Forged in Silence: Steve Knapp on Recovery, Resilience & Connection

Some stories are forged in silence. For Steve Knapp, the weight of carrying secrets finally gave way to a single act of truth—the night he admitted his drinking and chose to change his life.

In this conversation, Steve shares his powerful journey from addiction to recovery and the lessons he’s carried into fatherhood, personal growth, and his work creating safe spaces for connection and honest dialogue — especially around men's mental health — through his podcasts, Through the Glass Recovery and Forged in Silence.

With raw honesty and vulnerability, Steve reflects on:

• The cost of self-abandonment 
• The courage it takes to come back to yourself.
• Why strangers can sometimes offer the safest spaces for healing.
• Redefining fear as something to walk alongside, not run from.
• Creating connection in a world that often feels disconnected.

Whether you’ve faced addiction, carried hidden shame, or simply struggled to be present in your own life, Steve’s inspiring story is a reminder that we don’t climb life’s mountains alone—and the view is always better when shared.

👉 Listen, share, and join the conversation at thePIGpodcast.com

Support the show

Hearing the stories of others helps us create a more meaningful connection to our own—because legacy isn’t just what we leave behind, it’s how we live right now.

💬 Love what you’re hearing?
Please subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a 5-star review, and share this episode with someone who may need to hear it.

🔗 Want to connect?
If you have a powerful personal story or meaningful expertise to share, we’d love to hear from you. Learn more about The P-I-G, apply to be a guest, or explore sponsorship opportunities at:
🌐 www.thepigpodcast.com
📬 thepigpodcast.com/contact

📱 Follow along:
Facebook
Instagram

💖 Support this work:
Each episode is created with deep care and intention. If The P-I-G has touched your heart, please consider supporting us so we can keep sharing these powerful conversations: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2449606/support

Episode Transcript

The Sisters (00:05):
Some stories are forged in silence when, the pain
of carrying secrets becomesheavier than the fear of
speaking them out loud.
For Steve Knapp, that momentcame the night he made the bold
decision to tell the truth abouthis drinking and face the lies
he carried and the life he washiding.
He hasn't had a drink since.
What followed was bothheartbreaking and hopeful the

(00:26):
unraveling of self-abandonment,the ending of a marriage and the
rediscovery of who he couldbecome when he chose honesty,
authenticity and kindness oversilence, secrecy and shame.
Today, Steve joins us to sharehis journey from addiction to
recovery and the powerful workhe's now doing to create safe
spaces for healing andconnection, especially around

(00:50):
men's mental health, through hispodcasts Forged in Silence and
Through the Glass Recovery.
Whether you're in the depths ofaddiction or simply navigating
the struggles of everyday life,Steve story is one of resilience
, perseverance and grace, and areminder that none of us, no
matter what we face, are evertruly alone.

(01:10):
Welcome to The P-I-G, where weexplore life, love, loss and
legacy through realconversations and meaningful
stories, with purpose, intentionand gratitude.
I'm Kellie and I'm Erin.
We're sisters, best friends,sometimes polar opposites, but
always deeply connected by thelife and love of the woman who

(01:30):
taught us to be courageous andbrave, our mother Marsha.

Kellie (01:51):
So the question, Steve of the day
heartfelt versions of Steve andThe Sisters today or the ranty
ones?

Steve Knapp (01:59):
I'm going to guess you're probably going to get the
heartfelt version of it ofSteve today.
We'll see if the ranty versionof me comes out.
If you want to check out theranty version of me, you can see
it on Forged in Silence,because every once in a while -
I don't go off in a bad way -but there are certain things
that touch my heart, that I getpassionate about, and that's

(02:21):
where the rants come from.

Kellie (02:23):
Well, we are just absolutely thrilled to have you
here today, Steve.
You do host two podcasts -Through the Glass Recovery and
Forged in Silence podcast - andwe look forward to learning
about them as we have ourconversation today ( you and
your co-host, Julie Miller) andkind of how those podcasts came
to be.
And I really love what you'redoing with creating connection

(02:46):
and connection being theopposite of addiction.
And as we were preparing forthis recording today, I'm just
going to dive right in.
.
.
Because, you said a few thingsin your bio and in the
information that you sent to usthat I found very powerful.
So I'm just going to startthere.

Steve Knapp (03:04):
Go for it.
I'm a pretty darn open book.

Kellie (03:08):
All right.

Steve Knapp (03:09):
Main reason for that is I've had enough stuff in
my life, so it's just not worththe effort.
It's just not.
I'd just rather live inintegrity instead.

Kellie (03:20):
Well, integrity is where it's all at right.
Today's conversation is reallygoing to explore your powerful
personal journey throughaddiction, self-discovery and
really living a purpose-drivenlife, rebuilt from the bottom up
.
You said something that I wantto share right off the bat: "I
told the truth, the wholeshameful truth, about the lies I

(03:43):
had told to hide my addiction.

Steve Knapp (03:46):
Yep, heartfelt Steve.
.
.

Kellie (03:46):
"and absolutely powerful one human being can be.
Heartfelt Steve Yep.
We'd love to hear more aboutyour story to the work that

(04:16):
you're doing today to reallybring awareness to the
importance of mental health, andI know your focus really is on
men, but every single thing Iknow we're going to talk about
today applies to all humanbeings, and so this, this is an
interview for everybody.

Steve Knapp (04:33):
Yeah, it might be a focus on men, but we all need
each other.
Here's the ranty, Steve.
We all need each other.
Rant incoming.
W hen you have podcasts, youlive a portion of your life on
social media.
You just do, whether you're outthere sharing what you've
created, or you're out gettingideas, or you're trying to find

(04:58):
guests.
That's where we're finding eachother and there's a lot of us
out there.
And in the midst of all of that, because algorithms now have
really changed to what isgrabbing and keeping your
attention not necessarily whatyou like, but it's all about
your attention.
So, you get stuck on one thingand then it'll continue feeding

(05:21):
that same stuff to you.
So, on the Forged in Silencepodcast, when I log into that
account and I start looking atit, I get two things.
I get versions of women hatingon men.
Then I get like the sexualversion of whatever is floating

(05:42):
around on the internet and it'snot like I click on any of it,
and it's not like I click on anyof it and it's not like Robbie
clicks on any of it.
We've literally had thisconversation.
But those are the two thingsthat show up on the Instagram
feed for that platform, outsideof the people that I follow,
which I find really interesting.
I see that stuff and I see likewe're already disconnected in a

(06:04):
world where we're told we'resuper connected and then we use
these devices as a means to stayconnected to people or, you
know, share a picture orwhatever it may be.
We're missing getting outside,we're missing going out for
coffee, we're missing actualhuman interaction, and I'm just

(06:25):
starting to figure this out nowand I'm seeing it in what looks
like epic kind of proportions.
We just don't get out.
We don't knock on a door.
Anymore we don't pick up thephone and actually make a phone
call before we text, becausewe're worried about it being
intrusive.

Kellie (06:51):
Yeah, we really are.
We've become a verydisconnected culture.
And AI is contributing to that,probably now more than ever.
But the more technology grows,the greater our disconnect and
the less our connection, whichis why I think the work that
you're doing in connectingpeople together and you have
reconnected to yourself.

Steve Knapp (07:10):
Yeah, do you want to go back to that quote that
you read from what I wrote?

Kellie (07:15):
Sure, and the second part of that was you said,
"strangers, save my life.

Steve Knapp (07:20):
Absolutely.

The Sisters (07:21):
"The people who didn't know me had the greatest
lasting effect on who I am andwhat drives me today.

Steve Knapp (07:29):
A stranger is someone who has no strings
attached to any of your problems.

Erin (07:33):
Wow.

