June 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of The Lighting Fires Podcast, Executive Coach Julie Williams talks with Lorraine Briffitt, CEO of Connect Reading, about what it really takes to lead with authenticity in today’s world.
Lorraine opens up about her journey through imposter syndrome, burnout, and leading complex organisational change. She shares the emotional toll of a restructure that didn’t go to plan, and how coaching helped her separate her self-worth from her job title, rebuild confidence, and reconnect with her core values.
Together, Lorraine and Julie explore the power of executive coaching in helping leaders navigate self-doubt, manage team dynamics, and make space for more reflective, compassionate leadership.
Key Topics in This Episode:
-
How to manage imposter syndrome as a senior leader
-
The emotional impact of tying identity to your job role
-
Navigating leadership during change, challenge and uncertainty
-
Burnout, boundaries, and post-pandemic leadership lessons
-
Using coaching to reconnect with purpose, values, and confidence
-
Building resilience through reflection and honest conversations
Julie’s Coaching Tips:
-
Notice your thoughts – Write down moments of self-doubt and compare them to real, tangible achievements.
-
Talk it out – You're not alone. Trusted conversations can shift your mindset.
-
Reconnect with your values – Reflect on what truly matters to you now, not just what used to drive you.
-
Use tools for clarity – See Brené Brown’s values exercise below.
Recommended Resources:
Connect with Julie:
-
Website: www.lightingfires.co.uk
-
Email: julie@lightingfires.co.uk
-
LinkedIn: Julie Williams MSc
Enjoyed this episode? Please leave a 5 star rating to help more people find these honest and inspiring leadership conversations.
Artwork by Ian Guppy
Music by Penguin Music via Pixabay
Produced by Perri Hurley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
At that point, I think the oddsense of the world was spinning
quickly, but so much of it wason pause because of lockdowns.
Um, and my office, which I'm sure you'llask about later, was at that point based
in our bathroom because it was the onlyplace that I could lock myself away from
(00:25):
my 2-year-old and my 4-year-old, withoutbeing interrupted and just sitting
in this odd bubble of trying to anglecameras for online meetings away from
the toilet, the shower, and the sink.
Julie (00:38):
Um, I did get some flashes at the toilet.
Lorraine (00:42):
You did?
I would angle it round was like, justto be clear, so anyone listening,
I wasn't using it at the time.
Just to make that very clear.
Julie (00:51):
Welcome to the Lighting Fires podcast.
My name is Julie Williams and I'm a coach.
I have a master's in coachingand behavioral change.
Over 10 years of running my own coachingpractice and 15 years in marketing
leadership roles, including Accenture,where I've worked with Microsoft.
In my work, I gain the benefitof walking with people through
(01:13):
their lives for a short time.
So on this podcast, you'll getto hear from people experiencing
key moments of change in theirbusiness and personal lives.
We'll hear what lit their fires and thetechniques that created significant shift.
I hope you find their story inspiring.
(01:33):
In this episode, I talk to LorraineBriffitt, chief Executive of Connect
reading, a charity that makes the townof Redding better for everyone, by
bringing together businesses, charities,and other organisations to benefit the
local community economy and environment.
In this episode, Lorraine and I discussthe importance of defining your values
(01:56):
as a leader, the topic of impostersyndrome, and the power of knowing
how to handle difficult conversations.
I must warn you, there is somestrong language in this episode.
So today I would like towelcome Lorraine Briffitt.
(02:20):
Lorraine, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Lorraine (02:22):
I'm a woman.
I'm a mother.
I'm a chief exec of a charity.
I'm a trustee.
I'm a facetious human, hugelyso, and a work in progress.
And I suppose my biggest passionsare positive change, whether it's
in me, in my circumstances, ormost of all around me in society.
Julie (02:40):
Hmm.
Thank you.
And we first met as I was one ofthe co-founders of Coaching Reading.
I still am.
And I got involved with offeringpro bono coaching to charity and
community leaders in the reading area.
And you had just taken over as Chiefexec of Connect Reading, I think.
Lorraine (03:04):
Yes.
My predecessor spoke veryhighly of the opportunities.
I think she'd met with you andDebs in maybe the November, and
then she sat down in in December,and you were our first ever.
And as it turned out, due to thegigantic lockdown that was coming
around the corner, we didn't knowabout our February networking in 2020.
Julie (03:22):
Yes, I remember it well.
Suddenly everything changedvery soon after that.
So we went on to do somecoaching work together during the
lockdown, and I thought perhapswe could talk about that today.
And I wonder if you could start bytelling us maybe a little bit about
your backstory prior to becomingthe chief Executive Connect Reading.
Lorraine (03:48):
I suppose I spent most of my professional life working in the charity
sector, a little bit in public sector,dabbling in the NHS and then running
away due to the fact that they wouldname systems, PMS, a computer system.
I mean, really, honestly, itreally did have that sort of
temperament to it, to be honest.
Um, a little bit of dabblingin the private sector as
(04:08):
well after I left university.
But I just never really found the rightniche until I kind of settled into spaces
that had a sort of nonprofit drive andbefore I came to Connect Reading, I was
doing a lot of part-time stuff as well asbeing a parent and navigating a recently
diagnosed long-term immuno illness.
(04:29):
And so I was a funeral celebrant.
I was a consultant, a mom.
Uh, trustee, I think on two orthree things and about three
other steering groups as well.
So yeah, I had loads of time,uh, and thought i'd take on a
three day a week chief exec job.
Julie (04:46):
Okay, so there's a lot going on in
Lorraine (04:49):
always.
Julie (04:50):
We could unpack all of that.
Lorraine (04:52):
Let's not,
Julie (04:52):
but let's not.
So fast forward to connect wedding.
And you had taken on a big role withbig challenges plus then suddenly
we had the Lockdowns to contendwith and also the context of the
Black Lives Matter campaigns thatwere were happening at that time.
(05:17):
So why did you come to coaching?
Lorraine (05:19):
I had been very lucky to actually benefit from some pro bono
coaching a couple of times duringmy first ever chief exec position
between 2013 and 2016, and it was very.
I would say it was foundational interms of finding myself as a leader.
I had led many other things up, up tothat point on a slightly smaller scale.
And then the job that I took on in2013 was leading a, a charity of six
(05:43):
projects with kind of 30 staff, andthat was quite a jump from managing
one project within that same charity.
And I think navigating my ownunderstanding of myself as a leader,
as a person within that context, andjust the the strange dance that you
do when you go from leading somethingwithin the context of someone else's
(06:05):
organisation in comparison to then havingto lead the whole thing and having those
same people and the same interactions,but they come out in a different way
due to a different power dynamic.
And so when I took on the ConnectReading role, there were only
two of us on the staff teams.
Quality, not quantity, and obviouslywith the challenges of lockdown when
(06:26):
you've just taken over a networkingbased organisation and also sort of
push through significant changes likemoving offices and rebranding all within
three months on, three days a week.
To say that I've felt slightlyoverwhelmed is probably an understatement.
And having heard you speak at ournetworking and you were sort of
talking about offering free bonocoaching, it felt like a, a very a
(06:50):
very necessary and timely connection.
Julie (06:53):
Mm mm
And I remember our mutual friend, uh,Debs Jeffries, said to me one day, I've
got to introduce you to Lorraine, you twoare going to get on like house on fire,
and I think you could really support eachother as well, which is very much true.
So let's think back to some of thecoaching topics then that we got into.
(07:17):
What would you say was, wasone of the main things that
we were tackling back then?
Lorraine (07:24):
I probably have to say imposter syndrome, which is
irritating 'cause I wish it wasn't.
That is a very frequent awarenessthat I have, I think of myself.
Julie (07:34):
Mm-hmm.
Lorraine (07:34):
Probably throughout my whole life actually.
And especially when you faceleadership and responsibility to
see that as something that you.
Uh, you hold as a privilege, but you alsounderstand that you're there, not just
because there was nobody else to do it,and holding those two things in tandem.
Julie (07:52):
,,,Hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
And can you remember how the impostersyndrome showed up or the thinking
patterns that were there for you or theimpact that it was having on your job.
