June 10, 2025 • 38 mins
Season 1 - Episode 6 - BNI The Perfect 100 Podcast with Tammy Zurak
CliftonStrengths: Holli Margell
🎙 GUEST: Holli Margell - Director of Membership & Community Development
🌐 Website: https://www.holliwithani.com/
Contact: https://www.holliwithani.com/contact/
In this episode of BNI The Perfect 100, host Tammy Zurak sits down with Seattle-based photographer and 10-year BNI veteran Holli Margell to explore how consistent networking helped her business survive and thrive—even through COVID. Holli shares candid insights about learning the hard way why giving work away for free can backfire, and how she’s used the Gallup CliftonStrengths system to fine-tune her networking strategy and hit green on her BNI Power of One report.
Learn what helped Holli build lasting referral relationships, maintain one-to-ones, and transform BNI from just a meeting to a business lifeline. If you're looking to grow your business through networking and want real-life insights into how CliftonStrengths and BNI can supercharge your impact, this episode is a must-listen.
🎯 Topics Covered:
Why “The Cost of Free” matters in business
Surviving the pandemic as a creative entrepreneur
How BNI strengthened her confidence and consistency
Using CliftonStrengths for intentional growth
Strategies to increase your BNI Power of One score
👍 Like this episode? Don’t forget to hit the Like button, subscribe, and leave a comment with your biggest takeaway!
🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode of The Perfect 100.
🔗 Websites: https://bnitheperfect100.com/ ; www.tammyzurak.com
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🔗 LinkedIn: Tammy Zurak on LinkedIn
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Holly Margiel
03:40 The Role of BNI in Business Growth
04:07 Personal Growth Through Networking
07:01 Learning from Mistakes in Networking
11:05 Celebrating Wins in Business
13:05 Understanding CliftonStrengths
14:28 The Importance of Learning and Growth
19:10 Empathy in Business Relationships
19:10 Finding Fulfillment Through Creativity
19:10 Insights from Influential Figures
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:31):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Perfect 100 podcast.
I'm excited to bring a guest from outside my area today.
I want to welcome Holly Margell.
She is a photographer and she's based in the Seattle area.
So I'm going to let her tell us a little bit more.
Holly, tell us how long have you been a BNI member?
What chapter are you in and what seat do you hold?
(00:54):
Yeah, so I'm Holly Margell, based here in Seattle, Washington, and I'm a member of theWestside Professionals BNI chapter.
I've been a member for 10 years.
This is my 10th year.
And I am the portrait photographer in my chapter.
And we have leadership roles.
I've done all of them except VP.
And right now I've taken it easy.
(01:16):
I get to give the closing quote at the end of the meeting.
that's so funny.
have also, so Holly and I know each other through a photography, a worldwide photographygroup.
You may have heard me mention before, my first career, my first solopreneur career is aportrait photographer and I was a mentor, or still am a mentor in uh the portrait masters.
(01:41):
which is a worldwide photography organization that Holly is in.
And we have so many similarities.
We were portrait photographers.
We've been in BNI for 10 years.
And it's funny, you just said you've been everything but the VP and me too.
Yes, that's the hardest job.
Right?
Yeah, that's the one that is em you get to have your fingers and everything, but you alsohave to hold all the people accountable for all the things, which I'm perfectly OK with,
(02:07):
but it's just so much work.
I would rather apply the work to being, which I know you have as well, Ben, both you andyou also were part of BNI as a franchise and then part of BNI as a company owned regions.
And that's what happened here as well as we were the first.
five years of my BNI career essentially.
We were a franchise and then core company owned, bought the region.
(02:32):
So we were a part of them.
so I've been a chapter, well, back then it was structure consultant under the franchiseand the equivalent is chapter success coach.
And you've done the same, right?
Yes, yes.
So I was I was right in that cusp of the changeover and then also through COVID, right?
My business slowed way down and so it was a natural fit to step up and be part of the BNIuh leadership on the corporate side as that transition happened.
(03:00):
And then as soon as my business started getting busier, I was like I had to make a choice.
Where do I put my time?
And of course, my first love is photography.
So
Yeah, I was in that role long enough to really appreciate how much it takes to run BNI asan organization and really understand why things and systems are in place the way that
they are.
Yeah, it's, you know, I think for the average member who isn't involved at a higher level,uh being involved at the chapter level is amazing because it brings you so much more
(03:28):
visibility to all the things that you're doing, but it also allows you to have input, ifyou will, into kind of where things go and how things are done and how to make things
better.
um And we'll get to your strengths later.
But I think improvement is some of what you like to do in terms of your strengths, whichwe'll come back to when we get to that section here on the podcast.
(03:52):
But we're gonna roll into your 45 seconds.
I have a timer up on the screen if you're able to see.
I know not everybody is watching us, but some of us are listening.
But I'm gonna go ahead and start this and you go ahead and roll and stop when it's over.
All right.
Hello, my name is Holly Margell.
I'm a portrait photographer based in Seattle, Washington.
(04:13):
My ideal client is a busy business owner with a family.
For example, I recently worked with Laura and Doug.
own a construction company, which means their crew shifts and changes over the seasons.
And they have me come on site to do headshot portraits of their of their team members asit shifts.
And when their family needs a seasonal holiday card photo, they have me
(04:35):
work with them and their twin daughters.
If you know of someone like them, they have a busy, busy business, they're busy with theirteenage kids or younger children, and they need a photographer that can be their go-to,
I'm happy to be that person for them.
You can connect me by sharing my website with them, hollywithani.com.
(04:57):
Awesome.
All right.
So this is the perfect 100.
So we're going to roll over and have a look at your power of one.
So looks pretty good to me.
We always are looking for green is ideally what a member who's trying to get the most outof their membership has.
(05:18):
Right.
So I will for the folks that are only listening and not watching, I will read across forthem.
So your total score is 70 in the green.
You have 98 % attendance for 20 points.
You have, I'm not gonna read all the numbers, I'll just read the highlights.
For referrals per week, you have 10 points in the red.
Visitors per week, have zero points in the gray.
(05:41):
One-to-ones, you have 20 points in the green.
And CEUs per week, you have 20 points in the green.
So, looking at all those different areas, what do you find is the easiest for you?
What comes most natural for you?
Yeah, so it's kind of a tie, right?
The easiest for me would be uh CEUs and one-to-ones.
(06:02):
I find that one-to-ones help me always uh keep top of mind of like when or what kind ofreferrals are best for folks.
And I would say that the CEUs have been really helpful.
They're easy for me to slip into my schedule so that I'm constantly thinking about how tobe a better BNI member.
Yeah, and I'm not surprised again, because I'll hint to your CliftonStrengths.
(06:24):
uh CEs is probably something that you enjoy based on what your assessment returned, andwe'll talk about that later.
uh Let's also roll over, to the personal palms report.
So that breaks it down a little bit more and I've got it on my screen to the left.
So I'm going to look over here.
So it has tracked, looks like about 24 weeks of activity.
(06:48):
so you, if anyone listening as a member, you're ever curious, did that thing I did get putinto the system or did I get credit for it?
Maybe you're, you feel like you're missing something.
You can always go to the personal palms report and have a look and see what was recordedeach week.
And that assumes that your vice president has processed the reports in a timely fashion.
(07:09):
But you have um all presents and just one sub, so zero absences.
Referrals given inside, 17.
Referrals given outside, 12.
That's amazing.
Referrals received inside, 16.
And referrals received outside, 11.
I want to pause to ask because I don't know your chapter.
Tell me about how big is your chapter and how long have they been around?
(07:34):
Yeah, so our chapter is over 20 years old.
