Episode 1 – Mr Lyan, the world's greatest bartender

Ryan Chetiyawardana – a.k.a. Mr Lyan – isn’t just the world’s greatest bartender and the mind behind some of the world's best bars; he’s also a devoted traveler who has spent years getting to grips with ingredients, trends, and tastes from around the world.

For our first episode, Mr Lyan shares his insights and experience with co-founder Tom, touching on everything from plant kingdoms and comfort zones to the bar scenes of Athens, Melbourne and Edinburgh – as well as the emotional science behind our favorite flavors. Oh, and we learnt that animal stomach makes for a surprisingly delicious cocktail ingredient.

Follow Mr Lyan on Instagram

Episode Transcript

Owen Vince (00:00):
You're listening to the Pursuit of Feeling, a
podcast by Black Tomato.
In this series, we want toexplore not only the world of
travel, but the world of emotionand what it ultimately means to
feel our way through the world.
Or to put it another way, whatdoes travel do to our brains and
our hearts, and even our souls,when we set off for new places

(00:25):
and faraway shores?

Tom Marchant (00:28):
On this episode, we're joined by one of
hospitality's most pioneeringminds, ryan Chetterwardner, also
known as Mr Lion, named theworld's best bartender and the
visionary behind bars that havebeen celebrated as the best in
the world.
Ryan has redefined how weexperience drinks.
With a background in art, foodand biology, his deep knowledge
of plants and creativity pushesthe boundaries of what a

(00:49):
cocktail can be.
Spas aren't just places todrink.
They're designed to evokeemotion, memory and connection.
Just like travel, they createmoments that move us, feelings
that stay with us.
Today, we explore how Ryancrafts these feelings with
flavour, space and theinspiration he finds in travel.
I'm delighted to have with me asa guest on our Pursuit of

(01:12):
Feeling podcast today goodfriend Ryan Chetterwardner, also
known as Mr Lion, who isglobally renowned as being one
of the most innovative people inthe world of hospitality,
particularly around cocktailsand the bars.
He has won numerous accoladesand continues to, from being
named the world's best bartenderto owning bars that have been
named the best bar in the world,and he is a constant source of

(01:32):
innovation and inspiration forso many people in all industries
, and it's an absolute pleasurefor us to have Ryan on the
podcast today.
So, ryan, welcome.

Mr Lyan (01:40):
Thank you, that's a very kind intro and lovely to be
able to catch up, as always.

Tom Marchant (01:44):
Yeah, always.
So thank you for coming on.
So Pursuit of Things podcastfor us is about exploring the
relationship between travel andthe emotions it can create.
When you travel, we've alwaysseen it's been quite an
interesting connection and forthis we want to speak to people
who we also think you know weknow you travel, who understand
the role that kind of emotionfeeling can play in their life.
And on that note, perhaps youjust kick off telling us a

(02:06):
little bit about yourself andyour relationship with travel.

Mr Lyan (02:09):
I mean, I I'm very fortunate that I do get to
travel a lot, no-transcript.

(02:32):
So you're going to go and seefriends.
You want to be able to checkout the way that people are
working and doing things from adifferent point of view.
But it's also that window intoa different approach to things.
How do we gather in differentparts of the world?
How do we use food to bringpeople together?
And so it's been this wonderfulopportunity to be able to, you
know, see parts that I might nothave thought to kind of like
hit as a holiday destination,kind of go out and discover some

(02:55):
of these wonderful parts of theglobe that are just fascinating
and have a very differentapproach to what I'd grown up
with.

Tom Marchant (03:01):
To that point growing up, was travel always an
important thing to you.
What role did it play in yourlife?
And was there?
Did you have a feeling thatkind of it would impact or
influence your work or what youdo as you got?

Mr Lyan (03:12):
older.
We were always taught to bevery curious.
We grew up in the UK, butparents from Sri Lanka, and it
was very kind of instilled in usthat the world was a wide place
and we should be kind of likereceptive to the idea of
thinking on it in a in a kind ofmuch, kind of broader manner.
But you know, when we were verylittle we we didn't travel
heaps outside of the UK.
We would do kind of familytrips with other friends and it

(03:33):
would be different parts of theUK, maybe over to France.
But it was probably a littlelater, when we we'd grown a
little and it would probably beless kind of troublesome for our
parents to take us on a plane.
We started to to kind ofventure out into other places,
and some of it again probablyfor ease and having three young
kids, you know, going a bit morearound Europe.
But we would go to Tunisia, wewent and visited family in Sri

(03:54):
Lanka and we started to kind ofbranch out into other places.
And I think again, that idea ofthis curiosity and to kind of be
receptive to a different way ofthinking was maybe not so
overtly.
It wasn't like we were, you know, told pay attention to this or
kind of see these things.
But I think our parents pointedout stuff and we were, you know

(04:14):
, encouraged to try something,even if it was a food or a new
activity or going to see adifferent site, and I think it
really did start to kind of likeseed those ideas in in all of
as youngsters and both mysiblings have traveled
extensively.
Actually, considering the factthat they don't do it for work,
they've probably done it just asmuch as I have I think we
really all got very excited bythe idea of those different

(04:36):
feelings you have when you do goto a new place, and I think you
know exactly the sentiment youpointed out.
It's not that you're justseeing a new landscape or a new
vista to be able to look at.
There's a a very differentfeeling that comes with being in
that different place and thatdifferent kind of way of
thinking about stuff yeah, it'strue, isn't it?

Tom Marchant (04:53):
I think when we started the company we, we
looked around the industry andwould see that a lot of other
companies, very good companies,but they would list what they
offered according to justdestination and almost like
activities.
Um, so it might be the brochureor a website and what we felt
was missing was almost.
But they would list what theyoffered according to just
destination and almost likeactivities.
So it might be a brochure or awebsite and what we felt was
missing was almost like from apersonal experience.

(05:14):
But the things that stick inour heads is like how you
remember feeling, and it wasjust that language wasn't really
there.
And the more we looked at that,the more we thought there might
be an opportunity to start abusiness.
But I think we also thenstarted just connecting it to
other industries.
You know so, when you go andhave meals, you're going
drinking places.
You yes, you might talk aboutthe specific product, but it's
always you'd be thinking aboutwhat did that kind of create
within me?
Yeah, um, I guess on thatyou've created and pioneered so

(05:36):
much, you know, in in the drinkspace specifically.
Was there something in yourchildhood or as you grew up that
kind of led you there.
I'm just wondering how you gotinto this world where you've
become such a such a leader interms of shaping people's
experiences.

