Going Inside the Mind of Hollywood Producer Sam Sokolow

Hollywood Producer Sam Sokolow joins the crew to talk Hollywood and the NFL, what it's like to work with people from Ron Howard to Deion Sanders. It's a must watch!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, the big dog Honelo again. Everybody, Welcome to another
episode of The Philly Pulse, your city sports feed. I'm
your host, Joe Staysac, along with co host Son Lockner
and Michael Warren, And of course, we have a special
guest joining us today, the one and the only Sam Sokol.
How are you, my friend?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I am doing great, Joe, thank you so much for
having me. It's a pleasure to say.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Sam, You've been on The Philly Pulse exactly seven seconds
and you're already the most famous and most intelligent Boston
University graduateh he's ever been on this panel.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi. Well, you know I try to go places where
the bar is low.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, but you found it.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
You could trip over here, my friend.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
You can welcome anytime.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
So besides, let's get the obvious. Shadewa. You look like
a young Ted Dance And I don't know if anyone's
ever told you that you could probably start remaking Cheers again.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
I would love it. I as a Boston University alum,
I spent a good deal of time at Cheers, throwing
them back in uh, bowling the fence definitely. As a
matter of fact, I did a show which which we
may segue into at some point, I'm sure I did
the first reality show starring Dion Sanders back in the
day with Oxygen, and he only called me Malone. That

(01:12):
was his nickname for me because of Sam Malone.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
He's like Malone.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
That was the only way he ever referred to me.
Because you look like him. I don't know why is
he not? I if I tried to untangle Dion's thoughts, I'd.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Still be I had never thought that. My thought was,
I don't necessarily see it when I see Sam, but
I see Sam when I see him as Mike d
from the DCT Boys. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's that's that's definitely at my all. My my little
bookcase in my office, I have two Beastie Boys books.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
So that's well, you were in New York. You're from
New York City, right, so you were there when they
were blowing up.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
When they first started. In fact, my brother went to
high school with ad Rock's older brother, Matt Horowitz, and
tells a story that he was over there when they
were practicing some punk me when they were in junior
high and he said, you guys should look into this
hip hop thing. So my brother always takes a little
credit for the for the Beastie Boys.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Now, is that Alec? Yeah, so Sam's brother Alec wrote
toy story, so he's got im.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, he's the he's the he's the smart one in
the family, in our family.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Well, just to segue into that, for people that don't know,
Sam produces an incredible show. I'm not saying this to
kiss our guests. Ass Uh, Genius on that geo. You
don't have to be a history nerd, but if you are,
it's must see TV. Even if you aren't, it's really
really well done. The first season, which they had a
Super Bowl commercial for when Lady Gaga was the musical guest.

(02:39):
The first commercial after Lady Gaga's performance was Genius, and
it had Jeffrey Rush with a violin playing a Lady
Gaga song. I was like, that's pretty awesome. So Jeffrey
Rush is the first season which has how Sam got started,
which if you want to explain how that process went,
that's sure hooked up with Ron Howard and Brian Grazer.
The first season of Genius is Jeffrey Rush as Albert Einstein,

(03:02):
the second season as Antonio Benderis as Picasso. The third
season you gotta love that. Cynthia Revo has been quite hot.
She just did Wicked and she's Aretha Franklin in season three,
which is fantastic, and then the fourth season just was
a split between MLK and Malcolm X. It's all I'm
not saying you should watch it because Sam's here, I

(03:22):
really hype it up to anyone that'll listen.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm saying you should watch it because here. No, I'll
tell you Cynthia. Everyone involved in the show, from the
writers to the directors of the episodes, obviously starting with
Ron Howard directing the pilot episode of Einstein, all the
way through production design, I mean hair makeup. It has

(03:45):
been the greatest experience to work with people of that
ilk and quality and world class talent across the board.
And there are so many memories of the production and
of the experience that keep besting each other. But I
will say the very first time when they were filming
the Aretha season, it was during COVID and not everyone

(04:08):
was on set all the time, and there was an
app on you know that you get and download on
your phone, and encrypted app where you get the dailies.
So at the end of every day of shooting, they
always do these things called dailies, where the producers and
director can watch everything that was shot that day. The
network executives give feedback, give thoughts, or just feel comfort
that everything looks good. And the dailies would come on

(04:31):
my cell phone and I'd wake up early in the
morning in la and they'd be there from the day
before shooting. And the first time I listened to some
takes of Cynthia Revo, who sang the part of Aretha,
I remember thinking, like, we're the production team, why are

(04:52):
they going into some studio and sweetening her singing for
a dailies clip, And they're like, oh no, that's just
her singing live on stage in the sound stage.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Crazy and have ever in my life?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
I mean, I've just blown away again. Jeffrey is as
as Einstein and obviously Antonio, you know, you know, es
Picasso was unbelievable, and uh, you know every I think
every season has been you know, just a joy, just
a treat. So, uh, you know, our Malcolm x Martin
Luther King season was incredible. So couldn't be more proud

(05:25):
of the show, and you know, uhrill to always get
a chance to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Sam let me ask you. I'm Sam. I know you're
a little older than I believe Micah, So I'm sure
you've watched When I hear Ron Howard one, I think
of Richie. I think of Opie even before Richie Cunningham.
So I grew up with that, and then all of
a sudden it becomes you know, big time, Paull thirteen
and you know, The Grinch and all the other movies
you wanted to direct, and he got at acting. But Megastarr,

(05:54):
what's it like working with him? You know?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'll use a little analogy as an actor right that
there are maybe a small handful of actors on the
planet at any given moment that can truly become something else,
like Daniel da Lewis can inhabit something else. But most
actors have the you know, incredible I think it's the

(06:20):
hardest job in the world. Most you know, show up
on time in front of two hundred people or whatever
and cry or be or remote. Most actors are able
to tap into their true essence and be very real
in the moment. And Ron Howard is the essence of
Richie Cunningham and Opie. He is the absolute nicest human

(06:42):
being and the most curious person that I've been around
in a creative atmosphere. And when we were developing this,
we based the first season off of Walter Isaacson's book
Einstein His Life in Universe, and Walter it is arguably
the best biographer of our time, wrote the Steve Jobs

(07:05):
book that became that film, wrote Leonardo da Vinci book
that now Leonardo DiCaprio is developing. And when when we
talked with Walter about what makes genius, you know, like,
what do you think to still he did Ben Franklin,
and he always says curiosity. The greater the curiosity, the
greater the potential, the greater the mind. And I think

