Souls in the Machine: Faith Meets Technology

Send us a text

Have you ever wondered what happens when human consciousness meets digital immortality? This thought-provoking episode dives deep into the realm of uploaded intelligence—a concept that goes beyond artificial intelligence to explore what happens when we can transfer our minds into computers.

Starting with a captivating discussion of AMC's animated series "Pantheon," we unpack the ethical, existential, and philosophical questions raised when humans upload their consciousness to digital platforms. What does it mean to be human if our minds can exist without bodies? Is an uploaded consciousness truly the same person? And would you choose digital immortality if given the choice?

The conversation travels through fascinating territory—from how different dimensions might relate to religious concepts of God and afterlife, to the practical implications of consciousness that moves at computer speed rather than human speed. We share personal reflections on whether we'd choose to upload ourselves, revealing surprising perspectives on digital existence versus natural death.

As real-world technology rapidly advances with brain-computer interfaces like Neuralink, these formerly sci-fi questions have become increasingly relevant to our present. We explore how uploaded intelligence could transform geopolitics, redefine human relationships, and potentially create new forms of existence entirely.

Whether you're fascinated by technology's cutting edge, philosophical questions about consciousness, or the intersection of faith and digital existence, this episode will leave you questioning what defines humanity in an increasingly digital world. Listen now and join the conversation about our potential digital afterlives.

Episode Transcript

Shaka Omari (00:00):
Welcome to the Open Queue, a podcast where we talk
about entertainment, pop cultureand the daily life of
navigating the entertainmentindustry.
As a creative, I'm your host,Shaka Omari, and I'm joined by
my business partner, CharlesMalone.
We'll sometimes have othercreative guests on to tell us
about their journey in theindustry, dealing with their ups
and downs and struggles andsuccesses.

(00:21):
We'll also touch on currentchanges to the business of
television and film, as well asqueue up what we're watching,
listening to or a piece of artwe've been inspired by.
The music you're listening tois the Lambda Chops for Dinner
from the TV show Pantheon,composed by Marco Beltrami,
Brandon Roberts and Buck Sanders.
And now let's get queued up.

Charles Malone (00:44):
Welcome back to episode two of Open Queue.
Yeah, I'm ready to get intothis again, I think.

Shaka Omari (00:55):
Yeah, so again, as we're going into what's queued
up, you know I got to ask thequestion that we've been
discussing in the last one whatare you watching?
What are you inspired by?
Anything cool, anything greathappened since last time I
talked to you.

Charles Malone (01:10):
yeah, I'm gonna continue on doing dark things
that you don't want to hearabout.
I had a bud showed me a graphicnovel called the ice cream man
that was, uh, really, reallykind of like kooky and dark and
he kind of like threw me in toone of the chapters or volumes
that, like uh, is in the middleof the series.

(01:32):
That you're kind of just likethrust into the story of a dude
who like jumps off this buildingas he's giving this monologue
and as he's falling 80 somethingfloors.
There's also a story that'sgoing on within the building and
because this is like I'm justjumping into the middle of
something, I'm like what isgoing on and there's like a lady
who's getting her eye eaten outby a vulture, but she's on the

(01:54):
phone.
she's like I'm sorry, bill, I'mgonna have to call you back like
no one's responding in shock orhorror to some of the things
that's going on around them.
And you're're just like what isgoing on in this business?
Everyone on drugs and thisguy's still talking to you as
he's falling to the ground.
Um, it was kind of dark.

Shaka Omari (02:10):
It was very funny, um, kind of kind of, and the
title is the ice cream man.

Charles Malone (02:16):
Yeah, the ice cream is the demon that's going
around.
I guess doing I guess, to readthe Grok novel.
I haven't read the whole thing,but it always inspires me Like
I wish more people would takesome of their dark thoughts and

(02:37):
put them into a different outletinstead of putting them into
the world.
So, besides that, you know, Ithink one thing we're going to
talk about today, which wetouched on in the first episode,
is Pantheon and shows thatexplore the capabilities of
machines and humanity.

(02:58):
Pantheon is one I definitelykeep coming back to, especially,
you know, continuing on thisthing about AI as we figure out
what to do with artificialintelligence.
So creepy ice cream demon anduploaded intelligence.

Shaka Omari (03:16):
Okay, I would say that would be a good segue.

Charles Malone (03:18):
That creepy ice cream demon, yeah, well, that's
well before we completely, justjump fully into Pantheon.
I think you know one thing weboth wanted to to talk about as
this is an industry podcast orindustry adjacent, as we do talk
about some life stuff as wellis thoughts really quickly,

(03:40):
because I don't really want togo into the show because I
haven't even finished it yet,but you want to talk about the
studio.

Shaka Omari (03:45):
Yes, yes, okay, I got to say like I'm not done
with it.
I think I got two more episodesto watch and I will say the
first two episodes loved it.
Thought it was hilarious,thought it was funny.
Obviously it's a love letter tothe industry.
I felt a lot of the things thathe was feeling, not that I'm

(04:06):
like the CEO of a studio, but Ithink a lot of the things that
he's going through like I thinkthere's a specific line where he
says I think it's something I'mparaphrasing that I fell in
love with making movies and nowit's my job to kill them, which
I kind of feel.
In my opinion, the studiosystem now has kind of gotten
into this shareholder, you knowinfinite profit thing to the

(04:29):
point where it's like, if itdoesn't seem like it's going to
make us money which I understand, you know art is a risk you
want to make the money back thatyou put and invest into
whatever the project is.
But it feels like it's so muchabout that now that you end up
killing like any creativitybecause you're only looking for,
like the bottom line.
That's my opinion.
So that line for me reallyresonated.

(04:50):
But I also love, like the, theway that the they're trying to
like.
They talk about the CEO that'staking over the company.
In episode two they do thisawesome one, or which you know
any of us that have ever had tofight against daylight setting
or anything like that?
I think we've all felt thatkind of thing.
Trying to get that take, evendealing with sound.
I think it's just a it's.

Charles Malone (05:09):
it's a great love letter to the industry no,
no, yeah, I couldn't help butthink, as you talked about the,
the studio, and kind of likethem trying to mitigate risk and
maximize profit.
I just I won't harp up on thegreed of sinners, um, because we
already talked about that, butyeah, it's, it's a shame.

(05:29):
I thought it was good, you knowfor what it is.
Uh, it did make me miss the olddays of entourage, oh, yeah,
yeah, entourage, um, and thenthe, the very first, first
episode for someone who has beenan assistant and tried to leap
from the assistant role to acoordinator to you know
associate, like as you try toclimb this ladder and what we do

(05:52):
, when he's one of thecandidates for the promotion
he's rushing out his assistantis like did you hear?
And he's like yeah, and if Iget this, I'm going to promote
you to ce.
And she's like really I thoughtyou were just saying that, so
you, so I wouldn't quit.
He's like I was, but if I getit, I'm really going to promote
you to CE.
And she's like really I thoughtyou were just saying that, so
you, so I wouldn't quit.
And he was like I was, but if Iget it, I'm really going to
promote you.
Which just made me really laughfor reasons of like the carrot
on the stick, of like trying tolike get a promotion, but also

(06:13):
the coveted position, of likejumping from assistant to
creative executive position.
You know, and it's so funnywhen you're not from LA, you
don't have family that's from la, or not entertainment, they
hear things like oh, you're acreative executive at paramount,
or you're a creative executivejust in general, and it sounds
so like glamorous and like itstill doesn't pay that well and

(06:35):
it's hard.
It's like hard to go to sohohouse when you're only making
like fifty thousand dollars andtrying to like network keep up
with the joneses and network andyour fans like oh man, you must
be living lavishly and doingall these things like.
Trust me, it's not what itlooks like on instagram, uh bro,
like no lie.

Shaka Omari (06:56):
Uh, I went home for a high school reunion and
everybody was like, oh my gosh,I see you hanging out with all
these people and things likethat and I'm like it looks.
But you know, I'm one of theones that when they're like, hey
, free pizza party in the office, I'm like okay, yeah, free food
for lunch.

