April 27, 2025 • 37 mins
Shoot me a text and I will respond! ☆
Hello! In Episode 2, I explore the topic of dreams and how musicians can channel their individual experiences while asleep into writing melodies or songs. I decided to break this topic up into a few parts since it is on the longer side. I give some examples of famous artists such as Paul McCartney (The Beatles) and Sting (The Police) that have utilized the power of dreams to craft a work of art. Enjoy!!
"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley
"Discover that which makes you shine, always and forever into infinity"
-Joseph Matthew
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome, one and all, to the Magic Music Podcast.
I'm your host, Joseph Matthew,and in this series, we will be
discussing various occult andesoteric practices in music,
art, and culture.
So sit back, relax, and let'sexplore the unknown together.
Enjoy.
(00:28):
Hello everyone and welcome toepisode number two.
So in the last episode I kind ofgave like a brief introduction
to the podcast and what we weregoing to be discussing.
Talked a little bit about JimmyPage, Led Zeppelin, and Aleister
Crowley and how they kind ofintersect with each other.
(00:49):
And then about some other stuffas well.
So thanks for checking outepisode one.
But now...
something so this is something ialluded to in the first episode
like we were going to bediscussing dreams and what are
dreams like where do they comefrom right like is it your brain
(01:12):
or is it something somethingelse that's being kind of like
projected into you basically soi'm going to use chat gpt i
asked it some questions andwe're just kind of going to go
through and just explore topicof dreams together and how how
dreams can affect songwritersand musicians and how they can
(01:36):
translate their dreams intoreality you know i always
thought dreams were it was likea way of telling you something
you know about yourself that'smaybe suppressed or you have
this desire for something more.
(01:58):
And who knows what that is?
That can be money.
That can be fame.
It can be to get, you know, abunch of like men and women to
like you.
Dreams can be anything.
You know, you can have reallybeautiful dreams and really
horrific dreams, and those canaffect the types of songs that
you write.
(02:18):
So Let's see, ChatGPT says, Iasked, what are dreams?
And it replied, dreams aresequences of thoughts, images,
sensations, and emotions thatoccur in the mind during sleep,
especially during the REM orrapid eye movement phase when
(02:41):
brain activity is high andresembles that of being awake.
Kind of goes into a breakdown ofstuff, but...
Yeah, you know, dreams are, youknow, you're really moving
around.
That's the thing.
Like, you're not just, like,laying there and...
Ooh, someone texted me.
UNKNOWN (03:03):
Boop.
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah, it's like your body is reacting, you know, in a
way.
And, like, you know, if you onlyget a couple hours of sleep,
you're not going to wake upfeeling rested.
I feel like nine times out often.
But if you get, like, youknow...
at least six or seven hours, Ithink, at least for me.
(03:25):
I'm kind of a night owl, so I'llstay up super late, and some
nights I'll go to bed superearly.
For my job, I have to wake uppretty early in the morning, and
I've had to adjust some thingsaround because I just changed my
work schedule, so I basicallyhave more time in the afternoon,
(03:46):
which is pretty nice, and I cantake naps if I want to, so...
i'm gonna have to get up at 3 45in the morning 4 a.m and my
shift starts at 5 5 to 1 30which is pretty pretty nice um
let's see so a scientific orneurological view brain activity
(04:10):
during rem sleep the brain ishighly active different regions
light up especially the limbicsystem which handles emotions
and the visual cortex However,the prefrontal cortex, which is
responsible for logic andreasoning, is less active.
This is partly why dreams canfeel surreal or illogical.
(04:31):
That's pretty interestingbecause that is kind of stripped
away, you know, all thesilliness.
Reality is just reality.
It is how it is, but dreams takeit and they remove all the
seriousness and of life um soit's whimsical yet things can
(04:55):
feel a lot more potent like ifyou have a really horrific
nightmare about some guy chasingyou with a knife or something
like or something something elselike demonic creatures or yeah
experiencing some really darkevil stuff that resides in all
(05:18):
of us You know, it's just hiddendeep down for most people, I
feel like.
But then, because we suppressthat, you know, most of the time
we want to help each other andlove each other and be kind to
each other.
But yeah, the world's dark, butit's also light.
You know, there are good people,there are bad people.
It's very strange.
And then to go further, memoryand processing.
(05:40):
Some theories suggest dreams area way for the brain to process
and consolidate memories,emotions, and experiences from
the day.
So if you have something reallystressful that happened to you
that day, whether at work or athome, or if you're just going
through some wild shit, that'sgoing to go and plant itself and
(06:03):
root itself in your mind.
And it's going to continue togrow and flourish.
And if you don't confront it,it's going to keep getting
bigger and bigger and biggeruntil it completely explodes.
Wow, it's beautiful out rightnow.
It's raining and stuff.
(06:28):
I love the rain.
The rain's nice.
It's really soothing, you know,when you don't have to really
deal with the problems that rainhas sometimes, like, you know,
flooding or your basementgetting wet.
See, that's very interesting.
(06:48):
psychological view okay sosigmund freud believe dreams are
a window into the unconsciousmind where repressed desires and
thoughts express themselves insymbolic form yeah i kind of
agree with that things kind ofthings can kind of come to you
in like different ways ifsomething's like suppressed yeah
(07:12):
i can kind of flourish in adream you know something that
you want, something that likeyou're craving.
That desire, like desire is likea strong, very strong word.
You can have like impulses whereyou're not really thinking
straight, but it's like if yousuppress that during the day,
(07:35):
it's going to come out at nightwhen you're not conscious.
And then Carl Jung, one of myfavorites.
Love that guy.
Thought dreams reveal truths andpersonal growth potential using
symbols that stem from acollective unconscious.
Yeah, this idea of a collectiveunconscious where we experience
(07:57):
the same things.
Like there's almost like a dreamworld.
Since we're all related, we'reall going to have very, very,
very similar experiences andsome differ, of course.
You have different occupationsin life.
You know, you can become alawyer or you can become a
plumber, which both are greatjobs and you can do whatever you
(08:21):
want.
You really can, but you'rerevealing things to yourself.
It's like looking at yourself ina mirror and you're like
scolding yourself, you know,sometimes.
And that can make you better.
It's like, oh, why did I dothis?
And I replay it in my head.
