July 14, 2025 • 30 mins
In today's digital world, accessing personal information, especially financial data, is easier than ever. In this episode, we talk with Page Adlington, Senior Manager at Charles Schwab, about why protecting your data is a key part of securing your retirement. Together we explore practical tips to help keep your personal and financial information safe.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Real Talk Retirement Show, where we
explore the financial side ofretirement and beyond.
Whether you're currentlyretired or planning for the
future, we offer real, relatableconversations about money and
personal finances.
Most importantly, we dive intoall these topics using real talk
.
Now let's get real about yourmoney and your retirement.
(00:23):
Now, let's get real about yourmoney and your retirement.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, hello everyone.
This is Tracy Burke, co-host ofthe Real Talk Retirement
Podcast and flying solo today asa host.
We gave my witty co-host, BrianGraff, this episode off, since
we have a special guest joiningus today, and that special guest
is Paige Adlington, a seniormanager at Charles Schwab
Company and part of theirtechnology consulting team.
(00:51):
Paige has over 25 years ofexperience and we welcome her to
the Real Talk RetirementPodcast.
So thanks so much for joiningus today, Paige.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And Paige is coming to us from Dallas, texas, so
excited to have her with usagain.
So again, this is a specialepisode.
We've all likely experiencedfraud in our lives, especially
financially, at some point, andunfortunately, it's only likely
to get worse.
Today we want to spend a littlebit of time here discussing
(01:26):
what to be aware of in the worldof fraud and how everybody can
protect ourselves from being thevictim of fraud, especially
again on that financial front.
So that's our topic today.
We're just going to jump rightin Paige and as we read
newspapers and take a look atthe news, it seems like there's
(01:47):
just always news of databreaches on really a weekly
basis.
Now it's frankly become socommon that sometimes it doesn't
even hit the news, so to speak,anymore.
But of course that doesn't meanwe can let our guard down
anymore.
But of course that doesn't meanwe can let our guard down.
It really seems like everyonethat I know has received at
(02:08):
least one of those letters inthe mail right, saying you've
been a victim of a data breachof some sort.
So at some point I think it'sprobably fairly safe to say that
it's no longer a matter ifpieces of our personal
information are floating aroundthere in a dark web or somewhere
else.
Would you say that's a fairstatement, paige.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, when I'm havingconversations about cyber, I
stress here that a little fear,or even a lot of fear, is good.
You just need to assume and Ieven do this in my own personal
life, friends and family youjust need to assume at this
point that your information isout there and that can be some
(02:50):
pretty detailed information.
And I put it that way because,really, the way you defend
yourself with that assumption isto think about actions,
activities that you can do toprotect yourself with regard to
the fact that your data isprobably out there.
I mean, that's really the wayto address cybersecurity is
(03:11):
assume it's out there and thenthink about all the steps and
the precautions you can take toprotect yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, for sure.
And again, I heard you just sayyou know it's likely that your
personal information is outthere in some way, shape or form
and really ready to be used by,you know, those bad actors, so
to speak, for their own gain.
So you know, it's incrediblyimportant to protect ourselves
and make sure that we're noteasy targets and again, it's a
(03:39):
topic today.
So, you know, let's maybe startwith email and some best
practices with email, since youknow, I know it's very easy to
be a clicker right when we'redealing with email and that can
get us in lots of trouble.
So I think I've heard thephrase being used before that
email is cyber public enemynumber one.
(04:00):
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat that means, paige.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, one.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat that means, paige.
Yes, so you know, when it comesto email, and specifically with
regard to what we see at Schwab, almost you know well over 99%
of fraud is initiated via email,and so when we say that it's
public enemy number one, youjust it is.
It is because it is the mostcommon form of communication
(04:25):
these days, and there'sdefinitely a false sense of
security around email.
What you need to be aware of isthat email is, you know, you
can think of it as an equivalentto sending postcards through
the mail, imagining what youwould put on a postcard and
believing that everybody in thatchain that handles that
postcard can read what you say.
And so would you put yoursocial security number on a
(04:49):
postcard?
Would you put confidentialinformation and an email?
No, you wouldn't.
And you really need to think ofemail that way.
We see both.
You know individuals, you knowmyself personally.
You know, in all aspects oflife, the chance that your email
has been compromised is prettyhigh.
(05:09):
Now, there's things you can doto protect yourself, but really
this is where we stress the ideaof you don't need to put
confidential information in anemail.
I even like joke that we needto go back to the days where we
pick up the phone.
I mean, you know it's like thiskind of counter switch to oh,
we don't have to call each other, we can text and we can email.
(05:31):
But really sometimes the mostvaluable way and the most secure
way you can protect yourself isyou don't have to send that via
email, pick up the phone.
Or think of secure channelslike portals or, you know,
secure links.
You know you just really need tothink of email as a place where
fraudsters sit and that's, youknow, I actually go out there
(05:54):
and stress fraudsters can sit inyour email for months.
If your email is compromised, afraudster can sit and watch your
activity for months.
They can have software that'smonitoring for keywords like
mortgage or money movement youknow all types of financial
activity and then that flagsthem to come back and look at it
(06:16):
.
What also that means of afraudster sitting in your email
for a long time is.
I mean, like most of you, Ihave an email that's been around
for decades, my personal emailand I think sometimes of what I
would have done maybe 20 yearsago and sent because of, you
know, just lack of awarenessaround cybersecurity.
(06:36):
Those emails live there.
So if you sent tax returns 20years ago and you didn't delete
them and you didn't clean up,there's a very good chance that
fraudsters can go back and goback 20 years or however many
you've stored and pull out thatdata.
So that's where we talk aboutis like email is just extremely
risky place to do anything of aconfidential nature.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, and that's that's so true with past
documents that are being sent,that were sent and so forth.
And just to emphasize a littlebit for our listeners about
sending secure documents andinformation here at Conrad
Siegel, the clients we work withthere certainly are times where
we will be the receiver ofsensitive data, whether
(07:24):
sometimes it's an account numberthey want to share an outside
account or some type ofinformation.
