September 27, 2025 • 46 mins
The Overflow is a place for discipleship through conversation as we go deeper into Scripture,
stories, and struggles. We’re committed to loaves-and-fishes faith and jars-of-oil obedience. We
dive into relationships, current events, worldview, theology, church culture, and soul care, with
plenty of surprises along the way.
QUESTIONS:
- What does the word "overflow" mean in your spiritual life right now?
- Which of the categories (Relationships, Current Events, Worldview, Church, Bible and Theology, Soul Care) are you most excited to hear about?
- How do you navigate the tension between the pull of everyday life and what you know to be truth?
READ MORE ABOUT...
- Loaves and fishes in John 6:1–14
- Jars of oil in 2 Kings 4:1–7
- I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” in Exodus 3:6 and Matthew 22:32
- God blesses those who work for peace” in Matthew 5:9
- The human heart is the most deceitful of all things” in Jeremiah 17:9
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay. Welcome to the overflow.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Super, super fun.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is overflow one.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes. Episode one. First one.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
First of all, welcome, welcome, welcome,
welcome, welcome. And what wewanted to do in this first
installment is just walk throughkind of where we're going with
this thing. Like why are we evendoing this? There's a lot of
podcasts out there. There's somany podcasts out there.
There's pastors who podcast,there's influencers who podcast,
(00:48):
and I think it's helpful for usto just talk for two seconds,
why us, why now, what are wedoing?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right, well,
Speaker 1 (00:55):
think What are we doing,
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I mean, are we and what are we doing? So I think
that as we've talked about thisand dreamt about this, really,
it's funny, nothing has changedfor us in the over twenty years
that we've been a part ofKeystone Church, just the
methods have changed. That's Andthe tools and the vehicles, if
you will, has changed. Our heartfrom minute one has been, we
(01:18):
desire so deeply to share whoGod is, what he's done in our
lives and for that to overflowinto the lives of others. I
mean, there's so many excitingthings we're gonna cover.
And so I think a podcast is justthe next rendition, is
Speaker 1 (01:30):
that a word? Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think it is, rendition of getting that
message out, particularly toKeystone Church, that you would
be able to hear what God's donein our lives and what God's
placed in our hearts that wedon't have time to share every
weekend. We don't have time toshare in, you know, an
individual message. And so thus,the overflow.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah. And, you know, it's not like we're grabbing for
more platform or we're grabbingfor more influence. It it it is
just our whole prayer for alwayshas been, god, whatever
influence you have, whateveropportunities, doors that open,
we will only wanna walk throughthe doors that you walk through,
that you would open for us. And,when it comes to this podcast,
(02:16):
the overflow, you just saidsomething that I wanted to
address. And the first audienceYeah.
Of this podcast is KeystoneChurch. And that is we're
passionate about that. Anddefinitely we know already that
there are those who will belooking in from outside of our
local church, but the firstaudience, our first heart, our
(02:36):
first calling is the localchurch, and then our first
calling is to the local churchGod has asked us to lead and
that is Keystone Church. And sothat speak to that a
Speaker 2 (02:47):
little bit. Yeah. Well, absolutely. And what
excites me about what you'resaying is we know that God has
called us to Keystone Church.That's a priority assignment the
Lord's given to us.
But the big seed church, reallypeople everywhere, you know,
we're joining the podcast world,I guess you could say, but in my
heart of hearts and our heart ofhearts, the more, the merrier.
The more voices that arespeaking the truth that we all
(03:10):
so desperately need, you know,that Jesus is our hope, he's our
way, he's the truth, he's alive.The more voices, the better
because we have a world so darkand so deeply in need. So, yeah,
it starts with the church we'vebeen assigned and that we love
so dearly, wanting to bless yourlives, wanting to see your
families grow, wanting to passalong our wins, our losses, our
(03:32):
hits, our misses, in hopes toencourage you, but also to any
and every person that would belistening, God is for you and we
believe that the message he'splaced in our heart, we pray,
will just help you on yourjourney.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
The name, the overflow. Overflow. Let's talk
about that for a second. Thename, the overflow, why did we
name it the overflow?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Multiple meanings.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, we went through a lot of different conversations
just talking about, man, what isthis? And I'm a passionate
believer that when you namesomething, that's like a
biblical thing. In Genesis, Godnamed, God named, God named. So
when you put a name onsomething, it needs to ring
true. It needs to reflect thetruth.
(04:13):
And so we did a lot of heartdigging of what are we up to?
Like, why are we doing this?What are we doing? And really it
is an overflow of the content,the messages that God has given
us. Every church has a voice.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And it would take a lifetime of preaching, a
lifetime of teaching, a lifetimeof counsel, and you still
wouldn't scratch the surface ofthe truths of God. I mean, it is
a Mount Everest of truth andcontent and application. And so
for us, every church has a voicethat you take your journey up
(04:49):
that mountain, trying to coverit all, trying to cover as much
as you can, the whole counsel ofthe word of God. But we wanted
more. We wanted more than Icould preach on a weekend, that
you could teach to our women orthat you could preach on a
weekend more than what we couldcover.
Some of the insights that we'rehaving in smaller gatherings and
(05:09):
smaller meetings, some of thepeople that we've had the honor
of walking with that I thinkcould help others. And so the
overflow is for me, it's twomental images. It's loaves and
fishes and it's jars of oil. Andthat comes from two places in
scripture, one in the OldTestament, one in the New
Testament. The jars of oil iswhere that great prophet just
(05:32):
said put out a jar and fill itup with oil and it'll keep
overflowing, overflowing,overflowing.
And then when Jesus, you know,said they were all hungry and
what did they do? It was loavesand fishes multiplied over and
the baskets kept filling andfilling and filling. And so our
our prayer is whatever hasstarted on the weekend or in
(05:53):
those other rooms, that thiswould be an opportunity for more
of an overflow. Really is kindof a discipleship mechanism,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And the only way for that to honestly have any value
to you as you're listening andto our lives is that it's an
overflow of what Jesus is doingin our personal lives. You know,
you can't give what you don'thave. And so I know that for me
in my life, it's such a dailydeep reminder that I need the
(06:21):
presence of God fresh. Becauseif I don't have the fresh
presence of God, I may haveknowledge from my past or
experiences from my past, butit's gonna fall flat. We could
be, you know, the the bestspeakers in the world and the
and powerful delivery, butwithout the presence of God,
it's gonna hit a wall.
It's gonna hit a lid. And sopart of the overflow, we pray,
is just the honest sharing as wego of God's work in us and
(06:45):
that's gonna overflow, we prayand bless God's work in you. So
it's a layered, layered, layeredtitle. And on
Speaker 1 (06:53):
a heavy note, this is my favorite Yeti in the whole
wide world.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It matches your clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It does match.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Did you do it on purpose?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No, didn't. But this is absolutely my favorite Yeti
in the whole wide world. And Iwanna tell you why. I have not
been able to find a yeti thathad this camo. I can't find any
camo yetis that are out there.
Wow. But this particular sowhenever I go fishing, I was in
the Grand Canyon not too longago, this is the Yeti I take.
(07:24):
This is my bad boy. This is it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And it they don't sell them anymore?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I I can't find one anywhere. I can't find it on
eBay. I can't find it anywhere.I have tried everything, and I
cannot find it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Don't lose it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That's what I'm saying. I don't wanna lose it.
And so, this is our guest todayis Oh, yes. This is not a
product placement. Though thatwould be hilarious if that's the
way I
Speaker 2 (07:44):
did that. Ridiculous. Yes. No. I prefer pale lavender,
but that's different color Yeah.
Than yours.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah. That's a little that ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Not for you.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah. That ain't happening. You have a little
guest over there too. Why don'tyou show us your guest?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
My phone?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Nope. Oh. Show us your guest right there.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Show us your guest.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
That's neat.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's my guest. Show us your guest. This is always
with us. This is always with us.Explain.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It is what it is. I've had allergy shots for
twenty years. I took a break andthought to myself about year
fifteen, hey, I am cured. Andwent off of my allergy shots.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Mistake.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Big mistake. Came back with a vengeance. So you
know what? If I have to grab alittle tissue, thank you for
sharing this with everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, have our guests. Every week we'll have We
do different
Speaker 2 (08:39):
have a guest.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It could be a tissue box. Yes. It could be a Yeti.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And I do have my phone, here's why, not because
I'm gonna start texting whilewe're podcasting.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So you brought two guests.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But yes, but because so many times if something pops
in my head or heart and I thinkof a Bible verse and I'm like,
oh my gosh, we gotta talk aboutthis. I don't have the Bible
memorized. Yep. So we live in awonderful era where we can
Google it. So you'll see meGoogle.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Can I say something about that? Yeah. This is a
constant in our marriage is Iwill wreck scriptures I'm
confident I have memorized. Iwill wreck them.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Bless.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I know. It's true though, right? Like constantly
being corrected.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I'm trying not to correct
Speaker 1 (09:19):
you all Not the constantly.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But I mean, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah. Well, know, like, there's my brother Eric is
like this machine of scripturememorization. Todd Wagner, it
was a machine, pastor ToddWagner, machine of scripture.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Pastor Chris Seedman.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Chris Seedman is a machine of scripture. And I look
at those guys and I say, what iswrong with me?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You're an amazing preacher.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, appreciate you saying that, but I have to watch
it,
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's not just limited to scriptures, don't feel bad.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It is not. I'll get movie quotes a little off and
it's just, there's like aversion that
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I I'm think fishing stories are
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh, come on now.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
If you share my
Speaker 1 (09:58):
testimony That's little for far. What?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
When you share my testimony for me.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
This is true too. The funniest thing in the whole wide
world is whenever I'm on thestage and I'm in the middle, let
me just speak from this angle,this is my better angle, this is
the way I'm gonna be, wheneverI'm deep thought, I'm gonna give
you my better angle. But Susanwanted that side. But anyway
Speaker 2 (10:23):
because my hair's parted this way right now and it
gets in my face and it's I havelot of hair.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Y'all don't want to know
Speaker 2 (10:28):
all this? No.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When I'm on the stage and I had not prepared to tell a
story and it pops in my head andI'll share a story about you,
something you've shared with meor something like that, and I'm
out there and I will take aquick glance down.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Which I don't mind you sharing.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Of course, but I'll take a quick glance down and I
can read her that I am messingthis thing up and what are you
gonna do? You can't like, infront of everybody, say, oh, did
I get that wrong? And so
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I have visions in my head of like, hey, can I
borrow your mic and just tellthis one part?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
This is it, man. I always yeah. It's close though.
