October 1, 2024 • 44 mins
Joe Grover sits down with serial entrepreneur, mother of four, and partnership specialist Lindsey Ivie. They discuss her journey as a leader in marketing, stories from the businesses she’s consulted, and why balance can fulfill both personal and professional commitments.
Lindsey is an expert in channel sales, partner management and ecosystem development through networking and events marketing. Lindsey identifies valuable company partnerships and creates environments where those relationships thrive in the most organic, natural and productive ways. She has established valuable relationships with tech giants like Microsoft and Cisco, as well as E Commerce focused tech brands like Klaviyo and EasyPost along with other broker partners for clients. Lindsey flips the script on boring webinars and tired networking events into compelling experiences that are engaging, lead generating powerhouses.
This episode was recorded on September 19th, 2024
-Links-
For Lindsey Ivie:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseyivie/
#WorkLifeBalance #Entrepreneurship #MarketingLeaders
Chapters
00:00:00 - Navigating Entrepreneurial Setbacks and Growth
00:08:37 - Sales Strategies for Startups
00:13:39 - Building Only Brands Platform and Marketplace
00:22:39 - Balancing Work and Family Life
00:30:26 - Embracing Failure and Learning Lessons
00:40:53 - Lessons From Entrepreneurial Failures and Growth
00:44:14 - Journey of Resilience and Growth
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Grover (00:00):
Like the biggest failure in my life would be like
failing my kids, like so itjust didn't seem to matter, like
as hard as that was to shut thedoors, and like we decided just
to like kind of let that happen.
I felt even more like questionsin my life.
I'm like am I really focused onwhat matters?
(00:20):
How can I create more balancein my life and not get fully
sucked into things that are likeconsuming my whole life?
Lindsey Ivie (00:27):
You're listening to the Real F Word, a podcast
that dives deep into therealities of entrepreneurial
failure, and each episodefeatures raw, unfiltered stories
from founders who havenavigated both the highs and
lows of startup life.
We'll discover the lessonslearned and the strength found
in facing setbacks head-on.
Welcome to the Real F4.
Lindsay, welcome, so excited tohave you here today.
Joe Grover (00:50):
Thanks for having me .
Lindsey Ivie (00:51):
And I'm excited to unpack some of your personal
experiences, both as a marketingleader, as a consultant and as
an entrepreneur trying to buildsomething, and then, finally,
you're putting together a reallyinteresting event.
So we're going to talk aboutall those things in the next 45
minutes.
Joe Grover (01:09):
Yes, sounds good.
Lindsey Ivie (01:09):
Tell me a little bit about Ivy League Growth and
how you, I think the early partof your consulting experience.
You engaged with threedifferent companies to help them
scale and they all ran intosome issues and, as we've talked
about this, there's somepatterns and some learning there
that I'd love to share yeah,yeah, so that's actually kind of
the.
Joe Grover (01:30):
How we began our consulting business was my
husband and I.
So, um, we started working on afew different startups together,
but it was more full-timebecause I like at the time, like
eight, nine years ago, likefractional CROs, cmos and those
type of things weren't as wellknown, like there weren't as
many companies that were doingthat um, so him and I both came
(01:54):
on like the first company westarted with um was a student
housing software.
So we were um, and that was likemy first time working with like
a SaaS company.
Before that I was working intelecom, so it was like you know
, slinging fiber and all thosefun things, um, but we were like
(02:17):
in it and we I was over a lotof the partnership stuff and he
was in the sales too.
So we were just like outknocking doors of like different
university um, uh, their, theirstudent housing buildings and
we were just like all over provo, because obviously there's a
lot there, um, and we got a lotof sales like lined up for them
(02:38):
and it was a really coolsoftware.
It was unique in what they weredoing, where you could go in
and you can book a room withyour other, like if you have
another roommate.
So usually it's like you'rebooking the whole space, but it
was like you could book the bed.
So that was kind of unique atthe time and it was because
(02:58):
front-facing the MVP andeverything looked amazing.
It was super polished, itlooked great.
It was really easy to lookedgreat.
It was really to get people oneasy, to get people on board.
Um, and we did, we did getquite like we.
We had a huge pipeline.
Lindsey Ivie (03:12):
You built the marketing strategy and the sales
strategy.
Yeah, the sales we werecrushing the sales.
Joe Grover (03:18):
But then it came time to onboard.
Uh, and I still have a littleptsd from some of that because,
um, it was a basically it waslike a clickable wireframe at
the time.
Um, so I remember sittinginside of like king hang, is it
like king henry?
(03:38):
Is that the student housethere's?
like one of the old yeah, down,down, in provo, in provo
watching people line up to likesign up for it or like just to
onboard, and every two secondsis breaking, breaking.
I was just sitting there likeshaking, like on the phone with
the dev team.
Lindsey Ivie (03:55):
It was completely falling apart because you sold
it before it had really beenbuilt yeah, um which, by the way
is not a bad strategy for anentrepreneur, unless you're
trying to do that outstrips yourability to build the product
Joe Grover (04:09):
so I just sat there and I was just watching like
everything fall apart in frontof me and I just I had to see it
like it's not only like it'sone thing to sell something, but
it's another thing tophysically be there and watch it
completely like not work andand there's nothing you can do
about it, and that was likereally a lot for me.
Um, but what had to happen inthis case is they brought in
(04:32):
like a dev team and they're likeokay, now you're selling soft,
like you're selling dev services, because they had to go and
build it but they also had tobring in revenue.
So our role switched fromselling the student housing
software to selling dev service.
Outsource dev developmentservices and that happened back
to back to back.
It's crazy, Like same exactsituation.
Lindsey Ivie (04:56):
And what was your role in the company then?
Were you a consultant?
Were you an owner?
Joe Grover (05:00):
I was a part of.
Yeah, we were like the first,basically the first sales people
yeah and so that happened againwith another company same story
same exact thing you.
Lindsey Ivie (05:12):
You sold it.
You got some early traction.
People were buying what?
You were selling, but then yep,when they turned it on it
didn't, it did not.
Yeah, the integration how badwas the experience.
Joe Grover (05:23):
One of them was rough because it affected
people's business in a big way.
Because of what it was.
I won't go into details on thatone, but it happened.
So it's crazy.
After three times of thathappening, I'm like okay, this
is a pattern.
Lindsey Ivie (05:43):
Three times in a row.
Joe Grover (05:45):
Three times in a row Same exact problem.
They had to bring it anin-house dev team.
We were then now selling devservices to like bring in
revenue, but it was the sameexact problem.
Lindsey Ivie (05:57):
And in each case they were trying to drive
revenue from both the productthey had built as well as
reselling dev services, whichwas way too early.
Joe Grover (06:03):
It wasn't working.
They needed well.
In a lot of ways, it was justhow it was built.
It needed to be built with anenterprise level, like software
development team.
Lindsey Ivie (06:14):
Why do you think that was?
Was it a function of theentrepreneurs and their kind of
technical capabilities?
You know?
Why do you think?
Because that's really unusualfor you to have the same
experience three times in a row.
It sounds like you crushed thesales and marketing piece.
Joe Grover (06:28):
Well, they had a good product I was excited about
it's like the product visionthe vision of well, yeah, to
specify, like the product wasn'tworking, but the vision of like
the problem it solved wasreally good.
Um, but in the in the same way.
In those cases, what I foundwas interesting in the pattern
of it is they all raised money.
(06:49):
So I feel like when it's notyour money coming out of your
pocket and you can just dump itinto different things, you're
not as thoughtful.
Lindsey Ivie (07:01):
Interesting.
Joe Grover (07:02):
In how it's built.
Lindsey Ivie (07:04):
There was money from angel investors.
Joe Grover (07:06):
Angel investors okay yeah, so it was enough to, like
you know, throw a couplehundred grand at like the
development and put into yourteam.
But that was the case in likeall three of them.
They had done that early raisebased on like their pitch right
an amazing.
Lindsey Ivie (07:24):
An amazing story, a vision, a problem to be solved
in the market.
And then ta-da, uh-oh, doesn'twork.
Joe Grover (07:30):
Yeah, which was it's just crazy?
Yeah, and I would imagine I'veheard this happens a lot Right.
Lindsey Ivie (07:37):
So it's interesting to break down.
Maybe the pattern is hey, likeyou oversold, right that you
sold something that reallywasn't ready for prime time.
Maybe because they had accessto outside money, they were a
little bit more aggressive atselling the product early right
To show some traction to thoseinvestors so they could raise
more money.
(07:57):
It also could be a question ofwhether or not early stage
startups should be product-ledgrowth or marketing-led growth.
Joe Grover (08:06):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (08:07):
You've had many experiences since then with
clients in your own startups.
Where, in your experience, haveyou seen the most success from
early stage technology startupsproduct-led growth or marketing
and sales-led growth?
Joe Grover (08:20):
That's a good question.
I think it depends on whatyou're selling In a lot of
places, like in the e-com space.
It's like marketing, right likeyou can sell.
If you have like the rightmarketing engine, you can sell
anything um.
But when it comes to like, therejust has to be the
(08:41):
functionality like it has towork, which it sounds sounds
crazy and sounds like a reallydumb thing to say, because it's
like well duh, why would yousell something that doesn't work
?
You'd be very surprised howmany people are out there
pre-selling a product that's notthere, and I feel like you
don't want to bring a sales teamon too soon.
If you're the founder, youshould be ready and prepared to
(09:05):
make those first sales until itworks.
Lindsey Ivie (09:09):
Because the founder is closer, maybe to the
product development and thefunctionality and the
capabilities than a salesperson,especially a hired guy, right.
Joe Grover (09:19):
Especially if they're not being truthful about
where the product is andthey're just like just go sell
it.
Sales will solve our problems.
Lindsey Ivie (09:24):
They'll, just they're just like, just go sell
it.
Yeah, sales will solve ourproblems.
Joe Grover (09:27):
They'll just solve all the problems.
We'll fix it as soon as theysell it and we can just make it
work.
