July 10, 2025 • 26 mins
In the tranquil setting of Hertfordshire, England, Geoff sits down with the legendary tenor saxophonist Alan Skidmore, a musical force whose extraordinary career spans nearly seven decades. At 83, Alan's recollections are sharp, his stories captivating, and his legacy in jazz undeniable.
The conversation begins with Alan's reluctant entry into music. After failing his school qualifications and enduring what he describes as "dodgy day jobs", the 15-year-old Skidmore finally turned to the saxophone his father had given him two years earlier. What follows is a fascinating account of his father's strict teaching methods – forcing him to practice scales for hours, developing his sound through “long notes”, and immersing him in the music of Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young. This rigorous foundation launched a lifetime devoted to jazz.
The narrative takes a profound turn when Alan recounts witnessing John Coltrane perform live in 1961. Just 19 years old at the time, he watched in awe as Coltrane played ‘My Favourite Things’ on soprano saxophone for an entire hour. This transformative experience solidified Coltrane's position as "the greatest saxophone player I've ever heard in my life" in Alan's estimation.
Perhaps the most moving segment comes when Alan shares his experience playing with Coltrane's drummer, Elvin Jones, at Ronnie Scott's. His description of Jones as "such a lovely person" and "an unbelievable nice, genuine, decent guy" offers a heartwarming glimpse into the character behind the legendary musician. Equally remarkable is the story of Michael Brecker thanking Alan because it was Skidmore's solo with John Mayall and Eric Clapton on ‘Have You Heard’ (‘The Beano album’) in 1966 that inspired Brecker to play saxophone – a testament to Alan's influence on even the greatest players of subsequent generations. Alan tries out the Quartet app for the first time with a spontaneous Blues in E Flat.
The conversation weaves through Alan's session work, including recording with The Beatles, his fifty-year stint with Georgie Fame, and his critically acclaimed six-CD anthology that was voted box set of the year in New York. Throughout it all, Alan's humility shines, whether discussing his musical weaknesses or sharing wisdom about encouraging fellow musicians.
This episode offers more than just a journey through jazz history – it's a masterclass in musical lineage, the power of influence, and the human connections that define a life in music. Whether you're a jazz aficionado or simply appreciate remarkable life stories, Alan Skidmore's experiences will resonate, educate, and inspire.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:01):
Hello again, podcats.
Today I'm in Hertfordshire andI'm going to see a very, very
old friend of mine who I playedwith for many, many years in the
Georgie Fame Band.
His name is Alan Skidmore,tenor saxophone player, and
we're going to chat all aboutwhere he is now in his life,
(00:21):
looking back on a career thatspans nearly 70 years.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith him.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:45):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:53):
So here we are, Skid.
How are you feeling today?
Alan (00:57):
Well, I'm feeling my age a little bit nowadays, Geoff.
You know, nothing I can doabout that.
Geoff (01:04):
How old are you now?
If you don't mind me asking uh,I'm 83 next month
Congratulations, uh, now, we'veknown each other a long time.
We played in Georgie Fame'sband together, didn't we for?
Uh, quite a while I was in itfor 12 years, I think, 13 years.
How long were you in that for.
Alan (01:19):
Over 50 over 50 years yeah , that's amazing.
I mean, you know I did amultitude of other things as
well at the time.
You know I did a load of workin Europe and around the place
with all kinds of Europeangroups European jazz quintet,
European jazz ensemble the listis astonishing.
(01:43):
There's so many groups bigbands.
Geoff (01:46):
So how did you get started then?
Because I know your dad was asaxophone player, wasn't he?
Alan (01:50):
I didn't really want to play the saxophone.
Actually when I left school at15, I had no qualifications at
all.
I'd failed everything and I hada couple of really dodgy day
jobs, one in a suit shop where Ithought, oh yeah, it'd be nice
to sell a suit to someone.
All I got was knob make the teaKnob sweep up, that's what
(02:18):
they called you.
Geoff (02:19):
They called you knob.
Alan (02:22):
So I'm on the bus on the way home one day for my 13th
birthday I'm 15 now, right atthis time, and for my 13th
birthday my dad gave me a tenorwhich went straight underneath
my bed and forgotten about.
So I'm on my way home on thebus one day, having done this
very dodgy day job, thinking Imight try that thing under my
(02:46):
bed.
Give that a go, try it, becauseI really can't stand what, what
I'm doing at the moment.
Right, you know.
So he said right, okay, youwant to?
Yeah, and he showed me how toput it together and how to put a
reed on and he shut me in mybedroom.
Geoff (03:02):
He made me practice for hours on end, every day, and
every time I stopped he paid me,so he was a saxophone player,
so he was out gigging and stuffwhile you were at home, was he?
Alan (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, okay did he give you some help.
He showed me how you play ascale, a major scale, and then
he said there's 12 of them.
That's what you've got to do.
You've got to do, you've got tolearn all them first and at the
same time you've got to playlong notes to develop a decent
sound.
Geoff (03:32):
Okay.
Alan (03:38):
You know, and of course I didn't think about it at the
time but ever since I was ayoung kid of five or six there
was jazz playing in the house.
Yeah, you know all kinds ofLester Young and Coleman Hawkins
and all that.
So I don't know whether thatkind of entered me.
Anyway, it was a pain in thearse practicing all the time
watching my mates in the streetplaying football.
Geoff (04:01):
Right.
Alan (04:01):
Anyway, I was upstairs in my room, I played long notes and
I learned my scales, and therest is history.
Every time I had chops startedto hurt, he would make me go
downstairs and listen tosomething.
Wow.
And what I would listen to wasalbums that he had acquired over
the years of people like PaulGonsalves, Dexter Gordon, Sonny
(04:27):
Rollins and all that.
Geoff (04:29):
So Was he quite a hard taskmaster, your dad.
What was your relationship likewith him?
Alan (04:33):
He did make me practice.
He made me, he forced me intopracticing.
Geoff (04:38):
Okay, and when you're 15, that's not easy, is it?
Alan (04:41):
I turned professional when I was about 16.
