The Keeper of the Boxes: A Father’s Promise, A Family’s Legacy

Note: This is Part Two of a two-part series. For the full story, we encourage you to start with Episode 10: "Charting the Course: A Father’s Legacy of Loss, Love, & Living Well."

When our mom realized she wouldn’t live to see our birthdays, graduations, weddings, or the birth of our firstborn children, she created a legacy of love in the most tangible way she knew how—through a collection of hand-wrapped boxes, each containing a handwritten note and a deeply personal gift for life’s milestone moments still to come.

In this second part of our Father’s Day series, we sit down again with our dad—the man who became the Keeper of the Boxes. With quiet devotion and heartfelt resolve, he protected and delivered each one of those gifts over a decade, fulfilling a sacred promise made before our mother’s death in 1994.

These weren’t just boxes. They were time capsules of love, symbols of presence in absence, and a living expression of legacy that continues to shape our lives. In this emotional and unforgettable conversation, our dad shares what it meant to be the steward of such an extraordinary mission—and how the final delivery became a moment of profound closure, completion, and connection.

If you’ve ever wondered how to carry someone’s love forward… this is that story.

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Episode Transcript

The Sisters (00:05):
If you haven't yet listened to part one of our
conversation with our dad, weencourage you to start there,
because we're picking up rightwhere we left off.
What began as a journey throughhis life, love and loss has now
led us here, to the heart ofthe story, to the boxes, to the
promises made and the promiseskept.
She knew she wouldn't be herefor the biggest moments of our

lives (00:25):
graduations, birthdays, weddings, the birth of our
children.
So, before she died, our momdid something extraordinary.
She wrapped up gifts, each onecarefully chosen, with a
handwritten note, and marked formilestone moments we hadn't yet
reached.
And our dad held on to them,guarding them, honoring her
wishes and delivering them asshe asked, at just the right

(00:47):
moment.
These were more than just boxes.
They were time capsules of herlove, a legacy she built with
intention, and today we'resharing that legacy with the man
who became the keeper of theboxes.
This is part two of ourconversation with our dad, a man
whose steady presence andunwavering devotion helped
preserve something sacred,something that became the
heartbeat of The P-I-G.
Part two of our conversationwith our dad, a man whose steady
presence and unwaveringdevotion helped preserve
something sacred, something thatbecame the heartbeat of The

(01:09):
P-I-G and a legacy we're honoredto carry forward.
Welcome to The P-I-G, where weexplore life, love, loss and
legacy through realconversations and meaningful
stories, with purpose, intentionand gratitude.
I'm Kellie and I'm Erin.
We're sisters, best friends,sometimes polar opposites, but

(01:29):
always deeply connected by thelife and love of the woman
behind the boxes, our motherMarsha.
So settle in, take a breath,because this is the Boxes and
the legacy that started it all.

Erin (01:52):
You know, I think about Pop, you and your life, and you
know the families that you'vebuilt and kids that you've
raised and your incrediblecareer, and I feel like we just
got a 30,000 foot view of yourlife and so many of the things
that you've done, becausethere's so many other things

(02:13):
that we could highlight thatyou've done and accomplished in
your life.
But I know for me and I think Ispeak for Kellie and probably
all of us kids and grandkids andgreat grandkids that you have,
you're such a pillar of strength, you are so wise that just that
love of learning that you evenreference, that you talk about,

(02:37):
I've been witness to that myentire life, you know.
I know that you read theencyclopedias growing up,
because whenever I asked you totell me anything about anything
growing up.
Your response was go look it up.
Go look it up in theencyclopedia.
And so it's incredible.
But I think about you.
You know, your strength, butalso your resiliency.

(03:01):
You know how you've faced somany of the struggles and trials
that you've faced in your lifeand you know we've talked on
this podcast even about mom.
You know, coming into thisworld as a fighter, being born
prematurely and having facedeverything that she did, you

(03:22):
know, in the 1940s.
But you also have your ownstruggle, even through that time
, as a child who was, you know,diagnosed with polio and all of
the health struggles that youfaced as a young man.
And I think about grandma andgrandpa and the incredible
impact that they had on my lifeand I can only imagine that

(03:46):
there's so much of who you arethat is inherent.
There's a lot of nature versusnurture things that we could
talk about.
But I know that so much of thatstrength and resilience that you
have is not only just who youare, but it is also a product of

(04:07):
how you were raised and whatyou were taught, and there's so
many life lessons that flash inmy mind of, you know, these one
liners that I heard from you andmom growing up that are, also,
you know, growing up, that arealso, you know, echoes of

(04:28):
lessons that grandma and grandpataught you as a child and us as
children.
You know some decisions you makewith your head and some you
make with your heart.
We can talk about all of theseexamples all day long, but I do
want to recognize just what agood human you are, because the

(04:50):
fact that you did step into ourlives and raise us as your own
and love us in the ways that youhave, and that you've continued
to do that even after mom died,and that you've continued to
just show up and be such apillar of strength, speak so
loudly about your character andyour integrity and the
incredible man that you are, andyou're an incredible husband

(05:14):
and incredible father and anincredible grandfather, and you
wear so many different hats andyou are so many things to so
many different people.
You are an incredible physician,not only wise and skilled
professionally, but coupled withjust the incredible bedside
manners that you have, becauseyou're such a caring,
compassionate human being, and Ijust really want to highlight

(05:39):
who you and so many of theseattributes that are so admirable
but have come from a life thathasn't always been easy and I
just really admire you and Iadmire the ways that you show up
for the people in your life andhow loyal you are.

(06:00):
I'm so blessed to have been onthe receiving end of your love
for most of my life.
Well, thank you.
I'm so blessed to have been onthe receiving end of your love
for most of my life.

Pop (06:08):
Well, thank you, I'm blessed the other way that I'm
able to do it for you, foranybody.

Kellie (06:16):
One of my favorite stories and I ditto everything
that Erin said.
We have cried a lot of tearstogether over the years on just
the emotional side of becoming afamily and, more importantly,
staying a family.
When you chose to adopt Erinand I which we'd love to hear a

(06:38):
little bit about that experiencefor you from you it wasn't too
many years later that mom had tosay goodbye and when she left
not of her own choosing therewasn't a missed beat at all.
We were parents and we werechildren.
But there are men in the worldwho may have taken a different

(07:03):
route, who may have chosen tosay you know, I may have taken
on that responsibility when Iwas married to your mom, but I'm
not going to keep going withthat responsibility, and I think
that that speaks directly toyour loyalty, your commitment
and the depth of the connectionthat we all shared from the very

(07:24):
get-go.
There was never any question inour minds that we were
unequivocally yours, period,always and forever, and it's
been truly one of the greatestblessings of our lives.
There aren't words to expressthe depth of that gratitude,
especially on Father's Day.

