June 12, 2025 • 29 mins
Geoff is in London’s Waterloo district to meet with the multi award-winning jazz singer, broadcaster, producer, actor and comedian Ian Shaw.
What does it take to build a career spanning jazz vocals, comedy, acting, and broadcasting? In this intimate conversation, Ian invites us into his creative world, tracing a fascinating journey from Welsh choir boy to one of Britain's most versatile artists.
He reveals how an unconventional audition in full punk regalia launched his early career in piano bars before discovering jazz through the most unexpected source—David Bowie's album ‘Hunky Dory’. With refreshing candour, he shares how this discovery led him to explore the jazz vocal tradition through Betty Carter, Mark Murphy, and Billie Holiday, developing a unique approach to improvisation that continues to evolve even at the age of 63.
The conversation takes fascinating turns as Ian discusses balancing multiple creative pursuits throughout his career. From his classical training and brass band beginnings to recent work with contemporary classical composer Mark-Anthony Turnage, he demonstrates an artistic curiosity that refuses to be confined to a single genre.
Perhaps most revealing are Ian’s reflections on career highlights—performing with Quincy Jones, touring with Cedar Walton, sharing the stage with jazz legends he once only knew through vinyl discoveries. When asked about musical weaknesses, he confesses to secretly practicing flugelhorn “…into the pillow," a charming glimpse into the continued growth of an artist who never stops evolving.
Whether discussing his favourite chord (E13 with a flat 9) or demonstrating his spontaneous improvisational skills on Fats Waller's ‘Ain't Misbehavin’’ (with music accompaniment from the Quartet app and ‘lyrics’ courtesy of Andrew O’Hagan’s novel ‘Caledonian Road’ open at page 112!), Ian displays the versatility and genuine passion for music that has made him a beloved fixture on the UK jazz scene.
Whether you’re a jazz aficionado, an aspiring musician or you just love stories of passion pursued without compromise by hardworking artists, this episode offers rare insights into the creative mind of a true musical polymath.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:00):
Hello again, podcats.
This is Geoff Gascoyne, Hopeyou're well.
Today I'm going up to centralLondon, to Waterloo actually.
I'm going to see a very oldfriend of mine, Ian Shaw, singer
, improviser, broadcaster andcomedian.
I'm looking forward to it verymuch, so here we go.
Announcement (00:17):
The Quartet app for iOS.
Taking your jazz play along toanother level.
Geoff (00:42):
Thanks for inviting me round.
It's my absolute pleasure.
What a wheeze.
So you're busy doing so manythings, aren't you?
The career in singing, andyou're a comedian as well,
aren't you?
Ian (00:50):
I cut my teeth on two scenes, the sort of piano bar
scene, so just getting gigs whenI was a student.
You know playing piano, notsinging, actually just playing
poppy stuff.
You know just background musicin restaurants and things.
You know just background musicin restaurants and things.
And then I got an agent calledJack Fallon and he started this
agency called because he saw, Ithink probably I mean it had
been going a long time before Imet him.
I auditioned down in Pizza onthe Park, so I saw it in The
(01:15):
Stage, 'stage on televisiontoday and it said wanted piano
bar entertainers and I didn'tknow what that was really.
So I went along to the auditionin a kilt, Doc Martin boots,
full makeup, punky sort of bikerjacket.
I was still at college, so itwould have been 1981, I think
and he'd already been runningthis wheeze where he realised
(01:35):
that he could put singerpianists in hotels and wine bars
and create a really nice rosterof people.
And he really looked after usall as well.
I did the audition.
There was roster of people andhe looked, really looked after
us all as well.
You know, I did the audition.
There was one woman.
There must have been 30 to 40men of all different shapes and
(01:55):
sizes and you know ages.
All dressed in DJs and I thoughtwell, that's it, I rock up in
my kilt with more eyeliner thanmy then girlfriend Susan and um,
I just did my thing and I justthought he's not going to like
me.
I remember what I did.
Actually I did.
I did Your Song, Elton John.
I did Willkommen, Bienvenuefrom Cabaret and I did Ain't
Misbehavin right, which I lovesinging.
(02:15):
You said you want to go toSweden and I went yeah so I went
to Sweden and played in a hotelin Stockholm and then that was
it then for four or five yearsbetween auditioning for acting
jobs and doing the odd comedything.
But yeah, I cut my teeth hereon the comedy circuit.
Geoff (02:29):
When you start to sing, did you feel like you were a
singer or was it?
How did it work?
Ian (02:34):
Well, I sang in choirs in school, Okay because you're from
Wales, aren't you?
Geoff (02:37):
Yeah, did you grow up with that then?
Ian (02:46):
Yeah, sort, two of my uncles were in male voice choirs
, which is a great Welshtradition, you know, and I was
in a brass band with my dad, soI was.
I never knew what it was likenot to be able to read music.
I can't really learn anythingfrom a tape, you know.
I've got to see the music.
Recently I did a thing Mark-Anthony Turnage
Geoff (03:01):
Would have been, What a classical?
?
Ian (03:03):
Yeah, it was a piece for a reduced orchestra.
It was during COVID and he hadthis idea of writing.
He's always wanted to writesomething for me to sing and it
was a poem called Black Milk byPaul Celan.
So anyway, Mark- AnthonyTurnage took this poem and he
set it.
It's like I don't know 15minutes tops 15 minutes and it's
a through sung thing reallyhard.
(03:26):
And he said, oh, just beyourself on it, you know 15
minutes and it's a through sungthing really hard.
And he said oh, just be yourselfon it.
You know classic, Mark.
I've got a little place down inKent and I took myself off
there for two weeks to learn it.
I wanted to be off the page andlearn it.
You know like an actor wouldlearn a script.
And I did learn it and it wasduring COVID.
So all the orchestra, we wereall baffled.
You know plastic separationthings.
I loved it.
(03:46):
I really, really enjoyed it.
It reminded me of doing stuff,having to do stuff at college
but really not wanting to do itbecause it was college but I
could not have learnt it off atape.
That really pushed me in theway that doing an acting job
pushes me.
Geoff (04:00):
Do you call him Mar?
Antony, I call him Mark.
Do you call him Mark?
Ian (04:01):
Anthony Antony, I call him Mark.
Do you want to call him?
No, I call him Mark.
Geoff (04:04):
Anthony it Mark Antony Turnage?
Ian (04:05):
I'm not sure.
Anthony No, it's Mark.
Geoff (04:07):
Anthony Turnage.
Ian (04:08):
I think this is his mother's name.
Geoff (04:09):
Like the guy that killed Caesar.
Yeah, Mark.
Ian (04:11):
Anthony.
Yeah, this is Mark.
Geoff (04:13):
Turnage.
So when did you startimprovising?
When did you get into?
Ian (04:21):
jazz?
David Bowie, Hunky Dory and Ilistened to something and I
thought what's that?
What David that?
What style is this?
Geoff (04:29):
Funny you should say that I was listening with Ruby last
night to Aladdin Sane.
That's the one right at the endwhere there's all this
avant-garde piano.
It's Mike Garson.
Ian (04:36):
It's incredible, and at the end he just goes like this yeah
.
Geoff (04:41):
Right at the end, doesn't it?
But it's so out, isn't it yeah?
Ian (04:44):
That's on that track.
That's incredible, it's AladdinSane, isn't it?
Geoff (04:48):
Yeah, ha ha, ha, ha ha.
Yeah, that's the one, yeah.
Ian (04:51):
The Lord Roses.
Oh, it's amazing, brilliant.
Every track on that's amazing.
So Honky Dory I heard firstActually was disturbing, because
(05:11):
it's quite disturbing.
But then when I heard HunkyDory fill your heart with love
today, I think, well, that'sjazz, isn't it it is.
