co.uk
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Pete Wharton: www.whartons.co.uk
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Email Julie: julie@lightingfires.co.uk
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Connect with Julie on LinkedIn: Julie Williams MSc
- Interested in a free taster 'Ignite your Business' session with Julie? Check out the next available session here: https://www.
eventbrite.co.uk/o/lighting- fires-julie-williams- 14355302598
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5* rating and share it with someone on their own coaching journey. Your support helps others discover these powerful conversations about leadership, purpose, and growth.
Artwork by Ian Guppy
Music by Penguin Music via Pixabay
Produced by Perri Hurley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pete (00:03):
For me, you were, I could see you were gonna challenge me, but it was gonna
be an approach that I could basicallyaccept as opposed to not be told.
It was gonna be far more of a conversationand we would basically go with a flow of
actually where I needed support becauseI've never had any business training.
(00:24):
I'd never gone through a coachingprogram with an individual.
Yeah, so I think that that was kindof, for me, it was pivotal 'cause
I have to connect with a personbecause I probably at that time
realized there were perhaps thingsgoing wrong that I needed to address.
I needed to concentrate on myself.
And it wasn't just about the business.
This was actually me as a person.
(00:46):
How could I improve as a person?
Julie (00:50):
Welcome to the Lighting Fires podcast.
My name is Julie Williams and I'm a coach.
I have a master's in coaching behaviorchange, 10 years of coaching experience
and 15 years in marketing leadershiproles in the corporate world.
In my work, I gain the benefitof walking with people through
(01:11):
their lives for a short time.
So on this podcast, you'll getto hear from clients experiencing
key moments of change in theirbusiness and personal lives.
We'll hear what lit their fires andthe techniques or coaching moments that
created significant shifts for them.
I hope you find their story inspiring.
(01:35):
In this episode, we'll meet PeteWharton, the managing director of
Wharton, one of the leading naturalinfrastructure consultancies in the UK.
Pete has recently been shortlistedfor the Professional Forester of the
Year by the Institute of CharteredForesters, where he supports young
foresters working towards Chartership.
(01:55):
Pete and I first met in the lobby of aHilton Hotel on the outskirts of Oxford to
see if we would have the right chemistryto embark on a coaching relationship.
I'm pleased to say that that went well.
So what can you expect in this episode?
We talk about taking risks as abusiness owner, the rollercoaster of
owning a business, the importance ofreflecting back on our achievements and
(02:19):
celebrating, plus goal setting, and thepressure we can put ourselves under.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
So today I have Pete Wharton joining me.
Pete, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Pete (02:36):
Yeah.
Thanks so much for havingme on this podcast, Julie.
It's fantastic to comehere and, uh, record this.
So, yeah.
I'm Pete Wharton.
I'm the director of WhartonNatural Infrastructure Consultants.
We're an environmental consultancyspecialising our borrow culture of
biodiversity, net gain, and ecology.
Julie (02:51):
Thank you.
So Pete, you and I did somecoaching work together.
Uh, I guess probably we startedat the start of 2022 and we worked
together for about a year, didn't we?
So, yeah.
Pete (03:04):
Yeah.
We worked together and it was througha period of change for me as a
person, but also for the business.
I just needed somebody to come and speakto and to kind of get a bit more clarity
on where the business was going, but alsoas a person kind of improve my leadership
skills, but also work out well, where wasI going wrong or what could I improve on?
Um, so yes, it was a reallykind of fortuitous event.
(03:26):
Really
Julie (03:27):
felt like a very pivotal moment in your
Pete (03:29):
massively so
Julie (03:30):
business, working life.
Personal life.
Yeah.
So it was, it was a very interesting kindof journey that we embarked on together.
Yeah.
I wonder if you could just tellus a bit about your backstory.
Pete (03:43):
Yeah, so I set up the business up in 2008, three weeks before the
recession at that point in time, whichwas a bit of a challenge, a bit of
a risk, but I think every businessowner takes a risk at some point.
And going back even further than that,actually doing a lot of kind of like
soul searching as to why I got into theindustry, which is our borrow culture.
So studying of trees being around nature.
(04:05):
I actually have to go all the way back tobeing a little kid, climbing trees as a
kid, falling outta trees, getting muddy.
We didn't have PlayStations,we didn't have anything.
I think it was the spectrum at the time.
And you didn't have aremote control for your tv.
It was probably black andwhite for a certain part.
And I lived in Ipswich at the time and Iwent back there during Covid just to show
my, my kids basically that this is whereI grew up and it was only at that point.
(04:30):
So what age would I have been?
39, 38, 39, and it suddenly triggereda massive emotional attachment
for me that for my whole childhoodI've been surrounded by one park,
which was Christchurch Park inthe center of Ipswich, and it's
just littered with veteran trees.
And we went there in autumn.
(04:50):
There was autumn leavesall over the floor.
It was spectacular.
And that reflection really kindof triggered this emotional
connection to, this is probablywhy I got into the industry I did.
Why I set up a business where I could beoutside, where I could be connected with
nature, where I was advising people ofhow they could be connected to nature.
(05:10):
And actually when we firstmet, I realized that most of my
life was spent behind a desk.
Julie (05:16):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (05:16):
And so I'd gone from one extreme to the other.
So the whole backstory is really thatI wanted to be working in nature for
the whole of my life, but throughbusiness growth, business development.
Julie (05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (05:27):
I'd actually ended up where I didn't want to be, which was sat
behind a desk typing reports, orI suppose ultimately dealing with
staff issues or HR issues very often.
Um, so yeah, so that'skind of the backstory.
I set the business up.
It was just meant to be formyself and my wife and children.
Um, I had one at the time, so on thatparticular day when I decided to go
(05:48):
into full-time self-employment, I had.
Just remortgaged my house.
My daughter was probably six months old.
We'd moved house.
It was a fairly stressful timein, in lives, and then I suddenly
decided it would be a good ideato go, go from basically part-time
employment and self-employment tojust full-time self-employment.
(06:10):
And it's been a, arollercoaster of a ride.
Julie (06:12):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (06:13):
And anybody who tells you.
It's not a rollercoaster of a ride.
I think they're, they're probablyon a different level to me anyway.
Yeah.
So we decided in 2014 to employ our firstperson, and that kind of opened up my eyes
to perhaps it could be more than just me.
And actually perhaps if the business grew,then could we do other things as well.
(06:34):
And we formulated a bit of aplan and then looked at it.
So we bought ecology in-houseand we started to develop that.
And we've now got a team of 12 of us now,and we're trying to continually expand.
Now.
We have shrunk the business downslightly, but we are now looking to
kind of push forward with a new plan.
And particularly as this, we are in anenvironmental crisis right now across, not
(06:58):
only in the country, but across the world.
And actually we want to have some impactand positive change on that and how
people look at the environment and howthey can introduce it into their everyday
lives and get some benefit from it.
So yeah, so it's, that's a, I supposea potted history of, uh, where we've
done and we, we've just been through 15years of the business and I did do a,
like a, an actual potted history of thewhole thing and in terms of where the
(07:20):
business started, where it went to, andactually where we want to go to next.
Yeah.
So it's exciting times.
Julie (07:25):
Yeah, that sounds like a fascinating exercise in looking back
and seeing where you've come from.
Pete (07:31):
Yeah, and I think this, I dunno, I think most business owners are
probably people who only look forward.
We don't generally look back and takein the time to sit there and reflect.
Um, I know in our coaching sessions we dida huge amount of reflection to get to some
pretty difficult and challenging times.
But those challenging timesformulate who you are.
(07:52):
And within that formulation, you can kindof reflect on those and either take some
massive positives from it, or you canlook at the negatives of it as well and
actually say, well, what did I do then?
How can I change it and how can Imake sure it doesn't happen again?
Um, so I think it's, it wassomething I'd never done.
And perhaps you live in a bit of fearof what does it bring back to you
(08:13):
that you don't want to even remember?
Julie (08:14):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (08:14):
Um, or.
Perhaps you've just forgotten about itcompletely and you just think, actually,
let's just park that and move forward.
Julie (08:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think you're right.
A lot of entrepreneurs, business owners.
Are very highly motivated and they lookforward all of the time and they don't
tend to to pause and look back andrealize where they've come from, but
actually that that is often part of thework that I do with my coaching clients,
is starting by looking back atwhat you've achieved already.
(08:45):
Yeah, and I, I do find quite alot of the people I work with that
that's quite a difficult exercise.
I, I set people a bit of a task eitherto do it with me or in their own time.
Yeah.
And I remember asking you to lookback at everything you've achieved
so far in your life and you puttogether kind of a visual document.
Pete (09:05):
Yeah, you certainly did.
It was, yeah.
I'm a, I'm a very visual person.
I'm very kind of, it's hands on.
It's, I'm not particularly good atreading or writing and those kind
of things, so actually visualizingthese things and actually you've
helped me massively in that part.
Of actually how I've goneever since we first met.
But yeah, I do remember that.
'cause I, I think I concentrated on thenegatives quite a lot, um, of perhaps what
(09:27):
I hadn't quite achieved as opposed to.
Going back even further and saying, well,what did you achieve as a young person?
What drove you to do those things?
It's one specific moment in mylife and it was kind of that moment
where you've got no inhibition,you are motivated by your own self.
One of my highest achievementswas playing the violin, which
(09:49):
many people won't ever know.
They look at me as a, not anoutgoing lad, but I'm kind of, fairly
like full on when I need to be.
When I play rugby, I do all thesedifferent sports, but from a fairly
young age, I played the violinuntil until an accident happened
and it just meant I just gave it up.
But it was this one moment in my lifewhere I made a conscious decision I was
(10:11):
gonna do something and I heard a pieceof music, which was Nigel Kennedy playing
the Four Seasons, Vivaldi, Four Seasons.
I heard it from that minutewhen I was six years old.
And I decided I wanted to playthe violin and it was one of, it
was that first moment of like,I'm gonna make a choice here.
Julie (10:30):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (10:31):
I learnt the violin until the point I could play this piece of
music and I could play it withoutany music, no, any script in front
of me, I could just go and play it.
And that was probably the first timelooking back where I really made a
determined effort to do something.
And that's probably instilledin everything I do now.
The, I suppose the big thing thatcame out of it was I was looking for
(10:53):
perfection and I was looking for,right, I can play this, recite a
piece of music, which is however manyminutes long and play the whole thing.
And then you put thatinto your adult life.
Julie (11:03):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (11:04):
And as a child, you kind of just get on with it.
As an adult you're kind of continuallylooking for perfection and continue
look, looking for those things.
And actually you might never get it,but that was probably my first childhood
reflection of a such a happy moment.
And I always go back to it now.
So that's kind of, I thinkwhere that first kind of bit
of determination came from.
Julie (11:25):
That story's just giving me goosebumps actually.
Yeah.
It's really powerful.
