September 16, 2024 • 54 mins
RAH #2: Interview with the 2023 Children's Bookseller of the Year, Rachel Robson
What's in this episode?
· What is involved in being the children's book buyer for an independent bookshop
· How to access out-of-print books
· How to continue reading aloud when your kids are teens and tweens
· Book clubs for teenagers
· Supporting independent book shops without "breaking the bank"
· An inspiring list of book recommendations
Books and humans mentioned:
· Meet the Lithographer (2023) by Gabby Bazin
· Shirley Hughes (author)
· David McKee (author)
· Frindle (1998) by Andrew Clements, illustrated by Brian Selznic
· The Invention of Hugo Cabret (2007) by Brian Selznic
· A poem for every day of the year (2017) by Allie Esiri
· Our Home (2024) by Catherine Meatheringham, illustrated by Max Hamilton
· Julia Donaldson (author)
· Would You Rather? (1994) By John Burningham
· Bamboozled (1994) By David Legge
· The Jill Barklem series (Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter Story)
· Jeannie Baker (author)
· Dr Seuss (author)
· Roald Dahl (author)
· Zaza's Baby Brother (2012) By Lucy Cousins
· Need a House Call Ms Mouse (2022) By George Mendoza, illustrated by Doris Susan Smith
· Alfie's Feet (2009) By Shirley Hughes
· Alfie Gets in First (2009) By Shirley Hughes
· Goodnight Moon (1947) By Margaret Wise Brown
· Where is the Green Sheep? (2004) by Mem Fox and Judy Horacek
· Each, Peach, Pear Plum (1978) By Janet and Allan Ahlberg
· The Noisy Book By Soledad Bravi
· Monkey and Me By Emily Gravett
· The Peekaboo Series By Grace Habib
· You Choose (2003) By Pippa Goodhart
· When Frank was Four (2006) by Alison Lester
· Rose Meets Mr. Wintergarten (1992) By Bob Graham
· Dinosaur in my Pocket (2024) By Ashleigh Barton, Illustrated by Blithe Fielden
· Listen Hippo (2024) By Gabriel Evans
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This week on the Read Aloud Home I visited Rachel Robson at her home in Sydney's inner
(00:06):
west. Rachel is the 2023 Book People Hardy Grant Children's Book Seller of the Year.
She's been working in children's book selling for 20 years and currently works at Glee Books in Sydney.
Anyone who has been into Glee Books to a children's book event or to ask for help choosing a book will know how passionate Rachel is about children's literature.
In this conversation Rachel and I talk about the children's book industry. We also talk about what makes independent bookshops different, how to keep reading with older children and what to do if you find that a book you want is out of print.
(00:38):
Hello, my name is Laura Cunningham and this is the Read Aloud Home. This podcast is all about how we can enjoy reading stories with children and how we can create a read aloud home in a modern world.
The podcast will give you ideas and inspiration for creating the best possible read aloud environment in an age of unprecedented technological distractions.
(01:00):
Yes, I do believe it is possible. Today, the Read Aloud Home is recording on the land of the Gadigal people.
Okay, so welcome Rachel to the Read Aloud Home. It's so great to have you here today.
Pleasure, pleasure.
I remember reading a post on Instagram a few months ago about a book called Meet the Lithographer by Gabby Bazin, which is about the history and process of lithography.
(01:30):
In the post you talked about how you trained as a lithographer but fell into the wonderful world of children's books.
That was 20 years ago.
Can you tell us a little more about how that all happened and how you came to be a children's bookseller?
Okay, how exciting to have a kids book about lithography.
Yeah, I know.
(01:51):
So I got into children's bookselling and the wonderful world of children's books.
The scenic route. I grew up in Far North Queensland and we didn't have a bookshop but we had a beautiful library that had a wonderful mural of the Daintree in the kids section.
(02:12):
So whenever you were reading books or spending time in there it felt like you were in the middle of the Daintree rainforest.
So I never grew out of kids books and spent all my teen years in the Daintree rainforest.
In the Swell Library reading books.
So I particularly never grew out of the artwork that is in picture books and went on to study fine art at university where I discovered the absolute joy of drawing onto large slabs of limestone, which is how you do a lithograph.
(02:52):
And I ended up working in a print studio where we used to print for lots of well-known artists.
So we would help a lot of the Archibald winners and some strange folk like Chopper Reed came and did some prints and Mr. Squiggle.
(03:14):
We did a lot of stuff with Reg Mon Basel.
And so my plan was to then go and work in lots of print studios doing the same thing around the world.
So I ended up doing some residencies through Europe and then ended up in Newcastle upon Tyne in England where they had a wonderful print studio.
(03:35):
But they also had a magnificent children's book museum called Seven Stories.
And it was in an old flour mill and it had seven stories in the flour mill based on the seven major plot lines in stories.
So we had two levels that were galleries and they housed some of the original illustrations from Shirley Hughes.
(04:04):
Yes, of course.
And David McKee and so many wonderful, wonderful British illustrators.
And then there was an attic space where we would act out the stories and a craft space where we would make beautiful artwork based on the illustrations that we saw in the galleries.
(04:25):
Dreamy.
It was so wonderful.
And so I worked in the museum side of things for a couple of years, but then a job became available in the bookshop.
And I realised after kids were coming back and saying they loved my recommendation and sharing books with kids of all ages, I realised this as much as I love lithography, I had found my jam.
(04:53):
So great.
And you were the 2023 children's bookseller of the year.
I am very excited.
So you still are, aren't you?
Because it goes, it happens again in the middle of.
So they announced the new children's bookseller in June.
In June.
But it's very exciting that there is an award that acknowledges and celebrates children's bookselling as a career choice.
(05:19):
Yeah.
I said it's a wonderful place to be.
It's such a good place to be.
Did you, how did that come about you being the 2023 bookseller of the year?
Children's bookseller of the year.
So you're nominated by peers.
Yeah.
And in other industry professionals.
(05:40):
And then chosen.
So a shortlist is announced and then it's chosen by a panel of industry professionals.
And then there is a big conference that celebrates bookselling once a year.
And.
And that was announced and I danced and leapt across the stage and they didn't know what hit them.
(06:04):
And I made a very passionate speech about children's booksellers being the most important people in the bookshop because.
We are the ones that spark that love.
And joy of reading, which will make lifelong readers.
Yes, absolutely.
Each time I have a guest on the podcast, I ask them to read to us a piece of their favourite children's literature.
(06:27):
I'm sure this is going to be very hard for you to decide.
It was very difficult.
And I had a really great conversation with my kids about this because.
There's, I have so many books that are my favourite books.
Some I reread.
There's a whole host of books that.
(06:50):
That I've read at different stages of my life and got something different out of.
But we also talked about my kids are now 10 and 13 and we still read aloud.
That's so good.
Yeah, there's it's such a joyful thing to read together.
Yeah, especially with kids of different ages.
(07:13):
And so we spoke at length about some of the books that we have read together.
And being a podcast that celebrates reading aloud.
We all decided that Frindle was something that we'd love to share.
So this is a joint effort.
I love that.
Patrick and Rose.
Oh, that's great.
And this we loved.
Actually, this is a book that I read independently.
(07:38):
And the second I finished reading it, I was like, I have to read this aloud with my kids.
And I've never read a book back to back before.
Yeah.
So the second I finished that last page, I rounded the kids up and I read it straight away.
And we read it together and loved it.
So the book I'm choosing is called Frindle.
(07:59):
Yep.
Which is by Andrew Clement.
I also love it because it has beautiful illustrations by Brian Zelsnick, who illustrated Hugo Cabray,
which is my favorite book of all time.
But Frindle is a middle grade book.
It's a short book, but it's a great book that you can share with a class or if you've got multiple ages at home.
(08:29):
The kids in the story, I think from memory about year five or six.
Yeah.
And they've been looking at the origin of words in class with their teacher.
I also love this book because it celebrates wonderful work that teachers do.
And the main character, Nick, is really excited about how books end up in the dictionary.
(08:54):
So he takes it upon himself to change the word pen to Frindle and try and convince initially just his class to no longer call a pen a Frindle.
So do you want me to read?
Yeah, please.
I'll read you a short chapter.
Chapter seven, Word Wars.
(09:16):
School was the perfect place to launch a new word.
And since this was a major historical event, Nick wanted it to begin in exactly the right class.
Seventh period language arts.
Nick raised his hand first thing after the bell and said, Mrs. Granger, I forgot my Frindle.
(09:38):
Sitting three rows away, John blurted out, Oh, I have an extra one you can borrow Nick.
Then John made a big show of looking for something in his backpack.
Oh, yeah, I think I've got an extra Frindle.
I mean, I told my mom to get me three or four.
I'm sure I had an extra Frindle in here yesterday, but I must have taken it.
Oh, wait.
(09:59):
Oh, yeah, here it is.
And then John made a big show of throwing it over to Nick.
And then Nick missed it on purpose.
Then he made a big show of finding it.
Mrs. Granger and every kid in the class got the message loud and clear.
That black plastic thing that Nick borrowed from John had a funny name, a different name, a new name.
(10:27):
It was a Frindle.
So do you have kids call a pen a Frindle?
We did. We did have a bit of a spate of calling pens Frindles.
But yeah, it's such a joyful book to read aloud.
And a really interesting look at how words get into the dictionary and how kids, I think, kids can change the world as well.
(10:54):
Like, yeah, because kids have a voice.
Yeah.
Now, that's so I don't want to give out any spoiler alert.
No, it's got a cracking end.
Okay.