And again, of course, we alwaystry to you know, educate and
direct folks.
Let's just not be sendinganything sensitive, you know,
and that includes attachments toyour point there, but using
some secure attachments to yourpoint there, but using some
secure, whether it's a vault,client portal, secure messaging
(07:53):
of some sort along there.
So now that again, I think wecan probably all agree that
email certainly can be dangerous.
Paige, can you explain what canwe do with email security to
better protect ourselves?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yep, when I approach cybersecurity, I tell folks that
there's no one thing that'sgoing to save you.
And I say that because there'sno.
You know people are like what'sthe one thing I can do that's
going to protect me?
Or if I do this, am I protected?
And really it is no one thing.
It's all about layeringprotections.
So, for instance, when we thinkabout email, your first line of
(08:27):
defense with email I could sayis you're not doing email over
free Wi-Fi where somebody couldbe watching you even more
specifically.
So kind of think you knowcontrolling the environment
where you're doing activitiesaround email.
Or you know, on networks, andthen I say a password, I mean we
can just talk.
(08:47):
I mean I could spend an hourtalking about passwords alone,
but password is your first lineof defense.
And when I say a password, youknow historically there was some
thinking, you know expertthinking that you needed to have
, say, eight to 10 characters.
You needed to change it every90 days.
You know that type of activityand really that is no longer the
(09:09):
case.
You know what we're seeing overand over is that what is
important about a password?
It needs to be lengthy and itneeds to be unique.
So when I say lengthy, thatmeans 12 to 15 characters and
believe me, I live in a world,at Schwab, where I have a 15
character password, you know.
So it's becoming the norm.
(09:30):
So, yes, we'll start withlengthy.
The second part of that isunique, and I stress uniqueness.
And when I say unique, thatmeans you don't want to do
something called a credentialreplay.
And credential replay is when Iuse the same username and,
potentially, password on, youknow, a bank account, on my
(09:51):
Target account, on my Spotifyaccount not pitching any of
those, but you know, it's justcoming to mind what I use all
the time, Because the chancethat potentially one of those
avenues where you're using thatusername and password having a
breach means that not only areyou say specifically having a
breach at one of those vendors,but that's what they try to do.
(10:13):
They try to go in and theygather those credentials and
then they just, brute force, tryto do it across multiple
platforms, especially financialplatforms.
So let's just say you'rethinking, oh, I use it for
Spotify or I use it to do Applemusic.
What's the harm?
Well, if you use that samething on your financial accounts
(10:33):
, if Spotify were to get hacked,that means they're going to go
and potentially just try tobrute force break into others.
That really aligns with a dataleak that we saw years ago
around LinkedIn and people werevery like, ah, I don't care,
it's LinkedIn.
You know what are they going tosee where I've worked before,
who my network is.
But that was intentional togain folks credentials so that
(10:54):
they could go look for otheravenues to use that data.
So what I say is password.
Got to say it 12 to 15 minimum.
It needs to be unique acrossplatforms and when I say 12 to
15, it doesn't necessarily haveto be the whole numbers, letters
, special characters, thinkpassphrases.
(11:15):
I mean, I'm a big fan of apassphrase.
If that's the way it helps youremember, then use a passphrase.
So that's your first line ofdefense.
Once you've got that robust,unique and lengthy password, the
next step absolutely I say nogray area in this.
People often ask for the grayarea.
(11:36):
Two factor or multi factor isyour next layer of defense.
So, if people aren't aware ofthat.
That is something like a faceID.
If you're looking at a specifictype of account, you know it
might be something that'sbiometric.
So your face ID it might bewhere it says OK, we're going to
text you to a known number andyou need to put the code in.
(11:57):
You know those are what we callmulti or two factor.
So that's like that secondcredential beyond your password
that protects you and youliterally make accounts
impenetrable by doing thattwo-factor.
So when I say it's all aboutlayering like we're layering
using a secure network in thefirst place, having a robust
(12:18):
password in place and username,and then turning on that multi
or two-factor where it exists,those are significant things
that will protect you.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, and while those two factor multi-factor
authentication items, they canbe annoying, right, I know
logging in this morning here,you know, conrad Siegel it's,
you know, trying to get intoFort Knox, half the time trying
to get into my computer it feelslike, but it's a good thing and
you know we almost have to doit and all good things along
(12:52):
that line.
So I just want to, you know,with password management, just
want to talk a little bit.
There's different ways,different password managers out
there.
You know, as a user of GoogleChrome, that's one that I use
quite a bit know some folks thatuse iPhones that have I think
it's called iCloud Keychain.
So whether they're encryptedand I assume they're heavily
(13:18):
encrypted and safe, but are theygood?
Good, because you know again,that's if you put all your
passwords in one place andsomebody breaks into your
password manager, now they haveall your passwords.
So how does all that work?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So we'll start with what is just specifically called
a password manager, and there'slots of great ones out there
LastPass, dashlane, you know Icould there's a whole list.
You know that's something thatexists, and doing your own
research is great when it comesto a password manager.
We are, you know, fans of that.
You know me and my team thatwork around cyber.
We're fans of those.
(13:56):
And one thing I do say, though,is, if you're going to use a
password, I'm not a fan of usinganything free.
So, folks that know me and workwith me, or even on a personal
level, I'm like, never use thefree version of anything.
I'm like the reason the versionis free is because you're almost
like a test case for security.
If you're going to use apassword manager or you're going
(14:16):
to use certain applications,just go ahead and spend the
extra money and get a reallyrobust licensed version because
effectively, that means you'regetting more security.
They're patching holes.
Licensed version because,effectively, that means you're
getting more security, they'repatching holes, you're getting
updates.
Password managers are great onebecause, yes, they're
generating those pass codes foryou and and and.
Yeah, there there's definitelysome hesitancy and people
(14:37):
thinking, well, there's, likethis, one code to the.
You know it's the key to thekingdom.
But what you need to understandis, beyond that key, there are
multi layers of encryption andbarriers to get to your
information.
