Behind the Boxes: In the "Hot Seat" with Chris Howard

One year into The Boxes project, something unexpected happened: the story about preserving their mother’s legacy became the very thing that healed Kellie and Erin’s own relationship.

In this episode, the sisters reunite with film and television producer Chris Howard—this time in the hot seat—as he turns the questions back on them. Together they unpack:

• The seven-year age gap that shaped their bond as sisters.
• How business ventures and unspoken expectations became battlegrounds.
• The promise Kellie made to their dying mother—and the weight it carried for decades.
• Why healing in real time makes this project so raw, authentic, and powerful.
• The truth that their mother’s greatest gift wasn’t in the boxes she left behind… it was in giving them each other.

Through vulnerability, laughter, and a few tears, this conversation reveals the deeper heart of The Boxes story—and why legacy isn’t just what we leave, but how we live.

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Hearing the stories of others helps us create a more meaningful connection to our own—because legacy isn’t just what we leave behind, it’s how we live right now.

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Episode Transcript

The Sisters (00:19):
Thank you.
Family dynamics and ultimatelyinto the universal journey of
living life, experiencing love,navigating loss and redefining
what it means to both live andleave a legacy.
It's been a season of discovery, healing and reconnecting with
the very pieces of a story wedidn't even realize were missing
.
And what a journey it's been.

(00:40):
Today we're back with Chris,our friend and now an adopted
brother, not just to share allthat's transpired, but to give
you a sneak peek into hiscreative process.
This time, the sisters are inthe hot seat to answer looming
questions that dig deeper,reveal the innermost layers of
our lives and uncover the trueheart of this story, because the

(01:03):
greatest gift our mother gaveus wasn't found in a box.
It was found in each other, andthat's a gift we're still
unwrapping, one conversation ata time.
Welcome to The P-I-G, where weexplore life, love, loss and
legacy through realconversations and meaningful
stories, with purpose, intentionand gratitude.

(01:24):
I'm Erin and I'm Kellie.
We're sisters, best friends,sometimes polar opposites, but
always deeply connected by thelife and love of the woman who
still loves guides.
and teaches from beyond.
.
.
our mother, Marsha.

Erin (01:34):
So Chris, welcome back to

Chris Howard (01:35):
the PIG Da-na-na,
Da-na-na.

(02:14):
I am happy to be back with my sisters and to talk
about this wonderful story thathas just absolutely completely
consumed me all in the good, allin the in the good ways, I
should say.
It has been a journey, and Ithink when we initially started
talking about this project, Ithink I remember telling you
guys like it's going to be aprocess, it's going to be a
journey.
I don't think I quite realizehow true those words would be.

Erin (02:30):
It has been a journey.

Chris Howard (02:32):
It has been a journey of and just like you
know, I think, because when youbecome so like involved in a
story, you always feel like youunderstand it, you have a grasp
of it, but then when you reallystart to like, dive into, like,
putting it together, you realizethere's some missing pieces,
there's some other things thatyou didn't quite, you didn't

(02:52):
quite understand.
But then the story alsocontinues to evolve and I think
it evolves because we're dealingwith three dynamic women in
their own right and you want todo the project justice by making
sure you're telling the rightcomplete story.
And I'm anal, so you know I'vegot, I have to get it right.

Erin (03:16):
That's one of the things that I have loved so much about
every moment of this process ishow thorough you are and how
completely and how accuratelyyou want to tell this story, and
so putting all of these piecestogether has been an

(03:36):
extraordinary process andjourney, and we're still going,
and I can't wait to reflect moreon that today.
But it's one of the things thatI admire about you the most is
your commitment to it.
So I concur with that and,Chris, I have a question for you
, because when Erin and I firstmet with you a year ago it's

(03:58):
crazy.
It's been a year.
We are at the one year mark,exactly Right, and six months
ago we launched, have never beenin this process of bringing a
story to this place as apotential television or

(04:34):
documentary or film or whatever,and we'd love to kind of hear
your feedback on what the lastyear has revealed and where
we're at with the process.
But can you explain kind of howthis whole process even works?

Chris Howard (04:48):
Yeah, I think it's different depending on the
project and depending on theperson or persons.
Right, if you have one subjectmatter, right, if you have one
person, it's easy to tell theirstory because it's essentially
it's a through line, right?
It's from point A to point Z.
Right, you follow themthroughout their life.
It's essentially it's a throughline, right, it's from point A
to point Z, right, you followthem throughout their life and

(05:08):
of course, there's some twistsand some turns in that.
But when you have threedifferent people whose lives
you're trying to tell theirstory, it becomes a little bit
more difficult.
So you really have to sit withpeople and really understand who
they are, what motivates them,what makes them tick, their

(05:29):
desires, their fears, theirshortcomings, the things that
make them happy.
You really have to dive intothat because, if you think about
it, there's really no, there'sno source material, right,
there's no book out there on youguys for me to go option and I
can read the book and get the orget the cliff notes and
understand, like, who you guysare.
So it's like I'm having toreally immerse myself in your

(05:53):
lives and that's why we'vebecome so close, right, that's
why we call each other brotherand sister, because I've kind of
had to interject myself in youguys' life to really understand
the story that needs to be told.
And I think once you're able todo that, then everything else
kind of starts to fall in place.
The dominoes start to line.
Then it becomes.
Well, here's the.

(06:14):
We know the film structure,right.
We know there's a seriesstructure.
Now it's just about how do weput those pieces in place.
And I think when you're dealingwith a story that is as I don't
want to call it, it's notcomplicated, it is.
There's so many moving pieces,right, and each character has,

(06:35):
like we talked last time, I'mlike, literally Erin can have a
whole movie about herself.
You know, Kellie can have aentire movie about herself.

Kellie (06:43):
Because she is complicated.

Erin (06:47):
Talk about complicated

Kellie (06:49):
That girl is complicated !

Chris Howard (06:53):
And your mother can have her own story right,
Because there's enough.
You know there's trauma anddrama, right, that is in every
person's life, in this story.
So you have to be able to tellthat.
But also show how they'reconnected, because the
connections is what ultimatelysends you guys on a different

(07:13):
path and then back to each other.
You know what I mean.
So it's you know, it's one ofthose projects where, again,
like you really have to, it'sgoing to take up a lot of your
life.
You have to be consumed with it, you have to want to tell the
story in the right way, and forme it's.
I haven't quite, I've neverdone a story like this, so even
for me this is new territory.

Kellie (07:37):
What drew you, Chris, really to this story from the
beginning?
Because we talked in episodeone and that was six months ago,
so we were six months into ourproject and so much has happened
since that time.
So, before we dive into thelast six months, I'd love to
hear from you what reallyattracted you to this story from

(08:00):
the beginning.
And I do want to encouragepeople, if they haven't, to go
back and listen to episode one,because it is really fun to see
where we are now versus where wewere then.