I'm going to get it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As soon as I saw the word Frindle, I was like, that's right.
That's one of those books that I need to have on my radar.
(11:15):
Now that you've shared with us that you read still read aloud with your children.
Yes.
Can you share with us how does that come about in your house when your kids are 10 and 13?
It's easy when they're little, obviously.
But how do you make it happen?
Well, they shared a room up until quite recently.
So it was much easier then.
And now that Patrick's in high school, what we started doing, because I noticed how tired he was.
(11:44):
Yeah.
So we started, I'm quite late to the party with the whole poetry extravaganza.
So we started, I found a gorgeous book called A Poem a Day.
Yes.
So we would just do one poem a day and it gave you a little bit of info about the poet.
(12:06):
Sometimes it was a song, but it was still reading aloud.
So it was just trying to find pockets of time.
We would do that at night, but our reading has changed in the house, having a high school child.
So we do tend to read as a family either after school.
(12:33):
We've changed our reading habits.
So instead of reading at night, we will have two afternoons after school a week where I will maybe get some tasty treats.
So associate it with something fabulous.
Yeah, because yeah, my son would probably rather be on his phone or, so it is competing with technology.
(12:58):
We all read together and eat biscuits and, or we will read together at night.
And it was really lovely the other night.
We were reading together, separate books, but all reading together.
And Patty was so obsessed with whatever he was reading that I let him read till midnight.
(13:21):
It's got to be done.
So I'm pretty loose around the rules of bedtime anyway.
Yeah.
But I just found reading at night, especially, yeah, my older child was not engaging as much.
So we tend to read at different times of day.
So when they were little, you would probably do the classic reading aloud before bedtime.
(13:43):
Yeah, but we have always read.
There's no, this is reading time.
I've always taken books with me.
We didn't have a car, so we were quite often on public transport.
But I always, books have always been carried around with us and still do for doctor's appointments.
Because if you've got that option of reading a book or actually, I think I saw you do the same thing.
(14:09):
It's yeah.
Yes.
I said that on my Instagram the other day, didn't I?
Yeah.
That's exactly what we did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I said on my Instagram that it's, you know, screen time is essentially Nutella.
Yeah.
And books are peanut butter.
Yes.
And peanut butter is fine if Nutella is not sitting next to it on the table.
(14:30):
Yes, that's true.
You nailed that one.
But when Nutella and peanut butter sit next to each other, who isn't going to choose Nutella?
I mean, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of Nutella, but my children would definitely choose Nutella.
So just taking the devices away as an option gives books so much more possibility.
Yeah.
And we have books everywhere in the house.
(14:51):
We have books in the toilet.
Yes, I've noticed.
I'm here in Rachel's house and there are books everywhere.
Books.
Yeah, we have a book featured on the kitchen bench.
So if they're sitting there with me, they can flick through something.
But reading.
And even if we don't have a reading aloud, this is our reading aloud time.
(15:15):
But I quite often still read snippets of books aloud to both kids.
And then they end up engaging with that and then reading that themselves.
So read recipes, read.
Yeah.
Read newspaper articles.
Read everything.
(15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's no this is the right time to read.
Just make it fun.
Yeah, I think that's so important.
And I also used to be a lot more organized and neat in my house.
And then I realized that if I want them to read, yes, the books just need to be available.
(15:57):
You know, they're on the couch, they're on the kitchen table, they're in their bedrooms, in our bedroom, because then they'll pick one up.
Yes.
As opposed to if they're all packed away neatly.
They're not always when they're little, I feel like going to go and seek them out as much.
Yeah.
Some kids will, but I feel like it's just that such an opportunity when they're just around.
Yes, absolutely.
(16:18):
And don't ever get rid of your picture books, because I found as my kids get older, like I never actually grew out of picture books.
I was still buying them in my teens.
I just they're such beautiful little works of art.
And what I've noticed is as the kids get older and school is more demanding and homework and after school activities, they are tired.
(16:49):
And so twice a week, both my kids take a either ask me to choose three book picture books or they choose three picture books themselves.
I've still we've still got picture books all throughout the house in every room.
And they go to bed and read them with an older head on.
(17:10):
And yeah, it's it's wonderful to see a 13 year old boy still getting that comfort and pleasure from from a picture book that he read when he was three.
Yeah.
So it's they're not dumbed down.
They're they're yeah, they're beautiful.
(17:31):
Yeah, I've actually read that in some ways picture books, because they have so much less space for words, the choice of words is so has to be in a good picture book.
The choice of words has to be perfect.
Yeah, you have no room for error.
So they are just such high quality pieces of literature in a sense.
But also the illustration.
(17:52):
Yeah, such a big fan of visual storytelling.
Yeah.
The next question was going to be what makes a good picture book.
Okay, so I have always been drawn to illustration.
So that is the reason I picked the book up in the first place.
And I'm also a sucker for especially for reading aloud for younger kids.
(18:17):
A bit of rhyme and rhythm.
Yeah, I love that almost sing song where it's it's it's an absolute joy to read aloud.
It is interesting because I do story time at the bookshop.
Finding choosing books to read to a group is very different to reading one on one.
Yeah.
With someone.
(18:38):
So in terms of what makes a good picture book, it for reading, you know, one on one or with a small group, I really love something that that you can interact with.
You can make it your own story.
Yeah.
And we were just talking about there's a new book called Our Home by Katherine Mead Meaderingham and Max Hamilton.
(19:02):
And it just reminded me, it made me kind of miss that reading with small children at home because there was so much to look at in the pictures.
And it focuses on the sounds of homes and landscapes all around Australia and there's little threads that run throughout the story that kids will love to look for in, you know, in the pitches.
(19:30):
And yeah, I just think it needs to be something that you will enjoy reading because the more you enjoy it, the kids that is infectious.
Totally.
But I am a sucker for a beautifully illustrated and I've been collecting books long before I had kids.
So it was interesting.
Some of the books that I bought that were beautifully illustrated that maybe didn't work.
(19:56):
The kids didn't love the story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I found that as well.
I find that's a huge one.
And actually I had my oldest one.
He's very happy to listen to anything really.
But the my younger one, he went through it went to his gateway.
Author was definitely Julia Donaldson.
Yes.
So much.
(20:17):
There's action as well as that real rollicking.
Yeah.
Rhythm rhyme.
Yeah.
Well, she writes them all as a song initially.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That really got him over the line.
He was like, oh yeah, I can do this.
Whereas a sort of more slow paced he was not it's not four years more now, but as a three really busy three year old.
(20:39):
And then the other thing I was going to say was I spoke to Brumman at roaring roaring stories and she was telling me she used to be a preschool teacher.
Yeah.
That yeah.
What you said exactly that some books really don't work for reading aloud to a classroom as opposed to reading with just one or two kids at home.
And yeah, she got quite good at working out which ones would work.
(21:01):
I think if you're reading to a large group, they do want that interactive.
They want space.
Yeah.
To be included in the story.
Yeah.
They don't want to sit there and be spoken at.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, actually, we've been asked to come and read to my older son's class.
So that's six to nine year olds.
(21:23):
And I keep asking like, Oh, what did the parent this week read?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, Oh, do I think that would work or not?
The kids are pretty open to being read to.
But I was like, what would I read?
And I actually thought I'd read one that you introduced me to.
John Burnett Birmingham.
Would you would you rather?
Yeah, that's my favorite.
And they would love that.
(21:44):
Yeah, because it would just be so silly.
Yeah.
In the classroom environment.
They're involved.
Yeah.
And they know that all have an opinion.
Yeah.
And they know that the story time can potentially go for three hours.
Yeah.
But then I thought about that.
I don't know how the teachers will feel.
No, that's the perfect.
Do you think so?
Absolutely.
And on the one I thought I could do, because you can do one or two would be bamboozle.
(22:06):
Have you ever heard that?
Yes.
That's my favorite.
Yeah.
I just thought that age group six to nine, they would just love that sort of interactive
having to have a think a little bit of a think themselves and, you know, finding the unusual
bamboozle by David Lynch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, I've been I've been I've been thinking a lot about, yeah, reading aloud picture books
(22:28):
to a group.
But also what I found with doing author events, even with presenters with illustrators or authors,
as well as reading aloud to a class, not everyone likes aloud story time either.
Yeah.
And I think the tricky thing is, is knowing who you're reading to.
(22:51):
Because I've done a lot of reading in schools as well.
Oh, have you?
I I loved my kids teachers so much that I kept volunteering in their classes to the point
where it was almost a full time job.
That's so good.
But I yeah, just and I think the more I realized that we were moving away from reading for
pleasure at school.
(23:13):
I felt it really important to to keep volunteering and doing that and finding that joy in in
reading a book together rather than analyzing it to the point of no one ever wants to see
that book ever again.
Yeah.
Because reading for pleasure is what is going to drive kids and adults.
(23:38):
I think we've we've also lost that reading for pleasure is what is going to drive us
to be long term readers.
Yeah.
Rather than I think school has just become so full.
Yeah.
And everything has to be a learning experience that we've forgotten the joy and fun of choosing
(24:01):
a book that you want to read rather than a book that you have to read or you have to
analyze it to the point.
Yeah.
But you don't ever want to see it again.
That is my experience from so many of the books that I read at high school.
I would never look at them again.
But also what you said before about I mean reading for pleasure.
(24:22):
I did listen to an interview with someone else who does a lot of podcasts on reading
aloud and she sort of talked about how we don't go to our book clubs as adults and get
quizzed on.
Yeah, exactly.
These random details in the book.
Ridiculous.
