Episode 5 – Meet Dan Flower, the media giant who relaunched The Face

If relaunching legendary magazine The Face wasn’t enough to place his finger on the pulse on fashion, style and design, then we might mention the creative visionary  Dan Flower’s work as the Creative Director of Soho House – or his involvement with an eye-boggling array of media and digital culture stalwarts over the years. If it’s been worth looking at, listening to, or reading, then you can be pretty sure that Dan has had a hand in it.

Understandably, this work has taken Dan all around the world. In this episode, he talks Tobago, chats about his childhood in Philadelphia, deconstructs the history of Berlin’s DIY culture, and tackles travel’s complex relationship with the power of nostalgia – and a whole lot more.

Episode Transcript

Owen Vince (00:01):
You're listening to the Pursuit of Feeling, a
podcast by Black Tomato.
In this new series, we want toexplore not only the world of
travel, but the world of emotionand what it ultimately means to
feel our way through the world.
In each episode, you'll alsoget a Rolodex of recommendations
from our guests on where to go,what to do and where to stay

(00:23):
all around the world.
Where to go what to do?

Tom Marchant (00:25):
and where to stay all around the world.
This week, on the Pursuit ofFeeling, we sit down with Dan
Flower, the creative directorand producer whose work has
shaped the visual and culturallanguage of a generation.
As a former publishing leaderat EMAP, creative director at
Soho House and, more recently,the managing director behind the
relaunch of iconic the Facemagazine, dan's influence spans
some of the most era-definingnames in media, lifestyle and
culture.
He's widely regarded as anauthority on youth culture, a

(00:48):
curator of the zeitgeist withinstinctive grasp of emerging
trends in fashion, music, artand the shifting landscapes of
taste.
But behind the sharp creativeinstinct is a deep emotional
current, one shaped by earlysummers spent in Philadelphia, a
lifelong connection to food asmemory and meaning, and an
enduring belief in travel as asource of feeling, not just
movement.
In this episode, dan exploreshow cities develop their own

(01:09):
cultural pulse, how Soho Housetapped into local emotion to
expand globally, and why thepeople behind the places the
chefs, bartenders, creatives andcharacters often define our
experience more than thedestinations themselves.
He speaks about hislong-standing bond with Tobago,
a place layered with memory,rhythm and personality, and
shares some of the restaurants,bars and corners of the world
that have left a lasting mark onhim.

(01:29):
This is a conversation aboutcreative curiosity, cultural
intuition and the emotionallogic of travel how where we go
can shape not only what we see,but how we think, create and
feel Right.
I'm delighted to have a goodfriend, friend dan flower, join
us for this episode of ourpodcast, pursuit of feeling.
Dan is a creative, visionaryand inspiring connector of

(01:52):
people, renowned as being one ofthe people who really
understands how to take thetemperature of a generation.
His ability to understandcultural pulses unsurpassed, and
I'm honored to have him on ourpodcast today talking about the
pursuit of feeling, which, forus, is around the role that
travel plays in creatingemotions and how it's a great
vehicle to understand the worldand understand yourself.

(02:12):
So, on that note, dan, welcometo the podcast.
Thanks for coming along.

Dan Flower (02:16):
Thanks for having me .
Yeah, great to be here.
Good to see you.
It's been a while.
It has been a while Just lookat your evolving haircuts on
Instagram.
So it's good to actually seeyou in the flesh.

Tom Marchant (02:23):
That's actually.
You can map that.
We really could Cut that in, ordon't?
Dan, before we get into sort oftalking about some of the
broader stuff, can you just giveus a bit of detail about
yourself and your relationshipwith travel, like when it became
a meaningful thing to you?

Dan Flower (02:39):
Sure, I mean when it became meaningful.
It's probably quite hard topinpoint my Sure.
I mean when it becamemeaningful, it's probably quite
hard to pinpoint.
My gran lived in Philadelphiaand when I was a kid, I think, I
did probably about eight trips,so I'd spend the entire summer
there and then I did a fewChristmases.
What I felt when I was 13 yearsold, so you kind of what do you
know then?
But when I sort of came back,the difference culturally
between 80s Philadelphia and 80sSouth London was stark.

(03:02):
80s Philadelphia and 80s SouthLondon was stuck and seeing how
different people behave, whatthey were into, how they dressed
, what they listened to.
You know this was the era whenmovies came out six months later
in the UK, do?
you know what I mean, and youknow, my gran had a VCR player
that nobody in England had.
You know, my gran had ice inthe freezer.
I mean, anybody had ice untillike the 90s, you know yeah.
So I just was really fascinatedby the difference at that point

(03:25):
.
So I suppose, if I was tryingto pinpoint it, my kind of
desire and kind of feeling ofwanting to see how different
people rolled, moved, whateverwas from really early age, so it
kind of spiked that naturalcuriosity you've got, but almost
trips like that just amplifiedit.

Tom Marchant (03:41):
Right, you started seeing that there was other
things out there, differenttastes on things.

Dan Flower (03:45):
Yeah, completely.
And you know, I suppose youknow the family.
We didn't come from a wealthybackground so lots of my friends
sort of you know, would goskiing or south of France.
We didn't do any of that, noneof that.
And Philadelphia was really akind of cheap way for my mum to
kind of got there, and then youstarted to see the codes of how

(04:06):
people behaved it.

Tom Marchant (04:08):
Yeah, it became really exciting and it's
interesting that, like say, therole of travel covers all sorts
of environments but the roles oflike cities in that, because
you know you've always beensomeone who can take a read on
how people are thinking ortrends and I guess going to a
big, different city in adifferent part of the world at
that age probably also, I'mguessing kind of showed to you
like the power of cities andkind of their ability to

(04:29):
influence youth and all thatkind of stuff 100% and you know
again, I don't I don't supposeit kind of cognitively dropped
at the time but you know, as youreflect on it, I think I'm so
grateful for that because it wasinvaluable and I suppose also
particularly Philadelphia.

Dan Flower (04:43):
It isn't a holiday destination really, you know,
because of the fact that we wereBrits and when I say Brits I
went each year with a differentfriend I was taking a buddy with
me I also think it's like, youknow, the ego isn't the
attention you get yeah you'relike this exotic thing, yeah.
So everybody wanted to talk toyou, everybody wanted to.
But it also made me realize astime went by, the flip of that
was that not many of the friendsI made in Philly even left the

(05:05):
state, let alone the country.
So you kind of see these peoplea month ago that I knew 40
years ago, and the mindset andtheir kind of cultural view on
life.
And I don't want to sound likea ponce, because I think you
know there's money involved andpeople can't afford to travel
and I get the rest of it.
But I just think that if you'renot doing this kind of thing, if
you're not opening yourself upto how other people live, then

(05:28):
you're just living such a smalllife.

Tom Marchant (05:30):
And has Philly itself as a city changed much?

