May 30, 2025 • 36 mins
Geoff travels to Acton in West London to meet the visionary alto saxophonist, bandleader and composer Camilla George.
Born in Nigeria before moving to the UK, Camilla's musical foundation was built on Sunday afternoons spent with her jazz-enthusiast father, listening to his extensive vinyl collection featuring legends like Sonny Rollins and Sonny Stitt.
What emerges throughout the conversation is how powerfully Camilla's Nigerian heritage influences her artistic expression. Her third studio album ‘Ibio-Ibio’ celebrates the culture of the people from her birthplace in Eket (now Akwa Ibom State), with compositions reflecting creation myths and cultural touchstones. When she describes transforming African folk tales from her childhood into jazz compositions we glimpse how story becomes sound in her creative process.
Her journey through transcription began with Dexter Gordon before tackling Charlie Parker, with Kenny Garrett emerging as a significant influence on both her playing and compositional approach. Camilla’s rendition of Horace Silver’s 1950s standard ‘Peace’ also demonstrates her warm, expressive alto saxophone tone.
The conversation takes us through career highlights, including sitting in with bass virtuoso Marcus Miller at London's Festival Hall—what was meant to be one song expanded to four when Miller invited her to stay on stage. Yet even with such achievements, Camilla remains refreshingly candid about the challenges musicians face, sharing a recent experience with performance anxiety during a big band rehearsal.
Whether you're a musician seeking inspiration or a listener curious about the creative process, Camilla's thoughtful reflections offer valuable insights into crafting an authentic voice in contemporary jazz. Subscribe to hear more conversations with today's most compelling jazz artists, and explore the Quartet app to take your own jazz journey further.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:01):
Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're well.
It's another beautiful springday and I'm in West London, I'm
in Acton.
I'm going to see a wonderfulyoung alto player.
Her name is Camilla George.
I've only ever worked with heronce before, but she's doing
some really good things forBritish jazz.
I'm looking forward to meetingher and talking about her roots,
(00:23):
talking about practising,talking about sitting in with
famous jazz musicians.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:44):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:54):
Hello, it's Geoff.
Camilla (00:55):
Hello, it's the top floor, my friend.
Geoff (00:58):
OK, come out.
Thanks.
There's my exercise for the day.
How are you?
I'm good, thanks nice to see youthanks for having me around.
It's all right.
Oh god, this is my uh, I callit the pinnacle so how are you
(01:23):
today?
I'm good thanks.
Yeah, it's a lovely day, isn'tit in Acton?
Camilla (01:26):
a it's wicked.
Yeah, it's always sunny inacting, is it?
Is that right?
No?
Geoff (01:32):
Can we start by talking about how you got started into
improvising and a little bitabout your background?
Camilla (01:37):
I got into jazz from my dad.
My dad was a massive jazz fan,um, and he had a big vinyl
collection and every Sunday Iused to sit with him and we'd
listen to all his favorites.
Um, I've got some of it hereStanley Turrentine, Sunny Steer,
and that's how I got into kindof listening to improvised music
(01:59):
.
And, um, when I was 11, that'swhen I started playing saxophone
and I discovered, um,Tomorrow's Warriors.
My mom had taken me to see JazzJamaica yeah, Denys Baptiste
was playing and I remember kindof going up to him being like
I've just got a sax I'm gonna bejust like you um, hugely
(02:21):
presumptuous on my part, butthat's how I started getting
into the music.
And then my parents used to takeme to loads of concerts.
I went with my dad to see SonnyRollins quite a few times
actually.
Geoff (02:32):
I guess he would be walking out into the audience
right, and Sonny used to do thatdidn't he?
Camilla (02:36):
He did.
Well, the last time I saw him,he was obviously quite old.
I think that might be one ofthe last concerts that he did.
But quite old, I think thatmight be one of the last
concerts that he did.
But yeah, when I was younger hewas definitely a performer,
right, right.
Geoff (02:49):
Were you born in West London?
Are you from this e undefined?
Camilla (02:50):
a I've lived in West London for the majority of my
life, but I was actually born inNigeria and then we came over
here.
Well, actually we had tobecause my dad got deported.
We couldn't stay because mydad's grenadian Grenadian and we
came and the first place thatwe stayed in london London
(03:13):
halsden, Harlesden which wasokay, but we moved progressively
further west.
Geoff (03:19):
Yeah, was there any influence of African music early
on?
Was there any influence of?
Camilla (03:23):
African music early on, Definitely, my parents listened
to a lot of Fela, King SunnyAde.
I mean, my parents saw Fela atthe Shrine in Nigeria, which is
like so cool.
Geoff (03:35):
Famous In the 70s.
Yeah, very cool.
Fela Kuti yes, do you findthat's kind of in your music
you're making at the moment?
Camilla (03:42):
Yeah, definitely, I'm definitely influenced in the
sounds and the um.
I guess the stories behindwhere I was born.
I went back a few times so Iwas born in a place called Eket
in what is now Akwa Ibom stateand actually there is a big band
now um the BBO Sounds Project,but nobody else was from that.
(04:05):
Every other Nigerian I met waskind of like Yoruba or Hausa or
whatever.
But yes, the BBO culture issomething that has influenced my
writing massively.
What's what's the sort of umsignificance of that music,
would you say?
I think it's more thesignificance of the people in
the community.
So my my last album, IbbioIbbio, that was dedicated to the
(04:27):
BBO people and Ibbio Ibbio islike their nickname.
It technically means short, butit doesn't mean that everyone's
short.
It's like their quick, quickway of doing things.
They don't mess about and theydon't faff around, and all of
the tunes in there were kind ofabout our creation myths and the
things that really important tothe society.
So, um, the god Abassi and hiswife, atai ekpe, which is a
(04:52):
secret society, which it'sreally, it's a religious group,
but they govern the law andorder, so kind of like like a
local policeman as well right,um, and there were a whole load
of things.
There's a shrine in the villageum, the Juju Shrine, which I
wrote about.
I've always been someone thathas been influenced in my
(05:14):
writing by stories, and thething that I've always been
fascinated about is the peoplethat I was born into and grew up
with.
I think, do you write lyrics too?
No, um, there's something Iwant to get into, but it is
something that it's not.
As an instrumentalist, you know, you can't just be like oh yeah
, now I'm gonna write somelyrics, because this, when I've
(05:35):
had a go, they haven't been verygood, it's hard isn't it?
Geoff (05:38):
yeah, it's really hard.
I know you say you're inspiredby people, but how would that
translate into actual musicalterms if you would have to say
that was this certain riffythings or chord sequences, or
how could you put that intowords?
Camilla (05:51):
Well, there's one tune on my second album which is
based on a book of African folktales which my mom used to read
to me and I've actually got iton the bookshelf and the book is
called The People Could Fly andit's got all these tales of
animals in them and when I wasyounger I thought that's just
about animals, but actually it'sabout the animals take on the
(06:11):
roles of the slaves and theslave owners.
So it's actually is very deep.
This book and one of the tunesis about a turtle tapping the
land turtle and one of the tunesI wrote on the album and it's
based on this story there's afamine.
The turtle goes to see theunderlord and he gives him a
stick and he says if you tapthat three times, food will
(06:33):
appear, but you can't tap itmore than that.
So in the tune that I wroteI've got this riff which comes
three times.
People always like get a bitcaught out on because they
expect it to be twice and thenit's three times and that's the
whole thing of that.
Trying to mirror bits of thestory in the way I've written it
(06:54):
.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Geoff (06:55):
When you were developing as a soloist, as an improviser?
How did you get your vocabulary?
Did you transcribe things?
Where do you think yourvocabulary came from?
Your improvising vocabulary?
Camilla (07:07):
Definitely transcriptions.
I mean, I had Jean Toussaint asa teacher from quite an early
age.
I think I must have been 13,actually, when I first 13, 14,
when I first went for lessonswith him.
He was very scary at the timeand his big thing was
transcriptions.
And that's how I got into that.
It's kind of a magic thing,isn't it?
Geoff (07:28):
if you transcribe, you suddenly get better well, not
suddenly, but you definitely getbetter.
Yeah, it does take a little bit, if it was that easy.
Camilla (07:38):
It's not a magic trick, but there's this thing of that
deep listening that it seeps in.
