July 14, 2025 • 47 mins
In this compelling episode, DL the lowLIFE hosts Cathy Garland, pastor’s kid turned author whose journey reveals how God breaks religious tradition to birth a real, personal revelationship with Jesus. Cathy courageously shares how she escaped spiritual abuse and embraced true freedom in Christ. Tune in for this raw, faith‑building conversation on surrender, healing, identity, and authenticity in your walk with God.
Tune in and come walk with us as we seek Revelationship.
Follow the link below to learn more about Cathy Garland and her book Revelationship.
https://www.revelationship.net/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to The Low Life Show, a space where we have
conversations about thestruggles of life, where we
declare war on pride and walkhumbly into renewed living with
a surrendered heart, where wetake our past failures and turn
them into a roadmap for you tolive in peace and living the low
life.
Whether you're working throughpersonal struggles or simply
(00:23):
seeking a fresh perspective,this podcast will inspire and
equip you to live low and letGod lift you up.
I'm your host, DL the Lowlife, areformed professional dirtbag
who's here to tell you that Inow live a life of peace
transformed through humility.
Join me.
Let's get low.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Lord Jesus, we are so grateful that your promises
that you will never leave us,you will never forsake us, no
matter what we face.
And Lord, as you lead us throughthe journey, whether it's to
rescue us from Egypt and by yourown power, by your own might, by
your own wings, you draw us outof Egypt.
(01:07):
You do what you have to do inorder to win us.
You bring us out into the desertwhere you meet us and you equip
us and then you send us into thepromised land, but you go with
us into the promised land.
And then we can take hold of allthe things that you have
promised thriving in yourpresence because it's not about
(01:28):
the land.
It's not about our goals.
It's not about our purpose.
purpose here on earth it's aboutyour presence and that is the
purpose pouring out yourpresence on this earth reversing
what the fall did so that onceagain like we see in the story
of revelation at the very endwhen you announce finally the
(01:52):
dwelling of God is with man thatis what we're after the dwelling
of God is with man so Lord weare so grateful that you have
orchestrated everything singleperson's story in order to pour
out your presence and reversethe curse thank you for that in
jesus name
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
jesus name amen thank you thank you well welcome
to the lowlife show i am yourhost dl the lowlife and today we
have a special guest we havemiss kathy garland kathy is the
author of revelationship she isa prayer warrior a lover of
theology a suffering coach adeliverance advocate speaker
writer, chief marketing officer,a wife, a mother, and a lover
(02:37):
and friend of Jesus.
Kathy, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
This is going to be great.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
I agree.
Well, let's just dive right in.
Tell us about yourself, Kathy.
Tell us where your journeystarted and how this came about,
where you've become this personthat I see before me today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
You know, I think what people would love to know
mostly is that I grew up inchurch and I am a pastor's kid,
but I'm not one of thosepastor's kids.
I did not.
You laugh.
Everybody laughs because we knowwhat I'm talking about.
I have been raised by trulyauthentic pastors.
people who love God and lovepeople.
(03:17):
And all six of us kids and laterthree more adopted kids, nine of
us in total, love God and lovepeople.
And I think that's a testamentto my parents' faith.
But as I grew up in the church,it was hard.
I will admit, there were peoplewho wronged me, wronged my
family.
(03:37):
Church abuse is a real thingbecause church attracts people
who are broken, and brokenpeople break people.
I mean, that's what they do.
So when I was about 13 or so, Ireally began to question whether
or not this form of religion,aka Christianity, was what I
(04:00):
wanted to pursue.
And so I went to my dad and mymom and said, I'm not sure this
thing is for me.
And instead of panicking, whichI think a lot of people would
do, they saw it as a healthyform of growing up and maturing.
So they, my dad, took me to thelibrary and we checked out a
stack of books that was as tallas I was.
(04:22):
I mean, it was massive.
And I studied all the majorreligions and quite a few of the
non-major religions to assesslogically, reasonably, is this a
better way?
And at the end of my 13th year,I came to the conclusion that
this was the best way And that,by far, and that the Jesus who
(04:44):
was revealed in Scripture wasreal, and he wanted a
relationship with meparticularly.
And that's important, becausewhen you're growing up in
church, you're singing, Jesusloves me, Jesus loves the whole
wide world, everybody in it.
You get this sort of like...
loosey-goosey sort of lovethat's just kind of poured out
on the earth.
(05:04):
But does he actually love me?
Does he call me?
Does he want me?
And so that...
personal relationship began thereconstruction journey where I
disregarded what I would calltraditions made of men sometimes
and held and clinged to thethings that I could prove were
(05:25):
real, what Christ said himself,what he revealed in the Old
Testament, etc.
So that's kind of myreconstruction journey, mostly
looking for the revelation ofwho God is because My identity
is completely based on who Heis.
(05:47):
And I think in church we used tohave a saying, and I think it
was stupid really just to goaround saying it.
We said, know who you are inChrist.
I didn't know who God was inorder to know who I was.
So it became absolutelynecessary to know who He is.
If He is the God who sees me, ElRoy, That's what Elroy means.
(06:11):
It's a Hebrew word, the God whosees me.
Hagar said it.
You are the God who sees me.
If he is the God who sees me,then I am seen.
That is my identity.
And so a lot of people are goingaround with a clipboard trying
to check off all their identityboxes when they've lost the very
root of their identity, which isin who God is and who he says he
(06:36):
is in that revelation.
So that was my reconstructionjourney.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
I think it's very important tonote that your parents didn't
try to stop you from finding Godin the way that you did, right?
A lot of times we find in thechurches, oh, you can't do that
because then that's worshipingother idols.
That's seeking idols.
That's doing something that isnot pleasing to God.
(07:02):
But if it's a journey and a paththat helps you find him and a
relationship with him, then it'slike the end justifies the
means, right?
As you were speaking, I wasreminded of that song, Jesus
loves me, this I know, right?
And I feel like that's exactlywhat you were talking about.
(07:22):
It's for the Bible tells me so,but the relationship you have
with him is Jesus loves me, thisI know, because he himself told
me so.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
Right.
And that's, that's a beautifulthing.
So walking through the, thedeconstruction, right.
What did that look like?
I mean, was there, were there,there would have, I would assume
because there's a lot ofattractive things in these
different religions, right?
Ooh, this one allows me to dothis.
(07:51):
This one allows me to do that.
Or was your sole purpose just tofind Jesus?
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
I think my sole purpose was to find what was
true.
So real things, true thingsmatch real things.
And so I needed to know what wasreal.
And part of the reason that alot of people kind of fall away
from the church is becausethey've experienced what is not
real within the church.
So they'll experience hypocrisyor they'll experience keeping
(08:17):
the law in order to getholiness.
But holiness is not aboutkeeping the law.
Holiness is an opportunity todwell with God.
That's what's real.
He says, be holy.
for I am holy, because I want todwell with you.
Not because He doesn't want youto eat shrimp.
He wants you to be with Him, andHe can't be with you if you're
(08:39):
hiking up your skirts, as theBible uses the sort of whoring
techno words, hiking your skirtschasing after everything the
world offers or elbowing yourway to every freedom it wasn't
about freedom so I did look atall the different religions and
consider you know okay this saysthis and this says this what's
(09:00):
true and there were somereligions that were really kind
of easy to get rid of so andtotally disregard for example
the Muslim religion as a womanthat is pretty out for me
because you know I'm going todrive and we're not doing all
the things so that's That was apretty quick elimination.
But you're right.
Buddhism has some things to it.
(09:21):
You're kind of like, oh, okay.
But you dig a little surface andyou find out, this is not real.
It's not actually reality.
And so I don't want somethingthat I have to switch what's
real and force a non-reality onmy reality.
That's the problem with Buddhismin most cases.
(09:42):
And you said, you know, myparents didn't panic.
But the reason they didn't panicis because the Bible says if you
ask, seek, and knock, you'regoing to find him.
That's what he guarantees.
And deconstruction, I think...
think right now people areafraid of it they don't like
this word they're not sure howto define it but deconstruction
is simply taking things down tothe studs the foundation and the
(10:06):
the support systems that arereal the rest of it is facade
and it's it's a time-honoredchristian tradition martin
luther deconstructedCatholicism.
And quite frankly, the disciplesdeconstructed Judaism.
So this is a time-honoredtradition, and I think people
(10:26):
are afraid of it mostly becausethey haven't answered the deep
questions within themselves.
So they're...
not sure they're going to beable to answer their kids'
questions.
But I highly recommend that theydo it together and train
children like I have kids.
I'm training them to askquestions because I can't be
(10:47):
afraid of questions becausewhat's real can withstand
questioning.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Amen.
Amen.
Yeah.
And as you were talking and youhit on it right as I was hearing
it in my head was train up achild in the way he or she
should go.
And you found yourself on thispath.
So it's like you're allowingthem the space to discover
Christ revealed to them.
(11:13):
And I love the authenticity ofwhat you're talking about.
It's like, that was easy to justshed that one.
This one does sound good, butit's...
And at the end of the day, Jesussays he's the truth.