Pete (11:30):
Playing music also highlighted a number of other things.
So it was with another teacher whenI'd moved up to the Midlands who
recognized I can't keep a beat, I can'ttap my foot and I can't click in time.
And that's how theyrealized I was dyslexic.
Julie (11:44):
Really?
Pete (11:44):
Yeah.
So it's interesting, like thethings you learn where you don't
think you would do, so it's uh
Julie (11:49):
mm.
Pete (11:50):
Yeah, it's, it's opened up a, opens up a whole bag of worms
Julie (11:54):
and I'm also recollecting some of the other achievements.
But I mean, honestly, I remember lookingat this piece of paper that you'd,
I'd printed off, you'd sent to me.
Um.
Thinking, oh my goodness, thisperson has achieved so much and yet
is so modest about these things.
(12:16):
So I think you'd doneIron Man competitions.
There's a lot of kind ofathletic achievements.
Pete (12:24):
Yeah, there was a bit of stuff and I think again.
I think even in our journey, youtook me to a place that I never
thought I'd go back to, um, whichwas a real challenge for me.
So I was quite, I wasknown at primary school.
I think they named me Sporty Wharty.
I wasn't the most athletic,I wasn't the most agile.
I. But what I did do was put a hundredpercent into it and I would give it
(12:46):
my very best shot to do, and I think,and do it to the best of my ability.
But that also came at a cost because I'vebecome quite focused on certain things,
and I did that as a teenager, but thatkind of focus was going the wrong way.
So I was playing rugby a lot, but Iwas also, as we do, I got into alcohol.
I got into those kind of, thethings I shouldn't have been doing.
(13:08):
And I moved away fromhome at the age of 18.
And at that point just went into like a,I suppose, a bit of a spiral of decline.
I, I think you would, uh, lookat it now and nearly gave up.
University I'd got massively overweight.
I think I was.
I probably topped out on thescales at about 18 stone, which
some people won't ever believe.
Julie (13:29):
I find that really hard to believe.
Pete (13:30):
There's, um, there's a picture of me and a, I just look like a darts player.
I've got a big Hawaiian shirt on.
Completely bald head, and I was, itwas just, and it was a real troublesome
time for me, but I also made a decision'cause I could realize I, I wasn't gonna
be able to fulfill my dream of climbingtrees basically at that point all of my
life, because I was just too overweight.
I couldn't haul myselfaround a canopy of a tree.
(13:50):
It was, it was really bad.
So I lost, I think it was, I wentdown from 18 stone down to about
11 stone very quickly, and that wasjust through like exercise and just
determination, actually improvingmy life, cutting out the alcohol.
But probably as with every businessowner and every person who's determined
you, you want the next challenge.
(14:10):
So I think we had our first child,Millie, and I was still playing rugby
at this point in time, but I, I knew thebody was kind of saying at some point,
you've gotta give up rugby, but I neededsomething else to drive me forward.
And sport was one of thosethings that did it for me.
It was in 2013, I just decidedI was gonna go run a marathon.
And it was to, it was to raise money andit, all these things that I do have always
(14:35):
been to try and do something else with it.
So Jen and me had had a miscarriage.
It had been on Christmas day.
It had been prettyawful experience for us.
But I made it my specific mission thatone thing that wasn't talked about at
that time was how men deal with it.
And it's one of these taboosubjects for obvious reasons.
Nobody wants to talk about thesethings, but if we don't talk about
(14:58):
it, how can we improve the situation?
And I'd never realised at that time howmany people go through this process.
And we weren't very far into thepregnancies, but it still hurts.
It still hurts Jen continually.
So I thought, right, I'mgonna go and run a marathon.
But the challenge is I'm gonna runit and I'm gonna raise money for the
miscarriage association and whichis a small association charity.
(15:19):
So I did that and it was, Herbie wasborn, so between the two pregnancies, we'd
had the miscarriage, and then Herbie wasborn and it was in that year that I went.
So he was born in the November.
In the April I ran the marathon, butI also decided, right, gotta raise as
much money as possible and awareness.
So I was, I was basically one of theirambassadors and was for quite a while.
(15:39):
So I ran the marathon.
But again, it's one of those things,you run a marathon, I set myself a goal.
I set myself this goal fourhours round London Marathon,
never run that distance before.
And I was running and running andrunning and I was, I was on time.
Everything was going well.
I got over the line and itsaid four hours, seven minutes,
(16:02):
and I was like, why has that happened?
What happened there?
I was with the three hours 50.
At one point I was withthe three hours, 30 people.
I then realized that the balloonsat that time, they weren't
big flags as they are now.
The guy had actually got injured, so I wasfollowing what I thought the person was.
Um, so I went from jubilation within30 seconds of crossing the line to
(16:27):
sheer frustration, and I was upset.
I was really, really, basically peedoff of myself that I'd done all this
training and I hadn't achieved the goal.
So I went back the followingyear, did it in three hours, 57.
So that was okay.
It was fine.
I, I'd achieved the goal that Iwanted to achieve, but actually it
sparked something else in my head.
(16:48):
And that was the drive togo and do something else.
And I think, yeah, if you'veprobably spoke to Jen now, she'd
be like, this was a disaster.
What?
What else can he do?
So I think I did three or fourmarathons at that point and like,
but then it was the next thing.
And I live in extremes as likeas I've spoken about already.
(17:08):
Like I live in extremes of likeweight gain, weight loss, sporting
achievement, not achievingviolin, achieving not achieving.
So I decided to signup for an Ironman race,
which seemed like agreat idea at the time.
Julie (17:24):
I was just thinking about, you know, all these
incredible accomplishments.
So that first marathon wasstill an incredible achievement.
It may not have been, it was okay.
Yeah.
That time.
Yeah.
But actually, you know, it's,it's still a huge thing.
Yeah.
And I'm just thinking abouthow sometimes we don't.
We can't internalise our accomplishments.
(17:45):
We can't take them in and baskin them or, or acknowledge them.
Pete (17:50):
No, I think I would completely agree with that.
And I think some people just, well,some people can and some people can't.
And perhaps at that time I wasn't,for me personally, I wasn't in a place
where I could do, 'cause I just saw itas a bit of a failure and it didn't.
You kind of go back to the reason why Idid it for the charity and actually what
I did for the charity and what I did for.
(18:11):
Like the rugby team, for example.
The rugby team is a,a bunch of lads, lads.
We have a bit of alaugh, have a few drinks.
We don't talk that much aboutspecific things, but what it,
what it made me realise wasthere was one lad in particular.
I remember the night, I'm sat ina hotel the night before and I'd
raised all the money I needed to.
(18:32):
There was no problems, and suddenlyI got a massive donation through.
And I was just like,where's this come from?
And I read it, where it come from,and the message he put, and I was in
bits because we hadn't really talkedabout it, but he said, I've spoken
now you've spoken up about this.
(18:53):
I can now accept what I went through.
And I think he'd hadfive or six miscarriages.
Julie (18:59):
Gosh.
Pete (19:01):
And for him to open up like that, I was just like, wow.
That's, that's thepower of what I've done.
Is that I've got these people speakingand we're best mates, like we're
I, I now coach his lad in rugby.
Um, and I have full respect for the chap.
He's, he's brilliant.
But it was that kind of thingthat you just don't, you,
when you're in the moment, youforget about that kind of thing.
(19:21):
But when you reflect on thesethings, they're the power.
That's the power that you've done.
Um, so yeah, so I think.
I completely agree.
We don't reflect enough or look,probably, and Jen would say this
about me, you become tunnel visioncompletely focused on something.
You completely remove your wayaround the periphery and the impact
you can have on those things.
So yeah.
So it's uh, yeah, importantstuff I think that we can
(19:43):
perhaps forget or I certainly do.
Yeah.
That's, that's very moving actually,and it shows, I think, how that.
Ability to have the tunnel visionserves you really well in lots of ways.
You also have the occasionaldownside, I guess.
Oh, it can have a massive
downside.
(20:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's it, I think it'sgetting the balance, isn't it?
I think with all these things, andactually probably as humans, particularly
as like young people, we're always,we've gotta learn these things.
They're not things that are, it'sa bit like running a business.
Julie (20:17):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (20:17):
We are not told how to do X, Y, and Z. There is no
definitive path of how you do it.
So you have to formulate yourown way of doing these things.
But I think that reflection piece thatyou took me to, and you were probably
the first person to do that with me.
It gave me the ability to now look farwider than and just, and actually make
a conscious effort to say, well, ifI do X, Y, and Z, what's the impact?
(20:41):
And what if I don't do it?
What's the impact if I dodo it, what's the impact?
And have I considered everything?
Julie (20:47):
Mm.
Pete (20:48):
Um, so I think that that's vitally important for me.
Julie (20:50):
Yeah.
So a bit of a shift in perspective then.
Pete (20:53):
Yeah, completely.
Julie (20:54):
So, so going back to when we started the coaching
Pete (20:57):
Yep.
Julie (20:58):
So what, what were you hoping to get outta it?
You're obviously at a pivotalmoment in business and in your
working life, in your personal life,so, so what were you hoping for?
Pete (21:10):
Yeah, so I, I'd had coaching beforehand.
Julie (21:12):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:12):
And it was very.
Formulaic.
Julie (21:14):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:15):
It was very much, this is the process you're gonna follow.
And it was all about business growth.
It was about, you follow thisspecific task and it like
you're held accountable to that.
Which for me, as a person, like beingtold what to do, I haven't always
struggled with it, but I don't, it'snot something I, I particularly enjoy.
And I'd spoken to a few people andthey, one person was kept on coming
(21:37):
into conversation, which was yourself.
So I think we met in a, it wasin a hotel with Jen just to
see if we were gonna click.
And that was at the start of January?
Yeah, in 2022.
And actually for me, you were, Icould see you were gonna challenge me.
Julie (21:54):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:56):
But it was gonna be an approach that I could basically accept as
opposed to not be told it was gonnabe far more of a conversation.
And we would basically go with a flowof actually where I needed support.
Because I've never hadany business training.
I've never gone through a. Coachingprogram with an individual.
Yeah.
So I think that that was kind of,for me, it was pivotal 'cause I
(22:18):
have to connect with a person.
Julie (22:19):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (22:20):
Because I probably at that time realized there were
perhaps things going wrong
Julie (22:24):
mm-hmm.
Pete (22:25):
That I needed to address.
Julie (22:26):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (22:27):
But actually I think what our coaching did, and this is probably
where the previous coaching hadn'tdone, I needed to concentrate myself.
And it wasn't just about the business.
This was actually me as a person.
How could I improve as a person?
Because we were going through a time ofchange in the business we'd grown rapidly
through Covid and I think Covid had hadsome good, good impact, but it had also
(22:49):
some massively negative impact as well.
Julie (22:50):
Yeah.
'cause I remember quite a lot of peoplehad left the business, hadn't they?