Lorraine (08:09):
If I start on the thinking patterns, just being reminded of some
of the things I was saying to myselfalmost brings up that same level of kind
of that sort of jarring sense inside.
I apparently was saying of myself thatat some point everybody will realise
that I've done absolutely nothing.
Um, which.
I think if I'm honest now, I'm like,what a ridiculous thing to say because
(08:31):
I'm not somebody who sits still forvery long and I'm always seeking
to do my best and of go beyond.
Julie (08:36):
And I should make it clear that when you talked at the time about feeling
like you weren't achieving anything.
I didn't burst out laughing then.
It's in hindsight thatI, I completely agree.
It seems a ridiculous statementconsidering how much you
do achieve all the time.
Lorraine (08:56):
So at that point.
I think the odd sense of the worldwas spinning quickly, but so much of
it was on pause because of lockdowns.
Um, and my office, which I'm sure you'llask about later, was at that point based
in our bathroom because it was the onlyplace that I could lock myself away from
(09:17):
my 2-year-old or my 4-year-old withoutbeing interrupted and just sitting
in this odd bubble of trying to anglecameras for online meetings away from
the toilet, the shower and the sink.
Julie (09:30):
Um, I did get some flashes at the toilet.
Lorraine (09:34):
You did?
I would angle it round was like,just to be clear to anyone listening,
I wasn't using it at the time.
Um, just to make that very clear.
So I think the, the oddcontext I found myself in.
But then the fact that we weresupporting so many charities who were
just flat out in supporting people insignificant crisis on the frontline.
(09:54):
And in my previous jobs in the nonprofitsector, it has always been frontline.
Julie (09:58):
Hmm.
Lorraine (09:59):
And so normally I'd be out volunteering in the Red Light District
to support women outta prostitution,trafficking, or supporting sort of food
bank stuff or, um, making sure that peoplewere safe or supporting young people on
the edge of sort of mental health crises.
And this felt very odd to be in yourbathroom, sitting there, hearing these
stories of things happening on thefrontline, and then just feeling a bit
(10:21):
powerless about making a positive impactand knowing that the network was there to
support these people, but also who, whowere delivering the frontline services,
but not really knowing how to do thatbecause you couldn't sort of reach them,
get things to them and things like that.
So that was a very odd feeling of,um, feeling a bit removed, I think.
Julie (10:41):
Yeah.
So what was useful then in the coaching?
What helped to create some shiftsaround the imposter syndrome
or outside of the coaching?
Lorraine (10:52):
Well, I think coaching, at its best, it supports the ecosystem of a
person's awareness that they need to havesome sort of change or shift go on within
themselves to see that change outsideof themselves in the context they're in.
And it was a lifeline, I think, tohave you as a mirror or reflection
back of the things I was seeing inmyself that perhaps were not true
(11:15):
reality, but also knowing that therewas someone who was safe to say that to.
'cause sometimes you could have said,I could've said that, and you could've
laughed and you didn't, you listened.
And I think hearing somebody else reflectback what you've said can sometimes
either highlight the absurdity of whatyou say about yourself or just allow some
grace to notice the disparity betweenyour internal voice and what happens on
(11:41):
the interior of our own experience, andthen what happens in the context of that,
in terms of the exterior experience.
Julie (11:46):
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I think I completely agree.
I'm just reflecting back on aconversation I had with a counselor
that I occasionally visit recently and,and I said something out loud to him,
but I don't think I've ever said toanybody and he could have laughed 'cause
(12:07):
I think it would've been fair enough.
But actually he just listened and heplayed it back to me and he enabled me
just to almost like it was holding thisthought in our hands and just looking at
it from different angles or perspectives.
And it really created a very significantshift in a very short period of time.
Lorraine (12:28):
Mm.
Julie (12:29):
So I think it is often just having that other person that you trust
to hold something and to, to have alook at it together is very helpful.
So I remember that we worked on youcreating a mantra or something that
you could say to yourself to reinforcethe kind, the self-belief, and, and to
(12:55):
help you with the imposter syndrome.
And in the world of coaching,this is known as an anchor.
And so what we do is create, um, it couldbe a metaphor or it could be an image.
When I say image, an image in yourmind, in your imagination, or it could
be a physical image that you draw or astatement that you can repeat on a regular
(13:19):
basis, which just helps to lay down akind of new neural pathway in the brain,
which creates a kind of a new thinkingpattern that you can go to much more
swiftly when you need to call upon it.
Can you remember what your statement was?
Lorraine (13:36):
I'm not gonna say yes because you actually told me.
'cause you read the notes and I'm notgonna pretend I have that excellent
memory about myself or that I have infact carried on using it probably beyond
the first year of very helpful use.
Uh, it was, people don't have to likeme, I just have to be kind and honest.
Um, and.
I still find it quite funny evenjust reading it now, um, because
(13:58):
I think I have moved past thatdesperate sense of everything I
do needs to be approved by people.
Perhaps something to sometimes too muchso, but I think that that dedication to
kindness and to honesty has been sortof one of my core values going through
(14:19):
and having recently actually come outof some conversations with a friend
who was supporting me through a verydifficult time in the charity the last
of three months, she signposted me toBrene Brown's sort of values and how
to sort of almost mind through how,how your top three or top two would be.
And I just found that offensive.
So I would have to pick just two things.
Um, but one of them was authenticity,which obviously resonates with honesty.
(14:43):
And the other one was kindness.
And so I think.
That was a pivotal moment of mining out abit of who am I and why is that important?
And if people don't like it, that's okay.
I'm still me and I'm validto be me in those spaces.
Yeah.
Julie (14:59):
And um, I hope you don't mind me saying so with an anchor, something
like this, it's important to repeat thisthought regularly and it can be very
useful to connect it to something thatyou will repeatedly do during the day.
So some clients might link itto brushing their teeth, for
(15:22):
example, or pulling the kettle on.
Lorraine (15:24):
What you're saying is normal people who didn't have their office in
a bathroom might have connected it toperhaps more average practices, but no.
Julie (15:36):
What did you connect it to?
Lorraine (15:38):
Well, having been able to see, said bathroom all the time.
Whenever I was in my work context, Ithink that the thing I would do quite
regularly, I'm glad to report, was goingto the toilet and so I had to think
chalk pens and so I just wrote on theshower wall next to where I went to the
loo, which my husband found quite funny.
Julie (16:00):
And I think whatever works right, if, if that's what, sure.
Lorraine (16:03):
Generally people don't get outed about these practices or you know, in a
larger, more public space, but sure, yeah.
I think anyone who does know me hasprobably come to expect this behavior
Julie (16:14):
And, and my recollection of some of the conversations about imposter
syndrome was that you felt that ifyou could move past it, you could
really free up so much else and youcould kind of take care of yourself.
So that would, that was very muchlinked to leadership and resilience
and your energy levels as well.
And that, you know, if you could be kindto yourself, then you could perhaps be
(16:39):
more comfortable, you can relax more.
Does, does any of that sound familiar?
Lorraine (16:45):
Yeah.
I think the, the resilience thing foranybody during, during lockdowns was a
problem, whether you are continuing towork in an ordinary pattern if someone's
in frontline Blue Light Services orbusinesses that didn't necessarily
see a change in their work pattern.
Still that sense of nationalanxiety around how long will
(17:10):
this go on, what will happen?
And the, the strange dance in and outof lockdowns resilience was a, was a
frequently discussed desire or topic, Isuppose in, in a lot of leadership spaces.
I think for me, holding onto thatmantra, um, and the anchor of that.
It was how to be kind and honestwith myself as much as with others.
(17:34):
Um, and that has continued to be alearning curve for me, I would say in
terms of my autoimmune condition, whichis Myasthenia Gravis, managing energy,
managing brain space, learning more aboutmy own patterns of thought and desire
to fix things and being on the go a lot.
(17:58):
I think trying to find a better rhythm,if that was, that was the start of,
of sort of changes over the last fouryears and I think that has helped,
but it, I'm still a work in progress.
Julie (18:08):
Mm-hmm.
Are you feeling stuck and need somehelp moving forwards at lighting fires?
I work with business leaders, futureleaders, and their teams to ignite
their full leadership potential.