Obviously, if you justtranscribe and you don't analyze
it, then there's limits as tohow yeah, how far, but that's
definitely something I, I loveto do.
Are are there um particularsolos that you could cite as
being a sort of a formativething for you?
(07:59):
Um, when I first startedtranscribing, I went to Dexter
because that was a way ofhearing the Bebop language in a
clearer way for me than, say,going straight to Parker,
because yeah, I think the thingwith Parker is it's not just the
language, it's phrasing.
That's quite.
Sometimes when you analyze itit's quite odd.
(08:19):
I mean, I did for mydissertation, which I don't
think they very much enjoyed,but I was looking at the kind of
influence of the clave rhythmon West African clave, on some
of Parker's phrasing, because Ifind it quite odd.
I think that's something that'squite distinct.
But anyways, that didn't goanywhere.
No, but the clave appears inevery kind of western music,
doesn't it?
It's everywhere.
Geoff (08:39):
That's quite distinct, but anyways, that didn't go
anywhere.
Yeah, but no, but the claveappears in every kind of western
music, doesn't it?
It's everywhere, it'severywhere.
Camilla (08:46):
Um, there's something particular with his, with the,
with his phrasing.
So I started with Dexter loadsof those classic um.
You know, Our Man in Paris wasone album.
I just was like, right, I'mgonna do the whole album.
Sonny Stitt um, I rememberSunny Side of the Street being
that raffle.
I've got to get go get thewhole thing down.
Um and um.
(09:07):
Vincent Herring became um was aobsession of mine for quite,
quite some time and then Idiscovered my absolute kind of
um idol, Kenny Garrett, and Istarted getting into that and
that Kenny's great because he'sgot such a vast kind of catalog.
I found um early recordings ofhim, you know, just playing
(09:30):
playing standards, but he'sreally young, and then you've
got all the different stages ofhis playing career.
Yeah, and there's something tobe taken from all of them, I
think, especially as an altoplayer yeah, yeah.
Did you always just play alto?
Geoff (09:41):
Did you play tenor before that?
Camilla (09:43):
I dabbled for about a month with tenor and realized I
didn't really like it.
I've thought about it in recentyears and I think it is because
when I was first listening tojazz, most of the people that I
was listening to that my dadliked were alto players and we
loved Jackie, Jackie McLean andSonny Step on alto.
So I think that's why I feellike I didn't want to do
(10:07):
anything else.
Geoff (10:08):
What was your process for extracting the information from
the solos that you heard?
Did you take licks out and didyou put those into your playing
at some stage?
Camilla (10:18):
The thing with the transcription.
At first, I find I've neverbeen someone to write it down
immediately, so I'm quite a slowtranscriber.
Even though I've been doing itfor years, I feel I'm just
slower at it.
I don't know why, but I like tojust get it down on the horn,
make sure I can play it in allcircumstances and speed it up,
(10:40):
and then I'll take little bits,put them through the keys and
then I mean it doesn't soundvery musical, does it like?
Geoff (10:47):
force it into tunes but that is obviously, but that's as
much of a technical exercise aswell, isn't it to do?
Yeah?
Camilla (10:53):
exactly and then modify it slightly, and then do that,
do it again through the keys andthen push it through.
Geoff (11:00):
That's fantastic.
When did you start composing?
Camilla (11:03):
I think it was 2013.
I did a gig with Courtney Pine.
He decided he wanted to do athing for women in jazz and it
was called Venus Warriors, and awhole load of people were on
there that I play with now, likeRosie Turton and Sheila Maurice
Gray, I think, was doing it, oh,and Nabi was doing, actually,
and they all had, I think theyall had pieces and.
(11:24):
I came, I really like um HoraceSilver's compositional style and
I came with Nica's Dream and itwas like, yeah, okay, this is
fine, but you, why do you nothave any of your own material?
Why are you not composing?
And I just said, well, I don'treally know how to do it and I
just thought, well, you justhave to start yeah and that was
how, the year later, 2014, waswhen I started my band and you
(11:49):
know I'm sorry to my band mateswho I still play with but yeah,
some of those early tunes werenot good, but it was a vehicle
for me to learn you know, yeah,yeah,
Geoff (12:00):
In your development, what part would you say jazz
standards played?
Camilla (12:05):
Um, I think a large part up until a certain time.
Um, so definitely, I went toTrinity whilst I was there and
afterwards, it's probably when Idid my second album and I
started getting more into thewriting, you know, because half
the gigs would be standards formy band and then or an original
(12:25):
that's basically written on astandard.
Well, I kind of moved away fromthat, I think, with the second
album and then with the thirdalbum I was like I really like
exploring my own stuff and Ithink again reference Kenny, but
I really find his compositionalstyle to be something that I've
really want to emulate.
(12:46):
I like the fact that his sound,his music, it's not accessible
in that oh, it's selling out,but it's like it reaches you and
It's catchy too, isn't it?
Yeah?
yeah, and some of it's kind oflike nursery rhyme-esque like
sing a song but when you go toplay over that, it's not that
easy, and that's the thing thatI like.
It's like something that'smaking music accessible without
(13:09):
it being.
I'm going to do this thing in13.
Everyone knows it's difficult.
None of the musicians areenjoying playing it, but, yes, I
can play over it, and that'ssomething I've kind of tried to
move away from, I suppose.
Geoff (13:21):
But as a composer, you're in control, aren't you?
You decide all that.
Camilla (13:25):
Yeah, exactly,
Geoff (13:26):
You're a little bit more in control of your own destiny,
aren't you?
Camilla (13:29):
Yeah, definitely I make them play the stuff I want to
play.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so that's been a greatpart of developing a bit more as
a composer, and I have a longway to go.
I'd say it's something that Idefinitely feel needs working on
.
Geoff (13:45):
It's like practicing instrument, isn't it doing
composing?
I compose a lot as well,actually, but um, you just get
better and better at it the moreyou do it, don't you?
Yeah?
Camilla (13:53):
I think so.
I think my piano playing hasimproved, because at first it
was just kind of me stabbingaway at like terrible, terrible
voicings and yeah, I've kind ofgot a little bit more
understanding.
Yeah, I think now
Geoff (14:13):
So I have some apps.
Brilliant.
I sent you some apps the otherday.
Have you, um?
Have you checked them out?
Have you you had a listen?
Camilla (14:20):
I have.
There's some amazing tunes onthere and also it's just great
that it's people in the rhythmsection that I actually you know
I saw Rod was.
Geoff (14:30):
Oh, Rod's on there, yeah, yeah, when he plays in my band.
So I was like this is just likeplaying with him on the gig.
It was so funny when I had Rodin the studio.
I don't think he actually knewwhat he was in for.
He's on probably 150 of thetunes.
But poor Rod was just like 'Areyou joking'?
But amazing, amazing, all witha click, all recorded with a
(14:51):
click.
You know that's the key in thestudio.
You know, to make it sound likeit's not with a click, yes,
Because it's all loopable, isn'tyou know?
Camilla (15:07):
it has to, it has to be .
It has to be for the use ofyeah, for people's usage, yeah,
but it's great and so good tohave an app with, with tracks
that sound like music you know,yeah, I mean, I know you've got
Aebersold stuff, but um well,that's where I grew up with
listening to Aebersold musicdefinitely, and there's some
great players on some of thoseas well.
Geoff (15:21):
Some of them speed up, and then some of them are a bit
dodgy, aren't they in places?
Camilla (15:24):
Yes, and I think I always find I hope I don't get
in trouble with , but some ofthe kind of Latin swingy ones,
like it always sounds a littlebit like yeah, okay, no.
Geoff (15:37):
I know.
So we're planning volume fiveand six at the moment.
So, wow, trying to get a littlebit more advanced as we go.
So you know, three and four hasKenny Wheeler and Pat Metheny
and some of these composers onit.
So if you have any suggestionsfor tunes, please let me know.
For five and six wow.
Camilla (15:54):
Well, I'm obviously going to say Kenny Garrett tune,
that's a great idea.
Geoff (15:58):
I'm going to do that, yeah, so I asked you to pick a
tune to play for us, and whatdid you choose?
Camilla (16:06):
I chose Peace by Horace Silver.
Why did you choose that?
I discovered Horace Silver whenI was at Trinity.
I found a book of his big bandarrangements, or larger band
arrangements, and I just reallylove his writing.