For lots of different reasons.
Pete (22:55):
Yeah.
Julie (22:55):
Through Covid.
So you were at quite a different place.
Pete (22:59):
Yeah.
I think I was at one of thoseliving in extremes at a very low
pace and a place where I wouldneed to do some soul searching of.
Is this me or is this just peoplemaking different decisions?
And actually I can'tcontrol those decisions.
And perhaps there's an elementof control as well there that
you, you look at and you think,
I, I wanna be in control of a situation,but I'm not in control of a situation.
(23:23):
And I, I needed a support network aroundme, which was completely external.
From the business to understand, right,okay, if we go in this direction,
what will happen if we don't do this?
What will happen?
And I think you realised fairly quicklywith me that I'm quite a visual person.
I prefer to visualise things.
And we did Myers Briggs and I remembergetting this like I, I dunno, is it like a
(23:45):
15 page report of my personality profile?
And I remember you, then yousent me an email and you said.
Is this you?
And it was a visual diagramof how you deal with stress
and it was somebody sat there.
In your calm state, you're working away asstress and people and anxiety builds up.
(24:06):
You are doing more and more stuff,but actually what it also turned
into was you're going out moreand more and more and more, and
that was your coping mechanism.
And that's exactly what I was doing.
And I remember it just hit me likea, like a 10 ton rock basically,
that this is what I'm doing.
And actually there's nogetting me back at that point.
So I have to therefore take areally conscious look at things
(24:27):
and say, you've gotta stop that.
So, yeah.
So it was a, it was, it waspivotal in what I was doing.
I think it was probablypivotal for Jen and me as well.
Yeah.
And we, I think every session wewere going through and we were trying
to visualize, right, what did Iwant the company to look like and
who are those key people within it?
And then it seemed to be, itwas, it was like a continual.
(24:48):
Thing with us.
I think there was always some,something had gone wrong.
Um, and it at that point, 'causeit was happening so frequently,
we were kinda like, how do weget some positives outta this?
And that, that was areal challenge actually.
Um, because you becomevery low in yourself.
Um, but yeah, we talked things through,I remember one session we did where we
(25:09):
were visualising, you bought a a box ofbasically figures and characters, and we
were basically designing the team aroundthese characters, and I had to go through
and say, right, well why is this, but whydid you use that person to represent you?
And it was phenomenal.
Julie (25:24):
Mm.
Pete (25:25):
And I remember that was quite a pivotal moment for me because we could
define a team, but I could also see italso highlighted a few other things,
which was the business wasn't goingin the direction I wanted it to go in.
I'd taken too much of a step back.
Julie (25:38):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (25:39):
And I wasn't accepting the standard I wanted in the business.
I was accepting that people weredoing things almost to their own
accord and not quite how I wouldaccept them or expect them to do it.
And there was, it was just a challenge.
But confronting that challengewas quite difficult at that time.
'cause I probably wasn'tin the right mindset.
(26:00):
So your expertise was very much around.
Almost counseling me and helpingme through things as well as trying
to sort out the business as well.
Julie (26:10):
Yeah, it was interesting 'cause I remember when, when we talked about what
you wanted to achieve from the coaching,there was obviously we were talking
about business growth and developing thebusiness, but there was also very much.
Your own personal development at theheart of this, and we, we kind of
moved between those two topics a lot,but we probably spent more time on,
(26:34):
on you and the personal development.
And, and as a coach, this journey ofworking with you was very significant.
It felt like.
I really wanted to support you.
I mean, I always feel like that withall my clients, but I, I felt a real
sense of responsibility that thiswas such a pivotal time for you.
(26:58):
And as coaches, we are required to havesomething called professional coaching
supervision, which is where we either.
Take our coaching scenarios andclients in an anonymised way.
Yeah.
We, we talk to our peers orpeople with more experience and
this helps us to maintain ourethical and professional practice.
(27:18):
And I did take our work a coupleof times to different supervision
groups because I felt that sense ofresponsibility and, and with that came.
Quite a lot of, um, emotionalwork on my part too, I think.
Right.
Which I, it doesn't always happen.
(27:41):
I mean, I think I tend to take on people'sstuff a little bit and emotions, so
some coaches are, are kind of betterat probably water off a duck's back.
But that's, I, I think because it isthe nature of the working relationships
that I have with my clients.
Maybe it's a bit different for me,but I remember wanting a bit of
(28:03):
support so that I could support you.
Yeah, because I think we probably.
Um, went up to the, theboundaries of counseling.
Sometimes I don't think wegot into that space, which was
really important that we didn't.
Pete (28:17):
Yeah, definitely.
Julie (28:18):
That's not what coaching is about, but I think we, we
were definitely kind of at times,
Pete (28:23):
oh, we were on the fringes of things and I don't think because of
the visualisation part of it and thegoing back to where certain things
were driven from, and I think thatthat's something I'd never done.
Because one of the things thatcame outta Myers-Briggs was this
perfectionist kind of thing.
Where's that come from?
And actually, that's quite adifficult thing to go through
and nothing I'd ever done before.
(28:43):
So whoever had bought thatoutta me was probably gonna
need, um, some help as well.
Julie (28:49):
And I'm just thinking about, um, there's a neurolinguistic programming
technique called backtracking beliefs,which I think we used, which is where
you, you are backtracking, you're goingback in your mind to at what point a
belief started, not with a desire todelve into that in a way that would
(29:10):
be therapeutic and counseling, but inorder for you to look at that belief.
Uh, and, and see what youthought before you believed that?
Yeah.
Because sometimes we develop abelief at a a point in our lives,
which we then take with us.
And actually it might not be true atall, and it might not be serving us
Pete (29:30):
Yeah.
Julie (29:30):
Very well.
So, but, but that workis quite challenging.
Pete (29:35):
It's challenging.
It's something you don'tdo in your day to day life.
And, and I think it, it wasvitally important for me.
It was, for me personally, it was soimportant to get to that point because
I think it was probably somethingthat was holding me back, not only in
day-to-day life, but it was holdingme back, certainly in business.
So, yeah, so I think that the discussionswe had, yeah, they were, they were very
(29:56):
meaningful, but they were also reallyimportant at that point in my life to
overcome perhaps some of the fears thatwere holding, holding me back, but also.
Yeah.
To, to start to challenge things a bitdifferently, um, and turn things around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie (30:11):
I'm just thinking with a lighter moment in mind.
Yeah.
There was a very funny, I
Pete (30:17):
know where this is going.
Julie (30:20):
So we used to meet at the Malmasion in Oxford, which I have to say they
were very generous in, uh, in allowingus to kind of meet in a restaurant
and, and I guess the first thing Iremember is we were looking at a kind
of exercise of thinking about where youwanted to take the business and because
the, all the breakfast customers hademptied out, the restaurant was empty.
(30:41):
Yeah.
We would often use, they have, theyhave a small private dining room in the
Malmaison, just off the main restaurantand there's a, this kind of circular
room obviously had been part of the, theprison and there was this kind of circular
table and we would sit there and veryquiet because the walls were very thick
(31:02):
and then high up on the wall there wastiny window with some metal barriers.
So we had probably spent aboutan hour in there at that point.
Probably had a bit longer and we got upto leave and I went to open the door.
And was it that it came off in my hand or?
Pete (31:24):
It was either
or?
Just what?
I don't think the handle was there.
Julie (31:27):
Yeah, that's right.
Pete (31:28):
There just was no handle.
Julie (31:29):
Yeah.
Pete (31:29):
Um,
Julie (31:30):
and I think at first we just thought it was quite funny.
Pete (31:33):
Yeah.
Julie (31:34):
And then we remember that nobody
Pete (31:35):
Panic set in.
Julie (31:35):
Nobody was actually in the restaurant.
Pete (31:38):
Yeah.
Julie (31:38):
So I think we did a little bit banging on the door, but there
was a real tangible sense of panic.
But I wanted to remain,sorry, remain professional.
I was just trying to think.
How are we gonna get out of here?
Because the minute started going by.
Yeah.
I thought, well, what if
Pete (31:56):
nobody could hear us at that point?
And there's no win becauseit's an old prison.
There's no windows or anything,so nobody could even see
into the room, I don't think.
Julie (32:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But by, some absolute miracle.
You had the exact toolswe needed in your backpack
Pete (32:09):
I think that's called being a, uh, an outdoor person at that time,
probably a scout or a cub leader and.
Yeah, so out came the trustyleatherman and uh, lo and behold,
it's the most useful it's ever been.
'cause we managed to, I think,basically clamp onto the little
turny thing in the door andactually managed to get out there.
(32:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's something I do recall toquite a few people actually.
Whenever the leatherman comes out, I havea little wry smile on my face because it's
been used to actually escape something.
So if anybody ever needs to escapeprison keep a leatherman on you.
Julie (32:43):
Yeah, so, so that is definitely a very strong memory of our work together,
and I wonder what it symbolises.
Pete (32:51):
Yeah, I think it's a, yeah, perhaps being equipped for what you've got hand
in hand or ahead of you perhaps, then.
Julie (32:56):
Yeah.
And being resourceful.
Pete (32:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie (33:02):
Are you feeling stuck and need some help moving forwards at lighting fires?
I work with business leaders,future leaders, and their teams.
To ignite their full leadership potential.
Whether you're a business owneror leading in an organisation,
we can work together to create aprogram tailored to your priorities.
(33:23):
Throughout our coaching together, I seemy clients' confidence and capabilities
grow as they gain a greater understandingof how they work, learn to make quicker
decisions and develop a vision for theirrole, and a plan on how to get there.
Through the challenges andthe breakthroughs, you'll
have me by your side.
(33:43):
Get in touch on LinkedIn or emailme julie@lightingfires.co uk.
So I'm just thinkingabout our coaching work.
Are there other, any other moments?
Of change or something shifted for you?
Pete (34:02):
I've got clarity of thought on certain things in terms of the direction
of the business, but also perhaps goingrather than continually pushing and
pushing and pushing, which I have atendency to do, I think because I set my
own standards fairly high, but I have abar that can never be obtained, but I kept
on without realising it's setting a bar.
(34:23):
We'd achieve it.
We would never celebrate it.
We would never look back on it.
And it was reflecting on thenegatives a lot of the time, but
not allowing the team to celebrate.
Julie (34:31):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (34:32):
Um, and now we actually plan things.
We plan things to celebrate.
And that was pretty pivotal for me becauseit wasn't something that I'd done, and I
think probably because I was scared thatif I hadn't achieved everything, then I'd
failed, and you, I lived in this failure.
So that was one of my massive takeawaysfrom everything was living more present.
(34:58):
Don't just continue.
Look for the next thing.
Don't move the bar.
Don't continually, like ifyou've got a goal that you're
going for, well hit the goal.
You don't need to go massively beyondit, or you've set the goal because
that's what you want to achieve.