And so we have a lot of like really good solid long time members.
But things you know, of course, shift and change.
We we kind of fluctuate in member numbers.
I'd say we're probably at 26 right now.
And when I first joined the chapter, we were at 47.
And I got to say, COVID really hit us in our region really hard for our all of ourchapters in our area.
(07:59):
So we're
constantly in this point of rebuilding, kind of recovering from the pandemic, really.
Yeah, you and again, we're kind of, I don't know, like I feel like we're living parallellives here.
My chapter that I was in right before the Panzhameck hit, we were over, I think we were at41.
And then, yeah, we went to virtual, which the good news was is there was a sub, thestructure had already been built for us.
(08:25):
There was some forethinking that we're an international networking.
um
unit we should be able to be online and connect to each other so that sort of foundationhad already been laid and when COVID hit and everybody went home and you know we weren't
going to meet in person anymore they flipped a switch and everybody was on zoom within aweek or two I believe and we went to online in the chapter I was in at the time and over
(08:49):
the course of the year in I forget how many months it was but let's I think we went homeand
March and we went back in October of the following year and I came back as the presidentand I think you did too, is that right?
A little bit like on the tail end.
Actually we um I think I was the second year post pandemic president, because it was itwasn't.
(09:12):
It's.
The year previous to this one.
Yeah.
then we had everybody, think it was a challenge to a lot of people suffered, right?
As the pandemic kind of took a lot of people out of, you know, the opportunity.
And you and I were both, I was a portrait photographer at the time and we followed therules for salons because we did hair and makeup.
(09:33):
So we had to close down for nine weeks.
And so that was really hard.
And I really depended on my chapter to help support me through that because without
any opportunity to really work, um had to be building for when we were able to start upagain and able to survive that because of VNI really.
(09:53):
All right, so let's go into the rest of it here.
So we've got visitors three.
One to one's 42, 42 one to ones over a 24 week period.
Sounds like a good number to me.
And then thank you for close business.
You've given, and this is the number, if you're looking at this report, is what you'vegiven, not what you've received.
(10:13):
$17,268 and 51 CEUs.
So you've given a lot and it looks like you've also received a lot, almost kind of anequal measure.
One hand gives and one hand receives.
So.
What have you found has been your success in being able to deliver for yourself and forthe others in your chapter?
Yeah, so I think it's like really maintaining relationships and um being sure that Iunderstand what my fellow BNI members are after in their business goals.
(10:42):
em And you learn over the years, right?
As a, I wouldn't say a 10 year member, you've, really seasoned.
You kind of get what people's idea referrals are if you've been in the same group.
And then continuing those one-to-ones, I think that's the biggest secret sauce in BNI islike, if you just continue to go through your roster and also
expand outside your chapter and meet with the other members in the other chapter, that canhelp you continue to grow and expand your business community.
(11:10):
completely agree.
I built my business on not only being in my chapter, which and I actually didn't completethat thought, is we were 40 something and when we came back from COVID back to in-person,
we were 21.
So we had a lot of growing to do, which we did over that next year and a half.
got back into the 40s, but it's a process.
Yeah, it was an interesting time, but the great thing was is we weathered the storm.
(11:36):
Mm-hmm.
uh When you think about or look back over the 10 years in BNI, really impacted you themost?
What about your membership was most helpful to you, do think?
Yeah, well, I really credit my BNI chapter and experience as really helping me grow up asa business owner.
And I say that because, I wasn't growing up when I joined.
(11:58):
was, I think I was 33 at the time, but it was like the first time I'd gone all in onmyself for a business.
And I went in feeling very shy, butterflies in my stomach, you know, not in my throat,just talking about myself in front of people to now today at the drop of a hat, I can give
my, you know,
elevator pitch like it's no big deal because I know it so well and I've just built up thatconfidence.
(12:20):
You know, I think that's something that people don't realize is the repetition reallycounts.
The consistency really counts.
So I would say be and I helped me grow up as a business owner and then also just havingthat support network.
And I don't mean it like a support group.
mean, having knowledge and connection to other business owners.
mean, you know, like the auto shop in my chapter, we are very different people runningvery different businesses, but hearing her journey and how she's
(12:45):
doing and managing like has really encouraged me.
I, it's like, I, I teeter that that line of like, do I call them my business family or doI call them my, my business support group?
They're, they're kind of a mix of the two.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's great to have colleagues that get you and understand and ride the ups and downswith you and are there for all the things.
(13:08):
So that's amazing.
Have you ever made any mistakes in networking that you felt like you learned somethingfrom?
(13:30):
yes, of course.
You know, one of the things that I first did that I regret, but also I don't regretbecause I learned from it was a couple of people had suggested to me, you these were other
business owners in my chapter and they give me advice based on what the previousphotographer had done.
And so I thought, well, I'm just going to give it a try.
And that was giving things away for free.
(13:51):
You know, I'm a very generous hearted person and I will help people out as best I can.
but giving things away for free or at a ridiculous price point where I can't even coverthe babysitter and the food and beverages, that was a big mistake.
um I did that because they're like, well, the past photographer did this, you should dothis too.
And I thought, okay, you know, why not give it a try?
(14:12):
That cost me, it cost me a couple of different ways.
One, so I did like a headshot happy hour where I charged hardly anything.
It gave me a great opportunity to really show what I could do, I really, you know, I didhave, we have two children at the time that needed a sitter.
My husband was out of town, so I had to pay the babysitter.
(14:33):
had, you know, I brought food and beverages, like snacks and nibbles, and I did not breakeven.
It was not good.
And then what that did, which I also want to share here for any photographers listening inis,
you know, when a photographer, one of those business owners came back to me and said, Hey,I'd love to have you come do headshots for my company.
was like, great.
Here are, here's my package, my quote.
(14:55):
She's like, why does it cost so much?
You only charge this much at this event.
And I was like, Oh, well, that's not my usual rate.
did that as a favor because it was recommended.
Right, yeah, that's a, and I think it's probably not only photographers, right?
is when we come in, I think there are a lot of different businesses that maybe foodservice, catering.
(15:17):
em People want to test it out, let's see, you could do it, and that's a common, becauseI've been a mentor in the photography group for 10 years, uh that's a common thing that
people ask photographers to work for free.
And I don't know why that is.
don't know, you know, it's like, well, everybody has a phone and you push a button andthat you're, you know, you can take pictures, but that's not what a photographer does.
(15:44):
So, you know, there's a, I appreciate that learning that there is value always to what youoffer.
And lots of folks in BNI offer a discount to fellow BNI members.
And I think that's fine, you know, cause that's, we're helping each other out if youchoose to do that, but giving it away for free.
is generally not always the best route em because of all the reasons you just said.
(16:07):
So thanks for sharing that.
How about your biggest win in BNI?
What's been your biggest win?
Yeah, so my biggest win.
this is a story I love sharing.
I, you know, as business owners, we set different goals for ourselves.
In 2019, I was on a family road trip and we were driving through the countryside and mykids were noticing all these billboards.
It was not the first time they had seen billboards, but because it was such a rural area,there was hardly anything to look at.
(16:31):
They noticed them more.
And I realized, wow, a couple of things.
One, some of these photographs of people were terrible.
Yes.
uh billboards, while they seem archaic, are actually a really effective way of marketingand getting in front of people.
And so when I returned the next week and visited my BNI chapter regular weekly meeting, Isaid to the chapter, said, an ideal referral for me is the business owner who's ready to
(16:56):
put their face on a billboard to represent their company.
I want to be their photographer.
Well, last year I got to be that photographer.
nice.
in my chapter who was in that meeting, who's a really long standing member.