So what you find is...
is that right so if you lookthrough this this it's an
(11:34):
interesting thing i saw thisquote the other day and they
talked about this guy wastalking about you know uh he had
studied like you all thereligions right and what he
found was that though not all ofthe religions call jesus who we
call him they all revere him sothere's something to that right
(11:55):
Like he is the only thing thatevery religious group has a
respect for.
He's the only person that theywill revere.
They might say, oh, he was justa good person, but they're still
calling him good.
They might say he was just aprophet, but they're still
giving him the office ofprophet, right?
So I love that you were able togo through all of those things.
(12:16):
And what came out at the end waslike you said, you were
searching for truth and youfound the truth.
You found Jesus, right?
And so that's a, That's abeautiful thing.
And it leads me to wonder,surrender is a very important
thing in life.
We've discussed this a littlebit.
It's very important.
(12:36):
I've seen with what you teach,with how you live, with what
your foundation is, and thesurrendering, what I'm seeing is
like surrendering of identitythat we literally have to do,
right?
Like who we've formed ourselvesto be in exchange for who he
(12:56):
says we are, right?
So let's talk a little bit moreabout that.
What was that surrendering likefor you?
So you've gone through all ofthese things and you've
basically surrendered thenotions that you were taught,
right?
In lieu of a pursuit of who heis, right?
What happened after that?
Let's talk through thesurrendering in that and then
how that felt.
There may have been a level ofshock.
(13:17):
I mean, I know for me, when I,as I started growing into this
intimacy with the father, I findthat a lot of the things that I
was taught were not right.
Not to say that they were notwell-intended, not to say that
they weren't out of love, butthey are just, it's not who he
is, right?
(13:38):
And I feel like it forced me toalmost be trapped in a box and
feel as though I couldn't be mebecause of these things.
So what was that like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I agree.
I mean, growing up in a Southerncharismatic church, sometimes
fads and laws, I'll call themlaws, will kind of blow through
the church.
But, you know, one of them wasthat women had to wear skirts.
And I was like, what?
where's that in the Bible, youknow?
(14:12):
And I am a Bible nerd now.
So, I mean, I'm aself-proclaimed Bible nerd.
So, I'm asking my dad, where isthat in the Bible?
Why do I have to do this?
This seems to be this thing thateverybody's assuming is modest,
you know, or something.
And like, oh, yeah, you know, itwas the time when they were
saying things like modest ishottest.
And I hate that saying with theloathing that I cannot tell you.
(14:36):
So, I asked him, where is thisin the Bible?
And he said, It's not.
Then I said, I'm out.
I'm not doing it.
So legalism is keeping a set ofrules that God does not require
from you and assuming it's goingto work in you holiness.
Holiness is only worked out oneway.
(14:56):
Holiness is worked out byproximity with the Holy Spirit.
So I have the dwelling of theHoly Spirit within me.
I spend time with the HolySpirit.
We become intimate like you'retalking about.
Holiness is brought out fromwithin, out.
And so I had to reallyunderstand and grab onto that
(15:19):
intimacy.
What happened for me was as Iprogressed in leadership in the
church, and I found myselfmarried very young.
Again, it was the purityculture, and we didn't date, and
I married very young, and then Ifound myself divorced, and I
found myself with twomiscarriages, and all the things
(15:41):
that I was not expecting.
Like, you know, when you dotyour I's and cross your T's, you
assume that you're gonna getsomething like the American
dream with the picket fences andthe kids and the chickens, but
you don't, not always.
And so I was heartbroken andjust trying to find my way to
what God wanted me to do.
(16:01):
And I was driving home inAtlanta when one of those
storms, if you have ever been inAtlanta, they just pop up and
you're stuck And it's just likedownpouring.
You can't see in front of you.
And I was very...
down from what I wasexperiencing I had a job in the
Hollywood industry marketingthat was kind of being birthed
(16:22):
in Atlanta and I just come froma party and it just was like
look you know and I just feltwhy am I here and I don't like
what I'm doing I don't love thisI'm I'm still doing my devotions
I'm still attending church threetimes a week at least I'm still
participating in ministry okayI'm doing all the things and And
(16:45):
I was just driving home withthis blah.
And I said, Lord, will you justmake a tree fall on top of me
and just take me home?
And he spoke.
out of my passenger seat of mycar.
I had never heard his audiblevoice before.
I'd heard it in my heart.
(17:06):
I was pretty sure it was him.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't,the whole thing.
But it was so startling, Ialmost crashed into a tree.
Okay, so that's how audible itwas.
And I pulled over on the side ofthe road.
And I had a come-to-Jesusmoment, as we call it, in the
South.
And I said, we're going to havea conversation because I've been
(17:28):
serving you all these years, andyou've never once spoken like
this to me before.
And after that, he didn't speakout loud, but I didn't need to
hear him out loud because now Iknew which voice in my head was
his.
And he said the words.
Here's the words he said to me.
He said, if you don't want yourlife, I do.
I've been serving him.
(17:48):
I assumed my life was his.
What?
So I said, okay, we're going tohave a conversation.
And he said, I want you tosurrender to me.
And he put in the word, the nameof my boyfriend.
And so I said, done.
He said, I want you to surrenderme your job.
I said, done.
And so he would ask me for thesethings.
(18:08):
I grew up in church where peoplewould say, yield.
which is a traffic term, and Ihave no idea what that means.
I am a great driver, but I stilldon't know what yield means
other than in traffic.
So people would say, oh, Iyielded that to the Lord, but
then I took it back.
I'm like, well, That's not veryefficient.
(18:28):
So I said, all right, Isurrender.
I'm going to exchange.
And I understand as a Southernwoman that I'm going to get the
best of any deal offered to mebecause that is what Southern
women do.
So I said, if I give you mylife, what are you going to give
me for it?
And so we did this exchangething.
And that was the beginning ofwhat I would consider absolute
surrender.
(18:48):
And he led me to this slimlittle book in my grandmother's
hippie resources.
You know, my parents werehippies.
So they were hippies.
basically redeemed and savedduring the whole jesus movement
and so it's like pea soup greenbook called absolute surrender
by andrew murray and it waslife-changing and it was talking
(19:08):
about this is the power sourcethat you're missing if you go up
and down up and down up and downand as a christian at camps in
the summer that's what happenedi would go on the high and then
i would come on the low and theni would come on high and low
high and low so this was thething that gave me consistent
revival in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah, that's a real thing, the church camp thing,
right?
Mountain top moments, when youcome back down to the valley and
you're back doing all the thingsthat you were doing that you
thought you gave up, right?
That you would probably, I guesswe can use a term that we had
yielded, but not surrendered,right?
Not completely given up.
Wow, I'm taken back a littlebit.
(19:56):
I'm just like, So I wonder thatthis is a symptom that we
probably see in church.
I'm probably guilty of itmyself, where we're doing all
the things, right?
God, I serve on Sundays.
I'm in our prayer rooms.
(20:16):
God, I lead a Bible study.
I'm doing all of these things,and I'm checking every single
box.
God, my life is not yours yet.
So we do this thing here in theLow Life Show, and I think
you've probably heard it.
It's a pause for the cause,right?
This is going to be our pausefor the cause.
You've just inspired that.
So for our listeners out there,if you're listening to this, for
(20:39):
those who might be watchingthis, this is your pause for the
cause, your weekly, daily,monthly, moment-to-moment
challenge.
And it's this.
Search within your life, withinyour areas of service, and
seek...
an answer to truly, is your lifereally given to God?
(21:00):
Or are you just checking a box?
Are you trying to get somethingas an exchange from him, trying
to manipulate the Lord intodoing something that you want?
Or are you just doing what hewants?
Ask yourself this question andbe brave enough, bold enough to
accept whatever it is he tellsyou and to surrender it
completely.
That's your challenge for theweek.
(21:23):
Okay, Kathy, so you've foundthis this moment with god he
spoke to you he said surrenderyou began to surrender now i i'm
sure our listeners are going tobe wondering this question so
i'm going to ask was that a oneand done or do you still find
yourself surrendering things
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
So that's a very good question.
It was like a layer, like onionssort of peeling layer, layer,
layer.
And then all of a sudden, when Ifound that book by Andrew
Murray, it was an absolute.
So absolute surrender is whiteflag.
I'm all in.
So the only wholeheartedresponse to God revealing
(22:05):
himself in our need is surrenderabsolutely.
absolute surrender.
We think of surrender as givingup, throwing in the towel, and
it is in a way, but in thecontext of the creation, us, and
our need for our all-powerfulGod, surrender is the only
(22:26):
option.
So our best strivings, our checkmarks come to nothing in
comparison with His holiness.
There's no partially saved.
There's no partiallysurrendered.
Surrender is the all-in choice.
So that is a one and done.
I'm all in.
(22:47):
So the holy God we serve callsus to surrender our all because
he's worthy of it all.
And grace, grace himself,Christ, ensures that his
purpose, his all, becomes my allin all.
(23:10):
And that's the plan.
And it was the plan from thebeginning.
So at that point, it was nolonger a consistent day to day
thing.
It was all in.
So now it's my posture.
So if I could use that term.
So my posture is when he comesto me and points out something
(23:31):
in my life that maybe Ioverlooked in surrender, or I
have new things in my life, likea book that I've written, or a
place to speak, or my children.