You definitely achieve beyond up above it.
So that was a big turning point for me.
(35:18):
But also I think going back to whyI set the business up, I believe
in kind of being fair with people.
It's something that I was raisedwith as a Quaker that people
should have opportunity and thereshould be an emphasis on fairness.
But also I think I'd also forgottenthat I was the director of the company
(35:39):
and actually I have like, I haveto firstly stand up and be counted.
But secondly, I, I'm allowed an opinion.
Julie (35:46):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (35:47):
And I've been battered down at that point that my opinion virtually didn't
count, and I was almost accepting that.
So, yeah.
So it was really opened my eyes to thosethings that actually yeah, don't, I
suppose, go away from your own valuesand beliefs and all those things,
but you also have to have, you'regonna have difficult conversations.
You're gonna have these other, otherelements within work life where
(36:08):
things might not work out, but,don't let it just like completely
dictate where you're going.
Um, so yeah, so it, it got me outtasome major holes and just gave
me a better clarity of thought.
Actually you can have some fun.
You still gotta do your work, but actuallyyou kind of, you can still get that done
and you don't mind putting the extraeffort in because it, it was fun and
(36:29):
I think I'd lost that through Covid.
Julie (36:30):
Oh my gosh.
And fun is so important at work.
I know people cringe a bit when wetalk about having fun at work, but I
genuinely, I look back at my career.
And some of the funniest moments, themost enjoyable moments have been with work
colleagues in all sorts of situations.
Yeah.
Often because you're with people whoyou might not pick to be your friends,
(36:52):
but you get to know really differentdiverse personalities and get thrown
into situations you don't expect.
Pete (36:59):
Yeah.
And I think they all have a, a reallyinsightful opinion as well, and things
that you might not hear otherwise.
And even this week, we've hada new lady starting our team.
And it's the first time in probably fouryears that I've spent a week with a brand
new person coming out as a graduate.
Gone into the field with them.
(37:20):
We've surveyed some sites.
We've spent way too much time on thesesites, but it's been the best week
because actually I've been learningloads, but she's also been kind of like
asking so many questions and I'm, youforget actually, that's what you studied.
And actually that's why he got into it.
I didn't get into it tomanage tons of people.
I got into it because I, I likelooking at nature and actually
(37:42):
understanding that, and that'swhere the level of expertise is.
Yeah.
So it kind of, it allcomes around full circle.
I think just having it goes back tothe team and actually having that right
team around you that you can actuallysay, I can trust you to do that.
We can go in this direction.
We're all on the same bus together withoutpeople pulling in other directions.
And that, that's vital.
Julie (38:01):
Yeah.
I mean having the right people around youand sometimes that does require really
difficult decisions and situations to, toget you to that point, but it then means
that you can relax and you know, you'vegot people who are expert and you trust.
Yeah,
Pete (38:18):
and I think actually it showed this last week, so I've been away
for a week and it was the first timeI've gone on holiday in 15 years.
But I remember leaving theoffice on the friday evening and
thinking, actually, I can go away.
These guys have got it.
There's not gonna be a drama,there's not gonna be any issues.
Julie (38:39):
Well, that had come up in our coaching, hadn't it?
I remember talking about how youfelt like you couldn't go away
and not take your laptop with you.
'cause things often didcrop up or go a bit wrong.
So this is fantastic that you are
Pete (38:52):
Oh, it's, it's great.
Yeah.
And yeah, those little days when you areon holiday with a family and I remember
like my lad Herbie having a bit of a go atme, sat on a chair lift and I'm emailing
people and he's not present in the moment.
You are like 3000 meters or 3000feet in the air on the top of a
mountain looking over the worldand you're looking at your phone.
(39:13):
And actually it goes back tobeing present in that moment,
um, which was really important.
Julie (39:21):
Okay, so at this point in the interview.
I am going to ask you to pick arandom question out of my, bowl.
Out
Pete (39:31):
the bowl.
Okay.
Let's go that one.
Julie (39:33):
Let see.
See what you come up with.
Pete (39:37):
Oh, okay.
So, uh, biggest success and what ifyou break it down, contributed to this.
That's quite a challenging one becauseyou can look at it in different ways.
Like the biggest success probablyhas to be having a family.
Julie (39:49):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (39:50):
That's a fairly big success, but I suppose that's a
fairly standard, standard thing.
Biggest individual success.
Is probably turning my life aroundfrom the age of 18, and it took
20 years almost to realise it.
So nearly leaving university,all those kind of things.
The reason why it was a 20 year successis because I hadn't realised that how much
(40:13):
impact that how in my life and to put astop on it to say I've done something.
Um, so yeah, to do that Ironman race,but that was the culmination of training,
but also the mental, the mental strengthto say, look, I'm gonna go and do this.
And it, I suppose it goes back to thatwhole thing of like, living life extremes.
(40:36):
So yes, those, those challenges.
So the successes really kind of.
Reflecting on why you did it.
So yeah, so I think that was probablyprobably the biggest success.
Julie (40:49):
That sounds like an incredible success.
What would your advice be to somebodywho's in a similar situation?
Pete (40:56):
Speak to people, speak to the right people.
I think it's one of these things youkind of surround yourself with people,
like with friends and close people.
Don't be scared to speak out about it.
It's interesting that I wasn't scaredto speak out about miscarriage.
I'm not bothered about speakingto anybody about being overweight
or drinking too much or goinginto like these crazy sports, and
(41:20):
I'll happily help people do that.
But the one thing I'd never spokeout about was mental health.
Because I'd never probablywanted to address it.
Never really took, takena deep look at myself.
So having people around you, and it'ssomething I've discussed within our
industry as well, is actually there'sa lot of sole traders out there who
(41:40):
will be under a lot of pressure.
Particularly like right now, likecost of living goes up, all these
different things go up, and actuallyperhaps people aren't directors, they
haven't got those thing, the peoplearound them to be able to speak to.
So actually, why didn't you havea group just where it's kind of,
yeah, everything stays in that room.
Julie (41:58):
Yeah.
Pete (41:58):
And actually, but you can have a chat about it because once you've spoken
to one person about it, you generally findthat other people have been through it.
And I've certainly found thatparticularly in the last 12 or 18 months.
Julie (42:09):
It's amazing, isn't it?
Once you pluck up the courage to tellone person what you're going through.
So often they say, ohyeah, that happened to me.
Yeah.
Well, I experienced that or thathappened to somebody really close to me.
And yeah, I mean, that happenedto me really recently where I was
really shy to tell people aboutsomething that I was going through
(42:33):
and, and then I just discoveredthat nearly everybody I spoke to had
been through exactly the same thing.
I was like, oh, okay.
But there's still so many taboos out therethat we need to keep breaking, don't we?
Pete (42:46):
Yeah.
And I think it helps everybodyaround you as well, if they see that.
There isn't just like aface that just never breaks.
So yeah, so I think it'squite a bit of vulnerability.
Julie (42:55):
I think being able to role model vulnerability is, is really important.
I agree.
I was just reflecting before westarted our conversation today on at
one point in the coaching, I asked.
What could have been betterin terms of coaching?
And I think one of the things youmentioned was that perhaps I could have
held you to account a bit more often.
(43:16):
So yeah, I was just curious.
Pete (43:17):
Yeah, the account, yeah, it's an interesting.
Accountability is an interesting one.
I'm somebody who can get sidetrackedfairly easily on things, even as
you found on having this chat today.
Um, and perhaps I didn't realisethat at the time, but I think
the accountability to say, right,okay, you haven't done something.
Why haven't you done it?
Is I find quite a strong thing for me,and that probably comes from sporting.
Julie (43:41):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (43:41):
Kind of like coaching, like whether it be rugby coaching and things.
But it was always immediate.
And particularly when we were talkingabout perhaps some of those subjects I
didn't want to talk about all the time.
That was it.
Yeah.
It was, I think the accountabilityis vital for some people
Julie (43:55):
I think.
I think it is.
And I think I remember lookingback, thinking sometimes he
hasn't, he hasn't done some of thethings he said he was gonna do.
Right.
But also often.
Other really pressing things werecoming up and coming up into the
conversation and maybe I allowedmyself to be distracted a little bit.
Pete (44:13):
Yeah.
I dunno.
If you ask my team where do Ido everything a hundred, no.
And it is, it is a continualthing that comes up in my life.
Is it?
I think Lou actually put it to mereally well the other day she said.
You get to 80 or 90% there, Pete, butdon't quite get that a hundred percent.
And I was like, yeah, you're right.
(44:34):
Yeah.
That's where you need peoplearound you to kind of help you.
Julie (44:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's a goodlearning for me is, is to push
a little bit more sometimes.
I think that would be useful.
So Pete, thank you.
I've.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this.
I think we've been aroundthe houses on many topics.
Pete (44:51):
Yeah.
Julie (44:52):
We have, um, all really interesting and really relevant
to leaders and business owners.
So, um, perhaps I could ask thatyou might come back another time
and we could do a coaching session.
Pete (45:04):
Yeah, definitely.
I'd love to do that and thank youfor all that you've, like very
often in our coaching sessions youwere ears and you were a set of.
Like just advisory person tome and really helped me kind of
just unpick and unravel things.
And I think that's sometimes what businessleaders need is just somebody who they
(45:26):
can turn to and like even now we havetelephone conversations and things
like that and it's, I come away fromthem just thinking I've learned, I've
learned a lot, but also somebody's justthere who's kind of listened and I think
that's sometimes we feel very alone.
And actually that's quite a lonely place.
So, yeah.
And you've, it's been wonderful.
Um, yeah, so thank you foreverything you've done for me.
Julie (45:49):
It's a pleasure.
Thank you very much.
As I reflect back on the interviewwith Pete, I'm really struck by
the depth of the coaching work andthe coaching relationship here.
It was a really deeply trustingrelationship, which I really valued.
(46:10):
But not all coaching work islike that, and that's fine.
My top tips for this episode, the firstis take a look at your sense of purpose.
Ask yourself what reallyconnects you to your passion
in your role or your business.
Pete talked about revisiting ChristchurchPark in Ipswich in east of England.
(46:32):
He saw all the old trees from hischildhood and rediscovered his
emotional connection to nature.
This moved him onto the nextsuccessful phase for his business.
Many of you'll be familiar withthe work of Simon Sinek, either
through his TED Talks or books,including Finding Your Why.
I can highly recommend this forclarifying your own purpose, but
(46:55):
also that of your team or your brand.
My second top tip is try mappingout a history of your life
and business achievements.
Focus on the highs.
Noticing what has been inspiringfor you over the years and what
do the highs have in common?
I recently revisited this exercise formyself and notice that I need to be
(47:17):
learning and around inspiring peopleat the moments when I achieve the most.
If you'd like to find out how wecould work together, you can visit
my website, www.lighting fires.co.uk
email me at julie@lightingfires.co.ukor contact me on LinkedIn.