Dan Flower (05:34):
Yes, yeah, I'd say so hugely.
I mean, I don't know how heavywe want to go on something like
this, but in the 80s there'ssomething that really even even
the 14 year old really satuncomfortably with me was the
segregation in neighborhoods.
Right, so the neighborhoodswere irish, polish, italian and
black.
And when you say black, itwasn't like you know west

(05:56):
african, east african, west, youknow jamaica, whatever it was.
Just that was the blackneighborhood and I was told to
not go through that neighborhood.
I was told, if you walk thatway, go to this store, walk this
different way.
And we never listened toanybody because we had this sort
of pass.
We weren't from Philly, yeah,we were white boys, but we
weren't from Philly.
So we made friends with all thecultures.
But the point of to yourquestion is, back then it was

(06:19):
really block divided.
In fact there was.
I have a photo, an old sort ofphoto, of a house in in
southwest where my grandmotherlived, that a family of color
were living and they had a24-hour police guard.
They had a 24-hour police guardoutside their house because of
risk of attack, because it wasso toxic.
I went back at christmas andthe same friends that were never

(06:43):
particularly like that, but youknow you're, you're in your and
you're brought up in a certainway.
It's very hard to go againstthe grain of what everyone
around you is doing.
Time helps these things, and sothese friends are still my dear
friends and we might have theodd political difference and
whatever, but these are goodhumans and they looked after me
and my daughter beautifully.
But I just one evening,christmas Eve, they had a party
at their house and it was.

(07:03):
I was like wow, there was loadsof people of colour, there were
gay people, there were like athing that in the 80s I probably
wouldn't have seen.
So I do think there's definitelybeen some growth in that sense
and again, I don't stand onbeing fucking condescending, I
don't mean that at all but yeah,I do think it's definitely
changed Just observing shifts.

Tom Marchant (07:21):
Yeah, I mean your career.
You stewarded just some iconicbrands, whether it was in your
publishing days at EMAP, whenyou were the creative director
of Soho House and oversaw somuch of the transformation
that's turned it into the iconthat it is, and recently, in
recent years, relaunching andstewarding the brilliance of the
face that has just becomesynonymous with engaging with
younger generations, capturingthe global zeitgeist, if you

(07:43):
like, for all these differentplaces.
Does travel, or kind of gettingout into the world, shape
cultural narratives that arebeing talked about in these
places, and does that influenceyour work, your own work or kind
of even from the brand you'restewarding?
Are you looking out beyond sortof where you may be and seeing
how inspiration or influence cancome from travel 100%?

Dan Flower (08:05):
And look, there's obviously lots of.
I don't need to tell you you'rethe travel governor, but you
know there are obviously varioustypes of travel.
There's business travel,there's weekend breaks, there's,
you know, sabbaticals.
There's immersing in historythere's.
I just want to get a tan.
So yeah, there's lots of kindsof travel and I suppose a and
the career that I've had, youknow the EMAP part of my career.

(08:28):
I worked across a number ofmagazines and a few of them
launched internationally.
So I launched Arena inSingapore, thailand, malaysia,
denmark and in the preparation….
Strange kind of Well.
I think, to be honest with you,emap at the time were just like
that's a part of the worldthat's making money over.
You know we've got this realpassion for you know soul.

(08:50):
But my job was to go to theseplaces and meet the potential
collaborative partners,publishing partners, and you
know you need to find yourpeople.
Yeah, and you find your people.
You do.
And it's the same with SohoHouse.
You know I launched Soho Housein Toronto, west Hollywood,
miami, berlin, as well, berlin,yeah.
And again similarly, but alsovery different.

(09:12):
You had to go and find whereare your people, and when you
say your people, it's like right, okay, you probably want to
tick off four or five basicthings.
Are you curious, are youinquisitive?
Are you curious, are youinquisitive?

Owen Vince (09:23):
Are you kind of?

Dan Flower (09:23):
inclusive, you know, whatever and creatively, what
are the things that excite you?
And so Soho House, as anexample, we would spend probably
two years assembling themembership committee before we
launched and that would be themost important part of Nick's
plan.
Yeah, was that.
And, by the way, nick Jones,best boss I've ever worked for,
adore the man, taught meeverything, love him but his

(09:44):
kind of militancy on if those 10are right, everything else will
fall into place.
If you have a bad apple, itcould fuck the club.
So those trips, that period Iwasn't in the membership
department but you'd be kind ofpart of that stuff.
You would be finding othercreatives that did a similar
thing to your core audience backin the UK and maybe already had
relationships.
And then you get to the faceand and I guess it's even more

(10:05):
important because you know, likeI was thinking about this in
the way you know, when you walk,drive through kent or west
sussex, they have those sort ofweird signs when you go into
villages that sort of saystwinned with ufenheimer, in
wherever, yeah, um, and you'relike I always wonder why they're
twin and what's the historybehind that.
But they do these things well.
And I say gangs, I mean gangs.
You know there are many waysyou can call this communities,
groups, friends, you knowwhatever you want to call it,

(10:27):
but you want these cool gangs tocollaborate and be inspired by
each other and work with eachother.
So, on the face, right now, weknow that there's crews in
London that are twinned withcrews in New York.
We know there are crews inSweden that are twinned with
crews in Paris.

Tom Marchant (10:41):
We know how does that happen?

Dan Flower (10:43):
It happens out of a passion of the cultural vertical
they might be into.
So let's just say everybody'sinto grime through social and
platforms and and variousconcerts and gigs and parties
around the world that people arereally passionate about.
We'll go, they'll meet theirfriends and then suddenly you'll
see them kind of collaboratingwith each other and you know,
you kind of got like the PataBoys in Holland are really tight

(11:03):
with the Supreme in London andthe skaters of Palace are
working really well with theChain Gang in Sweden, and so
these cultural exchanges arewhat kind of keeps these
communities together andactually gives us a really
interesting kind of subject tocover.

Tom Marchant (11:19):
But in terms of just on the one thing about like
say, we're talking about SohoHouse and setting up in other
places, did you ever see,whether it's Soho House or just
other brands?
You see like people tweakingthe brand or kind of the
offering in order to fit bestfor what would work there,
rather than kind of like a onesize fits all.
We go out global, we need, youknow it might not quite mesh as

(11:41):
much as those or might alienate,or am I overthinking that?

Dan Flower (11:45):
No, there are versions of it, right, because
there are people that will morphwhat they're doing to convince
the people they want to comethat they're the thing they're
trying to morph into.
I'll give you an example Goingto Berlin way before I launched
Solar House there and not longafter the wall came down and
you'd hang in Berlin and you'dgo to these clubs or bars and
you'd go in and there'd bereally, really gearish floral

(12:07):
curtains that didn't fit awindow.
There'd be that sort of ricketychair that the pub had borrowed
off their nan, there'd be thatcouch they got off their auntie,
there'd be that and this wholelook.
You know, that sort of reallyDIY look that Berlin had.
You went there and you went.
This is authentic becausebecause they've got no choice,
they've got no fucking dough andthey're going to create this
and it's their energy and theirdesire to want to be open
because of the restrictionsbefore.