(07:29):
Ron has this unbelievable curiosity and he's so respectful, but
he's just so smart. So working with him, you know, again,
was a joy remains a joy. But when you're around him,
you're literally like, this is the nicest person in the world,
and it's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
I think I remember you telling me years ago when
we first talked that, because obviously I asked the same
questions as they are, like about Ron Howard, and I
think you had said something like I always wondered, do
I have to be a dick to succeed in this business.
And then after working with Ron Howard, You're like, no,
I don't you can be a good guy and be successful.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I mean, I I think that that that's the
ultimate goal, is to be successful at what you love,
pursue what you love, and be a good person that
you know you can look in the mirror yourself in
the morning, that you can live with, that you feel
has shown people the proper respect, that you're not in
it for the wrong reasons. And there are some little

(08:27):
people in this industry. There are all little people in
every industry.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
On the show, Sorry.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Whatdy Hayes, was you know, punching.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Steve Charlie And so I know that's not ever gotten
me a girl, but I do.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
I do take a lot of pride and trying to
be a good, nice, honest, clear clean person in my
life and being around guys like Ron you know, like
you said, make it so much easier to know that
it is about the work, It is about the experience,
and it is about collapse, biration and doing it with
the right spirit and and uh and he I think
is is a north star for that for sure.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
So, Sam, I've always been I, I just your world
fascinates me. And I I always tell Micah and I
promise I'm not going to pitch anything.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, I was like, don't be pitching the That's what
I hear always right before pitch.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I kill Mike in a second. But I'm not going
to pitch. I promise. No.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
I just what inspired you to get into this into
your career?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Oh gosh, I mean the list is very long.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Kind of grew I grew up in it, right.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Your dad was my well, both my mom and dad.
My dad worked in publishing around the time that I
was born, so he was around the book world in
New York and and that you know, it was continues
to be a monster business, but it was a monster,
monster business. The book industry of course always is, but
before the Internet, that was it. And uh and my

(09:59):
mom a little bit later in her trajectory, when I
was maybe four or five, they needed another income and
wanted to get back to work, and she ended up
becoming editor at a company that was run by a
guy named Robert Stigwood, who went on to make Saturday
Night Fever. He was a big music producer and because

(10:23):
of my father's relationships and publishing. In my mom's I
think unbelievable brilliance and knack for storytelling and recognizing what
can be a good story. She ascended pretty quickly in it,
always in New York, but as an executive in the
entertainment world. And when I was like seven years old,
she was the development executive at Warner Brothers in New York,

(10:45):
overseeing a movie called The in Laws with Peter Fock
and Alan Arkin, and I read the script and then
and then, you know, I would be given a few
dollars in cab money when I got out of school
because she was off on the set my dad was working,
and I'd go to a visitor on set, they just
stick me like in a trailer or somewhe where I
couldn't get into too much trouble. But at an early age,

(11:08):
being able to read a script and see it being
brought to life and streets in New York shut down
and trucks and people running around, I was just so
taken with that as a little boy that I don't
think I ever thought about doing anything else literally ever.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Now do you need a forty seven year old man
to do that right now? Because I'm totally in.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
The greatest thing about this industry to me. There are
many great things, there are many difficult things, But the
greatest thing about the entertainment industry for me is that
it is like a professional sport in the fact that
you have to work at it all the time. You
have to train as it were, you have to get
up early, you have to stay at late, you have
to sacrifice you to do all those things. But unlike

(11:52):
a professional sport, you don't have to take somebody else's
job to work. You can create a path for yourself.
You want to play in the end NFL, you got
to take one of these fifty three jobs on a team.
You want to play in the NBA, you got to
take one of those fifteen jobs twelve seats on the
bench to get in there. And and in entertainment, it's
kind of this ever expanding universe, and we've seen it

(12:14):
expand so much in the last ten years. So I
think that if I think there's never, it's never the
wrong time. You're still, what, five years younger than when
Raymond Chandler published his first book. He's my favorite, you know,
pop boiler mystery writer. So but I think it's a
great industry that people can take part of JD. Spradling,
who played the coach in North Dallas forty and and

(12:36):
what was the uh and uh one on one. You know,
he was like a successful businessman who went into acting
in his fifties. So there's always time show.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yet lockner.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Together, Joel, I feel it.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
You mentioned there are difficulties in the in the industry,
and I'd like to just ask you real quickly about that.
But I always thought, I mean a long time ago,
right out of college did was involved in some commercials
in the extra a couple of speaking parts. But I
also know how it works, and I got to look
at least a very minuscule look. It's not what it

(13:11):
looks like the final product, obviously, I mean there and
I've been on sets where it's taken like you know,
twenty seven takes to do something that all right, that
look pretty good to me, but obviously the director is
looking at something else. And when I produce a piece,
I get that A lot of it it's a hurry
up and wait. A lot of it's you know, it's
stopped and start, a lot of it. A lot of
it's not flow. But then the actors have to get

(13:32):
into the same kind of mode when they're shooting it
from a different angle and you have to stop for
a couple hours and they have to pick up. How
hard is that for actors been? And how hard is
it for you not being maybe necessarily an actor and seen,
but also someone who's dealing with all that time in
between and all the you mentioned, You know, how long
it takes for a one day shooter. Maybe come up

(13:54):
with a five minute scene like the scene almost famous
where they're singing Tiny Dancer, it took two days to
shoot on was like twenty eight seconds of the actual movie. Like,
what's that like for you?

Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know, I, first of all, just to cover the
acting part from it. It's why one of the reasons
I think acting really is the hardest job, because to
be able to break down a script into emotional beats,
and then be able to call on those emotional beats
based on a schedule that's being made to satisfy a
budget and locations and all these other things, and you

(14:28):
might be shooting the last scene of the film first
out of order and have to create that emotional moment
that you're then reverse engineering. You know, I just think
that's you know, I tip my actors that can really
do that well. My wife is one of them, and
I see her prepare and execute and it's mind blowing
to me. For me, and I'm writing my first book

(14:51):
about this whole, not like a memoir because hell am I,
but you know about this experience and about how life
and producing you have taught me a lot of things.
And one of the things that I distill this down
to that I've really come up with somewhat recently as
I've continued to think about it, and I teach a
lot now and education is a big part of what
I do, which i'd love to talk about a little bit.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, getting a stage thirty two when you finish this
thought for.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Sure is that at least to be a producer, and
I think that this goes with a lot of things,
but certainly to be a producer you have to exist
in this really unique sort of I don't want to
call it zen or ying and yang is probably more appropriate,
but it's like being at this heightened place of unbelievably