He puts his finger on it, but myposture and my immediate
response is, oh, yes, that'ssurrendered.
It's yours.
It's no longer, oh, I've got tostruggle to give it to you, and
(23:52):
we're going to have to kind ofwrestle a little bit.
No, no, no.
No, no, no.
I'm all in.
It's yours.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Wow.
Wow.
You know, the beauty of that ismy grandfather, he was a
minister.
And there's one thing, if youask any of my cousins, my
siblings, any of his grandkids,anyone that knew him, right?
He was big on the word all,right?
Big on making sure people knewwhat it meant.
He said, all means includingeverything and excluding
(24:19):
nothing.
So when you talk aboutsurrendering our all because
he's worthy of it all, it's likehow many things do we withhold?
When we think we're giving himour all, but then we go home
because we want to watchfootball.
That's not giving him our allthen because we want to reserve
that time that we could bespending with him.
Not to say that we shouldn'tenjoy our leisure times, but if
(24:41):
we have football as a priorityon a Sunday, for example.
Again, not to say that thebattle is only done in church on
Sundays.
But Sunday, for example, that'sfootball season, right?
If we're in a hurry to get outof the sanctuary, as soon as the
pastor says amen, because we'remissing a football game, we're
not giving him our all.
Our attention is alreadydiverted before we walked into
(25:01):
the sanctuary, right?
I want to circle back because Ithink this is very important.
And it just dawned on me that,okay, so you're in the car when
you heard God's voice.
You asked him to have a treefall on you.
So you were, by all intents andpurposes, defeated in that
moment, right?
(25:22):
Here's what's funny.
It was during a storm, right?
And so this, I would say, I wantto speak up to this for those of
our listeners who might be goingthrough storms or, as David
found, right, might findthemselves in a wilderness where
it's like, oh my gosh, God, thissucks.
Everything is terrible.
How would you advise ourlisteners to respond to that?
(25:45):
Now, Obviously I wouldn't, Idon't know me, I wouldn't advise
them to say, to pray for God tohave a tree fall on their car
when they're in their wildernessmoments.
But I'm sure there are some whohave done that.
I know in my, in the beginningwhen I caught fire most
recently, right?
I had a gun to my head and I wasgonna kill myself and I found
(26:07):
myself in a prayer room insteadthe next day.
So prayer obviously hassomething to do with this
wilderness time.
In your wilderness and in yourexperience with that, how would
you advise our listeners who maybe sitting there saying, wow,
I'm in that car right now and Iwant that tree?
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
Yes, and you're right.
That's exactly where I was, insuffering or wilderness.
You can use the same word,suffering and wilderness.
And the interesting thing isthat everybody you meet is
either coming out of sufferingand wilderness or going into a
suffering and wilderness orright in smack in the middle of
one.
Everyone you meet.
Okay, so there's only oneinstruction that we have for
(26:55):
when we're in a wildernessseason, and that is to look for
the mountain of God.
SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
Look
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
for the mountain of God, go there and meet him.
The presence of God is thepurpose of the wilderness.
So when we go through suffering,when we are in a place of
wilderness and struggling,suffering, it's to reveal what
is real.
(27:21):
When I am suffering, when I lostmy child or a miscarriage and my
second child and my firsthusband and I'm struggling and I
have car accident and I break myneck.
Okay, so I'm just listing somethings.
I've been through it.
Okay.
When I'm going through thosethings, I don't care about my
hair.
I don't care about my makeup.
I don't care about my neighbors.
I don't care about anythingexcept what is real and what is
(27:44):
true.
And that's the purpose of thewilderness.
Christ spent a lot of time inthe wilderness.
And I was raised in what I wouldcall sort of prosperity gospel
adjacent.
It wasn't prosperity gospel, butit was kind of adjacent to that.
And so what would happen ispeople would say, if you're
going through suffering orwilderness, God must have done
(28:05):
something to you.
He wants you to learn a lessonor something.
Maybe you have done somethingwrong.
And that can't be true.
I mean, our own stupid mistakescan send us into a wilderness
season.
I'm not saying that it's notpossible.
Evaluate that.
It's possible.
Your own dumb decisions can leadyou to a bad place.
Okay, granted.
(28:26):
But for the vast majority ofpeople, they're in the
wilderness to find God, to layhold of God.
That's what he wants.
And Christ went out in thewilderness.
He did not make dumb decisions.
He went out there for a reasonbecause he could lay hold of
God.
The quiet, the sounds, thebings, the dings, the city life,
(28:47):
the pulls and the tugs, thedisciples arguing, whatever it
is.
He had silence out there so hecould reconnect with God.
That's important.
King David spent an enormousamount of his life in the
wilderness.
And we know God said he's a manafter my own heart.
So there's a reason for you tospend time.
(29:09):
in the wilderness, and it's notnecessary to learn a lesson.
I don't agree with that.
Sometimes you're going to learnlessons.
That's sort of a byproduct ofit.
You're going to get hardened andready for war for what you have
to do next.
That's fine.
But that's not why you're there.
You're there to connect withGod.
(29:30):
And there is a test.
The test is connect with me atthe mountain of God, dwell with
me, And then obey me.
Obedience is the test.
It's not some trick questiontest.
It's an open book test.
God wants us to give him ourall.
And that's why you're there.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
I love the language that you putto that, right?
And it's not, I love how there'sno, There's no doubt in that.
You know, a lot of times peoplewill say, when they're speaking
about something, it sounds morelike they're asking a question,
right?
(30:14):
It's like, God wants you toconnect with him?
And no, God wants you to connectwith him.
He wants a relationship withyou.
He wants to shape you and moldyou, right?
We find that the wilderness isthat equipping place, right?
And we can only become equippedby him in his presence, right?
We can't make it through awilderness.
(30:36):
We can't make it through aseason of challenge, a storm in
life, whatever language a personwants to put to it.
We can't make it through any ofit without him.
And what's funny, and this issomething that's been
highlighted to me lately, isI'll use a term.
Someone said they're goingthrough something, right?
And it's like, when we're goingthrough something, our human
(31:00):
nature causes us to fixate onthe thing.
Right.
Right.
But where God's at is in thegoing through.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
Like he's taking us through those things.
And so I would, yeah, I justappreciate the language you put
to that, the way that you goabout that.
It's just incredible.
And I love that it's a total,absolute surrender in that
season.
Yeah.
right and so that's the advicefor anyone listening under the
(31:33):
sound of my voice at the soundof our voices is that you would
find the courage to be weakbefore god to know that apart
from him that you're nothing andto surrender all don't withhold
anything you know he's a big godum i know in my experience he's
(31:54):
big enough to handle my cursingand yelling and screaming Just
as much as he's big enough toreceive all of my praise and my
worship.
So I would advise anyonelistening to find yourself
within that and to look for yourposture of surrender.
I often tell people there's nohalf-stepping in the kingdom of
(32:20):
heaven.
You're either in or you're out.
So find your posture tosurrender all.
Now, Kathy, you've got anincredible book out there.
It's called Revelationship.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Yeah, we've been talking all around it, basically
God revealing himself for thepurpose of relationship.
It's the whole reason he revealshimself.
He doesn't just reveal himselfbecause he wants to, you know,
show the wizard behind thecurtains or something like that.
He does it because he wants arelationship with us, an
intimate relationship with us.
(32:55):
And the humility that we'retalking about is putting us in
the place to receive that.
So I come to him with a love.
lack, and then I put it beforeHim, and then He always is the
antidote to that lack.
His nature, His character, Hisattributes are the antidote to
(33:15):
that lack.
Unfortunately, as Christians,we've been trained to really
only look for God within thechurch four walls, maybe, and in
the Bible.
And even that, we're kind of intraining for our whole lives,
right?
So, there's not room for peoplewho don't experience god inside
(33:36):
the four walls of a church andquite frankly the scriptures
weren't meant to be read justinside of a synagogue they were
meant to be read outside and sogoing outside in nature to
experience god is vital and it'sa sacred pathway to experiencing
the revelation of god we'retalking about suffering
suffering is definitely one ofthe ways that god reveals
(33:59):
himself now when we sufferbecause we haven't been trained,
okay?
We lean away from God.
And we're like, oh, how dareyou?
I'm bitter.
I'm upset.
I don't like the fact that I'mhere.
Grumble mumble.
Okay.
Just like the Israelites did.
Okay.
There's a natural humanresponse, but the supernatural
response is to lean into God.
(34:21):
And then when we lean into God,he reveals himself more.
Wrestling with God is awonderful sacred pathway, AKA
Jacob, right?
So he wrestles with God.
And we often have to wrestlesomething to the ground, uh, a
deep question or something wehave to relinquish to him.
(34:42):
You're talking about surrender.
It sometimes takes a bit ofwrestling, and it should.
Like, that is wonderful that hewould wrestle with us.
I mean, most gods, little ggods, are at the top of some
hill, and you've got to do allthis stuff to ascend to him.
