October 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Geoff is in the picturesque Oxfordshire town of Henley on Thames to meet with the wonderful saxophonist (and former orthopaedic surgeon) Art Themen.
What began with a misassembled clarinet and a missing page turned into a life split between the operating theatre and the bandstand, shaped by New Orleans tone, bebop language, and the stubborn joy of playing for real people in real rooms. We trace the arc from tin whistles and trad bands to hearing Louis Armstrong's All‑Stars in Manchester, discovering Lionel Grigson's bebop road map at Cambridge University, and stepping into the London jazz scene alongside Alexis Korner, Phil Seamen, and a young Rod Stewart in the wings.
We get personal about balance: pulling late‑night gigs through medical school, covering colleagues to tour with Stan Tracey across South America, and learning why calm under lights and calm under surgical lamps feel oddly similar. There's a love letter to Dexter Gordon's ‘Go!’ as the perfect straight‑ahead blueprint, a warm nod to Sonny Rollins' generosity, and a candid take on what non‑musicians really hear at a jazz gig: timbre, breath, humour, and the shared attention that turns solos into stories.
We also open the case on a legend - Ronnie Scott's Selmer Super Balanced Action - how it left the glass cabinet, the rumoured Hank Mobley link, and why a horn with history should still see the stage. We are treated to an impromptu rendition of the Burke/Van Heusen 40s standard ‘It Could Happen To You’ accompanied by the Quartet app (of course!)
Along the way, we talk practice that actually happens: play‑along tools that focus the mind after long days, picking tunes at random to break ruts, and letting new repertoire force fresh lines. We weigh tradition against free improvisation, revisit career highs from Chicago to Hyde Park, and keep it human with quickfire favourites (Coronation Chicken, The Producers, the Bull's Head, Nice…). The thread running through it all is generosity - toward the audience, the band, and the music itself - anchored by the belief that swing and a good joke can live in the same bar.
If you enjoy honest stories, live playing, and craft without pretence, hit follow, share this with a friend who loves Dexter or Rollins, and leave a short review telling us your favourite jazz album and why. Your notes shape the next set.
Presenter: Geoff Gascoyne
Series Producer: Paul Sissons
Production Manager: Martin Sissons
The Quartet Jazz Standards Podcast is a UK Music Apps production.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:05):
I 'm in Henley-on-Thames, which is a beautiful part of
the world.
I'm going tosee a lovely man, Mr Art Themen, we're going to have a chat all about saxophones, about quotes and solos. A little bit about free-jazz and
whatever comesup. So, here we go.
Announcement (00:36):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:45):
So thanks for inviting me today in your lovely home.
Art (00:48):
Thanks for uh thinking of me, Geoff.
I hope it's gonna be cutalright for you.
Geoff (00:52):
Can we just start talking about how you got into jazz?
What was your first influencethat got you thinking and loving
jazz music?
Art (00:58):
Yeah, I think probably it may come as a surprise.
Actually, given my age, it maynot come as a surprise, but I
was probably what I think israther pejoratively described as
a moldy fig because it was thetrad scene, the UK, in the
mid-50s, I suppose.
But before that I did have aninstrument and uh got off to a
rather bad start because I'dshown some kind of aptitude with
(01:20):
tin whistles given to me bykind uncles.
We bought a clarinet.
You know, no tutor, mouthpieceon upside down, tutor book
didn't have, didn't show you theit was page three was missing.
So I got very disillusioned.
You could all you can get issqueaks with your teeth on top
of the reed.
Geoff (01:36):
Happens very quickly when you're a child though, doesn't
it?
Art (01:38):
Yeah, you can easily get to solution.
So I think if there's a lessonfor anybody with children
thinking about jazz, getyourself a inst a proper
instrument and a teacher.
Yeah, so four years elapsed,and then at that stage it was
the three B's, Barber, Ball andBilk, who influenced me.
So I started playing, slavishly copying mainly Chris
(02:00):
Barber's band.
I think there was a tune calledBobby Shafto, played by Monty
Sunshine.
I think it was the first solo Ilearned by ear, including the
mistake.
That's the, more of that later.
Geoff (02:16):
Is there such thing as a wrong note in jazz, though, is
there?
One that hasn't been resolvedyet, surely.
Art (02:22):
So after the sort of trad people, I I think the scales
fell from my eyes when I heardthe New Orleans guys.
Now I'm not sure if you want tohear my trad bit, but I suppose
we're the word.
I think the first realinfluence was Johnny Dodds, who
um I'm laughing now, largelybecause um I'm switching
forwards to contemporary timeswhere Denny Eilert wants to form
(02:44):
a trad band with me onclarinet, and he's nicknamed me
Johnny Doddery.
But no, but um Johnny Dodds waswas uh yeah one of my first
idols.
He was yeah, very New Orleans,wobbly tone, virtually no
technique, but the sound, youknow.
So Burgundy Street Blues was uhGeorge Lewis was was was the
first one, and then followed onto people like Edmund Hall.
(03:06):
I heard Louis Armstrong, I amthat old, in 1956 when he came
to the UK.
Geoff (03:12):
You heard Louis Armstrong play live?
Art (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, with the All-Stars.
Geoff (03:15):
Wow.
Art (03:16):
My my memory, as you would subsequently discover, is not
very good at my age, but I canremember all the members of his
band, you know.
Geoff (03:23):
Where did you see him play?
Art (03:24):
Um it was in Manchester, my hometown.
Right.
Uh Bellevue.
So Edmund Hall on clarinet,Billy Kyle, Trummy Young on
trombone, Arvell Shaw on bass.
So that's it.
That's the best you'll get outof my out of my memory for the
next few minutes.
Geoff (03:37):
That's great.
Art (03:38):
But um that was the beginning of the they ended the
the Musicians' Union ban onthose damn Yankees coming over
and marrying our women andstealing our gigs, sort of
thing.
So Louis was the first band,and I think Stan Kenton was the
next.
I heard Stan Kenton, and thenthe next one was Sidney Bechet.
So I heard Beshet and Armstrongin 1956.
(03:59):
Wow.
So yeah.
Geoff (04:00):
They must have made a huge impression on you?
Art (04:03):
Yeah, Armstrong, particularly, actually, you
know, as he's still he's stillright up there.
Also, Bechet was so dominant,you know, six-piece band, and he
was just Bechet, you know, abit like Coltrane just playing
all the solos intro, Coltranesolo outro.
Geoff (04:18):
So when you saw Louis Armstrong, I mean this is
playing acoustically, though.
Was there any amplification inthose things?
Art (04:23):
Difficult to remember because it was a it was a huge
venue.
You know, it was the main, youknow, you might think that um
the Halle Orchestra would haveyou know allowed them to play
the devil's music, but theydidn't, so it was a just a big
hall, five miles from the centreof Manchester.
I can't remember whether it wasamplified, but I suspect, as
you suggest, not.
Geoff (04:43):
That's amazing.
I mean, especially forinstruments like a double bass
and so on, in a big hall likethat.
Art (04:47):
Made a lasting impression.
Um the clarinet actually didn'tlast, largely because it's a
very tricky instrument.
Anyone who plays a clarinet hasgot my book.
Press a button at the back andit goes up an octave and a half
or something.
So it's like playing twoinstruments for a start.
And the keywork is alldifferent.
The joke is the standard jokeis made of five bits,
mouthpiece, barrel, uppersection, lower section, bell,
(05:10):
designed by five differentblokes who never met.
You know, but so what changedmy life was listening to it was
the Johnny Dankworth Band.
Before he became JohnDankworth, the local Pally.
They had a band within a band,and um Danny Moss was the
featured tenor player, and itwas a revolving bandstand, and
he came round um in his whitetuxedo and his wonderful sort of
(05:32):
curated beard.
And I was with my cousin by bymarriage, my Irish cousin, a
year older, she was probably 16or 17, and Danny winked at her,
and I thought, that's it for theclarinet.
So I bought a saxophone fairlysoon after that.
That's where I learned myprimitive reading was uh in
dance bands, learning that toget anywhere, particularly with
a saxophone, you you've got tolearn to read.
(05:53):
I suppose after that, when Iwent to college, I was still
playing mainstream, I suppose.
I could I could get round SweetGeorgia Brown, but that was
quite late, you know, SweetGeorgia Brown at 18 is pretty
late compared with you know thelikes of Skid, I think, who
started when he was six and wasplaying Coltrain by the time he
was 18.
But what changed my life atCambridge was Lionel Grigson,
(06:17):
who I think he subsequently wasprofessor at the Guildhall or
the Royal Academy, slightlybristly character.
Geoff (06:23):
He wrote those satanic changes books, didn't he?
That's right.
Yeah, they were the very earlyReal Books.
Art (06:28):
With Charlie Parker on the front page, and he was turning
to the to the bass player, andhe said, You're playing the
wrong changes, you know.
You haven't read LionelGrigson's book.
It wasn't you, Geoff.
You you always play the rightchanges.
Geoff (06:41):
Thank you very much.
But it but I remember thosebooks, they were quite long,
long and narrow with lots oflittle boxes full of chord
shapes, weren't they?
Art (06:48):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I've still I've still got one.
It's got a red cover.
But we you know, when Lionelarrived, so I would be 18 or 90,
he almost sprang from the wombas Torres Silver.
He had it all and influenced usall.
So we suddenly became from asort of mainstream well Bill
Davidson sort of band to Bebop.
(07:09):
This sounds immodest actually,but in those days there was a
lot of interest in jazz in theuniversities, and we used to
sweep the board because therewere very good people around.
Colin Perbert was was wasthere, and Dick Heckstall- Smith
was there as well.
Geoff (07:23):
So you came down to Cambridge.
I know you were studying uhmedicine, weren't you?
Yeah.
But you were playing allthrough that time as well, were
you?
