PJs and Pokey: Reflections, Perspective & Our Sisterhood

Episode Transcript
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Kellie (00:10):
Welcome back to the PIG.
I'm Kellie.

Erin (00:13):
And I'm Erin.
Today, we're bringing yousomething new: our first of many
"PJs and Pokey episodes.
What in the world, you ask?
Well, even though you can't seeus, we're cozied up in our PJs
with an overflowing bowl ofpokey, what our mom called
popcorn when we were growing up.

Kellie (00:32):
These special sister chats are where we're going to
let loose a little bit, talkabout what's on our minds, share
thoughts about pastconversations, dive into what
we've learned along the way,recap listener feedback, explore
future topics and so much more.

Erin (00:49):
And wow, we already have a lot to unpack.
Today, in addition to somerelaxed, fun and raw
conversation, we'll berevisiting key moments from our
first four episodes, talkingabout what this journey has
meant to us personally and, ofcourse, sharing highlights from
our incredible time at South bySouthwest in Austin, Texas.

Kellie (01:10):
So, if you're no t in the the car, out for a hike or
listening on the go, hit pause,get comfy and grab your very
favorite beverage.
Welcome to PJ's and Pokey onThe P-I-G!

Kellie & Erin (01:48):
Okay, Erin, knowing you as well as I do, and
in honor of our many P-I and Gwords, I sure hope you're
sipping on a pina colada or apineapple mojito right now.
I should have made a pineapplemojito or a pina colada.
That would have been absolutelyperfect.
P is for perfect.
That would have been absolutelyperfect.
P is for perfect.
Yes, P is for perfection,something that I am so trying to

(02:10):
let go of as we dive into allof these incredible episodes on
the PIG.
But seriously, can you believewe've already recorded and
released our first four episodes?
It seems like just yesterday wewere exploring this possibility
as the boxes story reallystarted to unfold, and wondering
how in the world and going toget started.
Yes, we had a way.

(02:50):
A nd conversations about whatthis was going to look like, and
it shouldn't surprise either ofus that it really hasn't looked
like what we thought it wasgoing to look like.
No, it hasn't looked like.
And we it was .
Yes, no, it hasn't looked like.
We're going to talk about thattoday.
You know some of the lessonsthat we've learned along the way
, and I want to apologize inadvance to our listeners if
they hear us crunching in theirear, because I ! (Kellie) A nd
to tell you that I can't stopeating this popcorn.
It's so good.
Oh my goodness, I'm sorry.
This pokey, this pokey, it'sdelicious.
We are eating different popcorn, we are in different parts of
the United States but enjoyingit together.

(03:11):
And yes, I'll try not to crunchIn our listeners ears.
o(Erin) Ha, ha.

(03:46):
(Kellie)(Erin) So will mute my
microphone when I shove handfulsof popcorn in my mouth and if
you're like Marcus, you'll haveI-- like all down the front and

(04:26):
Scott.
In fact home-- I keep tellinghim I'm going to get him one of
the hood Checkers with Mom; thefront.
You just like pour all thepopcorn in the hood that you're
wearing backwards.
spent so much time at the lakein our 20s and 30s when I was
in my water skiing heyday and wewore life jackets upside down
and backwards so we could floatin the water while drinking our
cocktails without spilling themeverywhere.
It reminds me of horse likefeeders.
You know that they just straponto the horse, like the feed
buckets that they just straponto their neck(Kellie) I
Brilliant, actually, we all needthat for popcorn.
But anyhow, our poor listenersalready are like what have we
gotten ourselves into with thisepisode five?
Well, Reis this is going to bea lot of fun.
This is where we're going toplay and have a good time.
So why don't you tell thelisteners the story of Pokey.
So Pokey is what our mom calledpopcorn and it was a favorite.
I remember so many nights ofher and I especially after you
had left home, scott had left(Erin) I home I have so many
memories of popping popcorn andplaying .
Scrabble with mom that was,.

(05:48):
.
.
.
.
.
checkers, that was what we didso much.
But she loved popcorn.
She absolutely almost alwaysmade it on the stove.
She made stovetop popcorn.
She had one of those stovetoppopcorn poppers where you would
crank The P-I-G, you know, and(Kellie) Yeah you'd put in the
oil and the popcorn and it wouldpop on the stovetop.
So that wasreally fun.
I now have an air popper I knowyou do as well and that's how I
make my popcorn.
But that's how we grew upeating it was stovetop popcorn.
I think I actually may haveinherited that original stovetop
popcorn popper with Erin handle.
I think that's what I used fora really long time and I know
that Reese and Lily probablyhave memories and recollection
of that particular popcornpopper when they were growing !.
Now I have one of those oldfashioned ones that you 20, a nd
and you put the oil in thebottom and it has that dome over
the top and it like pops thatway, and so, anyhow, that's the
pokey that I'm eating today.
I love that.
I will say that mom wouldabsolutely love
this Cozy chats, popcorn,storytelling, podcasting it's
totally her vibe and it is sofun to be on the airwaves just
like she was, in a different wayand sharing these moments with
you.
So I love that we officiallylaunched PJs and Pokey on the
PIG in (Erin) Oh honor.
Yeah, and I couldn't agree more, and we're going to have a lot

(06:10):
of fun with this.
To kick things off today, Iwanted to share something with
you.
So to honor my insatiableintellectual driving force,
which more I words, I pulledsome fun podcasting statistics
to celebrate the fact that we'reeven doing this at all, and,
erin, you're going to love this.
.

(07:47):
A also I Texas(Erin) I 90% of podcasts don't
make it past episode numberthree and of the 10% remaining,
80% don't make it past episode10.
So we're halfway there.
That's a huge accomplishment.
And 90% won't make it pastnumber 20.
And I know we're going to dothat and go so much further.
On average, it takes two yearsand 100 episodes before
podcasters start seeing realresults.
Only 11% of all podcasts everlaunched anywhere around the
world make it to 50 episodes.
(Kellie) HARD WORK(Kellie) To here's the good news
We've made it to episode five.
We're already seeing resultsand receiving incredible
feedback.
We have the best accountabilitypartners in each other and,
above everything else, we'redoing this from our hearts, with
a strong vision of purpose,intention and gratitude.
Oh, wow, that is so incredible.
Well, I will say that I am veryproud of us for being in In
Episode One that have made itpast episode three athlete, and
and, yes, like you said, we arewell on our way to go.
Above and The beyond BoxesEpisode, I am so deeply touched
by the response that we havealready received, both from
people we know who knew aboutthis project and have supported
us through its infancy intolaunch, and also I know we'll
talk about this, we referencedit in the intro about all the
new people that we have EpisodesTwo shared just Three in the
last couple of weeks, especiallyat Marcus South by who is in
20+, and the incredible responsewe've gotten.
So I'm very proud of being, us.