And then listening to DavidBowie do things live, and how he
altered his own um phrasing andaltered his own the notes that
he picked on his own yeah songsand he always went to.
I noticed it with Joni Mitchellas well that at the end of a
phrase he always went to like asecond.
So he'd go um, you know, likeum.
I I would be king.
(05:33):
Yeah, yeah, the original was Iwill be king yeah, I was
thinking that's different yeah,so that was the first thing.
I thought, oh, if you sing, andyou sing sort of poppy music,
you can.
And then I thought some of myparents record oh, I see, that's
how that works then.
So then Mel
Geoff (05:48):
Torme may not Sinatra actually, so Mel Torme, Sarah
VaughnI mean Sinatra did that a little
bit when changing.
Yeah, not very much so did he?
Ian (05:56):
no, Sinatra was all about the timbre, the timing, the
storytelling.
Yeah, uh, keeping it nice andswinging and the ballads are
really the I mean, it's Sinatrait's the best, it's the sound
amazing, you know but and thenand then Billie Holiday, Betty
Carter, Mark Murphy, in thatorder.
When I was at college I used totrawl the record shops, you
(06:19):
know, Oxford Street, down inthose dirty basements and
massive basements of shops withkind of imports with ticks out
the top of the records and.
I bought everything.
I spent all my grant on records.
Really, I remember buyingBitches Brew because I loved the
cover.
Announcement (06:34):
And.
Ian (06:34):
I'd never really known what the music was, and it
completely changed my wholefocus on how you could make
music you know.
So yeah, and Sarah Vaughan liveat Ronnie Scott's.
Carmen Karma McRae, TheloniousMonk.
Carmen that is anotheraccidental purchase.
Geoff (06:49):
And then Rah R-A-H.
Ian (06:51):
Mark.
Murphy, I thought what's this?
Who's he?
Because, he looked not likeyou'd expect him to look?
Geoff (07:01):
Was he like a role model to you?
Oh, completely, still is, stillis still is.
Ian (07:05):
If I'm singing with a band, he is.
If I'm on my own, I'm more sortof cabaret, more sort of
stopping and starting comedy,more bluesy, more poppy folky.
But when I'm with a band,especially a trio, not
necessarily a section How didyou get a vocabulary for jazz
then?
How did I do it?
I did it very, very suddenlyand very quickly.
(07:26):
I went and bought the Realbooks and I used to go to you
know, there's true campgentlemen in Chappell's music
Music With with the polo necksand the rings.
Do you remember them?
I used to say have you gotVolume Two yet?
Geoff (07:39):
Under the desk Under the desk, you know.
Ian (07:42):
Dirty books, dirty books Under the desk.
Under the desk you know Dirtybooks, dirty books, yeah.
And you'd be passing with likethe best part of them, 35, 40
quid.
Geoff (07:48):
So were they illegal then ?
Yeah, of course they were.
Ian (07:50):
I don't remember that I just photocopied and then spiral
bound, wasn't?
I that's right yeah.
I learn songs very, very quickly.
I can learn the muscularity ofan A you know.
So when I first heard DetourAhead, I remember it was almost
like a photographic memory ofthe melody and the chords,
because it was so unusual so themore unusual a song is, the
(08:10):
easier for me is to learn, youknow.
Geoff (08:13):
You've done some acting as well, haven't you?
I've done loads of acting, yeah, how did you get into that then
?
Where did that start?
Ian (08:19):
You know, I come from a really working class area,
working class education.
We didn't know that you couldgo to a kibbutz or have a gap
year.
My dad just went OK, what'sthis called then?
Ok, he didn't talk like thatbecause he's Welsh, that's
Stepney Green.
I'd just applied for all thecolleges.
I got into Trinity, King's,Goldsmiths and RADA and it was
(08:44):
like do I do music or do I dodrama?
Got into both of those thingsand I just went King's.
And you know why I did it?
It's because King's was on theriver and I really liked the
look of it.
Geoff (08:51):
You wanted a good view.
I wanted a good view fromcollege, and it was near Covent
Garden.
Ian (08:55):
I hadn't really heard of Soho in those days, right At 17.
I came down here.
I was barely 18 when I came toLondon, but did you still sort
of keep in touch with the actingside.
Geoff (09:07):
You had the two things going at the same time, right,
oh yeah.
Ian (09:09):
Yeah, I did Othello at university.
I did plays.
I was part of the Ludd's LondonUniversity Drama SOC.
I went to Edinburgh.
We did a play up there.
We did Cabaret the Musical withmy now manager, Charlotte, who
played Fraulein Schneider inCabaret.
I constantly did it.
And then I did Fringe TheatreRep, did some films, did a great
(09:34):
film with Juliet Stevenson, TimSporkle, Pier Point that was
much later.
Um, I did, yeah, plays, radiothings always, always maybe one
thing a year.
Now, one thing a year, Charlotte, my manager said to me recently
.
She said she said you should,we should, you should do more.
Acting, 63 years old, you know,in, in.
Geoff (09:56):
June 63 in June.
Ian (09:59):
So I don't know whether it's too late to do that.
I've been offered somethingthis year which I'm considering
doing.
I don't know yet Because it's achunk out of your gigging life
and also financially it's verydifferent to gigging, because
gigging we can be lucky and geta very well-paid one-off gig
which will be two weeks actingwork.
But I love acting, I love words, I love playing, I love being
(10:21):
directed.
So I wish I could do more of itreally, but I've left it too
late really.
I'm not really known as anactor.
I'm known as a musician andoccasional comedian, cabaret
singer, broadcaster and thenprobably at the bottom of that,
would be actor, I think.
Geoff (10:39):
Is it difficult to balance all those things
nowadays?
Ian (10:42):
Not enough hours in the day and even then, sometimes when
I've got, I can't have days off.
I'm hopeless.
If I've got a day off, I don'tknow what to do with myself.
I've always got something.
I mean books, trying to writesongs, doing stuff.
I need to do something everyday.
Really, I'm very good atprocrastinating.
Geoff (11:01):
It doesn't sound like you have much time for that, do you
oh?
Ian (11:04):
yeah.
I mean I've done.
You know, this week I'm tryingto write some songs for a new
project.
I've recorded a Sondheim album,that's not out yet.
So 13 Sondheim songs BecauseI've always wanted to record
them and I met him years ago.
Mark Murphy really put me ontoSondheim songs.
There's a wonderful four CDcollection of Sondheim by jazz
(11:28):
musicians on ECM.
Geoff (11:29):
It's great wow, check that out.
It's very nice, is that a?
Ian (11:32):
recent thing no it's about 15 years old.
I think, okay, yeah, it's about15 years old.
I think, okay, yeah, it'slovely.
It's very weird making albumsnowadays, because it's a
different animal, isn't it?
Geoff (11:42):
Do you still make CDs, actual CDs?
Ian (11:44):
Yeah, you do, yeah, and they sell at gigs only yeah.
Because I think people thinkwell, it's a tenner, if I've
paid 20-odd quid to come and seeto hear some music, then I
might just have a momento, youknow.
It's a certain it's eitherreally young couples.
At my gigs they're really oddSort of young couples in their
(12:04):
early 20s.
Geoff (12:05):
You haven't thought about making T-shirts or anything
like that.
Announcement (12:08):
T-towels.
Ian (12:08):
Claire Teal's got a Teal Towel.
A teal, that's a great idea.
We sell jam and pickle, really,yeah, for charity, because I
support refugee charities.
So every year Charlotte, mymanager, she's down in the shed
stirring a great pot.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
Yeah, we sell them for like afiver and every album I've done
she makes the, she does a pun on.
(12:30):
So The Theory of Jam is one ofthem.
Uh, I did an album of FranLandesman songs Ghosting, jam
session, yeah, jam session.
And she puts the label of theactual album on with the renamed
thing.