It's close. It's just a way thatI tell it or something.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's the realities of pastor family life.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, exactly. Okay, where were we? The overflow, so
it's loaves and fishes. It isjars of oil taking, and some of
this is just us. We're justkinda letting it go and being a
little raw.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But
Speaker 1 (11:33):
so it's jars of oil, it's loaves and fishes, and we
want that to multiply in yourlife. And again, as it hits
Keystone as a further buildingof the work that has been done
with our voice and the otherpastors' voices. But also, you
know, if it does move beyond,then wonderful. We'll allow God
(11:56):
to take it wherever he wants totake it and do whatever he wants
to do. We'll celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We'll celebrate that. So, all right, let's walk
through the categories. I'mgonna tell them all at once and
I have a cheat sheet down there,and then we're gonna go one by
one and kind of talk about whatto expect. So we boiled this
down that there's basically sixcategories that we are going to
be talk talking about regularly.And every time we gather, it
(12:23):
falls into these six categories.
Category number one
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I feel like we need seven to be holy.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Six categories. And category number one is
relationships.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Okay. Big, huge, huge. And talk
Speaker 1 (12:38):
to us about what kinda what they can expect
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
On relationships.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Well, we don't fully know what you're gonna need to
expect but all I know is we areso passionate about
relationships, starting with ourown, our own marriage. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (12:53):
you're gonna talk a lot about us.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, hello. When you are, if you're a human being,
you've got a story to tell andwe've got stories to tell. We've
been in our highs of highs andlows of lows, and every married
couple, there's going to be somuch that we hit on that I just
believe is gonna help us, isgonna help you. We wanna talk
about parenting. We wanna talkabout young moms and dads.
(13:14):
We wanna talk about teen momsand dads and grown adult kids
moms and dads. We wanna talkabout if you're dating right
now, I mean, just relationships.We wanna talk about friendship
because there's so muchpractical application straight
from the word of God that it'skind of an endless topic and
it's also endlessly needed. Weendlessly need to talk about it.
(13:36):
And so relationships, mark thatone as a big, big-
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, marriage, family, relationships, conflict
resolution would be big.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
If anyone knows me, I don't like, let me just clarify,
I don't like conflict, but Ilove resolution so much, I'll
walk in any room and I just loveempowering and equipping other
people to do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We have seen so much fruit at Keystone because of our
diligence with conflictresolution. This is something
that we train and equip. Wedon't like to use the word
train. Train a dog, equip aperson. But we equip Keystone,
we equip our pastors to doconflict resolution.
(14:20):
When we are hiring and we'relooking at someone and saying,
is God knitting you with ourchurch as a pastor? One of the
things we're looking for is howare you with conflict
resolution? Conflict resolutionis a big one. We'll be tackling
that topic soon. Yeah.
And God has given you a specialjust blueprint, a roadmap for
(14:46):
conflict resolution. And tell alittle bit about the the power
of what that's done for ourchurch.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, you know, God talks in the Bible about my
children work for peace, which Icould Google that right now and
find the verse, but go ahead anddo it right now. But he says, my
children work for peace. And sowhen we're following in his
design and his people and thechurch, we build up leaders and
we build up a culture that, youknow, we're not gonna be the
(15:13):
people who just cut others off.We're not gonna be the people
who just walk out of the room.We're not gonna be the people
who avoid conflict because it'sscary and it can be.
I don't care, even if you do itpartly for a profession, you
know, as a counselor, LPC,that's been part of my years and
years of interacting with othersis mediating and being involved
(15:33):
in those moments of conflict.But, and it can be scary, but
rather than run from it becauseyou can't avoid conflict, How
about let's learn God's designto pursue peace. Yeah. And not
only peace, but so it's sobeautiful when it goes even one
next step where it's peace andrestoration, peace and
(15:54):
reconciliation. And that's notalways available because we live
in a broken world and people,we're all broken and things, you
know, just aren't always thebest case scenario this side of
heaven.
But as much as it depends on us,Christ follower, we work for
peace.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
There's a lot of lies out there. Yeah. There's a lot
of lies about that and we wannaexpose those There's a lot of
broken paths even taught byChristian voices.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Well meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Well meaning Christian voices. And we really
wanna try to clarify what webelieve is a better way.
Marriage and Family, we have abook called Legacy That Lasts.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I like to say it's our heart on paper.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's our heart on paper.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
On audio.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And we'd encourage you, maybe we could have a link
for you to get that on Amazon.But we believe in this so much,
and the big, big truth was whereGod showed us this truth in
scripture where God over andover in the old testament, I am
the God of Abraham, Isaac, andJacob. I am the God of Abraham,
(16:58):
Isaac, and Jacob. Legacy,legacy, legacy. But then the
reality when we dove in,Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were
jacked up.
Yeah. And there's a lot ofdysfunction. So we tracked their
dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And then we saw Joseph come on the scene. And
Joseph's story actually resolvesevery one of those dysfunctions.
It is masterful in the word ofGod if you've not seen it. So we
went through that and thenlooked and extracted from all
that brokenness and thatredemption, all of that
(17:33):
principles and guidelines andhelp biblically Yeah. For
parenting
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And creating a legacy that will last.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes. Yes. And family culture that will last, that you
want to last. And throughoutprobably all a lot of our
conversations, because there'scertain themes in my heart and
in my life that God has justkinda burned into me. They'll
they'll come out over and overagain.
And even as you said that, oneof the themes is patterns. Yeah.
I I consistently, and maybe youtoo, the longer I go, the more
(18:03):
clients that I have had theprivilege to counsel, being in
this pastor role that you and Ihave the privilege to be in, and
even in our own family and ourown marriage, you see patterns
play out. With Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob, you saw patterns play
out that still play out. Yep.
And so sometimes we just think,oh, it's just me. I'm crazy. My
family's broken. What is wrongwith me? Well, spoiler alert,
(18:26):
there is something wrong withyou.
There's something wrong with allof us. And that's the message of
the gospel that there's a goodnews for the prophets.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Chapter one, we're all horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Oh, it is. I know we have to explain that later.
Yeah. Yes. Chapter one of Legacyof the Last.
We're all horrible.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
We're all horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
We're all horrible. But we are. But the reality is
is that God is putting us backtogether and the patterns that
the Lord is kind, if we haveeyes to see that he'll expose,
we can learn from. And itnormalizes the battle, but we
want I I don't believe we don'twanna be people who are normal
in this life because it's normalfor I've heard even higher
(19:03):
percentage, one out of twomarriages end in divorce. And
the fifty percent that are stillmarried, maybe twenty five
percent happily.
Like, we don't wanna be thenorm. We want to live in the
rare air of God's abundant morethan we could ask or imagine.
So, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Well, and I said I was gonna do all six at once and
then go one by one, then we justwent one by one, didn't we?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, we're gonna dive deep into that
relationship. But it's such a
Speaker 1 (19:27):
big Relationships, which is marriage, kids, all
that, we're gonna talk aboutparenting. We're gonna open up
the door for that. And thencurrent world events is another
one that we're gonna really lockin on. That's something unique
we really wanna speak to. Thingsthat are happening in our
culture.
Maybe not every single thing,but just the things that the
Lord says, hey, I'm compellingyou to speak. And on those, we
(19:52):
are going to venture into thatworld because God's called us to
be salt and light. Biblicalworldview, which is bigger than
world events. It's how to builda big, bold biblical worldview.
Church, we wanna talk aboutchurch.
Yeah, love church. We love thebride. We could talk about
church hurt. We could talk abouthow to avoid that. We'll talk
(20:13):
about that in a sec.
Biblical, the Bible andtheology, which there's deep,
deep truths that run throughthat that we wanna examine and
take a little more timeunpacking. And then the final of
the six would be soul care.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Soul care.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Counseling, stuff we see in psychology. You are a
twenty year practicingcounselor. Let's start there
just while we did relationships,let's briefly talk a little bit
about soul care.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, and can we just say the seventh category is the
spontaneous things that we'relike gonna have to say, I'm so
sorry that The that just
Speaker 1 (20:47):
seventh, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
See, that's a holy number and it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We can't prepare for
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Well, gonna have guests.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, guests.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But they make their way into all of these
categories. Yes. So you couldsay the seventh category is
guests if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Or miscellaneous ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, miscellaneous Then
Speaker 2 (21:03):
it's inevitably gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So talk to us a little bit, what can everybody
expect when we talk about soulcare? Just like we did with
marriage and family.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, so I think that we will delve into where does
psychology and the Bible meet?Where do how do you wrestle
through a society and a culturewhere when people know things
are wrong with me and and wantto get better, psychology has an
answer. Well, what about theBible? And so I think we'll
delve deep into that. And Imean, those are waters I love to
(21:35):
swim in.
It's, you know, deep insidethat.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Well, you've been practicing as a counselor for
over twenty years, maybe twentyfive years, something like that.