(11:23):
(Erin) Thank you so much.
I am really looking forward tothis conversation as we relive
and recap these four incredibleepisodes that are already behind
us.
Episode, I am so deeply touchedby the response that we have
already received, both frompeople we know who knew about
this project and have supportedus through its infancy into
launch, and also I know we'lltalk about this, we referenced
it in the intro about all thenew people that we have Episodes
Two shared just Three in thelast couple of weeks, especially
at Marcus South by who is in20+, and the incredible response
we've gotten.
So I'm very proud of being, us.
And it was(Kellie) Yeah am very
competitive in nature, and sothose statistics drive me to
keep putting one foot in frontof the other and reaching our
next achievements and to keepthings going.
But more than that, more thanthe statistics, is knowing how
many people we have alreadytouched through these episodes
and how much more is yet to come, and the hearts that are going
to be changed, the The thatroject going to be impacted, and
the continued conversations oflife, love, loss and legacy
episode we are going to have.
We are just getting started.
We are just getting started,and everything that you just
talked about really is giving usfuel to keep on keeping on when
the going gets tough, andwhoever said podcasting was easy
was full of it.
This is hard work but, ifanything, it has proven to me
how much strength, resilience,perseverance has been (Erin) I
in who you and I are as humanbeings, and that comes from all
of the upbringing that we've had, the mother who raised us, all
of the experiences that we'vehad in life, through love, with
loss, and everything that we'veexperienced.
And we're going to talk a lotabout that, not in today's
episode, but we are going to laya little bit of a foundation
about where we're going infuture episodes.
To kick off today's PJs andPokey episode, I thought it
would be really great for us(Kellie) It talk about some of
our biggest takeaways from thefirst four episodes, what stood
out, bit, but us and what reallyresonated.
So, to just give a quick recapfor listeners who haven't
listened to the first fourepisodes, and we do encourage
you to go back and listen tothem.
Episode one we talked to ChrisHoward, former athlete film and
television producer that we'vebeen working with on bringing
what we're calling right now theboxes story to life, and that
is really the legacy story ofwhat our mom did, knowing that
she was going to miss verymeaningful milestone moments in
our lives before she died 30years ago, and so we'll talk a
little bit about thatconversation with Chris and
takeaways that we had from that.
Episodes number two and threewere a two-part series with my
husband, marcus Straub, who's a20-plus year life and business
coach, a remarkable warrior of ahuman being and all the
experiences he's been through inhis life, and your boyfriend,
jason, who is one of Chris'sbest friends and also was the
person who really brought us towhere we are today.
And then our fourth episodewith your dear friend, wendy
Cohen, whose daughter, lacey,was abducted and murdered over
20 years ago in Fort Collins,colorado.
These are four really, reallypowerful episodes.
So, erin, I'm going to kick itoff to you to get us started.
Thank you so much.
I am really looking forward tothis conversation as we relive
and recap these four incredibleepisodes that are already behind
us.
Episode one with Chris Howardwas remarkable.
Bringing this story to lifewith him and his palpable
passion Merging for Veterans thetiming Players and the
potential impact that this storycan have on others is really
incredible.
He shared with us really openlyabout his personal life, love
and loss experiences and throughthat, shared several different

(11:49):
types of loss, and we havetalked about from the beginning
how loss is not just (Erin) Yes.
Loss comes in so many differentsizes and shapes and forms, and
Chris shares about the loss ofhis football career as a star
athlete at the University ofMichigan and then being drafted
into the NFL and then, soinjury, having basically being

(12:12):
forced into early retirement.
He shares the loss of hisfather, the loss of his first
marriage.
Really incredible to have aconversation with him about the
impact that working on this(Kellie) Yeah project and us has
already had on him and his ownviewpoint of legacy and what

(12:35):
that really means.
(Kellie) So, I thought it wasgreat when he was talking about
legacy as an ever-presentreminder
of somebody's life and lovewhen their absence becomes part.

(16:33):
W ow.
The .
Right, that absence could bethrough the shifting of
relationships or, obviously,death and Erin.
But I loved that concept thathe really explored and wanting
to really bring that to theforefront with other people
through storytelling andparticularly through the Boxes
Project with you and I, air, andI want listeners to go back and
listen to the episodes so thatthey can really hear directly
from Chris about that.
But I also really loved hisexploration of grief as an
opportunity for growth, toself-evaluate, to look at who we
were and who we want to be, andthat it's okay for grief to
inspire and encourage us toaccept change and to channel
that into something reallypowerful versus being something
that can sink you.
(Erin) I love that and, alongwith that, really how we can
allow loss to reshape us, tobecome more confident and strong
and to build andexpand our empathy.
h s i a I g i o a s n o m d ic a t i can t g i g a s a y.

(17:55):
"(Kellie) .

(19:14):
.
.
.
s.
.
.
.
Grief and loss in all of itsforms allows us to be and to
become more human.
It does, and I think that we'regoing to talk about this in
just a little bit.
But that statement right thereof grief allowing us to be and
become more human is really anintegral part of what's happened
with you and I through thelaunching of this podcast,
working on this project, reallybeing open and honest about the
disconnect that started tobecome a part of our lives and
the reconnection that we havenurtured and really been very
purposeful in creating throughthis whole process.
So I look forward to exploringthat even more.
That theme came up in episodestwo and three with Marcus and
Jason, and also in episode fourwith Wendy, and I think that
those common themes across allthe episodes is one of the
biggest takeaways for me so far,and it'll be fun to continue to
see how those themes take shapeas we go.

(20:45):
(Erin) As last thing that Ithought was so awesome about
that episode with Chris waslearning about the merging
veterans and players, the MVPprogram that he's become a part
of, and understanding howsimilar service and sports
actually are and how veteransand athletes have, together,
through this incredible program,learned to travel the road of
loss and change and releasingexpectation, together with such
incredible support andencouragement.
Yes, that MVP program is"comparison really incredible
and I had no idea that itexisted, and so that was really
wonderful to learn about, andthere are details about the MVP
program in the show notes fromthat first episode.
So I do want to encourage ourlisteners to go back and, of
course, listen to episode one,but click on that link and go
check out the incredible workthat Merging Veterans and
Players is doing.
Yeah, in sneak peek, we'regoing to have experts from MVP
on future episodes of thepodcast.
So, without giving it all away,we do want to encourage you to
stay tuned for that.
So, episodes two and three withMarcus and Jason wow, the men
behind the women, behind thewoman behind the boxes.
I have to tell you, erin, Ishared this with so many people
at South by that we're goingahead, to talk about South by
specifically as we keep going,but what a breath of fresh air
to hear the depth and thebreadth of the stories that
these men strong, authentic,resilient, vulnerable men shared
with us as partners, fathers,leaders.
They talked about their careers, they talked about being
fathers, what that means to them.
They talked openly and honestlyabout their past relationships
and their relationships with us.
The loss of family members andparents in a way that I don't
think you often hear men talkabout, especially publicly.
I completely agree.
It was really impactful and Iknow that it was impactful for
listeners.
We've gotten a lot of feedbackon that so far.
.

(23:03):
.
.