Steve Knapp (07:34):
Nothing.
So, when a stranger reaches outand says I'm willing to listen,
what do they have to lose?
Their time.
And when you reach out to astranger, what do you have to
gain?
Their perspective.
And so it's way easier to saysomething hard to a stranger
than it is to your spouse oryour best friend or someone that

(07:54):
you love, because you're soafraid of not having the right
words or you're so afraid ofhurting their feelings or you're
so afraid, like the laundrylist happens there, even though
you need to know you need tohave that conversation, it needs
to exist in your life.
You need to create the rip inthe relationship to make it
better.

(08:14):
It has to happen.
But what happens when you don'thave the words?
And what happens when you'retoo scared?
I told a lot of my secrets, alot of my secrets, a lot of the
things that..
.
but when I say secrets, I meanthe things that I was ashamed of
.
Even the drinking and drivingwith my kids in the car, like

(08:35):
literally open bottle whilethey're sleeping in the back -
stuff I'm not absolutely proudof at all.
Like that stuff hurts.
But the only way to not bealone in the things you're
ashamed of is to let them goSome of the safest spaces I've
found to share.
The shame is for people thathave no strings attached at all.

(08:56):
Some of those people havebecome my best of friends.

Kellie (09:00):
What an incredible gift that is and I think that, Steve,
that's a testament to thegreatest gifts are held within
our deepest, darkest secrets andshadows and only coming face to
face with that.
Only being truly, deeply,authentically honest with
ourselves, first and foremost,above everybody else and not.

(09:24):
You know, you don't have totell the world everything, but
that is the only place that wewill ever be able to capture and
embrace and hold on to thatgift, that goodness, that
greatness that exists in thosespaces.

Steve Knapp (09:39):
It's like one of those things that makes you want
to be a stranger to somebodyelse because there was a
stranger that helped you digyourself out of that hole.
Right?
There is always a piece of myheart that is going to make time
for someone who says, can youlisten?
And there'll be a part of methat'll want to give advice.
Right?
There will be the fix it part.

(10:00):
And as I grow up - and I saygrow up, I'm 43 years old - but
as I grow up, I feel like I'veonly really started growing up
since I was 39 because I quitwhen I was 39.
So, I'm just over four and ahalf years sober.
So when you talked about thatday when I finally put the
bottle down, I haven't touchedit since.
I have done everything in myabsolute power to put as much

(10:24):
distance between that and thatversion of myself that I
possibly could.
That man gave me one thing thecourage to stop, and I'll
forever be grateful for that.
There's so many lessons in mypast that I get to take with me
today that helped me be a betterman, that being one of them

(10:47):
when that credit card bill wasfound and my now ex-wife
approached me and she gave methe option.
It was like almost $800 worthof booze purchased in that month
on that credit card.
And I had a friend who was.
.
.
we knew he had an alcoholproblem, and she said are you
buying booze for him?

(11:07):
I sat there in silence thinkingof do.
Do I throw this guy under thebus to save myself?

Erin (11:16):
Would have been easy to do that.
.
.

Steve Knapp (11:18):
Or do I stop carrying the lie and the lie is
huge when we don't deal withthings, we just put them in our
emotional backpack and we carrythem around with us for a really
long time.
And, like, I feel sorry - and Ifeel compassion - for people
that walk around angry all thetime because they're the ones
that have an emotional backpackthat isn't being taken care of.

(11:38):
And until I face those and talkabout them, because I'm a huge
proponent of talking about whatit is that you're struggling
with and until we can figure ourown version of giving it away,
then we just like the darknessthat goes into the light.
It's just the one, it's oneless thing you get to carry.
You make it real.
As soon as it leaves my mouth,it becomes real.

(12:01):
Then I can do something aboutit.

Kellie (12:07):
So, Steve, would you be open to.
.
.

Steve Knapp (12:12):
The answer is yes.

Kellie (12:15):
Taking us from where you were to that day, because we'd
love to get to know and haveeverybody listening, get to know
you before and you now, whichis going to carry us into what
you're doing and the passionthat you hold in your heart
today for helping people unloadthat very heavy emotional

(12:40):
backpack, which is somethingthat's essential for making
progress in life.

Steve Knapp (12:46):
Big time, big time.
Before that day, I did a lot ofthe things this is the first
thing that comes to my mind.
I did a lot of the things thatother people told me I should do
, without really making my owndecisions.
For me, I get the option tohave a promotion and have the

(13:07):
conversation with my wife, andit would be like, "you should do
that.
You should do that, right, itwould be good for you know, you
get off shift work, you get offthis, and even in that, like I
was on the fence.
And then the career path that Itook was one that my father
suggested to me, and in thatsuggestion was you know, "I'll

(13:29):
pay for your school, and I'mgrateful for this, don't get me
wrong.
I'll pay for your school, takethis course, you'll do well,
you'll make money.
And so I took chemicalproduction, engineering
technology, and after Igraduated that and my marks
weren't great, but I graduated,and actually I'm going to rewind
one quick minute.
One year into that course, Iwas questioning whether that was

(13:52):
the thing that I wanted to doand you're going to get a kick
out of this one.
I grabbed a pamphlet for theradio and communications program
at Lambton College in Sarnia(Ontario, Canada) and.
.
.
I said I know you're going toget a kick out of this.
.
.
like I'm a podcaster now, right?

Erin (14:07):
You're like, "h, I will never use that.

Steve Knapp (14:10):
Well, that's what my father told me.
He found the pamphlet and said"that's stupid, you're not,
you're not going to do wellthere.
You know what I mean and I feltshamed.
Felt not shamed, I felt ashamedof wanting to explore something
different than the suggestedpath.
So not understanding my voice,not understanding a lot in life,

(14:35):
I was still young and so okay,if I do these things and then
I'm going to live a good life.
That's essentially what youknow.
Follow the path, do the thing.
You know what I mean.
So I followed the path and Idid the thing and in my early to
mid 20s my drinking picked up,and then in my 30s my drinking
picked up even more.
Like I have don't have a lot ofmemories from my 30s Like

(14:58):
that's a decade that's prettymuch lost in my mind.
In the meantime, I worked at thesame company for 19 and a half
years.
Right out of college I workedin a corn wet milling facility.
I made high fructose corn syrupfrom corn.
S o like, after nine years, Igot promoted to being supervisor
of the guys that I worked with,and a couple of years later I

(15:20):
became in charge of half theoperation of the facility, and I
had that responsibility forbasically the remainder of my
career.
And as time went on, I createdmore and more distance from
myself.
And what does that look like?
Like a greater disconnect.
If I have words for it today, Iwould call that

(15:41):
self-abandonment.
And you don't just abandonyourself in one fell swoop.
You say yes to a lot of thingsthat don't align to you because
you're afraid to say no.
And over a period of time,every one of those little cuts
adds up to creating a life thatI don't know how to deal with

(16:03):
anymore.
And I used alcohol to cope 100%.
I used alcohol as my way ofgetting through the day and
getting through the hard, and soon and so forth, and so I
developed that mechanism as away to continue the disconnect,
even though that was my way ofsoothing it continue the

(16:25):
disconnect, even though that wasmy way of soothing it.

Kellie (16:26):
What I heard, Steve is and you're so passionate about
connection now, but that time ofdisconnecting from yourself,
that era of self-abandonment,what filled that gap was that
liquid.
.
.

Steve Knapp (16:51):
Straight up 100%.
I mean, I was members of.
.
.
I was a team member of adodgeball team.
You cannot connect with peoplewhen you're one, two, three or
18 sheets from the wind.
You just can't.
When you aren't present withyourself, you're not present
with anyone else.
It is just the lie you tellyourself to keep yourself
comfortable from dealing withthe thing you need to actually
deal with.
So, was I having fun with thosepeople in that moment?

(17:14):
Yes, absolutely I was.
But if I was to take away thebooze, was I having fun?
It's a question I can't answerbecause that's how I live my
life.
As soon as you take away thebooze, because it became my main
method of showing up in life,who the hell are you now?