Lindsey Ivie (09:33):
But you're threading a needle as an
entrepreneur because, likerevenue, does solve a lot of
problems and that earlyvalidation and traction is a
really strong signal that you'resolving the right problem and
customer feedback can helpperfect a product.
But if it's too early, right,it has the opposite effect,
right, which?
Is the blowback from customersreputation risk both for the
company and for the salespeopleand the team that are delivering
(09:56):
that.
Joe Grover (09:56):
Yeah, and I think, with one of these companies that
I was working with, like thisspecific, sorry, specific
statement like really, um, ledto what we are like with ivy
league.
Growth was like I wish I couldjust put you on pause and bring
you back on when things wereworking.
I'm like and you're a w-2employee, like you can't, yeah,
(10:19):
like there wasn't a way to dothat, and so that's where my
husband and I were like well,what if you could like, what if
we were fractional?
yeah and what if we can come inand you could get like a little
bit of our time.
Like right now you're not fullyprepared to go out and do the
sales piece but you do need helpfrom sales and you do need help
with marketing and you needhelp with building that out and
(10:41):
figuring out pricing andfiguring out all those different
things.
But you probably can't affordor you're not in a good position
to draw up like a ton of moneydown for a full-time person and
you're not ready for thatfull-time person.
And that's what really kind ofpushed us in the direction of
like doing the more fractionalwas because I'm like people need
(11:04):
this, like startups need theexpertise, but they they need it
on a budget and they don't needa full-time person.
That's right.
Lindsey Ivie (11:11):
So I mean, yeah, you're preaching the choir, yeah
.
Joe Grover (11:14):
I was like you get it right.
Lindsey Ivie (11:15):
And the reality is , is the flexibility that that
affords actually de-risks thejourney for the entrepreneur?
Because they can get access totalent and experience that they
wouldn't get access to otherwise, because they can't afford to
hire a full-time head of salesor VP of sales that has done
this three or four or five times, or a CMO that has done this,
you know, three or four times,and so they get access to a
(11:37):
caliber of talent they wouldn'thave otherwise.
But also the flexibility oflike, let's go out and sell a
little bit, let's build thego-to-market strategy, and if it
doesn't work, I don't have tofire someone, right, I can
throttle down.
I can turn it off, I can go backto the workshop, figure out my
product and then I can go backto market, and so I think that
flexibility is really important.
(11:57):
Fixed costs early in thestartup journey I have seen
create some bad decision making,because when you have high
fixed costs, then, you're like.
Well, I have to sell my waythrough it.
And if you're not ready todeliver the product, then you
have a bad customer experienceand that hurts retention and
reputation and it really isdangerous.
Um, if you hire too early orhire senior people too early
(12:22):
yeah so yeah it's a great, agreat insight.
You also have your own startupjourney and I'd love for you to
talk a little bit more aboutsharehouse and what was the
vision there and and what didyou learn from that experience
yeah, so like how far?
Joe Grover (12:39):
like what are we?
A year and a half.
So I came on full-time um toshare house.
Was it 20, 23?
Yeah, so last year, um, and Iwas in a position where they
were they were looking for likeanother co-founder to build it.
So the initial vision of it wasthey were actually like really
(13:02):
close to signing the paperworkon a big space for a co-working
3PL, essentially for e-commercebrands.
But that kind of shifted gearsin the earlier days of
Sharehouse.
And then they went more to likethe community.
So they were doing a lot oflike monthly community events.
Um, they did a big conferencelike an amazon conference, um,
(13:25):
before I got there and that wastruly like what they.
They had done a really good job.
They had like a goodestablished slack channel and
they had like a really goodfollowing that way.
But when I came on we kind ofsat down and we just like went
over, like okay, what are wedoing?
What are we spending our timedoing?
(13:46):
We need to make money.
Like we got to get a returnhere and initially I was like,
well, I think we need to shiftgears.
I was like they were doing liketwo to three free events a
month.
I'm like that's a lot of work.
Lindsey Ivie (14:01):
A lot of cost.
Joe Grover (14:03):
It's a lot of cost and you're chasing down smaller
sponsors Because your jam isevents and partnerships right.
It's funny that you say that.
I guess it is now, but Iactually have a lot of
experience more in buildingpartnerships.
But I think I've just kind offallen into that because I've
worked with a lot of startupswho are like, well, what are we
(14:24):
gonna do now?
Like we can do an event or wecan do whatever.
We have zero marketing budget,what are you gonna do?
Um, but we kind of shifted gearsand tried to focus on um, the
act, on the e-commerce foundersand the e-commerce decision
makers, and trying to createresources and events and
different things like that tohelp benefit them and help them
(14:48):
in their journey.
So it started off as like we itwas a joke initially.
The idea for Madeline, who wasmy co-founder, came up with the
name Only Brands.
She was like texting me she'slike what if we called it Only
Brands?
I'm like, yes, that's it,that's the name.
And it was initially just likea joke, like a text back and
(15:09):
forth.
But then it became somethingmuch bigger and just kind of
like a humorous part of what wewere building.
And that was more on the sideof like the community right,
like only brands was what webuilt out on the the event side
and what turned into taking,like a group of founders, to
(15:31):
Disneyland and the UFC fights.
Lindsey Ivie (15:34):
I heard that was a fantastic trip it was so heard
that from some clients.
Joe Grover (15:37):
It was so crazy, it was so fun, like that was my
favorite.
I've done Disney.
Lindsey Ivie (15:42):
I grew up in California, so like I've done
Disney a lot but going with agroup of like a mini mouse years
at the house.
Joe Grover (15:48):
Yeah, just people were just so open and like like
there's points where people werecrying and like opening up and
just having that experience withother people that are like on
the same journey as you, it wasreally cool.
It's cool and I'm like I havejust lasting relationships from
that.
So that was a really fun, funthing we got to do.
(16:09):
But outside of that, we wantedto build more of a platform and
that's where we were able topull together, um pull it off in
like a week.
It was crazy how quickly webuilt it out, but it I knew from
my experience of like you don'twant to dump a ton of money
into dev until you have itfigured out.
So we were able to kind of umuse existing tools and things to
(16:32):
like build it out initially,which was a platform where you
could book a time with ane-commerce expert, and it worked
.
Built it out on WordPress andit worked.
You could go in, you could booka time, the payments worked.
Lindsey Ivie (16:46):
That was all great .
It was all off the shelf.
Joe Grover (16:48):
All off the shelf.
Lindsey Ivie (16:49):
No proprietary dev .
Joe Grover (16:50):
No, there wasn't any .
Lindsey Ivie (16:52):
This is another great learning.
Joe Grover (16:53):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (16:54):
Just there's so much software available to us
today that I think entrepreneursfeel like if I don't build it
on my own and you know everyline of code is new then I'm not
creating something of value,and that's a fallacy.
Yeah, you should build thethings that aren't in the market
.
Build the integrations or thefunctionality that doesn't exist
.
Yeah, but why build another CRM?
(17:15):
Why build another schedulingtool?
There's, you know, we've gotproven tools that have been in
market for a long time yeah, Igot to know calmly really well
exactly like why build calendar?
Joe Grover (17:26):
I was like you literally can build an entire
company off of calendly, likeand we did wordpress and
calendly, you can do that.
Um, and yeah, that's what Ilearned from my learning
experiences from those earlystage startups was, like, we
could figure this out like, andthen we can do a proprietary one
once we have the funding andonce you've proven that.
Lindsey Ivie (17:42):
You've proven that people care like.
Joe Grover (17:44):
But we built it, it worked, pulled it off um and
then it was like the recruitingpiece.
I was on top of that.
We wanted to build amarketplace where people could
go um and when these mentorslike that were on the platform,
made like, referred otherservices to people like they
could get a residual affiliatemodel so I was also having calls
(18:07):
with like hundreds of differentpartners trying to line that up
and then trying to get thispiece done, so like it was all
coming together, I feel like itneeded.
Obviously, like with platformslike intro and things like that,
like a ton of marketing dollarsare getting dumped into those
to acquire new customers, whichwas where we were bootstrapping,
(18:27):
so that was a little tricky, soeverything was very marketed in
a way, with like very limitedbudget on that piece.
Lindsey Ivie (18:38):
So like no capital or very little capital to yeah,
so we were.
Joe Grover (18:43):
Yeah, it was.
It was definitely gettingbootstrapped like with that
piece Cause we were trying to besmart in the way like not
dumping more money intosomething, if we could kind of
like figure out how to just likegauge the interest potentially
raise later.
And then, but people wereinterested.
Lindsey Ivie (18:58):
Like you, started building this and marketplaces.
It's kind of a marketplace.
Joe Grover (19:01):
They're hard.
Marketplaces are the toughest,they're the hardest, yeah, right
.
Lindsey Ivie (19:05):
And where did you find more difficulty?
Was it getting the experts?
Was it getting the brands?
Like which part of the, whichside of the marketplace was the
most difficult to acquire?
Joe Grover (19:17):
users.
I think we had like a prettygood base of like experts on the
platform and those weren't ashard to get on.
It was just the marketing.
It's like getting to the marketwith what you have.
That's the hardest part I feellike um, because people got it,
though, like they clicked, likeit made sense to a lot of people
(19:38):
who are like, oh yeah, likethis is needed, but getting that
message to everyone is that'swhere there's typically like
bigger costs or just have to begrinded out.
I think a lot of it was in mymind.
I was like we just need to do alot of like personalized
outreach to people Like, hey,this is a new platform you can
use.
I found a lot of success indoing like the dirty work that
(20:03):
people don't want to do, butit's effective, like especially
with events.
Lindsey Ivie (20:06):
Yeah, one-to-one um, interesting, so what is that
?
Yeah, expand on that.
That's interesting.
Like what is the dirty workthat?
Joe Grover (20:10):
the dirty work is the laborious work that like
people want to do like one videoput, put it out there and then
it gets to everyone and everyonebuys what you're selling, which
that works really well.
But I think what I've foundlike over my years of like doing
events and helping with events,it's like personalized messages
, especially when you're newerand people don't know who you
(20:32):
are and they need to know whythey would be buying into what
you're doing.