Art (07:30):
Yeah, you know, I was a relatively rich student because
I was playing gigs three or fournights a week.
I got a third in my first year,so I I got banned from playing
the saxophone.
Because they thought it wasinterrupting your study.
That's right.
Humphrey Littleton at Eton, Ihis school report was too much
trumpet.
Well, I was I was banned, but Ithought sod that I'm not going
to take any notice.
I used to climb through thewindow after midnight after my
(07:50):
gigs.
Geoff (07:51):
And then when you came to London, did you find yourself
as part of the session scene aswell?
Art (07:55):
Not the session scene.
No, thanks to Dick Heckstall-Smith, who was two or three
years ahead of me at Cambridge,he was by then blue saxophonist.
So by then he was um withAlexis Korners band.
And Alexis, he sort of changedpersonnel rather like he changed
his shirts, actually.
But I think that there was amass exodus of Jack Bruce and
Ginger Baker and Graham Bond toform, I think, The Graham Bond
(08:19):
organization, which was theprecursor of Cream.
So there were three gaps, andDick got me into that band.
And the drummer replacingGinger with Phil Seaman, a kind
of doyen of British drummers.
Jazz drummer, okay.
He did everything else.
He played sessions, he was theonly drummer who could play um
the Bernstein.
West Side Story.
West Side Story, yeah, he wasthe only drummer.
(08:40):
He got sacked from that, youknow, from you doing a gong in
the wrong place.
And they looked around for adrummer the following day and
they couldn't find him.
He got reinstated.
So the jazz drummer, bluessaxophonist, Alex, who I don't
mean to be, he played with acapoe.
That's a bit of a cop-out, butnevertheless, he was a you know,
he was a really good bluesplayer.
So it was a sort of mélange ofCharlie Mingus meets T-bone
(09:01):
Walker.
You know, it was jazz, blues.
So that launched me into thesort of pro scene actually in
London.
And that, as I say, lasted ayear, because I think we all got
the bullet at one stage.
And I was picked up by LongJohn Baldry's band.
So don't tell anybody, I wasone of Long John Baldry's
hoochie coochie men.
(09:22):
But the rhythm section wereHumphrey Lyttleton's rhythm
section, really full-on jazzrhythm section, and all sorts of
people like Julie Driscoll andBrian Auger were sort of, Rod
Stewart was the second singer.
Geoff (09:34):
So you were well ensconced in the medical world
by this stage, were you?
And so you were trying tobalance the two things?
Is that is that how it worked?
Art (09:40):
I think at that stage I was more or less qualified.
Yeah.
You do a house job for a yearin medicine and surgery, and
then if you're going intosurgery, you do junior surgical
jobs in various specialties.
Then eventually you become asenior registrar in that
specialty.
Geoff (09:53):
Which takes a long time, wasn't it?
Art (09:54):
It took about ten years.
Geoff (09:56):
Did you ever find it difficult to balance the two?
Art (09:58):
Short answer, no.
Yeah, but people were alwaysvery understanding.
The very first job, which wasreally quite demanding because
you're on alternate nights, um,I was with a rugby player who
played for England.
And he would always play onSaturday afternoon, and I always
play, I would always play onSaturday evening.
We'd just swap, that's the wayit worked.
So it's quite flexible.
Yeah.
And even later on, you know,when I got my consultant job in
(10:20):
in Reading, the guys were very,very understanding.
At that stage, by then I waswith Stan Tracy, and we did we
did a five-week tour of SouthAmerica.
And I paid them back, you know,they were on one night in three
then, there were three of us.
For the next five weeks, I wasuh two on two nights in three.
So you pay them back, but itdidn't it didn't clash.
Geoff (10:39):
But you didn't feel in your head that it was one was
conflicted with another.
Art (10:42):
No, I didn't, but I do realize it was a compromise, and
you know, there was no way Iwas going to become a composer
or an arranger or amulti-instrumentalist or a
session musician who could readyou know, sight read.
Yeah, they they coexisted.
And there it wasn't a choicewhen I was 18 or it sounds a bit
(11:04):
schmaltzy, really.
My father was a doctor, and itwasn't the the thought of you
know finding the cure for AIDSor anything like that.
It was just I knew thatmedicine was going to be an
interesting job.
And I was hooked on jazz.
They grew together.
Geoff (11:20):
So there's a beautiful tenor saxophone sitting next to
us.
Tell us about this.
Art (11:24):
This is almost an embarrassment of riches.
I live in Henley on Thames andthere was a music shop.
It's now it's now closed down.
But on my birthday, I think twoyears ago, Roger Bacock he was
called, he said, Hello Art, I'vegot Ronnie's saxophone and I'm
just about to retire.
Geoff (11:39):
Ronnie Scott's tenor saxphones.
Art (11:40):
Yeah.
I said, I know that because Iremember you had Ronnie's and
Tubby Hayes' in a glass casesaying, not for sale.
How did he get those?
When Ronnie died, I don't knowabout the about Tubby's, but
when Ronnie died, I think thathe died rather suddenly, and the
whole world, you know, theMichael Breckers and all the big
guys were aware of it.
But the family, I think I don'tknow whether they were too
distraught or that they didn'ttake the opportunity of getting
(12:04):
a huge amount of money for it.
And it was eventually sold atauction in London, you know, one
of the big auction houses.
And Roger bought it.
I don't know how much he paidfor it.
Geoff (12:14):
Right.
Art (12:14):
So it was it was sitting in a glass case.
Anyway, he said, I'm about toretire and I'm ringing round and
I want it to go to a good home.
And I said, How many peoplehave you wrong round?
And he said, Well, you're closeand you're the first.
I said, I'll have it, quick asa flash.
Now, it's priceless.
It is priceless.
To me, anyway.
Ronnie was my hero.
Ronnie was my saxphone hero inin the UK.
(12:35):
And despite that, Roger, Godbless him, um, he must have been
a hard-nosed businessmanbecause on his wall was a sign
saying, Warning, prices may varyaccording to the attitude of
the customer.
And he sold it to me for thegoing rate.
For the, you know, the averageprice for this is a Selmer's
Super Balanced Action.
He sold it to me for theaverage price of a Selmer, you
(12:55):
know, despite its provenance.
And there's another, I think,unproven and probably not true
anecdote about it is that Ronniewas very kind to Hank Mobley,
another of my heroes, when Hankwas at the end of his life and
in a bit of a state, and he gaveHank work.
And it was said that Hank cameover with two tenor saxophones
and gave Ronnie this.
(13:16):
Now, you know, I
Geoff (13:17):
So that was that was Hank's.
Art (13:19):
It is it is it is conceivable, but I'd like to do
that yesterday.
I'd like to believe it, but Ican't.
I've looked at I've looked atthe picture on uh what Soul
Station, you know, and it's youknow there are no identifying
marks, unfortunately.
But it's a nice, it's a lovelyeye.
Yeah, or just is it a good onethough, is it?
Yeah, it's it it is.
Yeah, I don't I don't play itall the time.
(13:39):
I got it out especially becauseI knew you were going to ask me
to play a little bit.
I just got it out againyesterday, and it it is, it's a
dream.
Geoff (13:46):
It's not the one that you take on gigs then?
Art (13:48):
I do take it on some gigs, yeah.
It's gotta be it's gotta beused.
You can't.
Of course it does.
It's been it's fed up the bigin a glass case for 15 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Geoff (13:55):
So you say Ronnie was was a hero.
Did you play alongside Ronnieat all?
Art (13:59):
Towards the end of his life, I did a few deps for him,
which was you know quite anhonour.
But I I would go to the cluband listen to him, and I know
it's not a contest, but he washe was my favourite by a country
mile, actually.
Geoff (14:10):
And what about Tubby?
Did you did you?
Art (14:11):
I love yeah, I love Tubby.
It was the medical bit, I'mafraid.
I worked at St.
Mary's Hospital and Tubby camein with heart problems.
I just said hello, that wasall.
But I I did know him.
And one of the saddest thingsthat I remember at the club
shortly before he died, it washis big band and Stan Robinson,
who is a fellow Mancunian.
Stan was playing Tubby's partsin the big band in Ronnie's, and
(14:32):
Tubby was sitting therewatching, and it was one of the
saddest things I've seen.
Geoff (14:36):
So, how long have you been retired from?
Art (14:38):
It's actually nearly 20 years now, 2007.
Geoff (14:41):
Right.
And has your relationship withmusic changed since then?
Art (14:44):
Doing a few more gigs, actually, I suppose.
Yeah, I can concentrate on it abit more and practice a bit
more.
And you know, I I like thevariation, that's the thing.
I'm yeah, yeah, I'm not a bandleader or a very reluctant
occasional band leader.
Yeah, but I like the variation.
Geoff (14:59):
Do you practice a lot?
Art (15:00):
I try and practice an hour a day.
Geoff (15:02):
Do you what do you practice?
Technical things or tunes orwhat?
Art (15:05):
Tunes, technical things.
Um incidentally, if anyone'slistening, Geoff Gascoyne is a
hero because he has thiswonderful play-along thing which
I , I recommend to all of you.
I've only just started itbecause he only just downloaded
it for me, but but um it is tentimes better than any other
product of a similar nature onthe market.
And I'm, you know, Geoff is notprodding me to say this, but it
(15:28):
is absolutely wonderful.
Because you know, both Geoffand I, when we were learning,
um, unfortunately, because I'm alot older than Geoff, um, that
these things weren't available,so I had to do you know, do it
from scratch as it was.
Geoff (15:39):
So you started before the Jamey Aebersold, you know.
I remember using them so much,that was a big thing for me.
That was which is kind of why Iwanted to create these apps,
you know, because this is the itis absolutely wonderful.
I mean, what I tend to do, ifI'm a bit bored or something and
I can't think of what topractice, I'll just pick
something at random.