(17:36):
Who the hell am I?
At some point in time, itbecame basically my best friend.
And you take that away, andwhat do I have left?
My mother said to me as I wascrying on the phone - because
she doesn't understand - I don'texpect her to.
"How come you have a wonderfulhouse?

(17:57):
you have a beautiful house outin the country - and I did - you
have brand new vehicles, youhave a beautiful wife, you have
two beautiful little children.
How can you be hurting so much?
The house, the car, arelationship that's really
disconnected because I wasdisconnected from me.
It makes the rest of it reallynot matter, because how am I

(18:19):
supposed to show up and givewhen I don't even know what that
looks like for me?

Erin (18:37):
So, what you said was so powerful about the fact that we

(19:10):
can't connect to other people ifwe are not connected to
ourselves, and I've actuallynever heard it worded quite like
that.
You know, we hear you can'tlove others if you don't love
yourself first.
You know, and things like that.
But that connection piece iscritical.

Steve Knapp (19:30):
What does that look like, though?
Like how do you explain that tosomeone?
The word connection is likethis.
.
.
first, it's a buzzword.
Next, is what is reallyinvolved in it?
Right?
How do I reconnect with myself?
What's involved in it, right?
How do I reconnect with myself?
I have to start making decisionsand trusting my gut and doing

(19:50):
things that other people aren'ttelling me to do.
The disconnect from me is Idon't trust myself.
I have a lack of trust in myown ability, and until I start
actually taking an actiontowards proving to me that I can
trust the decisions that I'mmaking.
First of all, I have to makethem as simple as "what do you

(20:11):
want for dinner.
If you constantly say I don'tknow what you want and you add
that up over a decade a simplelittle decision like that how
are you going to know what foodyou actually like?
Because you're not making thedecision.
You're just deciding based onthe choice of someone else,
whether you like what you'reeating or not.
Where's your own commitment?

(20:33):
So that's where it started.
But I did something thatapparently is really crazy at
the very beginning of anyone'srecovery, after I wrote an email
to the local AA people, becausethat was the only recovery that
I knew existed.
And I got sober in the middle ofCOVID.
The next day I picked up thephone and I called my parents,

(20:54):
and I told them I had a problemwith alcohol, that I was going
to need their support, and I hadno idea what that looked like.
Tears, absolutely in tears, thewhole time.
The next day I invited mywife's parents over for dinner
and I told them face to facethat I had a problem with
alcohol and I needed theirsupport, and I didn't know what

(21:16):
that looked like.
Then I called her sister andthen I called my sister.
So, I told immediate family onboth sides within the first four
days of my sobriety.
I figured if I wasn't going tostand behind it, I was going to
start standing in front of it.
I felt like the right thing todo.
And I'm going to say today, itwas 100% the right thing to do,

(21:39):
even though.
.
.

Erin (21:39):
I was just going to say it was very brave.

Steve Knapp (21:49):
You can be brave when you have no idea what the
result of whatever your actionsare going to be.
It's really easy to be brave,because in that moment, I mean,
I called HR at work and toldthem that I had a problem on day
one and whatever thoseconsequences were going to be, I
was willing to face them.
Go ahead and rip the band-aidoff.
Let's get the tears.
Let's start being honest.

(22:10):
And I think what I found inthat first night - and it was
embarrassing and shameful andall of that - I think I found so
much freedom in that I was justwilling to keep going.
I was dying inside to saysomething.
There were nights where I wascrying, I was a puddle on the
floor, three sheets to the wind.

(22:33):
Three sheets to the wind, apuddle on the floor saying, "I
need this to stop.
What this was, the voice insideof my head was I need this pain
to end, and I didn't know howto explain it.
There was no other words for it.
There was nothing.
It just needed to stop.
I didn't know.
It was the alcohol part thatneeded to stop.

(22:54):
I was going to get sleepstudies done and all of the rest
of the things and see an ear,nose and throat specialist,
because I wouldn't blame alcoholfor what my health problems
were.
I remember telling myself thatwhen I hit 200 pounds I was
going to have to do somethingdifferent.
I didn't quit until I was 215pounds.

Kellie (23:17):
I think it's interesting that, and you bring up
something that's reallypowerful, is the awareness and
that deep knowing inside of yourbeing that something had to
stop - that there was a painthat existed - but looking
everywhere else except directlyright into the eyes of that pain

(23:46):
.
And I also think it was reallyinteresting, as you were talking
about bravery, that the braverywas standing up to and looking
that pain in the eyes.
Then the courage comes insustaining that over time as
that scab starts to heal, thatwound starts to heal and it gets
itchy.

Steve Knapp (24:04):
Oh yeah, and it gets itchy.
You start waking up to a lot ofthe things that I didn't create
boundaries for - a lot of theways that I felt I should be
treated better.
You wake up to the disconnectthat you created.
I woke up to the disconnectthat I created.
That's on me 100%.

(24:26):
Even in the relationship, youdo the best you can with what
you have.
Eventually, our relationshiphad to come to an end and out of
respect for her, I won't gointo too much detail into that,
but our relationship had to cometo an end.
It came to a point where weweren't willing to get past
resentment and, okay, I guesswe're gonna have to do something

(24:49):
different and at some point,you have to start believing in
yourself.
At some point you have to leavethe comfort zones that you
create in your life to go andfind out what's really out there
.
Because I lived in a reallytight little safe box.
And the first time I packed upand I came out to Colorado to

(25:10):
visit, it blew my box wide open,absolutely.

Erin (25:16):
Where did you live?
Where were you from?
Where are you from originally?

Steve Knapp (25:20):
Southwestern Ontario.
So, like London, Ontario.
I lived in that town and aroundthat town for basically the 19
and a half years that I worked.
So there's London, Sarnia, alittle bit of Toronto suburbs
area.
But I came to the mountains tovisit a friend, which was Julie,

(25:40):
who's the co-host of Throughthe Glass Recovery podcast, and
we went on a backpacking trip upto Blue Lakes for one night.
.
.
and my whole world changed.
In that short backpacking trip,I realized that I didn't need a
lot to live, I didn't needthings to be happy.
I couldn't believe it.

(26:02):
I walked up to Blue Lakes andwhen you get to the top of that
trail and then you can just seethe mountains and the lake, I
cried for half an hour.
I couldn't believe that that'swhere I was.
I just couldn't.
You got to be kidding me.
Is this what sobriety has togive me?

Kellie (26:18):
Wow, what a gift for you in that moment to give me.

Steve Knapp (26:22):
Yeah, everything changed.
Everything.
From there on, I stoppedcollecting things I didn't need,
I began to declutter my lifeand I began to understand that
there was really simple thingsthat could have such a great

(26:42):
impact, like a one burner stoveand a frying pan.
It sounds silly when I say that,but I literally designed my
truck so I could live out of theback of it.
I got a 2019 Dodge Ram, and Igot pullout storage in the
bottom of it ,and I've gone onroad trips and lived out of that
thing for 40 plus days - allthe way down to Big Bend

(27:03):
National Park in Texas, right onthe Rio Grande, all the way up
to Glacier National Park inMontana.

Erin (27:11):
I was just there! That's so cool.
.
.

Steve Knapp (27:13):
It's gorgeous, it's absolutely gorgeous up there.
And, uh, there's certainmoments you get when you do
crazy stuff, that realize thatyou're okay with who you are and
you're okay with living in yourown mind.
I drove.
The first time I came here, Iflew.
The second time I came here, Idrove, and that's 1,600 miles,

(27:38):
and at some point I got tired oflistening to the music and I
just I realized that I wasmissing the drive because I was
just paying attention toeverything but.
So I turned off the music and Isat with myself for like seven
hours in complete silence, justdriving.
There was a lot of me that wasjust afraid of being alone with

(27:59):
me.
Where was my mind going to takeme?
If I could keep myselfdistracted, I won't have to
listen to it.
If I can keep myself distracted, I won't have to face the truth
.
And that's what I was avoidingwas the truth.