Pop (07:44):
Well, thank you, that's a lot more of a gift than a tie.
I love you guys, and I guess theonly thing I can say is all
these things you've said aboutit, but I remember when my first
born that is not my first childborn, but my first grandchild,

(08:06):
which was Reese, which is Kellie, if you didn't know Before that
happened, I had lots of friendsthat saw us as a family and
they said how do you feel aboutbecoming a grandpa?
I said I have no idea.
I said I've never been onebefore.
I only had one grandfatherbecause my dad's dad died when

(08:27):
my dad was 17, 16.
But my mother's father was afarmer in Kansas and I always
thought about what he was likeas a man.
Therefore, I'm looking at himbecause he's a grandfather, my
grandfather, but what he waslike a man and then what my
father was like a man, and Ithought about and there, as a

(08:50):
grandfather, especially as agrandfather, to try to get an
idea of how I felt aboutbecoming a grandfather.
What does that mean?
And I would tell those friendswho were talking to me and I
believe it completely is what Itried to do was oh, I don't know
what I feel like being hisgrandfather, but I guess, if I
have to put it in some kind ofwords is to try to instill in my

(09:11):
grandchildren to be good people.
And I set an example for that,for them, because that's the
kind of example I saw my fatheras a grandpa and I saw my great
grandpa as a grandpa.
They were and you knew myfather they were committed, they
were very respectful of otherpeople and very true to their

(09:36):
work.
And to me that's what I wantedto be an example, like my father
, like my grandfather, becausethat's the only thing I could
think of.
What do I want to be as arepresentative?
What do I want to be as agrandfather?
And that is to have thosechildren as they grow.
My children, especially mygrandchildren I mean go right

(09:58):
down the list, whether it's youknow, whether it's Reese or it's
Hadley or it's you know, loganor you know the other half of
this big blended family is to bethere as an example and show
those attributes of what theywould have strived to grow up to
be.
And that's basically all Icould do.

(10:19):
And so I used what I thoughtcame down from my
great-grandfather, that I knewquite well, and then my father
and I could become a grandfather, and it's a little bit
different but very, very similarto how I would be a father is
to have them see what I wouldlike to have taught my children

(10:40):
and therefore not so much teachbut to show my grandchildren
what it's like to be a parent, aperson, a friend, an
acquaintance, but to be anexample of being a good person.
And that's how I would answer.
What am I going to do?
Well, I haven't really been agrandpa yet, so all I can do is

(11:01):
kind of look on where I havebeen a grandchild and a child
and I like to raise my kids thatway and, you know, for the most
part, be a good example forthem.
Now, you know I have, I'vefailed in some of those areas,
but I think the areas where I'veI would hope that I've not
failed outweighs the negatives,you know.

(11:22):
But I appreciate you thankingme for that, for Father's Day
and stuff, and and beyond, as itwere.

Kellie (11:29):
Yeah, I think that's a great segue into something that
Erin mentioned earlier Pop whichis all of these incredible ways
you have contributed outside ofyour family through all the
decades - eight and a halfdecades of your living.
You learned to fly before youcould drive a car.

(11:53):
You became a flight instructor.
Later in life you learned toplay music and, even though you
did stay with music, youinstilled music in the lives of
all of us and then, in the lateryears of your life, in your
retirement, decided to get intomusicals and productions and

(12:14):
learned how to sing and tapdance and perform in community
theater, which was incredible.
You were in ski patrol and Iknow that was at a time when
Lori and Scott were competitiveski racing and you did so much
work with youth through skipatrol, from boating and

(12:35):
navigating and boat races andbeing a celestial navigator,
being, as Erin talked about,such a well-respected and
skilled physician.
You're a voracious reader andlearner and now, at 85 years old
, are not only so activelyinvolved in your community that

(12:56):
I know how well-respected youare on Orcas Island for what
you've done to contribute tothat community, but you're a bus
driver and I haven't sharedthis with you yet, but I'm gonna
share it with you now.
I know unequivocally that thosechildren who are in your care

(13:17):
day in and day out on that busand I know they're not always
easy and not always perfectlywell-behaved and there's a lot
of challenge that went intobecoming a bus driver.
It was very taxing and verychallenging and kudos to you for
doing it.
But the contribution that youare making in the lives of those
children right now who yearsdecades from now because I can

(13:40):
still remember my favorite busdrivers in elementary school and
in junior high the impact thatyou are making on the lives of
those children, the stories thatyou've shared just with the two
of us and also their parents,knowing that those children are
in the safety and security ofsomebody who knows what he's

(14:02):
doing and is committed to doingit well day in and day out,
those are some lucky kids and Ijust I think what you're doing
right now, at this stage of yourlife, is so admirable and I
have so much respect for it.
I echo all of that and it'salso such an amazing example

(14:24):
that you are setting for all ofour kids.
I mean I know that I speak forWeston and Hadley and Reese and
Lily and Savannah, who thosekids love, their grandpa, and
who you are and how present youcontinue to be.
It's just unmatched.

(14:45):
They're so lucky to have youand I know they keep you young.

Pop (14:51):
Well, that's your nice Father's Day gift you guys have
given to me with your words.

Kellie (14:56):
We love you, pop.
I have a question for you.
We want to talk a little bitmore about the boxes as part two
of this series of episodesfeaturing you in honor and
celebration of Father's Day andyour role as a father, as a
grandfather, as agreat-grandfather, and in all

(15:18):
the ways you father, becauseyou're again in your work right
now, fathering children everyday.
But as you think about legacyand all of the roads that you
have traveled, the journey youhave taken through your lifetime
, what's most important to youin these sweet years of your

(15:44):
life and living, as you thinkabout legacy and what it means
and how we're living our legacyactively in the moment?

Pop (15:52):
Well, I think you know you're talking about the boxes
and all that stuff and thelegacy that, how I see it is,
I'm not afraid when I do pass,but I guess it's the same thing
I was saying earlier is that Iwould think my legacy is sort of
, I would hope, be the legacythat I think of the most elder

(16:13):
of people that I know in myfamily would be my grandfather,
who's passed a long time ago.
But in my mind, my legacy that Igot from him is exactly what I
talked about earlier.
He's remembered to me and I knowa lot of people as just a good
human being and, that being said, be remembered as what each of

(16:40):
the people that might think ofme as a legacy, which would be
my kids, my grandkids, mygreat-grandkids that I've known,
that are old enough to know mewe just talked about.
I would hope that my legacy is aremembrance of who I was in all

(17:00):
these aspects that you'vetalked about, and hopefully is
remembered the legacy of whatthey would see as just a good
human being.
And I would also like to say mylegacy, hopefully, would be
that they would remember thoseaspects too, that they keep

(17:21):
being good human beings and havethat, you know, if it's
appropriate.
My legacy would be what,hopefully, is what you described
that they would use that as aguiding light or something.
You know, I, we both havetalked about the fact that, with

(17:48):
this huge push that we have,that knowing her and I agree
with everything you said whenyou had your podcast with her
and that I would hope that Iwould be the same, or that we as
a couple are kind of the anchorof that push you know, and
that's what I would hope mylegacy might be.