(23:28):
(Erin) I was a really incredibleconversation and there are so
many key quotes and takeawaysfrom those episodes.
One of the things that Marcussaid and I wrote it down when
you choose to and I just thinkthat is so beautiful it is a
choice.
And so often in the moment,especially when you're in the
throes of grief, it doesn't feellike you have a choice to do
anything else but grieve.
But through the time and workand effort you can realize that
you do have a choice on how youview that grief and that loss.
And that was a really beautifulstatement that deeply resonated
with me.
It's a powerful statement andas we talk about all different
types of loss and the differenttypes of grief that come with
different types of losses andthis is very poignant because
you and I have been very open inthe fact that through this
process we have learned, withempathy and understanding and I
would say more have become fullyaware than learned that due to
our age difference I'm sevenyears older and you are the
exact same age now 47, that momwas when she passed Seven years
ago, I was 47.
So I get it that was such aweird milestone but that we
processed our grief very, verydifferently, and we talk about
this in the episodes coming upuntil now, but I also think it's
going to be part of thisconversation, especially as we
take a dive into thereconnection that we've
experienced as sisters and howawesome that has been and what a
gift that has been as part ofthis journey.
I think that Marcus's work as aprofessional coach over the last
20 plus years and his gift isreally playing in the nuances of
people's lives.
Right, you know, there's whatpeople tell you with their words
.
There's what they tell you withtheir body language and tone.
There's what is told to youthrough the assessments that
they take and the specificcircumstances that they're in,
whether that's personal orprofessional.
That concept of being able toturn grief into gratitude
anytime you choose to issomething that I know I have
embraced in my life and that youhave embraced in your life, and
I really hope that ourlisteners are able to grab a
hold of the power of that nugget(Kellie) I'm of wisdom, because
that really is wise Erinabsolutely and to understand
that there are no rules when itcomes to how different
individuals move through and tothe other side of grief.
As you referenced, we're allraised differently, we have
different behaviors and beliefs,and so embracing that concept
and giving yourself permissionto move through that space in
"he timeframe that you need totake to move through that space
and giving yourself grace andpermission to grieve the way
that you need to grieve and Ilove that Wendy actually said
this in her episode which isdon't make your grief my grief.
You know, comparison is thethief of joy.
I know that is a quote that youand I have shared in so many
different aspects of our livesover the years.
Comparison is the thief of joyand even comparing my grief to
your grief is not a healthything to do.
We need to give ourselvespermission to grieve the way
that we need to grieve.
Yeah, that's really important,erin, and I would say another
one of the great takeaways I hadfrom the episodes with Marcus
and Jason was this concept ofregret, and in Wendy's episode
it was the concept of guilt.
So we'll talk about that in aminute because they're two
different things.
Laurie there was a point whereJason talked about having some
regrets and Marcus then talkedabout comparing regret to road
signs and that the road signsexist to direct you in different
places.
You know, exit here, exit.
You know so many miles aheadand that if we can see regret as
a road sign and, I think, guilttoo.
So if we take that kind ofanalogy and we apply it across
the board, if The P-I-G theprocess of life, love, loss and
legacy we have these emotionalroad signs regret, guilt or
uncomfortable lack of confidence, whatever it might be if we can
use that as a sign to stop,take a deep breath, reflect, tap
into our empathy and ouremotional intelligence to say is
this how I want to feel movingforward from here?
Is this in my best interest?
Is this going to be helpful forthe situation?
Is this going to affect otherpeople that are around me my
spouse, my sister, my children,my grandchild now and use those
road signs to help us makebetter choices as human beings
that create a ripple effect andhave a positive impact, not just
in our own lives internally andexternally, but in the lives of
everybody that we touch on aday in and day out basis.
I Pop, that.
That's incredible and sobeautiful.
I completely agree.
The All P-I-G, of that resonateswith me and I love it.
a t f o t l t m a p part pftheir living legacy .

(28:13):
A I s i i M w R a l L j l.
; T.

(28:33):
A(Erin) Before we move on toepisode four and Wendy, I also
want to take a minute because wedo share stories of life, love,
loss and legacy, and there wasa lot shared in that episode
about loss and legacy and griefand so many things around that.
But one of the things that Ireally want to make sure that we
point out, that was soincredible and that hopefully
resonates with our listeners, isboth Marcus and Jason's extreme
passion for family andfatherhood and the impact of
that commitment and ourunderstanding of how important
being an active and engagedfather actually is, and they
share really openly about thatpassion for family and
fatherhood and it's a reallybeautiful gift.
I'm going to tag something onhere, erin, because I believe
this is an important thing forus to bring to the surface.
We have alluded to it in a fewof our early episodes, but I'm
just going to talk about itopenly and honestly and upfront.
The reason that family andfatherhood are so important to
you and I is that we have abiological father and we have an
adopted father.
.
It's father relationship is areally painful part, quite
honestly, of our experience,especially for me, because I'm
seven years older.
I The had Boxes a very close hewas my hero relationship with
our biological father.
That changed very dramaticallywhen our parents got divorced.
I was about 11 or 12, whichmeans you were four or five
super young.
Our mom went into her throes ofcancer as a single mom.

(29:59):
.
A nd talked about her historyin the first episode, but our
connection to and our father,with our biological father
really ended at that point.
It became, I will say, very,very strained and he divorced,
some choices Mom that are Pophis choices alone, because we
were children, right,referenced, were kind of along
for the ride and we were in thethroes of a really tough
situation.
It was very hard and we'llprobably spend some time really
unpacking this, because it's ahuge loss in my world and I know
that it's a big loss in yourworld.
At the same time, within acouple of years of that
situation unfolding, we had thegift of a stepdad coming into
our lives, which brought astepbrother, and when they came
into our world, they and ourgrandparents had experienced a
devastating loss because Lorihad died in a car accident with
her two best friends.
Lori is Pop's daughter andScott's sister, six years older
than me, 13 years older than you.
When we all came together, itwas just this instant family and
we really all filled this veryspecial place of emptiness in
each other's hearts.
I don't know how to describe itother than it was really more
of a spiritual and emotionalexperience.
It was all about feeling andpresence and connection, which
is the very core of the PIGpodcast, He's and through that
process, you and I wereeventually legally adopted.
In fact, I was adopted over theage of 18.
So I graduated high school withone name and went to college
with a new name, a new driver'slicense, a new birth certificate
and a new social security(Kellie) He.
And Pop who I look forward tohaving on many episodes of the
boxes because we have a lot todiscuss and a lot to explore In
every sense of the word has beenmore of a father than I ever
could imagine anybody else being.
We are not biologically orgenetically related, but we are
the epitome of"high family andof fathers and daughters, and I
feel so unbelievably blessed tohave him in our life, to be
loved to the depth of his beingas daughters and to have had
this experience.
So all that to say and that wasquite a tangent that this
concept of family and fatherhoodand watching Marcus and Jason
specifically put fatherhood,like I feel it in my heart and
life as a mother to Savannah andnow Kiki, to Rain, her daughter
, and I know you feel the sameway with Hadley and Weston and
their relationship that isevolving and growing with Jason,
and also Harper and herrelationship that is evolving
and growing with you.
So, anyhow, fatherhood is a bigdeal.
I could spend many, many hoursjust talking about that, but
anyhow, that was a huge part ofthat episode for me as well.
Well, I really want to thankyou for sharing all of that.
It was a beautiful tangent, sodon't apologize for that.
I am happy that you dove intothat and, as you stated, I know
that we will have morediscussions about this and that
part of our journey, thosechapters of our lives, because
there is a lot there and thereis a lot to unpack when we're
talking about life and love andloss and legacy.

