September 19, 2025 • 32 mins
Geoff travels to the Guildhall School of Music & Drama in the heart of the City of London to meet with the wonderful guitarist and educator Chris Allard.
Growing up in a musical family with roots stretching back to The Juilliard School in New York, Chris recalls his path from classical piano lessons to discovering rock guitar through Hendrix and Led Zeppelin, before Pat Metheny's ‘Letter From Home’ (1989) opened the door to jazz improvisation. This pivotal moment set him on a course that would lead to conservatory training, where his reluctant classical guitar studies unexpectedly became a career asset, enabling performances with artists like Russell Watson and Lea Salonga.
The heart of the discussion centres on Chris's doctoral research, where he has meticulously transcribed and analysed four contrasting guitarists—Lionel Loueke, Jesse van Ruller, Kurt Rosenwinkel and Nelson Veras—to develop his own musical language. His systematic approach to absorbing their innovations while establishing his distinctive sound offers valuable insights for musicians of all levels struggling with the influence of their heroes.
From performing at the Pyramids in Cairo to playing intimate jazz clubs, Chris shares candid reflections on stage nerves, memorable performances, and the practical challenges of developing as a musician. We even explore his equipment choices, favourite recordings, and get a demonstration of some particularly tasty chord voicings.
Ready to take your jazz practice and performing to the next level? Download the Quartet app for iOS today and experience the difference of playing along with professional-quality backing tracks, just like Chris demonstrates in this episode with Irving Berlin’s 1930s standard ‘How Deep is the Ocean’.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:02):
Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're doing
well.
Today I'm going to theGuildhall School of Music, which
is a place I've been a teacherat for quite a few years, and
I'm going to meet a fellowteacher, professor, if you like.
His name is Chris Allard andhe's a terrific guitar player,
(00:23):
and we're going to have a littlechat about various things, his
doctorate in jazz guitar, hislove of Pat Metheny, and I hope
you enjoy it.
Here it comes.
Announcement (00:49):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:58):
It's Chris Allard, hello.
Hello
, ow are you?
Chris (01:01):
I'm very well thank you.
Geoff (01:02):
We're here in the Guildhall.
Opera singers and violins.
Chris (01:06):
In different rooms.
What a racket.
Well, it's Charles Ives' newpiece.
You've been teaching, yes, I'vebeen teaching, yeah.
Straight after this, going tothe Vortex where I'm playing
with my very fine Guildhallcombo for one of their exam
performances.
Geoff (01:23):
So hear here here you just had a one to zero.
Chris (01:25):
I have just had a one to zero, sadly, yes, and I was
amused by the term because Ihadn't come across
Geoff (01:31):
That, that's when a student doesn't turn up
Chris (01:34):
.
Geoff (01:36):
Can we start by just letting me know how you got
started?
You're into jazz, and how doyou start playing guitar?
Chris (01:42):
My family are really musical on both sides.
They had small baroque groupsNot professional but good, and
also my great uncle.
He was a professional musician.
He was a professor at theJuilliard in New York, amongst
other places.
Wow, and so I grew upsurrounded by stories about him
and how he was, sort of, hetaught Michael Brecker.
(02:03):
you know people like that whospeak very highly of him and I
had classical piano lessons as akid.
I was actually nevertremendously good, but I always
wanted to improvise actually,and it was just that classic
thing of piano teacher notpicking up on that at all, and
so eventually I gave up and itwas when I heard Hendrix really,
and Led Zeppelin and Pink Floydwhen I was in my early teens.
(02:24):
That's what drew me to theguitar and I immediately just
got really into it and startedplaying in local rock bands,
blues bands, and then when Iheard Pat Metheny Letter From
Home when I was about 16 orsomething like that, I could
hear in the improvising that itwas.
it was everything, the the sortof freedom and expressiveness
(02:44):
of rock guitar improvising, butjust with all kinds of more
stuff that I found reallyfascinating.
Geoff (02:50):
So you didn't start on classical guitar.
Chris (02:51):
It was actually when I finally went to Guildhall to
study jazz, and in those daysyou had to study classical as
well.
Geoff (02:57):
So what standard would you have got to your classical
guitar?
Chris (03:01):
I can't believe it now and I wish I'd recorded it at
the time.
But I played some Bach in acouple of exams.
That was really hard thinkingback on it and I remember it
feeling quite comfortable by theend.
Basically I had to practice itall the time for those two years
, to the massive detriment of myjazz playing at the time.
But in retrospect quite a lotof work that I've done since has
(03:21):
hinged on being able to playclassical.
So I've done quite a lot oftours with the crossover
classical kind of world.
Geoff (03:27):
So what made you decide to come to the Guildhall
Chris (03:29):
Around that time I started playing with some people
who were studying here.
I'd just never really heard ofthe conservatoire world.
In fact, my dad pretty muchtried to put me off becoming a
musician.
Joe Allard senior, who was theprofessor, and musician in New
York as I mentioned, he hadactually tried to put my dad off
it, and this would have been inthe 1960s.
(03:49):
He said, Joe, my dad was namedafter him too.
Really, really good,conservatoire trained classical
pianist who are a dime a dozen,and most of them can't earn a
living.
My dad ended up becoming aliterature professor and just
playing on the side, and so mydad tried to put me off in the
same way, but I actually, um, Ijust rebelled against it and
(04:10):
very, very, uh, committedly wentdown that road.
Geoff (04:13):
The roots were too deep, weren't they?
yeah, exactly, or by juststubbornness, yeah so do you
remember how you first started?
Did you transcribe things?
Chris (04:23):
prior to even going to the Guitar Institute and all of
that I used to.
Although I couldn't really read, I would transcribe things,
just learn them by ear.
I got into Django Reinhardttranscribed some of that I
wrote it out in tab in thosedays.
Actually Also things by JoeSatriani and Steve Vai, which
obviously are really incrediblydifficult, but I really spent
(04:44):
hours and hours trying to getthat together.
Very technical stuff, thatisn't it Very, very, very hard?
You know, you know all kinds ofstuff really.
George Benson, Metheny, Iremember learning all kinds of
lines that I was really drawn tothis altered sort of language,
altered scale from the melodic,minor and diminished language,
and I didn't understand whatthey were doing at all but I
(05:05):
would work out the lines andthen try and apply language.
Geoff (05:05):
And I didn't understand what they were doing at all, but
I would work out the lines andthen try and apply them.
You say you weren't a greatreader.
Your reading must have improved, surely?
Well, I've worked on that a lot, because guitar players are
notoriously bad readers, aren'tthey?
Chris (05:15):
They?
are absolutely.
Yeah, and I forget who it wasinitially, but someone suggested
that I practice reading Bachviolin music, which is still, I
think, about the best thing youcan do as a guitarist.
So all single note, yeah,that's right, although some of
the partitas also have somedouble stops and chords in them
as well, but generally it'sphysically quite reasonable for
(05:38):
the guitar not necessarily to doit well, but in terms of the
range, in terms of thefingerings and that kind of
thing.
So I worked through books ofthat.
I've done a couple of smallkind of show related type things
and session things where I didhave to read, but I was pretty,
pretty bad at it.
I then started practicing, uh,classical flute music and things
like that where it's really,really awkward and difficult,
(06:00):
really high, and all of themoments when you might get
totally roasted and look reallybad and possibly not get hired
again.
Yeah, as a guitarist, thosemoments in big band charts or
whatever where it's a reallyhigh bit, and that's the only
bit that really anyone hears,you know?
so I wanted just to improve mypercentage chance of getting
that right, you know,
yeah, yeah so how muchis speaking of reading
(06:20):
I mean to now, how much isreading a part of what you do
as, a as a working guitar playerand a guitar teacher?
Um, a huge part, definitely so you're involved
with notation quite a lot allthe time all the time at
Guildhall, but also in almost every group
that I play in.
I used to do a lot more, andhopefully will again more, in
(06:40):
the kind of studio realm, butI've done bits, bits and pieces
of that and obviously thatrequires reading for the most
part, yeah.