Erin (18:04):
Thank you for sharing that .
Yeah, you are the anchor, andthat's the perfect analogy for
you as well.

Pop (18:11):
Yeah, heavy old blob sitting on the bottom

Erin (18:13):
W hatever.

Kellie (18:18):
Far from that.
.
.
Navigating through all sorts ofwaters and being the calm in
the storm and keeping us allanchored and rooted um.
I can't think of a better wayto describe exactly who you are
and the legacy you're living.

Pop (18:39):
We're all lucky, I think.
We're all lucky.
Yeah, so I was going to reflectback on what one of my bus kids
which is fun.
I get all these really funcomments, but I don't know if
I've told you guys the onesabout the little second graders
who were going on a field trip.
It was two classes of secondgraders, two different classes,

(18:59):
so there were about 40 kids.
We only have two bus routes, soin those 40 kids there was a
small percentage that even ridethe bus.
So there's quite a few of thekids who do not ride the bus and
a couple of the kids will ridein my bus and a couple of kids
might ride in one of the otherbuses and then there's a lot of
those kids that don't ride inany bus.

(19:21):
But whenever the kids ride onthe routes, we only have two
routes.
So we've got one route driver,which is me, and another route
driver, which is another one,and we do have subs, but they
don't necessarily drive theroutes all the time.
So the route drivers and thetwo and all the subs will tend
to drive other than the routesat various times, like field

(19:44):
trips or athletic events orwhatever it is.
So when the kids would go on afield trip, especially the
second graders.
They might go on some kind offield trip to go out to some
farm, a petting zoo or whateverit might be, and so they all
line up by the buses and theyget on the buses, but the driver
could be any one of us thatdrives field trips and stuff,
and so some of those kids wouldhave different drivers for like

(20:07):
a field trip.
And it was a month or two ago.
They were going on a field tripand I happened to be the one
driving the field trip that dayand they were all lining up out
there to get on the bus and oneof the little second graders
happened to be one of the kidsthat rides my route and the
child turns around to theteacher and says I heard it and
the teacher had told me thestory too, turned around and

(20:29):
tapped the teacher and said thisis my own bus driver.

Kellie (20:39):
That is really cute, thank you.

Erin (21:14):
Okay, so for our listeners , if you've been with us since
episode one, you've heard aboutthe boxes, and today we get to
hear from the one person whoknew about the boxes all along
Pop.
You were the quiet keeper ofone of the most meaningful gifts

(21:35):
mom ever left behind and fordecades you protected that story
.
We have given our listeners atiny little glimpse into the
boxes.
Episode one is our interviewwith Chris Howard and the larger
project that we're working on.
But I'm really excited to hearmore from your perspective about

(21:59):
the boxes, not only the largerstory, but then diving into a
little bit that we've alreadytalked about, and dive deeper
into the weight of it, the lovein it, all of the moments of
those boxes and what they meantto you, and and we can dive into

(22:21):
what was in each of those boxes.
But as Kellie and I have beentelling and retelling this story
with Chris, it has become evenmore apparent in my mind, more
so than it's ever been before,that this is a family story.
It's not just my story orKellie story or mom's story, but

(22:45):
it's really a story thatbelongs to all of us.
And, just like I mentionedearlier about the fact that we
have all experienced the samescenario in wildly different
ways and what the box's storymeant to me is very different
from what the box's story hasmeant to Kellie, has meant to

(23:06):
Scott and then certainly hasmeant to you, especially having
all of the knowledge of theboxes and being tasked as the
keeper of those boxes until eachmoment.
So I really want to dive rightin pop to your role as the
keeper of those boxes and thepromises that you made to mom

(23:32):
about that, and let's just kindof dive into the experience from
your perspective.

Pop (23:38):
Well, I don't know how much introduction we need to do, but
, as I said in the last podcastearlier to do, but as I said in
the last podcast earlier, thatmom was very sick I mean very
sick, and it was clearly gettingready to pass on under hospice
care.
And she introduced me to theconcept when I went into office
at her invitation and she wastelling me about her plan, which

(24:00):
is, initially it was to givethese silver rattles to the
firstborn of each of you, threekids Scott, Kellie and Erin.
Three of you, and because thoserattles were selected several
years before by the two of us,long before she was sick, and
the two of us selected themtogether at the same time, with

(24:22):
the idea that she would, with me, give these rattles to the
firstborn of each of you.
And that was kind of the end ofthat discussion, until she
brought up the fact that she wasputting them in these boxes,
that she realized that shewasn't going to be around for
the three rattles to be given tothe firstborn, because at that

(24:42):
time, well, two of you weremarried that would be Scott and
Kellie but there wasn't anactual child in the picture.
In fact, when we got therattles.
It was several years before that, so when she called me in there
, she was doing this and herplan was to put them in a box,
wrap them in similar writing,put inside a note which would be

(25:03):
from her, because she wasplanning on these boxes being
given to the firstborn.
So she figured she wasn't goingto be there, which she wasn't,
so she would have a note inthere about the rattles and
would say something like yourdad and I got these rattles a
long time ago and we werethinking about what we were
going to do with them andeverything else.
But she was now going to putthem in a box and wrap them, and

(25:25):
then she had extended that shewanted to give something of hers
to each of you girls.
But there would be severalitems that were meaningful to
her and also related to me, thatwould be given at notable
highlights of your lives, andher plan was to wrap each of

(25:47):
these items in a separate boxwith an individual handwritten
note by her, and that the boxeswould be numbered, wrapped in
the same paper and bedistributed when those events
occurred which she assumed shewasn't going to be available for
and she made a list.
I can't remember at this timewhether it was handwritten or

(26:08):
was typed.
I know that the notes she wasgoing to put in the box were
handwritten.
I actually saw several of thenotes, but the numbers on the
boxes would be on this list thatI had, which was the number of
the box, what was in the box andwhen it was to be given, asked

(26:32):
me if I would do that for her,which I said I surely would.
I promised her and then, whenthe boxes were all finished and
everything else, then she gaveme those in the list and, to be
honest with you, I don't knowwhere I put the boxes, but I do
remember I put the list with myimportant personal papers and I
think she told me at the timealthough it was my impression
and I know it happened because Iacted on it and that was.
It was all a secret Nobodywould know about any of it at

(26:56):
that time until the boxes wouldappear at the appropriate time.
So what that meant was and Ididn't really think about it at
the time but was it okay?
I've got to put these boxessomewhere where, as my life goes
on, the boxes would follow mearound.
It would be in a relativelysecure area from the point of
view of getting lost, but alsofrom the point of view of being

(27:18):
discovered, and separate to theboxes was this list, and the
list was clearly what it was,and so I wanted to keep the list
had to be separate because Iwanted the list available so I
could refer to it from time totime.
You know like, oh, you know,this is happening, it's coming
up, I better better pull thisoff.
And I just never thought aboutthe years it would pass, or you