And it just gave me so much pride.
know, granted the only people seeing this are those driving that specific road, seeingthat billboard, but it was just so exciting to be like, I got a portrait on a billboard.
(17:21):
I did it.
It feels, there's a sense of pride, I think, when you see something you've created uh upfor all the world to notice.
And I think we forget sometimes that no matter what we do, there is something that we'vegiven, and that's kind of like the giver's game thing, No matter what our profession,
(17:42):
we're giving something of tangible value to someone else.
in our you know as a photographer you can see it which is great because it's up there forthe world but you know it's amazing when you ask for and receive what you had a dream to
put together and there it was so love that all right so let's roll over to the clifton'sstrengths we will
(18:08):
go through what your top five are.
we have, you have a few that we have not heard from yet on the podcast.
So I'm excited to hear about that.
So you have Learner So you have a great desire to learn and want to continuously improvethe process of learning rather than the outcome excites you.
(18:30):
That's your number one.
Your number two is strategic.
You create alternative ways to proceed.
Faced with any given scenario, you can quickly spot the relevant patterns and issues.
Number three is empathy.
You can sense other people's feelings by imagining yourself in others' lives orsituations.
Number four is developer.
(18:50):
You recognize and cultivate the potential in others.
You spot the signs of each small improvement and derive satisfaction from
evidence of progress and number five is achiever.
You work hard and possess a great deal of stamina.
You take immense satisfaction in being busy and productive.
(19:11):
So have you taken any type of assessments before,
I have, but not this specific one.
Okay, awesome.
So what about it was most interesting to you, I guess?
Yeah, so I'm not surprised by the top three at all.
I think the developer part I was surprised by, I shouldn't be when I reflected on itbecause I think it kind of comes naturally.
(19:35):
Parenting, you can learn these skills.
But yeah, that did surprise me a little bit.
Okay, awesome.
and so you have, I mentioned earlier, you have things that others that we haven't had alearner yet.
And so I'm curious to hear a little bit more from someone who is a learner.
And my learner, I think I'm at 18 on learner.
(19:55):
So it's not my top thing, um but it's...
learner for a lot of people uh is an opportunity to improve, right?
They want to learn more, seek things out so they can be better.
How does that play out for you?
Yeah, so I always love learning new things.
um And how that shows up for me is, uh let's see, I think really as a business owner, oneof the things I was able to identify pretty quickly, I would say in like the first three
(20:26):
years of business, was that I really wanted to give myself, uh I guess, assignment everyyear, like something new that I wanted to learn or master before I found something else to
focus on.
So here I am running my business.
but I also wanted to level up an area.
So for example, that those first like, think year three in business, I took a class on SEOso I could improve my ranking for my website.
(20:49):
And then the following year it was like, I'm gonna learn social media marketing.
So I took a class on that.
So I'm constantly looking for opportunities to learn for my business benefit and then alsoin my personal life, right?
So I um organized, I was a member of a Pea Patch, which is a community garden space.
I was able to coordinate a tree pruning class, even though I don't have any at that time.
(21:12):
I had no trees, but I knew I wanted trees, but I knew I needed to take care of them.
Yeah.
you have enough information?
Because learner is not necessarily focused on the outcome, but more about, you know, kindof getting the information.
So how do know when you've learned enough?
when I feel competent to do the thing.
Yeah, yeah, I don't need to like become an expert in everything, but I need to feelcomfortable moving forward, doing the thing.
(21:40):
Okay, awesome.
And looking at the ones that are there, what do you feel like maybe you could lean moreinto to help you in BNI and your business, so on?
Yeah, so I think strategy is actually something that came up for me.
It was something I realized I wanted to put more intention around this year.
also like, you know, like I said, I set goals and areas to learn.
(22:03):
think when I hear the word strategy, I tend to think about um boring checklists.
Hahaha!
oh
And I picked up a book by Seth Godin called This Is Strategy and began that as well.
he talks about, know, strategy is actually a lot bigger than a series of checklists.
It incorporates many things.
(22:24):
And so I think that how that would show up for me as a BNI member is being more strategicin how I, my area for most growth, uh the area of my weakness in BNI is inviting visitors.
So just getting comfortable with like, what's my strategy for inviting visitors, right?
Because we can't control whether or not they show up, but we can control how many weinvite.
(22:45):
Yes, for sure.
Yeah, and we didn't get to that part or I didn't ask that question when we were looking atyour Power One, but that was the one area where you didn't have color.
oh So I love that you're applying that to that.
(23:14):
m
know, strategic is my number one, but it's interesting because the five things you have inthe top, and I always do this whenever I bring this up, is they blend together uniquely
for you.
So it's your, there's a DNA strand if you look at, and for those that are seeing me on thescreen, there's a DNA strand at the top of, when you do the full 34, they have that, or if
(23:37):
you go on Gallup's website, you see that, because it's your unique set of things, and how,if you have,
your strategic plays out differently for you than mine does for me.
And I am, I'll make a list, but I'm not married to a list.
I'm more about the strategy for me is how to uh solve a problem, right?
(23:59):
As I can immediately, my brain just ticks through and I'm sure you probably have some ofthat too, where you tick through a whole bunch and I think yours probably, and you can
tell me, but because you acquire knowledge through learning, um maybe you,
set the strategy and then learn some more information and then apply it.
And I don't know how that works for you.
(24:19):
Maybe you can tell me.
Yeah, so I haven't.
So again, I when I when I think about the word strategy and what it means to me, I havebeen holding it as something that's a little bit more checklist oriented, systems
oriented, and I find those to be boring.
And so I think for me, strategy is more of an intuitive process that where, you know, I'mlearning new things, I'm applying those new lessons, I'm shifting how I do things.
(24:46):
So I didn't like consciously think of using strategy.
I thought of it as more of
I'm evolving and improving how I do things.
Sure.
Are you, do you hold a position within the chapter itself?
Not at this time.
I mean, I have a, I would say that one of those fun roles.
So I get to do the closing quote, which I am applying a strategy to.
(25:08):
I plan them out every month ahead of time.
So there's a little strategy there.
Gotcha.
um Well, and you also have empathy.
Do you consider yourself an emotional person?
Okay.
How do you think that that kind of colors how you have relationships with people in BNI orin your business?
I know in your business, because I know, you we did similar similar types of things thatphotography and empathy for me are hand in hand because you to in order to connect with
(25:37):
somebody, you know, it's better when you have
high empathy because it's a very vulnerable position for people.
Most people, they're fine with you, hold your phone up and take it.
Well, some of them are fine when you hold up your phone and take a picture, but when itcomes to an actual photo shoot, it creates a whole different set of things.
(25:58):
So I believe that's gonna be a great aid to you naturally, but how about in business?
How does that work for you in terms of BNI?
Yeah, so in BNI, know, the empathy piece, right?
I really care about people, how they're doing, not just what their business does.
I care a lot about people being successful and taking care of, you know, we're all inbusiness to take care of our families and ourselves, right?
(26:21):
And so I care very deeply about people.
Sometimes I have to check that though, because, you know, there's some boundaries, right?
Around like, oh, I care about this person.
I see them kind of making some mistakes here, but it's not my...
not my place to call it out, but rather notice and don't focus on that.
And then, you know, I really care about our chapter growing, right?
(26:44):
After COVID, it shifted and changed.
But I also know that I can only do my part and everyone else has to do theirs.
So I probably care more than the average, but I don't know because I don't start myone-to-ones out to be like, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you really care about me?
Right?
I don't have those conversations.
Yeah.
just is part of the fabric of who you are.
(27:07):
And I don't my empathy is number twenty seven.
So, know, people when you when you see the full list, you're thinking to yourself, oh,that sounds bad.