Yeah, so I mean, obviously youyou can use it to to learn
tunes, you know, or practicetunes that you're gonna play at
(16:01):
a gig or something, but it'salso a great way of just passing
the time, you know.
Art (16:06):
It's like I I've heard people sort of diss play-alongs,
and I'd for me it was the onlything I could do because I okay,
I was quite busy.
It wasn't 9 to 5, it was kindof 7:30 a.m.
till 6.30 p.m.
sometimes.
And I come home a bitphysically tired, but I plug
myself into an Aebersold and youknow, I'd play for an hour.
Uh you know, I thinkplay-alongs are a very good way
(16:28):
of concentrating the mind.
Geoff (16:29):
I totally agree.
So I asked you to pick a tuneto play today.
Art (16:40):
Okay, well, my favourite of all the tenor players, I would
say that Dex was the mostinfluential.
Geoff (16:45):
Okay.
Art (16:46):
So uh I loved his contrafact on It Could Happen to
You.
Geoff (16:49):
So we're gonna play It Could Happen to You
Art (16:50):
Is that, Is that okay?
Geoff (16:51):
Yeah.
So what you're gonna hear is aneight-bar introduction, yeah,
and then there'll be twochoruses.
The first chorus will be intwo, and the second chorus will
be, the bass will go into four.
Um
Art (17:01):
I'm just making sure this is working.
Yeah, close enough for jazz.
Geoff (18:59):
That was awesome.
I love your quotes in there.
Well, there's nothing wrongwith a little bit of humour in
jazz.
Art (19:04):
Humour, I think it's it's critical actually.
I think jazz can be a bit toopo-faced.
Well, there are some masters atthat at it, like uh Jim.
Geoff (19:13):
Jim.
Yeah.
I was gonna say, I I wasspeaking to him a couple of
weeks ago and he said exactlythe same thing.
Art (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think the Miles did alot of harm by turning his back
on the audience and being, youknow.
Geoff (19:24):
Takes the entertainment out of it, doesn't it?
Art (19:26):
It is entertainment.
You know, you don't have towear a fancy waistcoat and a
bowler hat, but sorry, Acker.
Yeah, it it brings the audiencein, but it's it's also part of
what you've taken in over theyears.
We're tunesmiths, and why whynot use a little bit of the tune
that you've heard?
Geoff (19:42):
So I'm gonna ask you some questions if that's alright.
The same questions toeverybody.
Starting off with what's yourfavourite album?
Art (19:48):
It is Dexter Gordon, actually.
It's Go.
Um, Bebop, piano, bass drums,saxophone.
I never actually met him, but II heard him a few times.
And it he was the bridge.
I know I know that Parkerreinvented jazz, but the older
saxophonists they they didn't dowhat Dexter did.
The other older tenor players,Dexter just, he assimilated what
had gone before and heassimilated Parker and then
(20:10):
handed the keys of the kingdomon to Rollins, who Rollins was
another great favourite.
You know, he looks the part aswell.
It's the package, you know,it's this the long, tall Dexter
package.
He's the archite I'm you I'moverusing that word, archetypal
sort of jazz musician.
Right.
I'm but I did meet Rollins.
Rollins is you know, Rollinswas lovely.
As I say, I heard heardColtrane very early on, and I
(20:31):
didn't, I didn't, it didn'tactually grab me.
You know, I didn't quiteunderstand it.
Maybe if I hadn't been so old,I would have pr prosen, chosen
someone a little bit moremodern.
But yeah, with with GeorgeLewis in mind and Chris Potter
at the other end, you've got toyou've got to be somewhere, and
it's I think it's Dexter, justslightly towards the the
beginning.
Geoff (20:51):
Excellent, excellent.
Um, is there a favouritemusician, alive or dead, that
you would have liked to haveplayed with?
Art (20:58):
I think that's got to be Rollins, actually.
I'm sorry to be a bit boringand tenor saxophone orientated.
There's a there's a sort of Idon't mean it's an immodest
Rollins anecdote, but he playedwith Stan at uh Stan Tracy a
lot, that's who I was with fornearly 20 years.
So Rollins admired Stan.
Don't do you not know how goodthis guy is?
I think was was Stan's thequote about Stan.
(21:19):
And uh I met Rollins in Bombaywith Stan's quartet.
And then I think two years orthree years later, I went to
hear him at the Queen ElizabethHall.
And as Art out had his dressingroom door, he opened the door
and he actually said, Hello Art.
Now that's not a mere measureof how famous I am or anything
like that.
It's a measure of how he sortof seemed to have this approach
(21:44):
to life in general and picked upon people who were important in
his life, like Stan, and thenprojected it onto his one of his
side men is here, Art.
I'd you know, nearly , heartnearly stopped.
Geoff (21:55):
Wow, that's a big career moment, isn't it, when someone
like that remembers your name.
So my next question is whatwould you say was the highlight
of your career?
Art (22:03):
Oh, it's yeah, that's very tricky, isn't it?
We did the Chicago JazzFestival , quite a few.
With Stan?
Yeah, yeah, with Stan.
Dare I mention Hyde Park withJack Bruce?
It was sort of
Geoff (22:13):
Absolutely.
Drop as many names as you want.
That is what we want.
Art (22:16):
Yeah, Jack Bruce, he was very, very kind to me.
I only did, I don't know, about10 gigs, I think.
Right.
One of the things I rememberabout it, Ginger was in it, of
course.
It it was it was really sort ofpowerful music.
It was it was one step furtherthat than than the uh Alexis
Korner Blues Band.
It elevated a little bit andsort of uh left the ground.
Geoff (22:37):
Very rocky, I guess, right?
Art (22:39):
Yeah, very rocky.
I think it was a little bitfree form, but then I dabbled a
little bit in free form withwith one of Stan's many bands.
Geoff (22:46):
What you'll find as you go through Quartet, there's two
tracks which are freeimprovisation.
Art (22:51):
You've covered the whole thing.
Geoff (22:53):
Yeah, so this was my idea for Quartet three and four.
I wanted to try out somethingbecause obviously it's all on a
click, but yeah, what you willhear is us improvising, and
Steve Fishwick is on trumpet.
Oh, right, okay.
So there's four there's there'stwo tracks where we just play
one sort of loosely minor andone's loosely major.
See, I want you to see what youthink.
It's uh yeah, okay.
Art (23:11):
It's uh an experiment.
Yeah, no, I love Steve.
He's he's in one of the bandsthat I think he's playing.
Geoff (23:16):
Yeah, I've got a lot of time for free improvisation, I
must I must say, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I often think about jazzaudiences in in general, to be
honest.
I don't know if you think aboutthis, but what are they
hearing?
What is it they're latching onto?
Because we can hear form and wecan hear changes, right?
But non-musicians can't.
What do you think?
What do you think it is thatthey responding to?
Art (23:34):
Sort of tonal variation.
The saxophone does everythingfrom the breathy to very
piercing.
It there must be somethingarresting that draws people in.
I I can't intellectualise it.
That's that's one of theproblems.
You know, you it's it'sentertainment, and I think that
it is accessible entertainment.
Yeah, but it's not asaccessible as unfortunately rock
music.
So there's the you know, hencethe the rock musician playing
(23:56):
three chords to a thousandpeople and we playing the
thousand chords to three thirtypeople.
Geoff (24:00):
That's a good joke, yeah.
Following on from the samequestion, do you have a
favourite recorded moment ofyourself?
Something that you you'verecorded that you're most proud
of?
Art (24:08):
Now, this sounds falsely modest, and I don't mean it.
I can't listen to anything Iplay.
I'd there nothing at all.
Yeah, well, hardly at all.
There are one or one or two ofthe quite a few recordings that
I've done that are still intheir cellophane cellophane
packages.
If pressed, I would probablysay when yeah, after Stan died
and after Ronnie died, I had aquartet with John Critch and we
(24:31):
did a Cedar Walton tune.
Um the name escapes me there,yeah.
Geoff (24:42):
I'll look that up when I get home.
Okay.
My next question is what wasthe last concert you attended?
Art (24:47):
Oh, that's a good one.
Um yesterday I went to hearAdrian Cox, who is a clarinet
player.
You know, cut him in half.
You would see rather like astick of Blackpool rock, you
wouldn't see Blackpool, you'dsee New Orleans.
Geoff (25:00):
Right.
Art (25:00):
And it was with a trio, it was locally, you know, just up
the up in the Chilterns.
And he's tremendous.
Again, I said about Dexterbeing the full package.
He's the full package, emotion,ability to communicate with the
audience, variability.
You might think just NewOrleans, oh blamey, you've just
New Orleans.
It was wonderful.
Entertaining.
Yeah, entertaining, yeah.
(25:21):
So that was that was yesterday.
Fantastic.
He he sang as well.
He had the audience spellboundjust with a piano accompaniment
singing, Nobody Knows theTrouble I've Seen that.
You know, and it's this is notI mean, we are ostensibly modern
jazz musicians, but you know,that's what I heard yesterday.
Geoff (25:38):
Fabulous, yeah.
What would you say was yourmusical weakness?
Art (25:42):
Never having been to music school.
I know it makes a bigdifference, and mine was a
compromise.
I said earlier that I was nevergoing to be able to compose.
I can read a bit, but I'm
Geoff (25:52):
So you've never composed any music?
No.
You're not alone.
I mean that's um
Art (25:55):
But I, I did actually I tried when I was starting off in
medicine, you could do thefirst three years, which is
without patients, and then youcould you could do the first
three years in two years, andthen I applied to do the third
year doing music.
I know it wouldn't have beenjazz because it would have been
Bach and nothing wrong withBach, but it would have been
classical music.
But nevertheless, it I wouldhave been able to read and
(26:16):
transpose better and understandharmony.
