Borshoff stepping down, Ware hired at UNC, Vito vs Forrest picks, NCAA rule changes, RAF | Ep. 8 - The Quad Pod

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Oh my goodness, big move Monday.Look out of way to end the
tournament. What's happening, people?
Welcome back to the quad pod sponsored by Adidas Wrestling
and Poseidon strength. Make sure you're using those
discount codes. Both are down below in the
comments section as well as all our names by the way.

(00:20):
So in case you're in the comments and you're wondering
who says stuff one in the 1st 30seconds our names pop up on the
screen, but in case you missed that they're also down below.
All our Twitter handles are are down below just in case.
So if if you're just signing on now, I'm Holmes.
Austin is on right now as well as Robbie and then Kevin is

(00:43):
going to be joining us late. If you're jumping on and you're
like wait a second, this is a tripod, not a quad pod.
The full pod will be in the mix here pretty soon.
Kevin just running a little late.
He's being a dad, so we, you know, we excuse those things, so
it's all good. Taking out little kids on a
soccer field, like yeah, kickingand screaming, That movie.

(01:04):
Yeah, I think he's he's going full Will Ferrell right now.
He's got. The you.
Know I was going to say in a full powder blue tiger suit, I'm
hopeful that he's he's fully rocking that.
But yeah, so there is that. So, but no, we do appreciate all
the comments, all the views, allall the people reaching out they

(01:25):
can. The contributions to last week's
conversation was great. Hopefully you guys continue to
contribute to everything that wetalked about.
I am not going to, I'm usually the one that is responding to
people, whether it be from my own or from Quadpot itself.
I'm not going to be an asshole in there.
I'm in there for conversation and to engage with you guys.

(01:48):
So if you treat us with respect,we're going to also treat you
with respect. The.
Golden World. It is, it is however we can, we
can asshole it up with, with thebest of them, right.
So, but we, we want, you know, good conversation.
I'm not going to insult you. There's no reason to call you an
idiot just 'cause you have a differing opinion than than me.

(02:10):
So that's not going to happen right.
We're unless it's, it's truly necessary.
I'm going to come back to you with some respect because you
know you have your own opinion. I may not agree with it or I
might agree with it. You might make a good point and
I'll concede that point too, right?
So, but I will point some thingsout in there here and there too.
But like I said, we appreciate everyone watching, listening,

(02:33):
whether it's on Spotify, whetherit's on YouTube, whether it's on
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So we appreciate you guys as well as it.
Like I said, our sponsors Poseidon Strength and Adidas
Wrestling, make sure you are using those discount codes.
Now to start off, you guys know we always do a weigh in.
We're going to keep them quick. Once again, just like we did
last week to get to all the topics we want to get to.

(02:54):
We're finally coming back aroundto some of the topics that we
wanted to get to a couple weeks ago.
The tea is not bubbling hot right now so there's no rumors
to get to, but I will. Say that.
It is on simmer right now, but Iwill say that if you did come to
hear about any other Penn State things, rumors or drama, we're
not even going to touch that right now because nothing,

(03:17):
everything is behind closed doors, rumor mill type stuff.
And unless it is out in the open, unless we're all kind of
talking about it, unless we're breaking news, right, If we're
breaking news, then we'll certainly do that, however.
The Penn State stuff, if you came to hear about that, we got
nothing for you at. Least nothing we will discuss
publicly, right? But with that, let's get to the

(03:37):
weigh in and, and, and I'm up first as usual.
And I I was really happy to be scrolling through Instagram
earlier today and see a clip of Jordan Burrows and David Carr at
a joint camp that they did. If you guys haven't watched
that, there's a I'll put a clip up right now as I'm talking
about it, not the full video. The full video is actually

(04:00):
pretty damn long, but it is fully worth it.
So I suggest you hop on that go over to Instagram.
It is a really cool video of them playing.
I mean, it's essentially the newage foot touch, right?
We got flags on your ankles instead of just like being able
to grab, you know, grab an ankleor or foot touch and it's really
cool. It's in front of, you know,
their entire camp and it it's really intense, but it's high

(04:23):
level and it was really awesome.Those kids were Privy to some of
the most high level stuff that they might ever see in person.
And it was done by a couple of world teamers, obviously a
multiple time world and Olympic champion, as well as David Carr,
who is going to look to kind of take up the mantle at 74 this
year. So I love seeing those guys work

(04:44):
together. They have some similar
components to their game and others that are that are very
different. So it's really cool.
And I believe it was it might have been like a father son camp
too, which was even better. So really cool thing going on
with Jordan Burrows. David Carr, Nate Carr senior was
there. I'm sure Jordan have had his
sons there as well. But yeah, really cool video.

(05:06):
Shout out to those guys giving back to the youth and and
putting out the the good vibes for for all the youth campers
that were involved and giving out high fives and, and, and
just seeing how high level that really was.
It was a kids game, but it was alot of fun to watch.
I think I probably had a smile on my face the entire time I was
watching. So it was pretty dope.
So that's it for me. I'm going to pass it over to

(05:28):
Robbie to to weigh. In and then Austin will jump in
after him. Well, I'm kind of building off
of that. David and and Jordan both are
phenomenal technicians, but theydo an awesome job with kids.
And there's there's some guys who who are out there, athletes
and coaches who are, who are just able to connect with kids
on a different level and, you know, teach them high level

(05:50):
technique, but have fun doing it.
So it's really fun to watch whenpeople are able to do that.
So kudos to them for for gettingthat done.
My quick shout out is a note of thanks to the Big 10 for being
the first ones to to kind of getsome schedules up.
This summer's been an anomaly with how much crazy shit has

(06:10):
been happening and and the fact that we have different things to
report on every week because that's not normally the case.
So it would be nice if we were to be able to get more schedules
out. Looking at you ACCI piece some
things together. There are some some Big 10 ACC
crossover matches coming up. That'll be fun.
I know of a few that I have to sit on until the team's release

(06:33):
it, but there's going to be somegreat stuff in ACC country this
year. So let's get those schedules out
so we can talk about it and and start start working on things
like that. Yeah.
And we're, we're going to when, when the season gets a little
bit closer, we're going to do a full show on some of our
favorite duels happening across conferences within conferences.

(06:56):
So we will do a full season. There will be a season preview.
We're going to reach out to somecoaches.
We're going to do some, some interviews with some coaches as
well across the different conferences.
So make sure you guys are sticking with us because as the
season comes closer, we'll have more and more content for you.
But something that we certainly will do is these early season
best matchups or best dual meets, things like that.

(07:18):
If there is some sort of contentthat you guys want from us as
well and want us to dig into, throw it in the comments, send
us an e-mail. Literally all of our information
is down below. But that is a great point.
We are starting to see some different schedules coming out,
different teams putting out someof the the Big 10 schedules and
and when we're going to see certain guys.

(07:39):
And my hope is that we see thesematchups like can we get back to
our top level guys wrestling each other in season and not
just waiting until the NCA tournament.
But yeah, we will have full breakdowns of all these big time
duels and big time matches as the season gets a lot closer.
And with that, I pass it over toAustin.

(08:01):
Yeah, I'll piggyback just a little bit off what Robbie was
saying. Penn State notorious for not
releasing rosters and schedules,but we did get a date out of
them. Drexel did.
Just released today that Penn State will be coming to
Philadelphia to wrestle at Drexel on December 5th.
I believe it's a 730 PM start time so.

(08:21):
That was a really cool graphic they put out with it too.
Yeah, cool. Yeah, cool graphic.
And you know, like I said, I tweeted out as well.
Drexel went to Penn State last year.
So Penn State just returned the favor.
And it's always a big deal when Penn State comes to these
programs just get, you know, full, full butts in the seats.
You know, a lot of people show up.
Penn State travels pretty well. They won't have to travel very

(08:44):
far. So that that's kind of cool to
see, you know, the a million time running champs, you know,
in in Philadelphia wrestling Drexel and they wrestled pen a
few years ago as well. So you know, they they've made
their rounds there. But also breaking news today at
the EIWA was coach Kyle Borshoffof Binghamton stepping down

(09:07):
after 10 years at the university, 8 years as head
coach, stepping away from the sport entirely, which is
starting. I don't want to become a thing
around the around the country, but we see more people doing
that lately just getting out of wrestling and going into his.
He'll be going joining his dad'sreal estate company, being a

(09:28):
realtor up there in upstate New York, going back to Pittsford,
NY. So, you know, Congrats to Coach
Borschhoff on a great, you know,a great career.
And I'm sure we'll be seeing himaround the IWA and NCA events as
a fan, which is always interesting for coaches to kind
of get out of wrestling and stepback and see it as a fan.