My empathy is low.
Right.
But it's not that I don't have empathy.
You know, I do have empathy.
I just don't that's not my go to at the top at the top of the list is
(27:28):
I lead with other things and pull that out when it's necessary for me because it's justnot the first thing.
uh
yeah, and I would say that I have been told several times while having one-to-ones, peoplewill be like, wow, you'd make a really great therapist.
I'm like, I don't want to be a therapist.
They're too empathetic.
That's not...
(27:50):
Yes, yeah.
goes along with empathy is there's a for some people, they can be perceived as a softertouch, so to speak.
Great.
Do you feel like that in any way?
Like how do you combat, and that's not necessarily the right word, combat, us being a softtouch is often a good thing, but is there, how do you play that into being a leader in
(28:12):
what you do in business?
Yeah, well, I think it really has to do with being, you know, I'd say growing up, right,and being more self aware of what serves me and what doesn't serve me, like really
learning when it's my place or not my place to ask personal questions.
So as a BNI leader, I might be far more gentle in terms of my communication style.
(28:34):
And I also think that that's where strategy has maybe come up for me as well, where Ididn't realize it, where I think, OK, I need to call someone on
being more accountable, and it's gonna serve all of us better, even though I feel really,really bad speaking up to that.
Yes, well, and that's a blind spot for some people with that high level of empathy is theydon't want to, right?
(28:58):
Because it makes them feel bad and it makes everybody feel bad.
And you take that on for yourself where someone else might just say, it's just what weneed to do in order for things to be better.
So it's good to have that recognition, but it's also good, you said something in there,for me,
(29:19):
when you're building your chapter, need that diversity of things.
You need people who have different talents.
when I was the president, I had a vice president and a secretary treasurer who had verydifferent strengths from me.
And that was a good thing, right?
Because I'm going to go hard charging into strategy number one, maximizer in my top.
(29:41):
command, all the things.
So I know I need that empathy person.
I need that harmony person.
I need that Includer person on my team because we all need to work together because theysometimes need to pull me back and say, wait, you're, you know, but you have Achiever high
also your Achiever was number five and I'm number 10 and Achiever works all the time andyou know, wants to
(30:08):
get there, right?
Let's get there, do the thing.
And not everybody else has that either.
So it's amazing when you look at across your BNI chapter, it is, if you were all exactlythe same, you probably wouldn't be as successful.
And that helps you as your business too, right?
It's because you can, with those things, especially if you work alone or just with a smallteam in your business, it gives you other resources to, that you can trust, right?
(30:33):
Know, like, and trust that you have that support team behind you that
maybe you bring a problem from your business to someone else that has a different set ofstrengths that you could bounce those things off of and they can give you different
feedback, which is amazing.
All right, so what one piece of advice would you give to somebody who wanted to build astronger referral network?
You've been in all the different positions.
(30:55):
What have you seen from your purview that would help people build things in your 10 yearsof experience?
Yeah, so I think recognizing that building relationships takes time, just like in yourpersonal life.
So in your business life, the same holds true.
to really, and this is my uh empathy part showing up, like, recognize that people aren'tjust here to be transactional, right?
(31:20):
We're motivated by being in relationship with each other.
So take the time, don't rush it, and understand that.
you know, we're all entering into relationships from a different perspective.
So we might, you you might need to have coffee with somebody five times before you get atransaction from that relationship.
Whereas someone else, in two achievers meeting, they might be ready to go to passreferrals that first meeting.
(31:46):
Right, that's awesome.
love that.
And what one thing have you done or what kinds of, how do you structure your businessthat's unique and different to you that helps you stand out from others and get more
referrals?
Yeah, so I think it's I think the piece that's maybe different.
don't think it's that different, though, in our industry of photography, but reallyhelping people feel good.
(32:11):
Right.
So the number one thing people say after they work with me is, wow, I feel so much better.
I was so stressed beforehand.
And then giving them that good feeling, that good experience that returns customers orthat returns referrals to me.
So I recognize that right away.
um It wasn't.
It wasn't like a strategy leading into it.
It just happened naturally.
(32:33):
So recognizing like, do you, how do you make people feel?
And then hold space for that, that whatever that needs to be, you know, if you're a bankeror you're an insurance broker, it might be that you're responsive and you communicate
well.
And then for me, I need to communicate well, but also I help people feel good aboutthemselves.
it goes back to that vulnerability that we talked about earlier is if people don't feelsafe or comfortable, they're not gonna have a good time.
(32:58):
And you want them to feel, walk out feeling energized and better about what theyexperienced than what they probably came into with the expectation of feeling
uncomfortable, but leaving feeling amazing.
So that's, I love that.
ah What's next for you?
What are you working on?
What areas are you growing in personally, professionally?
Yeah, so I mean, following that thread of the learner, right?
(33:20):
My number one trait there.
Something that I realized two years ago was that um I wasn't consistently feelingfulfilled from my work.
And what I mean by that is I need more novelty.
And so I am an artist.
Of course, all of my creative energy was focused on my business.
So I've made more intentional space to get creative.
(33:42):
I did a self-portrait series, for example.
I know I'm not the first photographer to do that.
Many, many.
Photographers have done that.
And that has led into me really uh digging into my family history.
I'm a citizen of the Eastern Shawnee tribe of Oklahoma.
And so I started to show up more in the creative space representing my tribal nation.
uh And I had did my first artist residency last year.
(34:03):
So I'm looking for more opportunities in that area, which has nothing to do with mybusiness.
But also, I mean, they go hand in hand, right?
As my creative heart and cup get filled, then uh my business energy stays high.
That's amazing.
And I was just looking to see, I feel like that falls into somewhere in your uh top fivestrengths is kind of having that.
(34:24):
And I think that's part of that learner piece is knowing where you come from and digginginto that culture probably has some significance from your learner perspective is, you
know, that's a big piece of who we are in understanding, you know, where we're going andall of those things.
So I love that.
ah
So I also want to tell people that Holly has a podcast and I went on her page and she hadan interview with the famous Ivan Meisner and I learned a whole bunch of new things that
(34:56):
it was not the same kind of, it's called the Career Spotlight Podcast and we'll drop alink below for anyone that wants to go and listen to that but.
um What was something you pulled?
He told you a whole bunch of stuff that nobody has heard about and was interesting.
It wasn't necessarily, um it was more about his foundational, you know, I think that'swhat you're digging into with everybody is how they got to where they are.
(35:20):
So what was the thing that surprised you most from that interview?
Yeah, so I think one of the things you know, when you hear Dr.
Ivan Meisner, anybody who's been in BNI for even a year, they know that like, wow, this isthe this is the guy, right?
He's the person who started everything.
And, you know, we hear about all of his expertise and his trainings and his books and hispodcast.
What was great was really learning where he came from.
(35:42):
Right.
Maybe that's my learner.
But I found it fascinating.
And that's the whole point of our podcast is to figure out how people got to where theyare in their career path.
And um I find a lot of inspiration hearing about people's journeys.
So Dr.
Ivenmeiser did not come from a lot of money or anything like that.
He really was somebody who built his own success.
(36:09):
I don't think we hear that.
It doesn't come up naturally in his podcast or the books.
And I mean, maybe little hints of it, but to hear where he came from was very helpful.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm it was appeasing your learner, learning all those things about him.
But also just very interesting because I love to know people's journey to success too.
(36:31):
And I feel like as a business coach and why I wanted to get certified for CliftonStrengthsis these are all clues to future things for me.
I have a high futuristic and I like to look down the road and see.
that's kind of a past journey, but it also helps you to see,
how did they get there, right?
