June 26, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode Geoff catches up with the award-winning jazz guitarist Nigel Price.
Nigel’s remarkable journey from infantry service to jazz mastery provides a fascinating window into the development of a truly unique musical voice.
Nigel reveals how his three years in the army unexpectedly prepared him for life as a bandleader—discovering parallels between commanding a four-man military section and leading a jazz quartet. This disciplined approach extended to his practice regime, where he spent "three hours a day for seven years" developing his voice-leading technique within systematically organised fret positions.
Rather than simply copying jazz legends, Nigel focused on understanding harmonic foundations to create his own language. "I'd sort of hear something and work it out and then try and twist it around and try and make it my own," he explains. This philosophy was reinforced by mentor Jim Mullen's advice
that “…it’s far more interesting when someone's worked it out for themselves."
The conversation delves into Nigel’s ingenious "jazz wheel" practice method, his custom-designed Fibonacci guitar, and his approach to composition. We're treated to stunning demonstrations of his technique, including a masterclass in playing the challenging 1930s Hammerstein/Kern standard ‘All the Things You Are’ (accompanied by the steadfast Quartet app of course) while restricted to just five frets!
Between technical insights, Nigel shares candid stories about struggling with sight-reading ("a guitarist’s disease"), weeping on stage after selling out Ronnie Scott's, and watching Jaws 47 times!
Whether you're a jazz guitarist seeking practice inspiration or simply fascinated by the creative process, Nigel’s methodical yet deeply musical approach offers valuable lessons about finding your unique voice through disciplined exploration. Ready to revolutionise your practice routine? Listen now and discover how military precision transformed one guitarist's musical journey.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:02):
Hello Podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here.
Today I'm speaking to thewonderful guitar player, Nigel
Price.
He's coming round to my house.
We're going to talk all aboutthe guitar and about jazz
standards, about being in thearmy, running a quartet and
loads of other jazzy stuff likethat.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:38):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS.
Taking your jazz play along toanother level.
Here we are.
How are you today?
Nigel (00:49):
I'm not too bad, all things considered.
Geoff (00:51):
We've not really sat down before and chatted that much.
How did you start getting intojazz?
Nigel (00:56):
Well, it was just a kind of survival thing really.
I started playing when I was 11.
Just got right into it, got thebug.
You know, as you do, you can'tleave it alone.
Ridiculous practice days.
Geoff (01:07):
Where did you grow up?
Nigel (01:08):
In Epsom in Surrey, I still live there yeah, not in
the same house, but, yeah, therewas never a reason to move out.
It's close enough to London andI've got family there as well,
so it's great.
You know, it was kind ofevolution, I suppose.
I mean, I, I started outplaying blues, but it was always
very sociable.
I'd always have a band, butthen I soon came to realize that
if you didn't sing and you werejust a blues guitar player,
(01:31):
then there wasn't an awful lotof opportunity really.
I used to get these crazy bandstogether and we used to play
blues, and then we sort ofstarted venturing to fusion and
that sort of thing, um, and thatin turn led to sort of finding
out about some of the morejazzier side of things.
The whole thing was interruptedwhen I joined the infantry at
16, ah, so I had to leave it allalone for ages, you know
Geoff (01:53):
how long were you, did you do your service for?
Nigel (01:55):
Three years 262 days wow, not that I was counting, but
that's, that's another whole.
So you weren't in a militaryband no no, no, no, I was no, I
was in infantry.
I was just cannon fodder.
I was a steely-eyed cleaner ofthe night.
Where did you go?
I spent a couple of years inNorthern Ireland, went to Canada
and then stationed inShropshire.
Geoff (02:15):
Three that enjoyable?
Nigel (02:18):
Well, I mean to a point, I really screwed up at school
really badly.
So I went to a sort of grammarschool and I was into the music
and I used to sort of do thehouse music.
Did you not think there was acareer in music?
I wasn't getting any supportthere because unless you played
piano then they didn't reallywant to know, or unless you had
piano lessons.
So none of my family weremusicians.
(02:39):
I don't really know where itcame from, but I messed up quite
badly at school, ended upgetting kind of thrown out.
My brother had just joined theRoyal Marines about a year
before, and he's coming back allwindswept and interesting and I
thought, okay, let's do thisand I guess it was character
building, wasn't it?
I think it's got to have aneffect, doesn't it?
In fact, I had a sort ofepiphany just a few years back,
(03:01):
because I was a lance corporalin the in the end, which means
you're in charge of a four-mansection and I suddenly realized
that I was traveling around thecountry in charge of a four-man
team that's what exactly you'redoing now god you know yeah
I mean maybe, maybe it's, maybethey got inside my head a bit
more than I thought, surely thatgave you the discipline, didn't
it to you know, run a, run aband.
(03:22):
For example, I don't, I don'tknow, I mean, who's to say what
it would have been like anyother way.
But yeah, I mean, I do treat itlike a sort of mission, I
suppose.
Geoff (03:32):
Yeah, because I've seen some of your tours that they're
really long and exhausting,aren't they?
Yeah, I think 2016 was 56 dates.
So when did you startimprovising, do you remember?
Nigel (03:47):
What happened really was that after I left the army I was
very driven and forming bandsand they always used to sort of
fall apart or there'd bepolitics and all that sort of
thing.
And it just felt like the chainwas as strong as the weakest
link.
Well, that's kind of true injazz, though, isn't?
Geoff (04:00):
it.
Nigel (04:00):
Well it is true, it is true.
But what I sort of consideredwas that if I could be just like
a lone gun, like a hired hand,and if I could learn a lot of
standards and improvise, then Icould, as a sideline, even just
go out on my own.
You know, and you know, if youdon't like the drummer or
whatever, or the bass player orwhoever, then you never have to
(04:21):
play with them again becauseit's just a one-night stand,
isn't it?
And so I just decided to tryand get as good at that as
possible.
What was your process forgetting good?
Did you transcribe stuff?
There was a certain amount ofthat, definitely.
But I remember hearing fromsomeone it's gone now into the
(04:43):
mists of time about peoplesaying don't emulate, don't
actually take anything down anduse it, because you're just
going to be regurgitatingeverything.
So I'd sort of hear somethingand work it out and then try and
twist it around and try andmake it my own, trying to create
my own language.
I suppose that was my mainfocus, really trying to end up
(05:06):
with a, with a sort of uniquebut isn't.
Geoff (05:08):
Isn't um copying someone?
Isn't that part of the learningprocess?
Oh yeah, no, of course you dothat as well.
Nigel (05:13):
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah but I'd, I'd, I'd be more
inclined to sort of take a stepback and say, when I'm listening
to Joe Pass or whatever youknow, it's not just the notes,
it's about the, the vibe and theand the kind of the pace of it
all and just the sort of umsounds a bit hippie, but like
the soundscape of it all.
You know, sort of take a stepback and look at the whole thing
, rather than actually sort ofgo right inside and nick this
(05:35):
lick and that lick and that lick.
Geoff (05:37):
So who are your heroes?
Who were your first kind ofjazz inspiration?
I suppose well it's.
Nigel (05:43):
It's odd, isn't it?
Because we're all after thefact, aren't we?
You know, I mean, I was born in69.
You know the real classics wereeither getting on or gone by
then.
So it's always going to belooking back.
The stuff that was happening atthat time was things like John
Schofield and Pat Metheny andthings like that, and I just
thought, well, okay, I'm justgoing to have a little look back
in history just so I canunderstand the reference points.
(06:05):
Just for a year or two I justjumped down the rabbit hole and
I kind of never came out.
You know, I had no idea aboutall these players like Tal
Farlow and Joe Pass and Wes, and, to be honest, I kind of
consume all my music on the road.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
You've just got hours and hoursand hours on your own.
I consume all my music on theroad.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
You've just got hours and hoursand hours on your own.
(06:26):
I mean, it's a pretty lonelylife really.
You know, you practise on yourown at home, and then you get in
the car and you're on your own,yeah, and you turn up and
you're all excited at the gig.
You actually talk to some humanbeings.
Geoff (06:34):
Yeah, would you say, you ever use licks.
Nigel (06:45):
Is that something that you ever thought?
Did you take licks from otherplayers and did you put them
into your own play?
There was some of that.
I remember going round atrumpet player's house once and
he'd done loads oftranscriptions like thousands of
them, and he was asking me if Itranscribed stuff and I
explained pretty much what I didto you and then we played
together and he said, well,where's all this stuff coming
from?
He said, have you just workedit out with the chord tones?
And I said, well, yeah, and Ithink coming from.
(07:10):
He said, have you just workedit out with the chord tones?
And I said, well, yeah, and um,and I think it's all there.
Actually, if you do that, justjust sort of um, put the good
chord, you know the chord toneson the downbeats and the and the
altered notes, then it justfalls into place.