So I've really worked at it alot, and the rhythms too.
I worked through the whole ofthe Louis Bellson odd meter
rhythm text, whatever it'scalled, but that was invaluable.
Geoff (06:57):
And what about composing, Because I know you're quite a
prolific composer aren't you?
Chris (07:01):
I remember when I was here, when I prolific composer,
aren't you?
I remember when I was here,when I was having lessons with
John Paricelli and he said writea tune called Vertigo, yeah,
which I then ended up going onto play a lot and recorded it.
Right, I've done a lot of it inrecent years and of course I I
was very pleased to be part ofyour songwriting club in the
early days of lockdown
that's right, which is stillgoing.
You know, in a few months we'llbe week 100.
(07:22):
Wow, so in fact the meeting istonight.
Really, this week the subjectis luck, really, oh, that's good
.
So you're more than welcome tocome back any time you want,
When I've got some time.
I absolutely will, because infact I got a lot out of that and
in fact, the six sessions thatI did, I got six tunes out of
that, five of which I'veactually used for things.
Geoff (07:46):
Fantastic, I recorded it.
What?
Four of them?
I think, wow, that's.
That's really good to hear.
It's funny because there's beena couple of albums come out of
it.
Jackie Hicks has made an album.
Dominic Ashworth has made analbum.
Jackie Hicks album will be outand she's called it Song Club oh
, fantastic.
Chris (07:57):
Well it was.
It was really great as Iconstantly am saying to students
as well, having a deadline,whether self-imposed or not, and
I think that's such a valuablelesson in just signing off on it
, whatever you've done, andallowing it to be finished, and
it's the same, I think or for me, even worse, with um recording
a solo, because now, withtechnology, you could keep
(08:19):
perfecting it indefinitely, tothe point where you've changed
everything about it yeah, andthen come back and never be
satisfied with it.
Yeah, yeah.
So this just means you have tofinish it, and I always try when
I'm recording solos these days,if I'm recording a take of a
guitar solo or whatever, it isjust to try and be you let it go
let it go yeah and not, youknow, the the absolute minimum
(08:43):
of repairs and edits.
Yeah, because I can never feelgood about it afterwards if I
hear it back, knowing that it'sbeen fixed.
Geoff (08:48):
Don't you find it's like it's a statement in time?
Your?
Chris (08:51):
solo is.
Geoff (08:52):
This is where I am now.
Absolutely you know, then we'llmove on.
So let's just go through someof the things that you've done.
I see on your from your CV.
You worked with Russell Watson.
Chris (09:05):
I did about 100 gigs with Russell Watson in 2015 and that
was a big classical guitartechnique and reading thing
because it was really difficulta lot of it and there was quite
a lot of very exposed classicalguitar and electric and bass and
mandolin.
I learned to play mandolin forthat as well.
Geoff (09:21):
And, of course, Jackie Dankworth, who we both worked
together . Absolutely.
Are you continuing to work withher.
Chris (09:27):
Well, I saw Jackie a couple of weeks ago because I
played at the Stables with theBBC Big Band and Jackie and
Charlie Wood, her husband, who'shimself also a fantastic
musician, they're around thecorner and I played on three of
Jackie's albums and and this thevery occasional uh gig these
(09:48):
days with with guitar, but atthe moment she's not really
using a guitar but but she'sgreat.
Geoff (10:00):
So let's talk about the apps, the Quartet apps.
Have you used them?
What's your experience?
Chris (10:05):
Yeah, well, I was certainly struck by the fact
that they're so much moremusical to play along with than
any of the other similar thingsthat I'd ever come across, like,
like the player in iReal of, ofcourse, that's the one that's
very popularly used and itsounds very clunky, you know,
although it's functional,whereas this is much more
(10:26):
pleasing, and also the generalinterface on your apps and all
of the little details, likethere's the sort of album cover
to go with each piece.
Geoff (10:36):
That was me, yeah.
That was my art school days.
Chris (10:40):
Oh, that's right of course.
Geoff (10:41):
Coming back yeah, so we asked you to pick a tune.
Have you got a tune in mindthat you'd like to play on?
Well, I thought I mean maybe.
Chris (10:49):
How Deep Is the Ocean?
How Deep Is the Ocean?
Okay?
Geoff (10:52):
How about that?
Now?
Where is that?
Let me find where that is.
How Deep Is the Ocean is onQuartet, Volume 1.
So you've got two choruses.
Second chorus, the bass willprobably go into four.
Chris (11:03):
Well, that's quite a good detail, isn't it?
Geoff (11:05):
Yeah, so are you ready?
Yep, In the words of MartinHathaway, no mistakes.
So do, do, do do do.
(13:06):
Thank you, yeah, yeah,fantastic.
So, while you've got yourguitar in your hand, can we talk
about licks?
Do you ever use licks?
Are there any particular licksthat you'll fall back on if
you're stuck for an idea?
How does it work in yourimprovisation,
Chris (13:19):
As we've've discussed before.
I've spent a lot of timelistening to Pat Metheny and I
spent ages working on his, hislittle arpeggiated things, like
when he'll go, that kind ofthing and he'll sort of do three
, these kind of three or fourthings, nice, and that one is.
(13:46):
I completely stopped doing that.
A couple of people suggestedthat I should probably not
listen to Pat Metheny for awhile.
That's hilarious, and in fact,at the moment I've been working
quite consciously to try anddevelop new kinds of language
that sound more, hopefully, moredistinctive.
Geoff (14:01):
That must be a hard one to get away from, mustn't it?
Because it's such a stronginfluence, isn't?
Chris (14:04):
it Absolutely Well.
If yeah, given that he, youknow, I mean, how can anybody
have ownership of something likethat?
But to me that just immediatelysounds like Pat Metheny.
Geoff (14:14):
What you mean, the soulful kind of squiggly.
Chris (14:22):
Yeah, All of those kinds of little yeah.
Yeah, you know there isn'treally much language there at
all, but it still sounds likePat Metheny, yeah,
Geoff (14:28):
so how are you getting away from
that then?
That's the question.
Chris (14:33):
Well, I intentionally don't listen to Pat Metheny most
of the time, even though Ireally want to, and in fact
there have been a couple oftimes when I've been driving
late at night on the way backfrom a gig or something and have
been really you know, I don'tknow not in the best frame of
mind.
Geoff (14:44):
It's like a drug that you can't have, isn't it
Chris (14:46):
Exactly Well, I will listen to it.
If I'm feeling particularlyterrible.
I might listen to Slip Awayfrom Letter From Home or
anything from the Road To YouLive in Europe and it inevitably
, like immediately, makes mefeel happy.
But I do it very sparinglybecause it's like life is short
for the amount of there's a lotof music to listen to.
Geoff (15:08):
Of course there is, but did you not study?
You did a master's, didn't you,or something?
Well, I'm still doing adoctorate, a doctorate At the
moment.
Yeah, I'm doing a doctorate Adoctorate At the moment, yeah.
Chris (15:16):
Wow, I'm hopefully nearing the end of it now, in
which I have studied fourdifferent guitarists Lionel
Loueke, Jesse van Ruller, KurtRosenwinkel and Nelson Veras in
order to try and learn fromtheir language.
Wow, what a great choice ofpeople.
(15:37):
Well, that's good to hear .
Well, thank you.
Yeah, I mean, I obviously findthem all very inspirational and
they're all remarkable and alsothey're all very contrasting.
Geoff (15:45):
How are you going about analysing these players?
Are you transcribing them andpicking apart how they actually
improvise?
Is that what?
you're doing?
Chris (15:53):
Yeah, well, what I've done is I've taken four complete
tunes and transcribed all of it, one by each of them which was
quite a mammoth task in itselfbecause they were really hard
and contrasting ones to addressspecific, different sorts of
things about their playing andthen I've analysed them, then
selected a number of short,interesting, contrasting,
(16:16):
complementary points from eachof them and then taken, like,
for example, a three-bar phrasethat's got something interesting
about it or somethingchallenging, right, and then use
that to develop my own languagethrough this quite specific
system, practice method.