But they said, Art, you got thethird in your first year, okay.
You upped it, you're up, yougot a second in your second
year, but you're not cleverenough to do it.
I had to do the three years,and I I regret that, but it's it
was absolutely right.
And I ended up as an orthopedicsurgeon and not a brain
surgeon.
Geoff (26:34):
Well, it's not brain surgery, is it?
That's the joke.
Yeah.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
Art (26:40):
You're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Geoff (26:41):
Um, do you ever get nervous on stage?
Art (26:44):
Not particularly.
Fairfield Hall with Stan yearsago, and I felt a little bit
like, what are we gonna play?
This is typical of the man, hesaid, no idea.
And I think at that stage, whatthe hell?
So not particularly.
Geoff (26:57):
That comes from the freeness, I suppose you were
able to create something fromnothing, aren't you?
Art (27:02):
Yeah, well, he we at that stage it was still fairly
standard, you know, Monkparticularly, but um I think he
had the right approach.
He was nerveless.
And I wouldn't say I wasnervous, but no, I don't break
out into a sweat.
Same with surgery, you know,you everyone thinks that
surgeons have a sort ofattractive nurse mopping their
brow during difficulty.
Not at all.
It's
Geoff (27:22):
Being a surgeon, is is that nerve-wracking at all?
Art (27:25):
No, not at all.
No.
No.
Geoff (27:26):
So what you're you're talking about with a knife and
you're you've got people underyou.
Art (27:30):
No, not at all.
No, it's it's very cut anddried.
Geoff (27:33):
Literally cut.
Oh, sorry, sorry.
That's a good point.
Art (27:36):
I think I think probably, you know, the sort of the sharp
end of surgery.
As I've said earlier, it's youknow,
Geoff (27:41):
Kick me out.
Sorry,it keeps getting worse and worse.
Art (27:43):
You set them up and ask them.
Um the sharp end of surgery,you know, heart surgery and and
you know, I suppose I suppose itis a bit banging in the hip.
G (27:53):
What's the most hairy surgery you've ever performed, then?
Art (27:55):
Um, probably doing general surgery, because you've got to
do a little bit of everything.
And uh okay.
I was at a uh peripheral Londonhospital doing general surgery,
and I was standing on.
I've I've mentioned earlierpeople standing on for you know
the senior registrar who wassenior to me, and I was only a
junior general surgicalregistrar.
(28:16):
Um he asked me on cover forhim, and the emergency came in,
and it was a knife wound, it wasa crime of passion, and it was
a lady who'd stabbed herunfaithful husband and gone
through the abdomen and throughthe diaphragm and through the
liver and up into the heart, andit had sliced the what's called
(28:37):
the pericardium, which is thethe covering of the heart, so
the heart was sort of beatingaway.
And I'd never seen that before.
So I rang up the boss, and theboss happened to be the
president of the Royal Collegeof Surgeons, and I said, You're
Theman here, and he said, Whoare you?
And I said, well, I'm theregistrar, I'm standing on for
(28:58):
Mr.
Such and Such.
Why?
You know, and he sort of it wascholeric.
You could I did over the phone,the phone would have melted,
Salvador Dali-like.
Anyway, he said, you know, Isaid, No, leave the pericordium,
boy! And I sort of left thepericordium so that yeah, the
patient survived actually, butthat was the hair, that was the
hairiest moment.
Geoff (29:15):
Right.
That was.
God, you get your hands insidesomeone else, can't you?
Yeah.
So were you, were you eversqueamish or anything?
I don't suppose it's for the.
Art (29:22):
Yeah, a bit squeamish.
I don't like insects, and youhave to do zoology.
So the worst bit, I think theworst bit of everything was
dissecting a cockroach.
It sort of cured me a littlebit, but not much.
Geoff (29:34):
Right, I've got a few more questions.
Okay.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Art (29:38):
Uh, I'm put in mind of the lovely Don Weller.
You know, he was a man of fewwords, but if there was a
silence in a conversation, he'dmake conversation by saying, I
had a cheese sandwich once.
No, I'm afraid.
So that's what that's whatcomes to mind.
But I've probably no, I thinkI'll go for when when Elizabeth
was crowned queen, thecoronation, the coronation.
(29:59):
Chicken, I think, was
Geoff (30:01):
I love Coronation Chicken too, yeah.
Art (30:03):
Yeah, so there we are.
Don Weller was the one who, when you went to China
Yeah, that's right.
You tell the story.
No, go on.
No, you tell the story.
Well, okay, we're we're inChina with Stan's octet,
actually.
And uh it was decided to go andsee uh see the Great Wall of
China.
I think forget we're in Pekingor something.
So we're all assembled, youknow, seven of the eight were
(30:25):
assembled, and Don was still inbed.
So we decided so you know, Don,come on, the the transport's
ready.
You know, we're gonna come,we're gonna see the we're gonna
see the Great Wall.
He says, I've got a wall of myown at home.
I love that.
And he didn't go.
He didn't go.
No, he didn't go.
I've got a wall of my own athome.
Geoff (30:46):
I mean, fair enough, you know.
I went to to Tokyo actually acouple of years ago with a band,
and and uh Robin Aspland was inthe band.
Yeah.
And uh we were only there forlike four days.
He didn't come out of his hotelroom.
I don't think he he evenchanged time zones, he just
stayed up all night and sleptall day, you know.
Art (31:03):
Yeah, yeah.
I've heard that happen.
Geoff (31:06):
Right.
What's your favourite movie?
Art (31:08):
Actually, I've just seen the play, which has been it's
it's been backwards andforwards, it's such a successful
play.
But it's got to be Mel Brooks,The Producers.
It's gotta be.
Yeah, because you know okay,that's fresh in my mind because
there's a there's a there's asort of adaptation in the in the
West End right now, but youcan't beat Zero Mostel and I
can't remember the the the otherguy, but yeah, it's yeah.
Geoff (31:32):
I mean the new the new version, do they still have
Springtime for Hitler?
Art (31:35):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I read the crit before before Iwent, and he said it was almost
almost too much, yeah.
That sort of um sort of gayaspect as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but it was it was it wasvery good production, but the
the the the the film I know it'stotally outrageous and you
probably
Geoff (31:52):
No, it's a classic.
Art (31:53):
Yeah, but it is a classic.
Geoff (31:54):
Um is there a favourite venue you like to play in?
Art (31:58):
I suppose because I've done it most of my life, but less so
now because they're lessinterested in jazz.
Is I play at the Bull's Head,Barnes, which is uh yeah, we did
we did a gig recently threeweeks ago, and uh you know I I
did it probably once a month forI don't know 40-50 years.
(32:20):
It's it's less frequent now,but you know it's
Geoff (32:23):
But it was a lovely crowd when we played, didn't we?
Was it a Saturday night weplayed?
Art (32:27):
It was a Friday night.
Friday night, yeah.
Yeah, it was because your namewas up in the in the coming off
the piano.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was a great rhythmsection, Sebastian de Krom and
uh um Liam Dunachie on piano.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um I like this, I love The Six.
Yeah, I'm there on Sunday.
Geoff (32:42):
Lovely.
Do you have a favourite placein the world, a favourite
country, or a favourite city?
Art (32:47):
I'm a bit of a francophile.
It's almost a cliche to say Ilove I love the south, I love
the mountains.
Um France is, you know, it'sgot the food and it's got it's
got the sea and it's got themountains, and it's big and it's
got the French people.
Yeah, I'd say Nice, actually,and Nice is a good stuff.
Nice, yeah, very nice.
Geoff (33:07):
So I've got one last question, um, and it is what's
your favourite chord?
Art (33:12):
Right.
I I don't have perfect pitch.
I you know, I I think I thinkthat the people who do have
perfect pitch sometimes say it'snot a good thing to have.
But if I'm listening tosomething, I don't know I won't
know what key it's in.
So I'll put it in C.
I'll put it in C on thesaxophone, actually.
Geoff (33:29):
Yeah.
Art (33:29):
So I think I'm probably saying B major seventh, B flat
major seventh in concert.
But I think you know what Imean is C major seventh on the
saxophone.
Geoff (33:40):
Yeah.
Art (33:40):
Because if I hear something, because I'm not a
complete musician, I would putit into C on the saxophone.
Geoff (33:46):
Okay.
Yeah, I do a similar thingactually.
When I listen into the, I don'thave perfect pitch either, but
I'll listen to a thing and thenand I can hear where it's going,
one, four, three, six, yeah,yeah, that's right.
One or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would do the same thing.
So I'll imagine one is C, sofour is four is F.
Art (34:01):
Yeah.
Geoff (34:01):
Three is three is E minor, two, you know, A minor.
Art (34:03):
Yeah, that's a good good question.
You know, I I hope I'd answerthat correctly.
Geoff (34:06):
No, no, it's a lovely, lovely thing, yeah.
Do you ever use licks oranything like that when you
play?
Art (34:11):
I suppose so.
I think we all do.
I think we yeah, definitely.
Yeah, yeah.
You you do because it's it'slike a quote.
Yeah.
Yeah, oh yeah, I don't yeah, Iwouldn't diss anybody who plays
in moderate everything inmoderation.
Yeah, you know, you mustn'trepeat yourself.
I'm I did a gig at BirminghamFestival, and I remember playing
a tune, and then the secondtune, I ended up playing the
(34:34):
same tune.
You know, that was years ago,and I thought, Christ, I'm you
know, I'm I'm getting the big A,you know, alzheimer's.
Um, I haven't done it since.
But you know, you mustn'trepeat yourself, consciously.
It's gotta be, you've got tochange.
Geoff (34:45):
You've got to keep fresh, haven't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also, but by playing newtunes, it makes you play
different things that you've notplayed before, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Uh and now you've got 600 tuneson your Quartet apps.