So you know, historically Ithink it was about a year and a
half ago we had a passwordmanager that had been hacked and
made big news.
(14:58):
But what people didn't reallydig into the data is all they
got through was like a veryfront layer of defense.
They didn't even come close tothose multiple barriers.
So even if they were to getsome small piece of data, they
never got to.
You know, specifically toencrypted data.
But you know, once again I saywhen you go out to, you know,
(15:20):
deploy or license anythingyourself personally.
You want to do your own duediligence, you know.
Do your research, find out whatyou're comfortable with.
I also say, when it comes to apassword manager, if you're not
going to use it, then don'tdeploy it.
I don't think tech is there forjust tech sake.
So if you feel more comfortablemanaging individual usernames
(15:41):
and passwords in two-factorrobustly, go that way.
If you want to use a passwordmanager, do your research.
They even have things, like wecall it an inheritance factor
now, where let's say, you candesignate somebody if you needed
to or if you knock on wood, ifsomething were to happen and
somebody needed access to youraccount, then there's a
(16:01):
designated person or way to getat that information.
So it's available.
So that's kind of like a backup.
Now I'll switch to what yousaid, tracy, talking about what
we'll think of more as ourdigital password manager.
So when I say digital passwordmanager, it's more what most
people are used to is like usingGoogle or you know, more
(16:23):
commonly is on the iPhone, usingthe chain.
And yes, the short answer isthose ways of capturing
information and passwords andcredentials are safe.
There's layers of encryptionand that's updated regularly.
That's why it's always safe andyou should always do your
(16:44):
updates on your iPhone or yourAndroid device, like whatever
that is.
I joke that the reason you'regetting an update on your phone
is not so you get a new emoji,that's all cute and like trendy.
The reason you're getting anupdate is because they found a
security hole and it's there topatch that.
So I'm always stressing, in anytype of software, but especially
(17:05):
on our phones these days,because it's a walking computer,
let's face it, it's the lastthing we do on those these days
is talk.
I mean, it's our computer.
So you know, do those updatesand, yes, those methods in those
ways.
So you know, like having yourkey chain where it's storing a
password, all that data isencrypted, somebody, you know
(17:28):
you're having passcodes and youknow and your phone is secure
with biometrics et cetera.
So there's like that firstlayer and then when you're going
into that key chain, it'stypically authenticating again
with like a face ID to then putthat password in there.
So, yes, those are secure waysof using the iChain, or we'll
just call it really the mobilepassword managers, and I hire
highly encourage those, and Isay that because if you've ever
(17:49):
seen it generate a passcode foryou, you know it's like a crazy
length and it's crazy characters, or even if you're creating
your own, it's just a next levelof defense.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and you know, key takeaway for me is you know,
sometimes the free servicesthat are out there might not be
the better one, Right and yessomething.
So along that same line.
We've always heard of LifeLockand there's others that that I
assume are still out there.
Is that something just?
And I'm not sure if that helpson the front end, you know,
(18:25):
prevent cases, but at least ithelps identify.
How do those you know identitytheft protection services?
Do they help to prevent it?
Is it just notification?
And should people you know lookinto purchasing one of those?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Well, to your original point when we started
the conversation today, assumethat you've been hacked.
I mean, there's hardly anybodythat I ask these days that
hasn't been part of a breach andhasn't gotten free credit
monitoring.
I think right now I'm probablypart of four and you know I've
got multiple you know freeservices going on for the next
four years monitoring my credit.
I will say personally I alsouse LifeLock for all different
(19:06):
kinds of reasons that youexplained.
I generally agree that youshould have some type of service
monitoring your activity, yourcredit activity, anything, I
mean it's even more than that.
Those services, likespecifically a LifeLock, will
come back and tell me, hey, thisspecific data showed up on the
(19:26):
dark web.
We're monitoring it Now again,a lot of times those are
reactive and not proactive, soalways keep that in mind.
It's good to have them becauseit makes you aware of what's
going on, so that, once again tomy original point, you can go
and protect yourselves.
So like if they say, come backand it tells you, hey, your
(19:48):
email or this username andpassword showed up on the dark
web.
You need to know to go changethat Now.
Has that already happened?
Is that data out there?
Yes, it is, so it is a littlebit more reactive, but it can
help you in terms of beingproactive, as in locking down
your credit, so helping you lockdown where you can't open a
credit card in your name.
(20:09):
I get lots of questions around,like title fraud and people
trying to take people's homes.
I will say that that's rare.
I get that question a lot.
That's not where I put most ofwhat I would call my worry.
You know, if I have a basket ofwhere to put my the things I'm
most scared of, it's really hardto jump through those loops.
Not that a basket of where, butmy, the things I'm most scared
of it's really hard to jumpthrough those loops.
Not that it doesn't exist, butyeah, I would it it.
(20:33):
It tells me where my dataexists.
I have credit locked down andthose types of services help me
lock down that credit.
Something interesting thatpeople don't usually think about
is those services don't alwaysmonitor, like your checking and
savings accounts.
So the banking system is almosta separate thread of protection
(20:55):
, and so I encourage people togo out and look for services
that will also monitor yourchecking account activity and
I'm not talking about youwriting a check or your debit
card transactions.
But you know, people often openfraudulent accounts in like a
checking account and that's justa way for a fraudster to get in
(21:15):
there and potentially like movemoney in a legitimate
transaction to a fraudulentaccount.
So I'm like, don't just thinkcredit, think bank accounts like
you know, checking accounts andsavings accounts whenever
you're looking for thoseservices.
I want you to make sure thatyou're looking for a wide
umbrella that covers multipleavenues of fraud okay, now you
(21:38):
know.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Talking along those same lines, I think you sort of
alluded to this a little bit.
But you know there's threemajor credit bureaus.
We got equifax, experience,transunion.
Uh, most folks, I think, areaware that they can freeze their
credit through there.
It does make it a little bitmore challenging than when you
do try to get credit in some wayshape or form.