Geoff (16:32):
Can you give us any examples of each one of them?
Is there any one thing that youcould play for us?
Chris (16:37):
I'm not sure I'd play it very well now.
Just a there was a LionelLoueke thing, for example very
sort of West African yeah overthe top of that, he does this
pentatonic thing.
(17:04):
I've been doing this for fiveyears now
Geoff (17:06):
You've transcribed the tunes, have you transcribed what
they do on solos, the wholething?
Chris (17:10):
It was a real education in itself doing that.
For example, the Nelson Verasone which is called Promessa,
from his trio album called RougeSur Blanc.
It's quite rhythmically free.
Geoff (17:20):
He's incredible.
I don't know what planet thatguy comes from.
That's why I chose.
Chris (17:24):
I mean we spoke about this before.
It is.
It's incredible.
Geoff (17:27):
Yeah, he's absolutely, he's totally with with fingers,
with nails, from a classicalperspective.
But his arpeggios and groups ofnotes and stuff are just yeah
yeah, well, I'll say anythingelse I'll send you the
transcription that I've done, ifyou like.
Chris (17:41):
Well, that took ages because it's so rhythmically
sophisticated and also the waythey're playing on.
That recording is quite free.
Geoff (17:52):
For someone who's playing with his nails and so he's
using three fingers, but you'replaying with a pick, though,
aren't you?
Chris (18:01):
Yeah, a pick and fingers, or sometimes with fingers, so
that's a challenge just in thatrespect.
Oh yeah, definitely Well thatwas part of the reason I chose
him as well In order to be ableto notate it and also just to
figure out what he was doing.
I ended up putting it in Logicand using the metronome in Logic
, lining it up, just to try andfigure out where I should put
the one beat spending just hoursand hours doing that, which was
(18:23):
really good for my ownmusicianship.
Geoff (18:26):
It's in some odd modes, some Messian mode and those kind
of things, isn't it?
Chris (18:31):
Yeah, there's quite a lot of that the augmented scale.
Geoff (18:40):
That's lovely.
So, speaking of guitars, let'sjust short.
I mean, this is quite geeky andjust for my own personal
interest.
But you're left-handed, yes,and you play a lovely, beautiful
Gibson 335.
Yeah, in flame red, yes indeed.
Other guitars.
This is your go-to guitar, isit?
Chris (19:00):
This is kind of my go-to electric guitar.
I do have a Strat as well,which I've never really felt
that comfortable with Fendersactually, but I use it when you
know, when required.
And I've got a couple of otherGibsons as well.
I've got a Les Paul Jr and anSG and I've got an Epiphone like
(19:20):
arch top.
Geoff (19:22):
You never.
You never wanted to go over toan arch top sort of well, full
jazz
I did.
I did do.
I did with the Epiphone archtop.
I used that for some time.
But the thing is, you see, Ilike, I like, I like bending
strings, you know, and you justcan't do that.
You really can't, you know.
So you're using sort of mediumgauge strings.
Chris (19:41):
Using 11s which are heavy enough really to bend.
This is terribly interesting.
Geoff (19:45):
I'm interested can edit this one.
Chris (19:48):
I'm interested, I'm totally interested, I'm totally
geeked out and I use a Martinacoustic, steel string acoustic,
and I've got a classical guitar.
Of course, a baguette.
Geoff (20:00):
And what about amplifiers and effects?
Are you particularly fussyabout that?
Today you're using, which isone of the college's small cubes
?
Chris (20:12):
yeah, just straight in right?
Geoff (20:13):
so yeah, it's not, and they're nice.
A little bit of reverb andthat's Peavey Mark.
Chris (20:16):
It's nice, um, I use a um generally for electric.
I use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe,and even though they're really,
really heavy and are prone tobreak down, but when they do
work, I like them so much that Istill carry it around.
Yeah, um, and I also I do havea Polytone I haven't used it in
a while and an AER for butthat's better for acoustic
(20:39):
guitar reading.
Yeah, um, and I use, uh, I'vegot like a pedal board with a
load of different things on it.
Yeah, and I use Kemper Talentboosters as a talent boosters,
talent boosters, and I use aKemper for kinds of gigs where
you, where you don't, wouldn'thave an amp which I find great
for that and for some and forrecording too,
Geoff (20:57):
Excellent I've got some questions.
Oh, would you say you have afavorite album.
Oh, I kind of get going toguess what it might be.
Chris (21:05):
But an album that would be my favourite album at this
moment is a Tigran Hamasyanalbum called Ancient Observer.
I really like that.
Ooh.
Ok, it's just piano and his ownvoice and some electronics, but
I also I love Nelson Veras'Rouge Sur Blanc, Pat Metheny
(21:27):
Road To You Live in Europe.
Yeah and quite oh, CharlieHayden and Pat Metheny Road To
You.
Live in Europe.
Yeah and quite oh, CharlieHayden and Pat Metheny.
Beyond the Missouri Sky.
Excellent choice.
Geoff (21:35):
There you go.
That's the all-time one.
There you go, I think so too.
I saw that.
Chris (21:39):
Did you see them?
Geoff (21:40):
do that live.
Chris (21:41):
In London, in Barbican.
In about 1999 or something.
Yes, I did.
Me and Trudy were in the frontrow.
Really, that concert was one ofthe most moving concerts I've
ever seen.
I think Me too.
Geoff (21:52):
Really.
Chris (21:53):
Oh, that's good to hear.
Geoff (21:54):
Next question is is there a favourite musician, alive or
dead, you'd love to play with?
Chris (21:58):
I guess the thing is most of the musicians I really
admire the most.
I'd probably just be too scaredto play with them because
they're too good.
I suppose it would be great toget to play with Bill Frisell or
Pat Metheny.
Have you done many duos withother guitar players?
Something that was a reallearning experience for me in
(22:18):
about 2008 or something likethat, was doing a number of
tours and one-off gigs withJackie Dankworth, but with two
guitars, with Mike Walker,obviously a great, great
guitarist.
There were a number that werejust with bass and drums and two
guitars, but then we did a tourof Scotland with just two
guitars and voice.
Geoff (22:37):
So when you're playing with two guitars, are you using
different parts of the neck?
Are you deliberately kind ofnot treading on each other's
toes?
How does it work?
Chris (22:46):
Well, we very consciously use different types of guitars
to change the sort of uh, youknow, the sort of timbre, etc.
I don't think that's so much ofa problem with two guitars.
That is a.
That can be a problem withguitar and piano.
Yeah, notoriously, um, and I'velistened to there are.
There are some notable uhrecordings where that's sort of
(23:07):
transcended very beautifully,like with Jim Holland, Bill
Evans, of course, and PatMetheny and Brad Mehldau played.
I guess there are quite a fewexamples.
But I play with piano players alot and it really depends on
the chemistry of the people.
But essentially, if one of youis doing something very
mid-range, then the other shouldprobably stay out of the way.
(23:28):
That kind of thing obvious thing, taking turns to comp, and all
that sort of stuff, although,yes, it is possible to comp it
together.
It's just a question of it notbeing very delicately done
Geoff (23:40):
Ok, excellent.
Do you think you have ahighlight of your career or a
memorable gig that you've done?
Chris (23:47):
There was a gig with the Palestinian singer, Omar Kamal
at the Pyramid in of your careeror a memorable gig that you've
done.
There was a gig with thePalestinian singer, Omar Kamal
at the Pyramid in 2018, whichwas just for the awesomeness of
the spectacle of playing infront of the pyramids.
That was.
That was quite amazing in Cairo.
Geoff (23:59):
Yeah, the actual thing, the actual pyramid.
Chris (24:01):
You don't mean the pyramid stage at Glastonbury,
not the pyramid stage ofGlastonbury though I'd like to
do that and I never had, so thatwas pretty awesome.