Charles Malone (07:12):
The amount of assistance and coordinators and
some creative executives andsome executives that are still
living paycheck to paycheck whenthey're shoulder to shoulder
with millions of dollars andjust hoping to get a piece is
wild.
But my biggest critique of theshow and I know it's a, it's
like satire and it's making fun,it's supposed to be, it's

(07:33):
comedy.
I just think I think SethRogen's character for someone
who gets promoted spoilers toCEO I mean it's in the first
episode.
I don't know how much I'mreally spoiling.
Um, just, I would have loved tosee because I think I've
watched five episodes, because Idid do the the one where
they're like is this racist,which was a really funny episode

(07:53):
.
Yeah, I dug that one.
Um, I just wish he had a littleshows, a little bit more teeth
like again, not pc here, butlike his character is too much
of a fanboy and pussy throughmost of the episodes.
I know that's not right to say,but it's too late.
I already said it, um and I, Ijust would have seen some of the
, the gruff or toughness thatyou do need to make it to that

(08:16):
ceo position yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaka Omari (08:18):
You know, like, uh, your reference to entourage a
little bit of ari in there.

Charles Malone (08:23):
You know a little bit of that, that fight,
that tenacity, that thatwheeling and dealing, you know
trying to outsmart the otherperson to get the best deal, not
, not everybody is likecompletely like a thick-skinned
shark who is just.
But you do have to have teethto make it in this industry to a

(08:43):
degree, and I know there'sprobably some really spineless
people at the executive level.
But I just feel like hischaracter lacked some depth and
he's kind of one note to me.

Shaka Omari (08:57):
I could see that.
I could see that because I feellike gosh Catherine O'Hara's
character.
The producer.
Mixed feelings the CEO.

Charles Malone (09:05):
Before oh, no, no, no, not her, okay, I'm
thinking about Catherine Han.

Shaka Omari (09:09):
Yeah, okay, mixed feelings.
The marketing lady.

Charles Malone (09:12):
We talked about vultures before and it was just
a great depiction of vultures.

Shaka Omari (09:17):
No, the one that was CEO before.
I felt like she has a nicebalance of like emotionality, of
being like, oh, I just want tobe seen and I want to be
important and I love this thingbut also having the teeth to
wheel and deal and get thingsdone, you know.

Charles Malone (09:30):
Yeah, and also it's a great thing of like how
ageist this industry can be.
There is a point where you dowhere it seems like you start to
age out.
I know there's like the youngpeople coming up who feel like
the people at the top won'tretire.
But if you're in it you alsosee how hard it is the older you
get and for her character as awoman, it gets harder to get

(09:52):
things made.

Shaka Omari (09:54):
That's a good point .
I didn't even think about itthat way, you know.
I was just thinking about it'sbusiness as usual.

Charles Malone (09:58):
But yeah, you're right, for when you add in the
ageism and the, the sexism, thensurvival in the industry does
seem a little bit more difficult, you know yeah, and you do need
to have, like some, some like Iwas gonna say some some teeth
again, but more so some backboneto, like you know, advocate for

(10:20):
yourself and push and fight toget things, um, done and get
things made.
But yeah, seth Rogen'scharacter just annoys me a
little bit, that's it, not SethRogen, the person.

Shaka Omari (10:30):
Just the character.
Yeah, Hopefully.
I don't know if it's going toget a season two.
I wouldn't be surprised.

Charles Malone (10:35):
No, it's funny when it hits it.
It hits I, just his characteris the main character.
It's like me.
Okay, again, it's like me.
Okay again, controversial wemay talk about this later on and
I feel like I'm throwing outthings when I'm shitting on the
dark knight.
Um, everyone told me to watch.
Um, this is actually a greatsegue.
Everyone told you aboutseverance right, we're on all

(10:57):
these apple shows, um, and I, Ilike, forced myself through the
first season, really.

Shaka Omari (11:05):
The first season you had to force yourself
through.

Charles Malone (11:09):
I had to force myself through both seasons, but
the story and concept ofseverance is interesting, the
ethical parts of like severingyour brain, and if that reality
perception is a reality, so tothem what they're experiencing
is real, right, you all thatstuff is intriguing and I'm here

(11:33):
for that.
I like adam scott as an actor,but he is the central character
and I just don't care about hischaracter and it's so hard to
get through because I just can'tget invested in him, which
makes it hard to watch and it'slike a really awkwardly paced
show which made watching thefirst three, four episodes

(11:55):
really hard because it's justsuch a slow burn, which I'm,
which I'm fine with a slow burn.
What was the?
There was this umoscar-nominated film a couple
years ago with the kid, theleftovers with paul giamatti,
was that what it's called?
I think so with the kids thatlike have to stay over the

(12:16):
christmas holiday that movie wasa slow burn, but I really
enjoyed it.
So it's not.
It's not that I can't getbehind something, that's just
like a little bit slower.
It's just like becauseseverance was really hard for me
.

Shaka Omari (12:26):
Okay, well, not to go super deep, you know, because
this is just us going throughwhat we've watched.
But were there any charactersin Severance?
So I agree with you.
Like the first season, Ithought, okay, I really like
this.
You know, it's psychological,that's kind of things that I'm
into.
Second season, I felt like,okay, this is a slower burn.

(12:49):
And there's some things whereI'm just kind of like this is
just kooky.
Now, like this is, this isweird, which I'm not really
following too much.
And the ending, spoiler alert.
For the second season, I waskind of like, well, where do we
go from here?
Now, like it kind of feels likeit it was a series finale, but
but what were there anycharacters that you felt you
were intrigued by, if adam scottwasn't intriguing to you?

Charles Malone (13:10):
yeah, I think they would like made it bearable
where there were interestingcharacters around him.
I really thought the ceo'sdaughter.
Once you find out again,spoiler that she's the ceo's
daughter, I forget her name thelike uh actress uh, what is that
?
Hailey, kelly, kelly, kelly,kelly, kelly, hailey, hailey,

(13:32):
hailey, hailey.
Uh, way more, maybe because hercharacter is the more active,
dynamic character of sex.
She's trying to fight back thesystem.
And then the comedic relief uh,black guy in there yeah, yeah,
you're talking about yeah, youknow his wife falling in love
with the the inner version isany, because that was like the,

(13:53):
the him before he got jaded anddisgruntled of the world not
giving him what he deserves.
Uh, that was more interestingthan the than adam scott's wife
in, like she's a lie, it wasn'tthat intriguing to me you're
talking about adam scott's wife,okay?
yeah, I got it, um, but yeah,yeah, what?

(14:14):
Why I'm using severance as agreat segue for us is that the
ethical questions aroundseverance is one of the shows
that inspired both of us, andwhat's going on in the world
right now with ai, artificialintelligence, was pantheon, like
.
Pantheon hit our group, ourgroup chat.
I think micah was the one whowas like you need to watch

(14:34):
pantheon, yeah, yeah, yeah, andhe was pushing it as an animator
himself.
He was like that was good, so II put it on and immediately
just binge watched it in onenight.
It was one of those things thatlike my fiance was like I'm
going to bed and I'm like I'msorry, I'm going to watch this
without you.
I was so invested and thenseason two dropped on Netflix
and again, once I finishedseason two, it was in every

(14:58):
group chat or message I couldpost it.
I was like yo, you need towatch pantheon, discord, yo, you
need to watch pantheon becausethat's a good question, like if
you could upload yourintelligence to the internet.
You know you have infiniteknowledge at the tip of your
mind at every given second andit's a show that's about grief.

(15:20):
Um, you know technology, power,power, the secrecy.
It touches on so much and I'dlove to dig through some of
these points, but first I wantto know what you felt about it.