Chris Howard (08:12):
I think you know, obviously you know we have a
great mutual friend of ours.
You know Jason Jepson, whointroduced me to Erin and told
me about the story and thenintroduced me to Erin because I
know Jason, I love Jason.
Jason is a publicist so he cansell, you know, ice to an Eskimo
.
So I needed to make sure thathe wasn't just upselling and

(08:32):
come to find out.
I feel like he wasn't evenselling it enough, but even he
probably didn't know all thethings that have kind of come
out over the last year himself.
So I think initially what I sawwas a woman who looked death in
the face and said I'm going totry to be everything that I can

(08:54):
be, knowing that I have a shortamount of time to be here, but
also about what kind of legacy Iwant to leave for my daughters
and for me personally as I getolder and think about my own
mortality.
Right, I never had kids.
So when I start to think aboutwhat am I leaving behind?

(09:14):
Right, because I didn't haveany kids, got some dogs, but I
don't have any kids as I startedto think about my own mortality
, it's about what kind of legacyam I leaving behind?
I may not be leaving a legacyin the sense of I'm passing this
down onto my kids.
It may be the legacy that I'mpassing down to the people that
I come across paths that comeacross mine.

(09:36):
And so when I thought about it,I just thought about like this
is such a powerful story to tell, because a lot of us are
looking for inspiration thesedays, a lot of us are looking
for any sign of hope in humanity, because I feel like we are
living in a time of just despairand doom and gloom, that we

(09:59):
need more stories like this, andI think also we need more
stories like this where we'retalking about strong-willed
women and I don't want to getpolitical and I think also we
need more stories like thiswhere we're talking about
strong-willed women and I don'twant to get political, but I
think we're seeing things nowwhere we're pushing this
narrative that women have tooccupy a certain type of box in
order for her to feel completeand to feel that she is a

(10:21):
traditional woman or wife orwhatever.
I feel like we need to havestories like this, because not
every woman fits in that box youknow, and they shouldn't have
to feel that way.
So for me, that's kind of whatdrew me to.
The story was about legacy.

Erin (10:37):
I have to interject a thought really quick because
this is so poignant.
You know, we've been referringto this project as the boxes and
we talk a lot about the boxesthat she left behind, and it's
interesting how your statementof kind of breaking those
societal boxes falls in linewith that and those other boxes

(11:04):
right that we're trying to leavebehind in the past, and so
that's a really interesting playon words and I love how those
two things kind of overlap andeven parallel each other a
little bit.

Kellie (10:39):
quick because this is so poignant.
You know, we've been referringto this project as the boxes and
we talk a lot about the boxesthat she left behind, and it's
interesting how your statementof kind of breaking those
societal boxes falls in linewith that and those other boxes

(11:04):
right that we're trying to leavebehind in the past, and so
that's a really interesting playon words and I love how those
two things kind of overlap andeven parallel each other a
little bit.
I think the synchronicity ofthat is really quite cool.
You know the philosophical sideof that.

Chris Howard (11:24):
Yeah, great thought.

The Sisters (11:25):
Erin, Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, absolutely, it'sinteresting to Chris hearing you
talk about.
you know, even Jason notnecessarily fully realizing what
all was at play here, and Iwould venture to say that even
Kellie and I didn't really know,the depth of what this really

(11:47):
was, because, as we talked aboutin episode one and we've talked
about every episode since, andKellie and I have a lot of side
conversations and, of course,the three of us meet almost
weekly working on this projectand we continue to have
conversations that we've neverhad.

(12:07):
We continue to discuss topicsthat have either been untouched
or we just start to really digdeeper into things that we've
really scratched the surface ofover the years, and for me, this
entire journey has also been agreat uncovering of life and

(12:28):
love and memories, and I just Icould talk about it for hours
and hours and hours, but it'sreally been an extraordinary
process.

Chris Howard (12:38):
Yeah.

The Sisters (12:39):
I think the growth that we have had personally,
together, even with all of ourfamily members, that has been
quite unexpected for me.
I didn't know what to expectgoing into the project and what
has come out of it.
No matter what happens or doesnot happen with this story

(13:02):
publicly, because it's alwaysbeen a private story, it is
about the reconnection, thegrowth, the healing, the
discovery, the lessons and, likeErin said, the conversations
that we have had that I don'tthink normal family members are
having with each other, and ifthat alone inspires people to

(13:27):
ask others questions and to digdeeper into the heart of that
human being.
All of this has been so worthit and it has been so beautiful,
full of so much joy, full of somuch fun and challenge which we
can talk about.
Some of that too.
But it's been incredible and,Chris, I have such incredible

(13:50):
gratitude I know Erin does tooin our hearts for how you have
approached us individually,collectively, our family members
and just the story with suchtenderness and compassion and
empathy and heart.
It has been an extraordinaryexperience.

Chris Howard (14:11):
Yeah, I think on our calls.
I think maybe one of the thingsI mean.
There's plenty other things,but I think one of the things
that kind of shocked me was thatthe healing hadn't happened yet
.
You know what I mean, and Ithink a lot of times when we go

(14:31):
to tell these types of stories,there's been a reckoning already
.
You know what I mean.
We're over it, this is ourstory, we're good with it,
you're right, but the healinghadn't happened yet and so, as
we're going through it, allthose raw emotions are like real
.
They're like real and in realtime.

(14:52):
And I think that's one of thethings we had talked about
before when we talked about whywe were doing the video.
Part of this was so thatwhoever we pass this story on to
write, they're not just seeingthe words on paper.
They're seeing the actualemotions of these characters and
how certain things haveaffected them, and that allows a

(15:14):
writer to really write true towho the character is, because
now you've got, you can see theraw emotions.
So I think that's one of thethings, too, that you know I've
worked on other projects.
You know, especially in thetrue crime, of the things, too,
that you know I've worked onother projects, you know,
especially in the true crimespace where I've had to, you
know, talk to people who've losttheir loved ones to you know
crime and stuff like that and itkind of reminded me of that.

(15:36):
But this was, this was different.
This was more familial, right,not that you've lost a loved one
in a tragic way, but it's likeyou've lost a connection, you've
lost a part of you, but in amore spiritual and endearing way
, right, and so I think that'sone of the things that kind of

(15:57):
caught me off guard was like I'mlike, wow, okay, so no one's
healed here and we're havingthis Counselor Chris, we are
figuring this thing out as we goalong.
And so I felt like it was likeokay, I have to be very careful
with this story because, at theend of the day, I was a stranger

(16:19):
right and I have to try to getyou guys to open up to me in
order for us to tell the rightstory.
So I try, know, I try to dowhat I can do.