Kellie (28:13):
How was that seven hours of silence for you?
What happened to Steve duringthat time?

Steve Knapp (28:28):
I cried a lot.
I get these moments in my mindwhere, like, an epiphany will
kind of happen and somethingkind of like blows up.
You get this idea, someone sayssomething in a way that you
wish you could have put words to.
Then you have your a-ha momentbecause someone put that puzzle
together for you, becausethey've linked three or four
emotions, and you're like whoa,and what will happen is for me

(28:50):
is things like it'll be like avideo of events in my life that
start to get explained.
L ike I see a form of how I'mabandoning myself in a
relationship, or with friends,or whatever that is, by having a
conversation with someone.
And then I sit up at night andthe videos of where I could have

(29:12):
made a decision that was betterfor me play in my mind.
And it's just, it's like, it'smotivation to do better today,
because I can use this one oftwo ways.
There's always two ways you cando this.
I could use it and I could feelregret and I can feel the grief
and I can create my ownsuffering.
I am fucking good at that.

(29:33):
I know how to do that.
I know how to create my ownsuffering.
How can I create the, because Ihave all the power and all of
the control to create theopposite in my own mind as much
as I do with my own suffering.
What perspective do I want togive it?
Julie will always give me crap.

(29:53):
"You're like..
.
You're always the freakingoptimist, always.
I refuse to see the world in alight that is to dampen good
energy, because we need it, weneed it, we need to share it, we
need to be a part of it.
You need to glow one way oranother.
I'll walk around and if someonesays you're glowing, absolutely

(30:14):
, I love it.
I know what a negative impactlooks like.
I know what one does.
I lived being a negative impact.

Kellie (30:23):
I'm going to share another quote of yours, and I'll
preface this by saying I lovethat you were willing to spend
so much time in silence.
Recently we spoke with a verygood friend of ours on the
podcast, Dr Matthew Arrau, whois in music leadership.
And we talked about that musicis created on a canvas of

(30:48):
silence.
And our lives are melodies andharmonies, and sometimes we hit
sharp notes and flat notes, andwe, you know, miss the key.
And all of it comes together injust such a beautiful way, and
our lives wind up being thisvery beautiful piece of creative

(31:09):
artwork of music as it unfolds.
And so I think that, as wecontinue to talk about the
concept of mental health andmental awareness and emotional
awareness and emotionalintelligence, especially in a
very distracted, very busy, veryloud world where it's easy to

(31:31):
be and stay disconnected, thecourage to be in the silence -
which is why nature and time innature is so powerful and we've
been talking a lot about thattoday and in a lot of our
episodes - is so powerful.
But you said this, "I don't knowwhere this path will lead me,

(31:52):
where I'll go.
I just know that I need to behonest, authentic and kind.
I know what wasted time looksand feels like.
I know what my personaldarkness is.
I never want to meet that managain and I also want to make
him proud of who he will become.
Yep, as you were talking,that's what I heard.

Steve Knapp (32:17):
Yep.
When we were texting, justbefore we came on, you mentioned
"journey and I think, in someways, journey and adventure are
two terms that we can flip andflop.
It's been an adventure and it'sbeen a journey, and every
mountain I seem to climb,there's always another one.

(32:37):
There's days where I wake upand I feel like I can move those
things.
Another one there's days whereI wake up and I feel like I can
move those things.
And there's days where I wake upand I go just give me another
one to climb and either one Iget to overcome whatever that
mountain is, whether I move itor I climb it.
I used to be afraid of themountain.

(33:04):
Really early on in my sobrietyI decided that me and fear were
going to have a differentrelationship and instead of it
being something that controlledme, I was going to walk
alongside it.
We were going to be friends.
We're still friends today.
But now I simplify it.
I have words for it today.
I didn't before.
I ask myself, like it's very,very often today where I'll feel

(33:26):
a feeling and I can feel myselfretreat, "Okay, you're afraid
of that.
Is it good for you?
Yes, Then why aren't you?
"You can.
", and I always look at the why.
There's always the why, becausethe curiosity is there.

(33:49):
What belief system do I havethat creates the fear of the
thing I know is good for meBecause it's a belief, it's an
agreement I have with myselfthat I just haven't explored yet
.
So it's time to explore andthen go and rewrite the damn
thing.
I am absolutely terrified ofpublic speaking, so I took a
speech class last semester forthe sole purpose to discover
what the heck was going on there.

(34:11):
First of all, I had to write.
Then then I had to stand infront of people.
My fear of judgment?
Whoo geez.
Yeah, I didn't, I didn't knowit was that bad.
Like you, you think, man,"You've recorded a hundred
podcasts.
How is this difficult for you?
You know what I mean.
You speak up about yourrecovery, you're not afraid to
be vulnerable, yet you stand upin front of a whole bunch of

(34:33):
people and it's vulnerable ashell.
So I was like, okay, it's timeto rewrite this one.
Start doing the thing thatscares you because you know,
know it's good for you.
I just hate it when fear tellsme not to do something that I
know is going to either havebenefit for me or impact for
someone else Drives me freakingbonkers.

(34:54):
It's like get out of your owndamn way.

Erin (34:56):
Thank you.

(35:38):
I was just going to say, I hadsuch an interesting thought and
picture that popped into my headwhen you were talking about the
mountains.
In my mind I was thinking abouthow, even when we're among the
mountains, in between climbs,you are in a valley of some kind

(35:58):
.
And then when you made thatstatement of "I was afraid of
the mountains, I was afraid ofthat climb and I very
introspectively asked myselfthis question.
But I would like to ask you aswell, because I've experienced
so many of the same things Ithink we all have.
I think every person alive andcertainly anybody listening to

(36:22):
this podcast.
This will resonate right.
They can relate to being fearfulof what's ahead and being
fearful of that climb.
It's going to be hard, like"that looks really hard.
You know, Kellie and I wereboth born and raised in Colorado
and now you live there, and youknow, surrounded by these
beautiful Rocky mountains and14ers, and you know, and so it's
easy, mountains and 14ers, andyou know, and so it's easy to

(36:43):
look at those ahead of you andsay, well, that's gonna be
difficult.
But I asked myself the questionand I want to ask you the
question of are there momentswhere you then face that and
have fear of what is ahead and afear of climbing that mountain.
But are we more afraid ofstaying in that valley if we

(37:05):
don't climb?

Steve Knapp (37:06):
Here's what I've found.
When I'm in the valley staringat the mountain, I'm in my
comfort zone.
That's the comfort zone Icreated after the last mountain
that I climbed.
And when I sit in that for toolong, I stare at the peak of the
next mountain, and discomfortis created for me.

(37:28):
When I'm in the valley ofcomfort, staring at that peak,
knowing that I'm walking thatthing one way or another, how
long do I avoid it before facingit?
And let's talk about themountain of me quitting my job
of 19 and a half years, becausethis is what comes up for me,
because this one was one ofthose where I sat in the valley

(37:52):
of comfort because it meantchange.
And every time you climb themountain it means change.
That's what the mountain is,regardless of what it is.
The mountain is change.
And the fear is what's going tohappen to me when I get there.
What's going to happen to myrelationships when I start
climbing that thing?
How am I going to change?