Art (34:55):
I'm most grateful for that.
And you know, if anybody'slistening, you but you buy this
buy this set of tunes,everybody.
Buy it, yeah.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Geoff (35:03):
Art, thank you so much for your time.
It's been great.
Art (35:06):
No, thank you for making it just as easy.
I was I was at a bit of Iyou've asked me if I was
worried.
I was a bit worried about thisbecause I'm less articulate than
I used to be now.
Geoff (35:16):
You'd be surprised.
No, you'd be it's been amazing,actually.
It'd been really great.
I hope my questions have beenokay.
Art (35:22):
Your questions are perfect, yeah.
Geoff (35:23):
Yes.
It's been a joy, absolute joy,yeah.
Art (35:25):
I think we should have some tea and cake now.
I think tea and cake, yes.
Geoff (35:28):
Yeah, we got some homemade cake.
All right.
Thanks again.
Art (35:30):
Yeah.
Okay, thank you, Geoff.
Announcement (35:33):
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I 'm in Henley-on-Thames, which is a beautiful part of
the world.
I'm going tosee a lovely man, Mr Art Themen, we're going to have a chat all about saxophones, about quotes and solos. A little bit about free-jazz and
whatever comesup. So, here we go.
Announcement (00:36):
The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is brought to
you by the Quartet app for iOS,taking your jazz play along to
another level.
Geoff (00:45):
So thanks for inviting me today in your lovely home.
Art (00:48):
Thanks for uh thinking of me, Geoff.
I hope it's gonna be cutalright for you.
Geoff (00:52):
Can we just start talking about how you got into jazz?
What was your first influencethat got you thinking and loving
jazz music?
Art (00:58):
Yeah, I think probably it may come as a surprise.
Actually, given my age, it maynot come as a surprise, but I
was probably what I think israther pejoratively described as
a moldy fig because it was thetrad scene, the UK, in the
mid-50s, I suppose.
But before that I did have aninstrument and uh got off to a
rather bad start because I'dshown some kind of aptitude with
(01:20):
tin whistles given to me bykind uncles.
We bought a clarinet.
You know, no tutor, mouthpieceon upside down, tutor book
didn't have, didn't show you theit was page three was missing.
So I got very disillusioned.
You could all you can get issqueaks with your teeth on top
of the reed.
Geoff (01:36):
Happens very quickly when you're a child though, doesn't
it?
Art (01:38):
Yeah, you can easily get to solution.
So I think if there's a lessonfor anybody with children
thinking about jazz, getyourself a inst a proper
instrument and a teacher.
Yeah, so four years elapsed,and then at that stage it was
the three B's, Barber, Ball andBilk, who influenced me.
So I started playing, slavishly copying mainly Chris
(02:00):
Barber's band.
I think there was a tune calledBobby Shafto, played by Monty
Sunshine.
I think it was the first solo Ilearned by ear, including the
mistake.
That's the, more of that later.
Geoff (02:16):
Is there such thing as a wrong note in jazz, though, is
there?
One that hasn't been resolvedyet, surely.
Art (02:22):
So after the sort of trad people, I I think the scales
fell from my eyes when I heardthe New Orleans guys.
Now I'm not sure if you want tohear my trad bit, but I suppose
we're the word.
I think the first realinfluence was Johnny Dodds, who
um I'm laughing now, largelybecause um I'm switching
forwards to contemporary timeswhere Denny Eilert wants to form
(02:44):
a trad band with me onclarinet, and he's nicknamed me
Johnny Doddery.
But no, but um Johnny Dodds waswas uh yeah one of my first
idols.
He was yeah, very New Orleans,wobbly tone, virtually no
technique, but the sound, youknow.
So Burgundy Street Blues was uhGeorge Lewis was was was the
first one, and then followed onto people like Edmund Hall.
(03:06):
I heard Louis Armstrong, I amthat old, in 1956 when he came
to the UK.
Geoff (03:12):
You heard Louis Armstrong play live?
Art (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, with the All-Stars.
Geoff (03:15):
Wow.
Art (03:16):
My my memory, as you would subsequently discover, is not
very good at my age, but I canremember all the members of his
band, you know.
Geoff (03:23):
Where did you see him play?
Art (03:24):
Um it was in Manchester, my hometown.
Right.
Uh Bellevue.
So Edmund Hall on clarinet,Billy Kyle, Trummy Young on
trombone, Arvell Shaw on bass.
So that's it.
That's the best you'll get outof my out of my memory for the
next few minutes.
Geoff (03:37):
That's great.
Art (03:38):
But um that was the beginning of the they ended the
the Musicians' Union ban onthose damn Yankees coming over
and marrying our women andstealing our gigs, sort of
thing.
So Louis was the first band,and I think Stan Kenton was the
next.
I heard Stan Kenton, and thenthe next one was Sidney Bechet.
So I heard Beshet and Armstrongin 1956.
(03:59):
Wow.
So yeah.
Geoff (04:00):
They must have made a huge impression on you?
Art (04:03):
Yeah, Armstrong, particularly, actually, you
know, as he's still he's stillright up there.
Also, Bechet was so dominant,you know, six-piece band, and he
was just Bechet, you know, abit like Coltrane just playing
all the solos intro, Coltranesolo outro.
Geoff (04:18):
So when you saw Louis Armstrong, I mean this is
playing acoustically, though.
Was there any amplification inthose things?
Art (04:23):
Difficult to remember because it was a it was a huge
venue.
You know, it was the main, youknow, you might think that um
the Halle Orchestra would haveyou know allowed them to play
the devil's music, but theydidn't, so it was a just a big
hall, five miles from the centreof Manchester.
I can't remember whether it wasamplified, but I suspect, as
you suggest, not.
Geoff (04:43):
That's amazing.
I mean, especially forinstruments like a double bass
and so on, in a big hall likethat.
Art (04:47):
Made a lasting impression.
Um the clarinet actually didn'tlast, largely because it's a
very tricky instrument.
Anyone who plays a clarinet hasgot my book.
Press a button at the back andit goes up an octave and a half
or something.
So it's like playing twoinstruments for a start.
And the keywork is alldifferent.
The joke is the standard jokeis made of five bits,
mouthpiece, barrel, uppersection, lower section, bell,
(05:10):
designed by five differentblokes who never met.
You know, but so what changedmy life was listening to it was
the Johnny Dankworth Band.
Before he became JohnDankworth, the local Pally.
They had a band within a band,and um Danny Moss was the
featured tenor player, and itwas a revolving bandstand, and
he came round um in his whitetuxedo and his wonderful sort of
(05:32):
curated beard.
And I was with my cousin by bymarriage, my Irish cousin, a
year older, she was probably 16or 17, and Danny winked at her,
and I thought, that's it for theclarinet.
So I bought a saxophone fairlysoon after that.
That's where I learned myprimitive reading was uh in
dance bands, learning that toget anywhere, particularly with
a saxophone, you you've got tolearn to read.
(05:53):
I suppose after that, when Iwent to college, I was still
playing mainstream, I suppose.
I could I could get round SweetGeorgia Brown, but that was
quite late, you know, SweetGeorgia Brown at 18 is pretty
late compared with you know thelikes of Skid, I think, who
started when he was six and wasplaying Coltrain by the time he
was 18.
But what changed my life atCambridge was Lionel Grigson,
(06:17):
who I think he subsequently wasprofessor at the Guildhall or
the Royal Academy, slightlybristly character.
Geoff (06:23):
He wrote those satanic changes books, didn't he?
That's right.
Yeah, they were the very earlyReal Books.
Art (06:28):
With Charlie Parker on the front page, and he was turning
to the to the bass player, andhe said, You're playing the
wrong changes, you know.
You haven't read LionelGrigson's book.
It wasn't you, Geoff.
You you always play the rightchanges.
Geoff (06:41):
Thank you very much.
But it but I remember thosebooks, they were quite long,
long and narrow with lots oflittle boxes full of chord
shapes, weren't they?
Art (06:48):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I've still I've still got one.
It's got a red cover.
But we you know, when Lionelarrived, so I would be 18 or 90,
he almost sprang from the wombas Torres Silver.
He had it all and influenced usall.
So we suddenly became from asort of mainstream well Bill
Davidson sort of band to Bebop.
(07:09):
This sounds immodest actually,but in those days there was a
lot of interest in jazz in theuniversities, and we used to
sweep the board because therewere very good people around.
Colin Perbert was was wasthere, and Dick Heckstall- Smith
was there as well.
Geoff (07:23):
So you came down to Cambridge.
I know you were studying uhmedicine, weren't you?
Yeah.
But you were playing allthrough that time as well, were
you?
Art (07:30):
Yeah, you know, I was a relatively rich student because
I was playing gigs three or fournights a week.
I got a third in my first year,so I I got banned from playing
the saxophone.
Because they thought it wasinterrupting your study.
That's right.
Humphrey Littleton at Eton, Ihis school report was too much
trumpet.
Well, I was I was banned, but Ithought sod that I'm not going
to take any notice.
I used to climb through thewindow after midnight after my
(07:50):
gigs.
Geoff (07:51):
And then when you came to London, did you find yourself
as part of the session scene aswell?
Art (07:55):
Not the session scene.
No, thanks to Dick Heckstall-Smith, who was two or three
years ahead of me at Cambridge,he was by then blue saxophonist.
So by then he was um withAlexis Korners band.
And Alexis, he sort of changedpersonnel rather like he changed
his shirts, actually.
But I think that there was amass exodus of Jack Bruce and
Ginger Baker and Graham Bond toform, I think, The Graham Bond
(08:19):
organization, which was theprecursor of Cream.
So there were three gaps, andDick got me into that band.
And the drummer replacingGinger with Phil Seaman, a kind
of doyen of British drummers.
Jazz drummer, okay.