Erin (16:28):
Well, you have definitely not felt like a stranger from
day one, I will say, and youabsolutely deserve an honorary
doctorate as a licensedtherapist as far as I'm
concerned.
Licensed therapist, as far asI'm concerned, yeah, so it's

(16:50):
just.
I cannot imagine working withanybody else, I just can't.
I mean, it's just this storyand the healing and the journey
that we have been on is becauseof you and it's through you, and
so much of our growth my growthpersonally, has been, like
Kellie said, because of yourtenderness, your compassion,

(17:13):
your heart to really know andunderstand us and where we're
coming from and to dig in andyour willingness to ask some
tough questions.
And I think that that is somuch of what has prompted so
many of these healingconversations, conversations
that we didn't know we needed tohave to take a step forward in

(17:35):
the right direction.
And so it's been beautiful.
Every step of it it's beenbeautiful and, yes, it's been
joy filled and it's come with alot of tears and some challenges
, but all of that is part of thebeauty of all of it.
I really believe in timing andsynchronicity and I shared in

(17:56):
episode one and we have talkedabout it so many times Erin and
I were really at a crossroads inour relationship and we didn't
really even know and understandwhy.
It was just because we weren'ttalking and there had been a gap
and a disconnect and our motherhad left us these beautiful
gifts.
But what we failed to rememberwas that the greatest gift of

(18:19):
all that she left us was eachother and you, this project,
these conversations have givenus that gift, and I see her hand
at play in all of it.
So I believe that you were handselected and hand chosen and
that it was you who was the onewho could do this for and with

(18:41):
us.
So big gratitude.
And today you're putting us inthe hot seat.
A little sneak peek into howall this works in the creative
process.
And, as my dear friend Trinaonce said to me long, a long
time ago, let's feed multiplebirds with one crumb, and

(19:01):
there's some things that youwant to uncover and some more
information that you want, andwe thought this would be a great
way to spend today's podcast.

Chris Howard (19:11):
Absolutely so I'm like are we taking a break or
are we going to drive right in?

The Sisters (19:16):
We can do whatever we want.

Chris Howard (19:19):
That's right.

The Sisters (19:19):
We are the bosses.

Chris Howard (19:21):
This is the P-I-G.
Just kind of going back to whatyou just said, Kellie.

(19:57):
It was again like going back towhere we, where we were in a
story, it was always the okay,why are we here?
Right, I know we're here totell this, to tell this
wonderful story, but what got ushere?
You know what I mean.
And going back to kind of likewhat I was saying was realizing
like, oh, like we're, we're here, like my first impression of

(20:19):
you guys are like I'm like, oh,my god, these are like great
sisters and they're so close orwhatever.
And then you find out like therewas kind of this divide even
then.
Now I want to say divide, butthere wasn't the connection that
you guys have right now.
You know what I mean and, likeI said before, you know usually
when you get into these types ofstories, right, you know things

(20:40):
have been resolved.
So it was kind of like tryingto figure out like where does
this story take place?
Where's the center of thisstory?
And I think on our lastconversation, after all this
time, we finally got there tofigure out what was the catalyst

(21:00):
in all of this.
I want to start with theAdvocare years, because I feel
like, that's a time where we'vetouched on a little bit but we
didn't really dive really deepinto it and, from my
understanding, I wanted toreally know, like you know,
Kellie, you're doing your thing,you're killing it in that space
, right, Erin, where were you?

(21:23):
And I always say this, butwhere were you mentally,
emotionally, at that time inyour life, like what were you
searching for at that moment?

Erin (21:34):
Wow, I am not really sure what I was searching for when
that business venture started,and I say that because I, you
know, I was graduated fromcollege and I was working full
time and I was newly married, inmy first marriage, and this

(22:00):
opportunity presented itself andKellie called me and she was
very excited and you know, Igrew up as an athlete and I was
a personal trainer and groupfitness instructor and so living
in the world of, you know,vitamins and supplements and
meal replacements and all ofthat was seemingly right up my
alley.
However, when Kellie, you know,called and wanted to share this

(22:24):
with us, I was really in thisspace of let me back up.
When she first called andwanted to share this opportunity
with us, I looked at Rob andbasically said if you want to
work with my sister, you go workwith my sister.
I'm not working with my sisterand not because there was some

(22:47):
great divide between us and Ireally like I just it's so hard
for me to go back to that mentalspace of where I was, to that
mental space of where I was.
But we dove in and I started,you know, using some of these
products and taking thesevitamins and I felt great and I
was like, well, shit, here we go, okay, I'm on board.

(23:09):
You know, you've got to rememberthat Kellie and I are seven
years apart and so we grew up intwo pretty different worlds and
I've always loved her andrespected her and admired her,
but I really wanted her to be mysister and I know that she felt
so much responsibility to stepin and be a mom to me after our

(23:36):
mom died and so she really hadthat maternal instinct.
So it's so interesting becauseI probably would have answered
this question very differently ayear ago and I certainly would
have answered it verydifferently 10 years ago, 20
years ago.
But it's actually cool torevisit it now, being in this
space and having some of theconversations that we've had,
because I can look back andacknowledge that during that

(23:58):
time I really wanted a sisterand needed a sister, and I don't
think either of us really knewwhat that looked like, quite
honestly, because she had beenthrown into this motherly role.
From the time that I was very,very little, when our mom was
faced with her first cancerdiagnosis, when I was five years

(24:19):
old, Kellie was her caretakerand my caretaker, and so and
that was really her role youknow all along.
But you know, as we, as westarted on this journey together
in the direct sales industry,Kellie just this and she's an
incredible leader.
I know I'm talking about herlike she's not sitting right

(24:40):
here, but but she is just.
I mean she.
I've always had this justimmense amount of respect and
admiration for her becauseseemingly, as the little sister
it was, you know, everything shetouched turned to gold type of
mindset for me, and so you knowwe everything she touched turned
to gold type of mindset for me.
And so you know, we dove in andwe were business partners and

(25:03):
it was cool.
We started, you know, beingable to travel together a little
bit and go to events and allsorts of things, and so we
started spending more and moretime together and it was just
really incredible and it was abeautiful thing.
But Kellie really started torise through the ranks rapidly

(25:27):
and achieve amazing milestonesand was leading an incredible
team and building an incrediblebusiness.
And I wasn't, I was trying, butso much of it was just
different personality and notreally seeing myself as a leader
at that time, kind of just moreas a follower and just kind of
doing what I was told like I'dbeen trying to do my whole life.