You know great idea, but we dothat for the refugee charity.
Fiver a pop and people love itwho doesn't want jam.
So can we talk about my apps?
(12:50):
Four volumes now are out.
Yeah, 500 tunes altogether.
Geoff (12:53):
wow, you're so.
Can we talk about my apps?
Four volumes now are out.
Yeah, 500 tunes altogether.
Wow, you're quite new to it,aren't you?
Ian (13:02):
Yeah.
Geoff (13:02):
I gave it to you recently , yeah.
So I asked you to pick a tune,and I think you mentioned it
earlier.
What tune?
Well, I chose Ain'tMisbehavin', because I knew
you'd ask me how I would getinto starting singing.
It was the first jazz thing Iever learned.
You've done this before, haven't you?
Yeah, I've done it before.
Ian (13:17):
I learned how to play it.
I couldn't believe how old therecording that I learned it from
was.
It was very old, like 30s old,like Fats Waller or something.
Geoff (13:27):
Yeah, Fats Waller.
Yeah, what we're going to do,stick your headphones on.
We're in the key of A flat, Ibelieve.
Hello, I'm going to put myheadphones on too.
Ian (13:38):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Q1 and Q2 by Geoff
Gascoyne.
Geoff (13:46):
So you've done a lot of broadcasting.
You're used to this right.
Have you been interviewed likethis much?
Because you're usually on theother side.
Ian (13:53):
I'm on the other side yeah, if.
I've got a record out.
I've got a record out, yeah,something like I've interviewed
some massive legends, and one ortwo of them have been.
I almost had to just shut upshop and leave.
You know, Al Jarreau, PattiAustin, everyone.
You know Van Morrison, he waslovely yeah and he was a great.
He was a great interviewee.
(14:13):
All I wanted to do was talkabout music with him.
Geoff (14:16):
The key of A flat.
You're not going to sing thetune and I've got two choruses
to sing.
Ian (14:21):
You've got two choruses to sing and none of them can be the
tune.
Yeah, can I use something?
That other words then I'vealways got like three or four
books on the go now, but we aresitting in my sort of in my
music room, in my sort of in mymusic room, come library, come
sleeping room.
We're actually in the bedroom.
Yes, we're in the bedroom.
So I'm reading Annie Erno'sbook The Years, which I really
(14:43):
enjoy and I'm also readingAndrew Hagen's book Caledonian
Road.
Geoff (14:46):
Okay, which one do you want?
We'll have Caledonia Road.
Yeah, and we'll have page 112.
Ian (14:53):
Okay, Caledonian Road page 100.
Second paragraph, please 12,second paragraph 112.
Okay, oh, this is excitingbecause I don't think I've got
that far yet.
Geoff (15:05):
Have you All right, are you ready?
Yeah, here we go.
Ian (15:15):
Standing in the hall, Campbell felt positive.
It was one of those brightevenings in the country when
everything seems well.
The birds were singing as thesetting sun struck, the
mullioned windows giving hope,Hindoclée had the dusty,
resplendent pattern of centuries.
(15:35):
The candles went all the wayback to Flodden and they had the
musketry to prove it.
Oh yeah, gleaming darkly fromthe walls above the tapestries
and busts.
In the drawing room, Morios andHarkness just held on the red
damask wallpaper and themultiple sofas were backed with
(15:57):
tables crowded with familypictures no children, alas, but
adults choked in uniforms orpearls.
A number of people stood in theroom, but even Campbell walked
alone to the drinks table.
They always had these tableseverywhere, with tins of tonic
water, tomato juice, stacked up,cheap whiskeys and old tumblers
(16:19):
.
He put a gin and looked up at acabinet of books A full run of
Trollops bound in red leather.
At the end on its own was acopy of Campbell's The Mail.
He surveyed the room and took adeep breath.
The Duke had been off his head,Campbell thought, since Cannon
(16:41):
turned forty-five and Antonyreleased.
Their inability to produce anheir meant the Duke might die
Within.
Such things can corrupt you.
He was all of a sudden besidehim.
The Duke dressed in aridiculous narrow jacket and
white linen trousers above apair of slippers.
(17:03):
I have to confess.
He said I still ain't read thisbook of yours.
Too much work, if you ask me.
That's idiotic, Tony, I speakas a writer.
Of course you do.
He touched Campbell's arm asthey turned towards the others.
I'm afraid I'm rather dependingon you tonight.
The Duke said Okay, we got somecrashes.
Geoff (17:29):
That's great.
Yeah, the words didn't reallymatter to me.
Nah, didn't have any idea whatyou were going on about, to be
honest, but the shape of theimprovising and the melody was
great.
Ian (17:40):
It was quite bluesy, wasn't it, I suppose?
Some blues in there yeah, yeah,the words felt very different
because I'm a big fan of AndrewHagan, you know.
He's a genius and he writesthese incredibly dense character
based books, you know and thisone's.
This one's set in London, youknow, it's just wonderful.
But I wasn't really, because Iknow who those characters are.
(18:02):
Because I'm, you can see whereI am in the book.
It's not that far away fromwhat I've just done, but I
wasn't really thinking about howthat bore any relevance to what
the narrative was so far.
Announcement (18:14):
So that's interesting, isn't it, Paul, or
any?
Ian (18:15):
relevance to what the narrative was so far.
So that's interesting, isn't it?
Paul Gambaccini, who's a reallygood mate of mine.
I've known him for years.
He's apart from being a veryknowledgeable kind of guru.
You know he knows everythingabout pop music and jazz as well
.
And he's written a beautifulbook called Love Letters.
It's an old book now it's about28 years old, I think it is and
it's based on seven people inhis life that made a great
(18:37):
impression on him.
Some of them now are dead, so Ithink there's only one of them
left.
So we just got talking and Ijust thought they're so honest
and yet they're kind of redolentand rich and beautiful.
So I've been trying to write 14songs out of seven chapters.
You know the characters are allnames Love Letters.
You've got an introduction,which in itself is good letters,
uh, you've got an introduction,which in itself is good.
And then you've got Henry,Scott, David, Steven, George
(18:59):
Terry and Chris, and Chris isthe lead singer of Kajagoogoo.
What, basically?
What I do is I read the chapterand then I try to write a song
based on what I've just read bymemory.
Then I go back to try and getthe essence of each chapter into
a song structure.
Geoff (19:18):
Are these unrequited love letters?
Ian (19:20):
Yeah, they've all got different flavours.
One of them is written withabsolute venom by someone who
really, really messed him aroundand lied, and that's a really
these people that he's hadrelationships?
Yes, they are okay, and they goright back to when he was a
little boy, uh, north of NewYork, uh, when he went to school
and the first kind of crush hehad uh, not all of them are
(19:42):
sexual partners.
So he's got there's two friendsin there as well, and they've
all got different flavors, youknow, know, they've got
different emotions.
One of them is rueful, one ofthem is really venomous.
One of them is you know, thelast line of it is I can't
believe how much I miss you.
That's the last line.
We've got a meeting at theweekend to try and get some sort
(20:03):
of mise-en-scene, to try andget some sort of plot, and we've
come up with some ideas, whichis basically a young man, a
singer we know exactly who we'regoing to have to sing it as
well A young guy called MattKent, who's brilliant, and he
said he'd do it.
Geoff (20:21):
So, between some dialogue , So you wouldn't sing it
yourself then?
No, it's not for me.
Ian (20:27):
Which is really a much more enjoyable way of doing things.
I write better.
If I know it's, it's not for me.
I think it would be lovely tohave a trio a singer and a set
and lighting, so quite simple.
So really it's.
It's a one-person show, I think, and he finds the letters in a
(20:47):
box and then I can't really giveyou the spoiler, but there's an
ending which, hopefully, isquite shocking.