You go and someone offers you a you know a Riesling.
Yeah.
A piece of cheese and cracker and you sit around and you talk about the book in such
(24:47):
an enjoyable way.
And why can't why do we expect to like why did why can't children do that as well a bit
more.
Why does it have to always be over analysis.
I mean I'm not a teacher but I feel like you can get a lot out of a book without having
to remember some random date or someone's age in it.
Yeah, there's not really.
(25:08):
Yeah, personally.
Yeah.
So if we want teenagers to read for pleasure how where does that all begin as someone with
teenage a teenager now and a tween I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How does how do you set that habit up.
Book clubs are wonderful.
(25:30):
Yeah.
I mean I did run book clubs at the shop but I also ran them at the school.
Yeah.
Okay.
At lunchtime and I popcorn was the segue in and some of the kids came purely for the
popcorn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then we would talk about about the books and it didn't matter if you didn't read them
(25:54):
or we would talk about things that happened in the story and relate it back to what's
happening in their life.
Yeah.
And it kind of then they started reading the books and getting more involved.
Yeah.
So we even had a few romances in the teen book club where they were hooking up with
(26:15):
each other.
That could be one way of.
But just again it totally comes down for reading for pleasure like we do lose them a bit.
Yeah.
And providing an environment where it's social and peer inspired book choosing as well.
I've noticed.
(26:36):
Yeah.
My son is not totally open to his middle aged mom coming home with a this is a great book.
If his friends recommend it he's more likely to read it.
So being surrounded by that where there's a bunch of them reading for pleasure.
Yeah.
Eating popcorn.
Maybe fancying someone else in the group or.
(26:57):
Perfect.
But yeah just having discussions about things that happen in the book and we're really lucky
living in Sydney in the West.
There's loads of authors and illustrators that live locally so we invite them to come
along.
Yeah cool.
To book club.
So it's a really relaxed setting sitting around eating popcorn with the actual author or
(27:20):
illustrator.
Yeah.
And it's a really nice book.
Yeah.
That's also a really great kids actually meeting the writer.
Yeah.
Is huge in terms of getting them excited about reading.
Yeah.
That's great.
So yeah join your library or your bookshop because there's loads of events.
We've got Sydney Writers Festival coming up where they have YA Saturday and there's loads
(27:47):
of panels and.
Illustrator battle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a big hit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the highlight I think.
But just going to see author events.
It's very inspiring.
(28:11):
Why should grownups care about children's books?
They make us want to be better people.
I think there's so much books.
Children's books are hopeful.
It's they're full of characters flawed characters who find their way.
Yeah.
But there's always hope.
And I think the more widely we read whether we read yeah diverse authors and illustrators
(28:36):
and the kinder adults we become because we're seeing and that I mean that happens for adult
books as well but I think there's there's something really special about reading widely
with kids younger and doing that together.
What are the main changes trends you've seen in the children's book world during both your
(28:59):
time as a mother and working in the industry?
I am slightly concerned about the direction it's been going the last few years because
it has I think I really noticed how sales driven publishing is in the last couple of
years and we're heading very much in that fast fashion celebrity culture.
(29:23):
So looking at selling a load of books quickly and then they disappear.
And I guess our role as booksellers is we're just not buying them anymore.
So we're just not stocking them in the bookshop.
So a lot of it is yeah I think there's too many books being published and it's all about
(29:43):
making a lot of money quickly instead of focusing on beautiful books that are going to be around
forever.
That's what's great about independent booksellers I think is we've got a really important role
to to make sure that doesn't happen because there is that thing of I mean the K-Marts
(30:04):
and the big W's are selling books cheaper than we can't get them from the publisher
for that price which sounds terrible complaining about that because you want books to be accessible
for everyone and it's books are expensive but what that means is the publishers are
(30:24):
wanting to sell lots of those books to the K-Marts and the big W's and that's what's
driving publishing.
Yeah I often say to my kids do you did you ever read with your kids the Jill Buckland
spring story autumn story oh yeah summer story yeah apparently it took her five years to
(30:46):
make each of those books.
I know yes absolutely.
And Jeannie Baker's the same it's five years per book and when you look at the book you
can see that the level of detail and care and it is a concern of mine and it's part
of the reason of starting the podcast that that is going and that people think you can
(31:08):
make a children's book in one day and I actually listened to a podcast where someone said that
explicitly.
Well especially now with AI like we are seeing the demise of beautifully illustrated books
a lot of the covers for us it's obvious that it's been an AI generated image yeah like
losing book design I think they're the forgotten we need to celebrate book designers just as
(31:34):
much as we celebrate the author and the illustrator yeah because it's all the books are starting
to look the same I know it's so true and you know we have so many books that I will never
part with because they they're almost like family yeah support your independent bookstore
(31:54):
because we're the ones that will keep the those beautiful books around forever.
So why do books go out of print?
It is sales driven I'm really noticing that now publishers are really focused on pre-sales
now yeah it's a huge thing isn't it through Amazon and yeah yeah and really encouraging
(32:16):
people to buy the book before it comes out.
Do you know where they do that?
Where it predicts how much they print yeah and publishers aren't printing as much okay
as they used to post-covid I think yeah and there's also you know books that change that
might be problematic there's all this talking about banning books yeah like the Roald Dahl
(32:40):
yeah comes up every few years yes and part of me thinks it's part of the publishing
advertising campaign because what happens is everyone panic buys yeah okay Roald Dahl
books yeah nothing like a brand book that will never go out of print no because it's
sales driven and people still love Roald Dahl yeah there was something about the Dr Zeus
books yes they're stopping some publishing some aren't they yeah and some of them I guess
(33:03):
are problematic they're not banning them they're just they're not selling yeah but there there
have been books that we have absolutely loved over the years that people still ask for all
the time and they're out of print and we hassle the publisher we've just had Zaza's baby brother
(33:24):
by Lucy Cousins oh yes I've got that which has been one of the best books to recommend
for new siblings yes that's a very niche isn't it in a way so it's kind of good because people
want it yeah but it's such a it was our best selling yeah so we just kept hassling the
publisher and I got an email the other day to say hooray guess what's coming back into
(33:46):
print and so you know speak up and tell your local library or bookshop or okay we yeah
we just email the publisher and say we're having there's so much demand for this book
why has it gone out of print so that book also need a house call Miss Mouse do you
(34:07):
remember yes so that's it that's that did something that went out of print for a while yeah because
then I found it over Christmas that they'd done a rerun yes so enough people okay asked
for it so people power okay so this is very exciting Rachel yes I have panic about some
of the books that I treasure going out of print so if you're listening to this people
(34:30):
power call Rachel reader power yes call me she will sort this out for you yeah yeah but
books can come back so they'll stop publishing them if they're not selling but you can if
enough people want them they will consider doing a reprint yeah okay do you think that
the celebrity culture and the sort of make a book in a day culture versus the really
(34:55):
carefully thought out and planned book is because parents just don't really know what
to buy what is a good children's book where does it come from well a lot of those books
are being produced cheaply yeah and they're more accessible what I find most disturbing
(35:15):
is publishers are putting a lot of their advertising and marketing money into into those books
rather than supporting beautiful authors and illustrators who who do it for a living yeah
and quite often the books aren't even written by the celebrity yeah using the celebrity
(35:36):
name but those books are everywhere so you will see them cheaply in in your department
stores and you everywhere they are post office yeah LD yeah so whilst it's great people are
buying books and kids are having access to books we want them to have quality literature
(35:57):
and I think we do regular nights with school librarians and school libraries are closing
for space and and the teachers librarians are having to teach classes and I think that
is the most worrying thing because we're not fostering librarians realistically are the
(36:20):
ones that access more kids yeah and kids who don't read like the whole spectrum of kids
who love books and and librarians are saying either they don't have a library or their
budgets have been cut and a lot of they're getting a lot of their books from Amazon and
being shown or introduced to quality literature yeah so it's it's that domino effect of I
(36:45):
think that's what worries me most yeah I saw the thing saying that the heart of every school
is the school library I know I know I know how does the book buying process work at an
independent bookstore I was wondering if you have a catalog that you order from how often
you order how you decide what to order so we have a rep visit from each publisher once
(37:10):
a month and so they come in some more passionate than others some bring a whole suitcase full
of books and we see them four months in advance for when the book is published and from that
list we see thousands and thousands of books and we then choose what we think will work
in our bookshop as in thousands of books are being published every yeah so it's it's
(37:36):
children's books yes and that's what's really sad is you know someone has spent ages crafting
this this book whether it be a novel or a picture book and it depends on who's selling
it in they could do a really terrible job of selling it in and the bookshop never buys
it or the bookshop buys what they think will work for their their market I as well as seeing
(38:03):
the reps I follow lots of authors on the socials and illustrators so I know what is coming
up or what they're working on so even if the rep does a terrible job of selling it in I
can say this book looks amazing yeah in the hope that then they will spark that with someone
else yeah as well but yeah it is a huge responsibility to to be that gatekeeper definitely so I would
(38:30):
say to any authors or illustrators out there go and make friends with your local bookseller
yeah your independent booksellers yes it's the ticket yeah there's some books that you
have no choice over that have to be brought into the store no okay yeah we're I'm really
lucky to work for a place that we don't have KPIs or you know it's it's about filling our
(38:55):
bookshop with beautiful books that we care deeply about like we I feel responsible for
sharing those books with everyone so we carefully curate them yeah but there's no we don't have
to stock those celebrity books we stock we stock books we love and so the classics that
(39:18):
I see and they're still you know some of them that are older than me like the Shirley Hughes
and yes they are just she's my favorite I love her so much I've got Alfie I got Alfie's
my kids are probably a little bit beyond but I had to buy Alfie's feet and Alfie gets in
first because you've done them on audiobook and I have this fear that they will go out
(39:40):
of print yeah and so anytime I see I'm just like gotta get those well Alfie's gets in
first actually we had that happen when we got locked out that's what I'm worried about
so yeah that's another reason to read lots of beautiful kids books because you keep them
being published keep them being published and they may get you out of trouble one day