Mr Lyan (05:51):
I mean, you really hit the nail on the head in terms of
you know that idea.
It's about how you feel in in asituation, and I think that's
always been our approach.
It's going.
It doesn't matter what we puton a plate or we put in a glass,
that's not the product, it'show you feel as a result of it.
And I think you know that wasvery much.
You know my parents didn'treally drink, but they would use

(06:12):
food and drink as a way tobring people together and I
think that was the thing thatalways fascinated me and even
with my studies, you know, goingfrom, you know chefing, fine
art, biology, philosophy, all ofthose things.
They seem quite odd, jumparounds, but to me they're all
about people and I think I wasalways very intrigued by that,

(06:33):
having seen, you know, myparents socialize in that way
and kind of bring peopletogether.
And you see all those wonderfulmoments and those things that
etch in your memory of you knowwe were together at that point
and you don't remember what youate but you remember how you
felt and really thinking abouthow special that was as a you
know, if you can get toencourage that, if you can bring
that to life in a regular wayfor people that's it's quite a
magical thing.
I didn't really know thathospitality was going to be that

(06:55):
as a as a mechanism.
I was just working in it whileI was doing these various
different studies.
But as soon as you do experiencethat I think this is the reason
why know that bug bites peopleand they stay in the industry
like that, you get exposed toexactly that feedback.
Somebody says this is the bestnight of my life, or you know
you see them light up aboutsomething, and or they'll
recount a memory of beingsomewhere where it's been this

(07:17):
incredible meal or this momentin this, you know this bar or
whatever it might be.
It's exactly the same as thosemoments on travel, right like
it's uh, you know you gosomewhere and it changes, like
it fundamentally changes you ina way, and that's a very
wonderful thing to be able tokind of work around and, yeah, I
found it very exciting to bepart of it's funny, we, some
years ago, and we still told youthe idea, there was this travel

(07:39):
offering based around thisexpression of do you remember
the night when?

Tom Marchant (07:42):
yeah and it's something that we all, or or the
day when and it's somethingthat we all have these memories
of there was a night, and itmight be, you know, you might be
at a tiny Greek taverna on abeach and there's a sunset and
everything just kind of cametogether.
And it's this combination ofmaybe it was amazing food, maybe
the music, maybe it was thebreeze, maybe it was the
temperature of the drink, but itall just kind of came together

(08:04):
to create this incredible memoryand experience.
And what was interesting, andas we dug into that, was almost
looking at the psychology of the, of the, the aspects that
contributed to how you felt, andand again in travel.
It hasn't always been like that, it's been like quite
manufactured or quite, quitebinary, but when you start
looking at those bits around theedges, um, those are the things

(08:25):
that you sort of tend toremember, or when you make the
connection to those again,that's actually what's creating
these special moments, rightyeah, and I think all of those
things are tools that addtogether, right?

Mr Lyan (08:33):
you can't codify those things all the time, right?
Like it's um, the magic comeswhen they're just in the perfect
unison, and it's it's very muchthe same in the hospitality
world and when you, you know, wewere talking a bit about
innovation and I think I'vealways been excited by trying to
push things forward, because Ithink, you know, the world
evolves around us.
We need to look at new ways ofof exploring those things and I

(08:55):
think a key part ofdeliciousness or a key part of
like a core memory is it takesyou a little out your comfort
zone.
It expressed something,expresses something new, but I
think it is that.
It's the unexpected aspect ofit.
You know, you can't just writedown the formula for it.
All those things have cometogether and it's that secret
space that's managed to align.

Tom Marchant (09:15):
It's like water.
I love that bit about out ofyour comfort zone because even
specifically before you've hadit, there's an emotion being
created which is almost likeyou're daring yourself, you're
daring yourself, you'rechallenging yourself, which in
and of itself gives you a buzz.
That I'm doing.
I remember, I think, when youopened White Lion off Robson
Square and came along and Ithink in those days you were
doing these salt and vinegar orfish and chip shots yeah, Do you

(09:38):
remember these?

Mr Lyan (09:38):
Yeah, there was a.
Yes, I can't remember what itwas.
It was like a sour, like herbalsalty shot.

Tom Marchant (09:45):
Yeah, it was amazing.
But I remember coming into thebar and you're saying try this,
and it sounded so unusual butinteresting and I think it just
fueled your curiosity.
If you're a curious person, youjust wanted to know that and I
think those are things that justmakes life all the richer.
If you're trying things I mean,on that note, in your quest for
innovation, do you ever pickplaces to travel to to seek

(10:06):
inspiration?
Or do you go there with aspecific plan or do you say,
look, I just this area seemsinteresting, I'm gonna go and
immerse myself in there and seehow it makes me feel, or see
what I can take back.
I mean, does that play a rolein your kind of prep and
planning?

Mr Lyan (10:20):
100 and it might be that you'll you'll hear about a
certain scene and that mighthave buzzed out of somewhere and
you know it's alwaysfascinating what's kind of
spurred that and sometimes it's.
You know, I lived in, worked inEdinburgh for a long time and
there was just this wonderfulmoment where, you know, there
was some great people thatmanaged to get the right formula
of things together where theywere able to get spaces, they

(10:40):
had the right kind of support ofthings, but it became
exponentially weighted as ascene in in amongst the rest of
the uk and you get that indifferent parts of the world and
you follow that because it'sit's super fascinating, it's
kind of happening in.
You know, athens is a goodexample of this at the moment.
Actually, from a hospitalitypoint of view, there's just been
this great explosion of thingshappening in the city and you

(11:01):
want to go check that out, youwant to understand what is
happening and it's not just asingular place, it's not one bar
doing it, it's a collectivethat seems to be kind of hitting
its stride.
But it also might come from,you know, a very different
landscape.
So I remember the first time Iwent to kind of south africa and
you know it's its own plantkingdom like.
That's fascinating to mebecause there are, you know,

(11:23):
species and and not just as abiologist but as a, you know,
from a flavor point of viewyou're getting to discover
things that you can't tryanywhere else.
And I had the same thing when Iwas exploring, you know, mexico
or Australia, and you're goingthis is stuff that I have no
frame of reference to and that'sfascinating.
It's taking me out of mycomfort zone, it's making me
kind of break away from some ofthe foundations or kind of like

(11:46):
usual lanes that I would work in, and that's really kind of just
always going to be such awonderful inspiration.
Other times it might be.
You know, japan remains one ofmy favorite places to visit and,
you know you get to delve intothis kind of wonderful kind of
link between history andmodernity in such a seamless way
and I find that so inspiring tokind of see.
You know they haven't let go ofsome of the things that have

(12:09):
been part of like an ancienttradition, but they've also not
kind of fetishized it.
Where they're going, we're notgoing to let the world change
around us, and I think any ofthose things are great things to
learn from, but I can't thinkof anywhere that I've been in
the world where I haven't takensomething away from it.