(38:13):
Because it's going to change me.
And if I change, that's goingto change the relationships
around me and are these peoplegoing to grow with me?
And if you have an anxiousattachment style like I had,
then you're going to be evenmore fearful of any sort of
change, because your change isgoing to create discomfort in

(38:34):
your relationships.
That was me to a T.
If I stayed stagnant, then Ikept others comfortable.
If I stayed stagnant, then Ikept others comfortable and I
didn't have to face the changeand dealing with the conflict
that was going to arise throughchange, because that's what it
creates.
So when I left my job of 19 anda half years, there was a book,

(39:00):
a recovery book written by alady named Erica Spiegelman,
called Rewired, and Julie wentthrough that book with a fine
tooth comb and I kind offollowed along the journey
through that book, but I nevertook that one as seriously as
she did.
One of the topics in that bookwas called "evolution.
That's the one I avoided.
I avoided that one like theplague, because as soon as
evolution come up, that meant Ihad to face whether I was going

(39:21):
to continue my job or not.
When we talk about beingcomfortable in the valley, I
would have to face that aboutevery four months.
Emotions pass.
.
.
feelings pass.
They all do.
So, today I could be reallyupset about the fact that I need
to make a change about theposition in my job, and I really
need to do something differentabout this.

(39:43):
But if I wait that out for aweek, it dissipates.
Right, it's a problem now, butit'll dissipate.
That feeling will dissipate.
You'll start paying attentionto the rest of the other things
in your life that keep you busy,but it sits in your emotional
backpack because it was nevertaken care of.
So, every four months I hadbasically a scheduled three-day

(40:04):
breakdown for about a year and ahalf until I finally said I'm
not doing this anymore.
So I started climbing themountain.
So it's kind of the valley ofcomfort.
It's the new comfort zone thatI create for myself after I
climb the next mountain.
And in recovery and just likethe rest of us in our lives,
there are like certain pillarsright, we have connection with
friends and stuff like that.

(40:25):
And as long as you haveconnection with friends and
connection with people, failureis so much easier to deal with.
You have a place to land, youhave a place to fall.
You've created a sense ofsafety somewhere.
Right?
I had my recovery community.
This is why I'm into men'smental health right now.
I had somewhere to go.

(40:46):
When you're addicted tosomething, there are services
for you all over the place.
Pick one.
It's out there if you'rewilling to go and find them and
if you're willing to go and dothe work.
They're all over the place.
But what if you're just a dudewho's lost and stuck?
I look at myself.
I'm like, what would31-year-old Steve have done if
he wanted help?
Tell me what comes to the topof your mind when you look at

(41:10):
what's out there for support formen that want to better
themselves right now?

Erin (41:14):
I can't think of anything.
.
.

Steve Knapp (41:16):
Right.

Kellie (41:17):
It's really a taboo topic.

Steve Knapp (41:19):
100%.

Kellie (41:20):
And we were both born and raised farm kids, and what
immediately comes to my mind is.
"stop crying.

Steve Knapp (41:28):
Yeah.

Kellie (41:29):
And I know we were girls and the message was "stop
crying.
The boys, our cousins, I mean,they got that message even
stronger and harder and fasterthan we did.

Steve Knapp (41:41):
Men and women are wired differently.
We just are, and I think wehave - rant, Steve time - we
have this thing in society whereequality is also the same.
And what a great way to createmore disconnection, right, than

(42:08):
just accepting that women have anatural ability to be better at
certain things and men have anatural ability to be better at
certain things.
Statistics show that.
Let's not just ignore those,because we're doing fantastic
right now at just ignoring thatand creating a greater
disconnection between men andwomen.
Like, if you talk to people inmy age group right now that are

(42:28):
out there dating, they're likeit is a mess.

Kellie (42:32):
Yeah, not a fun world.
In that regard, there's so muchdisconnect, and the gender
roles are changing, and theexpectations, and the
obligations, and you name it.
I mean that is not a world Iwould want to be in right now.
It is a mess.

Steve Knapp (42:51):
It's a bowl of soup that no one has a name for
because the ingredients don'tmake anything worth eating.

Erin (42:59):
Well, it's interesting.
Like tying back to what we weretalking about in the very, very
beginning, which was thesedevices, right?
We're supposed to be soconnected, right?
And you look at social mediaand there is not a more
polarizing platform than socialmedia.
So it's meant to connect us andinstead it has completely

(43:23):
divided everybody - on everytopic - when it was just
pictures of what you were eatingfor dinner and your pets.
.
.
cute cat photos.
But to what you were saying,like, especially as podcasters

(43:45):
and self- marketers, we have tobe on there.

Kellie (43:48):
That's where you are trying to create connection.

Erin (43:53):
Yeah, right, and like just to have a voice.
You know, we need a place forour voices to be heard and
that's a tough place to want tospend any amount of time.
It is so polarizing and we livein a wild world.

Steve Knapp (44:11):
It's a double-edged sword.
It's wild.

Kellie (44:15):
And I think it circles back to Steve, to what you were
talking about just a little bitago, which is this concept of
completely having to redefineyour relationships.
Not only did you have to dothat in your sobriety and
everything that you've talkedabout, but we're redefining it
through technology as well.
Again, it's a bowl of soup.

(44:37):
It's all a mess.

Steve Knapp (44:39):
You mentioned sobriety there and for the first
two, two and a half years of mysobriety, like that sucker was
my identity.

Kellie (44:49):
My sobriety was "I'm sober, Steve is sober.

Steve Knapp (44:56):
And people that know me would have said that too
, because I was.
And it wasn't until they reallystarted bringing that up to me
in conversation.
Not that it was a bad thing,but like if I was going to have
a conversation with you and Iwas about two years sober, you
would have known that I wassober within the first five
minutes of that conversation,somehow, because my life was so

(45:17):
related and revolved around itso much.
I'm growing out of that phasearound it, so much I'm growing
out of that phase.
How do I introduce Stevewithout sobriety being the main
part of my identity?
The question I ask, one of thethings that I ask now and I'm
horrible at answering this stillmyself, is when we introduce

(45:38):
ourselves to each other, we tryand share who we are right, and
we always start out with the"what.
We start out with what we do,what we're passionate about or
whatever.
We never get to the actual who.
It's all of the surface stuffthat surround you that you share
about who you are and it's not.

(45:59):
Those are things you do, thoseare things you bring to the
table.
Those are your what's.
What are your who's?
What heart do you bring to thetable?
What's the passion, what drivesyou, what's the thing that's
important to you?
Tell me about that, and I stillhave a hard time putting words
to my own stuff.
But that's the who.
That's the person I want tomeet.

(46:20):
That's the person I want to getto know.
I'll share a great hike withyou, but I want to know your who
.

Kellie (46:27):
So how would you answer that question today, Steve?

Steve Knapp (46:31):
I just did this with some guys and I was
horrible.
Who is Steve today?
He's passionate about figuringout how to connect other people
with other people.
He's willing to listen.
And I think he just wants tosee people better themselves.
And there's something in therethat always drives me to do this

(46:51):
and get over whatever the heckit is.
But it also drives me to learnmore about what makes me tick,
and try new things, and I don'tknow get over failure.
Like trying new things andfailure go hand in hand.

Kellie (47:06):
Oh yeah, failing forward .
Right, we've all heard it,we've all had to do it.
What I hear in all of that isnot only the redefining of your
relationships, then, theredefining of the relationships
in the world, with work, withyour children, but also with
yourself, and we're allredefining those relationships

(47:29):
with ourselves.
So, what a beautiful questionto ask.
Who would I introduce myself?
It takes me back to a couple ofdecades ago.
I was working with a mentor atthe time who challenged me to
write my own personal missionstatement.
Erin, you probably rememberthat.
I do remember that, yeah, andthat remains consistent today.

(47:54):
But I think that that's a goodexercise as we grow as humans,
as we evolve through life - ourexperiences, our choices, our
relationships.
But redefining who we are andstaying true to what is my
personal mission statement whoam I?