(21:59):
Is that a good idea for peopleto freeze their credit with
those three major credit bureaus?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I say yes and you know, with a lot of things that
are cyber related and protectingyourself, I believe that that
inconvenience is worth theprotection.
So, you know, when people starttalking about cyber and some of
the things we've talked abouttoday, everybody's like starts
to click oh my gosh, I have tohave a really long password and
oh my gosh, now I'm going tohave to do two factor and I
(22:28):
can't use this.
But when it comes to what's atrisk, that amount of
inconvenience of maybe having tocall those credit bureaus and
they've made it easier now tolike kind of open it back up for
a window far outweighs thepotential risk that's associated
with having yourself hacked oryour credit taken over.
(22:50):
And I've gotten questions whenI'm doing this in person, you
know like well why are?
they coming after us?
And why is this happening to us?
And I'm like, because it works.
Because fraud, you know, goingafter people that have the means
or the financial you knowcapacity to attack, I mean,
those types of activities work.
(23:10):
So that's the reason they goafter the targets and they use
these ways of target.
It's because they still work.
So that's, you know, Justprotecting yourself just far
outweighs the risks associatedwith it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, and if we sort of go back to computer
maintenance or softwaremaintenance, even from that
standpoint, you know you Is thestandard security software that
really comes with thosecomputers enough, or should we
(23:50):
be adding some additionalprotection?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
You know generally these days, I would say that the
software that comes with youknow both PC devices often
obviously Windows or a Mac andiOS.
The software to manage updatesand protections is leaps and
bounds what it was like evenfive years ago.
I mean I could I give definiteprops to the Apple world and how
(24:19):
robust their security settingsare and how well those devices
are protected on their own.
Sometimes more on the PC side,I personally use another layer.
So you know I use anotherantivirus software on top of
what comes with it.
It just it's not expensive.
It makes me feel safe you knowme and extending it to my family
(24:39):
those licenses it gives meother types of notifications of
like stuff that's going on.
Or you know we've stopped thismany websites from tracking you.
So I think it's worth it.
Once again, they're not thatexpensive.
The thing that you need to makesure in either case you use, but
using a third party softwarewill often help you like this is
(25:00):
like Bitdefender one of thoseis that remind you and they give
you reminders and they makesure you're on top of it.
So if you're not one to manageyourself and go and make sure
patches are happening or thatyou know what's in the
background is working or ifyou're not setting it up
properly, then that third partysoftware can often be.
(25:23):
You know I call it like mylittle babysitter for my PC
because I don't constantly thinkabout it.
You know I live in the world ofSchwab.
Like I am so managed on mycomputer.
You know that I don't have tohardly do anything because
somebody is doing it all for me,so that can create a hygiene
like laziness for myself on mypersonal stuff and those third
(25:44):
party softwares help me beactive in monitoring it and
reminding me.
But generally what's included in, like the Windows, you know,
bitdefender and all those kindof things that are going on are
really robust these days.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, and as we wrap up, paige, we're going to finish
up with some possible actionitems here, but I think what you
just mentioned is such a goodpoint.
You know, even at Conrad Siegelwe have a phenomenal IT
department that helps keep ussafe, right, but we still have
to do a lot of thingsproactively to make sure it's
(26:20):
there.
They're giving us the tools andsetting the table, but it's up
to everybody.
So a couple of action itemsthat I was writing down as we
were talking through some ofthis stuff your first one is
thinking before you click rightSuper important, there's a lot
of links out there and emails.
So talk about emails mostly, butjust be careful, even something
(26:43):
we didn't talk about textmessages.
There's a lot of phishingthings out there.
Sending files with sensitivedata in a secure fashion that
was a point that I wrote down.
Password management you knowstrong, you know lengthy, strong
passwords and multi-factorauthentication was something
that you that that you talkquite a bit and and really you
(27:05):
know, I'll see if you have anyadditional to put there, but
just being overly, you knowoverall being just very
suspicious and cautious.
Uh, in all that you do.
But anything else that youwould add here before we finish
up?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yep, I w.
I would say in closing you know, my recommendation is I call it
the.
Don't acknowledge anythingincoming.
I wish I had a better phrasefor it.
But if you get an email thatlooks suspicious or is asking
for information, you do not haveto respond to that email.
You can go to a legitimatewebsite.
You can pick up a known number.
(27:39):
There's nothing that'srequiring you to action that
email.
The same thing these days, ifyou get a phone call asking for
information, if you get a phonecall from you know XYZ Bank,
saying we recognize fraud, saygreat, I'm going to hang up and
I'm going to call the legitimatenumber.
You never have to actionsomething incoming If an issue
(28:00):
or something is going on that'slegitimate.
Nobody's going to argue with youabout going to a legitimate
phone number or a legitimatewebsite.
Same thing with text, which isnow called smishing.
You know there's phishing andnow smishing is basically SMS.
You know you get a text that'slike how are you doing today?
And you're like I don'trecognize this phone number,
don't respond to it, I promiseit's fraud, you know, just
(28:22):
ignore it, block it, whateveryou want.
Same thing If you get a textand it looks suspicious.
Remember, we see fraud on youraccount, do not action.
That's why I say just do not doan activity based on something
incoming to you.
Turn that conversation around.
If I could stress anything isreach out to a legitimate
website, reach out to alegitimate source, and that will
(28:45):
do leaps and bounds to protectyou about around fraud these
days.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah.
So again, be suspicious and becautious, of course.
So thank you so very much,paige, for all your wisdom and
suggestions today.
This has been fun.
Could go on probably for hours,but we do need to move on.
So we also thank our listenersfor tuning in and, as always,
encourage you to reach out withquestions or comments to our
email address.
This is a secure email address.
(29:10):
Podcast at conradsegalcom and,as you all know, we're here to
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So if you like what you'rehearing here today, we ask that
you share with your friends andfamily and if you find it
valuable, give us that five-starreview and subscribe, if you
have not already done so.
So until next time, stay welland have a great rest of your
day.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Thank you for tuning into today's show.