I think, that his pieces reallysound.
(16:27):
I think they're quite distinctand some of my favourite
standards have been written byhim.
Geoff (16:33):
And again, just like Kenny Garrett, they're very
catchy, aren't they, and veryhooky yeah they are yeah.
This is the backing track Ifyou want to stick your
headphones on.
And then let's just see ifyou've got a balance and I'm
going to have to turn your gaindown of your microphone.
What do you do for warming up?
Do you have a regular sort ofpractice routine?
What's your?
Do you have a daily thing or um?
Camilla (16:54):
yeah, well, I do.
Um, I I may manage to practicemost days.
I think Monday's the only daythat I can't practice because I
do a very long teaching day atschool.
But I have just recentlystarted using a drone.
Geoff (17:11):
How do you generate the drone, then when does that come
from YouTube, oh?
Camilla (17:16):
I didn't know you could do that.
Yeah, you can just search it up.
I'm always looking on theselike sax forums and they're
saying they do that forintonation and then I go through
the kind of overtones seriesand some days better than others
, depending on reed situation.
Geoff (17:35):
With a tuner, just to check your tuner.
Camilla (17:38):
I usually double-check um overtone with the actual um
note.
So I'll I'll just double checkthat and I'll match it um, and
that's I mean unfortunately.
Geoff (17:49):
Can you demonstrate that for me?
Camilla (17:58):
So it's quite different , yeah, and.
I'll spend time doing that.
I mean obviously fortunately itsounds like a foghorn to
everyone else.
But so I do that, and then Ilike to do scales in three
octaves so that my altissimofingerings are the most useful,
(18:19):
because it's all very wellhaving these fingerings are the
most useful, because it's allvery well having these
fingerings.
But then when you have somethingfast and you're kind of all
over the place it doesn't work,and that's the thing I remember
reading on an interview aboutBrecker and how he had this
whole system for altissimo,which I mean I haven't studied
in enough detail, really, andalso it's tenor, so it might be
(18:41):
so different, but I thought thatwas interesting, just being
able to like economical use offingers really yeah, to make the
top end much clearer and muchmore in tune, I suppose also
well, I mean, that's a struggle.
I don't, especially on alto,that's never, never, never fun,
but um, but just also to be ableto get up there and back down
(19:01):
so you can do phrases withaltissimo, which is what I'm
working on moment and it beingnatural rather than being like,
here's the altissimo a and thengoing off and do um so yeah, so
I do those um scales and filtersand then usually um a diatonic
exercise, um, and I'll do thatwith a metronome in all keys and
(19:25):
then I'll turn my attention towhatever.
Geoff (19:28):
And then you can put Quartet on and you have a choice
of 500 standards Exactly thereyou go there, we go.
Right.
Thank you, um, um Thank you?
(21:37):
Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous.
That's such an amazing tune,isn't it?
I was just listening to that,just thinking about how
differently A major sounds to Dflat major, how the different
tone centres.
Camilla (21:48):
Yeah, Do you know what I mean?
I know what you mean.
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
Geoff (21:52):
It's great yeah, let's just describe that tune so it's
a minor 2-5-1 to G minor andthen it goes to b major briefly
yes, it's got that that real.
And then to b flat major andthen a major and d flat major.
Yeah, it's gorgeous, isn't it?
Yeah, I've not really listenedto that tune very much before
Camilla (22:12):
It takes my brain a second, because obviously I'm in
a minor third below.
Yeah, like.
Geoff (22:16):
So for me when it goes to the, G flat yeah and then it
has the incidentally, sorry tointerrupt, you know you can
display the chords on here in eflat as well.
Camilla (22:26):
Oh yeah, it's a bind, isn't it having an instrument
that's I find it okay on chords,but it's the dots, it's someone
you know.
You get people that don'trealize that it's not in um.
You're not in c in then why isthat, though?
Geoff (22:41):
Why is that?
Why not just call C, C?
Huh?
Camilla (22:46):
I have no idea there is .
I saw, yeah, I was gonna get.
I really wanted to get one.
I thought I have too manysaxophones and then also be
weird to play an alto in c andthen go back to playing one
that's in a flat.
Geoff (23:00):
Oh oh, that was absolutely gorgeous.
How did it feel playing alongwith that backing track?
Did it feel okay?
Camilla (23:06):
It's great.
Yeah, it's great.
I'm really looking forward tosaying I've got this solo gig.
I very rarely do gigs on my ownfor that reason, because it's
hard finding backing tracks.
And also the last gig that Idid in this realm, in the
fashion world, for LondonFashion Week, I had to do one of
the sets on my own as duo, so Ihad to go into Logic on the
(23:31):
Aebersold ones and kind of getrid of that.
You know one, two one, two,three, four.
It just doesn't sell.
Geoff (23:39):
you know, actually, inside the app there's an
upgrade.
You can actually pay to haveall the stems as well.
Camilla (23:44):
Oh wow, now I'm really looking forward to actually
playing with those.
Geoff (23:48):
Are you someone who learns new tunes?
Do you like to learn newstandards
Camilla (23:51):
.
I've been trying to do that.
The thing with jazz, isn't it?
It's like if you don't keepgoing on jazz, it just goes.
Geoff (23:58):
Unfortunately, that's because it's hard, isn't it?
Camilla (24:00):
It's really hard and I definitely feel that's something
that you know I've been tryingto force myself to do that.
I mean, you don't always havethe time to do it, but it's as
nice as a project.
You know to kind of do newtunes, yeah.
Geoff (24:17):
So what's the gig you're doing?
Is it for fashion or something.
Camilla (24:28):
Yes, it's for a fashion house, an italian fashion house
, and they are doing an eventand they want music.
Myself and my piano player,Renato, we played in Milan about
a month ago um, and that wasvery Milan Fashion Week.
Yeah, that was very cool and,um, yeah, we play as duo, but
they want this now as just asolo, which is quite scary, I
think.
Yeah.
It's a scary thing, I think asa sax player.
Geoff (24:49):
Is it a concert or something?
Camilla (24:51):
I don't think anyone's going to be listening to my
music.
Geoff (24:54):
Well, just have a nice time and just play some
standards.
I'm just going to have a greattime playing some standards
which.
Camilla (24:58):
I never get to do.
I had a great time playing somestandards which I never get to
do.
Geoff (25:05):
I've got a few questions for you, if that's all right.
Maybe some of them are easierto answer than others.
Okay, so the first one iswhat's your favourite album?
Camilla (25:13):
It has to be one.
It's difficult, isn't it?
Between Songbook, Ken Garrettand actually Bar Talk, which is
by Jeff 'Tain' Watts, and thenyou've got all the classic ones
that I love, but I'm justthinking in terms of what I
really, because Bar Talk, I loveit because it's got Mr JJ,
(25:34):
which has got that amazingsaxophone duel between Branford
and Brecker.
Geoff (25:40):
Has that got that blues on it?
That, yes, it does, I think itdoes.
Camilla (25:47):
Yeah, I think that's brilliant I, I just yeah, I mean
I literally just put it on andit's like Mr JJ, and it's just
so good, oh so good yeah so Ithink actually maybe that may
top it, even though I love Kennyyeah, yeah,
It's difficult to choose afavourite album, isn't it?
I mean?
Yeah when you hear thatquestion, maybe your first
impulse is probably the bestanswer.
But yeah, I mean we know thatthere's so many albums that have
(26:09):
influenced us yeah Is there afavourite musician, alive or
dead, that you would like toplay with?
Going in the same vein, I'd love to play with Tain.
Um, I'd love to have been that,just that little rhythm section
that Branford used, and I kindof you know, Kenny
I saw that band actually in the90s.
I remember when they're in theheight of that thing with Kenny
(26:32):
Kirkland yes, yeah, yeah I sawthem at Ronnie's wow actually in
the 90s yeah wow, well, thatwould be my dream rhythm section
.
Yeah yeah, it was incredible,wasn't it?
Kenny Kirkland is such a legend.
It's very sad that he passed so early.
Geoff (26:47):
Yeah, all of them amazing .
Has there been a highlight ofyour career to date, a best gig
perhaps?
Camilla (26:53):
I was very, very lucky to have sat in with Marcus
Miller on a few occasions.