(09:50):
Definitely gives them a different perspective.
And definitely interested to seewhat he thinks about the sport
once he steps away for a year ortwo, just to see, you know, what
that looks like there. Yeah, and that, I mean, that
takes us literally right into our first topic of these
coaching changes, right The the Borschthof news.
I got a text, I won't say from who, but I got a text about

(10:10):
about that happening before it was announced.
Somebody had posted it, I think on like a forum or message board
or something like that. And I got a text about it asking
if I'd seen it. And I was like, I, this is the
first that I'm seeing it, right?And naturally, whenever I get
some news or somebody asked me aquestion or whatever else, I go

(10:32):
straight into let's dig into it mode.
And I hit these guys up in in our group and then I hit some
other wrestling groups and some other people that, you know, I
talked to to, to see if they've heard anything about it.
Most of the time it's either a, a stern yes or a holy shit.
I've, I haven't seen that this time.
I think it was a holy shit. I hadn't seen that from multiple

(10:53):
people because I think that it, it just kind of happened and was
kind of behind, I don't want to say behind the scenes, but it
just like happened. And then they released a
statement moments later, right? So it happened pretty quickly.
But it, it was surprising to seeanother head coach step down.

(11:17):
And I think, you know, somethingthat people don't realize as
they're on message boards typingfuriously about a decision that
a coach makes or, or, or on Twitter talking about, you know,
the all the nonsense is like howmuch time a lot of these guys

(11:37):
are putting in. And a lot of these guys are
dads, right? Like I just talked about the
father son camp that Burroughs and Carr just did.
A lot of these coaches are dads and are missing a ton of time
with their kids because it goes from in season to offseason

(11:57):
where there's like a small dead period, but they're still doing
camps and preparing for recruiting into recruiting
season, recruiting season then goes, you know, as as long as it
does. And then, you know, we're into
the season and and everything just kind of overlaps, right?
Like there really isn't. And then on top of that,
obviously there's freestyle season for a lot of these

(12:18):
coaches too. So, you know, it's funny,
there's so many people that I can remember, you know, back
when I first became a journalistcovering wrestling and they were
like, well, when's the offseason?
And I'm like, there really isn'tone.
It doesn't, it doesn't happen, right?
These guys are going all year round for the most part.
Their break tends to happen during the freestyle season when

(12:42):
if they don't make the team, they obviously, you know,
whether it be national team or World Team or Olympic team,
whatever it is, they're if they're not one of those guys,
they get a little bit of a break.
They can, you know, taper off a little bit, take some time, take
some vacation and stuff like that.
But for the most part, I mean, these coaches are always going,
these coaches are always on the road or always on the phone,
making phone calls to recruits trying to figure out this NILBS

(13:07):
that is going on right now and revshare like everything is
always changing. So, you know, shout out to
Borshov for doing something thatcan probably normalize his life,
right and, and allow him to be ahusband and a dad and, and watch
wrestling from afar and, you know, maybe even coach his kids
if he feels like it, right. So it was surprising though,

(13:30):
like it wasn't something that I think people were, were thinking
was, was going to be another jobthat was opened up.
But now it is. So you know, I, I know what your
guys reaction was when when I asked about it, but who do you
guys think is going to be on theradar for this job at Binghamton

(13:53):
in Austin? Since you cover the IWA, what
are your thoughts on it? I mean, yeah, we, we were kind
of talking in our chat about, you know, if this was a week or
two sooner, you know, Scott Green would be kind of top guy
on a on a short list there if hewas interested.
And Nickerson, too. And.
And Nickerson as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a
good point. I mean, both those guys, you

(14:14):
know, New York natives, just Coach Green was actually there
before, you know, so he has somesome time there.
So a lot of history there. And every time a new job comes
up, you're always thinking Callum Russell might be in the
mix, you know, not being too faraway right now at Cornell.
And Ramos, you know, he's again,always in the mix.
You know, I'm not sure if there's any interest there at

(14:34):
all. Might be still too new for him.
But, you know, that's a guy thatI think deserves a head coach
job. And I think Binghamton would be
a decent fit for him. And, you know, it's, I think I
think it's a good, it's, it's underrated right up there.
Binghamton, they got some good academics.
They're in a good conference in the IWA.
And you can kind of pull from anywhere, Pennsylvania, Jersey,

(14:56):
Ohio, obviously New York, the New England states up there.
So yeah, that that could be a sleeping giant up there.
If if the right coach gets in there and they get all the, all
the right, you know, financials,they need facilities, whatever
else that they're going to need there, it could be a big
opportunity for someone to step in and, and bring that up to
another level there. So if you look at the names that

(15:17):
have come through there, I mean,Pat Pop was there, you know,
Frank Beasley was there, like Scott Green was there.
You have you have a lot of guys who are are great D1 head
coaches who have, who have come through that program and have
left it in a good place. I mean, the only time I've spent
in Binghamton was a, a pit stop to go pee and get a Gatorade.

(15:39):
So I can't say much about the town itself, but the program is
in a good spot. I mean, they constantly have
have guys who are, they're all American caliber, right on the
cusp of it. So it's it's, it's in a good
place and you know, it could be a really good job for some of
these guys to jump into. Yeah, I agree with that.
I mean, the, the Scott Green of it all, like you said, he had,

(15:59):
he was there before, right? Like that's where he was at
before he went to Wyoming SEM. So him as well as Kelan Russell.
I think I would be very surprised if Kelan Russell
wasn't like one of those first calls with being a, a guy that
is in Ithaca right now at Cornell, right.
So, and then obviously we mentioned Tony Ramos and Tony

(16:21):
didn't take the the job at Northern Colorado because of the
fact that, you know, you'd have to move his family, right?
And and that's, that's really, that's a tough move to make from
North North Carolina to to Northern Colorado.
The letters stay the same, but it's a very different different

(16:42):
community for. For him, different shades of
blue. Yeah, different, different,
different shades of blue. The colors change, the letters
stay the same. But as we said before, like it
would be awesome for him to apply for for him to be in the
mix on that one as well. It just really depends on if he
is looking to to make that move.Right, I feel.

(17:02):
Like, it's going to be a very similar kind of situation,
though. Like, I mean, you take into
account things, everything's going on with his daughter as
well. You know, Binghamton is not
exactly, you know, central to a lot of things.
So the other consideration. Exactly.
And and I mean, the other wrinkle to this is the Campbell
position is still open. So, you know, we said like that

(17:26):
it's not the best circumstances.Scotty sentence does leave them
with a good chunk of change withfundraising that was announced
basically as he announced he wasstepping down.
But you you have to think that there there might be some sort
of competition between who's going to go where.

(17:48):
So it's certainly a wait and seething literally happened hours
ago today on Monday as we're recording this.
But yeah, I, I think and I thinkit could honestly be a, a good
position for for somebody, you know, brand new, right, a guy
that that we're probably not even thinking of.
But I think with how things justwent at Army and the names that

(18:11):
were involved at Army minus NateAngle, I don't think Nate Angle
is going to be looking at Binghamton, to be completely
honest. I think he's, I think Army was,
was one of those places that he would certainly look at.
But you know, I, I haven't, you know, I haven't asked him
honestly what he, how he feels about the Binghamton position

(18:34):
and if he'd be interested in it.But I think with him being at a
service Academy and being a service Academy guy, I think
that's why Army was so high up on the list and why he, he even
considered that. But outside of that, I think
that if he's going to make any moves it, it's not going to be
for Binghamton, right? I just did think of Donnie
Vincent as well, you know, but he's less than a year at this

(18:58):
point, maybe a little more than a year at the at the head coach
at Buffalo, so. He's.
Doing that, you know, moderate that that would be yeah, I I
could, I could see that decision.
But, you know, only being there a year at Buffalo trying to
rebuild that program, you know that that would be a lot to
leave, I think. Yeah, that, that was my thought

(19:18):
too. Like you've only been there for
a year. Why not try to continue to
establish what you have going on, right?
Like. He's got a lot of good things
going, too. Yeah, you've got guys buying
into to the things that that you're doing.
Why not keep that going, right? And he'd have to reuse his
Twitter name. So I mean, it's true it's not
going to work as well. The other coaching change that

(19:41):
that happened is is Tian Ware getting the Northern Colorado
job. And Robbie, I'm going to kick to
you because obviously we were thinking that it was going to be
somebody completely different and you know, now that it didn't
happen. I don't know if we want to say
the name or or what I think it'sout there honestly, but so you
can probably speak to it of likewhat happened.

(20:02):
If you have any Intel on why whoever we thought you know,
I'll and I'll let you say the name, but why that didn't kind
of come through. Honestly, I'm not not 100% sure
every indication I had was that Nick Bruschetta was was offered
the position and was in a was going to take it.
And then kind of out of nowhere we heard he turned it down.

(20:24):
I'd even my to my understanding,who's already starting to talk
to other people about coming on as assistant assistant coaches
there as well. So not sure what happened if
there's a breakdown in contract stuff or, you know, Maryland
came back with with a a counter offer for, you know, more money
from to stay as the associate head coach there.
But I mean, every indication wasthat.

(20:45):
And then, you know, kind of out of nowhere, Tian wasn't even on
the list of finalists that that anybody had seen, at least
certainly wasn't in in the conversations that I talked
heard about. And I mean, he's not a bad fit.
He's been to a lot of schools around that area.
He's, you know, certainly paid his dues as an assistant coach
and it could be a great head coach.