Erin (48:15):
Gosh, it's such a beautiful shift in perspective.
And so, Steve, what you weresaying, yeah, when you introduce
yourself, so often the firstthing that you share is what you
do, right, typically for a job.
Yeah, and like having thisconversation and actually really
thinking through that andprocessing that,

(48:36):
there's so much that I offer andbring to the table in that
position.
I want those things to defineme, but I would take those

(48:57):
traits into any job, right?
Or whatever I'm doing or howI'm living my life.
What if we could really flipthe script on how we introduce
ourselves to people?
I love that.

Steve Knapp (49:10):
That's the who, right?
That's where one heart meets,gets to meet another.
That's where we begin to sharethe parts of life that matter.
Just because I'm an accountingintern, it means nothing other
than the fact that if you mighthave financial problems, you
could use me for help.
But none of that defines thewho.

(49:30):
Anytime anyone asks me thatquestion, you get a different
iteration, because it's a veryintrospective question, right?
It's the only person you get tolook at in the mirror is you,
and now you have to share thatwith someone.
So it's super vulnerable rightright now.
What if I get that wrong, likea lot of us?
You can imagine that, like thelaundry list of things that go
through your head before youeven start spitting out the, the

(49:52):
stuff that matters.
Like now I feel like I need todo my values again and because I
I think that's where thatanswer comes from you know my
top five value sets.
Then the words come from that.
I think that's probably wherethat comes from.
I'm just thinking off the cuffnow.

Kellie (50:09):
Talking out loud.

Steve Knapp (50:10):
Yeah.

Kellie (50:11):
And as you're talking out loud, as we're all talking
about this, what's so right inmy face is that this is what we
talk about on this podcast.
This is legacy, this is yourliving legacy.
It's not what we're leavingbehind, although hopefully, our
value sets and these beautifulaspects of who we are as human
beings will be remembered, butit's what we're choosing to do

(50:36):
in the moments that we havewhile we are here and the impact
that we're creating in ourrelationships with the people
that we connect with, in theconversations that we're having,
in the fear that we'reabolishing and the love that
we're creating.
We abolish the fear.
We make space for love, andthat really is at the heart of

(50:58):
all of life.

Steve Knapp (51:00):
Absolutely, absolutely.

Erin (51:02):
That even takes me back to that breaking point for you of
- and you touched on it at theabsolutely beginning - you chose
truth in that moment.

Steve Knapp (51:11):
To do the scary thing.

Erin (51:25):
You chose to do the scary thing and it changed everything.

Steve Knapp (51:30):
That one decision changed everything.
The fear of changingrelationships, my relationships.
Even though I'm 1600 miles awayfrom my kids, I had them this
past month.
I had them for all of July.
And my relationship with mykids is better, way better.
I can show up for them in anemotionally healthy way and have

(51:52):
a conversation with them anddeal with, "what are you afraid
of?
And deal with like literallysit in it.
Even if it's a complaint aboutme, I can listen.
I'm not going to take itpersonally, even if it might
sting.
It's not about me.
I can separate the me from thethem and I can put myself in
those shoes and I can beempathetic.

(52:14):
And I don't have to shut themdown and I don't have to tell
them how to feel.
Instead, I can just let itexist and say, "what are we
going to do about it?
How are we going to do thistogether?
I'm willing to apologize.
There's so much growth in that.
It's ridiculous when I hear itcome out of my mouth, but when

(52:35):
you talk about that, the thingthat keeps coming up, Kellie,
you mentioned earlier emotionalintelligence and today, if it
wasn't for reading for me it'sthe Encyclopedia of Emotion is
Atlas of the Heart by BreneBrown.
It's my absolute favorite book.
That book changed my lifebecause I now had words for the

(52:56):
way that I felt.
And now I got to practice usingthe right words, because it
blew my mind when I heard, if Iuse the wrong word for the
emotion that I'm feeling, I'mgoing to feel my emotion wrong.

Kellie (53:09):
Creates confusion.

Steve Knapp (53:11):
Correct.
And she has it so well writtenout in that book - 87 emotions
that we all feel.
Two-thirds of those arenegative, yet we call them "bad.
We shouldn't feel them.
Yeah, we call them bad, weshouldn't feel them.
One of the things that Ilearned after I quit.
Because when you experience joy, like real joy, for the very
first time after you quit,you're like raw dog in life in a

(53:37):
really emotional way, becauseeverything's new, nothing's
numbed, you can't run from itanymore.
So you think about a childwhere you take them to the store
and they want that thing andyou say no and they have a
complete fit.
I've done that inside so manytimes, had a complete fit over

(53:58):
something that did not reallyneed such a great emotional
reaction to.
But all I'm trying to do isvalidate how I feel Because I've
invalidated my own emotions foran extremely long period of
time that when they show up theybig.
Even though they small, they'rebig.

Kellie (54:18):
And it's habit.
Yeah, it's just the habit.
The habitual reaction.

(55:14):
Not a conscious response.

Steve Knapp (55:15):
T here were times where I felt like I was a
five-year-old and you stole mysucker.
Like, literal internalconniption fit.
And there were times where Ifelt like a teenager all over
again, just trying to figurethings out.
And I'm literally at the pointnow where I feel like I'm
finally becoming the man I canrespect.

Kellie (55:31):
Can we use that, Steve, as a stepping stone into your
work with men and men's mentalhealth today, because I think

what you said was so profound: there were times when I felt (55:40):
undefined
like the five-year-old whosesucker got stolen and I was
having an emotional conniptionfit inside.
We've all felt that.
Men, women.
It doesn't matter who it is.
We've all felt that.
I think, especially for men,the question is: what do I do

(56:01):
with that internal emotionalfeeling that I'm having?

Steve Knapp (56:05):
Most of the time in men the internal conniption fit
that doesn't get shown walksaround with anger.
That's where we go off to.
We shut down, get angry, thenyou never get the full story.
If you grow up getting shutdown from not even just your
emotions, just having - and Ithink everyone probably relate

(56:27):
to this - you ever told someonea story you wanted to get
something off your chest and youknew it was vulnerable and it
got used as a weapon?
You said something, you neededto get it off your chest and it
was used as a weapon.
Then you got teased about itlater on and it was something
along those lines, or it keptgetting brought back up again.
What do you want to do the nexttime?

(56:49):
You don't want to share it.

Erin (56:52):
Not that.

Steve Knapp (56:52):
Because you don't want it to be used as a weapon.
So when that happens over andover and over again, you just
shut up.
That's where a lot of peopleare at in general right now.
And these bursts ofdisconnection that we see
everywhere are the fact thatthere's a bunch of damaged goods
and we're all responsible torepair ourselves.
And as soon as we start takingresponsibility to repair

(57:15):
ourselves, we start becoming areally nice package for someone
else to share with.
And so, what do you do withthat?
The only way I was ever able tobreak through with that - and
we're going to roll right backto connection - if I don't trust
sharing my stuff with anyone,I'm never going to get over the.
.
.
or I'm never going to receivethe validation for.

(57:37):
.
.
the conniption fit that I washaving.
And mind you, you still need tohave a growth mindset, because
if you sit in this in a victimmindset, you're just going to do
it over and over again, becausethe pity and the sympathy is
what you're after as opposed todealing with it.
So, I don't have to feel it thisway again if I give it a
perspective in which I can livewith.
And so the thought with Forgedin Silence is, if we can create

(58:01):
a space to give other men spaceto share what it is that's on
their mind, so other men can seeit too, then maybe we can
inspire another guy to find thecourage to say what he needs to
say because he's tired of livingin the valley that he created
of comfort that is now just avalley of discontent.

(58:21):
Climbing a mountain by yourselfis a valiant thing to do.
Climbing a mountain with otherpeople?
You can share the view.
.
.
and you still climb themountain.
But the smile you get when yousee the view partway up because
you turned a corner and you gotthat little milestone in your
life and you turn around andthere's another smile that goes,

(58:42):
fuck yeah, nice work.
The smile, the reflection thatwe get from other people in
times of sadness and in times ofjoy, happiness and awe and
wonder.
We need people so we can seethe reflection of ourselves in a
mirror through someone else.
That's how we end up feelingreally freaking good about

(59:07):
ourselves.
We can build ourselves up allwe want, but if it's not shared,
it's goddamn lonely.