(32:55):
(Kellie) Speaking sure, it's sofascinating to me as we have
been on this journey togetherand we've had so many
conversations since Lacy startedworking on the boxes project
with Chris and really havingdeep, meaningful conversations
about our past and 17, childhoodand our upbringing and how
differently we experienced .

(33:19):
.
.
only the loss of our mom thatwe have discussed, but we
experience all of that earlychildhood very .
.
.
t here of our age difference andso, while you had so many years
and a true upbringing by ourbiological father.
I did not.
I didn't have those formativeyears with him.
I was so young when our parentsgot divorced and when mom
married pop and we did becomethe instant family that you
referenced.
I was six years old and so hereally did raise me.
I am his and I know you feelthat way too.
.

(33:59):
( and.

(34:32):
a w t w t I of .
(Kellie) .
I'm so grateful for all of thethings that Pop has done for who
he is, for the man he is, forthe father he is, for the
incredible grandfather that heis, for the husband that he was
to mom, for the husband that heis to our stepmom Katie, for
all the things.
He was an incredible physician.
He was just an amazing pillarin our community, so well known
and respected, and he still is.
He's a really remarkable humanbeing and I also look forward to
having him on Lacy's podcast asa guest and having
conversations with him and forintroducing him to our listeners
so that everyone else can be apart of celebrating the
incredible human being and theincredible man that he is.
He has left just as much of aliving legacy as our mom left
her legacy while she was alive.
But you know, especially we'vebeen really talking about this
project, the boxes and the giftsthat she left behind when she
knew that her life was coming toan end, and the bravery and the
courage to embrace thatwholeheartedly.
So we have so much to unpackthere.
I know you and Colorado I areboth really high eyes and so we
can get off on rabbit trails andtangents.
So that is a sneak peek (Erin)Yeah what's coming up and we'll
talk about some of the episodesthat we have planned that are
really going to starthighlighting some more of our
personal story and and thispodcast.
We want to keep reminding ourlisteners that this isn't just
our voice about our story.
This is all of our voices aboutall of our stories, because
hearing the stories of othershelps us create a meaningful
connection to our own.
But we are going to weave inothers' stories and expert
advice alongside our ownexperiences that have been
really broad and they haveinvolved a lot of loss, a lot of
resilience, a lot of hope and alot of healing.
Speaking of those four things,we Lacy would be remiss not to
talk about our most recentepisode with Wendy.
Her daughter, lacey Jo Miller,was abducted in front of their
home under a streetlight by a23-year-old young man January
17th 2003, who pulled her Lacyover impersonating a police
officer and it takes some timeto just let that reality sink in
.
You know I can't think of manythings.
There are a lot of bad thingsin the world c"hat that is just
an unbelievable reality.
And one of the heartbreakingthings in that episode for me
with Wendy was and we talkedabout this a moment ago with
this road sign of guilt was howdo I deal with the fact as a
mother that I was just 30, 50feet away when my child was
taken by somebody who my childbelieved with every ounce of her
young being was somebody safeand that she did all the right
things.
She knew enough.
She did all the right things.
She knew enough and Wendy talksabout this in the episode and
Lacey was 20 years old and therewas a car behind her with a
flashing light and she knewenough to drive to a lit area
and, like you said, parked undera streetlight across the street
from her home.
She had mace, she did all ofthe things that I will speak of.
As a mom would have thought toeducate and train my child to do
Absolutely Her unwaveringstrength through that grueling
10-day experience of knowingthat Lacey went missing and then
them eventually finding Lacey'sbody at Poudre Canyon and for

(34:53):
people who don't know, poudreCanyon is a remote canyon north
of Fort Collins that runs upinto the mountains.
The river flows all the waythrough Lacy.
The fact that they found herwas even a miracle and listen to
the episode to get the fullstory.
But her strength through all ofthat, her intentional

(35:13):
connection to the man whoabducted, tortured, brutalized
and killed Lacey's brother, whothey went to church with Wendy
and Mark and the family and werethere that very next day after
she went missing and werepraying for her and then
building a relationship with hismother and encouraging her to

(35:39):
help him make a choice to do theright thing, and the peace that
all of that has brought to them.
I have such incredible respect.
I cannot put myself in theshoes of Wendy because, as high
as I have trained my empathy tobe, Lacy I have not been there.
Now we have girl, and imaginingso much about her life and her

(38:21):
legacy.
a(Kellie) I'm sure it has been.
her in that way.
Yeah, it's so interesting andthat conversation with Wendy
Lacy's was very powerful.
It's a very heavy story.
It's a story, though, thatdeserves to be heard.
I knew Wendy and I knew Lacey,Wendy-- that happened in my
community as part of,! the time, the church that we all were
attending.
It sent a ripple through thatcommunity of shock, of fear"oh I
was just Eerin's five yearsolder than Lacey.
It really is one of thosestories that you see on the news
, you see on Dateline or anytrue crime show, or you read
about it or hear about it.
It's a classic.
That doesn't happen here, itdoesn't happen to us, it doesn't
happen to anybody we know, andit was very real and we knew the
family.
It's hard for me to go back tothat place.

(39:30):
(Kellie) So, I that we heardthat Lacey was Erin missing ,
none of it made sense and wecouldn't believe that it was
happening.
So I want to echo everythingthat you shared.
The depth of that loss isunimaginable and unless you've
experienced it, you just have noidea.
I also,(Erin) Oh as a mom, Icannot put myself in Wendy's
shoes and it's impossible toimagine and think of that
happening and my heart breaksfor her and for that loss.
But I am so deeply inspired byher resilience, her forgiveness,
the love and grace and strengththat she has shown literally
from day one, and I know ithasn't always been easy.
But it's really beautiful tosee where she is at now and to
listen to her beautifulremembrance of who Lacey is, who
she was as a little girl andimagining just so much about you
know her life and her legacy.
Imagining just so much aboutyou, know her life and her
legacy I'm sure it has been, youknow.
I'm so in awe of Wendy'sgratitude and how she continues
to celebrate Lacey's life and,at the same time, hold on to
this beautiful little girl thatshe raised and all of the
wonderful attributes about whoLacey is, who Lacey would be
today.
I remember right after ourconversation with Wendy and talk
about needing to go for a walk.
But I laid in bed that nightand I was thinking about you and
that's what came to my mind was, oh my gosh, erin's 47 now.
Lacey would be 42 now.
That means that Erin was onlyfive years older than Lacey.
That could have been my sister,that could have been me, that
could have been anybody, and nowI have a daughter who is the
same age that Lacey was when shewent missing.
It's just really incredible howtime passes and it allows us to
put everything into this bigger, grander perspective.
I completely agree, time isfascinating, so I have a
question for you, erin.
So, before we move into whatthis journey has meant for us as
sisters in these first episodes, is there anything that has
come up that has changed the waythat you think about love, loss
and legacy in your own life?
Oh yeah, there's actually beenseveral moments and I I Lacy

(39:52):
have personal takeaways fromeach episode, each conversation
with Chris, with Marcus, withJason, and the beautiful thing
for you and I too is that we getto have all sorts of side
conversations and recap, andthere's always key moments for

(40:12):
me.
I shared one of them a littlewhile ago.
That quote from Marcus of youcan turn grief (Kellie) That
gratitude as soon as you chooseto.
That is something that I thinkwill resonate with me for a Lacy
long time.
It was that impactful.
You know, I also have theprivilege of recapping and
having conversations with Jason,and said, "she's being a guest.