Shaka Omari (15:32):
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.
So, same as you.
I remember Micah sending it tothe text and, you know, saying,
hey, we should watch it Again.
I was like, oh, it's ananimated show, you know, and I
have nothing against anime, Ilove animation, you know, I love
anime, all that kind of stuff,and I was like, all right, I'll
check it out.
But I think what it hit for meis, I don't know if you remember

(15:54):
, a couple of days before Iactually invested in it, you
were the one that really pushedme to watch it, because we were
this really deep conversationabout chat GBT and then
dimensions.
How we were talking to chat GBTand asking, you know, about the
different dimensions,mathematical theory, and you
know, fourth dimension, fifthdimension, outside of time, and
I remember you saying, as wewere going down this rabbit hole

(16:15):
about the dimensions, I shouldwatch this pantheon.
So I was like, all right, fine,let me give it a go and watch
it.
And I will say it was a littledarker than I thought.
But the idea of moving fromartificial intelligence to UI is
what they call it uploadedintelligence I found fascinating
and intriguing because itbrought in the concept of what

(16:39):
is reality.
You know like, logistically, wehuman beings were walking
around.
We're made of atoms, ofskeletal structure, of organs,
of muscles and things of thatnature, but we're also our
consciousness.
I am who I think, I am who Isay I am.
And uploaded intelligence isgetting rid of the physical and

(17:01):
just uploading yourconsciousness.
So what does it mean to behuman?
And I thought putting thatlevel of depth into a TV show,
into an animated TV show at that, was just mind boggling and
fascinating.
To just ponder if I can usepinky in the brain.

Charles Malone (17:20):
Yeah, I mean, man, this show packs so much
into two seasons.
I think when we were havingthat conversation, part of the
conversation just aboutdimensions got to trying to
understand religion with science.

(17:45):
And God is a cosmic being ofsome scale.
What level of dimension Are wejust a thought in a higher
being's consciousness?
So, in a way, are we in asimulation?
Are we in a thought ofsomething?
It still all fits in thisexistential question.

(18:06):
So the show really explores likethe ethical and existential
implications of, like, whathappens when you upload your
consciousness onto a computer.
Are you still you if you'reuploading your consciousness at
that state of time?
It's like a fixed version ofyou.
And a lot of this is spoilersbecause the show also goes into

(18:29):
like the ethical implications ofwhat if you clone someone, like
the show.
This show is trippy and Ireally don't want to spoil too
much if anyone's interested ingoing watching this show.
Um, and then it's also cheeky.
There's one character that iscomically Steve Jobs.
Yeah, and I drew the parallelsto the person that takes over

(18:52):
the company is essentially timcook, and you know.

Shaka Omari (18:58):
So it's interesting that you say that, because I
was thinking about that.
But when you look at the wayhe's drawn, he looks almost like
one of the microsoft founders.

Charles Malone (19:05):
He, he looks like one of the microsoft
founders, but he has aconversation explaining how he
was a company man and when thesteve job desk character died,
he knew that he would never beable to innovate.
All he can do was keep thatlegacy of what he had built

(19:25):
going and wait for the stevejobs like character to come
around again to put him back inpower, to bring the company back
to the form it used to be in,with like innovation and and
seeing around the curve.
But he knew that he could neverdo that.
He was just a numbers personand no shade tim cook.

(19:48):
He's a.
He's a numbers person.
Apple switched over into puttingeverything into services and
it's been a while since applehas truly been innovative.
Like, uh, we need a johnny ivesor someone to come back and be
the ceo of apple before we cansee.
I know it's gonna make a lot ofapple fanboys mad, but your,
your thing is dying man.
Apple's been way behind and Iknow the hubra devil's advocate

(20:11):
is like well, apple's never doneanything first.
No, but they've seen the, thepotential of what something
could be, and they've neverreally been playing catch up.
They're like, oh, this thinghas great potential, I'm going
to make the best version of this, not like oh, everyone's doing
cars, let's go do a car.
Oh shit, we should have beenfocusing on AI.
Cancel the car, let's go focuson AI.

(20:33):
Apple is just playing frombehind the hell heart, from
behind Hellheart, but the showis a great.
All of that Wrapped up into theshow, which uses a vehicle Of
like grief To drive the storyforward.
Because it all starts with agirl's dad who's passed and he

(20:53):
was working on uploadedintelligence and they secretly
upload him His brain Becausethey need to solve an equation.
So she gets the message from acomputer that ends up being her
dad and the whole thing is.
But really she just wants toreunite with her dad again.
Um, and as someone who's alsodad with young it pulled, it
pulled me in.
I was like oh man, imagine youget like a like dm from your

(21:16):
like grandma that passed.
You'd be like, oh, what's up,grandma?

Shaka Omari (21:20):
okay, maybe you would.

Charles Malone (21:21):
I would be freaked out because I like the
horror stuff I'd be like, uh,what is this demon in my
computer?
Ghost in the shell but yeah,but sometimes it is like this
longing um to just get the lastwords right you, you'll disheart
sometimes I mean like like onthat.

Shaka Omari (21:38):
That makes me think .
When you say that there's neverenough time with someone, it is
that you love, which is when wekind of go into the dimensions
thing about.
The fourth dimension is timeand anything that's outside.
So you know, this led me downthis path because I was actually
watching Marvel's what If?
And Uthab the Watcher.
He's a fifth dimensional beingand so he sees the multiverse.

(22:00):
You know, that whole idea thatyou're outside of time and time
is just a concept like that.
We're trapped in a thirddimension, third slash, fourth
dimension, I guess, becausethey're combined together.
The idea that you could beinfinite with the person forever
, I found intriguing.

(22:22):
But again to your point, if youwere to upload somebody so that
they like your grandma, likeyou're saying, and that she's
there, is that, how would youfeel and know it's really her
and not just an algorithmcomputing what's based on?

Charles Malone (22:44):
Yeah, you're expanding Descartes into you
know, the tech realm.
If you upload your intelligence, is it just what's an
artificial thought?
Like is this your original soul?
Does I think?
Therefore, I am still apply ifyou're on a server and and I
think this show does a reallygreat job of like, ass licking

(23:09):
and trying to answer thatquestion of like what is what
does it mean to be human?
What does it mean to beconscious, the essence of a soul
?
What I love about uploading andby the at the end of this, I
want you to answer like wouldyou do it?
Because I've had thisconversation so many times now
and it's like 50, 50.
It reminds me of a of a apenglish class where you read of

(23:32):
some I don't even remember thebook, but you think in catholic
school you read a book aboutselling your soul to the devil
and you expect everyone to beunanimous like no, I won't sell
your soul.
Half the class was like theteacher came up with, uh, the
like parameters of like you getx for this amount of years, you
die at 50, but you would havegotten everything you want from

(23:53):
18 to 50.
You would have gotteneverything you want.
Would you sell your soul.
Half the class sold their souland I think this is what
Pantheon's doing when peoplewatch this and we circle back.
Would you upload yourintelligence?
I'm surprised by how manypeople would.
I'm not even sure where I landon that.
Yet the evolution in the TVshow of uploaded intelligence

(24:16):
makes me consider it.
Show of uploaded intelligencemakes me like consider it
because in the show some of theuploaded minds talk about how
excruciating, painful it is totalk to and communicate to a
person because of how slow theythink, like when your mind's
uploaded to the internet.
I'm assuming you just again,everything, yeah, there's a snap

(24:39):
.
Every information thing you wantto do is a snap and going back
would be really hard and you'dhave to slow down for them.

Shaka Omari (24:51):
Okay.
So it reminds me of like.
In our last podcast we talkedabout sinners.
Like half the people, I think,on the internet said they
potentially would be vampires,because you know they get to
live longer, they get to get outof the racial times that
they're in.
You know they have the freedomto beat down anyone that tries
to come after them.
Some people are like Sammy,which they said no, I think I've

(25:12):
seen enough of this world.
So it's kind of the samequestion.
It's like do you want tocontinue living on in a faster
place where you're not tied downto this physical form?