Like it takes a text, it takesan email, it takes a lot of
those different things, and Ifelt like that's kind of where
we were at, where it's like okay, we're just going to have to do
the outbound.
Lindsey Ivie (20:47):
Yeah, it's so interesting because, like we're
throwing this event in two weeksand I'm just sitting and going
scrolling through all mycontacts and making text invites
.
And so I'm like sitting andgoing scrolling through all my
contacts and making text invites, so I'm like telling all my
partners I'm like, listen, thisis not about like a LinkedIn
post, this is about like just goinvite 50, 75, 100 people, and
(21:09):
a personal invite goes a longway.
It's that one-to-one you knowthat is really powerful, because
we're all just overloaded withso many marketing messages.
Joe Grover (21:16):
I get so many emails every day I don't check all my
emails, no.
And then I'm not bought in,like, I'm not bought into your
newsletter.
I'm sorry I get so manynewsletters, but you have people
like and a lot of times they'relike well, why should I go?
And then you like they're notgoing to be able to ask that in
(21:36):
a one-to-one message, but that's, I think, more and more like
marketing people, because we getso bombarded with like ads and
all these different emails anddifferent things, like I just
feel I don't feel a connectionto that.
I think more and more peopleare going to look for a
one-to-one connection.
Lindsey Ivie (21:56):
I totally agree One-to-one is powerful right.
In an environment whereeverything is one-to-many.
So, tell me a little bit about,like, how you were feeling at
this moment.
Like you're seeing earlytraction with Sharehouse.
Yeah, you're spending 12 hoursa day.
Yeah 15 hours.
I mean it takes a lot of timeto build a business.
And then what happened?
Joe Grover (22:21):
I'm to build a business.
And and then what happened?
Um, not getting into too manydetails, um, there's just some
differences in the, thepartnership that kind of led to
us deciding we needed to shutthe doors.
Like we did have an opportunityto like they were generous and
like, hey, you can, you can takeit over and keep running with
it.
But I was just, I was kind ofcontemplating, like I think a
(22:46):
lot of times like so much of ouridentity is in what we're
building at work, but then welose sight of what, what's
happening at home.
And in reality, that whole yearI was like, going through the
motions of my life, that thethings that like really mattered
, which were like I literally Ihad my four kids, I have four
(23:07):
kids, so I have six, so I andyou, you get it.
Yeah, it's a lot so, and at thetime I, in order to like pull
off a full day's work, I wasgetting four kids out the door
at like 7 45 every day, and thenI wouldn't see them till like 5
30 that night, like.
(23:28):
I would like do the loop, pickthem up on the way home then
you're back on your computer atnight after the kids go.
Yeah, you know, yeah becauseyou're always doing something
like, so you're never fully likedisconnected.
And even though I had thatopportunity to like I could take
this, I could like keep goingwith it, but then I don't know,
my kids are young and I just waslike I I feel like I've
(23:50):
forgotten, like the biggestfailure in my life would be like
failing my kids.
Right, like so it just didn'tseem to matter, like as hard as
that was to shut the doors andlike we decided just to like
kind of let that happen.
(24:10):
I felt even more like questionsin my life.
I'm like am I really focused onwhat matters?
How can I create more balancein my life and not get fully
sucked into things that are likeconsuming my whole life?
And that's kind of whathappened, right, I, I did that.
I allowed myself to to get, andit's hard for me to to like set
(24:35):
boundaries with myself.
When I get really excited aboutthings I'm working on and I get
really involved.
I have a really hard time likesetting boundaries and in my
mind I'm like, oh, I'm doing allthis good stuff, but then I'm
like, but am I like who's who'snot getting my time?
Like who's not getting myattention?
Um, I think that's where I Idecided for myself is like I
(24:58):
know if I continue down thispath with this project, it's
gonna take a lot of my and mykids are so young.
Right now I don't feel likethat's what I want to do with my
life right now.
Lindsey Ivie (25:09):
It's a really tough decision to make, but
maybe not so tough when youreally put it in perspective,
right Like the fear you had offailure was probably you had a
greater fear that you would failin the thing that mattered the
very most, which is your role asa parent, as a mother, versus
failing at a startup.
Joe Grover (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I think it kind of goes back to.
Even so, my dad was anentrepreneur and I feel like a
lot of that like entrepreneurspirit is like in me.
But he passed away, um, when Iwas 20, and it was um after I
(25:55):
hadn't seen him for like a wholemonth.
He was working 20 hour days.
He was doing a big project upin Washington for Costco, like
sealing the flooring.
Um, and I hadn't seen him forlike and when, when I did see
him after his like 20 hour workdays and getting like three
(26:17):
hours of sleep in the car, hejust looked like dead inside.
I don't know how to explain it.
Like he he very much was likedriven, wanting to be an
entrepreneur, wanting to do allthe things to help support his
family.
And then, you know, the nextsecond I'm he's gone.
You know he, he died in anaccident on his way to that
(26:43):
project he was working on.
Sorry, I think we just needthose reminders and I think he
(27:04):
is constantly reminding me thosereminders and I think he is
constantly reminding me ofwhat's important, because I
think if he could go back intime, he wouldn't.
That's not where he would wantto put his time Right, even
though like he would want tohave more time with his family,
right 100%.
So that was the reminder,because you get so focused and
(27:30):
you get so sucked into whateveryou're doing and at the end of
the day, it's like true failureis failing your family, right?
Like the whole purpose ofworking and building is so we
can grow as a person, but it'sso we can support our family.
That's the whole reason, islike that's why we go to work
every day.
(27:50):
So I'm grateful that I do stillhave like I feel like there is
a purpose to my drive of beingan entrepreneur and and wanting
to do the things I do.
But I think you just have tocheck yourself sometimes.
Lindsey Ivie (28:05):
Yeah, thank you so much for being so vulnerable
and open about something that'sso personal.
And I find myself sitting hereas a father right and asking
myself the question is the costworth the reward?
Joe Grover (28:21):
Mm-hmm.
Lindsey Ivie (28:23):
And maybe I'll just look at the audience and
the listeners and just say maybethis is your time to reflect on
whether or not your journey inentrepreneurship is worth it,
because there's a lot of waysyou can make money and fulfill
your ambitions and provide for afamily, and entrepreneurship
(28:46):
takes a level of sacrifice, time, emotional energy, focus.
That is unusual.
It's not a nine to five, and soI love that you kind of surface
this.
This whole idea of failure inyour family is the worst kind.
(29:09):
Yeah, failure.
Failure in business is, is notit's.
Joe Grover (29:15):
It's truly not.
Yeah, like after we shut thedoors of share house, I'll be
honest, I was like Idisconnected from social media.
I was like I disappeared forlike three months because I had
to still process it, becauseit's a loss, like when you build
something and then you don'thave it anymore.
There's a loss there, like, soI felt that loss why did you
(29:36):
disconnect from social media?
Lindsey Ivie (29:37):
talk to me about like was it?
Was it shame, was itembarrassment, was it just you
were overwhelmed, I just didn.
Embarrassment, was it?
Joe Grover (29:43):
just you were overwhelmed, I just didn't.
I think it was just a littlebit of both, probably.
I think there's my identity.
It's no longer there, you know.
So you're just like well, whoam I?
I think it was finding myselfagain, cause I I gave myself to
this and now I had to take astep back and be like nope,
that's not who I am, that that'snot who.
I am.
That is not who I am.
(30:04):
Like.
Who am I?
I think that's a hard question.
Like and that's something wecan all ask ourselves is like
who are you outside of yourbusiness?
That's right.
Like, if you can't answer thatquestion, I would invite you to
take a step back and, like,really dig deep and figure out
who you are, because that couldbe gone in a second.
Lindsey Ivie (30:26):
What's up, phil fans, you know, as we've
listened to so many guests onthis podcast, that the road to
success is often paved withfailure, with a lot of
challenges and even full-on faceplants.
But there's a thing that youcould do to help skip some of
those bumps and bruises, andthat's really where the
consultants at Amplio come in.
See, amplio offers fractionalexecutives in finance, marketing
(30:50):
and HR, and these are peoplewho've experienced a lot.
They've been in the trenches,they've built businesses,
they've failed.
But here's the kicker They'velearned from those failures and
now they're applying all thatwisdom to your business to
support you.
So you don't have to learn thehard way.
I mean, think about it.
Instead of stumbling around inthe dark and hoping you don't
hit the wall, you could bringsomeone in who's already mapped
(31:12):
out that room right.
Amplio consultants and expertshave worked with and for
numerous companies of all sizesand they've gathered insights on
what works and where to focusand how to actually grow your
business efficiently.
So while we embrace failure onthis podcast, there is no rule
that says you have to fail ateverything yourself.
So check out Amplio and see howtheir fractional executives can
(31:36):
help your business move forwardand avoid those painful
learning curves.
Sometimes the smartest move islearning from someone else's
failure.
Visit ampliocom.
Joe Grover (31:46):
Businesses will come and go.
Lindsey Ivie (31:47):
Yeah, and I I we've talked about this with
other entrepreneurs we, when ouridentity and our feelings of
worth and value are inseparablytied and connected with our
title and our role as a founder,a CEO or a CMO or whatever our
role is in our company, we setourselves up for a lot more pain
(32:09):
than is necessary Because thesecond we're not a CEO or a
founder or a successfulentrepreneur or a fast 50 event,
then we feel like we're notworth anything or our value to
society, to our community, toour friends has somehow been
diminished yeah so it's easy tosay that it's hard to do it.
(32:30):
So what?
How have you decoupled yourrole as a entrepreneur with your
sense of self-worth?
Joe Grover (32:39):
um, I think it's actually helped that I've kind
of done less if that makes senseLike I'm not at every event,
I'm not, like I'm very selectivein where I spend my time,
because I feel like I don't haveto show face anymore, like it's
just like being more thoughtful, because I know that that time
(33:00):
spent there is time spent awayfrom my family.
So I have like taken a hugestep back.