(47:40):
Julie Williams, MSC.
If you found this podcast helpful,please leave a five star rating
so others just like you can findme and benefit from these stories.
Thank you for listening tothe Lighting Fires podcast.
I'll be back soon with moreconversations with my wonderful clients
(48:01):
reflecting on their coaching journeys.
For me, you were, I could see you were gonna challenge me, but it was gonna
be an approach that I could basicallyaccept as opposed to not be told.
It was gonna be far more of a conversationand we would basically go with a flow of
actually where I needed support becauseI've never had any business training.
(00:24):
I'd never gone through a coachingprogram with an individual.
Yeah, so I think that that was kindof, for me, it was pivotal 'cause
I have to connect with a personbecause I probably at that time
realized there were perhaps thingsgoing wrong that I needed to address.
I needed to concentrate on myself.
And it wasn't just about the business.
This was actually me as a person.
(00:46):
How could I improve as a person?
Julie (00:50):
Welcome to the Lighting Fires podcast.
My name is Julie Williams and I'm a coach.
I have a master's in coaching behaviorchange, 10 years of coaching experience
and 15 years in marketing leadershiproles in the corporate world.
In my work, I gain the benefitof walking with people through
(01:11):
their lives for a short time.
So on this podcast, you'll getto hear from clients experiencing
key moments of change in theirbusiness and personal lives.
We'll hear what lit their fires andthe techniques or coaching moments that
created significant shifts for them.
I hope you find their story inspiring.
(01:35):
In this episode, we'll meet PeteWharton, the managing director of
Wharton, one of the leading naturalinfrastructure consultancies in the UK.
Pete has recently been shortlistedfor the Professional Forester of the
Year by the Institute of CharteredForesters, where he supports young
foresters working towards Chartership.
(01:55):
Pete and I first met in the lobby of aHilton Hotel on the outskirts of Oxford to
see if we would have the right chemistryto embark on a coaching relationship.
I'm pleased to say that that went well.
So what can you expect in this episode?
We talk about taking risks as abusiness owner, the rollercoaster of
owning a business, the importance ofreflecting back on our achievements and
(02:19):
celebrating, plus goal setting, and thepressure we can put ourselves under.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
So today I have Pete Wharton joining me.
Pete, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Pete (02:36):
Yeah.
Thanks so much for havingme on this podcast, Julie.
It's fantastic to comehere and, uh, record this.
So, yeah.
I'm Pete Wharton.
I'm the director of WhartonNatural Infrastructure Consultants.
We're an environmental consultancyspecialising our borrow culture of
biodiversity, net gain, and ecology.
Julie (02:51):
Thank you.
So Pete, you and I did somecoaching work together.
Uh, I guess probably we startedat the start of 2022 and we worked
together for about a year, didn't we?
So, yeah.
Pete (03:04):
Yeah.
We worked together and it was througha period of change for me as a
person, but also for the business.
I just needed somebody to come and speakto and to kind of get a bit more clarity
on where the business was going, but alsoas a person kind of improve my leadership
skills, but also work out well, where wasI going wrong or what could I improve on?
Um, so yes, it was a reallykind of fortuitous event.
(03:26):
Really
Julie (03:27):
felt like a very pivotal moment in your
Pete (03:29):
massively so
Julie (03:30):
business, working life.
Personal life.
Yeah.
So it was, it was a very interesting kindof journey that we embarked on together.
Yeah.
I wonder if you could just tellus a bit about your backstory.
Pete (03:43):
Yeah, so I set up the business up in 2008, three weeks before the
recession at that point in time, whichwas a bit of a challenge, a bit of
a risk, but I think every businessowner takes a risk at some point.
And going back even further than that,actually doing a lot of kind of like
soul searching as to why I got into theindustry, which is our borrow culture.
So studying of trees being around nature.
(04:05):
I actually have to go all the way back tobeing a little kid, climbing trees as a
kid, falling outta trees, getting muddy.
We didn't have PlayStations,we didn't have anything.
I think it was the spectrum at the time.
And you didn't have aremote control for your tv.
It was probably black andwhite for a certain part.
And I lived in Ipswich at the time and Iwent back there during Covid just to show
my, my kids basically that this is whereI grew up and it was only at that point.
(04:30):
So what age would I have been?
39, 38, 39, and it suddenly triggereda massive emotional attachment
for me that for my whole childhoodI've been surrounded by one park,
which was Christchurch Park inthe center of Ipswich, and it's
just littered with veteran trees.
And we went there in autumn.
(04:50):
There was autumn leavesall over the floor.
It was spectacular.
And that reflection really kindof triggered this emotional
connection to, this is probablywhy I got into the industry I did.
Why I set up a business where I could beoutside, where I could be connected with
nature, where I was advising people ofhow they could be connected to nature.
(05:10):
And actually when we firstmet, I realized that most of my
life was spent behind a desk.
Julie (05:16):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (05:16):
And so I'd gone from one extreme to the other.
So the whole backstory is really thatI wanted to be working in nature for
the whole of my life, but throughbusiness growth, business development.
Julie (05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (05:27):
I'd actually ended up where I didn't want to be, which was sat
behind a desk typing reports, orI suppose ultimately dealing with
staff issues or HR issues very often.
Um, so yeah, so that'skind of the backstory.
I set the business up.
It was just meant to be formyself and my wife and children.
Um, I had one at the time, so on thatparticular day when I decided to go
(05:48):
into full-time self-employment, I had.
Just remortgaged my house.
My daughter was probably six months old.
We'd moved house.
It was a fairly stressful timein, in lives, and then I suddenly
decided it would be a good ideato go, go from basically part-time
employment and self-employment tojust full-time self-employment.
(06:10):
And it's been a, arollercoaster of a ride.
Julie (06:12):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (06:13):
And anybody who tells you.
It's not a rollercoaster of a ride.
I think they're, they're probablyon a different level to me anyway.
Yeah.
So we decided in 2014 to employ our firstperson, and that kind of opened up my eyes
to perhaps it could be more than just me.
And actually perhaps if the business grew,then could we do other things as well.
(06:34):
And we formulated a bit of aplan and then looked at it.
So we bought ecology in-houseand we started to develop that.
And we've now got a team of 12 of us now,and we're trying to continually expand.
Now.
We have shrunk the business downslightly, but we are now looking to
kind of push forward with a new plan.
And particularly as this, we are in anenvironmental crisis right now across, not
(06:58):
only in the country, but across the world.
And actually we want to have some impactand positive change on that and how
people look at the environment and howthey can introduce it into their everyday
lives and get some benefit from it.
So yeah, so it's, that's a, I supposea potted history of, uh, where we've
done and we, we've just been through 15years of the business and I did do a,
like a, an actual potted history of thewhole thing and in terms of where the
(07:20):
business started, where it went to, andactually where we want to go to next.
Yeah.
So it's exciting times.
Julie (07:25):
Yeah, that sounds like a fascinating exercise in looking back
and seeing where you've come from.
Pete (07:31):
Yeah, and I think this, I dunno, I think most business owners are
probably people who only look forward.
We don't generally look back and takein the time to sit there and reflect.
Um, I know in our coaching sessions we dida huge amount of reflection to get to some
pretty difficult and challenging times.
But those challenging timesformulate who you are.
(07:52):
And within that formulation, you can kindof reflect on those and either take some
massive positives from it, or you canlook at the negatives of it as well and
actually say, well, what did I do then?
How can I change it and how can Imake sure it doesn't happen again?
Um, so I think it's, it wassomething I'd never done.
And perhaps you live in a bit of fearof what does it bring back to you
(08:13):
that you don't want to even remember?
Julie (08:14):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (08:14):
Um, or.
Perhaps you've just forgotten about itcompletely and you just think, actually,
let's just park that and move forward.
Julie (08:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I think you're right.
A lot of entrepreneurs, business owners.
Are very highly motivated and they lookforward all of the time and they don't
tend to to pause and look back andrealize where they've come from, but
actually that that is often part of thework that I do with my coaching clients,
is starting by looking back atwhat you've achieved already.
(08:45):
Yeah, and I, I do find quite alot of the people I work with that
that's quite a difficult exercise.
I, I set people a bit of a task eitherto do it with me or in their own time.
Yeah.
And I remember asking you to lookback at everything you've achieved
so far in your life and you puttogether kind of a visual document.
Pete (09:05):
Yeah, you certainly did.
It was, yeah.
I'm a, I'm a very visual person.
I'm very kind of, it's hands on.
It's, I'm not particularly good atreading or writing and those kind
of things, so actually visualizingthese things and actually you've
helped me massively in that part.
Of actually how I've goneever since we first met.
But yeah, I do remember that.
'cause I, I think I concentrated on thenegatives quite a lot, um, of perhaps what
(09:27):
I hadn't quite achieved as opposed to.
Going back even further and saying, well,what did you achieve as a young person?
What drove you to do those things?
It's one specific moment in mylife and it was kind of that moment
where you've got no inhibition,you are motivated by your own self.
One of my highest achievementswas playing the violin, which
(09:49):
many people won't ever know.
They look at me as a, not anoutgoing lad, but I'm kind of, fairly
like full on when I need to be.
When I play rugby, I do all thesedifferent sports, but from a fairly
young age, I played the violinuntil until an accident happened
and it just meant I just gave it up.
But it was this one moment in my lifewhere I made a conscious decision I was
(10:11):
gonna do something and I heard a pieceof music, which was Nigel Kennedy playing
the Four Seasons, Vivaldi, Four Seasons.
I heard it from that minutewhen I was six years old.
And I decided I wanted to playthe violin and it was one of, it
was that first moment of like,I'm gonna make a choice here.
Julie (10:30):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (10:31):
I learnt the violin until the point I could play this piece of
music and I could play it withoutany music, no, any script in front
of me, I could just go and play it.
And that was probably the first timelooking back where I really made a
determined effort to do something.
And that's probably instilledin everything I do now.
The, I suppose the big thing thatcame out of it was I was looking for
(10:53):
perfection and I was looking for,right, I can play this, recite a
piece of music, which is however manyminutes long and play the whole thing.
And then you put thatinto your adult life.
Julie (11:03):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (11:04):
And as a child, you kind of just get on with it.
As an adult you're kind of continuallylooking for perfection and continue
look, looking for those things.
And actually you might never get it,but that was probably my first childhood
reflection of a such a happy moment.
And I always go back to it now.
So that's kind of, I thinkwhere that first kind of bit
of determination came from.
Julie (11:25):
That story's just giving me goosebumps actually.
Yeah.
It's really powerful.
Pete (11:30):
Playing music also highlighted a number of other things.
So it was with another teacher whenI'd moved up to the Midlands who
recognized I can't keep a beat, I can'ttap my foot and I can't click in time.
And that's how theyrealized I was dyslexic.
Julie (11:44):
Really?