(15:40):
aggressive and unbelievably patient at the exact same time. And
that's what it is. You have to aggressively go after
things and you have to be patient at the same time. So,
as one little example, in an hour, I'm actually pitching
a show to Fox Television Studios that we've developed. It's

(16:01):
an idea that first percolated up about seven years ago.
We have been aggressively pursuing it, aggressively putting it together.
We found the showrunner, creator. We you know, it's based
on someone. We made the deal with them. It's on
their life. I mean, this has been seven years of
aggressively going after this, but at the same token, seven

(16:22):
years of being patient through a pandemic, through strikes, through
the industry kind of evolving to now's the moment to
pitch it. So I've been aggressively getting us here, but
I've also had to be very patient. I think that's
what it is when you're on set and you might
be in between things. One of the amazing things about
production is that the hurry up and wait part may

(16:46):
happen with certain moments in front of the camera or
certain moments of course along the way, but there's always
something prepared for the next moment. So is the next
set being prepared, is the next day being repaired, is
our parking permits ready? All of it? So, as a producer.
You're always thinking about like did we not mess anything

(17:08):
up before? Are we ready for tomorrow? And is everything
happening right now? So for me, I don't think there's
ever really a moment of downtime. Not that I don't
try to hang out at the craft service table and
look cool eating all day long, but but I think
there's always so much to do and think about. That's
what I love about it. I I I you know,

(17:31):
I half joke, You know I don't. I'm a pillofobe,
but I barely take aspirin. So my ADHD and OCD
and are they're satisfied at all times? There's constant stuff
to think about, worry about, and.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Somehow stimulation a lot of stimulation.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Somehow it's a happy place.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Love So in terms of getting into the business, I
want you to be able to plug one of your
new ventures, which is stage thirty two, which, as you've
described to me, it's a great way to go to
to learn the below the line positions from industry perform
Esastionals online. You and I went to be you fantastic,
but we know what that costs. And you can go
to NYU Film school. Our buddy Jeff Fisher went there.

(18:09):
I'm sure it's a really great way to learn from
people that do it from the pros, and it's much
more accessible because you can do it all through on
you talk about it, I'm just say yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean, look, I'm a real fan of education. I'm
a fan of teaching this industry. I think that you know,
it's not only one or the other. I think that
there's a great place for film schools and growing a
film school. I teach at Clemson University right now. I
teach film, but film schools, by their very nature, don't
really teach these specific below the line jobs that are

(18:47):
needed by production communities all over the world. I've been
working with Stage thirty two for about three years. It's
a twelve year old company founded by a guy named
Richard Rbibado. You know, incredibly smart guy in credibly talented guy, writer, actor, producer,
and you know he's grown Stage thirty two over thirteen
years to this entity. Now. It's a social community, it's

(19:10):
an education platform. Forbes magazine calls it the LinkedIn for
the entertainment industry. And I was brought in by rb
and the managing director of Mandatni to help build this vision.
They had for a certification program to help, you know,
build crew bases around the world, and we built the
Stage thirty two certification program. And literally, I mean we

(19:34):
just trained twenty people in Pittsburgh in production accounting, specifically
to work on new projects that are coming into Pittsburgh,
like Mayor of Kingstown and they just announced this big
Hershey's limited series. We just trained a bunch of people
in Hawaii to help, you know, bolster their crew base. Basically,
the way the film industry works today on the production end,

(19:56):
which is why you hear about production happening all over
the world is these communities are passing these tax incentives
trying to lure the Disney's and the Netflixes and the
Amazons or the Hbos or what have you to come
shoot their Game of Thrones there, their Diplomat there, or
their Marvel movie there. But you also need to have
a healthy crew base in that local place because they

(20:19):
don't want to send every production accountant and production coordinator
and production assistant. So who's training those people to be
good at this work day one? And that's an area
that Stage thirty two certification has really taken and excelled
and you know again, We've done programs in Uganda, Africa,
we're announcing one soon in the Middle East. We've worked

(20:41):
in Croatia and Poland and Costa Rica. It's really exciting
to be able to feel like you're affecting people's lives
and helping prepare them for a career in the industry.
Like Micah said, online cost effectively from anywhere in the world.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
And not subject to tariffs.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yet you never know what's coming next. I haven't refreshed
my phone in ten minutes, but you know, right now,
right now, they haven't figured out a way to tariff knowledge,
so hopefully, hopefully they never do.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well just so people know, like a lot of times,
think you were talking to all the different locations. If
something's set in the city, I can almost promise you
it's not shot there. My favorite example is remember Jackie
Chan's Rumbling the Bronx, just so you know, there's not
a mountain range behind the Bronx.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, shows go where they have to go. And interestingly enough,
though one of the one of the greatest editors in history,
when he did his little pie chart on the priorities
of editing fifty one percent is emotion and everything else
is continuity and continuation. And when you tune into stuff

(21:53):
like that again, you guys, remember the movie Empire. I'm
not the Yeah, the Empire strikes back. The second Star
Wars movie in nineteen eighty one, there's the famous moment
that I think every young man certainly was like, oh,
that's the coolest thing, when han soul is about to
get frozen and the cryogenetic freeze or whatever, and Princess

(22:15):
Leah says I love you, and he says I know,
and then goes down there. The wide shots he's wearing
no vest and in the close ups he's wearing a
black vest, but you don't know because you're so caught
up in the emotion, you know, And the emotion is
really how editors make their decisions, and they assume if
the audience sees something a little out, it's what they

(22:37):
call an easter egg. It's a little moment. In Hitchcock's
North By Northwest, there's a moment where where they fake
a murder in a big cafeteria near the Mount Rushmore monument.
And if you watch it enough, at some point you
see a little boy sitting at one of the tables
put his fingers in his ear before the gun goes off,
because obviously it's the fifth take and he's had this

(22:57):
gun go off. You know, you notice these things over time,
but they don't. I don't think they take away the.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Kind of make I've seen blooper reels, Like there's a
ball of cereal in a Monster's episode where the dragon's
coming out of the stairs and there's like kids eating cereal,
a ball of cereal. And there's a major major in
the year with out of Santa Claus at the end
when Mother Nature's telling the Meser brothers that things happen,
things just happened. When when? But that, to me, that's

(23:26):
the best part, kind of makes it real, kind of makes.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
I found one of the things pretty interesting. Do you
remember the show Bloodline with Kyle Chandler.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I loved it.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yeah, it was filmed in the Keys, and I think
there was something about Florida was going to tax a
little bit. There was something regarding taxes and filming, and
I if I remember correctly, they decided to end the
show premature because they felt it couldn't get filmed anywhere else,
which I yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I haven't, to be honest, I haven't read up on
why that happened. But you know, one of the things
that we talk about all the time, both in the
Stage thirty two work and when I'm teaching students at
Clemson and preparing them to go off into their careers
is you know, always remember simple math. The word business
is twice as long as the word show, and so