I used to be at like everynetworking event.
I used to be at a lot morethings, but I think I'm just a
lot more thoughtful in where Ispend my time.
Lindsey Ivie (33:14):
I think that's there's this FOMO as an
entrepreneur and a founder,where you're like.
I mean, I had an event lastnight I should have been at, and
I'm just.
I was feeling guilt around that, as you know seven o'clock and
I was like I should really bethere.
It's down in Utah County,there's amazing people there,
amazing speakers, and I wasn'tthere.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I'm like I'm not doing my
job, I'm not representing thebrand I'm not building if I'm
(33:36):
not present, but but guess what,I'm not representing my real
job.
I'm not impacting the peoplethat matter most when I'm not
present with my children, and soit's.
You know we have to pick ourplaces, yeah, as entrepreneurs,
(34:05):
around where we spend our time.
Otherwise, every hour of everyday will get filled with things
that seem important in themoment, which may or may not be
highest impact, bring us themost joy and help us succeed in
life outside of work.
Joe Grover (34:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (34:16):
So it's really you know.
Unfortunately, you and I areprobably having to learn this
the hard way.
Yeah, but at least we learn.
Joe Grover (34:22):
That's the whole point of life, right.
It's to learn Like if you're,if you're taking a step back and
you're allowing yourself tolike learn from these things
like that's.
I think that's the whole pointof existing Right.
Lindsey Ivie (34:33):
What's your key learning from the share house
experience?
Joe Grover (34:40):
What's the piece?
I think, um, where I'm at in mylife now with my kids, the age
they are.
I don't want to put myself in aposition where I spend that
much time away from them.
I know that's probably not likethe business answer you're
looking for, but but for me it'slike um, and then, yeah, I
(35:06):
think that's probably thebiggest thing, what I needed to
learn from that is the priorityI needed to put in place and,
like I can still be anentrepreneur, I can still build,
but I can maybe be a littlemore thoughtful in what I'm
building and how I'm building itand what where I'm spending my
(35:27):
time what any learning aroundpartnerships?
Lindsey Ivie (35:31):
partnerships are hard.
I see so many co-founders goingto business together and it's
exciting on day one, andsometimes misalignment or
personality conflicts yeah the,the thing that craters the
business.
Joe Grover (35:44):
I wouldn't say this like share house would like that
was.
There was the personality,different things that played out
there.
But like overall, like I had areally good experience from that
and I'm grateful for what Ilearned and I'm grateful for the
opportunity that I got to likeI feel like I got an MBA in
(36:06):
building that like there's somuch I learned and so many
incredible relationships I madefrom being there and I think it
was I was meant to do that, likeI was meant to spend that time
doing that.
I'm grateful for that.
But I would say, like in otherventures I've done in the past,
is to always get things inwriting, because I've had
(36:30):
businesses taken from under methrough an email because
somebody owned the domain that Ididn't have access to and I
didn't have anything in writingto protect me from that.
Lindsey Ivie (36:42):
Yeah, it's a great finding.
We need to have trustingrelationships with our partners,
but it's also helpful to getthings in writing, because I've
seen too many times wherethere's a handshake agreement
and then, when things get hardor things are going great, those
handshake agreements getrewritten in ways that can be
really damaging to the businessand to the entrepreneurs.
Joe Grover (37:00):
I think I heard a saying it's like you keep honest
people honest when you get itin writing because I, at the end
of the day, like we, thingswill happen and you don't know
what's happening behind thescenes with that.
Your partner like what?
Like they're dealing with athome if they're having like
financial strain, what's leadingthem to act the way they're
(37:22):
acting?
But you're keeping them honestif you have it in writing.
I like that keeping honestpeople honest.
You have it in writing.
Lindsey Ivie (37:26):
I like that Keeping honest people honest.
Yeah, I remember when weconnected, I was fascinated by
this event because I was just inthe process of launching the
podcast.
Joe Grover (37:34):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (37:34):
So tell me about Failed Fest.
What was the inspiration forthis?
Maybe what you've talked abouttoday?
Joe Grover (37:39):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (37:39):
But what was the inspiration?
What's the format?
Tell me more about Failed Fest.
Joe Grover (37:43):
Yeah, so it's actually.
It was like two years ago.
I was at lunch with my husbandand we had like a few other
people there my friend, um Sarah, was there as well and we were
just kind of joking around likethere are typical conferences in
Utah.
It's always like people gettinginterviewed, these super
successful founders, and you'rejust hearing like all the things
(38:07):
they did right and like all thethings they did well, and then
we just were joking around likewhat if we had fail fest?
and it was like everyone'sfailures and instead of like, um
, we have like a couch and atherapist and they're like
interviewing the founder of likeall the things you haven't
heard about, like behind thescenes, like all the failures
that happened that led to theirsuccesses, and then just we were
(38:30):
just kind of spiraling and wecan have the graveyard of failed
products and like all thesedifferent fun things.
And I kind of sat on that for awhile and I think after my
experience with ShareHouse,where I was like I felt it a
little deeper.
I'm like I think a lot ofpeople need to hear from people
they look up to like what'sreally happening behind the
(38:53):
scenes.
That's right.
That led them to where they aretoday.
So it's been like a work inprogress.
We were we're shooting forOctober, but I was pretty, I was
pulled into a really big eventthat took a lot of my time,
which was phenomenal.
Yeah, so I'm I'm looking at afew new dates for that.
(39:14):
So and we have some thingsleading up to I want to build
more of a community around itand have like once a month
panels, not just one big thing.
So I'm trying to break thatdown and kind of because I want
people to have access to it moreoften than like once a year,
like one big conference where wecould have these conversations
more openly.
Lindsey Ivie (39:31):
I think they're so valuable.
That's why I launched thepodcast and that's why I'm so
grateful you came on to sharethat because we need to hear
kind of the unvarnished versionsof these entrepreneurial
stories, not just to like helpentrepreneurs who are navigating
the complex emotional andfinancial implications of a
failed business, but also tohelp entrepreneurs that are
(39:52):
thinking, hey, I want to startmy own company and I'm reading
Entrepreneur Magazine and FastCompany and LinkedIn.
I'm watching LinkedIn and allthese entrepreneurs are making
it and the reality is it's likeno, most of the entrepreneurs
are not making it even when itseems like they're doing well.
The cost of that and theeventual outcomes in most cases
are closing the doors.
(40:13):
The experience you had and thatI've had and unless we talk
about that and destigmatizefailure, then I feel like we're
just going to be glorifying theIPOs and you know all the
success stories and reallythat's not the most probable
outcome.
Joe Grover (40:30):
Yeah, and I wonder if there's more people being
open about even like those threestartups I worked with like
don't do this, like this willmake you fail.
Like how many companies will bemore successful if we're more
open about like things to avoid?
Like don't do this.
Lindsey Ivie (40:49):
At episode 100 of the F word, if we get there.
Joe Grover (40:52):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (40:53):
I want to just take all of the patterns and all
of the learnings and thestories and just like to still
it down into like a guide.
Like here are the hundredthings that you should never do,
and maybe it's 10 things, but,like, here are the things you
should be aware of.
Here are the hundred thingsthat you should never do, and
maybe it's 10 things, but, butlike, here are the things you
should be aware of.
Here are the pitfalls.
Right, here are the things thatentrepreneurs, over and over
(41:14):
and over again, have had tolearn the hard way.
And you don't have to learn thehard way.
It's also the reason why yourengagement with a company is so
beneficial as a as a consultant,is you can help say whoa, whoa,
whoa.
I've seen this, I've seen thisbefore.
Joe Grover (41:28):
You don't want to do this.
Lindsey Ivie (41:30):
Like let's not go sell that product 10,000 times
when like it doesn't work.
Joe Grover (41:35):
Right, it's vaporware.
Lindsey Ivie (41:36):
Yep.
So, lindsay, this has been soinsightful.
Yeah, what?
What would you share with anentrepreneur?
Both your perspective as aconsultant, having worked with
lots of companies that aregrowing and scaling, as a
co-founder of a company that hadto shut its doors, and as a
mother?
What would you share with anentrepreneur?
Joe Grover (41:55):
I would share that it's so important to not try to
do everything yourself like to.
It's to lean on friends andmentors and people to help you
through those hard times, andsometimes that means like taking
a step back.
I think it's so hard.
You get sucked into what you'rebuilding and doing and it might
(42:17):
be just destroying your life.
Right, and maybe it's it's okayto fail and I think that's a
hard time or hard thing to hearis like nobody wants to fail,
nobody wants to feel like afailure.
But even through shutting thedoors of the companies I've had
to to work with and I've seenthe doors shut up um, you can.
(42:40):
I've learned so much and I amthe person who I am today and
like I have the experience in mycareer that I have because I
was, I took a chance and Ilearned from that.
But I'm not a failure becausethings didn't work out.
Maybe that's the biggest thing.
It's like you're not a failureand just even if you you're in a
dark place and you feel like umgiving up and you you feel like
(43:03):
you've just failed ateverything.
Just think of all the thingsyou've just failed at everything
.
Just think of all the thingsyou've gained and learned from
those experiences that havecreated growth in you and the
person you are today.
Lindsey Ivie (43:16):
I love that, that you have failed, but you are not
a failure, yeah.
Joe Grover (43:21):
That's okay, I have failed.
I have failed so many times.
Lindsey Ivie (43:39):
I have failed.
I have failed so many times butthinking through all those
times, I've grown so much as acompany.
And I said he was the CEO and Ihad just come off a stint as a
CEO.
That was really tough.
And I looked at him I said it'sreally lonely to be the CEO.
And he said no, it's not.
And I was like I had just methim and I was like whoa, and he
said it's not lonely.
It's not lonely if you surroundyourself by people that you
(44:02):
trust and you share that load.
The success and failure of thisbusiness will not rest on me
alone, and that was such aprofound moment in my career.
Joe Grover (44:10):
And.
Lindsey Ivie (44:10):
I've never said that the job of a CEO is lonely.
There were moments, many yearsinto that journey, that we
talked about that conversation.