Tom Marchant (12:24):
The biology side of you, which is fascinating,
and you're known for yourrelationships with plants and
seeds.
Just take South Africa as anexample.
When you're going out there andyou know there are plants you
can't find anywhere else, what'sthe process that you go out, in
terms of going out and saying,right, I want to discover, I
want to immerse myself.
How?

Mr Lyan (12:40):
do you?

Tom Marchant (12:40):
go about setting that up.

Mr Lyan (12:42):
I like reading into those things.
So I will definitely do a bitof pre-research and obviously
you've got to be very respectfulof the landscapes, both from a
kind of societal point of viewand ecological point of view.
But I'll just try and speak topeople.
Really, that's my key thing andI think I'm always intrigued by
different types of expertise.
It's not that I need to justspeak to a winemaker or a

(13:02):
bartender or a chef.
Sometimes you kind of speak topeople and it's kind of born
from a.
You know, this is the geographyof the landscape, this is where
the kind of like cultures andthe societies grew out of it and
they, they approach theseplants or these herbs in this
particular way, or they preservethis or, you know, this changed
the landscape in a particularmanner.
So it kind of it strays intoanthropology quite quickly.

(13:22):
But then you'll also have thesewonderful insights where it
will be an important and itcould be a medicinal thing, it
could be a historic thing, andyou can quickly start kind of
seeing how it strays into thekind of territory of agronomists

(13:48):
and, and you know, peoplestarting to look at it as a
commodity.
Um, and you know, you go around, you know seeing some of the
stuff that has become famousexports from places the wine in
in south africa is unbelievable,it's my favorite wines in the
world but also some of thesekind of wilder finbos plants
like the you know rooibos, whicheverybody knows but you.
I kind of had this vagueunderstanding of what it was.

(14:11):
But then, speaking with withpeople that you know, uh, it's a
, it's a wild plant, so how dothey tend to it?
What does it mean for you know,the rest of the landscape?
How do they carefully manageharvesting something like that?
And then, as popularity booms,you know how do they kind of
make sure that they?
You know this is important partof the the history of the area,

(14:31):
but also it's a link tolivelihoods.
So you know, how do youmaintain that kind of balance
and I think that side of it isalso really, really interesting
it's amazing, like the integritythat causes see what you do is
just astounding.

Tom Marchant (14:43):
It's amazing.
Have you ever had anyexperiences where you've been
exploring and you foundsomething that's blown your mind
, but a very developed you knowand said is an audience, say, in
that territory, ready for thisor how would it adapt?
I know part of who you are isthat you lead and you challenge
people's thoughts and so peoplewill follow.
But do you ever find timeswhere you get someone and go

(15:04):
people's thoughts and so peoplefollow, but do you ever find
times where you get someone go?
I love this was interesting,but I'm not sure if, say, a
wider audience is ready for thisyet or you have to find
somewhere in between tointroduce it yeah, a hundred
percent, and I think sometimesit's funny.

Mr Lyan (15:15):
You talked about white lion I.
You know when we're.
When we first wanted to openthat bar, I think you know it
took two years to find a.
You know we've been working onthings for a while.
Had we opened when the firstidea came out, it would have
bombed.
Time and place is reallyimportant and sometimes it's
very hard to kind of transportsomething into a different space

(15:35):
.
And you know audiences havedifferent approaches to things.
They have a different toleranceof certain things and sometimes
it does.
It just needs to be seeded in aparticular way, particularly if
it's, you know, a little odd asan ingredient.
And you know we're very spoiledin london, for example, because
it's such a diverse scene herethat people might have come

(15:55):
across it and you know, fine, wemight have put it in a very
different context and it we'relucky that we have a trust in us
that people are going.
Okay, you're not doing this forgimmick, it's not pretentious,
you're not just doing it for theshock factor.
We kind of want to know whyit's in there.
Um, trying to think of anexample, but we've used some
pretty weird stuff at the moment.
Okay, for one.
There's a, there's afermentation that we use a sheep

(16:16):
pancreas in at the moment inseed library and that's not
something that sounds inherentlydelicious.
Um, and you know, we tookinspiration from different
cultures where they are usingother parts of the animal to
kind of ferment things oftenthings like preserving or things
like cheeses and stuff likethat and so we took something

(16:37):
that is, you know, verynormalized in certain settings,
transported it into somethingvery different and you know we
have to then connect people tothat to allow them to to to
again feel like they can trustus and that it's going to lead
to something delicious.
But we, we know we need to beable to be in a, in a situation
where that's going to work.

(16:57):
Yeah, I suppose in all of thebars we've got a little bit of
that trust built in.
But if we were doing an eventor we're doing a collaboration
somewhere in a different part ofthe world, it's not going to
make sense just to plug that inyeah, it's funny.

Tom Marchant (17:08):
I think like one of the um emotional feelings we
see people pursuing is feelingthat you're learning or being
educated.
I think so much of what you dois, as well as giving a great
you know, tasting or feelingexperience, you're educating
people.
People are curious, want toknow more and I think can get
really bought into you know,discovering and actually kind of
becoming more informed.
I mean, is that is that kind ofit's not for shock factor to

(17:30):
say, but just understanding thatand that education, is that
something that you often bringinto when you're developing
stuff is like, because you do,you see yourself as a an
educator of people coming inyeah, and we, we definitely want
to, you know, without making itsomething that they have to
like abide to it's like as a wayof prescribing too much, but
it's certainly something whereyou want to bring them along the
journey.

Mr Lyan (17:51):
And I think you're right.
People are curious, but alsopeople.
It's hard to understand yoursense of taste, even if you
study it.
So you might know.
you know your favorite music oryour favorite paintings to look
at and we're taught to be ableto analyze those things we're
not taught to think on our senseof taste in the same way and so
being able to to kind of helppeople kind of connect to things

(18:14):
and understand a bit more aboutthemselves but kind of like
start to explore this kind ofvery wide world in a way that
they feel a little bit moreinformed about it or they've got
a little bit of a connectionlike how do you even connect the
language to it, let aloneunderstand where those flavors
start to come from and what elsethey relate to.
So there is an element of theeducation in there and kind of

(18:35):
bringing people into that worldso they can feel a little bit
more kind of empowered to thinkabout their food in a different
way you touched upon it earlier.