He did everything else.
He played sessions, he was theonly drummer who could play um
the Bernstein.
West Side Story.
West Side Story, yeah, he wasthe only drummer.
(08:40):
He got sacked from that, youknow, from you doing a gong in
the wrong place.
And they looked around for adrummer the following day and
they couldn't find him.
He got reinstated.
So the jazz drummer, bluessaxophonist, Alex, who I don't
mean to be, he played with acapoe.
That's a bit of a cop-out, butnevertheless, he was a you know,
he was a really good bluesplayer.
So it was a sort of mélange ofCharlie Mingus meets T-bone
(09:01):
Walker.
You know, it was jazz, blues.
So that launched me into thesort of pro scene actually in
London.
And that, as I say, lasted ayear, because I think we all got
the bullet at one stage.
And I was picked up by LongJohn Baldry's band.
So don't tell anybody, I wasone of Long John Baldry's
hoochie coochie men.
(09:22):
But the rhythm section wereHumphrey Lyttleton's rhythm
section, really full-on jazzrhythm section, and all sorts of
people like Julie Driscoll andBrian Auger were sort of, Rod
Stewart was the second singer.
Geoff (09:34):
So you were well ensconced in the medical world
by this stage, were you?
And so you were trying tobalance the two things?
Is that is that how it worked?
Art (09:40):
I think at that stage I was more or less qualified.
Yeah.
You do a house job for a yearin medicine and surgery, and
then if you're going intosurgery, you do junior surgical
jobs in various specialties.
Then eventually you become asenior registrar in that
specialty.
Geoff (09:53):
Which takes a long time, wasn't it?
Art (09:54):
It took about ten years.
Geoff (09:56):
Did you ever find it difficult to balance the two?
Art (09:58):
Short answer, no.
Yeah, but people were alwaysvery understanding.
The very first job, which wasreally quite demanding because
you're on alternate nights, um,I was with a rugby player who
played for England.
And he would always play onSaturday afternoon, and I always
play, I would always play onSaturday evening.
We'd just swap, that's the wayit worked.
So it's quite flexible.
Yeah.
And even later on, you know,when I got my consultant job in
(10:20):
in Reading, the guys were very,very understanding.
At that stage, by then I waswith Stan Tracy, and we did we
did a five-week tour of SouthAmerica.
And I paid them back, you know,they were on one night in three
then, there were three of us.
For the next five weeks, I wasuh two on two nights in three.
So you pay them back, but itdidn't it didn't clash.
Geoff (10:39):
But you didn't feel in your head that it was one was
conflicted with another.
Art (10:42):
No, I didn't, but I do realize it was a compromise, and
you know, there was no way Iwas going to become a composer
or an arranger or amulti-instrumentalist or a
session musician who could readyou know, sight read.
Yeah, they they coexisted.
And there it wasn't a choicewhen I was 18 or it sounds a bit
(11:04):
schmaltzy, really.
My father was a doctor, and itwasn't the the thought of you
know finding the cure for AIDSor anything like that.
It was just I knew thatmedicine was going to be an
interesting job.
And I was hooked on jazz.
They grew together.
Geoff (11:20):
So there's a beautiful tenor saxophone sitting next to
us.
Tell us about this.
Art (11:24):
This is almost an embarrassment of riches.
I live in Henley on Thames andthere was a music shop.
It's now it's now closed down.
But on my birthday, I think twoyears ago, Roger Bacock he was
called, he said, Hello Art, I'vegot Ronnie's saxophone and I'm
just about to retire.
Geoff (11:39):
Ronnie Scott's tenor saxphones.
Art (11:40):
Yeah.
I said, I know that because Iremember you had Ronnie's and
Tubby Hayes' in a glass casesaying, not for sale.
How did he get those?
When Ronnie died, I don't knowabout the about Tubby's, but
when Ronnie died, I think thathe died rather suddenly, and the
whole world, you know, theMichael Breckers and all the big
guys were aware of it.
But the family, I think I don'tknow whether they were too
distraught or that they didn'ttake the opportunity of getting
(12:04):
a huge amount of money for it.
And it was eventually sold atauction in London, you know, one
of the big auction houses.
And Roger bought it.
I don't know how much he paidfor it.
Geoff (12:14):
Right.
Art (12:14):
So it was it was sitting in a glass case.
Anyway, he said, I'm about toretire and I'm ringing round and
I want it to go to a good home.
And I said, How many peoplehave you wrong round?
And he said, Well, you're closeand you're the first.
I said, I'll have it, quick asa flash.
Now, it's priceless.
It is priceless.
To me, anyway.
Ronnie was my hero.
Ronnie was my saxphone hero inin the UK.
(12:35):
And despite that, Roger, Godbless him, um, he must have been
a hard-nosed businessmanbecause on his wall was a sign
saying, Warning, prices may varyaccording to the attitude of
the customer.
And he sold it to me for thegoing rate.
For the, you know, the averageprice for this is a Selmer's
Super Balanced Action.
He sold it to me for theaverage price of a Selmer, you
(12:55):
know, despite its provenance.
And there's another, I think,unproven and probably not true
anecdote about it is that Ronniewas very kind to Hank Mobley,
another of my heroes, when Hankwas at the end of his life and
in a bit of a state, and he gaveHank work.
And it was said that Hank cameover with two tenor saxophones
and gave Ronnie this.
(13:16):
Now, you know, I
Geoff (13:17):
So that was that was Hank's.
Art (13:19):
It is it is it is conceivable, but I'd like to do
that yesterday.
I'd like to believe it, but Ican't.
I've looked at I've looked atthe picture on uh what Soul
Station, you know, and it's youknow there are no identifying
marks, unfortunately.
But it's a nice, it's a lovelyeye.
Yeah, or just is it a good onethough, is it?
Yeah, it's it it is.
Yeah, I don't I don't play itall the time.
(13:39):
I got it out especially becauseI knew you were going to ask me
to play a little bit.
I just got it out againyesterday, and it it is, it's a
dream.
Geoff (13:46):
It's not the one that you take on gigs then?
Art (13:48):
I do take it on some gigs, yeah.
It's gotta be it's gotta beused.
You can't.
Of course it does.
It's been it's fed up the bigin a glass case for 15 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Geoff (13:55):
So you say Ronnie was was a hero.
Did you play alongside Ronnieat all?
Art (13:59):
Towards the end of his life, I did a few deps for him,
which was you know quite anhonour.
But I I would go to the cluband listen to him, and I know
it's not a contest, but he washe was my favourite by a country
mile, actually.
Geoff (14:10):
And what about Tubby?
Did you did you?
Art (14:11):
I love yeah, I love Tubby.
It was the medical bit, I'mafraid.
I worked at St.
Mary's Hospital and Tubby camein with heart problems.
I just said hello, that wasall.
But I I did know him.
And one of the saddest thingsthat I remember at the club
shortly before he died, it washis big band and Stan Robinson,
who is a fellow Mancunian.
Stan was playing Tubby's partsin the big band in Ronnie's, and
(14:32):
Tubby was sitting therewatching, and it was one of the
saddest things I've seen.
Geoff (14:36):
So, how long have you been retired from?
Art (14:38):
It's actually nearly 20 years now, 2007.
Geoff (14:41):
Right.
And has your relationship withmusic changed since then?
Art (14:44):
Doing a few more gigs, actually, I suppose.
Yeah, I can concentrate on it abit more and practice a bit
more.
And you know, I I like thevariation, that's the thing.
I'm yeah, yeah, I'm not a bandleader or a very reluctant
occasional band leader.
Yeah, but I like the variation.
Geoff (14:59):
Do you practice a lot?
Art (15:00):
I try and practice an hour a day.
Geoff (15:02):
Do you what do you practice?
Technical things or tunes orwhat?
Art (15:05):
Tunes, technical things.
Um incidentally, if anyone'slistening, Geoff Gascoyne is a
hero because he has thiswonderful play-along thing which
I , I recommend to all of you.
I've only just started itbecause he only just downloaded
it for me, but but um it is tentimes better than any other
product of a similar nature onthe market.
And I'm, you know, Geoff is notprodding me to say this, but it
(15:28):
is absolutely wonderful.
Because you know, both Geoffand I, when we were learning,
um, unfortunately, because I'm alot older than Geoff, um, that
these things weren't available,so I had to do you know, do it
from scratch as it was.
Geoff (15:39):
So you started before the Jamey Aebersold, you know.
I remember using them so much,that was a big thing for me.
That was which is kind of why Iwanted to create these apps,
you know, because this is the itis absolutely wonderful.
I mean, what I tend to do, ifI'm a bit bored or something and
I can't think of what topractice, I'll just pick
something at random.
Yeah, so I mean, obviously youyou can use it to to learn
tunes, you know, or practicetunes that you're gonna play at
(16:01):
a gig or something, but it'salso a great way of just passing
the time, you know.
Art (16:06):
It's like I I've heard people sort of diss play-alongs,
and I'd for me it was the onlything I could do because I okay,
I was quite busy.
It wasn't 9 to 5, it was kindof 7:30 a.m.
till 6.30 p.m.
sometimes.
And I come home a bitphysically tired, but I plug
myself into an Aebersold and youknow, I'd play for an hour.
Uh you know, I thinkplay-alongs are a very good way
(16:28):
of concentrating the mind.
Geoff (16:29):
I totally agree.
So I asked you to pick a tuneto play today.
Art (16:40):
Okay, well, my favourite of all the tenor players, I would
say that Dex was the mostinfluential.
Geoff (16:45):
Okay.
Art (16:46):
So uh I loved his contrafact on It Could Happen to
You.
Geoff (16:49):
So we're gonna play It Could Happen to You
Art (16:50):
Is that, Is that okay?
Geoff (16:51):
Yeah.