Also playing I've played umstage of Glastonbury though I'd
like to do that and I never have, so that was pretty awesome.
Also playing I've played um uh,a number of times with my own
band at the Pizza Express and atRonnie's, which is always that
always feels like a highlight.
Geoff (24:17):
Yeah, do you enjoy being a band leader?
Chris (24:21):
Yes and no.
I find it a bit.
I find it it's vastly morestressful than not being a band
leader.
Geoff (24:26):
It can be incredibly rewarding yeah, what was the
last concert you went to?
Chris (24:30):
Well, I went to see one last night, actually just round
the corner, but it's just mylocal gig.
You know Stefan Redtenbacker'sFunkestra.
No, it was the Joni Mitchellthing.
With Jana Varga, PeteBillington and I forget the name
of the drummer, but it was verynice.
The last sort of gig that Iwent out of my way to go and see
was Tigran Hamasyan, actuallyat Cadogan Hall a few months ago
(24:53):
playing solo piano, which wasincredible.
Geoff (24:56):
What would you say was your musical weakness?
Chris (24:59):
Well, I've spent my whole adult life trying to address
quite a number of musicalweaknesses, which I guess is the
way to improve, isn't itProbably memory musical
weaknesses, which I guess is theway to improve, isn't it, you
know, probably um memory I Istruggle to.
I struggle to memorize things,some things I can memorize and
they just sort of stay, but likethat's, that's a that's an
issue.
Geoff (25:19):
Is that because you're so used to reading music and it's
always in front of you and youdon't have to memorize it?
Chris (25:24):
I guess there are some things that I've never, that
I've learned that there neverhas been music for.
I've never looked at it and Iknow.
But then I guess it depends ifthe music's really complicated
and there are loads of slashchords and changing time
signatures and things like that.
It's more information, isn't it?
Learning Little Wing is easierthan you know.
(25:44):
Do you ever get nervous onstage?
Yes , Half the time it can be quite
stressful and half the time it'sjust fine.
And there doesn't seem to beany kind of correlation in terms
of external sort of stuff goingon as to why that is, as far as
I can tell.
Geoff (26:00):
What do you think is causing that?
Lack of preparation or too manypeople in the audience?
Chris (26:06):
No, I honestly think that and I've had this conversation
with many people.
Actually, I don't know what thecorrelation is.
Obviously, if you areunprepared or something's really
really difficult about it, thenit's going to be stressful
anyway.
But there are times when, youknow, the situation is quite
exposed and quite intense andthere have been gigs where is
(26:31):
quite exposed and quite intenseand there have been gigs where
it's being televised or and orthere's something that's solo
guitar.
For ages I did a um a number oftours with a great singer, Lea
Salonga, and there's always asolo acoustic guitar or
classical guitar thing and voicewith, and there was the.
It's always somehow reallyreally stressful and intense.
You know, yeah, yeah, doingthat at the Albert Hall, yeah,
it was quite sort of intense.
You know, it's always somehowreally really stressful and
intense.
Yeah, yeah, Doing that at theAlbert Hall was quite sort of
(26:51):
intense,
Geoff (26:51):
that's always an occasion isn't it
Chris (26:53):
yeah.
Geoff (26:54):
A couple of silly questions.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Chris (26:58):
Oh sandwich.
Well, I quite like a hummus andfalafel wrap.
It's not really a sandwich, isit Probably sandwich?
Tuna melt maybe.
Geoff (27:05):
Tuna melt Very good.
Chris (27:09):
I think you were eating some hummus.
Geoff (27:10):
As we came in, I was eating hummus.
Yeah, what about a favoritemovie?
Chris (27:12):
Many years ago I would have probably said Star Wars.
I watched a movie the other daythat was very interesting
actually, called Mirror Mask,British made movie and I believe
did the soundtrack, which isfantastic actually
I also read on your cv thatyou've you've actually made some
music for movies
Oh yeah, relatively small capacity but I'd love to do
more of it.
But yeah, I um played quite abit of tango music over the last
(27:36):
number of years, not actually,not so much lately, but in a
couple of, in a couple of groups.
I then got asked, because I wasinvolved in tango stuff, to
write some music for this sortof tango scene in this film
called Crowhurst.
Geoff (27:50):
Great.
Is there a favourite venue youlike to play in?
Chris (27:53):
One that's not quite so well known and that I'm very
fond of is, in fact, inColchester, near where I live,
Colchester Arts Centre, becauseI'm very fond of the place.
And it's very close to whereyou live, of course, and it's
very close to where I live, butit also has a really great sound
and it has a really good piano.
Geoff (28:07):
Excellent, excellent.
What about a favourite countryor city that you like to visit?
Chris (28:13):
Well, I love going to Spain.
I love going to South America.
I've been to South Americaquite a bit.
But, cities.
I like San Francisco actually.
Geoff (28:22):
And finally, what's your favourite chord?
I'm sure you're going to playit for us.
Maybe this one?
What about that Whoa, thatrecord?
I'm sure you're gonna play itfor us.
Chris (28:38):
It's beautiful.
Tell me what a good one Playall the notes from the from the
bottom up.
So it's going.
It's like E minor, nine, majorseven, sharp 11.
I only said that because therewas a thing a while ago, in
lockdown a Guildhall guitar hang, a regular guitar hang, just to
keep everyone from going insane, and there was a thing called
the Cod or Chord of the Day, orCow Chord of the Week, and so
(29:01):
everyone would try and come upwith the most awkward chords
they could think of to try.
And you know, yeah, that's verysimilar, but with a different
voicing.
That's quite a good Metheny one, you could call that like.
Geoff (29:18):
Well, there's again play all those notes from the bottom
up.
Chris (29:25):
So it's like D flat major seven 7, sharp 9 sharp 11.
Or you could call it.
I remember Malcolm Edmonstonewhen he was the head of jazz at
Guildhall, who's very good withchords.
He described this as Fm Maj 9Sus2 over Db.
So he had a good reason for it.
Geoff (29:49):
So there's another one last question.
Would you prefer C9 sus or Bflat over C?
Chris (29:56):
Oh, well, that's a good question.
That well I think I wouldprefer.
I prefer C 13 sus four.
Yeah, I reckon that's one ofthose chords that play on the
guitar.
That's one of those chordsthat's easy to play on the
guitar, or you can play it likethat.
That's one of those chords withabout 400 names.
Geoff (30:16):
It's interesting.
You speak to piano players,don't you about?
Do they prefer the slashversion or do?
Chris (30:20):
they do.
The Piano players tend to bemore slashy, don't they?
I think it's easier to see itall on the piano.
No, I don't mind slash chords.
That's um depending, yeah, butI think if it's easy, if it's
easy to write it out without aslash chord, I'd rather, I'd
rather it were just, you know,straightforward, more
straightforward um, if it wassoul music or something, then
quite often you'd see b flatover c.
Geoff (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's true yeah, g minor nine, b flat c
rather than c sus.
Yeah, you know exactly whatyou're going to get, I suppose.
Chris (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's a sort of genre thing.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Geoff (30:55):
Well, there we go.
I think that'll do it.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
It's been fascinating.
Thank you
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Yeah, I'll look forward tochecking out the new apps as
they appear.
Qu to checking out the new apps as they appear, Quartet
3 and 4 has Pat Metheny on it.
Has it really?
Yeah, wow, Always and Forever,Better Days Ahead, Bright Size
(31:16):
Life.
Chris (31:17):
Oh, fantastic First song It's.
Geoff (31:18):
Just Talk.
oh, you've got loads, james.
Oh, question and answer.
And he recorded Old Folks aswell, didn't he Old Folks?
He was on Question and Answer.
Chris (31:26):
And he recorded Old Folks as well, didn't he Old Folks?
He was on Question and Answer.
Geoff (31:29):
Yeah, So May It Secretly Begin, Waltz for Ruth.
Chris (31:33):
From the first tune from yeah, from the Missouri Sky,
yeah, so they're all there.