Pete (11:44):
Yeah.
So it's interesting, like thethings you learn where you don't
think you would do, so it's uh
Julie (11:49):
mm.
Pete (11:50):
Yeah, it's, it's opened up a, opens up a whole bag of worms
Julie (11:54):
and I'm also recollecting some of the other achievements.
But I mean, honestly, I remember lookingat this piece of paper that you'd,
I'd printed off, you'd sent to me.
Um.
Thinking, oh my goodness, thisperson has achieved so much and yet
is so modest about these things.
(12:16):
So I think you'd doneIron Man competitions.
There's a lot of kind ofathletic achievements.
Pete (12:24):
Yeah, there was a bit of stuff and I think again.
I think even in our journey, youtook me to a place that I never
thought I'd go back to, um, whichwas a real challenge for me.
So I was quite, I wasknown at primary school.
I think they named me Sporty Wharty.
I wasn't the most athletic,I wasn't the most agile.
I. But what I did do was put a hundredpercent into it and I would give it
(12:46):
my very best shot to do, and I think,and do it to the best of my ability.
But that also came at a cost because I'vebecome quite focused on certain things,
and I did that as a teenager, but thatkind of focus was going the wrong way.
So I was playing rugby a lot, but Iwas also, as we do, I got into alcohol.
I got into those kind of, thethings I shouldn't have been doing.
(13:08):
And I moved away fromhome at the age of 18.
And at that point just went into like a,I suppose, a bit of a spiral of decline.
I, I think you would, uh, lookat it now and nearly gave up.
University I'd got massively overweight.
I think I was.
I probably topped out on thescales at about 18 stone, which
some people won't ever believe.
Julie (13:29):
I find that really hard to believe.
Pete (13:30):
There's, um, there's a picture of me and a, I just look like a darts player.
I've got a big Hawaiian shirt on.
Completely bald head, and I was, itwas just, and it was a real troublesome
time for me, but I also made a decision'cause I could realize I, I wasn't gonna
be able to fulfill my dream of climbingtrees basically at that point all of my
life, because I was just too overweight.
I couldn't haul myselfaround a canopy of a tree.
(13:50):
It was, it was really bad.
So I lost, I think it was, I wentdown from 18 stone down to about
11 stone very quickly, and that wasjust through like exercise and just
determination, actually improvingmy life, cutting out the alcohol.
But probably as with every businessowner and every person who's determined
you, you want the next challenge.
(14:10):
So I think we had our first child,Millie, and I was still playing rugby
at this point in time, but I, I knew thebody was kind of saying at some point,
you've gotta give up rugby, but I neededsomething else to drive me forward.
And sport was one of thosethings that did it for me.
It was in 2013, I just decidedI was gonna go run a marathon.
And it was to, it was to raise money andit, all these things that I do have always
(14:35):
been to try and do something else with it.
So Jen and me had had a miscarriage.
It had been on Christmas day.
It had been prettyawful experience for us.
But I made it my specific mission thatone thing that wasn't talked about at
that time was how men deal with it.
And it's one of these taboosubjects for obvious reasons.
Nobody wants to talk about thesethings, but if we don't talk about
(14:58):
it, how can we improve the situation?
And I'd never realised at that time howmany people go through this process.
And we weren't very far into thepregnancies, but it still hurts.
It still hurts Jen continually.
So I thought, right, I'mgonna go and run a marathon.
But the challenge is I'm gonna runit and I'm gonna raise money for the
miscarriage association and whichis a small association charity.
(15:19):
So I did that and it was, Herbie wasborn, so between the two pregnancies, we'd
had the miscarriage, and then Herbie wasborn and it was in that year that I went.
So he was born in the November.
In the April I ran the marathon, butI also decided, right, gotta raise as
much money as possible and awareness.
So I was, I was basically one of theirambassadors and was for quite a while.
(15:39):
So I ran the marathon.
But again, it's one of those things,you run a marathon, I set myself a goal.
I set myself this goal fourhours round London Marathon,
never run that distance before.
And I was running and running andrunning and I was, I was on time.
Everything was going well.
I got over the line and itsaid four hours, seven minutes,
(16:02):
and I was like, why has that happened?
What happened there?
I was with the three hours 50.
At one point I was withthe three hours, 30 people.
I then realized that the balloonsat that time, they weren't
big flags as they are now.
The guy had actually got injured, so I wasfollowing what I thought the person was.
Um, so I went from jubilation within30 seconds of crossing the line to
(16:27):
sheer frustration, and I was upset.
I was really, really, basically peedoff of myself that I'd done all this
training and I hadn't achieved the goal.
So I went back the followingyear, did it in three hours, 57.
So that was okay.
It was fine.
I, I'd achieved the goal that Iwanted to achieve, but actually it
sparked something else in my head.
(16:48):
And that was the drive togo and do something else.
And I think, yeah, if you'veprobably spoke to Jen now, she'd
be like, this was a disaster.
What?
What else can he do?
So I think I did three or fourmarathons at that point and like,
but then it was the next thing.
And I live in extremes as likeas I've spoken about already.
(17:08):
Like I live in extremes of likeweight gain, weight loss, sporting
achievement, not achievingviolin, achieving not achieving.
So I decided to signup for an Ironman race,
which seemed like agreat idea at the time.
Julie (17:24):
I was just thinking about, you know, all these
incredible accomplishments.
So that first marathon wasstill an incredible achievement.
It may not have been, it was okay.
Yeah.
That time.
Yeah.
But actually, you know, it's,it's still a huge thing.
Yeah.
And I'm just thinking abouthow sometimes we don't.
We can't internalise our accomplishments.
(17:45):
We can't take them in and baskin them or, or acknowledge them.
Pete (17:50):
No, I think I would completely agree with that.
And I think some people just, well,some people can and some people can't.
And perhaps at that time I wasn't,for me personally, I wasn't in a place
where I could do, 'cause I just saw itas a bit of a failure and it didn't.
You kind of go back to the reason why Idid it for the charity and actually what
I did for the charity and what I did for.
(18:11):
Like the rugby team, for example.
The rugby team is a,a bunch of lads, lads.
We have a bit of alaugh, have a few drinks.
We don't talk that much aboutspecific things, but what it,
what it made me realise wasthere was one lad in particular.
I remember the night, I'm sat ina hotel the night before and I'd
raised all the money I needed to.
(18:32):
There was no problems, and suddenlyI got a massive donation through.
And I was just like,where's this come from?
And I read it, where it come from,and the message he put, and I was in
bits because we hadn't really talkedabout it, but he said, I've spoken
now you've spoken up about this.
(18:53):
I can now accept what I went through.
And I think he'd hadfive or six miscarriages.
Julie (18:59):
Gosh.
Pete (19:01):
And for him to open up like that, I was just like, wow.
That's, that's thepower of what I've done.
Is that I've got these people speakingand we're best mates, like we're
I, I now coach his lad in rugby.
Um, and I have full respect for the chap.
He's, he's brilliant.
But it was that kind of thingthat you just don't, you,
when you're in the moment, youforget about that kind of thing.
(19:21):
But when you reflect on thesethings, they're the power.
That's the power that you've done.
Um, so yeah, so I think.
I completely agree.
We don't reflect enough or look,probably, and Jen would say this
about me, you become tunnel visioncompletely focused on something.
You completely remove your wayaround the periphery and the impact
you can have on those things.
So yeah.
So it's uh, yeah, importantstuff I think that we can
(19:43):
perhaps forget or I certainly do.
Yeah.
That's, that's very moving actually,and it shows, I think, how that.
Ability to have the tunnel visionserves you really well in lots of ways.
You also have the occasionaldownside, I guess.
Oh, it can have a massive
downside.
(20:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's it, I think it'sgetting the balance, isn't it?
I think with all these things, andactually probably as humans, particularly
as like young people, we're always,we've gotta learn these things.
They're not things that are, it'sa bit like running a business.
Julie (20:17):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (20:17):
We are not told how to do X, Y, and Z. There is no
definitive path of how you do it.
So you have to formulate yourown way of doing these things.
But I think that reflection piece thatyou took me to, and you were probably
the first person to do that with me.
It gave me the ability to now look farwider than and just, and actually make
a conscious effort to say, well, ifI do X, Y, and Z, what's the impact?
(20:41):
And what if I don't do it?
What's the impact if I dodo it, what's the impact?
And have I considered everything?
Julie (20:47):
Mm.
Pete (20:48):
Um, so I think that that's vitally important for me.
Julie (20:50):
Yeah.
So a bit of a shift in perspective then.
Pete (20:53):
Yeah, completely.
Julie (20:54):
So, so going back to when we started the coaching
Pete (20:57):
Yep.
Julie (20:58):
So what, what were you hoping to get outta it?
You're obviously at a pivotalmoment in business and in your
working life, in your personal life,so, so what were you hoping for?
Pete (21:10):
Yeah, so I, I'd had coaching beforehand.
Julie (21:12):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:12):
And it was very.
Formulaic.
Julie (21:14):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:15):
It was very much, this is the process you're gonna follow.
And it was all about business growth.
It was about, you follow thisspecific task and it like
you're held accountable to that.
Which for me, as a person, like beingtold what to do, I haven't always
struggled with it, but I don't, it'snot something I, I particularly enjoy.
And I'd spoken to a few people andthey, one person was kept on coming
(21:37):
into conversation, which was yourself.
So I think we met in a, it wasin a hotel with Jen just to
see if we were gonna click.
And that was at the start of January?
Yeah, in 2022.
And actually for me, you were, Icould see you were gonna challenge me.
Julie (21:54):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (21:56):
But it was gonna be an approach that I could basically accept as
opposed to not be told it was gonnabe far more of a conversation.
And we would basically go with a flowof actually where I needed support.
Because I've never hadany business training.
I've never gone through a. Coachingprogram with an individual.
Yeah.
So I think that that was kind of,for me, it was pivotal 'cause I
(22:18):
have to connect with a person.
Julie (22:19):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (22:20):
Because I probably at that time realized there were
perhaps things going wrong
Julie (22:24):
mm-hmm.
Pete (22:25):
That I needed to address.
Julie (22:26):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (22:27):
But actually I think what our coaching did, and this is probably
where the previous coaching hadn'tdone, I needed to concentrate myself.
And it wasn't just about the business.
This was actually me as a person.
How could I improve as a person?
Because we were going through a time ofchange in the business we'd grown rapidly
through Covid and I think Covid had hadsome good, good impact, but it had also
(22:49):
some massively negative impact as well.
Julie (22:50):
Yeah.
'cause I remember quite a lot of peoplehad left the business, hadn't they?
For lots of different reasons.
Pete (22:55):
Yeah.
Julie (22:55):
Through Covid.
So you were at quite a different place.
Pete (22:59):
Yeah.
I think I was at one of thoseliving in extremes at a very low
pace and a place where I wouldneed to do some soul searching of.