(36:51):
As what were the pieces that made them who they are?
So I enjoy that as well.
So I have one last question is what was the most impactful thing for you today that wetalked about?
Yeah, well, I really love how you really put a magnifying glass on the power of one aswell as the Palms Report and then talk about the Clifton results, right?
(37:14):
And like, where are you with that and how do you put them, I guess, together, right?
And leverage those strengths.
So I really appreciate that because I think as a member in VNI, I think like five, sixyears ago when corporate took over, it was a new thing for us.
So we didn't know how to interpret it.
And it's been confusing ever since.
So ah I appreciate you sharing that and really explaining how that might show up as moreeffective BNI member.
(37:43):
Awesome.
All right.
And so we're almost at the end here.
em I want to thank you for being a guest.
And if you're listening here today, em if you enjoyed what you heard and want to hearmore, be sure to like, subscribe, share, comment, all the things that helps other members
find us.
And thank you for being here on the Perfect 100 Podcast.
(38:04):
Thank you so much.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Perfect 100 podcast.
I'm excited to bring a guest from outside my area today.
I want to welcome Holly Margell.
She is a photographer and she's based in the Seattle area.
So I'm going to let her tell us a little bit more.
Holly, tell us how long have you been a BNI member?
What chapter are you in and what seat do you hold?
(00:54):
Yeah, so I'm Holly Margell, based here in Seattle, Washington, and I'm a member of theWestside Professionals BNI chapter.
I've been a member for 10 years.
This is my 10th year.
And I am the portrait photographer in my chapter.
And we have leadership roles.
I've done all of them except VP.
And right now I've taken it easy.
(01:16):
I get to give the closing quote at the end of the meeting.
that's so funny.
have also, so Holly and I know each other through a photography, a worldwide photographygroup.
You may have heard me mention before, my first career, my first solopreneur career is aportrait photographer and I was a mentor, or still am a mentor in uh the portrait masters.
(01:41):
which is a worldwide photography organization that Holly is in.
And we have so many similarities.
We were portrait photographers.
We've been in BNI for 10 years.
And it's funny, you just said you've been everything but the VP and me too.
Yes, that's the hardest job.
Right?
Yeah, that's the one that is em you get to have your fingers and everything, but you alsohave to hold all the people accountable for all the things, which I'm perfectly OK with,
(02:07):
but it's just so much work.
I would rather apply the work to being, which I know you have as well, Ben, both you andyou also were part of BNI as a franchise and then part of BNI as a company owned regions.
And that's what happened here as well as we were the first.
five years of my BNI career essentially.
We were a franchise and then core company owned, bought the region.
(02:32):
So we were a part of them.
so I've been a chapter, well, back then it was structure consultant under the franchiseand the equivalent is chapter success coach.
And you've done the same, right?
Yes, yes.
So I was I was right in that cusp of the changeover and then also through COVID, right?
My business slowed way down and so it was a natural fit to step up and be part of the BNIuh leadership on the corporate side as that transition happened.
(03:00):
And then as soon as my business started getting busier, I was like I had to make a choice.
Where do I put my time?
And of course, my first love is photography.
So
Yeah, I was in that role long enough to really appreciate how much it takes to run BNI asan organization and really understand why things and systems are in place the way that
they are.
Yeah, it's, you know, I think for the average member who isn't involved at a higher level,uh being involved at the chapter level is amazing because it brings you so much more
(03:28):
visibility to all the things that you're doing, but it also allows you to have input, ifyou will, into kind of where things go and how things are done and how to make things
better.
um And we'll get to your strengths later.
But I think improvement is some of what you like to do in terms of your strengths, whichwe'll come back to when we get to that section here on the podcast.
(03:52):
But we're gonna roll into your 45 seconds.
I have a timer up on the screen if you're able to see.
I know not everybody is watching us, but some of us are listening.
But I'm gonna go ahead and start this and you go ahead and roll and stop when it's over.
All right.
Hello, my name is Holly Margell.
I'm a portrait photographer based in Seattle, Washington.
(04:13):
My ideal client is a busy business owner with a family.
For example, I recently worked with Laura and Doug.
own a construction company, which means their crew shifts and changes over the seasons.
And they have me come on site to do headshot portraits of their of their team members asit shifts.
And when their family needs a seasonal holiday card photo, they have me
(04:35):
work with them and their twin daughters.
If you know of someone like them, they have a busy, busy business, they're busy with theirteenage kids or younger children, and they need a photographer that can be their go-to,
I'm happy to be that person for them.
You can connect me by sharing my website with them, hollywithani.com.
(04:57):
Awesome.
All right.
So this is the perfect 100.
So we're going to roll over and have a look at your power of one.
So looks pretty good to me.
We always are looking for green is ideally what a member who's trying to get the most outof their membership has.
(05:18):
Right.
So I will for the folks that are only listening and not watching, I will read across forthem.
So your total score is 70 in the green.
You have 98 % attendance for 20 points.
You have, I'm not gonna read all the numbers, I'll just read the highlights.
For referrals per week, you have 10 points in the red.
Visitors per week, have zero points in the gray.
(05:41):
One-to-ones, you have 20 points in the green.
And CEUs per week, you have 20 points in the green.
So, looking at all those different areas, what do you find is the easiest for you?
What comes most natural for you?
Yeah, so it's kind of a tie, right?
The easiest for me would be uh CEUs and one-to-ones.
(06:02):
I find that one-to-ones help me always uh keep top of mind of like when or what kind ofreferrals are best for folks.
And I would say that the CEUs have been really helpful.
They're easy for me to slip into my schedule so that I'm constantly thinking about how tobe a better BNI member.
Yeah, and I'm not surprised again, because I'll hint to your CliftonStrengths.
(06:24):
uh CEs is probably something that you enjoy based on what your assessment returned, andwe'll talk about that later.
uh Let's also roll over, to the personal palms report.
So that breaks it down a little bit more and I've got it on my screen to the left.
So I'm going to look over here.
So it has tracked, looks like about 24 weeks of activity.
(06:48):
so you, if anyone listening as a member, you're ever curious, did that thing I did get putinto the system or did I get credit for it?
Maybe you're, you feel like you're missing something.
You can always go to the personal palms report and have a look and see what was recordedeach week.
And that assumes that your vice president has processed the reports in a timely fashion.
(07:09):
But you have um all presents and just one sub, so zero absences.
Referrals given inside, 17.
Referrals given outside, 12.
That's amazing.
Referrals received inside, 16.
And referrals received outside, 11.
I want to pause to ask because I don't know your chapter.
Tell me about how big is your chapter and how long have they been around?
(07:34):
Yeah, so our chapter is over 20 years old.
And so we have a lot of like really good solid long time members.
But things you know, of course, shift and change.
We we kind of fluctuate in member numbers.
I'd say we're probably at 26 right now.
And when I first joined the chapter, we were at 47.
And I got to say, COVID really hit us in our region really hard for our all of ourchapters in our area.
(07:59):
So we're
constantly in this point of rebuilding, kind of recovering from the pandemic, really.
Yeah, you and again, we're kind of, I don't know, like I feel like we're living parallellives here.
My chapter that I was in right before the Panzhameck hit, we were over, I think we were at41.
And then, yeah, we went to virtual, which the good news was is there was a sub, thestructure had already been built for us.
(08:25):
There was some forethinking that we're an international networking.
um
unit we should be able to be online and connect to each other so that sort of foundationhad already been laid and when COVID hit and everybody went home and you know we weren't
going to meet in person anymore they flipped a switch and everybody was on zoom within aweek or two I believe and we went to online in the chapter I was in at the time and over
(08:49):
the course of the year in I forget how many months it was but let's I think we went homeand
March and we went back in October of the following year and I came back as the presidentand I think you did too, is that right?