(25:50):
And the thing that wasinteresting during those years
was, you know, because of hersuccess and really being seen by
almost everybody within thatcompany who started to know her
and recognize her and she'straining from stage and earning
all the trips and all of thethings is that I started really

(26:12):
introducing myself as, andbecame known as, Kellie little
sister and I think I grew toresent her almost for that, when
it's not her fault.
But I think that my resentmentgrew because I felt like my
whole life I had been known asKellie little sister and even

(26:37):
though now, like if that was howpeople knew me, like I have
such a sense of pride, I'm soproud to be Kellie little sister
, but my whole life I felt likeI was kind of known as Kellie
little sister and I feel like Ihad finally moved out of our
hometown and gone to college andwas out on my own, then

(26:59):
graduated from college and I'mworking and I'm just trying to
make my own way right in thistown.
And I moved away from WesternColorado, I moved away from home
, and I felt like I had hadseveral years of breaking
through that and finding myselfand my own identity and learning
more about me and what I wantedto do with my life and what I

(27:22):
was good at and you know all ofthe things, and so then to kind
of be thrown back into anenvironment and into a world
where my identity kind of becameknown as Kellie little sister
again, I didn't really know howto handle that, quite honestly,

(27:42):
and so I struggled through thoseyears.
That was really hard for me.

Chris Howard (27:49):
And Kellie, did you ever feel the resentment?
Were there moments where maybeyou know, maybe you would ask
Erin to do something and Erinwas like you know, here we go
again, or like, did you feel theresentment?
I guess and I can give you apersonal example for me, and you
guys kind of know my familyhistory I'm the baby in the

(28:11):
family.
I've got an older brother,older sister.
My older brother is 15 yearsolder than I am, my older sister
is 10 years older than I am,and their lives were not great,
let's just put it like that.
And I went to, you know, Iplayed sports and I was.
I never got in any trouble.
I went to college and did youknow pretty good things, and I

(28:34):
definitely know that my olderbrother and older sister
resented me for that right.
There were certain things andactions that they would do or
say that you'd be like, wow,like did you not hear how?
You just said that?
You know what I mean, like,whether it's a tone or quip or
something.
Did you feel that resentment?

Kellie (28:56):
That's a really great question, Chris, and I think,
like Erin, it's so hard to goback to those years, in the
sense that, as Erin was talking,I was thinking to myself she
was 24 years old, I was 31.
I had a little kid who had justturned five and you know, he's

(29:18):
28 years old now and, as much ashe is a man, he's still my
child, my son.
I just see him as, sometimes asa little boy, and so,
contemplating the fact that Erinwas 24, and I was 31.
And we went into what became areally wild adventure very

(29:41):
quickly, and we were also livingin two different communities
across the state in Colorado, myheart was a sister who was
fulfilling a promise to ourmother, which was to ensure that
Erin was always going to beokay.
So when this business startedto evolve and develop and we

(30:06):
were both in the fitnessindustry and so it just kind of
made sense, she and her thenhusband at the time, rob, were
both very into athletics of alldifferent types, and this was,
you know, you were aprofessional and collegiate
football player.
You knew about the company andthe products and all of that at

(30:27):
that time, but the point beingthat it seemed like a very
natural, go on a journey with mein an environment that wasn't
her being my little sister or mebeing the big sister, and that
is what it kind of turned into.

(30:49):
That wasn't planned, thatwasn't what my intention was or
her intention.
It just kind of unfolded thatway.
Her intention, it just kind ofunfolded that way.
And now that we all own stock inKleenex, I've got my tissues

(31:11):
right here.
You know my heart, my heart,feels several things right now
in this moment.
Number one I am so happy thatwe have created a space where we
can have these very honest, raw, vulnerable, authentic
conversations with each other,because it's good for us to be
reminded how our actions, ourbehaviors, our intentions even

(31:32):
unknowingly, created periods ofresentment.
And as the years and thedecades pass, if those
resentments are stacked andlayered on top of each other
which I believe is a lot of whathappened to Erin and I then
that can be really really toughto unravel and to break down.

(31:54):
And so to be able to go backalmost 25 years now and say this
is kind of where the first realresentment started and I know
there were some resentments withErin being the baby of the
family and seven years old andall kinds of stuff.
I mean, just as siblings, weprobably all three had some

(32:16):
resentments, you resentmentsthat layered on through the
years.
I didn't ever feel consciouslyErin's resentment.
I do believe, Erin, that we hadsome conversations during that
time because there were somehiccups as we went through that
business.
I think we swept a lot of thatunder the rug I would agree with

(32:40):
that for sure, and because wewere both committed to staying
sisters and staying closebecause we really were all we
had.
You know, our mom didn't have arelationship at all with her
mother, her brother, there wereno cousins, no family members,

(33:01):
nothing, and it was really justthe two of us until Pop and
Scott came into the picture veryshortly after her first cancer
diagnosis.
And so we always had thisthread of commitment and
obligation to each other.
And I think in that obligationis maybe where some of the

(33:22):
resentment took seed, it tookhold, and I absolutely
unequivocally see and understandhow Erin built resentment
through those years because ofhow the business just built and
unfolded, even though I feltlike in my heart and mind I was
doing everything in my power toensure that she had a very

(33:46):
successful business alongside myvery successful business.

Chris Howard (33:52):
I think it comes from Erin having a taste of her
own independence, Erin having ataste of her own independence,
her own, her life, away fromKellie Right and the mothering
of Kellie Right.
She goes through college andshe's got her own thing and then

(34:12):
now she's back in, kind of likeKellie shadow, right.
And so as you're, as you'resaying, like again, this
obligation, you feeling thisobligation that you have to get
Erin on the right path, you knowwhat I'm saying.
Like I have to, you know, makesure she's taken care of or
whatever.
And what Erin is saying is, atthe end of the day, I just want

(34:34):
my sister right, not necessarilyfor you to continue to feel
obligated to make sure I land onmy feet right.
And so I think that probably,right, there has always been the
theme for Erin is you have donea great job of mothering me,
stop.

(34:54):
You have done a great job,you're fired Stop, you're fired,

(35:19):
it's time to stop.
It is time to stop, right.
And so I think that's kind ofwhere where that could come from
, right.
And and then again, of course,there's as in any business,
right, there's ups and downs andthere's things that kind of
come with that.
But I could definitely see,like you know, Kellie as this
superstar executive and thenErin, who is, by her own words,
will say listen, like I'm notthe greatest student, I like to
have some fun Right and tryingto you know, maneuver in this,
in this world, where Kellie isis at the top, right, yeah, so I
could definitely see that, andI think that's one of the things

(35:39):
that I've always wanted to kindof dive into is because, as
we're laying out this story, aswe're talking about how this
will look visually, that's wherewe have to be able to show that
kind of budding of the heads,right, because that is as we
talked before.
There's a bunch of themes thatare woven in and out of this

(36:00):
story, but there are somethreads that are very linear,
that are constant.
This period in time of yourlife has to be where we start to
see some of the cracks.