(21:05):
He just wasn't on the radar. So I think it kind of cut a lot
of people off guard. Yeah, certainly.
You know, I had, you know, we had heard who was in the mix and
we just spoke about Ramos turning it down as well.
You know, I know that and I don't know if I said this on the
last show, but I know that Coleman Scott got a got a call
for the for the position too. But he's, you know, he's got his

(21:28):
his new camp called the Farm andeverything else.
So. And I think that if Coleman does
come back to college wrestling to be a head coach, it would
have to, I think he has a short list of places that he would
want to go or, or really consider.
And I don't think Northern Colorado is one of them.
But yeah, as you said, like Tianwas not a guy that we were

(21:49):
expecting. But I am happy to see him get
this opportunity as a guy that has been around as long as he
has. I'll also say this and I, I
don't, I don't care if it pissesyou off or not.
But now we have 4 blackhead coaches in Division One
wrestling. And I'll, I'll, I'll be honest,

(22:11):
like it's awesome to see. Not that I take anything away
from whether a guy's black, white, whatever else, but it's
it's more so a having a diverse group of people part of
wrestling, right? Like, I think that is awesome,
right? People look up to Jordan
Burrows, people look up to DavidTaylor, right.
So there's a certainly a a, a good mix of people that we have

(22:32):
in wrestling. And I think having a mix of head
coaches is also awesome. And Tian would make, you know,
the the 4th black head coach, which is something that, you
know, was brought to my attention when it happened.
And I am, as I said, I've only met him a handful of times, but
I've always been impressed with him.
I think we've shook hands maybe once or twice.

(22:54):
But he's an impressive guy, right?
He's a multiple time NCAA champion and, you know,
represented us, the United States on the World Team.
So he's obviously, he obviously knows what he's doing, but I
don't know what kind of recruiter he is.
I'm not really sure about those things.
But I can say that his, you know, the most recent NCAA
champion from Northern Colorado seemed pretty happy about the

(23:19):
Hireright Alira is tweeted really excited about the
direction of the program is going in, which was awesome
because it it indicated that he's probably looking to stay
home in Greeley. But I would be very, you know, I
wouldn't be shocked if he was getting phone calls from some

(23:39):
other programs to come there and, and represent, you know, a
Cowboy RTC or a Hawkeye, you know, one, one of the one of
these other RTC's, even though he is coming off surgery and
he's pretty banged up right now and he's not in shape
whatsoever. I would be, you know, shocked if
they were not calling him. But judging by his post, he

(24:05):
seems to be pretty excited aboutthe direction that things are
going in. Sorry, Kevin's asking how to get
in so I'm trying to direct him. Yeah, the.
This is first one. He doesn't know where the link
is. The link should be on his

(24:25):
calendar. So I was just looking at the,
the Northern Colorado coaching list and, and currently the only
two people who are listed are Tion.
We just got the head coach job and Earl Hall, who's been there
for the last few years. So it'll be interesting to see,
you know, what T on does with that position, what kind of

(24:48):
staff he puts together. I mean, from every indication
I've heard and you know, talkingabout potential offers to the
other two coaches it was offeredto, there's there's certainly
some money being thrown at thosecoaches.
So there there may be some flexibility there.
Yeah, for sure. And we're we're welcoming Kevin

(25:08):
into the show who took off his his tiger, his his UNC blue
tiger suit as he was going full Will Ferrell on a couple of
kids. Kev, we're talking about Tian
Ware as the the UNC new UNC headcoach and that is Northern
Colorado. What do you what did you make of
it? And I think we it was literally

(25:30):
right after the show where we. Had talked.
About somebody that we had thought was going to get the job
and we signed off and got text messages sent to, I think it was
Robbie to you that Rosetta had turned it down, right.
So that's where we're at. Kev, what what did you think of
the new hire? What do you think is kind of the

(25:50):
outlook at Northern Colorado andwe, you know, we, we mentioned
Andrew Alirez seems to be sticking around as well.
Yeah, that's, that was the one thing I was going to say.
I I, he certainly appears to be sticking around just from tweets
and things that were out there. And obviously if you stuck
around for that last year when I'm sure he could have gone
anywhere anyway, like he seems to want to be there.

(26:12):
All indications are as such, right?
But as far as Tian goes, like, I'm pretty excited, You know, I
mean, I think it's easy to be like, oh, he's been bouncing
around all over the place. But it's like, I think some
coaches do that a little bit more than maybe we realize.
And and it could be beneficial. You know, you're working with a

(26:32):
lot of different people in a lotof different programs and you're
kind of seeing how how people dodifferent things, right?
Clearly, he's an incredibly accomplished collegiate
wrestler. He's made a couple world teams I
believe as well. So I mean, as far as credentials
and everything, they've got to be pretty stoked.
I mean, he's technically I thinkmore credentialed than both of
those than than Nickerson was. And obviously he did a great job

(26:55):
there. So and from what you've seen
too, I mean, what it was it Steven Buchanan, who is like,
you know, made some reference tocoming down there whatever like
he. He recruited him at Wyoming and
then brought him to Oklahoma. So right, right.
And so like that was the thing. It's like he's clearly
establishing good relationships with the guys that he's
coaching, which, you know, we know is certainly a huge part of

(27:16):
that. So I'm sure he'll come in with
some, some good, good things that he can bring from all the
programs that he's been with and, and, you know, help with
whatever fundraising they need to do.
And, and again, it seems like the athletic department has been
pretty aggressive with going after some, some pretty good
names. So credit to them.
Yeah, the the checkbook is certainly not light, right.

(27:37):
Like the the things that we're hearing about what type of money
they're they're throwing at guysto try and entice them to come
in. You know, Robbie, to your, to
your point, they have the money,I guess to kind of, I shouldn't
say throw around, but to play with right to, to bring in some
other technicians and coaches and, and, and bring in some

(28:00):
other guys to, to do some reallygood things.
So we'll certainly see how it pans out.
Here's a Here's a crazy thought though, with the just absurdity
of the the amount of money that was spent last year on
transfers. If Stephen Buchanan were to come
on staff, it would be a giant pay cut for him for what he made
last year to be an assistant coach.

(28:22):
That's funny. Yeah, that's probably how it's
going to be for a lot of these wrestlers that become coaches.
It's going to be a pay cut to stop.
Because sorry, I can't make the carpet of anymore.
That's wild. Clonch.
Is that a a Ben Wallace bobblehead?
It is a Ben Wallace. Yeah, I got a Ben Wallace
bobblehead. I've got my Cal State

(28:43):
Bakersfield. I don't know if anyone can see
this, but shout out to Ross Bendick.
I've got a little Lego shoot andhe, he's.
That's awesome. With this log that he's carrying
too. That's.
Pretty fantastic. So we can give a shout out to
Ross. Ross is awesome.
He he absolutely is. He does fantastic.

(29:03):
Nice guy. Every time I, I met him once at
Olympic trials, World Team Trials, one of the two Olympic
trials, one was up in at Penn State and like he came,
introduced himself. We talked for a bit and had like
presents for me. I was like, that's awesome.
I've never, I've never met him. Yeah, I've never met him.

(29:25):
He's awesome. That's pretty awesome.
I mean, I've. Been trying to get him into AC
ACC country for the last three years and he hasn't made the
trip yet. If if hopefully we continue to
to do well and things keep trending up and to the right and
we'll get some sort of Ross graphic treatment of of this
show. So we'll certainly see him
fingers crossed that that happens, right?

(29:45):
I'm going to suddenly put more raw stuff that I've got in the
background right. Just.
Just to entice him. Just.
To just to entice him a bit. So yeah, I mean coaching
changes, I think, you know, we'll certainly see who takes
the Binghamton position, who takes the Campbell position.
Tian, you know, getting his his shot at Northern Colorado.

(30:06):
And then Austin, I think you had, there were a couple other
assistant coaching positions, other places too, right?
Yeah, I was just, I was just referencing EIWAN Ivy's.
Drexel has an assistant coachingspot open.
Penn has an assistant coaching job open.
But Earl has a little list of open positions and there's some

(30:26):
pretty good ones on that on thatlist.
I mentioned Maryland has an assistant spot, Northern Iowa,
Oklahoma, Little Rock, George Mason, you know, there's a few
more in there. App State you know a lot of
these interesting schools that you know they're not big time
schools obviously, so you don't know what what the pay is and
you know what kind of benefits and things there are, but I

(30:48):
like. These damn good coaches to learn
under though. I know I like, I like these mid.
I was just going to say I like these kind of smaller mid tier
schools because you get a young wrestler in there that kind of
learns how the coaching aspect of it.
They're great at technique and they're great at wrestling and
they just keep kind of doing stepping stones from there,
which is always fun to see in myopinion.
Yeah. I think Gardner Webb's got a
spot open. Yeah, GA.

(31:10):
Spot. Yeah.
GA saw that, yeah. Well, there's still a lot of a
lot of spots to fill we'll keep our eye out for.
Nobody's hired me yet. Yeah.
I mean, I haven't. I haven't.
Gotten that? Call for for that head coaching
job, No NIL deals or anything else, but we're good.
We've got beside and trade. We've got DS wrestling.
We're all good on the sponsorships.

