July 12, 2025 • 27 mins
For this week's episode, we were honored to sit down with Fern Mallis – the celebrated creator of New York Fashion Week who, through her own Fashion Icons conversation series, has bent the ear of the titans of fashion.
So, turning the tables, we talked about the feelings that motivate her travels. Along the way, she shared her insights and experiences from a lifetime spent at the top of the industry, offering tips and recommendations on everything from her native New York to India – a country she's visited an astonishing 50 times.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Owen Vince (00:01):
You're listening to the Pursuit of Feeling, a
podcast by Black Tomato.
In this new series, we want toexplore not only the world of
travel, but the world of emotionand what it ultimately means to
feel our way through the world.
In each episode, you'll alsoget a Rolodex of recommendations
from our guests on where to go,what to do and where to stay
(00:23):
all around the world.
Where to go what to do?
Brendan Drewniany (00:25):
and where to stay all around the world.
On today's episode, I'm joinedby the award-winning, legendary
Fern Malice, an industry titan,described by many as the Doyenne
and the godmother of New YorkFashion Week, known for her
celebrated fashion icon seriesat the prestigious 92nd Street Y
, where she sets intimatedialogues with industry legends
from Tom Ford to VictoriaBeckham, to Bill Cunningham and
Diane Wittenfelsenberg.
(00:46):
She has shaped how weexperience fashion today and
around the world.
Her global outlook andinspiration has been shaped by
her many adventures, includingIndia, and she brings her
distinctive perspective to ourpodcast.
We're here with Fern Malice,who's, among many things, the
godmother of New York FashionWeek and a true icon, and we
couldn't be more grateful tohave you here.
So thank you so much for coming, fern.
Fern Mallis (01:07):
My pleasure.
Brendan Drewniany (01:08):
So I wanted to kind of get into a bit about
your upbringing and connectionto the city.
You're a native New Yorker.
How have you seen kind of withyour family in the business of
textiles and being in thegarment district?
How have you seen that spacechange or even New York more
generally?
Fern Mallis (01:22):
Well, New York has changed a lot since I grew up in
Brooklyn, many, many decadesago.
But it's changed likeeverything else has changed in
the world.
When I was a kid and went towork with my dad, and every day
off from school and holiday,this garment center was filled
with garmentos the men on thestreet who worked in the
showrooms and I say garmentoslovingly, but they also wear all
(01:44):
the deliveries and the trucksand the trolleys with bolts and
bolts of fabric and racks andracks of clothing coming out of
showrooms onto trucks and youcould see the industry
physically happening.
You can see the factories wherethings were being made and then
you could see them put onhangers.
You could see them getting intrucks going to stores.
You don't see any of thatanymore.
(02:05):
All of that is offshore now.
All of that's in Bangladesh orIndia or Vietnam.
Most of the showrooms, thefactories that were in the
garment center, are now officespaces.
Many, many buildings are hotels.
It's completely changed thedynamic of the business.
You know, you used to go up anddown the streets and you'd know
(02:32):
God, that's 557th Avenue.
That's where Oscar is and BillBlass is and Donna's business
and this one and that one andCarolina.
You know all that's kind ofchanged now when I was at the
CFDA.
Our offices are right in theheart of that, at 1412 Broadway.
They're not there anymore.
They eventually moved down toSoho and now they don't even
have an office.
So the Garment Center doesn'thave that exciting pulse of oh
my God, I want to be part ofthis industry.
It's just another bunch ofblocks in New York.
Brendan Drewniany (02:53):
Sure, I imagine that's just quite
jarring, or interesting, though,to see that kind of evolution.
Looking a little bit furtherafield from New York, you have a
special connection to theHamptons.
We'd just love to hear abouthow that is for you.
Connection to the Hamptons,we'd just love to hear about how
that is for you.
Is it an escape?
Great groups of friends Likewhat does it mean to you as a
destination?
Fern Mallis (03:08):
I don't think I'd still be alive if I didn't have
my house in South Hampton.
It's where I go, and it's likeputting your phone on the
charger.
I'm there and I get my batteryrefilled.
Brendan Drewniany (03:18):
Absolutely.
Fern Mallis (03:20):
I'm on a beautiful lake and I've been in a
particular house I'm have.
Now it's like 28 years wow andbefore that I rented for six
years on the lake I'm on, andbefore that I rented all through
since I got out of college indifferent places, but I wound up
buying the house and renting onthat lake when I joined CFDA in
1991 and uh, with Stan Hermanwho had has a house there for
(03:43):
60-some-odd years.
Brendan Drewniany (03:44):
Okay.
Fern Mallis (03:44):
And I rented one of his cottages and I fell in love
with being there, and six yearslater it was a house on the
lake that I wound up buying.
Brendan Drewniany (03:52):
Ah, I love that.
Fern Mallis (03:53):
And it's been transformative.
For me it's really special, andthe Hamptons has changed like
everything else.
Brendan Drewniany (03:59):
Indeed.
Fern Mallis (04:00):
There's way too much traffic, way too many
people there Bad drivers,everything.
Brendan Drewniany (04:02):
There's way too much traffic, way too many
people there Bad drivers.
Fern Mallis (04:03):
Everything has gotten so expensive, little
houses that you could findcottages, I mean, are
multi-millions of dollars now.
I mean, when I was there thebeginning and through the years
growing up, artists and writers,all were in the Hamptons, all
the artists I mean artistsunless you're In the Springs
especially too.
Yeah, unless you're like at theGozian Gallery you can't afford
(04:26):
to live there and work thereit's true, and that's what's
happened in New York.
Young, creative talent from allover the world and all over the
country.
All they ever wanted to do wasgraduate and go to New York.
Brendan Drewniany (04:36):
Right.
Fern Mallis (04:37):
I don't know where they live, can't even afford
Brooklyn anymore.
Brendan Drewniany (04:39):
Queens is expensive.
Fern Mallis (04:40):
Queens is expensive I mean maybe some are going to
the Bronx.
I don't know it could be I meanI don't think they're going to
Staten Island, but you know,we'll see.
That's what's changed.
But that's, the world haschanged and I don't want to
sound like a curmudgeon.
You know you have to just kindof roll with it.
Brendan Drewniany (04:55):
Yeah, it's very true.
I think it's interesting.
Traveled the world, but alsoyou've traveled the States, and
when you were a young editor,Mademoiselle.
We'd love to hear more aboutthat, because you were exposed
to many different marketsthroughout the US and I think
even have some upcoming travelsto domestically.
We'd just love to hear a littlebit more about that.
Fern Mallis (05:14):
When I was at Mademoiselle, one of the jobs I
had was in the merchandisingdepartment, which meant that we
would go to big departmentstores everywhere and do
promotions with the magazine.
So if it was a month where bodyfashions were featured, you
know we do an event in thatdepartment in the store.
One year I traveled with thisincredible Russian gymnast, nick
(05:38):
Kronowski.
He would show people how to doall these extraordinary things
and we'd clear the department,put on a little show and you
know we do all these differentevents all over the country.