(40:37):
He did share with me, Erin helistened to the episode with
Wendy, how difficult that wasfor him to listen to, but how
grateful he was for her honesty(Erin) I her vulnerability, and
one of the things that he sharedwas how beautiful it was the

(41:00):
way that Wendy talks about Lacey, because she talks about her as
if she is still alive and it'sso true that you know she just

(41:30):
talks about her as if she's inthe room and how meaningful

(43:43):
(Kellie) Because was.
It was a Erin perspective that,even though I know it The and
Boxes I heard it to see howdeeply it touched a listener of
the episode was reallyincredible.
That is really incredible, asyou were sharing that So, I was
thinking about Wendy talkingabout the streetlights, how
Lacey turns on and off thestreetlights and plays with
energy, and she even this wasn'tincluded in the episode, but
she even said she's going tomess with you.
When you're editing, you payattention, you watch out.
Yeah, she was like if yourmicrophone's cut out or there's
glitches, I just want you toknow that that is Lacey messing
with electricity.
I had so much fun playing withLacey as I was editing the
episode, and so that was anotherway of a living legacy, like
showing up, and I thought it wasso interesting that she talked
about the streetlights going onand off, and that's where Lacey
disappeared, was underneath alit streetlight and that her
light went out that night, butthat her light has stayed on
through two decades,(Erin)You're and so .
I just thought that was a reallyinteresting concept.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's actually reallybeautiful and poignant and I
love that.
(Kellie) (Kellie) I thinkwhere that really started, was W

(45:14):
EI heard it to see how deeply it
touched a listener of theepisode was really incredible.
That is really incredible, asyou were sharing that So, I was
thinking about Wendy talkingabout the streetlights, how
Lacey turns on and off thestreetlights and plays with
energy, and she even this wasn'tincluded in the episode, but
she even said she's going tomess with you.
When you're editing, you payattention, you watch out.
Yeah, she was like if yourmicrophone's cut out or there's
glitches, I just want you toknow that that is Lacey messing
with electricity.
I had so much fun playing withLacey as I was editing the
episode, and so that was anotherway of a living legacy, like
showing up, and I thought it wasso interesting that she talked
about the streetlights going onand off, and that's where Lacey
disappeared, was underneath alit streetlight and that her
light went out that night, butthat her light has stayed on
through two decades,(Erin)You're and so .
I just thought that was a reallyinteresting concept.
That's actually reallybeautiful and poignant and I
love that.
(Kellie)So when we come back, erin, I
want to take a dive into whatthis journey has meant to us as
sisters.
I can't wait.
We'll be right back.
I love reflecting on all ofthis.
It's wild to think about howmuch has already happened in
just four Whitey.
But as much as we've beentalking about our guests and the
impact of their stories,there's another part of this
journey we haven't fullyunpacked yet, and that is us,
absolutely.
Because, let's be real, erin,this podcast hasn't just been
about the boxes, which we talkedabout in the first episode, and
the gifts that our mom left usand our guest stories, which we
really highlighted in episodesone through four, but it's also
been about us as sisters,co-hosts and two people who have
lived very different lives butwho have always been deeply
connected at the heart, yes, andthis project it has challenged
us, stretched us and brought usback together in ways I don't
think either of us saw coming.
So let's explore that and talkabout what this journey has
meant to us.
I think the first thing we needto say is that we are both
strong, independent women who,despite our differences and our
difference in age, have alwaysmaintained a profound and deep
love for each other.
But we've also had moments inlife where we've just lived in
different worlds, where, as Imentioned in our first episode,
I feel like we let life get inthe way instead of love being at
the forefront.
You're exactly right Sevenyears apart, different
experiences, different phases oflife, and at times it felt like
we were close in spirit andalways connected at the heart,
but, like you said, livingcompletely separate realities.
I think where that reallystarted, erin, was.
I was that kid who had theperfect sixth year of living.
I was born on June 25th, soChristmas was always my half
birthday.
So I was four and a half andthen I was five and a half and
then I was six and a half, andwhen I was six and a half I
actually got a pony forChristmas.
It's actually a really, reallyAllen story.
So I was expecting a littlesister, mom was pregnant with

(45:38):
you and of course, I got upearly on Christmas morning and
ran in to see what Santa leftand unpacked the boxes.
?

(47:02):
!And we grew up farm kids and so
we had horses, chickens, sheep Iraised sheep for 4-H.
We had cows, cats, pet Chris,,The rabbits, kittens, dogs,
podcast-- you name it.
We had it.
I always wanted point-- horse.
Grandpa had this incrediblehorse, whitey, and if anybody
has ever watched Yellowstone, wekind of grew up in a miniature
version of Yellowstone.
Our great-grandfather came toWestern Colorado in the early
1900s with his three sons.
Our grandpa was the youngest.
He came over on the boat whenhe was Rita two years old.
His two younger brothers wereborn here in the United States.
So we(and were from this big,hot-blooded Italian family.
I think that's about all I needto say.
.

(48:50):
(Erin) I lived on the farm, allof our cousins were around and I
was six and a half and all Iwanted was a pony for Christmas
and a little sister for mybirthday in June, and that's
exactly what I got.
I remember Christmas morningthat year [Insert tears.
] and.
(Kellie) I Don't was sodisappointed because..
y ou you can't Erin a pony andthat's all I really wanted.
tears, I remember Alan, ourfather, had said to me after we
got all done.
And presents hey, you need tostart your chores, go get your
coat and boots on and go out andget the paper.
And I'm thinking what the fuckit's Christmas morning, I just
want to play with my toys.
I'm thinking what the fuck it'sChristmas morning, I just want
to play with my toys.
I'm sad I don't have a pony,but you know, I want to play
with my toys.
So I begrudgingly went and gotmy coat and my boots and I
walked out the front door,started trudging through the
snow and Snowball.
My pony was tied up to the treein the front yard.
I will never forget that momentas long as I live.
That paled in comparison to mybirthday gift, which was you,
and I think that, through theprocess of working on this

(49:38):
(Erin) I with Chris the Boxesand, developing know, podcast,
through all the conversationsthat we've had leading to this
point, I would love to hear fromyou, because my feeling is that
this is the first time thatyou've really recognized, and
I've been The Boxes communicate,how much it meant to me to have
a little sister coming into mylife.
That's all I wanted, so much sothat when our mother's parents,
rita and John, came to visitright about the time that you
were supposed to be born andback then you know, we just had
estimated due dates, not likespot on technology driven due
dates and they took me to thestore to buy a present for you.
And I bought a pink elephantand I remember Grandma Rita
saying are you sure you want toget a pink one, because it could
be a boy?
And I'm like, uh-uh, no, it'snot, it is a girl.
And just like Wendy's motherknew that she was having a girl,
I knew that I was having a girl, I was getting a little sister,
I was having a girl, I wasgetting a little sister.
.