A little bit like on the tail end.
Actually we um I think I was the second year post pandemic president, because it was itwasn't.
(09:12):
It's.
The year previous to this one.
Yeah.
then we had everybody, think it was a challenge to a lot of people suffered, right?
As the pandemic kind of took a lot of people out of, you know, the opportunity.
And you and I were both, I was a portrait photographer at the time and we followed therules for salons because we did hair and makeup.
(09:33):
So we had to close down for nine weeks.
And so that was really hard.
And I really depended on my chapter to help support me through that because without
any opportunity to really work, um had to be building for when we were able to start upagain and able to survive that because of VNI really.
(09:53):
All right, so let's go into the rest of it here.
So we've got visitors three.
One to one's 42, 42 one to ones over a 24 week period.
Sounds like a good number to me.
And then thank you for close business.
You've given, and this is the number, if you're looking at this report, is what you'vegiven, not what you've received.
(10:13):
$17,268 and 51 CEUs.
So you've given a lot and it looks like you've also received a lot, almost kind of anequal measure.
One hand gives and one hand receives.
So.
What have you found has been your success in being able to deliver for yourself and forthe others in your chapter?
Yeah, so I think it's like really maintaining relationships and um being sure that Iunderstand what my fellow BNI members are after in their business goals.
(10:42):
em And you learn over the years, right?
As a, I wouldn't say a 10 year member, you've, really seasoned.
You kind of get what people's idea referrals are if you've been in the same group.
And then continuing those one-to-ones, I think that's the biggest secret sauce in BNI islike, if you just continue to go through your roster and also
expand outside your chapter and meet with the other members in the other chapter, that canhelp you continue to grow and expand your business community.
(11:10):
completely agree.
I built my business on not only being in my chapter, which and I actually didn't completethat thought, is we were 40 something and when we came back from COVID back to in-person,
we were 21.
So we had a lot of growing to do, which we did over that next year and a half.
got back into the 40s, but it's a process.
Yeah, it was an interesting time, but the great thing was is we weathered the storm.
(11:36):
Mm-hmm.
uh When you think about or look back over the 10 years in BNI, really impacted you themost?
What about your membership was most helpful to you, do think?
Yeah, well, I really credit my BNI chapter and experience as really helping me grow up asa business owner.
And I say that because, I wasn't growing up when I joined.
(11:58):
was, I think I was 33 at the time, but it was like the first time I'd gone all in onmyself for a business.
And I went in feeling very shy, butterflies in my stomach, you know, not in my throat,just talking about myself in front of people to now today at the drop of a hat, I can give
my, you know,
elevator pitch like it's no big deal because I know it so well and I've just built up thatconfidence.
(12:20):
You know, I think that's something that people don't realize is the repetition reallycounts.
The consistency really counts.
So I would say be and I helped me grow up as a business owner and then also just havingthat support network.
And I don't mean it like a support group.
mean, having knowledge and connection to other business owners.
mean, you know, like the auto shop in my chapter, we are very different people runningvery different businesses, but hearing her journey and how she's
(12:45):
doing and managing like has really encouraged me.
I, it's like, I, I teeter that that line of like, do I call them my business family or doI call them my, my business support group?
They're, they're kind of a mix of the two.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's great to have colleagues that get you and understand and ride the ups and downswith you and are there for all the things.
(13:08):
So that's amazing.
Have you ever made any mistakes in networking that you felt like you learned somethingfrom?
(13:30):
yes, of course.
You know, one of the things that I first did that I regret, but also I don't regretbecause I learned from it was a couple of people had suggested to me, you these were other
business owners in my chapter and they give me advice based on what the previousphotographer had done.
And so I thought, well, I'm just going to give it a try.
And that was giving things away for free.
(13:51):
You know, I'm a very generous hearted person and I will help people out as best I can.
but giving things away for free or at a ridiculous price point where I can't even coverthe babysitter and the food and beverages, that was a big mistake.
um I did that because they're like, well, the past photographer did this, you should dothis too.
And I thought, okay, you know, why not give it a try?
(14:12):
That cost me, it cost me a couple of different ways.
One, so I did like a headshot happy hour where I charged hardly anything.
It gave me a great opportunity to really show what I could do, I really, you know, I didhave, we have two children at the time that needed a sitter.
My husband was out of town, so I had to pay the babysitter.
(14:33):
had, you know, I brought food and beverages, like snacks and nibbles, and I did not breakeven.
It was not good.
And then what that did, which I also want to share here for any photographers listening inis,
you know, when a photographer, one of those business owners came back to me and said, Hey,I'd love to have you come do headshots for my company.
was like, great.
Here are, here's my package, my quote.
(14:55):
She's like, why does it cost so much?
You only charge this much at this event.
And I was like, Oh, well, that's not my usual rate.
did that as a favor because it was recommended.
Right, yeah, that's a, and I think it's probably not only photographers, right?
is when we come in, I think there are a lot of different businesses that maybe foodservice, catering.
(15:17):
em People want to test it out, let's see, you could do it, and that's a common, becauseI've been a mentor in the photography group for 10 years, uh that's a common thing that
people ask photographers to work for free.
And I don't know why that is.
don't know, you know, it's like, well, everybody has a phone and you push a button andthat you're, you know, you can take pictures, but that's not what a photographer does.
(15:44):
So, you know, there's a, I appreciate that learning that there is value always to what youoffer.
And lots of folks in BNI offer a discount to fellow BNI members.
And I think that's fine, you know, cause that's, we're helping each other out if youchoose to do that, but giving it away for free.
is generally not always the best route em because of all the reasons you just said.
(16:07):
So thanks for sharing that.
How about your biggest win in BNI?
What's been your biggest win?
Yeah, so my biggest win.
this is a story I love sharing.
I, you know, as business owners, we set different goals for ourselves.
In 2019, I was on a family road trip and we were driving through the countryside and mykids were noticing all these billboards.
It was not the first time they had seen billboards, but because it was such a rural area,there was hardly anything to look at.
(16:31):
They noticed them more.
And I realized, wow, a couple of things.
One, some of these photographs of people were terrible.
Yes.
uh billboards, while they seem archaic, are actually a really effective way of marketingand getting in front of people.
And so when I returned the next week and visited my BNI chapter regular weekly meeting, Isaid to the chapter, said, an ideal referral for me is the business owner who's ready to
(16:56):
put their face on a billboard to represent their company.
I want to be their photographer.
Well, last year I got to be that photographer.
nice.
in my chapter who was in that meeting, who's a really long standing member.
And it just gave me so much pride.
know, granted the only people seeing this are those driving that specific road, seeingthat billboard, but it was just so exciting to be like, I got a portrait on a billboard.
(17:21):
I did it.
It feels, there's a sense of pride, I think, when you see something you've created uh upfor all the world to notice.
And I think we forget sometimes that no matter what we do, there is something that we'vegiven, and that's kind of like the giver's game thing, No matter what our profession,
(17:42):
we're giving something of tangible value to someone else.
in our you know as a photographer you can see it which is great because it's up there forthe world but you know it's amazing when you ask for and receive what you had a dream to
put together and there it was so love that all right so let's roll over to the clifton'sstrengths we will
(18:08):
go through what your top five are.
we have, you have a few that we have not heard from yet on the podcast.
So I'm excited to hear about that.
So you have Learner So you have a great desire to learn and want to continuously improvethe process of learning rather than the outcome excites you.
(18:30):
That's your number one.
Your number two is strategic.
You create alternative ways to proceed.