(24:13):
the business is going to drive decision making. It's going
to drive I just read a thing. I mean, my
heart breaks for Los Angeles right now in a lot
of ways because so much production is leaving LA. But
it's not leaving the planet Earth. It's going elsewhere. There's production,
more production happening now than ever. But you know, Rob
Lowe is hosting a game show and they did a

(24:34):
cost analysis and it was less expensive to shoot the
entire game show and send all the contestants over to
Europe than it was to shoot it in LA And
so you know, those things need to be evened out.
I also know people in Los Angeles and in California
that work at the big guilds like the Writer's Guild
and the Director's Guild, and they're working with the state

(24:55):
and trying to increase the tax incentive and the ease
of shooting and keep people in LA compete and I
expect they'll figure that out and should and will. But
the almighty dollar makes a lot of these decisions, and
at a certain point, there's someone sitting in these studios
that says, oh, it costs eighty million dollars to do

(25:16):
it here, and it only costs sixty million dollars to
do it there, and that decision gets made.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Sure. So yeah, let me try to and we'll continue
to talk about Hollywood because this is fascionating. Can do
this for three hours at least the rest of us
could too. But you're a Giants fan.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, I was going to say, I feel like you
guys are pushing off the fact that we had such
a great draft.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Well you did phenomenal, But I do have to say this,
and again, I'm not trying to kiss up to our
guests who happens to be a friend and colleague of
mine that he before the draft, I don't say. I
don't remember what I was texting you about. It was
something else and I said something like, well what are
you going to do tonight? And you knew what that meant.
I mean, anybody that's a junkie knows if somebody says
that to you on draft day, they know what you mean.

(25:59):
And he's like, I want to have to Carter. He's like,
and he went on, I won't say all of it,
but a brief diet Tribe Shadder is a third round pick.
He's a marketing made guy. And at the time, what's funny, Sam,
I thought you were wrong then because I was like third,
was he nuts? He might he might drop out of
the first third? Please? And then after the draft I
realized you were wrong, but for a completely different reason

(26:20):
that I thought you were wrong. Originally he went to
the fifth. But then so Sam texted me after it
was because he said, we'll get a quarterback coming back
second Jackson Dart. And then he said, let me see
if I know this team defensive tackle, O line, running back.
They went defensive tackle, running back, O line, And as
I told I think, I text you, Sam. I was

(26:41):
talking to Sean Landetti, your former punter with the Giants,
two time Super Bowl Award, Super Bowl champion, and I
told him what you did. He goes, oh, man serious.
I was like, yeah, he nailed the draft, and I
have to like give him credit for this. That's that
was really really impressive.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
It was impressive, But I kind of wanted to do
a little big picture because you're a Giants fan, you know,
for super Bowls, not recently, but for super Bowls, for
Super Bowls, but I mean since then, I mean, how
hard is it? Is it? What's harder getting a show
greenlit or trying to watch your Giants get out of
their own way in the NFCS.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, honestly, they're They're not apples to apples, right, I mean,
I get like one is a career and a passion
and one is a lifetime kind of commitment to a team.
They're they're they're they're different. The Giants have been there
with me when shows get passed on, when shows get canceled.

(27:39):
You know, they're my They're my, they're my my.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
But it has been tough for Tildy.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
I know.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
I know they made a real big thing of the
Saquon Barkley because he went NOTS, but probably wasn't even
a prudent move to give a lot of money or
running back when you still couldn't figure out the quarterback
and that offensive line problem. So I mean, I think
made a much bigger thing of that.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
But also, look, things are in finite right. So just
to answer your question, you know, I can partamentalize these
things a little bit, but very quickly. My analogy to
getting a TV show on the air, I always say,
is like climbing Mount Everest, and it's extremely hard. You
can do it, but it's really hard, and it's really
about what do you arm yourself with? Could somebody climb

(28:21):
Mount Everest and sandals and shorts? I can't say no,
but it's very improbable. But if you have a show
that you put together with a great team, maybe from
a great source material like a book like we had
with Walter's book or the woman that we're basing the
show on and pitching you know later on today, and
you have certain elements together, you know you're increasing your odds,

(28:42):
and you have a little you know, have control over
all of it, but you have a little control over
how you prepare and go. As a fan, you're really
along for the ride, and you can have an opinion
and you can bitch and moan and all the things
that you can do as a fan or celebrate and
be thrilled, but you're really along for the ride. And
I think that one of the things about being a
Giants fan, but I think everybody that's a big fan

(29:05):
of their team has this to a certain degree, is
but certainly with a Giants fan, you're kind of you
feel like you're sort of part of the company.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
It's like Big Blue, You're part of IBN. You punch
the clock, you go in every day. I'm going to
be a fan today for the Giants. And some days
the returns are great and some days the returns aren't.
But I'm in it for the gold watch for the
rest of my life. And you take the good and
the bad. And you know, those four Super Bowls that
we won were magical. They were magical seasons. You remember

(29:31):
everything about them, as I know Eagles fans now do
with the two rings you've won in the last several years.
And I certainly was rooting for you against the Patriots. Uh,
and and you know, found myself pulling against the Chiefs
that the it was like, it's keep it in the division,
you know, It's it's like, uh, we're in it to Yeah.
I can't say I do that with the Cowboys, but uh,
but yeah, but it is certainly a different emotional plane

(29:55):
as a fan. You know, the Giants are so definitional
to me. I'll spare everybody you have pictures of you
with your shirt off. I won't do that to anybody.
But I actually do have a Giants tattoo right here.
You know. I got it after nine to eleven. Actually,
I just moved to LA and I was like, I
need New York on me, and that NY that lowercase
New York Giants n Why is my favorite New York?