Whether you're a business owneror leading in an organisation,
(18:31):
we can work together to create aprogram tailored to your priorities.
Throughout our coaching together,I see my clients' confidence and
capabilities grow as they gain a greaterunderstanding of how they work, learn
to make quicker decisions and developa vision for their role and a plan on
how to get there through the challengesand the breakthroughs, you'll have me
(18:53):
by your side . Get in touch on LinkedInor email me julie@lightingfires.co.uk
So if somebody else is listening tothis and they're experiencing imposter
syndrome, what would you say to them?
Lorraine (19:14):
Talk to somebody.
Don't be embarrassed.
You're not alone.
I think there's a tendency forwomen to feel this more than men.
Unfortunately, we exist still within manypatriarchal constructs, and whilst it
can be perhaps more noticeable to namethe silencing of female voices in public
(19:35):
spaces actually, it has a parallel effectof silencing our voices to ourselves.
Um, and that is very, very significantlyseen, I think, and felt in terms
of the mental and physical and howthose two things are deeply linked
and recognising how to listen, notjust to our internal voices mentally,
but to listen to our bodies and howthose two things are intrinsically
(19:57):
linked, and we cannot escape that.
And again, I think that was part of myongoing journey, having recognised what
was happening in my head to recognisewhat's happening in my body and not assume
that I'm not supposed to be in a place.
Because when you are in a place inyour body, you occupy space in that.
And if you continually feelthat you shouldn't be there.
You shrink yourself and you sort ofessentially oppress yourself even
(20:20):
if the situation is oppressive.
And so that's just another layerthat you have to break through.
So talk to others about it and don't layermore shame on yourself for feeling about
it or, yeah, or or sort of blaming, Ithink because it is a sad truth for many
women and also for men, I think, who findthemselves in leadership positions or
(20:41):
places of responsibility where they feellike the odd one out for whatever reason.
Julie (20:46):
Mm mm That's really insightful.
Thank you.
Sharing that.
Thinking back to the coaching, were thereother topics that you've reflected on?
That might be interesting to talk about?
Lorraine (21:01):
I think having supported a number of people to access the
coaching that you've offered throughCoaching Reading, uh, a lot of the time
they start talking about a difficultconversation that they know they
probably need to have at some point.
Julie (21:15):
Mm-hmm.
Lorraine (21:15):
And uh, for me at that point, there were some pretty
difficult relationships I was facing.
Some of them were.
Organisational in terms of what Ihad inherited as an organisation, uh,
and identifying how that sat perhapsadjacent to or in competition with other
organisations and trying to unpick thatand then noticing that alongside that
(21:37):
there were also personality clashes isprobably too strong a word, but perhaps
at the time I think I would've saidclashes with individuals for from me to
them, and having not really anticipatedthat that would be the case because I'd
known them before I took the role on . Sobeing able to identify how to face those
difficult conversations by firstly, notreally constantly holding onto this thing
(22:00):
of everyone has to like me, feelingthat I wanted that to be the case because
I wanted people to like me because Ithought in my head that, my role was me.
And I think that is an ongoingjourney for many people,
especially when they run their ownbusiness, that you are the brand.
And I remember arguing with a personwho redid our website, who's amazing,
but it was all about, you know, itwas, it was the charity, it's not me.
(22:23):
And then being like, no, it's you.
And I was like, grr.
I still don't reallylike it, but there we go.
I think we then struggle with thatwhen people say no to your work
that they are saying no to you.
And that's a strange continuum.
So I think at that point, difficultconversations was one of the biggest
comedy moments in some context.
Um, and also one of the most significantchanges in terms of the coaching impact.
Julie (22:47):
Okay.
I think that's really interesting.
That point about when you run your ownbusiness or whether if you're the face of
an organisation, particularly small one,there's so much of you wrapped up in it.
And I think when I firstset up my coaching business.
I, I probably didn't recognisehow much of it was me in terms
(23:08):
of the brand, and actually thatled to sometimes real exhaustion.
Lorraine (23:15):
Yeah,
Julie (23:16):
because I, I always want to do my best with clients.
I work with, I work hard.
I see myself as, I hate the wordjourney, but it does feel like I'm
walking along a path with them duringthe, the coaching and maybe we're
just together in that moment of time.
(23:39):
And so I think there've been timeswhen my identity has been so wrapped
up in my coaching work that I've, Ihave had to over the last couple of
years, try to, to separate out the two.
And I think it was probably a bitintentional at the beginning to, to,
for it to become part of my identitybecause I was leaving the corporate world
(24:02):
and that was such a shift and I lovedcoaching so much, so passionate about it.
You know, when I first discoveredit, it was like this whole new
amazing world that, um, completelythrilled me and does still thrill me.
But it's, it's not that healthyto be that closely identified with
(24:23):
the work you do, it can definitelylead to some exhaustion at times.
Lorraine (24:27):
Yeah, I think the, there seem to be in discussions around whether
you are what you do or you know, thecompartmentalising, I actually think it's
probably slightly more nuanced than that.
It's not either or.
I think there's no shame inidentifying yourself through
your brand or vice versa or.
You know, pouring yourself intosomething that you're passionate about.
(24:47):
You know, people wouldn't get goodthings done if that didn't happen.
If we just sort ofswitched to flick, nope.
flick the switch.
Switch to flick, do theswitching of the flicks.
You know, if we were able to do that,I think actually the shifts we would
see within ourselves and within thethings we work within and that we
dedicated to wouldn't necessarily moveso much, it wouldn't shift the dial.
However, I think the, the hard part,and actually that was probably more
(25:10):
difficult to do during the, duringthe pandemic, was in a lockdown.
How do you break state between thedoing and the job role and the whoing?
Julie (25:21):
Yeah.
Lorraine (25:22):
Um, and the difference between to do, and to be, was very, very bled.
And sadly, I think that's probably oneof the things we've continued to have
to try and navigate in a hybrid worldthat you bring your work home and your
home to work, which is probably actuallybetter I think, in terms of bringing
your home life and your context to work.
(25:42):
'cause there's more authenticity to that.
But the, the opposite of thatin terms of work home is very
hard to leave that at the door.
Or to have a, a, a regular practice thatallows us to change state between the two.
Julie (25:55):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and that actually came up a lot inthe coaching work that I was doing during
lockdowns was so many people workingfrom home and having no boundaries.
You know, they'd finish work possiblyat their kitchen table and then start
their childcare duties or their cookingor... and no ability to just decompress
(26:17):
or switch off or, or shift roles.
So, yeah, and I do think it continuesto be yeah, a, a challenge for people.
So, coming back to the topic of difficultconversations, what was it that happened
during the coaching sessions thatenabled you to have those, would you say?
(26:38):
I
Lorraine (26:38):
think the, the first one was the, the mantra of this
person doesn't have to like me.
I, I'd love to knowwhether they do or not.
Now.
I would say letting myself off thehook for that kind of, I must have
everybody like what we're doingand like why we are and like what
I am and what it's about, and just,yeah, just stop trying so hard, FFS.
(27:04):
And then secondly, I think being ableto untangle the difference between
organisational clashes, again, being toostrong a word, but, uh, disparities maybe
in terms of trajectory of, of delivery,passion, vision, values, et cetera.
The difference between that and thenthe difference between people and
humans, and how often our organizationsbecome like the person leading them.
(27:27):
And that is part forthe course, it's normal.
It's not a bad thing, but itmeans that you need to own the
difference between those two things.
I think that was really helpful.
In terms of the conversationitself, I just remember doing some
constellation stuff with you and theamusing random stuff that I found
in my bedroom and bathroom to uh,represent people, those situations,
Julie (27:49):
And with constellations, which is a coaching technique which allows
you to recreate a scenario on a table infront of you using objects that represent
different people or different thingsthat are happening in the situation.
And it's fantastic for givingyou sense of perspective.
Lorraine (28:08):
Mm-hmm.
Julie (28:08):
And looking at what, what is happening in this situation right now,
but also then recreating a version of thispicture, It Is of how you'd like it to
be, because that can just suddenly giveyou these really unexpected insights into.