(31:30):
There we go with that. Let's let's switch to to some
wrestling. We we still have one World Team
spot up for grabs that will be wrestled a week from today as
we're we're filming this on on aMonday.
You you guys see this on a Tuesday and it's between Vito

(31:52):
and Jack's Forest and it was thedelayed wrestle law Vito put in
for the delay and we're going toget another Fargo wrestling
match happening, which is funny because Jax Forrest can
literally still wrestle in Fargo, so who knows.
Might as well, he's getting to be there.
I know maybe he enters, gets, gets a couple of really good

(32:14):
matches in to to kind of. Get the It's upset first round.
And makes a World Team, right? Yeah.
Losing 49 seed from Alaska. Yeah, right.
But we we have this one spot left.
And I mean, I think the the consensus, not consensus, but

(32:36):
the, the thought is that veto still might not be 100%.
We don't really know. Guys don't really just like put
out there when they're when, when they're when.
They're 75 today, guys. Right.
Like it doesn't, we don't reallyget those, those reports, which
honestly sucks, right? I wish that we got injury

(32:56):
reports. I wish that that was something
that that we got. That is definitely something
that a a mainstream sport such as basketball or football gets,
you know, on the college level that we do not get for
wrestling. But Veto Jacks far is going to
be a good wrestling match. Both guys very similar in build.

(33:16):
To be completely honest, I thinkVeto might be a little bit
scrappier and and probably a little bit more intense, but
that's that grown man strength for you, right?
But we'll see how healthy he is,right?
He hasn't wrestled since world'slast year.
He was supposed to wrestle at the Olympic trials of 57 was

(33:39):
like no, making 57 is way too much.
He's sat out since then. We've seen videos of him
wrestling with Anthony Knox where he looked very healthy and
that came out before he delayed the rest of law.
So people are like, wait a second, is he healthy or isn't
he what's really happening here?So we'll certainly see which
veto shows up, the healthy one or one that is still banged up

(34:03):
but but can still go. You know who who do we get here?
Right? But what are you guys make of
the matchup? Who do you think has the edge?
Kevin, since you're, you know you, you've joined us last, I'll
go to you. Who do you think has the edge in
this match up? And I guess what's your pick
too? Well, I first of all, I love the

(34:24):
idea that like, well, there's video of him wrestling.
Like how is he supposed to be training to wrestle?
Like what you just get on an elliptical and be like, I hope
I'm good by, you know, July. You carry logs, you just had a
shoot like a. Very.
Good point people made. A lot of people made a lot of
that video, mostly because he looked like he was 100% he was

(34:47):
going hard. I think, you know, we we've seen
him bounce back his his last year of college.
Obviously he had the crook him loss and and you know, when it
was time to go at NC double as he was ready and I'm you know, I
think so these guys that we're talking about here and we're
literally talking about a a world champion, right, like
they're different than us. And so I think that he's going

(35:08):
to be ready to go. And then I think if you add the
fact that he like is in the roomwith Yanni and Yanni just lost
to PJ Duke and he's like, bro, don't let that happen.
You know, like. You get both those to high
schoolers. Just go get this done for, for
both of us, right? So, and, and I'm kind of joking

(35:30):
about that, but I also kind of serious.
It's like, I, I can't speak to what happened to Yanni, but I'm
sure Yanni can speak to that andsay, hey, man, here's kind of
how how this happened to me. And I know that they're Jack
Forrest and PJ Duke are not the same person and they don't
wrestle the same style necessarily, but there's
overlapping things, You know, the Venn diagram of chaos is, is

(35:51):
overlapping enough to where I think that's, it's a relevant
thing to say. Ultimately, I think Vito gets it
done. I I think it's possible that it
could go 21, but I think it probably goes 2O.
Yeah, I feel like with these, you know, to just kind of speak
into that high school aspect of it, right?

(36:13):
I feel like these guys are like history is kind of repeating
itself, right? Like we especially with the guys
we're talking about, we're talking about Yanni and Vito, 2
guys who when, when they were inhigh school, we were like,
they're the next, those are the next guys.
And that class of guys that included Yanni Vito, Dayton Fix,

(36:34):
David Carr, I think was also in there Gable Steveson, right,
like all of those guys, you know, Spencer obviously part of
that as well, but Spencer did not compete as much as the rest
of these guys have over the lastcouple of years.
But history is certainly repeating itself.
However, like these guys are areyounger.
I mean, literally today is PJ Duke's birthday.

(36:55):
I think he's what 1819 today. So, but like history is, is like
repeating itself in terms of this next crop of young guys
that are coming to knock these guys off.
But they're they're doing it a little bit sooner because, you
know, Dayton Fix I think was oneof these guys that was wrestling

(37:15):
up sooner than the rest. But they also, you know, the
crop crop of guys I'm talking about didn't really make a
splash until they were in college.
We knew about them. You know, Dayton, like I said,
Dayton was, was probably one of the guys that was ahead of the
curve in that aspect, but that the whole kind of gambit of them

(37:37):
really arrived when they made itto college and they started
knocking off guys that were older than them.
So that's the thing for me, it'sjust like history is serving
certainly repeating itself. And that speaks to these RTCS
that that speaks to the development of these guys from
younger ages where they're able to be exposed to our higher

(37:58):
level guys, right. You know, in the weigh in I
talked about the clip and and Kevin, I don't know if you you
saw the clip of David Carr and and Jordan Burroughs kind of
doing like a sparring in front of their campers, but like those
young kids getting a chance campers not.
RV's. Yes, yeah, youth campers getting

(38:19):
a chance to. That's out for the fire pit
guys. Getting a Getting a chance to be
in front of the most high level guys, right like that in and of
itself is amazing. And it's it's really starting to
show as these guys like Jax Forrest and Bo Bassett.
I understand they're still in high school because they
reclassified a couple of times. However, they would still be in

(38:42):
the same boat as the guys that we talked about that came before
them, right? No matter what the the age, the
age is the same. The the class is not.
But when it comes to this matchup, man, I I think jacks
Forrest is going to he certainlyhas a ton to prove.

(39:03):
Regardless how you feel about Jacks Forrest being the next guy
and he's done. You know a ton already on the
level of these high level guys, right?
He was at world. The Olympic trials literally
took Gilman into some deep water.
Like had him pretty exhausted, right?
Like it's he's he certainly proved a lot, but this is that

(39:27):
next step for him to make a senior World Team.
And I think he comes out firing pretty hard to probably test
veto to see if he is 100%. Like if I'm him, that's the
first thing I do is I try to seeif you really are 100% if you
are healed and and go, you know,not not hard enough to tire
myself out, but certainly push you to see where you're at.

(39:49):
We haven't seen you wrestle in 8-9 months.
It's been a long time, so let's see what what is what is really
going on under the hood for for you Vito.
So with that said, I still will be taking Vito in this match up.
I think that he has a little bitmore of a deeper bag than Jack's
forest and that will certainly show.

(40:09):
So I'm going to take video Vito.I think he does it two matches
to none. So you know, that's where my
head is at on that. Austin, what are your thoughts
on? The veto versus Jack Suarez
match, who has the edge and whatdo you think of?
I know we've talked about the youth movement, but like is this

(40:31):
kind of the second coming of theclass that we're seeing now
become the vets? Well, yeah, I mean, like you
guys were saying, how healthy isVeto?
That's going to be a big, a big factor, right?
If he's 100%, you know, this is you can't, it's hard to see Veto
losing to for to forest when he's 100% right.

(40:52):
So if he if he's 90%, you know, I I think he's still might even
have the edge there just being in this position before this is
his spot. I just think there's a chip on
his shoulder, you know, like, hey, I'm the top dog here.
This high school kid isn't goingto beat me.
You know, kind of what Claunch'spoint was saying.
But yeah, it it's it's going to be interesting to see Forrest.

(41:15):
He was so close last time, right, Almost put like you, like
you mentioned Holmes, almost be Gilman kind of finds himself in
here again with another, you know, NCA legend, champion Vito
and world champ previously. So it it's going to be a battle
for him. But I I think it's going to be
Vito 2 to 0, assuming that he's close, pretty damn close to

(41:38):
healthy because as we've seen itbefore, if he's not healthy, you
know he'll drop a match or two like we saw with Crookham.
But when it's time to shine, youknow, he, he does his damn thing
and he shows up. So I, I, I kind of expect that
veto here next week. Yeah, Robbie, your thoughts?
That same thing I mean, I think I'd take video down to 95 ninety

(42:02):
85%. He's just so good and he's so
talented and, and so experiencedthat it's, it's hard to pick
against him. But that's the exact same thing
we said again about Yanni. So I mean, I, I feel pretty
confident in Vito. I think he's, he's seasoned and,
and has the edge there. But like everybody said, it's

(42:24):
all going to come down to whether he is actually healthy
or not. And we're not going to know that
until they blow the whistle. I think there's a certain type
of quickness too to Vito that's hard to train for.
You know, if you're if you're jacks, you have to I feel like
you have to kind of feel that see that in in real time.
You can watch the video you want, but to prepare for that
because it it's something else, right?
You guys have been on the mat, so I think if Vito just still

(42:47):
has that quick quickness to him and you can still get to a leg
and finish, I think he is going to be hard to beat obviously.
So lanky, too. Yeah, his reach is crazy, Yeah.
I've I've just picturing like anNCAA Football, like when it you
know, it's be like, oh, your left tackles hurt.
His risk of getting injured is 80%.
Do you want to send him back in?And then it's like, oh, his

(43:10):
awareness is a 99, he's veto, his quickness is 87, but his
health is his health is at an 87.
What do you want to do, Send himout there?
Let's fill the man, actually delay it, and then we'll send
him out. Yeah, it's, it's gonna be an
interesting match. I think no matter what.
I, I, I, I'm always very intrigued by Jax Farce 'cause he

(43:32):
just seems to show up against these higher level guys and, and
he pushes them. Well, you know, when, when lose
or draw, he, he pushes him right.
So I, I'm excited for the match.I think it's going to be, you
know, a good series. And who knows?
I mean, if Jack Fors, if Jax Fors loses, he can enter Fargo
and wrestle the rest of the tournament if he feels like it.