And then you start to thinkabout, hmm, like if those had
like, you know, has aconsequence in real life my
(08:43):
dream is trying to tell me tolike do something to be more
kind or to apologize to somebodythen you should follow you know
follow your dreams likeliterally and figuratively like
if you follow follow your dreamslike they can tell you something
about yourself i guess it'ssimilar to psychedelics too
where it can really like pryopen you know your third eye and
(09:10):
it like forces you to look atyourself Today, many
psychologists see dreams as thebrain's way of problem solving,
emotional regulation, or stressprocessing.
Yeah, it's like something that'ssupposed to help you.
Like if we didn't dream, like wewouldn't know how to like maybe
(09:34):
fix certain things in our lives.
And like did humans always dreamor...
did it come with evolutionthat's another thing it's like
you know did is there like adream world like did it our
brains connect our our brainslike connected to something like
this invisible tether thatconnects you to this other realm
(10:02):
and is that world connected toother worlds you know it can go
on and on and on but no there'sreally really no way to like
study dreams I think like itwould be pretty amazing in the
future if you can hook someone'sbrain up to a computer and maybe
AI can replicate what thatperson's like seeing and what's
(10:26):
odd to me is that you know thesereally like crude and you know
almost like childlike AI videosare gonna grow they're gonna
grow up like I'm going to watchAI get bigger and bigger and
better and better.
And it's going to be like, I'mwatching this thing expand and
(10:48):
grow up.
That's like, you know, it's,it's oddly a part of us because
it is us.
We're projecting ourselves intoa computer and then maybe AI can
like hone in on your brainsignals, I guess.
And then it can pop up on ascreen and you're like, wow,
that looks like something you'dsee on like Adult Swim.
You know what I mean?
Like, something really, like,crazy and insane.
(11:09):
And, like, the shows I try toavoid, actually, because they
really, really mess me up.
So I don't really watch all thatweird, you know, stuff that's
kind of, like, a little intense.
It's almost, like, toopsychedelic.
So if you watch that stuff alot, like, you know, Godspeed.
But I kind of watch justYouTube, honestly, and, like, a
(11:34):
couple shows on HBO.
um some on netflix but let's seenext is philosophical and
cultural views in many culturesdreams are seen as messages
prophecies or connections to thespiritual realm it's very
interesting i'm sure there aredifferent you know tribes
(11:57):
throughout time that you knowbelieve that there's something
else that's out there you knowand it's just a part of this uh
big big process sorry guys yougotta type in my laptop stuff
(12:20):
okay sorry guys we're back soyeah messages you know yeah it
can be sending things to youprophecies yeah like also seeing
seeing throughout time you know,the past, present, or future,
like maybe you'll see somethingthat is going to come true.
(12:41):
Like I had a dream that, I don'tknow, I saw this young girl like
running around and she wasprobably like maybe four.
She had like light brown hair.
And I was like, man, like, well,would I have a daughter like
that one day?
Like I didn't see her facethough.
So it's like, it only revealsparts to you.
So I thought that wasinteresting.
(13:03):
So it's probably trying toreveal the future to me or open
up a door where you're kind ofjust peeking through a little
bit.
And then the spiritual realm.
Yeah, there might be ghosts ordeities that are trying to
contact you.
And yeah, you know what?
So I guess I'll kind of tell mystory about what happened to me
(13:30):
a few years ago.
that I kind of, I said in thefirst podcast, I would kind of
go into more detail about it,but I had two great aunts.
They were, they were incredible.
They were the nicest humanbeings on the planet.
They passed away.
My one great aunt, she had, shehad dementia, but my other great
(13:53):
aunt was like sharp as a tack.
You know, she could likeremember literally like
everything you know from yearsago so it's just it's kind of
crazy to me it's like you don'tknow what you're gonna get when
you get to a certain age rightso it's like you can you get you
can get anything you knowanything can happen to you
(14:15):
anything and it's like you knowyour life is on this path that
keeps going forward it doesn'tlook back it doesn't look in the
rear view that's for sure sothey both lived together and one
great aunt passed a few yearsago and then which is the one
that had dementia and then myother great aunt passed you know
(14:36):
I think a few few months laterso it's like they had this this
connection because they wereconnected to my great
grandmother so yeah it's likeone of those things great
grandmother and greatgrandfather yeah they were just
(14:57):
kind of like tethered togetherAnd I thought that was beautiful
that they lived together for solong.
Because they just enjoyed eachother's company.
And then we'd go to events andstuff and it would be really
nice seeing them.
They always ask how I'm doing.
And really interested in mylife.
(15:19):
And seeing what I was into andmy hobbies and interests and
things like that.
Or where I was working at thetime.
So yeah, it's really nice to...
really nice that i was able tobe a part of their life in some
way shape or form and that youknow they were they were a huge
part of mine and i miss themdearly think about them a lot
(15:44):
and i lived in georgia and thiswas about i want to say like uh
almost like four years ago now ithink but you know i was
exhausted and i remember layingdown for the night And I had
this wild dream that, you know,I was kind of like in this water
(16:06):
park and then I was kind ofswimming a little bit.
There was this giant waterfalland that's where the water was
coming from.
And went up the waterfall and Igot to this house and the house
was like very, very like homey.
(16:28):
And then there was like asliding door and we just went
through and it was just like aliving room.
And it was my best friend'sliving room.
Like to a T, like replica andeverything.
Like it was insane.
The amount of detail that wasliterally in every square inch.
So I sat down on one of thecouches and It wasn't facing the
(16:53):
TV.
It was off to like the side andlike you had to kind of turn
your head to the left to likelook at the TV.
The TV was on the left side ofthe wall hanging from the top.
And I was by myself.
I believe there were some otherpeople there.
It's a little fuzzy on who.
I think my friend was there.
(17:14):
But then he leaves and then Iwas kind of by myself.
And so...
I was sitting there watching theTV, and it kind of started to
morph a little bit.
And then I felt like a presence.
And then it was like I looked tomy right, and my one gradient
(17:38):
was there.
And then I looked to my left,and then my other gradient was
there.
And they were the same age as Iwas, I'm pretty sure.
I mean, at the time, I was like24.
26 I think Around that age.
Yeah mid to late 20s when I hadthe dream So they were like in
(18:01):
their mid-20s and they lookedThey looked beautiful, you know
because I saw them die, you knowwhen they were a lot older I
didn't get to see them when theywere younger and it was really
it was trippy because it'salmost like they like stepped
back in time and started likediscussing things with me and I
(18:21):
remember like just saying like,wow, like you guys look great.