It's not easy, is it?
I turned professional when Iwas about 16.
And what I used to do was, onceI'd passed my test my driving
test I used to drive my dad toall kinds of gigs.
Wow when he was a guest with alocal rhythm section.
Geoff (04:58):
Right.
Alan (04:59):
And of course he would let me sit in and of course I
didn't play that good, but itwas a big help.
Geoff (05:05):
Gave you confidence.
Alan (05:05):
I suppose I didn't play that good, but it was a big help
.
Gave you confidence, I suppose,didn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a goodteacher in a way, but I used to
drive him everywhere so that hecould get well and truly out of
it.
Is that?
Geoff (05:15):
right.
How did you feel about that?
Were you resentful of it?
Alan (05:17):
at all.
No, I love driving.
As it happened, you do lovedriving.
I still do.
Geoff (05:25):
Yeah, you're love driving .
I know that.
Yeah, you're wearing yoursilverstone hat.
Yes, yeah.
So how did you learn aboutimprovising?
Did you study any books or didyou do any transcribing or
anything like that?
Alan (05:30):
No, I just listened a lot, because my father had a an
amazing, uh collection of jazzrecords.
So that's that's how I.
I kind of played along withDexter Gordon and other people.
Geoff (05:48):
So you never wrote anything down or read anything?
Alan (05:51):
No, he bought me a book called the Universal Method for
the Saxophone.
Geoff (05:55):
Wow.
Alan (05:56):
Which I kind of went through, Because once you've
learned all your major scales,you've got to learn all the
minor scales, all the diminishedscales, augmented whole tones.
Geoff (06:06):
But there's a lot more to it than just scales, isn't
there?
Absolutely, you know yeah.
And then, of course, the thingyou learn is phrasing, playing
with feeling, as it were.
Well, if you're imitating thosegreats, then that's one of the
things that you pick up, isn'tit?
Alan (06:23):
John Coltrane is the greatest saxophone player I've
ever heard in my life.
Geoff (06:27):
When did you first hear him?
Alan (06:28):
I think it was 1961 when he came to this country.
Wow, My dad took me to aconcert in Walthamstow, but he
went to see the Dizzy GillespieGroup which was in the second
half of the concert.
Geoff (06:49):
Yeah.
Alan (06:54):
But the first half of the concert was Coltrane's quintet
with Eric Dolphy.
Wow, Elvin Jones.
Geoff (06:57):
So you would have been what 20 by then.
Alan (07:00):
I was 1961, I was 19.
Geoff (07:03):
19.
Wow.
So you remember that firstexperience of seeing him, do you
, yeah, he.
I was 19.
19.
Wow.
So you remember that firstexperience of seeing him, do you
?
Alan (07:08):
Yeah, he only played one tune for the whole hour, which
was I never heard him in theflesh play the tenor.
It was.
He played My Favourite Thingsfor an hour on the soprano, of
course, wow, and that was theonly thing he played on the
concert that lasted an hour.
That's crazy.
That was it, yeah, but I knewsomehow that what I was
(07:31):
listening to was somethingspecial and I didn't know what
it was that was special
Geoff (07:38):
Did you understand what he was playing?
Did you understand the, themethods of jazz by this point or
?
Alan (07:43):
not, not that much.
I just kind of thought, oh,that's good.
That sounds good.
And I don't know why.
I thought it's.
If you understand me, I don't.
And then, of course, one thingled to another and I became a
great, huge fan of Coltrane overthe years.
I can honestly say that I'venever, ever tried to copy him,
(08:09):
but I have been influenced byhim.
That's what it is, you know.
And the funny thing is likelater on in life I find out that
one of his biggest influenceswas Dexter Gordon, and, of
course, Dexter Gordon was one ofmy biggest influences in the
early days.
Geoff (08:28):
It's a lineage, isn't it?
Everyone's got you can see apath.
Is that the only time you sawColtrane play?
Yeah?
Alan (08:35):
in the flesh.
Wow, yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Because he got such a bad pressfrom the Melody Maker.
Geoff (08:42):
Because he was going quite avant-garde in the 60s,
wasn't he?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Alan (08:45):
Well, 60, 64, 63, 64, 65.
Geoff (08:51):
Yeah.
Alan (08:51):
That period.
Yeah, Love Supreme and SunShip and all those kind of
albums.
Geoff (08:59):
They're difficult records , those aren't they?
Yeah, they really are.
Alan (09:01):
Yeah, and of course, all those years later in the 80s, I
get a call from Elvin Jones.
Geoff (09:09):
That's right, yeah.
Alan (09:09):
Could I do two weeks with him?
At Ronnie Scott's Wow, I said,oh, hang on, I'll just see if I
can.
I'll just check.
I'll just check.
Geoff (09:19):
What was it?
like playing with Elvin.
Alan (09:20):
It was just the most amazing experience, because I
can tell you absolute truth, hewas such a lovely person yeah,
an unbelievable, nice, genuine,decent guy.
He was really lovely.
Geoff (09:36):
I remember playing opposite him quite a few times
in Ronnie's with small groupssupporting them, you know, I
mean I was such a huge fan andthat was my thing.
I really wanted to play withElvin.
One night I plucked up enoughcourage to say, can I sit in
with the band, you know?
And he said he was up for it.
He said yeah, of course youknow.
And then his wife said no, no,no, no, we don't do that.
Oh, wow, and I watched himevery night, just the intensity
(10:04):
of the way he plays was just.
Alan (10:05):
Well, on the box set that came out there's just the one
track.
Yeah, somebody recorded sittingin the front of the stage.
Oh right, yeah.
Geoff (10:15):
Was it last year that you released this?
Yes, Six CDs.
Was it this?
Yes?
Six CDs was it Six, Six CDsyeah, An anthology of your
career.
Really a lot of the highlights.
Alan (10:23):
And it was voted box set of the year in New York.
Amazing yeah, came first aboveMingus and Pharaoh Sanders.
Geoff (10:32):
Fabulous, yeah, and I'm on it as well.
You are, I'm on it, yeah, youare, yeah, fantastic, right.