Wow, the first time we were onthe same circuit and we were
supposed to be playing at afestival together in France, but
he wanted to meet me on thisother festival where I was not
supposed to be joining him.
Yeah, and I was like, oh mygosh, and he was so lovely.
Geoff (27:13):
How did that come about then?
How did that meeting come about?
Camilla (27:17):
I think it's his manager is friends with my agent
and they'd sent him a video orsomething and he said, oh yeah,
I'd love to for her to come, youknow, sit in or something.
And yeah, he was great.
And actually when I met him,you know, we had this thing and
I went into the room, Then Ileft and I was like, oh my gosh,
it's straight into MarcusMiller.
And then his manager called meback and he was like he wants to
(27:39):
speak to you again and I said,oh gosh, and he was like I'm
really sorry, I think I calledyou Camellia instead of Camilla.
I was just like you can call mewhatever is fine, we were
opening for them.
We were like, yeah, we feltgood about our gig, that's cool.
And I had actually gone to thetoilet.
When I came out the toilet, myband were like he just called
you on the stage.
(27:59):
He's just, he's called you upon the stage.
He's like we told him you werein the toilet, I was like, oh no
, so I had to, kind of I wentoff and I was just terrified.
That was great but and I satlucky to have sat with him in
Europe a few times after that,but the main one was at Festival
Hall for the London JazzFestival in November, just gone,
(28:21):
and that was because that washome ground and with Marcus,
with Marcus, and it was amazingbecause for me his saxophone
player is is amazing.
His altissimo, just ridiculous.
I don't understand how he's justso controlled and you know, to
be able to play next to him, andI just learned the whole set
(28:43):
yeah and I think the idea was Ijust come on for one.
But then and I kind of went toleave and then Marcus said I
know you can stay on, so Iplayed about four tunes, and it
was that was probably myhighlight.
It was just great, I mean it'sso exciting.
Geoff (28:58):
Oh, it's amazing.
What a great, great experience.
What was the last concert thatyou attended?
Camilla (29:04):
Kenny Garrett.
Yeah.
It was Kenny Garrett I went to.
Embarrassingly for me, he wasat Ronnie Scott's, I think,
Thursday through to Saturday andI went every night.
Geoff (29:15):
Do you know him?
Have you met him before?
Camilla (29:17):
Yeah, I have met him.
I mean he now.
Yeah, I think he tolerates me,because it's just like what's
her again
Geoff (29:22):
Fangirl yeah.
What would you say to yourmusical weakness?
Camilla (29:27):
Oh gosh, loads of things um, making sure the
horn's in tune.
I mean, I play old saxes.
That's always a struggle.
Um, sometimes more successfulthan others.
Yeah, ridiculously fast tempossometimes I find that to be
still kind of working, to beable to think quickly and to be
(29:49):
able to play musically as welland I guess just hard tunes,
hard music.
Geoff (29:57):
Do you ever get nervous on stage?
Definitely, I actually just hadan experience.
Hard tunes, hard music, yeah,yeah, hard music, of course.
Yeah, Do you?
ever get nervous on stage?
Camilla (30:03):
Definitely.
I actually just had anexperience.
I wasn't even on stage a coupleof days ago and you have these
experiences that you're like, ohit's gutting.
A friend of mine's got and he'sgot an amazing big band.
Shout out to Dan Casimir, hisbig band's project.
His writing's amazing.
But I think I was flustered.
I arrived to the thing late andI just had a panic attack.
(30:24):
I've never had that and when Icame to solo I just couldn't.
I didn't even know what Iplayed.
I know it wasn't good.
It was like I was outside of mybody observing it.
I think it threw me because Ihave now been playing for 10
years, so you don't imagine thatthat would happen in a
(30:44):
rehearsal space.
And, as I said, I got up withMarcus Miller and was like yeah,
let's go for it.
Geoff (30:49):
What was the cause of that you think?
Camilla (30:50):
Probably stress from everyday life and also, I think,
stress from being late.
It was the reading aspect,which I consider myself an okay
reader.
I don't think that's my, youknow I'm not a NYJO reader.
So I you know, I like to have abit of time on it, and I think
(31:11):
it was just this pressure ofmaybe being in a situation like
that which I hadn't been in fora little while, and there being
loads of musicians yeah some ofthem that I didn't know right,
okay I don't know, it was verystrange.
Geoff (31:24):
How do you feel when you play in front of other musicians
, especially in other musiciansthat you respect?
How does that affect yourplaying?
Camilla (31:30):
Oh, it definitely makes you nervous.
There's always that vibe oflike oh, and it takes me a
little while, but it's somethingthat I've worked on quite a bit
, because I think when thathappens, it's like you're not in
the moment, are you You'rethinking about?
I wonder what they're thinkingof my playing.
Yeah, I know, and then you'vemade a mistake.
Oh no, I've made a mistake.
You're thinking about themistake and then the moment's
gone and you've not.
Geoff (31:51):
Yeah, it's hard, that's really hard, isn't it?
Yeah.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Camilla (32:00):
Probably, just a simple ham and cheese.
Geoff (32:05):
Excellent.
What about a favourite movie?
Camilla (32:08):
Oh, that's easy.
I make everybody watch this,Splash.
Geoff (32:16):
Oh, that's the Daryl, the Daryl Hannah mermaid one.
Camilla (32:18):
I'm obsessed with mermaids.
I've written so many tunesabout mermaids, and I found
another one.
Geoff (32:24):
Did you speak to Tara Minton?
You know Tara.
Yeah, she made an album ofsomething to do with mermaids,
didn't she?
Did she?
Yeah, okay, I'll check that out, for definitely.
Yes, listen to her.
What about a favourite venue?
Camilla (32:35):
Oh, okay, I would say UK it has to be Ronnie's, going
to the jam sessions, meetingother musicians, etc.
But outside of the UK it has tobe Club Jasmine in Warsaw,
Poland, because that place isamazing, it's for musicians,
it's in the Nobu Hotel and theyput you up in the Nobu Hotel, so
(32:58):
that doesn't hurt, you get thelift down from your room to the
to the venue, so that's great.
When we got to the green room,there was the usual rider plus
all these other things and a PS5which my bass player and
drummer were like.
I mean, they didn't want to dothe gig, they were still playing
.
Whatever it was they wereplaying the sound is great on
the gig and then afterwards theywere just like the bar is yours
(33:21):
.
Yeah, I mean, when do we everget people saying that it's
usually like here's you knowTesco's Meal Deal, and that's it
Geoff (33:30):
I played at a few different places like that, too,
where you just you're in thehotel and you're playing in the
basement.
Yeah, in Stockholm, I think itwas, there's a hotel that's
owned by one of the guys fromABBA.
Wow, I was playing there withJamie Cullum.
A concert theatre in the hotel,wow.
Yeah, you can imagine, can'tyou?
Camilla (33:48):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Geoff (33:50):
What about a favourite country or a city that you like
to visit?
Camilla (33:54):
I'm going to be disloyal to my Nigerian heritage
.
As much as I like Nigeria, I'mnot going to say Nigeria, I'm
actually going to say, uh,Portugal, okay, um, I really
like going to Porto.
I know that sounds very bougie,but, um, me and my mum have
been going kind of regularlyevery year and it's just great.
We took a trip on the DouroValley thing.
(34:16):
We just went on this boat andthen we moored up and it was
local wine and food as much asyou could eat and drink.
That was pretty lovely.
Geoff (34:23):
Does your mum live in London?
Camilla (34:25):
she lives about 30 minutes away from me so yeah,
she's a another west Londonperson
Geoff (34:31):
Excellent, excellent, okay so final question what's
your favorite chord?
Camilla (34:35):
Do you know what, I write with a lot of these chords
, and then I, I this is what Ikind of fell off the wagon on
that big band thing, sus.
I love a sus chord.
I just think that's that soundof a sus chord is probably.
It's so hip and there's so manypossibilities, I think, in
terms of um playing over it
Geoff (34:57):
Um nerdy notation question.
Would you prefer, like B, flattriad?
Camilla (35:02):
Yeah.
Geoff (35:02):
Over C.
Camilla (35:03):
Yeah.
Geoff (35:04):
Or C sus.
Camilla (35:05):
If I was playing, with my terrible voicings, on the
piano, I'd probably go for theslash, but for in terms of as
playing.
Geoff (35:12):
You like to see it written as a seventh chord?