And we have, I'll say this, youwouldn't say, you've actually
taught in counseling conferencesand you've helped other
counselors. God's given youincredible truth. We have
incredible colleagues where youwill talk to them and just grind
(22:02):
on truth, just really justwhittle it down and get it
right. And so there's a lot thatwe have learned.
We wanna take some of thoseconversations and some of those
truths that we've learned andsome of the things happening for
soul care, one of the thingsthat I wanna talk about is the
idol of therapy.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah. Big time. This is whole podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, and might think, well, that's Brandon's
message. No. It's our message.Yeah. There's an idolatry of
therapy even in the localchurch, even with well meaning
Christian voices.
Sometimes I hear more aboutcounseling and therapy than I do
about Jesus. And that lendsitself to the main thing when it
comes to soul care. First ofall, soul care is important.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
But it is no substitute. It's not like you
divide your life. I'm gonna goto counseling and then I'll go
to church for my Jesus thing.No. No.
No. If your counsel is notcoming from the Holy Spirit,
from the word of God and fromthe power of the resurrected
Christ, good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'll give you an example of this that grieved my
heart so deeply. There was awoman years and years ago and
she had a family member that shewas very close to, and it was a
teenage girl, one of her familymembers. And she we knew this
family and she came to me andI'm counseling at the time and I
couldn't counsel them becausethey I knew them and there's
(23:23):
ethics involved with who I canand can't counsel. But she came
to me asking for direction forthis teenager, this girl who
desperately needed touch of Godin her life and needed healing
and just very broken familydynamics. So she comes to me and
I began to offer her severaldifferent avenues, biblical
(23:44):
counseling included, of just,you know, what I believed this
girl would benefit from.
And I often like to say, if youhave a child in crisis or if
you, you know, grown adults, wefind ourselves in crisis, layers
of support is so helpful. And soto have different layers of
support offers a building morestructure. Well, same thing with
(24:05):
a soul. And so these layers ofsupport included get your get
your girl in the church. Find astudent ministry where they are
surrounded with the things ofGod and community and leaders
speaking into them.
Get her in church. And I'llnever forget her words to me.
(24:26):
Yeah, well, we need professionalhelp. And I thought, oh, she's
lost if she follows your path.She is done for.
And I can say that as aprofessional, one of the first
things I tell you You're
Speaker 1 (24:42):
very successful too. I mean, you've an incredible
track record, you've helped alot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Thank you. Jesus. And I would just say, you know, if
somebody comes to my office thevery first time that we meet, we
talk about expectations and whatto expect. And I'm very overt,
every counselor has a theory andworldview from which they
counsel, everyone, every singleone. And so I'm very overt in
that first, you know,expectations conversation of,
(25:08):
hey, what are you expecting outof our time together?
Let me share some things I'mexpecting. And I'm quick to tell
them, you know, I pull myanswers from the word of God. I
can pull my answers from theBible. I don't have all the
answers. I've got my own issues.
I'll tell them. I don't have allthe answers, but I know the one
who does, and that's where wewill run together. And I'll lead
(25:30):
you there. And so, yeah, it's abig conversation and it's tough.
Just as recent as, I mean, thisis last week, I was looking for
counselors because I just thinkit's always good to have kind of
a ongoing, you know, who's inour area that's biblical, that's
Christian.
And we partner with a great, youknow, one great group in this
(25:51):
area. But I was looking and Iwas so sad. Like I could not
find anything close by. And Imean, maybe I missed, there may
be the name out there, like Idon't have a website. I just
have never taken that step.
It's been word-of-mouth. But somaybe there's great ones and we
just need to find you. But justgoing online, and as I began to
(26:12):
read the about and where do youpull your theory for help, how
to help someone, I was sodiscouraged that there's a
vacuum of biblical voices, andit's not sitting and preaching a
message. That's the other thingpeople think is, oh, are you
gonna come and hear a sermon?No.
When you open the word of God,just go read Proverbs. How
(26:34):
practical that God is with howlife is supposed to work and
does work. And the soul careelement for it to truly be care
and healing that lasts.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We talk about soul cares, all these other topics,
one of the things that is ourvision is that we would have,
our vision is that we would havelinks like if we have somebody
we wanna refer, here's a link,here's a link to this. And so
this actually becomes somethinglike I follow some phishing
(27:08):
podcasts and that kind of stuff.And one of the things I love is
when they're showing what theydo and then down below, you
could just click the link to thevery things that they're using.
And, and so when we haveresources or when we have those
kind of assets orrecommendations, we'll throw
those out. Yeah.
We may wanna talk about food atsome point. That's not one of
our categories.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Food. Yes. Could be the seventh one.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
The seventh is a big miscellaneous.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Big miscellaneous. Okay, another one that we've
already mentioned, but let's gointo just a touch more detail.
How about why talk about currentworld events? We're going to
address current world events.And I think my first stab at
that answer would be because thechurch is salt and light.
(27:58):
The church is a city on a hill.And to withdraw from the public
conversation is to leave peopletrying to figure out where they
are, and often they're left withthe voices that are very far
from the voice that you find inthe Bible. So current world
(28:22):
events. Now there's some it'sgonna get tricky and we're
probably gonna make people upsetbecause we're gonna come in I
keep hitting the mic, we'regonna come in, I use my hands,
it's just gonna Me too. We'regonna come in with some
opinions.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah. And we're not gonna get it all right. Just go
ahead, let's get thatexpectation up front. We don't
have all the answers. We're notcoming onto this podcast like,
oh, we've arrived.
So, you know, we don't wanna saywe're gonna make somebody mad,
but we will make, probably makesomebody And we may, we have to
may retract something, I don'tknow. Yes. But we're, I think
the heart behind the why isexactly what you said. If the
(29:00):
church isn't speaking to what'shappening in our world, who is?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You aren't.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Who is? Yep. It's the opposite. It's people who don't
know or love the word of God.And so God's people have to
respond, have to engage, have tohave to be both proactive and at
times reactive to the thingsthat are happening.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And this will that won't drive our conversations.
That'll be more of a we'recompelled, you know, or we just
we're so into it that we just,it's just an overflow of where
we're at. Yeah. But I am excitedabout that. And that leads us to
another big category.
There we are, there's yourfriend. There it is.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We decided to video and here we are. Look over
there.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah. Another big category that's married to that
is biblical worldview. I like tosay it, big, bold, biblical
worldview.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And that will clash into often, that will clash into
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Current events.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because it frames it.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You define a bold biblical worldview?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Can I give an example? Yes. All right, this
is, maybe some of you guys haveheard me share this. My kids
have been tortured their wholelives by this mindset. And I'm
just like, I don't even knowwhich one to pull from, but I'll
just pull from an easier one.
Back in the day, there was thisstore called Justice. It was so
fun. It was the best. But I wasthe mom who would walk my little
(30:31):
cutie kids over elementaryschool and younger or whatever,
over to the wall of t shirts andI would have them point out the
lies.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
The lies.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah. Or like Melina.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Like follow your heart was one of my, you know,
big ones. And you're like, why?That's so sweet. Because
Jeremiah seventeen:nine says,the heart is deceitful above all
things, desperately wicked. Whocan know it?
You know, again, we're notbashing humanity, we're simply
stating our diagnosis. And solet's not wear a t shirt saying
the opposite. Let's follow God'sheart, let's follow God's. So I
(31:07):
mean, my sweet children,
Speaker 1 (31:10):
it's The something technical term for this is
syncretism. It's something thatthe Old Testament Hebrews were
constantly, God was constantlypulling them away from this,
whether it's through hisprophets or whatever. It's
syncretism. It's where we have aform of religion or we wanna
follow God, but we're buyinglies from the culture Yeah. And
(31:32):
we marry it into our walk withthe Lord.
And part of the calling for aprophetic ministry, and that's
part of what we do, part of thatcalling is to call out the
secretism. Yeah. To extract theidols, extract the, you know,
scrub out the filth, you know,and those cultural lies. To
(31:56):
identify a lie, you have to knowthe truth. Yeah.
You know, that's old counterfeitanalogy. What do they do to
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard it a
million times.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
To the dollar bill.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah. How do you know you have a fake $100 bill? Well,
train them with the real thingand then they can really discern
what discern. Discern. That's mykids are all over me about this
word.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Okay. We don't know why that discern turned into?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Discern. Nope. I use a Z not an S. I've been trying
to correct myself.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I thought you try. You were dis you did discerning
Not this
Speaker 1 (32:30):
too late, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, or the other weekend?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah. Anyway, so to I don't even know what I was
saying.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I'm sorry, that threw us all off. Was worldview.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I'm talking about big bold biblical worldviews
syncretism. Syncretism. And todiscern what is The more you
have a big bold biblicalworldview, you can discern the
lies from the culture. And wefeel a calling to that. And one
of the things that God has justdone through a heart that we
(33:03):
have, we have a heart for a lotof things, but one of our
passions is the younggeneration.
We're so passionate about theyoung generation. And I was
looking around, this is before2020, but definitely around
2020. I was looking around and Iwas beginning to realize that we
had always believed in a bigbold biblical worldview, but we
(33:26):
began to really become convictedthat if we did not share and
clearly teach a big boldbiblical worldview to the young
generation, then they werequickly being scooped up with
massive lies and the erosionculturally of lies was happening
(33:47):
so quickly. I think a lot ofparents don't have a clue how
bad it is with the younggeneration because they're not
talking and they're not hearingit. When you begin, 20 just
broke it open when parents beganto understand what their kids
were learning and began to say,woah, these influences are being
not only discussed among teensand social media, but maybe even
(34:11):
some stuff happening in schoollibraries and blah blah blah.