(12:28):
But then, shoreditch, early 90s, because I'm old and I remember
you had these bars opening thatwere rich kids that were paying
for it to look like a Berlinbar.
That's not authentic, right,and I didn't feel that vibe,
whereas when nick would beopening soho houses and again I
don't know what it's like.
I've not been there for 10years.
I'm sure the formula is verysimilar, but you know, miami

(12:50):
would be a standout one for me,because the whole spirit of the
miami club was, was very, um,the the very end of america, you
know miami, but also, um, southamerica and all of those
influences.
And so he spent a lot of time inCuba and places like this, and
he was asking all these kind oflittle details that I don't
think other people would thinkto ask and which is why,

(13:11):
certainly the year I was thereand I can't speak for now
because I'm not there justbelieved in everything he did.
And the example would be hespent some time with some
families all right, they'refriends of friends, but they
were families and he said whatgarden furniture do you guys use
?
You know, when you're sittingout in the sun and having a
barbecue?
What garden furniture?
And they went we don't, we justdrag the couch from the house
outside.
So he put couches on histerraces that were like indoor

(13:32):
couches, and I think that thateffort to the nuance isn't
contrived.
You know he's trying to deliverfrom the off something that he
feels is spiritually right.
Now there are tones of SohoHouse.
That will be the same globally.
That's why it's got a great youknow, like groucho, across the
road from us right now.
I think it did a week in Ibizato help some children once, but

(13:53):
other than that, this out likefucking starbucks.

Tom Marchant (13:56):
It's amazing, I mean like yes, yes, for the kind
of the global influence, thatdetail about recognizing the
power of local culture, not justto kind of connect with the
culture but also to kind of makeyour business a success, right.
And that also stirs emotion,right, you know, within people,
like saying, right, you know,you've got that right.
Or say, if you're travelingsomewhere and you're feeling
like you're really connectingwith the place, because it
reflects not just say how youthink a place should be, because

(14:18):
that's probably the way to comeat it, but as you learn why
it's done a certain way, becauserespect to that, you're getting
that desire to connect locally,right.
And so, as you know, back tomarceau, when we we started, and
still to this day we've alwaysbeen about.
It's not necessarily you knowwhere you want to go, but quite
often you know how you want tofeel, right, even if you're not
articulating that way, like whenyou're looking at places,
there's something in the back ofyour mind going well, that's
gonna, maybe I'm gonna get thisfeeling there like do you ever,

(14:40):
you know, recall times whereyou've been looking to travel
and perhaps you haven'tnecessarily known where you're
looking to go, but you've beenin pursuit of a certain feeling.
It might be like escape, or itmight be like to party whatever.
Like does that drive you yeah?

Dan Flower (14:52):
it does, and you know what I I was like some of
my friends that just cultured tothe nines, and you know their
interest of going to wherever itis is because there's that
specific bit of history andthey're really oh god, I'd love
to be able to say that, but Ithink for me it is really quite
sort of basic it's.
I want to see family and I'mlucky I've got family around the

(15:12):
world, you know, in the states,australia, tobago.
I want to chill, you know.
So, for example, you know I'vehad a very busy december and a
lot of change at the beginningof january.
So next week I'm going to go tokotel for three weeks and I'm
very clear on what I wanted, whyI'm going there.
You know I've been there.
I went there 20 years ago.
I think it's really beautiful,it's chilled.
Yeah, there's probably too manyyoungsters there, but I'll have
to avoid them.

(15:33):
Um, but I know that what I wantfrom that is to recharge the
batteries.
You know, recharge thebatteries.
I suppose we're talking aboutfeelings here and I'm not sure
if this is a feeling, but I lovefood.

Owen Vince (15:45):
I'm a trained chef.

Dan Flower (15:45):
I think you may remember that from when we were
hanging around before, and I'mreally obsessed with food and
I'm really obsessed withparticularly Spanish food and
Spanish food culture and theinnovation that the young chefs
have got.
I think they're the best in theworld.
And San Sebastian, which I knowis really obvious, donastia I
was there three weeks ago.
I hadn't been for about five orsix years and it's funny

(16:06):
because I saw Oshin, you knowthe guy that owns the Devonshire
.

Tom Marchant (16:08):
I just talked about this earlier actually.

Dan Flower (16:09):
Yeah, and he did a piece on San Sebastian and he
said, I mean, all right, hisParis, and then he flew there.
But you know, he was like look,I know it's obvious, I know
it's almost cliche, but everytime you go there's something
interesting, something new andthere's such an energy and a
passion and they charge youreasonable money.
So there are times when I'mlike the feeling I want to go
and feel inspired and foodprobably inspires me as much as

(16:30):
maybe art does for other people.

Tom Marchant (16:32):
You know I love art, love music, of course, but
but I think, I think likethere's so many cliches I can't
actually remember, but like foodis like this window into a soul
of a place, isn't?

Owen Vince (16:39):
it.

Tom Marchant (16:40):
I'm similar to you , like you know, from looking at
places and thinking about foodand whether it's new, because
you've got that curiosity, butalso you learn more about places
and people through stuff thatgets put onto your plate.
Because sometimes if you say tosomeone, why do you travel?
And they go I like food, yousay, but why is that?
Just because it tastes nice.
Because actually when you'regoing for it, it's like if
you're in South Africa and yougo out into the winelands and

(17:00):
you're in some of thesevineyards, you drink these wines
.
It always tastes better whenyou're in location.
You bring it back and you're ona rainy night in London, you're
like it doesn't taste quite thesame does it, but when?
you're there and you're talkingto those people.
It's like induling thiscuriosity you've got which

(17:23):
combines with like somethingthat's ultimately really
enjoyable.
So for me it's like doublebubble, like you're enjoying
something for its own element,but then the enjoyment is almost
like heightened because yourealize that you're just
learning yeah, learning, or justconnecting to a place there's a
, there's a word I've forgottenum that when people go to
florence, they cry at thearchitecture.

Dan Flower (17:34):
You know what's that called?
There's a one of the cleverboys in the room, all right.
Well, anyway, there's a thingthat when you look at, you, look
at the architectural art inflorence, it kind of, you know,
brings out we.
I genuinely have felt that attimes around certain meals in
certain places.
Yeah, you know I've gone tothese places.
You know whether it's been.
You know I stayed at lecordelais in bordeaux and I've
got a beautiful restaurant inthere and it was like

(17:55):
mind-blowing.
I went to this restaurant inhobart in tasmania that was
called franklin's, which is mylocal, so I thought I'd give it
a go and the things and theinnovation we do, and it's like
you know I'm not sobbing overthis, but you kind of do get
really emotional about it and itand that that's something I'd
really enjoy it's just, it'slike leading instance.