We did events called OnLocation.
We do makeovers in the store andclear, you know, a floor in the
clothing department and sendpeople to the bathrooms to get
(05:58):
their hair washed and do hairand makeup and dress them up,
and we did all sorts of eventsthat tied into the magazine's
themes.
I mean you name it.
I went to every city, fromPeoria to Chicago and Dallas and
Houston and Austin and in thecountry I was at a very young
age and I used to have to go andrent cars sometimes in these
(06:18):
cities and I was almost tooyoung to even rent a car.
It was an extraordinaryexperience and all the stores
that we did events in all wereregional department stores.
There was Meijer and FrankHigby's and.
Perdine's, and I mean I can'tremember all the names now.
Now they're all Macy's.
Right At a certain point,macy's bought every store and
became homogenized and notanymore the local store that you
(06:41):
grew up with, marshall Fieldsin Chicago.
Right yeah, marshall Fieldsdoesn't exist anymore, the local
store that you grew up with,marshall Fields in Chicago.
Brendan Drewniany (06:44):
Right yeah, marshall Fields doesn't exist
anymore.
Fern Mallis (06:47):
That's kind of sad.
Brendan Drewniany (06:48):
It is.
Fern Mallis (06:48):
But it was an extraordinary experience
traveling around the country andseeing all those places.
Brendan Drewniany (06:53):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (06:54):
And I still in the last bunch of years when I left
IMG and left Fashion Week, I wasadvisor and consultant to
Charleston Fashion Week for likesix, seven years and to
Philadelphia, you know, and I'dbeen done trips to Gadd and
Savannah.
Brendan Drewniany (07:09):
Sure.
Fern Mallis (07:10):
And you know, and then we do San Antonio Fashion
Week once and Omaha, and it wasgreat.
And I, Charleston is one of myfavorite cities, two stores
there that I buy more thananything that I buy in New York.
Brendan Drewniany (07:22):
I really, which stores that I buy more
than?
Fern Mallis (07:23):
anything that I buy in New York Really, which
stores RTW owned by a woman,janice McNaminen, who's like a
Geraldine Stutz character fromthe Bendel days like a real old
merchant and another storecalled Worthwhile which is very
edgy European kind of brands andI love those stores.
Brendan Drewniany (07:39):
What do you think about Charleston too?
What draws you to it Is it hasa sort of European sensibility,
but it's very much its own.
Fern Mallis (07:45):
Southern charm.
You know, it's just everybody'spolite.
Brendan Drewniany (07:48):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (07:55):
Everybody's nice and Charleston, I love King
street.
I mean, it's so manyindependent brands and shops.
It's not like what East Hamptonhas become.
Brendan Drewniany (07:59):
Right.
Fern Mallis (08:00):
I mean, now you go to East Hampton and it's Prada
and Vuitton and Chanel and.
Balenciaga, and I hate that youknow, that's not what the
Hamptons should be.
All those people can buy andafford that.
Brendan Drewniany (08:12):
Get it in New .
Owen Vince (08:12):
York or get it in Europe, you know.
Fern Mallis (08:14):
I mean, but Charleston has maintained that
kind of charming what you alwaysfind, like there's a great
shirt shop and a great cowboyboot store.
Brendan Drewniany (08:22):
And.
Fern Mallis (08:23):
I mean.
Everything there is lovely andthe food is spectacular.
Brendan Drewniany (08:30):
Now looking a bit further afield with India,
like you have a pretty personalconnection to India and is there
some sort of emotional pull?
You know you've been reallyparamount with bringing Indian
fashion into focus and wouldlove to hear just about trip
that they told me I'm going onis to India.
Fern Mallis (08:55):
And I went.
Really, I was not crazy aboutgoing.
Brendan Drewniany (08:58):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (08:59):
I have an older sister who's an architect and
when she graduated from Harvard,the GSD, she won a Fulbright
and she spent a year in Indiaand she was the Indian one in
the family, you know, andtraveled and lived in Ahmedabad
and all over the place and I waslike I'm going to Italy, you
could stay in India.
But then this trip happened.
I literally I got off the planein the middle of the night.
(09:20):
You land there like three inthe morning, you know, and you
get a smell of India, of earth,when you get off.
First trip.
The airport was a real oldairport and you know lines of
people and one guy withmountains of papers stamping
real old airport.
And you know lines of peopleand one guy with mountains of
papers stamping things.
Now it's one of the mostsophisticated, gorgeous global
airports in the world.
But I remember getting in thecar and driving to the taj mahal
(09:42):
palace, you know, by thegateway of india, one of the
most fabulous hotels in theworld and probably still to this
day my favorite hotel.
Arrived there in the crack ofdawn and in the middle of the
night and it felt like GrandCentral Station.
There was so many.
I mean the whole ride.
There were people on thestreets everywhere and the
animals on the street and littleshops and things.
(10:03):
Where you go.
How do people be so resourcefulin these like tiny spaces?
Brendan Drewniany (10:08):
Right.
Fern Mallis (10:09):
It's an extraordinary country and the
hotel was spectacular and thenext day I met all the designers
that were part of the upcomingfirst fashion week in Mumbai and
I fell in love with all of themand we had a fabulous week.
I shared lots of expertise ofhow to tighten this up and make
this better and how to do thisthis way and that way, and you
(10:30):
know, and that became the firstof some 50, 60 trips to India.
Brendan Drewniany (10:35):
Wow.
Fern Mallis (10:36):
You know I was going several times a year and
then we did it in Delhi and thenback to Mumbai and then Delhi
and subsequently you know Iwould try to carve out time
there to go to Rajasthan andHardivar and then, into the
South, to Kerala.
Owen Vince (10:49):
Oh yeah.
Fern Mallis (10:49):
And I mean I've covered a fair amount of the
country and Goa.
Lots of friends who's hadhouses in Goa.
That's their Hamptons.
If you live in Mumbai, you havea house in Goa.
Brendan Drewniany (10:58):
Sure.
Fern Mallis (10:59):
And you know you take a quick flight there and
that was always fabulous.
It was like their Hamptons orit felt like Indian St Barts.
Oh, that's a great description,it's wonderful and I have so
many friends there.
I and I have so many friendsthere.
I mean, I go to shops andjewelry stores where the
necklaces I'm wearing are fromand.
I walk in and they're like hi,Fern, welcome back.
You know, they all know me.
(11:20):
I send friends to go to thoseplaces and I say ask for Fern's
price.
I always get Fern's priceeverywhere and you know, and
it's great, and I've had many,many birthdays in India because
Fashion Week would fall manytimes in into March sure and
many parties at the Taj Hotel,you know, and I'd come in and
I'd have my pillows on my bedwere monogrammed by them.
(11:42):
I'd come back to the room andthere were balloons and rose
petals everywhere and cakes andbuckets of red roses.
Brendan Drewniany (11:48):
I mean, they just know how to treat their
guests royally they do, theyreally know hospitality, and
it's from a place of warmth andauthenticity and everybody.