So have you ever done anyteaching?
Alan (10:42):
Only sort of summer schools, Barry in South Wales.
I did that for a few yearsrunning when the head teacher at
that period of time was TonyOxley.
He's one of the greatestdrummers I've ever played with,
for sure.
Oh the funny thing, this is atrue story, Geoff.
One night I'm sitting indressing room at the back of
(11:03):
Ronnie's, behind the stage, youknow, and I said to Elvin, I
said you know, Elvin, you'remost jazz drummer's favourite
drummer.
Who is your favourite drummer?
And he said in a flash TonyOxley.
He must have heard him in theclub at some time or another.
Maybe Tony had been working inthe band opposite him on one of
(11:25):
his trips to the club in FrithStreet.
Geoff (11:28):
I was going to ask you about practising, but you said
you don't really do muchpractising, do you No?
Now, no, is that a physicalthing?
That's the strength orsomething I just don't fancy it.
Alan (11:40):
I've done 65 years on the road, I've got half a dozen
passports that are almost fullup and, as I said, you know, 83
next month and I don't want topractice
Geoff (11:55):
Just enjoy your retirement?
I suppose yeah, yeah, I supposeyeah.
Let me tell you a little bitabout my apps.
A couple of years ago I madetwo volumes of what I called
Quartet, Quartet 1 and Quartet 2.
Each volume has 150 standardson it, recorded by real
(12:18):
musicians, a trio plus asoloist, which you can choose.
To have a soloist, you canchoose to have a soloist.
You can choose to havedifferent mixes, so you can have
piano, bass, drums.
You can have bass and drums,you can have piano and bass yeah
, yeah um, but it'smulti-tracked so you can choose
which combination you want.
There's 150 tunes in each in thefirst two volumes, all the
essential standards that you'dever want to learn.
(12:38):
You know, from Autumn Leaves toAll The Things You Are, to
Giant Steps, to Blues andeverything, everything you need.
We're getting people to playalong with them.
You realize when you hear it,it's a brilliant tool for
practicing.
So you can change the key, youcan change the tempo yeah so I
asked you when you came in whattune you'd like to play.
Alan (12:58):
I said because I haven't picked it up for such a long
time.
I said any chance of playing ablues, Play a blues, yeah.
Geoff (13:06):
Yeah, okay.
Alan (13:07):
So you know that'll suit me.
Geoff (13:11):
So we're going to play a blues in E flat right.
Concert, e flat Okay, which is,and then we'll talk about the
improvising process afterwards.
Okay, do you want to stick yourheadphones on All?
(13:33):
guitar solo.
That's great.
(14:24):
How was that?
I don't know.
It was great.
That was great.
How was that?
Alan (14:31):
I don't know.
Geoff (14:32):
It was great.
That was great, was it?
Yeah, it was killing, all right.
So obviously that's what'sinteresting about that.
That's a 1-4-5 blues, isn't it?
Is there anything differentthat you're playing when you
play a 1-4-5?
Alan (14:43):
blues In the early 60s, the first half of the 60s, I
played with two groups, one ofwhich was with the Alexis
Korner's Blues Incorporatedright, and of course that in
those days was that a jazz groupor was it?
It was it was it was a greatgroup.
Yeah, it was Alexis on guitar,voice, Danny Thompson on bass,
(15:06):
Terry Cox on drums, Chris Pineon trombone and myself on tenor
and everything we played was a5-4-1.
Right.
But some of them were like very, very slow One, two, three,
four, that kind of tempo.
Right, and of course that was agreat learning curve.
(15:27):
Yeah, of tempo Right, and ofcourse that was a great learning
curve yeah.
And then I was called to do arecord session with John Mayall.
It's the one where they'relooking at the Beano on the
front of the album
Geoff (15:43):
Beano the comic.
Alan (15:44):
Yeah, that's right.
Geoff (15:45):
Yeah, and I played the introduction to a piece called
Have You Heard, which was ablues.
But many, many, many yearslater, when I was touring Europe
with a group, a trio with TonyOxley and Ali Howrand, that was
called SOH, and we shared acouple of gigs with Michael
(16:09):
Brecker's group and I'd alreadyworked with a guy called Peter
Erskine who's the drummer, andwe're checking into a hotel and
he comes home and says, ah,great to see you, di good and
all that you know, hugs andthings you know.
He said do you know Michael?
I said no, I said but I'd liketo meet him and he was at the
(16:30):
desk signing in to the hotel andhe took me over.
We shook hands.
He said you're Alan Skidmoreand I said yeah, I'm sorry, I
was afraid so.
And he said well, I have to saythank you to you because it was
you that I heard playing a solowith John Mayall that made me
(16:51):
want to play the saxophone.
Whoa, that's amazing.
That's a true story.
That's fantastic.
And I swear to God, Geoff, ifthe ground could have opened up,
I would have willingly fellinto the hole because I didn't
know what to say you know, wow,what can you say?
That's amazing.
Alan (17:07):
And so we were able to have a nice chat later on.
He's a really nice guy and, ofcourse, an absolutely
magnificent tenor saxophoneplayer Incredible yeah.
One of the greatest.
For him to say that to me was ahuge compliment, amazing.
Geoff (17:26):
So when you're playing that 1-4-5 blues, would you play
that slightly different if therhythm section weren't playing
1-4-5 blues?
Would you play that slightlydifferent if the rhythm section
weren't playing 1-4-5?
Alan (17:32):
Oh no, you can take liberties, you can free it up If
you're really tearing it apart.
There's all kinds of things youcould do, but I just
particularly like.
Geoff (17:44):
I was going to ask you as well do you ever use lip?
Alan (17:48):
Subliminally.
Maybe you as well do you everuse, use lip subliminally?
Maybe there's been, uh, this,this blues.
You know, Train composed anamazing amount of fantastic
blues.
Geoff (17:59):
He really did yeah, well, what you just played then was
you were kind of composing yourown blues, really, weren't you
in the same kind of way?
Alan (18:06):
just when you're improvising.
You know you, you know allabout that.