(30:17):
I felt it. It's what I did with my dad,
It's what I do with my brother and my best friends.
We text constantly and all through the games. So when
they're bad or they're not performing well, it's frustrating, but
it's still three hours a week, you know, sixteen seventeen
times a year that you get to analyze things. You
get to show your commitment, you get to show your

(30:40):
I guess, loyalty through the tough times. And even my
wife is like, why are you watching this right now?
And I'm like, well, because when they win, it's going
to be worth it, and I want to see what's
wrong and what they do. Specifically when it comes to sequan,
you know, you have to be analytical about things or
polytical about a lot of things, and life is not

(31:03):
apples to apples. And you know, take Genius as just
one last example. If we had sold Genius to HBO
would have been a very different show than doing it
with National Geographic and that family and their high bar
of factuality and visual beauty and all those things that
that GEO was a great brand. And if Seqwan Barkley

(31:24):
was on the Giants last year, I don't think he
has that season. We have a different line.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
We had absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
You know, I have a friend who's one of the
bigger sports writers in the country, and he texted me
several times just saying, just calm down. Just know he's
nine hundred yards probably injured for four games and you know,
eight touchdowns maybe if he's a giant what.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
He's saying, you had him for six years. I mean,
it didn't nothing happened for six years you had him,
and he was not going to do on the Giants
what he did on the He was not just the
cherry on top. It was an apple sized cherry on
top of that roster.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Without question.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
He was a perfect fit at the perfect team. Yeah,
perfect moment, and and look at what happened in the
Super Bowl. I mean, the Chiefs showed all year they
were a last second win more than not team, but
they weren't the same juggernaut they had been. And the
Eagles kicked their ass up and down the field for
sixty full minutes. And that that's Sequad got to be
a part of something like that. I am happy for

(32:19):
him and and and uh, you know, thrilled that Eagles
fans got to eat as much worseship as they could
possibly shovel into their mouth that night. Uh, and and fall.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
There was no reports of horseship Bedden.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Maybe not on where you where you read, but uh,
but but no, I mean I was. I was happy
for him and and and But I don't I think
the Giants had to move on. I think they really
had to move on from.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
I agree with him.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I agree with and Right now it feels like Joe
Shane has done that. He there was a descent. He
managed us through the descent. We got rid of all
that Albatross contract stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
He inherited from Gettle, and he's kind.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Of definitely moved us, even though it's been frustrating, into
this place now, at the very least Giant fans, and
I am filled with a tremendous amount of optimism and
see an identity brewing that you know, as I as
I said to Michael, you can't touch push all the
way down the field. There's a defense. Now you got
to deal with with the Giants. Well, I'm excited about that.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
I just think if the Giants weren't HBO last year,
I think definitely it was another team. How the story
would have never happened, right.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
I think that the team who let him go with
that that little she sequence with the GM and the owner,
well that's his point that it wasn't a bigger thing
in this in the same division and where he came from.
He wanted to be a Giant all his life. And
I think it was made too much. I think it
was the right decision, to be honest with you, for
the Giants to let him go. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
We'll see who wins next, and we'll see if the
Giants can actually put a product on the field. You know,
it's been a rough ten years. I mean, we you know,
we we we were joking me and a bunch of
my Giant fan friends yesterday about the fact that like
isn't it refreshing that meaningful football in April. You know,
it's been a long time since we had we've had
a really good season. I mean twenty two was terrific

(34:13):
and I think shows maybe what the coaching staff can do.
But and again, I you know, these are these are
degrees and you're not rooting against human beings. You're just
looking at a team. But you know, Daniel Jones was
I think the real mistake committing to him.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
They had he had him bent over a barrel after
that season though, it was like.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
He wins a playoff game in Minnesota, look good doing it,
but it was historically a bad defense, so it looked
a little better. And then okay, he wasn't a fifty
million dollars quarterback, but they didn't forty million for forty years.
That really put them in a little bit of a
buy because Sae Kwon said, oh, what's what's up with this?

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, and again I don't I don't know Daniel Jones.
So this isn't a personal thing. This is a fan
looking up player. But a five hundred quarterback at Duke.
You're not talking about some blue chip Alabama you know,
USC LSU super quarterback. He's a five hundred quarterback at Duke.
The season we did beat Minnesota in that game, he
through fifteen touchdown passes. You know, Mahomes does.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
That fifteen six that year.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, you know, like Malmes does that by the end
of September. Right, I never saw adding up, but maybe
in some way it was just their general way of
moving forward. And now, you know, that's the fun thing
about sports fandom. It's like, you know, the guy that
introduced Mike and I always says, I just sketch your head,

(35:31):
new deal, new moment. We got a new team. We
feel like there's some identity there. I'm excited for Jackson
Dart's future. But even having a capable quarterback room right
now with some veterans, you know, I'm expecting it to
be a more competitive year certainly, Well.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Do you Okay?

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Good?

Speaker 3 (35:49):
I just I don't mean to use the Eagles as
an example because that's who I follow. But Howie Roseman
is is in a unique position that he's earned where
he can look three years down the road. He makes
decisions for three years down the road. We have to
let Josh Sweat and Milton Williams go. I gotta look
at Jaalen, Carter, Quinyon Mitchell, Dishaun Cooper, Dejen that Nolan Smith.

(36:11):
These guys are all gonna get mega paid, So I
have to start planning for that. Do you are you concerned?
As a Giants fan? Shane really can't do that. There
was a lot of people that thought he and Dable
should be gone after last year. He certainly is in
a you better show me something this year. Does that
bother you that he really can't look those three years
down the road because he might be out of a

(36:31):
job by this time next year.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
He might. I think the dart buys them a little time.
Now they got their guy, they can kind of say,
this is our team now, and this is our guy
we're gonna develop. Even just from self preservation, it looks
like they manage that intelligently for their own bottom lines
as people. Shane and Dable, but you know, you say

(36:56):
that and in another breath, you're always talking about the draft.
But Andrew Thomas went right as one of the best
left tackles in the game. Dexter Lawrence is only the
best defensive tackle in the game. These guys are locked
up for another four or five years. There's young talent there,
and you know what, Howie Rosamond has built Maybe in

(37:18):
a couple of years we can look at and say, hey,
there's great young talent and we can look ahead and
play that more varsity version of football then we've been playing,
which is chasing a little bit of relevance again.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
We'll see the quarterback room. Okay, so bring in not
one but two veterans, and one's kind of a I
don't even know what you call Jamie because which one
are you talking about? Yeah, he can be up here,
he could be here. Russell Wilson was seven to two
until the last five games of the season last year
and didn't didn't make a good showing for hims, didn't

(37:55):
put use lf real well in Denver. But he still
has a super Bowl ring. He's been to two. And
then you bring in the quarterback fro Mississippi State. What
would you like to see them do with the quarterback
situation this year? Because the executives you got, Shane and Gable,
are told we need wins now, but we also need

(38:17):
our quarterback of our future. That mister Marrick kind of
laid that, and they did. They did a nice job
handling that in the draft, but going forward to get
some wins on the board, you probably would start Russell Wilson.
But when does Dart get to see game action?