(51:50):
(Kellie)I love that story just as much.
Every single time I hear it Iwish I still had that pink
elephant.
I am so grateful to know abouthow desperately you wanted me
and I feel like I have felt thatfrom you every day of my life.
Sorry, don't apologize, we'reboth.
You know, erin, you and I bothshed a lot of tears and the fact
of the matter is our listenersare going to hear us cry and I
think it's important that we'rehonest and real with our
emotions, because life is realand it's emotional and I think
emotions are a really beautifulthing and, quite honestly, I
think they're underrated.
I don't know that we always giveourselves enough permission to
feel and express our emotions inthe way that we need to.
I think that is true and youknow one of the comments that we
have made maybe I should say itthis way one of the
realizations that you and I havehad as we've embarked on this
project and on this journey thatstarted with the boxes story
and evolved into our decision tostart this podcast, is that, in
all the ways that mom made it apoint to show up in these
milestone moments, throughleaving the boxes, all the gifts
, as we've lived our lives andwe've gone through these periods
where we've been really closeand then more distant, we've
worked together in differentcapacities and then had our own
careers and done our own thing,and just through the ebbs and
flows of life and love andmarriages and divorces and kids
and all of the things, and nowliving in different parts of the
United States this past yearthat we started on this journey
that marked 30 years since herpassing, in all of the things,
the realization that you and Ihave had is that it has felt
like from beyond that momfinally called bullshit on any
disconnect that you and I havehad and that the greatest gift
of all, the greatest gift thatshe gave either of us, is each
other.
That is probably the one thingthat, if I had to choose, the
one thing that I am mostgrateful for through this
journey, it is that it's therealization that you are my
greatest gift and that I amyours.
You are my greatest gift andthat I am yours, and I don't
ever want to take it for granted.
And we know that nothing inthis life is promised, but our
sisterhood is and our love foreach other is, and I'm very
grateful.
I'm very grateful too, and infact, when you were talking,
erin, I thought purpose,intention, gratitude.
We are being very purposeful,very intentional and very
grateful, not for just the giftsand this opportunity, but
finally for each other in a waythat I'm not sure we have before
.

(52:10):
For me, the deepest level ofgratitude I have through this
whole experience has beenconsciously choosing to embrace
this experience withauthenticity and raw
vulnerability, just like wetalked about those men showing
up in episodes two and three.
I have so much respect for that, but I have a deep level of

(52:33):
respect for how we have done thevery same thing.
We agreed to go on this journeytogether, not knowing what it
was going to require of us andwhat the road was actually going
to look like.
It was blind faith.
There was hope, there wasanticipation, but the clarity
that has come through ourconversations and through

(52:56):
looking through pictures andgoing through boxes and
unpacking memories has been morethan I ever could have imagined
.
So it's been very healing foryou and I to go on this journey.
(Erin)But here's the thing we were
both open and I know that one ofthe things you and I both hope
for other siblings who hear thispodcast, or somebody who shares

(53:22):
this with a(Kellie) wouldn'tfriend or a family (Erin) Oh or
just even publicly, and somebodyactually listens to(Kellie) I'm
it and hears the power andpurpose of this podcast and has
a broken relationship with asibling and purpose of this
podcast and has a brokenrelationship with a sibling.
I'm going to encourage thoseindividuals to find it somewhere
in their hearts, if it'spossible, because.

(53:43):
(Erin) A not always possible.
You and I have some brokenrelationships them in our family
that are not going to be mendedunless a .
miracle Because happens, and Ihave learned to accept that.
But if it's possible, whetherit's a sibling, a parent, a
child, a cousin, an aunt or anuncle, or even a friend who used
to feel like family and nowthey don't the one promise that

(54:07):
we have in this lifetime is thatlife is short and if there is a
way that you and I can be anexample for other human beings
to say I'm willing to embracemisunderstanding, I'm willing to
embrace missteps, I'm willingto embrace my own failures, my
own assumptions, my ownexpectations and I'm willing to

(54:29):
put that down so that we canhave a conversation to figure
out if there is a path for usforward or not.

(56:51):
(Kellie) Yeah feel grateful thatyou and I were never at that
place of complete disconnect.
I think we were at a place ofmisunderstanding or maybe hurt
feelings or, you know, there'sall kinds of words we could
unpack to you know, describethat.
But we were not connected asclosely as we used to be as
children and I think that's tobe expected as we mature in age
and move across countries andhave different careers and live
different lives and raisechildren differently and have
different marriages, divorces,experiences, all of that.
But the bottom line is there isa thread of connection that
exists biologically and I'm agenetics junkie that exists
between human beings and even inour own non-genetically related
family.
That bond and that cord is sostrong.
I'm grateful that now I havethe communication skills, the
clarity and the confidence to(Erin) Same.

(58:01):
A nd is right now and I want tochange it.
Are you willing to do the same?

(58:22):
(Kellie) You have had Erin a lotof conversations about the
impact that we hope our journeycan have on someone, even if
it's just one person, one mendedsisterhood or relationship.
.
If thank you, wouldn't that beamazing?
Oh yeah, I hope we hear fromour listeners.
I'm waiting for the day wheresomebody writes us or calls us
or reaches out or makes acomment or shares a message
where they say your story helpedme heal this relationship in my
life.
To me, that would make everyounce of all of this worth it A
hundred percent, a hundredpercent.
And then we'll have him on asguests and we'll hear their
story and it'll be amazingbecause here we are, side by
side, doing this projecttogether, and I have to say I
never could have predicted howembarking on this experience
would bring us together in adifferent kind of way and the
hope that it's given us to bringother people together in a
different kind of way.

(59:35):
.
(Erin) Oh,Yeah, we have spent so much time
together over the last yearworking on this project and
exploring, in ways that wedidn't anticipate, each other.
That has led to anunderstanding that we didn't
have before.
We have gotten that clarity, wehave been able to step into
each other's shoes with empathyin a way that we never have
before, and being able to seelife through the lens of another
human being is so beautiful.
In fact, I find myself applyingthe lessons that I've learned
and the conversations that we'vehad to other relationships in
my life, especially with my ownchildren and other relationships
that I really want to close thegap on.
Being on.

(01:00:23):
(Kellie) this And journey withyou has inspired me at a deep
and spiritual and emotionallevel, to recognize my own blind
spots and find a way to movepast them.
Own blind spots and find a wayto move past them Same, and I
think that the empathy thatwe've both gained for how each
of us experienced ?
Yes, this loss we've maneuveredthrough it, is really profound.
So there are so many greattakeaways from this project so
far, but the reality is I'm verygrateful, I'm most grateful to
be on this journey with you andI've loved working with you.
.