Yeah, from playing the bass, ofcourse.
Geoff (18:11):
Yeah.
Alan (18:12):
You know we spent many years together with Georgie Fame
.
we We did we did, who, in myopinion, is one of the greatest
singers I've ever heard in mylife.
Yeah, I agree, you know,absolutely.
You know.
Only the other night I was Thelistening to the Birthday Big
Band.
Oh, that was a great record andit's a fantastic record.
Geoff (18:32):
We did that.
Yeah, it was a double theLondon Town and Country Club,
didn't we?
Yeah?
Alan (18:37):
Yeah, that was amazing.
That's right, you can putthings up a semitone.
You know what I'm saying.
Of course you do and tear itapart and make it sound somehow,
right, yeah.
Geoff (18:55):
I've got a couple of last questions before we finish.
All right, if that's all right,yeah.
Do you have a favourite album?
I can probably guess what itmight be, but have you ever?
If you had to pick one.
Well, there's so many.
Alan (19:06):
Yeah, I don't actually have a favourite.
There's so many.
Yeah, I don't actually have afavourite.
I suppose the first time I everheard Chasin' The Trane at
Village Vanguard was a reallesson and it took me quite a
while.
You know, many, many, manyyears ago, when I was in my 20s,
(19:26):
it took me a long time tofigure out that it was a blues
actually.
And then a friend of mine Isaid how many choruses does he
play?
Because no one else plays asolo.
He plays the theme and the soloand the theme, yeah, at the end
, and he plays 81 choruses.
(19:47):
wow and um, and it took me awhile to figure out that it was
it's a blues in F concert yeahwow, I can play it for you.
What you can play the, I canplay the tune go on then, and he
(20:15):
plays one chorus of it at thebeginning.
Geoff (20:18):
Yeah.
Alan (20:18):
And then I think, at the end I think he's forgotten.
He's forgotten how the tunegoes.
How the tune went, yeah.
Geoff (20:26):
All right.
So what was the last concertyou went to?
You saw?
I mean, we've already talkedabout you seeing Coltrane.
I mean that kind of covers, itdoesn't it?
Alan (20:35):
Well, I just saw him the once.
Geoff (20:37):
Were there any other great concerts that you saw in
the early days?
Alan (20:42):
A lot of the great musicians and things that I've
heard and witnessed has been atRonnie's.
Yeah that I've heard andwitnessed has been at Ronnie's.
Yeah, you know, in the secondhalf of the 60s I had two jobs.
I had one job in the daytimeworking with the BBC Radio
Orchestra, and then in theevening I was working at the
(21:08):
Talk of the Town with a quartetfor dancing, dance music, and in
the break I used to hoof it asfast as I could round to
Ronnie's and go downstairs andsit with Sonny Rollins, talking.
We had some fantasticconversations and we kept in
touch and I've got some lovelycards and letters and messages
(21:29):
at home that he sent me over theyears.
I mean, Ronnie's was great.
So many wonderful musiciansplayed there from America,
amazing, amazing.
Geoff (21:41):
Okay, here's a question that I've had some interesting
replies for.
What do you think your musicalweakness might be?
Alan (21:50):
I don't know, maybe reading.
Geoff (21:53):
Reading.
Yeah, I mean.
Alan (21:54):
I can read music, but….
Sight reading, sight reading.
Yeah, because I used to.
In the 60s and 70s I also usedto do a lot of sessions with the
Beatles and all that kind ofthing.
God knows how many Did you playwith the Beatles?
Did you record of thing?
God knows how many.
Geoff (22:11):
Did you play with the Beatles?
Did you record with them?
Alan (22:13):
Yeah, I did.
Ronnie Scott was in the bandand Ronnie Ross was on the
baritone section.
Geoff (22:22):
Which album or tracks did you do with the Beatles?
Alan (22:24):
I can't really remember Geoff, but all I do remember is
being in the studio.
I mean it could be, uh, I don'tknow.
Is that on Sgt Pepper's?
I've got a feeling it wassomething to do with the Sgt
Pepper's thing.
To be quite honest with you,I'm busking a bit here because I
(22:48):
can't remember.
Geoff (22:49):
Wow, we're talking about early 60s, second half the 60s,
doing just sessions, getting acall from a fixer to come along
and just showing up and doing itand then going off to the next
one, yeah, 10 to 1, 2 to 5 andall that kind of thing which I'm
sure you've I kind of came inon the end of it, but I did a
(23:10):
little taste of that Perfect Doyou ever get nervous on stage.
Alan (23:15):
Sometimes I get a bit nervous, you know, just before
the gig perhaps.
But I'm normally okay once I'minto it and I've started, you
know, and if it's a good rhythmsection.
And of course over the yearsI've done lots of gigs with
(23:35):
house rhythm sections, whichsometimes is a bit hard.
Geoff (23:40):
You have to imagine who you're playing with.
A good one, don't you?
Yeah, shut your eyes.
Alan (23:45):
But I've never given them a hard time, because if you give
them a hard time, they're goingto play worse.
Yeah, that's, true you want toget the best out of musicians,
don't you?
If you encourage them in theinterval, you could say you're
doing great guys.
Yeah absolutely, and then inthe second half they can
sometimes be better than theywere in the first half.
(24:06):
That's a good point actuallythat's a good lesson.
Actually, isn't it for peopleBetter than they were in the
first half?
That's a good point actually.
Geoff (24:10):
That's a good lesson, actually, isn't it?
For people Compliment.
Yeah, I've got a few more sillyquestions, if that's all right.
What's your favourite?
sandwich.
Alan (24:17):
Oh crikey.
I don't know, do I have?
a favourite sandwich Cheese,cheese sandwich, cheese sandwich
, you can't go wrong with acheese sandwich.
Can you A bit of tomato?
yeah, yeah, favorite, you got afavorite movie uh, Psycho, wow,
I loved I thought that was, Ithought that was fantastic.
Apollo 13 okay, lovely,fantastic.
(24:40):
I'm a great fan of, uh, thatguy, Tom Hanks, Tom Hanks yeah,
that's it, thank you.