The Real Talk Retirement Showis created and produced by
Conrad Siegel, an advisory firmthat specializes in helping
people prepare for retirementand beyond.
If you want to learn more aboutour work or meet the team, you
can visit conradsegalcom.
Information on this show is foreducational purposes only and
(29:53):
should not be consideredpersonalized investment tax or
legal advice.
Before making decisions, youshould consult with the
appropriate professionals foradvice that is specific to your
situation.
Welcome to the Real Talk Retirement Show, where we
explore the financial side ofretirement and beyond.
Whether you're currentlyretired or planning for the
future, we offer real, relatableconversations about money and
personal finances.
Most importantly, we dive intoall these topics using real talk
.
Now let's get real about yourmoney and your retirement.
(00:23):
Now, let's get real about yourmoney and your retirement.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, hello everyone.
This is Tracy Burke, co-host ofthe Real Talk Retirement
Podcast and flying solo today asa host.
We gave my witty co-host, BrianGraff, this episode off, since
we have a special guest joiningus today, and that special guest
is Paige Adlington, a seniormanager at Charles Schwab
Company and part of theirtechnology consulting team.
(00:51):
Paige has over 25 years ofexperience and we welcome her to
the Real Talk RetirementPodcast.
So thanks so much for joiningus today, Paige.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And Paige is coming to us from Dallas, texas, so
excited to have her with usagain.
So again, this is a specialepisode.
We've all likely experiencedfraud in our lives, especially
financially, at some point, andunfortunately, it's only likely
to get worse.
Today we want to spend a littlebit of time here discussing
(01:26):
what to be aware of in the worldof fraud and how everybody can
protect ourselves from being thevictim of fraud, especially
again on that financial front.
So that's our topic today.
We're just going to jump rightin Paige and as we read
newspapers and take a look atthe news, it seems like there's
(01:47):
just always news of databreaches on really a weekly
basis.
Now it's frankly become socommon that sometimes it doesn't
even hit the news, so to speak,anymore.
But of course that doesn't meanwe can let our guard down
anymore.
But of course that doesn't meanwe can let our guard down.
It really seems like everyonethat I know has received at
(02:08):
least one of those letters inthe mail right, saying you've
been a victim of a data breachof some sort.
So at some point I think it'sprobably fairly safe to say that
it's no longer a matter ifpieces of our personal
information are floating aroundthere in a dark web or somewhere
else.
Would you say that's a fairstatement, paige.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, when I'm havingconversations about cyber, I
stress here that a little fear,or even a lot of fear, is good.
You just need to assume and Ieven do this in my own personal
life, friends and family youjust need to assume at this
point that your information isout there and that can be some
(02:50):
pretty detailed information.
And I put it that way because,really, the way you defend
yourself with that assumption isto think about actions,
activities that you can do toprotect yourself with regard to
the fact that your data isprobably out there.
I mean, that's really the wayto address cybersecurity is
(03:11):
assume it's out there and thenthink about all the steps and
the precautions you can take toprotect yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, for sure.
And again, I heard you just sayyou know it's likely that your
personal information is outthere in some way, shape or form
and really ready to be used by,you know, those bad actors, so
to speak, for their own gain.
So you know, it's incrediblyimportant to protect ourselves
and make sure that we're noteasy targets and again, it's a
(03:39):
topic today.
So, you know, let's maybe startwith email and some best
practices with email, since youknow, I know it's very easy to
be a clicker right when we'redealing with email and that can
get us in lots of trouble.
So I think I've heard thephrase being used before that
email is cyber public enemynumber one.
(04:00):
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat that means, paige.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, one.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat that means, paige.
Yes, so you know, when it comesto email, and specifically with
regard to what we see at Schwab, almost you know well over 99%
of fraud is initiated via email,and so when we say that it's
public enemy number one, youjust it is.
It is because it is the mostcommon form of communication
(04:25):
these days, and there'sdefinitely a false sense of
security around email.
What you need to be aware of isthat email is, you know, you
can think of it as an equivalentto sending postcards through
the mail, imagining what youwould put on a postcard and
believing that everybody in thatchain that handles that
postcard can read what you say.
And so would you put yoursocial security number on a
(04:49):
postcard?
Would you put confidentialinformation and an email?
No, you wouldn't.
And you really need to think ofemail that way.
We see both.
You know individuals, you knowmyself personally.
You know, in all aspects oflife, the chance that your email
has been compromised is prettyhigh.
(05:09):
Now, there's things you can doto protect yourself, but really
this is where we stress the ideaof you don't need to put
confidential information in anemail.
I even like joke that we needto go back to the days where we
pick up the phone.
I mean, you know it's like thiskind of counter switch to oh,
we don't have to call each other, we can text and we can email.
(05:31):
But really sometimes the mostvaluable way and the most secure
way you can protect yourself isyou don't have to send that via
email, pick up the phone.
Or think of secure channelslike portals or, you know,
secure links.
You know you just really need tothink of email as a place where
fraudsters sit and that's, youknow, I actually go out there
(05:54):
and stress fraudsters can sit inyour email for months.
If your email is compromised, afraudster can sit and watch your
activity for months.
They can have software that'smonitoring for keywords like
mortgage or money movement youknow all types of financial
activity and then that flagsthem to come back and look at it
(06:16):
.
What also that means of afraudster sitting in your email
for a long time is.
I mean, like most of you, Ihave an email that's been around
for decades, my personal emailand I think sometimes of what I
would have done maybe 20 yearsago and sent because of, you
know, just lack of awarenessaround cybersecurity.
(06:36):
Those emails live there.
So if you sent tax returns 20years ago and you didn't delete
them and you didn't clean up,there's a very good chance that
fraudsters can go back and goback 20 years or however many
you've stored and pull out thatdata.
So that's where we talk aboutis like email is just extremely
risky place to do anything of aconfidential nature.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, and that's that's so true with past
documents that are being sent,that were sent and so forth.
And just to emphasize a littlebit for our listeners about
sending secure documents andinformation here at Conrad
Siegel, the clients we work withthere certainly are times where
we will be the receiver ofsensitive data, whether
(07:24):
sometimes it's an account numberthey want to share an outside
account or some type ofinformation.