He comes down sometimes.
to dwell with us and to shape usand change us and just by being
(35:07):
close to him we're changed byhim and so wrestling with him is
legit okay and there's otherways that god reveals us we had
to stop i mean because we justkept going like there's there's
several there's like 15 chaptersso god revealing himself in
about 15 different ways but healso reveals himself in art and
in music and you name it sothere are many ways that god
(35:30):
reveals himself we just have notbeen trained to see them so the
book is meant for people whoneed to experience expand a bit
of how they see God moving intheir life and in their story so
that once their eyes aretrained, it's almost like
glasses that you put on, theybegin to see Him moving in their
(35:50):
story and they recognize God isreally here.
He is present.
He is moving.
He is shaping.
He is changing.
And because we're not trained tosee it and we only see the
people on some platform ascalled, you know, those are the
people who are called, then it'sa travesty that we don't realize
(36:13):
that we are called.
We're called to do what I saidin the prayer.
We're called to reverse thecurse.
That's what we're supposed to bedoing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
Well, that's powerful.
That is powerful.
I mean, you think about thereality of that in today's
church, right?
where it's the person at thepulpit, right?
It's the person that's at thefront of the room, not the
person in the back.
It's not the person in themiddle of the queue, right?
It's always someone that's inthe spotlight.
(36:48):
And it's almost like inanswering our calling, right?
We're able to shed whatevernotion that those who came
before us may have created bytradition or religiosity or
legalism, right?
We're able to shed those thingsbecause at the end of the day,
(37:10):
God doesn't play favorites.
Each one of us individually andcollectively is his favorite,
right?
It's not because, you know,we're all called, it's like
we're all called to differentthings, right?
It's the body of Christ.
The church is the body and it'smany parts, right?
many functions, right?
(37:31):
Like I can't take my left armand use it as my right leg,
right?
So I think that's very good.
You dispel something that's kindof prevalent, right?
Where people might say, theremight be someone out there who's
saying, well, I can't speak likethat.
I don't have that kind oflanguage.
Or I've heard people oftentimessay, oh, I don't want to pray
(37:53):
because I don't know that muchscripture and my words, they get
all mumbled up or whatever thecase may be, right?
We tend to listen to the lies ofthe enemy and stifle ourselves
with this idea or thismisconception that we can't be
just as called as the nextperson because we're too busy, I
(38:14):
guess, looking to the right andto the left instead of focusing
and fixing our gaze on him.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
right.
That's beautiful, Kathy.
If our listeners would like topick up a copy of that book,
where can they find it?
SPEAKER_02 (38:26):
The best place to get it is either at
revelationship.net, so it'srevelationship, just like it
sounds,.net.
The book is there.
There's a free devotional thatthey can download if they get
the book.
But there's also a not-freedevotional.
It's 250-plus pages, beautifulphotography, immersive QR codes
(38:51):
with worship songs, the wholething.
It's meant to be an immersiveexperience.
I have other resources there,including a blog I've been
writing for the past, I think,10 years or something like that.
And a lot of people, they willsend me questions, hard
questions, and even share withme their prayer needs.
And they can do so.
They can connect with me atrevelationship.net.
(39:11):
They can also get it on Amazon,but it's hard to find because
Amazon thinks revelationshipisn't a word.
So that's always fun.
You have to type inrevelationship and Kathy
Garland, and then you'll findit.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
Got it.
That's awesome.
You heard that folks,revelationship.net, where you
can connect, get all theresources you need, want, and
possibly would want in surrenderand finding that relationship,
that intimate relationship inthe way that Kathy found it.
She's laid out a path for everyone of you to make it a little
bit easier.
So maybe you don't have to prayfor that tree to fall on your
(39:46):
car.
Kathy, I want to end with onelast thing.
If there's a bit of advice thatyou could give our listeners,
that might make surrender easierfor them.
I know we all struggle with, Imean, identity is a hot topic in
the world today.
So we struggle with that.
We struggle with receiving whowe are, our identities in
Christ, knowing who he is,because we get to a flip of a
(40:12):
coin, decide whether we're oneor the other these days, which
that's a whole differentconversation.
But if you could give a bit ofadvice to our listeners today,
on maybe a step, a practicalstep, or something that might
make it easier, a perspectiveeven, to make it easier for them
to surrender and begin thatwalk, what would you give them?
SPEAKER_02 (40:35):
Well, I think I would definitely say I'm happy
to share.
I'll give you the notes, thelink to some notes on it.
But I have a devotional.
It's called Known.
It's coming out soon, butthere's a free link.
I'll give you that.
I would share that with thembecause being known...
This is what we're talkingabout.
The intimacy is knowing andbeing known.
(40:57):
And the free resource I can giveyou goes through 32 names of
God, such as El Roy, which youheard me use earlier, or Abba,
which is father, which youreferred to, or Hashepet, the
Lord, our just judge.
You know, these are things thatare.
important for us to know aboutGod because they define who we
(41:20):
are.
And I'm happy to share that withpeople.
That would be maybe one adviceas a resource that I could share
with people.
The advice also, other thanlooking for the mountain of God,
is I would say that you are notdisqualified.
That's almost like a word ofknowledge for your listeners.
There are people who arelistening to your show, to our
(41:43):
conversation, and they have madesome not-so-wise decisions.
And I've been there.
I've done that too.
I have a couple of t-shirts forthat.
But the point is that whatyou've done does not disqualify
you from being called.
UNKNOWN (42:00):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
There are sins that are particularly heinous that
pastors lately have beencommitting, and they're falling
from grace, and they shouldn'tbe pastors again.
They're still called, and whenthey repent and they surrender
and they return to Christ, theywill have a place in the body of
Christ.
You were just talking aboutthat.
Every one of us has a calling,and it's not just a calling on
(42:23):
the stage or a calling withinthe church.
It's multiple callings.
Fuchsia Pickett taught thatwe're called to fellowship.
We're called to be brothers andsisters in Christ.
And there's something like, Idon't know, she said something
like 60 different callings inthe Bible.
We're all called.
And what we've done does notdisqualify us from that calling.
(42:45):
The gifts and callings of Godare without repentance is what
the old King James Version says,which means it can't be taken
back.
There's no take backs.
So he gives us those callings.
He calls us.
He knits us together.
in a mother's womb, and thesegifts and callings are knitted
together with who we are.
And if you've made some baddecisions, it's very easy to
(43:06):
return to Christ.
Simply say, I'm sorry I madethose decisions, and then turn
back and do the things that youdid at the beginning.
That's what Christ gives us.
He says, return to your firstlove.
Do those things that you did inthe beginning.
Read the Bible as a love letterto you, and to understand the a
(43:27):
God who's revealed in thosewords.
Pray, sit in silence.
If you don't know what to say,Sit in silence.
There's a whole lot of presenceof God in silence, more than
even just rattling off the soapmethod or the prayer to-do list.
He's there.
He promises He's already there.
(43:47):
You just haven't sensed Him in awhile.
That's okay.
He'll return.
The sense of His presence willreturn.
He's always been there.
He's never left.
He promises never to leave.
So that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Amen.
Well, his promises are yes andamen, and he is faithful to
complete.
Kathy, I want to thank you.
You've shared a lot of wisdom, alot of knowledge.
I want to thank you for beingunfiltered and unhindered.
Honestly, those are the twowords that come to mind
immediately, because you're notgoing to be restrained from
(44:25):
letting people know exactly whatit is.
You know this to be true becauseyou've experienced these things.
So it's not like anybody cancome and say, ah, that didn't
happen.
You know it to be true.
You lived it, right?
So I want to thank you for that.
As we close, I want to do you anhonor now.
Since you set the table for usin prayer, I would love to pray
with you.
And then we will close.
(44:46):
Heavenly Father, God, you are sogood to us.
You long to be known and madeknown.
You long for us to know thatyou're there, that you're with
us, that you won't forsake us.
God, what a privilege and apleasure it is to serve you, to
(45:07):
know you, to have a relationshipwith you, Father, that you would
cause us to see you in the waysthat we need to see you, that
would get us to where you wantus to go.
We thank you for that, Father.
Right now, I thank you forKathy.
I thank you for her life.
God, I thank you that instead ofa tree falling on her car, you
spoke and asked her tosurrender.
(45:27):
And as a result of that, God,you've given her such a gift and
a word of knowledge, God, andexperience that she's able to
share right now with myself andwith those who are listening.
Father, I ask right now forthose who are listening, God,
the listener, would you showthem who you are today?
Would you help them fix theireyes on, as Kathy called it, the
(45:48):
mountaintop of God, where theywould find you?
God, would you help them torealize the grace that you so
freely give, that you are a Godwho comes down to our level in
compassion, not out of pity.
God, that we don't have tostrive in the kingdom.
We just have to relax,surrender, and receive.
Father, so I ask you today thatyou would do that, that you
(46:11):
would bless our listener, thatyou would bless Kathy in all
that she does, bless her family.
God, bless everyone andeverything that comes from book
as a result of the work thatyou've done in her life and your
imminent and prevalent hand,that intimacy that you have with
her, Lord.
Bless each and every personunder the sound of my voice
right now, God.
(46:32):
I ask that you would help them,that this conversation would
draw them just one step closerto you, and that the end result
would be the fulfillment of yourprayer, Jesus, that we would all
be one, knitted together inlove, one, just as you and the
Father are one.
We praise you today.
We give you all glory in themighty name of Jesus.