So this character, this youngman who's barely 26 now, he's a
New York singer-songwritercalled Matt Kent, who I've
worked with.
So it's at a very, very earlystage.
We might even just do it as agig, we don't know Putting on a
(21:09):
show is needs money.
Geoff (21:10):
There's a lot of money.
You know that's going to be agreat project.
Hope so, um, hope so, yeah,yeah, good luck with that, thank
you very much, thank you.
Ian (21:16):
I'll pass on your, your, your, your good wishes to the
man himself.
Geoff (21:20):
On Sunday and we're having lots to do, yeah, yeah so
, to finish off, I've got a fewquestions, a few yeah.
So do you have a favouritealbum?
Ian (21:36):
Oh, God, it's always hard, that isn't?
Geoff (21:38):
it.
Ian (21:39):
I think I'm going to have to say Hejira by Joni Mitchell,
because every time I listen toit I hear something new.
I've never heard music like it.
I didn't even realise therewasn't a kit playing at one
point.
I was so sort of hypnotised bythe.
Every song is completelydifferent.
Every setting is different.
She almost sings differently onevery one as well.
(21:59):
Either that or any recording ofthe Quartet for the End of Time
, Olivier Messiaen.
Geoff (22:06):
Quite a diverse couple of albums there.
Do you have a favouritemusician, alive or dead, that
you would like to play with?
Ian (22:13):
Oh, that's another difficult one, really, isn't it?
No, musician, yeah, I'd like tosing some ballads with Fred
Hirsch.
Geoff (22:23):
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Ian (22:26):
Vaguely vaguely know him, but we did an interview together
for an American magazine yearsago when I was doing records in
America.
Yeah, I mean, the thing aboutthe jazz world is that everyone
is fairly accessible and yousort of especially now with
social media you can sort of say, hey, do you fancy doing this,
or we've got a budget for this,or are you in town for that, and
(22:47):
you can sort of boldly gosomewhere, can't you?
I mean, I always wanted to workwith Madeline Bell because I
had all her albums when I was akid and I am now her band.
We do duo gigs together.
We just did Ronnie Scott's justme playing the piano and her
singing and I was thinking, howis this panned out?
You know, she was my favouritesinger when I was a kid.
Panned out, panned out, I know,yeah, so.
(23:10):
I'd like to sing a duet withCecile McLorin Salvant as well.
Okay, I think she's amazing,yeah.
Geoff (23:20):
What would you say?
Ian (23:21):
would the highlight of your career be so far?
He added very quickly.
Highlight of my career wouldprobably be being on stage with
Quincy Jones.
I think he conducted a band, itwas like a composite band done
for the Jazz Festival, JazzAwards, and I got to sing the
arrangement of Fly Me to theMoon with him standing there
sort of beaming and conductingit.
(23:42):
That was pretty special, youknow that and I think touring
with Cedar Walton yeah, I thinkthat's Cedar Walton.
Yeah, I think that's got to beup there.
In terms of being a musician,yeah, acting with Dee Dee
Bridgewater and Ben Vereen inNew York, that was good.
(24:02):
Kurt Elling wrote me a part ina play with music called the Big
Blind with a big band, Dee DeeBridgewater, Ben Vereen, me, him
.
I played his sort of viciousEnglish agent.
Geoff (24:17):
What was the last concert you attended?
Ian (24:20):
I went to hear Chopin Nocturnes at the Wigmore Hall
Beautiful.
To my shame that was the lastconcert I attended and that was
in probably September last year.
It was definitely autumn, so Iremember walking home thinking
the leaves the whole day madecomplete sense.
So that was the last concert Iattended.
Geoff (24:40):
What would you say is your musical weakness?
Ian (24:43):
At the moment trying to get a sound out of the flugel.
What it's?
The piano, yeah.
Geoff (24:49):
I didn't even know you played that.
Yeah, I'm trying to get a soundout of the flugel.
What it's the piano?
Yeah, I didn't even know youplayed that.
Ian (24:51):
Yeah, I'm a horn player, originally trumpet and cornet so
I bought the flugel twoChristmases ago and I've been
secretly blowing into the pillowjust doing long notes really
Great.
But I'd love to just pick it upand play a head on a ballad or
something.
Geoff (25:06):
Have you played much of that over the years, or is that
just something you've recentlypicked up again?
Ian (25:10):
Well, it's the muscle thing , because I used to play really
very, very well.
You know, I played classicaltrumpet at college, I played
cornet in brass bands and wecompeted.
You know, I was really good,you know, but I had the freedom
of youth and I didn't reallycare if I splitted, splat, splot
.
A few notes.
Geoff (25:26):
Now it's like you need a tight embouchure.
Ian (25:31):
You need a very, very tight embouchure.
Yes, I tell you, what we do needis a plastic mouthpiece.
That's really hard.
Geoff (25:40):
Do you ever get nervous on stage?
Ian (25:42):
I get nervous waiting to go on stage, every time.
Just a little.
It's kind of good nerves, Ithink.
Geoff (25:50):
Just a little.
Ooh, it's kind of good nerves,I think.
Ian (25:51):
Ooh just a little bit like ooh, yeah, ooh.
I get nervous if I look at thestage and think, oh no, the
microphone's wound around themicrophone's stand to the bottom
.
Geoff (25:58):
Yeah.
Ian (25:59):
That makes me nervous, because there's nothing worse
than seeing someone unravel amicrophone on stage.
It's so tedious.
Geoff (26:05):
It's not very professional, is it?
Ian (26:06):
No, get nervous about that, get nervous about monitors,
don't get nervous about themusic.
Geoff (26:10):
Really, so it's more of a technical thing.
Yeah, what's your favouritesandwich?
Ian (26:15):
Well, I'm gluten-free at the moment, but my favourite
sandwich is sharp cheddar withpickle.
Any pickle, chutney, , Branston.
Really, my favourite sandwichis sharp cheddar and Branston.
Geoff (26:31):
That's come up a few times actually.
Yeah, funny, right, there's acouple more questions.
Ian (26:36):
A favorite movie?
Probably either CinemaParadiso, All about Eve or
Citizen Kane excellent yeahclassics all three, yeah, yeah,
uh.
Geoff (26:47):
What about favorite venues that you've played in?
Ian (26:50):
Ronnie Scott's.
Geoff (26:51):
And what about a favourite country or city?
Ian (26:54):
Favourite city is, without a doubt, Naples, Napoli.
Geoff (26:59):
Okay, one last question what's your favourite chord?
Ian (27:02):
That's Stevie Wonder.
I don't want to bore you everand I don't want to bore you
ever?
Geoff (27:13):
Can you tell everyone what that chord is?
Yeah, it's.
Ian (27:16):
No, I'd say it was an E7.
What is it?
Geoff (27:23):
E13 with a flat 9.
Ian (27:25):
E13, flat 9, isn't it?
Yeah, I don't wanna know yeah,that one.
Geoff (27:34):
It's my favorite.
It's a good one.
It's the context, though, isn'tit where?
Ian (27:36):
it's totally where it's come from and where it's going
to.
Oh, absolutely, totally context.
Yeah, there's some.
I just did a recently did arecord with Tony Kofi and Dave
Green and Barry Green, Mr andMrs Green of Stray horn and some
oh god blimey, some buttes inthere, there is yeah you know we
did Passion Flower and A Floweris a Love some Thing and oh
yeah, obviously Lush Life, somegood chord, yeah, but chords
(27:57):
like what.
It'd be like saying what's yourfavorite word, I suppose isn't
it?
Yeah depends.
Geoff (28:01):
What depends.
What's surprising?
I've had some, some quitedirect answers to that.
Ian (28:06):
People have an instinct about what their favorite chord
is, and is it note-related aswell?
Yeah, Okay.
I like that chord, which isjust basically A sus, a sus.