It just sounds like Joe Passimmediately.
You know, I wish it was thatsimple.
I mean, it kind of is in a way.
Yeah, I could demonstrate,could demonstrate if you like
you can I love it?
Go ahead.
I spent a lot of time turningthe microscope on learning.
(07:32):
Well, I guess in hindsight I'dcall it voice leading.
Say so, here's the firstarpeggio, if you want.
So here's C minor in order, andthen change to the next
available note of the nextarpeggio.
If you want.
So here's c minor in order, andthen change to the next
available note of the nextarpeggio, which is going to be c
for f, F7, then the flat seven,and then flat nine, uh, and
(08:00):
then the next available in bflat, which is going to be major
seven.
Geoff (08:03):
You mean the closest, the next closest note, don't you?
Yeah, yeah.
Nigel (08:07):
Yeah, yeah and it's.
I spent an incredible amount oftime doing all this in groups
of five frets all over the neck.
I spent about three hours a dayfor seven years doing that.
That was just a part of mypractice to a metronome and that
just seemed to iron outvirtually everything you know.
(08:28):
So now when I'm improvising,you know I'm not thinking about
the numbers per se, but I cancall them out.
You know, as I'm doing it likeone three, three, three, four,
four, two three, 13, major seven, major seven, one flat nine.
(08:57):
That was one, so I'm alwaysaware of where all the really
good chords are.
Do you teach?
Geoff (09:04):
Do you do much teaching or any teaching, if someone asks
me for a lesson, I say no.
Nigel (09:12):
And if someone asks me again, I'll say no.
And if they have the bare-facedcheek to ask me a third time,
then I'll consider it.
Geoff (09:18):
Okay, would you give me a lesson?
No, can you give me a lesson?
No, go on, just give me alesson.
Nigel (09:26):
All right?
Geoff (09:26):
no, can you give me a lesson?
No, go on, just give me alesson, all right then.
Yeah, that works, that was easy.
I've been learning guitar forthe since lockdown, um, which is
why I've got these guitars hereand I started playing classical
guitar, but I'm sort of gettinginto jazz guitar I.
I find it's totallymind-boggling how many shapes
there are.
Nigel (09:39):
Yes, well, that's that's why I did this.
It just shows you all the shapes, if you, if you play within
like a five fret yeah group itshows you everything yeah,
Geoff (09:47):
But just the difference between a shape on the first
four strings and then the secondto the fifth, and it's just
mind-boggling.
Did you have a process for forgetting them in order,
Nigel (09:56):
or well, yeah, I mean it's um, I uh, it was possible,
um, to just go through the um,the fourths for, but in fact
what I did is make pages andpages and pages of random notes,
just so I had to learn them,but just for the sake of it.
Now we could go around infourths.
If you like, I'm just going toplay, say, major seven arpeggios
, major seven arpeggios In thefirst five frets, no open
(10:17):
strings.
Okay, so we just go C.
Okay.
And then change to the nextavailable note F and then B flat
.
E flat, A flat B flat.
G flat B, E.
(10:39):
And A, I'm allowed to use thebottom one For that one.
Geoff (10:43):
D G Back to the start and that's just showed you every
single yeah shape okay, so youcould do that with with chords
as well.
Nigel (10:54):
Cool voices as well yeah, so I did that for all of the
kind of cool.
You know well everything, butthat's just the start of it,
doesn't it you got?
Well, I mean, it's just's justkind of knowing where to put
your fingers and I guess for the, you know, for the rules I mean
it was actually learning tunesthat like showed me a lot of
this stuff.
Things like I don't know, likeminor seven flat five.
(11:17):
You know, arguably the firstchord of Stella by Starlight and
that's the fourth.
Yeah, that's the fourth on thehalf diminished chord.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like Beautiful Love.
The same yeah, and it's.
There's like things that keeppopping up and I thought, well,
(11:38):
if that's a choice that's madewith melody, then that's
straight in there, you's.
So, although it could be deemedan arpeggio, you know, I'm just
going to stick that fourth in,so, instead of just going, now
it's it's not like a theorything, it's more like a melody
(12:00):
thing.
Yeah, I've always tried to pullit back to that.
Melody first.
Geoff (12:04):
Excellent what?
about your sound, your sound.
Did you take your a while toget a good sound or was it?
Is that driven by the kind ofguitar that you play?
Nigel (12:14):
it's, it partly just is what it is, isn't it?
I mean if you, you know, if youget, yeah, I mean if you were
playing a Telecaster forsomething you wouldn't sound the
same you wouldn't sound thesame.
I wouldn't play a, wouldn't playa Telecaster yeah, no, I don't
know, I might do nothing againstTelecasters.
No, no, but it's.
I mean there's, that's quite abig question, but it, yeah, I
mean that that also feeds intowhat.
What do you want to be known?
For yeah what do you, what doyou want to be known for?
I mean I don't really go out anddo anything else.
(12:37):
You know, don't do rock gigs orcountry gigs or yeah, or many
pop gigs.
Yeah, you, I will do if someonepays me enough.
Do you own a Telecaster?
I do actually.
Yeah, but I only own aTelecaster because Lorne Lofsky,
the great guitar player, cameover and I knew that he had a
Telecaster, so I got it set upexactly how he wanted it, bought
it just so he'd be happy.
I do love Telecasters yeah.
(12:59):
Yeah.
Geoff (13:01):
I do.
Nigel (13:02):
You hear Ted Green play it and oh yeah, no, of course of
course, but for me I needsomething really wide, so you
can sort of sit on your knee andjust feel sort of like
ergonomically they just fit inwith your body.
Geoff (13:12):
Well, your guitar is gorgeous.
What's that?
A Fibonacci?
Nigel (13:14):
It's a Fibonacci Londoner .
It's really nice.
I designed it.
Yeah Well asked what dimensionsI wanted.
Geoff (13:22):
Fibonacci, that's an English company isn't it it?
Is they build them in WorcesterPark, wow that's handy.
Nigel (13:27):
It's the only UK jazz guitar company.
is that right?
There isn't another one.
Geoff (13:32):
It sounds very continental-o, doesn't it?
It sounds kind of Well.
Is that?
deliberate, or is there a MrFibonacci?
Nigel (13:39):
Well, I helped design this pickup as well.
Geoff (13:41):
Did you?
Nigel (13:42):
It's a floating humbucker but it's got the same footprint
as a full-size humbucker butit's floating.
Geoff (13:49):
Wow, and you just don't get those Incredible.
Nigel (13:52):
There's one guy in Germany called Boris Domengett
who does one.
There's one guy in Germanycalled Boris Domengett who does
one, but I worked with a guy,funnily enough, in Gypsy Hill,
just around the corner, isn't it?
A guy called John Dickinson,and and we came up with this we,
we figured out what wire theyused to use in the old PAFs and
all that.
So it's, it's a real piece ofwork, yeah.
Geoff (14:10):
It is amazing.
Yeah, but you can buy thatguitar.
Can you do the same as thatsomewhere?
You could if you wanted to.
Yes, okay.
Nigel (14:16):
If you had enough money.
Geoff (14:19):
And they're expensive.
Yeah Well, they're over sevengrand I think Are they.
Right?
Nigel (14:21):
But back to the sound thing.
I mean, actually it's not untilyou get a little bit older that
sometimes I listen back to whatI was doing in my 20s and I'm
like, oh for God's sake, youknow, it's.
Geoff (14:33):
So, in terms of practising, do you practise much
?
I mean, I know you're playing alot, but do you practise?
Nigel (14:38):
Yeah, I practise about three hours every morning.
I invented this thing.
It was called the jazz wheeland the very first one was six
standards, and then there's 12groups of frets.
Geoff (14:47):
Yeah.
Nigel (14:48):
And so I had them lined up with whatever groups of frets
Like I'd play All The ThingsYou Are so randomising where
you're playing, yeah.
Yeah, and then when I was happywith you know, when I felt
comfortable, I'd just click thewhole thing and then play the
all the different standards inall the different groups, yeah,
and so there's a very definitebeginning and end to that and I
could map it out and I couldactually see how long it was
(15:08):
going to take.
Wow, I did the jazz wheelnumber two, which is 12
standards, and it just it was soexhausting but I did it.
And then I started a third oneand I actually bailed after
about three months.
Geoff (15:23):
So I presume you were just playing with a click, or
you were playing with a backingtrack or what.
Nigel (15:28):
Well, you know, when you first start off doing this voice
leading thing, it's really hardto do it to a click because
it's hard, yeah, and it took alittle while, but having a click
because it's hard.
Geoff (15:36):
Yeah, and it took a little while, but having a click
puts a time pressure on itdoesn't it?
Nigel (15:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Geoff (15:40):
You know, if you're just sitting there and playing sort
of out of time, then it's kindof not the same, is it?
Nigel (15:46):
No, you're right.