Geoff (24:46):
Is there a favorite country or favorite city you you
like to visit?
Alan (24:50):
I played a lot in Switzerland.
Every country in Europe, really, yeah, New York.
I like, of course, yes, verymuch.
Geoff (24:59):
Yeah.
Alan (24:59):
I've always had a good time there.
Philadelphia I played, andBoston, New York, Washington.
Geoff (25:06):
And finally, one last silly question for you what's
your favourite chord?
Alan (25:12):
I don't know.
G major seventh.
No, I don't have a favouritechord.
Geoff (25:19):
It does make people think , though I've had a whole
mixture of different replies tothat one.
Alan (25:24):
Yeah, I'll bet you have.
Geoff (25:26):
Major or minor, I do like minor, yeah, okay.
Alan (25:28):
Well, I think that will do .
I do like minor.
Yeah, okay, yeah Okay.
Geoff (25:30):
Well, I think that will do it.
I think yeah.
Thanks so much for making timeto come and talk to us, my
pleasure.
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking me.
So great to see you again.
Announcement (25:40):
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podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
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quartetappdotcom.
Hello again, podcats.
Today I'm in Hertfordshire andI'm going to see a very, very
old friend of mine who I playedwith for many, many years in the
Georgie Fame Band.
His name is Alan Skidmore,tenor saxophone player, and
we're going to chat all aboutwhere he is now in his life,
(00:21):
looking back on a career thatspans nearly 70 years.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith him.
So here we go.
Announcement (00:45):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:53):
So here we are, Skid.
How are you feeling today?
Alan (00:57):
Well, I'm feeling my age a little bit nowadays, Geoff.
You know, nothing I can doabout that.
Geoff (01:04):
How old are you now?
If you don't mind me asking uh,I'm 83 next month
Congratulations, uh, now, we'veknown each other a long time.
We played in Georgie Fame'sband together, didn't we for?
Uh, quite a while I was in itfor 12 years, I think, 13 years.
How long were you in that for.
Alan (01:19):
Over 50 over 50 years yeah , that's amazing.
I mean, you know I did amultitude of other things as
well at the time.
You know I did a load of workin Europe and around the place
with all kinds of Europeangroups European jazz quintet,
European jazz ensemble the listis astonishing.
(01:43):
There's so many groups bigbands.
Geoff (01:46):
So how did you get started then?
Because I know your dad was asaxophone player, wasn't he?
Alan (01:50):
I didn't really want to play the saxophone.
Actually when I left school at15, I had no qualifications at
all.
I'd failed everything and I hada couple of really dodgy day
jobs, one in a suit shop where Ithought, oh yeah, it'd be nice
to sell a suit to someone.
All I got was knob make the teaKnob sweep up, that's what
(02:18):
they called you.
Geoff (02:19):
They called you knob.
Alan (02:22):
So I'm on the bus on the way home one day for my 13th
birthday I'm 15 now, right atthis time, and for my 13th
birthday my dad gave me a tenorwhich went straight underneath
my bed and forgotten about.
So I'm on my way home on thebus one day, having done this
very dodgy day job, thinking Imight try that thing under my
(02:46):
bed.
Give that a go, try it, becauseI really can't stand what, what
I'm doing at the moment.
Right, you know.
So he said right, okay, youwant to?
Yeah, and he showed me how toput it together and how to put a
reed on and he shut me in mybedroom.
Geoff (03:02):
He made me practice for hours on end, every day, and
every time I stopped he paid me,so he was a saxophone player,
so he was out gigging and stuffwhile you were at home, was he?
Alan (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, okay did he give you some help.
He showed me how you play ascale, a major scale, and then
he said there's 12 of them.
That's what you've got to do.
You've got to do, you've got tolearn all them first and at the
same time you've got to playlong notes to develop a decent
sound.
Geoff (03:32):
Okay.
Alan (03:38):
You know, and of course I didn't think about it at the
time but ever since I was ayoung kid of five or six there
was jazz playing in the house.
Yeah, you know all kinds ofLester Young and Coleman Hawkins
and all that.
So I don't know whether thatkind of entered me.
Anyway, it was a pain in thearse practicing all the time
watching my mates in the streetplaying football.
Geoff (04:01):
Right.
Alan (04:01):
Anyway, I was upstairs in my room, I played long notes and
I learned my scales, and therest is history.
Every time I had chops startedto hurt, he would make me go
downstairs and listen tosomething.
Wow.
And what I would listen to wasalbums that he had acquired over
the years of people like PaulGonsalves, Dexter Gordon, Sonny
(04:27):
Rollins and all that.
Geoff (04:29):
So Was he quite a hard taskmaster, your dad.
What was your relationship likewith him?
Alan (04:33):
He did make me practice.
He made me, he forced me intopracticing.
Geoff (04:38):
Okay, and when you're 15, that's not easy, is it?
Alan (04:41):
I turned professional when I was about 16.
It's not easy, is it?
I turned professional when Iwas about 16.
And what I used to do was, onceI'd passed my test my driving
test I used to drive my dad toall kinds of gigs.
Wow when he was a guest with alocal rhythm section.
Geoff (04:58):
Right.
Alan (04:59):
And of course he would let me sit in and of course I
didn't play that good, but itwas a big help.
Geoff (05:05):
Gave you confidence.
Alan (05:05):
I suppose I didn't play that good, but it was a big help
.
Gave you confidence, I suppose,didn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a goodteacher in a way, but I used to
drive him everywhere so that hecould get well and truly out of
it.
Is that?
Geoff (05:15):
right.
How did you feel about that?
Were you resentful of it?
Alan (05:17):
at all.
No, I love driving.
As it happened, you do lovedriving.
I still do.
Geoff (05:25):
Yeah, you're love driving .
I know that.
Yeah, you're wearing yoursilverstone hat.
Yes, yeah.
So how did you learn aboutimprovising?
Did you study any books or didyou do any transcribing or
anything like that?
Alan (05:30):
No, I just listened a lot, because my father had a an
amazing, uh collection of jazzrecords.