Kellie (59:15):
That's really beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I was thinking too about thejourney or the adventure
climbing the mountain withothers versus being solo.
The camaraderie, thecompanionship, the problem
solving, the overcomingobstacles, the safety in numbers
, the security of thatconnection.

Steve Knapp (59:38):
Yeah.

Kellie (59:38):
We start together, we end together.
That takes a lot of trust,right.
Absolutely.
Picking the right people, beingemotionally intelligent and
aware enough to know who you canand want to take on that
journey with you.

Steve Knapp (59:55):
And I mean, if we don't allow ourselves to make
mistakes, to bring those peoplealong with us, then we're not
going to find the right oneseither.
Because I mean, there is a lotof people.
I had my own bout withpermanence and impermanence,
because when you think aboutpermanence, that's me like
"everything's going to be thisway forever and I get to create

(01:00:18):
a really good sense of comfortwhen I do that.
And when I think aboutimpermanence, then I allow
seasons to exist in my lifewhere someone can come and go
and we can share pieces of ourlives and then move on if that's
the way things take us.
And in my recovery I have shareda lot with a lot of people that
are no longer people that Icontinue to share with.

(01:00:42):
Not even that we've haddisagreements, but we've just
grown apart.
We've gone different ways.
Right, when you're in search ofyour own value set and somebody
else is in search of theirs,you're going to find what aligns
and you're going to find whatdoesn't.
That doesn't mean you stillcan't be friends.
Two different things areallowed to exist in the same
room all at the same time.

(01:01:03):
If I'm willing to allow mycuriosity to be a part of the
conversation.

Kellie (01:01:08):
I think that you just touched on something that's
really critically important, andthat is that as relationships
are redefined, it's okay if therelationship does not continue
forward as it existed before.

Steve Knapp (01:01:25):
Correct.

Kellie (01:01:26):
That once it was defined that way doesn't mean it has to
always be defined that way.
That redefining is sometimessaying "we're going to remain
friends, we're going to carrymutual respect, love, admiration
, appreciation, respect,whatever it is in our hearts,

(01:01:46):
but it's okay for thatrelationship to change or for
that person to no longer be apart of your life.
If seasons of life have changed, value systems have changed,
it's okay and that doesn't haveto work against our mental
health.
That can actually work for ourmental health and our emotional
health.

Steve Knapp (01:02:07):
When one door closes, another one opens.
It never happens right away,there's always a lag.
When I moved here, one of thevery first things that I decided
to do was just show up and tryand see what happens.
But show up and try.
Be there.
Be present.
Put effort in.

(01:02:28):
See what happens.
Man, has that ever changed mylife! That opportunity alone.
Like you wouldn't believe.
I thought I had an internshipthis past December and I never
bothered putting any effort intofinding another one because why
would you?
Two weeks before the end of thesemester, that went away.
They couldn't take me onanymore.
They lost a couple of employeesand didn't have the time for me

(01:02:50):
.
What did I go back to?
Show up and try.
Just keep showing up, just keeptrying.
That was the middle of May.
Middle of June?
I landed in a better spot thanI had before.

Kellie (01:03:02):
Victory.

Steve Knapp (01:03:04):
And that was just it.
I'll just keep doing this.
And I listened to a podcastwith a guy named Sahil Bloom and
it was Rich Roll talking to himand I saw a post of his and it
was like your luck quotient, ifyou're sitting at home on your
couch, your luck quotient isgarbage, right?
But if you're getting out andyou're doing things and you're

(01:03:25):
talking to people and you'reconnecting and you're putting
effort in, your luck quotientmultiplies, right?
What happened to me there wasthat was all luck quotient.
The job that showed up hadnothing to do with where I was
looking, but it had everythingto do with the effort that I put
in.
It's wild.
It's absolutely wild when Ilook at it and like, and I take

(01:03:48):
a one giant step back.
And when I was at the firm, Ifinally met my boss's wife and
she said, "you're Canadian, whywould?
What are you doing here inWestern Colorado?
You know what I mean.
Like, everyone asks me thatquestion and sometimes I go in
depth if I keep getting askedand sometimes I don't, and if
you want to get into that onereal quick, every time I came to

(01:04:10):
visit here, like I loved it,absolutely loved it, and every
time I left, I felt like I wasleaving home every time I left
and every time I left.
And every time I left it gotharder and harder.
So I packed up my stuff becauseI applied to jobs and jobs and
jobs and jobs at the beginningof last year.
And I almost had one and thatone fell through because of

(01:04:33):
immigration stuff.
They didn't want to bet on me.
Fair, that's fine.
If you're not going to investin me, screw it.
I'm going to go and do itmyself.
Stubborn.
So I packed up my stuff, renteda room here, and decided I was
going to move here.
Gave myself three months tofigure out how to stay - legally
.
I only had the stuff that couldfit in my truck.

(01:04:54):
That was it.
Four days later, I went to CMU.
Six days later, I got thisemail saying, "congratulations,
we've accepted you plus ascholarship.
Sometimes the universe slapsyou in the face with an
opportunity that you cannot justoverlook, and that one.

(01:05:15):
I always sleep on things Bigdecisions.
There's the giant emotionalreaction that shows up
excitement, all the rest of thisstuff.
Sleep on it.
It wake up tomorrow morning.
Where does my heart lie?
Where does my gut sit?
I couldn't ignore that, so Iaccepted.
I had three months to figureout how to stay, and it took me

(01:05:36):
six days, and I've met reallyincredible people.
The people on this side of theslope have been nothing but kind
.
I've been greeted fantastically.
I honestly love it here.
This place feels like home, sowhy not start making it one?
So I'm here.

(01:05:58):
The podcast was started becauseI needed to create a project for
the entrepreneurship class thatI took, and I was supposed to
start a small business, but Icouldn't do that because I
hadn't been here long enough todo it legally on my visa.
So I sent Robbie a text messageand I said "hey, do you want to
start a podcast?
I need to create something forthis course.

(01:06:18):
And he was like yes, absolutely.
He was thinking about ithimself earlier that week and so
we sat down that weekend, cameup with a name and, in straight
up Steve fashion, if he wants todo something, he's going to
start it and it's going to beugly when it starts and he's
just going to figure it outalong the way, Because if I

(01:06:38):
don't start, that means I wasafraid of something.
And if I'm afraid of somethingand I know it's good for me,
guess what I'm going to do?
I'm just going to go and do it!So, like the friends that are
really close to me know that ifSteve says he's afraid of
something, they're like"whatever, just wait, it will
get done, he will do it andthey're not wrong.
So I did it.

(01:06:59):
Within a week we had a podcaststarted and started finding
guests and started figuring outwhat was important to us, how we
wanted it to look, what it wasgoing to be all about.
Both of us are in recovery.
I've known Robbie and I've metRobbie and I've hung out with
Robbie the dude's my best friendand we kind of figured out what
our mission is.
We just finished talking aboutthis and for me it's impact.

(01:07:21):
If we just focus on one thing,for this podcast is impact, and
let's just see where it takes us.

Kellie (01:07:30):
So tell us a little bit more about the podcast, because
we'd love to support you in thatprocess, especially as you
bring more attention and greaterawareness to men's mental
health, as you're making animpact.

Steve Knapp (01:07:47):
Forged in Silence.
The tagline for that isaddressing issues men face that
rarely talk about.
It's all about giving men spaceto say the things that they
need to say, whether it'sloneliness or it's.
I've got a guy that hasovercome a porn addiction and I
think that's a huge, huge topicthat we need to cover.
If we look at just thestatistics alone between ages,

(01:08:11):
this one blew my mind, and ifyou guys haven't heard this one,
it's gonna blow yours.
The age group that has thehighest percentage rate of
erectile dysfunction is 20 to 30.