Oh amazing, a whole Methenysection.
Geoff (31:41):
It's there, yeah, incredible.
So we've done Stella byStarlight, of course, in the
first, but now we're getting toKenny Wheeler and Pat Metheny
and Herbie Hancock and all thatstuff.
Yeah, right, there we go.
That's brilliant.
Have a great day, well, thankyou.
Thanks, it's good to be in theback in the Guildhall.
Yeah, thanks, mate.
Chris (32:00):
Thanks, Geoff brilliant.
Announcement (32:02):
Thank you for making it to the end of them as
they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production.
Quartet for iOS, taking yourjazz play along to another level
.
Search for Quartet on the AppStore or find out more at
quartetappdotcom.
Hello podcats, Geoff Gascoyne here, hope you're doing
well.
Today I'm going to theGuildhall School of Music, which
is a place I've been a teacherat for quite a few years, and
I'm going to meet a fellowteacher, professor, if you like.
His name is Chris Allard andhe's a terrific guitar player,
(00:23):
and we're going to have a littlechat about various things, his
doctorate in jazz guitar, hislove of Pat Metheny, and I hope
you enjoy it.
Here it comes.
Announcement (00:49):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:58):
It's Chris Allard, hello.
Hello
, ow are you?
Chris (01:01):
I'm very well thank you.
Geoff (01:02):
We're here in the Guildhall.
Opera singers and violins.
Chris (01:06):
In different rooms.
What a racket.
Well, it's Charles Ives' newpiece.
You've been teaching, yes, I'vebeen teaching, yeah.
Straight after this, going tothe Vortex where I'm playing
with my very fine Guildhallcombo for one of their exam
performances.
Geoff (01:23):
So hear here here you just had a one to zero.
Chris (01:25):
I have just had a one to zero, sadly, yes, and I was
amused by the term because Ihadn't come across
Geoff (01:31):
That, that's when a student doesn't turn up
Chris (01:34):
.
Geoff (01:36):
Can we start by just letting me know how you got
started?
You're into jazz, and how doyou start playing guitar?
Chris (01:42):
My family are really musical on both sides.
They had small baroque groupsNot professional but good, and
also my great uncle.
He was a professional musician.
He was a professor at theJuilliard in New York, amongst
other places.
Wow, and so I grew upsurrounded by stories about him
and how he was, sort of, hetaught Michael Brecker.
(02:03):
you know people like that whospeak very highly of him and I
had classical piano lessons as akid.
I was actually nevertremendously good, but I always
wanted to improvise actually,and it was just that classic
thing of piano teacher notpicking up on that at all, and
so eventually I gave up and itwas when I heard Hendrix really,
and Led Zeppelin and Pink Floydwhen I was in my early teens.
(02:24):
That's what drew me to theguitar and I immediately just
got really into it and startedplaying in local rock bands,
blues bands, and then when Iheard Pat Metheny Letter From
Home when I was about 16 orsomething like that, I could
hear in the improvising that itwas.
it was everything, the the sortof freedom and expressiveness
(02:44):
of rock guitar improvising, butjust with all kinds of more
stuff that I found reallyfascinating.
Geoff (02:50):
So you didn't start on classical guitar.
Chris (02:51):
It was actually when I finally went to Guildhall to
study jazz, and in those daysyou had to study classical as
well.
Geoff (02:57):
So what standard would you have got to your classical
guitar?
Chris (03:01):
I can't believe it now and I wish I'd recorded it at
the time.
But I played some Bach in acouple of exams.
That was really hard thinkingback on it and I remember it
feeling quite comfortable by theend.
Basically I had to practice itall the time for those two years
, to the massive detriment of myjazz playing at the time.
But in retrospect quite a lotof work that I've done since has
(03:21):
hinged on being able to playclassical.
So I've done quite a lot oftours with the crossover
classical kind of world.
Geoff (03:27):
So what made you decide to come to the Guildhall
Chris (03:29):
Around that time I started playing with some people
who were studying here.
I'd just never really heard ofthe conservatoire world.
In fact, my dad pretty muchtried to put me off becoming a
musician.
Joe Allard senior, who was theprofessor, and musician in New
York as I mentioned, he hadactually tried to put my dad off
it, and this would have been inthe 1960s.
(03:49):
He said, Joe, my dad was namedafter him too.
Really, really good,conservatoire trained classical
pianist who are a dime a dozen,and most of them can't earn a
living.
My dad ended up becoming aliterature professor and just
playing on the side, and so mydad tried to put me off in the
same way, but I actually, um, Ijust rebelled against it and
(04:10):
very, very, uh, committedly wentdown that road.
Geoff (04:13):
The roots were too deep, weren't they?
yeah, exactly, or by juststubbornness, yeah so do you
remember how you first started?
Did you transcribe things?
Chris (04:23):
prior to even going to the Guitar Institute and all of
that I used to.
Although I couldn't really read, I would transcribe things,
just learn them by ear.
I got into Django Reinhardttranscribed some of that I
wrote it out in tab in thosedays.
Actually Also things by JoeSatriani and Steve Vai, which
obviously are really incrediblydifficult, but I really spent
(04:44):
hours and hours trying to getthat together.
Very technical stuff, thatisn't it Very, very, very hard?
You know, you know all kinds ofstuff really.
George Benson, Metheny, Iremember learning all kinds of
lines that I was really drawn tothis altered sort of language,
altered scale from the melodic,minor and diminished language,
and I didn't understand whatthey were doing at all but I
(05:05):
would work out the lines andthen try and apply language.
Geoff (05:05):
And I didn't understand what they were doing at all, but
I would work out the lines andthen try and apply them.
You say you weren't a greatreader.
Your reading must have improved, surely?
Well, I've worked on that a lot, because guitar players are
notoriously bad readers, aren'tthey?
Chris (05:15):
They?
are absolutely.
Yeah, and I forget who it wasinitially, but someone suggested
that I practice reading Bachviolin music, which is still, I
think, about the best thing youcan do as a guitarist.
So all single note, yeah,that's right, although some of
the partitas also have somedouble stops and chords in them
as well, but generally it'sphysically quite reasonable for
(05:38):
the guitar not necessarily to doit well, but in terms of the
range, in terms of thefingerings and that kind of
thing.
So I worked through books ofthat.
I've done a couple of smallkind of show related type things
and session things where I didhave to read, but I was pretty,
pretty bad at it.
I then started practicing, uh,classical flute music and things
like that where it's really,really awkward and difficult,
(06:00):
really high, and all of themoments when you might get
totally roasted and look reallybad and possibly not get hired
again.
Yeah, as a guitarist, thosemoments in big band charts or
whatever where it's a reallyhigh bit, and that's the only
bit that really anyone hears,you know?
so I wanted just to improve mypercentage chance of getting
that right, you know,
yeah, yeah so how muchis speaking of reading
(06:20):
I mean to now, how much isreading a part of what you do
as, a as a working guitar playerand a guitar teacher?
Um, a huge part, definitely so you're involved
with notation quite a lot allthe time all the time at
Guildhall, but also in almost every group
that I play in.
I used to do a lot more, andhopefully will again more, in
(06:40):
the kind of studio realm, butI've done bits, bits and pieces
of that and obviously thatrequires reading for the most
part, yeah.
So I've really worked at it alot, and the rhythms too.
I worked through the whole ofthe Louis Bellson odd meter
rhythm text, whatever it'scalled, but that was invaluable.
Geoff (06:57):
And what about composing, Because I know you're quite a
prolific composer aren't you?
Chris (07:01):
I remember when I was here, when I prolific composer,
aren't you?
I remember when I was here,when I was having lessons with
John Paricelli and he said writea tune called Vertigo, yeah,
which I then ended up going onto play a lot and recorded it.
Right, I've done a lot of it inrecent years and of course I I
was very pleased to be part ofyour songwriting club in the
early days of lockdown
that's right, which is stillgoing.