You guys look so beautiful.
Like, you know, I really missyou.
How's everything been?
I have so much to talk to youabout.
And, you know, they both saidlike, don't worry, like we're in
a good place.
You know, you don't have tothink that we are, you know,
(18:44):
being hurt or this and that, youknow, like they were, it was
like peaceful and There was thislike, you know, this light and
this, the kids say aura now.
So there was aura about themthat was very like a light
being.
Like, I don't know how todescribe it.
Like a warmth, like a nice, anice cozy blanket, a nice hot
(19:08):
cozy blanket.
You know, you're all warm andfuzzy.
You're laying down for thenight.
So it was like that.
It was like, it was like theywere hugging me, but without
hugging me.
And...
Yeah, and then I just...
(19:28):
I think we just kind of talkedabout it a little bit more.
I think it was kind of likeBabel, you know?
But it was potent, you know?
And they said, you know, we misseveryone.
I didn't really go into detailabout where they were.
I don't know.
And I remember...
(19:50):
That's when the dream ended andI woke up and I took a minute to
process it, like literally like60 seconds.
And I was like, oh my God, likethat was the most surreal, lucid
dream I've ever had in my life.
It was like truly pretty insane.
(20:10):
And I just wept.
I wept on the side of my bed.
And I was just like in shock.
And I was just like, it wassaddening.
But it was also nice becausethat means I think they were
there.
It's like I had, I swear I haveguardian angels.
Like I almost got in like anaccident one time, like driving
(20:34):
to my grandfather's funeral.
This woman just pulled out.
She saw me coming and continuesto pull out.
And I'm like, man, that was aclose call.
And I just got a new car, Ithink.
Yeah.
Just paid it off, actually.
So now the bank or state do notown my vehicle so I can drive
around as an owner of a nicecar.
(21:03):
So that's fun.
But yeah, it really affected me.
You know, deep down, the dreamhad a potent, a very, very
potent impact on my psyche andand just how my attitude
changed.
I was kind of in this funk andthen that brought me back.
It was like, I dipped downpretty far and then I shot back
up to where I was.
And then, you know, we ended upmoving around a little bit after
(21:27):
that, but it was kind of, it wasa nice embrace and to know that
they were still kind of with usin some way, shape or form.
So it's truly amazing.
And it felt real.
It felt so incredibly real.
(21:49):
I felt them.
It was like I felt their touch.
And I think that was what reallygot to me.
It's like when people say theseprophets have visions.
That might be a vision.
And I can't describe any otherdream like it.
(22:09):
Maybe it was just exhaustionor...
Depression, like, I have noidea.
But this thing just like, theycame down.
There were like two angels.
It was really crazy.
And I know on the last podcast,you know, talked about like, you
know, religion and stuff.
But, you know, my one friend isvery, very religious.
(22:29):
And the idea of God itself ismore explorable to me than just
kind of focusing on one aspectof it.
Like, I think there's so much tolearn, so much to encompass.
And if it works for you, then itworks for you.
And that's a beautiful,beautiful thing.
But yeah, I'm just here.
I'm here to explore all of themysticism and all of the strange
(22:58):
things that go on and takeplace.
So yeah, so let's just move on.
I know I described the dream,but now let's see some fun
facts.
we dream about two hours pernight on average that's that's a
pretty long time two hours youdream a lot you can dream about
(23:18):
a lot of stuff or have onemassive dream which i had the
other night that probably maybeonly lasted like a minute but it
felt it felt like a saga youever have those saga dreams
where it's like you're going onthis quest and then you like you
wake up and then you fall backasleep and then you continue
(23:40):
where you left off in the dreamthat's like it's like you when
you pause a video game that'skind of what it is it's like
boop pause boop start and it'sreally pretty crazy that's
pretty crazy it's like you'replaying another character in
another world which might evenbe you know a video game Lucid
(24:03):
dreams are when you're awareyou're dreaming and sometimes
you can even control them.
That's happened to me before.
I've been able to controlcertain parts of my dreams for a
little while and then like thedream almost catches on.
Or like you kind of...
Yeah, it's a very, very weirdsensation.
(24:24):
It's like, this isn't reality,but this is very interesting
type of thing.
And yeah, I've definitely...
I don't know, I haven't beenable to control an entire dream,
just certain little parts of it.
And nightmares are oftentriggered by stress, trauma, or
even food or sleep disruptions.
(24:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's happened tome.
I've had more nightmares whenI'm super stressed, super tired,
super anxious.
Like, you know, I have prettyhigh anxiety, I would say, but,
you know, I don't know if mydreams are like really like that
anxiety ridden I think it's moreof like they're a little bit
(25:08):
calming you know I guess likebut yeah the other night I had a
pretty bizarre dream like I wasat work and like things just
kind of morphed and got reallyweird and like inappropriate and
like it was just insane likewhat happened but let's see so
to connect dreams to music.
(25:38):
I think they're tethered in someway, shape, or form.
You know, I don't want to quoteor like, you know, misquote
somebody, but I think you canfind like on YouTube or like,
you know, another platform orlike a clip or whatever social
media site of John Frusciantefrom the Red Hot Chili Peppers
talking about how he has likethis thing he's like he doesn't
(26:02):
know where songs come from theycome to him it's like the song
is begging to be written almostlike there's this urge to get
this like thing out of you andwhether that's just a bunch of
notes in in a specific order orlike singing a vocal line and
expressing yourself in voicethere's that that spark that
(26:25):
turns into a flame that turnsinto a brush fire that turns
into a forest fire.
It keeps, it keeps likeelevating, you know, like the
more that you write the song,it's like, okay.
And then you add more stuff toit.
And then you have this, thisphysical thing that's moving
through the air and intopeople's eardrums.
And they're like, wow, thatsounds really cool.
(26:47):
Like, let's take a song likesnow by the red hot chili
peppers.
Like that whole thing like cameto him.
And he's also, he's also agenius.
By the way, his solo stuff isreally, it's so good.
It's just so good.
It's like alternative.
It's like avant-garde.
(27:09):
It's like pop.
It's like, you know, rock andmetal.
It's like, it goes all over theplace and he makes more
electronic music, which I'mreally, really super into.
I think he likes square pusher.
It was like video game music,arcade stuff.
Glitchy.
glitchy stuff, which I'm reallyinto as well.