Fern Mallis (11:58):
the service is extraordinary.
Years later, when I went backto do a conference there for the
hindustan times, I broughtcalvin klein and donna karen
with me and we were all at thehotel and it was great.
Donna had some textile guy withall the silks coming to her
suite, buckets and buckets ofscarves and prints and fabrics
(12:19):
and she's like which ones do you?
I like that one, I like that.
One Season later I saw them cutinto things in her collection.
Brendan Drewniany (12:25):
Oh, that's remarkable.
Fern Mallis (12:26):
I loved it.
I took Calvin to this one of myfavorite restaurants there,
trishna in Mumbai.
Oh my God, it's like I makeeverybody go there.
Yeah, but everybody in india isjust nice, you know.
I mean, they really are yeahthe clothing and the jewelry
there is sort of a mecca, ohit's, it's pandora's box.
Brendan Drewniany (12:44):
It's fantastic your travel style.
Are you someone that'sitinerized?
Are you someone that goes withthe flow?
Do you like to wander?
Do you like to get a bit lost,like what's?
Fern Mallis (12:54):
I think years ago I did.
Now I'm not so sure aboutwandering and getting lost, but
I don't like being so rigid, Ilike having a little flexibility
.
I would prefer to have in myphone.
I know exactly the car iscoming, you know, and or the
number of the driver, you know.
In India you always have a carand driver, no matter what you
(13:16):
know, and they drive you forother cities and you don't ever
have to worry about them.
They stay in.
It's your first time doing that.
You go really yeah but they're,they're terrific so fern.
Brendan Drewniany (13:27):
You've been with fashion week, new york
fashion week since the beginning.
You've been sort of thispioneer it's so many other
places now we've just discussedindia, but paris and and how've
been sort of this pioneer it'sso many other places now We've
just discussed India, but Parisand how have you sort of seen
the space grow?
How has it changed over theyears, with new destinations,
emerging destinations, and howis it different?
How is it kind of the same Like?
What does it look like kind oftoday, not just necessarily New
(13:49):
York, but perhaps fashion andother places.
Fern Mallis (13:51):
Well, when I started and put together New
York Fashion Week and organizedit and modernized it and
centralized it, which was ourmission, paris and Milan were
very established, functioningfashion weeks with a destination
and a central place where mostof it happened, although even in
Paris, with the centrallocation, which was in the
(14:13):
courtyard of the Louvre, andthen after the pyramid was built
, there was a space underneaththere that was for Fashion Week,
but people had shows, all youknow, in various places around
the city, because Paris has someextraordinary venues and places
and buildings.
Same in Milan, but Milan formany years had their shows at
the Fiera grounds where the bigtrade fairs are.
(14:37):
And London also had a smallerfashion week, new York.
You know, when I started it,there were 50 shows in 50
locations.
Nobody knew what was happening.
It was like, you know, if youweren't in the business, you had
no idea.
You know you'd go down 7thAvenue close by and you know you
maybe would see a line outside.
You didn't know if it was for asample sale or you know what
(14:58):
was going on.
You know, until we organized itand put it together in Bryant
Park and it became an event thatpeople knew.
Every taxi driver knew it washappening.
Everybody knew it was happening.
You know, after the success ofNew York over many years there
were lots of other cities thatthen saw that and copied that.
I mean, my friends in australiacame and copied it and created
(15:22):
a fashion week in sydney and onein melbourne.
Um, the india locked me fashionweek in mumbai.
They came here and saw that andtried to replicate it.
And then img got involved andbought us.
And that's when I went overthere.
Other countries were like wecould do that too.
You know, like, because theysaw the economic engine that it
provided.
It created publicity for thiscity in the country.
(15:45):
It created business.
People were booking hotel rooms, restaurants, parties and
openings.
And you know so at a certainpoint in my career I was going
all over the world as img'sfashion week ambassador, going
to dubai, going to amsterdam.
We created week in berlin.
We bought the australian group,we bought the um, made deals
(16:07):
with the moscow fashion week andum, we're going to toronto,
created a fashion week.
We got involved there.
Mexico City, you know everybodywanted to have a fashion week
in their country.
And now, literally I don't thinkthere's a country out there
that doesn't have a fashion week.
Go to Africa, nairobi and Ghana, and all the countries, even in
(16:27):
Africa.
I mean, I went many times toSouth Africa's fashion week in
Johannesburg, which is fabulous,and then the same thing happens
in America.
We used to call regionalfashion weeks, like I said,
charleston and Boston andNashville every city wants a
piece of that and the bottomline is that there's talented
(16:48):
people everywhere.
You don't have to be in NewYork to be a designer.
You know you can be anywhereand make clothing and you know,
and you're just always lookingfor a platform to show it to
people.
You know, and lots of thesecities, you know, would go after
corporate sponsorship.
Taking the cue from what we didin New York.
We were the first fashion weekthat had corporate sponsors to
(17:09):
pay for things and have sponsorsand lounges and all of that,
and so they all looked at thatand said why don't we do that?
But you know, I've been a hugesupporter of those regional
weeks because let people do it.
And now there are fewer storesand department stores.
There's no Lord and Taylor,there's no Barney's,
everything's changed, and someof the even big e-commerce sites
(17:31):
have fallen and there's lots ofnew ones.
But now, because of this thingyou hold in your hand all day
long, your iPhone and Instagrameverybody can have a storefront
and be in business.
You know, you just need tocreate something that goes viral
or captures somebody'sattention and from nothing you
can all of a sudden havemillions of followers and start
(17:51):
a business.
You know, do it in your garage,do it go to some friend's
factory.
I mean, people are resourcefulnow.
It wasn't so easy a long timeago, but now it's kind of easy
to do something.
But you have to be creative.
You have to have something thatpeople want and that fills some
niche somewhere, you know.
So that's where fashion haschanged.
(18:12):
But this thing has replaced alot of travel for everybody, and
when I speak to student groupsand school groups, I say get
away from your computer and youriphone, get on a plane, get on
a train.
Travel absolutely travel, seethe world with your own eyes,
not through somebody else's andnot through a three inch picture
(18:32):
.
Owen Vince (18:32):
That's not it.
Brendan Drewniany (18:34):
No.
Fern Mallis (18:34):
Even on television it's not.
Go and experience it yourselfand you absorb that you learn so
much about other cultures andyou you have to be you know
Helen Keller to not come backand spoil it.
Exactly.
Brendan Drewniany (18:47):
When it comes to travel, what inspires like?
Is it a sense of discovery?
Do you like discovering newthings?
Is it what draws you Fern tochoose to go somewhere?
Let's say it's Japan.
Is it to source something?
Is it to be with someone?
Is it for a vibe, or is it Well, it's a combination.
Fern Mallis (19:02):
Some of it is just work and it's an opportunity for
a job and an opportunity to dosomething.
You know, I still have bills topay, so I need to keep working.
Otherwise, you want to take atrip to relax and to chill, and
I mean take a vacation.
I'm very jealous.