It's like a C11.
Yeah, I like that.
Geoff (28:28):
That thing always gets me going isn't that interesting
people are drawn to different?
Ian (28:34):
yeah, things aren't they I remember sitting in, uh, getting
drunk with Jamie Cullum, whoyou know you've worked with, and
he we were talking aboutfavorite chords in in some pop
music and he I can't rememberwhich one it is, but it it was
in Tiny Dancer yeah right, hewas absolutely adamant that that
was his favourite chord.
Geoff (28:52):
Is that right yeah?
Ian (28:53):
I can't remember which chord it, where it occurs, and
every time I hear Tiny Dancer,which is a beautiful song, I
think, oh, it's that one.
And sometimes I think I'm goingto have to ring him up and ask
him which one it is.
Geoff (29:09):
Well, Ian, See you soon.
Ian (29:11):
Thanks, you too.
Announcement (29:11):
Thank you for making it to the end of another
podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production.
Quartet for iOS, taking yourjazz play along to another level
.
Search for Quartet on the AppStore or find quartetapp dot com
Hello again, podcats.
This is Geoff Gascoyne, Hopeyou're well.
Today I'm going up to centralLondon, to Waterloo actually.
I'm going to see a very oldfriend of mine, Ian Shaw, singer
, improviser, broadcaster andcomedian.
I'm looking forward to it verymuch, so here we go.
Announcement (00:17):
The Quartet app for iOS.
Taking your jazz play along toanother level.
Geoff (00:42):
Thanks for inviting me round.
It's my absolute pleasure.
What a wheeze.
So you're busy doing so manythings, aren't you?
The career in singing, andyou're a comedian as well,
aren't you?
Ian (00:50):
I cut my teeth on two scenes, the sort of piano bar
scene, so just getting gigs whenI was a student.
You know playing piano, notsinging, actually just playing
poppy stuff.
You know just background musicin restaurants and things.
You know just background musicin restaurants and things.
And then I got an agent calledJack Fallon and he started this
agency called because he saw, Ithink probably I mean it had
been going a long time before Imet him.
I auditioned down in Pizza onthe Park, so I saw it in The
(01:15):
Stage, 'stage on televisiontoday and it said wanted piano
bar entertainers and I didn'tknow what that was really.
So I went along to the auditionin a kilt, Doc Martin boots,
full makeup, punky sort of bikerjacket.
I was still at college, so itwould have been 1981, I think
and he'd already been runningthis wheeze where he realised
(01:35):
that he could put singerpianists in hotels and wine bars
and create a really nice rosterof people.
And he really looked after usall as well.
I did the audition.
There was roster of people andhe looked, really looked after
us all as well.
You know, I did the audition.
There was one woman.
There must have been 30 to 40men of all different shapes and
(01:55):
sizes and you know ages.
All dressed in DJs and I thoughtwell, that's it, I rock up in
my kilt with more eyeliner thanmy then girlfriend Susan and um,
I just did my thing and I justthought he's not going to like
me.
I remember what I did.
Actually I did.
I did Your Song, Elton John.
I did Willkommen, Bienvenuefrom Cabaret and I did Ain't
Misbehavin right, which I lovesinging.
(02:15):
You said you want to go toSweden and I went yeah so I went
to Sweden and played in a hotelin Stockholm and then that was
it then for four or five yearsbetween auditioning for acting
jobs and doing the odd comedything.
But yeah, I cut my teeth hereon the comedy circuit.
Geoff (02:29):
When you start to sing, did you feel like you were a
singer or was it?
How did it work?
Ian (02:34):
Well, I sang in choirs in school, Okay because you're from
Wales, aren't you?
Geoff (02:37):
Yeah, did you grow up with that then?
Ian (02:46):
Yeah, sort, two of my uncles were in male voice choirs
, which is a great Welshtradition, you know, and I was
in a brass band with my dad, soI was.
I never knew what it was likenot to be able to read music.
I can't really learn anythingfrom a tape, you know.
I've got to see the music.
Recently I did a thing Mark-Anthony Turnage
Geoff (03:01):
Would have been, What a classical?
?
Ian (03:03):
Yeah, it was a piece for a reduced orchestra.
It was during COVID and he hadthis idea of writing.
He's always wanted to writesomething for me to sing and it
was a poem called Black Milk byPaul Celan.
So anyway, Mark- AnthonyTurnage took this poem and he
set it.
It's like I don't know 15minutes tops 15 minutes and it's
a through sung thing reallyhard.
(03:26):
And he said, oh, just beyourself on it, you know 15
minutes and it's a through sungthing really hard.
And he said oh, just be yourselfon it.
You know classic, Mark.
I've got a little place down inKent and I took myself off
there for two weeks to learn it.
I wanted to be off the page andlearn it.
You know like an actor wouldlearn a script.
And I did learn it and it wasduring COVID.
So all the orchestra, we wereall baffled.
You know plastic separationthings.
I loved it.
(03:46):
I really, really enjoyed it.
It reminded me of doing stuff,having to do stuff at college
but really not wanting to do itbecause it was college but I
could not have learnt it off atape.
That really pushed me in theway that doing an acting job
pushes me.
Geoff (04:00):
Do you call him Mar?
Antony, I call him Mark.
Do you call him Mark?
Ian (04:01):
Anthony Antony, I call him Mark.
Do you want to call him?
No, I call him Mark.
Geoff (04:04):
Anthony it Mark Antony Turnage?
Ian (04:05):
I'm not sure.
Anthony No, it's Mark.
Geoff (04:07):
Anthony Turnage.
Ian (04:08):
I think this is his mother's name.
Geoff (04:09):
Like the guy that killed Caesar.
Yeah, Mark.
Ian (04:11):
Anthony.
Yeah, this is Mark.
Geoff (04:13):
Turnage.
So when did you startimprovising?
When did you get into?
Ian (04:21):
jazz?
David Bowie, Hunky Dory and Ilistened to something and I
thought what's that?
What David that?
What style is this?
Geoff (04:29):
Funny you should say that I was listening with Ruby last
night to Aladdin Sane.
That's the one right at the endwhere there's all this
avant-garde piano.
It's Mike Garson.
Ian (04:36):
It's incredible, and at the end he just goes like this yeah
.
Geoff (04:41):
Right at the end, doesn't it?
But it's so out, isn't it yeah?
Ian (04:44):
That's on that track.
That's incredible, it's AladdinSane, isn't it?
Geoff (04:48):
Yeah, ha ha, ha, ha ha.
Yeah, that's the one, yeah.
Ian (04:51):
The Lord Roses.
Oh, it's amazing, brilliant.
Every track on that's amazing.
So Honky Dory I heard firstActually was disturbing, because
(05:11):
it's quite disturbing.
But then when I heard HunkyDory fill your heart with love
today, I think, well, that'sjazz, isn't it it is.
And then listening to DavidBowie do things live, and how he
altered his own um phrasing andaltered his own the notes that
he picked on his own yeah songsand he always went to.
I noticed it with Joni Mitchellas well that at the end of a
phrase he always went to like asecond.
So he'd go um, you know, likeum.
I I would be king.
(05:33):
Yeah, yeah, the original was Iwill be king yeah, I was
thinking that's different yeah,so that was the first thing.
I thought, oh, if you sing, andyou sing sort of poppy music,
you can.
And then I thought some of myparents record oh, I see, that's
how that works then.
So then Mel
Geoff (05:48):
Torme may not Sinatra actually, so Mel Torme, Sarah
VaughnI mean Sinatra did that a little
bit when changing.
Yeah, not very much so did he?
Ian (05:56):
no, Sinatra was all about the timbre, the timing, the
storytelling.
Yeah, uh, keeping it nice andswinging and the ballads are
really the I mean, it's Sinatrait's the best, it's the sound
amazing, you know but and thenand then Billie Holiday, Betty
Carter, Mark Murphy, in thatorder.