(27:32):
So I'm surprised or I'm notsurprised that he listens to
that kind of stuff and more andother types of music to get
inspiration.
You know, I encourage you guysto listen to a ton of diverse
music.
You know, I go from listening toreggae to bossa nova to hard
(27:55):
rock to to lo-fi like it's justto country like whatever my mood
is you know like I've just beenlistening to I've been doing a
bunch of yard work and I put onI was just in the mood for uh
Presence by Led Zeppelin youknow because since the last
podcast I've been thinking aboutZeppelin pretty heavy and also
(28:18):
reading a lot of AleisterCrowley stuff as well to get
more like familiar like I thinkI might do a review of um of
cocaine it's a very short essaythat he wrote i guess about the
pros and cons of of the drug andhow yeah i'll just i can get
(28:39):
into that more but how thatrelates to making a song right
like you have guys that aredoing this stuff and other drugs
in general that can change theflow of the song and the vibe of
the song if you get super stonedlike that song might be a little
bit slower Laid back.
Or maybe not.
(29:00):
Maybe more aggressive.
It depends on the type thatyou're taking, right?
Some things are stimulants.
You know, some things aredepressants.
I'm going to try to think of...
So there are a bunch of, youknow, famous musicians that have
turned their dreams into actualsongs.
So, you know, the first one thatcomes to mind is Paul McCartney.
(29:23):
I believe he had...
some kind of a dream or he wokeup with some kind of melody in
his head and he like rushed overto the piano and like tried to
play it he was convinced I guesshe plagiarized it because it
felt so like like a completepiece of work um even the lyrics
(29:44):
and everything it was it was allthere for him and that song was
yesterday which is a reallybeautiful song I'm a big Beatles
fan When I was younger, I waskind of like conceited and I was
like, oh yeah, like, you know,the Beatles, I know they're like
super popular, but like, I don'twant to listen to the Beatles.
I want to listen to like theRolling Stones or like other,
(30:06):
other really amazing classicrock bands, you know, like
Zeppelin or whatever.
I thought I was being like edgyby not really listening to them,
which when I look back isreally, really stupid.
I missed out on a lot of coolgenres when I was younger.
I was mostly into like hard rockand metal, electronic a little
bit, you know, but then I kindof branched out as I got older,
(30:28):
which I think people do.
They're just looking forsomething cool or something
cooler to listen to.
They might get tired of acertain genre and they're like,
you know what?
I've been listening to like rockfor like two weeks.
I kind of, I'm feeling somethingmore, you know, mellow.
And then you'll listen to likemore folky stuff.
That's what I do.
I try to switch it up i guesskeith richards also i can't get
(30:54):
no satisfaction the rollingstones song it's crazy like he
reportedly recorded the riff inhis sleep and had like a tape
recorder next to his bed woke upmumbled the famous riff into it
and then fell back asleep andthen Yeah, it had like 40
(31:17):
minutes of snoring afterwards.
So it's like, yeah, you can likejust, like just came to him.
And that's kind of crazy.
Like that maybe he was having adream where it kind of sounds
like a horn.
You know, like, it's like, Idon't know.
(31:38):
It's kind of like funky.
Then Billy Joel.
Let's see.
The River of Dreams.
so he dreamed the melody andeven the lyrics and that's
pretty crazy like i think hesaid that it had like a gospel
vibe and he didn't want torecord it or something like that
(31:59):
and then let's see sting thepolice every breath you take
sting had said that parts of thesong came to him in a
half-asleep state and he wrotethem down very quickly it's
often described as a stalkeranthem yes it is but he says it
was written during a roughpersonal time, likely fueled by
emotional dreams.
(32:21):
Yeah, I mean, if you're goingthrough something like that,
it's going to manifest, youknow, if you let it sink deep
inside of you.
I have to give ChatGPT creditbecause it said dreams are
basically the original jamsession of the subconscious.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
(32:44):
You take what you heard duringthe day and it kind of scrambles
it up a little bit.
And then you're left with thisthing that just shoots out to
you.
It reaches out to you and grabsyou for a minute.
And you're like, hey, payattention to me.
This is important.
You should do this.
Don't overthink it.
Just do it.
That's life.
(33:04):
Of course, I tend to overthinkthings a lot.
And I think that a lot of peopledo.
So just kind of like going withthe flow of life.
So what's the worst that canhappen?
And then it gets into some, youknow, artists and writers and
(33:26):
such like Salvador Dali, hiswork, The Persistence of Memory,
William Blake, and differentwriters, you know, Mary Shelley,
who famously wrote Frankenstein.
And she said it came during anightmare, during a stormy night
(33:46):
in Geneva while staying withLord Byron.
They were all trying to writeghost stories.
So yeah, I mean, if they'rewriting some scary shit and
you're in...
If you're in a castle orsomething, because Lord Byron
sounds like he'd be in a castle,not like a little cottage.
(34:07):
It doesn't make sense to me.
That would have to be some kindof a castle.
And it's like a...
it's like storming outside it'slike really you have to walk
around with a lantern and you'rewriting ghost stories yeah i
mean you're gonna you're gonnadefinitely come up with
something that's pretty prettyintense and horrifying you know
(34:34):
and the human mind can the humanmind creates these things right
Or actually, I shouldn't saythat.
Maybe it's either the human mindor it's coming from another
plane.
But it channels into the humanbrain and then we expel it in
the way that we visualize it inour mind.
(34:56):
Your mind can't project stuffonto paper like you have to.
It courses through you and thenyou take action and then you do
that thing.
You are almost instructed to doby something.
possessions you know if you'repossessed by something whether
it's like you know an emotion oran actual being or an entity
(35:19):
that takes over you it's reallyterrifying to experience that
let's see and then robert louisstevenson who wrote dr jekyll mr
hyde literally dreamed of themain scene where Jekyll turns
(35:40):
into Hyde.
And then he woke up, he wrote itfuriously.
His wife said she saw him actingout scenes in his sleep.
So if he's like moving aroundand shit, you know, he's gonna
say some things or like, youknow, do some things.
It's pretty nuts.
It's like he himself, he himselfis transforming into this like
monster.
(36:00):
It's monstrosity.
And then also, Edgar Allan Poe,my homeboy, That's pretty cool.