(43:55):
But we'll see. Only in Greco though.
Only in Greco, Yeah, He. He doesn't need to, doesn't need
to do freestyle. All right, let's get to a topic
that we've been like literally kicking down the road for the
last couple of weeks and that's these NCAA rule changes.

(44:15):
And I know we're we're pretty far out and when the season
comes back around, like I said, we're going to do some preview
stuff. So we'll probably come back to
this when we're, we're a little bit closer to the season when
it's a little bit more relevant as a, as a refresher.
But they, they changed the mat side review and it was certainly

(44:37):
necessary. And I think I, I, I noted it
last year after I got back from the journeyman event in
Nashville with how Matt side review was going on and how they
did it and, and how they made sure that they had third party
review. And this is what, you know, the
Matt side review is going to entail.

(44:58):
And I'll, I'll just outright read this.
It says third party reviewers will be allowed to consult with
the referee about pertinent information on the coach's video
review challenge. Previously, third party
reviewers looked at the sequencebeing challenged without any
consultation from the Matt referee.
So you know, it it when I was inNashville and I had a chance to

(45:21):
kind of see how this worked close up, it worked very well.
Right? The third party reviewer, if it
was a referee's challenge, the referee was going to on the mat,
was going to go over, take a look and determine what it was.
If it was a coach's challenge, it was a third party review.
So a referee that isn't even on the mat would come over and the

(45:44):
referees that are on the mat would just walk away.
They wouldn't even consult rightuntil after the ruling happened
and it was announced. So none of that would even
happen. But now they will allow for the
referee to consult the third party referee to consult and

(46:05):
come over and say, hey, what didyou have here, right?
Is this, you know what, what wasthe call on the mat?
So I know what I'm looking out for.
A part of me likes that. But then the other part of me is
like, I'm not really a fan. And the reason I'm not a fan is
because something that we said before when it came to 3rd party

(46:27):
review, I think when we first got it, was referees are
friends. And a lot of times your friend
makes a call, you want to stick with him, right?
And so if you're able to now have a conversation and say,
hey, what was your call on the mat?

(46:47):
Was it a takedown or wasn't it atakedown?
And the referee on the mats, like I had that it was 3 and now
he's going to look at it from a lens of, OK, well, he thought it
was 3. Let's see where I can see that
it's three as well. So that's the thing that that
worries me about them being ableto consult on, on a third party

(47:08):
review. I would like to keep it separate
where they don't speak at all. So that it isn't, I mean, it's
still, they're still going to bepotentially, I should say some
level of bias there, right? Because as I said, these
referees, most of them, they, they all know each other,
especially these tournaments, They're all together.
So there's still potential to besome level of bias there.

(47:29):
So that's what I would like to be kind of kept separately from
the third party, the, the mat side review.
And that's just my thought. I, I, I don't, I don't like it,
right. I wish that third party review
was still completely separate from the coach, from the
referee's challenge of the referee taking a look at it, a

(47:49):
closer look, slowing it down, making sure that he got the call
right or wrong or whatever else,instead of consulting and saying
this is what I had when it's a coach's challenge.
Kevin, what are your thoughts onspecifically this change with
third party Review? Well, my first thought is you
must have nicer friends than I have 'cause my friends if they
were like. Reviewing my call.

(48:11):
They'd be like quaunch, you idiot.
You just not see this foot out of bounds or whatever, you know,
so I don't know, I think I thinkit could be subjective both
ways, right? I mean, I, I think if we're
gonna just to talk to your pointabout, you know, these referees
know each other, I certainly think that there can be an
element of that right Where but I also think that context is

(48:31):
key. And I also think it's important
to point out that just knowing someone doesn't mean that you
like them, and therefore. Yeah, I know.
Still gonna? Yeah.
All right. Yeah, we, we, we hang out once a
week. Doesn't mean we like each other.
I mean, let's let's go wrestlingmedia for a second, right?
There are varying degrees throughout this universe that we

(48:53):
operate in of people that we like more and people we like
less. And that's not to say that I am.
I'm gonna name anybody, but I will say that we all know I've.
Got a tiered list? Yeah, yeah, right.
We it's a pyramid. We're, we're near the top, I
like to think. But no, ultimately at the end of
the day, I think context is key when making some of these calls,

(49:16):
right? And I think that even with the
video review, you're going to belimited to a, an angle.
And so if you can say, you know,hey, if, if, if we're all in
agreement that that the goal is to get this call right.
What I'm seeing at this angle isthis, and it makes me want to
call this. Did you have a view from your
position on what, what I'm missing here?

(49:36):
And that I think would be very, very helpful in trying to get
the correct call. If, if, if everybody's on board
with that being the the end goal, I'm in for it.
And hopefully it makes it potentially faster, right?
Otherwise you got a third party person just rewinding it, going
through it again, rewinding it, going through it again, being
like, I don't have the angle, notakedown, you know?

(49:57):
Yeah. The the other element that I
will add to that, excuse me, addto that is if the the other
wrinkle to this is if there is it says coaches will also retain
their challenge if the action being questioned is not in the
frame of the video or if. It's obstructed.
Or if it's obstructed right so previously.

(50:19):
How's your challenge? That's crazy.
Sorry the assistant rep's ass was in the way I couldn't see.
Exactly right. Like the amount of times that,
you know, as a commentator, I'vetold referees, hey, watch the
camera behind you and they honestly don't really care a lot
of times because they're like, Ihave to be in position.
It's like, yes, you can still bein position one or two steps to
the left or the right of the camera.

(50:41):
Like no one is watching to see your ass on camera.
Sorry, not happening. So, but that is something that
that they that they did throw into that where they will get
the challenge back because as itstands now or or previously,
you're losing a brick. If the cameraman is out to lunch
and nobody's watching, you're just screwed, right?

(51:03):
So that is it. That is certainly a good wrinkle
of like, let's see how much human error we can take out of
this for sure. Robbie, your thoughts on the
rule? I feel like it it really takes
away the third party aspect if that third party is talking to
the 1st and 2nd party, right? It's not no longer objective and

(51:25):
and separated if you're going down and talking to the other
officials about what they saw. The whole point of third party
review is to have somebody who'sdisconnected and unbiased to
look at a situation and say, this is how the rules
interpreted here. And you're not going to have
Dean Blandino coming down onto the field talking to, you know,

(51:45):
Ed Hockeyley to get the call right.
You took you look at it from thebooth and and you call what you
see. And I think that's, that's what
third party review should be. My other concern with it would
be that it's already a stupidly long process as it is.
Now we're adding in time for them to come have a pow wow and,

(52:05):
and chat about it. Like, let's let's speed these
things up and not slow them down.
So that those those would be my two big concerns with it.
I mean, ultimately the goal should be getting the call
right? But it often doesn't feel like
that's the case. Yeah, I'll send your thoughts.
Nay, I, I go back and forth on it too.

(52:26):
I, I agree with what Holmes was saying like, hey, these guys are
friends, they're going to support each other and hey, if
this is the call you saw, I'll, I'll approve it.
I, I agree, but pardon me, wantsto have faith that they want to
get the call right. And, you know, question the ref
like, hey, did you see it? I can't see this angle.
Did you, how did you score this or what was the scenario leading

(52:46):
up to this? How do they get in this
position? You know, there's certain things
that if you had the full context, you would think the
right calls made, but is that going to happen all the time?
Probably not right. But I, I, I think we did let it
play out and see how it works too.
You know, it's it was just recently passed.
And the one that I would love tosee is if coaches are kind of

(53:09):
pressuring refs into reviewing it, that should be a challenge
on the coaches. And we see it too many times
that we talked about it all the time.
It's coach A is hounding the ref.
Hey, look at that, look at that.Are you sure?
Are you sure? And the refs like, Oh yeah, I'll
challenge it, Sure. It's like, no, that should be a
coach issue. Yeah, yeah, there too many times
referees are like that. This is this one's on me, this

(53:30):
one's on me. Like it's not picking up the
tab. All right?
There's no reason for you to pick up the tab on this.
And it's there that happens to the big schools a lot more than
the little ones. Yeah, it does.
It certainly does. So yeah, it it just doesn't.
It doesn't make sense. If they're asking you if they're
hounding you on a call. Some of the other rules in here

(53:55):
let. Me see one more one more thing
in support of officials, which is not something that I say
often lucky to have some of the best NCAA officials in the
country are are from Virginia and I've known them for a long
time. Mike McCormick is you know, the
tip top of of of NCAA officiating.
Jr. Johnson is, is also a damn good

(54:16):
official funny dude too. But I've heard both of them like
be direct and, and give, you know, negative feedback to other
officials and tell them what they need to do differently.
So I know that there's, there's a level of of, you know, respect
between peers, but they also want to make sure things, things
are done correctly. So I think we see that the peer

(54:41):
issue more with younger officials, I think than than
older, more experienced officials.
So I think that that plays a role in it as well.
Yeah, accountability is key. Now, I will say this, they are
eliminating some of these thingsfor referees as well.
One of the things that they're eliminating is the interlocking
fingers penalty. And it literally says in here,

(55:02):
it says other rules changed, it says eliminating the
interlocking fingers penalty because it is virtually
impossible for referees to determine who created the
violation. Yes, absolutely correct.
And it is A and I honestly, I don't remember when that really
became a thing like finger fightlike.
Years ago. It it was just like super.