(27:41):
know where I would be moving orwhat I would do with the boxes
and store them and transportthem.
And none of these operationalparts of the story never really
entered my mind, except that Isaid I'd do it.
And so you know, within weeksof that discussion she passed.
It was all fresh in my mind atthat time because I had my list,

(28:04):
I knew where it was,everything's stored, wasn't
planning on moving anyplace, Ididn't have any idea what the
future would bring, except thatthese events probably would
occur.
Probably I would be around andI just want to be sure I was
available to pull it all off.
I never thought about thedifficulties, the surprises, the
timing of anything other thanwhen it would occur or where I

(28:29):
would be when that occurred.
For example, I might not be Imean, I may be living in Germany
and the event would occur in,you know, Tennessee or something
.
But I said, you know, I figuredI'd work and I promised her I
would do it.
But the difficulty of it, eventhe emotions of it, didn't
really impact me at that timebecause I didn't think of the

(28:50):
emotions of what might occurwhen I do it or when I couldn't,
you know I just I said I'llpull it off and I didn't think
of it at the time.
But as I've looked back overthe years and reflected on it,
it didn't consciously hit me asI was the logical person to do
it for her.
It didn't hit me that, you know, I didn't think of it that way.

(29:12):
It was just like you know, shewas asking me and it didn't
think about she must've hadenough feeling personal about
who I was, what I would do, whenI promised that she was at
peace, believing completelywithout any doubt at all that if
I said I would do it, it wouldhappen.
So as time has gone on, I'vereflected on that and never

(29:38):
during the whole program did Ifeel put upon.
I didn't feel like I wish Ihadn't promised to do this.
I never thought that I wishedshe wouldn't have asked me.
I had thought from time to timeduring it I don't know if I can
pull this off because forvarious reasons as we might tell
in the story sometimes I wasn'tsure where the boxes were.

(30:00):
You know, have I lost one?
Or that I had misplaced thelist of the timing of things and
all that sort of thing?
So you know, the only time thatI really got upset about it
wasn't the fact that it had beenput upon me to have to do it,
it was the fact that I wanted todo it.
But I would feel very panickedbecause I couldn't find them or

(30:22):
I didn't know where the list was.
It was pretty routine for me tolook over the list because I
always kept the list somewherewhere I would be looking at
papers and say, oh yeah, this iscoming up, you know.
But you know, sometimes it'dbecome a little bit unclear to
me where all these things wereand in those times I sometimes
would get a little panicked, notso much because I wish I wasn't

(30:46):
asked to do this.
It was like I've screwed up andI couldn't honor my commitment.
You know, it's more that Iscrewed up rather than oh, this
is such a pain in the butt, youknow Right, although there are
people that thought that for herto ask that and of me to do it
was probably unfair.
I mean, I've heard that overthe years, not a big deal, but

(31:06):
my answer to that would be,"never entered my mind, never.
Ever.
Looking back on it, think morefrom the opposite side of what
she felt, not what I felt, and Ifelt like, oh yeah, I'm going
to do this, I want to do it foryou, I want to do it for the
kids and to me, if there was anydifficulty, it was labor of

(31:28):
love.
That's all it was and it's whatI said I would do, you know,
and I was happy to do it becauseof the labor of love.
So, anyway, at that moment theneverything kind of goes all
back to her passing on ascomfortably as she could.
The only thing that wasdifferent about all the bosses
except the rattles was that therattles, from the very beginning
, were considered to be a giftto the three of you and the

(31:51):
concept of getting the rattleswas going to be okay.
We'll give these rattles to thefirst ones and we bought them
and got them long before any ofthis other stuff happened,
whereas the subsequent giftswere more directed to her
wanting to pass a personal thingof hers to the two girls.
Because, you know, at this dayI can honestly say I can't

(32:13):
remember all of what they were,but I think that most of them
were not all of them, I thinkbut most of them were a gift
which I had actually given toher that she was then going to
pass on.
So, as the years went on, thenthe first box and I don't know
this as we sit here and we visit, but I always myself personally

(32:34):
never let anybody know aboutthe boxes until, as time passed,
when I married, katie knew that, knew about the boxes because I
told her, and the reason I toldher was because when she and I
got married and we startedtraveling and we started doing
some pretty exotic travel onboats for months, traveling

(32:56):
around in trailers, I mean wehad a lot of fun as a new couple
over the years moving up hereand everything else, and moves
were a time I wasn't sure wheresome of these things were and
Katie was sort of my backupsteward.
She knew where these thingswere at some point.
In fact, at one point she said,kind of reminded me that she

(33:19):
knew about this and she wasinstrumental in not keeping me
on track because I always wantedto do it, but to kind of bail
me out when I thought Imisplaced them.

Kellie (33:29):
Co-captain,

Pop (33:30):
Yeah, but the key to the boxe s..
.
I think, counting the rattles.
How many were there?

Erin (33:39):
I think nine.

Pop (33:39):
Nine.
So I think the first.
I can't remember exactly whenthe first one was, but it's
either got to be.
.
.
I'm thinking Erin's high schoolgraduation?
Because Scott's firstborn andKellie's firstborn were within
months of each other.
Reese was the first, so Reesewould have been my first

(33:59):
grandchild, followed closely byFinn, who was the second
grandchild.
So the two of the rattles wouldhave gone fairly quickly within
a year or two, but Erin was thefirst one.
Your high school graduation itwas?

Erin (34:15):
Yep.

Pop (34:16):
And does that precede the..
.

The Sisters (34:18):
Yeah, because mom died in September of '94.
And the first box came in Mayof '95, May or June of '95,
which was my high schoolgraduation.
And that was when I receivedthe set of pearls, so it was a
pearl necklace, bracelet andearrings.

Pop (34:39):
And I remember that I gave those to you down at Fountain
Valley right at your graduation,wasn't it?
But you didn't know anythingabout it and you were fairly
young then, and you certainlydidn't know about the other
boxes.
You just got a box for yourgraduation, right?

Erin (34:54):
Yes.