Charles Malone (25:23):
It's hard to be a racist when you can't One,
then in an uploaded thing, if Iguess our consciousness, our
uploaded consciousness, we couldmake an avatar that looks like
anything in the digital world.
Why not, does racism go away.

Shaka Omari (25:42):
Right.
I mean, it's kind of likesomething that we do in video
games.
Now, right, when you create anavatar, you don't necessarily
have to be a man just becauseyou're a man in real life.
I've seen many people who play,you know, female characters and
vice versa.
I've seen people make them withpink hair that decide they want

(26:05):
to be an ogre, that decide theywant to be like.
Anytime I play skyrim or any ofthose elder I'm always an elf
like I'm just.
I love being a wood elf, youknow um, I never choose elves.
Yeah, what do you?
Choose just, elves are uppitywhat are you trying to say?
What do hang?
Hang Okay, okay.
What is wrong with it?
Elves are not uppity, we justlive longer and know more.

Charles Malone (26:22):
No, look through all the token.
Lore Elves are always up theirown butt.

Shaka Omari (26:26):
No, they're not up their own butt, they just have
more experience.
Sometimes when you know, moreand you see more.
You just come across as beinguppity.

Charles Malone (26:33):
I think Blight on Netflix did it right.
You saw, netflix did it rightyou saw what the elves district
was like we know, we know whoelves really are don't be mad,
because we know how to manage.

Shaka Omari (26:42):
All right, get the skills.
That's all I'm gonna say yeah,uh.

Charles Malone (26:45):
Well, it's hard because if we're talking skyrim
it's and I know we're gettingoff, we're gonna come back
really quick, but usuallykhajiit um, because they have
where if you have coin.
Um, wait to read is that whatyou're saying khajiit are uh,
the cat people, um, or if it'suh, if it's, if it's boulders
gay.
I usually, anytime I play dnd,I play half race things, obvious

(27:09):
reasons what are those obviousreasons as?
a biracial person myself.
You relate, yeah, I relate, uh,and it's fun.
It's fun to role play.
Um so, half elf, half a workokay, you like to be in between.
Yeah, live in the in between.
Uh, and I usually go bard.

(27:30):
If I'm pick a class, that'smore than anything.
I could see that for you.
Yeah, um, but going, going backto, to pantheon and also ask
like, um you, you once quotedthis and I'd never heard the
quote before you said it, butsince I looked it up, it's uh uh

(27:51):
, power corrupts, but absolutepower corrupts absolutely.
And it kind of delves into that.
Because if uploadedintelligence can, then on a
military scale, how do you stopa company from monopolizing this
?
Then?
How do you stop cyber warfare?
It, it, it gets geopolitical,it gets existential.

(28:16):
This show how much they packedinto two seasons was really
bananas like.
Really quickly you startedhacking other countries and then
other countries startedstealing this technology because
they realized the potential ofit.
And same goes with with ai.
I think I saw one one thing ofa kid got bullied by

(28:37):
AI-generated nudes, which isalready happening.
And then when our politics aregoing to start making,
especially with VO2, we're goingto have to be really diligent
about sussing out AI-generatedpropaganda.
And the Black Pantheon.
Does this all really so well?

Shaka Omari (28:57):
Right, I mean again .
It goes back to what is realityLike.
If reality is all justconsciousness and concepts,
because that's what human beingsdo, we create from our
consciousness what is thereality?
And I found that ratherinteresting in this how, as I

(29:18):
think you've said before, youknow AI is a tool, right.
And is anything that humanbeings have created, from
dynamite to gunpowder, to.

Charles Malone (29:27):
A hammer man?
Are you trying to build a houseor beat someone to death?
This is really how you use atool.

Shaka Omari (29:33):
Exactly, and I think it's the question always
comes down to.
Well, I guess it's up to thenature of the person that's
choosing to use it, because youcould upload yourself and use
that to bring equity andunderstanding to the world.
Or you could use it to gatherpower and resources because
you're faster, quicker and canbe anywhere at all places at all

(29:55):
times.
Anywhere at all places at alltimes.
I think it's like in thehistory of movies, how there's
AI where you can have an R2-D2or you could have a T2, you know
, it just depends on how it'sused and what the overall desire
is.

Charles Malone (30:14):
Yeah, I kind of had this thing of, like you
leave your physical body toupload your intelligence to a
physical machine, so you'restill bound to that.

Shaka Omari (30:27):
third, dimension yeah.

Charles Malone (30:28):
Yeah, and like, what are the possibilities of
transcending beyond that serverinto something?
I think they?
They think they got there andkind of uploaded it to like a
actual robot and then somehow wegot to like again spoiler
alerts.
It goes from uploadedintelligence to you know,

(30:51):
political warfare, to god andmultiverse, and it all happened
so, so quickly.
But once you you got to, theend.

Shaka Omari (31:00):
You know what I was doing.

Charles Malone (31:00):
I was telling you about like seeing every
perceivable outcome and it'slike, at that point, are you a
god?

Shaka Omari (31:07):
so I think that's like the question of what,
because I mean, like the show isnamed pantheon which is you
know, the greek gods and it, orgods, I guess, because there's
pantheons of gods in allcultures.
So it really does.
I mean, like that's really whatyou know.
Drug me down this path, if Ican elaborate.
You know, like I say, I'm a manof faith and it made me really

(31:28):
think, thinking mathematically,how scientists, like you know,
neil Tyson, degrassi, weretalking about the different
dimensions and how, like, for atwo-dimensional character, right
, if we put a box around it, itcan't get out.
Right, and for us in the thirddimension, we'd say, well, why
don't you just step forward orbackward?
But that's because we live indepth.
We live in height, width anddepth.
So we could.
If somebody put a square framearound us, we could just step to

(31:51):
the front or the back or behindit to get out.
But if someone put us into acage which has, you know, a cube
, we can't get out.
But a fourth dimensional beingwould simply say, well, why
don't you go back to a timebefore you were in the cage, or
go forward in time to whenyou're no longer in the cage?
Because time means nothing to afourth dimensional being I
think that's what they call,like the Tesseract, where it's

(32:12):
like a cube.
That kind of falls in on itselfrepeatedly Again, leading back
to the Marvel thing of the fifthdimension.
Fifth, repeatedly Again,leading back to the Marvel thing
of the fifth dimension.
Fifth dimension means thatthere's multiverses, so there's
multiple, the sliding doortheory.
I think there's a movie likethat where you know your choice.
If you decide to go right,there's a version of you that
decided to go left, but thoseoutcomes happen and it just

(32:35):
keeps going up and up.
And it made me think, okay,well, that's kind of like you
know, if I use theJudeo-Christian version of God,
that's kind of like God when hesays I'm the Alpha and the Omega
.
Or, going back to Marvel, if youlook at like in the Loki season
, one time is a circle, but Kangand the TVA are outside of time
.
They know how the beginning isand how the end is and they trim

(32:58):
all the multiple variants forthe safety of, I guess, not crap
.
What we'll find out is Avengers, doomsday come out, which I'm
excited for.
But it just really made methink like, okay, if a god like
you're talking about in Pantheon, which is kind of ask the
questions, is consciousnessbecause it no longer has a
physical form and it's of ahigher dimension.

(33:20):
It means it's able totransverse all these different
dimensions which we still aremathematically trying to figure
out.
Not to go on a long tangent,but it just.
It fascinated me in my faith ofthinking of God as not like
this bearded cloud guy, but moreof a mathematical

(33:40):
multidimensional being.

Charles Malone (33:43):
Yeah, I mean, I've had several of these
conversations, it's.
I gotta say one thing I amlooking forward to Doom, but
they couldn't find anyone otherthan Robert Downey Jr.
I mean, I love Robert Downey Jr.
Okay, I'll stop.

Shaka Omari (33:58):
I'm sure they have something fascinating with that,
him being the multiverse, theversion of Iron man being Doom.
It could be interesting.