Kellie (01:08:29):
I heard that and it shocked me, because my son and
my nephews are all in that agegroup.

Erin (01:08:33):
Wow.

Kellie (01:08:33):
And I have girls in that age group.
I mean it's incredible.

Steve Knapp (01:08:39):
When I heard that statistic, I was like, wow, this
is how disconnected we are.
This is the level ofdisconnection we're finding.
We're young men, porn.
We're getting so used to justbeing with ourselves that when
we get the real thing, we don'tknow what to do with it.
That statistic is wild to me.
That seems, yeah, it'sabsolutely shocking.

(01:08:59):
So there's things like thatthat are shocking, that I would
like to, and I'm still workingon shedding light on those
things and addiction is going tobe a part of the conversation,
because that's also a ridiculousnumber.
It's like three in 10 people orsomething like that.
We all know someone.
We all know someone right,that's alcohol, drugs, sex,

(01:09:22):
gambling, work, shopping, worklike eating.

The Sisters (01:09:25):
It's all there, yeah.

Steve Knapp (01:09:27):
Eating.
It's all there.
So I mean like we'll touch onthat.
But there's more like themental, emotional part and being
available, both of us beingavailable as men that are
working on ourselves to givespace to another man to share
the things that he needs toshare, to get off his chest.
Give me a topic that'simportant to you right now and

(01:09:49):
let's have a conversation aboutthat.
And if we squirrel, then cool,let's squirrel, let's go down
whatever rabbit hole that we endup going down.
But that's what we're all about.
We're really all about doingthat and, very slowly, we are
hearing from men.
They're reaching out to myselfor Robbie or somebody who's been

(01:10:09):
a guest on the podcast, becausethey've related to something
that they've shared so closelythat they found the courage to
say me too.
I got a message from a guy theother day.
I got to thank you, we got tothank you.
He's just a younger kid.
I got to thank you, we got tothank you.
He's just a younger kid and hegoes, "because of your podcast.
I've put more effort into therelationship with my father and

(01:10:36):
it's gotten so much better,thank you.
Like the side impacts, thestuff that happens when we're
not watching because we're doingthe right thing is so
incredible.

Erin (01:10:42):
It's really beautiful and something that Kellie and I say
all the time, talk about it allthe time.

It's kind of our tagline is: hearing the stories of others (01:10:48):
undefined
helps us create a moremeaningful connection to our own
.

Steve Knapp (01:10:56):
100%.

Erin (01:10:58):
And everything that you just described echoes that.
It's exactly why we are doingwhat we're doing.
There is power in that and areminder that we are not alone.

Steve Knapp (01:11:10):
100%

Kellie (01:11:12):
And Steve, you said to me just before we started this
conversation, talking about ourstuff is so good for us,
including the people that get tobe witness to it.
So I hope that today'sconversation got to be witness
to people, that it inspired themto connect to their emotions,

(01:11:32):
to redefine their relationships,even the ones that they have
with themselves, and to reallyfeel like they have the space to
be authentic and vulnerableenough to be comfortable in
their own skin, because we areall amazing, genius human beings

(01:11:54):
here to create somethingamazing to give to the world,
because the world gives us somuch every single day.
And so, thank you, this was anabsolutely incredible
conversation, and I have had somuch fun with you today.
And I know Erin has a keyquestion for us as we kind of
wrap up, and we want to hearsome closing thoughts from you

(01:12:16):
as well.

Steve Knapp (01:12:17):
Fire away.

The Sisters (01:12:19):
We ask all of our guests what is your P-I-G?
Our P-I-G is purpose, intentionand gratitude.
It is our driving force behindeverything that we do on and off
of this podcast.
That is our P-I-G, and so I'mreally interested to know if you

(01:12:40):
have your own P-I-G - and Iwill nudge a little bit, because
I actually wrote it down whenyou were talking about impact.
I'm like, well, that's anamazing word! But if you have
your own P-I-G, I would love foryou to share it.
Or, when you hear purpose,intention and gratitude, is

(01:13:01):
there a word that resonatesdeeply with you, and why so?
I would just love for you toshare whatever's on your heart
in terms of that.

Steve Knapp (01:13:10):
So what I did was I took purpose, intention and
gratitude and I didn't just takea word, I used purpose and I
was like, okay, the purpose isconnection right, it is, and
there's so many layers to thatconnection, but that is the
purpose and I think that's beenthe purpose.
Is connection right, it is, andthere's so many layers to that
connection, but that is thepurpose and I think that's been
the purpose for a really longtime, without ever really
putting words to it, whetherit's using the platform of

(01:13:34):
Through the Glass Recoverypodcast as a form of that, or
learning how to be vulnerableand also learning how to give
space to other people in a waywhere they'll benefit from it.
The mission, the intention younailed it and that's the impact.
That, I think, is theinspiration behind all of it is,

(01:13:55):
you know, someone finds theirnugget of truth.
I wrote this down.
Someone finds their nugget oftruth and finds the courage to
take action and make a change intheir life is inspiring as hell
.
And even if it's something small, when you watch someone sit in
a circle and go through theircycle of everything and then
they say not today and they dosomething to change, I don't

(01:14:19):
care if I'm involved in it ornot, but that's impact.
That's exactly what that is.
And then for gratitude.
I'm grateful for the people inmy life that have bet on me when
I couldn't, and they still dothat today, now when I bet on
myself.
I wouldn't be in this house ifit wasn't for a stranger that

(01:14:42):
believed in me.
I wouldn't be at this job.
If it wasn't for a strangerthat believed in me, I wouldn't
be at this job.
If it wasn't for a strangerthat believed in me.
I wouldn't be here if it wasn'tfor a stranger that believed in
me.

Kellie (01:14:51):
Beautiful Thank you.
We all need people to believein us, and I can't help but have
a little flutter in my heartbecause not that long ago we
were strangers.
And yet, here we all sit.
We had this amazingconversation, we've connected on
a very deep and wonderful andpurposeful level, and I know

(01:15:14):
that these relationships willcontinue to carry forward as we
support one another and weencourage one another.
We share space in communitytogether.
And, Steve, I have to say frommy native Grand Junction heart,
and I know Erin shares thissentiment, how cool that you

(01:15:35):
have found this place as home.
Welcome home.

Steve Knapp (01:15:39):
Thank you.

The Sisters (01:15:40):
We're glad to have you here.

Steve Knapp (01:15:41):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for letting me joinyou on your show, Kellie and
Erin.
It's an honor, it really is.

The Sisters (01:15:50):
Well, we look forward to having you back.
We'll do it again.

Steve Knapp (01:15:53):
Sounds like a plan.

Erin (01:15:54):
Yes, please!

The Sisters (01:16:16):
Hearing the stories of others helps us create a
more meaningful connection toour own.
We hope today's conversationoffered you insight,
encouragement or even just amoment to pause and reflect on
the story you're living and thelegacy you're creating.
If something in this episodemoved you, please consider
sharing it with someone you love.
A small share can make a bigimpact.

(01:16:37):
You can also join us onInstagram, facebook or LinkedIn
and connect further atthepigpodcastcom and if you're
enjoying this podcast, one ofthe most meaningful ways you can
support us is by leaving afive-star rating, writing a
short review or simply lettingus know your thoughts.
Your feedback helps us reachothers and reminds us why we do

(01:16:59):
this work, because The P-I-Gisn't just a podcast.
It's a place to remember that,even in the midst of grief, life
goes on, resilience matters andlove never leaves.
Thanks for being on thisjourney with us.
Until next time.
Hogs and kisses everyone.