Kellie (36:11):
Yeah.

Chris Howard (36:12):
You know what I mean.
Maybe we see them early on, butwe see that there continues to
be little pulls on the threadand I think those years are
super important for us to getright.
So I'm glad we had thatconversation because that
cleared it up.
I wanted you guys to kind ofhave that conversation because,
like I said, the person who'swriting this needs to see that

(36:32):
and be able to make sure thatthey get that part right.

Erin (36:36):
Sure, it's really too, because, as the baby of the
family who grew up in ahousehold with a sick mom, you
know she she was not well for alot of years of my childhood and
I think that after mom died Iwas 17.
It was my senior year of highschool and I feel like I

(37:00):
definitely just kind of fell offthe rails a little bit and was
just floundering through thattime of my life, just feeling
very lost, right, not knowinghow to manage that and coupled
with the fact that I was at aboarding school, you know, away
from my dad, away from my sister.

(37:20):
And then I went to college and,yes, like we've talked about, I
loved my college experience.
I had a lot of fun.
It took me five years and twosummers to graduate and I
entered school in my major Areally good time.
But I think it's also worthmentioning that, you know,

(37:42):
through those years I just kindof floundered my way through
school too.
I was fiercely independent anddidn't want anybody to tell me
what to do and certainly, in thethroes of grief after losing my
mom, I really didn't wantanybody to mother me not Kellie,
not my mom's friends, who triedto check in on me and mother me

(38:05):
.
I grew to really resent themfor that as well, because I was
immature enough to not be ableto recognize what the intention
was behind that.
I just didn't see it for whatit was At the time.
Now, as a 48 year old, I canlook back on that time and be

(38:25):
like, oh shoot, I was such abrat, but I didn't know that.
That's what I was at the time,right.
And then I think, as part ofthat, just feeling lost and
wanting, you know, humanconnection on the deepest level,
you know, I met and married myfirst husband very quickly.

(38:50):
We met in September, gotengaged in December and got
married in July.
So it was 10 months from whenwe met till we got married.
I was 21 or I was 24.
He was 21.
We were young.
And so I think that there'salso an element of that that all
of a sudden I was engaged toget married and my entire family

(39:11):
was like, didn't even reallyknow Erin was dating anybody.
That's true.
So I know that there wereconversations that were had
between Kellie and Scott and Pop, like what, like, what is she
doing?
Who is this guy?
You know, and again,hindsight's, 20-20.
And a lot of lessons learnedand I have two beautiful,

(39:35):
amazing children as a result ofthat marriage.
But we never had a greatmarriage, which is a whole
different topic of conversation.
But I feel like we met in 2001.
We got married in 2002.
We started with AdvoCare in thesame year, 2002.
And then I had my first son in2004, and then my second in 2006

(39:59):
.
And so it was just a crazychaotic time of life, and it
wouldn't surprise me if therewas even a subconscious feeling
that Kellie had of I have got toreel in this wild child.
Reel in this wild child becauseshe did make these promises to

(40:26):
our mom that she would take careof me and she would not let
anything bad happen to me.
And here I was, crazy,independent, out there, living
my own life, and all of a suddenI'm getting married and doing
this and doing that, and mywhole family was like what on
earth is this child doing?
And so it doesn't surprise menow, looking back on it, that

(40:49):
Kellie was like I have got totake my sister along for this
ride and do whatever I can totry to straighten out her path a
little bit, because I was, Iwas a wild card.

Chris Howard (41:33):
And Kellie, what did you think when you heard
Erin was getting married?

Kellie (41:38):
I wasn't surprised because I always knew, as wild
child as Erin was, relationshipsare at the core of who she is
as a human being.
I always knew that she wantedto be a mom and so that part of
getting married early andstarting a family early didn't

(42:00):
surprise me.
It's interesting because, aswe're having this conversation,
I had almost the same thought,Erin.
I thought to myself oh my gosh,I bet I unconsciously went into
promise, unconsciously wentinto promise caretaking,

(42:25):
mothering, maternal overdrive,because we would be remiss to
not acknowledge and kind ofuncover and unpack a little bit
that didn't start in college,that started in high school.
And there were some events thathappened in high school that of
course I knew about, eventhough I was away at college and
trying to live my own life as ayoung woman and get away right

(42:49):
from the family and mom wasactually doing pretty well
through those years and startingmy life and what's my career
going to look like and what am Igoing to study and who am I
going to be and become.
And I would get phone calls.
This was pre-cell phone,pre-texting landline only, but I
would get phone calls inBoulder and then later, after I

(43:13):
graduated in Arizona, from mom,"Erin, ran away.
I can't find her.
Erin's holed up at somebody'shouse and the parents are
protecting her and I don't knowwhere she's at.
There was quite a bit of crazystuff and I was such an idiot,

(43:34):
you know, scott and I would getin trouble academically if we
got anything under a B.
That was just not acceptableand I've got some fun stories
about that Losing my car for 17and a half weeks because I got a
C, one quarter, and that wasright pre-computer.
So you couldn't get your carback until your printed report

(43:54):
cards came back out.
You know, months and monthslater.
Anyhow, Erin wasn't doing aswell academically in high school
and I remember mom sat downwith all of her teachers.
She was concerned about thepath that Erin was going down
and the teachers looked at herpoint blank and said she's not
pregnant, she's not on drugs,she's getting decent grades.

(44:17):
What's the problem?
And you know, knowing MarshaThomas, that was not going to
work.
And so that was the beginningof looking at alternative
education opportunities andoptions and ultimately the
decision that Erin madecollectively with them, a little
begrudgingly I think, to go toboarding school.

(44:38):
And so because of all of thatexperience and because then mom
went into her second cancerdiagnosis and then her third and
terminal cancer diagnosis, asErin was still in her wild child
phase and she was sad and angryand scared about leaving her
life and her girls and her work,everything that she loved, her

(45:00):
husband, everything, her family,her friends, everything.
And her biggest fear was being apicture in the bottom of
somebody's drawer.
And we had a lot ofconversations as I was just 23,
turning 24 years old, and so Ithink I had to grow up really,
really fast on the heels ofalready having had to grow up

(45:23):
really, really fast, on theheels of having to grow up
already really, really fast,going all the way back to being
a little girl.
She, in addition to her fear ofbeing a picture in the bottom of
somebody's drawer, her fear wasleaving Erin before Erin was
old enough to take care of Erin,because she was still a kid,

(45:45):
and so I was asked to makecommitments that I think if our
mother were alive today sheprobably wouldn't ask, but she
asked him then because shedidn't know what else to do.
And I take my commitments andmy obligations and my loyalty
very, very seriously, and I'msure I took it too seriously,

(46:06):
but I had to grow up really,really fast and I'm sure that
during that phase of Erin life,unconsciously, I probably did go
into hypervigilance mode and Iwas like you are not the boss of
me, stop telling me what to doall the time.
Go far, far away.