Tom Marchant (18:42):
Just keen to hear your thoughts more, because I
know how much it means to youbut Japan as a destination.
So when did your sort of loveaffair with Japan first start
and how has that continued tothis day, and what does it mean
to you as a place thatstimulates and creates emotions
for you, and how does that comeback into your work, perhaps?

Mr Lyan (18:58):
Yeah, I mean I think I first travelled to Japan about
16 years.
I honestly it blew my mind.
It was.
It was such a new kind ofapproach to different ways of
and we saw everything from youknow countryside, big cities, um

(19:20):
, kind of delved into very kindof like humble kind of street
side style things, through tonothing super fancy, because,
again, we're still a student atthat stage student budgets yes,
but it I think it's a reallyimportant thing to know, because
everybody thinks Japan's goingto be super expensive.
And actually being able to seeit from that kind of very

(19:41):
different side, to thentraveling for it from much more
of a work perspective, visitingsome of the whiskey distilleries
but then also meeting artisanswho were kind of doing things in
the country, it was.
You know, there's such a vastarray of things to explore in a
very accessible way.
I think that was one of thethings that really amazed me was

(20:01):
was how willing people were tokind of welcome you into if you
were curious to discoversomething.
Of course you have tounderstand and be respectful of
the customs that are particularof there, but honestly it's like
if you can be polite andrespectful, you everybody will
welcome you in and you knowseeing everything from
traditional paper making towhiskey to going to see, you

(20:22):
know, the mastery of a sushichef, and you know that the fact
that this was things I had avague kind of like exposure to,
to be able to, to go visit andkind of really delve in and and
realize that you know you'reyou're in the presence of things
that have been built forgenerations and it just.
There's a wonderful thing, Ithink, where that could easily

(20:44):
feel like oh my god, I'm nevergoing to be able to master
anything, but actually the flipside is going wow, there's so
much to explore yeah and youknow you can.
You can spend time withsomething and you know this is a
person who is quite widelyregarded as the best in the
world of what they do and theystill see themselves as a
student.
It's a really lovely thing tobe able to go see and I think

(21:05):
one of the wonderful things I'veloved about japan is is is that
you can like access thatfeeling what?

Tom Marchant (21:10):
what is it about japan that talked earlier about?
It sort of it recognises andcelebrates its heritage, but it
also fiercely embraces the new.
What is it that kind of createsthat within Japan?
Because it just in any, itseems, a lot of industries eyes
turn to Japan, to kind of whereinteresting things are happening

(21:31):
and where people are looking tobe inspired or challenged or
even overwhelmed by the wonderof things.

Mr Lyan (21:37):
Yeah, you had that it's a really interesting one, and I
was speaking with a gentlemannamed ueno-san, who's a an old
mentor of mine.
He he's a master bartender whohas a bar called bar high five
in tokyo.
He's also hilarious, he's he'sa absolutely like you know, one
of the world's greatestbartenders and also just this
like brilliantly funny man.
But he was talking about the,the ancient japanese name for

(22:01):
the country being wa, whichmeans harmony.
So before it was even termedjapan, this idea, this
philosophy of, you know, balancebeing part of of the, the
approach of the culture, and sohow they kind of think deeply
into everything kind of stemsfrom.
And you know, that's that's mekind of trying to to kind of

(22:24):
like take a view as an outsider,to kind of see where these
things come from.
But you can then see wherethings like kaizen, the
continual improvement idea,comes from, because that is part
of this idea of harmony.
You know, everything else isshifted.
We want to be able to kind ofwork out how this balances as a
result.
We need to keep refining it.
I think it's really interestingseeing some of those things
about where, particularly whereit's been a product from outside

(22:47):
of japan that's come in andthey've applied, this kind of
idea of kaizen and this balanceand this different improvement
to it, has led to some reallywonderful things, and so I think
I think it's ingrained in theculture to look at things in
this quite balanced way and doyou bring that approach into
your bars and your business interms of refining?

Tom Marchant (23:07):
or I mean, we talked a bit earlier about sort
of menu shifting and stuff yeah,I mean, I know you're not
someone who sort of sits still,but also sometimes you know you
get a formula that works.
You know you also want to stickto that.
How do you get that balance?

Mr Lyan (23:20):
I actually think we don't stick to a formula.

Tom Marchant (23:22):
I think that's one of the key ones.

Mr Lyan (23:23):
I think, you know, one of the founding principles was
anybody in the team canchallenge anything.
So if you're brand new to thecompany, if you to the company,
if you think that we're notdoing something in the right way
, we're not precious about thosethings, and I think actually,
you know, I hadn't reallythought about it as a kind of
mirror idea of kind of heritageand modernity like we talked
about with japan, but even thestuff that was at the beginning

(23:45):
of the company, there's nothingthat's a rule like.
I think we have things that weum are guided by, there's like
overarching aspects, aspects ofthe philosophy, but there's very
little that we, really verylittle that we'll set in stone.
You know, ultimately we want tobe able to improve kind of
systems, because that, you know,allows people to focus on the
bits that we think matter.

(24:06):
And to me, the experience ofbeing in our bars, again, it's
not about the drinks or anythinglike that, it's about, you know
, the team treating you as anindividual to help you have the
most amazing time that day.

Tom Marchant (24:15):
Actually, well, that's please, you raise that,
because that's the thing I wantto talk about.
Like you know, the emotion ofthe experience you have in your
bars.
You've just answered in a waythat you're thinking about
that's beyond just theincredible drinks that have been
served.
How do you approach that?
I'm not saying you have not aformula, but clearly it's a
point of important consideration.
So do you start by saying thatwhen someone steps through the

(24:36):
doors of one of our places, wewant them to feel a particular
way, or is it more letting itkind of unfold organically?
How do you come at creatingthat exceptional?