(01:01:36):
(Kellie)You know, erin, you and I have
worked together throughout ourlives in so many different
capacities, which is probably,honestly, what led to a lot of
our disconnect if we're reallyreal about it is it is not easy
to work with family, and Marcushas really become an expert in
coaching small to medium-sizedfamily-owned and operated
businesses and is really soughtout for his work in that area,
because it is not easy.
You know, you and I were borninto a working family farm and
ranch.
I married into a working familymy first marriage.
It was difficult and so muchlack of communication and
misunderstanding and thesebeautiful relationships that go
awry because of that.
And so to enter into thisproject with Chris and this
podcast with you and workingtogether has really forced us to
have big girl grown up matureconversations at this stage of
our lives that I don't think wenecessarily had when we were
younger, which resulted in someof the disconnect, oh for sure.

(01:02:24):
(Erin) I I think what makes thiswork is that we both deeply
respect each other and a"oh lotof that has come with time and
maturity, for sure I willdefinitely speak for myself on
that and that we are willing tohave those conversations.
.
(Kellie) Yeah such a peoplepleaser by nature, expect, we
don't shy away from the toughstuff.
We have now become really openand raw and authentic and
vulnerable with each other, andboth of us will start those
tough conversations if we needto and if the other one of us
starts that conversation, bothof us are willing to jump in and
have those conversations andnot shy away, which I really
appreciate about us, and it'sresulted in you and I feeling
more connected with each otherthan we have in years, and it's
allowed this podcast to becomeso much more meaningful than
either one of us thought itwould be when we started it.
I don't think we grasped thenhow much it would mean to us
personally.
Right, this is, yes, this isabout our guests and the stories
and how hearing the stories ofothers helps us create a
meaningful connection to our ownand unpacking all these
different aspects of life love,loss and legacy.
But as much as it is about usand about family, it's about
making the space for each otherin a way that we haven't ever
done before, and for that, asthe big sister, I am really
proud of us.
That, as the big sister, I amreally proud of us, and I know
without a shadow of a doubt inmy mind that mom is just as
proud of us and that came up ina lot of conversations that we
had last week in Austin at Southby Southwest.
So when we come back, let'stake a dive into that experience
, the people and the impact.
So, erin, as if launching thispodcast wasn't already a wild
enough journey, we also just hada really fun experience
together.

(01:03:16):
(Erin) Yeah and I came down toAustin for South by Southwest.
It was an experience.
The energy, the people, thedepth of those conversations was
so fun.
Oh my gosh.
Yes, it was all just next leveland I know we're both still
processing all of it.

(01:04:39):
(Kellie) I feel like South bySouthwest was one of OWN, pinch.
moments where I realized.
, A new oh, wow, we're reallydoing this, and the reception
that we received for and aboutthe PIG from the people we met
was extraordinary.
It was very moving, yeah, andnot knowing exactly what to
expect.
I really enjoyed stepping intoa bigger world of connection,
creativity and realizing thepower of not just our own story
but storytelling in general.
In fact, one of the things thatreally stood out to me was just
how many incredible people wemet.
So many different industries,so many different backgrounds,
so many different stories andyet every single person we
talked to.
We kept finding these powerfulconnections back to love, loss
and legacy.
Yeah, and I think that the otherthing that was really profound
for me in these conversationswas that energy just attracts
like energy.
We did meet so many incrediblepeople and I felt like we met
all the people that we weremeant saying, "I conversations
with and hearing stories andmaking connections and talking
to people about what they do ortheir life experiences, and
people that we will have on asguests in future episodes, not
only to share stories of loss,but to share their expertise in
their respected fields and howthat impacts what we're doing
here.
It was great energy.
The experience was incredibleand, even though I live in
Austin, last year was the firstyear that I ever attended South
by Southwest and I only attendeda couple of events.
That was with Jason and it wasjust very small scale for me.
So, like you, I didn't reallyknow what to expect, going into
this with the intention ofsharing what we're doing, to
build some connections andrelationships, and we learned a
lot for sure, but having you andMarcus here and spending time
together was absolutelyincredible.
I want to give a quick shout outto OWN O-W-N period Own your
Own Shit new social media app.
We can talk a little bit aboutwhat OWN is and how it's going
to revolutionize social mediaand how you really do own your
own shit by the content that youpost onto the platform.
But OWN kind of hosted us.

(01:04:59):
We were tagging along.
Jason works for and with OWN.
He was really instrumental intheir exposure and their
presence at South by and theyhad so many events right on site
and so we really, although wekind of said, were"Is out and
about and around and met somereally great people in different

(01:05:22):
locations, we really kind ofplanted ourselves at OWN.
Two things Intention really andGratitude.
A nd to me.
The first was the number ofpeople who circled back with you
and I after our firstconversation to have a second,
third, fourth into-- maybe fifthor 10th conversation and kept

(01:05:42):
bringing people back logo-- themsaying I want you to meet Kelly
and Aaron, I want you to hearabout their podcast and the
mission of what they're doing.
To me that Southwest for me.

(01:08:06):
Hands down, it gratitude forgoing.
on(Erin) Well this journey.
because, also raised my levelof confidence that we can do
this, that we can reach theright people, that we have a
message that needs to be heardand that individuals who are
searching for hope and a pathwayto healing whatever their life
has brought, whatever love hasbeen or means to them, whatever
losses they have experienced orgone through, that they can live
a legacy filled life in thetime that they're here to live
that life.
So that really stood out to me.
(Kellie)The second thing was you and I
printed up (Erin) Yeah greatfour by six promotional cards
and we have our QR codes on themand the website and our Jean
logo.
And she was walking from whereshe picked up the card to
Unaliwear, inside and passedright by watch.
The talking to somebody else.
But Jean Anne was standingright there and she was probably
about the same age that we arenow, probably about the age our
mom was when she died, right,and she looked up at me and she
looked at the card and she .