(55:22):
Awkward. I don't know.
I I don't. Blame the Russians.
Yeah, for the most part, they'reeasy to easy to blame.
The other rules are no longer requiring the referee to say set
from the three starting positions, stopping the riding
time when the offensive wrestlerin rear standing position is
going to be called for stalling.Establishing a protocol to
request a review of flagrant misconduct penalties.

(55:47):
So there's like a 48 hour reviewand things that are in there.
Penalizing wrestlers for unsportsmanlike conduct for
throwing, tossing, spiking or sliding any piece of equipment
before, during or after the match.
Yeah, that's dumb. That's really stupid.
Like I take off my headgear, I slide it to my, I slide it to my

(56:09):
coach. Nobody should be penalized for
that. They they shouldn't.
They really, really, truly shouldn't.
But we're the only we're the only sport that takes away
points instead. But I don't know the last one
here. And I think Rock Heights going
to be pretty up in arms about this last one because he is a

(56:31):
stickler. He's a rule book stickler with
tons of photos from the rule book.
When I work with Brock, it was always super fun because if I
had a question on the rule book,the man damn near has a thing
memorized. But this last one is something
that we've seen. It's a Matt return we've seen.
And I want to say it's probably become more popular in the last

(56:52):
couple of years. Where more and more people are
like, that's illegal, that's notillegal, that's illegal, that's
not illegal. With leaving your feet, but it's
eliminating the mat return from the broomstick position when the
offensive wrestler leaves both feet and makes contact with the
back of the defensive wrestlers legs in the broomstick position
from being an illegal hold. So that is no longer illegal.

(57:13):
So they're basically pulling theobjectivity.
Out of it, right of when is thisillegal?
When to not? Excuse me, Subjectivity.
Out of it. I think I got the right.
When is it illegal? When is it not right?
Did he leave his feet or didn't he?
So by just saying this is a legal MAT return from now on,

(57:34):
we're able to just proceed as usual.
Yeah, fuck it, who needs Acls anyway?
I was just. Going to say you could tear
someone's ACL but you can't takeoff your headgear.
Yeah. That's I was going to give it to
you guys and say which one of these these rules do you want to
point out the most? But it seems like the last one
is the one that you guys are themost pissed off about.

(57:55):
Kevin, what are your thoughts? Well, I have I if someone
broomsticks you and you tear your ACL and then you're mad and
you throw your headgear, do you get penalized a point for that?
Double. You get a triple stamp.
The double stamp. And.
You. And you lose and you lose the
match because you probably have to injury default.
Oh, that's right. Yep.

(58:16):
Now, yeah. So 77 point swing.
Bad, bad situation there. No, I, I did want to comment on
the writing time 1 real quick and I, I think I'd spoken with
my buddy Tommy from bloodround Shout out to him.
He's done some NCAA officiating And you know, to, to your point,
Robbie, you know, these guys do talk about it a lot and take it
very seriously. I know they, they watch a lot of

(58:38):
video. They, it's, it's a, it's very
much from what I can tell from the outside on the inside done
very, very well. And there's a lot of pride and,
and like integrity with it. So.
Very good, except for one personand he knows who he is.
Fuck that guy. The writing time piece is going

(58:58):
to be dangerous too, because you're, you're just asking more
people that are table help. And you know, thanks for doing
your table help, like we really need good table help.
But now you're asking more, a lot more from them, right?
Locked hands or was he holding the wrist?
I don't. Understand what that rule even
means, to be honest with you either.

(59:19):
So, so it's like if they're, if they're just stalling out on top
and like they're on their feet and not trying to return.
Now, if they're imminently goingto be called for stalling, they
stop writing time before they call stalling, rather than as
they call stalling. Yeah, so that's that's the point
I don't under like what's the time frame you get to his feet?
How long do you have until? It's.

(59:39):
Probably still A5 set. It's probably still a 55 count,
right? Like like when he gets to four
or when he gets to 5, you stop riding time and then the
stalling probably comes. I mean, I think we have to
probably. See it in a second.
Maybe 2 seconds like. Yeah, maybe.
Like we're going to add a lot more confusion for a very small

(01:00:00):
window of circumstance. And that's where I'm confused
too because was there ever a time limit to Matt return
someone? I thought it was just you need
to make attempts. There, well, there always there
there was, there was that 5 count up on his feet though,
too. I remember the, the five count
being on their feet. But like, then I mean, as

(01:00:21):
anybody would say, you give a guy a set of rules, they're
going to figure out how to game them.
Then they started to game them where it was like he's got to
make an attempt. And then every, you know, every
guy in rear standing was gettingthe damn Oscar for making it
look like he was trying to attempt he.
Was. Running him out of bounds,
right? And running him out of bounds
or, you know, you know, kind of gritting the teeth and giving a,

(01:00:43):
a good like tug at the waist andlike, like all these things,
right? Like they just like.
Made it look. Good.
So I, I feel like they're tryingto, they're trying to penalize
the acting and the theatrics of it, but what they're potentially
going to do is make it more complicated, right where now you
have table help. That's like, OK, wait, I have to

(01:01:05):
stop the riding time and hit himfor stalling.
And now we're back down on the mat like.
Because if you think about it, if if a guy gets hit, if a guy
is rear standing, he gets hit for stalling, the riding time
stops, then he returns him because they're not stopping the
match, they're stopping the riding time.
So then he returns him. What do you do?

(01:01:28):
You have to restart the riding time, right?
So like, it's going to be kind of pointless to stop the riding
time if one second later he hitsa mat return and gets this guy
back. Down to the mat, so I think
it's. Going to that stalling call is a
is a stoppage. It it doesn't say, at least in
here. We'll have to do some more
digging to to find out, but if. It it it.

(01:01:49):
Only says stoppage of riding time, doesn't say stoppage of
the match. So that's the part where I'm
wondering, I guess, what the hell is going to happen here?
But we'll have to see it in action, Kevin.
Well, the good news is everybody's just going to be
bringing them down with broomsticks now, so it really
shouldn't come into play all that often.
Everyone's just going to be destroying their legs and and

(01:02:12):
it'll. Work out for us all.
What happens if somebody's headgear flies off out of their
own control after they get broomsticked?
What if they land so hard at their head?
Just flies off. If you take your opponent's
headgear off and throw it, it's their headgear so they lose a
point. Should have had that trapped on
better. Yeah, there it's, it's going to

(01:02:33):
again, we'll, we'll, we'll do some more research.
We'll dig into these a bit more than what we already have, but
we've been trying to get to themfor a while.
Just at least speak to what, what we have out there before
really putting in, you know, a ton of of thought into it.
But yeah, there's there's new rule changes again.

(01:02:54):
We'll come back to it when the season comes back around, when
the season comes back around andwe're getting a little closer to
competition to give, you know, abit of a refresher for anybody
that listens and watches our stupidity.
We'll get a little technical with that.
But let's end the rules talk. Let's get back to some wrestling
talk and let's talk RAF. We haven't even really spoken

(01:03:16):
about RAF on the show very much.So First things first.
Austin and and the rest of you, but Austin first, what, what are
your thoughts on RAF? Is it, you know, we've seen a
number of professional wrestlingleagues in our lifetime.
Does this one have the legs to go the distance?

(01:03:37):
And how, how do you see that happening?
How do you see these things playing out right?
Like that's kind of the the thing that I want us to speak to
is like, do we see this being successful?
And how do we see it playing outthat it is a success?
Well, I think we all can admit that we're hopeful, right?

(01:03:59):
We we want this to, we want thisto work or there's ones in the
past where it's. None of us are nomad.
Well, yeah. Well, that's true, you know.
So many ways. And so, yeah, there's.
There's a lot of things you could say there.
I mean, yeah, I you have currentWorld Team members that that's a
good sign Guys are still involved in the sport actively.
You got guys that have been legends in the sport, kind of

(01:04:22):
went away, maybe to MMA or some other route.
Like, you know, a look at DarrenCaldwell is in the first card.
I mean, that's great. He's known for knocking off
Metcalf in one of the most classic matches of all time,
right? So I think just some of that,
maybe nostalgia and maybe some MMA fans will kind of merge into
this as well, along with currentwrestling fans who are always
looking for more events, you know, So again, hopeful.