Most writers were writing abouthappy, sunny things and joy
(36:31):
because they were too scared toface the atrocities of life.
and the darkness and Edgar AllanPoe he he kind of edged with the
darkness a little bit you knowhe like played with it flirted
with it I don't know a lot abouthim but he just seems like an
interesting interestingcharacter for sure sure did a
(36:52):
lot of strange things
Welcome, one and all, to the Magic Music Podcast.
I'm your host, Joseph Matthew,and in this series, we will be
discussing various occult andesoteric practices in music,
art, and culture.
So sit back, relax, and let'sexplore the unknown together.
Enjoy.
(00:28):
Hello everyone and welcome toepisode number two.
So in the last episode I kind ofgave like a brief introduction
to the podcast and what we weregoing to be discussing.
Talked a little bit about JimmyPage, Led Zeppelin, and Aleister
Crowley and how they kind ofintersect with each other.
(00:49):
And then about some other stuffas well.
So thanks for checking outepisode one.
But now...
something so this is something ialluded to in the first episode
like we were going to bediscussing dreams and what are
dreams like where do they comefrom right like is it your brain
(01:12):
or is it something somethingelse that's being kind of like
projected into you basically soi'm going to use chat gpt i
asked it some questions andwe're just kind of going to go
through and just explore topicof dreams together and how how
dreams can affect songwritersand musicians and how they can
(01:36):
translate their dreams intoreality you know i always
thought dreams were it was likea way of telling you something
you know about yourself that'smaybe suppressed or you have
this desire for something more.
(01:58):
And who knows what that is?
That can be money.
That can be fame.
It can be to get, you know, abunch of like men and women to
like you.
Dreams can be anything.
You know, you can have reallybeautiful dreams and really
horrific dreams, and those canaffect the types of songs that
you write.
(02:18):
So Let's see, ChatGPT says, Iasked, what are dreams?
And it replied, dreams aresequences of thoughts, images,
sensations, and emotions thatoccur in the mind during sleep,
especially during the REM orrapid eye movement phase when
(02:41):
brain activity is high andresembles that of being awake.
Kind of goes into a breakdown ofstuff, but...
Yeah, you know, dreams are, youknow, you're really moving
around.
That's the thing.
Like, you're not just, like,laying there and...
Ooh, someone texted me.
UNKNOWN (03:03):
Boop.
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah, it's like your body is reacting, you know, in a
way.
And, like, you know, if you onlyget a couple hours of sleep,
you're not going to wake upfeeling rested.
I feel like nine times out often.
But if you get, like, youknow...
at least six or seven hours, Ithink, at least for me.
(03:25):
I'm kind of a night owl, so I'llstay up super late, and some
nights I'll go to bed superearly.
For my job, I have to wake uppretty early in the morning, and
I've had to adjust some thingsaround because I just changed my
work schedule, so I basicallyhave more time in the afternoon,
(03:46):
which is pretty nice, and I cantake naps if I want to, so...
i'm gonna have to get up at 3 45in the morning 4 a.m and my
shift starts at 5 5 to 1 30which is pretty pretty nice um
let's see so a scientific orneurological view brain activity
(04:10):
during rem sleep the brain ishighly active different regions
light up especially the limbicsystem which handles emotions
and the visual cortex However,the prefrontal cortex, which is
responsible for logic andreasoning, is less active.
This is partly why dreams canfeel surreal or illogical.
(04:31):
That's pretty interestingbecause that is kind of stripped
away, you know, all thesilliness.
Reality is just reality.
It is how it is, but dreams takeit and they remove all the
seriousness and of life um soit's whimsical yet things can
(04:55):
feel a lot more potent like ifyou have a really horrific
nightmare about some guy chasingyou with a knife or something
like or something something elselike demonic creatures or yeah
experiencing some really darkevil stuff that resides in all
(05:18):
of us You know, it's just hiddendeep down for most people, I
feel like.
But then, because we suppressthat, you know, most of the time
we want to help each other andlove each other and be kind to
each other.
But yeah, the world's dark, butit's also light.
You know, there are good people,there are bad people.
It's very strange.
And then to go further, memoryand processing.
(05:40):
Some theories suggest dreams area way for the brain to process
and consolidate memories,emotions, and experiences from
the day.
So if you have something reallystressful that happened to you
that day, whether at work or athome, or if you're just going
through some wild shit, that'sgoing to go and plant itself and
(06:03):
root itself in your mind.
And it's going to continue togrow and flourish.
And if you don't confront it,it's going to keep getting
bigger and bigger and biggeruntil it completely explodes.
Wow, it's beautiful out rightnow.
It's raining and stuff.
(06:28):
I love the rain.
The rain's nice.
It's really soothing, you know,when you don't have to really
deal with the problems that rainhas sometimes, like, you know,
flooding or your basementgetting wet.
See, that's very interesting.
(06:48):
psychological view okay sosigmund freud believe dreams are
a window into the unconsciousmind where repressed desires and
thoughts express themselves insymbolic form yeah i kind of
agree with that things kind ofthings can kind of come to you
in like different ways ifsomething's like suppressed yeah
(07:12):
i can kind of flourish in adream you know something that
you want, something that likeyou're craving.
That desire, like desire is likea strong, very strong word.
You can have like impulses whereyou're not really thinking
straight, but it's like if yousuppress that during the day,
(07:35):
it's going to come out at nightwhen you're not conscious.
And then Carl Jung, one of myfavorites.
Love that guy.
Thought dreams reveal truths andpersonal growth potential using
symbols that stem from acollective unconscious.
Yeah, this idea of a collectiveunconscious where we experience
(07:57):
the same things.
Like there's almost like a dreamworld.
Since we're all related, we'reall going to have very, very,
very similar experiences andsome differ, of course.
You have different occupationsin life.
You know, you can become alawyer or you can become a
plumber, which both are greatjobs and you can do whatever you
(08:21):
want.
You really can, but you'rerevealing things to yourself.
It's like looking at yourself ina mirror and you're like
scolding yourself, you know,sometimes.
And that can make you better.
It's like, oh, why did I dothis?
And I replay it in my head.
And then you start to thinkabout, hmm, like if those had
like, you know, has aconsequence in real life my
(08:43):
dream is trying to tell me tolike do something to be more
kind or to apologize to somebodythen you should follow you know
follow your dreams likeliterally and figuratively like
if you follow follow your dreamslike they can tell you something
about yourself i guess it'ssimilar to psychedelics too
where it can really like pryopen you know your third eye and
(09:10):
it like forces you to look atyourself Today, many
psychologists see dreams as thebrain's way of problem solving,
emotional regulation, or stressprocessing.