So what you're gonna hear is aneight-bar introduction, yeah,
and then there'll be twochoruses.
The first chorus will be intwo, and the second chorus will
be, the bass will go into four.
Um
Art (17:01):
I'm just making sure this is working.
Yeah, close enough for jazz.
Geoff (18:59):
That was awesome.
I love your quotes in there.
Well, there's nothing wrongwith a little bit of humour in
jazz.
Art (19:04):
Humour, I think it's it's critical actually.
I think jazz can be a bit toopo-faced.
Well, there are some masters atthat at it, like uh Jim.
Geoff (19:13):
Jim.
Yeah.
I was gonna say, I I wasspeaking to him a couple of
weeks ago and he said exactlythe same thing.
Art (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think the Miles did alot of harm by turning his back
on the audience and being, youknow.
Geoff (19:24):
Takes the entertainment out of it, doesn't it?
Art (19:26):
It is entertainment.
You know, you don't have towear a fancy waistcoat and a
bowler hat, but sorry, Acker.
Yeah, it it brings the audiencein, but it's it's also part of
what you've taken in over theyears.
We're tunesmiths, and why whynot use a little bit of the tune
that you've heard?
Geoff (19:42):
So I'm gonna ask you some questions if that's alright.
The same questions toeverybody.
Starting off with what's yourfavourite album?
Art (19:48):
It is Dexter Gordon, actually.
It's Go.
Um, Bebop, piano, bass drums,saxophone.
I never actually met him, but II heard him a few times.
And it he was the bridge.
I know I know that Parkerreinvented jazz, but the older
saxophonists they they didn't dowhat Dexter did.
The other older tenor players,Dexter just, he assimilated what
had gone before and heassimilated Parker and then
(20:10):
handed the keys of the kingdomon to Rollins, who Rollins was
another great favourite.
You know, he looks the part aswell.
It's the package, you know,it's this the long, tall Dexter
package.
He's the archite I'm you I'moverusing that word, archetypal
sort of jazz musician.
Right.
I'm but I did meet Rollins.
Rollins is you know, Rollinswas lovely.
As I say, I heard heardColtrane very early on, and I
(20:31):
didn't, I didn't, it didn'tactually grab me.
You know, I didn't quiteunderstand it.
Maybe if I hadn't been so old,I would have pr prosen, chosen
someone a little bit moremodern.
But yeah, with with GeorgeLewis in mind and Chris Potter
at the other end, you've got toyou've got to be somewhere, and
it's I think it's Dexter, justslightly towards the the
beginning.
Geoff (20:51):
Excellent, excellent.
Um, is there a favouritemusician, alive or dead, that
you would have liked to haveplayed with?
Art (20:58):
I think that's got to be Rollins, actually.
I'm sorry to be a bit boringand tenor saxophone orientated.
There's a there's a sort of Idon't mean it's an immodest
Rollins anecdote, but he playedwith Stan at uh Stan Tracy a
lot, that's who I was with fornearly 20 years.
So Rollins admired Stan.
Don't do you not know how goodthis guy is?
I think was was Stan's thequote about Stan.
(21:19):
And uh I met Rollins in Bombaywith Stan's quartet.
And then I think two years orthree years later, I went to
hear him at the Queen ElizabethHall.
And as Art out had his dressingroom door, he opened the door
and he actually said, Hello Art.
Now that's not a mere measureof how famous I am or anything
like that.
It's a measure of how he sortof seemed to have this approach
(21:44):
to life in general and picked upon people who were important in
his life, like Stan, and thenprojected it onto his one of his
side men is here, Art.
I'd you know, nearly , heartnearly stopped.
Geoff (21:55):
Wow, that's a big career moment, isn't it, when someone
like that remembers your name.
So my next question is whatwould you say was the highlight
of your career?
Art (22:03):
Oh, it's yeah, that's very tricky, isn't it?
We did the Chicago JazzFestival , quite a few.
With Stan?
Yeah, yeah, with Stan.
Dare I mention Hyde Park withJack Bruce?
It was sort of
Geoff (22:13):
Absolutely.
Drop as many names as you want.
That is what we want.
Art (22:16):
Yeah, Jack Bruce, he was very, very kind to me.
I only did, I don't know, about10 gigs, I think.
Right.
One of the things I rememberabout it, Ginger was in it, of
course.
It it was it was really sort ofpowerful music.
It was it was one step furtherthat than than the uh Alexis
Korner Blues Band.
It elevated a little bit andsort of uh left the ground.
Geoff (22:37):
Very rocky, I guess, right?
Art (22:39):
Yeah, very rocky.
I think it was a little bitfree form, but then I dabbled a
little bit in free form withwith one of Stan's many bands.
Geoff (22:46):
What you'll find as you go through Quartet, there's two
tracks which are freeimprovisation.
Art (22:51):
You've covered the whole thing.
Geoff (22:53):
Yeah, so this was my idea for Quartet three and four.
I wanted to try out somethingbecause obviously it's all on a
click, but yeah, what you willhear is us improvising, and
Steve Fishwick is on trumpet.
Oh, right, okay.
So there's four there's there'stwo tracks where we just play
one sort of loosely minor andone's loosely major.
See, I want you to see what youthink.
It's uh yeah, okay.
Art (23:11):
It's uh an experiment.
Yeah, no, I love Steve.
He's he's in one of the bandsthat I think he's playing.
Geoff (23:16):
Yeah, I've got a lot of time for free improvisation, I
must I must say, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I often think about jazzaudiences in in general, to be
honest.
I don't know if you think aboutthis, but what are they
hearing?
What is it they're latching onto?
Because we can hear form and wecan hear changes, right?
But non-musicians can't.
What do you think?
What do you think it is thatthey responding to?
Art (23:34):
Sort of tonal variation.
The saxophone does everythingfrom the breathy to very
piercing.
It there must be somethingarresting that draws people in.
I I can't intellectualise it.
That's that's one of theproblems.
You know, you it's it'sentertainment, and I think that
it is accessible entertainment.
Yeah, but it's not asaccessible as unfortunately rock
music.
So there's the you know, hencethe the rock musician playing
(23:56):
three chords to a thousandpeople and we playing the
thousand chords to three thirtypeople.
Geoff (24:00):
That's a good joke, yeah.
Following on from the samequestion, do you have a
favourite recorded moment ofyourself?
Something that you you'verecorded that you're most proud
of?
Art (24:08):
Now, this sounds falsely modest, and I don't mean it.
I can't listen to anything Iplay.
I'd there nothing at all.
Yeah, well, hardly at all.
There are one or one or two ofthe quite a few recordings that
I've done that are still intheir cellophane cellophane
packages.
If pressed, I would probablysay when yeah, after Stan died
and after Ronnie died, I had aquartet with John Critch and we
(24:31):
did a Cedar Walton tune.
Um the name escapes me there,yeah.
Geoff (24:42):
I'll look that up when I get home.
Okay.
My next question is what wasthe last concert you attended?
Art (24:47):
Oh, that's a good one.
Um yesterday I went to hearAdrian Cox, who is a clarinet
player.
You know, cut him in half.
You would see rather like astick of Blackpool rock, you
wouldn't see Blackpool, you'dsee New Orleans.
Geoff (25:00):
Right.
Art (25:00):
And it was with a trio, it was locally, you know, just up
the up in the Chilterns.
And he's tremendous.
Again, I said about Dexterbeing the full package.
He's the full package, emotion,ability to communicate with the
audience, variability.
You might think just NewOrleans, oh blamey, you've just
New Orleans.
It was wonderful.
Entertaining.
Yeah, entertaining, yeah.
(25:21):
So that was that was yesterday.
Fantastic.
He he sang as well.
He had the audience spellboundjust with a piano accompaniment
singing, Nobody Knows theTrouble I've Seen that.
You know, and it's this is notI mean, we are ostensibly modern
jazz musicians, but you know,that's what I heard yesterday.
Geoff (25:38):
Fabulous, yeah.
What would you say was yourmusical weakness?
Art (25:42):
Never having been to music school.
I know it makes a bigdifference, and mine was a
compromise.
I said earlier that I was nevergoing to be able to compose.
I can read a bit, but I'm
Geoff (25:52):
So you've never composed any music?
No.
You're not alone.
I mean that's um
Art (25:55):
But I, I did actually I tried when I was starting off in
medicine, you could do thefirst three years, which is
without patients, and then youcould you could do the first
three years in two years, andthen I applied to do the third
year doing music.
I know it wouldn't have beenjazz because it would have been
Bach and nothing wrong withBach, but it would have been
classical music.
But nevertheless, it I wouldhave been able to read and
(26:16):
transpose better and understandharmony.
But they said, Art, you got thethird in your first year, okay.
You upped it, you're up, yougot a second in your second
year, but you're not cleverenough to do it.
I had to do the three years,and I I regret that, but it's it
was absolutely right.
And I ended up as an orthopedicsurgeon and not a brain
surgeon.
Geoff (26:34):
Well, it's not brain surgery, is it?
That's the joke.
Yeah.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
Art (26:40):
You're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Geoff (26:41):
Um, do you ever get nervous on stage?
Art (26:44):
Not particularly.
Fairfield Hall with Stan yearsago, and I felt a little bit
like, what are we gonna play?
This is typical of the man, hesaid, no idea.
And I think at that stage, whatthe hell?
So not particularly.
Geoff (26:57):
That comes from the freeness, I suppose you were
able to create something fromnothing, aren't you?
Art (27:02):
Yeah, well, he we at that stage it was still fairly
standard, you know, Monkparticularly, but um I think he
had the right approach.
He was nerveless.
And I wouldn't say I wasnervous, but no, I don't break
out into a sweat.
Same with surgery, you know,you everyone thinks that
surgeons have a sort ofattractive nurse mopping their
brow during difficulty.