All of a sudden you're like,woah, wait a second. This needs
a correction. We're gonna beteaching a big bold biblical
worldview, which marriesbeautifully with that cultural
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Use current that worldview, yeah, to have the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
We wanna talk about the Bible and theology, which
again marries with that boldbiblical worldview, but Bible
and theology, there's just somestuff. Like, we wanna go
headlong into some heavy stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Like, we really wanna dive in to some of the
controversies that arehappening. Like right now,
there's a big war it seemsbetween and I'm gonna throw out
some words. We're not gonnaexplain it all right now. But
like dispensationalism versusother interpretations,
preterism, I don't know ifthat's the way it's said,
(35:04):
preterist view of understanding.The end times, like the end
times, like how do you which isright and what is right?
And this is what I've beentaught, and this is what is a
conservative biblical strongview. We're gonna talk about
that. I wanna talk about thatthere's different ideas on how
(35:25):
you're saved and what salvationlooks like. We're gonna talk
about the Holy Spirit. One ofthe things that we wanna make
sure, it's interesting, we are achurch that's always believed
you don't have to choose.
You don't have to choose.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Explain that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Okay, so like we can talk about the Holy Spirit and
we are a strong Bible church,you know? We preach like a Bible
church, but we'll preach theHoly Spirit and the power of the
Holy Spirit and the gifts of theHoly Spirit.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And the experience of
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, the Holy the topics that we've talked about
we wanna do is our journey inthe Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1 (36:05):
whole And the truth of it is it's not the friends we
were running with, It's not thechurch we went to. We started
Keystone. Our journey in theHoly Spirit is our journey in
the word of God. And so we wannatalk about that coming from
both, from different corners ofthe Baptist expressions. There's
(36:26):
a lot of diversity in Baptistworld.
But from that, which there'ssome things we really love about
our heritage and all that, we'lltalk about that and honor it.
But also just where the Biblehas taken us on our journey in
the Holy Spirit. So we'll talkabout Bible and I can't either.
(36:48):
How to read the Bible for allit's worth. There's some wrong
ways to read the Bible, there'ssome right ways to read the
Bible.
Maybe correcting some stuff outthere, like some stuff that's
just a little loose. Again,we're not gonna be haterade on
other pastors and all that. Myexperience with pastors is
there's very few that are justreally bad dudes. Most pastors
(37:11):
are really great guys that wannaget it right. Without naming
names, we might address some ofthe things that I'm worried
about.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Themes, patterns.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Themes and patterns that are worth exploring and
helping the church to see itwhen it's there. Maybe with some
grace and charity.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah. Can I just say along that these lines, you
know, part of it, as you listento us, we're hoping to impart on
you just skills for your ownlife? Because guess what? We're
not the ninja Christian. Youhave the Holy Spirit of God,
right?
I mean, we each, one of us havethe Holy Spirit of God inside of
us. And while God does callleaders, He does call pastors,
(37:54):
and we'll talk about that too.And there is a role there that
is to be honored and to beunderstood of a pastor's role.
Each of us that are Christfollowers, we have the Holy
Spirit inside of us, all thepower that the Holy Spirit
brings available to us. And soas we talk about how we navigate
world situations or messagingthat we're hearing, we're so
(38:16):
excited that you can too.
Yeah. That you can do that inyour own life with your own
family. It's just something wehope that will overflow.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yes, final category, church.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Wait, is this six or seven?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
This is the sixth category and the seventh is
whatever. On the seventh. Theseventh is whatever. But the
sixth category is church. Yeah.
And one of the things, one ofthe early topics we're gonna hit
is church hurt.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
That's definitely, you know, happening in our
culture.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And it's a buzzword right now.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And it is a buzzword.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Side note, it's always interesting when
buzzwords begin. It's just like,think if you start to hear any
kind of buzzword, period, likechurch heard, that's one. But
you hear a buzzword in ourculture, lean in and dig deep
and ask who is the messenger?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah. What's the spirit of the buzzword of What's
the of the
Speaker 2 (39:12):
spirit of the buzzword?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Often it is so cynical. Often it is so
negative. Yeah. And there'sjust, there's, you know, look,
clicks happen with negativity.People are so much more prone to
run to the accident and to theheadline and the negative and
the drama than they are theencouraging, building, and the
(39:38):
move forward.
But I agree, we've never spokenof this about that, about the
buzzword. You're so right.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Think about it. I mean, spoiler alert, but there
are only two places that amessage big picture ultimately
comes from.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's either coming from the creator of our
universe, coming from our God.Right. God of the Bible, or it's
coming from the enemy. Yeah. Andthe Bible says every person
belongs to one of those two.
You either belong to God and youare his, or you belong to the
enemy. Now some of us who belongto God are sleeping with the
(40:16):
enemy, no pun intended, but weare in, you know, we are in the
wrong space going back to ourchains and back to enemy voice.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
He can't have you, but he can use you.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, and so, yes. And so, you know, when it comes
to the buzzword, again, it's notthrowing everything out and
saying everything's terrible.No, it's like, where's this
message coming from? Because Iwanna make sure I'm aligned, I'm
aligned with the messenger whois God.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Well, and part of our heart is like, you know, what
kinda church do we wanna have? Imean, what kind of church do we
wanna be? What kind of church dowe see? You know, is it cynical,
you know, kind of looking ateverything through this kind of
wary eyes? Or, you know, isthere another option?
And we've already said thatwe're not in la la land, we want
(41:07):
to live in the truth, this isour vision even if the truth is
difficult,
Speaker 2 (41:13):
but That's a whole, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
That's a whole thing, but cynicism, church hurt, all
those buzzwords, that's sohelpful. But also in church, we
want to advance kind of a newway. There's a lot of question
about how church should be done.We want to talk about that. We
want to talk about why we dosome of the things we do and
equip you with the reason behindsome of the things we do at
(41:37):
Keystone what it is, and thatoften it's thought out.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Like we're not, like if you say, hey, you know, I
really didn't like when thathappened. I'm sure y'all just
didn't think about it. And ouranswer may be, actually we
thought about it a lot. Yeah.And the truth is maybe you
haven't heard anotherperspective and you've fallen
into this quicksand of cynicism.
But we do have some thoughts.Some of our values, for example,
(42:04):
we wanna talk about production.There's a lot of cynicism around
production. We wanna talk aboutwhy, why the production? Why do
we have LED?
Why do we have screens? Why allthat? We wanna talk about that.
We wanna talk about buildingsand big beautiful buildings. Why
would you have big beautifulbuildings in a day and age
(42:24):
that's very cynical amongcertain corners.
Why do that? By the way, I'venever come across someone who
I've talked to out there that isoffended by Keystone's building,
is beautiful. It's it's it'soften these corners of cynical
Christianity, and that's reallyinteresting to me.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
There's a theology that they've latched onto.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah. Self made or
Speaker 2 (42:49):
distorted or who knows?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah. We'll talk about that. Values. There's a
lot of values out there that wewanna address. Yeah.
And that really explain who weare and we want to advance that.
And if there's pastors thatwould listen in, maybe could
give you language for what youknow is true and it could help
you explain it and so that itcould put out that little kind
(43:11):
of be an antibiotic for thebacteria of cynicism and
negativity in the church, giveyou honoring language to help
others. Again, we don't wanna beshocking for shock's sake to get
headlines. We don't want to justget a crowd and clicks by sound
(43:32):
bites. We really just wanna doour thing.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Just wanna help.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
We wanna help. That's right. We wanna help and we
wanna get some things off ourchest.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yes, we do. And I will circle back real quick on
the church hurt because we'll doa whole podcast, if not more,
but on that and just to tie abow on that, we both utterly
acknowledge that people get hurt
Speaker 1 (43:49):
in church. Absolutely. We've been hurt in
church.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We've been deeply hurt in church. And the reality
is not that you can avoid churchhurt, but it's how to navigate
it and how to understand it. Andagain, that goes to a biblical
worldview when you understandit. It helps you know what the
next steps look like. But Godloves his bride and even when
she falls down and scrapes herknee or she's going through a
rough patch, he loves his brideand we wanna be people who love
(44:15):
her too.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
So good.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Where The seventh, can I just say the seventh? Can
I
Speaker 1 (44:19):
do Okay?
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I'm driving you because
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I'm driving you crazy. It's our miscellaneous
category.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
It's just the miscellaneous also expectation
is sometimes you may take awhole podcast and it's just you,
or I may take a whole podcast.Absolutely. We may have a friend
join you or a friend join me orsomeone else will have more
Speaker 1 (44:35):
than Right.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
So it's kind of the unexpected. There's gonna be
ready. Yeah, be ready.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It's so good. And one last word, we are right now in
the Spurgeon Room. Oh. Yep, I'venamed it. This is the Spurgeon
Room.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
This now you named it?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
No, I've been talking, I've been on this. So
an explanation of kind of thespace that we're in, while
there's right here is MatthewHenry's expository works. That
is the only thing I think of. Ithink that's the only book in
here that's not a Spurgeon book.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah. This is all Spurgeon. And so this is kind of
the Spurgeon room with a fewlittle exceptions, but I mean,
just look around. It's like
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah. All I guess ours? It's How we've been
married twenty
Speaker 1 (45:18):
And and let me say it was a generous gift. I mean, a
lot of this was a generous giftfrom a friend and he just wanted
to do it. And I was like,absolutely, I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Isn't that great? I love Spurgeon. Maybe that would
be another one that I'll just doa whole thing on why I love
Spurgeon.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
That's category seven.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
That's category.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Wait, have we been married twenty six or twenty
seven years?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
We have been married twenty seven years.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Okay, twenty seven years. I didn't know about our
Spurgeon.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I know. This is amazing. I mean, start, look,
Spurgeon.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Special.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Sword and Trowel, sword and Trowel, sword and
Trowel, sword and Trowel, swordand Trowel, those are all sword
and the trowel. I mean, justlook around. There it is.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So good. And Spurgeon, he's overflowed into
this room. Yeah. We're That'sgonna continue to overflow.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah. Alright. So we'll see you next time on the
overflow. Can't wait. Wanted todo a little intro, get you
ready, and we're diving in nexttime.