And again, of course, we alwaystry to you know, educate and
direct folks.
Let's just not be sendinganything sensitive, you know,
and that includes attachments toyour point there, but using
some secure attachments to yourpoint there, but using some
secure, whether it's a vault,client portal, secure messaging
(07:53):
of some sort along there.
So now that again, I think wecan probably all agree that
email certainly can be dangerous.
Paige, can you explain what canwe do with email security to
better protect ourselves?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yep, when I approach cybersecurity, I tell folks that
there's no one thing that'sgoing to save you.
And I say that because there'sno.
You know people are like what'sthe one thing I can do that's
going to protect me?
Or if I do this, am I protected?
And really it is no one thing.
It's all about layeringprotections.
So, for instance, when we thinkabout email, your first line of
(08:27):
defense with email I could sayis you're not doing email over
free Wi-Fi where somebody couldbe watching you even more
specifically.
So kind of think you knowcontrolling the environment
where you're doing activitiesaround email.
Or you know, on networks, andthen I say a password, I mean we
can just talk.
(08:47):
I mean I could spend an hourtalking about passwords alone,
but password is your first lineof defense.
And when I say a password, youknow historically there was some
thinking, you know expertthinking that you needed to have
, say, eight to 10 characters.
You needed to change it every90 days.
You know that type of activityand really that is no longer the
(09:09):
case.
You know what we're seeing overand over is that what is
important about a password?
It needs to be lengthy and itneeds to be unique.
So when I say lengthy, thatmeans 12 to 15 characters and
believe me, I live in a world,at Schwab, where I have a 15
character password, you know.
So it's becoming the norm.
(09:30):
So, yes, we'll start withlengthy.
The second part of that isunique, and I stress uniqueness.
And when I say unique, thatmeans you don't want to do
something called a credentialreplay.
And credential replay is when Iuse the same username and,
potentially, password on, youknow, a bank account, on my
(09:51):
Target account, on my Spotifyaccount not pitching any of
those, but you know, it's justcoming to mind what I use all
the time, Because the chancethat potentially one of those
avenues where you're using thatusername and password having a
breach means that not only areyou say specifically having a
breach at one of those vendors,but that's what they try to do.
(10:13):
They try to go in and theygather those credentials and
then they just, brute force, tryto do it across multiple
platforms, especially financialplatforms.
So let's just say you'rethinking, oh, I use it for
Spotify or I use it to do Applemusic.
What's the harm?
Well, if you use that samething on your financial accounts
(10:33):
, if Spotify were to get hacked,that means they're going to go
and potentially just try tobrute force break into others.
That really aligns with a dataleak that we saw years ago
around LinkedIn and people werevery like, ah, I don't care,
it's LinkedIn.
You know what are they going tosee where I've worked before,
who my network is.
But that was intentional togain folks credentials so that
(10:54):
they could go look for otheravenues to use that data.
So what I say is password.
Got to say it 12 to 15 minimum.
It needs to be unique acrossplatforms and when I say 12 to
15, it doesn't necessarily haveto be the whole numbers, letters
, special characters, thinkpassphrases.
(11:15):
I mean, I'm a big fan of apassphrase.
If that's the way it helps youremember, then use a passphrase.
So that's your first line ofdefense.
Once you've got that robust,unique and lengthy password, the
next step absolutely I say nogray area in this.
People often ask for the grayarea.
(11:36):
Two factor or multi factor isyour next layer of defense.
So, if people aren't aware ofthat.
That is something like a faceID.
If you're looking at a specifictype of account, you know it
might be something that'sbiometric.
So your face ID it might bewhere it says OK, we're going to
text you to a known number andyou need to put the code in.
(11:57):
You know those are what we callmulti or two factor.
So that's like that secondcredential beyond your password
that protects you and youliterally make accounts
impenetrable by doing thattwo-factor.
So when I say it's all aboutlayering like we're layering
using a secure network in thefirst place, having a robust
(12:18):
password in place and username,and then turning on that multi
or two-factor where it exists,those are significant things
that will protect you.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, and while those two factor multi-factor
authentication items, they canbe annoying, right, I know
logging in this morning here,you know, conrad Siegel it's,
you know, trying to get intoFort Knox, half the time trying
to get into my computer it feelslike, but it's a good thing and
you know we almost have to doit and all good things along
(12:52):
that line.
So I just want to, you know,with password management, just
want to talk a little bit.
There's different ways,different password managers out
there.
You know, as a user of GoogleChrome, that's one that I use
quite a bit know some folks thatuse iPhones that have I think
it's called iCloud Keychain.
So whether they're encryptedand I assume they're heavily
(13:18):
encrypted and safe, but are theygood?
Good, because you know again,that's if you put all your
passwords in one place andsomebody breaks into your
password manager, now they haveall your passwords.
So how does all that work?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So we'll start with what is just specifically called
a password manager, and there'slots of great ones out there
LastPass, dashlane, you know Icould there's a whole list.
You know that's something thatexists, and doing your own
research is great when it comesto a password manager.
We are, you know, fans of that.
You know me and my team thatwork around cyber.
We're fans of those.
(13:56):
And one thing I do say, though,is, if you're going to use a
password, I'm not a fan of usinganything free.
So, folks that know me and workwith me, or even on a personal
level, I'm like, never use thefree version of anything.
I'm like the reason the versionis free is because you're almost
like a test case for security.
If you're going to use apassword manager or you're going
(14:16):
to use certain applications,just go ahead and spend the
extra money and get a reallyrobust licensed version because
effectively, that means you'regetting more security.
They're patching holes.
Licensed version because,effectively, that means you're
getting more security, they'repatching holes, you're getting
updates.
Password managers are great onebecause, yes, they're
generating those pass codes foryou and and and.
Yeah, there there's definitelysome hesitancy and people
(14:37):
thinking, well, there's, likethis, one code to the.
You know it's the key to thekingdom.