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
So what have you got coming up?
You got some some good stuffcoming up, interesting.
Camilla (35:20):
So what have you got coming up?
You've got some good stuffcoming up.
Yeah, on Thursday I'm going toBlue Night Milan.
Back again there, that would benice, that's with your own group
, with my band Fabulous.
And then on Saturday I've gotthe big band concert with Daniel
Casimir at Cheltenham JazzFestival.
Geoff (35:36):
Brilliant.
Camilla (35:37):
Yeah, and then we've got various things coming up.
So yeah yeah, should be funfabulous.
Geoff (35:42):
Well, good luck with everything and thanks for your
time thanks very much and I'llsee you very soon see you soon,
bye, bye
Thank you for making it to theend of another podcast.
please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production Quartet for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
(36:04):
another level.
Search for Quartet on the AppStore or find out more at
quartetappcom.
Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're well.
It's another beautiful springday and I'm in West London, I'm
in Acton.
I'm going to see a wonderfulyoung alto player.
Her name is Camilla George.
I've only ever worked with heronce before, but she's doing
some really good things forBritish jazz.
I'm looking forward to meetingher and talking about her roots,
(00:23):
talking about practising,talking about sitting in with
famous jazz musicians.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:44):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:54):
Hello, it's Geoff.
Camilla (00:55):
Hello, it's the top floor, my friend.
Geoff (00:58):
OK, come out.
Thanks.
There's my exercise for the day.
How are you?
I'm good, thanks nice to see youthanks for having me around.
It's all right.
Oh god, this is my uh, I callit the pinnacle so how are you
(01:23):
today?
I'm good thanks.
Yeah, it's a lovely day, isn'tit in Acton?
Camilla (01:26):
a it's wicked.
Yeah, it's always sunny inacting, is it?
Is that right?
No?
Geoff (01:32):
Can we start by talking about how you got started into
improvising and a little bitabout your background?
Camilla (01:37):
I got into jazz from my dad.
My dad was a massive jazz fan,um, and he had a big vinyl
collection and every Sunday Iused to sit with him and we'd
listen to all his favorites.
Um, I've got some of it hereStanley Turrentine, Sunny Steer,
and that's how I got into kindof listening to improvised music
(01:59):
.
And, um, when I was 11, that'swhen I started playing saxophone
and I discovered, um,Tomorrow's Warriors.
My mom had taken me to see JazzJamaica yeah, Denys Baptiste
was playing and I remember kindof going up to him being like
I've just got a sax I'm gonna bejust like you um, hugely
(02:21):
presumptuous on my part, butthat's how I started getting
into the music.
And then my parents used to takeme to loads of concerts.
I went with my dad to see SonnyRollins quite a few times
actually.
Geoff (02:32):
I guess he would be walking out into the audience
right, and Sonny used to do thatdidn't he?
Camilla (02:36):
He did.
Well, the last time I saw him,he was obviously quite old.
I think that might be one ofthe last concerts that he did.
But quite old, I think thatmight be one of the last
concerts that he did.
But yeah, when I was younger hewas definitely a performer,
right, right.
Geoff (02:49):
Were you born in West London?
Are you from this e undefined?
Camilla (02:50):
a I've lived in West London for the majority of my
life, but I was actually born inNigeria and then we came over
here.
Well, actually we had tobecause my dad got deported.
We couldn't stay because mydad's grenadian Grenadian and we
came and the first place thatwe stayed in london London
(03:13):
halsden, Harlesden which wasokay, but we moved progressively
further west.
Geoff (03:19):
Yeah, was there any influence of African music early
on?
Was there any influence of?
Camilla (03:23):
African music early on, Definitely, my parents listened
to a lot of Fela, King SunnyAde.
I mean, my parents saw Fela atthe Shrine in Nigeria, which is
like so cool.
Geoff (03:35):
Famous In the 70s.
Yeah, very cool.
Fela Kuti yes, do you findthat's kind of in your music
you're making at the moment?
Camilla (03:42):
Yeah, definitely, I'm definitely influenced in the
sounds and the um.
I guess the stories behindwhere I was born.
I went back a few times so Iwas born in a place called Eket
in what is now Akwa Ibom stateand actually there is a big band
now um the BBO Sounds Project,but nobody else was from that.
(04:05):
Every other Nigerian I met waskind of like Yoruba or Hausa or
whatever.
But yes, the BBO culture issomething that has influenced my
writing massively.
What's what's the sort of umsignificance of that music,
would you say?
I think it's more thesignificance of the people in
the community.
So my my last album, IbbioIbbio, that was dedicated to the
(04:27):
BBO people and Ibbio Ibbio islike their nickname.
It technically means short, butit doesn't mean that everyone's
short.
It's like their quick, quickway of doing things.
They don't mess about and theydon't faff around, and all of
the tunes in there were kind ofabout our creation myths and the
things that really important tothe society.
So, um, the god Abassi and hiswife, atai ekpe, which is a
(04:52):
secret society, which it'sreally, it's a religious group,
but they govern the law andorder, so kind of like like a
local policeman as well right,um, and there were a whole load
of things.
There's a shrine in the villageum, the Juju Shrine, which I
wrote about.
I've always been someone thathas been influenced in my
(05:14):
writing by stories, and thething that I've always been
fascinated about is the peoplethat I was born into and grew up
with.
I think, do you write lyrics too?
No, um, there's something Iwant to get into, but it is
something that it's not.
As an instrumentalist, you know, you can't just be like oh yeah
, now I'm gonna write somelyrics, because this, when I've
(05:35):
had a go, they haven't been verygood, it's hard isn't it?
Geoff (05:38):
yeah, it's really hard.
I know you say you're inspiredby people, but how would that
translate into actual musicalterms if you would have to say
that was this certain riffythings or chord sequences, or
how could you put that intowords?
Camilla (05:51):
Well, there's one tune on my second album which is
based on a book of African folktales which my mom used to read
to me and I've actually got iton the bookshelf and the book is
called The People Could Fly andit's got all these tales of
animals in them and when I wasyounger I thought that's just
about animals, but actually it'sabout the animals take on the
(06:11):
roles of the slaves and theslave owners.
So it's actually is very deep.
This book and one of the tunesis about a turtle tapping the
land turtle and one of the tunesI wrote on the album and it's
based on this story there's afamine.
The turtle goes to see theunderlord and he gives him a
stick and he says if you tapthat three times, food will
(06:33):
appear, but you can't tap itmore than that.
So in the tune that I wroteI've got this riff which comes
three times.
People always like get a bitcaught out on because they
expect it to be twice and thenit's three times and that's the
whole thing of that.
Trying to mirror bits of thestory in the way I've written it
(06:54):
.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Geoff (06:55):
When you were developing as a soloist, as an improviser?
How did you get your vocabulary?
Did you transcribe things?
Where do you think yourvocabulary came from?
Your improvising vocabulary?
Camilla (07:07):
Definitely transcriptions.
I mean, I had Jean Toussaint asa teacher from quite an early
age.
I think I must have been 13,actually, when I first 13, 14,
when I first went for lessonswith him.
He was very scary at the timeand his big thing was
transcriptions.
And that's how I got into that.
It's kind of a magic thing,isn't it?
Geoff (07:28):
if you transcribe, you suddenly get better well, not
suddenly, but you definitely getbetter.
Yeah, it does take a little bit, if it was that easy.
Camilla (07:38):
It's not a magic trick, but there's this thing of that
deep listening that it seeps in.
Obviously, if you justtranscribe and you don't analyze
it, then there's limits as tohow yeah, how far, but that's
definitely something I, I loveto do.
Are are there um particularsolos that you could cite as
being a sort of a formativething for you?
(07:59):
Um, when I first startedtranscribing, I went to Dexter
because that was a way ofhearing the Bebop language in a
clearer way for me than, say,going straight to Parker,
because yeah, I think the thingwith Parker is it's not just the
language, it's phrasing.
That's quite.
Sometimes when you analyze itit's quite odd.
(08:19):
I mean, I did for mydissertation, which I don't
think they very much enjoyed,but I was looking at the kind of
influence of the clave rhythmon West African clave, on some
of Parker's phrasing, because Ifind it quite odd.
I think that's something that'squite distinct.
But anyways, that didn't goanywhere.