My sister just came back fromalmost three weeks in Greece and
(19:25):
several days in London, youknow, and I was watching her
pictures and her drawings thatshe was doing and I'm like, oh
God, I want to be there.
I want that Greek salad, youknow, right by the harbor, and
that's what I look forward to.
I used to go to St Bart's a lotin the winter.
Truthfully, once I got my housein the Hamptons, I don't take
vacations as much because I feellike I have the house but the
(19:48):
house is not a vacation you getout there.
You gotta get the groceries,you gotta water the this and
that and take care of things.
I'm in need of a nice.
I want to be somewhere wheresomebody brings me a pina colada
and just says what else can Ibring you?
You know, and, uh, what willyou have for dinner?
Brendan Drewniany (20:05):
what is like your ideal day in new york?
And if you're not necessarilyworking, like where would you go
to have lunch?
Where would you grab a coffee?
Could be your neighborhood,have a drink early dinner, like
what does that look for you?
Fern Mallis (20:17):
well, I live on the Upper East Side and I have a
nice apartment and I have alovely terrace that has a lot of
beautiful plants on it and italso has a nice big Harris Waltz
sign on it I love it.
I have one too and when I'm inthe city I like sitting out
there, weather permitting, andthis fall has been ridiculous in
(20:40):
new york.
The weather's just beengorgeous, so I mean I will hang
out there.
I have a fabulous little cafeon my corner on 68th and madison
, called bellamy which umlearned is a close at the end of
.
October after 15 years, becausethe landlord of the building is
empty and is trying to sell thebuilding, and so that's a little
(21:00):
bit of a heartbreak.
So I'm not sure where I'm goingto go for that chai latte on
the corner, to find anotherplace.
But you know, I like to justrelax and chill, read the papers
and you know, get the weekendpapers if I'm not in the country
.
There's a couple of restaurantsin my hood that I like going to
.
You know Bar Italia in LeCharleau, and you know I like
(21:24):
going to the Polo Bar.
I like Japanese food.
You know, there's a proposal inthe works.
Brendan Drewniany (21:30):
There might be a restaurant in the future
called Fern'ss very exciting sostay tuned about that absolutely
we're at a funding phase nowyou know, I mean you've
interviewed some incrediblepeople and would love to hear
more about kind of howtransformative that's been for
you.
I mean, you obviously arepersonally quite close with, I'm
sure, a lot of these people andalso sort of you know being at
(21:50):
at the Y 92nd Street Y um,you're a real you know, it's
obviously a fixture.
Yeah, how does it feel to sortof look back on all of these
fascinating people?
Fern Mallis (21:59):
well, the series fashion icons with Fern Malice
at 92 Y is has been totallytransformative and it's probably
one of the things I'm mostproud of in my life.
You know the tents were great.
They've come, come and gone,disappeared, and fashion week's
a mess now it's all over theplace.
You know, like you forget thatit was ever organized, although
(22:20):
everybody begs me to please comeback and do it and that's not
going to happen.
Yeah, but the Y series, youknow that's real content and so
far there's two books out of it,hopefully a third coming.
You know that's real contentand so far there's two books out
of it, hopefully a third coming, you know, and books are in the
library of Congress and theydid.
They did definitive interviewswith these iconic lives and
everybody from Calvin Klein andTom Ford and Mark Jacobs, andre
(22:45):
Leon Talley and DVF and VeerWang and Bill Cunningham, the
Valentino and Victoria Beckhamand the Missonis and DeSondra
Rhodes, and it goes on and onand on.
I just did Laura Roach, thestylist.
It was 700 people, over 700people screaming and loving and
(23:05):
clapping and laughing.
I love it.
They tell the story of thesepeople's lives.
I ask questions that dig deepand you know, you walk out of
there and you feel like I knowthis person.
I like them.
How did they do that?
I've always said that thedesigners are more than a name
on a label.
Who are you?
How did you build a business.
How did you start from nothing?
(23:27):
None of the people I'veinterviewed were given the keys
to the kingdom, dad's retiringyou know dad's retiring, you
take it over honey Right.
They all started from a dreamand a passion.
You know, even Leonard Lauder Iinterviewed and you know he
started with his mom in Corona,queens, I think, making formulas
in their kitchen and, you know,eventually packaging them up
(23:49):
and going to a counter at Saksand, you know, to the biggest
global beauty business, you know, in the world.
You know these people areremarkable to learn how they did
that and I love that about themand I love you know it's a
curiosity and it's sharing theirstories and it's a hugely
(24:10):
successful series going on 14years.
It's amazing.
And some 65 interviews.
Content is remarkable.
Brendan Drewniany (24:18):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (24:19):
I'm very, very proud of it.
Brendan Drewniany (24:20):
You should be , and what would you say is just
a piece of advice for someonethat is a young entrepreneur who
wants to start something Likewhat is sort of like your golden
rule of success my golden ruleis to be nice.
Fern Mallis (24:33):
That's the first advice I give everybody.
No matter what you're going todo, be nice, because nobody
wants to work with somebodywho's as entitled or thinks
they're entitled, or as a divaor a pain in the ass.
You know you have to work withpeople and there's a lot of
talent out there.
You know everybody's competingwith talented people.
You want to make the choice tobe with people that are nice,
(24:55):
you know.
And then if you're starting upa new business, you know be
focused, be clear.
Don't try to do everything.
You can't just stay narrow.
You know, hire an attorney atthe very beginning of your
business.
You know, don't wait untilyou're in trouble and need to
hire somebody.
Get it all worked out first.
And also, it's financial, youknow.
(25:15):
I mean I don't think anybodyrealizes how much money you go
through to start a business,whether it's your friends and
family or a good financialinstitution or banks that you're
working with.
You know get the money.
And you know and learn that IfI had to do one thing over again
growing up, I mean I would havespent more time learning about
finances.
(25:36):
It's easy to ignore and you knowreading spreadsheets and I mean
I always said no, somebody elsewill do that, Let me be the
creative part.
Well, no, you know, you need toknow it and take responsibility
for it.
Brendan Drewniany (25:48):
I love that.
So, yeah, where are you off tonext?
Fern Mallis (25:50):
Actually for it.
I love that.
So, yeah, where are you off tonext?
Actually, this weekend I'm offto Florence.
Alabama and I've never beenthere, and it's Billy Reed's
20th anniversary.
Brendan Drewniany (25:57):
Fantastic.
Fern Mallis (26:05):
And he's having a shindig which is his big
celebration with music and foodand fashion and tours around the
city.
And you know, I have to sign upfor the Frank Lloyd Wright
house tour and you know, andlots of great food.
And Ioyd wright house tour andum, you know, and lots of great
food, and I'm going to do aninterview with billy to talk
about how he started thatbusiness and what it means, and
um, so that should be a fun trip.
Brendan Drewniany (26:20):
Yeah, wonderful I love that, fern.
Thank you so much for beingwith us and, uh, it's been an
absolute pleasure you've beenlistening to the pursuit of
feeling, a podcast by blacktomato.