But what you need to understandis, beyond that key, there are
multi layers of encryption andbarriers to get to your
information.
So you know, historically Ithink it was about a year and a
half ago we had a passwordmanager that had been hacked and
made big news.
(14:58):
But what people didn't reallydig into the data is all they
got through was like a veryfront layer of defense.
They didn't even come close tothose multiple barriers.
So even if they were to getsome small piece of data, they
never got to.
You know, specifically toencrypted data.
But you know, once again I saywhen you go out to, you know,
(15:20):
deploy or license anythingyourself personally.
You want to do your own duediligence, you know.
Do your research, find out whatyou're comfortable with.
I also say, when it comes to apassword manager, if you're not
going to use it, then don'tdeploy it.
I don't think tech is there forjust tech sake.
So if you feel more comfortablemanaging individual usernames
(15:41):
and passwords in two-factorrobustly, go that way.
If you want to use a passwordmanager, do your research.
They even have things, like wecall it an inheritance factor
now, where let's say, you candesignate somebody if you needed
to or if you knock on wood, ifsomething were to happen and
somebody needed access to youraccount, then there's a
(16:01):
designated person or way to getat that information.
So it's available.
So that's kind of like a backup.
Now I'll switch to what yousaid, tracy, talking about what
we'll think of more as ourdigital password manager.
So when I say digital passwordmanager, it's more what most
people are used to is like usingGoogle or you know, more
(16:23):
commonly is on the iPhone, usingthe chain.
And yes, the short answer isthose ways of capturing
information and passwords andcredentials are safe.
There's layers of encryptionand that's updated regularly.
That's why it's always safe andyou should always do your
(16:44):
updates on your iPhone or yourAndroid device, like whatever
that is.
I joke that the reason you'regetting an update on your phone
is not so you get a new emoji,that's all cute and like trendy.
The reason you're getting anupdate is because they found a
security hole and it's there topatch that.
So I'm always stressing, in anytype of software, but especially
(17:05):
on our phones these days,because it's a walking computer,
let's face it, it's the lastthing we do on those these days
is talk.
I mean, it's our computer.
So you know, do those updatesand, yes, those methods in those
ways.
So you know, like having yourkey chain where it's storing a
password, all that data isencrypted, somebody, you know
(17:28):
you're having passcodes and youknow and your phone is secure
with biometrics et cetera.
So there's like that firstlayer and then when you're going
into that key chain, it'stypically authenticating again
with like a face ID to then putthat password in there.
So, yes, those are secure waysof using the iChain, or we'll
just call it really the mobilepassword managers, and I hire
highly encourage those, and Isay that because if you've ever
(17:49):
seen it generate a passcode foryou, you know it's like a crazy
length and it's crazy characters, or even if you're creating
your own, it's just a next levelof defense.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and you know, key takeaway for me is you know,
sometimes the free servicesthat are out there might not be
the better one, Right and yessomething.
So along that same line.
We've always heard of LifeLockand there's others that that I
assume are still out there.
Is that something just?
And I'm not sure if that helpson the front end, you know,
(18:25):
prevent cases, but at least ithelps identify.
How do those you know identitytheft protection services?
Do they help to prevent it?
Is it just notification?
And should people you know lookinto purchasing one of those?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Well, to your original point when we started
the conversation today, assumethat you've been hacked.
I mean, there's hardly anybodythat I ask these days that
hasn't been part of a breach andhasn't gotten free credit
monitoring.
I think right now I'm probablypart of four and you know I've
got multiple you know freeservices going on for the next
four years monitoring my credit.
I will say personally I alsouse LifeLock for all different
(19:06):
kinds of reasons that youexplained.
I generally agree that youshould have some type of service
monitoring your activity, yourcredit activity, anything, I
mean it's even more than that.
Those services, likespecifically a LifeLock, will
come back and tell me, hey, thisspecific data showed up on the
(19:26):
dark web.
We're monitoring it Now again,a lot of times those are
reactive and not proactive, soalways keep that in mind.
It's good to have them becauseit makes you aware of what's
going on, so that, once again tomy original point, you can go
and protect yourselves.
So like if they say, come backand it tells you, hey, your
(19:48):
email or this username andpassword showed up on the dark
web.
You need to know to go changethat Now.
Has that already happened?
Is that data out there?
Yes, it is, so it is a littlebit more reactive, but it can
help you in terms of beingproactive, as in locking down
your credit, so helping you lockdown where you can't open a
credit card in your name.
(20:09):
I get lots of questions around,like title fraud and people
trying to take people's homes.
I will say that that's rare.
I get that question a lot.
That's not where I put most ofwhat I would call my worry.
You know, if I have a basket ofwhere to put my the things I'm
most scared of, it's really hardto jump through those loops.
Not that a basket of where, butmy, the things I'm most scared
of it's really hard to jumpthrough those loops.
Not that it doesn't exist, butyeah, I would it it.
(20:33):
It tells me where my dataexists.
I have credit locked down andthose types of services help me
lock down that credit.
Something interesting thatpeople don't usually think about
is those services don't alwaysmonitor, like your checking and
savings accounts.
So the banking system is almosta separate thread of protection
(20:55):
, and so I encourage people togo out and look for services
that will also monitor yourchecking account activity and
I'm not talking about youwriting a check or your debit
card transactions.
But you know, people often openfraudulent accounts in like a
checking account and that's justa way for a fraudster to get in
(21:15):
there and potentially like movemoney in a legitimate
transaction to a fraudulentaccount.
So I'm like, don't just thinkcredit, think bank accounts like
you know, checking accounts andsavings accounts whenever
you're looking for thoseservices.
I want you to make sure thatyou're looking for a wide
umbrella that covers multipleavenues of fraud okay, now you
(21:38):
know.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Talking along those same lines, I think you sort of
alluded to this a little bit.
But you know there's threemajor credit bureaus.
We got equifax, experience,transunion.
Uh, most folks, I think, areaware that they can freeze their
credit through there.
It does make it a little bitmore challenging than when you
do try to get credit in some wayshape or form.