Pop (34:55):
And it was the pearls.
And then I remember, as theyears went on, doing all the
various boxes and they werealways emotional and I think,
even though you, erin, got thefirst box when the other boxes
came out, there were severalboxes along the way and it
really wasn't because of thelast box, I think, when the

(35:15):
first box came and you didn'tknow there were going to be more
boxes for anybody, and eventhough Kellie got a box or two
and Scott got his rattle,because you all got these things
individually, you didn'tnecessarily know that someone
else got a box exactly like itas far as the wrapping and the
personal note, and but they gotsome of the more emotional ones

(35:41):
that I remember.
I think the one that was most,at least from my point of view,
the one that was most surprisedemotionally and they were all
very emotional, don't get mewrong but the one that was most
surprised is the one who reallyhad forgotten that these boxes
were coming along the way,because Scott got a rattle and
then you got some when yougraduated from high school, but

(36:03):
then there was a gap before yougot anything, but in the
meantime Kellie got a boxbecause of this and then Kellie
got a box for that right and youmay have gotten one, but by the
time the last box was going tobe given, which was your
firstborn, and everybody wasemotional when they got the
boxes, obviously because it hada handwritten note from the mom

(36:27):
and what the box was andeverything else.
But what struck me was that youhad no idea I don't think you
were even involved with Scottgetting a rattle and that Kellie
got a rattle.
And then there were these otherboxes for other things, like
your graduations and stuff likethat.
But then when you had Weston,you weren't thinking that you're

(36:47):
going to be getting a rattle ora gift.
Had Weston, you weren'tthinking that you're going to be
getting a rattle or a gift.
You know, because by the timeeverybody else was getting gifts
, they were old enough to havekind of understand that this is
a momentous time.
And so the surprise was herewas another one of these boxes,
because they remembered gettingboxed for another period of time
.
But I just think that when thatlast one came with you, that

(37:09):
when the box was presented toyou, it was like kind of, oh,
I'd forgotten about all this,and all of a sudden it's like,
wow, you know, I don't knowIndividually.
Like Kellie, when you got a boxevery time, was it always a
surprise to you when you got one.

Kellie (37:24):
Well, yes and no, because if we look at the
calendar of the delivery of theboxes, so mom died in September
of 1994.
The first box was Erin's highschool graduation in May of 1995
.

Pop (37:42):
And neither one of you was there, you or Scott?

Erin (37:45):
They were there.

Kellie (37:45):
No, we were there.

Erin (37:47):
They were both there.
.
.

Pop (37:48):
Yep, okay, I didn't know they were both there.
Did you see it opened?

Kellie (37:50):
Yep

Pop (37:50):
Okay, I didn't recall that.

Kellie (37:51):
Okay, yep, we were all there.
And then in July and August ofthat summer I received my first
wedding anniversary box, whichwas that beautiful linked gold
necklace and earrings that youand Mom had made through the
years.
And Scott got his first weddinganniversary box, and I'm not

(38:15):
sure what was in that box.
And then, right after or rightbefore that, Erin got her second
box, which was her 18thbirthday.
And then there was a pause inthe boxes until the first two
rattles in January and April of1997, which were Reis and Fin,

(38:37):
and then there was a pause toErin's college graduation in May
of 2000, a two-year pause toher wedding, which was 2002, and
then the final box in 2004.
So what's interesting is thatmom died in 1994, and the last

(38:58):
box was delivered exactly 10years later.
Yeah, you were the keeper ofthat for over a decade.

Pop (39:07):
Yeah, and during that period of time we were moving
all over the place and I canremember one was the logistics
of me giving the box at theappropriate time.
I didn't want to mail the boxes.
There wasn't any concept ofmailing boxes or having a
surrogate give the boxes.
I was going to give the boxespersonally, which we did, but

(39:27):
sometimes I had to travel undersome kind of a rose to get there
.
You know, for one thing oranother.
Most of them were pretty closeby, but it was just the
logistics of me physically beingthere and I wanted to do it at
the event.
It wasn't like I really didn'twant to a month or two after the
graduation or the month or twoafter the event, you know,

(39:49):
present the box.
And I remember I was alwayskind of nervous.
I forget how the numbers wereon the boxes, but I was always
afraid that the number wouldfall off the boxes and I
couldn't realize which box waswhich?
Because that's the way theynumbered which matched my list
and at one point I couldn't findthe list and at one point Katie

(40:10):
says that I was almost franticat one point because I couldn't
find the box or the list sort itall out.
But we pulled it off.
And of course the last box thatI gave, because it was all over
a decade, was the most recentone to my memory as I sit here
right now.
You know the first box or twois like another 10 years back in

(40:30):
my memory as I sit here rightnow.
You know the first box or twois like another 10 years back in
my memory as I sit now.
But I remember it was alwaysincredibly emotional to me as I
gave the boxes, you know, and Ialways felt like each time I
gave the box it was like youthree, especially the two girls
that they really weren'texpecting the box.

(40:52):
The box appears, and as soon asthey saw the wrapping paper, t
hey didn't know what it was, butthey knew the concept.
But each time it was a surprise, even though they knew that
these things had appeared before.
And you know, like for yourgraduation one, a graduation
here, and then pretty soonsomebody else comes up their
graduation and here comes a box.

(41:14):
It's like, well, let's see,Erin got a box or Kellie got a
box at this certain time.
So here's my certain time thatyou know I may be getting a box
or you'd forgotten that you weregoing to get a box, but when
you saw the box you said, ohthere, it is Right.
So there was a part of, evensubconsciously, you were
expecting it, or that as soon asyou saw it, you knew what it

(41:34):
was.
You know, I mean not what itwas, but it was the idea.
And then, of course, when youopen the boxes, the profound
thing to me was always thishandwritten note; yeah, you know
not so much what it was, youknow the pearls or the watch or
whatever it was, as it was thishandwritten note.
And I think that that, for me,what it was in each one of them,

(42:00):
the actual item would meansomething to you and it was from
your mother.
But for me, the boxes that werethe rattles were profoundly
emotional, because I was therewith your mom when we got the
rattles and why we got therattles, and that the rattles

(42:21):
were going to be from both of us.
And so I give you a box whichis really your mother's legacy
to you girls.
But every time the rattleappeared, this was in the group
of boxes, but it was the one boxthat I knew exactly what was in
that box, because I'd actuallylaid hands on that.

(42:43):
I was involved in the originalconcept of let's give this
rattle, and each of the threerattles were different.
Right, right, we're going togive these specifically because
we both felt originally thatMarsha and I were both going to
give this box, these rattlestogether.
You know, all, all the otherstuff was her having me give the

(43:06):
boxes, like it was kind of hergift to you and I was the
conduit, as it were.
And so I think that's why therewas a little different, a
different impact of the emotionson me to when the last gift,
which was a rattle, was going,and it was not only the last

(43:28):
gift, it was, it was thecompleteness of my, of my love
message in my own personal.
You know, I actually pulledthis off, you know.

(44:12):
To me that whole concept of theboxes, from the day I first
walked in and saw her doing it.
We visited and talked about ita long time.
Actually it was a veryemotional talk because again,
she was dying.
But I'm kind of not the kind ofguy that if I would sit there
and watch your mom wrap awrapper and do a gift, but every

(44:35):
single box when I handed it toyou it was always the same
wrapping paper.
I mean it was the same paperand you know that kind of sounds
corny, but each time I'd givethe box it was reliving this
whole experience, you know.

The Sisters (44:47):
Yeah.

Pop (44:48):
Each time and when the last rattle went, it was reliving
this whole experience.
You know, each time and whenthe last rattle went to, and I
think the scenario of how I didit was symbolic to me because I
really felt in my mind's eyethat it was more of a surprise
to Erin than any of the boxeshad been all along the way, you
know.
But I was invested in thatparticular box because it was

(45:10):
the rattle which was also for me, right.
Yeah, the whole process wasthis labor of love.