Chris Howard (46:28):
Right.

Erin (46:29):
Just because you're bossy doesn't mean you're the boss.

Chris Howard (46:32):
Right, right.
Just because you're the bossdoesn't mean you're the boss of
me.

Kellie (46:36):
Hey, I have socks and you gave them to me.
I'm not bossy, I'm the boss.

Chris Howard (46:43):
Listen, when you buy socks, you pretty much give
up the argument.

Erin (46:46):
It's true there's a long history behind those socks, but
I mean, I think all of that isreally true and now, man, it
makes so much sense, right, butat the time it was hard and I
think that we clearly we know,especially with therapist Chris
in our pocket that there was alot of unhealed trauma at play,

(47:11):
you know, for both of us, and sowe were doing the best that we
could at the time with what weknew and what we had.
Yeah, those were really goodtimes and also some really tough
times where I do feel like, youknow, there was a wedge that
continued to just kind of growbetween us a little bit,

Kellie (47:33):
.
and those were just the earlyyears!.

Chris Howard (47:37):
Yeah, that's funny .
Kind of staying on theme of thewedges, what other instances
would you guys consider wedges?

Erin (47:48):
Wow, you start.

Chris Howard (47:50):
Outside of, of course you know your sperm donor
.

Kellie (47:57):
Oh, a big question mark just went up in the listeners
ears about that one.

Chris Howard (48:05):
Oh, that's the doozy right there.

Kellie (48:07):
Yeah, that is a doozy, that's coming.
The biological father.
Okay, I would say that therewere several business ventures
because I'm entrepreneurial bythe very nature of who I am and
given my early plans for my lifeand my career, that went in a

(48:29):
totally different directionquite unexpectedly a whole other
conversation that we'll have atsome point in time.
Coming back to Western Coloradoand stepping into some very,
very big shoes that our momfilled in this local community,
I really just went head downinto becoming a very young

(48:51):
career woman I mean just workingfor a US congressman and owning
and operating businesses andlaunching companies and getting
into the network marketing anddirect sales industry, like we
had just talked about and thattook several turns over the
course of many years and weworked with several different

(49:12):
companies and I think each oneof those opportunities both the
companies that I started, afranchise that Erin actually
introduced me to we had a gueston a previous episode who was a
co-franchisee Erin worked withand for us in that company but
also introduced us to the verycompany itself.

(49:35):
So I'm sure that there weresome feelings there about well,
I introduced you to it.
Now you open one, you're owningit, you're running it and I'm
working for you and other directsales companies that we got
involved with where there wasteam building going on,
companies that I got involvedwith that Erin decided not to

(49:56):
get involved with, and then someresentments for having said no
and not yes.
So I think it was ongoing and Ithink that they centered mostly
around businesses andopportunities that led to lack
of communication,miscommunication,

(50:19):
misunderstanding.
That all became the littlethorns and little resentments
over time that we continue toagain sweep under the rug
because at our heart level wewanted to be sisters always,
forever, unequivocally, nomatter what.

(50:39):
Yeah, and I think we'd havethose conversations right and
kind of come back to you know,we'd have some of these hard
conversations and we getourselves right again, you know,
and kind of on the same page,and then something else would
come up and some other lifecircumstance or business venture

(51:00):
or whatever, and it would justslowly unravel again.

Chris Howard (51:05):
What's been the biggest challenge for you guys
in this project?

Kellie (51:10):
In this project?
Not having enough Kleenexnearby when the conversations
get really deep and reallyemotional! I would say.
Chris, I have a really hard timeputting words to any specific
challenges associated with thisproject, other than the stories

(51:35):
and the layers are so complex.
You're talking about two verydifferent quote unquote nuclear
families and some years inbetween.
So many different characters,so many different directions,
pathways, people that I wouldsay probably the biggest

(51:56):
challenge from my perspective isthinking that I have
articulated and communicated thecomplexity clearly and yet
there's still so much more tounpack because the information
that I provided didn't answerthe question or didn't really

(52:19):
paint the full picture enough.
I'm not sure if that makessense.
It has not been challenging togo all in.
In fact, shortly after a yearago, Erin spoke with you and
then the three of us spoketogether.
Erin was in Colorado droppingher son Hadley off first

(52:40):
freshman year of college andcame to spend a few days.
And it was during those few dayswhere we sat across from each
other, Erin, at my desk in myoffice with all of our boxes and
pictures and journals, and youknow we finally pulled all that
stuff out and I remember lookingat you with tear-filled eyes

(53:02):
and said if we're going to dothis, we're going all in no
holes barred, we are not holdinganything back, because if
either one of us holds anythingback, then we're not going to
honor Chris and his vision andwe're not going to do ourselves
any favors and we're not goingto acknowledge the ultimate gift

(53:24):
that we were given, which waseach other from mom.
And I really felt from the verybeginning that, because of the
timing and the ages and thenumber of years it had been, and
there are so manysynchronicities at play that I
felt very, very compelled, likethis was our opportunity to pull

(53:46):
out all those thorns and openup all those wounds and rub off
all those scabs, that that was areal gift that was sitting in
front of us.
So it has not been challengingto talk about the really, really
hard stuff.
It maybe has been challengingsometimes to remember all of it

(54:07):
because there's so much of it.
But I would say that, Chris, Iwould say, if I can articulate a
challenge, it is just wantingto give you everything you're
asking for and then sometimesfeeling like I haven't done that
as well as I could have, or.
But we have endlessconversation, so it all always
comes out in the end.

Chris Howard (54:25):
Yeah, we, we always get there eventually and
I think in the beginning of itis as open as you guys are.
There were times where it didfeel like you guys were holding
back and probably because youknow again, you know again me
coming in thinking that thefences have been mended right,
where there's actually a couple,you know a couple, of gates

(54:47):
still open and not necessarilyconnected that maybe you guys
didn't kind of want to saycertain things to negate all the
progress that you guys had madeup until that point.
You know what I mean, andthat's the thing about
television and film is, andthat's why I always say, like we
don't want this to be thehallmark movie of the month.

(55:08):
We want this thing to be as rawand as real as possible,
because we need people toidentify themselves in these
characters.
Right, they need to be able tosee themselves in these
characters.
Yeah, there's flaws, but wealso have to strip it down to
who these characters are intheir truest essence.

(55:29):
And again, I was a strangercoming in like how vulnerable
could you be to you know someblack dude you just met through
Erin boyfriend, right?
But I think, as we went furtherand further into the story I
mean, each week it was like Iwas like oh shit, I didn't know
it was this.
Like I didn't know it was this,I didn't know it was, oh my God

(55:50):
, like are you kidding me?
Each week was like a differentreveal.
It was like a television showwas this tune in next week and
you'll find out, like every week.
I was getting left on acliffhanger and I'm like damn, I
got to wait till next Friday tofind out.