I mean, I guess we're talkingabout time feel.
And yeah, you know, I did havea metronome for a while, don't
worry.
Worry, I know the plug's comingup.
No, it's fine it's fine.
I had a wind up metronome and Iused to wind it up.
Oh, one of those, thosetriangular ones everyone has on
their piano yeah so, and youknow, I'd wind it up twice and
(16:09):
it would last about three hours,but I guess what we're building
up to is talking aboutPlayalongs, playalongs yes.
And, of course you know, yearsago you had the Jamey Aeber
solds, which was all right.
Geoff (16:22):
It's okay if you had a good trio.
Some of them were a bit patchy,weren't they?
Yeah?
Nigel (16:27):
and it's you know.
Get the needle on them, runback to the guitar.
That was all right.
I didn't have loads of them andthey were expensive.
And then, of course, the iRealbook comes along and destroys.
Jamey.
Geoff (16:41):
Ae bersold's empire.
You mean the app iReal.
Nigel (16:43):
You mean yeah, the iReal app yeah.
But of course it just soundsterrible.
You know, it's just awful.
Geoff (16:49):
Yes.
Nigel (16:50):
And it's the most uninspirational thing.
You'll get sick of it.
You might become tired of yourimprovisation before it reaches
the amount of choruses that youprogrammed, and that's no way to
be.
If you're improvising, gettingsick of the noise that's coming
out, I hate that.
So what you've done with theQuartet apps is fantastic Not
only that one, but the SessionBand before that because it just
(17:12):
sounds brilliant and it justmakes you feel like you're
actually playing with people.
Geoff (17:22):
When I choose to go into performance mode at home.
Yeah, I know you've done some,made some YouTube.
Nigel (17:26):
Um, yeah, movies, haven't you.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I justthink it really, really deserves
to be out there well, it'senormously helpful.
Geoff (17:30):
I'm really grateful for you to do that.
I asked you about picking atune to play along.
So which track did you pick?
All The Things You Are.
Nigel (17:43):
All The Things You Are, all the chords there are.
Geoff (17:45):
You were talking about playing in a particular area of
the guitar.
Yeah, if you could pick a fewfrets and try and play through
the whole sequence just withinthose frets.
Nigel (17:57):
Do you mean, can I put my money where my mouth is?
Geoff (17:59):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Nigel (18:01):
Yeah, maybe.
Which group of frets do youwant?
Five to nine, maybe five tonine.
Geoff (18:05):
All right, yeah, all right.
So we have an introduction.
Let's, let's see how it goes.
There we go, thank, you so?
Nigel (20:14):
do do Got away with it.
Geoff (20:18):
You certainly did, you certainly did.
Stanley
Nigel (20:20):
, I did creep out of the zone a couple of times there.
Geoff (20:24):
I saw your left hand just wanting to go and creep up.
Nigel (20:27):
I wanted to.
Geoff (20:27):
You stayed there.
Yeah, how did that feel then,when you were boxed in, if you
like.
Nigel (20:38):
Well, it just forces you to play certain positions.
I could do the same thing in adifferent, in a different group
of frets, and it would just feel, yeah, feel different.
Geoff (20:42):
But so, going back to the , to the practice apps,
obviously there's piano and youcan use different mixes.
Yes, do you always just use thepiano trio?
Nigel (20:50):
No, I've done a few things.
I'm not sure if you've seeneventually where I just I just
keep the bass and drums, right,I mean I would be interested to
hear you play.
Geoff (21:02):
Would you be up for playing another?
Nigel (21:04):
chorus with just the bass and the drums.
On what tune?
Geoff (21:07):
On the same tune.
All right, okay, is that allright?
Yeah, of course.
Okay, let me just get the tuneup and I'll flip it to the
alternate mix, which will be thebass and drums.
Nigel (22:29):
All right, thank you.
Thank you fantastic, that wasso good.
(23:24):
I'd be more inclined to sticksome chords in, I suppose there
being a bit of space yeah, it'sjust, I mean, that was so good.
Geoff (23:32):
Yeah, just so much in this, of course.
Nigel (23:35):
Of course the other thing which you know, is that you can
change the key, and I've madethis quite an important part of
it as well.
I mean, maybe this is getting abit nerdy, but like something,
like All The Things You Are,it's a tune that was always
going to be written.
So it's an A flat, but all ofthe key centers are just built
(23:58):
around uh, a flat major seven.
So the first one's a flat andthen the next one's a third is c
and the next one's e flat, nextone's g yeah and so they never
thought of that, you know.
So then you've just got six uhuh of a flat uh, and then two of
a flat, five of A flat, andthen 2 of A flat, 5 of A flat, 1
, 4, and then we've just got 5into the 3rd, and then we're
(24:21):
doing the same thing 6, 6 of Eflat, which is the 5.
2, 5 of 2, sorry, 5 of E flat,and then the last one is going
to be 5 into the major 7, whichis G major.
Two, five into that, and thenit looks like we're going minor
(24:44):
but we're going major, major,yeah, and then we're just fiving
back into the original formula.
So two, six, five, one.
And then there's this thing wewere doing a gypsy gig and
someone shouted horse at me andI was like what the hell are you
talking about?
I asked him afterwards.
He said it's the old war horse.
It's four, four minor threediminished on minor third, two,
(25:08):
five, one.
That's called horse is itApparently in certain circles.
Geoff (25:14):
So that is an ending, a common kind of ending for a tune
as well, isn't it?
Well, I guess.
So A horse ending.
Yeah.
Nigel (25:24):
With all that in mind, if you really understand the
theory behind it, then there'sno reason why you shouldn't be
able to play All The Things YouAre in any key at the drop of a
hat.
Geoff (25:32):
By numbers, I suppose One , six, two, five, one.
I've got a few questions justto finish off.
Go on, that's all right, ofcourse.
Would you have a favouritealbum or an album that you could
say was a favourite?
Nigel (25:49):
I think Wes Montgomery's Full House takes a lot of
beating.
You know, there's just such agreat vibe on that and there's
people who are like whoopingmid-solo and everyone plays so
well on it, like JohnnyGriffin's on fire and and Wes
you know he's.
He's got a totally differentthing to everyone else, but he's
, he just delivers it with such.
He's just so strong and every,every tune's an absolute belter.
Geoff (26:11):
Is there a favourite musician, alive or dead, that
you would like to play with
Nigel (26:16):
God?
You know, I've never been askedthat before.
Really, I mean, there's a lotof musicians that I admire.
Are we talking about guitaristshere?
No no, any musician.
I don't know if I've got ananswer.
Really, I just think everyone'sgot something to bring.
Some people they're so easy toplay with.
There's some people that aren'treally known around the wider
(26:37):
world that I find amazing toplay with and by the same token.
I can play with other peoplethat have got a big name and
it's a little bit clunky betweenus.
Geoff (26:48):
You know, there's nothing wrong with either of us.
I guess that's because everyonefeels time differently, don't
they
Exactly.
And we have different tastes aswell.
You know, Some people don'twant to swing and some people
absolutely love it Great.
Do you think you've had a highlight of your career so far
?
Nigel (27:07):
I'll tell you, what sprung into my mind straight
away was selling out RonnieScott's twice in one night and
we did the Wes Reimagined albumwith the strings, wow.
And it was right in the middleof a big tour and we'd gone
everywhere.
We got right to Aberdeen, rightdown to St Ives, everywhere in
between, huge, whopping, greattour.
But I remember it was in thesecond set and and I just said
(27:28):
you know it's, it's, it's.
You know we put in, we workedso hard at this and we've been
all all around the all aroundthe country, but it's great to
come back to London and get thisdoesn't reception.
Geoff (27:36):
It doesn't get any better than that this kind of
reception, and I cried yeah, Iwept openly on stage.
I've had many moments where Icried on stage but we won't talk
about me.
Nigel (27:45):
Great, so I mean yeah, that was good, but to be honest,
I don't really mind just aslong as you're in a room full of
people who are loving it, thatyou went to.
No, this is terrible, isn't it?
I don't really go out much.
I went to see Peter Bernsteinand Jim Mullen together.
Geoff (28:02):
I was there actually in the 606.
Nigel (28:04):
And I thought that was the best thing I've ever seen in
my life.
I thought they were great yeah,I was there for the very first
one that they did and that wasreally exciting.
But somehow they I'm not sayingthey calmed down at all, but
but somehow they I'm not sayingthey calmed down at all, but
they sort of had the measure ofeach other and it just felt like
it gelled more than that firstone, and I thought it was
absolutely brilliant.
Geoff (28:24):
Jim Mullen is.
He's the kind of backbone ofthis country's jazz scene as far
as I'm concerned.
You know he gave me my firststart.
I used to play with his quartet.
You know, when I first startedhe was always so supportive.
Nigel (28:38):
I've got one of those albums actually.