When I was at college I used totrawl the record shops, you
(06:19):
know, Oxford Street, down inthose dirty basements and
massive basements of shops withkind of imports with ticks out
the top of the records and.
I bought everything.
I spent all my grant on records.
Really, I remember buyingBitches Brew because I loved the
cover.
Announcement (06:34):
And.
Ian (06:34):
I'd never really known what the music was, and it
completely changed my wholefocus on how you could make
music you know.
So yeah, and Sarah Vaughan liveat Ronnie Scott's.
Carmen Karma McRae, TheloniousMonk.
Carmen that is anotheraccidental purchase.
Geoff (06:49):
And then Rah R-A-H.
Ian (06:51):
Mark.
Murphy, I thought what's this?
Who's he?
Because, he looked not likeyou'd expect him to look?
Geoff (07:01):
Was he like a role model to you?
Oh, completely, still is, stillis still is.
Ian (07:05):
If I'm singing with a band, he is.
If I'm on my own, I'm more sortof cabaret, more sort of
stopping and starting comedy,more bluesy, more poppy folky.
But when I'm with a band,especially a trio, not
necessarily a section How didyou get a vocabulary for jazz
then?
How did I do it?
I did it very, very suddenlyand very quickly.
(07:26):
I went and bought the Realbooks and I used to go to you
know, there's true campgentlemen in Chappell's music
Music With with the polo necksand the rings.
Do you remember them?
I used to say have you gotVolume Two yet?
Geoff (07:39):
Under the desk Under the desk, you know.
Ian (07:42):
Dirty books, dirty books Under the desk.
Under the desk you know Dirtybooks, dirty books, yeah.
And you'd be passing with likethe best part of them, 35, 40
quid.
Geoff (07:48):
So were they illegal then ?
Yeah, of course they were.
Ian (07:50):
I don't remember that I just photocopied and then spiral
bound, wasn't?
I that's right yeah.
I learn songs very, very quickly.
I can learn the muscularity ofan A you know.
So when I first heard DetourAhead, I remember it was almost
like a photographic memory ofthe melody and the chords,
because it was so unusual so themore unusual a song is, the
(08:10):
easier for me is to learn, youknow.
Geoff (08:13):
You've done some acting as well, haven't you?
I've done loads of acting, yeah, how did you get into that then
?
Where did that start?
Ian (08:19):
You know, I come from a really working class area,
working class education.
We didn't know that you couldgo to a kibbutz or have a gap
year.
My dad just went OK, what'sthis called then?
Ok, he didn't talk like thatbecause he's Welsh, that's
Stepney Green.
I'd just applied for all thecolleges.
I got into Trinity, King's,Goldsmiths and RADA and it was
(08:44):
like do I do music or do I dodrama?
Got into both of those thingsand I just went King's.
And you know why I did it?
It's because King's was on theriver and I really liked the
look of it.
Geoff (08:51):
You wanted a good view.
I wanted a good view fromcollege, and it was near Covent
Garden.
Ian (08:55):
I hadn't really heard of Soho in those days, right At 17.
I came down here.
I was barely 18 when I came toLondon, but did you still sort
of keep in touch with the actingside.
Geoff (09:07):
You had the two things going at the same time, right,
oh yeah.
Ian (09:09):
Yeah, I did Othello at university.
I did plays.
I was part of the Ludd's LondonUniversity Drama SOC.
I went to Edinburgh.
We did a play up there.
We did Cabaret the Musical withmy now manager, Charlotte, who
played Fraulein Schneider inCabaret.
I constantly did it.
And then I did Fringe TheatreRep, did some films, did a great
(09:34):
film with Juliet Stevenson, TimSporkle, Pier Point that was
much later.
Um, I did, yeah, plays, radiothings always, always maybe one
thing a year.
Now, one thing a year, Charlotte, my manager said to me recently
.
She said she said you should,we should, you should do more.
Acting, 63 years old, you know,in, in.
Geoff (09:56):
June 63 in June.
Ian (09:59):
So I don't know whether it's too late to do that.
I've been offered somethingthis year which I'm considering
doing.
I don't know yet Because it's achunk out of your gigging life
and also financially it's verydifferent to gigging, because
gigging we can be lucky and geta very well-paid one-off gig
which will be two weeks actingwork.
But I love acting, I love words, I love playing, I love being
(10:21):
directed.
So I wish I could do more of itreally, but I've left it too
late really.
I'm not really known as anactor.
I'm known as a musician andoccasional comedian, cabaret
singer, broadcaster and thenprobably at the bottom of that,
would be actor, I think.
Geoff (10:39):
Is it difficult to balance all those things
nowadays?
Ian (10:42):
Not enough hours in the day and even then, sometimes when
I've got, I can't have days off.
I'm hopeless.
If I've got a day off, I don'tknow what to do with myself.
I've always got something.
I mean books, trying to writesongs, doing stuff.
I need to do something everyday.
Really, I'm very good atprocrastinating.
Geoff (11:01):
It doesn't sound like you have much time for that, do you
oh?
Ian (11:04):
yeah.
I mean I've done.
You know, this week I'm tryingto write some songs for a new
project.
I've recorded a Sondheim album,that's not out yet.
So 13 Sondheim songs BecauseI've always wanted to record
them and I met him years ago.
Mark Murphy really put me ontoSondheim songs.
There's a wonderful four CDcollection of Sondheim by jazz
(11:28):
musicians on ECM.
Geoff (11:29):
It's great wow, check that out.
It's very nice, is that a?
Ian (11:32):
recent thing no it's about 15 years old.
I think, okay, yeah, it's about15 years old.
I think, okay, yeah, it'slovely.
It's very weird making albumsnowadays, because it's a
different animal, isn't it?
Geoff (11:42):
Do you still make CDs, actual CDs?
Ian (11:44):
Yeah, you do, yeah, and they sell at gigs only yeah.
Because I think people thinkwell, it's a tenner, if I've
paid 20-odd quid to come and seeto hear some music, then I
might just have a momento, youknow.
It's a certain it's eitherreally young couples.
At my gigs they're really oddSort of young couples in their
(12:04):
early 20s.
Geoff (12:05):
You haven't thought about making T-shirts or anything
like that.
Announcement (12:08):
T-towels.
Ian (12:08):
Claire Teal's got a Teal Towel.
A teal, that's a great idea.
We sell jam and pickle, really,yeah, for charity, because I
support refugee charities.
So every year Charlotte, mymanager, she's down in the shed
stirring a great pot.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
Yeah, we sell them for like afiver and every album I've done
she makes the, she does a pun on.
(12:30):
So The Theory of Jam is one ofthem.
Uh, I did an album of FranLandesman songs Ghosting, jam
session, yeah, jam session.
And she puts the label of theactual album on with the renamed
thing.
You know great idea, but we dothat for the refugee charity.
Fiver a pop and people love itwho doesn't want jam.
So can we talk about my apps?
(12:50):
Four volumes now are out.
Yeah, 500 tunes altogether.
Geoff (12:53):
wow, you're so.
Can we talk about my apps?
Four volumes now are out.
Yeah, 500 tunes altogether.
Wow, you're quite new to it,aren't you?
Ian (13:02):
Yeah.
Geoff (13:02):
I gave it to you recently , yeah.
So I asked you to pick a tune,and I think you mentioned it
earlier.
What tune?
Well, I chose Ain'tMisbehavin', because I knew
you'd ask me how I would getinto starting singing.
It was the first jazz thing Iever learned.
You've done this before, haven't you?
Yeah, I've done it before.
Ian (13:17):
I learned how to play it.
I couldn't believe how old therecording that I learned it from
was.
It was very old, like 30s old,like Fats Waller or something.