too yeah oh I see so you guys got locked out of the house yeah and so we had to I thought
(40:06):
you meant got locked out of ordering them or something no okay so got out of the house
when your kids were little yeah yeah I got locked out and the kids were inside so did
they had they read the book before yeah yeah so we had to that's what's great about kids
books yeah it's like remember what happened yeah blah blah blah yeah yeah that's so good
it's so good for debriefs I find yeah yeah definitely it's so and that's yeah going back
(40:30):
to our previous conversation is relatable stuff yeah well I mean wonderful stories to
escape yeah but relatable things that you can come in handy when you lock yourself out of
the house and which child hasn't put their gumboots on the wrong feet exactly that Shirley
Hughes is my I mean capturing the I think I've talked about Shirley Hughes in every
(40:53):
single interview I've done but yeah she's my very favourite she captures the everyday
which is so important for young children yeah I do I don't want to get too negative on this
podcast because this is a positive podcast yeah and there are still many beautiful books
being made but her observation of children is so detailed and carefully done and we need
(41:16):
to keep buying her books because you know that's maybe something that won't be around
forever yeah and just the way she sees how they hold themselves I said in another podcast
how should they hold their hands yeah how they hide behind their parents yeah she's
obviously you know spent hours watching them yeah and the way that she captures that little
(41:37):
world that is you know that's the whole that's a whole story for a kid having shoes on the
wrong feet yeah that they have done now they're reading about and it is important yeah I just
love that so much yeah so you keep those books in stock as long as they're being bought you
keep those classics Madeline Alfie Bob Graham they're just there yes until no one's buying
(42:01):
them oh no I will keep selling them I will keep sharing yes I will keep sharing I'm always
coming in and buying them as presents yes so I hope that I'm being helpful okay so buying
books we've talked about this a little bit but buying books can be expensive yes as we
know I know cost of living is a very high at the moment yes how can and we have to sort
(42:25):
of mentioned that books can be very cheap at Kmart and Amazon yeah how can we both support
local bookshops but also not break the bank well I was going to say also love your library
get kids need a library card because the best indicator of kids reading for pleasure is
kids choosing the book themselves and not having grown-ups dismiss their choice like
(42:50):
I know my son had an interesting he was the one who would sit and listen to book after
book after book but then kind of fell out of love with books for a little bit and I
found we went to the library yeah every three weeks and I let him choose whatever trash
he wanted to so books that I would never buy because they are expensive yeah but he borrowed
(43:16):
the trash yeah and we bought the beautiful ones yeah so I would say definitely get a
library book yeah a library card yeah and borrowed the trash and borrow the trash oh
no that's but let them borrow whatever they want to borrow and don't ever say don't get
that the junk food that you need you need sometimes but not all the time the Nutella
yeah and what we have had to look at as an independent bookshop is we can't we can't
(43:45):
compete on price yeah that we like we really we can't even buy the books from the publisher
that cheaply which also means that author and illustrator aren't getting paid as much
either yeah that's a whole other podcast yeah but what we have to do is create an experience
(44:05):
so we do lots of events with authors and illustrators so the kids get to come in and hang out with
them and meet them and get the story read to or talked about and then we will do a crafty
something related to the book yeah you did that a few weeks ago with Liz and Nellie yeah
so we do that every week yeah and it's magnificent and fun and fabulous and you want the kids
(44:29):
to to leave feeling as though they've experienced something magical yeah so all those events
are free we don't ever insist anyone buys anything but it is I guess if you're if you
want to support an independent bookshop go to the events and have a great time and then
maybe buy the author's book get it signed and it's a beautiful thing that you've got
(44:53):
forever so yeah we've had to just it's not just about being a bookshop that sells books
it's it's creating an experience and that's like you know it's a that's a an activity
an outing yeah if you then buy the book on top of all of that is still reasonably priced
yes yeah so that's great I remember actually you told me with one particular series to
(45:17):
go to the library and get it not to buy it from the bookshop oh yeah yeah and I'm glad
I mean I say that to my son I say that's a library book because I we're not going to
buy that because in my head I know I'm happy for him to read it but I know it's not going
to be one of those ones that we return to again and again and again and if they have
I have been surprised yeah we then buy it yeah exactly that's the same with me if they
(45:42):
have borrowed it more than a few times yes it speaks to them yeah yeah and that's what's
going to drive reading for life if we encourage that so and I think some of the series the
new series some of which I think are written already by AI they can smash through a chapter
book like that in one or two of those in a day yeah if they're reasonably confident reader
(46:07):
so those are the ones that I would only try and get through the library or the school
library yeah if you have one yeah but yeah it means some like one of the great ways to
know what to buy at a local bookshop independent bookshop is the ones that you can only find
there yeah yeah it's a good my favorite thing about bookselling is when the kids come back
(46:29):
and say oh my god I really love that book yeah what else can I read oh yeah so it's
great to get feedback from kids as well and that's what's lovely about doing the book
clubs is I get to see what the kids did and didn't like yeah and I can also share that
with other readers and book buyers yeah that's great each time I have a guest on the podcast
(46:53):
I ask them to recommend three children's books for listeners however I want to ask you for
your recommendations a little differently I realize I've asked you for quite a few recommendations
here but want to give it a go yeah so if a customer walked into the shop wanting to buy
three books for a new baby what would you recommend and why so I always ask whether
(47:18):
they have siblings or not because I always recommend Shirley Hughes and John Boatman
and all the books that either I loved as a child or my kids loved so if it's a first
baby I'm more likely to recommend some of the classic stuff yeah because they might
(47:40):
have that because I think every household needs Shirley Hughes in their household definitely
so there's you know things like Good Night Moon and Green Sheep and Each Pitch Pair Plum
are three that I always recommend because I think they work for lots of different ages
and they should just really be in every household agree but if they do have older siblings it's
(48:06):
about yeah finding new newer stuff so I love Soledad Bravy's Noisy Book which is a board
book that is great when there's multiple kids because they can it's that simple book of
associating noise and image and it's longer than a regular picture book but just often
(48:29):
the simple ideas are the ones that work really well and Emily Gravett's Monkey and Me that
again has a lovely I love that rhythm that rhythm and repetition that almost sing song
where you can act out part of the part of the story and it's got prompts as to what
(48:50):
might be on the next page so it's a lovely one when you've got multiple kids as well
but for yeah for the really young ones and there's you know there's gorgeous books that
have lots of there's a lovely series called Peekaboo that has Sun and Lion it's by Nosy
(49:11):
Crow and there's lots of little things for little fingers to do in there that pop up
and but it's bright and beautiful and so I guess recommending books when there's an older
sibling is is quite different yeah the new baby yeah I haven't thought about that but
I definitely invested in some new ones when I had my second child if a customer walked
(49:31):
into the shop wanting to buy three books for a preschool child whom they didn't know very
well what would you recommend and why well so with that similar I always ask do they
have all the siblings yeah so I normally my favorites are you choose which you have do
you have you choose the Pippin Goodhart and it's illustrated by Nick Chirrat and it's
(49:56):
a really great one it's probably the book that has been most adored in this house and
it's like a choose your own adventure a first user and adventure so my son has a stutter
so we did a lot of speech therapy in in that kind of three to six age range so I was always
looking for books that he could talk for little periods or if he was feeling more confident
(50:24):
to talk about things for longer yeah so that's why John Birmingham's Would You Rather was
great it was that back and forth conversational but you choose is just this it's wordless
and you make up your own story or you can it just gets the kids thinking outside the
box because normally they choose the same characters or the same house and it's great
(50:46):
to see them starting to choose other things that they wouldn't normally choose okay that
sounds great and it's the best book week costume ever because you can just wear all of your
clothes all at once but that I that is probably one of our best selling books in the whole
bookshop actually okay and it works for lots of different ages gonna have to come in Rachel
and also any parents listening there's a book week hack for you yes it's looking for easiest
(51:12):
yes but look you know Bob Graham we could we could just talk about book recommendations
forever forever Alison Lester's when when Frank was four like there's just so much about
going back to Bob Graham just quickly have you got one in one particular oh Rose Meets
(51:33):
Mr. Meeter Garden because it's such a good one about about kindness and empathy and the
more we read books like that the the nicer adults we're gonna have in the world there's
another new one that I absolutely love called Dinosaur in my Pocket by Ashley Barton oh
(51:55):
okay that yeah and it has bluey episode vibes yeah and it's a really lovely one about a
boy who collects things and that alone I'm there for is this preschool still yeah preschool
yeah dinosaur in my pocket yes is that all your preschool books oh my god I know yeah
(52:17):
there's also a really lovely one that has just come out by Gabrielle Evans called Listen
Hippo and it's beautifully illustrated he's one of my favorites but it's such a lovely
one about the main character is just feeling a bit rubbish yeah and Hippo is a bit of a
fixer and tries to do all these fabulous things to brighten his day but actually all he really
(52:43):
wants is someone to sit down and listen to him so it's a lovely reminder as busy parents
and overwhelmed adults but also a really lovely book to to talk about emotions with kids in
a non didactic way just to it's just a really beautiful story and that's probably gonna
(53:09):
be one of my favorites for the year actually so for older children teens and tweens how
do you help people decide what to buy for them well I read a lot yeah you're across
it yeah and that's what's great about indie bookshops is the stuff are readers I love
(53:30):
middle grade there's so many wonderful wonderful books for middle grade but again it's it book
clubs wonderful ways to because I'm also reading them with a grown-up hat on and sometimes
yeah sometimes the books that I really love the kids can't stand so it's it's a great
(53:51):
balanced way for me to see what's popular what what's not yeah and helps recommending
the kids like it I think when kids come in looking especially the teens if they hear
that other teenagers have liked it they're more likely to pick the book up then the middle
(54:15):
age lady yeah thank you so much for coming on the podcast today Rachel it's been so
great having you love this conversation have learned so much going away with a long list
of books to buy excellent thank you for having me I could talk books with you all day every
day it's so much it's such a joy yeah I'm sure we'll have you back again sometime soon
This week on the Read Aloud Home I visited Rachel Robson at her home in Sydney's inner
(00:06):
west. Rachel is the 2023 Book People Hardy Grant Children's Book Seller of the Year.