Faced with any given scenario, you can quickly spot the relevant patterns and issues.
Number three is empathy.
You can sense other people's feelings by imagining yourself in others' lives orsituations.
Number four is developer.
(18:50):
You recognize and cultivate the potential in others.
You spot the signs of each small improvement and derive satisfaction from
evidence of progress and number five is achiever.
You work hard and possess a great deal of stamina.
You take immense satisfaction in being busy and productive.
(19:11):
So have you taken any type of assessments before,
I have, but not this specific one.
Okay, awesome.
So what about it was most interesting to you, I guess?
Yeah, so I'm not surprised by the top three at all.
I think the developer part I was surprised by, I shouldn't be when I reflected on itbecause I think it kind of comes naturally.
(19:35):
Parenting, you can learn these skills.
But yeah, that did surprise me a little bit.
Okay, awesome.
and so you have, I mentioned earlier, you have things that others that we haven't had alearner yet.
And so I'm curious to hear a little bit more from someone who is a learner.
And my learner, I think I'm at 18 on learner.
(19:55):
So it's not my top thing, um but it's...
learner for a lot of people uh is an opportunity to improve, right?
They want to learn more, seek things out so they can be better.
How does that play out for you?
Yeah, so I always love learning new things.
um And how that shows up for me is, uh let's see, I think really as a business owner, oneof the things I was able to identify pretty quickly, I would say in like the first three
(20:26):
years of business, was that I really wanted to give myself, uh I guess, assignment everyyear, like something new that I wanted to learn or master before I found something else to
focus on.
So here I am running my business.
but I also wanted to level up an area.
So for example, that those first like, think year three in business, I took a class on SEOso I could improve my ranking for my website.
(20:49):
And then the following year it was like, I'm gonna learn social media marketing.
So I took a class on that.
So I'm constantly looking for opportunities to learn for my business benefit and then alsoin my personal life, right?
So I um organized, I was a member of a Pea Patch, which is a community garden space.
I was able to coordinate a tree pruning class, even though I don't have any at that time.
(21:12):
I had no trees, but I knew I wanted trees, but I knew I needed to take care of them.
Yeah.
you have enough information?
Because learner is not necessarily focused on the outcome, but more about, you know, kindof getting the information.
So how do know when you've learned enough?
when I feel competent to do the thing.
Yeah, yeah, I don't need to like become an expert in everything, but I need to feelcomfortable moving forward, doing the thing.
(21:40):
Okay, awesome.
And looking at the ones that are there, what do you feel like maybe you could lean moreinto to help you in BNI and your business, so on?
Yeah, so I think strategy is actually something that came up for me.
It was something I realized I wanted to put more intention around this year.
also like, you know, like I said, I set goals and areas to learn.
(22:03):
think when I hear the word strategy, I tend to think about um boring checklists.
Hahaha!
oh
And I picked up a book by Seth Godin called This Is Strategy and began that as well.
he talks about, know, strategy is actually a lot bigger than a series of checklists.
It incorporates many things.
(22:24):
And so I think that how that would show up for me as a BNI member is being more strategicin how I, my area for most growth, uh the area of my weakness in BNI is inviting visitors.
So just getting comfortable with like, what's my strategy for inviting visitors, right?
Because we can't control whether or not they show up, but we can control how many weinvite.
(22:45):
Yes, for sure.
Yeah, and we didn't get to that part or I didn't ask that question when we were looking atyour Power One, but that was the one area where you didn't have color.
oh So I love that you're applying that to that.
(23:14):
m
know, strategic is my number one, but it's interesting because the five things you have inthe top, and I always do this whenever I bring this up, is they blend together uniquely
for you.
So it's your, there's a DNA strand if you look at, and for those that are seeing me on thescreen, there's a DNA strand at the top of, when you do the full 34, they have that, or if
(23:37):
you go on Gallup's website, you see that, because it's your unique set of things, and how,if you have,
your strategic plays out differently for you than mine does for me.
And I am, I'll make a list, but I'm not married to a list.
I'm more about the strategy for me is how to uh solve a problem, right?
(23:59):
As I can immediately, my brain just ticks through and I'm sure you probably have some ofthat too, where you tick through a whole bunch and I think yours probably, and you can
tell me, but because you acquire knowledge through learning, um maybe you,
set the strategy and then learn some more information and then apply it.
And I don't know how that works for you.
(24:19):
Maybe you can tell me.
Yeah, so I haven't.
So again, I when I when I think about the word strategy and what it means to me, I havebeen holding it as something that's a little bit more checklist oriented, systems
oriented, and I find those to be boring.
And so I think for me, strategy is more of an intuitive process that where, you know, I'mlearning new things, I'm applying those new lessons, I'm shifting how I do things.
(24:46):
So I didn't like consciously think of using strategy.
I thought of it as more of
I'm evolving and improving how I do things.
Sure.
Are you, do you hold a position within the chapter itself?
Not at this time.
I mean, I have a, I would say that one of those fun roles.
So I get to do the closing quote, which I am applying a strategy to.
(25:08):
I plan them out every month ahead of time.
So there's a little strategy there.
Gotcha.
um Well, and you also have empathy.
Do you consider yourself an emotional person?
Okay.
How do you think that that kind of colors how you have relationships with people in BNI orin your business?
I know in your business, because I know, you we did similar similar types of things thatphotography and empathy for me are hand in hand because you to in order to connect with
(25:37):
somebody, you know, it's better when you have
high empathy because it's a very vulnerable position for people.
Most people, they're fine with you, hold your phone up and take it.
Well, some of them are fine when you hold up your phone and take a picture, but when itcomes to an actual photo shoot, it creates a whole different set of things.
(25:58):
So I believe that's gonna be a great aid to you naturally, but how about in business?
How does that work for you in terms of BNI?
Yeah, so in BNI, know, the empathy piece, right?
I really care about people, how they're doing, not just what their business does.
I care a lot about people being successful and taking care of, you know, we're all inbusiness to take care of our families and ourselves, right?
(26:21):
And so I care very deeply about people.
Sometimes I have to check that though, because, you know, there's some boundaries, right?
Around like, oh, I care about this person.
I see them kind of making some mistakes here, but it's not my...
not my place to call it out, but rather notice and don't focus on that.
And then, you know, I really care about our chapter growing, right?
(26:44):
After COVID, it shifted and changed.
But I also know that I can only do my part and everyone else has to do theirs.
So I probably care more than the average, but I don't know because I don't start myone-to-ones out to be like, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you really care about me?
Right?
I don't have those conversations.
Yeah.
just is part of the fabric of who you are.
(27:07):
And I don't my empathy is number twenty seven.
So, know, people when you when you see the full list, you're thinking to yourself, oh,that sounds bad.
My empathy is low.
Right.
But it's not that I don't have empathy.
You know, I do have empathy.
I just don't that's not my go to at the top at the top of the list is
(27:28):
I lead with other things and pull that out when it's necessary for me because it's justnot the first thing.
uh
yeah, and I would say that I have been told several times while having one-to-ones, peoplewill be like, wow, you'd make a really great therapist.
I'm like, I don't want to be a therapist.
They're too empathetic.
That's not...
(27:50):
Yes, yeah.
goes along with empathy is there's a for some people, they can be perceived as a softertouch, so to speak.
Great.
Do you feel like that in any way?
Like how do you combat, and that's not necessarily the right word, combat, us being a softtouch is often a good thing, but is there, how do you play that into being a leader in
(28:12):
what you do in business?
Yeah, well, I think it really has to do with being, you know, I'd say growing up, right,and being more self aware of what serves me and what doesn't serve me, like really
learning when it's my place or not my place to ask personal questions.