So we'll see you in theoverflow.
Okay. Welcome to the overflow.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Super, super fun.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is overflow one.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yes. Episode one. First one.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
First of all, welcome, welcome, welcome,
welcome, welcome. And what wewanted to do in this first
installment is just walk throughkind of where we're going with
this thing. Like why are we evendoing this? There's a lot of
podcasts out there. There's somany podcasts out there.
There's pastors who podcast,there's influencers who podcast,
(00:48):
and I think it's helpful for usto just talk for two seconds,
why us, why now, what are wedoing?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right, well,
Speaker 1 (00:55):
think What are we doing,
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I mean, are we and what are we doing? So I think
that as we've talked about thisand dreamt about this, really,
it's funny, nothing has changedfor us in the over twenty years
that we've been a part ofKeystone Church, just the
methods have changed. That's Andthe tools and the vehicles, if
you will, has changed. Our heartfrom minute one has been, we
(01:18):
desire so deeply to share whoGod is, what he's done in our
lives and for that to overflowinto the lives of others. I
mean, there's so many excitingthings we're gonna cover.
And so I think a podcast is justthe next rendition, is
Speaker 1 (01:30):
that a word? Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think it is, rendition of getting that
message out, particularly toKeystone Church, that you would
be able to hear what God's donein our lives and what God's
placed in our hearts that wedon't have time to share every
weekend. We don't have time toshare in, you know, an
individual message. And so thus,the overflow.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah. And, you know, it's not like we're grabbing for
more platform or we're grabbingfor more influence. It it it is
just our whole prayer for alwayshas been, god, whatever
influence you have, whateveropportunities, doors that open,
we will only wanna walk throughthe doors that you walk through,
that you would open for us. And,when it comes to this podcast,
(02:16):
the overflow, you just saidsomething that I wanted to
address. And the first audienceYeah.
Of this podcast is KeystoneChurch. And that is we're
passionate about that. Anddefinitely we know already that
there are those who will belooking in from outside of our
local church, but the firstaudience, our first heart, our
(02:36):
first calling is the localchurch, and then our first
calling is to the local churchGod has asked us to lead and
that is Keystone Church. And sothat speak to that a
Speaker 2 (02:47):
little bit. Yeah. Well, absolutely. And what
excites me about what you'resaying is we know that God has
called us to Keystone Church.That's a priority assignment the
Lord's given to us.
But the big seed church, reallypeople everywhere, you know,
we're joining the podcast world,I guess you could say, but in my
heart of hearts and our heart ofhearts, the more, the merrier.
The more voices that arespeaking the truth that we all
(03:10):
so desperately need, you know,that Jesus is our hope, he's our
way, he's the truth, he's alive.The more voices, the better
because we have a world so darkand so deeply in need. So, yeah,
it starts with the church we'vebeen assigned and that we love
so dearly, wanting to bless yourlives, wanting to see your
families grow, wanting to passalong our wins, our losses, our
(03:32):
hits, our misses, in hopes toencourage you, but also to any
and every person that would belistening, God is for you and we
believe that the message he'splaced in our heart, we pray,
will just help you on yourjourney.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
The name, the overflow. Overflow. Let's talk
about that for a second. Thename, the overflow, why did we
name it the overflow?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Multiple meanings.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, we went through a lot of different conversations
just talking about, man, what isthis? And I'm a passionate
believer that when you namesomething, that's like a
biblical thing. In Genesis, Godnamed, God named, God named. So
when you put a name onsomething, it needs to ring
true. It needs to reflect thetruth.
(04:13):
And so we did a lot of heartdigging of what are we up to?
Like, why are we doing this?What are we doing? And really it
is an overflow of the content,the messages that God has given
us. Every church has a voice.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And it would take a lifetime of preaching, a
lifetime of teaching, a lifetimeof counsel, and you still
wouldn't scratch the surface ofthe truths of God. I mean, it is
a Mount Everest of truth andcontent and application. And so
for us, every church has a voicethat you take your journey up
(04:49):
that mountain, trying to coverit all, trying to cover as much
as you can, the whole counsel ofthe word of God. But we wanted
more. We wanted more than Icould preach on a weekend, that
you could teach to our women orthat you could preach on a
weekend more than what we couldcover.
Some of the insights that we'rehaving in smaller gatherings and
(05:09):
smaller meetings, some of thepeople that we've had the honor
of walking with that I thinkcould help others. And so the
overflow is for me, it's twomental images. It's loaves and
fishes and it's jars of oil. Andthat comes from two places in
scripture, one in the OldTestament, one in the New
Testament. The jars of oil iswhere that great prophet just
(05:32):
said put out a jar and fill itup with oil and it'll keep
overflowing, overflowing,overflowing.
And then when Jesus, you know,said they were all hungry and
what did they do? It was loavesand fishes multiplied over and
the baskets kept filling andfilling and filling. And so our
our prayer is whatever hasstarted on the weekend or in
(05:53):
those other rooms, that thiswould be an opportunity for more
of an overflow. Really is kindof a discipleship mechanism,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And the only way for that to honestly have any value
to you as you're listening andto our lives is that it's an
overflow of what Jesus is doingin our personal lives. You know,
you can't give what you don'thave. And so I know that for me
in my life, it's such a dailydeep reminder that I need the
(06:21):
presence of God fresh. Becauseif I don't have the fresh
presence of God, I may haveknowledge from my past or
experiences from my past, butit's gonna fall flat. We could
be, you know, the the bestspeakers in the world and the
and powerful delivery, butwithout the presence of God,
it's gonna hit a wall.
It's gonna hit a lid. And sopart of the overflow, we pray,
is just the honest sharing as wego of God's work in us and
(06:45):
that's gonna overflow, we prayand bless God's work in you. So
it's a layered, layered, layeredtitle. And on
Speaker 1 (06:53):
a heavy note, this is my favorite Yeti in the whole
wide world.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It matches your clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It does match.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Did you do it on purpose?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No, didn't. But this is absolutely my favorite Yeti
in the whole wide world. And Iwanna tell you why. I have not
been able to find a yeti thathad this camo. I can't find any
camo yetis that are out there.
Wow. But this particular sowhenever I go fishing, I was in
the Grand Canyon not too longago, this is the Yeti I take.
(07:24):
This is my bad boy. This is it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And it they don't sell them anymore?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I I can't find one anywhere. I can't find it on
eBay. I can't find it anywhere.I have tried everything, and I
cannot find it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Don't lose it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That's what I'm saying. I don't wanna lose it.
And so, this is our guest todayis Oh, yes. This is not a
product placement. Though thatwould be hilarious if that's the
way I
Speaker 2 (07:44):
did that. Ridiculous. Yes. No. I prefer pale lavender,
but that's different color Yeah.
Than yours.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah. That's a little that ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Not for you.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah. That ain't happening. You have a little
guest over there too. Why don'tyou show us your guest?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
My phone?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Nope. Oh. Show us your guest right there.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Show us your guest.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
That's neat.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's my guest. Show us your guest. This is always
with us. This is always with us.Explain.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It is what it is. I've had allergy shots for
twenty years. I took a break andthought to myself about year
fifteen, hey, I am cured. Andwent off of my allergy shots.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Mistake.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Big mistake. Came back with a vengeance. So you
know what? If I have to grab alittle tissue, thank you for
sharing this with everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, have our guests. Every week we'll have We
do different
Speaker 2 (08:39):
have a guest.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It could be a tissue box. Yes. It could be a Yeti.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And I do have my phone, here's why, not because
I'm gonna start texting whilewe're podcasting.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So you brought two guests.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But yes, but because so many times if something pops
in my head or heart and I thinkof a Bible verse and I'm like,
oh my gosh, we gotta talk aboutthis. I don't have the Bible
memorized. Yep. So we live in awonderful era where we can
Google it. So you'll see meGoogle.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Can I say something about that? Yeah. This is a
constant in our marriage is Iwill wreck scriptures I'm
confident I have memorized. Iwill wreck them.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Bless.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I know. It's true though, right? Like constantly
being corrected.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I'm trying not to correct
Speaker 1 (09:19):
you all Not the constantly.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But I mean, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah. Well, know, like, there's my brother Eric is
like this machine of scripturememorization. Todd Wagner, it
was a machine, pastor ToddWagner, machine of scripture.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Pastor Chris Seedman.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Chris Seedman is a machine of scripture. And I look
at those guys and I say, what iswrong with me?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You're an amazing preacher.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, appreciate you saying that, but I have to watch
it,
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's not just limited to scriptures, don't feel bad.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It is not. I'll get movie quotes a little off and
it's just, there's like aversion that
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I I'm think fishing stories are
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh, come on now.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
If you share my
Speaker 1 (09:58):
testimony That's little for far. What?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
When you share my testimony for me.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
This is true too. The funniest thing in the whole wide
world is whenever I'm on thestage and I'm in the middle, let
me just speak from this angle,this is my better angle, this is
the way I'm gonna be, wheneverI'm deep thought, I'm gonna give
you my better angle. But Susanwanted that side. But anyway
Speaker 2 (10:23):
because my hair's parted this way right now and it
gets in my face and it's I havelot of hair.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Y'all don't want to know
Speaker 2 (10:28):
all this? No.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When I'm on the stage and I had not prepared to tell a
story and it pops in my head andI'll share a story about you,
something you've shared with meor something like that, and I'm
out there and I will take aquick glance down.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Which I don't mind you sharing.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Of course, but I'll take a quick glance down and I
can read her that I am messingthis thing up and what are you
gonna do? You can't like, infront of everybody, say, oh, did
I get that wrong? And so
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I have visions in my head of like, hey, can I
borrow your mic and just tellthis one part?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
This is it, man. I always yeah. It's close though.