She's been working in children's book selling for 20 years and currently works at Glee Books in Sydney.
Anyone who has been into Glee Books to a children's book event or to ask for help choosing a book will know how passionate Rachel is about children's literature.
In this conversation Rachel and I talk about the children's book industry. We also talk about what makes independent bookshops different, how to keep reading with older children and what to do if you find that a book you want is out of print.
(00:38):
Hello, my name is Laura Cunningham and this is the Read Aloud Home. This podcast is all about how we can enjoy reading stories with children and how we can create a read aloud home in a modern world.
The podcast will give you ideas and inspiration for creating the best possible read aloud environment in an age of unprecedented technological distractions.
(01:00):
Yes, I do believe it is possible. Today, the Read Aloud Home is recording on the land of the Gadigal people.
Okay, so welcome Rachel to the Read Aloud Home. It's so great to have you here today.
Pleasure, pleasure.
I remember reading a post on Instagram a few months ago about a book called Meet the Lithographer by Gabby Bazin, which is about the history and process of lithography.
(01:30):
In the post you talked about how you trained as a lithographer but fell into the wonderful world of children's books.
That was 20 years ago.
Can you tell us a little more about how that all happened and how you came to be a children's bookseller?
Okay, how exciting to have a kids book about lithography.
Yeah, I know.
(01:51):
So I got into children's bookselling and the wonderful world of children's books.
The scenic route. I grew up in Far North Queensland and we didn't have a bookshop but we had a beautiful library that had a wonderful mural of the Daintree in the kids section.
(02:12):
So whenever you were reading books or spending time in there it felt like you were in the middle of the Daintree rainforest.
So I never grew out of kids books and spent all my teen years in the Daintree rainforest.
In the Swell Library reading books.
So I particularly never grew out of the artwork that is in picture books and went on to study fine art at university where I discovered the absolute joy of drawing onto large slabs of limestone, which is how you do a lithograph.
(02:52):
And I ended up working in a print studio where we used to print for lots of well-known artists.
So we would help a lot of the Archibald winners and some strange folk like Chopper Reed came and did some prints and Mr. Squiggle.
(03:14):
We did a lot of stuff with Reg Mon Basel.
And so my plan was to then go and work in lots of print studios doing the same thing around the world.
So I ended up doing some residencies through Europe and then ended up in Newcastle upon Tyne in England where they had a wonderful print studio.
(03:35):
But they also had a magnificent children's book museum called Seven Stories.
And it was in an old flour mill and it had seven stories in the flour mill based on the seven major plot lines in stories.
So we had two levels that were galleries and they housed some of the original illustrations from Shirley Hughes.
(04:04):
Yes, of course.
And David McKee and so many wonderful, wonderful British illustrators.
And then there was an attic space where we would act out the stories and a craft space where we would make beautiful artwork based on the illustrations that we saw in the galleries.
(04:25):
Dreamy.
It was so wonderful.
And so I worked in the museum side of things for a couple of years, but then a job became available in the bookshop.
And I realised after kids were coming back and saying they loved my recommendation and sharing books with kids of all ages, I realised this as much as I love lithography, I had found my jam.
(04:53):
So great.
And you were the 2023 children's bookseller of the year.
I am very excited.
So you still are, aren't you?
Because it goes, it happens again in the middle of.
So they announced the new children's bookseller in June.
In June.
But it's very exciting that there is an award that acknowledges and celebrates children's bookselling as a career choice.
(05:19):
Yeah.
I said it's a wonderful place to be.
It's such a good place to be.
Did you, how did that come about you being the 2023 bookseller of the year?
Children's bookseller of the year.
So you're nominated by peers.
Yeah.
And in other industry professionals.
(05:40):
And then chosen.
So a shortlist is announced and then it's chosen by a panel of industry professionals.
And then there is a big conference that celebrates bookselling once a year.
And.
And that was announced and I danced and leapt across the stage and they didn't know what hit them.
(06:04):
And I made a very passionate speech about children's booksellers being the most important people in the bookshop because.
We are the ones that spark that love.
And joy of reading, which will make lifelong readers.
Yes, absolutely.
Each time I have a guest on the podcast, I ask them to read to us a piece of their favourite children's literature.
(06:27):
I'm sure this is going to be very hard for you to decide.
It was very difficult.
And I had a really great conversation with my kids about this because.
There's, I have so many books that are my favourite books.
Some I reread.
There's a whole host of books that.
(06:50):
That I've read at different stages of my life and got something different out of.
But we also talked about my kids are now 10 and 13 and we still read aloud.
That's so good.
Yeah, there's it's such a joyful thing to read together.
Yeah, especially with kids of different ages.
(07:13):
And so we spoke at length about some of the books that we have read together.
And being a podcast that celebrates reading aloud.
We all decided that Frindle was something that we'd love to share.
So this is a joint effort.
I love that.
Patrick and Rose.
Oh, that's great.
And this we loved.
Actually, this is a book that I read independently.
(07:38):
And the second I finished reading it, I was like, I have to read this aloud with my kids.
And I've never read a book back to back before.
Yeah.
So the second I finished that last page, I rounded the kids up and I read it straight away.
And we read it together and loved it.
So the book I'm choosing is called Frindle.
(07:59):
Yep.
Which is by Andrew Clement.
I also love it because it has beautiful illustrations by Brian Zelsnick, who illustrated Hugo Cabray,
which is my favorite book of all time.
But Frindle is a middle grade book.
It's a short book, but it's a great book that you can share with a class or if you've got multiple ages at home.
(08:29):
The kids in the story, I think from memory about year five or six.
Yeah.
And they've been looking at the origin of words in class with their teacher.
I also love this book because it celebrates wonderful work that teachers do.
And the main character, Nick, is really excited about how books end up in the dictionary.
(08:54):
So he takes it upon himself to change the word pen to Frindle and try and convince initially just his class to no longer call a pen a Frindle.
So do you want me to read?
Yeah, please.
I'll read you a short chapter.
Chapter seven, Word Wars.
(09:16):
School was the perfect place to launch a new word.
And since this was a major historical event, Nick wanted it to begin in exactly the right class.
Seventh period language arts.
Nick raised his hand first thing after the bell and said, Mrs. Granger, I forgot my Frindle.
(09:38):
Sitting three rows away, John blurted out, Oh, I have an extra one you can borrow Nick.
Then John made a big show of looking for something in his backpack.
Oh, yeah, I think I've got an extra Frindle.
I mean, I told my mom to get me three or four.
I'm sure I had an extra Frindle in here yesterday, but I must have taken it.
Oh, wait.
(09:59):
Oh, yeah, here it is.
And then John made a big show of throwing it over to Nick.
And then Nick missed it on purpose.
Then he made a big show of finding it.
Mrs. Granger and every kid in the class got the message loud and clear.
That black plastic thing that Nick borrowed from John had a funny name, a different name, a new name.
(10:27):
It was a Frindle.
So do you have kids call a pen a Frindle?
We did. We did have a bit of a spate of calling pens Frindles.
But yeah, it's such a joyful book to read aloud.
And a really interesting look at how words get into the dictionary and how kids, I think, kids can change the world as well.
(10:54):
Like, yeah, because kids have a voice.
Yeah.
Now, that's so I don't want to give out any spoiler alert.
No, it's got a cracking end.
Okay.
I'm going to get it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As soon as I saw the word Frindle, I was like, that's right.
That's one of those books that I need to have on my radar.
(11:15):
Now that you've shared with us that you read still read aloud with your children.
Yes.
Can you share with us how does that come about in your house when your kids are 10 and 13?
It's easy when they're little, obviously.
But how do you make it happen?
Well, they shared a room up until quite recently.
So it was much easier then.
And now that Patrick's in high school, what we started doing, because I noticed how tired he was.
(11:44):
Yeah.
So we started, I'm quite late to the party with the whole poetry extravaganza.
So we started, I found a gorgeous book called A Poem a Day.
Yes.
So we would just do one poem a day and it gave you a little bit of info about the poet.
(12:06):
Sometimes it was a song, but it was still reading aloud.
So it was just trying to find pockets of time.
We would do that at night, but our reading has changed in the house, having a high school child.
So we do tend to read as a family either after school.
(12:33):
We've changed our reading habits.
So instead of reading at night, we will have two afternoons after school a week where I will maybe get some tasty treats.