So that's that's how I.
I kind of played along withDexter Gordon and other people.
Geoff (05:48):
So you never wrote anything down or read anything?
Alan (05:51):
No, he bought me a book called the Universal Method for
the Saxophone.
Geoff (05:55):
Wow.
Alan (05:56):
Which I kind of went through, Because once you've
learned all your major scales,you've got to learn all the
minor scales, all the diminishedscales, augmented whole tones.
Geoff (06:06):
But there's a lot more to it than just scales, isn't
there?
Absolutely, you know yeah.
And then, of course, the thingyou learn is phrasing, playing
with feeling, as it were.
Well, if you're imitating thosegreats, then that's one of the
things that you pick up, isn'tit?
Alan (06:23):
John Coltrane is the greatest saxophone player I've
ever heard in my life.
Geoff (06:27):
When did you first hear him?
Alan (06:28):
I think it was 1961 when he came to this country.
Wow, My dad took me to aconcert in Walthamstow, but he
went to see the Dizzy GillespieGroup which was in the second
half of the concert.
Geoff (06:49):
Yeah.
Alan (06:54):
But the first half of the concert was Coltrane's quintet
with Eric Dolphy.
Wow, Elvin Jones.
Geoff (06:57):
So you would have been what 20 by then.
Alan (07:00):
I was 1961, I was 19.
Geoff (07:03):
19.
Wow.
So you remember that firstexperience of seeing him, do you
, yeah, he.
I was 19.
19.
Wow.
So you remember that firstexperience of seeing him, do you
?
Alan (07:08):
Yeah, he only played one tune for the whole hour, which
was I never heard him in theflesh play the tenor.
It was.
He played My Favourite Thingsfor an hour on the soprano, of
course, wow, and that was theonly thing he played on the
concert that lasted an hour.
That's crazy.
That was it, yeah, but I knewsomehow that what I was
(07:31):
listening to was somethingspecial and I didn't know what
it was that was special
Geoff (07:38):
Did you understand what he was playing?
Did you understand the, themethods of jazz by this point or
?
Alan (07:43):
not, not that much.
I just kind of thought, oh,that's good.
That sounds good.
And I don't know why.
I thought it's.
If you understand me, I don't.
And then, of course, one thingled to another and I became a
great, huge fan of Coltrane overthe years.
I can honestly say that I'venever, ever tried to copy him,
(08:09):
but I have been influenced byhim.
That's what it is, you know.
And the funny thing is likelater on in life I find out that
one of his biggest influenceswas Dexter Gordon, and, of
course, Dexter Gordon was one ofmy biggest influences in the
early days.
Geoff (08:28):
It's a lineage, isn't it?
Everyone's got you can see apath.
Is that the only time you sawColtrane play?
Yeah?
Alan (08:35):
in the flesh.
Wow, yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Because he got such a bad pressfrom the Melody Maker.
Geoff (08:42):
Because he was going quite avant-garde in the 60s,
wasn't he?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Alan (08:45):
Well, 60, 64, 63, 64, 65.
Geoff (08:51):
Yeah.
Alan (08:51):
That period.
Yeah, Love Supreme and SunShip and all those kind of
albums.
Geoff (08:59):
They're difficult records , those aren't they?
Yeah, they really are.
Alan (09:01):
Yeah, and of course, all those years later in the 80s, I
get a call from Elvin Jones.
Geoff (09:09):
That's right, yeah.
Alan (09:09):
Could I do two weeks with him?
At Ronnie Scott's Wow, I said,oh, hang on, I'll just see if I
can.
I'll just check.
I'll just check.
Geoff (09:19):
What was it?
like playing with Elvin.
Alan (09:20):
It was just the most amazing experience, because I
can tell you absolute truth, hewas such a lovely person yeah,
an unbelievable, nice, genuine,decent guy.
He was really lovely.
Geoff (09:36):
I remember playing opposite him quite a few times
in Ronnie's with small groupssupporting them, you know, I
mean I was such a huge fan andthat was my thing.
I really wanted to play withElvin.
One night I plucked up enoughcourage to say, can I sit in
with the band, you know?
And he said he was up for it.
He said yeah, of course youknow.
And then his wife said no, no,no, no, we don't do that.
Oh, wow, and I watched himevery night, just the intensity
(10:04):
of the way he plays was just.
Alan (10:05):
Well, on the box set that came out there's just the one
track.
Yeah, somebody recorded sittingin the front of the stage.
Oh right, yeah.
Geoff (10:15):
Was it last year that you released this?
Yes, Six CDs.
Was it this?
Yes?
Six CDs was it Six, Six CDsyeah, An anthology of your
career.
Really a lot of the highlights.
Alan (10:23):
And it was voted box set of the year in New York.
Amazing yeah, came first aboveMingus and Pharaoh Sanders.
Geoff (10:32):
Fabulous, yeah, and I'm on it as well.
You are, I'm on it, yeah, youare, yeah, fantastic, right.
So have you ever done anyteaching?
Alan (10:42):
Only sort of summer schools, Barry in South Wales.
I did that for a few yearsrunning when the head teacher at
that period of time was TonyOxley.
He's one of the greatestdrummers I've ever played with,
for sure.
Oh the funny thing, this is atrue story, Geoff.
One night I'm sitting indressing room at the back of
(11:03):
Ronnie's, behind the stage, youknow, and I said to Elvin, I
said you know, Elvin, you'remost jazz drummer's favourite
drummer.
Who is your favourite drummer?
And he said in a flash TonyOxley.
He must have heard him in theclub at some time or another.
Maybe Tony had been working inthe band opposite him on one of
(11:25):
his trips to the club in FrithStreet.
Geoff (11:28):
I was going to ask you about practising, but you said
you don't really do muchpractising, do you No?
Now, no, is that a physicalthing?
That's the strength orsomething I just don't fancy it.
Alan (11:40):
I've done 65 years on the road, I've got half a dozen
passports that are almost fullup and, as I said, you know, 83
next month and I don't want topractice
Geoff (11:55):
Just enjoy your retirement?