Owen Vince (26:32):
If you've enjoyed this episode, then please hit
the subscribe button.
We've got a lot more episodeson the way and if you're feeling
inspired by what you've heardtoday, then visit blacktomatocom
.
We'll help you to travel whereyour heart is.
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to the Pursuit of Feeling, a
podcast by Black Tomato.
In this new series, we want toexplore not only the world of
travel, but the world of emotionand what it ultimately means to
feel our way through the world.
In each episode, you'll alsoget a Rolodex of recommendations
from our guests on where to go,what to do and where to stay
(00:23):
all around the world.
Where to go what to do?
Brendan Drewniany (00:25):
and where to stay all around the world.
On today's episode, I'm joinedby the award-winning, legendary
Fern Malice, an industry titan,described by many as the Doyenne
and the godmother of New YorkFashion Week, known for her
celebrated fashion icon seriesat the prestigious 92nd Street Y
, where she sets intimatedialogues with industry legends
from Tom Ford to VictoriaBeckham, to Bill Cunningham and
Diane Wittenfelsenberg.
(00:46):
She has shaped how weexperience fashion today and
around the world.
Her global outlook andinspiration has been shaped by
her many adventures, includingIndia, and she brings her
distinctive perspective to ourpodcast.
We're here with Fern Malice,who's, among many things, the
godmother of New York FashionWeek and a true icon, and we
couldn't be more grateful tohave you here.
So thank you so much for coming, fern.
Fern Mallis (01:07):
My pleasure.
Brendan Drewniany (01:08):
So I wanted to kind of get into a bit about
your upbringing and connectionto the city.
You're a native New Yorker.
How have you seen kind of withyour family in the business of
textiles and being in thegarment district?
How have you seen that spacechange or even New York more
generally?
Fern Mallis (01:22):
Well, New York has changed a lot since I grew up in
Brooklyn, many, many decadesago.
But it's changed likeeverything else has changed in
the world.
When I was a kid and went towork with my dad, and every day
off from school and holiday,this garment center was filled
with garmentos the men on thestreet who worked in the
showrooms and I say garmentoslovingly, but they also wear all
(01:44):
the deliveries and the trucksand the trolleys with bolts and
bolts of fabric and racks andracks of clothing coming out of
showrooms onto trucks and youcould see the industry
physically happening.
You can see the factories wherethings were being made and then
you could see them put onhangers.
You could see them getting intrucks going to stores.
You don't see any of thatanymore.
(02:05):
All of that is offshore now.
All of that's in Bangladesh orIndia or Vietnam.
Most of the showrooms, thefactories that were in the
garment center, are now officespaces.
Many, many buildings are hotels.
It's completely changed thedynamic of the business.
You know, you used to go up anddown the streets and you'd know
(02:32):
God, that's 557th Avenue.
That's where Oscar is and BillBlass is and Donna's business
and this one and that one andCarolina.
You know all that's kind ofchanged now when I was at the
CFDA.
Our offices are right in theheart of that, at 1412 Broadway.
They're not there anymore.
They eventually moved down toSoho and now they don't even
have an office.
So the Garment Center doesn'thave that exciting pulse of oh
my God, I want to be part ofthis industry.
It's just another bunch ofblocks in New York.
Brendan Drewniany (02:53):
Sure, I imagine that's just quite
jarring, or interesting, though,to see that kind of evolution.
Looking a little bit furtherafield from New York, you have a
special connection to theHamptons.
We'd just love to hear abouthow that is for you.
Connection to the Hamptons,we'd just love to hear about how
that is for you.
Is it an escape?
Great groups of friends Likewhat does it mean to you as a
destination?
Fern Mallis (03:08):
I don't think I'd still be alive if I didn't have
my house in South Hampton.
It's where I go, and it's likeputting your phone on the
charger.
I'm there and I get my batteryrefilled.
Brendan Drewniany (03:18):
Absolutely.
Fern Mallis (03:20):
I'm on a beautiful lake and I've been in a
particular house I'm have.
Now it's like 28 years wow andbefore that I rented for six
years on the lake I'm on, andbefore that I rented all through
since I got out of college indifferent places, but I wound up
buying the house and renting onthat lake when I joined CFDA in
1991 and uh, with Stan Hermanwho had has a house there for
(03:43):
60-some-odd years.
Brendan Drewniany (03:44):
Okay.
Fern Mallis (03:44):
And I rented one of his cottages and I fell in love
with being there, and six yearslater it was a house on the
lake that I wound up buying.
Brendan Drewniany (03:52):
Ah, I love that.
Fern Mallis (03:53):
And it's been transformative.
For me it's really special, andthe Hamptons has changed like
everything else.
Brendan Drewniany (03:59):
Indeed.
Fern Mallis (04:00):
There's way too much traffic, way too many
people there Bad drivers,everything.
Brendan Drewniany (04:02):
There's way too much traffic, way too many
people there Bad drivers.
Fern Mallis (04:03):
Everything has gotten so expensive, little
houses that you could findcottages, I mean, are
multi-millions of dollars now.
I mean, when I was there thebeginning and through the years
growing up, artists and writers,all were in the Hamptons, all
the artists I mean artistsunless you're In the Springs
especially too.
Yeah, unless you're like at theGozian Gallery you can't afford
(04:26):
to live there and work thereit's true, and that's what's
happened in New York.
Young, creative talent from allover the world and all over the
country.
All they ever wanted to do wasgraduate and go to New York.
Brendan Drewniany (04:36):
Right.
Fern Mallis (04:37):
I don't know where they live, can't even afford
Brooklyn anymore.
Brendan Drewniany (04:39):
Queens is expensive.
Fern Mallis (04:40):
Queens is expensive I mean maybe some are going to
the Bronx.
I don't know it could be I meanI don't think they're going to
Staten Island, but you know,we'll see.
That's what's changed.
But that's, the world haschanged and I don't want to
sound like a curmudgeon.
You know you have to just kindof roll with it.
Brendan Drewniany (04:55):
Yeah, it's very true.
I think it's interesting.
Traveled the world, but alsoyou've traveled the States, and
when you were a young editor,Mademoiselle.
We'd love to hear more aboutthat, because you were exposed
to many different marketsthroughout the US and I think
even have some upcoming travelsto domestically.
We'd just love to hear a littlebit more about that.
Fern Mallis (05:14):
When I was at Mademoiselle, one of the jobs I
had was in the merchandisingdepartment, which meant that we
would go to big departmentstores everywhere and do
promotions with the magazine.
So if it was a month where bodyfashions were featured, you
know we do an event in thatdepartment in the store.
One year I traveled with thisincredible Russian gymnast, nick
(05:38):
Kronowski.
He would show people how to doall these extraordinary things
and we'd clear the department,put on a little show and you
know we do all these differentevents all over the country.
We did events called OnLocation.
We do makeovers in the store andclear, you know, a floor in the
clothing department and sendpeople to the bathrooms to get
(05:58):
their hair washed and do hairand makeup and dress them up,
and we did all sorts of eventsthat tied into the magazine's
themes.