It's close. It's just a way thatI tell it or something.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's the realities of pastor family life.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, exactly. Okay, where were we? The overflow, so
it's loaves and fishes. It isjars of oil taking, and some of
this is just us. We're justkinda letting it go and being a
little raw.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But
Speaker 1 (11:33):
so it's jars of oil, it's loaves and fishes, and we
want that to multiply in yourlife. And again, as it hits
Keystone as a further buildingof the work that has been done
with our voice and the otherpastors' voices. But also, you
know, if it does move beyond,then wonderful. We'll allow God
(11:56):
to take it wherever he wants totake it and do whatever he wants
to do. We'll celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We'll celebrate that. So, all right, let's walk
through the categories. I'mgonna tell them all at once and
I have a cheat sheet down there,and then we're gonna go one by
one and kind of talk about whatto expect. So we boiled this
down that there's basically sixcategories that we are going to
be talk talking about regularly.And every time we gather, it
(12:23):
falls into these six categories.
Category number one
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I feel like we need seven to be holy.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Six categories. And category number one is
relationships.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Okay. Big, huge, huge. And talk
Speaker 1 (12:38):
to us about what kinda what they can expect
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
On relationships.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Well, we don't fully know what you're gonna need to
expect but all I know is we areso passionate about
relationships, starting with ourown, our own marriage. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (12:53):
you're gonna talk a lot about us.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, hello. When you are, if you're a human being,
you've got a story to tell andwe've got stories to tell. We've
been in our highs of highs andlows of lows, and every married
couple, there's going to be somuch that we hit on that I just
believe is gonna help us, isgonna help you. We wanna talk
about parenting. We wanna talkabout young moms and dads.
(13:14):
We wanna talk about teen momsand dads and grown adult kids
moms and dads. We wanna talkabout if you're dating right
now, I mean, just relationships.We wanna talk about friendship
because there's so muchpractical application straight
from the word of God that it'skind of an endless topic and
it's also endlessly needed. Weendlessly need to talk about it.
(13:36):
And so relationships, mark thatone as a big, big-
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, marriage, family, relationships, conflict
resolution would be big.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
If anyone knows me, I don't like, let me just clarify,
I don't like conflict, but Ilove resolution so much, I'll
walk in any room and I just loveempowering and equipping other
people to do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We have seen so much fruit at Keystone because of our
diligence with conflictresolution. This is something
that we train and equip. Wedon't like to use the word
train. Train a dog, equip aperson. But we equip Keystone,
we equip our pastors to doconflict resolution.
(14:20):
When we are hiring and we'relooking at someone and saying,
is God knitting you with ourchurch as a pastor? One of the
things we're looking for is howare you with conflict
resolution? Conflict resolutionis a big one. We'll be tackling
that topic soon. Yeah.
And God has given you a specialjust blueprint, a roadmap for
(14:46):
conflict resolution. And tell alittle bit about the the power
of what that's done for ourchurch.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, you know, God talks in the Bible about my
children work for peace, which Icould Google that right now and
find the verse, but go ahead anddo it right now. But he says, my
children work for peace. And sowhen we're following in his
design and his people and thechurch, we build up leaders and
we build up a culture that, youknow, we're not gonna be the
(15:13):
people who just cut others off.We're not gonna be the people
who just walk out of the room.We're not gonna be the people
who avoid conflict because it'sscary and it can be.
I don't care, even if you do itpartly for a profession, you
know, as a counselor, LPC,that's been part of my years and
years of interacting with othersis mediating and being involved
(15:33):
in those moments of conflict.But, and it can be scary, but
rather than run from it becauseyou can't avoid conflict, How
about let's learn God's designto pursue peace. Yeah. And not
only peace, but so it's sobeautiful when it goes even one
next step where it's peace andrestoration, peace and
(15:54):
reconciliation. And that's notalways available because we live
in a broken world and people,we're all broken and things, you
know, just aren't always thebest case scenario this side of
heaven.
But as much as it depends on us,Christ follower, we work for
peace.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
There's a lot of lies out there. Yeah. There's a lot
of lies about that and we wannaexpose those There's a lot of
broken paths even taught byChristian voices.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Well meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Well meaning Christian voices. And we really
wanna try to clarify what webelieve is a better way.
Marriage and Family, we have abook called Legacy That Lasts.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I like to say it's our heart on paper.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's our heart on paper.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
On audio.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And we'd encourage you, maybe we could have a link
for you to get that on Amazon.But we believe in this so much,
and the big, big truth was whereGod showed us this truth in
scripture where God over andover in the old testament, I am
the God of Abraham, Isaac, andJacob. I am the God of Abraham,
(16:58):
Isaac, and Jacob. Legacy,legacy, legacy. But then the
reality when we dove in,Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were
jacked up.
Yeah. And there's a lot ofdysfunction. So we tracked their
dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And then we saw Joseph come on the scene. And
Joseph's story actually resolvesevery one of those dysfunctions.
It is masterful in the word ofGod if you've not seen it. So we
went through that and thenlooked and extracted from all
that brokenness and thatredemption, all of that
(17:33):
principles and guidelines andhelp biblically Yeah. For
parenting
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And creating a legacy that will last.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes. Yes. And family culture that will last, that you
want to last. And throughoutprobably all a lot of our
conversations, because there'scertain themes in my heart and
in my life that God has justkinda burned into me. They'll
they'll come out over and overagain.
And even as you said that, oneof the themes is patterns. Yeah.
I I consistently, and maybe youtoo, the longer I go, the more
(18:03):
clients that I have had theprivilege to counsel, being in
this pastor role that you and Ihave the privilege to be in, and
even in our own family and ourown marriage, you see patterns
play out. With Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob, you saw patterns play
out that still play out. Yep.
And so sometimes we just think,oh, it's just me. I'm crazy. My
family's broken. What is wrongwith me? Well, spoiler alert,
(18:26):
there is something wrong withyou.
There's something wrong with allof us. And that's the message of
the gospel that there's a goodnews for the prophets.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Chapter one, we're all horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Oh, it is. I know we have to explain that later.
Yeah. Yes. Chapter one of Legacyof the Last.
We're all horrible.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
We're all horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
We're all horrible. But we are. But the reality is
is that God is putting us backtogether and the patterns that
the Lord is kind, if we haveeyes to see that he'll expose,
we can learn from. And itnormalizes the battle, but we
want I I don't believe we don'twanna be people who are normal
in this life because it's normalfor I've heard even higher
(19:03):
percentage, one out of twomarriages end in divorce. And
the fifty percent that are stillmarried, maybe twenty five
percent happily.
Like, we don't wanna be thenorm. We want to live in the
rare air of God's abundant morethan we could ask or imagine.
So, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Well, and I said I was gonna do all six at once and
then go one by one, then we justwent one by one, didn't we?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, we're gonna dive deep into that
relationship. But it's such a
Speaker 1 (19:27):
big Relationships, which is marriage, kids, all
that, we're gonna talk aboutparenting. We're gonna open up
the door for that. And thencurrent world events is another
one that we're gonna really lockin on. That's something unique
we really wanna speak to. Thingsthat are happening in our
culture.
Maybe not every single thing,but just the things that the
Lord says, hey, I'm compellingyou to speak. And on those, we
(19:52):
are going to venture into thatworld because God's called us to
be salt and light. Biblicalworldview, which is bigger than
world events. It's how to builda big, bold biblical worldview.
Church, we wanna talk aboutchurch.
Yeah, love church. We love thebride. We could talk about
church hurt. We could talk abouthow to avoid that. We'll talk
(20:13):
about that in a sec.
Biblical, the Bible andtheology, which there's deep,
deep truths that run throughthat that we wanna examine and
take a little more timeunpacking. And then the final of
the six would be soul care.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Soul care.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Counseling, stuff we see in psychology. You are a
twenty year practicingcounselor. Let's start there
just while we did relationships,let's briefly talk a little bit
about soul care.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, and can we just say the seventh category is the
spontaneous things that we'relike gonna have to say, I'm so
sorry that The that just
Speaker 1 (20:47):
seventh, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
See, that's a holy number and it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We can't prepare for
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Well, gonna have guests.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, guests.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But they make their way into all of these
categories. Yes. So you couldsay the seventh category is
guests if you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Or miscellaneous ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, miscellaneous Then
Speaker 2 (21:03):
it's inevitably gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So talk to us a little bit, what can everybody
expect when we talk about soulcare? Just like we did with
marriage and family.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, so I think that we will delve into where does
psychology and the Bible meet?Where do how do you wrestle
through a society and a culturewhere when people know things
are wrong with me and and wantto get better, psychology has an
answer. Well, what about theBible? And so I think we'll
delve deep into that. And Imean, those are waters I love to
(21:35):
swim in.
It's, you know, deep insidethat.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Well, you've been practicing as a counselor for
over twenty years, maybe twentyfive years, something like that.
And we have, I'll say this, youwouldn't say, you've actually
taught in counseling conferencesand you've helped other
counselors. God's given youincredible truth. We have
incredible colleagues where youwill talk to them and just grind
(22:02):
on truth, just really justwhittle it down and get it
right. And so there's a lot thatwe have learned.