Tom Marchant (18:08):
I remember the place I think denya, like I used
to go on holidays down thereand in the back streets of denya
, all these like tiny littlestreets full of tapas bars, and
there's this one like real, likewhole normal spot called
Hamonel de Ramonet, and it'sreally basic, but the food is
incredible and literally beforeI get on the plane I'm thinking
about that place and it'sbecause the food's amazing, but
the characters you'd see at thebar, you know the recognition

(18:37):
you get when you go back in andI think that for me like trumps
any sense of nostalgia why youtravel or why people do travel.

Dan Flower (18:43):
A hundred percent.
I mean the San Sebastianexamples.
You know, the first time, againyou go through the cliche.
You do a star restaurant.
You know Arzak, whatever, youdo one of those and then you're
like, yeah, I'm never doing thatagain because that's weird.
Same in Lisbon.
You know Lisbon's got thewhat's the pork sandwich that
they cook in port Bifana.
Yeah, there's a hole in thewall in Lisbon, that's the

(19:05):
Bifana spot.
And again you go and it's justsuch a buzz, even though it's
like six people are in there andI don't even know what you're
putting.
I found it, I knew about it, I'dthought about this for six
months and now I'm eating itSame as in Vietnam I was in I
just can't remember the middlebit and Vice Food, which I don't
even know if it's still goingdid this thing called the Banh

(19:26):
Mi Queen, and she apparentlydoes the best banh mis in the
world Spent a year thinkingabout that banh mi and then all
of a sudden I'm there.

Tom Marchant (19:40):
My hotel's 20 feet , I think they're two a day.
I've heard you talk about inthe past and actually even
earlier in this conversation,about kind of nostalgia and I
know that places like Tobagoyou've mentioned Mount Irvine.
Sometimes the world, not justin travel but day to day, it's
all about newness, like what'snext, what's next?
And I think actually beforeCOVID it felt like so much of
the travel we did was aboutpeople just trying to get to the
next thing, tick it off.
You know I've never liked thekind of idea of going somewhere

(20:00):
just for the shot and going back, but during COVID a lot of
people started hankering forthese previous times or memories
that were far more pleasantthan what they're experiencing.
Is that something you seek out?
Or, if not seek out, do yourecognise that as a motivation
to travel or what role does thatplay in your travel?

Dan Flower (20:15):
It's an interesting point, isn't it?
Because I think perhaps withthe younger generation there's a
culture of box ticking.
You know you want to say you'vedone something, because it's
cool to say that you've beenthere and you've seen it, and
that's okay because you know ifit means you get to go to places
and experience things.
But the problem with nostalgiais it's a risk because if you go
back and it's not what actuallydisappoint.

(20:36):
So it's about your ownmanagement of nostalgia and how
you kind of want to filter thatnostalgia.
Because going to philadelphia atchristmas it was nothing like
the 80s, yeah, but I made surethat the bits that were
important to me we seeked out,you know, and that was to see
certain people.
Yeah, look at some old sort oficonic spots.
I used to go to eat in someplaces that I knew were great,

(20:57):
so I got my kind of fix ofnostalgia there.
But nostalgia can be.
It's like you know, new Year'sEve is always better in the mind
before you actually do it.
Holidays, when you reflect onthem, are probably better than
at the time.
You know there are times whenyou're on a holiday and
particularly if you're in afamily like actually, four of
these days I've just had sickchildren that.
And you look back and you go,but it was beautiful, it was
amazing.

(21:17):
So you know I think it'sinteresting.
What you do with nostalgia andTobago is.
I'm glad you picked that onebecause that is really important
to me from a nostalgia point ofview because you know I've got
some really beautiful memoriesearly, early, like I was in my
early 20s and we had so much fun.
But we had a friend again.
She's passed now.
God rest her soul.
But this woman, annie, who wassouth london, like us, lived in

(21:38):
peckham and she had this perfectlife.
She was winter, so sort of youknow, september to march she
would be in tobago and thenmarch to september she'd be back
in london.
So when we went in 1994 I thinkwas the first time we went we
met her but she introduced us tothe island.
Like, her husband is a guycalled banks rasta.
He's the he's called thelobster man.
His office is a hot on onpigeon point and he supplies the

(22:01):
lobsters for the all therestaurants there and he was our
friend from 1994.
He's Godfather to my daughter.
My cat is called Banks uh,named after him, and you know,
every time we'd go back there'dbe an element of, there'd be a
bit of smugness.
So when you came out theairport you'd see all these sort
of people from various parts ofEngland sweating profusely,
trying to work out where else toget a cab.

Owen Vince (22:22):
And like we'd, just be smoothing out going.

Dan Flower (22:24):
Dave, sweet, you know, and I think with Tobago as
well, and maybe the touristboard wouldn't appreciate me
saying this but, unlike all theother Caribbean countries, as
far as I, something new,something new, something new To
me, it almost feels like it goesbackwards.
You know what I mean.
They kind of just are so realthat you kind of go to places
like Bookoo Reef where they'vegot one of the most you know,

(22:46):
and again I've got to stopthinking in this kind of
capitalist London way.
I'm like that's where a fuckinggreat restaurant would be.
And if I had a restaurant andopen, still like I don't know,
and also what's wrong with aswas it's like.

Tom Marchant (22:58):
I think that's sort of nostalgia.
It's almost like careful, whatyou wish for, because you
sometimes those points in time,those moments somewhere, is so
perfectly encapsulated, maybewhen you're there, when you look
back and then when you rushback and it's not quite the same
, like you say you can, kind ofplaces you know where, maybe
it's like a.
There was a bar on a hillsidein southern spain, in these

(23:20):
mountains, and we discovered itone night and still to this day
it stands like one of the bestplace I've found, like it's
crumbling walls, like redlighting doors being played
concerts, just this perfectthing in time.
And it kept being talked aboutafterwards and it was talked and
talked and it was all gearingup for the next year and we went
back and it was just.
It just wasn't the bar, youknow, and for these various
things it wasn't you maybe likethe dj changed, maybe like the

(23:42):
crowd was different, and I thinkI've still been back, it's
still been good, but I think,for at that time for me it was
more like because I justdiscovered it and I found like I
stumbled across it and made itfeel more special.
There are places that I likeI'll go back to.
You know my mum's from finland.
I grew up, you know, spendingsummers in turku.
You know out on the lakes, themonkeys, and it's still
brilliant.
But I think nostalgia is alsointeresting, like the feeling of
going somewhere that kind ofprobably give you like the

(24:03):
similar feelings you had, but itcould be somewhere else.
So kind of what are the kind ofcomponents of what made that
place special?
Maybe it's location ortemperature or the breeze or the
music, and you can still findthe place that might connect to
those kind of feelings but giveyou a new place to have them.
I don't know, but I get it is apower I do think also today,
like where everyone,everything's about the new or

(24:23):
everyone's chasing everythingand we're constantly on,
constantly connected, being ableto kind of go back to somewhere
where it feels almost like abit of a, not a safe haven, but
just as doing a familiarity.