So associate it with something fabulous.
Yeah, because yeah, my son would probably rather be on his phone or, so it is competing with technology.
(12:58):
We all read together and eat biscuits and, or we will read together at night.
And it was really lovely the other night.
We were reading together, separate books, but all reading together.
And Patty was so obsessed with whatever he was reading that I let him read till midnight.
(13:21):
It's got to be done.
So I'm pretty loose around the rules of bedtime anyway.
Yeah.
But I just found reading at night, especially, yeah, my older child was not engaging as much.
So we tend to read at different times of day.
So when they were little, you would probably do the classic reading aloud before bedtime.
(13:43):
Yeah, but we have always read.
There's no, this is reading time.
I've always taken books with me.
We didn't have a car, so we were quite often on public transport.
But I always, books have always been carried around with us and still do for doctor's appointments.
Because if you've got that option of reading a book or actually, I think I saw you do the same thing.
(14:09):
It's yeah.
Yes.
I said that on my Instagram the other day, didn't I?
Yeah.
That's exactly what we did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I said on my Instagram that it's, you know, screen time is essentially Nutella.
Yeah.
And books are peanut butter.
Yes.
And peanut butter is fine if Nutella is not sitting next to it on the table.
(14:30):
Yes, that's true.
You nailed that one.
But when Nutella and peanut butter sit next to each other, who isn't going to choose Nutella?
I mean, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of Nutella, but my children would definitely choose Nutella.
So just taking the devices away as an option gives books so much more possibility.
Yeah.
And we have books everywhere in the house.
(14:51):
We have books in the toilet.
Yes, I've noticed.
I'm here in Rachel's house and there are books everywhere.
Books.
Yeah, we have a book featured on the kitchen bench.
So if they're sitting there with me, they can flick through something.
But reading.
And even if we don't have a reading aloud, this is our reading aloud time.
(15:15):
But I quite often still read snippets of books aloud to both kids.
And then they end up engaging with that and then reading that themselves.
So read recipes, read.
Yeah.
Read newspaper articles.
Read everything.
(15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's no this is the right time to read.
Just make it fun.
Yeah, I think that's so important.
And I also used to be a lot more organized and neat in my house.
And then I realized that if I want them to read, yes, the books just need to be available.
(15:57):
You know, they're on the couch, they're on the kitchen table, they're in their bedrooms, in our bedroom, because then they'll pick one up.
Yes.
As opposed to if they're all packed away neatly.
They're not always when they're little, I feel like going to go and seek them out as much.
Yeah.
Some kids will, but I feel like it's just that such an opportunity when they're just around.
Yes, absolutely.
(16:18):
And don't ever get rid of your picture books, because I found as my kids get older, like I never actually grew out of picture books.
I was still buying them in my teens.
I just they're such beautiful little works of art.
And what I've noticed is as the kids get older and school is more demanding and homework and after school activities, they are tired.
(16:49):
And so twice a week, both my kids take a either ask me to choose three book picture books or they choose three picture books themselves.
I've still we've still got picture books all throughout the house in every room.
And they go to bed and read them with an older head on.
(17:10):
And yeah, it's it's wonderful to see a 13 year old boy still getting that comfort and pleasure from from a picture book that he read when he was three.
Yeah.
So it's they're not dumbed down.
They're they're yeah, they're beautiful.
(17:31):
Yeah, I've actually read that in some ways picture books, because they have so much less space for words, the choice of words is so has to be in a good picture book.
The choice of words has to be perfect.
Yeah, you have no room for error.
So they are just such high quality pieces of literature in a sense.
But also the illustration.
(17:52):
Yeah, such a big fan of visual storytelling.
Yeah.
The next question was going to be what makes a good picture book.
Okay, so I have always been drawn to illustration.
So that is the reason I picked the book up in the first place.
And I'm also a sucker for especially for reading aloud for younger kids.
(18:17):
A bit of rhyme and rhythm.
Yeah, I love that almost sing song where it's it's it's an absolute joy to read aloud.
It is interesting because I do story time at the bookshop.
Finding choosing books to read to a group is very different to reading one on one.
Yeah.
With someone.
(18:38):
So in terms of what makes a good picture book, it for reading, you know, one on one or with a small group, I really love something that that you can interact with.
You can make it your own story.
Yeah.
And we were just talking about there's a new book called Our Home by Katherine Mead Meaderingham and Max Hamilton.
(19:02):
And it just reminded me, it made me kind of miss that reading with small children at home because there was so much to look at in the pictures.
And it focuses on the sounds of homes and landscapes all around Australia and there's little threads that run throughout the story that kids will love to look for in, you know, in the pitches.
(19:30):
And yeah, I just think it needs to be something that you will enjoy reading because the more you enjoy it, the kids that is infectious.
Totally.
But I am a sucker for a beautifully illustrated and I've been collecting books long before I had kids.
So it was interesting.
Some of the books that I bought that were beautifully illustrated that maybe didn't work.
(19:56):
The kids didn't love the story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I found that as well.
I find that's a huge one.
And actually I had my oldest one.
He's very happy to listen to anything really.
But the my younger one, he went through it went to his gateway.
Author was definitely Julia Donaldson.
Yes.
So much.
(20:17):
There's action as well as that real rollicking.
Yeah.
Rhythm rhyme.
Yeah.
Well, she writes them all as a song initially.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That really got him over the line.
He was like, oh yeah, I can do this.
Whereas a sort of more slow paced he was not it's not four years more now, but as a three really busy three year old.
(20:39):
And then the other thing I was going to say was I spoke to Brumman at roaring roaring stories and she was telling me she used to be a preschool teacher.
Yeah.
That yeah.
What you said exactly that some books really don't work for reading aloud to a classroom as opposed to reading with just one or two kids at home.
And yeah, she got quite good at working out which ones would work.
(21:01):
I think if you're reading to a large group, they do want that interactive.
They want space.
Yeah.
To be included in the story.
Yeah.
They don't want to sit there and be spoken at.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, actually, we've been asked to come and read to my older son's class.
So that's six to nine year olds.
(21:23):
And I keep asking like, Oh, what did the parent this week read?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, Oh, do I think that would work or not?
The kids are pretty open to being read to.
But I was like, what would I read?
And I actually thought I'd read one that you introduced me to.
John Burnett Birmingham.
Would you would you rather?
Yeah, that's my favorite.
And they would love that.
(21:44):
Yeah, because it would just be so silly.
Yeah.
In the classroom environment.
They're involved.
Yeah.
And they know that all have an opinion.
Yeah.
And they know that the story time can potentially go for three hours.
Yeah.
But then I thought about that.
I don't know how the teachers will feel.
No, that's the perfect.
Do you think so?
Absolutely.
And on the one I thought I could do, because you can do one or two would be bamboozle.
(22:06):
Have you ever heard that?
Yes.
That's my favorite.
Yeah.
I just thought that age group six to nine, they would just love that sort of interactive
having to have a think a little bit of a think themselves and, you know, finding the unusual
bamboozle by David Lynch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, I've been I've been I've been thinking a lot about, yeah, reading aloud picture books
(22:28):
to a group.
But also what I found with doing author events, even with presenters with illustrators or authors,
as well as reading aloud to a class, not everyone likes aloud story time either.
Yeah.
And I think the tricky thing is, is knowing who you're reading to.
(22:51):
Because I've done a lot of reading in schools as well.
Oh, have you?
I I loved my kids teachers so much that I kept volunteering in their classes to the point
where it was almost a full time job.
That's so good.
But I yeah, just and I think the more I realized that we were moving away from reading for
pleasure at school.
(23:13):
I felt it really important to to keep volunteering and doing that and finding that joy in in
reading a book together rather than analyzing it to the point of no one ever wants to see
that book ever again.
Yeah.
Because reading for pleasure is what is going to drive kids and adults.
(23:38):
I think we've we've also lost that reading for pleasure is what is going to drive us
to be long term readers.
Yeah.
Rather than I think school has just become so full.
Yeah.
And everything has to be a learning experience that we've forgotten the joy and fun of choosing
(24:01):
a book that you want to read rather than a book that you have to read or you have to
analyze it to the point.
Yeah.
But you don't ever want to see it again.
That is my experience from so many of the books that I read at high school.
I would never look at them again.
But also what you said before about I mean reading for pleasure.
(24:22):
I did listen to an interview with someone else who does a lot of podcasts on reading
aloud and she sort of talked about how we don't go to our book clubs as adults and get
quizzed on.
Yeah, exactly.
These random details in the book.
Ridiculous.
You go and someone offers you a you know a Riesling.
Yeah.
A piece of cheese and cracker and you sit around and you talk about the book in such
(24:47):
an enjoyable way.
And why can't why do we expect to like why did why can't children do that as well a bit
more.
Why does it have to always be over analysis.
I mean I'm not a teacher but I feel like you can get a lot out of a book without having
to remember some random date or someone's age in it.
Yeah, there's not really.
(25:08):
Yeah, personally.
Yeah.
So if we want teenagers to read for pleasure how where does that all begin as someone with
teenage a teenager now and a tween I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How does how do you set that habit up.
Book clubs are wonderful.
(25:30):
Yeah.
I mean I did run book clubs at the shop but I also ran them at the school.
Yeah.
Okay.
At lunchtime and I popcorn was the segue in and some of the kids came purely for the
popcorn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then we would talk about about the books and it didn't matter if you didn't read them
(25:54):
or we would talk about things that happened in the story and relate it back to what's
happening in their life.
Yeah.
And it kind of then they started reading the books and getting more involved.