We wanna take some of thoseconversations and some of those
truths that we've learned andsome of the things happening for
soul care, one of the thingsthat I wanna talk about is the
idol of therapy.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah. Big time. This is whole podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, and might think, well, that's Brandon's
message. No. It's our message.Yeah. There's an idolatry of
therapy even in the localchurch, even with well meaning
Christian voices.
Sometimes I hear more aboutcounseling and therapy than I do
about Jesus. And that lendsitself to the main thing when it
comes to soul care. First ofall, soul care is important.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
But it is no substitute. It's not like you
divide your life. I'm gonna goto counseling and then I'll go
to church for my Jesus thing.No. No.
No. If your counsel is notcoming from the Holy Spirit,
from the word of God and fromthe power of the resurrected
Christ, good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'll give you an example of this that grieved my
heart so deeply. There was awoman years and years ago and
she had a family member that shewas very close to, and it was a
teenage girl, one of her familymembers. And she we knew this
family and she came to me andI'm counseling at the time and I
couldn't counsel them becausethey I knew them and there's
(23:23):
ethics involved with who I canand can't counsel. But she came
to me asking for direction forthis teenager, this girl who
desperately needed touch of Godin her life and needed healing
and just very broken familydynamics. So she comes to me and
I began to offer her severaldifferent avenues, biblical
(23:44):
counseling included, of just,you know, what I believed this
girl would benefit from.
And I often like to say, if youhave a child in crisis or if
you, you know, grown adults, wefind ourselves in crisis, layers
of support is so helpful. And soto have different layers of
support offers a building morestructure. Well, same thing with
(24:05):
a soul. And so these layers ofsupport included get your get
your girl in the church. Find astudent ministry where they are
surrounded with the things ofGod and community and leaders
speaking into them.
Get her in church. And I'llnever forget her words to me.
(24:26):
Yeah, well, we need professionalhelp. And I thought, oh, she's
lost if she follows your path.She is done for.
And I can say that as aprofessional, one of the first
things I tell you You're
Speaker 1 (24:42):
very successful too. I mean, you've an incredible
track record, you've helped alot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Thank you. Jesus. And I would just say, you know, if
somebody comes to my office thevery first time that we meet, we
talk about expectations and whatto expect. And I'm very overt,
every counselor has a theory andworldview from which they
counsel, everyone, every singleone. And so I'm very overt in
that first, you know,expectations conversation of,
(25:08):
hey, what are you expecting outof our time together?
Let me share some things I'mexpecting. And I'm quick to tell
them, you know, I pull myanswers from the word of God. I
can pull my answers from theBible. I don't have all the
answers. I've got my own issues.
I'll tell them. I don't have allthe answers, but I know the one
who does, and that's where wewill run together. And I'll lead
(25:30):
you there. And so, yeah, it's abig conversation and it's tough.
Just as recent as, I mean, thisis last week, I was looking for
counselors because I just thinkit's always good to have kind of
a ongoing, you know, who's inour area that's biblical, that's
Christian.
And we partner with a great, youknow, one great group in this
(25:51):
area. But I was looking and Iwas so sad. Like I could not
find anything close by. And Imean, maybe I missed, there may
be the name out there, like Idon't have a website. I just
have never taken that step.
It's been word-of-mouth. But somaybe there's great ones and we
just need to find you. But justgoing online, and as I began to
(26:12):
read the about and where do youpull your theory for help, how
to help someone, I was sodiscouraged that there's a
vacuum of biblical voices, andit's not sitting and preaching a
message. That's the other thingpeople think is, oh, are you
gonna come and hear a sermon?No.
When you open the word of God,just go read Proverbs. How
(26:34):
practical that God is with howlife is supposed to work and
does work. And the soul careelement for it to truly be care
and healing that lasts.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We talk about soul cares, all these other topics,
one of the things that is ourvision is that we would have,
our vision is that we would havelinks like if we have somebody
we wanna refer, here's a link,here's a link to this. And so
this actually becomes somethinglike I follow some phishing
(27:08):
podcasts and that kind of stuff.And one of the things I love is
when they're showing what theydo and then down below, you
could just click the link to thevery things that they're using.
And, and so when we haveresources or when we have those
kind of assets orrecommendations, we'll throw
those out. Yeah.
We may wanna talk about food atsome point. That's not one of
our categories.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Food. Yes. Could be the seventh one.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
The seventh is a big miscellaneous.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Big miscellaneous. Okay, another one that we've
already mentioned, but let's gointo just a touch more detail.
How about why talk about currentworld events? We're going to
address current world events.And I think my first stab at
that answer would be because thechurch is salt and light.
(27:58):
The church is a city on a hill.And to withdraw from the public
conversation is to leave peopletrying to figure out where they
are, and often they're left withthe voices that are very far
from the voice that you find inthe Bible. So current world
(28:22):
events. Now there's some it'sgonna get tricky and we're
probably gonna make people upsetbecause we're gonna come in I
keep hitting the mic, we'regonna come in, I use my hands,
it's just gonna Me too. We'regonna come in with some
opinions.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah. And we're not gonna get it all right. Just go
ahead, let's get thatexpectation up front. We don't
have all the answers. We're notcoming onto this podcast like,
oh, we've arrived.
So, you know, we don't wanna saywe're gonna make somebody mad,
but we will make, probably makesomebody And we may, we have to
may retract something, I don'tknow. Yes. But we're, I think
the heart behind the why isexactly what you said. If the
(29:00):
church isn't speaking to what'shappening in our world, who is?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You aren't.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Who is? Yep. It's the opposite. It's people who don't
know or love the word of God.And so God's people have to
respond, have to engage, have tohave to be both proactive and at
times reactive to the thingsthat are happening.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And this will that won't drive our conversations.
That'll be more of a we'recompelled, you know, or we just
we're so into it that we just,it's just an overflow of where
we're at. Yeah. But I am excitedabout that. And that leads us to
another big category.
There we are, there's yourfriend. There it is.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We decided to video and here we are. Look over
there.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah. Another big category that's married to that
is biblical worldview. I like tosay it, big, bold, biblical
worldview.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And that will clash into often, that will clash into
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Current events.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because it frames it.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You define a bold biblical worldview?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Can I give an example? Yes. All right, this
is, maybe some of you guys haveheard me share this. My kids
have been tortured their wholelives by this mindset. And I'm
just like, I don't even knowwhich one to pull from, but I'll
just pull from an easier one.
Back in the day, there was thisstore called Justice. It was so
fun. It was the best. But I wasthe mom who would walk my little
(30:31):
cutie kids over elementaryschool and younger or whatever,
over to the wall of t shirts andI would have them point out the
lies.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
The lies.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah. Or like Melina.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Like follow your heart was one of my, you know,
big ones. And you're like, why?That's so sweet. Because
Jeremiah seventeen:nine says,the heart is deceitful above all
things, desperately wicked. Whocan know it?
You know, again, we're notbashing humanity, we're simply
stating our diagnosis. And solet's not wear a t shirt saying
the opposite. Let's follow God'sheart, let's follow God's. So I
(31:07):
mean, my sweet children,
Speaker 1 (31:10):
it's The something technical term for this is
syncretism. It's something thatthe Old Testament Hebrews were
constantly, God was constantlypulling them away from this,
whether it's through hisprophets or whatever. It's
syncretism. It's where we have aform of religion or we wanna
follow God, but we're buyinglies from the culture Yeah. And
(31:32):
we marry it into our walk withthe Lord.
And part of the calling for aprophetic ministry, and that's
part of what we do, part of thatcalling is to call out the
secretism. Yeah. To extract theidols, extract the, you know,
scrub out the filth, you know,and those cultural lies. To
(31:56):
identify a lie, you have to knowthe truth. Yeah.
You know, that's old counterfeitanalogy. What do they do to
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard it a
million times.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
To the dollar bill.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah. How do you know you have a fake $100 bill? Well,
train them with the real thingand then they can really discern
what discern. Discern. That's mykids are all over me about this
word.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Okay. We don't know why that discern turned into?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Discern. Nope. I use a Z not an S. I've been trying
to correct myself.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I thought you try. You were dis you did discerning
Not this
Speaker 1 (32:30):
too late, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, or the other weekend?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah. Anyway, so to I don't even know what I was
saying.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I'm sorry, that threw us all off. Was worldview.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I'm talking about big bold biblical worldviews
syncretism. Syncretism. And todiscern what is The more you
have a big bold biblicalworldview, you can discern the
lies from the culture. And wefeel a calling to that. And one
of the things that God has justdone through a heart that we
(33:03):
have, we have a heart for a lotof things, but one of our
passions is the younggeneration.
We're so passionate about theyoung generation. And I was
looking around, this is before2020, but definitely around
2020. I was looking around and Iwas beginning to realize that we
had always believed in a bigbold biblical worldview, but we
(33:26):
began to really become convictedthat if we did not share and
clearly teach a big boldbiblical worldview to the young
generation, then they werequickly being scooped up with
massive lies and the erosionculturally of lies was happening
(33:47):
so quickly. I think a lot ofparents don't have a clue how
bad it is with the younggeneration because they're not
talking and they're not hearingit. When you begin, 20 just
broke it open when parents beganto understand what their kids
were learning and began to say,woah, these influences are being
not only discussed among teensand social media, but maybe even
(34:11):
some stuff happening in schoollibraries and blah blah blah.
All of a sudden you're like,woah, wait a second. This needs
a correction. We're gonna beteaching a big bold biblical
worldview, which marriesbeautifully with that cultural
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Use current that worldview, yeah, to have the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
We wanna talk about the Bible and theology, which
again marries with that boldbiblical worldview, but Bible
and theology, there's just somestuff. Like, we wanna go
headlong into some heavy stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Like, we really wanna dive in to some of the
controversies that arehappening. Like right now,
there's a big war it seemsbetween and I'm gonna throw out
some words. We're not gonnaexplain it all right now. But
like dispensationalism versusother interpretations,
preterism, I don't know ifthat's the way it's said,
(35:04):
preterist view of understanding.The end times, like the end
times, like how do you which isright and what is right?