I mean you name it.
I went to every city, fromPeoria to Chicago and Dallas and
Houston and Austin and in thecountry I was at a very young
age and I used to have to go andrent cars sometimes in these
(06:18):
cities and I was almost tooyoung to even rent a car.
It was an extraordinaryexperience and all the stores
that we did events in all wereregional department stores.
There was Meijer and FrankHigby's and.
Perdine's, and I mean I can'tremember all the names now.
Now they're all Macy's.
Right At a certain point,macy's bought every store and
became homogenized and notanymore the local store that you
(06:41):
grew up with, marshall Fieldsin Chicago.
Right yeah, marshall Fieldsdoesn't exist anymore, the local
store that you grew up with,marshall Fields in Chicago.
Brendan Drewniany (06:44):
Right yeah, marshall Fields doesn't exist
anymore.
Fern Mallis (06:47):
That's kind of sad.
Brendan Drewniany (06:48):
It is.
Fern Mallis (06:48):
But it was an extraordinary experience
traveling around the country andseeing all those places.
Brendan Drewniany (06:53):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (06:54):
And I still in the last bunch of years when I left
IMG and left Fashion Week, I wasadvisor and consultant to
Charleston Fashion Week for likesix, seven years and to
Philadelphia, you know, and I'dbeen done trips to Gadd and
Savannah.
Brendan Drewniany (07:09):
Sure.
Fern Mallis (07:10):
And you know, and then we do San Antonio Fashion
Week once and Omaha, and it wasgreat.
And I, Charleston is one of myfavorite cities, two stores
there that I buy more thananything that I buy in New York.
Brendan Drewniany (07:22):
I really, which stores that I buy more
than?
Fern Mallis (07:23):
anything that I buy in New York Really, which
stores RTW owned by a woman,janice McNaminen, who's like a
Geraldine Stutz character fromthe Bendel days like a real old
merchant and another storecalled Worthwhile which is very
edgy European kind of brands andI love those stores.
Brendan Drewniany (07:39):
What do you think about Charleston too?
What draws you to it Is it hasa sort of European sensibility,
but it's very much its own.
Fern Mallis (07:45):
Southern charm.
You know, it's just everybody'spolite.
Brendan Drewniany (07:48):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (07:55):
Everybody's nice and Charleston, I love King
street.
I mean, it's so manyindependent brands and shops.
It's not like what East Hamptonhas become.
Brendan Drewniany (07:59):
Right.
Fern Mallis (08:00):
I mean, now you go to East Hampton and it's Prada
and Vuitton and Chanel and.
Balenciaga, and I hate that youknow, that's not what the
Hamptons should be.
All those people can buy andafford that.
Brendan Drewniany (08:12):
Get it in New .
Owen Vince (08:12):
York or get it in Europe, you know.
Fern Mallis (08:14):
I mean, but Charleston has maintained that
kind of charming what you alwaysfind, like there's a great
shirt shop and a great cowboyboot store.
Brendan Drewniany (08:22):
And.
Fern Mallis (08:23):
I mean.
Everything there is lovely andthe food is spectacular.
Brendan Drewniany (08:30):
Now looking a bit further afield with India,
like you have a pretty personalconnection to India and is there
some sort of emotional pull?
You know you've been reallyparamount with bringing Indian
fashion into focus and wouldlove to hear just about trip
that they told me I'm going onis to India.
Fern Mallis (08:55):
And I went.
Really, I was not crazy aboutgoing.
Brendan Drewniany (08:58):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (08:59):
I have an older sister who's an architect and
when she graduated from Harvard,the GSD, she won a Fulbright
and she spent a year in Indiaand she was the Indian one in
the family, you know, andtraveled and lived in Ahmedabad
and all over the place and I waslike I'm going to Italy, you
could stay in India.
But then this trip happened.
I literally I got off the planein the middle of the night.
(09:20):
You land there like three inthe morning, you know, and you
get a smell of India, of earth,when you get off.
First trip.
The airport was a real oldairport and you know lines of
people and one guy withmountains of papers stamping
real old airport.
And you know lines of peopleand one guy with mountains of
papers stamping things.
Now it's one of the mostsophisticated, gorgeous global
airports in the world.
But I remember getting in thecar and driving to the taj mahal
(09:42):
palace, you know, by thegateway of india, one of the
most fabulous hotels in theworld and probably still to this
day my favorite hotel.
Arrived there in the crack ofdawn and in the middle of the
night and it felt like GrandCentral Station.
There was so many.
I mean the whole ride.
There were people on thestreets everywhere and the
animals on the street and littleshops and things.
(10:03):
Where you go.
How do people be so resourcefulin these like tiny spaces?
Brendan Drewniany (10:08):
Right.
Fern Mallis (10:09):
It's an extraordinary country and the
hotel was spectacular and thenext day I met all the designers
that were part of the upcomingfirst fashion week in Mumbai and
I fell in love with all of themand we had a fabulous week.
I shared lots of expertise ofhow to tighten this up and make
this better and how to do thisthis way and that way, and you
(10:30):
know, and that became the firstof some 50, 60 trips to India.
Brendan Drewniany (10:35):
Wow.
Fern Mallis (10:36):
You know I was going several times a year and
then we did it in Delhi and thenback to Mumbai and then Delhi
and subsequently you know Iwould try to carve out time
there to go to Rajasthan andHardivar and then, into the
South, to Kerala.
Owen Vince (10:49):
Oh yeah.
Fern Mallis (10:49):
And I mean I've covered a fair amount of the
country and Goa.
Lots of friends who's hadhouses in Goa.
That's their Hamptons.
If you live in Mumbai, you havea house in Goa.
Brendan Drewniany (10:58):
Sure.
Fern Mallis (10:59):
And you know you take a quick flight there and
that was always fabulous.
It was like their Hamptons orit felt like Indian St Barts.
Oh, that's a great description,it's wonderful and I have so
many friends there.
I and I have so many friendsthere.
I mean, I go to shops andjewelry stores where the
necklaces I'm wearing are fromand.
I walk in and they're like hi,Fern, welcome back.
You know, they all know me.
(11:20):
I send friends to go to thoseplaces and I say ask for Fern's
price.
I always get Fern's priceeverywhere and you know, and
it's great, and I've had many,many birthdays in India because
Fashion Week would fall manytimes in into March sure and
many parties at the Taj Hotel,you know, and I'd come in and
I'd have my pillows on my bedwere monogrammed by them.
(11:42):
I'd come back to the room andthere were balloons and rose
petals everywhere and cakes andbuckets of red roses.
Brendan Drewniany (11:48):
I mean, they just know how to treat their
guests royally they do, theyreally know hospitality, and
it's from a place of warmth andauthenticity and everybody.
Fern Mallis (11:58):
the service is extraordinary.
Years later, when I went backto do a conference there for the
hindustan times, I broughtcalvin klein and donna karen
with me and we were all at thehotel and it was great.
Donna had some textile guy withall the silks coming to her
suite, buckets and buckets ofscarves and prints and fabrics
(12:19):
and she's like which ones do you?