You know, in a few months we'llbe week 100.
(07:22):
Wow, so in fact the meeting istonight.
Really, this week the subjectis luck, really, oh, that's good
.
So you're more than welcome tocome back any time you want,
When I've got some time.
I absolutely will, because infact I got a lot out of that and
in fact, the six sessions thatI did, I got six tunes out of
that, five of which I'veactually used for things.
Geoff (07:46):
Fantastic, I recorded it.
What?
Four of them?
I think, wow, that's.
That's really good to hear.
It's funny because there's beena couple of albums come out of
it.
Jackie Hicks has made an album.
Dominic Ashworth has made analbum.
Jackie Hicks album will be outand she's called it Song Club oh
, fantastic.
Chris (07:57):
Well it was.
It was really great as Iconstantly am saying to students
as well, having a deadline,whether self-imposed or not, and
I think that's such a valuablelesson in just signing off on it
, whatever you've done, andallowing it to be finished, and
it's the same, I think or for me, even worse, with um recording
a solo, because now, withtechnology, you could keep
(08:19):
perfecting it indefinitely, tothe point where you've changed
everything about it yeah, andthen come back and never be
satisfied with it.
Yeah, yeah.
So this just means you have tofinish it, and I always try when
I'm recording solos these days,if I'm recording a take of a
guitar solo or whatever, it isjust to try and be you let it go
let it go yeah and not, youknow, the the absolute minimum
(08:43):
of repairs and edits.
Yeah, because I can never feelgood about it afterwards if I
hear it back, knowing that it'sbeen fixed.
Geoff (08:48):
Don't you find it's like it's a statement in time?
Your?
Chris (08:51):
solo is.
Geoff (08:52):
This is where I am now.
Absolutely you know, then we'llmove on.
So let's just go through someof the things that you've done.
I see on your from your CV.
You worked with Russell Watson.
Chris (09:05):
I did about 100 gigs with Russell Watson in 2015 and that
was a big classical guitartechnique and reading thing
because it was really difficulta lot of it and there was quite
a lot of very exposed classicalguitar and electric and bass and
mandolin.
I learned to play mandolin forthat as well.
Geoff (09:21):
And, of course, Jackie Dankworth, who we both worked
together . Absolutely.
Are you continuing to work withher.
Chris (09:27):
Well, I saw Jackie a couple of weeks ago because I
played at the Stables with theBBC Big Band and Jackie and
Charlie Wood, her husband, who'shimself also a fantastic
musician, they're around thecorner and I played on three of
Jackie's albums and and this thevery occasional uh gig these
(09:48):
days with with guitar, but atthe moment she's not really
using a guitar but but she'sgreat.
Geoff (10:00):
So let's talk about the apps, the Quartet apps.
Have you used them?
What's your experience?
Chris (10:05):
Yeah, well, I was certainly struck by the fact
that they're so much moremusical to play along with than
any of the other similar thingsthat I'd ever come across, like,
like the player in iReal of, ofcourse, that's the one that's
very popularly used and itsounds very clunky, you know,
although it's functional,whereas this is much more
(10:26):
pleasing, and also the generalinterface on your apps and all
of the little details, likethere's the sort of album cover
to go with each piece.
Geoff (10:36):
That was me, yeah.
That was my art school days.
Chris (10:40):
Oh, that's right of course.
Geoff (10:41):
Coming back yeah, so we asked you to pick a tune.
Have you got a tune in mindthat you'd like to play on?
Well, I thought I mean maybe.
Chris (10:49):
How Deep Is the Ocean?
How Deep Is the Ocean?
Okay?
Geoff (10:52):
How about that?
Now?
Where is that?
Let me find where that is.
How Deep Is the Ocean is onQuartet, Volume 1.
So you've got two choruses.
Second chorus, the bass willprobably go into four.
Chris (11:03):
Well, that's quite a good detail, isn't it?
Geoff (11:05):
Yeah, so are you ready?
Yep, In the words of MartinHathaway, no mistakes.
So do, do, do do do.
(13:06):
Thank you, yeah, yeah,fantastic.
So, while you've got yourguitar in your hand, can we talk
about licks?
Do you ever use licks?
Are there any particular licksthat you'll fall back on if
you're stuck for an idea?
How does it work in yourimprovisation,
Chris (13:19):
As we've've discussed before.
I've spent a lot of timelistening to Pat Metheny and I
spent ages working on his, hislittle arpeggiated things, like
when he'll go, that kind ofthing and he'll sort of do three
, these kind of three or fourthings, nice, and that one is.
(13:46):
I completely stopped doing that.
A couple of people suggestedthat I should probably not
listen to Pat Metheny for awhile.
That's hilarious, and in fact,at the moment I've been working
quite consciously to try anddevelop new kinds of language
that sound more, hopefully, moredistinctive.
Geoff (14:01):
That must be a hard one to get away from, mustn't it?
Because it's such a stronginfluence, isn't?
Chris (14:04):
it Absolutely Well.
If yeah, given that he, youknow, I mean, how can anybody
have ownership of something likethat?
But to me that just immediatelysounds like Pat Metheny.
Geoff (14:14):
What you mean, the soulful kind of squiggly.
Chris (14:22):
Yeah, All of those kinds of little yeah.
Yeah, you know there isn'treally much language there at
all, but it still sounds likePat Metheny, yeah,
Geoff (14:28):
so how are you getting away from
that then?
That's the question.
Chris (14:33):
Well, I intentionally don't listen to Pat Metheny most
of the time, even though Ireally want to, and in fact
there have been a couple oftimes when I've been driving
late at night on the way backfrom a gig or something and have
been really you know, I don'tknow not in the best frame of
mind.
Geoff (14:44):
It's like a drug that you can't have, isn't it
Chris (14:46):
Exactly Well, I will listen to it.
If I'm feeling particularlyterrible.
I might listen to Slip Awayfrom Letter From Home or
anything from the Road To YouLive in Europe and it inevitably
, like immediately, makes mefeel happy.
But I do it very sparinglybecause it's like life is short
for the amount of there's a lotof music to listen to.
Geoff (15:08):
Of course there is, but did you not study?
You did a master's, didn't you,or something?
Well, I'm still doing adoctorate, a doctorate At the
moment.
Yeah, I'm doing a doctorate Adoctorate At the moment, yeah.
Chris (15:16):
Wow, I'm hopefully nearing the end of it now, in
which I have studied fourdifferent guitarists Lionel
Loueke, Jesse van Ruller, KurtRosenwinkel and Nelson Veras in
order to try and learn fromtheir language.
Wow, what a great choice ofpeople.
(15:37):
Well, that's good to hear .
Well, thank you.
Yeah, I mean, I obviously findthem all very inspirational and
they're all remarkable and alsothey're all very contrasting.
Geoff (15:45):
How are you going about analysing these players?
Are you transcribing them andpicking apart how they actually
improvise?
Is that what?
you're doing?
Chris (15:53):
Yeah, well, what I've done is I've taken four complete
tunes and transcribed all of it, one by each of them which was
quite a mammoth task in itselfbecause they were really hard
and contrasting ones to addressspecific, different sorts of
things about their playing andthen I've analysed them, then
selected a number of short,interesting, contrasting,
(16:16):
complementary points from eachof them and then taken, like,
for example, a three-bar phrasethat's got something interesting
about it or somethingchallenging, right, and then use
that to develop my own languagethrough this quite specific
system, practice method.
Geoff (16:32):
Can you give us any examples of each one of them?
Is there any one thing that youcould play for us?
Chris (16:37):
I'm not sure I'd play it very well now.
Just a there was a LionelLoueke thing, for example very
sort of West African yeah overthe top of that, he does this
pentatonic thing.
(17:04):
I've been doing this for fiveyears now
Geoff (17:06):
You've transcribed the tunes, have you transcribed what
they do on solos, the wholething?
Chris (17:10):
It was a real education in itself doing that.
For example, the Nelson Verasone which is called Promessa,
from his trio album called RougeSur Blanc.