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Well, I think it depends on how well the team
plays and how well Russell Wilson executes. Right, So it
was old Miss not Mississippi State.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I only know that because my wife's best friend's dad
is like the old Miss president of the Booster Life.
You've been giving me the inside scoop that they're all
excited about Dart. So but you know, I think given
where we are in time, and as you said that
the need to win, the pressure for from ownership, you know,
maren Tish, the fan base. I mean again, we're only

(39:06):
a couple of months removed from guys flying planes around
the stadium saying get rid of everybody.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
So I was just going to reference that happening.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
A little bit of optimism is a good thing. And look,
there's no perfect science from going from you know, sucky
to good, right, you have to kind of figure it out,
and I think that the way I see it, for
whatever it's worth, you know, Russell Wilson's on a one
year contract, so it's basically, you're coming in here a
little bit like Kurt Wonder did when they drafted Eli.

(39:34):
You're going to be a veteran presence. You've won a
Super Bowl. Russell Wilson's stats are the career stats are
pretty terrific. Can't do certain things he used to do,
but he can still do certain things. You can throw
the moon ball, read defense as well. I mean, you know,
for a guy that went to Doke, Daniel Jones couldn't
read right, so he's it was awful. So you know,
I think Russell Wilson can play in a more intelligent

(39:56):
version of football and hopefully push that team to close
to a five hundred record as everybody matures, and you
give Dart some time. If something happens with Russell Wilson,
then you have Jameis Winston, who, you know, maybe not
the most consistent pro, but again, if you look at
the back of the baseball card every couple of years
has a pretty stellar.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Year, speeches in the league, and you know.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
And and and certainly is a personality made from New York.
I expect, I mean, I expect that dude to have
a talk show before it's all over, because he's the
twentiest guys like on Earth and and uh and and
the way I'm envisioning it, which only you know counts
for me sitting around thinking about it. Is Russell Wilson

(40:39):
is there to try to make them more competitive this year,
and Jamis is actually there to be the mentor to Dart.
And I think, with no disrespect to Russell Wilson, he
kind of tends to be in his silo and and
and is that guy. And I think Jamis has a
little bit more of an open approach to things, and

(41:00):
I think Jamis is going to be mentoring Dart a
little bit more on how to be a pro, how
to prepare, how to do those things. While Russell Wilson's
trying to win games. Something goes sideways with Russ, then
Jamis will probably step in because they're paying him to
do that and protect the Faberge egg that you just
drafted and give him the homes quote unquote thing of
a little time to mature. And then if we're you know,

(41:26):
two and thirteen again and there's two games left, then
you give Dart some game action and really start playing
for the future. But hopefully we're not in that position.
Hopefully we're competitive enough that the games are interesting. The
other young players are finding themselves getting a little bit better.
This rookie class is getting a little better. Last year's

(41:46):
is getting a little better. And and Dark can sit
for a year and really learn under these veteran quarterbacks.
But I think Jamis will have them really under his wing,
like a like a like a you know, crab club.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Well, I think if Russell plays even average above average,
I don't see why you can't win nine games. That's
a huge jump from three. Yeah, but I think that's achievable.
That the NFL least is getting competitive again. And the
Carter don't forget Brian Burns. Thibodeau. They picked up his
fifth year option. You said, Dexter Lawrence offensive line. I

(42:22):
don't know how to help you. I mean, I don't
even think Evan Neil's gonna play at any position this year. Yeah,
but I don't think they're gonna pick up his fifth
year either.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
But again, i'm I'm I'm look, it's always great to
be optimistic this time of year. But you know, again,
if he comes back healthy, Anthony Thomas is one of
the best tackles in the game. I'm John Runyon, you know,
to be the guard next to him, Michael schmidts if
he kind of plays well and plays like a second

(42:51):
round draft pick and and you know, in his third year,
really really holds down that position. The kid Mabo Mibo
pronounce an nbow that we drafted. There's a little bit
of competition there now at right guard, and we have
a right tackle that played decent at the end of
the year. So I'm not saying that this is like,
you know, the Hogs in the eighties, but there's a

(43:12):
good there's a better offensive line on paper right now
than the Giants have had.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
In five years. And so that's a big deal.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
If the defense can keep teams to twenty one points,
can we score twenty two points? That'll be the test.
Every surprise.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
No one has brought up Malik Neighbors, who in his
first year with Daniel Jones for most of the year
and then Paully Walnuts in a version of whoever else
they threw in. They're at one hundred and nine catches.
I know they selected him instead of it maybe a
quarterback last year, but he's he's going to be phenomenal,
another LSU phenom and I think He's obviously going to
help whichever quarterback is back there. But you mentioned right

(43:51):
at the top of the show, and I got to
ask you this because you're the only thing most people
are talking about, is the sugar Standers situation. Now, when
you guys traded back up in the draft and he
took Dart, which I thought I thought they were gonna
take that. I always liked him. I liked six year quarterback.
I liked playing playing for Lane Kiffin and in that system.
I always thought he was better than a lot of
people gave him credit for Sanders. I thought was okay.

(44:12):
He the story of the draft is last of the
fifth round, and a lot of things are now coming
out about maybe his attitude in the interviews and and
just his overall way carried himself, or maybe maybe it's
just not all that good. But then there's the Dion factor,
the father factor. How initially said well, we're gonna dictate
terms and who he plays for, and then kind of

(44:33):
towards you towards the draft, said now anyone could draft him.
You know him pretty well, Dion. How much of the
Dion factor went into Sure do you think that ended up?
You know, going from a top five pick to until
he left the Browns, who already had three quarterbacks in
the room and another quarterbow.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, well we you know again, I'll get to that.
But you know, the silly joke that one of my
friend said was like when the Browns call, that was
the second prank call, you know, but love that, you know,
I can't say that Dan and I are like super

(45:13):
close and know each other that well. We did a
show together and I think it was seven together, six
or oh seven, so it's been a long time. But
you know, I there's obviously this was a big story
and I have no issue with Shador. Again, another one
of my best buddiess daughter goes to Colorado. Another one

(45:35):
of my buddies' kids goes to Colorado. They were at
every game, they flew out all the time. I was
getting all these things that very high on Shador. Obviously,
you have a guy like Travis Hunter. To me, the
reason I told Micah that I think he's more of
a third round pick fell to five, and you gotta remember, right,
I mean, this becomes a story, but these are massive investments.