(56:10):
Did JR die Like you know what?
I mean, like that's like it was.
I feel like I was getting lefton a cliffhanger.
So each week we talked, it wasso much more revealing, right,
and I think the more comfortableyou guys got, the more you felt
that you could open and be yourtrue selves to me, cause at the
end of the day again, that'swhat we have to be able to, uh,

(56:31):
to get out there.
And I think, for for mepersonally, I think it's just
been um biggest challenge for mehas just been the layers, right
, that we always talk about andthe complexity of trying to
weave everybody's charactersinto into one, into one timeline
.
I think that's been the thebiggest challenge because, like

(56:51):
I said before, it's easy if Iwas doing a story on Abraham
Lincoln, right, like I just gotone person to focus on and just
tell his story, um, but we'vegot three you know three people
and then also other supportingcharacters, right, like we have
Scott stories, but I know popstories, katie story, you know,
so you've got like a bunch ofother people that play intricate

(57:13):
parts in this piece.
So that's been the biggestchallenge to me.
And then also my shitty memory,thank God for for.
AI and AI transcript so I canalways go back to see what was
said.
But you know, I'm happy withwhere we are.
We still have a ways to go.
Right now, we're currentlyputting together the Bible and

(57:35):
for people that don't know whatthe Bible is, the Bible is
basically.
It's the heart of what thisproject is.
It's the who, what, when, whereand why.
It's the log line, it's thesynops is.
It's the who, what, when, whereand why.
It's the log line, it's thesynopsis, it's the settings,
it's the characters, it'scharacter arcs when does Kellie
story start and where does sheend in the story?

(57:56):
And same thing for Erin.
We want to see these charactersstart from one place and then
end entirely somewhere else.
And so right now that's theprocess that we're in right now
is putting together the Bible,and we're being very meticulous
with that information because,again, there's a lot.
Marsha had a very.
You know she may not have beenhere long, but she lived a life.

(58:19):
She lived a life worth livingand you, as her daughters,
continue that.

Erin (58:49):
So you know there's a lot of information there, but you
know, I think we're doing a goodjob of putting it all together.
I love that.
It's interesting because Ithink for me echoing Kellie
there's been really nothingwithin our conversations and

(59:13):
actually working on this projectthat I would identify as
challenging.
I look forward to every singleconversation, and I would even
venture to say that I lookforward to every conversation
more today than I did a year agobecause of how far we've come
and how much we've grown, and sothe only thing that I would

(59:34):
identify as challenging for meis I feel like I don't have
enough hours in my day working afull-time job and you know,
really working on this projecton the side.
And then you know the decisionthat we made to launch the
podcast, and now I had no ideahow much work that was going to

(59:58):
be.
And so for me, so much of thechallenges quote unquote if you
will really lie in me almostfeeling like I'm not doing all
that I can and doing all that Ishould be doing to make sure
that we are being good stewardsof your time and energy and

(01:00:19):
really moving things forward onthe podcast side as part of the
project and part of what we'redoing, and so that would be what
I would tag as kind of has been.
The most challenging is just,I'm like, oh man, I just wish I
could do this full time and Iwish I could scan in all my
photos and go through all thejournals and, you know, give you

(01:00:40):
everything that you needexactly in the moment that you
need it, give you everythingthat you need exactly in the
moment that you need it, andthat Kellie and I could just do
all the production and all thepromotion and grow the podcast
by leaps and bounds,exponentially, every single day.
That would be absolutely mydream.
But that's been the mostchallenging thing for me is

(01:01:01):
balancing this project with theother demands of life.
Good answer, now, who's a goodstudent?

Chris Howard (01:01:13):
I think you guys are doing great, because I think
right now it's really justmaking sure the characters are
right, and I think the thingthat's probably left is really
nailing down your mom, becauseeven during our last
conversation, some of the thingsthat I wrote, I think, painted
her in a different picture thanshe.

(01:01:34):
I think sometimes we get socaught up in like saying like
this person is so strong, thisperson is so strong, but yet we
don't recognize the fear, and Ithink that's one of the things
that we have to get right is,while it's accomplished, as she
was and as fierce as she was,there was some fear there, there
was some insecurity there,there was anger, there was a lot

(01:01:58):
of different emotions.
That's one of the things that wehave to get right as well is
how we describe her as this realperson and not a Mother Teresa
saint right, who is, you know,this perfect individual, but
again showing someone who is allthose things right Happy, you

(01:02:19):
know, adventurous, all thosethings and at the same time,
vulnerable and scared andinsecure and driven by different
things.
I think that's the thing thatwe have to get right also.

Erin (01:02:30):
Yeah, I agree with that completely, because I want and
we've said this from thebeginning that we want this
story to be realistic, we wantit to be told as a true
reflection of her life and ourlives.
And it's easy, especially whenyou're talking about our mom

(01:02:50):
right, who's no longer here andwe miss her.
And it's easy to look into thepast with rose colored glasses,
if you will and to focus on allgood and all the positive and
all the things you really wantto remember, on all good and all
the positive and all the thingsyou really want to remember.
Yeah, and it is important torecognize that she was still

(01:03:10):
human, we're all still human,and so it's okay to at least for
me personally right to lookback on some of these things and
admit like, oh, here's where Imessed up, here's where I fell
off the rails, here's you knowall of those things.
But then, recognizing thosethings in her as well and the

(01:03:31):
difficulties and the challengesand the places that she quote
unquote fell short, you know,whatever that means.
But just to be open toacknowledging the imperfections
of every single person andcharacter, I think is really
important.
So thank you for alwaysreminding us of that.

Chris Howard (01:03:50):
Yeah, and I think it's you know.
Again, I think she was.
She was someone to other peopleand you want people to come
away from saying like, yep,that's Marsha right, because she
was someone to everyone thatwas in their orbit.
Whoever she was to Erin may bedifferent to who she was to

(01:04:10):
someone at work.
You know, and so you.
We want to be able to make surethat we're telling that story.

The Sisters (01:04:16):
Absolutely Well, and I think that too, you know
you have interviewed a lot ofpeople right, Family members and
non non family members, some ofher friends and co workers and
all of that.
And so, you know, one of myfavorite conversations that we
had was with her dear friend,Dick Maynard, who was like

(01:04:36):
"Marsha came to me with this andI was like, absolutely not,
we're still competing forairtime, you know, and just kind
of, you know, revealing thatside of her that was playful but
also driven and laser focusedon.
You know that she was goingafter what she wanted and really
headstrong, and so it was funfor me to hear about some of

(01:05:01):
those things, even early on inher career, that I didn't know
about, and that was a greatconversation.
How about you, Kellie?