Geoff (28:39):
Yeah, I mean, he would just always get people to sit in
, and he's such a gentleman,well, he also had a huge effect
on me.
Nigel (28:47):
Actually, I used to go and see him.
You know that was some of thefirst gigs that I went to see.
The first time I ever went to606 was to see Jim, and I asked
him for lessons years ago and.
I'm going to.
I'm going to stop myself fromdoing my Jim Mullen impression
right now.
I'm not going to do it, nomatter how much you ask me, but
um.
I asked you three times no, nogo on, go on.
Geoff (29:14):
It was a Jim Mullen quote what are you starting now?
Nigel (29:17):
um, I basically asked him for lessons and he said no yeah
and uh, and he said look, hesaid, um, I think it's far more
interesting when someone'sworked out for themselves, yeah,
yeah, and that just on its ownnot only saved me a fortune on
guitar lessons, but it meant theworld to me and I thought of
course, of course.
you know I'm watching thisunique voice.
Yeah, you know the greatestjazz guitarist I've ever seen
(29:39):
and he's got his own thing.
And of course you should go outand get your own thing, because
if you're always taking it offsomewhere else, somewhere else
and someone else, then you'realways going to be feeling that
you're.
Geoff (29:49):
Yeah, I did an album with him years ago called Pop Bop
Right, which was a quartet withhim on guitar, and what I
remember about him was turningup at the studio no amp on the
train, plugged his guitarstraight into the mixing desk
and it sounded great.
Right, and it's just.
It's Jim, it's amazing.
Nigel (30:10):
Yeah, he's incredible.
We love you, Jim.
Incredible.
Geoff (30:12):
Yeah, okay.
What would you say was yourmusical weakness?
Nigel (30:17):
My reading isn't very good.
Right, it's well.
I mean, you know how I startedout.
You know, when everyone elsewas at college I was going up
and down mountains with a gun.
You know, and I've really,really tried and I put time out.
I mean I'm not.
You know I'm sure there'speople that are worse readers
than me.
You know I do do some readinggigs, but you know I'm sure
(30:40):
there's people that are worsereaders than me.
You know I do do some readingkicks, but it's always hackles
are up.
Geoff (30:42):
You know, I'm looking, I'm looking at that.
That's quite common withguitarists, though, isn't it?
It's a guitarist disease.
Nigel (30:46):
Yeah, but there are some great readers out there
absolutely brilliant.
But sometimes I'm like lookingat the fire exit going oh my god
, yeah, yeah you know it's, uh,you know, especially with like
when the chords come up it.
You know this is that's out ofmy way, out of my comfort zone.
Geoff (31:01):
Yep.
Nigel (31:01):
But in a way that's um, that kind of forms you Um.
I remember being asked if Icould do a West End show in the
early nineties and I and I saidI don't really read, and the guy
said that's a thousand quid aweek, you know yeah and I was
absolutely crestfallen, but thenactually in hindsight um, it's,
(31:23):
you know, I can play complexstuff but maybe I just can't
read it.
Yeah, so I've ended up becoming,um, you're like forming my own
band and so giving, giving thehorrendous stuff to the people
to the sidemen.
Or, as I heard a little phrasethe other day, a bad reader,
great leader, I like.
Geoff (31:39):
I like that.
I like that.
Nigel (31:42):
So you know, it kind of forms you and maybe if I had
gone to the West End, maybe I'dstill be in the West End.
Geoff (31:46):
Yeah, do you?
Or did you ever get nervous onstage?
Nigel (31:50):
Yeah, I still do, especially when it's like you
know, when it's quite a bigstage and you're in the wings
and it's like you've just got togo up and face the whole
situation with your musicalityand hope that what you've been
doing is going to work out.
Geoff (32:03):
Yeah, well, the thing about jazz musicians is that
they can always resolve a note.
They play a wrong note and youcan only move it and it's… yeah,
whatever.
And you've played the rightnote, because you're never going
to be more than a semitone awayfrom a note that sounds good,
right.
Nigel (32:18):
Well, yeah in theory, yeah In theory.
Geoff (32:20):
Yeah, excellent.
Do you have a?
favourite sandwich
Nigel (32:25):
Sandwich.
Oh, you've asked me at theright time because I'm really
hungry.
Geoff (32:29):
I'll make you one after this.
Nigel (32:32):
I like the roast chicken stuffing sandwiches.
Oh, you know like those.
But I would say in my life I'veprobably eaten more tuna
sandwiches than anything else.
What about a favourite movie?
I've seen Jaws 47 times.
Really.
Yeah, 47, yeah, and every timeit comes on I think I cannot
watch this again, you know, andit's like I'll just watch to
(32:55):
that bit, you know.
Geoff (32:56):
And it's gonna need a bigger boat.
Nigel (32:59):
I know the whole thing, I know every line, but every
scene moves into the next scene,so well and it's just so like
the pace of it.
It's like a great jazz solo orsomething.
It's amazing.
Geoff (33:09):
Even though it's a rubber shark.
Yeah, what about a favouritecountry, city or somewhere you
play abroad?
Nigel (33:15):
I love Italy.
I love it.
I love Italy.
I love it.
My family have got connectionsout there.
I don't get out there enough.
There was a time when I used tospend a lot of, used to do a
load of gigs out there and Ithink I put on about three stone
.
Never lost it.
The food's amazing, the placeis beautiful, the people are
great, yeah, and it kind offeels like home.
Geoff (33:37):
I agree with you.
And finally have you got afavourite chord?
Nigel (33:42):
If anyone ever asks me for a photo, I'll play this one.
This is the chord of doom.
You have to see it, really youdo.
It's not really how it sounds,it's how it looks.
Geoff (33:55):
And that is.
Let me take a picture.
I think it's a John.
Nigel (33:58):
McLaughlin chord.
And that is.
Let me take a picture.
I think it's a John McLaughlinchord.
That's not a bad one.
Yeah, that's a bit of a fingerbreaker.
Geoff (34:12):
Amazing.
What are you doing at themoment?
What are you working on at themoment?
Nigel (34:17):
Well, I'm just getting the music together for this
album that's coming up with RossStanley and Joel Barford moment
.
Well, I'm just getting themusic together for this, uh,
this album that's coming up, um,with, uh, Ross Stanley and Joel
Barford, and Joel's got thisknack of just of naming an album
before it's happened.
And, um, I was saying that youknow I was going to get the tour
together and he went you knowyou have to kind of see this,
but you went, It's On, and sothe album's called It's On, it's
on, um, and uh, yeah, so I,yeah, so I've written it all
(34:41):
already.
Geoff (34:41):
What's your process for composing?
That's another thing I wasgoing to ask you and I never did
.
Nigel (34:45):
I have done a lot of contrafacts.
I know you have as well, andit's….
Geoff (34:51):
That's just for everyone to know.
You use an existing chordsequence and you write a new
melody
Nigel (34:56):
Exactly exactly.
I've done one for the new albumbased on uh Gee Baby, Ain't I
Good To You.
I've called it Splash The Cash,like sometimes the names come
first.
I I once did one on um SlowBoat to China.
We called it Junk.
So you know it's.
(35:16):
It's kind of a nice way ofworking because you know where
the goalposts are.
You know, you know pretty muchwhat the form.
A nice way of working becauseyou know where the goalposts are
, you know.
Geoff (35:20):
You know pretty much what the form is.
Once you get to the blowing,you're all comfortable, aren't
you?
Well?
Nigel (35:22):
exactly I mean, you know there is that too, yeah, but
sometimes they just they comealong and I don't really know
where they come from.
I mean, I've spent yearslearning, well, learning as many
standards as I can.
I suppose, and I think you know, it's possible for one to start
composing before one is ready,because you know what I ?
Geoff (35:46):
Well, composing is like practice, isn't it?
I mean, I've done a lot of it,so, gradually, I can do it
faster and I'm better at it, youknow.
But I know people do struggle.
Yeah, if they haven't done it,it's you know.
Where do we start?
What's the tools?
What's the process?
Nigel (36:01):
Almost the worst way is to try and force it.
You know, sometimes I'll say,right, I'm going to write
something really great, reallyclever.
Before you know it you'retrying to put all the really
sort of interesting cool tonesover something and you just come
up with something that soundslike really dodgy fusion or
something.
But the way it happens with mequickest is that I I usually
look at the band you know mytrio and just go yeah right, we
(36:24):
need something like this and mybrain says something like what,
and I go like this and it justgoes and just comes out almost
immediately.
Right, you know, it's got afeel in mind and it's, and I'm
thinking about it's only a smallband and that it just sparks
off things for me, but I don'twrite anything particularly hard
(36:44):
.
Geoff (36:44):
Do you write when you don't have an album in mind?
Nigel (36:47):
I think it's a frame of mind and I use that for
practising as well.