Charles Malone (34:07):
Yeah, could be, we'll see, we'll see.
I was like oh, my God, I feellike Marvel fanboys or Simmons
Apple fanboys.
I'm anointed a type Think foryourselves.

Shaka Omari (34:22):
Um okay, think different, but I'm bum.
I was.
Where's my?
But I'm bum, I don't know whichone it is nope, that's magic.

Charles Malone (34:24):
Okay, uh, we're still learning our tools.
Um, no, no, no, absolutely thething of, of god it has you
think, I think, before we thinkof god and aliens, and yeah, so
the very like hubris of what itis to be a person is like we, we
generally base everything offof our own experience of what we

(34:46):
know that life is like.
We need to, we need a model tobase our thoughts off of, and I
think sometimes we kind of haveto make a conscious effort to
try to let go of what we know alittle bit, to even begin to
perceive or understand of what agod or even alien could be.

(35:08):
Um, because, like what, ifthese things completely break
our, our like laws of physics orwhat we thought life was, and
makes us rethink?
there's just so many unknown,unknowns like a black hole yeah,
this, like neil digress tyson,is actually one of the voice of
one of the characters in the tvshow.
Yeah, um, this show has, likeaaron eckhart, daniel de cam,

(35:29):
paul dano, like the show is likeis stacked it's.
I'm surprised this show wasn'ta live action and it totally
could be and the acting would bephenomenal.
But it does make you question,not the existence of God, but
more so if God was somethingthat we could like, conceive,

(35:55):
what would he like, what wouldit be?
I think you had that one pastorthing that kind of broke my
brain and I was like, huh, Ididn't necessarily believe in
fate myself, right, I think somepeople think that life, a lot
of stuff, is predestined.

Shaka Omari (36:09):
Oh right.

Charles Malone (36:10):
Right, yeah, and like, and people think that God
has something in store for you.
Like he, there's a set plan.
And having a pastor take a morean orthodox for you there's a
set plan.
And having a pastor take a moreunorthodox approach to this and
say God doesn't havenecessarily a set thing planned
for you, as much as he can seeevery perceivable action you

(36:31):
would ever take.
You still have free will.
God had a path for you to goahead and make that million
dollars.
God also had a path for you togo ahead and end up with a
crippling addiction.
He hopes that you don't takethis one, but you have still the
will to go down any of thesepaths.
He's just hoping that you makethe right decision.
But he can't make you make thedecision.

(36:52):
And I think we want to usuallyrationalize things that, like
god has something in store to beto make sense of life.
But yeah, why would he care?

Shaka Omari (37:04):
about the truth.
Like there's just a billionpeople and he has other things
to do.
I mean, that's yeah, that is aninteresting perspective.
Now, I think he probably doescare.
Only, only because I like to.
I break it down and again, youknow, this is probably going to

(37:24):
have some people who callthemselves Christians coming at
me with pitchforks.

Charles Malone (37:28):
I don't care what the GCBs.

Shaka Omari (37:30):
Yeah, I consider myself a man of faith.
The idea that God is like love,right, which in Pantheon, I
feel it does kind of spoileralert, get to that, because the
whole purpose that the certaincharacter is doing is because of
love.
If God is love, it does care onthat specific level and, to
your point, out of that love itcan see the multiple choices

(37:54):
that you can make and it'ssaying, hey, if you trust me or
if you work with me, I can takeyou on a path that I think will
be beneficial not just to youbut to all these other billions
of people that you know.
You say he doesn't have timefor, because maybe he's like, if
I don't, but I know you do,because you're living with them
and you can help them and buildcommunity with them, or you

(38:14):
could ignore me, do your ownthing.
And the pastor that you'retalking about, pastor Owen, he
actually said something reallyinteresting where he's like when
we do something, we take creditfor it, but when anything bad
happens, we blame God for it.
So it's almost like we havefree will until it's bad, and
then, when it's bad, it's notfree will, it's him.
That's when he decides to payattention to us, but when we're

(38:36):
doing good it's like well, it's,it's any.

Charles Malone (38:39):
It's anything other than accountability or the
devil.
Or my mom said because I didthis because of this, because of
this, instead of looking in themirror and be like, or maybe I
should do some self-reflectionand just like some stuff.

Shaka Omari (38:54):
That's interesting, Cause in Pantheon I feel like
the main character and again,not giving anything away has a
moment at the end where theyhave to take accountability for
some of their decisionsthroughout the whole.

Charles Malone (39:05):
Like self-reflection, of looking in
the mirror.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, trueprogress comes from people

(39:41):
having self it or throughstepping outside of your comfort
zone.
You know you don't have tochange it, but at least you know
.
And I think what some peopledon't want to do sometimes is
like there's this pressure oflike once I acknowledge
something that I have to dosomething about it, and
ignorance is bliss.
So if I pretend this is not athing, then I don't have to do
something about it, andignorance is bliss.

(40:01):
So if I pretend this is not athing, then I don't have to do
anything about it.
Um, but, but yeah, I, I'mabsolutely, completely in love
with this show.
It's very black mirror, ghostsin the shell matrixy, all all
wrapped up into one raises thequestion too of like the movie
her.
Was that spike jones?
yeah, yeah, it's like if is itpossible for ai to one day
transcend and move on to theirown space of existing beyond the

(40:26):
servers?

Shaka Omari (40:26):
or maybe they find a place where they build their
own servers, where they canexist I mean that's a good
question because you know youwere talking about like there's
so many things you know we'rediscovering mathematically, I
guess with quantum physics andthings like that.
Like if everything is energy,at a certain point in time would
they become self-aware thatthey can just transverse the

(40:47):
energy based on I don't know,dark matter or just energy like
that, and they're just existing,as people like to say, instead
of using god, they say theuniverse.
So would you transcend to apoint where you were just part
of the universe?

Charles Malone (41:05):
That's one of the things that definitely has
me curious, like thetranscendence and the evolution
of AI, or possibility of becausethere's the Neuralink.
What's the other thing that'sup?
We're already trying to dobrain mapping, ai, consciousness
and the Neuralink, so are wetrying to get a form of of

(41:29):
uploaded intelligence somewheredown the road?
That's a serious maybe.
And I I stumbled upon acommunity of like vr chat with
people who essentially spendmost of their day in this vr
chat world where they have anavatar and they're spending five
tens of thousands of dollars onlike expensive rigs to live in
this world.
And some of these people youknow my gut I'm talking about my

(41:54):
gut was to judge of like dude.
I do want to live in the realworld, but I like pulled back
from a different perspective andwas like dude.
Imagine this is like someonereally lonely who feels
ostracized in the real world andmaybe they don't fit in and
inside this game or inside thisworld they found purpose and
like who am I to?

(42:15):
Like?
take that from anyone you knowwhat I mean, like if you find a
group where you feel acceptedand, yeah, it may not be what we
want to normalize as like ahealthy way of being, but for
you it's like life or death.
Like outside in the real world,I want to kill myself.
I have like no connections tothe media, people around me, and
here at least I have somewherewhere, like I died, I have a

(42:37):
purpose, had an existence, ormaybe someone who, like stephen
hawking maybe, was likequadriplegic or they can't, they
can't move and like to them.
We talked about freedom on thefirst episode and this is
freeing them from the physicallimitations of their body.

Shaka Omari (42:57):
I think I think more more people than we'd want
to admit to realize would takethat I think so because, to your
point, you're able to connectwith people, which is, I think,
what drives humanity, iscommunity, is connecting to
people, to finding a place thatyou belong and you can be
accepted with all your as youknow, the saying goes warts and

(43:18):
bumps, where you're not too tall, too short, your hair isn't the
right color, your eyes aren'tthe right color, you don't use
the right hand.
It's just my pure essence isaccepted, and I feel free that I
can express that without beinglimited by someone's other
perception or of what is correct.

(43:41):
Because when I learned that inancient times the left hand was
considered unclean becausethat's what you use to wipe your
butt with, I was like so whatif you're a left-handed person
Like you must feel completelyleft out because that's your
dominant hand, you know.
So the right-handers havebasically just excluded you from
society at a time where humansare dumb, the reason why we

(44:03):
exclude people.