I think there was moments hedid feel the loneliness and I
reminded him it's not lonely ifyou lean on us your management
team and you lean on mentors andyour family, so that's amazing.
Joe Grover (44:30):
I'm Lindsay Ivey.
I failed, but I am not afailure.
Lindsey Ivie (44:35):
Thanks for tuning in to the Real F Word.
The Real F Word is failure, andremember that failure is a
stepping stone, it's not just astumbling block to
StumblingBlock.
Join us next time as wecontinue to explore the journey
of resilience and growth,without ignoring the true cost
personally, professionally andfinancially that comes with
failure.
Keep learning, keep growing andkeep embracing the real stories
of entrepreneurship.
(44:56):
See you next time.
Like the biggest failure in my life would be like
failing my kids, like so itjust didn't seem to matter, like
as hard as that was to shut thedoors, and like we decided just
to like kind of let that happen.
I felt even more like questionsin my life.
I'm like am I really focused onwhat matters?
(00:20):
How can I create more balancein my life and not get fully
sucked into things that are likeconsuming my whole life?
Lindsey Ivie (00:27):
You're listening to the Real F Word, a podcast
that dives deep into therealities of entrepreneurial
failure, and each episodefeatures raw, unfiltered stories
from founders who havenavigated both the highs and
lows of startup life.
We'll discover the lessonslearned and the strength found
in facing setbacks head-on.
Welcome to the Real F4.
Lindsay, welcome, so excited tohave you here today.
Joe Grover (00:50):
Thanks for having me .
Lindsey Ivie (00:51):
And I'm excited to unpack some of your personal
experiences, both as a marketingleader, as a consultant and as
an entrepreneur trying to buildsomething, and then, finally,
you're putting together a reallyinteresting event.
So we're going to talk aboutall those things in the next 45
minutes.
Joe Grover (01:09):
Yes, sounds good.
Lindsey Ivie (01:09):
Tell me a little bit about Ivy League Growth and
how you, I think the early partof your consulting experience.
You engaged with threedifferent companies to help them
scale and they all ran intosome issues and, as we've talked
about this, there's somepatterns and some learning there
that I'd love to share yeah,yeah, so that's actually kind of
the.
Joe Grover (01:30):
How we began our consulting business was my
husband and I.
So, um, we started working on afew different startups together,
but it was more full-timebecause I like at the time, like
eight, nine years ago, likefractional CROs, cmos and those
type of things weren't as wellknown, like there weren't as
many companies that were doingthat um, so him and I both came
(01:54):
on like the first company westarted with um was a student
housing software.
So we were um, and that was likemy first time working with like
a SaaS company.
Before that I was working intelecom, so it was like you know
, slinging fiber and all thosefun things, um, but we were like
(02:17):
in it and we I was over a lotof the partnership stuff and he
was in the sales too.
So we were just like outknocking doors of like different
university um, uh, their, theirstudent housing buildings and
we were just like all over provo, because obviously there's a
lot there, um, and we got a lotof sales like lined up for them
(02:38):
and it was a really coolsoftware.
It was unique in what they weredoing, where you could go in
and you can book a room withyour other, like if you have
another roommate.
So usually it's like you'rebooking the whole space, but it
was like you could book the bed.
So that was kind of unique atthe time and it was because
(02:58):
front-facing the MVP andeverything looked amazing.
It was super polished, itlooked great.
It was really easy to lookedgreat.
It was really to get people oneasy, to get people on board.
Um, and we did, we did getquite like we.
We had a huge pipeline.
Lindsey Ivie (03:12):
You built the marketing strategy and the sales
strategy.
Yeah, the sales we werecrushing the sales.
Joe Grover (03:18):
But then it came time to onboard.
Uh, and I still have a littleptsd from some of that because,
um, it was a basically it waslike a clickable wireframe at
the time.
Um, so I remember sittinginside of like king hang, is it
like king henry?
(03:38):
Is that the student housethere's?
like one of the old yeah, down,down, in provo, in provo
watching people line up to likesign up for it or like just to
onboard, and every two secondsis breaking, breaking.
I was just sitting there likeshaking, like on the phone with
the dev team.
Lindsey Ivie (03:55):
It was completely falling apart because you sold
it before it had really beenbuilt yeah, um which, by the way
is not a bad strategy for anentrepreneur, unless you're
trying to do that outstrips yourability to build the product
Joe Grover (04:09):
so I just sat there and I was just watching like
everything fall apart in frontof me and I just I had to see it
like it's not only like it'sone thing to sell something, but
it's another thing tophysically be there and watch it
completely like not work andand there's nothing you can do
about it, and that was likereally a lot for me.
Um, but what had to happen inthis case is they brought in
(04:32):
like a dev team and they're likeokay, now you're selling soft,
like you're selling dev services, because they had to go and
build it but they also had tobring in revenue.
So our role switched fromselling the student housing
software to selling dev service.
Outsource dev developmentservices and that happened back
to back to back.
It's crazy, Like same exactsituation.
Lindsey Ivie (04:56):
And what was your role in the company then?
Were you a consultant?
Were you an owner?
Joe Grover (05:00):
I was a part of.
Yeah, we were like the first,basically the first sales people
yeah and so that happened againwith another company same story
same exact thing you.
Lindsey Ivie (05:12):
You sold it.
You got some early traction.
People were buying what?
You were selling, but then yep,when they turned it on it
didn't, it did not.
Yeah, the integration how badwas the experience.
Joe Grover (05:23):
One of them was rough because it affected
people's business in a big way.
Because of what it was.
I won't go into details on thatone, but it happened.
So it's crazy.
After three times of thathappening, I'm like okay, this
is a pattern.
Lindsey Ivie (05:43):
Three times in a row.
Joe Grover (05:45):
Three times in a row Same exact problem.
They had to bring it anin-house dev team.
We were then now selling devservices to like bring in
revenue, but it was the sameexact problem.
Lindsey Ivie (05:57):
And in each case they were trying to drive
revenue from both the productthey had built as well as
reselling dev services, whichwas way too early.
Joe Grover (06:03):
It wasn't working.
They needed well.
In a lot of ways, it was justhow it was built.
It needed to be built with anenterprise level, like software
development team.
Lindsey Ivie (06:14):
Why do you think that was?
Was it a function of theentrepreneurs and their kind of
technical capabilities?
You know?
Why do you think?
Because that's really unusualfor you to have the same
experience three times in a row.
It sounds like you crushed thesales and marketing piece.
Joe Grover (06:28):
Well, they had a good product I was excited about
it's like the product visionthe vision of well, yeah, to
specify, like the product wasn'tworking, but the vision of like
the problem it solved wasreally good.
Um, but in the in the same way.
In those cases, what I foundwas interesting in the pattern
of it is they all raised money.
(06:49):
So I feel like when it's notyour money coming out of your
pocket and you can just dump itinto different things, you're
not as thoughtful.
Lindsey Ivie (07:01):
Interesting.
Joe Grover (07:02):
In how it's built.
Lindsey Ivie (07:04):
There was money from angel investors.
Joe Grover (07:06):
Angel investors okay yeah, so it was enough to, like
you know, throw a couplehundred grand at like the
development and put into yourteam.
But that was the case in likeall three of them.
They had done that early raisebased on like their pitch right
an amazing.
Lindsey Ivie (07:24):
An amazing story, a vision, a problem to be solved
in the market.
And then ta-da, uh-oh, doesn'twork.
Joe Grover (07:30):
Yeah, which was it's just crazy?
Yeah, and I would imagine I'veheard this happens a lot Right.
Lindsey Ivie (07:37):
So it's interesting to break down.
Maybe the pattern is hey, likeyou oversold, right that you
sold something that reallywasn't ready for prime time.
Maybe because they had accessto outside money, they were a
little bit more aggressive atselling the product early right
To show some traction to thoseinvestors so they could raise
more money.
(07:57):
It also could be a question ofwhether or not early stage
startups should be product-ledgrowth or marketing-led growth.
Joe Grover (08:06):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (08:07):
You've had many experiences since then with
clients in your own startups.
Where, in your experience, haveyou seen the most success from
early stage technology startupsproduct-led growth or marketing
and sales-led growth?
Joe Grover (08:20):
That's a good question.
I think it depends on whatyou're selling In a lot of
places, like in the e-com space.
It's like marketing, right likeyou can sell.
If you have like the rightmarketing engine, you can sell
anything um.
But when it comes to like, therejust has to be the
(08:41):
functionality like it has towork, which it sounds sounds
crazy and sounds like a reallydumb thing to say, because it's
like well duh, why would yousell something that doesn't work
?
You'd be very surprised howmany people are out there
pre-selling a product that's notthere, and I feel like you
don't want to bring a sales teamon too soon.
If you're the founder, youshould be ready and prepared to
(09:05):
make those first sales until itworks.
Lindsey Ivie (09:09):
Because the founder is closer, maybe to the
product development and thefunctionality and the
capabilities than a salesperson,especially a hired guy, right.
Joe Grover (09:19):
Especially if they're not being truthful about
where the product is andthey're just like just go sell
it.
Sales will solve our problems.
Lindsey Ivie (09:24):
They'll, just they're just like, just go sell
it.
Yeah, sales will solve ourproblems.
Joe Grover (09:27):
They'll just solve all the problems.
We'll fix it as soon as theysell it and we can just make it
work.
Lindsey Ivie (09:33):
But you're threading a needle as an
entrepreneur because, likerevenue, does solve a lot of
problems and that earlyvalidation and traction is a
really strong signal that you'resolving the right problem and
customer feedback can helpperfect a product.
But if it's too early, right,it has the opposite effect,
right, which?
Is the blowback from customersreputation risk both for the
company and for the salespeopleand the team that are delivering
(09:56):
that.
Joe Grover (09:56):
Yeah, and I think, with one of these companies that
I was working with, like thisspecific, sorry, specific
statement like really, um, ledto what we are like with ivy
league.
Growth was like I wish I couldjust put you on pause and bring
you back on when things wereworking.