No, but the clave appears inevery kind of western music,
doesn't it?
It's everywhere.
Geoff (08:39):
That's quite distinct, but anyways, that didn't go
anywhere.
Yeah, but no, but the claveappears in every kind of western
music, doesn't it?
It's everywhere, it'severywhere.
Camilla (08:46):
Um, there's something particular with his, with the,
with his phrasing.
So I started with Dexter loadsof those classic um.
You know, Our Man in Paris wasone album.
I just was like, right, I'mgonna do the whole album.
Sonny Stitt um, I rememberSunny Side of the Street being
that raffle.
I've got to get go get thewhole thing down.
Um and um.
(09:07):
Vincent Herring became um was aobsession of mine for quite,
quite some time and then Idiscovered my absolute kind of
um idol, Kenny Garrett, and Istarted getting into that and
that Kenny's great because he'sgot such a vast kind of catalog.
I found um early recordings ofhim, you know, just playing
(09:30):
playing standards, but he'sreally young, and then you've
got all the different stages ofhis playing career.
Yeah, and there's something tobe taken from all of them, I
think, especially as an altoplayer yeah, yeah.
Did you always just play alto?
Geoff (09:41):
Did you play tenor before that?
Camilla (09:43):
I dabbled for about a month with tenor and realized I
didn't really like it.
I've thought about it in recentyears and I think it is because
when I was first listening tojazz, most of the people that I
was listening to that my dadliked were alto players and we
loved Jackie, Jackie McLean andSonny Step on alto.
So I think that's why I feellike I didn't want to do
(10:07):
anything else.
Geoff (10:08):
What was your process for extracting the information from
the solos that you heard?
Did you take licks out and didyou put those into your playing
at some stage?
Camilla (10:18):
The thing with the transcription.
At first, I find I've neverbeen someone to write it down
immediately, so I'm quite a slowtranscriber.
Even though I've been doing itfor years, I feel I'm just
slower at it.
I don't know why, but I like tojust get it down on the horn,
make sure I can play it in allcircumstances and speed it up,
(10:40):
and then I'll take little bits,put them through the keys and
then I mean it doesn't soundvery musical, does it like?
Geoff (10:47):
force it into tunes but that is obviously, but that's as
much of a technical exercise aswell, isn't it to do?
Yeah?
Camilla (10:53):
exactly and then modify it slightly, and then do that,
do it again through the keys andthen push it through.
Geoff (11:00):
That's fantastic.
When did you start composing?
Camilla (11:03):
I think it was 2013.
I did a gig with Courtney Pine.
He decided he wanted to do athing for women in jazz and it
was called Venus Warriors, and awhole load of people were on
there that I play with now, likeRosie Turton and Sheila Maurice
Gray, I think, was doing it, oh,and Nabi was doing, actually,
and they all had, I think theyall had pieces and.
(11:24):
I came, I really like um HoraceSilver's compositional style and
I came with Nica's Dream and itwas like, yeah, okay, this is
fine, but you, why do you nothave any of your own material?
Why are you not composing?
And I just said, well, I don'treally know how to do it and I
just thought, well, you justhave to start yeah and that was
how, the year later, 2014, waswhen I started my band and you
(11:49):
know I'm sorry to my band mateswho I still play with but yeah,
some of those early tunes werenot good, but it was a vehicle
for me to learn you know, yeah,yeah,
Geoff (12:00):
In your development, what part would you say jazz
standards played?
Camilla (12:05):
Um, I think a large part up until a certain time.
Um, so definitely, I went toTrinity whilst I was there and
afterwards, it's probably when Idid my second album and I
started getting more into thewriting, you know, because half
the gigs would be standards formy band and then or an original
(12:25):
that's basically written on astandard.
Well, I kind of moved away fromthat, I think, with the second
album and then with the thirdalbum I was like I really like
exploring my own stuff and Ithink again reference Kenny, but
I really find his compositionalstyle to be something that I've
really want to emulate.
(12:46):
I like the fact that his sound,his music, it's not accessible
in that oh, it's selling out,but it's like it reaches you and
It's catchy too, isn't it?
Yeah?
yeah, and some of it's kind oflike nursery rhyme-esque like
sing a song but when you go toplay over that, it's not that
easy, and that's the thing thatI like.
It's like something that'smaking music accessible without
(13:09):
it being.
I'm going to do this thing in13.
Everyone knows it's difficult.
None of the musicians areenjoying playing it, but, yes, I
can play over it, and that'ssomething I've kind of tried to
move away from, I suppose.
Geoff (13:21):
But as a composer, you're in control, aren't you?
You decide all that.
Camilla (13:25):
Yeah, exactly,
Geoff (13:26):
You're a little bit more in control of your own destiny,
aren't you?
Camilla (13:29):
Yeah, definitely I make them play the stuff I want to
play.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so that's been a greatpart of developing a bit more as
a composer, and I have a longway to go.
I'd say it's something that Idefinitely feel needs working on
.
Geoff (13:45):
It's like practicing instrument, isn't it doing
composing?
I compose a lot as well,actually, but um, you just get
better and better at it the moreyou do it, don't you?
Yeah?
Camilla (13:53):
I think so.
I think my piano playing hasimproved, because at first it
was just kind of me stabbingaway at like terrible, terrible
voicings and yeah, I've kind ofgot a little bit more
understanding.
Yeah, I think now
Geoff (14:13):
So I have some apps.
Brilliant.
I sent you some apps the otherday.
Have you, um?
Have you checked them out?
Have you you had a listen?
Camilla (14:20):
I have.
There's some amazing tunes onthere and also it's just great
that it's people in the rhythmsection that I actually you know
I saw Rod was.
Geoff (14:30):
Oh, Rod's on there, yeah, yeah, when he plays in my band.
So I was like this is just likeplaying with him on the gig.
It was so funny when I had Rodin the studio.
I don't think he actually knewwhat he was in for.
He's on probably 150 of thetunes.
But poor Rod was just like 'Areyou joking'?
But amazing, amazing, all witha click, all recorded with a
(14:51):
click.
You know that's the key in thestudio.
You know, to make it sound likeit's not with a click, yes,
Because it's all loopable, isn'tyou know?
Camilla (15:07):
it has to, it has to be .
It has to be for the use ofyeah, for people's usage, yeah,
but it's great and so good tohave an app with, with tracks
that sound like music you know,yeah, I mean, I know you've got
Aebersold stuff, but um well,that's where I grew up with
listening to Aebersold musicdefinitely, and there's some
great players on some of thoseas well.
Geoff (15:21):
Some of them speed up, and then some of them are a bit
dodgy, aren't they in places?
Camilla (15:24):
Yes, and I think I always find I hope I don't get
in trouble with , but some ofthe kind of Latin swingy ones,
like it always sounds a littlebit like yeah, okay, no.
Geoff (15:37):
I know.
So we're planning volume fiveand six at the moment.
So, wow, trying to get a littlebit more advanced as we go.
So you know, three and four hasKenny Wheeler and Pat Metheny
and some of these composers onit.
So if you have any suggestionsfor tunes, please let me know.
For five and six wow.
Camilla (15:54):
Well, I'm obviously going to say Kenny Garrett tune,
that's a great idea.
Geoff (15:58):
I'm going to do that, yeah, so I asked you to pick a
tune to play for us, and whatdid you choose?
Camilla (16:06):
I chose Peace by Horace Silver.
Why did you choose that?
I discovered Horace Silver whenI was at Trinity.
I found a book of his big bandarrangements, or larger band
arrangements, and I just reallylove his writing.
I think, that his pieces reallysound.
(16:27):
I think they're quite distinctand some of my favourite
standards have been written byhim.
Geoff (16:33):
And again, just like Kenny Garrett, they're very
catchy, aren't they, and veryhooky yeah they are yeah.
This is the backing track Ifyou want to stick your
headphones on.
And then let's just see ifyou've got a balance and I'm
going to have to turn your gaindown of your microphone.
What do you do for warming up?
Do you have a regular sort ofpractice routine?
What's your?
Do you have a daily thing or um?
Camilla (16:54):
yeah, well, I do.
Um, I I may manage to practicemost days.
I think Monday's the only daythat I can't practice because I
do a very long teaching day atschool.
But I have just recentlystarted using a drone.
Geoff (17:11):
How do you generate the drone, then when does that come
from YouTube, oh?