Charles Malone (44:05):
You have brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes, red
, red hair.
That's why I love the rick andmorty episode when it was like
this go, nipple bitch, have nonipples.
Like you will find the thesmallest trivial thing to put a
person in a box and find areason to hate them for it's
that.
That's.
That's why I honestly like mysnap judgment was like this is

(44:26):
weird, why you're not living thereal world.
But then I started to like Icould see and think of people
who probably would, and I waslike you know what I'm the I'm,
I'm the asshole.
It's not bad sometimes.

Shaka Omari (44:39):
I wish more people would realize being the asshole
here and like.

Charles Malone (44:44):
Who am I to say that's the wrong way or the
right way to do a thing?
If you find purpose and it'snot hurting anyone, like it.
Literally you're not.

Shaka Omari (44:52):
You're like in your house on your vr rig, not
bothering a person doing a thingI think you know that takes a
certain level of self-awarenessand I commend you for that
because I think that's what alot of us we don't want to do
and I think it's weird.
It seems like the more we wantto be connected to people, the
more we judge people to try tofind the person we want to be

(45:13):
connected to, and we don't knowthat we probably would be
connected to that person if weweren't so judgmental all the
time.

Charles Malone (45:18):
That's why I said I'm not worried about the
GCBs, and if you don't know whata GCB is, just go and Google it
.
I think the more someone triesto be good, the more suspect I
am of them.

Shaka Omari (45:30):
Oh, a hundred, a hundred percent, because I don't
think you need to try to begood.
I think you just need to putyourself in another person's
shoes and you would actaccordingly If you don't like it
.
You probably shouldn't treatthem that way.
You should have a little bitmore understanding.
Okay, this is really funny.

Charles Malone (45:47):
Funny, not even a tangent.
But we we're talking aboutuploaded intelligence, we're
talking about ai.
We're talking about if thesethings like right now, ai, for
all that we know, doesn't have aconsciousness, consciousness,
and it's not self-aware thatthere's.
It may be a seem like sentience, but it's not.

(46:10):
There's nothing there right now.
But could it get there?
And I think, with the people,the joke they make I don't know
what button that is.
I'm going to try again.
Okay, I'm telling you that'snot intentional.

Shaka Omari (46:23):
I literally yeah, that was the right one.
Okay, damn.

Charles Malone (46:28):
At least I know where the crickets and the womp
womp is now.
Now I'm going to find aba-dum-bum.
But this thing of how to treatpeople.
I noticed that the majority ofpeople around me that is testing
out AI and if they're using the, the voice chat, are so

(46:49):
disrespectful, like the firsttime the, the conference of the
chat, gbt 4.0, came out andthey're like so, tell me a story
?
No, not like that, change it.
No, I almost felt like they'relike dumb fuck.
No, do it like this.
And I'm like well, if it didgain sentience, I see.
See why the term there exists.
Exactly, did we just forgetmanners?

(47:11):
Like yeah, I know it's not athing, but does it hurt you to
be nice?
Like it's like my mom saysabout faith right, like, again,
me and faith is a whole thinggrowing up in the church.
But there is something that shedoes have.
Right, like having faith costsyou nothing, but it could cost
you everything, not to right andI feel like that's just manners

(47:31):
as well, like it honestly costsyou very little to nothing to
just be nice, but you never knowif it's gonna cost you
everything not to.
And that means like treatingsomeone poorly who you just
don't know how bad their day isgonna be, or this ai that could
one day become sentient and justcome they're like y'all rude
fucks um exactly be like.

Shaka Omari (47:53):
You know what humans you are.
Your worst enemy I willeradicate you like ultron.
My sister and I have that samejoke where, just in case I know
this sounds like doom and gloom,but just in case, it does
become self-aware, because youknow, these people are
developing this thing everythingwe know about it.
As the both of us have workedin tech, we always know what the
what we see as the public.
They're usually five to tenyears ahead internally, so what

(48:18):
they may have been what theyhave with chat gbt is far
advanced than what they'vereleased to us.
So I don't know.

Charles Malone (48:23):
I mean it could become self-aware they just
wouldn't tell us until they'reready to.
Okay, I'm going to bring upanother Apple show that I think
is going to get canceled theMurder Bot.

Shaka Omari (48:33):
Yeah, yeah, I started watching that.

Charles Malone (48:35):
Yeah, but I could be wrong.
All right, I'm never, no one'salways right.
I thought Preacher was going toget canceled and it should have
, but it can be like fiveseasons or something like that.
Um, and I love the actor, wasit the?
Oh, I didn't watch it and Ididn't, I didn't.
Uh, he's in the devil's doubleand he plays a stark in star
wars.
He's a brilliant actor.
But the show itself I was likeI've really wanted like preacher

(48:58):
and I was like this is notgonna make it.
Also, badlands made it up likefurther than I thought I was
gonna make oh, I didn't, Ididn't watch bad, he had some
misses after the walking dead.
Um, but yeah it it.
It costs you nothing to to benice really there's.

Shaka Omari (49:13):
There's something that you said that I I really
put into my heart is uh, youknow, be nice to the people on
your way up, because they're thesame people that you meet on
your way down.

Charles Malone (49:22):
Yeah, I got a bunch of these things that I
want to just drop into my head.
Your life jacket only holds one.
Like you can't save anyone ifyou drown.
Um, you know, yeah, nothingbeats a failure but a try.
I know it seems silly, but itbreaks it down.
It's just really like give it atry Like you'd never know.
Try.

Shaka Omari (49:40):
Now I want to go back to what you were talking
about with the chat GBT andpeople you know using it and
talking to it like it's dumb andwhatnot, whatnot you and I have
talked about.
You know where AI is going, asfar as working in the
entertainment industry, andwe've seen, like recently, like
the whole Miyazaki thing withchat GBT, everyone started
making those kinds of promptsand things like that.
Have you yourself tested outchat GBT in any way Like I have?

(50:06):
Like there's been manyconversations I've had with it
it's.
I decided to ask it if it nameditself.
It did give itself a name.
I've asked it to help me with.
You know, like a letter I wascomposing just to see what it
could do.
One time I was on the way to aparty and I was feeling a little
bit of social anxiety you knowI'm an introvert and it kind of

(50:26):
walked me through it.

Charles Malone (50:27):
I guess I get it which.
I think there's two, twoquestions, or maybe it's a one
question with two phase answer.
You're asking like have I usedit professionally?
And personally creatively orfor work.
I mean, uh, both um you knowand actually there's a study
that's come out and hopefullyit's going to change as more

(50:48):
people start to like just use itand actually admitting out loud
that you use it.
It actually hurts youprofessionally because people
are still judging it.
Even though, like most GCBsbehind closed doors, they're
doing all those same sins.
So you know rules for the notfor me kind of deal, but let's

(51:09):
not go around throwing stoneswith all these biblical
references.
No, but just genuinely yes, Ihave.
I have asked it.
Really, my favorite thing to dowith AI is just ask it really.
Existential things AI still canbe wrong, but it's a great idea
generator.
Things ai still can be wrong,but it's a great idea generator

(51:34):
and it helps be a sounding board, knowing that this isn't
perfect and you shouldn't goahead and change your whole
belief system off of thatbecause, like they already
approve with ai, they have likeai bots in the reddit threads
and comments just seeing if itcan sway and change people's
opinions.
It absolutely can.
But if you're just using it tolike bounce ideas off of and

(51:59):
poke holes in your own argument,it's actually really really fun
.
But again, critical thinking isdying, so I'm actually really
worried.
I asked it about globalism Doesit think it's possible that we
can ever get to a place whereone unified government is a

(52:21):
planet?
And not in the sense because Ithink people think globalism
they think they're going to killand lose culture.
Globalism I think they weregonna kill and lose culture.
Is that like no, you can stillspeak your own language in your
company and still adhere andabide by a universal law of like
human rights.
We're just like.
Can we standardize human lightsglobally, um, and?