Mr Lyan (24:44):
feeling.
It is about letting it unfoldorganically, because one of the
things I love when I move fromfrom kitchens to bars, I love
the fact that bars wereunstructured.
You know, you sit at a table,you kind of know what's
happening, you buy into whateverthat restaurant and that chef's
kind of product is, whereas youmight come into a bar for a
date, you might come in becauseyou've had a long day, you might

(25:07):
be having a meeting, you mightbe throwing a party, whatever it
might be.
The range of emotions is very,very wide, and so the key thing
that we do with the teams is isempower them to be human, be
themselves and understand whatit is that that particular
person needs at that moment.
And it might be that they needto feel like there's a big warm

(25:28):
hug around them and they mightbe like need to be left alone
and just kind of give, likeeverything to be seamless, so
they can, you know, get lost intheir conversation.
Or they might be like need tobe left alone and just kind of
give, like everything to beseamless so they can, you know,
get lost in their conversation.
Or it might be that they need,you know, it drawn out of them,
because, again, bars can feelintimidating.
People don't always know aboutwhat their tastes are going to
be.
You know, the drink can be thatthing, that kind of like sparks

(25:49):
, that little moment that takesyour celebration from being okay
.
This is a nice way for us to betogether and kind of share this
moment to.
That's the night we rememberbecause it's associated with
that celebration.
But all of these things justcame together to allow that
feeling to bubble up right tothe surface.
So the key is in theflexibility of it and not
prescribing too much.

(26:09):
You've got to be able to setthe conditions up right, but
it's about going well.
What exactly?
You've got to be able to setthe conditions up right, but
it's about going well.
What exactly what you saidbefore?
How do you want to feel?
in that moment and the more thatwe can understand that without
you know, obviously quizzingpeople too much the more we can
read them from you know theirbody language, their
conversation, all of thosethings then the more that we can

(26:29):
connect that feeling for them.

Tom Marchant (26:32):
There are so many parallels with travel as well.
I'm at that.
We're about kind of creatingthese moments or these
experiences, but it's aboutputting into people, into places
and and like framing them sothat they can discover, but also
with knowing routes that wetake, but without being too, you
know, prescriptive.
A lot of people know how theywant to feel, but obviously one
particular feeling can be verybroad, you know, and so you know
.
It's like this is the momentyou now need to feel like this.

Mr Lyan (26:55):
Yes.

Tom Marchant (26:56):
But you say getting the conditions right and
I think such a crucial thingyou said there is.
The people involved like tounderstand that so much of
hospitality is in the psychologyof understanding people and,
like you said, there's varyingexamples of you know,
understanding why people mightbe in for a particular reason
and adapting to.
That is everything.
It's clear that so much of ofyour travel fuels emotions,

(27:20):
inspires your work.
Are you someone who can, whenyou're not traveling for work,
to not think about work?
I mean, I, I but, but it's, butit's interesting, so why not?
But like, do you, do you traveldifferently to when you're
traveling for work?
Do you have you know?

Mr Lyan (27:36):
what inspires you, or is it more like no, it's
everything's just interestingand I'm kind of sucking the
marrow out of it all the timeyeah, it's very much that the
the beauty is, if I wasn'tworking, this is what I'd be
doing, and so, because we lookto a wide range of interest, of
course it's going to see, youknow, bars and bars and
restaurants, but it's also, youknow, as I said, it's

(27:57):
understanding the landscape,it's understanding different
perspectives, it's going togalleries, it's going to other
cultural institutions, like.
All of those things are exactlywhat I do from a work
perspective is what I would loveto do from a kind of personal
perspective as well.
So the fortunate thing is itdoesn't feel like I'm working
all the time, it just more.
It feels like I get to do allthe things I love on a daily

(28:19):
basis you're being inspired thewhole time.

Tom Marchant (28:20):
Yeah, have you ever been somewhere where you've
built up in your head?
Or perhaps you've heard toomuch about um and you're
expecting a, you know, alife-changing experience?
Or feeling, and you've gotthere and felt underwhelmed.

Mr Lyan (28:32):
Or perhaps it hasn't met the hype, or I don't think
there's anywhere that'sunderwhelmed, because I think,
you know, expectations arereally tough thing and sometimes
you can build things up overlyin your head, but I think any
time it's hinted towards it notbeing quite right.
I've, I've pivoted towards I'mwhat I'm looking for, and so
sometimes I might have thoughtI'm going to go experience one

(28:55):
thing and then I've ended upkind of um, you know, being
amazed by something completelydifferent.
Honestly, I went to to Moscowin, you know, 2008, so a long
time ago, very different world.
Obviously and, um, you know Iwas I was expecting this kind of

(29:15):
, you know, the, the busyness ofsuch a big city and of course
there's there's elements of that.
But I think the thing thatreally astounded me when I was
going through the, theunderground, and you know I was
actually on the way to thecircus, which was really mad,
which is, yeah, you know,obviously, seeing, seeing the,
the circus in in russia, wasincredible, but it was the, you

(29:39):
know it was such a reflection ofthis is what the culture had
been kind of born out of and youknow the approach and the, the
mastery of arts in such abeautiful way, but in such a
public way, was astounding to me.
And it wasn't that nobody hadwarned me about that and it
hadn't been brought up and itactually wasn't really on the
agenda of things, and I wastraveling with somebody who

(30:01):
didn't speak english.
I was doing this shift in thisbar and they said, oh, we've got
you a night off to go to thecircus, and so I was just
following this person.
You know we were communicatingthrough gestures and you know
pointing them going this way,and then I just honestly, I got
into the underground and I wasjust absolutely awestruck by it,
and I think you've got to beable to leave yourself open to

(30:23):
what you don't know and and Ithink that's a really lovely
thing of you might have anexpectation about a place and,
of course, like that, that'ssomething you want to be able to
seek out.
It might be a particular site,but it's just being able to be
aware that there's all of thisother stuff to see as well, and
you can never really controlwhat's going to blow your mind,
and and that's the one of thewonderful things of life, yeah,
I couldn't agree more.

Tom Marchant (30:44):
I think it's it's it's the attitude you take,
isn't it?
It's like if you, I'm, I'm thesame.
It's like I don't believethere's anywhere where, if you
look hard enough or if you'reopen your mind enough that you
can't find something that'sgoing to kind of pique your
interest, or at least you'll beable to reflect on good and bad.
I think one of the dangers oftravel is people saying, well, I
have to go here and I'vethought it's going to be this,

(31:04):
it's not this.
Therefore that place is notright.
And I think also that comesdown to perhaps being blinkered
with your travel.
You'd meet some people who goto a particular city or come
back and say it was terrible.
It's like well, where did yougo?
I went to this obvious touristspot.
It's like well, and it wasclosed, so I didn't do anything
else yeah, and it's like youlose.
That it's funny.
I uh moscow, I totally agree.
I.
I lived there for a period inmy early 20s and I I hadn't.

(31:27):
I think I've been.
I've been reading the lonelyplanet about it and there was
something about the undergroundsbut I hadn't really paid any
attention to it.
And I remember the first timegetting on the underground and
stepping off and just being justmy jaw being on the floor,
these cathedrals internally, andit was such a like you say, it
was both the beauty of it butalso the reflection on its
culture and the significance ofit and almost like the statement

(31:50):
of intent from that place.