(46:54):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (46:55):
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Well, that has been another episode of The Low Life
Show.
Stay tuned.
We've got another guest comingon the next episode.
So until then, stay low, stayblessed, and stay ready for the
next episode of The Low LifeShow.
Peace.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
Thank you.
Welcome to The Low Life Show, a space where we have
conversations about thestruggles of life, where we
declare war on pride and walkhumbly into renewed living with
a surrendered heart, where wetake our past failures and turn
them into a roadmap for you tolive in peace and living the low
life.
Whether you're working throughpersonal struggles or simply
(00:23):
seeking a fresh perspective,this podcast will inspire and
equip you to live low and letGod lift you up.
I'm your host, DL the Lowlife, areformed professional dirtbag
who's here to tell you that Inow live a life of peace
transformed through humility.
Join me.
Let's get low.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Lord Jesus, we are so grateful that your promises
that you will never leave us,you will never forsake us, no
matter what we face.
And Lord, as you lead us throughthe journey, whether it's to
rescue us from Egypt and by yourown power, by your own might, by
your own wings, you draw us outof Egypt.
(01:07):
You do what you have to do inorder to win us.
You bring us out into the desertwhere you meet us and you equip
us and then you send us into thepromised land, but you go with
us into the promised land.
And then we can take hold of allthe things that you have
promised thriving in yourpresence because it's not about
(01:28):
the land.
It's not about our goals.
It's not about our purpose.
purpose here on earth it's aboutyour presence and that is the
purpose pouring out yourpresence on this earth reversing
what the fall did so that onceagain like we see in the story
of revelation at the very endwhen you announce finally the
(01:52):
dwelling of God is with man thatis what we're after the dwelling
of God is with man so Lord weare so grateful that you have
orchestrated everything singleperson's story in order to pour
out your presence and reversethe curse thank you for that in
jesus name
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
jesus name amen thank you thank you well welcome
to the lowlife show i am yourhost dl the lowlife and today we
have a special guest we havemiss kathy garland kathy is the
author of revelationship she isa prayer warrior a lover of
theology a suffering coach adeliverance advocate speaker
writer, chief marketing officer,a wife, a mother, and a lover
(02:37):
and friend of Jesus.
Kathy, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
This is going to be great.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
I agree.
Well, let's just dive right in.
Tell us about yourself, Kathy.
Tell us where your journeystarted and how this came about,
where you've become this personthat I see before me today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
You know, I think what people would love to know
mostly is that I grew up inchurch and I am a pastor's kid,
but I'm not one of thosepastor's kids.
I did not.
You laugh.
Everybody laughs because we knowwhat I'm talking about.
I have been raised by trulyauthentic pastors.
people who love God and lovepeople.
(03:17):
And all six of us kids and laterthree more adopted kids, nine of
us in total, love God and lovepeople.
And I think that's a testamentto my parents' faith.
But as I grew up in the church,it was hard.
I will admit, there were peoplewho wronged me, wronged my
family.
(03:37):
Church abuse is a real thingbecause church attracts people
who are broken, and brokenpeople break people.
I mean, that's what they do.
So when I was about 13 or so, Ireally began to question whether
or not this form of religion,aka Christianity, was what I
(04:00):
wanted to pursue.
And so I went to my dad and mymom and said, I'm not sure this
thing is for me.
And instead of panicking, whichI think a lot of people would
do, they saw it as a healthyform of growing up and maturing.
So they, my dad, took me to thelibrary and we checked out a
stack of books that was as tallas I was.
(04:22):
I mean, it was massive.
And I studied all the majorreligions and quite a few of the
non-major religions to assesslogically, reasonably, is this a
better way?
And at the end of my 13th year,I came to the conclusion that
this was the best way And that,by far, and that the Jesus who
(04:44):
was revealed in Scripture wasreal, and he wanted a
relationship with meparticularly.
And that's important, becausewhen you're growing up in
church, you're singing, Jesusloves me, Jesus loves the whole
wide world, everybody in it.
You get this sort of like...
loosey-goosey sort of lovethat's just kind of poured out
on the earth.
(05:04):
But does he actually love me?
Does he call me?
Does he want me?
And so that...
personal relationship began thereconstruction journey where I
disregarded what I would calltraditions made of men sometimes
and held and clinged to thethings that I could prove were
(05:25):
real, what Christ said himself,what he revealed in the Old
Testament, etc.
So that's kind of myreconstruction journey, mostly
looking for the revelation ofwho God is because My identity
is completely based on who Heis.
(05:47):
And I think in church we used tohave a saying, and I think it
was stupid really just to goaround saying it.
We said, know who you are inChrist.
I didn't know who God was inorder to know who I was.
So it became absolutelynecessary to know who He is.
If He is the God who sees me, ElRoy, That's what Elroy means.
(06:11):
It's a Hebrew word, the God whosees me.
Hagar said it.
You are the God who sees me.
If he is the God who sees me,then I am seen.
That is my identity.
And so a lot of people are goingaround with a clipboard trying
to check off all their identityboxes when they've lost the very
root of their identity, which isin who God is and who he says he
(06:36):
is in that revelation.
So that was my reconstructionjourney.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
I think it's very important tonote that your parents didn't
try to stop you from finding Godin the way that you did, right?
A lot of times we find in thechurches, oh, you can't do that
because then that's worshipingother idols.
That's seeking idols.
That's doing something that isnot pleasing to God.
(07:02):
But if it's a journey and a paththat helps you find him and a
relationship with him, then it'slike the end justifies the
means, right?
As you were speaking, I wasreminded of that song, Jesus
loves me, this I know, right?
And I feel like that's exactlywhat you were talking about.
(07:22):
It's for the Bible tells me so,but the relationship you have
with him is Jesus loves me, thisI know, because he himself told
me so.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
Right.
And that's, that's a beautifulthing.
So walking through the, thedeconstruction, right.
What did that look like?
I mean, was there, were there,there would have, I would assume
because there's a lot ofattractive things in these
different religions, right?
Ooh, this one allows me to dothis.
(07:51):
This one allows me to do that.
Or was your sole purpose just tofind Jesus?
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
I think my sole purpose was to find what was
true.
So real things, true thingsmatch real things.
And so I needed to know what wasreal.
And part of the reason that alot of people kind of fall away
from the church is becausethey've experienced what is not
real within the church.
So they'll experience hypocrisyor they'll experience keeping
(08:17):
the law in order to getholiness.
But holiness is not aboutkeeping the law.
Holiness is an opportunity todwell with God.
That's what's real.
He says, be holy.
for I am holy, because I want todwell with you.
Not because He doesn't want youto eat shrimp.
He wants you to be with Him, andHe can't be with you if you're
(08:39):
hiking up your skirts, as theBible uses the sort of whoring
techno words, hiking your skirtschasing after everything the
world offers or elbowing yourway to every freedom it wasn't
about freedom so I did look atall the different religions and
consider you know okay this saysthis and this says this what's
(09:00):
true and there were somereligions that were really kind
of easy to get rid of so andtotally disregard for example
the Muslim religion as a womanthat is pretty out for me
because you know I'm going todrive and we're not doing all
the things so that's That was apretty quick elimination.
But you're right.
Buddhism has some things to it.
(09:21):
You're kind of like, oh, okay.
But you dig a little surface andyou find out, this is not real.
It's not actually reality.
And so I don't want somethingthat I have to switch what's
real and force a non-reality onmy reality.
That's the problem with Buddhismin most cases.
(09:42):
And you said, you know, myparents didn't panic.
But the reason they didn't panicis because the Bible says if you
ask, seek, and knock, you'regoing to find him.
That's what he guarantees.
And deconstruction, I think...
think right now people areafraid of it they don't like
this word they're not sure howto define it but deconstruction
is simply taking things down tothe studs the foundation and the
(10:06):
the support systems that arereal the rest of it is facade
and it's it's a time-honoredchristian tradition martin
luther deconstructedCatholicism.
And quite frankly, the disciplesdeconstructed Judaism.
So this is a time-honoredtradition, and I think people
(10:26):
are afraid of it mostly becausethey haven't answered the deep
questions within themselves.
So they're...
not sure they're going to beable to answer their kids'
questions.
But I highly recommend that theydo it together and train
children like I have kids.
I'm training them to askquestions because I can't be
(10:47):
afraid of questions becausewhat's real can withstand
questioning.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Amen.
Amen.
Yeah.
And as you were talking and youhit on it right as I was hearing
it in my head was train up achild in the way he or she
should go.
And you found yourself on thispath.
So it's like you're allowingthem the space to discover
Christ revealed to them.
(11:13):
And I love the authenticity ofwhat you're talking about.
It's like, that was easy to justshed that one.
This one does sound good, butit's...
And at the end of the day, Jesussays he's the truth.
So what you find is...
is that right so if you lookthrough this this it's an
(11:34):
interesting thing i saw thisquote the other day and they
talked about this guy wastalking about you know uh he had
studied like you all thereligions right and what he
found was that though not all ofthe religions call jesus who we
call him they all revere him sothere's something to that right
(11:55):
Like he is the only thing thatevery religious group has a
respect for.
He's the only person that theywill revere.