So as a BNI leader, I might be far more gentle in terms of my communication style.
(28:34):
And I also think that that's where strategy has maybe come up for me as well, where Ididn't realize it, where I think, OK, I need to call someone on
being more accountable, and it's gonna serve all of us better, even though I feel really,really bad speaking up to that.
Yes, well, and that's a blind spot for some people with that high level of empathy is theydon't want to, right?
(28:58):
Because it makes them feel bad and it makes everybody feel bad.
And you take that on for yourself where someone else might just say, it's just what weneed to do in order for things to be better.
So it's good to have that recognition, but it's also good, you said something in there,for me,
(29:19):
when you're building your chapter, need that diversity of things.
You need people who have different talents.
when I was the president, I had a vice president and a secretary treasurer who had verydifferent strengths from me.
And that was a good thing, right?
Because I'm going to go hard charging into strategy number one, maximizer in my top.
(29:41):
command, all the things.
So I know I need that empathy person.
I need that harmony person.
I need that Includer person on my team because we all need to work together because theysometimes need to pull me back and say, wait, you're, you know, but you have Achiever high
also your Achiever was number five and I'm number 10 and Achiever works all the time andyou know, wants to
(30:08):
get there, right?
Let's get there, do the thing.
And not everybody else has that either.
So it's amazing when you look at across your BNI chapter, it is, if you were all exactlythe same, you probably wouldn't be as successful.
And that helps you as your business too, right?
It's because you can, with those things, especially if you work alone or just with a smallteam in your business, it gives you other resources to, that you can trust, right?
(30:33):
Know, like, and trust that you have that support team behind you that
maybe you bring a problem from your business to someone else that has a different set ofstrengths that you could bounce those things off of and they can give you different
feedback, which is amazing.
All right, so what one piece of advice would you give to somebody who wanted to build astronger referral network?
You've been in all the different positions.
(30:55):
What have you seen from your purview that would help people build things in your 10 yearsof experience?
Yeah, so I think recognizing that building relationships takes time, just like in yourpersonal life.
So in your business life, the same holds true.
to really, and this is my uh empathy part showing up, like, recognize that people aren'tjust here to be transactional, right?
(31:20):
We're motivated by being in relationship with each other.
So take the time, don't rush it, and understand that.
you know, we're all entering into relationships from a different perspective.
So we might, you you might need to have coffee with somebody five times before you get atransaction from that relationship.
Whereas someone else, in two achievers meeting, they might be ready to go to passreferrals that first meeting.
(31:46):
Right, that's awesome.
love that.
And what one thing have you done or what kinds of, how do you structure your businessthat's unique and different to you that helps you stand out from others and get more
referrals?
Yeah, so I think it's I think the piece that's maybe different.
don't think it's that different, though, in our industry of photography, but reallyhelping people feel good.
(32:11):
Right.
So the number one thing people say after they work with me is, wow, I feel so much better.
I was so stressed beforehand.
And then giving them that good feeling, that good experience that returns customers orthat returns referrals to me.
So I recognize that right away.
um It wasn't.
It wasn't like a strategy leading into it.
It just happened naturally.
(32:33):
So recognizing like, do you, how do you make people feel?
And then hold space for that, that whatever that needs to be, you know, if you're a bankeror you're an insurance broker, it might be that you're responsive and you communicate
well.
And then for me, I need to communicate well, but also I help people feel good aboutthemselves.
it goes back to that vulnerability that we talked about earlier is if people don't feelsafe or comfortable, they're not gonna have a good time.
(32:58):
And you want them to feel, walk out feeling energized and better about what theyexperienced than what they probably came into with the expectation of feeling
uncomfortable, but leaving feeling amazing.
So that's, I love that.
ah What's next for you?
What are you working on?
What areas are you growing in personally, professionally?
Yeah, so I mean, following that thread of the learner, right?
(33:20):
My number one trait there.
Something that I realized two years ago was that um I wasn't consistently feelingfulfilled from my work.
And what I mean by that is I need more novelty.
And so I am an artist.
Of course, all of my creative energy was focused on my business.
So I've made more intentional space to get creative.
(33:42):
I did a self-portrait series, for example.
I know I'm not the first photographer to do that.
Many, many.
Photographers have done that.
And that has led into me really uh digging into my family history.
I'm a citizen of the Eastern Shawnee tribe of Oklahoma.
And so I started to show up more in the creative space representing my tribal nation.
uh And I had did my first artist residency last year.
(34:03):
So I'm looking for more opportunities in that area, which has nothing to do with mybusiness.
But also, I mean, they go hand in hand, right?
As my creative heart and cup get filled, then uh my business energy stays high.
That's amazing.
And I was just looking to see, I feel like that falls into somewhere in your uh top fivestrengths is kind of having that.
(34:24):
And I think that's part of that learner piece is knowing where you come from and digginginto that culture probably has some significance from your learner perspective is, you
know, that's a big piece of who we are in understanding, you know, where we're going andall of those things.
So I love that.
ah
So I also want to tell people that Holly has a podcast and I went on her page and she hadan interview with the famous Ivan Meisner and I learned a whole bunch of new things that
(34:56):
it was not the same kind of, it's called the Career Spotlight Podcast and we'll drop alink below for anyone that wants to go and listen to that but.
um What was something you pulled?
He told you a whole bunch of stuff that nobody has heard about and was interesting.
It wasn't necessarily, um it was more about his foundational, you know, I think that'swhat you're digging into with everybody is how they got to where they are.
(35:20):
So what was the thing that surprised you most from that interview?
Yeah, so I think one of the things you know, when you hear Dr.
Ivan Meisner, anybody who's been in BNI for even a year, they know that like, wow, this isthe this is the guy, right?
He's the person who started everything.
And, you know, we hear about all of his expertise and his trainings and his books and hispodcast.
What was great was really learning where he came from.
(35:42):
Right.
Maybe that's my learner.
But I found it fascinating.
And that's the whole point of our podcast is to figure out how people got to where theyare in their career path.
And um I find a lot of inspiration hearing about people's journeys.
So Dr.
Ivenmeiser did not come from a lot of money or anything like that.
He really was somebody who built his own success.
(36:09):
I don't think we hear that.
It doesn't come up naturally in his podcast or the books.
And I mean, maybe little hints of it, but to hear where he came from was very helpful.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm it was appeasing your learner, learning all those things about him.
But also just very interesting because I love to know people's journey to success too.
(36:31):
And I feel like as a business coach and why I wanted to get certified for CliftonStrengthsis these are all clues to future things for me.
I have a high futuristic and I like to look down the road and see.
that's kind of a past journey, but it also helps you to see,
how did they get there, right?
(36:51):
As what were the pieces that made them who they are?
So I enjoy that as well.
So I have one last question is what was the most impactful thing for you today that wetalked about?
Yeah, well, I really love how you really put a magnifying glass on the power of one aswell as the Palms Report and then talk about the Clifton results, right?
(37:14):
And like, where are you with that and how do you put them, I guess, together, right?
And leverage those strengths.
So I really appreciate that because I think as a member in VNI, I think like five, sixyears ago when corporate took over, it was a new thing for us.
So we didn't know how to interpret it.
And it's been confusing ever since.
So ah I appreciate you sharing that and really explaining how that might show up as moreeffective BNI member.
(37:43):
Awesome.
All right.
And so we're almost at the end here.
em I want to thank you for being a guest.
And if you're listening here today, em if you enjoyed what you heard and want to hearmore, be sure to like, subscribe, share, comment, all the things that helps other members
find us.
And thank you for being here on the Perfect 100 Podcast.
(38:04):
Thank you so much.
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