Like, sometimes, I just kind ofjust get into this zone where I
can imagine being on the stageand actually playing and
suddenly, personally, I feelthat I'm coming out with stuff
that I can almost feel like I'mthere and I can use it, and you
know, whatever I'm doing and Ifeel the same about composition,
(37:09):
I actually feel that I'm there.
Oh, this would be great if thishappened on the stage.
You know, and it just sort ofcomes out.
Geoff (37:16):
Yeah, all right.
Well, that will wrap it up, Ithink, okay.
Thank you so much for your time.
Nigel (37:21):
It's an absolute pleasure .
You know, no one ever talks tome about jazz.
Oh, I love it.
That's great.
I know you do, I know You're anenthusiast yeah.
Announcement (37:38):
You know I talk to the end of another podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet jazz standardspodcast is a UK Music Apps
production Quartet for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
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Hello Podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here.
Today I'm speaking to thewonderful guitar player, Nigel
Price.
He's coming round to my house.
We're going to talk all aboutthe guitar and about jazz
standards, about being in thearmy, running a quartet and
loads of other jazzy stuff likethat.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:38):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS.
Taking your jazz play along toanother level.
Here we are.
How are you today?
Nigel (00:49):
I'm not too bad, all things considered.
Geoff (00:51):
We've not really sat down before and chatted that much.
How did you start getting intojazz?
Nigel (00:56):
Well, it was just a kind of survival thing really.
I started playing when I was 11.
Just got right into it, got thebug.
You know, as you do, you can'tleave it alone.
Ridiculous practice days.
Geoff (01:07):
Where did you grow up?
Nigel (01:08):
In Epsom in Surrey, I still live there yeah, not in
the same house, but, yeah, therewas never a reason to move out.
It's close enough to London andI've got family there as well,
so it's great.
You know, it was kind ofevolution, I suppose.
I mean, I, I started outplaying blues, but it was always
very sociable.
I'd always have a band, butthen I soon came to realize that
if you didn't sing and you werejust a blues guitar player,
(01:31):
then there wasn't an awful lotof opportunity really.
I used to get these crazy bandstogether and we used to play
blues, and then we sort ofstarted venturing to fusion and
that sort of thing, um, and thatin turn led to sort of finding
out about some of the morejazzier side of things.
The whole thing was interruptedwhen I joined the infantry at
16, ah, so I had to leave it allalone for ages, you know
Geoff (01:53):
how long were you, did you do your service for?
Nigel (01:55):
Three years 262 days wow, not that I was counting, but
that's, that's another whole.
So you weren't in a militaryband no no, no, no, I was no, I
was in infantry.
I was just cannon fodder.
I was a steely-eyed cleaner ofthe night.
Where did you go?
I spent a couple of years inNorthern Ireland, went to Canada
and then stationed inShropshire.
Geoff (02:15):
Three that enjoyable?
Nigel (02:18):
Well, I mean to a point, I really screwed up at school
really badly.
So I went to a sort of grammarschool and I was into the music
and I used to sort of do thehouse music.
Did you not think there was acareer in music?
I wasn't getting any supportthere because unless you played
piano then they didn't reallywant to know, or unless you had
piano lessons.
So none of my family weremusicians.
(02:39):
I don't really know where itcame from, but I messed up quite
badly at school, ended upgetting kind of thrown out.
My brother had just joined theRoyal Marines about a year
before, and he's coming back allwindswept and interesting and I
thought, okay, let's do thisand I guess it was character
building, wasn't it?
I think it's got to have aneffect, doesn't it?
In fact, I had a sort ofepiphany just a few years back,
(03:01):
because I was a lance corporalin the in the end, which means
you're in charge of a four-mansection and I suddenly realized
that I was traveling around thecountry in charge of a four-man
team that's what exactly you'redoing now god you know yeah
I mean maybe, maybe it's, maybethey got inside my head a bit
more than I thought, surely thatgave you the discipline, didn't
it to you know, run a, run aband.
(03:22):
For example, I don't, I don'tknow, I mean, who's to say what
it would have been like anyother way.
But yeah, I mean, I do treat itlike a sort of mission, I
suppose.
Geoff (03:32):
Yeah, because I've seen some of your tours that they're
really long and exhausting,aren't they?
Yeah, I think 2016 was 56 dates.
So when did you startimprovising, do you remember?
Nigel (03:47):
What happened really was that after I left the army I was
very driven and forming bandsand they always used to sort of
fall apart or there'd bepolitics and all that sort of
thing.
And it just felt like the chainwas as strong as the weakest
link.
Well, that's kind of true injazz, though, isn't?
Geoff (04:00):
it.
Nigel (04:00):
Well it is true, it is true.
But what I sort of consideredwas that if I could be just like
a lone gun, like a hired hand,and if I could learn a lot of
standards and improvise, then Icould, as a sideline, even just
go out on my own.
You know, and you know, if youdon't like the drummer or
whatever, or the bass player orwhoever, then you never have to
(04:21):
play with them again becauseit's just a one-night stand,
isn't it?
And so I just decided to tryand get as good at that as
possible.
What was your process forgetting good?
Did you transcribe stuff?
There was a certain amount ofthat, definitely.
But I remember hearing fromsomeone it's gone now into the
(04:43):
mists of time about peoplesaying don't emulate, don't
actually take anything down anduse it, because you're just
going to be regurgitatingeverything.
So I'd sort of hear somethingand work it out and then try and
twist it around and try andmake it my own, trying to create
my own language.
I suppose that was my mainfocus, really trying to end up
(05:06):
with a, with a sort of uniquebut isn't.
Geoff (05:08):
Isn't um copying someone?
Isn't that part of the learningprocess?
Oh yeah, no, of course you dothat as well.
Nigel (05:13):
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah but I'd, I'd, I'd be more
inclined to sort of take a stepback and say, when I'm listening
to Joe Pass or whatever youknow, it's not just the notes,
it's about the, the vibe and theand the kind of the pace of it
all and just the sort of umsounds a bit hippie, but like
the soundscape of it all.
You know, sort of take a stepback and look at the whole thing
, rather than actually sort ofgo right inside and nick this
(05:35):
lick and that lick and that lick.
Geoff (05:37):
So who are your heroes?
Who were your first kind ofjazz inspiration?
I suppose well it's.
Nigel (05:43):
It's odd, isn't it?
Because we're all after thefact, aren't we?
You know, I mean, I was born in69.
You know the real classics wereeither getting on or gone by
then.
So it's always going to belooking back.
The stuff that was happening atthat time was things like John
Schofield and Pat Metheny andthings like that, and I just
thought, well, okay, I'm justgoing to have a little look back
in history just so I canunderstand the reference points.
(06:05):
Just for a year or two I justjumped down the rabbit hole and
I kind of never came out.
You know, I had no idea aboutall these players like Tal
Farlow and Joe Pass and Wes, and, to be honest, I kind of
consume all my music on the road.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
You've just got hours and hoursand hours on your own.
I consume all my music on theroad.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
You've just got hours and hoursand hours on your own.
(06:26):
I mean, it's a pretty lonelylife really.
You know, you practise on yourown at home, and then you get in
the car and you're on your own,yeah, and you turn up and
you're all excited at the gig.
You actually talk to some humanbeings.
Geoff (06:34):
Yeah, would you say, you ever use licks.
Nigel (06:45):
Is that something that you ever thought?
Did you take licks from otherplayers and did you put them
into your own play?
There was some of that.
I remember going round atrumpet player's house once and
he'd done loads oftranscriptions like thousands of
them, and he was asking me if Itranscribed stuff and I
explained pretty much what I didto you and then we played
together and he said, well,where's all this stuff coming
from?
He said, have you just workedit out with the chord tones?
And I said, well, yeah, and Ithink coming from.
(07:10):
He said, have you just workedit out with the chord tones?
And I said, well, yeah, and um,and I think it's all there.
Actually, if you do that, justjust sort of um, put the good
chord, you know the chord toneson the downbeats and the and the
altered notes, then it justfalls into place.
It just sounds like Joe Passimmediately.
You know, I wish it was thatsimple.
I mean, it kind of is in a way.
Yeah, I could demonstrate,could demonstrate if you like
you can I love it?
Go ahead.
I spent a lot of time turningthe microscope on learning.
(07:32):
Well, I guess in hindsight I'dcall it voice leading.
Say so, here's the firstarpeggio, if you want.
So here's C minor in order, andthen change to the next
available note of the nextarpeggio.
If you want.
So here's c minor in order, andthen change to the next
available note of the nextarpeggio, which is going to be c
for f, F7, then the flat seven,and then flat nine, uh, and
(08:00):
then the next available in bflat, which is going to be major
seven.
Geoff (08:03):
You mean the closest, the next closest note, don't you?
Yeah, yeah.