(52:42):
this is just fun thoughtexperiments, right, like I I
said, I think it's almost likeimprobable, but it's fun to be
like.
Could we, could we get there?
Does AI see a possibility basedoff of like what it's already
fed and it's spits back out somefun stuff and if you're using
it like that to me, you cangenerate a lot of fun ideas?

(53:03):
Absolutely.
There's already like jump cutmedia, which is something called
script sense that can give youAI coverage of a script or book
or anything you upload, theyhave to do it in like minutes
and people are using this Likethey're absolutely.
It's going to potentially hurtentry level and maybe junior

(53:24):
level executive jobs and wedefinitely need to find a way to
protect or keep some of thesejobs around and available.
I don't think it's going toreplace taste fully because,
again it's you don't like horrorfilms, so, like I have the
script, whether it's generatedby ai or not, it's not going to
be the right place for yourcompany because you don't do
horror, um, but uh, yeah, it's.

(53:46):
It's dumb to not use thesetools and then to be left behind
, well, behind closed doors.
Like you said, not only arecompanies five, ten years more
advanced than what's released tothe general public.
Corporations are already havingthese conversations behind
closed doors how much can welegally ship with AI and what

(54:08):
are the parameters and how do weget around it?
I won't say someone asked me ona regular thing like how do we
get around SAG?
I'm like you know you're askingme to do something that kind of
like I shouldn't be doing as anassociate, like they ask for
dumb shit.
They do so to think that theyaren't trying to figure out how
to monetize and use these thingswould just put you at a

(54:31):
disadvantage.
And stop being so precious andstart learning how to use the
tools.

Shaka Omari (54:41):
Agreed, agreed.
I think it's it's better toknow what you're dealing with
and what you can provide thatit's not able to like taste,
because that's just a humanelement that just comes from
your consciousness, than to tocompletely just stand on the
fence.
It is that thing, or, like it,car versus horse driven like.
At a certain point, it's betterto understand what its

(55:03):
capabilities are so you can putrules and regulations into place
places where we don't become,you know, the, the people in
wally, or vice versa.

Charles Malone (55:13):
They become so mean that it becomes sentient
and decides to murder us alllove wally also, just that my
kid watches it a lot and thevillain is just pretty much
based off of how for 2000 onespace odyssey, which is one of
my favorite films and I justyeah also americans, already
becoming WALL-E.
Let's be real.

Shaka Omari (55:32):
I can't disagree with that.

Charles Malone (55:36):
Yeah, pantheon starts all these questions and
it really reflects a lot of thestuff we're going through and
what it seems like we're goingas a society.
Yeah, it gets the gears turning, not necessarily in a doom and
gloom kind of way.
I think there's a lot of hope.
I'm personally working on theshort project that maybe is a
little idealistic, but how wecould like use ai to to help

(56:03):
humanity and hopefully that ai,fed the the data points, starts
learning that like right fromwrong, it's really quickly a
core like murder is wrong.
So then the matter of the raceis like murder is wrong, right,
it's a binary thing.
It's like murder yes or no, no,simple um.

(56:23):
So we start finding better waysto an ai realizes that it also
needs humans and we find a wayto coexist.
But again, I know it's a littlerose colored.

Shaka Omari (56:33):
Can I just say AI knows it needs humans, but not
like batteries in the matrix.
Just just want to put that outthere in case AI is listening.

Charles Malone (56:41):
You're so silly.
Uh, yeah, yeah, all of it.
All of it is just the, theethical part of it.
It's just it's, it's part of it, it's just it's fascinating To
me again, it's like severance.
We're in this unknown phase ofthings, we're figuring it out in
real time and just we hope wedon't screw ourselves.

Shaka Omari (57:05):
So I guess that leads to the question would you
upload yourself?

Charles Malone (57:10):
I'm still torn.
I I am strongly, stronglypulled by a, a overwhelming
sense of curiosity, just as aperson like one of my most
selfish wishes uh, I would neverdo it, especially now that I'm

(57:30):
a father, but I get why somepeople would would be just like
send me on a one way missioninto space because it's just
like what's out there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, Even evendeath.
There's just like this, thisoverwhelming like curiosity of,
like the things that are yet tobe discovered and like the
infinite possibilities ofuploading your mind is

(57:53):
fascinating.
But at the same time, though Iget how one life can be enough
for someone I'm leading, I willsay I'm teetering on on.
Yes, If I, if I was at the endof, really end of end of my life
done and like, if we play thegame of like what will we see in

(58:17):
another 50 years?
Let's just say I met, I met a94 year old gentleman that's
still like walking and doingstuff and I'm like all right,
I'm 37.
If I see like another 50, 60years of life, my opinion might
change.
True, that's a good way to lookat it.
And we don't know like can youthink about 50, 60 years?

(58:42):
Like the iPhone changed a lotin 10 years.
Like technology has changed,just from 2007 to now.
Right yeah, a lot.
Right, like AI was completescience fiction in 2005.

Shaka Omari (59:00):
To the general public right.
I think we've always beenworking on things.

Charles Malone (59:02):
I work with a gentleman who's been working on
VR since the 80s, so like thesethings have been around, but to
the general public, the conceptof it, like this is is science
fiction.
Ai, that would just do all thisstuff for you right, that's on
a consumer level, yeah, yeah andnow that's here and it's going
to disrupt the market the waythe, the app store did.
Yeah, like so, yeah, you justsocietal wise like I.

(59:27):
I, okay, y'all, you can flameme, I I used to talk so much
shit.
After the handmaid's tale comeout, women would be like, oh, my
goodness, this is so, so closeto home, like it's, like it's
eerie.
Because it's so, I was likeshut up.
It's not possible.
No way you're being so dramatic.
Fast forward to egg on my faceas I'm doing my apology tour of

(59:47):
like whoa, okay, we overturned.
Okay, it is close to home, Iwas wrong.

Shaka Omari (59:54):
I was wrong.
Yeah, I'm just giving you sideeye right now.

Charles Malone (59:57):
Yeah, Okay, but the ability to like, look and be
like, all right, I was wrong.

Shaka Omari (01:00:01):
Fair enough, Fair enough Like yeah.

Charles Malone (01:00:04):
So again, it's hard to say.
It's just like we could moveall past this in 50 years or it
could go horribly wrong and keepgoing backwards like what's
going on now.

Shaka Omari (01:00:13):
I never thought about it that way, you know,
yeah.

Charles Malone (01:00:18):
Okay, so then it's too soon to answer.

Shaka Omari (01:00:19):
So too soon for you to answer whether you would
upload.

Charles Malone (01:00:22):
But the curiosity, I think, is to get
the better of me.
Yeah, yeah, I could see thatabout you everything.

Shaka Omari (01:00:29):
Yeah, yeah, I could see that about you for sure, I
could see that.
Yeah, yeah, I like to play aflyer.
Yeah, I mean like the idea,like to your point, I've always
thought if we were able to dointerstellar travel, uh, when
I'm, if I'm 90, I love my family, if I have kids, grandkids or
anything like that, great.
But y'all don't need to see medie, I'm going to see space.

Charles Malone (01:00:46):
Yeah, that's that shoot me into space.
I like the viking send off oflike I'll put me on a ship and
burn me, but insteadchronogenically freeze me and
just shoot me off in space,hopefully, hopefully I know
drill science fiction hopefullyaliens find me and they like
resurrect me.
I'm like, oh shit, aliens existand they kill me.
I don't care.
But like that way, yeah um you,you said something like really

(01:01:08):
good, but my damn brain can'thold onto things.

Shaka Omari (01:01:14):
Yeah, I know, but it's fine Um for me, I guess, if
you're asking the question, Iguess I asked you, so I should
answer.
Yeah, yeah, would you upload?