They might say, oh, he was justa good person, but they're still
calling him good.
They might say he was just aprophet, but they're still
giving him the office ofprophet, right?
So I love that you were able togo through all of those things.
(12:16):
And what came out at the end waslike you said, you were
searching for truth and youfound the truth.
You found Jesus, right?
And so that's a, That's abeautiful thing.
And it leads me to wonder,surrender is a very important
thing in life.
We've discussed this a littlebit.
It's very important.
(12:36):
I've seen with what you teach,with how you live, with what
your foundation is, and thesurrendering, what I'm seeing is
like surrendering of identitythat we literally have to do,
right?
Like who we've formed ourselvesto be in exchange for who he
(12:56):
says we are, right?
So let's talk a little bit moreabout that.
What was that surrendering likefor you?
So you've gone through all ofthese things and you've
basically surrendered thenotions that you were taught,
right?
In lieu of a pursuit of who heis, right?
What happened after that?
Let's talk through thesurrendering in that and then
how that felt.
There may have been a level ofshock.
(13:17):
I mean, I know for me, when I,as I started growing into this
intimacy with the father, I findthat a lot of the things that I
was taught were not right.
Not to say that they were notwell-intended, not to say that
they weren't out of love, butthey are just, it's not who he
is, right?
(13:38):
And I feel like it forced me toalmost be trapped in a box and
feel as though I couldn't be mebecause of these things.
So what was that like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
I agree.
I mean, growing up in a Southerncharismatic church, sometimes
fads and laws, I'll call themlaws, will kind of blow through
the church.
But, you know, one of them wasthat women had to wear skirts.
And I was like, what?
where's that in the Bible, youknow?
(14:12):
And I am a Bible nerd now.
So, I mean, I'm aself-proclaimed Bible nerd.
So, I'm asking my dad, where isthat in the Bible?
Why do I have to do this?
This seems to be this thing thateverybody's assuming is modest,
you know, or something.
And like, oh, yeah, you know, itwas the time when they were
saying things like modest ishottest.
And I hate that saying with theloathing that I cannot tell you.
(14:36):
So, I asked him, where is thisin the Bible?
And he said, It's not.
Then I said, I'm out.
I'm not doing it.
So legalism is keeping a set ofrules that God does not require
from you and assuming it's goingto work in you holiness.
Holiness is only worked out oneway.
(14:56):
Holiness is worked out byproximity with the Holy Spirit.
So I have the dwelling of theHoly Spirit within me.
I spend time with the HolySpirit.
We become intimate like you'retalking about.
Holiness is brought out fromwithin, out.
And so I had to reallyunderstand and grab onto that
(15:19):
intimacy.
What happened for me was as Iprogressed in leadership in the
church, and I found myselfmarried very young.
Again, it was the purityculture, and we didn't date, and
I married very young, and then Ifound myself divorced, and I
found myself with twomiscarriages, and all the things
(15:41):
that I was not expecting.
Like, you know, when you dotyour I's and cross your T's, you
assume that you're gonna getsomething like the American
dream with the picket fences andthe kids and the chickens, but
you don't, not always.
And so I was heartbroken andjust trying to find my way to
what God wanted me to do.
(16:01):
And I was driving home inAtlanta when one of those
storms, if you have ever been inAtlanta, they just pop up and
you're stuck And it's just likedownpouring.
You can't see in front of you.
And I was very...
down from what I wasexperiencing I had a job in the
Hollywood industry marketingthat was kind of being birthed
(16:22):
in Atlanta and I just come froma party and it just was like
look you know and I just feltwhy am I here and I don't like
what I'm doing I don't love thisI'm I'm still doing my devotions
I'm still attending church threetimes a week at least I'm still
participating in ministry okayI'm doing all the things and And
(16:45):
I was just driving home withthis blah.
And I said, Lord, will you justmake a tree fall on top of me
and just take me home?
And he spoke.
out of my passenger seat of mycar.
I had never heard his audiblevoice before.
I'd heard it in my heart.
(17:06):
I was pretty sure it was him.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't,the whole thing.
But it was so startling, Ialmost crashed into a tree.
Okay, so that's how audible itwas.
And I pulled over on the side ofthe road.
And I had a come-to-Jesusmoment, as we call it, in the
South.
And I said, we're going to havea conversation because I've been
(17:28):
serving you all these years, andyou've never once spoken like
this to me before.
And after that, he didn't speakout loud, but I didn't need to
hear him out loud because now Iknew which voice in my head was
his.
And he said the words.
Here's the words he said to me.
He said, if you don't want yourlife, I do.
I've been serving him.
(17:48):
I assumed my life was his.
What?
So I said, okay, we're going tohave a conversation.
And he said, I want you tosurrender to me.
And he put in the word, the nameof my boyfriend.
And so I said, done.
He said, I want you to surrenderme your job.
I said, done.
And so he would ask me for thesethings.
(18:08):
I grew up in church where peoplewould say, yield.
which is a traffic term, and Ihave no idea what that means.
I am a great driver, but I stilldon't know what yield means
other than in traffic.
So people would say, oh, Iyielded that to the Lord, but
then I took it back.
I'm like, well, That's not veryefficient.
(18:28):
So I said, all right, Isurrender.
I'm going to exchange.
And I understand as a Southernwoman that I'm going to get the
best of any deal offered to mebecause that is what Southern
women do.
So I said, if I give you mylife, what are you going to give
me for it?
And so we did this exchangething.
And that was the beginning ofwhat I would consider absolute
surrender.
(18:48):
And he led me to this slimlittle book in my grandmother's
hippie resources.
You know, my parents werehippies.
So they were hippies.
basically redeemed and savedduring the whole jesus movement
and so it's like pea soup greenbook called absolute surrender
by andrew murray and it waslife-changing and it was talking
(19:08):
about this is the power sourcethat you're missing if you go up
and down up and down up and downand as a christian at camps in
the summer that's what happenedi would go on the high and then
i would come on the low and theni would come on high and low
high and low so this was thething that gave me consistent
revival in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah, that's a real thing, the church camp thing,
right?
Mountain top moments, when youcome back down to the valley and
you're back doing all the thingsthat you were doing that you
thought you gave up, right?
That you would probably, I guesswe can use a term that we had
yielded, but not surrendered,right?
Not completely given up.
Wow, I'm taken back a littlebit.
(19:56):
I'm just like, So I wonder thatthis is a symptom that we
probably see in church.
I'm probably guilty of itmyself, where we're doing all
the things, right?
God, I serve on Sundays.
I'm in our prayer rooms.
(20:16):
God, I lead a Bible study.
I'm doing all of these things,and I'm checking every single
box.
God, my life is not yours yet.
So we do this thing here in theLow Life Show, and I think
you've probably heard it.
It's a pause for the cause,right?
This is going to be our pausefor the cause.
You've just inspired that.
So for our listeners out there,if you're listening to this, for
(20:39):
those who might be watchingthis, this is your pause for the
cause, your weekly, daily,monthly, moment-to-moment
challenge.
And it's this.
Search within your life, withinyour areas of service, and
seek...
an answer to truly, is your lifereally given to God?
(21:00):
Or are you just checking a box?
Are you trying to get somethingas an exchange from him, trying
to manipulate the Lord intodoing something that you want?
Or are you just doing what hewants?
Ask yourself this question andbe brave enough, bold enough to
accept whatever it is he tellsyou and to surrender it
completely.
That's your challenge for theweek.
(21:23):
Okay, Kathy, so you've foundthis this moment with god he
spoke to you he said surrenderyou began to surrender now i i'm
sure our listeners are going tobe wondering this question so
i'm going to ask was that a oneand done or do you still find
yourself surrendering things
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
So that's a very good question.
It was like a layer, like onionssort of peeling layer, layer,
layer.
And then all of a sudden, when Ifound that book by Andrew
Murray, it was an absolute.
So absolute surrender is whiteflag.
I'm all in.
So the only wholeheartedresponse to God revealing
(22:05):
himself in our need is surrenderabsolutely.
absolute surrender.
We think of surrender as givingup, throwing in the towel, and
it is in a way, but in thecontext of the creation, us, and
our need for our all-powerfulGod, surrender is the only
(22:26):
option.
So our best strivings, our checkmarks come to nothing in
comparison with His holiness.
There's no partially saved.
There's no partiallysurrendered.
Surrender is the all-in choice.
So that is a one and done.
I'm all in.
(22:47):
So the holy God we serve callsus to surrender our all because
he's worthy of it all.
And grace, grace himself,Christ, ensures that his
purpose, his all, becomes my allin all.
(23:10):
And that's the plan.
And it was the plan from thebeginning.
So at that point, it was nolonger a consistent day to day
thing.
It was all in.
So now it's my posture.
So if I could use that term.
So my posture is when he comesto me and points out something
(23:31):
in my life that maybe Ioverlooked in surrender, or I
have new things in my life, likea book that I've written, or a
place to speak, or my children.
He puts his finger on it, but myposture and my immediate
response is, oh, yes, that'ssurrendered.
It's yours.
It's no longer, oh, I've got tostruggle to give it to you, and
(23:52):
we're going to have to kind ofwrestle a little bit.
No, no, no.
No, no, no.