Geoff (13:27):
Yeah, Fats Waller.
Yeah, what we're going to do,stick your headphones on.
We're in the key of A flat, Ibelieve.
Hello, I'm going to put myheadphones on too.
Ian (13:38):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Q1 and Q2 by Geoff
Gascoyne.
Geoff (13:46):
So you've done a lot of broadcasting.
You're used to this right.
Have you been interviewed likethis much?
Because you're usually on theother side.
Ian (13:53):
I'm on the other side yeah, if.
I've got a record out.
I've got a record out, yeah,something like I've interviewed
some massive legends, and one ortwo of them have been.
I almost had to just shut upshop and leave.
You know, Al Jarreau, PattiAustin, everyone.
You know Van Morrison, he waslovely yeah and he was a great.
He was a great interviewee.
(14:13):
All I wanted to do was talkabout music with him.
Geoff (14:16):
The key of A flat.
You're not going to sing thetune and I've got two choruses
to sing.
Ian (14:21):
You've got two choruses to sing and none of them can be the
tune.
Yeah, can I use something?
That other words then I'vealways got like three or four
books on the go now, but we aresitting in my sort of in my
music room, in my sort of in mymusic room, come library, come
sleeping room.
We're actually in the bedroom.
Yes, we're in the bedroom.
So I'm reading Annie Erno'sbook The Years, which I really
(14:43):
enjoy and I'm also readingAndrew Hagen's book Caledonian
Road.
Geoff (14:46):
Okay, which one do you want?
We'll have Caledonia Road.
Yeah, and we'll have page 112.
Ian (14:53):
Okay, Caledonian Road page 100.
Second paragraph, please 12,second paragraph 112.
Okay, oh, this is excitingbecause I don't think I've got
that far yet.
Geoff (15:05):
Have you All right, are you ready?
Yeah, here we go.
Ian (15:15):
Standing in the hall, Campbell felt positive.
It was one of those brightevenings in the country when
everything seems well.
The birds were singing as thesetting sun struck, the
mullioned windows giving hope,Hindoclée had the dusty,
resplendent pattern of centuries.
(15:35):
The candles went all the wayback to Flodden and they had the
musketry to prove it.
Oh yeah, gleaming darkly fromthe walls above the tapestries
and busts.
In the drawing room, Morios andHarkness just held on the red
damask wallpaper and themultiple sofas were backed with
(15:57):
tables crowded with familypictures no children, alas, but
adults choked in uniforms orpearls.
A number of people stood in theroom, but even Campbell walked
alone to the drinks table.
They always had these tableseverywhere, with tins of tonic
water, tomato juice, stacked up,cheap whiskeys and old tumblers
(16:19):
.
He put a gin and looked up at acabinet of books A full run of
Trollops bound in red leather.
At the end on its own was acopy of Campbell's The Mail.
He surveyed the room and took adeep breath.
The Duke had been off his head,Campbell thought, since Cannon
(16:41):
turned forty-five and Antonyreleased.
Their inability to produce anheir meant the Duke might die
Within.
Such things can corrupt you.
He was all of a sudden besidehim.
The Duke dressed in aridiculous narrow jacket and
white linen trousers above apair of slippers.
(17:03):
I have to confess.
He said I still ain't read thisbook of yours.
Too much work, if you ask me.
That's idiotic, Tony, I speakas a writer.
Of course you do.
He touched Campbell's arm asthey turned towards the others.
I'm afraid I'm rather dependingon you tonight.
The Duke said Okay, we got somecrashes.
Geoff (17:29):
That's great.
Yeah, the words didn't reallymatter to me.
Nah, didn't have any idea whatyou were going on about, to be
honest, but the shape of theimprovising and the melody was
great.
Ian (17:40):
It was quite bluesy, wasn't it, I suppose?
Some blues in there yeah, yeah,the words felt very different
because I'm a big fan of AndrewHagan, you know.
He's a genius and he writesthese incredibly dense character
based books, you know and thisone's.
This one's set in London, youknow, it's just wonderful.
But I wasn't really, because Iknow who those characters are.
(18:02):
Because I'm, you can see whereI am in the book.
It's not that far away fromwhat I've just done, but I
wasn't really thinking about howthat bore any relevance to what
the narrative was so far.
Announcement (18:14):
So that's interesting, isn't it, Paul, or
any?
Ian (18:15):
relevance to what the narrative was so far.
So that's interesting, isn't it?
Paul Gambaccini, who's a reallygood mate of mine.
I've known him for years.
He's apart from being a veryknowledgeable kind of guru.
You know he knows everythingabout pop music and jazz as well
.
And he's written a beautifulbook called Love Letters.
It's an old book now it's about28 years old, I think it is and
it's based on seven people inhis life that made a great
(18:37):
impression on him.
Some of them now are dead, so Ithink there's only one of them
left.
So we just got talking and Ijust thought they're so honest
and yet they're kind of redolentand rich and beautiful.
So I've been trying to write 14songs out of seven chapters.
You know the characters are allnames Love Letters.
You've got an introduction,which in itself is good letters,
uh, you've got an introduction,which in itself is good.
And then you've got Henry,Scott, David, Steven, George
(18:59):
Terry and Chris, and Chris isthe lead singer of Kajagoogoo.
What, basically?
What I do is I read the chapterand then I try to write a song
based on what I've just read bymemory.
Then I go back to try and getthe essence of each chapter into
a song structure.
Geoff (19:18):
Are these unrequited love letters?
Ian (19:20):
Yeah, they've all got different flavours.
One of them is written withabsolute venom by someone who
really, really messed him aroundand lied, and that's a really
these people that he's hadrelationships?
Yes, they are okay, and they goright back to when he was a
little boy, uh, north of NewYork, uh, when he went to school
and the first kind of crush hehad uh, not all of them are
(19:42):
sexual partners.
So he's got there's two friendsin there as well, and they've
all got different flavors, youknow, know, they've got
different emotions.
One of them is rueful, one ofthem is really venomous.
One of them is you know, thelast line of it is I can't
believe how much I miss you.
That's the last line.
We've got a meeting at theweekend to try and get some sort
(20:03):
of mise-en-scene, to try andget some sort of plot, and we've
come up with some ideas, whichis basically a young man, a
singer we know exactly who we'regoing to have to sing it as
well A young guy called MattKent, who's brilliant, and he
said he'd do it.
Geoff (20:21):
So, between some dialogue , So you wouldn't sing it
yourself then?
No, it's not for me.
Ian (20:27):
Which is really a much more enjoyable way of doing things.
I write better.
If I know it's, it's not for me.
I think it would be lovely tohave a trio a singer and a set
and lighting, so quite simple.
So really it's.
It's a one-person show, I think, and he finds the letters in a
(20:47):
box and then I can't really giveyou the spoiler, but there's an
ending which, hopefully, isquite shocking.
So this character, this youngman who's barely 26 now, he's a
New York singer-songwritercalled Matt Kent, who I've
worked with.
So it's at a very, very earlystage.
We might even just do it as agig, we don't know Putting on a
(21:09):
show is needs money.
Geoff (21:10):
There's a lot of money.
You know that's going to be agreat project.
Hope so, um, hope so, yeah,yeah, good luck with that, thank
you very much, thank you.
Ian (21:16):
I'll pass on your, your, your, your good wishes to the
man himself.
Geoff (21:20):
On Sunday and we're having lots to do, yeah, yeah so
, to finish off, I've got a fewquestions, a few yeah.
So do you have a favouritealbum?
Ian (21:36):
Oh, God, it's always hard, that isn't?
Geoff (21:38):
it.
Ian (21:39):
I think I'm going to have to say Hejira by Joni Mitchell,
because every time I listen toit I hear something new.
I've never heard music like it.
I didn't even realise therewasn't a kit playing at one
point.