Oh, so that's something I could startdoing differently or that's a different
attitude that I could have to thissituation or to this person that can just
(28:33):
make these tiny little shifts that doinfluence that system that you are in.
Lorraine (28:41):
Yeah.
I remember picking some very amusingitems to represent different people
according to what toys the kids hadleft in the room and seeing how.
the sort of, almost like theside conversation was the one to
have, not the one face-to-facethat felt more confrontational.
And it reminded me a lot in termsof the shift of how I understood
(29:03):
myself and my tendency towards,right, let's just get this done.
Julie (29:07):
I remember during my, um, training as a coach, we had a
constellations expert, John Whittington.
And, um.
He came into run a half day workshopwith all us, us trainee coaches, and
it was so eye-opening, fascinating.
(29:27):
People would offer to bring theirtopic to the group and people,
and they would go round and pickdifferent people to represent maybe
their mother or their father ordifferent people in a work scenario.
And I remember one, one person, pickingout somebody to represent money in a
(29:47):
situation, and there was just this hugeoutpouring of, historical, not just
emotion, just energy stuff that has seemedto have been caught up inside this person
and, and their, their narratives thatthey've been telling themselves for a
long time about a situation and it seemedto completely clear things for them and
(30:13):
offer them clarity and new perspective.
So it is a really fascinatingtool and technique.
I recently did Constellations with aclient who is really into Dungeons and
Dragons, so she had this box of Dungeonsand Dragons characters right next to her
desk and she was like, this is amazing.
Or I'm gonna get really into it.
Lorraine (30:33):
Oh, that's awesome.
I like that.
Julie (30:35):
Yeah, that was really fun.
Okay, so at this point I'm going to getyou to pick a, a question out of the hat.
So if you'd like to have a rummage around.
Lorraine (30:55):
This is one.
Oh my gosh, I kind ofthought it would be this one.
Julie (31:01):
Which is it?
Lorraine (31:02):
I mean, am I allowed to use the the word or not?
Julie (31:08):
Okay.
We are gonna, we are gonnado a swear warning now.
Lorraine (31:11):
Be, be, be, be beep
Julie (31:12):
and then you can,
Lorraine (31:14):
I have really try not to swear the rest of this.
I feel like I've achieved something andnow here I am being invited to swear.
So.
Question number five.
Uh, biggest fuck up?
Is this in the context of lifeor in terms of the coaching
conversations we were having?
Julie (31:32):
I think it's in the context of your leadership journey so far.
Lorraine (31:39):
I mean, to be fair, there are a lot.
Okay.
So when I first had my probablybiggest shift in terms of
stepping from one position intoa more significant, significant,
perhaps two binary, uh, context.
But it felt like a very significantshift in terms of stepping into a chief
(32:01):
exec role from a project manager role.
I. I was going through quite a lotof trying to do self-learning and
encourage people in that journey.
I knew that I was a very differentpersonality and level of experience to my
predecessor, both in terms of gender, age.
I mean, the list went pretty long, andso I thought it would be great to do
(32:23):
the change cycle with them, which, withhindsight with perhaps not the best
timing when everyone is still in denial.
I say everyone, to be fair,it was only about two out of
six of the other managers.
So there was a person in the organisationwho'd been there since it started, so this
(32:45):
was nearly their 20th year at that point.
I was 30, early thirties.
I was super excited aboutsharing this with them.
I was like, this is gonna be amazing.
We're gonna see so many shifts,people are gonna own their shit.
It's gonna be awesome, or it's gonna be.
Fricking awkward, which is what it was.
So I had this gigantic piece of paper onthe floor with the change cycle and talked
(33:09):
about like the, the different thingsthat were coming down the line in terms
of wanting to reset the vision together.
Talked about how isn't it gonna begreat that we can do all this together?
And then invited people to share , andto give them their respect, um, a couple
of people really did, and they were like,yeah, this is a difficult transition, but
we are really excited that you're here.
And then these are the two people.
It was just, ah, it was so painful.
(33:32):
It was just so cringey.
They couldn't see the pointsin doing the exercise.
They didn't wanna say where they feltthey were on it because they thought
it was stupid and it actually causedmore divisions because the people who
were trying to like lean into it abit and be a bit self-reflective, they
could almost sense that resentmentof like, why are you joining in?
(33:56):
Ugh.
Yeah.
It then probably took, I'd say about ayear to get to a point where the most
significant stuck person could have amore respectful conversation with me.
I never got to the stage where Ifelt I could manage the individual,
in a way that they needed to bemanaged because they'd spent so long,
(34:19):
essentially a law unto themselves.
And the better decision would'vebeen to do the change thing
one-to-one, not as a group.
And the better decision would'vefrankly been probably to let
them go much, much sooner.
So, yes, so that was significantlysignificant fuck up on my part.
Julie (34:39):
Oh gosh, that sounds quite excruciating.
Lorraine (34:42):
Mm-hmm.
Julie (34:43):
Quite funny.
Uh, and it's reminding me about howas new leaders or or taking on new
positions in leadership, the fact isthat we do often just have to change
up that team that's working forus and make those really difficult
decisions and do it in a way that is.
(35:06):
As kind and generous as youcan be and accepting that, you
know, we're on different pathsand, and change needs to happen.
Um, yeah, but it, I think ittakes experience to learn.
Lorraine (35:23):
Yes, it does.
I think the, the idea of beingable to recast a new vision
for people to join in with.
You have to have an understandingas to whether, firstly, those
people really gave a shit aboutwhat the old vision was or not.
Uh, and if they didn't, it's highlyunlikely they're gonna give a shit about
the one you are gonna wanna set with them.
And then secondly, the,um, you, you can teach an
(35:46):
old personage new tricks, butyou can't lead them to water or
some mixing of those metaphors.
Julie (35:52):
Those mixed metaphors
Lorraine (35:53):
Yeah.
Julie (35:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
Lorraine (35:57):
That's okay.
Julie (35:57):
I love that story and it's quite brave to admit it as well.
Okay then, so what's nextfor Lorraine Briffitt?
Lorraine (36:07):
Uh, gajillion meetings, uh, marking of the new year.
So I guess for me it has been a funleadership journey, insert alternate f
word as needed, over the last four years.
It has been very eye-opening in termsof self-reflection and sort of tapping
(36:29):
into some of those previous coachingconversations and then having the
opportunity to benefit from some throughthroughout the last four years as well.
I'm, I'm not really sure.
I think in terms of Connect Readingthe charity I currently lead, we are
facing a time of significant changeas is so much of the nonprofit world,
given the cost of living crisis andmultiple other crises within that.
(36:52):
I think I'm entering a slightly better.
Self-awareness of the connectionbetween mind and body.
So hopefully some more kindness ininternal kindness and, and that sort
of ongoing authenticity and dedicationto do well, but don't do all the time.
Julie (37:13):
Mm. Thank you very much for joining me today.
Lorraine (37:17):
Thanks for having me.
Julie (37:20):
As I listen back to this interview with Lorraine, I'm thinking
about imposter syndrome and how oftenthis arises in my coaching work.
It's a phenomenon typically associatedwith high achieving women, and of
course it often crops up for men too.
The civil rights activist and poet MayaAngelou received numerous prestigious
(37:42):
literary and humanitarian awards inher lifetime, and over 50 honorary
degrees being awarded the highestcivilian honor by President Obama.
And yet she stated, I have written11 books that each time I think
Uh oh, they're gonna find out now.
So my top tips for this episode inregard to imposter syndrome, perhaps
(38:06):
just start to notice any thoughtsthat come to your mind, that relate
to inadequacy, that someone isgonna find you out, write them down.
And if you've used the top tips from myprevious episodes, you can compare them
to the achievements that you have noted.
Also find someone you trust to talk to.
I guarantee that this person will eitherbe feeling the same way about themselves,
(38:29):
or they'll help you to see that thereisn't so much truth in these thoughts.
After all, my second top tip is todedicate some time to discovering
or reviewing your personal values.
Think about your values and beliefs,the principles that you hold dear,
and that drive your decision making.
(38:50):
As these can change as you enterdifferent phases of your life.
For example, it might be about opennessand honesty or a sense of achievement
in your life or financial security.