It's quite rhythmically free.
Geoff (17:20):
He's incredible.
I don't know what planet thatguy comes from.
That's why I chose.
Chris (17:24):
I mean we spoke about this before.
It is.
It's incredible.
Geoff (17:27):
Yeah, he's absolutely, he's totally with with fingers,
with nails, from a classicalperspective.
But his arpeggios and groups ofnotes and stuff are just yeah
yeah, well, I'll say anythingelse I'll send you the
transcription that I've done, ifyou like.
Chris (17:41):
Well, that took ages because it's so rhythmically
sophisticated and also the waythey're playing on.
That recording is quite free.
Geoff (17:52):
For someone who's playing with his nails and so he's
using three fingers, but you'replaying with a pick, though,
aren't you?
Chris (18:01):
Yeah, a pick and fingers, or sometimes with fingers, so
that's a challenge just in thatrespect.
Oh yeah, definitely Well thatwas part of the reason I chose
him as well In order to be ableto notate it and also just to
figure out what he was doing.
I ended up putting it in Logicand using the metronome in Logic
, lining it up, just to try andfigure out where I should put
the one beat spending just hoursand hours doing that, which was
(18:23):
really good for my ownmusicianship.
Geoff (18:26):
It's in some odd modes, some Messian mode and those kind
of things, isn't it?
Chris (18:31):
Yeah, there's quite a lot of that the augmented scale.
Geoff (18:40):
That's lovely.
So, speaking of guitars, let'sjust short.
I mean, this is quite geeky andjust for my own personal
interest.
But you're left-handed, yes,and you play a lovely, beautiful
Gibson 335.
Yeah, in flame red, yes indeed.
Other guitars.
This is your go-to guitar, isit?
Chris (19:00):
This is kind of my go-to electric guitar.
I do have a Strat as well,which I've never really felt
that comfortable with Fendersactually, but I use it when you
know, when required.
And I've got a couple of otherGibsons as well.
I've got a Les Paul Jr and anSG and I've got an Epiphone like
(19:20):
arch top.
Geoff (19:22):
You never.
You never wanted to go over toan arch top sort of well, full
jazz
I did.
I did do.
I did with the Epiphone archtop.
I used that for some time.
But the thing is, you see, Ilike, I like, I like bending
strings, you know, and you justcan't do that.
You really can't, you know.
So you're using sort of mediumgauge strings.
Chris (19:41):
Using 11s which are heavy enough really to bend.
This is terribly interesting.
Geoff (19:45):
I'm interested can edit this one.
Chris (19:48):
I'm interested, I'm totally interested, I'm totally
geeked out and I use a Martinacoustic, steel string acoustic,
and I've got a classical guitar.
Of course, a baguette.
Geoff (20:00):
And what about amplifiers and effects?
Are you particularly fussyabout that?
Today you're using, which isone of the college's small cubes
?
Chris (20:12):
yeah, just straight in right?
Geoff (20:13):
so yeah, it's not, and they're nice.
A little bit of reverb andthat's Peavey Mark.
Chris (20:16):
It's nice, um, I use a um generally for electric.
I use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe,and even though they're really,
really heavy and are prone tobreak down, but when they do
work, I like them so much that Istill carry it around.
Yeah, um, and I also I do havea Polytone I haven't used it in
a while and an AER for butthat's better for acoustic
(20:39):
guitar reading.
Yeah, um, and I use, uh, I'vegot like a pedal board with a
load of different things on it.
Yeah, and I use Kemper Talentboosters as a talent boosters,
talent boosters, and I use aKemper for kinds of gigs where
you, where you don't, wouldn'thave an amp which I find great
for that and for some and forrecording too,
Geoff (20:57):
Excellent I've got some questions.
Oh, would you say you have afavorite album.
Oh, I kind of get going toguess what it might be.
Chris (21:05):
But an album that would be my favourite album at this
moment is a Tigran Hamasyanalbum called Ancient Observer.
I really like that.
Ooh.
Ok, it's just piano and his ownvoice and some electronics, but
I also I love Nelson Veras'Rouge Sur Blanc, Pat Metheny
(21:27):
Road To You Live in Europe.
Yeah and quite oh, CharlieHayden and Pat Metheny Road To
You.
Live in Europe.
Yeah and quite oh, CharlieHayden and Pat Metheny.
Beyond the Missouri Sky.
Excellent choice.
Geoff (21:35):
There you go.
That's the all-time one.
There you go, I think so too.
I saw that.
Chris (21:39):
Did you see them?
Geoff (21:40):
do that live.
Chris (21:41):
In London, in Barbican.
In about 1999 or something.
Yes, I did.
Me and Trudy were in the frontrow.
Really, that concert was one ofthe most moving concerts I've
ever seen.
I think Me too.
Geoff (21:52):
Really.
Chris (21:53):
Oh, that's good to hear.
Geoff (21:54):
Next question is is there a favourite musician, alive or
dead, you'd love to play with?
Chris (21:58):
I guess the thing is most of the musicians I really
admire the most.
I'd probably just be too scaredto play with them because
they're too good.
I suppose it would be great toget to play with Bill Frisell or
Pat Metheny.
Have you done many duos withother guitar players?
Something that was a reallearning experience for me in
(22:18):
about 2008 or something likethat, was doing a number of
tours and one-off gigs withJackie Dankworth, but with two
guitars, with Mike Walker,obviously a great, great
guitarist.
There were a number that werejust with bass and drums and two
guitars, but then we did a tourof Scotland with just two
guitars and voice.
Geoff (22:37):
So when you're playing with two guitars, are you using
different parts of the neck?
Are you deliberately kind ofnot treading on each other's
toes?
How does it work?
Chris (22:46):
Well, we very consciously use different types of guitars
to change the sort of uh, youknow, the sort of timbre, etc.
I don't think that's so much ofa problem with two guitars.
That is a.
That can be a problem withguitar and piano.
Yeah, notoriously, um, and I'velistened to there are.
There are some notable uhrecordings where that's sort of
(23:07):
transcended very beautifully,like with Jim Holland, Bill
Evans, of course, and PatMetheny and Brad Mehldau played.
I guess there are quite a fewexamples.
But I play with piano players alot and it really depends on
the chemistry of the people.
But essentially, if one of youis doing something very
mid-range, then the other shouldprobably stay out of the way.
(23:28):
That kind of thing obvious thing, taking turns to comp, and all
that sort of stuff, although,yes, it is possible to comp it
together.
It's just a question of it notbeing very delicately done
Geoff (23:40):
Ok, excellent.
Do you think you have ahighlight of your career or a
memorable gig that you've done?
Chris (23:47):
There was a gig with the Palestinian singer, Omar Kamal
at the Pyramid in of your careeror a memorable gig that you've
done.
There was a gig with thePalestinian singer, Omar Kamal
at the Pyramid in 2018, whichwas just for the awesomeness of
the spectacle of playing infront of the pyramids.
That was.
That was quite amazing in Cairo.
Geoff (23:59):
Yeah, the actual thing, the actual pyramid.
Chris (24:01):
You don't mean the pyramid stage at Glastonbury,
not the pyramid stage ofGlastonbury though I'd like to
do that and I never had, so thatwas pretty awesome.
Also playing I've played umstage of Glastonbury though I'd
like to do that and I never have, so that was pretty awesome.
Also playing I've played um uh,a number of times with my own
band at the Pizza Express and atRonnie's, which is always that
always feels like a highlight.
Geoff (24:17):
Yeah, do you enjoy being a band leader?
Chris (24:21):
Yes and no.
I find it a bit.
I find it it's vastly morestressful than not being a band
leader.
Geoff (24:26):
It can be incredibly rewarding yeah, what was the
last concert you went to?
Chris (24:30):
Well, I went to see one last night, actually just round
the corner, but it's just mylocal gig.
You know Stefan Redtenbacker'sFunkestra.
No, it was the Joni Mitchellthing.