Erin (45:17):
Although I'm sure I can imagine and you can certainly
expand on this if you want tobut I imagine that there was for
as much as you were honored todo that task and it was a labor
of love and you were excited tosee it through.
I can imagine that there wasalso an element of relief

Pop (45:37):
Oh yeah, no question.

Erin (45:38):
When you did give that final box, to know that my work
here is done, I did what I wastasked with doing and she would
be so proud and you completed it.
But I'm sure there was anelement, like you said, with the
moves and travel and all ofthat, that I can only imagine

(46:00):
how stressful it was to be incharge of that.

Pop (46:05):
Well, you know, there's no question.
I mean each time just theconcept of where they were
hidden and what was going to behappening.
Sure, I get the timing right,it was that way.
But you know, I I was visitingthis at one point very recently
with with Kellie I think maybeit was just somebody else, but
they were talking about howdifficult the concept of this

(46:28):
burden of going through thisthing, versus sort of like, when
I gave the last one and I saidit wasn't so much that it was
the last one, so I've completedthis bargain it was that the
whole bargain, the whole conceptfrom the day one with the boxes
was when the last one was given.
It was not a relief that, okay,I'm done, I've done it, as much

(46:49):
as the concept of completingthis wish that she had was not
just relief that it was over, itwas the emotions of Marshall.
We pulled this off.
We have this memory bank inthis story and that's the
completion of it.
And what I use as analogy it'sprobably not a good analogy, but

(47:11):
I'll have the best I can comeup with right now is that if a
woman gets pregnant, it's likeI'm taking on this commitment to
end up with this package, thisjourney, and going along through
the pregnancy and everythingelse and the labor is difficult.
It can be emotionally painful,it can be physically painful,

(47:32):
whatever it is.
You go along through the wholething but then, all of a sudden,
well, it's over.
From the point of view of allthe concerns and worries and all
that goes along with it it'sover and it's like, look what we
have, we've got this promise ofbeing a parent fulfilled,
whereas for me it's not a goodanalogy, but in my mind it's

(47:55):
like, oh man, it was tough attimes.
It was really tough at timesand I did have this commitment
to this process, and now theprocess is finished and it's not
so much the relief that it'sover, it's the relief of it's
accomplished, it's over, it'sthe relief of it's accomplished.
You know, and I did it, yeah,for her.
Therefore, her project and myproject were the same and we

(48:18):
pulled it off because shestarted it out by saying this is
what I want to do and I cannotdo it without you yeah, right
you know it's so beautiful.

Erin (48:30):
The other thing that I want to just touch on, because
you mentioned it, is that levelof surprise, and I think that I
was present for Scott and Kellieto graduate from high school

(48:55):
and college and get married andall of the things, and so there
was never any kind of spirit ofexpectation and I think that the
importance in that lies in thefact that each box, each box,
was given at a very uniquemilestone moment.
The only life event where therewas a duplicate box was for the

(49:19):
birth of our firstborn.
That was the only life eventthat all three of us experienced
that a box was given.
Outside of that, you know,there was one box given for a
high school graduation.
It just happened to be mine.
There was only one box givenfor an 18th birthday.
That was mine.
Because of that, because eachmilestone was unique, that every

(49:45):
box came as a surprise, becausenobody ever would have expected
that.
And so, even though I knew thatReese had received a rattle and
knew that Finn had received arattle, it never dawned on me
that my firstborn would alsoreceive a rattle.

(50:06):
That was not because, again,those rattles came in 1997.
You know, I was 20 years old,so like that, just you know.
So for me, in my mind's eye,like the gift of the rattle at
Weston's birth, did come as sucha surprise.
And so I think back on all ofthe boxes that were given to me

(50:32):
that I was present for and thatelement of surprise is actually
one of my favorite parts of eachgift that was given was not
expecting anything and then allof a sudden you pop present this
classic box because, as yousaid, they were all wrapped in

(50:55):
the same wrapping with thesehandwritten notes, and they've
always been a treasure.
They were a treasure then, butcertainly still deeply treasured
now.
You know, I have all of thosenotes, I have the boxes, I even
have the wrapping paper thatI've folded and tucked away.

(51:15):
And it wasn't until we reallyembarked on this journey that
I've realized how deeply uniquethat experience was.
That we were all given both asrecipients of the boxes and as
you Pop being tasked to be thekeeper of the boxes.

(51:37):
That, what mom did, these finalacts of love and being very
intentional, is an extraordinarygift.

Kellie (51:49):
One of the things that I love so much about what she did
, in addition to the element ofsurprise, was the individuality
of each gift, including thethree rattles that were all
different from one another, thatthe two of you chose and
selected together at a placethat was very precious and dear

(52:12):
and near to our family, but alsohow mom tapped into her
lifetime of innovation andingenuity and creativity and
uniqueness because those are allelements of who she was as a
human being to deliberatelycreate and design this legacy

(52:35):
that would allow her to not bethe picture in the bottom of a
drawer but to be an active andengaged part of all of our lives
, moving forward into the future, and that she would be able to
leave this token of love andconnection and appreciation to

(52:55):
our at least firstborn childrenthat I know unequivocally, all
of them carry in their hearts tothis day.
They feel her energy and herpresence through us, but also
through these treasured giftsthat they know about, you know,
that are part of now.
.
.
their family legacy.

(53:15):
It's really beautiful and itdoesn't surprise me at all that
Chris recognized the magnitudeof the story and felt so
strongly about if we werewilling to allow this story to
be told publicly for the firsttime, because it's always been

(53:36):
this sacred, cherished storywithin our own family, you know,
and the few other people whoknew about it.

Pop (53:45):
The other thing too, as you're talking, is that and I'm
only saying this is that as Ilook back on it, I become
emotional, which I didn't thinkabout, the totality of it, in
the sense that just the boxesand what was in the boxes, and
that they were surprises andsecret and all that and they
were given.
And this is just me and how Ifeel, how I feel so involved in

(54:06):
it, is that it could have beenthe fact that here are the boxes
, here's the list.
You could, and these things areto be given at these milestone
times as a surprise, whatever,but it was my impression from
her that they weren't just to begiven, but they were to be
given by me.
Because you could tell thisstory and it would be very

(54:29):
impactful, I think.
No matter how you want to lookat it, maybe it's not, but you
could tell the story of her withthe boxes, with the wrapping,
with the paper, with everythingelse, asking me as an individual
because she knew I'd pull itoff of saying, ok, be sure they
get these gifts at theseappropriate times.
But the emphasis was, not besure they get the gifts, which I

(54:53):
would promise would happen, butis YOU give the gifts.
In other words, it would havebeen very rewarding emotionally
to each of you if you would havegotten the gift by a trusted
friend of the family and saythis is from your mother and
your mother instructed you getthis gift at your birthday, but
that every one of them was basedon you.