Dan Flower (24:32):
I still think that is a this pursuit of familiarity
, or I think, is interesting.
Yeah, I think, I think you'reright.
I suppose it's interesting aswell.
You talked about the sort ofcrumbling walls, red lit, you
know, holding the war in spain,and you go back five years later
and it's not the same.
It's tricky, isn't it, becausethere are very few businesses or
people that don't want toprogress right, make a bit more
money, you know, have a betterlife for their kids or whatever,

(24:54):
and yet there's us that comeinto, like this place.
So how?
Like this place, sour House,you know, I remember the entire
time I was there I had all theold members going, oh, make it
like it used to be.
Yeah, keep it like it was.
And you're like, look, I get itand I want to give you that
feeling to come here, but wecan't just sit still.
You know Nick and Richardhaven't bought this to just dust
down the pitches.
You're kind of go to theseplaces and you feel a bit

(25:16):
disappointed.
But then you're like, yeah, butthey've got to grow themselves.
And it's like I'm in fashion toa degree now and it's like, you
know, like an Adidas or a Nike,you know they can sit in a Mike
Ashley shop, but they can alsobe in Dover Street Market.
So it's trying to find that wayof, which is like how do you
get your hotel, your guest house?

Tom Marchant (25:40):
your business to be able to great at it, but
while still keeping twodifferent people.
It's a very difficult job.
It's interesting and likeparallel in travel.
It's slightly different areas.
You see it in people travellingto remote parts of the world,
say, where you're going to seeit could be tribes or people
living in like remotecommunities and we don't do this
.
I don't like this travel whereit's what I call stop and stare
travel.
People go and go.
Oh, look at this, you know thisplace in time and they're
living in a very different wayand isn't that great and I've
seen that and it's fascinating.
So there's a degree of thecuriosity being indulged and it

(26:02):
works if that's how people arekind of living and they want to
be living that way.
But I remember once being inEthiopia years ago and we were
up in the Simeon Mountains andthere were these villagers that
you were travelling around andthere's someone on this group
was going, oh, it's great, Ihope it never changes.
And I was like, well, why so?
You can see that.
But I was chatting at the timeto the guide who's like they've

(26:23):
been really campaigning to kindof get electricity bought in
because that would allow kids tobe able to learn more, get
access to things, progress.
And I don't like that kind oftravel where people are like you
stay like that, or you get someplaces in other parts of the
world where people turn up andsay we'll get a photo with the
locals and they come out intraditional dress but around the

(26:43):
corner are their Nikes andother stuff and it's like I just
think that stuff does exist ina good way, that's authentic,
where those communities livethat way and love it.
But I think there's this Idon't like this sort of
expectation of you stay as youare so we can enjoy that and
tell everyone that we've seenthis or not progress.

Dan Flower (27:00):
And I think you make a good point, but you do see it
though, to be fair and againI'm sorry I'm wrapping it around
food, but I do Italy a lot forwork, a lot.
I'm probably in Milan six,seven times a year and Florence,
and in Florence there's arestaurant called Pauli's and
one called Gaga, and the waiter20 years ago, who was 50 at the
time, is still there.
You know he's 70 now and theyhave stayed the same and that

(27:23):
menu is the same.
But they've obviously workedout a business model that they
can do that.
And that you really get that,because you're in there and
you're like, wow, it's still youman.

Tom Marchant (27:31):
And that is that familiarity, yeah.

Dan Flower (27:33):
So I guess it, place it can and doesn't work.

Tom Marchant (27:35):
There used to be a barman in the ear in New York
called Mickey he was the highestguy who was kind of, was just.
You know, when I first movedthere it was like a constant
sort of lighthouse of my life.
You know, Mickey would knowit's like cheers, it's Boston,
but straight out of that.

Dan Flower (27:48):
And I loved it and it worked Beautiful.

Tom Marchant (27:54):
One thing people talk about a lot is how travel
seems to kind of amplify youremotions more.
Like when you travel you feelthings more.
Everything seems a bit morekind of clearer cut.
You know, when you reflect backyou know that was amazing, or
maybe you're trying food, and itoften seems to be quite counter
to the kind of the day to daylife we have, Like it's not like
, you know, every time I'meating something, I know it's
because I'm just living my life,but I think when I travel I

(28:15):
tend to focus on everything andI'm more interested in that.
And why do you think that is?
Why does travel seem toheighten emotions, as opposed to
kind of how we feel things dayto day?

Dan Flower (28:22):
You're doing something that isn't you and
what you do every day.
So you're almost, like you know, having a.
It's not like you're on a TVshow, it's probably a bit silly
and dramatic, but it's like.
You know, me in Philadelphia isa version of me in London, but
it's not the same me, and beingable to do you a version of you
that suits where you are, Ithink is quite exciting.

(28:43):
And then, maybe because you'redoing that, the moments and
senses are heightened and a bitmore acute.
You know, and I'm notsuggesting that you fake your
way around the world, but youknow, if I'm in Philadelphia I
will adjust how.

Owen Vince (28:55):
I am.

Dan Flower (28:55):
Equally, if I'm sat with a bunch of rastas in Tobago
, I I will adjust how I am.
Equally, if I'm sat with abunch of rastas in Tobago, I'm
going to adjust how I am a tinybit.
So I suppose when you'retravelling and you get somewhere
, particularly if you've gotrespect for where you are,
you're mindful of how they rolland what they do and it becomes
exciting because you want tojust be a bit like that for the
respect of where you are,knowing that I'm a Londoner.

Tom Marchant (29:15):
Yeah, and I think it's also like this when you
travel somewhere and maybebecause you're travelling,
you're more focused on that butif you have this inherent
curiosity, you're looking ateverything a bit more intensely
or a bit more closely, and soyou're reacting to things that
might be a bit different, oryou're just seeing things
through a different lens becauseit's different to what you know
.
So for me, I think I'll takeway more interest in something

(29:36):
that seems quite mundane,whether it's oh, they do that
differently here and then Irealise that's what's driving me
is my curiosity to kind ofunderstand that, whereas at home
I'm just used to that that'sthe day-to-day and I'm probably
not going, it's fascinating howthey put that magazine on that
shelf in that newsagent.

(30:02):
I used to, and that is just oneof the beautiful things about.

Dan Flower (30:04):
Travel is just like presenting you with differences
right, yeah, and also makingfriends so many people.
Again, sorry to keep goingabout Philly, but I met a guy in
the 80s called.
He's about 54 and we are, 40years later, really good friends
.
He's a musician.
I've booked him to DJ in Miami,in New York, for me, you know,
in the last 10 years we'vecollaborated.

(30:24):
The Face has written about hismusic university.
This was through travel.
We became friends and I don'tthink he's got many mates from
London that he's known for 40years and it's just.
It's become a lifelongfriendship and collaboration.
I love that.