I'm like and you're a w-2employee, like you can't, yeah,
(10:19):
like there wasn't a way to dothat, and so that's where my
husband and I were like well,what if you could like, what if
we were fractional?
yeah and what if we can come inand you could get like a little
bit of our time.
Like right now you're not fullyprepared to go out and do the
sales piece but you do need helpfrom sales and you do need help
with marketing and you needhelp with building that out and
(10:41):
figuring out pricing andfiguring out all those different
things.
But you probably can't affordor you're not in a good position
to draw up like a ton of moneydown for a full-time person and
you're not ready for thatfull-time person.
And that's what really kind ofpushed us in the direction of
like doing the more fractionalwas because I'm like people need
(11:04):
this, like startups need theexpertise, but they they need it
on a budget and they don't needa full-time person.
That's right.
Lindsey Ivie (11:11):
So I mean, yeah, you're preaching the choir, yeah
.
Joe Grover (11:14):
I was like you get it right.
Lindsey Ivie (11:15):
And the reality is , is the flexibility that that
affords actually de-risks thejourney for the entrepreneur?
Because they can get access totalent and experience that they
wouldn't get access to otherwise, because they can't afford to
hire a full-time head of salesor VP of sales that has done
this three or four or five times, or a CMO that has done this,
you know, three or four times,and so they get access to a
(11:37):
caliber of talent they wouldn'thave otherwise.
But also the flexibility oflike, let's go out and sell a
little bit, let's build thego-to-market strategy, and if it
doesn't work, I don't have tofire someone, right, I can
throttle down.
I can turn it off, I can go backto the workshop, figure out my
product and then I can go backto market, and so I think that
flexibility is really important.
(11:57):
Fixed costs early in thestartup journey I have seen
create some bad decision making,because when you have high
fixed costs, then, you're like.
Well, I have to sell my waythrough it.
And if you're not ready todeliver the product, then you
have a bad customer experienceand that hurts retention and
reputation and it really isdangerous.
Um, if you hire too early orhire senior people too early
(12:22):
yeah so yeah it's a great, agreat insight.
You also have your own startupjourney and I'd love for you to
talk a little bit more aboutsharehouse and what was the
vision there and and what didyou learn from that experience
yeah, so like how far?
Joe Grover (12:39):
like what are we?
A year and a half.
So I came on full-time um toshare house.
Was it 20, 23?
Yeah, so last year, um, and Iwas in a position where they
were they were looking for likeanother co-founder to build it.
So the initial vision of it wasthey were actually like really
(13:02):
close to signing the paperworkon a big space for a co-working
3PL, essentially for e-commercebrands.
But that kind of shifted gearsin the earlier days of
Sharehouse.
And then they went more to likethe community.
So they were doing a lot oflike monthly community events.
Um, they did a big conferencelike an amazon conference, um,
(13:25):
before I got there and that wastruly like what they.
They had done a really good job.
They had like a goodestablished slack channel and
they had like a really goodfollowing that way.
But when I came on we kind ofsat down and we just like went
over, like okay, what are wedoing?
What are we spending our timedoing?
(13:46):
We need to make money.
Like we got to get a returnhere and initially I was like,
well, I think we need to shiftgears.
I was like they were doing liketwo to three free events a
month.
I'm like that's a lot of work.
Lindsey Ivie (14:01):
A lot of cost.
Joe Grover (14:03):
It's a lot of cost and you're chasing down smaller
sponsors Because your jam isevents and partnerships right.
It's funny that you say that.
I guess it is now, but Iactually have a lot of
experience more in buildingpartnerships.
But I think I've just kind offallen into that because I've
worked with a lot of startupswho are like, well, what are we
(14:24):
gonna do now?
Like we can do an event or wecan do whatever.
We have zero marketing budget,what are you gonna do?
Um, but we kind of shifted gearsand tried to focus on um, the
act, on the e-commerce foundersand the e-commerce decision
makers, and trying to createresources and events and
different things like that tohelp benefit them and help them
(14:48):
in their journey.
So it started off as like we itwas a joke initially.
The idea for Madeline, who wasmy co-founder, came up with the
name Only Brands.
She was like texting me she'slike what if we called it Only
Brands?
I'm like, yes, that's it,that's the name.
And it was initially just likea joke, like a text back and
(15:09):
forth.
But then it became somethingmuch bigger and just kind of
like a humorous part of what wewere building.
And that was more on the sideof like the community right,
like only brands was what webuilt out on the the event side
and what turned into taking,like a group of founders, to
(15:31):
Disneyland and the UFC fights.
Lindsey Ivie (15:34):
I heard that was a fantastic trip it was so heard
that from some clients.
Joe Grover (15:37):
It was so crazy, it was so fun, like that was my
favorite.
I've done Disney.
Lindsey Ivie (15:42):
I grew up in California, so like I've done
Disney a lot but going with agroup of like a mini mouse years
at the house.
Joe Grover (15:48):
Yeah, just people were just so open and like like
there's points where people werecrying and like opening up and
just having that experience withother people that are like on
the same journey as you, it wasreally cool.
It's cool and I'm like I havejust lasting relationships from
that.
So that was a really fun, funthing we got to do.
(16:09):
But outside of that, we wantedto build more of a platform and
that's where we were able topull together, um pull it off in
like a week.
It was crazy how quickly webuilt it out, but it I knew from
my experience of like you don'twant to dump a ton of money
into dev until you have itfigured out.
So we were able to kind of umuse existing tools and things to
(16:32):
like build it out initially,which was a platform where you
could book a time with ane-commerce expert, and it worked
.
Built it out on WordPress andit worked.
You could go in, you could booka time, the payments worked.
Lindsey Ivie (16:46):
That was all great .
It was all off the shelf.
Joe Grover (16:48):
All off the shelf.
Lindsey Ivie (16:49):
No proprietary dev .
Joe Grover (16:50):
No, there wasn't any .
Lindsey Ivie (16:52):
This is another great learning.
Joe Grover (16:53):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (16:54):
Just there's so much software available to us
today that I think entrepreneursfeel like if I don't build it
on my own and you know everyline of code is new then I'm not
creating something of value,and that's a fallacy.
Yeah, you should build thethings that aren't in the market
.
Build the integrations or thefunctionality that doesn't exist
.
Yeah, but why build another CRM?
(17:15):
Why build another schedulingtool?
There's, you know, we've gotproven tools that have been in
market for a long time yeah, Igot to know calmly really well
exactly like why build calendar?
Joe Grover (17:26):
I was like you literally can build an entire
company off of calendly, likeand we did wordpress and
calendly, you can do that.
Um, and yeah, that's what Ilearned from my learning
experiences from those earlystage startups was, like, we
could figure this out like, andthen we can do a proprietary one
once we have the funding andonce you've proven that.
Lindsey Ivie (17:42):
You've proven that people care like.
Joe Grover (17:44):
But we built it, it worked, pulled it off um and
then it was like the recruitingpiece.
I was on top of that.
We wanted to build amarketplace where people could
go um and when these mentorslike that were on the platform,
made like, referred otherservices to people like they
could get a residual affiliatemodel so I was also having calls
(18:07):
with like hundreds of differentpartners trying to line that up
and then trying to get thispiece done, so like it was all
coming together, I feel like itneeded.
Obviously, like with platformslike intro and things like that,
like a ton of marketing dollarsare getting dumped into those
to acquire new customers, whichwas where we were bootstrapping,
(18:27):
so that was a little tricky, soeverything was very marketed in
a way, with like very limitedbudget on that piece.
Lindsey Ivie (18:38):
So like no capital or very little capital to yeah,
so we were.
Joe Grover (18:43):
Yeah, it was.
It was definitely gettingbootstrapped like with that
piece Cause we were trying to besmart in the way like not
dumping more money intosomething, if we could kind of
like figure out how to just likegauge the interest potentially
raise later.
And then, but people wereinterested.
Lindsey Ivie (18:58):
Like you, started building this and marketplaces.
It's kind of a marketplace.
Joe Grover (19:01):
They're hard.
Marketplaces are the toughest,they're the hardest, yeah, right
.
Lindsey Ivie (19:05):
And where did you find more difficulty?
Was it getting the experts?
Was it getting the brands?
Like which part of the, whichside of the marketplace was the
most difficult to acquire?
Joe Grover (19:17):
users.
I think we had like a prettygood base of like experts on the
platform and those weren't ashard to get on.
It was just the marketing.
It's like getting to the marketwith what you have.
That's the hardest part I feellike um, because people got it,
though, like they clicked, likeit made sense to a lot of people
(19:38):
who are like, oh yeah, likethis is needed, but getting that
message to everyone is that'swhere there's typically like
bigger costs or just have to begrinded out.
I think a lot of it was in mymind.
I was like we just need to do alot of like personalized
outreach to people Like, hey,this is a new platform you can
use.
I found a lot of success indoing like the dirty work that
(20:03):
people don't want to do, butit's effective, like especially
with events.
Lindsey Ivie (20:06):
Yeah, one-to-one um, interesting, so what is that
?
Yeah, expand on that.
That's interesting.
Like what is the dirty workthat?
Joe Grover (20:10):
the dirty work is the laborious work that like
people want to do like one videoput, put it out there and then
it gets to everyone and everyonebuys what you're selling, which
that works really well.
But I think what I've foundlike over my years of like doing
events and helping with events,it's like personalized messages
, especially when you're newerand people don't know who you
(20:32):
are and they need to know whythey would be buying into what
you're doing.
Like it takes a text, it takesan email, it takes a lot of
those different things, and Ifelt like that's kind of where
we were at, where it's like okay, we're just going to have to do
the outbound.
Lindsey Ivie (20:47):
Yeah, it's so interesting because, like we're
throwing this event in two weeksand I'm just sitting and going
scrolling through all mycontacts and making text invites
.
And so I'm like sitting andgoing scrolling through all my
contacts and making text invites, so I'm like telling all my
partners I'm like, listen, thisis not about like a LinkedIn
post, this is about like just goinvite 50, 75, 100 people, and
(21:09):
a personal invite goes a longway.