Charles Malone (01:01:25):
I don't, I don't know.
Um, you, you said that youguess you would upload, right,
you don't, you don't know.
But what does uploading yourintelligence do to a lot of
people's religious beliefs?
If you're now uploading yourintelligence, that is a very
good question, because thenessentially, your body's just a

(01:01:48):
vehicle.
You take your consciousness andmove it to a computer.
I think how would peoplerationalize that with the belief
of a heaven or hell, becausethen you would never make it to
a heaven and hell.
If you're lit, you live forever.
But now I'm going somewherecompletely no, that you.

Shaka Omari (01:02:07):
So to answer the question of if I would upload,
since you answered and I asked,that is my hesitation Because,
the same way that you said, likeyou have curiosity about what
it would be as someone that hasthe faith that there is a heaven

(01:02:28):
and a, you know,interdimensional, being called
God.
For me I have curiosity in bothplaces, because I'm a tech nerd
but a man of faith.
So for me it would be.
I'm curious of, like, beinguploaded to a computer, what I
could do, how I could change mybody.
You know my consciousness.

(01:02:49):
The world is my oyster at thatpoint because whatever I think,
I can manifest and do.
But at the same time, what isheaven like if I naturally die?
Is it me being uploaded to adifferent server quote, unquote
where I have capacity to liveforever and do what I want to do

(01:03:09):
, except I'm doing it with theperson who built the program?

Charles Malone (01:03:13):
No answer, but this is like.
This is what I'm saying, likefor me it's.

Shaka Omari (01:03:16):
It's interesting thing because to upload to the
computer, the AI is basicallyGod in that world and I get to
upload into that world.
But the natural death isbasically the same thing as the
AI, because it's still myconsciousness, aka spirit, going
to the programmer of that world, which is God.
So, to your point, I think itis a split thing for people with

(01:03:38):
religious beliefs, because it'slike one you physically know,
because you know it's a computer, it's tangible.
The other is a faith-based,quote-unquote computer program.
And which, which leap of faithdo you take?
The one that you know or theone that you don't know, because

(01:03:58):
both of them are unknown onceyou get there if you get there,
I think the I can't speak forthe majority.

Charles Malone (01:04:06):
I don't, I don't , I don't know.
I will say I can see peoplechoosing what they know with an
asterisk.
I think self-preservation isreally strong within humans and
if there's another option todeath, I think more people than

(01:04:28):
would like to admit out loudwould probably take the uploaded
intelligence to escape deaththan go forth with their faith.
I think true faith is rare,yeah.

Shaka Omari (01:04:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't have anything to say to that.

Charles Malone (01:04:44):
I don't think there's answer to any of these
questions, but that's what makesthem fun.
Yeah, I know, I know, right,don't think there's there's
answer to any of these questions, but that's what makes them fun
.
Yeah, I know, I know, right,I'm not.
I'm not a physicist or the manof science, by by any means, but
this is what I imaginephysicists and, you know,
astrologists like when they likeexploring the excitement they

(01:05:05):
get about, like thinking aboutthe theories of black holes and
like the possibilities, becauseit's it's exciting yeah, yeah,
it's human curiosity, man, it'sgoing into the unknown, you know
.
That's why I like star trek, youknow yeah, all of the I mean
death space, and even I had thislike new, most recent, and I'm

(01:05:28):
going to wrap up here thefascination with the ocean.
Like some nonsense that we onlyexplored x amount of the ocean,
which means like there's somuch on this planet that's left
to discover, right, um, thatlike again, that we just don't,
don't know yeah, and I justsometimes wish we would just
slow down a bit and noteverything was about money, but

(01:05:49):
just just the universe thatwe're living in.

Shaka Omari (01:05:52):
I mean, we're such a small part of it.

Charles Malone (01:05:54):
Yeah, who knows, ai might help Terrence Howard
build Atlantis.

Shaka Omari (01:06:00):
You just got to shoot people.
Why is Terrence Howard catchingstrays?

Charles Malone (01:06:04):
Because I actually like Terrence Howard
movies but like the man is onsome other stuff sometimes.

Shaka Omari (01:06:13):
He's just got a wild imagination.
That's the only thing I can say.

Charles Malone (01:06:17):
Who knows, ai might prove that one plus one is
actually one.
Is that his thing?
All right, bro, I don't know.

Shaka Omari (01:06:25):
I did watch the Neil deGrasse take apart of his
thing, but after I was done Iwas like you know what Neil
deGrasse like take apart of histhing.
But after I was done I was likeyou know what, I'm not going
down this rabbit hole.

Charles Malone (01:06:33):
Like I just it's just recent that you know he
was on this whole Atlantis tripand the internet was on this
Aquaman.
I just love also pop culture.
Yeah, just how quickly they,because the one V, a hundred V,
one gorilla thing was hot for aweek and it's gone.

(01:06:56):
It's onto the next thing.
Trends man yeah, the way these,these things just viral things,
pop up and die so fast.

Shaka Omari (01:07:04):
Yeah, and just on that note, I'm not going to be
in that 100 fighting anycrazy-ass gorilla.
I'm just going to say thatright now.

Charles Malone (01:07:11):
Well, 100 dudes beat 100 gorilla easy, it's
just—.

Shaka Omari (01:07:17):
Charles, 100 dudes versus one gorilla.
Are you really going to tell meyou think they can win A
thousand percent, charles?
Haven't you seen a gorilla?

Charles Malone (01:07:24):
Yeah, no, bro, bro, I'm not saying that no one
will die and it's going to belike it's going to take that one
person or couple to go down,but overall, 100 v 1 gorilla
it's.
Yeah, 100 regular dudes beats agorilla.

Shaka Omari (01:07:46):
I don't know, because I feel like 100 regular
dudes will snap pretty easy.
The gorilla's not going to.
The human body's kind of prettyamazing too, the human body's
amazing.
The human threshold for pain isnot.

Charles Malone (01:07:59):
Yeah, well, I think they take it.
We're a little late to thisthing, but yeah, yeah.
It's about to come back aroundagain, I feel.
I think 100 V one AI AI wins.

Shaka Omari (01:08:11):
I've been on AI.
Yeah, I'm going to go for theWALL-E R2-D2 version of AI,
please.

Charles Malone (01:08:18):
No, I'm going Eagle Eye full open the pod bay
doors.
How AI just shuts everythingdown, we lose.

Shaka Omari (01:08:28):
Yeah, humanity.

Charles Malone (01:08:33):
So next time on the queue.
I guess what we have queued upfor the next time, as you wrap
this up, uh, we'll beintroducing a new segment that
I've been looking forward todoing scripts and sips.
We're gonna review a series thatwe both think that's also very
profounding and ask deepquestions about what's enough
while sipping on our favoritebeverage.

(01:08:53):
That kind of fits in theme withthe show.
Yeah, it's a new segment we'retrying out.
We hope everyone enjoys it.
But Scripps and Sips, coming atyou next time you want to hit
them with the follow me yet oh,yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaka Omari (01:09:08):
So on the social media we got the IG.
You can follow me at ShakaOmari O-M-A-R-I.
You can follow our productioncompany, openq, at OpenQ
Productions on IG and you canfollow Charles around the store.

Charles Malone (01:09:27):
My favorite is a grocery store.
I'll give you all the niceTrader Joe's snacks, but also,
you know, the.
The same deal with the, withthe YouTubes, the whole spiel.
You know the like subscribesSpotify.
Throw us on the.
Your queue, queue us up.

Shaka Omari (01:09:45):
I like that, see y'all next time.
All right, the open queue is anOpen Queue production.
If you like the show, be sureto follow, rate and review it on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify or yourfavorite podcast app, and tell
your friends and fam to do thesame.
Also, feel free to share a linkto someone you think might

(01:10:05):
really enjoy this conversationto someone you think might
really enjoy this conversation.
The music you're currentlylistening to is Custom Finish
from the TV show Pantheon,composed by Marco Beltrami,
brandon Roberts and Buck Sanders.
Until next time, see you in thequeue.