(45:58):
You're still talking about one of the top two hundred
players on the planet coming out and getting drafted. I
think sometimes stories get manufactured around stuff now that this
is a three day television media event, but you know,
they got to find things to report on. With Shador,
my thought, again, for whatever it's worth, was a there's

(46:21):
a concept that I talk about a lot when I'm teaching,
which is the difference between a greenhouse flower and a
forest flower. And a forest flower is like a dandelion
might not be the most beautiful flower, might have a
little holes in the leaves or a little brown around
the edges, but it can grow in any weather, you know.
And a greenhouse flower is an orchid. It's the most

(46:41):
beautiful thing in the world. But it needs a stick,
It needs a certain humidity, it needs a certain care Shador.
When we were doing the show with Dion way back
when he was coaching Shadoor. When Shador was seven years
old playing quarterback in pee wee football or pop one
or whatever that was. He followed him to junior high
out in too high school, both colleges. That doesn't take

(47:03):
anything away from Dianna as a coach or a genius
when it comes to the game, but Shador has been
into greenhouse. This stuff has been built around him. That
in itself is like, well, what happens when he's out
of the greenhouse in a new system of a new coach.
That's just one thing. Second, you know they talk about
the toughness, Well, the toughness is based on getting up

(47:25):
after getting hit, which means you're getting hit a lot.
There is the tape don't lie, as they say. So
he does hold onto the ball, try to make plays.
That's awesome in college sometimes the liability in the pros.
You know, so these are little things that I think
allow him to kind of when you look at him.
Even the thing about like when I read the basic

(47:47):
there said nothing to do with me. When I just
read the kind of coaches review of him, and it's like,
not the greatest athlete, the greatest escapability, not the strongest arm,
incredibly tough and incredibly accurate and a really good decision maker.
And for some reason that came through to me. It's like, Okay,
so he's Chad Pennington. Now the Jets won with Chad Pennington.

(48:09):
They won some games. But are you spending the second,
third fourth picking the draft on Chad Pennington or are
you developing that quarterback a little bit later? And I
think shador take away the name, take away the hype.
The talent itself felt to me more second third round talent,
which is still great, right, that's not like terrible. We're

(48:29):
talking degrees and investment and the fifth year option and
all the things that make somebody a first round pick.
Then you add in the media hype, You add in
the cameras following everywhere. You add in the fact that
a coach or an owner has to accept that the
cameras are on his dad. His dad's gonna have a
monster microphone. I think a lot of these things go

(48:50):
into decisions of what are you trying to bring into
the building, what's the culture you're trying to build, And
then you end up with the Cleveland Browns, in desperate
need of an identity and desperate need of a young
quarterback to build around. Have all that, it's actually a
terrific landing spot for him where he can thrive and
maybe become. You know, if he makes a difference in Cleveland,

(49:11):
I mean, that's that's making a difference, and so I'm
rooting for him. I think the whole world is rooting
for him now. And I think maybe if he got
picked with the second third, fourth pick in the draft.
The whole world might not be rooting for him now,
so even that story's turned very quickly. But I think
that being the story of the draft and then having
a good career in the NFL are two completely different things.

(49:33):
Whatever direction you're looking at, you know, paging Tony Mandrich.
So it's like, I think Shador is a Look, Dion's
a good guy. He's a good dad. I remember when
we were working together. You know, Dion had it in
his contract with the NFL Network when he was on
the NFL Network doing the Sundays that he was on

(49:54):
a Sunday night plane the minute day rap because he
drove his kids to school Monday morning. You know, he's
a loving guy, a caring dad. He's he's on it,
and he's got two kids in the NFL. And anybody
that wants to read negativity into that somehow, I think
is doing it, is finding it. But Shador's got his
chance like everybody else, and he's got to prove it.

(50:15):
But I think I think almost all that stuff worked
against him a little bit in the fact that if
he was a super high draft pick, then the hype
gets exponentially heightened. And the hype that he already brings
to the table explodes, and then the reality shows and
this and that and all that, and so you know,
if he can, if he can focus on football and

(50:36):
do all those right things, and even being in a
media market for a lot of better term like Cleveland,
I think all those things are actually in his favor.
And I think being in New York or under the
big microscope and being a high draft pick, you know,
might have put might have put expectations on him that
that who knows a year or two in who knows
what that would have done.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
So, you know, and to put at but to put
a bow on that. And it's something Lewis Riddicks said
when he was trying to calm Mel Kuiper down. Who
just took it like a personal affront that this guy slid.
It was kind of embarrassing. And Lewis Riddict just put
his head down and he said, Mel, the draft has spoken.
And I was like, you can say that for any
NFL draft that works forever that say what you want.

(51:17):
The draft spoke. This is what it was. And you
know what, everything we just talked about his slide doesn't matter. Now,
None of it matters. It's gonna matter in his paycheck
for sure. But if you can play now, you can play.
It doesn't matter where you were.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Taking and you show me, you show me. Look, there's
thirty two gms and thirty two coaches in the NFL.
It's one of the hardest jobs on the planet to get.
You think somebody's fucking around because of anything else than
what's going to help them win. No, So that's like
you said the draft spoke, it's like kind of a parcels.
You are your record. Yes, a mid round draft pick,

(51:54):
and I hope he thrives in the NFL. I hope
he leads Cleveland in the playoffs. Everyone will be rooting
for him now. And I think that's an interesting result
of all of that. I mean, there's a oh, go ahead, Sam.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I was just going to say, there was a report
out there that Cleveland jumped the.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Eagles because the Eagles were thinking about taking them, So
it became there was a rumor. I think we and
Rappaport said it was kind of well known because you
guys know the NFL. Once you start making phone calls
on draft day to one or two teams, the whole
NFL knows what you're trying to do. It's a huge
pipeline of information and Ian head. It was kind of
well known at that point that if he's there the Eagles,

(52:32):
by the way, you.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Know, as as a fan, and you guys are obviously
elevated fans, thoughtful, you know, really into it.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
We gave you the wrong impression.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
No, no, no, I mean we gave it away, but
really right, so we know how important the trenches are, right,
we know how important the offensive line is in the
defensive line. And the two time national champion, Outland Trophy
winner center for Ohio State doesn't even get drafted. He's

(53:03):
an unsigned free agent. So it's not an exact science.
And a lot of talent falls and and then a
brock pertial happened, and you know, where does that guy
come from? Like I said, he's in, he's drafted. He's in.
To me, that's the story. And uh, and now they
can recalibrate how they want to present media around it.
I think a little bit. But you know, I'm I'm

(53:26):
happy for him and and and it's interesting just as
a love of football thing, you know, I teach at
Clemson University now. Growing up in New York City. I
didn't really have a college team. You know, you don't.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
It's we don't either. We have Penn State, which is
across the state.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
But it's not like the Columbia Lions or really something
awake day, you know. And so I married a South
Carolina Gamecock, became a huge Gamecock fan. I mean it
was like unfettered snow. I was like, oh, I now
have a college football identity, and now to be teaching
at Clemson made such an interest dynamic. And I've become
such a Saturday guy.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
And I love college It's religion down there.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Oh my gosh, It's unbelievable, and it I think it
allows me to become a better fan across the board
and certainly be even more prepared for the drafts because
I know college football is so much better than I
ever had. And I'll always be a game Cock fan
at Hart, but rooting for a program like Clemson and
what Dabo does, and I mean, it's really infectious. So
that's been a really cool, additive part of my life.