Mr Lyan (31:52):
You get so much from it .
I learn a lot from it.

Tom Marchant (31:54):
One thing that it seems apparently to us is when
you travel, your emotions feelso much more heightened than the
day-to-day.
I think there's a number ofreasons why, but why do you
think that is?
Why is it when we travel,everything feels a bit more in
clearer colour than when we'rehere?

Mr Lyan (32:11):
It's such a lovely way of putting it.
I haven't really sounds extreme, but fight or flight, because
you're in an unknowncircumstance and you're your
body will be paying attention toeverything, because it can't
just fall into a regular patternand because we thankfully live
in a world where you know mostof the time you're traveling and

(32:32):
you're not having to be likereally like, do I need to fight
my way out of this?
Um, so you're, you're able tojust let those heightened senses
flood you with information in areally nice way and you're
right, colours look differentlyor the way that you open up to
stuff feels very different and,yeah, I think that's a really
key thing to embrace youactually do end up looking at

(32:54):
stuff in a kind of morewide-eyed manner.

Tom Marchant (32:57):
I love that thing you said about opening up, isn't
it?
It's because if you'retravelling, you're well.
I think certainly ourselves arelots of people we know.
Are you sort of you'rewelcoming new things in?
You know?
yes, there'll be some thingsthat are challenging, possibly
even overwhelming, but you justseem to kind of loosen things a
bit and it's like I'm here tokind of absorb and learn and and

(33:17):
suddenly the thing that canseem really quite insignificant
can just take on this hugeamount of significance or
interest.
And whether it's down to localcustoms being different or just
things looking different thatare in terms of you know,
architecture, or or just banalstuff that you wouldn't pay any
attention to at home, I thinkit's just when you put yourself
into the different places andyour mind's in that space, your
natural levels of curiosity justgo up absolutely yeah, and I

(33:40):
think that's also probably whyit just seems to stimulate
emotion so much more it's alsowhy you can you get a bit of
that provence effect.

Mr Lyan (33:46):
Sometimes, right like you, you had that beer that you
you had in a particular place,or that dish, and you try and
bring it back and you're like,why doesn't this taste the same?
And you know that that could besomething to be like.
Oh nuts, it doesn't taste thesame, but it's like it's
actually more the magic of whenyou're there.
That is the thing to chase like.
Things will be different whenyou're on the road and you're
trying it in situ and it'ssurrounded by all those things

(34:08):
and I think that's a.
It's a wonderful thing, ratherthan like something to frame as
a.
This tripped up because itdidn't work when I had it back
in in my home setting.

Tom Marchant (34:16):
That's it, I think it's just like realizing that
we we just probably take onslightly different personas, but
just um our outlook orapproaching, it's just slightly
different between places butthat's kind of one of the one of
the joys of it.
Yeah, I've talked with someonerecently about bringing stuff
back, yeah, and I remember therewas I've been away, it was.
It was.
It was wine from somewhere.
I brought it back and I was.
I remember I was living inhackney at the time and it was a

(34:38):
really cold, wet night in themiddle.
I don't know why I was evendrinking this particular bottle.
It was because I drank in thesummer.
I sort of opened it and Iremember saying the game was
just not the same.
Actually there's a reason whyit's not the same.
Yeah, and there is that.
You know it's.
It's that, it's that widerstuff, isn't it like sort of
those?
Um, it's not even aself-perceive, but there's just
so many different sensory umhits coming in that kind of

(34:59):
contributes that feeling.
Yeah, how's that like in yourworld in terms of like, looking
at, you know your, the peoplecoming into your bars and and
the enjoyment they're having,have consumer needs or demands
or wants from the experiencehaving?
Has that shifted over the yearsin terms of what you're seeing?
You know people coming throughand interacting with your spaces
?

Mr Lyan (35:19):
yeah, I think it has shifted and I think a big play
has been because people havebeen traveling more and they've
been traveling to differentplaces.
So they've come back.
You know, previously youmight've heard about a
particular drink and, forexample, when Mad Men came on TV
, like everybody startedordering old fashions or
Manhattans and great, it was abrilliant boom for the classic

(35:40):
whiskey cocktails.
But you also had peopletraveling to brazil and then
coming back and be like you gotcachaca and then, or they might
have tried a different cocktailin a particular place, or you
know even certain herbs gettingdemystified for people.
For example, you know, staranise.
Anise is not a very big flavorin kind of british cuisine, but

(36:01):
then all of a sudden, ifsomebody's been, you know,
spending time around themediterranean and they've been
having, you know, rakhi orsomething like that, and then
all of a sudden like gotanything that's got like a
little bit of an anise note toit and you know it's really nice
to see how they, you know, wantto be able to, to kind of carry
on some of that feeling, orit's just sparked a curiosity.
You know, know it's changed theway that they, you know, would

(36:22):
have come in.
And you know we always try andhave a bit of a dialogue.
Of course, if somebody rocks upI want a gin and tonic,
absolutely Well, you know aclassic cocktail will guide them
to that.
But it's also where they'vetried something and they want to
be able to understand it a bitmore.
And you know we can frame it ina slightly different manner,
even if it's you know, I saythis a lot with if people just

(36:43):
discovered a brand new spirit,or you know you want to be able
to know more about a category,or even if you've got your
favorite spirit that you drinkat home.
You know this is your whiskey,you drink every week.
You know your friendlyneighborhood bartender is the
person that can help go.
Well, if you've tried it in this, try it this.
You know this is going to showoff a different side of it.
Or if you've liked that whiskey, you might like this, or this

(37:06):
also tastes like this.
And you know all of thoselittle bridges, those little
notes, not just from aneducation point of view, but
from a this, this helps theirtheir own little mind map.
I think that's a really niceway, um, and it's also one of
the things I've always lovedwhen I was, you know, much more
in the bars as a bartender, kindof guiding and kind of giving
those little anecdotes orinsights for people to follow.

Tom Marchant (37:29):
And that is a lovely feeling for a person to
be in a bar, getting informedand inspired by an expert, and
is that something you encourageyour bartenders to, or is it
kind of go with it if you thinkit's right?
But is it when you're hiringpeople right?
But is it, you know, whenyou're hiring people into your
bars?