I suppose yeah, yeah, I supposeyeah.
Let me tell you a little bitabout my apps.
A couple of years ago I madetwo volumes of what I called
Quartet, Quartet 1 and Quartet 2.
Each volume has 150 standardson it, recorded by real
(12:18):
musicians, a trio plus asoloist, which you can choose.
To have a soloist, you canchoose to have a soloist.
You can choose to havedifferent mixes, so you can have
piano, bass, drums.
You can have bass and drums,you can have piano and bass yeah
, yeah um, but it'smulti-tracked so you can choose
which combination you want.
There's 150 tunes in each in thefirst two volumes, all the
essential standards that you'dever want to learn.
(12:38):
You know, from Autumn Leaves toAll The Things You Are, to
Giant Steps, to Blues andeverything, everything you need.
We're getting people to playalong with them.
You realize when you hear it,it's a brilliant tool for
practicing.
So you can change the key, youcan change the tempo yeah so I
asked you when you came in whattune you'd like to play.
Alan (12:58):
I said because I haven't picked it up for such a long
time.
I said any chance of playing ablues, Play a blues, yeah.
Geoff (13:06):
Yeah, okay.
Alan (13:07):
So you know that'll suit me.
Geoff (13:11):
So we're going to play a blues in E flat right.
Concert, e flat Okay, which is,and then we'll talk about the
improvising process afterwards.
Okay, do you want to stick yourheadphones on All?
(13:33):
guitar solo.
That's great.
(14:24):
How was that?
I don't know.
It was great.
That was great.
How was that?
Alan (14:31):
I don't know.
Geoff (14:32):
It was great.
That was great, was it?
Yeah, it was killing, all right.
So obviously that's what'sinteresting about that.
That's a 1-4-5 blues, isn't it?
Is there anything differentthat you're playing when you
play a 1-4-5?
Alan (14:43):
blues In the early 60s, the first half of the 60s, I
played with two groups, one ofwhich was with the Alexis
Korner's Blues Incorporatedright, and of course that in
those days was that a jazz groupor was it?
It was it was it was a greatgroup.
Yeah, it was Alexis on guitar,voice, Danny Thompson on bass,
(15:06):
Terry Cox on drums, Chris Pineon trombone and myself on tenor
and everything we played was a5-4-1.
Right.
But some of them were like very, very slow One, two, three,
four, that kind of tempo.
Right, and of course that was agreat learning curve.
(15:27):
Yeah, of tempo Right, and ofcourse that was a great learning
curve yeah.
And then I was called to do arecord session with John Mayall.
It's the one where they'relooking at the Beano on the
front of the album
Geoff (15:43):
Beano the comic.
Alan (15:44):
Yeah, that's right.
Geoff (15:45):
Yeah, and I played the introduction to a piece called
Have You Heard, which was ablues.
But many, many, many yearslater, when I was touring Europe
with a group, a trio with TonyOxley and Ali Howrand, that was
called SOH, and we shared acouple of gigs with Michael
(16:09):
Brecker's group and I'd alreadyworked with a guy called Peter
Erskine who's the drummer, andwe're checking into a hotel and
he comes home and says, ah,great to see you, di good and
all that you know, hugs andthings you know.
He said do you know Michael?
I said no, I said but I'd liketo meet him and he was at the
(16:30):
desk signing in to the hotel andhe took me over.
We shook hands.
He said you're Alan Skidmoreand I said yeah, I'm sorry, I
was afraid so.
And he said well, I have to saythank you to you because it was
you that I heard playing a solowith John Mayall that made me
(16:51):
want to play the saxophone.
Whoa, that's amazing.
That's a true story.
That's fantastic.
And I swear to God, Geoff, ifthe ground could have opened up,
I would have willingly fellinto the hole because I didn't
know what to say you know, wow,what can you say?
That's amazing.
Alan (17:07):
And so we were able to have a nice chat later on.
He's a really nice guy and, ofcourse, an absolutely
magnificent tenor saxophoneplayer Incredible yeah.
One of the greatest.
For him to say that to me was ahuge compliment, amazing.
Geoff (17:26):
So when you're playing that 1-4-5 blues, would you play
that slightly different if therhythm section weren't playing
1-4-5 blues?
Would you play that slightlydifferent if the rhythm section
weren't playing 1-4-5?
Alan (17:32):
Oh no, you can take liberties, you can free it up If
you're really tearing it apart.
There's all kinds of things youcould do, but I just
particularly like.
Geoff (17:44):
I was going to ask you as well do you ever use lip?
Alan (17:48):
Subliminally.
Maybe you as well do you everuse, use lip subliminally?
Maybe there's been, uh, this,this blues.
You know, Train composed anamazing amount of fantastic
blues.
Geoff (17:59):
He really did yeah, well, what you just played then was
you were kind of composing yourown blues, really, weren't you
in the same kind of way?
Alan (18:06):
just when you're improvising.
You know you, you know allabout that.
Yeah, from playing the bass, ofcourse.
Geoff (18:11):
Yeah.
Alan (18:12):
You know we spent many years together with Georgie Fame
.
we We did we did, who, in myopinion, is one of the greatest
singers I've ever heard in mylife.
Yeah, I agree, you know,absolutely.
You know.
Only the other night I was Thelistening to the Birthday Big
Band.
Oh, that was a great record andit's a fantastic record.
Geoff (18:32):
We did that.
Yeah, it was a double theLondon Town and Country Club,
didn't we?
Yeah?
Alan (18:37):
Yeah, that was amazing.
That's right, you can putthings up a semitone.
You know what I'm saying.
Of course you do and tear itapart and make it sound somehow,
right, yeah.
Geoff (18:55):
I've got a couple of last questions before we finish.
All right, if that's all right,yeah.
Do you have a favourite album?
I can probably guess what itmight be, but have you ever?
If you had to pick one.
Well, there's so many.
Alan (19:06):
Yeah, I don't actually have a favourite.
There's so many.
Yeah, I don't actually have afavourite.