Yeah, it's like something that'ssupposed to help you.
Like if we didn't dream, like wewouldn't know how to like maybe
(09:34):
fix certain things in our lives.
And like did humans always dreamor...
did it come with evolutionthat's another thing it's like
you know did is there like adream world like did it our
brains connect our our brainslike connected to something like
this invisible tether thatconnects you to this other realm
(10:02):
and is that world connected toother worlds you know it can go
on and on and on but no there'sreally really no way to like
study dreams I think like itwould be pretty amazing in the
future if you can hook someone'sbrain up to a computer and maybe
AI can replicate what thatperson's like seeing and what's
(10:26):
odd to me is that you know thesereally like crude and you know
almost like childlike AI videosare gonna grow they're gonna
grow up like I'm going to watchAI get bigger and bigger and
better and better.
And it's going to be like, I'mwatching this thing expand and
(10:48):
grow up.
That's like, you know, it's,it's oddly a part of us because
it is us.
We're projecting ourselves intoa computer and then maybe AI can
like hone in on your brainsignals, I guess.
And then it can pop up on ascreen and you're like, wow,
that looks like something you'dsee on like Adult Swim.
You know what I mean?
Like, something really, like,crazy and insane.
(11:09):
And, like, the shows I try toavoid, actually, because they
really, really mess me up.
So I don't really watch all thatweird, you know, stuff that's
kind of, like, a little intense.
It's almost, like, toopsychedelic.
So if you watch that stuff alot, like, you know, Godspeed.
But I kind of watch justYouTube, honestly, and, like, a
(11:34):
couple shows on HBO.
um some on netflix but let's seenext is philosophical and
cultural views in many culturesdreams are seen as messages
prophecies or connections to thespiritual realm it's very
interesting i'm sure there aredifferent you know tribes
(11:57):
throughout time that you knowbelieve that there's something
else that's out there you knowand it's just a part of this uh
big big process sorry guys yougotta type in my laptop stuff
(12:20):
okay sorry guys we're back soyeah messages you know yeah it
can be sending things to youprophecies yeah like also seeing
seeing throughout time you know,the past, present, or future,
like maybe you'll see somethingthat is going to come true.
(12:41):
Like I had a dream that, I don'tknow, I saw this young girl like
running around and she wasprobably like maybe four.
She had like light brown hair.
And I was like, man, like, well,would I have a daughter like
that one day?
Like I didn't see her facethough.
So it's like, it only revealsparts to you.
So I thought that wasinteresting.
(13:03):
So it's probably trying toreveal the future to me or open
up a door where you're kind ofjust peeking through a little
bit.
And then the spiritual realm.
Yeah, there might be ghosts ordeities that are trying to
contact you.
And yeah, you know what?
So I guess I'll kind of tell mystory about what happened to me
(13:30):
a few years ago.
that I kind of, I said in thefirst podcast, I would kind of
go into more detail about it,but I had two great aunts.
They were, they were incredible.
They were the nicest humanbeings on the planet.
They passed away.
My one great aunt, she had, shehad dementia, but my other great
(13:53):
aunt was like sharp as a tack.
You know, she could likeremember literally like
everything you know from yearsago so it's just it's kind of
crazy to me it's like you don'tknow what you're gonna get when
you get to a certain age rightso it's like you can you get you
can get anything you knowanything can happen to you
(14:15):
anything and it's like you knowyour life is on this path that
keeps going forward it doesn'tlook back it doesn't look in the
rear view that's for sure sothey both lived together and one
great aunt passed a few yearsago and then which is the one
that had dementia and then myother great aunt passed you know
(14:36):
I think a few few months laterso it's like they had this this
connection because they wereconnected to my great
grandmother so yeah it's likeone of those things great
grandmother and greatgrandfather yeah they were just
(14:57):
kind of like tethered togetherAnd I thought that was beautiful
that they lived together for solong.
Because they just enjoyed eachother's company.
And then we'd go to events andstuff and it would be really
nice seeing them.
They always ask how I'm doing.
And really interested in mylife.
(15:19):
And seeing what I was into andmy hobbies and interests and
things like that.
Or where I was working at thetime.
So yeah, it's really nice to...
really nice that i was able tobe a part of their life in some
way shape or form and that youknow they were they were a huge
part of mine and i miss themdearly think about them a lot
(15:44):
and i lived in georgia and thiswas about i want to say like uh
almost like four years ago now ithink but you know i was
exhausted and i remember layingdown for the night And I had
this wild dream that, you know,I was kind of like in this water
(16:06):
park and then I was kind ofswimming a little bit.
There was this giant waterfalland that's where the water was
coming from.
And went up the waterfall and Igot to this house and the house
was like very, very like homey.
(16:28):
And then there was like asliding door and we just went
through and it was just like aliving room.
And it was my best friend'sliving room.
Like to a T, like replica andeverything.
Like it was insane.
The amount of detail that wasliterally in every square inch.
So I sat down on one of thecouches and It wasn't facing the
(16:53):
TV.
It was off to like the side andlike you had to kind of turn
your head to the left to likelook at the TV.
The TV was on the left side ofthe wall hanging from the top.
And I was by myself.
I believe there were some otherpeople there.
It's a little fuzzy on who.
I think my friend was there.
(17:14):
But then he leaves and then Iwas kind of by myself.
And so...
I was sitting there watching theTV, and it kind of started to
morph a little bit.
And then I felt like a presence.
And then it was like I looked tomy right, and my one gradient
(17:38):
was there.
And then I looked to my left,and then my other gradient was
there.
And they were the same age as Iwas, I'm pretty sure.
I mean, at the time, I was like24.
26 I think Around that age.
Yeah mid to late 20s when I hadthe dream So they were like in
(18:01):
their mid-20s and they lookedThey looked beautiful, you know
because I saw them die, you knowwhen they were a lot older I
didn't get to see them when theywere younger and it was really
it was trippy because it'salmost like they like stepped
back in time and started likediscussing things with me and I
(18:21):
remember like just saying like,wow, like you guys look great.
You guys look so beautiful.
Like, you know, I really missyou.
How's everything been?
I have so much to talk to youabout.
And, you know, they both saidlike, don't worry, like we're in
a good place.