Tom Marchant (30:38):
And what you were talking about earlier about the
different gangs getting to knowdifferent areas.
I think it's quite interestingabout people because I think for
us, travel's always been aboutthe human connection and if you
go back way back when peopletravelled originally, if it
wasn't people trying to buildempires, there was just a
fascination about other cultures.
You travel to learn and connectand I think sometimes I don't
despair but and connect, and Ithink sometimes I don't despair,

(31:03):
but sometimes you worry thatthis day and age, sometimes when
people are more obsessed withjust you know, capturing, taking
a shot, or I can learneverything that I'm looking at
through my screen and it almostlike discourages you from
walking into that wine bar inthe memory in Paris and just
asking the bartender where,where he goes as a drink after I
just I'm not saying thathappens and that we're losing
that, but I think think it'salways good to remind people.
Like you said to your point,the people you meet often are
the most memorable moments andyou learn most from and inspire

(31:25):
you onto new things.
I think this is more just likea rallying cry.

Dan Flower (31:30):
Well, no, and I agree, and I do, I mean listen,
I certainly wouldn't lose hope,you know.
I mean I think about mydaughter.
She's 20.
She's just did a gap year.
She was so excited andconfident and it changed her.
She left london on her own,flew to southeast asia, did six
months on her own, made loads ofnew friends, people that still
be friends, friends that she metthat turned out they're going
to the same uni as her.

(31:50):
You know there was a hugedesire to see and meet new
people and you know her bug nowis fully there.
You know she's just come backfrom egypt last night.
She was in philly with me twoweeks ago.
In fact she's a spoiled littlecow yeah, yeah, top dad points
down.

Tom Marchant (32:06):
Yeah, exactly, do you think on that?
Like, obviously you know yourwork with the face is resonance
with the younger, newgenerations.
What are they seeking throughtravel?
What's driving them?
I?

Dan Flower (32:17):
don't I mean, oh crikey, that's a good question,
man.
I don't.
I mean, what are they seekingthrough travel?
What's driving them?
I don't I mean, oh crikey,that's a good question, man.
I don't.
I mean, what are they seeking?
I think it's again looking atfor your, your people, your gang
, your community.
You know, like the Marseillepoint I'm not getting it
personally, but I know that allof the hip, fuck's sake, they're
there.

(32:37):
You know my ex is there everytwice a year.
You know you'll bump into allthe kind of key sort of young
creatives and filmmakers, butthe same crews from Berlin and
Paris are also there.
So it's like Ibiza when Ibizahad I mean, ibiza's obviously
never going to go away, but it'sobviously a lot different now
than it was in 88, 89 but youfound that everybody went there

(32:58):
because they understood thefeeling that that island gave
you and what it represented, andso when you were there you
wouldn't just be with otherBrits, I mean, you would be with
a lot of other Brits fromLondon, but again, you'd find
these cool kids from Commonalityis the attitude.
Commonality is the attitudeabsolutely, and I don't think
that that's gone away.
I do think, because ofInstagram and the world that
we're in, there is a lot of boxticking, but also, I think if

(33:22):
you were just box ticking, it'squite an expensive pursuit to
try and go around the world andtick a box, you know.
I think everyone at some pointwill pause and go.
You know what actually?
I want to go somewhere.
That's going to be a bit moremeaningful than I can say.
I saw that weird old buildingin Cambodia because it was good
to say I did.

Tom Marchant (33:36):
And then maybe, when you're taking that picture,
just miss a moment you could bein.
There's this book.
Fred Bryant, a psychologist,wrote this book about savouring
and his summary was we spend somuch of our life looking ahead,
looking back, overanalyzing orgrabbing the picture or jostling
to get the picture that we'renot actually going.

(33:58):
Do you know what?
I'm somewhere amazing and thisis so different.
I need to kind of really enjoythis, you know, and not kind of
be there but catastrophize about.
Right, if I don't get this,this is all going to go wrong,
like.
I mean, there's loads in thebook, but the one thing one
thing he says that's that alwaysstruck a chord is like the way
we're raised or brought up.
Is that so?
He's often like taught how todo things so something doesn't
go wrong or or bad will happen.

(34:20):
And he said no one ever takesyou aside as a kid and goes
here's an ice cream.
Really enjoy that like practice.
Just think about how good thatis.
And I think sometimes that'swhat we try to encourage.
I think sometimes people getinto travel and be like and then
get back home and go.
You know, maybe I just didn'treally.

(34:40):
I mean, I did enjoy it.
I'm telling myself I enjoyed it, but I could have enjoyed it
more if I'd, do you not think?

Dan Flower (34:45):
that comes with age.
Maybe Do you know I mean.

Owen Vince (34:47):
I don't want to again.

Dan Flower (34:53):
I don't want to be ageist.
I think as we get older, we dothat because I am healing days
and whatever.
And my word and it was like Idon't know, 2014, 15 maybe was
gratitude, and I know that's abit of an overused word now, but
being able to pause and begrateful where you are and
really kind of savour.
It is something that I'veworked on and, as time's gone by
, I feel I do that a lot more.
And we had this conversation,just like your book you were

(35:15):
referring to when I was talkingabout summer last year, my
daughter, she did all these kindof trips and there were bits
where you were like you know, itdoesn't really feel like you've
appreciated that.
And someone said to me Dan,when you were 17, did you sit
there when you were like going,I am so lucky to be here.
This is something incredible,my God.
I mean you don't know, do you?

Tom Marchant (35:33):
You know what I mean.
Maybe that's our responsibilityas older people to pass on.

Dan Flower (35:39):
I think so and I think you know.
But again, I just think, themore that the ones that do enjoy
travel and seeking out thosenew communities, I think they do
savour it and think about itand hold on to it and want to
stay in touch with it, whetherthat be the people or the place
or the.
You know, some are still in thegroup chat for the hostel she
was in six months ago, you know,and loving it, you know, still
just talking to them, the newkids that are arriving, giving

(35:59):
them advice, you know, whatever.

Tom Marchant (36:00):
So yeah, and that is great.
Actually.
That's why you know althoughyou can sometimes you know howl
at the moon about how you know,technology is kind of ripping
out a connection even havingthings like that, like you know,
because people I met travellingyears ago on, you know, during
after uni, it to load up andthen two weeks later you go back
on to see if you've got it andalthough there's something kind

(36:22):
of good in being disconnected,there's probably friendships
I've made over that time thatwould have lasted the test of
time I've been able to be intouch with.

Dan Flower (36:28):
Yeah.

Tom Marchant (36:28):
Or maybe they just didn't reply to my emails.

Dan Flower (36:29):
My Philly friends.
I used to write letters to them.
Yeah, Remember that.

Owen Vince (36:32):
Remember letters.