Nigel (08:07):
Yeah, yeah and it's.
I spent an incredible amount oftime doing all this in groups
of five frets all over the neck.
I spent about three hours a dayfor seven years doing that.
That was just a part of mypractice to a metronome and that
just seemed to iron outvirtually everything you know.
(08:28):
So now when I'm improvising,you know I'm not thinking about
the numbers per se, but I cancall them out.
You know, as I'm doing it likeone three, three, three, four,
four, two three, 13, major seven, major seven, one flat nine.
(08:57):
That was one, so I'm alwaysaware of where all the really
good chords are.
Do you teach?
Geoff (09:04):
Do you do much teaching or any teaching, if someone asks
me for a lesson, I say no.
Nigel (09:12):
And if someone asks me again, I'll say no.
And if they have the bare-facedcheek to ask me a third time,
then I'll consider it.
Geoff (09:18):
Okay, would you give me a lesson?
No, can you give me a lesson?
No, go on, just give me alesson.
Nigel (09:26):
All right?
Geoff (09:26):
no, can you give me a lesson?
No, go on, just give me alesson, all right then.
Yeah, that works, that was easy.
I've been learning guitar forthe since lockdown, um, which is
why I've got these guitars hereand I started playing classical
guitar, but I'm sort of gettinginto jazz guitar I.
I find it's totallymind-boggling how many shapes
there are.
Nigel (09:39):
Yes, well, that's that's why I did this.
It just shows you all the shapes, if you, if you play within
like a five fret yeah group itshows you everything yeah,
Geoff (09:47):
But just the difference between a shape on the first
four strings and then the secondto the fifth, and it's just
mind-boggling.
Did you have a process for forgetting them in order,
Nigel (09:56):
or well, yeah, I mean it's um, I uh, it was possible,
um, to just go through the um,the fourths for, but in fact
what I did is make pages andpages and pages of random notes,
just so I had to learn them,but just for the sake of it.
Now we could go around infourths.
If you like, I'm just going toplay, say, major seven arpeggios
, major seven arpeggios In thefirst five frets, no open
(10:17):
strings.
Okay, so we just go C.
Okay.
And then change to the nextavailable note F and then B flat
.
E flat, A flat B flat.
G flat B, E.
(10:39):
And A, I'm allowed to use thebottom one For that one.
Geoff (10:43):
D G Back to the start and that's just showed you every
single yeah shape okay, so youcould do that with with chords
as well.
Nigel (10:54):
Cool voices as well yeah, so I did that for all of the
kind of cool.
You know well everything, butthat's just the start of it,
doesn't it you got?
Well, I mean, it's just's justkind of knowing where to put
your fingers and I guess for the, you know, for the rules I mean
it was actually learning tunesthat like showed me a lot of
this stuff.
Things like I don't know, likeminor seven flat five.
(11:17):
You know, arguably the firstchord of Stella by Starlight and
that's the fourth.
Yeah, that's the fourth on thehalf diminished chord.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like Beautiful Love.
The same yeah, and it's.
There's like things that keeppopping up and I thought, well,
(11:38):
if that's a choice that's madewith melody, then that's
straight in there, you's.
So, although it could be deemedan arpeggio, you know, I'm just
going to stick that fourth in,so, instead of just going, now
it's it's not like a theorything, it's more like a melody
(12:00):
thing.
Yeah, I've always tried to pullit back to that.
Melody first.
Geoff (12:04):
Excellent what?
about your sound, your sound.
Did you take your a while toget a good sound or was it?
Is that driven by the kind ofguitar that you play?
Nigel (12:14):
it's, it partly just is what it is, isn't it?
I mean if you, you know, if youget, yeah, I mean if you were
playing a Telecaster forsomething you wouldn't sound the
same you wouldn't sound thesame.
I wouldn't play a, wouldn't playa Telecaster yeah, no, I don't
know, I might do nothing againstTelecasters.
No, no, but it's.
I mean there's, that's quite abig question, but it, yeah, I
mean that that also feeds intowhat.
What do you want to be known?
For yeah what do you, what doyou want to be known for?
I mean I don't really go out anddo anything else.
(12:37):
You know, don't do rock gigs orcountry gigs or yeah, or many
pop gigs.
Yeah, you, I will do if someonepays me enough.
Do you own a Telecaster?
I do actually.
Yeah, but I only own aTelecaster because Lorne Lofsky,
the great guitar player, cameover and I knew that he had a
Telecaster, so I got it set upexactly how he wanted it, bought
it just so he'd be happy.
I do love Telecasters yeah.
(12:59):
Yeah.
Geoff (13:01):
I do.
Nigel (13:02):
You hear Ted Green play it and oh yeah, no, of course of
course, but for me I needsomething really wide, so you
can sort of sit on your knee andjust feel sort of like
ergonomically they just fit inwith your body.
Geoff (13:12):
Well, your guitar is gorgeous.
What's that?
A Fibonacci?
Nigel (13:14):
It's a Fibonacci Londoner .
It's really nice.
I designed it.
Yeah Well asked what dimensionsI wanted.
Geoff (13:22):
Fibonacci, that's an English company isn't it it?
Is they build them in WorcesterPark, wow that's handy.
Nigel (13:27):
It's the only UK jazz guitar company.
is that right?
There isn't another one.
Geoff (13:32):
It sounds very continental-o, doesn't it?
It sounds kind of Well.
Is that?
deliberate, or is there a MrFibonacci?
Nigel (13:39):
Well, I helped design this pickup as well.
Geoff (13:41):
Did you?
Nigel (13:42):
It's a floating humbucker but it's got the same footprint
as a full-size humbucker butit's floating.
Geoff (13:49):
Wow, and you just don't get those Incredible.
Nigel (13:52):
There's one guy in Germany called Boris Domengett
who does one.
There's one guy in Germanycalled Boris Domengett who does
one, but I worked with a guy,funnily enough, in Gypsy Hill,
just around the corner, isn't it?
A guy called John Dickinson,and and we came up with this we,
we figured out what wire theyused to use in the old PAFs and
all that.
So it's, it's a real piece ofwork, yeah.
Geoff (14:10):
It is amazing.
Yeah, but you can buy thatguitar.
Can you do the same as thatsomewhere?
You could if you wanted to.
Yes, okay.
Nigel (14:16):
If you had enough money.
Geoff (14:19):
And they're expensive.
Yeah Well, they're over sevengrand I think Are they.
Right?
Nigel (14:21):
But back to the sound thing.
I mean, actually it's not untilyou get a little bit older that
sometimes I listen back to whatI was doing in my 20s and I'm
like, oh for God's sake, youknow, it's.
Geoff (14:33):
So, in terms of practising, do you practise much
?
I mean, I know you're playing alot, but do you practise?
Nigel (14:38):
Yeah, I practise about three hours every morning.
I invented this thing.
It was called the jazz wheeland the very first one was six
standards, and then there's 12groups of frets.
Geoff (14:47):
Yeah.
Nigel (14:48):
And so I had them lined up with whatever groups of frets
Like I'd play All The ThingsYou Are so randomising where
you're playing, yeah.
Yeah, and then when I was happywith you know, when I felt
comfortable, I'd just click thewhole thing and then play the
all the different standards inall the different groups, yeah,
and so there's a very definitebeginning and end to that and I
could map it out and I couldactually see how long it was
(15:08):
going to take.
Wow, I did the jazz wheelnumber two, which is 12
standards, and it just it was soexhausting but I did it.
And then I started a third oneand I actually bailed after
about three months.
Geoff (15:23):
So I presume you were just playing with a click, or
you were playing with a backingtrack or what.
Nigel (15:28):
Well, you know, when you first start off doing this voice
leading thing, it's really hardto do it to a click because
it's hard, yeah, and it took alittle while, but having a click
because it's hard.
Geoff (15:36):
Yeah, and it took a little while, but having a click
puts a time pressure on itdoesn't it?
Nigel (15:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Geoff (15:40):
You know, if you're just sitting there and playing sort
of out of time, then it's kindof not the same, is it?
Nigel (15:46):
No, you're right.
I mean, I guess we're talkingabout time feel.
And yeah, you know, I did havea metronome for a while, don't
worry.
Worry, I know the plug's comingup.
No, it's fine it's fine.
I had a wind up metronome and Iused to wind it up.
Oh, one of those, thosetriangular ones everyone has on
their piano yeah so, and youknow, I'd wind it up twice and
(16:09):
it would last about three hours,but I guess what we're building
up to is talking aboutPlayalongs, playalongs yes.
And, of course you know, yearsago you had the Jamey Aeber
solds, which was all right.
Geoff (16:22):
It's okay if you had a good trio.
Some of them were a bit patchy,weren't they?
Yeah?
Nigel (16:27):
and it's you know.
Get the needle on them, runback to the guitar.
That was all right.