You know, you don't have tothink that we are, you know,
(18:44):
being hurt or this and that, youknow, like they were, it was
like peaceful and There was thislike, you know, this light and
this, the kids say aura now.
So there was aura about themthat was very like a light
being.
Like, I don't know how todescribe it.
Like a warmth, like a nice, anice cozy blanket, a nice hot
(19:08):
cozy blanket.
You know, you're all warm andfuzzy.
You're laying down for thenight.
So it was like that.
It was like, it was like theywere hugging me, but without
hugging me.
And...
Yeah, and then I just...
(19:28):
I think we just kind of talkedabout it a little bit more.
I think it was kind of likeBabel, you know?
But it was potent, you know?
And they said, you know, we misseveryone.
I didn't really go into detailabout where they were.
I don't know.
And I remember...
(19:50):
That's when the dream ended andI woke up and I took a minute to
process it, like literally like60 seconds.
And I was like, oh my God, likethat was the most surreal, lucid
dream I've ever had in my life.
It was like truly pretty insane.
(20:10):
And I just wept.
I wept on the side of my bed.
And I was just like in shock.
And I was just like, it wassaddening.
But it was also nice becausethat means I think they were
there.
It's like I had, I swear I haveguardian angels.
Like I almost got in like anaccident one time, like driving
(20:34):
to my grandfather's funeral.
This woman just pulled out.
She saw me coming and continuesto pull out.
And I'm like, man, that was aclose call.
And I just got a new car, Ithink.
Yeah.
Just paid it off, actually.
So now the bank or state do notown my vehicle so I can drive
around as an owner of a nicecar.
(21:03):
So that's fun.
But yeah, it really affected me.
You know, deep down, the dreamhad a potent, a very, very
potent impact on my psyche andand just how my attitude
changed.
I was kind of in this funk andthen that brought me back.
It was like, I dipped downpretty far and then I shot back
up to where I was.
And then, you know, we ended upmoving around a little bit after
(21:27):
that, but it was kind of, it wasa nice embrace and to know that
they were still kind of with usin some way, shape or form.
So it's truly amazing.
And it felt real.
It felt so incredibly real.
(21:49):
I felt them.
It was like I felt their touch.
And I think that was what reallygot to me.
It's like when people say theseprophets have visions.
That might be a vision.
And I can't describe any otherdream like it.
(22:09):
Maybe it was just exhaustionor...
Depression, like, I have noidea.
But this thing just like, theycame down.
There were like two angels.
It was really crazy.
And I know on the last podcast,you know, talked about like, you
know, religion and stuff.
But, you know, my one friend isvery, very religious.
(22:29):
And the idea of God itself ismore explorable to me than just
kind of focusing on one aspectof it.
Like, I think there's so much tolearn, so much to encompass.
And if it works for you, then itworks for you.
And that's a beautiful,beautiful thing.
But yeah, I'm just here.
I'm here to explore all of themysticism and all of the strange
(22:58):
things that go on and takeplace.
So yeah, so let's just move on.
I know I described the dream,but now let's see some fun
facts.
we dream about two hours pernight on average that's that's a
pretty long time two hours youdream a lot you can dream about
(23:18):
a lot of stuff or have onemassive dream which i had the
other night that probably maybeonly lasted like a minute but it
felt it felt like a saga youever have those saga dreams
where it's like you're going onthis quest and then you like you
wake up and then you fall backasleep and then you continue
(23:40):
where you left off in the dreamthat's like it's like you when
you pause a video game that'skind of what it is it's like
boop pause boop start and it'sreally pretty crazy that's
pretty crazy it's like you'replaying another character in
another world which might evenbe you know a video game Lucid
(24:03):
dreams are when you're awareyou're dreaming and sometimes
you can even control them.
That's happened to me before.
I've been able to controlcertain parts of my dreams for a
little while and then like thedream almost catches on.
Or like you kind of...
Yeah, it's a very, very weirdsensation.
(24:24):
It's like, this isn't reality,but this is very interesting
type of thing.
And yeah, I've definitely...
I don't know, I haven't beenable to control an entire dream,
just certain little parts of it.
And nightmares are oftentriggered by stress, trauma, or
even food or sleep disruptions.
(24:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's happened tome.
I've had more nightmares whenI'm super stressed, super tired,
super anxious.
Like, you know, I have prettyhigh anxiety, I would say, but,
you know, I don't know if mydreams are like really like that
anxiety ridden I think it's moreof like they're a little bit
(25:08):
calming you know I guess likebut yeah the other night I had a
pretty bizarre dream like I wasat work and like things just
kind of morphed and got reallyweird and like inappropriate and
like it was just insane likewhat happened but let's see so
to connect dreams to music.
(25:38):
I think they're tethered in someway, shape, or form.
You know, I don't want to quoteor like, you know, misquote
somebody, but I think you canfind like on YouTube or like,
you know, another platform orlike a clip or whatever social
media site of John Frusciantefrom the Red Hot Chili Peppers
talking about how he has likethis thing he's like he doesn't
(26:02):
know where songs come from theycome to him it's like the song
is begging to be written almostlike there's this urge to get
this like thing out of you andwhether that's just a bunch of
notes in in a specific order orlike singing a vocal line and
expressing yourself in voicethere's that that spark that
(26:25):
turns into a flame that turnsinto a brush fire that turns
into a forest fire.
It keeps, it keeps likeelevating, you know, like the
more that you write the song,it's like, okay.
And then you add more stuff toit.
And then you have this, thisphysical thing that's moving
through the air and intopeople's eardrums.
And they're like, wow, thatsounds really cool.
(26:47):
Like, let's take a song likesnow by the red hot chili
peppers.
Like that whole thing like cameto him.
And he's also, he's also agenius.
By the way, his solo stuff isreally, it's so good.
It's just so good.
It's like alternative.
It's like avant-garde.
(27:09):
It's like pop.
It's like, you know, rock andmetal.
It's like, it goes all over theplace and he makes more
electronic music, which I'mreally, really super into.
I think he likes square pusher.
It was like video game music,arcade stuff.
Glitchy.
glitchy stuff, which I'm reallyinto as well.
(27:32):
So I'm surprised or I'm notsurprised that he listens to
that kind of stuff and more andother types of music to get
inspiration.
You know, I encourage you guysto listen to a ton of diverse
music.