(01:04:47):
I'm positive about it. I think this first one, like
Willie mentioned on on his podcast today, might be a little
bit of a learning curve with this first one because like,
like he was saying, they don't really release rules yet.
Like what's the format? You know, there's a lot of
questions that aren't really answered yet, but I think all
that will come in in the build up leading up to this first
event. Yeah, still a lot more that

(01:05:09):
needs to come, not just for the card but for RAF in general.
Robbie your your thoughts on? RAF Is it sustainable?
Can can this become truly a thing for us?
I hope so. My concern is there's going to
have to be a lot of money lost initially before anybody starts

(01:05:32):
seeing a return on this. Just just being realistic about
it. I mean, you're going to be
dependent on ticket sales, and I'm assuming pay-per-view buys
some somewhere down the line. So you have to have people who
are appealing to enough that that people want to pay to watch
it. And they're certainly throwing

(01:05:53):
some money around 'cause they'regetting some big names.
But from what it seems, they're aware of that, that it's going
to have to be a long haul to in order to be successful.
But it's going to take multiple events and they're going to have
to put a lot of money up front to make this happen.

(01:06:15):
I don't mean looking at the first card.
I think the women's matches are the most intriguing, to be quite
honest. I heard about a couple of these
matchups, excuse me, before theywere released.
And the one that stood out to mewas Lance Palmer.
I mean, what are what are we doing here?
Lance hasn't been on a wrestlingmat in. 14 years.

(01:06:38):
Looking at the graphic, does anybody else see the resemblance
between Austin Gomez and Lance Palmer?
Or am I crazy? I could see it.
The head shape is is certainly there like.
Round. Like they're like they're two
eyes. Mouth.
What I mean they see eyebrows though.
They certainly, they certainly have like a, a similar like

(01:07:01):
build. So like just looking at it, I'm
like, wow, this guy's kind of look alike.
I'd like to see them fight. I think that would be a good
fight to be honest. Probably.
But I don't know, I, I, I see what they're trying to do with
like bringing some, some guys like Gary and Lance back.
But you know, how, how much of Adraw is that going to be?

(01:07:23):
And is it really going to draw people across promotionally from
MMA to watch these guys do a sport that they didn't watch
them do in the 1st place, right.So that's got to be, you know,
where your rule set comes in and, and how things are going to
work. But we don't even know that yet.
So we, we need, we need them to be more open about how things
are actually going to function and to, to really make a, a

(01:07:46):
good, you know what's, I don't even know the word I'm looking
for to really understand what's going to happen.
Yeah. I'm tired.
It's been a long weekend can. I have your thoughts.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm pumped. I mean, obviously it's, it's
real, it's American and it's freestyle wrestling, you know,

(01:08:07):
let's go. But no, I mean, like I didn't
want to see on Darien Caldwell because yeah, he had that match
with with Metcalf in the NCAA finals.
He had pinned him in the spladdle I think a couple years
before that too. So he's got two wins over him.
He also there was a match, Speaking of Lance Palmer, where
he just beat the shit out of himand pinned him in like 45

(01:08:29):
seconds in the finals. Some tournament with a cradle.
It. Was so wild to watch because.
When he was on his run, fucking Caldwell was.
That's amazing. Dude, yeah.
So I'm happy to see him come back, man.
I mean, he's he's somebody I've wanted to have on the pod for a
long time. And I.
Super nice guy, yeah, Every timeI talk to him, he's been great.

(01:08:50):
I believe it. So no, it's, I'm, I'm excited.
I think it's going to be super fun.
It's in Cleveland, right? It is in Cleveland.
Nothing good happens in Cleveland.
I got to look dude, I had so much fun in Cleveland at NCAA's.
I think I, I might have made this joke here before, so if I
did, I apologize, but I'm prettysure I still have like 50 bucks
in the touch tunes at the TiltedKilt.

(01:09:12):
So next time I go back, I'm going to have some some some
good tunes we'll be putting on. What are you?
Doing at the tilted kilt. That's what I want to know.
I was drinking beer and talking to Jason Mester.
There you go. Yeah, I'm.
Sure, that's why. I'm sure that's why you were at
the tilted. Kilt, that's why.

(01:09:32):
No, I I am. I am, I am very optimistic about
this, right? You know, seeing James Green and
Austin O'Connor also on this card.
So the card is Woods, Caldwell, Blades, Arriaga, Gomez Palmer,
Aaron Brooks and Hayden Zilmer in the Unlimited division, by

(01:09:53):
the way. Green and O'Connor at 1:55.
That's that's just really bringsthat joke too, too easy.
I let it go. I let it.
I let it go. I let just let it go.
Now we know the reason. Yeah, and then Hildebrandt and
Hernandez. So there's there's some good
matches in here. And here's the thing.

(01:10:15):
The other card is the October 30th card.
Which one is is my birthday, which is honestly really cool if
I get to watch some wrestling onmy birthday, but that's a.
Jacks, we don't match up my birthday.
That's there you go. That's the one that when I
talked to Aaron Brooks, he was more optimistic about being on

(01:10:36):
was the October 30th card that he mentioned mostly because he
wasn't sure about the matchups that would happen for the August
card. So we'll certainly see if all of
these matchups come to fruition,if any of them do.
I know Willie mentioned that there's like 75% of the matchups

(01:10:56):
aren't even announced yet, as well as the scoring and in the
rules and and everything else. But I mean like I said, I want
this to. Work.
I want us to have some sort of like sustainable.
Wrestling league that we can watch and guys can go into with

(01:11:20):
that being said, lately we have we have multiple leagues kind of
popping up right and I I actually talked to didn't
interview with the the one of the owners from claw last year
and he reached out to me so I might do another one.

(01:11:40):
I know they have AI think they're what is it they're.
Their. Draft is is coming up or
something like that, so I might reach out to him and and kind of
talk about how they're. Talking.
About and and everything else yeah, so we'll certainly see it
is something that I'm intrigued about.
I feel like and in you know, in in another wrestling chat, we

(01:12:03):
were talking about just like ideas of making things
sustainable, right And the thought that came to mind was
one draft a draft, make things makes things kind of kind of
Fair, right where guys enter andyou can pick out the guys that
you want and draft guys and, youknow, make it make it really a
thing. But the other thing that came to

(01:12:25):
mind was the big money guys thatwe have in wrestling each
creating their own teams right. So you've got, you know, you've
got Novo, let's say you've got, you know, Fretwell with
businesses and you know, you've got the the different, you know,
Milwaukee tools that that's around as well, right.

(01:12:47):
You've got these different businesses and these.
Different businesses. Yeah, right.
So like you allow these guys to go and recruit guys and sign
guys, you know, you put a salarycap on it and you know you you
kind of make it like the NFL, right?
And cards consist of you either have these dual mate cards or
you have these All Star cards orwhatever else, right and that

(01:13:10):
way you're you're representing your team.
So you know the call away. I liked it.
They're they're putting these guys on teams and they're not
just trying to put together these All Star cards and just
have a lot of guys wrestling independently.
But as I said, I hope that RAF works right.
I want to see it do well. I want to, I want us to have

(01:13:31):
something sustainable that we can watch.
And right now, you know, we obviously have to wait until we,
we have the, you know, World Team trials and, and the US Open
and everything else to get freestyle wrestling.
So if it's something that can goon during the season, I'm all
for it. I'm hopeful that that can

(01:13:52):
happen. But as of right now, it's just
the hope and a wish and a prayerof like, you know what, what are
we going to get? And, you know, talked about
making wishes on the last show, you know, you know, see which
hand fills up quicker. So we'll certainly see.
I mean, I think real pro wrestling had it right and it

(01:14:12):
was just it, it was before its time.
I think a revival of that of that system would be kind of a
mix of what we're looking for, right?
We have the established teams. I think where they went wrong
one was with with their marketing and being tied to a, a
cable TV channel. But that's, I mean, we're, we're
past that point in, in, in time right now.

(01:14:36):
But like they had All Star teamseffectively, they had set
weights. They had teams that were
generally comprised of people from the area that they
represented, like the Iowa team,Oklahoma team.
I have all the the team posters framed, which is pretty sweet.
But I think I mean, aside from like the weird mat and like the

(01:14:57):
blended rule set, like if we if we get rid of that and we just
have a folk style rule set or just a freestyle rule set like
that, that's that's a good way to go about it.
But you got to have the buy in from enough people to make it
legitimate. And it would be something where
you'd have to start with probably four or five, you know,
four or six teams and then work up from there and have expansion

(01:15:18):
teams and things like that. But I think, you know, kind of
looking back on it with that lens, you know, it's 15, 18
years ago now, something like that.
I, I mean, I think it was, it was a, a great idea and the
implementation was there. It just wasn't the right time
for it, I think. Somebody somebody posted a a
Schwab Bono clip the other day. Oh yeah, I'm.