Not at all.
It's
Geoff (27:22):
Being a surgeon, is is that nerve-wracking at all?
Art (27:25):
No, not at all.
No.
No.
Geoff (27:26):
So what you're you're talking about with a knife and
you're you've got people underyou.
Art (27:30):
No, not at all.
No, it's it's very cut anddried.
Geoff (27:33):
Literally cut.
Oh, sorry, sorry.
That's a good point.
Art (27:36):
I think I think probably, you know, the sort of the sharp
end of surgery.
As I've said earlier, it's youknow,
Geoff (27:41):
Kick me out.
Sorry,it keeps getting worse and worse.
Art (27:43):
You set them up and ask them.
Um the sharp end of surgery,you know, heart surgery and and
you know, I suppose I suppose itis a bit banging in the hip.
G (27:53):
What's the most hairy surgery you've ever performed, then?
Art (27:55):
Um, probably doing general surgery, because you've got to
do a little bit of everything.
And uh okay.
I was at a uh peripheral Londonhospital doing general surgery,
and I was standing on.
I've I've mentioned earlierpeople standing on for you know
the senior registrar who wassenior to me, and I was only a
junior general surgicalregistrar.
(28:16):
Um he asked me on cover forhim, and the emergency came in,
and it was a knife wound, it wasa crime of passion, and it was
a lady who'd stabbed herunfaithful husband and gone
through the abdomen and throughthe diaphragm and through the
liver and up into the heart, andit had sliced the what's called
(28:37):
the pericardium, which is thethe covering of the heart, so
the heart was sort of beatingaway.
And I'd never seen that before.
So I rang up the boss, and theboss happened to be the
president of the Royal Collegeof Surgeons, and I said, You're
Theman here, and he said, Whoare you?
And I said, well, I'm theregistrar, I'm standing on for
(28:58):
Mr.
Such and Such.
Why?
You know, and he sort of it wascholeric.
You could I did over the phone,the phone would have melted,
Salvador Dali-like.
Anyway, he said, you know, Isaid, No, leave the pericordium,
boy! And I sort of left thepericordium so that yeah, the
patient survived actually, butthat was the hair, that was the
hairiest moment.
Geoff (29:15):
Right.
That was.
God, you get your hands insidesomeone else, can't you?
Yeah.
So were you, were you eversqueamish or anything?
I don't suppose it's for the.
Art (29:22):
Yeah, a bit squeamish.
I don't like insects, and youhave to do zoology.
So the worst bit, I think theworst bit of everything was
dissecting a cockroach.
It sort of cured me a littlebit, but not much.
Geoff (29:34):
Right, I've got a few more questions.
Okay.
What's your favourite sandwich?
Art (29:38):
Uh, I'm put in mind of the lovely Don Weller.
You know, he was a man of fewwords, but if there was a
silence in a conversation, he'dmake conversation by saying, I
had a cheese sandwich once.
No, I'm afraid.
So that's what that's whatcomes to mind.
But I've probably no, I thinkI'll go for when when Elizabeth
was crowned queen, thecoronation, the coronation.
(29:59):
Chicken, I think, was
Geoff (30:01):
I love Coronation Chicken too, yeah.
Art (30:03):
Yeah, so there we are.
Don Weller was the one who, when you went to China
Yeah, that's right.
You tell the story.
No, go on.
No, you tell the story.
Well, okay, we're we're inChina with Stan's octet,
actually.
And uh it was decided to go andsee uh see the Great Wall of
China.
I think forget we're in Pekingor something.
So we're all assembled, youknow, seven of the eight were
(30:25):
assembled, and Don was still inbed.
So we decided so you know, Don,come on, the the transport's
ready.
You know, we're gonna come,we're gonna see the we're gonna
see the Great Wall.
He says, I've got a wall of myown at home.
I love that.
And he didn't go.
He didn't go.
No, he didn't go.
I've got a wall of my own athome.
Geoff (30:46):
I mean, fair enough, you know.
I went to to Tokyo actually acouple of years ago with a band,
and and uh Robin Aspland was inthe band.
Yeah.
And uh we were only there forlike four days.
He didn't come out of his hotelroom.
I don't think he he evenchanged time zones, he just
stayed up all night and sleptall day, you know.
Art (31:03):
Yeah, yeah.
I've heard that happen.
Geoff (31:06):
Right.
What's your favourite movie?
Art (31:08):
Actually, I've just seen the play, which has been it's
it's been backwards andforwards, it's such a successful
play.
But it's got to be Mel Brooks,The Producers.
It's gotta be.
Yeah, because you know okay,that's fresh in my mind because
there's a there's a there's asort of adaptation in the in the
West End right now, but youcan't beat Zero Mostel and I
can't remember the the the otherguy, but yeah, it's yeah.
Geoff (31:32):
I mean the new the new version, do they still have
Springtime for Hitler?
Art (31:35):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I read the crit before before Iwent, and he said it was almost
almost too much, yeah.
That sort of um sort of gayaspect as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but it was it was it wasvery good production, but the
the the the the film I know it'stotally outrageous and you
probably
Geoff (31:52):
No, it's a classic.
Art (31:53):
Yeah, but it is a classic.
Geoff (31:54):
Um is there a favourite venue you like to play in?
Art (31:58):
I suppose because I've done it most of my life, but less so
now because they're lessinterested in jazz.
Is I play at the Bull's Head,Barnes, which is uh yeah, we did
we did a gig recently threeweeks ago, and uh you know I I
did it probably once a month forI don't know 40-50 years.
(32:20):
It's it's less frequent now,but you know it's
Geoff (32:23):
But it was a lovely crowd when we played, didn't we?
Was it a Saturday night weplayed?
Art (32:27):
It was a Friday night.
Friday night, yeah.
Yeah, it was because your namewas up in the in the coming off
the piano.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was a great rhythmsection, Sebastian de Krom and
uh um Liam Dunachie on piano.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um I like this, I love The Six.
Yeah, I'm there on Sunday.
Geoff (32:42):
Lovely.
Do you have a favourite placein the world, a favourite
country, or a favourite city?
Art (32:47):
I'm a bit of a francophile.
It's almost a cliche to say Ilove I love the south, I love
the mountains.
Um France is, you know, it'sgot the food and it's got it's
got the sea and it's got themountains, and it's big and it's
got the French people.
Yeah, I'd say Nice, actually,and Nice is a good stuff.
Nice, yeah, very nice.
Geoff (33:07):
So I've got one last question, um, and it is what's
your favourite chord?
Art (33:12):
Right.
I I don't have perfect pitch.
I you know, I I think I thinkthat the people who do have
perfect pitch sometimes say it'snot a good thing to have.
But if I'm listening tosomething, I don't know I won't
know what key it's in.
So I'll put it in C.
I'll put it in C on thesaxophone, actually.
Geoff (33:29):
Yeah.
Art (33:29):
So I think I'm probably saying B major seventh, B flat
major seventh in concert.
But I think you know what Imean is C major seventh on the
saxophone.
Geoff (33:40):
Yeah.
Art (33:40):
Because if I hear something, because I'm not a
complete musician, I would putit into C on the saxophone.
Geoff (33:46):
Okay.
Yeah, I do a similar thingactually.
When I listen into the, I don'thave perfect pitch either, but
I'll listen to a thing and thenand I can hear where it's going,
one, four, three, six, yeah,yeah, that's right.
One or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would do the same thing.
So I'll imagine one is C, sofour is four is F.
Art (34:01):
Yeah.
Geoff (34:01):
Three is three is E minor, two, you know, A minor.
Art (34:03):
Yeah, that's a good good question.
You know, I I hope I'd answerthat correctly.
Geoff (34:06):
No, no, it's a lovely, lovely thing, yeah.
Do you ever use licks oranything like that when you
play?
Art (34:11):
I suppose so.
I think we all do.
I think we yeah, definitely.
Yeah, yeah.
You you do because it's it'slike a quote.
Yeah.
Yeah, oh yeah, I don't yeah, Iwouldn't diss anybody who plays
in moderate everything inmoderation.
Yeah, you know, you mustn'trepeat yourself.
I'm I did a gig at BirminghamFestival, and I remember playing
a tune, and then the secondtune, I ended up playing the
(34:34):
same tune.
You know, that was years ago,and I thought, Christ, I'm you
know, I'm I'm getting the big A,you know, alzheimer's.
Um, I haven't done it since.
But you know, you mustn'trepeat yourself, consciously.
It's gotta be, you've got tochange.
Geoff (34:45):
You've got to keep fresh, haven't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also, but by playing newtunes, it makes you play
different things that you've notplayed before, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Uh and now you've got 600 tuneson your Quartet apps.
Art (34:55):
I'm most grateful for that.
And you know, if anybody'slistening, you but you buy this
buy this set of tunes,everybody.
Buy it, yeah.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Geoff (35:03):
Art, thank you so much for your time.
It's been great.
Art (35:06):
No, thank you for making it just as easy.
I was I was at a bit of Iyou've asked me if I was
worried.
I was a bit worried about thisbecause I'm less articulate than
I used to be now.
Geoff (35:16):
You'd be surprised.
No, you'd be it's been amazing,actually.
It'd been really great.
I hope my questions have beenokay.
Art (35:22):
Your questions are perfect, yeah.
Geoff (35:23):
Yes.
It's been a joy, absolute joy,yeah.
Art (35:25):
I think we should have some tea and cake now.
I think tea and cake, yes.
Geoff (35:28):
Yeah, we got some homemade cake.
All right.
Thanks again.
Art (35:30):
Yeah.
Okay, thank you, Geoff.
Announcement (35:33):
Thank you for making it to the end of another
podcast.
Please subscribe if you want tohear more of them as they land.
The Quartet Jazz StandardsPodcast is a UK Music Apps
production.
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