Camilla (17:16):
I didn't know you could do that.
Yeah, you can just search it up.
I'm always looking on theselike sax forums and they're
saying they do that forintonation and then I go through
the kind of overtones seriesand some days better than others
, depending on reed situation.
Geoff (17:35):
With a tuner, just to check your tuner.
Camilla (17:38):
I usually double-check um overtone with the actual um
note.
So I'll I'll just double checkthat and I'll match it um, and
that's I mean unfortunately.
Geoff (17:49):
Can you demonstrate that for me?
Camilla (17:58):
So it's quite different , yeah, and.
I'll spend time doing that.
I mean obviously fortunately itsounds like a foghorn to
everyone else.
But so I do that, and then Ilike to do scales in three
octaves so that my altissimofingerings are the most useful,
(18:19):
because it's all very wellhaving these fingerings are the
most useful, because it's allvery well having these
fingerings.
But then when you have somethingfast and you're kind of all
over the place it doesn't work,and that's the thing I remember
reading on an interview aboutBrecker and how he had this
whole system for altissimo,which I mean I haven't studied
in enough detail, really, andalso it's tenor, so it might be
(18:41):
so different, but I thought thatwas interesting, just being
able to like economical use offingers really yeah, to make the
top end much clearer and muchmore in tune, I suppose also
well, I mean, that's a struggle.
I don't, especially on alto,that's never, never, never fun,
but um, but just also to be ableto get up there and back down
(19:01):
so you can do phrases withaltissimo, which is what I'm
working on moment and it beingnatural rather than being like,
here's the altissimo a and thengoing off and do um so yeah, so
I do those um scales and filtersand then usually um a diatonic
exercise, um, and I'll do thatwith a metronome in all keys and
(19:25):
then I'll turn my attention towhatever.
Geoff (19:28):
And then you can put Quartet on and you have a choice
of 500 standards Exactly thereyou go there, we go.
Right.
Thank you, um, um Thank you?
(21:37):
Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous.
That's such an amazing tune,isn't it?
I was just listening to that,just thinking about how
differently A major sounds to Dflat major, how the different
tone centres.
Camilla (21:48):
Yeah, Do you know what I mean?
I know what you mean.
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
Geoff (21:52):
It's great yeah, let's just describe that tune so it's
a minor 2-5-1 to G minor andthen it goes to b major briefly
yes, it's got that that real.
And then to b flat major andthen a major and d flat major.
Yeah, it's gorgeous, isn't it?
Yeah, I've not really listenedto that tune very much before
Camilla (22:12):
It takes my brain a second, because obviously I'm in
a minor third below.
Yeah, like.
Geoff (22:16):
So for me when it goes to the, G flat yeah and then it
has the incidentally, sorry tointerrupt, you know you can
display the chords on here in eflat as well.
Camilla (22:26):
Oh yeah, it's a bind, isn't it having an instrument
that's I find it okay on chords,but it's the dots, it's someone
you know.
You get people that don'trealize that it's not in um.
You're not in c in then why isthat, though?
Geoff (22:41):
Why is that?
Why not just call C, C?
Huh?
Camilla (22:46):
I have no idea there is .
I saw, yeah, I was gonna get.
I really wanted to get one.
I thought I have too manysaxophones and then also be
weird to play an alto in c andthen go back to playing one
that's in a flat.
Geoff (23:00):
Oh oh, that was absolutely gorgeous.
How did it feel playing alongwith that backing track?
Did it feel okay?
Camilla (23:06):
It's great.
Yeah, it's great.
I'm really looking forward tosaying I've got this solo gig.
I very rarely do gigs on my ownfor that reason, because it's
hard finding backing tracks.
And also the last gig that Idid in this realm, in the
fashion world, for LondonFashion Week, I had to do one of
the sets on my own as duo, so Ihad to go into Logic on the
(23:31):
Aebersold ones and kind of getrid of that.
You know one, two one, two,three, four.
It just doesn't sell.
Geoff (23:39):
you know, actually, inside the app there's an
upgrade.
You can actually pay to haveall the stems as well.
Camilla (23:44):
Oh wow, now I'm really looking forward to actually
playing with those.
Geoff (23:48):
Are you someone who learns new tunes?
Do you like to learn newstandards
Camilla (23:51):
.
I've been trying to do that.
The thing with jazz, isn't it?
It's like if you don't keepgoing on jazz, it just goes.
Geoff (23:58):
Unfortunately, that's because it's hard, isn't it?
Camilla (24:00):
It's really hard and I definitely feel that's something
that you know I've been tryingto force myself to do that.
I mean, you don't always havethe time to do it, but it's as
nice as a project.
You know to kind of do newtunes, yeah.
Geoff (24:17):
So what's the gig you're doing?
Is it for fashion or something.
Camilla (24:28):
Yes, it's for a fashion house, an italian fashion house
, and they are doing an eventand they want music.
Myself and my piano player,Renato, we played in Milan about
a month ago um, and that wasvery Milan Fashion Week.
Yeah, that was very cool and,um, yeah, we play as duo, but
they want this now as just asolo, which is quite scary, I
think.
Yeah.
It's a scary thing, I think asa sax player.
Geoff (24:49):
Is it a concert or something?
Camilla (24:51):
I don't think anyone's going to be listening to my
music.
Geoff (24:54):
Well, just have a nice time and just play some
standards.
I'm just going to have a greattime playing some standards
which.
Camilla (24:58):
I never get to do.
I had a great time playing somestandards which I never get to
do.
Geoff (25:05):
I've got a few questions for you, if that's all right.
Maybe some of them are easierto answer than others.
Okay, so the first one iswhat's your favourite album?
Camilla (25:13):
It has to be one.
It's difficult, isn't it?
Between Songbook, Ken Garrettand actually Bar Talk, which is
by Jeff 'Tain' Watts, and thenyou've got all the classic ones
that I love, but I'm justthinking in terms of what I
really, because Bar Talk, I loveit because it's got Mr JJ,
(25:34):
which has got that amazingsaxophone duel between Branford
and Brecker.
Geoff (25:40):
Has that got that blues on it?
That, yes, it does, I think itdoes.
Camilla (25:47):
Yeah, I think that's brilliant I, I just yeah, I mean
I literally just put it on andit's like Mr JJ, and it's just
so good, oh so good yeah so Ithink actually maybe that may
top it, even though I love Kennyyeah, yeah,
It's difficult to choose afavourite album, isn't it?
I mean?
Yeah when you hear thatquestion, maybe your first
impulse is probably the bestanswer.
But yeah, I mean we know thatthere's so many albums that have
(26:09):
influenced us yeah Is there afavourite musician, alive or
dead, that you would like toplay with?
Going in the same vein, I'd love to play with Tain.
Um, I'd love to have been that,just that little rhythm section
that Branford used, and I kindof you know, Kenny
I saw that band actually in the90s.
I remember when they're in theheight of that thing with Kenny
(26:32):
Kirkland yes, yeah, yeah I sawthem at Ronnie's wow actually in
the 90s yeah wow, well, thatwould be my dream rhythm section
.
Yeah yeah, it was incredible,wasn't it?
Kenny Kirkland is such a legend.
It's very sad that he passed so early.
Geoff (26:47):
Yeah, all of them amazing .
Has there been a highlight ofyour career to date, a best gig
perhaps?
Camilla (26:53):
I was very, very lucky to have sat in with Marcus
Miller on a few occasions.
Wow, the first time we were onthe same circuit and we were
supposed to be playing at afestival together in France, but
he wanted to meet me on thisother festival where I was not
supposed to be joining him.
Yeah, and I was like, oh mygosh, and he was so lovely.
Geoff (27:13):
How did that come about then?
How did that meeting come about?
Camilla (27:17):
I think it's his manager is friends with my agent
and they'd sent him a video orsomething and he said, oh yeah,
I'd love to for her to come, youknow, sit in or something.
And yeah, he was great.
And actually when I met him,you know, we had this thing and
I went into the room, Then Ileft and I was like, oh my gosh,
it's straight into MarcusMiller.
And then his manager called meback and he was like he wants to
(27:39):
speak to you again and I said,oh gosh, and he was like I'm
really sorry, I think I calledyou Camellia instead of Camilla.
I was just like you can call mewhatever is fine, we were
opening for them.