There are many options to choose from.
Next, gently challenge yourself.
Do these values still hold true or arethey perhaps from a phase in your past?
(39:14):
Can you think of three examples whereyou've demonstrated these values recently?
A useful website for exploring yourvalues is brenebrown.com, from the
academic and podcast of the samename, and also her book is Dare
to Lead, I highly recommend it.
(39:37):
If you'd like to find out how wecould work together, you can visit
my website, www.lighting fires.co.uk.
Email me julie@lightingfires.co.ukor contact me on LinkedIn.
Julie Williams, MSC.
If you found this podcast helpful,please leave a five star rating
(40:00):
so others just like you can findme and benefit from these stories.
Thank you for listening tothe Lighting Fires podcast.
I'll be back soon with moreconversations with my wonderful clients
reflecting on their coaching journeys.
At that point, I think the oddsense of the world was spinning
quickly, but so much of it wason pause because of lockdowns.
Um, and my office, which I'm sure you'llask about later, was at that point based
in our bathroom because it was the onlyplace that I could lock myself away from
(00:25):
my 2-year-old and my 4-year-old, withoutbeing interrupted and just sitting
in this odd bubble of trying to anglecameras for online meetings away from
the toilet, the shower, and the sink.
Julie (00:38):
Um, I did get some flashes at the toilet.
Lorraine (00:42):
You did?
I would angle it round was like, justto be clear, so anyone listening,
I wasn't using it at the time.
Just to make that very clear.
Julie (00:51):
Welcome to the Lighting Fires podcast.
My name is Julie Williams and I'm a coach.
I have a master's in coachingand behavioral change.
Over 10 years of running my own coachingpractice and 15 years in marketing
leadership roles, including Accenture,where I've worked with Microsoft.
In my work, I gain the benefitof walking with people through
(01:13):
their lives for a short time.
So on this podcast, you'll getto hear from people experiencing
key moments of change in theirbusiness and personal lives.
We'll hear what lit their fires and thetechniques that created significant shift.
I hope you find their story inspiring.
(01:33):
In this episode, I talk to LorraineBriffitt, chief Executive of Connect
reading, a charity that makes the townof Redding better for everyone, by
bringing together businesses, charities,and other organisations to benefit the
local community economy and environment.
In this episode, Lorraine and I discussthe importance of defining your values
(01:56):
as a leader, the topic of impostersyndrome, and the power of knowing
how to handle difficult conversations.
I must warn you, there is somestrong language in this episode.
So today I would like towelcome Lorraine Briffitt.
(02:20):
Lorraine, would you liketo introduce yourself?
Lorraine (02:22):
I'm a woman.
I'm a mother.
I'm a chief exec of a charity.
I'm a trustee.
I'm a facetious human, hugelyso, and a work in progress.
And I suppose my biggest passionsare positive change, whether it's
in me, in my circumstances, ormost of all around me in society.
Julie (02:40):
Hmm.
Thank you.
And we first met as I was one ofthe co-founders of Coaching Reading.
I still am.
And I got involved with offeringpro bono coaching to charity and
community leaders in the reading area.
And you had just taken over as Chiefexec of Connect Reading, I think.
Lorraine (03:04):
Yes.
My predecessor spoke veryhighly of the opportunities.
I think she'd met with you andDebs in maybe the November, and
then she sat down in in December,and you were our first ever.
And as it turned out, due to thegigantic lockdown that was coming
around the corner, we didn't knowabout our February networking in 2020.
Julie (03:22):
Yes, I remember it well.
Suddenly everything changedvery soon after that.
So we went on to do somecoaching work together during the
lockdown, and I thought perhapswe could talk about that today.
And I wonder if you could start bytelling us maybe a little bit about
your backstory prior to becomingthe chief Executive Connect Reading.
Lorraine (03:48):
I suppose I spent most of my professional life working in the charity
sector, a little bit in public sector,dabbling in the NHS and then running
away due to the fact that they wouldname systems, PMS, a computer system.
I mean, really, honestly, itreally did have that sort of
temperament to it, to be honest.
Um, a little bit of dabblingin the private sector as
(04:08):
well after I left university.
But I just never really found the rightniche until I kind of settled into spaces
that had a sort of nonprofit drive andbefore I came to Connect Reading, I was
doing a lot of part-time stuff as well asbeing a parent and navigating a recently
diagnosed long-term immuno illness.
(04:29):
And so I was a funeral celebrant.
I was a consultant, a mom.
Uh, trustee, I think on two orthree things and about three
other steering groups as well.
So yeah, I had loads of time,uh, and thought i'd take on a
three day a week chief exec job.
Julie (04:46):
Okay, so there's a lot going on in
Lorraine (04:49):
always.
Julie (04:50):
We could unpack all of that.
Lorraine (04:52):
Let's not,
Julie (04:52):
but let's not.
So fast forward to connect wedding.
And you had taken on a big role withbig challenges plus then suddenly
we had the Lockdowns to contendwith and also the context of the
Black Lives Matter campaigns thatwere were happening at that time.
(05:17):
So why did you come to coaching?
Lorraine (05:19):
I had been very lucky to actually benefit from some pro bono
coaching a couple of times duringmy first ever chief exec position
between 2013 and 2016, and it was very.
I would say it was foundational interms of finding myself as a leader.
I had led many other things up, up tothat point on a slightly smaller scale.
And then the job that I took on in2013 was leading a, a charity of six
(05:43):
projects with kind of 30 staff, andthat was quite a jump from managing
one project within that same charity.
And I think navigating my ownunderstanding of myself as a leader,
as a person within that context, andjust the the strange dance that you
do when you go from leading somethingwithin the context of someone else's
(06:05):
organisation in comparison to then havingto lead the whole thing and having those
same people and the same interactions,but they come out in a different way
due to a different power dynamic.
And so when I took on the ConnectReading role, there were only
two of us on the staff teams.
Quality, not quantity, and obviouslywith the challenges of lockdown when
(06:26):
you've just taken over a networkingbased organisation and also sort of
push through significant changes likemoving offices and rebranding all within
three months on, three days a week.
To say that I've felt slightlyoverwhelmed is probably an understatement.
And having heard you speak at ournetworking and you were sort of
talking about offering free bonocoaching, it felt like a, a very a
(06:50):
very necessary and timely connection.
Julie (06:53):
Mm mm
And I remember our mutual friend, uh,Debs Jeffries, said to me one day, I've
got to introduce you to Lorraine, you twoare going to get on like house on fire,
and I think you could really support eachother as well, which is very much true.
So let's think back to some of thecoaching topics then that we got into.
(07:17):
What would you say was, wasone of the main things that
we were tackling back then?
Lorraine (07:24):
I probably have to say imposter syndrome, which is
irritating 'cause I wish it wasn't.
That is a very frequent awarenessthat I have, I think of myself.
Julie (07:34):
Mm-hmm.
Lorraine (07:34):
Probably throughout my whole life actually.
And especially when you faceleadership and responsibility to
see that as something that you.
Uh, you hold as a privilege, but you alsounderstand that you're there, not just
because there was nobody else to do it,and holding those two things in tandem.
Julie (07:52):
,,,Hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
And can you remember how the impostersyndrome showed up or the thinking
patterns that were there for you or theimpact that it was having on your job.
Lorraine (08:09):
If I start on the thinking patterns, just being reminded of some
of the things I was saying to myselfalmost brings up that same level of kind
of that sort of jarring sense inside.
I apparently was saying of myself thatat some point everybody will realise
that I've done absolutely nothing.
Um, which.
I think if I'm honest now, I'm like,what a ridiculous thing to say because
(08:31):
I'm not somebody who sits still forvery long and I'm always seeking
to do my best and of go beyond.
Julie (08:36):
And I should make it clear that when you talked at the time about feeling
like you weren't achieving anything.
I didn't burst out laughing then.
It's in hindsight thatI, I completely agree.
It seems a ridiculous statementconsidering how much you
do achieve all the time.
Lorraine (08:56):
So at that point.
I think the odd sense of the worldwas spinning quickly, but so much of
it was on pause because of lockdowns.