I was so sort of hypnotised bythe.
Every song is completelydifferent.
Every setting is different.
She almost sings differently onevery one as well.
(21:59):
Either that or any recording ofthe Quartet for the End of Time
, Olivier Messiaen.
Geoff (22:06):
Quite a diverse couple of albums there.
Do you have a favouritemusician, alive or dead, that
you would like to play with?
Ian (22:13):
Oh, that's another difficult one, really, isn't it?
No, musician, yeah, I'd like tosing some ballads with Fred
Hirsch.
Geoff (22:23):
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Ian (22:26):
Vaguely vaguely know him, but we did an interview together
for an American magazine yearsago when I was doing records in
America.
Yeah, I mean, the thing aboutthe jazz world is that everyone
is fairly accessible and yousort of especially now with
social media you can sort of say, hey, do you fancy doing this,
or we've got a budget for this,or are you in town for that, and
(22:47):
you can sort of boldly gosomewhere, can't you?
I mean, I always wanted to workwith Madeline Bell because I
had all her albums when I was akid and I am now her band.
We do duo gigs together.
We just did Ronnie Scott's justme playing the piano and her
singing and I was thinking, howis this panned out?
You know, she was my favouritesinger when I was a kid.
Panned out, panned out, I know,yeah, so.
(23:10):
I'd like to sing a duet withCecile McLorin Salvant as well.
Okay, I think she's amazing,yeah.
Geoff (23:20):
What would you say?
Ian (23:21):
would the highlight of your career be so far?
He added very quickly.
Highlight of my career wouldprobably be being on stage with
Quincy Jones.
I think he conducted a band, itwas like a composite band done
for the Jazz Festival, JazzAwards, and I got to sing the
arrangement of Fly Me to theMoon with him standing there
sort of beaming and conductingit.
(23:42):
That was pretty special, youknow that and I think touring
with Cedar Walton yeah, I thinkthat's Cedar Walton.
Yeah, I think that's got to beup there.
In terms of being a musician,yeah, acting with Dee Dee
Bridgewater and Ben Vereen inNew York, that was good.
(24:02):
Kurt Elling wrote me a part ina play with music called the Big
Blind with a big band, Dee DeeBridgewater, Ben Vereen, me, him
.
I played his sort of viciousEnglish agent.
Geoff (24:17):
What was the last concert you attended?
Ian (24:20):
I went to hear Chopin Nocturnes at the Wigmore Hall
Beautiful.
To my shame that was the lastconcert I attended and that was
in probably September last year.
It was definitely autumn, so Iremember walking home thinking
the leaves the whole day madecomplete sense.
So that was the last concert Iattended.
Geoff (24:40):
What would you say is your musical weakness?
Ian (24:43):
At the moment trying to get a sound out of the flugel.
What it's?
The piano, yeah.
Geoff (24:49):
I didn't even know you played that.
Yeah, I'm trying to get a soundout of the flugel.
What it's the piano?
Yeah, I didn't even know youplayed that.
Ian (24:51):
Yeah, I'm a horn player, originally trumpet and cornet so
I bought the flugel twoChristmases ago and I've been
secretly blowing into the pillowjust doing long notes really
Great.
But I'd love to just pick it upand play a head on a ballad or
something.
Geoff (25:06):
Have you played much of that over the years, or is that
just something you've recentlypicked up again?
Ian (25:10):
Well, it's the muscle thing , because I used to play really
very, very well.
You know, I played classicaltrumpet at college, I played
cornet in brass bands and wecompeted.
You know, I was really good,you know, but I had the freedom
of youth and I didn't reallycare if I splitted, splat, splot
.
A few notes.
Geoff (25:26):
Now it's like you need a tight embouchure.
Ian (25:31):
You need a very, very tight embouchure.
Yes, I tell you, what we do needis a plastic mouthpiece.
That's really hard.
Geoff (25:40):
Do you ever get nervous on stage?
Ian (25:42):
I get nervous waiting to go on stage, every time.
Just a little.
It's kind of good nerves, Ithink.
Geoff (25:50):
Just a little.
Ooh, it's kind of good nerves,I think.
Ian (25:51):
Ooh just a little bit like ooh, yeah, ooh.
I get nervous if I look at thestage and think, oh no, the
microphone's wound around themicrophone's stand to the bottom
.
Geoff (25:58):
Yeah.
Ian (25:59):
That makes me nervous, because there's nothing worse
than seeing someone unravel amicrophone on stage.
It's so tedious.
Geoff (26:05):
It's not very professional, is it?
Ian (26:06):
No, get nervous about that, get nervous about monitors,
don't get nervous about themusic.
Geoff (26:10):
Really, so it's more of a technical thing.
Yeah, what's your favouritesandwich?
Ian (26:15):
Well, I'm gluten-free at the moment, but my favourite
sandwich is sharp cheddar withpickle.
Any pickle, chutney, , Branston.
Really, my favourite sandwichis sharp cheddar and Branston.
Geoff (26:31):
That's come up a few times actually.
Yeah, funny, right, there's acouple more questions.
Ian (26:36):
A favorite movie?
Probably either CinemaParadiso, All about Eve or
Citizen Kane excellent yeahclassics all three, yeah, yeah,
uh.
Geoff (26:47):
What about favorite venues that you've played in?
Ian (26:50):
Ronnie Scott's.
Geoff (26:51):
And what about a favourite country or city?
Ian (26:54):
Favourite city is, without a doubt, Naples, Napoli.
Geoff (26:59):
Okay, one last question what's your favourite chord?
Ian (27:02):
That's Stevie Wonder.
I don't want to bore you everand I don't want to bore you
ever?
Geoff (27:13):
Can you tell everyone what that chord is?
Yeah, it's.
Ian (27:16):
No, I'd say it was an E7.
What is it?
Geoff (27:23):
E13 with a flat 9.
Ian (27:25):
E13, flat 9, isn't it?
Yeah, I don't wanna know yeah,that one.
Geoff (27:34):
It's my favorite.
It's a good one.
It's the context, though, isn'tit where?
Ian (27:36):
it's totally where it's come from and where it's going
to.
Oh, absolutely, totally context.
Yeah, there's some.
I just did a recently did arecord with Tony Kofi and Dave
Green and Barry Green, Mr andMrs Green of Stray horn and some
oh god blimey, some buttes inthere, there is yeah you know we
did Passion Flower and A Floweris a Love some Thing and oh
yeah, obviously Lush Life, somegood chord, yeah, but chords
(27:57):
like what.
It'd be like saying what's yourfavorite word, I suppose isn't
it?
Yeah depends.
Geoff (28:01):
What depends.
What's surprising?
I've had some, some quitedirect answers to that.
Ian (28:06):
People have an instinct about what their favorite chord
is, and is it note-related aswell?
Yeah, Okay.
I like that chord, which isjust basically A sus, a sus.
It's like a C11.
Yeah, I like that.
Geoff (28:28):
That thing always gets me going isn't that interesting
people are drawn to different?
Ian (28:34):
yeah, things aren't they I remember sitting in, uh, getting
drunk with Jamie Cullum, whoyou know you've worked with, and
he we were talking aboutfavorite chords in in some pop
music and he I can't rememberwhich one it is, but it it was
in Tiny Dancer yeah right, hewas absolutely adamant that that
was his favourite chord.
Geoff (28:52):
Is that right yeah?
Ian (28:53):
I can't remember which chord it, where it occurs, and
every time I hear Tiny Dancer,which is a beautiful song, I
think, oh, it's that one.
And sometimes I think I'm goingto have to ring him up and ask
him which one it is.
Geoff (29:09):
Well, Ian, See you soon.
Ian (29:11):
Thanks, you too.
Announcement (29:11):
Thank you for making it to the end of another
podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production.
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.
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