Mr Lyan (37:44):
Yeah, we absolutely do.
We obviously don't want to borethe guests Like it's not about
making it about us, but they'reabsolutely empowered to.
You know, if somebody doesn'tlike something, we'll just
change it.
Like it's much more importantto me that they have a good time
than it is about okay, we'velost that.
You know cost of that drink.
And similarly, if people wantto have a little taste of

(38:05):
something like it's it's, one ofmy favorite things is is you'll
have somebody who'll be like oh, it was.
You know, I discovered my newfavorite whiskey at, you know,
lioness, because you know Iusually drink this and they were
giving me a little taste ofsomething and I found something
I had no idea I either existedor that I would like.
And again, again, it's allabout trying to find those
little connections for peoplethat feel yeah like we've helped

(38:28):
them discover something new.

Tom Marchant (38:29):
In your local bar.
Yeah, you are on a journey ofdiscovery.

Mr Lyan (38:32):
Yeah.

Tom Marchant (38:32):
And so it's just that there's just some nice
connection to travel.
We talked about Japan.
Are there other places that youknow and you're well-traveled,
you get looked at, but are thereother destinations that kind of
stick in your mind as placesthat are a regular source of
inspirational, embodiedcuriosity that you're always
sort of looking to?
I mean, you talked about athensearlier.
Interesting things happeningthere, what are the places that

(38:53):
you kind of think about?

Mr Lyan (38:55):
uh, one of the key ones for me has been australia and I
think that's partly becausethere is some incredible produce
in that country and you knowyou've got the oldest
civilization in the world thereand you know it's not that
that's um being necessarily likebrought out, like some of their
knowledge and their, theirinsight into the, into the land,

(39:17):
is not as ingrained as itshould be in in in the, in the
everyday situation.
But you can still kind ofaccess some of these kind of
incredible ingredients andthey're so forthcoming with,
with kind of knowledge.
The first nation people havebeen, you know, shared with
friends and they'll talk aboutit and we've been able to go out
and try some different thingsand amazing like flavors that I
I'm totally baffled by ways ofprocessing things or sourcing

(39:40):
them or you know how they'velinked to the land is is
honestly it's just incredible tobe able to to understand.
But I think it's also the factthat the probably the most kind
of natural bartenders in theworld are in, I think, the
celtic nations, again, greatstorytellers.
You go across the island,you're in scotland, you've got
brilliant humor coming through.

(40:01):
But Australians are just reallygood natural storytellers.
They're very disarming, they'revery welcoming.
And so you go to any cafe, anightclub, a restaurant, a bar
and you just there's thiswonderful way of being hosted
and it's just allowed a scene todevelop in such a fascinating
way and you have such diversityof venue.

(40:22):
They're beautifully kitted out,like you know, these are
they're not, you know, and it'severything from.
You know, one of our friendsbars in a tiny little garage and
they're, you know, serving, uh,tequila and mezcal drinks and
just the most fascinating waythrough to something that's kind
of much grander.
Um, some beautiful places andactually currently, where I
think it's the world's best bar,our friends bar caretakers

(40:43):
cottage in in melbourne, whichis literally an old caretakers
cottage.
It's like it looks like thehouse from up, nestled in
amongst these skyscrapers, inlike this beautiful little
square, in in the kind of cbd ofmelbourne.
It's great music, it's greatdrinks, it's just wonderful
hosting and in a lot of waysthat just seems like a great pub

(41:04):
and that's actually what theycall it.
They call it a pub.
They're using local ingredients, they're playing local music.
They're you know the way thatthey've brought it together in,
just like whatever secret sauceis sprinkled over the top.
It's just, it's a joy to be inand you see people kind of
gathered around the square.
Obviously it helps that kind offair weather in in you know
australia to be able to beoutside and you're seeing so

(41:25):
much in that scene that feelssuper inspiring and is that
something like caretakers,caretakers, cottage, right?

Tom Marchant (41:31):
is that?
Is that something that when yousee I mean I'm sure I know
people around the world willlook at, look at your portfolio
bars and want to replicate that?
Is that somewhere that you saidthat only works, though for
these reasons, like it's notsomething that could, or is it
more that there's a like?
The philosophy behind it isstrong and, with some tweaks,

(41:51):
would work in a Reykjavik or ina Cape Town?

Mr Lyan (41:54):
or is it indisputably, because it's Australian, it's a
middle I think that particularproduct is so fitting of its
circumstance.
But I think what makes itspecial is it's somebody's
vision and you feel that whenyou walk in it's not being
cookie-cutted, it's not beingcopied from anywhere else.
It's Matt and Rob's way ofbringing their character to life

(42:15):
.
So they could do somethingsimilar in your Cape Town and it
would still be wonderful.
But that bar is definitelythere A couple of things.

Tom Marchant (42:23):
Have you ever seen or had an idea that you've
brought back and put into a barfor drinks that hasn't quite
worked, because maybe it's beenahead of its time or maybe just
the temperature wasn't right?

Mr Lyan (42:36):
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly been a couple of
failures, and you never knowwhat's going to resonate with
people, and I'm trying to thinkif there's anything that we've
kind of brought back that hasn'treally landed.
I think we have a habit ofactually, you know, not being
very precious about our thingsand we're kind of, you know, we
burn it down and move on to thenext thing, sometimes literally
with our venues, where we goright, we're done with this,

(42:57):
let's move it into somethingelse.
You know you're never going toget it 100 right where you've,
you know, created something andyou think it's.
You know, I think the sentimentwould always be the right thing
.
That's what we're.
We're looking to evoke acertain feeling, but whatever
we've done, it hasn't quitebrought it to life in the right
way, and that's, you know,sometimes it might be the
incongruence of okay, this isthe emotion it's meant to kind

(43:19):
of channel, this is how ittastes, that hasn't linked up
and it's just not resonatingwith people.
Or it might be simple thingslike sometimes we just haven't
got the language right andpeople haven't ordered it, and
we're like I know that's goingto be what would have worked for
it, but we haven't been able tokind of bring it to life and
other points we've.
It might be a piece ofprogramming, we programming and

(43:43):
might have gone oh, it'd belovely to introduce kind of a
little aperitivo moment here, orit'd be great to do something
that's a bit more informal, for,you know, a sunday easy, kind
of like, okay, I just want tokick back with a drink, kind of
thing, and you know, you don'talways line up what is the right
product for that or thelanguage again for it, or you
know, whatever it might be, it's.
It's hard sometimes to kind ofunderstand what brings those

(44:03):
things to life, but I think thekey is that that's kind of part
of the joy.
If it was obvious A it would.
I mean it just wouldn't be asfun.