Um, and my office, which I'm sure you'llask about later, was at that point based
in our bathroom because it was the onlyplace that I could lock myself away from
(09:17):
my 2-year-old or my 4-year-old withoutbeing interrupted and just sitting
in this odd bubble of trying to anglecameras for online meetings away from
the toilet, the shower and the sink.
Julie (09:30):
Um, I did get some flashes at the toilet.
Lorraine (09:34):
You did?
I would angle it round was like,just to be clear to anyone listening,
I wasn't using it at the time.
Um, just to make that very clear.
So I think the, the oddcontext I found myself in.
But then the fact that we weresupporting so many charities who were
just flat out in supporting people insignificant crisis on the frontline.
(09:54):
And in my previous jobs in the nonprofitsector, it has always been frontline.
Julie (09:58):
Hmm.
Lorraine (09:59):
And so normally I'd be out volunteering in the Red Light District
to support women outta prostitution,trafficking, or supporting sort of food
bank stuff or, um, making sure that peoplewere safe or supporting young people on
the edge of sort of mental health crises.
And this felt very odd to be in yourbathroom, sitting there, hearing these
stories of things happening on thefrontline, and then just feeling a bit
(10:21):
powerless about making a positive impactand knowing that the network was there to
support these people, but also who, whowere delivering the frontline services,
but not really knowing how to do thatbecause you couldn't sort of reach them,
get things to them and things like that.
So that was a very odd feeling of,um, feeling a bit removed, I think.
Julie (10:41):
Yeah.
So what was useful then in the coaching?
What helped to create some shiftsaround the imposter syndrome
or outside of the coaching?
Lorraine (10:52):
Well, I think coaching, at its best, it supports the ecosystem of a
person's awareness that they need to havesome sort of change or shift go on within
themselves to see that change outsideof themselves in the context they're in.
And it was a lifeline, I think, tohave you as a mirror or reflection
back of the things I was seeing inmyself that perhaps were not true
(11:15):
reality, but also knowing that therewas someone who was safe to say that to.
'cause sometimes you could have said,I could've said that, and you could've
laughed and you didn't, you listened.
And I think hearing somebody else reflectback what you've said can sometimes
either highlight the absurdity of whatyou say about yourself or just allow some
grace to notice the disparity betweenyour internal voice and what happens on
(11:41):
the interior of our own experience, andthen what happens in the context of that,
in terms of the exterior experience.
Julie (11:46):
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I think I completely agree.
I'm just reflecting back on aconversation I had with a counselor
that I occasionally visit recently and,and I said something out loud to him,
but I don't think I've ever said toanybody and he could have laughed 'cause
(12:07):
I think it would've been fair enough.
But actually he just listened and heplayed it back to me and he enabled me
just to almost like it was holding thisthought in our hands and just looking at
it from different angles or perspectives.
And it really created a very significantshift in a very short period of time.
Lorraine (12:28):
Mm.
Julie (12:29):
So I think it is often just having that other person that you trust
to hold something and to, to have alook at it together is very helpful.
So I remember that we worked on youcreating a mantra or something that
you could say to yourself to reinforcethe kind, the self-belief, and, and to
(12:55):
help you with the imposter syndrome.
And in the world of coaching,this is known as an anchor.
And so what we do is create, um, it couldbe a metaphor or it could be an image.
When I say image, an image in yourmind, in your imagination, or it could
be a physical image that you draw or astatement that you can repeat on a regular
(13:19):
basis, which just helps to lay down akind of new neural pathway in the brain,
which creates a kind of a new thinkingpattern that you can go to much more
swiftly when you need to call upon it.
Can you remember what your statement was?
Lorraine (13:36):
I'm not gonna say yes because you actually told me.
'cause you read the notes and I'm notgonna pretend I have that excellent
memory about myself or that I have infact carried on using it probably beyond
the first year of very helpful use.
Uh, it was, people don't have to likeme, I just have to be kind and honest.
Um, and.
I still find it quite funny evenjust reading it now, um, because
(13:58):
I think I have moved past thatdesperate sense of everything I
do needs to be approved by people.
Perhaps something to sometimes too muchso, but I think that that dedication to
kindness and to honesty has been sortof one of my core values going through
(14:19):
and having recently actually come outof some conversations with a friend
who was supporting me through a verydifficult time in the charity the last
of three months, she signposted me toBrene Brown's sort of values and how
to sort of almost mind through how,how your top three or top two would be.
And I just found that offensive.
So I would have to pick just two things.
Um, but one of them was authenticity,which obviously resonates with honesty.
(14:43):
And the other one was kindness.
And so I think.
That was a pivotal moment of mining out abit of who am I and why is that important?
And if people don't like it, that's okay.
I'm still me and I'm validto be me in those spaces.
Yeah.
Julie (14:59):
And um, I hope you don't mind me saying so with an anchor, something
like this, it's important to repeat thisthought regularly and it can be very
useful to connect it to something thatyou will repeatedly do during the day.
So some clients might link itto brushing their teeth, for
(15:22):
example, or pulling the kettle on.
Lorraine (15:24):
What you're saying is normal people who didn't have their office in
a bathroom might have connected it toperhaps more average practices, but no.
Julie (15:36):
What did you connect it to?
Lorraine (15:38):
Well, having been able to see, said bathroom all the time.
Whenever I was in my work context, Ithink that the thing I would do quite
regularly, I'm glad to report, was goingto the toilet and so I had to think
chalk pens and so I just wrote on theshower wall next to where I went to the
loo, which my husband found quite funny.
Julie (16:00):
And I think whatever works right, if, if that's what, sure.
Lorraine (16:03):
Generally people don't get outed about these practices or you know, in a
larger, more public space, but sure, yeah.
I think anyone who does know me hasprobably come to expect this behavior
Julie (16:14):
And, and my recollection of some of the conversations about imposter
syndrome was that you felt that ifyou could move past it, you could
really free up so much else and youcould kind of take care of yourself.
So that would, that was very muchlinked to leadership and resilience
and your energy levels as well.
And that, you know, if you could be kindto yourself, then you could perhaps be
(16:39):
more comfortable, you can relax more.
Does, does any of that sound familiar?
Lorraine (16:45):
Yeah.
I think the, the resilience thing foranybody during, during lockdowns was a
problem, whether you are continuing towork in an ordinary pattern if someone's
in frontline Blue Light Services orbusinesses that didn't necessarily
see a change in their work pattern.
Still that sense of nationalanxiety around how long will
(17:10):
this go on, what will happen?
And the, the strange dance in and outof lockdowns resilience was a, was a
frequently discussed desire or topic, Isuppose in, in a lot of leadership spaces.
I think for me, holding onto thatmantra, um, and the anchor of that.
It was how to be kind and honestwith myself as much as with others.
(17:34):
Um, and that has continued to be alearning curve for me, I would say in
terms of my autoimmune condition, whichis Myasthenia Gravis, managing energy,
managing brain space, learning more aboutmy own patterns of thought and desire
to fix things and being on the go a lot.
(17:58):
I think trying to find a better rhythm,if that was, that was the start of,
of sort of changes over the last fouryears and I think that has helped,
but it, I'm still a work in progress.
Julie (18:08):
Mm-hmm.
Are you feeling stuck and need somehelp moving forwards at lighting fires?
I work with business leaders, futureleaders, and their teams to ignite
their full leadership potential.
Whether you're a business owneror leading in an organisation,
(18:31):
we can work together to create aprogram tailored to your priorities.
Throughout our coaching together,I see my clients' confidence and
capabilities grow as they gain a greaterunderstanding of how they work, learn
to make quicker decisions and developa vision for their role and a plan on
how to get there through the challengesand the breakthroughs, you'll have me
(18:53):
by your side . Get in touch on LinkedInor email me julie@lightingfires.co.uk
So if somebody else is listening tothis and they're experiencing imposter
syndrome, what would you say to them?
Lorraine (19:14):
Talk to somebody.
Don't be embarrassed.
You're not alone.
I think there's a tendency forwomen to feel this more than men.
Unfortunately, we exist still within manypatriarchal constructs, and whilst it
can be perhaps more noticeable to namethe silencing of female voices in public
(19:35):
spaces actually, it has a parallel effectof silencing our voices to ourselves.