I like that one, I like that.
One Season later I saw them cutinto things in her collection.
Brendan Drewniany (12:25):
Oh, that's remarkable.
Fern Mallis (12:26):
I loved it.
I took Calvin to this one of myfavorite restaurants there,
trishna in Mumbai.
Oh my God, it's like I makeeverybody go there.
Yeah, but everybody in india isjust nice, you know.
I mean, they really are yeahthe clothing and the jewelry
there is sort of a mecca, ohit's, it's pandora's box.
Brendan Drewniany (12:44):
It's fantastic your travel style.
Are you someone that'sitinerized?
Are you someone that goes withthe flow?
Do you like to wander?
Do you like to get a bit lost,like what's?
Fern Mallis (12:54):
I think years ago I did.
Now I'm not so sure aboutwandering and getting lost, but
I don't like being so rigid, Ilike having a little flexibility
.
I would prefer to have in myphone.
I know exactly the car iscoming, you know, and or the
number of the driver, you know.
In India you always have a carand driver, no matter what you
(13:16):
know, and they drive you forother cities and you don't ever
have to worry about them.
They stay in.
It's your first time doing that.
You go really yeah but they're,they're terrific so fern.
Brendan Drewniany (13:27):
You've been with fashion week, new york
fashion week since the beginning.
You've been sort of thispioneer it's so many other
places now we've just discussedindia, but paris and and how've
been sort of this pioneer it'sso many other places now We've
just discussed India, but Parisand how have you sort of seen
the space grow?
How has it changed over theyears, with new destinations,
emerging destinations, and howis it different?
How is it kind of the same Like?
What does it look like kind oftoday, not just necessarily New
(13:49):
York, but perhaps fashion andother places.
Fern Mallis (13:51):
Well, when I started and put together New
York Fashion Week and organizedit and modernized it and
centralized it, which was ourmission, paris and Milan were
very established, functioningfashion weeks with a destination
and a central place where mostof it happened, although even in
Paris, with the centrallocation, which was in the
(14:13):
courtyard of the Louvre, andthen after the pyramid was built
, there was a space underneaththere that was for Fashion Week,
but people had shows, all youknow, in various places around
the city, because Paris has someextraordinary venues and places
and buildings.
Same in Milan, but Milan formany years had their shows at
the Fiera grounds where the bigtrade fairs are.
(14:37):
And London also had a smallerfashion week, new York.
You know, when I started it,there were 50 shows in 50
locations.
Nobody knew what was happening.
It was like, you know, if youweren't in the business, you had
no idea.
You know you'd go down 7thAvenue close by and you know you
maybe would see a line outside.
You didn't know if it was for asample sale or you know what
(14:58):
was going on.
You know, until we organized itand put it together in Bryant
Park and it became an event thatpeople knew.
Every taxi driver knew it washappening.
Everybody knew it was happening.
You know, after the success ofNew York over many years there
were lots of other cities thatthen saw that and copied that.
I mean, my friends in australiacame and copied it and created
(15:22):
a fashion week in sydney and onein melbourne.
Um, the india locked me fashionweek in mumbai.
They came here and saw that andtried to replicate it.
And then img got involved andbought us.
And that's when I went overthere.
Other countries were like wecould do that too.
You know, like, because theysaw the economic engine that it
provided.
It created publicity for thiscity in the country.
(15:45):
It created business.
People were booking hotel rooms, restaurants, parties and
openings.
And you know so at a certainpoint in my career I was going
all over the world as img'sfashion week ambassador, going
to dubai, going to amsterdam.
We created week in berlin.
We bought the australian group,we bought the um, made deals
(16:07):
with the moscow fashion week andum, we're going to toronto,
created a fashion week.
We got involved there.
Mexico City, you know everybodywanted to have a fashion week
in their country.
And now, literally I don't thinkthere's a country out there
that doesn't have a fashion week.
Go to Africa, nairobi and Ghana, and all the countries, even in
(16:27):
Africa.
I mean, I went many times toSouth Africa's fashion week in
Johannesburg, which is fabulous,and then the same thing happens
in America.
We used to call regionalfashion weeks, like I said,
charleston and Boston andNashville every city wants a
piece of that and the bottomline is that there's talented
(16:48):
people everywhere.
You don't have to be in NewYork to be a designer.
You know you can be anywhereand make clothing and you know,
and you're just always lookingfor a platform to show it to
people.
You know, and lots of thesecities, you know, would go after
corporate sponsorship.
Taking the cue from what we didin New York.
We were the first fashion weekthat had corporate sponsors to
(17:09):
pay for things and have sponsorsand lounges and all of that,
and so they all looked at thatand said why don't we do that?
But you know, I've been a hugesupporter of those regional
weeks because let people do it.
And now there are fewer storesand department stores.
There's no Lord and Taylor,there's no Barney's,
everything's changed, and someof the even big e-commerce sites
(17:31):
have fallen and there's lots ofnew ones.
But now, because of this thingyou hold in your hand all day
long, your iPhone and Instagrameverybody can have a storefront
and be in business.
You know, you just need tocreate something that goes viral
or captures somebody'sattention and from nothing you
can all of a sudden havemillions of followers and start
(17:51):
a business.
You know, do it in your garage,do it go to some friend's
factory.
I mean, people are resourcefulnow.
It wasn't so easy a long timeago, but now it's kind of easy
to do something.
But you have to be creative.
You have to have something thatpeople want and that fills some
niche somewhere, you know.
So that's where fashion haschanged.
(18:12):
But this thing has replaced alot of travel for everybody, and
when I speak to student groupsand school groups, I say get
away from your computer and youriphone, get on a plane, get on
a train.
Travel absolutely travel, seethe world with your own eyes,
not through somebody else's andnot through a three inch picture
(18:32):
.
Owen Vince (18:32):
That's not it.
Brendan Drewniany (18:34):
No.
Fern Mallis (18:34):
Even on television it's not.
Go and experience it yourselfand you absorb that you learn so
much about other cultures andyou you have to be you know
Helen Keller to not come backand spoil it.
Exactly.
Brendan Drewniany (18:47):
When it comes to travel, what inspires like?
Is it a sense of discovery?
Do you like discovering newthings?
Is it what draws you Fern tochoose to go somewhere?
Let's say it's Japan.
Is it to source something?
Is it to be with someone?
Is it for a vibe, or is it Well, it's a combination.
Fern Mallis (19:02):
Some of it is just work and it's an opportunity for
a job and an opportunity to dosomething.
You know, I still have bills topay, so I need to keep working.
Otherwise, you want to take atrip to relax and to chill, and
I mean take a vacation.
I'm very jealous.
My sister just came back fromalmost three weeks in Greece and
(19:25):
several days in London, youknow, and I was watching her
pictures and her drawings thatshe was doing and I'm like, oh
God, I want to be there.
I want that Greek salad, youknow, right by the harbor, and
that's what I look forward to.
I used to go to St Bart's a lotin the winter.