Tom Marchant (44:12):
Yeah, and that's its part To be original, to push
forward and innovate.
We see the same in things We'lltry some things and you're like
I just don't know why thatdidn't really fly.
Or you know, that was great andI'm not sure why.
And then you go back and pullit apart.
But sometimes, no matter howwell you can use your gut and
your sense, check and your tests, sometimes things just don't

(44:34):
seem to go.

Mr Lyan (44:36):
But it's also been prepared to embrace that and so
that's just part of the process,rather than say if you just say
, well, we're just not going tochange that, yeah, um, that's
when you start becoming yeahyeah well forgotten about.
Yeah, you get lost with fear offailure.
Yeah, then you're never goingto create new things and I think
it's uh, it's obviously it'squite a difficult thing because
it's, it's disheartening becauseyou put your role into

(44:58):
something and, for whateverreason, it might not work.
You can get dismayed by that,but I think part of it is you
know you, you don't even need torun a full autopsy on
everything as well.
Sometimes you're just nevergoing to understand why, it
didn't work, but I think it's,it's the encouragement to go.
Yes, but something else youknow, will you know?
You get the successes alongsidethe failures, and both are
valuable yeah, couldn't agreemore.

Tom Marchant (45:20):
One thing we're asking people is you.
You know, the name of thispodcast is the Pursuit of
Feeling.
Yeah, we've talked about this alot.
What does that?

Mr Lyan (45:29):
mean to you in terms of when it comes to travel.
I think it's what ends up beingkind of rewarding or nourishing
is kind of varied.
It's never going to be like thesame in every single situation.
And if you can embrace thatfeeling, whatever way it
manifests, then that's whereyou're.
You know you're always growingand I think it's it's sometimes
where you might find that thefeeling is what you expect.

(45:52):
You know, I went here to be ableto kind of relax and be able to
spend time with my friends, butthen other times it might have
been that you you're justlooking at something slightly
differently, or you ended upkind of being lost in in kind of
whatever activity or thatmoment.
Or you know, there's somethingquite nice when you're traveling
, where there's that unexpectedand we talked about being like

(46:14):
open to things you'll end updoing something.
You're like I would never havedone that in a normal
circumstance and all of a suddenfeel very differently about
everything that you might do.
And I think that's again likewhere it starts to kind of like
snap your system a bit, whereyou you know you would have
thought this is the way that youoperate, you would do things in
a particular way and then youbuck it and then you're like, oh

(46:34):
, maybe I'm not so fearful ofthat or so weirded out by this,
and you know, maybe it's not sodifferent to what I usually do,
and I think the idea of feelingbeing, you know, that's how we
grow in the world yeah and howwe feel alive and the fact that
you can, you can look for it insuch a multitude of of places

(46:55):
and situations, that that, to meis, is kind of what it's.
The reason why I say to peopleis, like, you know, travel
doesn't need to be about alwaysgoing to the most exotic place.
You know, travel is also just akind of like a state of mind of
being able to feel open to newthings and you know, you can do
that in in kind of very humbleways, you can do it in very

(47:15):
extravagant ways, and both havevalue and both have kind of
wonder to them, I guessbeautifully put right, I think,
um, that idea about being openor recognizing that something
might be different, but growingfrom that and and then, yeah,
parallels also with what peopleare lucky enough to have in your
establishments where they'retrying new things, or things
that they've never considered,but then reacting in a really
great way.

Tom Marchant (47:35):
Yeah, and taking something from that, I think
that just needs to be a shouldbe a constant thread in
everyone's life I think yeah ifwe could.
And last question you travel alot.
What's coming up on your travelagenda?
I mean, we talked a little bitabout this stuff and what are
you hoping to get from thesetrips?

Mr Lyan (47:50):
We've got a couple of bits where we have a secret new
project that's starting.
So it's going to take us to acouple of new places and it's
going to be really exciting tobe able to kind of see some
friends, but going to be reallyexciting to be able to kind of
see some friends but also seesome places that are new to me.
You know it's always a balanceof kind of familiar and trying
to smatter in some kind ofunexpected.
So it's lovely to be able tokind of, you know, be back in DC

(48:12):
and be back in Amsterdam,because it's like a home away
from home and you know there'ssomething very different about
having businesses there becauseyou end up with a different
relationship with it and it'sit's really lovely to be able to
go.
You know, count london,amsterdam and dc is a place I
feel at home.
But also I realized, you know Imade it to south america for
the first time last year.

(48:33):
I was in columbia and again waswith some really inspiring
friends who were doing someincredible work.
But I realized it was a wholecontinent I haven't explored.
I mean, you know I've done abit of central america and a
decent amount of north america,but you know it's probably top
of my list is is to kind of makeit to peru because some there's
again some friends who are whoare doing some really wonderful

(48:54):
work out there.
And I was very fortunate whenwe're doing the residency in new
york, the the team from uhkiole sister restaurant to to
central.
You know they brought some godknows how they got them into the
new york, but maybe we'll skimover that uh, these ingredients
that you know from from theandes, from the you know
landscape of peru, that I haveno analog for.
I have no idea what to relatethem to or any of these things,

(49:19):
and I was absolutely fascinatedand you know the way that they
talked about these ingredientsand the way that they're
learning from both.
Again, the historical side, butyou know they're a fine dining.
You know central is the world'sbest restaurant.
You know they're working withthings in a a really fascinating
way.
It made me realize that well, Ireally want to get to to kind
of peru as a result of this, butthere is like a, a swathe of

(49:42):
the world.
That has been a total blindspot for me and that's so
exciting.
I just need to then carve outthe kind of time to get there.

Tom Marchant (49:49):
Find the time, find the time Well.
I mean, yeah, we, as all avidfans of Peru here, we see a lot
of people there we candefinitely echo that enthusiasm
and the inspiration it brings.
So hopefully you'll get theresoon.
But, ryan, I just want to saythank you.
That has been a hugelyinspiring and just wonderful

(50:10):
chat.
It's great to spend an hoursort of tapping into your mind
and it's not surprising to seeyour success that's come your
way and to know that theinnovation and the spirit of
curiosity exists so stronglywithin you, it's been wonderful.
So thank you so much for comingon to Purs strongly within you.
It's been wonderful.
So thank you so much for comingon to Pursuit of Feeling.
It's been delightful to haveyou on.

Mr Lyan (50:26):
Thank you.
I've completely echoed my sideas well.
It's always so nice, of course,with friends.
You know there's going to besome of that kind of parity, but
it's so lovely.
Particularly your world is.
You're right, there is so muchcrossover and it's really lovely
to be able to have these kindof discussions.
So thank you for having meBrilliant.
Thanks so much.