Um, and that is very, very significantlyseen, I think, and felt in terms
of the mental and physical and howthose two things are deeply linked
and recognising how to listen, notjust to our internal voices mentally,
but to listen to our bodies and howthose two things are intrinsically
(19:57):
linked, and we cannot escape that.
And again, I think that was part of myongoing journey, having recognised what
was happening in my head to recognisewhat's happening in my body and not assume
that I'm not supposed to be in a place.
Because when you are in a place inyour body, you occupy space in that.
And if you continually feelthat you shouldn't be there.
You shrink yourself and you sort ofessentially oppress yourself even
(20:20):
if the situation is oppressive.
And so that's just another layerthat you have to break through.
So talk to others about it and don't layermore shame on yourself for feeling about
it or, yeah, or or sort of blaming, Ithink because it is a sad truth for many
women and also for men, I think, who findthemselves in leadership positions or
(20:41):
places of responsibility where they feellike the odd one out for whatever reason.
Julie (20:46):
Mm mm That's really insightful.
Thank you.
Sharing that.
Thinking back to the coaching, were thereother topics that you've reflected on?
That might be interesting to talk about?
Lorraine (21:01):
I think having supported a number of people to access the
coaching that you've offered throughCoaching Reading, uh, a lot of the time
they start talking about a difficultconversation that they know they
probably need to have at some point.
Julie (21:15):
Mm-hmm.
Lorraine (21:15):
And uh, for me at that point, there were some pretty
difficult relationships I was facing.
Some of them were.
Organisational in terms of what Ihad inherited as an organisation, uh,
and identifying how that sat perhapsadjacent to or in competition with other
organisations and trying to unpick thatand then noticing that alongside that
(21:37):
there were also personality clashes isprobably too strong a word, but perhaps
at the time I think I would've saidclashes with individuals for from me to
them, and having not really anticipatedthat that would be the case because I'd
known them before I took the role on . Sobeing able to identify how to face those
difficult conversations by firstly, notreally constantly holding onto this thing
(22:00):
of everyone has to like me, feelingthat I wanted that to be the case because
I wanted people to like me because Ithought in my head that, my role was me.
And I think that is an ongoingjourney for many people,
especially when they run their ownbusiness, that you are the brand.
And I remember arguing with a personwho redid our website, who's amazing,
but it was all about, you know, itwas, it was the charity, it's not me.
(22:23):
And then being like, no, it's you.
And I was like, grr.
I still don't reallylike it, but there we go.
I think we then struggle with thatwhen people say no to your work
that they are saying no to you.
And that's a strange continuum.
So I think at that point, difficultconversations was one of the biggest
comedy moments in some context.
Um, and also one of the most significantchanges in terms of the coaching impact.
Julie (22:47):
Okay.
I think that's really interesting.
That point about when you run your ownbusiness or whether if you're the face of
an organisation, particularly small one,there's so much of you wrapped up in it.
And I think when I firstset up my coaching business.
I, I probably didn't recognisehow much of it was me in terms
(23:08):
of the brand, and actually thatled to sometimes real exhaustion.
Lorraine (23:15):
Yeah,
Julie (23:16):
because I, I always want to do my best with clients.
I work with, I work hard.
I see myself as, I hate the wordjourney, but it does feel like I'm
walking along a path with them duringthe, the coaching and maybe we're
just together in that moment of time.
(23:39):
And so I think there've been timeswhen my identity has been so wrapped
up in my coaching work that I've, Ihave had to over the last couple of
years, try to, to separate out the two.
And I think it was probably a bitintentional at the beginning to, to,
for it to become part of my identitybecause I was leaving the corporate world
(24:02):
and that was such a shift and I lovedcoaching so much, so passionate about it.
You know, when I first discoveredit, it was like this whole new
amazing world that, um, completelythrilled me and does still thrill me.
But it's, it's not that healthyto be that closely identified with
(24:23):
the work you do, it can definitelylead to some exhaustion at times.
Lorraine (24:27):
Yeah, I think the, there seem to be in discussions around whether
you are what you do or you know, thecompartmentalising, I actually think it's
probably slightly more nuanced than that.
It's not either or.
I think there's no shame inidentifying yourself through
your brand or vice versa or.
You know, pouring yourself intosomething that you're passionate about.
(24:47):
You know, people wouldn't get goodthings done if that didn't happen.
If we just sort ofswitched to flick, nope.
flick the switch.
Switch to flick, do theswitching of the flicks.
You know, if we were able to do that,I think actually the shifts we would
see within ourselves and within thethings we work within and that we
dedicated to wouldn't necessarily moveso much, it wouldn't shift the dial.
However, I think the, the hard part,and actually that was probably more
(25:10):
difficult to do during the, duringthe pandemic, was in a lockdown.
How do you break state between thedoing and the job role and the whoing?
Julie (25:21):
Yeah.
Lorraine (25:22):
Um, and the difference between to do, and to be, was very, very bled.
And sadly, I think that's probably oneof the things we've continued to have
to try and navigate in a hybrid worldthat you bring your work home and your
home to work, which is probably actuallybetter I think, in terms of bringing
your home life and your context to work.
(25:42):
'cause there's more authenticity to that.
But the, the opposite of thatin terms of work home is very
hard to leave that at the door.
Or to have a, a, a regular practice thatallows us to change state between the two.
Julie (25:55):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and that actually came up a lot inthe coaching work that I was doing during
lockdowns was so many people workingfrom home and having no boundaries.
You know, they'd finish work possiblyat their kitchen table and then start
their childcare duties or their cookingor... and no ability to just decompress
(26:17):
or switch off or, or shift roles.
So, yeah, and I do think it continuesto be yeah, a, a challenge for people.
So, coming back to the topic of difficultconversations, what was it that happened
during the coaching sessions thatenabled you to have those, would you say?
(26:38):
I
Lorraine (26:38):
think the, the first one was the, the mantra of this
person doesn't have to like me.
I, I'd love to knowwhether they do or not.
Now.
I would say letting myself off thehook for that kind of, I must have
everybody like what we're doingand like why we are and like what
I am and what it's about, and just,yeah, just stop trying so hard, FFS.
(27:04):
And then secondly, I think being ableto untangle the difference between
organisational clashes, again, being toostrong a word, but, uh, disparities maybe
in terms of trajectory of, of delivery,passion, vision, values, et cetera.
The difference between that and thenthe difference between people and
humans, and how often our organizationsbecome like the person leading them.
(27:27):
And that is part forthe course, it's normal.
It's not a bad thing, but itmeans that you need to own the
difference between those two things.
I think that was really helpful.
In terms of the conversationitself, I just remember doing some
constellation stuff with you and theamusing random stuff that I found
in my bedroom and bathroom to uh,represent people, those situations,
Julie (27:49):
And with constellations, which is a coaching technique which allows
you to recreate a scenario on a table infront of you using objects that represent
different people or different thingsthat are happening in the situation.
And it's fantastic for givingyou sense of perspective.
Lorraine (28:08):
Mm-hmm.
Julie (28:08):
And looking at what, what is happening in this situation right now,
but also then recreating a version of thispicture, It Is of how you'd like it to
be, because that can just suddenly giveyou these really unexpected insights into.
Oh, so that's something I could startdoing differently or that's a different
attitude that I could have to thissituation or to this person that can just
(28:33):
make these tiny little shifts that doinfluence that system that you are in.
Lorraine (28:41):
Yeah.
I remember picking some very amusingitems to represent different people
according to what toys the kids hadleft in the room and seeing how.
the sort of, almost like theside conversation was the one to
have, not the one face-to-facethat felt more confrontational.
And it reminded me a lot in termsof the shift of how I understood
(29:03):
myself and my tendency towards,right, let's just get this done.
Julie (29:07):
I remember during my, um, training as a coach, we had a
constellations expert, John Whittington.
And, um.
He came into run a half day workshopwith all us, us trainee coaches, and
it was so eye-opening, fascinating.
(29:27):
People would offer to bring theirtopic to the group and people,
and they would go round and pickdifferent people to represent maybe
their mother or their father ordifferent people in a work scenario.