Truthfully, once I got my housein the Hamptons, I don't take
vacations as much because I feellike I have the house but the
(19:48):
house is not a vacation you getout there.
You gotta get the groceries,you gotta water the this and
that and take care of things.
I'm in need of a nice.
I want to be somewhere wheresomebody brings me a pina colada
and just says what else can Ibring you?
You know, and, uh, what willyou have for dinner?
Brendan Drewniany (20:05):
what is like your ideal day in new york?
And if you're not necessarilyworking, like where would you go
to have lunch?
Where would you grab a coffee?
Could be your neighborhood,have a drink early dinner, like
what does that look for you?
Fern Mallis (20:17):
well, I live on the Upper East Side and I have a
nice apartment and I have alovely terrace that has a lot of
beautiful plants on it and italso has a nice big Harris Waltz
sign on it I love it.
I have one too and when I'm inthe city I like sitting out
there, weather permitting, andthis fall has been ridiculous in
(20:40):
new york.
The weather's just beengorgeous, so I mean I will hang
out there.
I have a fabulous little cafeon my corner on 68th and madison
, called bellamy which umlearned is a close at the end of
.
October after 15 years, becausethe landlord of the building is
empty and is trying to sell thebuilding, and so that's a little
(21:00):
bit of a heartbreak.
So I'm not sure where I'm goingto go for that chai latte on
the corner, to find anotherplace.
But you know, I like to justrelax and chill, read the papers
and you know, get the weekendpapers if I'm not in the country
.
There's a couple of restaurantsin my hood that I like going to
.
You know Bar Italia in LeCharleau, and you know I like
(21:24):
going to the Polo Bar.
I like Japanese food.
You know, there's a proposal inthe works.
Brendan Drewniany (21:30):
There might be a restaurant in the future
called Fern'ss very exciting sostay tuned about that absolutely
we're at a funding phase nowyou know, I mean you've
interviewed some incrediblepeople and would love to hear
more about kind of howtransformative that's been for
you.
I mean, you obviously arepersonally quite close with, I'm
sure, a lot of these people andalso sort of you know being at
(21:50):
at the Y 92nd Street Y um,you're a real you know, it's
obviously a fixture.
Yeah, how does it feel to sortof look back on all of these
fascinating people?
Fern Mallis (21:59):
well, the series fashion icons with Fern Malice
at 92 Y is has been totallytransformative and it's probably
one of the things I'm mostproud of in my life.
You know the tents were great.
They've come, come and gone,disappeared, and fashion week's
a mess now it's all over theplace.
You know, like you forget thatit was ever organized, although
(22:20):
everybody begs me to please comeback and do it and that's not
going to happen.
Yeah, but the Y series, youknow that's real content and so
far there's two books out of it,hopefully a third coming.
You know that's real contentand so far there's two books out
of it, hopefully a third coming, you know, and books are in the
library of Congress and theydid.
They did definitive interviewswith these iconic lives and
everybody from Calvin Klein andTom Ford and Mark Jacobs, andre
(22:45):
Leon Talley and DVF and VeerWang and Bill Cunningham, the
Valentino and Victoria Beckhamand the Missonis and DeSondra
Rhodes, and it goes on and onand on.
I just did Laura Roach, thestylist.
It was 700 people, over 700people screaming and loving and
(23:05):
clapping and laughing.
I love it.
They tell the story of thesepeople's lives.
I ask questions that dig deepand you know, you walk out of
there and you feel like I knowthis person.
I like them.
How did they do that?
I've always said that thedesigners are more than a name
on a label.
Who are you?
How did you build a business.
How did you start from nothing?
(23:27):
None of the people I'veinterviewed were given the keys
to the kingdom, dad's retiringyou know dad's retiring, you
take it over honey Right.
They all started from a dreamand a passion.
You know, even Leonard Lauder Iinterviewed and you know he
started with his mom in Corona,queens, I think, making formulas
in their kitchen and, you know,eventually packaging them up
(23:49):
and going to a counter at Saksand, you know, to the biggest
global beauty business, you know, in the world.
You know these people areremarkable to learn how they did
that and I love that about themand I love you know it's a
curiosity and it's sharing theirstories and it's a hugely
(24:10):
successful series going on 14years.
It's amazing.
And some 65 interviews.
Content is remarkable.
Brendan Drewniany (24:18):
Yeah.
Fern Mallis (24:19):
I'm very, very proud of it.
Brendan Drewniany (24:20):
You should be , and what would you say is just
a piece of advice for someonethat is a young entrepreneur who
wants to start something Likewhat is sort of like your golden
rule of success my golden ruleis to be nice.
Fern Mallis (24:33):
That's the first advice I give everybody.
No matter what you're going todo, be nice, because nobody
wants to work with somebodywho's as entitled or thinks
they're entitled, or as a divaor a pain in the ass.
You know you have to work withpeople and there's a lot of
talent out there.
You know everybody's competingwith talented people.
You want to make the choice tobe with people that are nice,
(24:55):
you know.
And then if you're starting upa new business, you know be
focused, be clear.
Don't try to do everything.
You can't just stay narrow.
You know, hire an attorney atthe very beginning of your
business.
You know, don't wait untilyou're in trouble and need to
hire somebody.
Get it all worked out first.
And also, it's financial, youknow.
(25:15):
I mean I don't think anybodyrealizes how much money you go
through to start a business,whether it's your friends and
family or a good financialinstitution or banks that you're
working with.
You know get the money.
And you know and learn that IfI had to do one thing over again
growing up, I mean I would havespent more time learning about
finances.
(25:36):
It's easy to ignore and you knowreading spreadsheets and I mean
I always said no, somebody elsewill do that, Let me be the
creative part.
Well, no, you know, you need toknow it and take responsibility
for it.
Brendan Drewniany (25:48):
I love that.
So, yeah, where are you off tonext?
Fern Mallis (25:50):
Actually for it.
I love that.
So, yeah, where are you off tonext?
Actually, this weekend I'm offto Florence.
Alabama and I've never beenthere, and it's Billy Reed's
20th anniversary.
Brendan Drewniany (25:57):
Fantastic.
Fern Mallis (26:05):
And he's having a shindig which is his big
celebration with music and foodand fashion and tours around the
city.
And you know, I have to sign upfor the Frank Lloyd Wright
house tour and you know, andlots of great food.
And Ioyd wright house tour andum, you know, and lots of great
food, and I'm going to do aninterview with billy to talk
about how he started thatbusiness and what it means, and
um, so that should be a fun trip.
Brendan Drewniany (26:20):
Yeah, wonderful I love that, fern.
Thank you so much for beingwith us and, uh, it's been an
absolute pleasure you've beenlistening to the pursuit of
feeling, a podcast by blacktomato.
Owen Vince (26:32):
If you've enjoyed this episode, then please hit
the subscribe button.
We've got a lot more episodeson the way and if you're feeling
inspired by what you've heardtoday, then visit blacktomatocom
.
We'll help you to travel whereyour heart is.
Thanks for listening.
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