Is this me or is this just peoplemaking different decisions?
And actually I can'tcontrol those decisions.
And perhaps there's an elementof control as well there that
you, you look at and you think,
I, I wanna be in control of a situation,but I'm not in control of a situation.
(23:23):
And I, I needed a support network aroundme, which was completely external.
From the business to understand, right,okay, if we go in this direction,
what will happen if we don't do this?
What will happen?
And I think you realised fairly quicklywith me that I'm quite a visual person.
I prefer to visualise things.
And we did Myers Briggs and I remembergetting this like I, I dunno, is it like a
(23:45):
15 page report of my personality profile?
And I remember you, then yousent me an email and you said.
Is this you?
And it was a visual diagramof how you deal with stress
and it was somebody sat there.
In your calm state, you're working away asstress and people and anxiety builds up.
(24:06):
You are doing more and more stuff,but actually what it also turned
into was you're going out moreand more and more and more, and
that was your coping mechanism.
And that's exactly what I was doing.
And I remember it just hit me likea, like a 10 ton rock basically,
that this is what I'm doing.
And actually there's nogetting me back at that point.
So I have to therefore take areally conscious look at things
(24:27):
and say, you've gotta stop that.
So, yeah.
So it was a, it was, it waspivotal in what I was doing.
I think it was probablypivotal for Jen and me as well.
Yeah.
And we, I think every session wewere going through and we were trying
to visualize, right, what did Iwant the company to look like and
who are those key people within it?
And then it seemed to be, itwas, it was like a continual.
(24:48):
Thing with us.
I think there was always some,something had gone wrong.
Um, and it at that point, 'causeit was happening so frequently,
we were kinda like, how do weget some positives outta this?
And that, that was areal challenge actually.
Um, because you becomevery low in yourself.
Um, but yeah, we talked things through,I remember one session we did where we
(25:09):
were visualising, you bought a a box ofbasically figures and characters, and we
were basically designing the team aroundthese characters, and I had to go through
and say, right, well why is this, but whydid you use that person to represent you?
And it was phenomenal.
Julie (25:24):
Mm.
Pete (25:25):
And I remember that was quite a pivotal moment for me because we could
define a team, but I could also see italso highlighted a few other things,
which was the business wasn't goingin the direction I wanted it to go in.
I'd taken too much of a step back.
Julie (25:38):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (25:39):
And I wasn't accepting the standard I wanted in the business.
I was accepting that people weredoing things almost to their own
accord and not quite how I wouldaccept them or expect them to do it.
And there was, it was just a challenge.
But confronting that challengewas quite difficult at that time.
'cause I probably wasn'tin the right mindset.
(26:00):
So your expertise was very much around.
Almost counseling me and helpingme through things as well as trying
to sort out the business as well.
Julie (26:10):
Yeah, it was interesting 'cause I remember when, when we talked about what
you wanted to achieve from the coaching,there was obviously we were talking
about business growth and developing thebusiness, but there was also very much.
Your own personal development at theheart of this, and we, we kind of
moved between those two topics a lot,but we probably spent more time on,
(26:34):
on you and the personal development.
And, and as a coach, this journey ofworking with you was very significant.
It felt like.
I really wanted to support you.
I mean, I always feel like that withall my clients, but I, I felt a real
sense of responsibility that thiswas such a pivotal time for you.
(26:58):
And as coaches, we are required to havesomething called professional coaching
supervision, which is where we either.
Take our coaching scenarios andclients in an anonymised way.
Yeah.
We, we talk to our peers orpeople with more experience and
this helps us to maintain ourethical and professional practice.
(27:18):
And I did take our work a coupleof times to different supervision
groups because I felt that sense ofresponsibility and, and with that came.
Quite a lot of, um, emotionalwork on my part too, I think.
Right.
Which I, it doesn't always happen.
(27:41):
I mean, I think I tend to take on people'sstuff a little bit and emotions, so
some coaches are, are kind of betterat probably water off a duck's back.
But that's, I, I think because it isthe nature of the working relationships
that I have with my clients.
Maybe it's a bit different for me,but I remember wanting a bit of
(28:03):
support so that I could support you.
Yeah, because I think we probably.
Um, went up to the, theboundaries of counseling.
Sometimes I don't think wegot into that space, which was
really important that we didn't.
Pete (28:17):
Yeah, definitely.
Julie (28:18):
That's not what coaching is about, but I think we, we
were definitely kind of at times,
Pete (28:23):
oh, we were on the fringes of things and I don't think because of
the visualisation part of it and thegoing back to where certain things
were driven from, and I think thatthat's something I'd never done.
Because one of the things thatcame outta Myers-Briggs was this
perfectionist kind of thing.
Where's that come from?
And actually, that's quite adifficult thing to go through
and nothing I'd ever done before.
(28:43):
So whoever had bought thatoutta me was probably gonna
need, um, some help as well.
Julie (28:49):
And I'm just thinking about, um, there's a neurolinguistic programming
technique called backtracking beliefs,which I think we used, which is where
you, you are backtracking, you're goingback in your mind to at what point a
belief started, not with a desire todelve into that in a way that would
(29:10):
be therapeutic and counseling, but inorder for you to look at that belief.
Uh, and, and see what youthought before you believed that?
Yeah.
Because sometimes we develop abelief at a a point in our lives,
which we then take with us.
And actually it might not be true atall, and it might not be serving us
Pete (29:30):
Yeah.
Julie (29:30):
Very well.
So, but, but that workis quite challenging.
Pete (29:35):
It's challenging.
It's something you don'tdo in your day to day life.
And, and I think it, it wasvitally important for me.
It was, for me personally, it was soimportant to get to that point because
I think it was probably somethingthat was holding me back, not only in
day-to-day life, but it was holdingme back, certainly in business.
So, yeah, so I think that the discussionswe had, yeah, they were, they were very
(29:56):
meaningful, but they were also reallyimportant at that point in my life to
overcome perhaps some of the fears thatwere holding, holding me back, but also.
Yeah.
To, to start to challenge things a bitdifferently, um, and turn things around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie (30:11):
I'm just thinking with a lighter moment in mind.
Yeah.
There was a very funny, I
Pete (30:17):
know where this is going.
Julie (30:20):
So we used to meet at the Malmasion in Oxford, which I have to say they
were very generous in, uh, in allowingus to kind of meet in a restaurant
and, and I guess the first thing Iremember is we were looking at a kind
of exercise of thinking about where youwanted to take the business and because
the, all the breakfast customers hademptied out, the restaurant was empty.
(30:41):
Yeah.
We would often use, they have, theyhave a small private dining room in the
Malmaison, just off the main restaurantand there's a, this kind of circular
room obviously had been part of the, theprison and there was this kind of circular
table and we would sit there and veryquiet because the walls were very thick
(31:02):
and then high up on the wall there wastiny window with some metal barriers.
So we had probably spent aboutan hour in there at that point.
Probably had a bit longer and we got upto leave and I went to open the door.
And was it that it came off in my hand or?
Pete (31:24):
It was either
or?
Just what?
I don't think the handle was there.
Julie (31:27):
Yeah, that's right.
Pete (31:28):
There just was no handle.
Julie (31:29):
Yeah.
Pete (31:29):
Um,
Julie (31:30):
and I think at first we just thought it was quite funny.
Pete (31:33):
Yeah.
Julie (31:34):
And then we remember that nobody
Pete (31:35):
Panic set in.
Julie (31:35):
Nobody was actually in the restaurant.
Pete (31:38):
Yeah.
Julie (31:38):
So I think we did a little bit banging on the door, but there
was a real tangible sense of panic.
But I wanted to remain,sorry, remain professional.
I was just trying to think.
How are we gonna get out of here?
Because the minute started going by.
Yeah.
I thought, well, what if
Pete (31:56):
nobody could hear us at that point?
And there's no win becauseit's an old prison.
There's no windows or anything,so nobody could even see
into the room, I don't think.
Julie (32:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But by, some absolute miracle.
You had the exact toolswe needed in your backpack
Pete (32:09):
I think that's called being a, uh, an outdoor person at that time,
probably a scout or a cub leader and.
Yeah, so out came the trustyleatherman and uh, lo and behold,
it's the most useful it's ever been.
'cause we managed to, I think,basically clamp onto the little
turny thing in the door andactually managed to get out there.
(32:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's something I do recall toquite a few people actually.
Whenever the leatherman comes out, I havea little wry smile on my face because it's
been used to actually escape something.
So if anybody ever needs to escapeprison keep a leatherman on you.
Julie (32:43):
Yeah, so, so that is definitely a very strong memory of our work together,
and I wonder what it symbolises.
Pete (32:51):
Yeah, I think it's a, yeah, perhaps being equipped for what you've got hand
in hand or ahead of you perhaps, then.
Julie (32:56):
Yeah.
And being resourceful.
Pete (32:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Julie (33:02):
Are you feeling stuck and need some help moving forwards at lighting fires?
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To ignite their full leadership potential.
Whether you're a business owneror leading in an organisation,
we can work together to create aprogram tailored to your priorities.
(33:23):
Throughout our coaching together, I seemy clients' confidence and capabilities
grow as they gain a greater understandingof how they work, learn to make quicker
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Through the challenges andthe breakthroughs, you'll
have me by your side.
(33:43):
Get in touch on LinkedIn or emailme julie@lightingfires.co uk.
So I'm just thinkingabout our coaching work.
Are there other, any other moments?
Of change or something shifted for you?
Pete (34:02):
I've got clarity of thought on certain things in terms of the direction
of the business, but also perhaps goingrather than continually pushing and
pushing and pushing, which I have atendency to do, I think because I set my
own standards fairly high, but I have abar that can never be obtained, but I kept
on without realising it's setting a bar.
(34:23):
We'd achieve it.
We would never celebrate it.
We would never look back on it.
And it was reflecting on thenegatives a lot of the time, but
not allowing the team to celebrate.
Julie (34:31):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (34:32):
Um, and now we actually plan things.
We plan things to celebrate.
And that was pretty pivotal for me becauseit wasn't something that I'd done, and I
think probably because I was scared thatif I hadn't achieved everything, then I'd
failed, and you, I lived in this failure.
So that was one of my massive takeawaysfrom everything was living more present.
(34:58):
Don't just continue.
Look for the next thing.
Don't move the bar.
Don't continually, like ifyou've got a goal that you're
going for, well hit the goal.
You don't need to go massively beyondit, or you've set the goal because
that's what you want to achieve.
You definitely achieve beyond up above it.
So that was a big turning point for me.
(35:18):
But also I think going back to whyI set the business up, I believe
in kind of being fair with people.
It's something that I was raisedwith as a Quaker that people
should have opportunity and thereshould be an emphasis on fairness.
But also I think I'd also forgottenthat I was the director of the company
(35:39):
and actually I have like, I haveto firstly stand up and be counted.