Kellie (01:05:09):
I think that what all of this has brought to light for
me is I'll steal the title ofBrene Brown's book, The Gifts of
Imperfection, and that throughour imperfections and
acknowledging them, owning them,remembering them, embracing

(01:05:31):
them, has not only allowed me tobecome a better human being to
myself, to Marcus, to Reis, Lily, Savannah, to our granddaughter
Reign, to you, Erin, to Hadleyand Weston, but it has also
allowed me to see my mom as justthe real human being that she

(01:05:54):
was, that she struggled with herimperfections to the day she
died.
She struggled withimperfections that were her own,
that she created through theliving of her life.
She struggled with theimperfections of the scars that
she was left with from multiplesurgeries and radiation and

(01:06:19):
chemotherapy, the imperfectionsthat came from growing up in a
broken home in the 1940s and 50sand then basically having no
and, if any, a pretty terriblerelationship with her mother and
her brother her whole entirelife, to the point where in the

(01:06:39):
final hours of her life, she waswhispering what have I done so
wrong in my life?
That this is my penance andthat has always made me very,
very, very sad for her and whatit has done through these
conversations and through somereally intense contemplation and

(01:07:01):
reflection over the last 30years, since her passing 31
years this year, is I want toembrace all of those
imperfections in myself while Iam still alive so that I can
face my own end of life withmore happiness and grace and

(01:07:25):
acceptance, because it is goingto happen to all of us and I
think a huge part of hers wasI'm 47.
I'm married to the love of mylife, my children are still
young.
I desperately want to be agrandma someday.
I have the career of my dreams,and she had to say goodbye to

(01:07:48):
all of it.
She was very young, so thisentire process has taught me
more about how I want to chooseto live every single day, and
I'm grateful for that.
That's really beautiful.
Thank you for sharing all thatand I'm grateful for that.
That's really beautiful.

Chris Howard (01:08:05):
Thank you for sharing all that.
Yeah, I didn't know that.
Again, they see, here's anotherone of those nuggets that just
falls out from talking that yourmother I mean we, I know we
talked about her again beingangry about that, that this is
how she's going to end her lifeor this is how it's going to end
, and then you kind of takingthat in and kind of flipping

(01:08:26):
that For me it's just, you know,I think about, as I mentioned
before, like my own mortality,and you know, I think we can all
try to prepare for it and weall understand that one day it's
going to happen, but we neverknow how we're going to deal
with it.
Especially if you feel likeit's shortened right, if you
feel like you haven't done allthe things that you thought you

(01:08:47):
were going to be able to do, I'msure a lot of us will feel a
whole lot different about how wechoose to meet our end.

Kellie (01:08:55):
Yeah, absolutely so, Chris, do you have any other hot
seat questions for the sisterstoday?

Chris Howard (01:09:03):
I don't think I have any hot seat, any more hot
seat questions for the sisterstoday?
I don't think I have any morehot seat questions.
I'm sure, as we continue totalk, there probably will be.
But I think for me and again wealways talk about this is just
making sure I get it right,Making sure the characters are
the characters, because thecharacters are going to tell the
story.
The actors are going to have tobe the ones to breathe life

(01:09:24):
into the characters.
I want this to be such acharacter-rich project that it
is attractive to the who's whoof Hollywood, that everybody
wants to play these characters.
And I think by showing thecomplexity, the messiness of
life, that's where really goodactors really get to get into
these characters and reallybring out the best of themselves

(01:09:47):
and help them face their ownissues as well.

Kellie (01:09:51):
Well, I'm going to put you in the hot seat.

Chris Howard (01:09:53):
All right.

Kellie (01:09:55):
What has been your favorite part of working with us
over the last year and how hasthis impacted your own life?

Chris Howard (01:10:07):
My favorite part.
That is a hot seat question.
I think my favorite part is Ithink I've mentioned this before
, but I don't know too manypeople that have gone through
what you guys have gone throughand still maintain your level of
love and compassion for lifeand for what you give to others

(01:10:30):
and the love and compassion thatyou give to each other.
A lot of those instances breakpeople and those people become
jaded cynical.
Definitely not half glass fullpeople right.
And so I just look at all thatyou guys continue to give as I
face my own challenges in my ownlife, the things that I'm going

(01:10:53):
through personally.
That gives me hope and gives mestrength to be strong for the
people that I need to be strongfor.
So that's yeah.

Kellie (01:11:03):
Well, that is a gift, Thank you, yes, it is.

Chris Howard (01:11:07):
No, thank you guys .
Again, how we face challenges,I think says a lot about who we
are as people.

Erin (01:11:13):
Well and like we talk about all the time, especially
on this podcast, is changing theway we think about and talk
about legacy and what that means, and that legacy isn't just
what we leave behind, but thatit's how we live.
That is your legacy, how youlive your life right now is your
legacy, and the gift that wehave been given through this

(01:11:38):
process of working on thisproject and knowing you and the
gift of our sisterhood haschanged a lot of other aspects
of my life and the way that Ilive it and really realizing
what's really important in thislife.

(01:11:58):
You know where to focus yourtime and attention and energy.
You know I feel like I've letgo of some things that needed to
be let go of, right, and thereare things now that come up in
my life literally over the Imean the last months, the last
year for sure where things thatwould have sidelined me before

(01:12:21):
that I can let just roll off myback a little bit easier because
they don't serve me, and aclassic line from Kellie is I'm
just not available for that forthings that that just don't make
my life better, so I'm quickerto forgive, and there's just
been a lot, of, a lot ofincredible life lessons and a

(01:12:43):
lot of beauty that's come out ofworking on this project.

Kellie (01:12:48):
Well, and a big side shout out to Marcus, because he
taught me I'm available for thatand I'm not available for that,
and the gift of being able toestablish and set boundaries.
But I concur with you, erinthere are things that we do need
to lose.
There are losses that arereally hard, but there are also

(01:13:09):
some things that we need to loseas human beings and let go of
and be okay with that, andworking on this project has
absolutely helped me with thattoo, and I love building a
living legacy with the two ofyou.

Erin (01:13:27):
Amen , siste,
Amen

The Sisters (01:13:44):
.
Hearing the stories of othershelps us create a more
meaningful connection to our own.
We hope today's conversationoffered you insight,
encouragement or even just amoment to pause and reflect on
the story you're living and thelegacy you're creating.
A moment to pause and reflecton the story you're living and
the legacy you're creating.

(01:14:05):
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(01:14:26):
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It's a place to remember that,even in the midst of grief, life
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Resilience matters and lovenever leaves.
Thanks for being on thisjourney with us.

(01:14:46):
Until next time.
Hogs and kisses everyone.