(54:27):
And I'm a consultant with the South Carolina Football Hall
of Fame. We just had our induction ceremony and I
was telling Mike. I just got to spend when I
say we, I'm a new consultant with him the Football
Hall of Fame in South Carolina, which covers high school,
college and pro and is really an organization that encourages
good values and young people and all that. It's wonderful.

(54:51):
Deuce Staley was just inducted two weeks ago. So I
just spent a couple hours Reduce talking football with him,
talking South Carolina foot ball, but talking Philadelphia Eagles football
and Pennsylvania football. And you know, it's really fun to
now also see it on this side where he's a coach,
he's a you know, he's a master of the game

(55:14):
and a teacher and all those things. And so it's
fun to see the game full circle a little bit
right now.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
I will say and stays that you worked with Deuce
years ago, didn't.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
You thought I've seen him go? He was. I did
a piece with him in terms of a scouting piece
on the opposite the opposing defenses and with Troy Vincent
on the opposing offenses, and we worked together and Troy
knew everybody dos new no one. But again, as an

(55:46):
offensive guy, you're not really doing a ton of homework
on you're worrying about your holes, that your hitting and
who your your assignments are. But as it went on
and he got older, and the next time I interviewed
him was in Arizona the night before the Eagles played
the Cardinals, when Kurt Warner was there and the Cardinals
went to the Super Bowl to play the Steelers. I
interviewed him. He was a coach with the Eagles. Totally

(56:07):
different guy, very very much thoughtful. He wasn't the kid anymore.
And I always give a lot of slack to youth
because as you get older that we did dumb things,
we said stupid things, were did childish things. At times.
He mature and you get wiser, and he was much
more mature and fucking coach speak and was very professional

(56:28):
and not saying he was unprofessional back then, but he
was a player. He was kind of like, this is great.
I'm a player now, I make a lot of money
and what do you need? All right, I'll give you
a standard sound by that guy.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
He always used to say, yeah, oh yeah, he's he's
a nosy knows you around the football. Everyone was nosy
around the football. Everyone was nosy around the football. So
that was a joke with us. But he became much
more mature with Andy's crew and actually had some opportunities
to be an offensive coordinator. But he it was I
just got a chance to see when he was young

(57:00):
to when he kind of transformed into like he became
a man, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
The guy I met two weeks ago was a stage
and a loving dude and was so appreciative of everything
that had happened to him on his journey.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
And yes, you get that way when you appreciate Sometimes
these things are taken away from you too quickly, and
then you really appreciate what you had when you look
back on it. And now he's really embracing what he's doing.
Now he's doing It's cool.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I had a funny moment there because Troy Brown was
another one of the guys that was inducted into the
into the South Carolina Football Hall of Fame the other week,
and I remember when he first walked in the room
and I looked across the room and I'm like, Giants
beat your ass in the Super Bowl, and I can't
wait till like and by the time I kind of
met him, it had been made clear to me, though, No,
he's a Giants coach right now. He's on the Giants

(57:49):
coaching staff.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
And I was like, Troy, right, Oh, it's totally different. Absolutely,
it's a totlet.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Different man, totally. Well.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I do want to be mind of Sam's time here,
because he's.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
What I got to go in a few minutes, because
I'm actually pitching a TV show in about ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Good luck, friend, this is your.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Show, this is your.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
If I could prepare for every pitch of my life doing.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
This, well, Sam, I can. I think I speak for
the guys. Whenever you want to come on, you're more
than welcome. I mean I could talk to you for
in the two hours.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Hey what why don't we? Why don't we? If you
need a guest the Tuesday after the Giants Eagles play next,
put me here in no matter what happens, we'll talk
it down, we'll break it down, we'll see where everything
is at the moment.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
But again, thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Thanks for giving me a chance to talk a little
bit about Clemson University, about the South Carolina Football Hall
of Fame, about Stage thirty two and all the great
production work, but most importantly the opportunity to talk football
is uh is a dream come true for me, So
I hope to hope to be back.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
We appreciate it. And wait, what do you in the
box right now?

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Gosh, I don't know if I'm want to talk about pitching.
We're pitching a We're pitching a one hour procedural which
is like c S I Law and Order, a show
about a kind of a law enforcement type of show
where there's a new case every week and a couple
of cases that that will go several episodes. But it's

(59:22):
you know, after doing genius uh for the last chapter. Uh.
And I'm actually gonna say this in the pitch. This
is my kind of opening spiel, so I'll try it
out here. So, you know, to be to be to
be a subjective genius, you know, spoil alert, you have
to be dead. You know, you've lived a life. You're

(59:43):
you're you're deceased. And now we're doing Einstein's life, where
we're doing uh, Picasso's life, and and and I really
wanted to do a show. And I've been hungry to
do a show where we stay with a character over
time and that character has a long term relationship with
the audience over multiple seasons. And and this is a
show that you know, if we're blessed enough to get

(01:00:03):
a chance to do it, it'll do that because this
character won't, you know, I won't won't do something incredible
with their lives, impact society and die every eight episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Green lit, it's green lit. Have your people call my
keep my people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Everybody's people will call everybody's people. But all I know
is now, you guys are my people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
So I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Thank you so much. Sam. We appreciate it that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Yeah, I worked for Fox for thirteen years. Don't mention
my name, and you should be good. My friend, mention
your name, don't mention my name. I got it, all right, guys,
NFC appreciate it. Yeah, all right, thanks Sam, thankful, appreciate it.
Sam Socker. He's phenomenal, guys, Michael, I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Told you it was actually went even better than I thought.
He's full of just cool information. He knows this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
We'll dude, just cool dude.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
And generally good guy man. He's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Appreciate it. We try to go thirty minutes. Al much
in the sixty minute mark. Good jobs, good job, guys.
All right, I'm gonna put this up for shortly. We'll
cut it up and we'll rock and roll. You know,
we're sober watching once again for Mike Warren and Sean Lockner.
We are in the Philly Post and we'll catch you
next time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Killy awesome,