But secondly, I, I'm allowed an opinion.
Julie (35:46):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (35:47):
And I've been battered down at that point that my opinion virtually didn't
count, and I was almost accepting that.
So, yeah.
So it was really opened my eyes to thosethings that actually yeah, don't, I
suppose, go away from your own valuesand beliefs and all those things,
but you also have to have, you'regonna have difficult conversations.
You're gonna have these other, otherelements within work life where
(36:08):
things might not work out, but,don't let it just like completely
dictate where you're going.
Um, so yeah, so it, it got me outtasome major holes and just gave
me a better clarity of thought.
Actually you can have some fun.
You still gotta do your work, but actuallyyou kind of, you can still get that done
and you don't mind putting the extraeffort in because it, it was fun and
(36:29):
I think I'd lost that through Covid.
Julie (36:30):
Oh my gosh.
And fun is so important at work.
I know people cringe a bit when wetalk about having fun at work, but I
genuinely, I look back at my career.
And some of the funniest moments, themost enjoyable moments have been with work
colleagues in all sorts of situations.
Yeah.
Often because you're with people whoyou might not pick to be your friends,
(36:52):
but you get to know really differentdiverse personalities and get thrown
into situations you don't expect.
Pete (36:59):
Yeah.
And I think they all have a, a reallyinsightful opinion as well, and things
that you might not hear otherwise.
And even this week, we've hada new lady starting our team.
And it's the first time in probably fouryears that I've spent a week with a brand
new person coming out as a graduate.
Gone into the field with them.
(37:20):
We've surveyed some sites.
We've spent way too much time on thesesites, but it's been the best week
because actually I've been learningloads, but she's also been kind of like
asking so many questions and I'm, youforget actually, that's what you studied.
And actually that's why he got into it.
I didn't get into it tomanage tons of people.
I got into it because I, I likelooking at nature and actually
(37:42):
understanding that, and that'swhere the level of expertise is.
Yeah.
So it kind of, it allcomes around full circle.
I think just having it goes back tothe team and actually having that right
team around you that you can actuallysay, I can trust you to do that.
We can go in this direction.
We're all on the same bus together withoutpeople pulling in other directions.
And that, that's vital.
Julie (38:01):
Yeah.
I mean having the right people around youand sometimes that does require really
difficult decisions and situations to, toget you to that point, but it then means
that you can relax and you know, you'vegot people who are expert and you trust.
Yeah,
Pete (38:18):
and I think actually it showed this last week, so I've been away
for a week and it was the first timeI've gone on holiday in 15 years.
But I remember leaving theoffice on the friday evening and
thinking, actually, I can go away.
These guys have got it.
There's not gonna be a drama,there's not gonna be any issues.
Julie (38:39):
Well, that had come up in our coaching, hadn't it?
I remember talking about how youfelt like you couldn't go away
and not take your laptop with you.
'cause things often didcrop up or go a bit wrong.
So this is fantastic that you are
Pete (38:52):
Oh, it's, it's great.
Yeah.
And yeah, those little days when you areon holiday with a family and I remember
like my lad Herbie having a bit of a go atme, sat on a chair lift and I'm emailing
people and he's not present in the moment.
You are like 3000 meters or 3000feet in the air on the top of a
mountain looking over the worldand you're looking at your phone.
(39:13):
And actually it goes back tobeing present in that moment,
um, which was really important.
Julie (39:21):
Okay, so at this point in the interview.
I am going to ask you to pick arandom question out of my, bowl.
Out
Pete (39:31):
the bowl.
Okay.
Let's go that one.
Julie (39:33):
Let see.
See what you come up with.
Pete (39:37):
Oh, okay.
So, uh, biggest success and what ifyou break it down, contributed to this.
That's quite a challenging one becauseyou can look at it in different ways.
Like the biggest success probablyhas to be having a family.
Julie (39:49):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (39:50):
That's a fairly big success, but I suppose that's a
fairly standard, standard thing.
Biggest individual success.
Is probably turning my life aroundfrom the age of 18, and it took
20 years almost to realise it.
So nearly leaving university,all those kind of things.
The reason why it was a 20 year successis because I hadn't realised that how much
(40:13):
impact that how in my life and to put astop on it to say I've done something.
Um, so yeah, to do that Ironman race,but that was the culmination of training,
but also the mental, the mental strengthto say, look, I'm gonna go and do this.
And it, I suppose it goes back to thatwhole thing of like, living life extremes.
(40:36):
So yes, those, those challenges.
So the successes really kind of.
Reflecting on why you did it.
So yeah, so I think that was probablyprobably the biggest success.
Julie (40:49):
That sounds like an incredible success.
What would your advice be to somebodywho's in a similar situation?
Pete (40:56):
Speak to people, speak to the right people.
I think it's one of these things youkind of surround yourself with people,
like with friends and close people.
Don't be scared to speak out about it.
It's interesting that I wasn't scaredto speak out about miscarriage.
I'm not bothered about speakingto anybody about being overweight
or drinking too much or goinginto like these crazy sports, and
(41:20):
I'll happily help people do that.
But the one thing I'd never spokeout about was mental health.
Because I'd never probablywanted to address it.
Never really took, takena deep look at myself.
So having people around you, and it'ssomething I've discussed within our
industry as well, is actually there'sa lot of sole traders out there who
(41:40):
will be under a lot of pressure.
Particularly like right now, likecost of living goes up, all these
different things go up, and actuallyperhaps people aren't directors, they
haven't got those thing, the peoplearound them to be able to speak to.
So actually, why didn't you havea group just where it's kind of,
yeah, everything stays in that room.
Julie (41:58):
Yeah.
Pete (41:58):
And actually, but you can have a chat about it because once you've spoken
to one person about it, you generally findthat other people have been through it.
And I've certainly found thatparticularly in the last 12 or 18 months.
Julie (42:09):
It's amazing, isn't it?
Once you pluck up the courage to tellone person what you're going through.
So often they say, ohyeah, that happened to me.
Yeah.
Well, I experienced that or thathappened to somebody really close to me.
And yeah, I mean, that happenedto me really recently where I was
really shy to tell people aboutsomething that I was going through
(42:33):
and, and then I just discoveredthat nearly everybody I spoke to had
been through exactly the same thing.
I was like, oh, okay.
But there's still so many taboos out therethat we need to keep breaking, don't we?
Pete (42:46):
Yeah.
And I think it helps everybodyaround you as well, if they see that.
There isn't just like aface that just never breaks.
So yeah, so I think it'squite a bit of vulnerability.
Julie (42:55):
I think being able to role model vulnerability is, is really important.
I agree.
I was just reflecting before westarted our conversation today on at
one point in the coaching, I asked.
What could have been betterin terms of coaching?
And I think one of the things youmentioned was that perhaps I could have
held you to account a bit more often.
(43:16):
So yeah, I was just curious.
Pete (43:17):
Yeah, the account, yeah, it's an interesting.
Accountability is an interesting one.
I'm somebody who can get sidetrackedfairly easily on things, even as
you found on having this chat today.
Um, and perhaps I didn't realisethat at the time, but I think
the accountability to say, right,okay, you haven't done something.
Why haven't you done it?
Is I find quite a strong thing for me,and that probably comes from sporting.
Julie (43:41):
Mm-hmm.
Pete (43:41):
Kind of like coaching, like whether it be rugby coaching and things.
But it was always immediate.
And particularly when we were talkingabout perhaps some of those subjects I
didn't want to talk about all the time.
That was it.
Yeah.
It was, I think the accountabilityis vital for some people
Julie (43:55):
I think.
I think it is.
And I think I remember lookingback, thinking sometimes he
hasn't, he hasn't done some of thethings he said he was gonna do.
Right.
But also often.
Other really pressing things werecoming up and coming up into the
conversation and maybe I allowedmyself to be distracted a little bit.
Pete (44:13):
Yeah.
I dunno.
If you ask my team where do Ido everything a hundred, no.
And it is, it is a continualthing that comes up in my life.
Is it?
I think Lou actually put it to mereally well the other day she said.
You get to 80 or 90% there, Pete, butdon't quite get that a hundred percent.
And I was like, yeah, you're right.
(44:34):
Yeah.
That's where you need peoplearound you to kind of help you.
Julie (44:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's a goodlearning for me is, is to push
a little bit more sometimes.
I think that would be useful.
So Pete, thank you.
I've.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this.
I think we've been aroundthe houses on many topics.
Pete (44:51):
Yeah.
Julie (44:52):
We have, um, all really interesting and really relevant
to leaders and business owners.
So, um, perhaps I could ask thatyou might come back another time
and we could do a coaching session.
Pete (45:04):
Yeah, definitely.
I'd love to do that and thank youfor all that you've, like very
often in our coaching sessions youwere ears and you were a set of.
Like just advisory person tome and really helped me kind of
just unpick and unravel things.
And I think that's sometimes what businessleaders need is just somebody who they
(45:26):
can turn to and like even now we havetelephone conversations and things
like that and it's, I come away fromthem just thinking I've learned, I've
learned a lot, but also somebody's justthere who's kind of listened and I think
that's sometimes we feel very alone.
And actually that's quite a lonely place.
So, yeah.
And you've, it's been wonderful.
Um, yeah, so thank you foreverything you've done for me.
Julie (45:49):
It's a pleasure.
Thank you very much.
As I reflect back on the interviewwith Pete, I'm really struck by
the depth of the coaching work andthe coaching relationship here.
It was a really deeply trustingrelationship, which I really valued.
(46:10):
But not all coaching work islike that, and that's fine.
My top tips for this episode, the firstis take a look at your sense of purpose.
Ask yourself what reallyconnects you to your passion
in your role or your business.
Pete talked about revisiting ChristchurchPark in Ipswich in east of England.
(46:32):
He saw all the old trees from hischildhood and rediscovered his
emotional connection to nature.
This moved him onto the nextsuccessful phase for his business.
Many of you'll be familiar withthe work of Simon Sinek, either
through his TED Talks or books,including Finding Your Why.
I can highly recommend this forclarifying your own purpose, but
(46:55):
also that of your team or your brand.
My second top tip is try mappingout a history of your life
and business achievements.
Focus on the highs.
Noticing what has been inspiringfor you over the years and what
do the highs have in common?
I recently revisited this exercise formyself and notice that I need to be
(47:17):
learning and around inspiring peopleat the moments when I achieve the most.
If you'd like to find out how wecould work together, you can visit
my website, www.lighting fires.co.uk
email me at julie@lightingfires.co.ukor contact me on LinkedIn.
(47:40):
Julie Williams, MSC.
If you found this podcast helpful,please leave a five star rating
so others just like you can findme and benefit from these stories.
Thank you for listening tothe Lighting Fires podcast.
I'll be back soon with moreconversations with my wonderful clients
(48:01):
reflecting on their coaching journeys.
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