And this is what I've beentaught, and this is what is a
conservative biblical strongview. We're gonna talk about
that. I wanna talk about thatthere's different ideas on how
(35:25):
you're saved and what salvationlooks like. We're gonna talk
about the Holy Spirit. One ofthe things that we wanna make
sure, it's interesting, we are achurch that's always believed
you don't have to choose.
You don't have to choose.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Explain that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Okay, so like we can talk about the Holy Spirit and
we are a strong Bible church,you know? We preach like a Bible
church, but we'll preach theHoly Spirit and the power of the
Holy Spirit and the gifts of theHoly Spirit.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And the experience of
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, the Holy the topics that we've talked about
we wanna do is our journey inthe Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1 (36:05):
whole And the truth of it is it's not the friends we
were running with, It's not thechurch we went to. We started
Keystone. Our journey in theHoly Spirit is our journey in
the word of God. And so we wannatalk about that coming from
both, from different corners ofthe Baptist expressions. There's
(36:26):
a lot of diversity in Baptistworld.
But from that, which there'ssome things we really love about
our heritage and all that, we'lltalk about that and honor it.
But also just where the Biblehas taken us on our journey in
the Holy Spirit. So we'll talkabout Bible and I can't either.
(36:48):
How to read the Bible for allit's worth. There's some wrong
ways to read the Bible, there'ssome right ways to read the
Bible.
Maybe correcting some stuff outthere, like some stuff that's
just a little loose. Again,we're not gonna be haterade on
other pastors and all that. Myexperience with pastors is
there's very few that are justreally bad dudes. Most pastors
(37:11):
are really great guys that wannaget it right. Without naming
names, we might address some ofthe things that I'm worried
about.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Themes, patterns.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Themes and patterns that are worth exploring and
helping the church to see itwhen it's there. Maybe with some
grace and charity.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah. Can I just say along that these lines, you
know, part of it, as you listento us, we're hoping to impart on
you just skills for your ownlife? Because guess what? We're
not the ninja Christian. Youhave the Holy Spirit of God,
right?
I mean, we each, one of us havethe Holy Spirit of God inside of
us. And while God does callleaders, He does call pastors,
(37:54):
and we'll talk about that too.And there is a role there that
is to be honored and to beunderstood of a pastor's role.
Each of us that are Christfollowers, we have the Holy
Spirit inside of us, all thepower that the Holy Spirit
brings available to us. And soas we talk about how we navigate
world situations or messagingthat we're hearing, we're so
(38:16):
excited that you can too.
Yeah. That you can do that inyour own life with your own
family. It's just something wehope that will overflow.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yes, final category, church.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Wait, is this six or seven?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
This is the sixth category and the seventh is
whatever. On the seventh. Theseventh is whatever. But the
sixth category is church. Yeah.
And one of the things, one ofthe early topics we're gonna hit
is church hurt.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
That's definitely, you know, happening in our
culture.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
And it's a buzzword right now.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And it is a buzzword.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Side note, it's always interesting when
buzzwords begin. It's just like,think if you start to hear any
kind of buzzword, period, likechurch heard, that's one. But
you hear a buzzword in ourculture, lean in and dig deep
and ask who is the messenger?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah. What's the spirit of the buzzword of What's
the of the
Speaker 2 (39:12):
spirit of the buzzword?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Often it is so cynical. Often it is so
negative. Yeah. And there'sjust, there's, you know, look,
clicks happen with negativity.People are so much more prone to
run to the accident and to theheadline and the negative and
the drama than they are theencouraging, building, and the
(39:38):
move forward.
But I agree, we've never spokenof this about that, about the
buzzword. You're so right.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Think about it. I mean, spoiler alert, but there
are only two places that amessage big picture ultimately
comes from.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
It's either coming from the creator of our
universe, coming from our God.Right. God of the Bible, or it's
coming from the enemy. Yeah. Andthe Bible says every person
belongs to one of those two.
You either belong to God and youare his, or you belong to the
enemy. Now some of us who belongto God are sleeping with the
(40:16):
enemy, no pun intended, but weare in, you know, we are in the
wrong space going back to ourchains and back to enemy voice.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
He can't have you, but he can use you.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, and so, yes. And so, you know, when it comes
to the buzzword, again, it's notthrowing everything out and
saying everything's terrible.No, it's like, where's this
message coming from? Because Iwanna make sure I'm aligned, I'm
aligned with the messenger whois God.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Well, and part of our heart is like, you know, what
kinda church do we wanna have? Imean, what kind of church do we
wanna be? What kind of church dowe see? You know, is it cynical,
you know, kind of looking ateverything through this kind of
wary eyes? Or, you know, isthere another option?
And we've already said thatwe're not in la la land, we want
(41:07):
to live in the truth, this isour vision even if the truth is
difficult,
Speaker 2 (41:13):
but That's a whole, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
That's a whole thing, but cynicism, church hurt, all
those buzzwords, that's sohelpful. But also in church, we
want to advance kind of a newway. There's a lot of question
about how church should be done.We want to talk about that. We
want to talk about why we dosome of the things we do and
equip you with the reason behindsome of the things we do at
(41:37):
Keystone what it is, and thatoften it's thought out.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Like we're not, like if you say, hey, you know, I
really didn't like when thathappened. I'm sure y'all just
didn't think about it. And ouranswer may be, actually we
thought about it a lot. Yeah.And the truth is maybe you
haven't heard anotherperspective and you've fallen
into this quicksand of cynicism.
But we do have some thoughts.Some of our values, for example,
(42:04):
we wanna talk about production.There's a lot of cynicism around
production. We wanna talk aboutwhy, why the production? Why do
we have LED?
Why do we have screens? Why allthat? We wanna talk about that.
We wanna talk about buildingsand big beautiful buildings. Why
would you have big beautifulbuildings in a day and age
(42:24):
that's very cynical amongcertain corners.
Why do that? By the way, I'venever come across someone who
I've talked to out there that isoffended by Keystone's building,
is beautiful. It's it's it'soften these corners of cynical
Christianity, and that's reallyinteresting to me.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
There's a theology that they've latched onto.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah. Self made or
Speaker 2 (42:49):
distorted or who knows?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah. We'll talk about that. Values. There's a
lot of values out there that wewanna address. Yeah.
And that really explain who weare and we want to advance that.
And if there's pastors thatwould listen in, maybe could
give you language for what youknow is true and it could help
you explain it and so that itcould put out that little kind
(43:11):
of be an antibiotic for thebacteria of cynicism and
negativity in the church, giveyou honoring language to help
others. Again, we don't wanna beshocking for shock's sake to get
headlines. We don't want to justget a crowd and clicks by sound
(43:32):
bites. We really just wanna doour thing.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Just wanna help.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
We wanna help. That's right. We wanna help and we
wanna get some things off ourchest.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yes, we do. And I will circle back real quick on
the church hurt because we'll doa whole podcast, if not more,
but on that and just to tie abow on that, we both utterly
acknowledge that people get hurt
Speaker 1 (43:49):
in church. Absolutely. We've been hurt in
church.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We've been deeply hurt in church. And the reality
is not that you can avoid churchhurt, but it's how to navigate
it and how to understand it. Andagain, that goes to a biblical
worldview when you understandit. It helps you know what the
next steps look like. But Godloves his bride and even when
she falls down and scrapes herknee or she's going through a
rough patch, he loves his brideand we wanna be people who love
(44:15):
her too.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
So good.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Where The seventh, can I just say the seventh? Can
I
Speaker 1 (44:19):
do Okay?
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I'm driving you because
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I'm driving you crazy. It's our miscellaneous
category.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
It's just the miscellaneous also expectation
is sometimes you may take awhole podcast and it's just you,
or I may take a whole podcast.Absolutely. We may have a friend
join you or a friend join me orsomeone else will have more
Speaker 1 (44:35):
than Right.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
So it's kind of the unexpected. There's gonna be
ready. Yeah, be ready.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It's so good. And one last word, we are right now in
the Spurgeon Room. Oh. Yep, I'venamed it. This is the Spurgeon
Room.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
This now you named it?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
No, I've been talking, I've been on this. So
an explanation of kind of thespace that we're in, while
there's right here is MatthewHenry's expository works. That
is the only thing I think of. Ithink that's the only book in
here that's not a Spurgeon book.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah. This is all Spurgeon. And so this is kind of
the Spurgeon room with a fewlittle exceptions, but I mean,
just look around. It's like
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah. All I guess ours? It's How we've been
married twenty
Speaker 1 (45:18):
And and let me say it was a generous gift. I mean, a
lot of this was a generous giftfrom a friend and he just wanted
to do it. And I was like,absolutely, I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Isn't that great? I love Spurgeon. Maybe that would
be another one that I'll just doa whole thing on why I love
Spurgeon.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
That's category seven.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
That's category.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Wait, have we been married twenty six or twenty
seven years?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
We have been married twenty seven years.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Okay, twenty seven years. I didn't know about our
Spurgeon.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I know. This is amazing. I mean, start, look,
Spurgeon.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Special.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Sword and Trowel, sword and Trowel, sword and
Trowel, sword and Trowel, swordand Trowel, those are all sword
and the trowel. I mean, justlook around. There it is.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So good. And Spurgeon, he's overflowed into
this room. Yeah. We're That'sgonna continue to overflow.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah. Alright. So we'll see you next time on the
overflow. Can't wait. Wanted todo a little intro, get you
ready, and we're diving in nexttime.
So we'll see you in theoverflow.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.