It's that one-to-one you knowthat is really powerful, because
we're all just overloaded withso many marketing messages.
Joe Grover (21:16):
I get so many emails every day I don't check all my
emails, no.
And then I'm not bought in,like, I'm not bought into your
newsletter.
I'm sorry I get so manynewsletters, but you have people
like and a lot of times they'relike well, why should I go?
And then you like they're notgoing to be able to ask that in
(21:36):
a one-to-one message, but that's, I think, more and more like
marketing people, because we getso bombarded with like ads and
all these different emails anddifferent things, like I just
feel I don't feel a connectionto that.
I think more and more peopleare going to look for a
one-to-one connection.
Lindsey Ivie (21:56):
I totally agree One-to-one is powerful right.
In an environment whereeverything is one-to-many.
So, tell me a little bit about,like, how you were feeling at
this moment.
Like you're seeing earlytraction with Sharehouse.
Yeah, you're spending 12 hoursa day.
Yeah 15 hours.
I mean it takes a lot of timeto build a business.
And then what happened?
Joe Grover (22:21):
I'm to build a business.
And and then what happened?
Um, not getting into too manydetails, um, there's just some
differences in the, thepartnership that kind of led to
us deciding we needed to shutthe doors.
Like we did have an opportunityto like they were generous and
like, hey, you can, you can takeit over and keep running with
it.
But I was just, I was kind ofcontemplating, like I think a
(22:46):
lot of times like so much of ouridentity is in what we're
building at work, but then welose sight of what, what's
happening at home.
And in reality, that whole yearI was like, going through the
motions of my life, that thethings that like really mattered
, which were like I literally Ihad my four kids, I have four
(23:07):
kids, so I have six, so I andyou, you get it.
Yeah, it's a lot so, and at thetime I, in order to like pull
off a full day's work, I wasgetting four kids out the door
at like 7 45 every day, and thenI wouldn't see them till like 5
30 that night, like.
(23:28):
I would like do the loop, pickthem up on the way home then
you're back on your computer atnight after the kids go.
Yeah, you know, yeah becauseyou're always doing something
like, so you're never fully likedisconnected.
And even though I had thatopportunity to like I could take
this, I could like keep goingwith it, but then I don't know,
my kids are young and I just waslike I I feel like I've
(23:50):
forgotten, like the biggestfailure in my life would be like
failing my kids.
Right, like so it just didn'tseem to matter, like as hard as
that was to shut the doors andlike we decided just to like
kind of let that happen.
(24:10):
I felt even more like questionsin my life.
I'm like am I really focused onwhat matters?
How can I create more balancein my life and not get fully
sucked into things that are likeconsuming my whole life?
And that's kind of whathappened, right, I, I did that.
I allowed myself to to get, andit's hard for me to to like set
(24:35):
boundaries with myself.
When I get really excited aboutthings I'm working on and I get
really involved.
I have a really hard time likesetting boundaries and in my
mind I'm like, oh, I'm doing allthis good stuff, but then I'm
like, but am I like who's who'snot getting my time?
Like who's not getting myattention?
Um, I think that's where I Idecided for myself is like I
(24:58):
know if I continue down thispath with this project, it's
gonna take a lot of my and mykids are so young.
Right now I don't feel likethat's what I want to do with my
life right now.
Lindsey Ivie (25:09):
It's a really tough decision to make, but
maybe not so tough when youreally put it in perspective,
right Like the fear you had offailure was probably you had a
greater fear that you would failin the thing that mattered the
very most, which is your role asa parent, as a mother, versus
failing at a startup.
Joe Grover (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I think it kind of goes back to.
Even so, my dad was anentrepreneur and I feel like a
lot of that like entrepreneurspirit is like in me.
But he passed away, um, when Iwas 20, and it was um after I
(25:55):
hadn't seen him for like a wholemonth.
He was working 20 hour days.
He was doing a big project upin Washington for Costco, like
sealing the flooring.
Um, and I hadn't seen him forlike and when, when I did see
him after his like 20 hour workdays and getting like three
(26:17):
hours of sleep in the car, hejust looked like dead inside.
I don't know how to explain it.
Like he he very much was likedriven, wanting to be an
entrepreneur, wanting to do allthe things to help support his
family.
And then, you know, the nextsecond I'm he's gone.
You know he, he died in anaccident on his way to that
(26:43):
project he was working on.
Sorry, I think we just needthose reminders and I think he
(27:04):
is constantly reminding me thosereminders and I think he is
constantly reminding me ofwhat's important, because I
think if he could go back intime, he wouldn't.
That's not where he would wantto put his time Right, even
though like he would want tohave more time with his family,
right 100%.
So that was the reminder,because you get so focused and
(27:30):
you get so sucked into whateveryou're doing and at the end of
the day, it's like true failureis failing your family, right?
Like the whole purpose ofworking and building is so we
can grow as a person, but it'sso we can support our family.
That's the whole reason, islike that's why we go to work
every day.
(27:50):
So I'm grateful that I do stillhave like I feel like there is
a purpose to my drive of beingan entrepreneur and and wanting
to do the things I do.
But I think you just have tocheck yourself sometimes.
Lindsey Ivie (28:05):
Yeah, thank you so much for being so vulnerable
and open about something that'sso personal.
And I find myself sitting hereas a father right and asking
myself the question is the costworth the reward?
Joe Grover (28:21):
Mm-hmm.
Lindsey Ivie (28:23):
And maybe I'll just look at the audience and
the listeners and just say maybethis is your time to reflect on
whether or not your journey inentrepreneurship is worth it,
because there's a lot of waysyou can make money and fulfill
your ambitions and provide for afamily, and entrepreneurship
(28:46):
takes a level of sacrifice, time, emotional energy, focus.
That is unusual.
It's not a nine to five, and soI love that you kind of surface
this.
This whole idea of failure inyour family is the worst kind.
(29:09):
Yeah, failure.
Failure in business is, is notit's.
Joe Grover (29:15):
It's truly not.
Yeah, like after we shut thedoors of share house, I'll be
honest, I was like Idisconnected from social media.
I was like I disappeared forlike three months because I had
to still process it, becauseit's a loss, like when you build
something and then you don'thave it anymore.
There's a loss there, like, soI felt that loss why did you
(29:36):
disconnect from social media?
Lindsey Ivie (29:37):
talk to me about like was it?
Was it shame, was itembarrassment, was it just you
were overwhelmed, I just didn.
Embarrassment, was it?
Joe Grover (29:43):
just you were overwhelmed, I just didn't.
I think it was just a littlebit of both, probably.
I think there's my identity.
It's no longer there, you know.
So you're just like well, whoam I?
I think it was finding myselfagain, cause I I gave myself to
this and now I had to take astep back and be like nope,
that's not who I am, that that'snot who.
I am.
That is not who I am.
(30:04):
Like.
Who am I?
I think that's a hard question.
Like and that's something wecan all ask ourselves is like
who are you outside of yourbusiness?
That's right.
Like, if you can't answer thatquestion, I would invite you to
take a step back and, like,really dig deep and figure out
who you are, because that couldbe gone in a second.
Lindsey Ivie (30:26):
What's up, phil fans, you know, as we've
listened to so many guests onthis podcast, that the road to
success is often paved withfailure, with a lot of
challenges and even full-on faceplants.
But there's a thing that youcould do to help skip some of
those bumps and bruises, andthat's really where the
consultants at Amplio come in.
See, amplio offers fractionalexecutives in finance, marketing
(30:50):
and HR, and these are peoplewho've experienced a lot.
They've been in the trenches,they've built businesses,
they've failed.
But here's the kicker They'velearned from those failures and
now they're applying all thatwisdom to your business to
support you.
So you don't have to learn thehard way.
I mean, think about it.
Instead of stumbling around inthe dark and hoping you don't
hit the wall, you could bringsomeone in who's already mapped
(31:12):
out that room right.
Amplio consultants and expertshave worked with and for
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business efficiently.
So while we embrace failure onthis podcast, there is no rule
that says you have to fail ateverything yourself.
So check out Amplio and see howtheir fractional executives can
(31:36):
help your business move forwardand avoid those painful
learning curves.
Sometimes the smartest move islearning from someone else's
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Visit ampliocom.
Joe Grover (31:46):
Businesses will come and go.
Lindsey Ivie (31:47):
Yeah, and I I we've talked about this with
other entrepreneurs we, when ouridentity and our feelings of
worth and value are inseparablytied and connected with our
title and our role as a founder,a CEO or a CMO or whatever our
role is in our company, we setourselves up for a lot more pain
(32:09):
than is necessary Because thesecond we're not a CEO or a
founder or a successfulentrepreneur or a fast 50 event,
then we feel like we're notworth anything or our value to
society, to our community, toour friends has somehow been
diminished yeah so it's easy tosay that it's hard to do it.
(32:30):
So what?
How have you decoupled yourrole as a entrepreneur with your
sense of self-worth?
Joe Grover (32:39):
um, I think it's actually helped that I've kind
of done less if that makes senseLike I'm not at every event,
I'm not, like I'm very selectivein where I spend my time,
because I feel like I don't haveto show face anymore, like it's
just like being more thoughtful, because I know that that time
(33:00):
spent there is time spent awayfrom my family.
So I have like taken a hugestep back.
I used to be at like everynetworking event.
I used to be at a lot morethings, but I think I'm just a
lot more thoughtful in where Ispend my time.
Lindsey Ivie (33:14):
I think that's there's this FOMO as an
entrepreneur and a founder,where you're like.
I mean, I had an event lastnight I should have been at, and
I'm just.
I was feeling guilt around that, as you know seven o'clock and
I was like I should really bethere.
It's down in Utah County,there's amazing people there,
amazing speakers, and I wasn'tthere.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I'm like I'm not doing my
job, I'm not representing thebrand I'm not building if I'm
(33:36):
not present, but but guess what,I'm not representing my real
job.
I'm not impacting the peoplethat matter most when I'm not
present with my children, and soit's.