(01:15:38):
Fucking from real profession. Put it on him.
That's. All and and that was that was a
that was a hell of a hell of a like you could see like that was
that was good wrestling, right, like it was really good.
So if we can get back to that. But that was like that was like
some gladiator shit, like they were compression shorts and
going at it like that was some stuff that you saw in the

(01:15:59):
wrestling room, right. So hopefully we can we can get
back to that. But.
Even that way, they they played on a rival race like the Schwab
Bono that that that's long running and that, you know,
knowing that and and marketing, that was exactly what we need to
do fucking Lance Palmer and Austin Gomez.
If if we're going to have Schwaband Bomo rematch.

(01:16:20):
I I would watch that. I would pay money to watch that
today. If we're if we're bringing
people back, I, I want to see Aaron Pico back on the mat.
I know he's getting ready for UFC fight, but I'd want to see a
Pico Zane Zane match, I guess, right, Like something right.

(01:16:40):
So we'll certainly see. Jo says he signed.
They haven't even announced thatyet, but Jo announced that
saying that he is signed RAF. He is not going to wait for.
Anybody the yeah, the the date that he was thrown out there
wasn't correct. It was it's not October 5th that
they're not going to have back-to-back events that way.

(01:17:01):
They're they will have somethingthat is certainly not that close
and it like I said it, I'm pretty sure it's the October
30th card is what they're shooting for.
But we'll certainly see, right? Again, hopeful that RAF works
out and we get some really good wrestling to watch.
The last thing that we want to get into is kind of funny and

(01:17:25):
Willie gave some context to it. So if people haven't watched
Bosch or don't watch Bosch and the Brain Willie gave some
context to to this, to our last topic.
And it was the Jordan Hudson to Bill Belichick's girlfriend and
her role in AJ Ferrari not beingable to be admitted to UNC.

(01:17:51):
So the way that that came about and one kudos to us for, I mean,
we were joking about it right when we were talking about the
letter, but we even said like, it's not like it's not like this
was Jordan Hudson that wrote theletter and had the clout to not
admit or, or at least like get to the right people for for it
to happen. However, even all jokes aside,

(01:18:14):
what has now happened is Manningwas doing and, and Manning was
doing this, this podcast, and I'll show the clip right here so
that you guys have context to it.
Cool. I'll I'll tell you how this
thing happened. Rob Cole.
I'll be very frank and public body.
Yeah, you're a good man, coach. We love it and.

(01:18:35):
Rob Cole, that's the North Carolina coach who I've known
for 35 years and a great friend of mine called me up when when
they didn't let AJ into to the school at North Carolina and AJ
was already there training some and they didn't let him in
admission wise and for various reasons.

(01:18:59):
And Bill Belichick's girlfriend had something to do with that.
But anyway. I coach.
I think people think you're joking.
Yeah. No, no, it's very serious.
Yeah. Yeah, OK.
What one of the one of the elements along with the men's
basketball player that that had a sexual assault the week before

(01:19:20):
and and just a lot of drama. I think for that Chancellor and
and Rob was like super disappointed.
And you hear in the clip, he says something along the lines
of Jordan Hudson had something to do with Ferrari not getting
admitted. And then the interviewers

(01:19:41):
literally ask him, you know, areyou serious?
He's like, oh, no, I'm serious, right?
Because Manning is Manning. He's kind of a loose candid.
You never know what's going to happen with him.
And he's like, oh, no, I'm serious.
Willie added some more context to it in saying UNC was just
getting way too much bad pub at the time where it went from the
basketball player who was getting in trouble with some

(01:20:02):
sexual assault stuff to Jordan Hudson bringing, I guess some
bad pub and, and being as involved as she is and, and, and
was, I guess with UNC football. And then you had this letter
with AJ Ferrari and they were like.
This is just a bridge. Too far right.
So they were not allowing it to happen and now we are seeing

(01:20:27):
just, you know, the the fallout of it.
But it's kind of funny, right? What did you guys make of Jordan
Hudson's name coming up in in Maybe not name, but at least her
involvement coming up in the Manning interview?
Well, I think it's I mean it, itgives her way too much credit.
I mean, she didn't actually haveshit to do with it.

(01:20:48):
She just happens to be, you know, fat shit crazy and running
the football program and and bringing a lot of negative
attention to it. And I mean, realistically,
that's the situation is that there was too much negative
publicity and the school didn't want to take on more, you know,
the possibility of more. So like we're going to, you
know, cut our losses because I mean, again, like we say all the

(01:21:08):
time, we're wrestling. We are not a priority sport.
You know, football and basketball are going to get away
with a lot more things than wrestling well, and they'll
absorb a lot more negative attention because they bring in
money. Wrestling doesn't.
So they're not going to take that that risk and bring more
negative publicity to school when they're not getting a
return out of it. Yeah, I just thought it was

(01:21:32):
weird that Eli Manning brought this up.
No, I'm kidding. Eli, what are you doing?
Yeah. Peyton.
Yeah. It was on the Peyton Peyton
cast. I don't watch that stuff anyway.
I don't know. I mean, if he brought it up, he
probably has some insight that said that there was really some.

(01:21:52):
Like, it doesn't seem like a thing that Mark Manning would
just. No.
Cold talk of that because it's, I mean, it's it the situation is
true like. Yeah, there was just too much
bad publicity that was coming out.
And it wasn't so much that she called, made a call to anyone.
It was more so that. She was part of that bad pub
that they were getting and it was like this is we can't have
this right? This is another thing.
Very, you know, out in front in public about it and, and that's

(01:22:16):
kind of the face of the craziness that's going on at UNC
right now. Yeah, so.
But you know, it's over. He's happy in Nebraska working
on his corn Corn Dance. Yeah, I just thought it was
funny that Manning brought it up.
But you know, it's definitely not anything serious that, you
know, we're, we're ending the the show on a less serious note

(01:22:38):
after the last couple of weeks of being so drama filled.
Right, wait till next week. When yeah, we'll, we'll
certainly see. I mean, next week we'll, we'll
have some, probably some other coaching changes.
I'm having a phone call with a coach tomorrow to tell me about
what's going to be going on withhim.
It's not an interview, so you won't be Privy to what that
conversation is outside of what I relay to you, but there's, you

(01:23:02):
know, more coaching changes thatare going to be happening.
There's certainly more drama that is potentially going to
happen as well. So stay tuned people.
We appreciate you guys watching and listening.
Appreciate our sponsor. Shout out to Poseidon Strength,
shout out to Adidas Wrestling. Make sure you're using those
discount codes, especially as the season is getting closer and

(01:23:24):
you need a new pair of shoes. Use QP 25 on Adidas Wrestling.
I'm sure you're going to need it, but like I said, as always,
gentlemen, it's it's super fun and Kevin's got a a last note
to. To give us before we get out of
here. I got one more thing I wanted to
say. I wanted to shout out my buddies
that I was playing soccer with. Sorry, gentlemen, for being
late. Legitimately, this dude tore his

(01:23:45):
Achilles, I don't know, within the first quarter of the game.
And it was one of those times where you see him go down and I
was standing in front of him andhe kind of looks back and he was
like, did somebody kick me? And I just go Nope.
There it was. So shout out to Drew, shout out
to my buddies at the Cascadia club, shout out to the Forest

(01:24:07):
Hills founders who won it. It's a group of like 40 year old
dudes and we just try to figure out stuff to do once a week.
And this this summer it was soccer.
We've done rugby in the past, we've done a little bit of
pickup basketball here and there.
We play football in the winter and the fall and that's like
pretty legit. So I mean, it's hitting without

(01:24:28):
pads and everything. But anyway, just wanted to shout
out them and if if you're not good at a sport, here's a tip,
just run really hard. That's that's all I do.
And like this what? We had a sub and it was the son
of one of the other guys and he was like, damn, man, you're
everywhere. And I'm like, I don't know what
to do when I get there, but I dorun to the spot a lot, you know?

(01:24:51):
All out effort, all out effort, maximum effort.
That's exactly what you can get.But like I said, gentlemen, it's
always fun chopping it up with you, having some laughs.
Appreciate all of the people that have been watching and
listening so far. Continue to subscribe,
subscribe, subscribe, subscribe so we can bring you guys more
content. You know, the more subscribers

(01:25:13):
we get, the more we can do to continue to do that.
You know, phone a friend, tell him to hit that subscribe button
and you know, throw those comments in there as well.
Whether you like something we say, you hate something we say,
you want us, you want to ask a question, you want to challenge
us on something, we're here for it, right?
Like I said in the beginning of the show, we're not going to

(01:25:35):
disrespect people, call them idiots unless it's warranted.
Unless you disrespect us, we're going to be pretty cool with
you. So let's keep bringing people
into the to the trust tree, I guess, or at least the the
YouTube trust tree as much as itpossibly can.
Again, appreciate our sponsors. Shout out to Adidas Wrestling
and Poseidon Strength and we'll see you guys again next week.
Peace.

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Borshoff stepping down, Ware hired at UNC, Vito vs Forrest picks, NCAA rule changes, RAF | Ep. 8

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Borshoff stepping down, Ware hired at UNC, Vito vs Forrest picks, NCAA rule changes, RAF | Ep. 8