And I remember one, one person, pickingout somebody to represent money in a
(29:47):
situation, and there was just this hugeoutpouring of, historical, not just
emotion, just energy stuff that has seemedto have been caught up inside this person
and, and their, their narratives thatthey've been telling themselves for a
long time about a situation and it seemedto completely clear things for them and
(30:13):
offer them clarity and new perspective.
So it is a really fascinatingtool and technique.
I recently did Constellations with aclient who is really into Dungeons and
Dragons, so she had this box of Dungeonsand Dragons characters right next to her
desk and she was like, this is amazing.
Or I'm gonna get really into it.
Lorraine (30:33):
Oh, that's awesome.
I like that.
Julie (30:35):
Yeah, that was really fun.
Okay, so at this point I'm going to getyou to pick a, a question out of the hat.
So if you'd like to have a rummage around.
Lorraine (30:55):
This is one.
Oh my gosh, I kind ofthought it would be this one.
Julie (31:01):
Which is it?
Lorraine (31:02):
I mean, am I allowed to use the the word or not?
Julie (31:08):
Okay.
We are gonna, we are gonnado a swear warning now.
Lorraine (31:11):
Be, be, be, be beep
Julie (31:12):
and then you can,
Lorraine (31:14):
I have really try not to swear the rest of this.
I feel like I've achieved something andnow here I am being invited to swear.
So.
Question number five.
Uh, biggest fuck up?
Is this in the context of lifeor in terms of the coaching
conversations we were having?
Julie (31:32):
I think it's in the context of your leadership journey so far.
Lorraine (31:39):
I mean, to be fair, there are a lot.
Okay.
So when I first had my probablybiggest shift in terms of
stepping from one position intoa more significant, significant,
perhaps two binary, uh, context.
But it felt like a very significantshift in terms of stepping into a chief
(32:01):
exec role from a project manager role.
I. I was going through quite a lotof trying to do self-learning and
encourage people in that journey.
I knew that I was a very differentpersonality and level of experience to my
predecessor, both in terms of gender, age.
I mean, the list went pretty long, andso I thought it would be great to do
(32:23):
the change cycle with them, which, withhindsight with perhaps not the best
timing when everyone is still in denial.
I say everyone, to be fair,it was only about two out of
six of the other managers.
So there was a person in the organisationwho'd been there since it started, so this
(32:45):
was nearly their 20th year at that point.
I was 30, early thirties.
I was super excited aboutsharing this with them.
I was like, this is gonna be amazing.
We're gonna see so many shifts,people are gonna own their shit.
It's gonna be awesome, or it's gonna be.
Fricking awkward, which is what it was.
So I had this gigantic piece of paper onthe floor with the change cycle and talked
(33:09):
about like the, the different thingsthat were coming down the line in terms
of wanting to reset the vision together.
Talked about how isn't it gonna begreat that we can do all this together?
And then invited people to share , andto give them their respect, um, a couple
of people really did, and they were like,yeah, this is a difficult transition, but
we are really excited that you're here.
And then these are the two people.
It was just, ah, it was so painful.
(33:32):
It was just so cringey.
They couldn't see the pointsin doing the exercise.
They didn't wanna say where they feltthey were on it because they thought
it was stupid and it actually causedmore divisions because the people who
were trying to like lean into it abit and be a bit self-reflective, they
could almost sense that resentmentof like, why are you joining in?
(33:56):
Ugh.
Yeah.
It then probably took, I'd say about ayear to get to a point where the most
significant stuck person could have amore respectful conversation with me.
I never got to the stage where Ifelt I could manage the individual,
in a way that they needed to bemanaged because they'd spent so long,
(34:19):
essentially a law unto themselves.
And the better decision would'vebeen to do the change thing
one-to-one, not as a group.
And the better decision would'vefrankly been probably to let
them go much, much sooner.
So, yes, so that was significantlysignificant fuck up on my part.
Julie (34:39):
Oh gosh, that sounds quite excruciating.
Lorraine (34:42):
Mm-hmm.
Julie (34:43):
Quite funny.
Uh, and it's reminding me about howas new leaders or or taking on new
positions in leadership, the fact isthat we do often just have to change
up that team that's working forus and make those really difficult
decisions and do it in a way that is.
(35:06):
As kind and generous as youcan be and accepting that, you
know, we're on different pathsand, and change needs to happen.
Um, yeah, but it, I think ittakes experience to learn.
Lorraine (35:23):
Yes, it does.
I think the, the idea of beingable to recast a new vision
for people to join in with.
You have to have an understandingas to whether, firstly, those
people really gave a shit aboutwhat the old vision was or not.
Uh, and if they didn't, it's highlyunlikely they're gonna give a shit about
the one you are gonna wanna set with them.
And then secondly, the,um, you, you can teach an
(35:46):
old personage new tricks, butyou can't lead them to water or
some mixing of those metaphors.
Julie (35:52):
Those mixed metaphors
Lorraine (35:53):
Yeah.
Julie (35:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
Lorraine (35:57):
That's okay.
Julie (35:57):
I love that story and it's quite brave to admit it as well.
Okay then, so what's nextfor Lorraine Briffitt?
Lorraine (36:07):
Uh, gajillion meetings, uh, marking of the new year.
So I guess for me it has been a funleadership journey, insert alternate f
word as needed, over the last four years.
It has been very eye-opening in termsof self-reflection and sort of tapping
(36:29):
into some of those previous coachingconversations and then having the
opportunity to benefit from some throughthroughout the last four years as well.
I'm, I'm not really sure.
I think in terms of Connect Readingthe charity I currently lead, we are
facing a time of significant changeas is so much of the nonprofit world,
given the cost of living crisis andmultiple other crises within that.
(36:52):
I think I'm entering a slightly better.
Self-awareness of the connectionbetween mind and body.
So hopefully some more kindness ininternal kindness and, and that sort
of ongoing authenticity and dedicationto do well, but don't do all the time.
Julie (37:13):
Mm. Thank you very much for joining me today.
Lorraine (37:17):
Thanks for having me.
Julie (37:20):
As I listen back to this interview with Lorraine, I'm thinking
about imposter syndrome and how oftenthis arises in my coaching work.
It's a phenomenon typically associatedwith high achieving women, and of
course it often crops up for men too.
The civil rights activist and poet MayaAngelou received numerous prestigious
(37:42):
literary and humanitarian awards inher lifetime, and over 50 honorary
degrees being awarded the highestcivilian honor by President Obama.
And yet she stated, I have written11 books that each time I think
Uh oh, they're gonna find out now.
So my top tips for this episode inregard to imposter syndrome, perhaps
(38:06):
just start to notice any thoughtsthat come to your mind, that relate
to inadequacy, that someone isgonna find you out, write them down.
And if you've used the top tips from myprevious episodes, you can compare them
to the achievements that you have noted.
Also find someone you trust to talk to.
I guarantee that this person will eitherbe feeling the same way about themselves,
(38:29):
or they'll help you to see that thereisn't so much truth in these thoughts.
After all, my second top tip is todedicate some time to discovering
or reviewing your personal values.
Think about your values and beliefs,the principles that you hold dear,
and that drive your decision making.
(38:50):
As these can change as you enterdifferent phases of your life.
For example, it might be about opennessand honesty or a sense of achievement
in your life or financial security.
There are many options to choose from.
Next, gently challenge yourself.
Do these values still hold true or arethey perhaps from a phase in your past?
(39:14):
Can you think of three examples whereyou've demonstrated these values recently?
A useful website for exploring yourvalues is brenebrown.com, from the
academic and podcast of the samename, and also her book is Dare
to Lead, I highly recommend it.
(39:37):
If you'd like to find out how wecould work together, you can visit
my website, www.lighting fires.co.uk.
Email me julie@lightingfires.co.ukor contact me on LinkedIn.
Julie Williams, MSC.
If you found this podcast helpful,please leave a five star rating
(40:00):
so others just like you can findme and benefit from these stories.
Thank you for listening tothe Lighting Fires podcast.
I'll be back soon with moreconversations with my wonderful clients
reflecting on their coaching journeys.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.