(01:09:34):
But me and she said is this youguys?
And I said yeah, and she saidI'm so intrigued, I love your
logo, said I'm so intrigued, Ilove your logo.
And I said can you tell me why?
saying, "your broke into thisstory about Shel Silverstein and
the giving tree and we all getcut down and the new growth with
the green leaves and the PIGwhich you and I have shared is
reflective of our mom, born inthe year of the pig and
collecting pigs her whole life.
But we didn't want to name itthe pig, so we called it the PIG
.
Purpose, intention, gratitude,and as she spoke, it was just
like this angelic voice ofyou're on the right path.
She got it.
Everything that Enstrom and Ipoured into with Lily, because
Colorado helped us create thatamazing logo, everything that we
wanted it to represent, she wasverbalizing back to me in that
moment and I started Enstromcrying.
It was the greatest moment ofSouth by Southwest for me.
Hands Enstrom down was thatmoment?
Well, yeah, because iscreations; they somebody see
what we saw, for somebody tojust get it in that way and like
we were just talking aboutbefore Enstrum break and our
desire for us to inspire renewedrelationships and all of that.
If somebody, if just one person, gets it and is impacted by
this, then it was all worth it.
And I feel like that moment wasso beautiful for you and for
this journey that we are on isthat she saw it, she was
captivated by it, it spoke toher and she verbalized it.
Her name is escaping me rightnow.
I can see her face, feel herenergy and that was such a
standout moment for mepersonally.
Erin, I know you had some aswell.
Yeah, I had several reallyincredible moments, Enstrom's
one in particular with a womanwho is an incredible
entrepreneur, jean Ann Booth.
She is the CEO and creator of acompany called Unaliware and
it's a medical device.
Watch the conversations Enstromthat we had with Jeanne Ann,
because she was somebody whokept coming back to us.
She was so deeply touched.
She had actually had aconversation with somebody else
who had(and told her about ourpodcast and then brought her
over and introduced her to us,but she really created this
medical device for!) and withher mom, and it was so beautiful
to hear her speak about whatwe're doing and how(Kellie) Yeah
deeply that spoke to her,especially the legacy piece of!
that(Erin) We and she keptsaying your story.

(01:09:58):
Jeanne Ann handed me her cardand the very first thing that I
noticed was her tagline, whichsays extending independence with
dignity, and I thought that wasso beautiful.
There were so many people, somany key connections, so many
incredible conversations.

(01:12:24):
(Kellie) Ultimately could talkabout all of them for the next
several hours, but I also wantto give a shout by to reinforced
our very first founding sponsor,The P-I-G from our hometown of
Grand Junction, colorado.
They're a fourth generationcandy company.
We have been part of thatfamily's life for basically our
whole lives.
The second generation owners ofInstrum Candies(Erin) Exactly
were our next door neighborsgrowing up and so we knew the
Instrum family.
We knew their incredible toffeeand The P-I-G.
They were part of our home.
Mom sent toffee to everybodynationwide, worldwide for
holidays and celebrations andeverything, and so the Instrum
family has been part of ourfamily for(Kellie) Yes a really
long time.
And then I had the privilege ofactually babysitting and
nannying for the thirdgeneration owners when they had
their two boys.
I used to watch those boys,especially when they would go
off to candy conventions andstuff.
And now the boys are all grownup and they're the fourth
generation owners.

(01:13:20):
(Erin) Yes talk about a familylegacy.
But I do want to give a shoutout to Instrums because they The
sent P-I-G, us the little petitetoffee bites to hand out to
people at South by Southwest.
And so you and I (Kellie) Weloaded down with our tote bags
and individually wrapped Instrumtoffee and we were sharing the
podcast and talking about familyand talking about love and
legacy and then The P-I-G knowabout our founding sponsors and
sharing this toffee with them,and that may have brought
several people back to us timeand time again because they just
could not get enough of this1970s (H appy but it Pigs was
really fun Puddle) to share thegift (which with so The many
Three people Little that Pigs wemet The Three, Little and Pigs
mom Plus loves Two), the 1990s.
(When Pigs Fly, and t hat piggedout, that's for sure series);

(01:14:07):
in the know.
.
a (Erin)Ultimately, I think, what hit me
was how much that experience,particularly in those we've
talked about at South, byreinforce what we're doing here
with the PIG.
Every conversation we had allcame The P-I-G this universal
truth that stories connect us,that love and loss shape us and
that the legacies we live andleave really really do matter.
Exactly, and hearing otherpeople's reactions to what we're
doing, seeing their faces lightup when we told them about the
PIG, that was so validating.
Every single moment of that wasvalidating.
It reminded me that what we'recreating here is Erin, it's
needed and it is resonatingbeyond just us The P-I-G , so,
south by Southwest wasdefinitely a defining experience
.
But(Erin) I as much as we lovelooking back, we also love
looking ahead, and we have someincredible episodes and
conversations coming up.
Yes, so before we wrap up, let'sgive our listeners a little
preview of what's coming next onthe PIG what for, what topics
are on deck and why peopleshould stick with us on this
journey.
We have some powerfulconversations lined up and,
without giving too much away,(Erin) But I thought it'd be fun
for us to highlight some ofwhat's coming up next on the PIG
.
So part of what we're going todo is weave in (Kellie) So share
our life and deeply personalstories of love and loss through
the decades.
So we're going to start in the1970s, happy as pigs in a puddle
, move into the 1980s, which isthe three little pigs and the
three little pigs plus two.
The 1990s, when pigs fly.
That will definitely be atwo-part series.
2000s we were sweating likepigs.
2010s we were pigs in a poke.
And the first and next half ofthe 2020's Going Hog Wild.
I love it.
I am so excited for what's instore for our listeners.
Erin also have plans to have ourkids and family members sharing

(01:14:31):
their Pokey stories andinsights and, along with that,
guest experts in grief, healing,relationships and legacy
process,.
Everybody who is part of thePIG has inspiring stories .

(01:16:24):
(Erin) of Same, Sister.
E very healing and perseverance, and also stories of connection
and reconnection transformation, and one of the things I am
most and especially excitedabout is our listener stories
episodes.
These are going to be listenerswho've submitted their own
stories of love and loss in allthe ways we think about it and
all the ways we don't thinkabout it, because, erin, as you
and I continue to talk about,the PIG isn't just about our
voices, it's about all of us.
I am also excited to bring inmore experts, not just on grief
and loss, but on the ways webuild meaningful legacies, both
in life and beyond.
And that brings us to somethingreally important.
(Kellie) And not just building apodcast, we're building a
community of connection.
We've said it before and we'llkeep saying it the PIG isn't
just about us.
It's about all of us navigatinglove, life, loss and legacy
together, and we've been lovingthe engagement in our Facebook
and Instagram par part of also(Erin) And to remind everyone
about our expanding own anddiscord channels, where we'll
really begin the process ofdeepening our connection in real
time between episodes.
So if thepigpodcast.
com you're listening and theseconversations have resonated
with you, we.
(Kellie) And love to hear fromyou, whether that's through a
message, a comment, a story orjust joining the conversation
online.
(Erin) ! aErin, I love that we're creating
a space for these PJs and pokeyepisodes, not just to reflect
on what we've learned, but toreally create connection, to
process and to share what thisjourney has meant to us
personally Same sister, everyepisode, every guest, every
conversation has left an impact,and being able to step back,
look at where we've been anddream about where we're going,
that has been such a gift.
And, of course, we wouldn't behere without you, our listeners,
our community, the people whohave been on this journey with
us from the start or who arejust joining us right now.

(01:16:45):
Thank you for tuning in, forsharing, for sending us messages
and for being a part of the PIG.
And this is just the beginning.
We want this conversation tocontinue beyond the podcast, and
there are so many ways toconnect.
Visit our website atthepigpodcastcom to learn more
about how you can partner withus and remember, if what we're

(01:17:06):
building or discussing resonateswith you, we'd love for you to
subscribe, leave a review and,most importantly, share the PIG
with others.
This has been such a specialepisode and we're so grateful to
be on this journey with you.
Until next time, friends, hogsand kisses you.

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