I suppose the first time I everheard Chasin' The Trane at
Village Vanguard was a reallesson and it took me quite a
while.
You know, many, many, manyyears ago, when I was in my 20s,
(19:26):
it took me a long time tofigure out that it was a blues
actually.
And then a friend of mine Isaid how many choruses does he
play?
Because no one else plays asolo.
He plays the theme and the soloand the theme, yeah, at the end
, and he plays 81 choruses.
(19:47):
wow and um, and it took me awhile to figure out that it was
it's a blues in F concert yeahwow, I can play it for you.
What you can play the, I canplay the tune go on then, and he
(20:15):
plays one chorus of it at thebeginning.
Geoff (20:18):
Yeah.
Alan (20:18):
And then I think, at the end I think he's forgotten.
He's forgotten how the tunegoes.
How the tune went, yeah.
Geoff (20:26):
All right.
So what was the last concertyou went to?
You saw?
I mean, we've already talkedabout you seeing Coltrane.
I mean that kind of covers, itdoesn't it?
Alan (20:35):
Well, I just saw him the once.
Geoff (20:37):
Were there any other great concerts that you saw in
the early days?
Alan (20:42):
A lot of the great musicians and things that I've
heard and witnessed has been atRonnie's.
Yeah that I've heard andwitnessed has been at Ronnie's.
Yeah, you know, in the secondhalf of the 60s I had two jobs.
I had one job in the daytimeworking with the BBC Radio
Orchestra, and then in theevening I was working at the
(21:08):
Talk of the Town with a quartetfor dancing, dance music, and in
the break I used to hoof it asfast as I could round to
Ronnie's and go downstairs andsit with Sonny Rollins, talking.
We had some fantasticconversations and we kept in
touch and I've got some lovelycards and letters and messages
(21:29):
at home that he sent me over theyears.
I mean, Ronnie's was great.
So many wonderful musiciansplayed there from America,
amazing, amazing.
Geoff (21:41):
Okay, here's a question that I've had some interesting
replies for.
What do you think your musicalweakness might be?
Alan (21:50):
I don't know, maybe reading.
Geoff (21:53):
Reading.
Yeah, I mean.
Alan (21:54):
I can read music, but….
Sight reading, sight reading.
Yeah, because I used to.
In the 60s and 70s I also usedto do a lot of sessions with the
Beatles and all that kind ofthing.
God knows how many Did you playwith the Beatles?
Did you record of thing?
God knows how many.
Geoff (22:11):
Did you play with the Beatles?
Did you record with them?
Alan (22:13):
Yeah, I did.
Ronnie Scott was in the bandand Ronnie Ross was on the
baritone section.
Geoff (22:22):
Which album or tracks did you do with the Beatles?
Alan (22:24):
I can't really remember Geoff, but all I do remember is
being in the studio.
I mean it could be, uh, I don'tknow.
Is that on Sgt Pepper's?
I've got a feeling it wassomething to do with the Sgt
Pepper's thing.
To be quite honest with you,I'm busking a bit here because I
(22:48):
can't remember.
Geoff (22:49):
Wow, we're talking about early 60s, second half the 60s,
doing just sessions, getting acall from a fixer to come along
and just showing up and doing itand then going off to the next
one, yeah, 10 to 1, 2 to 5 andall that kind of thing which I'm
sure you've I kind of came inon the end of it, but I did a
(23:10):
little taste of that Perfect Doyou ever get nervous on stage.
Alan (23:15):
Sometimes I get a bit nervous, you know, just before
the gig perhaps.
But I'm normally okay once I'minto it and I've started, you
know, and if it's a good rhythmsection.
And of course over the yearsI've done lots of gigs with
(23:35):
house rhythm sections, whichsometimes is a bit hard.
Geoff (23:40):
You have to imagine who you're playing with.
A good one, don't you?
Yeah, shut your eyes.
Alan (23:45):
But I've never given them a hard time, because if you give
them a hard time, they're goingto play worse.
Yeah, that's, true you want toget the best out of musicians,
don't you?
If you encourage them in theinterval, you could say you're
doing great guys.
Yeah absolutely, and then inthe second half they can
sometimes be better than theywere in the first half.
(24:06):
That's a good point actuallythat's a good lesson.
Actually, isn't it for peopleBetter than they were in the
first half?
That's a good point actually.
Geoff (24:10):
That's a good lesson, actually, isn't it?
For people Compliment.
Yeah, I've got a few more sillyquestions, if that's all right.
What's your favourite?
sandwich.
Alan (24:17):
Oh crikey.
I don't know, do I have?
a favourite sandwich Cheese,cheese sandwich, cheese sandwich
, you can't go wrong with acheese sandwich.
Can you A bit of tomato?
yeah, yeah, favorite, you got afavorite movie uh, Psycho, wow,
I loved I thought that was, Ithought that was fantastic.
Apollo 13 okay, lovely,fantastic.
(24:40):
I'm a great fan of, uh, thatguy, Tom Hanks, Tom Hanks yeah,
that's it, thank you.
Geoff (24:46):
Is there a favorite country or favorite city you you
like to visit?
Alan (24:50):
I played a lot in Switzerland.
Every country in Europe, really, yeah, New York.
I like, of course, yes, verymuch.
Geoff (24:59):
Yeah.
Alan (24:59):
I've always had a good time there.
Philadelphia I played, andBoston, New York, Washington.
Geoff (25:06):
And finally, one last silly question for you what's
your favourite chord?
Alan (25:12):
I don't know.
G major seventh.
No, I don't have a favouritechord.
Geoff (25:19):
It does make people think , though I've had a whole
mixture of different replies tothat one.
Alan (25:24):
Yeah, I'll bet you have.
Geoff (25:26):
Major or minor, I do like minor, yeah, okay.
Alan (25:28):
Well, I think that will do .
I do like minor.
Yeah, okay, yeah Okay.
Geoff (25:30):
Well, I think that will do it.
I think yeah.
Thanks so much for making timeto come and talk to us, my
pleasure.
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking me.
So great to see you again.
Announcement (25:40):
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podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!