Tom Marchant (36:40):
Have there been times when you've travelled
where you can remember having aparticular kind of bittersweet
or scared, Because that's thething about motion travel.
Sometimes it's like I'm notsaying everyone should travel to
be scared, but there's thisidea about putting yourself
somewhere where you're feeling abit overwhelmed, but that's not
a bad thing.
Or have there been times wheremaybe you've gone somewhere and
didn't meet expectations andit's been slightly melancholic.

Dan Flower (37:01):
I don't know, I don't really know, to be fair.
I mean, I guess unexpected orfeeling in a moment of sort of
shock was.
this might not be that exciting,but I went to Moscow with Jamie
Caring and a bunch of others,richard's, boy my pal Jamie
about five, six years ago and wewent about four hours out of
Moscow to go to this war museum,which was fascinating and also

(37:23):
quite terrifying.
You know these helicopters thatwere like the size of the QE2.
You know, it was just like.
But on the way back we stoppedat a petrol station I've got
some photos actually and theysold machine guns in this petrol
station.
And it's just that moment oflike, because of course they
sell guns in Walmart or bulletsin Walmart, whatever they say,

(37:46):
you know.
So it's not really, but it just.
I was like I'm in moscow, I'venever been before, might not
ever go again certainly now, andI was like fucking hell yeah,
like literally, you know, Icould have had two, two too many
vodkas and got the hump withsomeone.
Just bought myself a gun.
I'm off to the petrol station.
Yeah, I'm off to the petrolstation.
Yeah, that was a.
That was a weird moment, Ithink, think.
And then I suppose, you know,when I was younger we did some
sort of proper ghetto trips inPhilly.
That were like scary moments.

Tom Marchant (38:06):
Do you think that sometimes we travel and I think
people see it that way becauseit's notionally safe, it's a
holiday.
Sometimes people go, they gointo places and they always
think, well, I'm on a holidayhere, it's all going to be
almost like Disney-fied and likeDisney-fied.
And I remember like being inRio many years ago but
travelling there on a big Braziltrip.
And you get down there andyou're like, oh, I'll go to
Copacabana.
And you know people say, be abit aware of it.

(38:27):
And you're like, oh, that'sfine.
And then probably the first dayin just walking along and you
know it was the old, there wereall these little tricks they'd
use to like, yeah, crime inBrazil.
But I remember this personbashed into me and my partner
and basically sort of dropped ahot dog all over like my mate's
shirt and it was random, andthey started trying to rub it

(38:48):
down and as they were doing itthey were basically just sort of
pickpocketing and then you sortof learn about it afterwards,
but in a way it's like maybethat sort of needs to people can
put any type of travel into awell, it's my holidays, it's
going to be safe, and I'm notsaying nowhere's safe, but I
think it's sometimes a reminderthat not just because it's not

(39:10):
just your country, it doesn'tmean that it doesn't have the
same kind of challenges andconcerns at times, I guess.

Dan Flower (39:16):
I think you person you are, isn't it?
I mean, you know there's thishave you seen that german bloke?
He sounds south african.
That just sort of literallyonly goes to the worst places in
the world and he's advised notto do it and he's he's making it
.
I'm a bit like that's just abit baity for me, like it's not,
it's not.
You know, running intosomething coincidentally because
you're there and you maybe tooka wrong turn is one thing.
Going to actively seek, it waslike you know, that's what Vice

(39:37):
used to do.
You know, kind of I loved whatthey did with their documentary
making, but then it was just itwas like two things.
It was like discos in war zonesor sex workers in East Africa
and it was like the same samesame.
You're like you're just, Idon't know your reason for doing
it and how you're working.
I don't feel that you're.

Tom Marchant (39:53):
Holidays in the axis of evil.
Yeah, that's just yeah.
I think it's just yeah, beatty,you've shaped, led and
redefined, defined.
Some of you know some of thetruly iconic brands in media and
fashion.
I mean, have you ever had atrip where you've sort of got
inspiration that's maybe had aprofound influence on your

(40:13):
creative outlook or inspiredprojects, or whether parts of
the world you'd go to if youwere looking for inspiration, or
does it all just emanate fromthe magic of your mind?
God?

Dan Flower (40:21):
that's a tough one.
I mean.
I take inspiration every dayfrom things.
You know, youth culture is mything.
Right, this might sound alittle bit dodgy as a
52-year-old man, but you know Ihave a 20-year-old daughter and
her and her friends, and whatthey do, she's real creative.
She's part of these littlecrews that are designers or DJs
or producers, you know, and thethings that they're doing now,

(40:42):
particularly with you know,again, we say tech is a problem,
but you know these 1920s aremaking really great content and
films.
And so in my work, when I'vebeen to cities before we've
launched the Soho House, or whenwe've wanted to just partner
with people in other countriesfor the face, observing it as
like some sort of culturalomnivore, what's going on in

(41:03):
youth culture, I find reallyexciting and really interesting
and I get a real buzz out of it.
And also, you know, it's whateverybody wants now because
ultimately, whatever we're doingnow is only relevant for a bit
and then it's next.
And you know, and if you'reable to look at what's coming
through and what's interestingand seeing that around the world
and how there's the differences, but also like the, you know,

(41:23):
when you talk to kids in Germany, they're so like obsessed with
London.
They're like, oh my god, butyou guys are doing it and you
kind of get a little buzz.
It's like, yeah, I fix London,I'm just a citizen from there.
But you do get a little bit ofa so yeah or not, but no, it has
.

Tom Marchant (41:38):
I think, like I mean it's interesting for us.
So, like we, you know, so we dotravel for all different
demographics and generations doa lot of families, uh, couples,
groups.
But we're seeing the role of,like, the younger generations,
um, that they play ininfluencing decision making by
parents, grandparents, wherethey're going on their holidays,
becoming even more moresignificant because they're way

(41:58):
more focused on the impact oftravel if they're going
somewhere.
So, understanding what is theimpact of them traveling to this
place, like, how does thataffect the sustainability of
that place?
Like, is it regenerative?
Is it actually?
Is the income going into thatplace going to have a positive
effect?
You know, going back to some ofthe stuff we're talking about
earlier, where people rushingI'm going to stick this in there
but it's money coming out ofthat country, not going to the
community, coming back and todivert.

(42:18):
That is how we've alwaysoperated as a company, like
we've always been interested inthe community.
So how can we help them?
But what has been good to seeand is increasing is the
conversations and the, theinfluence that the younger
generation saying I want totravel but I want to know what
impact I'm having.
Also, I want to know more aboutthe company I'm using.
You know what do they stand for.
Like you know, do they stand upto scrutiny in terms of what

(42:38):
they're saying.
You know there was I mean notso much now, but for years in
travel there's a lot ofgreenwashing.
You know like everyone werelike, oh, we're doing this.
You know token, you know csr, alot of hotels.
You know they'd.
They'd say they're doing stuff,but it was tokenism.
You know like it's like whenevery hotel was like getting
spars.
You know like some hotel wouldjust find a broom cupboard,
stick a gurney in it and saywe've got a spa, you know, and
so it was.
So it just feels there's moreintegrity to it now and the

(43:01):
younger generation is drivingthat in terms of yeah.