I didn't have loads of them andthey were expensive.
And then, of course, the iRealbook comes along and destroys.
Jamey.
Geoff (16:41):
Ae bersold's empire.
You mean the app iReal.
Nigel (16:43):
You mean yeah, the iReal app yeah.
But of course it just soundsterrible.
You know, it's just awful.
Geoff (16:49):
Yes.
Nigel (16:50):
And it's the most uninspirational thing.
You'll get sick of it.
You might become tired of yourimprovisation before it reaches
the amount of choruses that youprogrammed, and that's no way to
be.
If you're improvising, gettingsick of the noise that's coming
out, I hate that.
So what you've done with theQuartet apps is fantastic Not
only that one, but the SessionBand before that because it just
(17:12):
sounds brilliant and it justmakes you feel like you're
actually playing with people.
Geoff (17:22):
When I choose to go into performance mode at home.
Yeah, I know you've done some,made some YouTube.
Nigel (17:26):
Um, yeah, movies, haven't you.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I justthink it really, really deserves
to be out there well, it'senormously helpful.
Geoff (17:30):
I'm really grateful for you to do that.
I asked you about picking atune to play along.
So which track did you pick?
All The Things You Are.
Nigel (17:43):
All The Things You Are, all the chords there are.
Geoff (17:45):
You were talking about playing in a particular area of
the guitar.
Yeah, if you could pick a fewfrets and try and play through
the whole sequence just withinthose frets.
Nigel (17:57):
Do you mean, can I put my money where my mouth is?
Geoff (17:59):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Nigel (18:01):
Yeah, maybe.
Which group of frets do youwant?
Five to nine, maybe five tonine.
Geoff (18:05):
All right, yeah, all right.
So we have an introduction.
Let's, let's see how it goes.
There we go, thank, you so?
Nigel (20:14):
do do Got away with it.
Geoff (20:18):
You certainly did, you certainly did.
Stanley
Nigel (20:20):
, I did creep out of the zone a couple of times there.
Geoff (20:24):
I saw your left hand just wanting to go and creep up.
Nigel (20:27):
I wanted to.
Geoff (20:27):
You stayed there.
Yeah, how did that feel then,when you were boxed in, if you
like.
Nigel (20:38):
Well, it just forces you to play certain positions.
I could do the same thing in adifferent, in a different group
of frets, and it would just feel, yeah, feel different.
Geoff (20:42):
But so, going back to the , to the practice apps,
obviously there's piano and youcan use different mixes.
Yes, do you always just use thepiano trio?
Nigel (20:50):
No, I've done a few things.
I'm not sure if you've seeneventually where I just I just
keep the bass and drums, right,I mean I would be interested to
hear you play.
Geoff (21:02):
Would you be up for playing another?
Nigel (21:04):
chorus with just the bass and the drums.
On what tune?
Geoff (21:07):
On the same tune.
All right, okay, is that allright?
Yeah, of course.
Okay, let me just get the tuneup and I'll flip it to the
alternate mix, which will be thebass and drums.
Nigel (22:29):
All right, thank you.
Thank you fantastic, that wasso good.
(23:24):
I'd be more inclined to sticksome chords in, I suppose there
being a bit of space yeah, it'sjust, I mean, that was so good.
Geoff (23:32):
Yeah, just so much in this, of course.
Nigel (23:35):
Of course the other thing which you know, is that you can
change the key, and I've madethis quite an important part of
it as well.
I mean, maybe this is getting abit nerdy, but like something,
like All The Things You Are,it's a tune that was always
going to be written.
So it's an A flat, but all ofthe key centers are just built
(23:58):
around uh, a flat major seven.
So the first one's a flat andthen the next one's a third is c
and the next one's e flat, nextone's g yeah and so they never
thought of that, you know.
So then you've just got six uhuh of a flat uh, and then two of
a flat, five of A flat, andthen 2 of A flat, 5 of A flat, 1
, 4, and then we've just got 5into the 3rd, and then we're
(24:21):
doing the same thing 6, 6 of Eflat, which is the 5.
2, 5 of 2, sorry, 5 of E flat,and then the last one is going
to be 5 into the major 7, whichis G major.
Two, five into that, and thenit looks like we're going minor
(24:44):
but we're going major, major,yeah, and then we're just fiving
back into the original formula.
So two, six, five, one.
And then there's this thing wewere doing a gypsy gig and
someone shouted horse at me andI was like what the hell are you
talking about?
I asked him afterwards.
He said it's the old war horse.
It's four, four minor threediminished on minor third, two,
(25:08):
five, one.
That's called horse is itApparently in certain circles.
Geoff (25:14):
So that is an ending, a common kind of ending for a tune
as well, isn't it?
Well, I guess.
So A horse ending.
Yeah.
Nigel (25:24):
With all that in mind, if you really understand the
theory behind it, then there'sno reason why you shouldn't be
able to play All The Things YouAre in any key at the drop of a
hat.
Geoff (25:32):
By numbers, I suppose One , six, two, five, one.
I've got a few questions justto finish off.
Go on, that's all right, ofcourse.
Would you have a favouritealbum or an album that you could
say was a favourite?
Nigel (25:49):
I think Wes Montgomery's Full House takes a lot of
beating.
You know, there's just such agreat vibe on that and there's
people who are like whoopingmid-solo and everyone plays so
well on it, like JohnnyGriffin's on fire and and Wes
you know he's.
He's got a totally differentthing to everyone else, but he's
, he just delivers it with such.
He's just so strong and every,every tune's an absolute belter.
Geoff (26:11):
Is there a favourite musician, alive or dead, that
you would like to play with
Nigel (26:16):
God?
You know, I've never been askedthat before.
Really, I mean, there's a lotof musicians that I admire.
Are we talking about guitaristshere?
No no, any musician.
I don't know if I've got ananswer.
Really, I just think everyone'sgot something to bring.
Some people they're so easy toplay with.
There's some people that aren'treally known around the wider
(26:37):
world that I find amazing toplay with and by the same token.
I can play with other peoplethat have got a big name and
it's a little bit clunky betweenus.
Geoff (26:48):
You know, there's nothing wrong with either of us.
I guess that's because everyonefeels time differently, don't
they
Exactly.
And we have different tastes aswell.
You know, Some people don'twant to swing and some people
absolutely love it Great.
Do you think you've had a highlight of your career so far
?
Nigel (27:07):
I'll tell you, what sprung into my mind straight
away was selling out RonnieScott's twice in one night and
we did the Wes Reimagined albumwith the strings, wow.
And it was right in the middleof a big tour and we'd gone
everywhere.
We got right to Aberdeen, rightdown to St Ives, everywhere in
between, huge, whopping, greattour.
But I remember it was in thesecond set and and I just said
(27:28):
you know it's, it's, it's.
You know we put in, we workedso hard at this and we've been
all all around the all aroundthe country, but it's great to
come back to London and get thisdoesn't reception.
Geoff (27:36):
It doesn't get any better than that this kind of
reception, and I cried yeah, Iwept openly on stage.
I've had many moments where Icried on stage but we won't talk
about me.
Nigel (27:45):
Great, so I mean yeah, that was good, but to be honest,
I don't really mind just aslong as you're in a room full of
people who are loving it, thatyou went to.
No, this is terrible, isn't it?
I don't really go out much.
I went to see Peter Bernsteinand Jim Mullen together.
Geoff (28:02):
I was there actually in the 606.
Nigel (28:04):
And I thought that was the best thing I've ever seen in
my life.
I thought they were great yeah,I was there for the very first
one that they did and that wasreally exciting.
But somehow they I'm not sayingthey calmed down at all, but
but somehow they I'm not sayingthey calmed down at all, but
they sort of had the measure ofeach other and it just felt like
it gelled more than that firstone, and I thought it was
absolutely brilliant.
Geoff (28:24):
Jim Mullen is.
He's the kind of backbone ofthis country's jazz scene as far
as I'm concerned.
You know he gave me my firststart.
I used to play with his quartet.
You know, when I first startedhe was always so supportive.
Nigel (28:38):
I've got one of those albums actually.
Geoff (28:39):
Yeah, I mean, he would just always get people to sit in
, and he's such a gentleman,well, he also had a huge effect
on me.
Nigel (28:47):
Actually, I used to go and see him.
You know that was some of thefirst gigs that I went to see.
The first time I ever went to606 was to see Jim, and I asked
him for lessons years ago and.
I'm going to.
I'm going to stop myself fromdoing my Jim Mullen impression
right now.
I'm not going to do it, nomatter how much you ask me, but
um.
I asked you three times no, nogo on, go on.
Geoff (29:14):
It was a Jim Mullen quote what are you starting now?