(55:16):
You not only promised me thatthese gifts get to each of these
girls at these times, but YOUgive them to them, and I think
that was really meaningful to me, that that's what she wanted it
to go from me to you, ratherthan the gift, which is
wonderful.
You receive it from her, butyou receive it not from her

(55:40):
through somebody else, from herthrough me.
Yes, that's the way I've alwaysfelt about it and that's why it
was so.
I never gave thought to thefact that, well, now, let's see,
I gotta go time and get overhere to get there for that event
and I gotta you know which,which was sometimes difficult.
But I never thought of it fromthe sense well, let's see, you
know a really trusted friend,let's see lives there.

(56:02):
Why don't I just ship it tothem and say, be sure to get
this.
You know, that's a bigdifference from just saying be
sure the girls get these or thekids do, just saying be sure the
girls get these or the kids do.
So the different moments that Iremember.
Clearly I can remember givingand several of the places when I
gave the gifts.
Other people were there when Idid it.

(56:24):
I'm not saying this happened inall of them, but there were
other people there.

The Sisters (56:29):
Yeah.

Pop (56:30):
Like, for example, your wedding.
There were other people in theroom.
You were there, I think,weren't you?
I was, and I remember one ofthem was by the pool.
Was it your graduation fromhigh school?
Whatever, it was when we wereat the pool out at.

The Sisters (56:43):
That one was my 18th birthday.

Pop (56:45):
Was it.

Erin (56:46):
Yeah, at Kellie's.

Pop (56:47):
By the pool.
And there were other peoplethere but I don't remember all
of them enough to kind of reallysay this as the understanding.
But that last rattle therewasn't anybody there but you and
I, you know, because nobodyelse could get in there, because
it was the NICU.

Kellie (57:03):
The day you pulled your doctor card?

Erin (57:06):
He did to get into the NICU.

Pop (57:08):
I did.
Actually they didn't want to letme in.
Of course, the whole reasonthat I went in was not so much
to say, well, my daughter justhad the baby, and all that kind
of stuff.
My whole concept was that I wasgoing to be there and give that
box, but all of them wereemotional as much as the
emotions of each of youreceiving it, in the memories,

(57:30):
in the card, in the boxes.
They were emotional from thepoint of view of, as I look back
on it, maybe a bit ofexaggeration, I don't know, but
in my mind, looking back on it,I actually felt like I can say
this and it sounds weird.
I guess you know after the fact, but as though it was actually
Marsha handing me the box..
.
That sounds weird.

(57:51):
I don't know, I'm not some kindof a mystery writer, but I look
back on it.
I never felt like it wasn'tsort of me doing this and I
never said to you this is fromyour mom.
I don't think I ever said that.
I just bring the box out andhanded you the box.
I don't know.
That's in my mind.

Kellie (58:11):
I don't remember the exact words, but I know with
certainty that every time thebox showed up, we knew exactly
who it was coming through andwho it was coming from, without
words even really needing to besaid, and I think that that was

(58:33):
one of the most beautifulaspects of the experience.
It was very spiritual, veryenergetic.
Her presence was alwaysoverwhelming and it was
something that the two of youwere always doing together, from
the beginning of when sheshared the concept of the boxes

(58:56):
with you, your agreement toembark on this journey with her
even after she was gone.
And then, speaking to whatwe've already talked about in
depth of who you are as a humanbeing, because of your loyalty
and commitment and trust andcare and compassion and love, I

(59:18):
have no doubt in my mind thatshe had no doubt in her mind
exactly who she could trust tocarry out this very, very
important project.
Because of all the projects inher life in 47 years and she had
a lot of them, especially withleading the radio station and
forming the statewide networkand her work with NPR and all

(59:41):
the things that she did, all theprojects she was involved it
was the very last thing that shechose to do in her living.
That's really beautiful.

Pop (01:00:02):
I think you mentioned earlier about when the box
appeared and I was talking about, you know, I think I remember
saying that this is a box fromyour mom or whatever.
Think I ever remember sayingthat this is box from your mom
or whatever?
I don't think I really saidmuch of anything that the box
came out and it became apparentthat where this box came from,
you know, it wasn't sort of likesomebody had to say, oh, this
is a gift from your mom or, onher behalf, I want you to get

(01:00:25):
this.
I don't think that was everneeded to be said.
As soon as you saw the wrappers, you knew what it meant.
I think that's what you weresaying earlier too.
Yeah, yeah.
So I was trying to think of Ihaven't seen the wrapping for
years, but I recall that it was.
It was kind of I don't know ifthey had flowers or it was just
designs, but it was kind of aapricotty, pinkish wrapping,

(01:00:48):
wasn't it?
Kind of a floral look to it,but I don't know if there were
flowers had pigs on it, oh, didit.

The Sisters (01:00:56):
Okay, now yeah.

Kellie (01:00:58):
Of course it did.

Pop (01:01:00):
I didn't remember that, but yes.

Erin (01:01:03):
I have a picture of it.

Pop (01:01:06):
Yep, I would love to see that and I had.
I don't to this day.
I mean, honestly, I can say Isuspect when she and I were
sitting there talking about it,she didn't talk to me about the
wrapping paper, except that Iknew she wrapped them all in the
same and I'd seen the boxesfrom time to time, but I don't
ever remember there being pigson it.
I thought it was more likeflowers.
Maybe I just just forgot, youknow.

Erin (01:01:27):
No, but you were right.
It's that apricotty pink color.
It'll be fun for you to see it.
I have pictures.

Pop (01:01:38):
And I don't remember.
.
.
my mind's eye doesn't rememberthere being like wrapping
ribbons or anything.
It was just a box.
Was there a ribbon?

Erin (01:01:49):
No, no ribbons, Just the box, and then the little notes.

Pop (01:01:53):
And the item.

Erin (01:01:54):
And the item.

Kellie (01:01:56):
She loved her bows and I think she wanted to avoid the
bows so they didn't get allsmashed.
That's probably true.
Boxes just with wrapping couldbe stacked, but boxes with
ribbons had to be, you know,bubble wrapped Pop.
I have a question for you,because this story of the boxes

(01:02:22):
has always been so sacred to ourfamily, it's always been so
near and dear to our hearts andit has been shared, you know,
with friends and family over theyears and it's always been very
well received, and people oftenend up in tears when they hear
this story because it is sodeeply touching.

(01:02:43):
It's such an incredible act oflove and generosity and, again,
just very intentional, and thefact that she even had the
forethought to do this in theface of her own death is
extraordinary.

Erin (01:02:59):
But then something really extraordinary happened last
summer when Chris Howard heardthis story and, as a film and
television producer, to havethese thoughts that Kellie
referenced, referenced earlierof this is a story that needs to
be told.
This is a really inspirationalstory that needs to be shared,

(01:03:21):
and invited us to embark on thisjourney with him and to put a
story together about mom's lifeand love and this legacy, and so
it's been a really incredibleprocess, as we've unpacked so
much in telling this story aboutthe boxes.