With Jana Varga, PeteBillington and I forget the name
of the drummer, but it was verynice.
The last sort of gig that Iwent out of my way to go and see
was Tigran Hamasyan, actuallyat Cadogan Hall a few months ago
(24:53):
playing solo piano, which wasincredible.
Geoff (24:56):
What would you say was your musical weakness?
Chris (24:59):
Well, I've spent my whole adult life trying to address
quite a number of musicalweaknesses, which I guess is the
way to improve, isn't itProbably memory musical
weaknesses, which I guess is theway to improve, isn't it, you
know, probably um memory I Istruggle to.
I struggle to memorize things,some things I can memorize and
they just sort of stay, but likethat's, that's a that's an
issue.
Geoff (25:19):
Is that because you're so used to reading music and it's
always in front of you and youdon't have to memorize it?
Chris (25:24):
I guess there are some things that I've never, that
I've learned that there neverhas been music for.
I've never looked at it and Iknow.
But then I guess it depends ifthe music's really complicated
and there are loads of slashchords and changing time
signatures and things like that.
It's more information, isn't it?
Learning Little Wing is easierthan you know.
(25:44):
Do you ever get nervous onstage?
Yes , Half the time it can be quite
stressful and half the time it'sjust fine.
And there doesn't seem to beany kind of correlation in terms
of external sort of stuff goingon as to why that is, as far as
I can tell.
Geoff (26:00):
What do you think is causing that?
Lack of preparation or too manypeople in the audience?
Chris (26:06):
No, I honestly think that and I've had this conversation
with many people.
Actually, I don't know what thecorrelation is.
Obviously, if you areunprepared or something's really
really difficult about it, thenit's going to be stressful
anyway.
But there are times when, youknow, the situation is quite
exposed and quite intense andthere have been gigs where is
(26:31):
quite exposed and quite intenseand there have been gigs where
it's being televised or and orthere's something that's solo
guitar.
For ages I did a um a number oftours with a great singer, Lea
Salonga, and there's always asolo acoustic guitar or
classical guitar thing and voicewith, and there was the.
It's always somehow reallyreally stressful and intense.
You know, yeah, yeah, doingthat at the Albert Hall, yeah,
it was quite sort of intense.
You know, it's always somehowreally really stressful and
intense.
Yeah, yeah, Doing that at theAlbert Hall was quite sort of
(26:51):
intense,
Geoff (26:51):
that's always an occasion isn't it
Chris (26:53):
yeah.
Geoff (26:54):
A couple of silly questions.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Chris (26:58):
Oh sandwich.
Well, I quite like a hummus andfalafel wrap.
It's not really a sandwich, isit Probably sandwich?
Tuna melt maybe.
Geoff (27:05):
Tuna melt Very good.
Chris (27:09):
I think you were eating some hummus.
Geoff (27:10):
As we came in, I was eating hummus.
Yeah, what about a favoritemovie?
Chris (27:12):
Many years ago I would have probably said Star Wars.
I watched a movie the other daythat was very interesting
actually, called Mirror Mask,British made movie and I believe
did the soundtrack, which isfantastic actually
I also read on your cv thatyou've you've actually made some
music for movies
Oh yeah, relatively small capacity but I'd love to do
more of it.
But yeah, I um played quite abit of tango music over the last
(27:36):
number of years, not actually,not so much lately, but in a
couple of, in a couple of groups.
I then got asked, because I wasinvolved in tango stuff, to
write some music for this sortof tango scene in this film
called Crowhurst.
Geoff (27:50):
Great.
Is there a favourite venue youlike to play in?
Chris (27:53):
One that's not quite so well known and that I'm very
fond of is, in fact, inColchester, near where I live,
Colchester Arts Centre, becauseI'm very fond of the place.
And it's very close to whereyou live, of course, and it's
very close to where I live, butit also has a really great sound
and it has a really good piano.
Geoff (28:07):
Excellent, excellent.
What about a favourite countryor city that you like to visit?
Chris (28:13):
Well, I love going to Spain.
I love going to South America.
I've been to South Americaquite a bit.
But, cities.
I like San Francisco actually.
Geoff (28:22):
And finally, what's your favourite chord?
I'm sure you're going to playit for us.
Maybe this one?
What about that Whoa, thatrecord?
I'm sure you're gonna play itfor us.
Chris (28:38):
It's beautiful.
Tell me what a good one Playall the notes from the from the
bottom up.
So it's going.
It's like E minor, nine, majorseven, sharp 11.
I only said that because therewas a thing a while ago, in
lockdown a Guildhall guitar hang, a regular guitar hang, just to
keep everyone from going insane, and there was a thing called
the Cod or Chord of the Day, orCow Chord of the Week, and so
(29:01):
everyone would try and come upwith the most awkward chords
they could think of to try.
And you know, yeah, that's verysimilar, but with a different
voicing.
That's quite a good Metheny one, you could call that like.
Geoff (29:18):
Well, there's again play all those notes from the bottom
up.
Chris (29:25):
So it's like D flat major seven 7, sharp 9 sharp 11.
Or you could call it.
I remember Malcolm Edmonstonewhen he was the head of jazz at
Guildhall, who's very good withchords.
He described this as Fm Maj 9Sus2 over Db.
So he had a good reason for it.
Geoff (29:49):
So there's another one last question.
Would you prefer C9 sus or Bflat over C?
Chris (29:56):
Oh, well, that's a good question.
That well I think I wouldprefer.
I prefer C 13 sus four.
Yeah, I reckon that's one ofthose chords that play on the
guitar.
That's one of those chordsthat's easy to play on the
guitar, or you can play it likethat.
That's one of those chords withabout 400 names.
Geoff (30:16):
It's interesting.
You speak to piano players,don't you about?
Do they prefer the slashversion or do?
Chris (30:20):
they do.
The Piano players tend to bemore slashy, don't they?
I think it's easier to see itall on the piano.
No, I don't mind slash chords.
That's um depending, yeah, butI think if it's easy, if it's
easy to write it out without aslash chord, I'd rather, I'd
rather it were just, you know,straightforward, more
straightforward um, if it wassoul music or something, then
quite often you'd see b flatover c.
Geoff (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's true yeah, g minor nine, b flat c
rather than c sus.
Yeah, you know exactly whatyou're going to get, I suppose.
Chris (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's a sort of genre thing.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Geoff (30:55):
Well, there we go.
I think that'll do it.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
It's been fascinating.
Thank you
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Yeah, I'll look forward tochecking out the new apps as
they appear.
Qu to checking out the new apps as they appear, Quartet
3 and 4 has Pat Metheny on it.
Has it really?
Yeah, wow, Always and Forever,Better Days Ahead, Bright Size
(31:16):
Life.
Chris (31:17):
Oh, fantastic First song It's.
Geoff (31:18):
Just Talk.
oh, you've got loads, james.
Oh, question and answer.
And he recorded Old Folks aswell, didn't he Old Folks?
He was on Question and Answer.
Chris (31:26):
And he recorded Old Folks as well, didn't he Old Folks?
He was on Question and Answer.
Geoff (31:29):
Yeah, So May It Secretly Begin, Waltz for Ruth.
Chris (31:33):
From the first tune from yeah, from the Missouri Sky,
yeah, so they're all there.
Oh amazing, a whole Methenysection.
Geoff (31:41):
It's there, yeah, incredible.
So we've done Stella byStarlight, of course, in the
first, but now we're getting toKenny Wheeler and Pat Metheny
and Herbie Hancock and all thatstuff.
Yeah, right, there we go.
That's brilliant.
Have a great day, well, thankyou.
Thanks, it's good to be in theback in the Guildhall.
Yeah, thanks, mate.
Chris (32:00):
Thanks, Geoff brilliant.
Announcement (32:02):
Thank you for making it to the end of them as
they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production.
Quartet for iOS, taking yourjazz play along to another level
.
Search for Quartet on the AppStore or find out more at
quartetappdotcom.
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