Dan Flower (43:03):
I agree, but that's really hard for you and a
business, isn't it?
Because, you're right, there'sbeen so much greenwashing, so
much information the carbontokens or whatever they're
called that you can buy tooffset your contribution.
I mean, I've been working witha guy that owns this app called
Earth and it's reallyinteresting because you, you
know he talks about when you goon holiday.
The airline has aresponsibility for its emissions
and it will deal with that.

(43:23):
You have a responsibility onyour way to the airport, how you
choose to get there.
The hotel at the end has theirresponsibility for their
emissions.
But when you're staying in thehotel, that three days of you
just breathing in there andbeing there, you are, you're,
you're emitting x, y.
So you've agreed how I'm goingto get there, I'm going to take
responsibility for that.
The hotels agreed and they takeresponsibility for that.

(43:44):
But there's this sort of comingtogether moment Same with
concerts, same with gigs.
The venues take theirresponsibility.
And it's hard because I've donea little bit of work and
research on this and this kindof reforestation, coral
replantation, all these thingsthat they claim that they can do
, and all these things that theyclaim that they can do, there
is only one body that'sconsidered the body that you can
look at, and they got pulledlast year on some.
So it's really difficult tomeasure it in an accurate way.

(44:07):
So all you can do is try that'sit and assume and hope that
what you're doing is just makingit, you know, some kind of
lesser impact, but it's veryhard.
And I think also older hotels.
It's a lot more difficult forthem because if you've got big,
big, grand old gaffes justtrying to insulate it and blow
the energy and change the bulbs,it's quite difficult.

Tom Marchant (44:27):
It's not easy.
I think you're absolutely right.
I think there has to be likeit's a good point about trying
and like an honesty about whatyou're doing.
I think, as've also seen, likewith regenerative, there's one
thing about, yeah, the impact ofit, but it's also like travel
is a force for good in certainways, like it's always a force

(44:48):
for good.
But we've seen it how, bychoosing to work communities and
going look, originally, evenwhen COVID happened, people said
, oh well, you know, we.
Well, there's communitiesaround the world who've been
relying on people coming andseeing them for hundreds of
years.
They depend on that, not in akind of like we're going to hawk
our wares, but like they enjoythat sensitive, informed travel.
And if you're putting moneyinto these places which they can

(45:09):
use to kind of, you know,either regenerate or build or
progress, like we said before,that is doing something good.
But it's just trying to findthat out, because there's also
in this greenwashing world,because there's also in this
greenwashing world there are somany messages being pushed to
people the whole time that itcan be hard to kind of cut
through Exactly and you don'tknow what's right.

Dan Flower (45:23):
I think all you can do is just trust your instincts
and know that you know.
If you did go to the airport ina diesel taxi, you're probably
throwing a bit more out than ifyou got the train you know, and
that's the kind of thing.

Tom Marchant (45:36):
I'm just wrapping up, dan, right now, and it
probably changes because you'rewell travelled.
You're thinking about culturesaround the world changing, but
if someone's coming to you andsaying I'm looking to go
somewhere extraordinary,something that's left a big
impression on you, you're goingthere.
Is there a place or a part ofthe world that jumps to mind?
Or I mean, it probably changesall the time, but somewhere
that's just intriguing you, yeahgod, do you?

Dan Flower (45:56):
I really don't sorry , no that's I mean like Moscow
is an eye-opener.
You know, that's obviously kindof very, very different, you
know, and just little thingslike chandeliers and the subway
stations and you know, justbeing a bit scared to do this or
this.
Yeah, you know, you can goshooting underneath like pubs.
You can go upstairs and geteight points and you can go
downstairs and sit in this cageand shoot things and and then

(46:17):
there's this little guy at theback that's just sort of like
the smoking man in X-Files andyou say to the guy, what's he
there for?
And it's like any of you lotget silly.
He shoots you and you're like,whoa, okay, right, that was like
, but really I don't know ifthere's anywhere that you know
I'm kind of going oh my.

Tom Marchant (46:36):
God that was so after I was there for like six
months when I was 21.
And have a very similar take onit.
You know, obviously, like yousaid, it's changed a lot.
Probably can't go back, and forgood reasons.
But I remember the first time Itook the Metro and stepping out
into those cathedrals ofstations there and just being
blown away, but then the edgewhere you walk somewhere.
It's a pretty heady combination.

Owen Vince (46:57):
Yeah.

Tom Marchant (46:58):
But you know you certainly feel a lot yeah, yeah,
I mean quite I've done.

Dan Flower (47:02):
You know, nowhere near like you, but I've been to
some incredible places.
But is there someone that I'vegone?
I've gone, right, that's justwasn't what I was expecting.
You really need to do this.
I think anywhere I've had agood meal, yeah, so I'm telling
people I'm gonna go back to yourrecommendation.

Tom Marchant (47:14):
There's some special.
We talked about the pursuit offeeling.
What does that mean to you?
Like if you don't driving forthat, like if you're well?

Dan Flower (47:21):
I suppose it's like.
Your original question is likeare you going to places for a
feeling?
Are you going to a placebecause you want to visit that
and then the feeling comes.
You know, if you're curious andyou want to learn, then I
suppose you want, you knowyou're picking places to go to
find that feeling, to feel thatyou've grown and you've learned.
But I would say, for me a lot ofit is just about getting that
break yeah you know, gettingthat break and getting that

(47:42):
feeling of, okay, I'm actuallygonna and, by the way, I'm
terrible at it, you know likeI'm a liar when I say I switch
the phone off and things likethat, yeah, but it's at least a
lot better than if I'm wanderingaround london and bumping into
people that moment.
Oh shit, I should have donethat.
I want to do that one.
So, yeah, the pursuit of thefeeling is you know, I just want
to see interesting, eat somegreat food and just be around
good people.

Tom Marchant (48:00):
Where are you off to next?
Anything on the horizon?

Dan Flower (48:02):
Thailand next week, Very good.
Thailand.
Next week Philly.
A few weeks ago possibly Parisfor fashion week when I get back
from Thailand.
So yeah, they're on the on thetable at the moment.
I think this summer I'm goingto try and do something with my
daughter.
You know, I just lovetravelling with my kids.
It's great because I had kidsyoung and I was a very young
daddy and they're my mates now.

(48:23):
And so I did San Sebastian withJosh and we just went on this
food odyssey and it was great.
And then Summer and I didPhilly recently and we're going
to try and do something thissummer, not sure where yet, but
I just want to do it with herthat's amazing.

Tom Marchant (48:34):
What a dream.
Dan Flower, thank you very muchfor coming on the Pursuit of
Feeling podcast.
It's been an absolute pleasure,as I knew it would be.
Thank you, thank you for havingme mate.

Dan Flower (48:41):
Yeah, enjoyed it, Cheers.

Owen Vince (48:44):
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