(01:03:41):
But I would love to hear fromyou what your thoughts were when
you heard about this project,when Kellie and I told you that
we were given this opportunityto work with Chris and to bring
this story to the masses.
I would love to just hear abouthow that impacted you, how you

(01:04:03):
felt about that when you firstheard about the Boxes Project
with Chris.

Pop (01:04:08):
I think when I first heard it it was like, yeah, it makes
sense, it could be a good story.
I think when I first heard itit was like, yeah, it makes
sense, it could be a good storyTo me, it's so deep-seated,
emotional to me as the bigpicture of my relationship with
her, that to me it's such anintimate story.
Is how ow could you ever reallytell a story like this which so

(01:04:28):
many aspects of the story to meare so ethereal?
It's kind of like trying totell a story of a dream.
This is for me, you know,because how do you tell the
story of my feelings, of whenshe talked to me about the
concept, because I've told thisstory to some people.
Sometimes it comes out as well,that was real nice of her, but
it sounds like she's putting alot of undue pressure on you.

(01:04:50):
How would I tell a story ofwell, it wasn't just mechanical,
saying yeah, I'll do it, or ofher imposing on me?
I didn't feel that way.
The whole experience to me fromthe very beginning is it gets
kind of ethereal, and so for meto explain that to people I tell
the story, it's like how'ssomebody else going to tell the
story?

(01:05:10):
You know what I mean.
Oh, yeah, to me, the story tome is yeah, it's a great story
and everything else, but how areyou going to tell the story?
A little bit of how I feelabout the fact that, how are you
going to tell a story of a wisp, of a cloud kind of thing.

(01:05:33):
I don't know if you understandwhat I'm saying, it's just to me
.
It's like I mean, how can thatstory be told without being
schmaltzy or being, you know,too concrete, when it's nothing
from my point of view, that Ican kind of put my hands on any
of this stuff?
You know, you follow me.
Yeah, I'm sure it's hard tofollow, but so that's kind of
what I thought about early on,and then I got to think about a
bit more.
Well, I guess you just have toget the right person telling the

(01:05:54):
story, the writer or howeverit's done.
You know that kind of thing.
But I can tell you that peoplethat I've told it to, especially
when I've been able to tell thestory, some good friends of
mine that, hey, you know they'rethinking about probably putting
this together in some kind of abook or a documentary or a play
or a movie or whatever.
You know it sounds documentaryor play or a movie or whatever.

(01:06:15):
It sounds really cool actually,but how in the world are they
going to pull that off?
The way I feel about it right.

Kellie (01:06:18):
I think, if we're all realistic, we all think that
about the stories that we'reliving at the time that we're
living them, because it's justour reality, it's part of what
we do.
I'll give you an example.
Just last night, completelycoincidentally, because it
popped up on the movie screen,Netflix, Marcus and I turned on

(01:06:41):
Instant Family - veryappropriate given the
conversation that we're havingtoday.
The Mark Wahlberg movie.
It's about he and his wife, andthey choose to adopt three
foster children siblings.
Cute story, and it's based on atrue story, and our favorite
shows to watch are shows thatare based on real life

(01:07:04):
experiences, real journeys thatpeople take through life, the
emotions they feel, the thingsthat happen in the telling of
that story, the lessons that arelearned, the connections that
are made and the outcomes thatare achieved, the growth that
comes with them.
And so I have no idea what thiswill be or not be.

(01:07:27):
All I know right now is that welived an extraordinary gift of
an experience, which was thedelivery of the gift of the
boxes, thanks to mom and thanksto you, and it has inspired new
connections to incredible peoplethat we didn't know before,

(01:07:50):
people who have really beenastounded by what they've heard
through the telling of the story, and it's led Erin and I here
to the greatest connection andrelationship that I think we
have ever shared as sisters, andto the telling of other
people's stories of life, love,loss and legacy and what that

(01:08:14):
means to them and how they livethat out on a daily basis, the
journeys and experiences they'vegone through, and so to see all
of that come full circle.
No matter what the boxeseventually may or may not be,
they meant something to all ofus and in the end, that's what
truly matters.

Erin (01:08:36):
I couldn't agree with you more and we've said it before
and I will say it again todayand we will keep saying it is
that even with all of the gifts,of the boxes, the greatest gift
that she gave either of us iseach other, and as part of that,

(01:08:57):
she also gave us the gift ofpop and pop.
You just continue to give usthe gift of yourself, and you
were the keeper of these boxesand you did carry out an
extraordinary task.
But if I could wrap you up intothe same little box with the

(01:09:19):
same wrapping paper, I wouldunwrap it over and over and over
because you are such a gift.
Thank you for being our dad.

Pop (01:09:30):
Well, thank you very much.
A little on the lighter sideabout the same thing is it'd
really be hard to keep me in abox.

The Sisters (01:09:38):
Oh, we know it would be hard to keep you in a
box.

Kellie (01:09:44):
Well, as we come to a close today on this
extraordinary conversation, thisin and of itself has been an
absolute treasure and a gift,and it's impossible to take
conversations like this and putthem in a box with a pretty
little bow on top of them.
But you mean the world, notjust to the three of us, to the

(01:10:09):
seven of us adult children, theeight, the pieces of eight that
we all are.
Because I know Lori continuesto be grateful for you as her
father every single day and wecontinue to thank her for her
sacrifice in opening and pavinga way for us to have the
experience of being yourdaughters as well.

(01:10:30):
But all the grandchildren andall the great grandchildren we
celebrate, honor and look up toyou and look at you with
extraordinary gratitude everysingle day.
So thank you for being thekeeper of the boxes, but thank
you too for being the mostextraordinary father, the most
extraordinary girl dad any girlscould ever have.

(01:10:56):
But we're all very lucky andwe're all very grateful.
And I also wanted to read mom'smemorial card in full, because
we talked about this earlier.
Life is eternal and love isimmortal and death is only a
horizon and love is immortal anddeath is only a horizon and our

(01:11:33):
horizon is nothing save thelimit of our sight.
That's a more meaningfulconnection to our own.

The Sisters (01:11:50):
We hope today's conversation offered you insight
, encouragement or even just amoment to pause and reflect on
the story you're living and thelegacy you're creating.
If something in this episodemoved you, please consider
sharing it with someone you love.
A small share can make a bigimpact.
You can also join us onInstagram, facebook or LinkedIn
and connect further atthepigpodcastcom.

(01:12:13):
And if you're enjoying thispodcast, one of the most
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Your feedback helps us reachothers and reminds us why we do
this work, because The P-I-Gisn't just a podcast.
It's a place to remember that,even in the midst of grief, life

(01:12:35):
goes on, resilience matters andlove never leaves.
Thanks for being on thisjourney with us.
Until next time, hogs andkisses everyone!