You know, I go from listening toreggae to bossa nova to hard
(27:55):
rock to to lo-fi like it's justto country like whatever my mood
is you know like I've just beenlistening to I've been doing a
bunch of yard work and I put onI was just in the mood for uh
Presence by Led Zeppelin youknow because since the last
podcast I've been thinking aboutZeppelin pretty heavy and also
(28:18):
reading a lot of AleisterCrowley stuff as well to get
more like familiar like I thinkI might do a review of um of
cocaine it's a very short essaythat he wrote i guess about the
pros and cons of of the drug andhow yeah i'll just i can get
(28:39):
into that more but how thatrelates to making a song right
like you have guys that aredoing this stuff and other drugs
in general that can change theflow of the song and the vibe of
the song if you get super stonedlike that song might be a little
bit slower Laid back.
Or maybe not.
(29:00):
Maybe more aggressive.
It depends on the type thatyou're taking, right?
Some things are stimulants.
You know, some things aredepressants.
I'm going to try to think of...
So there are a bunch of, youknow, famous musicians that have
turned their dreams into actualsongs.
So, you know, the first one thatcomes to mind is Paul McCartney.
(29:23):
I believe he had...
some kind of a dream or he wokeup with some kind of melody in
his head and he like rushed overto the piano and like tried to
play it he was convinced I guesshe plagiarized it because it
felt so like like a completepiece of work um even the lyrics
(29:44):
and everything it was it was allthere for him and that song was
yesterday which is a reallybeautiful song I'm a big Beatles
fan When I was younger, I waskind of like conceited and I was
like, oh yeah, like, you know,the Beatles, I know they're like
super popular, but like, I don'twant to listen to the Beatles.
I want to listen to like theRolling Stones or like other,
(30:06):
other really amazing classicrock bands, you know, like
Zeppelin or whatever.
I thought I was being like edgyby not really listening to them,
which when I look back isreally, really stupid.
I missed out on a lot of coolgenres when I was younger.
I was mostly into like hard rockand metal, electronic a little
bit, you know, but then I kindof branched out as I got older,
(30:28):
which I think people do.
They're just looking forsomething cool or something
cooler to listen to.
They might get tired of acertain genre and they're like,
you know what?
I've been listening to like rockfor like two weeks.
I kind of, I'm feeling somethingmore, you know, mellow.
And then you'll listen to likemore folky stuff.
That's what I do.
I try to switch it up i guesskeith richards also i can't get
(30:54):
no satisfaction the rollingstones song it's crazy like he
reportedly recorded the riff inhis sleep and had like a tape
recorder next to his bed woke upmumbled the famous riff into it
and then fell back asleep andthen Yeah, it had like 40
(31:17):
minutes of snoring afterwards.
So it's like, yeah, you can likejust, like just came to him.
And that's kind of crazy.
Like that maybe he was having adream where it kind of sounds
like a horn.
You know, like, it's like, Idon't know.
(31:38):
It's kind of like funky.
Then Billy Joel.
Let's see.
The River of Dreams.
so he dreamed the melody andeven the lyrics and that's
pretty crazy like i think hesaid that it had like a gospel
vibe and he didn't want torecord it or something like that
(31:59):
and then let's see sting thepolice every breath you take
sting had said that parts of thesong came to him in a
half-asleep state and he wrotethem down very quickly it's
often described as a stalkeranthem yes it is but he says it
was written during a roughpersonal time, likely fueled by
emotional dreams.
(32:21):
Yeah, I mean, if you're goingthrough something like that,
it's going to manifest, youknow, if you let it sink deep
inside of you.
I have to give ChatGPT creditbecause it said dreams are
basically the original jamsession of the subconscious.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
(32:44):
You take what you heard duringthe day and it kind of scrambles
it up a little bit.
And then you're left with thisthing that just shoots out to
you.
It reaches out to you and grabsyou for a minute.
And you're like, hey, payattention to me.
This is important.
You should do this.
Don't overthink it.
Just do it.
That's life.
(33:04):
Of course, I tend to overthinkthings a lot.
And I think that a lot of peopledo.
So just kind of like going withthe flow of life.
So what's the worst that canhappen?
And then it gets into some, youknow, artists and writers and
(33:26):
such like Salvador Dali, hiswork, The Persistence of Memory,
William Blake, and differentwriters, you know, Mary Shelley,
who famously wrote Frankenstein.
And she said it came during anightmare, during a stormy night
(33:46):
in Geneva while staying withLord Byron.
They were all trying to writeghost stories.
So yeah, I mean, if they'rewriting some scary shit and
you're in...
If you're in a castle orsomething, because Lord Byron
sounds like he'd be in a castle,not like a little cottage.
(34:07):
It doesn't make sense to me.
That would have to be some kindof a castle.
And it's like a...
it's like storming outside it'slike really you have to walk
around with a lantern and you'rewriting ghost stories yeah i
mean you're gonna you're gonnadefinitely come up with
something that's pretty prettyintense and horrifying you know
(34:34):
and the human mind can the humanmind creates these things right
Or actually, I shouldn't saythat.
Maybe it's either the human mindor it's coming from another
plane.
But it channels into the humanbrain and then we expel it in
the way that we visualize it inour mind.
(34:56):
Your mind can't project stuffonto paper like you have to.
It courses through you and thenyou take action and then you do
that thing.
You are almost instructed to doby something.
possessions you know if you'repossessed by something whether
it's like you know an emotion oran actual being or an entity
(35:19):
that takes over you it's reallyterrifying to experience that
let's see and then robert louisstevenson who wrote dr jekyll mr
hyde literally dreamed of themain scene where Jekyll turns
(35:40):
into Hyde.
And then he woke up, he wrote itfuriously.
His wife said she saw him actingout scenes in his sleep.
So if he's like moving aroundand shit, you know, he's gonna
say some things or like, youknow, do some things.
It's pretty nuts.
It's like he himself, he himselfis transforming into this like
monster.
(36:00):
It's monstrosity.
And then also, Edgar Allan Poe,my homeboy, That's pretty cool.
Most writers were writing abouthappy, sunny things and joy
(36:31):
because they were too scared toface the atrocities of life.
and the darkness and Edgar AllanPoe he he kind of edged with the
darkness a little bit you knowhe like played with it flirted
with it I don't know a lot abouthim but he just seems like an
interesting interestingcharacter for sure sure did a
(36:52):
lot of strange things
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