Nigel (29:17):
um, I basically asked him for lessons and he said no yeah
and uh, and he said look, hesaid, um, I think it's far more
interesting when someone'sworked out for themselves, yeah,
yeah, and that just on its ownnot only saved me a fortune on
guitar lessons, but it meant theworld to me and I thought of
course, of course.
you know I'm watching thisunique voice.
Yeah, you know the greatestjazz guitarist I've ever seen
(29:39):
and he's got his own thing.
And of course you should go outand get your own thing, because
if you're always taking it offsomewhere else, somewhere else
and someone else, then you'realways going to be feeling that
you're.
Geoff (29:49):
Yeah, I did an album with him years ago called Pop Bop
Right, which was a quartet withhim on guitar, and what I
remember about him was turningup at the studio no amp on the
train, plugged his guitarstraight into the mixing desk
and it sounded great.
Right, and it's just.
It's Jim, it's amazing.
Nigel (30:10):
Yeah, he's incredible.
We love you, Jim.
Incredible.
Geoff (30:12):
Yeah, okay.
What would you say was yourmusical weakness?
Nigel (30:17):
My reading isn't very good.
Right, it's well.
I mean, you know how I startedout.
You know, when everyone elsewas at college I was going up
and down mountains with a gun.
You know, and I've really,really tried and I put time out.
I mean I'm not.
You know I'm sure there'speople that are worse readers
than me.
You know I do do some readinggigs, but you know I'm sure
(30:40):
there's people that are worsereaders than me.
You know I do do some readingkicks, but it's always hackles
are up.
Geoff (30:42):
You know, I'm looking, I'm looking at that.
That's quite common withguitarists, though, isn't it?
It's a guitarist disease.
Nigel (30:46):
Yeah, but there are some great readers out there
absolutely brilliant.
But sometimes I'm like lookingat the fire exit going oh my god
, yeah, yeah you know it's, uh,you know, especially with like
when the chords come up it.
You know this is that's out ofmy way, out of my comfort zone.
Geoff (31:01):
Yep.
Nigel (31:01):
But in a way that's um, that kind of forms you Um.
I remember being asked if Icould do a West End show in the
early nineties and I and I saidI don't really read, and the guy
said that's a thousand quid aweek, you know yeah and I was
absolutely crestfallen, but thenactually in hindsight um, it's,
(31:23):
you know, I can play complexstuff but maybe I just can't
read it.
Yeah, so I've ended up becoming,um, you're like forming my own
band and so giving, giving thehorrendous stuff to the people
to the sidemen.
Or, as I heard a little phrasethe other day, a bad reader,
great leader, I like.
Geoff (31:39):
I like that.
I like that.
Nigel (31:42):
So you know, it kind of forms you and maybe if I had
gone to the West End, maybe I'dstill be in the West End.
Geoff (31:46):
Yeah, do you?
Or did you ever get nervous onstage?
Nigel (31:50):
Yeah, I still do, especially when it's like you
know, when it's quite a bigstage and you're in the wings
and it's like you've just got togo up and face the whole
situation with your musicalityand hope that what you've been
doing is going to work out.
Geoff (32:03):
Yeah, well, the thing about jazz musicians is that
they can always resolve a note.
They play a wrong note and youcan only move it and it's… yeah,
whatever.
And you've played the rightnote, because you're never going
to be more than a semitone awayfrom a note that sounds good,
right.
Nigel (32:18):
Well, yeah in theory, yeah In theory.
Geoff (32:20):
Yeah, excellent.
Do you have a?
favourite sandwich
Nigel (32:25):
Sandwich.
Oh, you've asked me at theright time because I'm really
hungry.
Geoff (32:29):
I'll make you one after this.
Nigel (32:32):
I like the roast chicken stuffing sandwiches.
Oh, you know like those.
But I would say in my life I'veprobably eaten more tuna
sandwiches than anything else.
What about a favourite movie?
I've seen Jaws 47 times.
Really.
Yeah, 47, yeah, and every timeit comes on I think I cannot
watch this again, you know, andit's like I'll just watch to
(32:55):
that bit, you know.
Geoff (32:56):
And it's gonna need a bigger boat.
Nigel (32:59):
I know the whole thing, I know every line, but every
scene moves into the next scene,so well and it's just so like
the pace of it.
It's like a great jazz solo orsomething.
It's amazing.
Geoff (33:09):
Even though it's a rubber shark.
Yeah, what about a favouritecountry, city or somewhere you
play abroad?
Nigel (33:15):
I love Italy.
I love it.
I love Italy.
I love it.
My family have got connectionsout there.
I don't get out there enough.
There was a time when I used tospend a lot of, used to do a
load of gigs out there and Ithink I put on about three stone
.
Never lost it.
The food's amazing, the placeis beautiful, the people are
great, yeah, and it kind offeels like home.
Geoff (33:37):
I agree with you.
And finally have you got afavourite chord?
Nigel (33:42):
If anyone ever asks me for a photo, I'll play this one.
This is the chord of doom.
You have to see it, really youdo.
It's not really how it sounds,it's how it looks.
Geoff (33:55):
And that is.
Let me take a picture.
I think it's a John.
Nigel (33:58):
McLaughlin chord.
And that is.
Let me take a picture.
I think it's a John McLaughlinchord.
That's not a bad one.
Yeah, that's a bit of a fingerbreaker.
Geoff (34:12):
Amazing.
What are you doing at themoment?
What are you working on at themoment?
Nigel (34:17):
Well, I'm just getting the music together for this
album that's coming up with RossStanley and Joel Barford moment
.
Well, I'm just getting themusic together for this, uh,
this album that's coming up, um,with, uh, Ross Stanley and Joel
Barford, and Joel's got thisknack of just of naming an album
before it's happened.
And, um, I was saying that youknow I was going to get the tour
together and he went you knowyou have to kind of see this,
but you went, It's On, and sothe album's called It's On, it's
on, um, and uh, yeah, so I,yeah, so I've written it all
(34:41):
already.
Geoff (34:41):
What's your process for composing?
That's another thing I wasgoing to ask you and I never did
.
Nigel (34:45):
I have done a lot of contrafacts.
I know you have as well, andit's….
Geoff (34:51):
That's just for everyone to know.
You use an existing chordsequence and you write a new
melody
Nigel (34:56):
Exactly exactly.
I've done one for the new albumbased on uh Gee Baby, Ain't I
Good To You.
I've called it Splash The Cash,like sometimes the names come
first.
I I once did one on um SlowBoat to China.
We called it Junk.
So you know it's.
(35:16):
It's kind of a nice way ofworking because you know where
the goalposts are.
You know, you know pretty muchwhat the form.
A nice way of working becauseyou know where the goalposts are
, you know.
Geoff (35:20):
You know pretty much what the form is.
Once you get to the blowing,you're all comfortable, aren't
you?
Well?
Nigel (35:22):
exactly I mean, you know there is that too, yeah, but
sometimes they just they comealong and I don't really know
where they come from.
I mean, I've spent yearslearning, well, learning as many
standards as I can.
I suppose, and I think you know, it's possible for one to start
composing before one is ready,because you know what I ?
Geoff (35:46):
Well, composing is like practice, isn't it?
I mean, I've done a lot of it,so, gradually, I can do it
faster and I'm better at it, youknow.
But I know people do struggle.
Yeah, if they haven't done it,it's you know.
Where do we start?
What's the tools?
What's the process?
Nigel (36:01):
Almost the worst way is to try and force it.
You know, sometimes I'll say,right, I'm going to write
something really great, reallyclever.
Before you know it you'retrying to put all the really
sort of interesting cool tonesover something and you just come
up with something that soundslike really dodgy fusion or
something.
But the way it happens with mequickest is that I I usually
look at the band you know mytrio and just go yeah right, we
(36:24):
need something like this and mybrain says something like what,
and I go like this and it justgoes and just comes out almost
immediately.
Right, you know, it's got afeel in mind and it's, and I'm
thinking about it's only a smallband and that it just sparks
off things for me, but I don'twrite anything particularly hard
(36:44):
.
Geoff (36:44):
Do you write when you don't have an album in mind?
Nigel (36:47):
I think it's a frame of mind and I use that for
practising as well.
Like, sometimes, I just kind ofjust get into this zone where I
can imagine being on the stageand actually playing and
suddenly, personally, I feelthat I'm coming out with stuff
that I can almost feel like I'mthere and I can use it, and you
know, whatever I'm doing and Ifeel the same about composition,
(37:09):
I actually feel that I'm there.
Oh, this would be great if thishappened on the stage.
You know, and it just sort ofcomes out.
Geoff (37:16):
Yeah, all right.
Well, that will wrap it up, Ithink, okay.
Thank you so much for your time.
Nigel (37:21):
It's an absolute pleasure .
You know, no one ever talks tome about jazz.
Oh, I love it.
That's great.
I know you do, I know You're anenthusiast yeah.
Announcement (37:38):
You know I talk to the end of another podcast.
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