We were like, yeah, we feltgood about our gig, that's cool.
And I had actually gone to thetoilet.
When I came out the toilet, myband were like he just called
you on the stage.
(27:59):
He's just, he's called you upon the stage.
He's like we told him you werein the toilet, I was like, oh no
, so I had to, kind of I wentoff and I was just terrified.
That was great but and I satlucky to have sat with him in
Europe a few times after that,but the main one was at Festival
Hall for the London JazzFestival in November, just gone,
(28:21):
and that was because that washome ground and with Marcus,
with Marcus, and it was amazingbecause for me his saxophone
player is is amazing.
His altissimo, just ridiculous.
I don't understand how he's justso controlled and you know, to
be able to play next to him, andI just learned the whole set
(28:43):
yeah and I think the idea was Ijust come on for one.
But then and I kind of went toleave and then Marcus said I
know you can stay on, so Iplayed about four tunes, and it
was that was probably myhighlight.
It was just great, I mean it'sso exciting.
Geoff (28:58):
Oh, it's amazing.
What a great, great experience.
What was the last concert thatyou attended?
Camilla (29:04):
Kenny Garrett.
Yeah.
It was Kenny Garrett I went to.
Embarrassingly for me, he wasat Ronnie Scott's, I think,
Thursday through to Saturday andI went every night.
Geoff (29:15):
Do you know him?
Have you met him before?
Camilla (29:17):
Yeah, I have met him.
I mean he now.
Yeah, I think he tolerates me,because it's just like what's
her again
Geoff (29:22):
Fangirl yeah.
What would you say to yourmusical weakness?
Camilla (29:27):
Oh gosh, loads of things um, making sure the
horn's in tune.
I mean, I play old saxes.
That's always a struggle.
Um, sometimes more successfulthan others.
Yeah, ridiculously fast tempossometimes I find that to be
still kind of working, to beable to think quickly and to be
(29:49):
able to play musically as welland I guess just hard tunes,
hard music.
Geoff (29:57):
Do you ever get nervous on stage?
Definitely, I actually just hadan experience.
Hard tunes, hard music, yeah,yeah, hard music, of course.
Yeah, Do you?
ever get nervous on stage?
Camilla (30:03):
Definitely.
I actually just had anexperience.
I wasn't even on stage a coupleof days ago and you have these
experiences that you're like, ohit's gutting.
A friend of mine's got and he'sgot an amazing big band.
Shout out to Dan Casimir, hisbig band's project.
His writing's amazing.
But I think I was flustered.
I arrived to the thing late andI just had a panic attack.
(30:24):
I've never had that and when Icame to solo I just couldn't.
I didn't even know what Iplayed.
I know it wasn't good.
It was like I was outside of mybody observing it.
I think it threw me because Ihave now been playing for 10
years, so you don't imagine thatthat would happen in a
(30:44):
rehearsal space.
And, as I said, I got up withMarcus Miller and was like yeah,
let's go for it.
Geoff (30:49):
What was the cause of that you think?
Camilla (30:50):
Probably stress from everyday life and also, I think,
stress from being late.
It was the reading aspect,which I consider myself an okay
reader.
I don't think that's my, youknow I'm not a NYJO reader.
So I you know, I like to have abit of time on it, and I think
(31:11):
it was just this pressure ofmaybe being in a situation like
that which I hadn't been in fora little while, and there being
loads of musicians yeah some ofthem that I didn't know right,
okay I don't know, it was verystrange.
Geoff (31:24):
How do you feel when you play in front of other musicians
, especially in other musiciansthat you respect?
How does that affect yourplaying?
Camilla (31:30):
Oh, it definitely makes you nervous.
There's always that vibe oflike oh, and it takes me a
little while, but it's somethingthat I've worked on quite a bit
, because I think when thathappens, it's like you're not in
the moment, are you You'rethinking about?
I wonder what they're thinkingof my playing.
Yeah, I know, and then you'vemade a mistake.
Oh no, I've made a mistake.
You're thinking about themistake and then the moment's
gone and you've not.
Geoff (31:51):
Yeah, it's hard, that's really hard, isn't it?
Yeah.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Camilla (32:00):
Probably, just a simple ham and cheese.
Geoff (32:05):
Excellent.
What about a favourite movie?
Camilla (32:08):
Oh, that's easy.
I make everybody watch this,Splash.
Geoff (32:16):
Oh, that's the Daryl, the Daryl Hannah mermaid one.
Camilla (32:18):
I'm obsessed with mermaids.
I've written so many tunesabout mermaids, and I found
another one.
Geoff (32:24):
Did you speak to Tara Minton?
You know Tara.
Yeah, she made an album ofsomething to do with mermaids,
didn't she?
Did she?
Yeah, okay, I'll check that out, for definitely.
Yes, listen to her.
What about a favourite venue?
Camilla (32:35):
Oh, okay, I would say UK it has to be Ronnie's, going
to the jam sessions, meetingother musicians, etc.
But outside of the UK it has tobe Club Jasmine in Warsaw,
Poland, because that place isamazing, it's for musicians,
it's in the Nobu Hotel and theyput you up in the Nobu Hotel, so
(32:58):
that doesn't hurt, you get thelift down from your room to the
to the venue, so that's great.
When we got to the green room,there was the usual rider plus
all these other things and a PS5which my bass player and
drummer were like.
I mean, they didn't want to dothe gig, they were still playing
.
Whatever it was they wereplaying the sound is great on
the gig and then afterwards theywere just like the bar is yours
(33:21):
.
Yeah, I mean, when do we everget people saying that it's
usually like here's you knowTesco's Meal Deal, and that's it
Geoff (33:30):
I played at a few different places like that, too,
where you just you're in thehotel and you're playing in the
basement.
Yeah, in Stockholm, I think itwas, there's a hotel that's
owned by one of the guys fromABBA.
Wow, I was playing there withJamie Cullum.
A concert theatre in the hotel,wow.
Yeah, you can imagine, can'tyou?
Camilla (33:48):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Geoff (33:50):
What about a favourite country or a city that you like
to visit?
Camilla (33:54):
I'm going to be disloyal to my Nigerian heritage
.
As much as I like Nigeria, I'mnot going to say Nigeria, I'm
actually going to say, uh,Portugal, okay, um, I really
like going to Porto.
I know that sounds very bougie,but, um, me and my mum have
been going kind of regularlyevery year and it's just great.
We took a trip on the DouroValley thing.
(34:16):
We just went on this boat andthen we moored up and it was
local wine and food as much asyou could eat and drink.
That was pretty lovely.
Geoff (34:23):
Does your mum live in London?
Camilla (34:25):
she lives about 30 minutes away from me so yeah,
she's a another west Londonperson
Geoff (34:31):
Excellent, excellent, okay so final question what's
your favorite chord?
Camilla (34:35):
Do you know what, I write with a lot of these chords
, and then I, I this is what Ikind of fell off the wagon on
that big band thing, sus.
I love a sus chord.
I just think that's that soundof a sus chord is probably.
It's so hip and there's so manypossibilities, I think, in
terms of um playing over it
Geoff (34:57):
Um nerdy notation question.
Would you prefer, like B, flattriad?
Camilla (35:02):
Yeah.
Geoff (35:02):
Over C.
Camilla (35:03):
Yeah.
Geoff (35:04):
Or C sus.
Camilla (35:05):
If I was playing, with my terrible voicings, on the
piano, I'd probably go for theslash, but for in terms of as
playing.
Geoff (35:12):
You like to see it written as a seventh chord?
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
So what have you got coming up?
You got some some good stuffcoming up, interesting.
Camilla (35:20):
So what have you got coming up?
You've got some good stuffcoming up.
Yeah, on Thursday I'm going toBlue Night Milan.
Back again there, that would benice, that's with your own group
, with my band Fabulous.
And then on Saturday I've gotthe big band concert with Daniel
Casimir at Cheltenham JazzFestival.
Geoff (35:36):
Brilliant.
Camilla (35:37):
Yeah, and then we've got various things coming up.
So yeah yeah, should be funfabulous.
Geoff (35:42):
Well, good luck with everything and thanks for your
time thanks very much and I'llsee you very soon see you soon,
bye, bye
Thank you for making it to theend of another podcast.
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The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
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(36:04):
another level.
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