I'm all in.
It's yours.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Wow.
Wow.
You know, the beauty of that ismy grandfather, he was a
minister.
And there's one thing, if youask any of my cousins, my
siblings, any of his grandkids,anyone that knew him, right?
He was big on the word all,right?
Big on making sure people knewwhat it meant.
He said, all means includingeverything and excluding
(24:19):
nothing.
So when you talk aboutsurrendering our all because
he's worthy of it all, it's likehow many things do we withhold?
When we think we're giving himour all, but then we go home
because we want to watchfootball.
That's not giving him our allthen because we want to reserve
that time that we could bespending with him.
Not to say that we shouldn'tenjoy our leisure times, but if
(24:41):
we have football as a priorityon a Sunday, for example.
Again, not to say that thebattle is only done in church on
Sundays.
But Sunday, for example, that'sfootball season, right?
If we're in a hurry to get outof the sanctuary, as soon as the
pastor says amen, because we'remissing a football game, we're
not giving him our all.
Our attention is alreadydiverted before we walked into
(25:01):
the sanctuary, right?
I want to circle back because Ithink this is very important.
And it just dawned on me that,okay, so you're in the car when
you heard God's voice.
You asked him to have a treefall on you.
So you were, by all intents andpurposes, defeated in that
moment, right?
(25:22):
Here's what's funny.
It was during a storm, right?
And so this, I would say, I wantto speak up to this for those of
our listeners who might be goingthrough storms or, as David
found, right, might findthemselves in a wilderness where
it's like, oh my gosh, God, thissucks.
Everything is terrible.
How would you advise ourlisteners to respond to that?
(25:45):
Now, Obviously I wouldn't, Idon't know me, I wouldn't advise
them to say, to pray for God tohave a tree fall on their car
when they're in their wildernessmoments.
But I'm sure there are some whohave done that.
I know in my, in the beginningwhen I caught fire most
recently, right?
I had a gun to my head and I wasgonna kill myself and I found
(26:07):
myself in a prayer room insteadthe next day.
So prayer obviously hassomething to do with this
wilderness time.
In your wilderness and in yourexperience with that, how would
you advise our listeners who maybe sitting there saying, wow,
I'm in that car right now and Iwant that tree?
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
Yes, and you're right.
That's exactly where I was, insuffering or wilderness.
You can use the same word,suffering and wilderness.
And the interesting thing isthat everybody you meet is
either coming out of sufferingand wilderness or going into a
suffering and wilderness orright in smack in the middle of
one.
Everyone you meet.
Okay, so there's only oneinstruction that we have for
(26:55):
when we're in a wildernessseason, and that is to look for
the mountain of God.
SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
Look
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
for the mountain of God, go there and meet him.
The presence of God is thepurpose of the wilderness.
So when we go through suffering,when we are in a place of
wilderness and struggling,suffering, it's to reveal what
is real.
(27:21):
When I am suffering, when I lostmy child or a miscarriage and my
second child and my firsthusband and I'm struggling and I
have car accident and I break myneck.
Okay, so I'm just listing somethings.
I've been through it.
Okay.
When I'm going through thosethings, I don't care about my
hair.
I don't care about my makeup.
I don't care about my neighbors.
I don't care about anythingexcept what is real and what is
(27:44):
true.
And that's the purpose of thewilderness.
Christ spent a lot of time inthe wilderness.
And I was raised in what I wouldcall sort of prosperity gospel
adjacent.
It wasn't prosperity gospel, butit was kind of adjacent to that.
And so what would happen ispeople would say, if you're
going through suffering orwilderness, God must have done
(28:05):
something to you.
He wants you to learn a lessonor something.
Maybe you have done somethingwrong.
And that can't be true.
I mean, our own stupid mistakescan send us into a wilderness
season.
I'm not saying that it's notpossible.
Evaluate that.
It's possible.
Your own dumb decisions can leadyou to a bad place.
Okay, granted.
(28:26):
But for the vast majority ofpeople, they're in the
wilderness to find God, to layhold of God.
That's what he wants.
And Christ went out in thewilderness.
He did not make dumb decisions.
He went out there for a reasonbecause he could lay hold of
God.
The quiet, the sounds, thebings, the dings, the city life,
(28:47):
the pulls and the tugs, thedisciples arguing, whatever it
is.
He had silence out there so hecould reconnect with God.
That's important.
King David spent an enormousamount of his life in the
wilderness.
And we know God said he's a manafter my own heart.
So there's a reason for you tospend time.
(29:09):
in the wilderness, and it's notnecessary to learn a lesson.
I don't agree with that.
Sometimes you're going to learnlessons.
That's sort of a byproduct ofit.
You're going to get hardened andready for war for what you have
to do next.
That's fine.
But that's not why you're there.
You're there to connect withGod.
(29:30):
And there is a test.
The test is connect with me atthe mountain of God, dwell with
me, And then obey me.
Obedience is the test.
It's not some trick questiontest.
It's an open book test.
God wants us to give him ourall.
And that's why you're there.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
I love the language that you putto that, right?
And it's not, I love how there'sno, There's no doubt in that.
You know, a lot of times peoplewill say, when they're speaking
about something, it sounds morelike they're asking a question,
right?
(30:14):
It's like, God wants you toconnect with him?
And no, God wants you to connectwith him.
He wants a relationship withyou.
He wants to shape you and moldyou, right?
We find that the wilderness isthat equipping place, right?
And we can only become equippedby him in his presence, right?
We can't make it through awilderness.
(30:36):
We can't make it through aseason of challenge, a storm in
life, whatever language a personwants to put to it.
We can't make it through any ofit without him.
And what's funny, and this issomething that's been
highlighted to me lately, isI'll use a term.
Someone said they're goingthrough something, right?
And it's like, when we're goingthrough something, our human
(31:00):
nature causes us to fixate onthe thing.
Right.
Right.
But where God's at is in thegoing through.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
Like he's taking us through those things.
And so I would, yeah, I justappreciate the language you put
to that, the way that you goabout that.
It's just incredible.
And I love that it's a total,absolute surrender in that
season.
Yeah.
right and so that's the advicefor anyone listening under the
(31:33):
sound of my voice at the soundof our voices is that you would
find the courage to be weakbefore god to know that apart
from him that you're nothing andto surrender all don't withhold
anything you know he's a big godum i know in my experience he's
(31:54):
big enough to handle my cursingand yelling and screaming Just
as much as he's big enough toreceive all of my praise and my
worship.
So I would advise anyonelistening to find yourself
within that and to look for yourposture of surrender.
I often tell people there's nohalf-stepping in the kingdom of
(32:20):
heaven.
You're either in or you're out.
So find your posture tosurrender all.
Now, Kathy, you've got anincredible book out there.
It's called Revelationship.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:33):
Yeah, we've been talking all around it, basically
God revealing himself for thepurpose of relationship.
It's the whole reason he revealshimself.
He doesn't just reveal himselfbecause he wants to, you know,
show the wizard behind thecurtains or something like that.
He does it because he wants arelationship with us, an
intimate relationship with us.
(32:55):
And the humility that we'retalking about is putting us in
the place to receive that.
So I come to him with a love.
lack, and then I put it beforeHim, and then He always is the
antidote to that lack.
His nature, His character, Hisattributes are the antidote to
(33:15):
that lack.
Unfortunately, as Christians,we've been trained to really
only look for God within thechurch four walls, maybe, and in
the Bible.
And even that, we're kind of intraining for our whole lives,
right?
So, there's not room for peoplewho don't experience god inside
(33:36):
the four walls of a church andquite frankly the scriptures
weren't meant to be read justinside of a synagogue they were
meant to be read outside and sogoing outside in nature to
experience god is vital and it'sa sacred pathway to experiencing
the revelation of god we'retalking about suffering
suffering is definitely one ofthe ways that god reveals
(33:59):
himself now when we sufferbecause we haven't been trained,
okay?
We lean away from God.
And we're like, oh, how dareyou?
I'm bitter.
I'm upset.
I don't like the fact that I'mhere.
Grumble mumble.
Okay.
Just like the Israelites did.
Okay.
There's a natural humanresponse, but the supernatural
response is to lean into God.
(34:21):
And then when we lean into God,he reveals himself more.
Wrestling with God is awonderful sacred pathway, AKA
Jacob, right?
So he wrestles with God.
And we often have to wrestlesomething to the ground, uh, a
deep question or something wehave to relinquish to him.
(34:42):
You're talking about surrender.
It sometimes takes a bit ofwrestling, and it should.
Like, that is wonderful that hewould wrestle with us.
I mean, most gods, little ggods, are at the top of some
hill, and you've got to do allthis stuff to ascend to him.
He comes down sometimes.
to dwell with us and to shape usand change us and just by being
(35:07):
close to him we're changed byhim and so wrestling with him is
legit okay and there's otherways that god reveals us we had
to stop i mean because we justkept going like there's there's
several there's like 15 chaptersso god revealing himself in
about 15 different ways but healso reveals himself in art and
in music and you name it sothere are many ways that god
(35:30):
reveals himself we just have notbeen trained to see them so the
book is meant for people whoneed to experience expand a bit
of how they see God moving intheir life and in their story so
that once their eyes aretrained, it's almost like
glasses that you put on, theybegin to see Him moving in their
(35:50):
story and they recognize God isreally here.