Yeah.
So we even had a few romances in the teen book club where they were hooking up with
(26:15):
each other.
That could be one way of.
But just again it totally comes down for reading for pleasure like we do lose them a bit.
Yeah.
And providing an environment where it's social and peer inspired book choosing as well.
I've noticed.
(26:36):
Yeah.
My son is not totally open to his middle aged mom coming home with a this is a great book.
If his friends recommend it he's more likely to read it.
So being surrounded by that where there's a bunch of them reading for pleasure.
Yeah.
Eating popcorn.
Maybe fancying someone else in the group or.
(26:57):
Perfect.
But yeah just having discussions about things that happen in the book and we're really lucky
living in Sydney in the West.
There's loads of authors and illustrators that live locally so we invite them to come
along.
Yeah cool.
To book club.
So it's a really relaxed setting sitting around eating popcorn with the actual author or
(27:20):
illustrator.
Yeah.
And it's a really nice book.
Yeah.
That's also a really great kids actually meeting the writer.
Yeah.
Is huge in terms of getting them excited about reading.
Yeah.
That's great.
So yeah join your library or your bookshop because there's loads of events.
We've got Sydney Writers Festival coming up where they have YA Saturday and there's loads
(27:47):
of panels and.
Illustrator battle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a big hit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the highlight I think.
But just going to see author events.
It's very inspiring.
(28:11):
Why should grownups care about children's books?
They make us want to be better people.
I think there's so much books.
Children's books are hopeful.
It's they're full of characters flawed characters who find their way.
Yeah.
But there's always hope.
And I think the more widely we read whether we read yeah diverse authors and illustrators
(28:36):
and the kinder adults we become because we're seeing and that I mean that happens for adult
books as well but I think there's there's something really special about reading widely
with kids younger and doing that together.
What are the main changes trends you've seen in the children's book world during both your
(28:59):
time as a mother and working in the industry?
I am slightly concerned about the direction it's been going the last few years because
it has I think I really noticed how sales driven publishing is in the last couple of
years and we're heading very much in that fast fashion celebrity culture.
(29:23):
So looking at selling a load of books quickly and then they disappear.
And I guess our role as booksellers is we're just not buying them anymore.
So we're just not stocking them in the bookshop.
So a lot of it is yeah I think there's too many books being published and it's all about
(29:43):
making a lot of money quickly instead of focusing on beautiful books that are going to be around
forever.
That's what's great about independent booksellers I think is we've got a really important role
to to make sure that doesn't happen because there is that thing of I mean the K-Marts
(30:04):
and the big W's are selling books cheaper than we can't get them from the publisher
for that price which sounds terrible complaining about that because you want books to be accessible
for everyone and it's books are expensive but what that means is the publishers are
(30:24):
wanting to sell lots of those books to the K-Marts and the big W's and that's what's
driving publishing.
Yeah I often say to my kids do you did you ever read with your kids the Jill Buckland
spring story autumn story oh yeah summer story yeah apparently it took her five years to
(30:46):
make each of those books.
I know yes absolutely.
And Jeannie Baker's the same it's five years per book and when you look at the book you
can see that the level of detail and care and it is a concern of mine and it's part
of the reason of starting the podcast that that is going and that people think you can
(31:08):
make a children's book in one day and I actually listened to a podcast where someone said that
explicitly.
Well especially now with AI like we are seeing the demise of beautifully illustrated books
a lot of the covers for us it's obvious that it's been an AI generated image yeah like
losing book design I think they're the forgotten we need to celebrate book designers just as
(31:34):
much as we celebrate the author and the illustrator yeah because it's all the books are starting
to look the same I know it's so true and you know we have so many books that I will never
part with because they they're almost like family yeah support your independent bookstore
(31:54):
because we're the ones that will keep the those beautiful books around forever.
So why do books go out of print?
It is sales driven I'm really noticing that now publishers are really focused on pre-sales
now yeah it's a huge thing isn't it through Amazon and yeah yeah and really encouraging
(32:16):
people to buy the book before it comes out.
Do you know where they do that?
Where it predicts how much they print yeah and publishers aren't printing as much okay
as they used to post-covid I think yeah and there's also you know books that change that
might be problematic there's all this talking about banning books yeah like the Roald Dahl
(32:40):
yeah comes up every few years yes and part of me thinks it's part of the publishing
advertising campaign because what happens is everyone panic buys yeah okay Roald Dahl
books yeah nothing like a brand book that will never go out of print no because it's
sales driven and people still love Roald Dahl yeah there was something about the Dr Zeus
books yes they're stopping some publishing some aren't they yeah and some of them I guess
(33:03):
are problematic they're not banning them they're just they're not selling yeah but there there
have been books that we have absolutely loved over the years that people still ask for all
the time and they're out of print and we hassle the publisher we've just had Zaza's baby brother
(33:24):
by Lucy Cousins oh yes I've got that which has been one of the best books to recommend
for new siblings yes that's a very niche isn't it in a way so it's kind of good because people
want it yeah but it's such a it was our best selling yeah so we just kept hassling the
publisher and I got an email the other day to say hooray guess what's coming back into
(33:46):
print and so you know speak up and tell your local library or bookshop or okay we yeah
we just email the publisher and say we're having there's so much demand for this book
why has it gone out of print so that book also need a house call Miss Mouse do you
(34:07):
remember yes so that's it that's that did something that went out of print for a while yeah because
then I found it over Christmas that they'd done a rerun yes so enough people okay asked
for it so people power okay so this is very exciting Rachel yes I have panic about some
of the books that I treasure going out of print so if you're listening to this people
(34:30):
power call Rachel reader power yes call me she will sort this out for you yeah yeah but
books can come back so they'll stop publishing them if they're not selling but you can if
enough people want them they will consider doing a reprint yeah okay do you think that
the celebrity culture and the sort of make a book in a day culture versus the really
(34:55):
carefully thought out and planned book is because parents just don't really know what
to buy what is a good children's book where does it come from well a lot of those books
are being produced cheaply yeah and they're more accessible what I find most disturbing
(35:15):
is publishers are putting a lot of their advertising and marketing money into into those books
rather than supporting beautiful authors and illustrators who who do it for a living yeah
and quite often the books aren't even written by the celebrity yeah using the celebrity
(35:36):
name but those books are everywhere so you will see them cheaply in in your department
stores and you everywhere they are post office yeah LD yeah so whilst it's great people are
buying books and kids are having access to books we want them to have quality literature
(35:57):
and I think we do regular nights with school librarians and school libraries are closing
for space and and the teachers librarians are having to teach classes and I think that
is the most worrying thing because we're not fostering librarians realistically are the
(36:20):
ones that access more kids yeah and kids who don't read like the whole spectrum of kids
who love books and and librarians are saying either they don't have a library or their
budgets have been cut and a lot of they're getting a lot of their books from Amazon and
being shown or introduced to quality literature yeah so it's it's that domino effect of I
(36:45):
think that's what worries me most yeah I saw the thing saying that the heart of every school
is the school library I know I know I know how does the book buying process work at an
independent bookstore I was wondering if you have a catalog that you order from how often
you order how you decide what to order so we have a rep visit from each publisher once
(37:10):
a month and so they come in some more passionate than others some bring a whole suitcase full
of books and we see them four months in advance for when the book is published and from that
list we see thousands and thousands of books and we then choose what we think will work
in our bookshop as in thousands of books are being published every yeah so it's it's
(37:36):
children's books yes and that's what's really sad is you know someone has spent ages crafting
this this book whether it be a novel or a picture book and it depends on who's selling
it in they could do a really terrible job of selling it in and the bookshop never buys
it or the bookshop buys what they think will work for their their market I as well as seeing
(38:03):
the reps I follow lots of authors on the socials and illustrators so I know what is coming
up or what they're working on so even if the rep does a terrible job of selling it in I
can say this book looks amazing yeah in the hope that then they will spark that with someone
else yeah as well but yeah it is a huge responsibility to to be that gatekeeper definitely so I would
(38:30):
say to any authors or illustrators out there go and make friends with your local bookseller
yeah your independent booksellers yes it's the ticket yeah there's some books that you
have no choice over that have to be brought into the store no okay yeah we're I'm really
lucky to work for a place that we don't have KPIs or you know it's it's about filling our
(38:55):
bookshop with beautiful books that we care deeply about like we I feel responsible for
sharing those books with everyone so we carefully curate them yeah but there's no we don't have
to stock those celebrity books we stock we stock books we love and so the classics that
(39:18):
I see and they're still you know some of them that are older than me like the Shirley Hughes
and yes they are just she's my favorite I love her so much I've got Alfie I got Alfie's
my kids are probably a little bit beyond but I had to buy Alfie's feet and Alfie gets in
first because you've done them on audiobook and I have this fear that they will go out
(39:40):
of print yeah and so anytime I see I'm just like gotta get those well Alfie's gets in
first actually we had that happen when we got locked out that's what I'm worried about
so yeah that's another reason to read lots of beautiful kids books because you keep them
being published keep them being published and they may get you out of trouble one day
too yeah oh I see so you guys got locked out of the house yeah and so we had to I thought
(40:06):
you meant got locked out of ordering them or something no okay so got out of the house
when your kids were little yeah yeah I got locked out and the kids were inside so did
they had they read the book before yeah yeah so we had to that's what's great about kids
books yeah it's like remember what happened yeah blah blah blah yeah yeah that's so good
it's so good for debriefs I find yeah yeah definitely it's so and that's yeah going back
(40:30):