You know we have to pick ourplaces, yeah, as entrepreneurs,
(34:05):
around where we spend our time.
Otherwise, every hour of everyday will get filled with things
that seem important in themoment, which may or may not be
highest impact, bring us themost joy and help us succeed in
life outside of work.
Joe Grover (34:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (34:16):
So it's really you know.
Unfortunately, you and I areprobably having to learn this
the hard way.
Yeah, but at least we learn.
Joe Grover (34:22):
That's the whole point of life, right.
It's to learn Like if you're,if you're taking a step back and
you're allowing yourself tolike learn from these things
like that's.
I think that's the whole pointof existing Right.
Lindsey Ivie (34:33):
What's your key learning from the share house
experience?
Joe Grover (34:40):
What's the piece?
I think, um, where I'm at in mylife now with my kids, the age
they are.
I don't want to put myself in aposition where I spend that
much time away from them.
I know that's probably not likethe business answer you're
looking for, but but for me it'slike um, and then, yeah, I
(35:06):
think that's probably thebiggest thing, what I needed to
learn from that is the priorityI needed to put in place and,
like I can still be anentrepreneur, I can still build,
but I can maybe be a littlemore thoughtful in what I'm
building and how I'm building itand what where I'm spending my
(35:27):
time what any learning aroundpartnerships?
Lindsey Ivie (35:31):
partnerships are hard.
I see so many co-founders goingto business together and it's
exciting on day one, andsometimes misalignment or
personality conflicts yeah the,the thing that craters the
business.
Joe Grover (35:44):
I wouldn't say this like share house would like that
was.
There was the personality,different things that played out
there.
But like overall, like I had areally good experience from that
and I'm grateful for what Ilearned and I'm grateful for the
opportunity that I got to likeI feel like I got an MBA in
(36:06):
building that like there's somuch I learned and so many
incredible relationships I madefrom being there and I think it
was I was meant to do that, likeI was meant to spend that time
doing that.
I'm grateful for that.
But I would say, like in otherventures I've done in the past,
is to always get things inwriting, because I've had
(36:30):
businesses taken from under methrough an email because
somebody owned the domain that Ididn't have access to and I
didn't have anything in writingto protect me from that.
Lindsey Ivie (36:42):
Yeah, it's a great finding.
We need to have trustingrelationships with our partners,
but it's also helpful to getthings in writing, because I've
seen too many times wherethere's a handshake agreement
and then, when things get hardor things are going great, those
handshake agreements getrewritten in ways that can be
really damaging to the businessand to the entrepreneurs.
Joe Grover (37:00):
I think I heard a saying it's like you keep honest
people honest when you get itin writing because I, at the end
of the day, like we, thingswill happen and you don't know
what's happening behind thescenes with that.
Your partner like what?
Like they're dealing with athome if they're having like
financial strain, what's leadingthem to act the way they're
(37:22):
acting?
But you're keeping them honestif you have it in writing.
I like that keeping honestpeople honest.
You have it in writing.
Lindsey Ivie (37:26):
I like that Keeping honest people honest.
Yeah, I remember when weconnected, I was fascinated by
this event because I was just inthe process of launching the
podcast.
Joe Grover (37:34):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (37:34):
So tell me about Failed Fest.
What was the inspiration forthis?
Maybe what you've talked abouttoday?
Joe Grover (37:39):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (37:39):
But what was the inspiration?
What's the format?
Tell me more about Failed Fest.
Joe Grover (37:43):
Yeah, so it's actually.
It was like two years ago.
I was at lunch with my husbandand we had like a few other
people there my friend, um Sarah, was there as well and we were
just kind of joking around likethere are typical conferences in
Utah.
It's always like people gettinginterviewed, these super
successful founders, and you'rejust hearing like all the things
(38:07):
they did right and like all thethings they did well, and then
we just were joking around likewhat if we had fail fest?
and it was like everyone'sfailures and instead of like, um
, we have like a couch and atherapist and they're like
interviewing the founder of likeall the things you haven't
heard about, like behind thescenes, like all the failures
that happened that led to theirsuccesses, and then just we were
(38:30):
just kind of spiraling and wecan have the graveyard of failed
products and like all thesedifferent fun things.
And I kind of sat on that for awhile and I think after my
experience with ShareHouse,where I was like I felt it a
little deeper.
I'm like I think a lot ofpeople need to hear from people
they look up to like what'sreally happening behind the
(38:53):
scenes.
That's right.
That led them to where they aretoday.
So it's been like a work inprogress.
We were we're shooting forOctober, but I was pretty, I was
pulled into a really big eventthat took a lot of my time,
which was phenomenal.
Yeah, so I'm I'm looking at afew new dates for that.
(39:14):
So and we have some thingsleading up to I want to build
more of a community around itand have like once a month
panels, not just one big thing.
So I'm trying to break thatdown and kind of because I want
people to have access to it moreoften than like once a year,
like one big conference where wecould have these conversations
more openly.
Lindsey Ivie (39:31):
I think they're so valuable.
That's why I launched thepodcast and that's why I'm so
grateful you came on to sharethat because we need to hear
kind of the unvarnished versionsof these entrepreneurial
stories, not just to like helpentrepreneurs who are navigating
the complex emotional andfinancial implications of a
failed business, but also tohelp entrepreneurs that are
(39:52):
thinking, hey, I want to startmy own company and I'm reading
Entrepreneur Magazine and FastCompany and LinkedIn.
I'm watching LinkedIn and allthese entrepreneurs are making
it and the reality is it's likeno, most of the entrepreneurs
are not making it even when itseems like they're doing well.
The cost of that and theeventual outcomes in most cases
are closing the doors.
(40:13):
The experience you had and thatI've had and unless we talk
about that and destigmatizefailure, then I feel like we're
just going to be glorifying theIPOs and you know all the
success stories and reallythat's not the most probable
outcome.
Joe Grover (40:30):
Yeah, and I wonder if there's more people being
open about even like those threestartups I worked with like
don't do this, like this willmake you fail.
Like how many companies will bemore successful if we're more
open about like things to avoid?
Like don't do this.
Lindsey Ivie (40:49):
At episode 100 of the F word, if we get there.
Joe Grover (40:52):
Yeah.
Lindsey Ivie (40:53):
I want to just take all of the patterns and all
of the learnings and thestories and just like to still
it down into like a guide.
Like here are the hundredthings that you should never do,
and maybe it's 10 things, but,like, here are the things you
should be aware of.
Here are the hundred thingsthat you should never do, and
maybe it's 10 things, but, butlike, here are the things you
should be aware of.
Here are the pitfalls.
Right, here are the things thatentrepreneurs, over and over
(41:14):
and over again, have had tolearn the hard way.
And you don't have to learn thehard way.
It's also the reason why yourengagement with a company is so
beneficial as a as a consultant,is you can help say whoa, whoa,
whoa.
I've seen this, I've seen thisbefore.
Joe Grover (41:28):
You don't want to do this.
Lindsey Ivie (41:30):
Like let's not go sell that product 10,000 times
when like it doesn't work.
Joe Grover (41:35):
Right, it's vaporware.
Lindsey Ivie (41:36):
Yep.
So, lindsay, this has been soinsightful.
Yeah, what?
What would you share with anentrepreneur?
Both your perspective as aconsultant, having worked with
lots of companies that aregrowing and scaling, as a
co-founder of a company that hadto shut its doors, and as a
mother?
What would you share with anentrepreneur?
Joe Grover (41:55):
I would share that it's so important to not try to
do everything yourself like to.
It's to lean on friends andmentors and people to help you
through those hard times, andsometimes that means like taking
a step back.
I think it's so hard.
You get sucked into what you'rebuilding and doing and it might
(42:17):
be just destroying your life.
Right, and maybe it's it's okayto fail and I think that's a
hard time or hard thing to hearis like nobody wants to fail,
nobody wants to feel like afailure.
But even through shutting thedoors of the companies I've had
to to work with and I've seenthe doors shut up um, you can.
(42:40):
I've learned so much and I amthe person who I am today and
like I have the experience in mycareer that I have because I
was, I took a chance and Ilearned from that.
But I'm not a failure becausethings didn't work out.
Maybe that's the biggest thing.
It's like you're not a failureand just even if you you're in a
dark place and you feel like umgiving up and you you feel like
(43:03):
you've just failed ateverything.
Just think of all the thingsyou've just failed at everything
.
Just think of all the thingsyou've gained and learned from
those experiences that havecreated growth in you and the
person you are today.
Lindsey Ivie (43:16):
I love that, that you have failed, but you are not
a failure, yeah.
Joe Grover (43:21):
That's okay, I have failed.
I have failed so many times.
Lindsey Ivie (43:39):
I have failed.
I have failed so many times butthinking through all those
times, I've grown so much as acompany.
And I said he was the CEO and Ihad just come off a stint as a
CEO.
That was really tough.
And I looked at him I said it'sreally lonely to be the CEO.
And he said no, it's not.
And I was like I had just methim and I was like whoa, and he
said it's not lonely.
It's not lonely if you surroundyourself by people that you
(44:02):
trust and you share that load.
The success and failure of thisbusiness will not rest on me
alone, and that was such aprofound moment in my career.
Joe Grover (44:10):
And.
Lindsey Ivie (44:10):
I've never said that the job of a CEO is lonely.
There were moments, many yearsinto that journey, that we
talked about that conversation.
I think there was moments hedid feel the loneliness and I
reminded him it's not lonely ifyou lean on us your management
team and you lean on mentors andyour family, so that's amazing.
Joe Grover (44:30):
I'm Lindsay Ivey.
I failed, but I am not afailure.
Lindsey Ivie (44:35):
Thanks for tuning in to the Real F Word.
The Real F Word is failure, andremember that failure is a
stepping stone, it's not just astumbling block to
StumblingBlock.
Join us next time as wecontinue to explore the journey
of resilience and growth,without ignoring the true cost
personally, professionally andfinancially that comes with
failure.
Keep learning, keep growing andkeep embracing the real stories
of entrepreneurship.
(44:56):
See you next time.
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