He is present.
He is moving.
He is shaping.
He is changing.
And because we're not trained tosee it and we only see the
people on some platform ascalled, you know, those are the
people who are called, then it'sa travesty that we don't realize
(36:13):
that we are called.
We're called to do what I saidin the prayer.
We're called to reverse thecurse.
That's what we're supposed to bedoing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
Well, that's powerful.
That is powerful.
I mean, you think about thereality of that in today's
church, right?
where it's the person at thepulpit, right?
It's the person that's at thefront of the room, not the
person in the back.
It's not the person in themiddle of the queue, right?
It's always someone that's inthe spotlight.
(36:48):
And it's almost like inanswering our calling, right?
We're able to shed whatevernotion that those who came
before us may have created bytradition or religiosity or
legalism, right?
We're able to shed those thingsbecause at the end of the day,
(37:10):
God doesn't play favorites.
Each one of us individually andcollectively is his favorite,
right?
It's not because, you know,we're all called, it's like
we're all called to differentthings, right?
It's the body of Christ.
The church is the body and it'smany parts, right?
many functions, right?
(37:31):
Like I can't take my left armand use it as my right leg,
right?
So I think that's very good.
You dispel something that's kindof prevalent, right?
Where people might say, theremight be someone out there who's
saying, well, I can't speak likethat.
I don't have that kind oflanguage.
Or I've heard people oftentimessay, oh, I don't want to pray
(37:53):
because I don't know that muchscripture and my words, they get
all mumbled up or whatever thecase may be, right?
We tend to listen to the lies ofthe enemy and stifle ourselves
with this idea or thismisconception that we can't be
just as called as the nextperson because we're too busy, I
(38:14):
guess, looking to the right andto the left instead of focusing
and fixing our gaze on him.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
right.
That's beautiful, Kathy.
If our listeners would like topick up a copy of that book,
where can they find it?
SPEAKER_02 (38:26):
The best place to get it is either at
revelationship.net, so it'srevelationship, just like it
sounds,.net.
The book is there.
There's a free devotional thatthey can download if they get
the book.
But there's also a not-freedevotional.
It's 250-plus pages, beautifulphotography, immersive QR codes
(38:51):
with worship songs, the wholething.
It's meant to be an immersiveexperience.
I have other resources there,including a blog I've been
writing for the past, I think,10 years or something like that.
And a lot of people, they willsend me questions, hard
questions, and even share withme their prayer needs.
And they can do so.
They can connect with me atrevelationship.net.
(39:11):
They can also get it on Amazon,but it's hard to find because
Amazon thinks revelationshipisn't a word.
So that's always fun.
You have to type inrevelationship and Kathy
Garland, and then you'll findit.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
Got it.
That's awesome.
You heard that folks,revelationship.net, where you
can connect, get all theresources you need, want, and
possibly would want in surrenderand finding that relationship,
that intimate relationship inthe way that Kathy found it.
She's laid out a path for everyone of you to make it a little
bit easier.
So maybe you don't have to prayfor that tree to fall on your
(39:46):
car.
Kathy, I want to end with onelast thing.
If there's a bit of advice thatyou could give our listeners,
that might make surrender easierfor them.
I know we all struggle with, Imean, identity is a hot topic in
the world today.
So we struggle with that.
We struggle with receiving whowe are, our identities in
Christ, knowing who he is,because we get to a flip of a
(40:12):
coin, decide whether we're oneor the other these days, which
that's a whole differentconversation.
But if you could give a bit ofadvice to our listeners today,
on maybe a step, a practicalstep, or something that might
make it easier, a perspectiveeven, to make it easier for them
to surrender and begin thatwalk, what would you give them?
SPEAKER_02 (40:35):
Well, I think I would definitely say I'm happy
to share.
I'll give you the notes, thelink to some notes on it.
But I have a devotional.
It's called Known.
It's coming out soon, butthere's a free link.
I'll give you that.
I would share that with thembecause being known...
This is what we're talkingabout.
The intimacy is knowing andbeing known.
(40:57):
And the free resource I can giveyou goes through 32 names of
God, such as El Roy, which youheard me use earlier, or Abba,
which is father, which youreferred to, or Hashepet, the
Lord, our just judge.
You know, these are things thatare.
important for us to know aboutGod because they define who we
(41:20):
are.
And I'm happy to share that withpeople.
That would be maybe one adviceas a resource that I could share
with people.
The advice also, other thanlooking for the mountain of God,
is I would say that you are notdisqualified.
That's almost like a word ofknowledge for your listeners.
There are people who arelistening to your show, to our
(41:43):
conversation, and they have madesome not-so-wise decisions.
And I've been there.
I've done that too.
I have a couple of t-shirts forthat.
But the point is that whatyou've done does not disqualify
you from being called.
UNKNOWN (42:00):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
There are sins that are particularly heinous that
pastors lately have beencommitting, and they're falling
from grace, and they shouldn'tbe pastors again.
They're still called, and whenthey repent and they surrender
and they return to Christ, theywill have a place in the body of
Christ.
You were just talking aboutthat.
Every one of us has a calling,and it's not just a calling on
(42:23):
the stage or a calling withinthe church.
It's multiple callings.
Fuchsia Pickett taught thatwe're called to fellowship.
We're called to be brothers andsisters in Christ.
And there's something like, Idon't know, she said something
like 60 different callings inthe Bible.
We're all called.
And what we've done does notdisqualify us from that calling.
(42:45):
The gifts and callings of Godare without repentance is what
the old King James Version says,which means it can't be taken
back.
There's no take backs.
So he gives us those callings.
He calls us.
He knits us together.
in a mother's womb, and thesegifts and callings are knitted
together with who we are.
And if you've made some baddecisions, it's very easy to
(43:06):
return to Christ.
Simply say, I'm sorry I madethose decisions, and then turn
back and do the things that youdid at the beginning.
That's what Christ gives us.
He says, return to your firstlove.
Do those things that you did inthe beginning.
Read the Bible as a love letterto you, and to understand the a
(43:27):
God who's revealed in thosewords.
Pray, sit in silence.
If you don't know what to say,Sit in silence.
There's a whole lot of presenceof God in silence, more than
even just rattling off the soapmethod or the prayer to-do list.
He's there.
He promises He's already there.
(43:47):
You just haven't sensed Him in awhile.
That's okay.
He'll return.
The sense of His presence willreturn.
He's always been there.
He's never left.
He promises never to leave.
So that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Amen.
Well, his promises are yes andamen, and he is faithful to
complete.
Kathy, I want to thank you.
You've shared a lot of wisdom, alot of knowledge.
I want to thank you for beingunfiltered and unhindered.
Honestly, those are the twowords that come to mind
immediately, because you're notgoing to be restrained from
(44:25):
letting people know exactly whatit is.
You know this to be true becauseyou've experienced these things.
So it's not like anybody cancome and say, ah, that didn't
happen.
You know it to be true.
You lived it, right?
So I want to thank you for that.
As we close, I want to do you anhonor now.
Since you set the table for usin prayer, I would love to pray
with you.
And then we will close.
(44:46):
Heavenly Father, God, you are sogood to us.
You long to be known and madeknown.
You long for us to know thatyou're there, that you're with
us, that you won't forsake us.
God, what a privilege and apleasure it is to serve you, to
(45:07):
know you, to have a relationshipwith you, Father, that you would
cause us to see you in the waysthat we need to see you, that
would get us to where you wantus to go.
We thank you for that, Father.
Right now, I thank you forKathy.
I thank you for her life.
God, I thank you that instead ofa tree falling on her car, you
spoke and asked her tosurrender.
(45:27):
And as a result of that, God,you've given her such a gift and
a word of knowledge, God, andexperience that she's able to
share right now with myself andwith those who are listening.
Father, I ask right now forthose who are listening, God,
the listener, would you showthem who you are today?
Would you help them fix theireyes on, as Kathy called it, the
(45:48):
mountaintop of God, where theywould find you?
God, would you help them torealize the grace that you so
freely give, that you are a Godwho comes down to our level in
compassion, not out of pity.
God, that we don't have tostrive in the kingdom.
We just have to relax,surrender, and receive.
Father, so I ask you today thatyou would do that, that you
(46:11):
would bless our listener, thatyou would bless Kathy in all
that she does, bless her family.
God, bless everyone andeverything that comes from book
as a result of the work thatyou've done in her life and your
imminent and prevalent hand,that intimacy that you have with
her, Lord.
Bless each and every personunder the sound of my voice
right now, God.
(46:32):
I ask that you would help them,that this conversation would
draw them just one step closerto you, and that the end result
would be the fulfillment of yourprayer, Jesus, that we would all
be one, knitted together inlove, one, just as you and the
Father are one.
We praise you today.
We give you all glory in themighty name of Jesus.
(46:54):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (46:55):
Amen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Well, that has been another episode of The Low Life
Show.
Stay tuned.
We've got another guest comingon the next episode.
So until then, stay low, stayblessed, and stay ready for the
next episode of The Low LifeShow.
Peace.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
Thank you.
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