to our previous conversation is relatable stuff yeah well I mean wonderful stories to
escape yeah but relatable things that you can come in handy when you lock yourself out of
the house and which child hasn't put their gumboots on the wrong feet exactly that Shirley
Hughes is my I mean capturing the I think I've talked about Shirley Hughes in every
(40:53):
single interview I've done but yeah she's my very favourite she captures the everyday
which is so important for young children yeah I do I don't want to get too negative on this
podcast because this is a positive podcast yeah and there are still many beautiful books
being made but her observation of children is so detailed and carefully done and we need
(41:16):
to keep buying her books because you know that's maybe something that won't be around
forever yeah and just the way she sees how they hold themselves I said in another podcast
how should they hold their hands yeah how they hide behind their parents yeah she's
obviously you know spent hours watching them yeah and the way that she captures that little
(41:37):
world that is you know that's the whole that's a whole story for a kid having shoes on the
wrong feet yeah that they have done now they're reading about and it is important yeah I just
love that so much yeah so you keep those books in stock as long as they're being bought you
keep those classics Madeline Alfie Bob Graham they're just there yes until no one's buying
(42:01):
them oh no I will keep selling them I will keep sharing yes I will keep sharing I'm always
coming in and buying them as presents yes so I hope that I'm being helpful okay so buying
books we've talked about this a little bit but buying books can be expensive yes as we
know I know cost of living is a very high at the moment yes how can and we have to sort
(42:25):
of mentioned that books can be very cheap at Kmart and Amazon yeah how can we both support
local bookshops but also not break the bank well I was going to say also love your library
get kids need a library card because the best indicator of kids reading for pleasure is
kids choosing the book themselves and not having grown-ups dismiss their choice like
(42:50):
I know my son had an interesting he was the one who would sit and listen to book after
book after book but then kind of fell out of love with books for a little bit and I
found we went to the library yeah every three weeks and I let him choose whatever trash
he wanted to so books that I would never buy because they are expensive yeah but he borrowed
(43:16):
the trash yeah and we bought the beautiful ones yeah so I would say definitely get a
library book yeah a library card yeah and borrowed the trash and borrow the trash oh
no that's but let them borrow whatever they want to borrow and don't ever say don't get
that the junk food that you need you need sometimes but not all the time the Nutella
yeah and what we have had to look at as an independent bookshop is we can't we can't
(43:45):
compete on price yeah that we like we really we can't even buy the books from the publisher
that cheaply which also means that author and illustrator aren't getting paid as much
either yeah that's a whole other podcast yeah but what we have to do is create an experience
(44:05):
so we do lots of events with authors and illustrators so the kids get to come in and hang out with
them and meet them and get the story read to or talked about and then we will do a crafty
something related to the book yeah you did that a few weeks ago with Liz and Nellie yeah
so we do that every week yeah and it's magnificent and fun and fabulous and you want the kids
(44:29):
to to leave feeling as though they've experienced something magical yeah so all those events
are free we don't ever insist anyone buys anything but it is I guess if you're if you
want to support an independent bookshop go to the events and have a great time and then
maybe buy the author's book get it signed and it's a beautiful thing that you've got
(44:53):
forever so yeah we've had to just it's not just about being a bookshop that sells books
it's it's creating an experience and that's like you know it's a that's a an activity
an outing yeah if you then buy the book on top of all of that is still reasonably priced
yes yeah so that's great I remember actually you told me with one particular series to
(45:17):
go to the library and get it not to buy it from the bookshop oh yeah yeah and I'm glad
I mean I say that to my son I say that's a library book because I we're not going to
buy that because in my head I know I'm happy for him to read it but I know it's not going
to be one of those ones that we return to again and again and again and if they have
I have been surprised yeah we then buy it yeah exactly that's the same with me if they
(45:42):
have borrowed it more than a few times yes it speaks to them yeah yeah and that's what's
going to drive reading for life if we encourage that so and I think some of the series the
new series some of which I think are written already by AI they can smash through a chapter
book like that in one or two of those in a day yeah if they're reasonably confident reader
(46:07):
so those are the ones that I would only try and get through the library or the school
library yeah if you have one yeah but yeah it means some like one of the great ways to
know what to buy at a local bookshop independent bookshop is the ones that you can only find
there yeah yeah it's a good my favorite thing about bookselling is when the kids come back
(46:29):
and say oh my god I really love that book yeah what else can I read oh yeah so it's
great to get feedback from kids as well and that's what's lovely about doing the book
clubs is I get to see what the kids did and didn't like yeah and I can also share that
with other readers and book buyers yeah that's great each time I have a guest on the podcast
(46:53):
I ask them to recommend three children's books for listeners however I want to ask you for
your recommendations a little differently I realize I've asked you for quite a few recommendations
here but want to give it a go yeah so if a customer walked into the shop wanting to buy
three books for a new baby what would you recommend and why so I always ask whether
(47:18):
they have siblings or not because I always recommend Shirley Hughes and John Boatman
and all the books that either I loved as a child or my kids loved so if it's a first
baby I'm more likely to recommend some of the classic stuff yeah because they might
(47:40):
have that because I think every household needs Shirley Hughes in their household definitely
so there's you know things like Good Night Moon and Green Sheep and Each Pitch Pair Plum
are three that I always recommend because I think they work for lots of different ages
and they should just really be in every household agree but if they do have older siblings it's
(48:06):
about yeah finding new newer stuff so I love Soledad Bravy's Noisy Book which is a board
book that is great when there's multiple kids because they can it's that simple book of
associating noise and image and it's longer than a regular picture book but just often
(48:29):
the simple ideas are the ones that work really well and Emily Gravett's Monkey and Me that
again has a lovely I love that rhythm that rhythm and repetition that almost sing song
where you can act out part of the part of the story and it's got prompts as to what
(48:50):
might be on the next page so it's a lovely one when you've got multiple kids as well
but for yeah for the really young ones and there's you know there's gorgeous books that
have lots of there's a lovely series called Peekaboo that has Sun and Lion it's by Nosy
(49:11):
Crow and there's lots of little things for little fingers to do in there that pop up
and but it's bright and beautiful and so I guess recommending books when there's an older
sibling is is quite different yeah the new baby yeah I haven't thought about that but
I definitely invested in some new ones when I had my second child if a customer walked
(49:31):
into the shop wanting to buy three books for a preschool child whom they didn't know very
well what would you recommend and why well so with that similar I always ask do they
have all the siblings yeah so I normally my favorites are you choose which you have do
you have you choose the Pippin Goodhart and it's illustrated by Nick Chirrat and it's
(49:56):
a really great one it's probably the book that has been most adored in this house and
it's like a choose your own adventure a first user and adventure so my son has a stutter
so we did a lot of speech therapy in in that kind of three to six age range so I was always
looking for books that he could talk for little periods or if he was feeling more confident
(50:24):
to talk about things for longer yeah so that's why John Birmingham's Would You Rather was
great it was that back and forth conversational but you choose is just this it's wordless
and you make up your own story or you can it just gets the kids thinking outside the
box because normally they choose the same characters or the same house and it's great
(50:46):
to see them starting to choose other things that they wouldn't normally choose okay that
sounds great and it's the best book week costume ever because you can just wear all of your
clothes all at once but that I that is probably one of our best selling books in the whole
bookshop actually okay and it works for lots of different ages gonna have to come in Rachel
and also any parents listening there's a book week hack for you yes it's looking for easiest
(51:12):
yes but look you know Bob Graham we could we could just talk about book recommendations
forever forever Alison Lester's when when Frank was four like there's just so much about
going back to Bob Graham just quickly have you got one in one particular oh Rose Meets
(51:33):
Mr. Meeter Garden because it's such a good one about about kindness and empathy and the
more we read books like that the the nicer adults we're gonna have in the world there's
another new one that I absolutely love called Dinosaur in my Pocket by Ashley Barton oh
(51:55):
okay that yeah and it has bluey episode vibes yeah and it's a really lovely one about a
boy who collects things and that alone I'm there for is this preschool still yeah preschool
yeah dinosaur in my pocket yes is that all your preschool books oh my god I know yeah
(52:17):
there's also a really lovely one that has just come out by Gabrielle Evans called Listen
Hippo and it's beautifully illustrated he's one of my favorites but it's such a lovely
one about the main character is just feeling a bit rubbish yeah and Hippo is a bit of a
fixer and tries to do all these fabulous things to brighten his day but actually all he really
(52:43):
wants is someone to sit down and listen to him so it's a lovely reminder as busy parents
and overwhelmed adults but also a really lovely book to to talk about emotions with kids in
a non didactic way just to it's just a really beautiful story and that's probably gonna
(53:09):
be one of my favorites for the year actually so for older children teens and tweens how
do you help people decide what to buy for them well I read a lot yeah you're across
it yeah and that's what's great about indie bookshops is the stuff are readers I love
(53:30):
middle grade there's so many wonderful wonderful books for middle grade but again it's it book
clubs wonderful ways to because I'm also reading them with a grown-up hat on and sometimes
yeah sometimes the books that I really love the kids can't stand so it's it's a great
(53:51):
balanced way for me to see what's popular what what's not yeah and helps recommending
the kids like it I think when kids come in looking especially the teens if they hear
that other teenagers have liked it they're more likely to pick the book up then the middle
(54:15):
age lady yeah thank you so much for coming on the podcast today Rachel it's been so
great having you love this conversation have learned so much going away with a long list
of books to buy excellent thank you for having me I could talk books with you all day every
day it's so much it's such a joy yeah I'm sure we'll have you back again sometime soon
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.