(21:59):
Is that a good idea for peopleto freeze their credit with
those three major credit bureaus?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I say yes and you know, with a lot of things that
are cyber related and protectingyourself, I believe that that
inconvenience is worth theprotection.
So, you know, when people starttalking about cyber and some of
the things we've talked abouttoday, everybody's like starts
to click oh my gosh, I have tohave a really long password and
oh my gosh, now I'm going tohave to do two factor and I
(22:28):
can't use this.
But when it comes to what's atrisk, that amount of
inconvenience of maybe having tocall those credit bureaus and
they've made it easier now tolike kind of open it back up for
a window far outweighs thepotential risk that's associated
with having yourself hacked oryour credit taken over.
(22:50):
And I've gotten questions whenI'm doing this in person, you
know like well why are?
they coming after us?
And why is this happening to us?
And I'm like, because it works.
Because fraud, you know, goingafter people that have the means
or the financial you knowcapacity to attack, I mean,
those types of activities work.
(23:10):
So that's the reason they goafter the targets and they use
these ways of target.
It's because they still work.
So that's, you know, Justprotecting yourself just far
outweighs the risks associatedwith it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, and if we sort of go back to computer
maintenance or softwaremaintenance, even from that
standpoint, you know you Is thestandard security software that
really comes with thosecomputers enough, or should we
(23:50):
be adding some additionalprotection?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
You know generally these days, I would say that the
software that comes with youknow both PC devices often
obviously Windows or a Mac andiOS.
The software to manage updatesand protections is leaps and
bounds what it was like evenfive years ago.
I mean I could I give definiteprops to the Apple world and how
(24:19):
robust their security settingsare and how well those devices
are protected on their own.
Sometimes more on the PC side,I personally use another layer.
So you know I use anotherantivirus software on top of
what comes with it.
It just it's not expensive.
It makes me feel safe you knowme and extending it to my family
(24:39):
those licenses it gives meother types of notifications of
like stuff that's going on.
Or you know we've stopped thismany websites from tracking you.
So I think it's worth it.
Once again, they're not thatexpensive.
The thing that you need to makesure in either case you use, but
using a third party softwarewill often help you like this is
(25:00):
like Bitdefender one of thoseis that remind you and they give
you reminders and they makesure you're on top of it.
So if you're not one to manageyourself and go and make sure
patches are happening or thatyou know what's in the
background is working or ifyou're not setting it up
properly, then that third partysoftware can often be.
(25:23):
You know I call it like mylittle babysitter for my PC
because I don't constantly thinkabout it.
You know I live in the world ofSchwab.
Like I am so managed on mycomputer.
You know that I don't have tohardly do anything because
somebody is doing it all for me,so that can create a hygiene
like laziness for myself on mypersonal stuff and those third
(25:44):
party softwares help me beactive in monitoring it and
reminding me.
But generally what's included in, like the Windows, you know,
bitdefender and all those kindof things that are going on are
really robust these days.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, and as we wrap up, paige, we're going to finish
up with some possible actionitems here, but I think what you
just mentioned is such a goodpoint.
You know, even at Conrad Siegelwe have a phenomenal IT
department that helps keep ussafe, right, but we still have
to do a lot of thingsproactively to make sure it's
(26:20):
there.
They're giving us the tools andsetting the table, but it's up
to everybody.
So a couple of action itemsthat I was writing down as we
were talking through some ofthis stuff your first one is
thinking before you click rightSuper important, there's a lot
of links out there and emails.
So talk about emails mostly, butjust be careful, even something
(26:43):
we didn't talk about textmessages.
There's a lot of phishingthings out there.
Sending files with sensitivedata in a secure fashion that
was a point that I wrote down.
Password management you knowstrong, you know lengthy, strong
passwords and multi-factorauthentication was something
that you that that you talkquite a bit and and really you
(27:05):
know, I'll see if you have anyadditional to put there, but
just being overly, you knowoverall being just very
suspicious and cautious.
Uh, in all that you do.
But anything else that youwould add here before we finish
up?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yep, I w.
I would say in closing you know, my recommendation is I call it
the.
Don't acknowledge anythingincoming.
I wish I had a better phrasefor it.
But if you get an email thatlooks suspicious or is asking
for information, you do not haveto respond to that email.
You can go to a legitimatewebsite.
You can pick up a known number.
(27:39):
There's nothing that'srequiring you to action that
email.
The same thing these days, ifyou get a phone call asking for
information, if you get a phonecall from you know XYZ Bank,
saying we recognize fraud, saygreat, I'm going to hang up and
I'm going to call the legitimatenumber.
You never have to actionsomething incoming If an issue
(28:00):
or something is going on that'slegitimate.
Nobody's going to argue with youabout going to a legitimate
phone number or a legitimatewebsite.
Same thing with text, which isnow called smishing.
You know there's phishing andnow smishing is basically SMS.
You know you get a text that'slike how are you doing today?
And you're like I don'trecognize this phone number,
don't respond to it, I promiseit's fraud, you know, just
(28:22):
ignore it, block it, whateveryou want.
Same thing If you get a textand it looks suspicious.
Remember, we see fraud on youraccount, do not action.
That's why I say just do not doan activity based on something
incoming to you.
Turn that conversation around.
If I could stress anything isreach out to a legitimate
website, reach out to alegitimate source, and that will
(28:45):
do leaps and bounds to protectyou about around fraud these
days.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah.
So again, be suspicious and becautious, of course.
So thank you so very much,paige, for all your wisdom and
suggestions today.
This has been fun.
Could go on probably for hours,but we do need to move on.
So we also thank our listenersfor tuning in and, as always,
encourage you to reach out withquestions or comments to our
email address.
This is a secure email address.
(29:10):
Podcast at conradsegalcom and,as you all know, we're here to
help.
So if you like what you'rehearing here today, we ask that
you share with your friends andfamily and if you find it
valuable, give us that five-starreview and subscribe, if you
have not already done so.
So until next time, stay welland have a great rest of your
day.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Thank you for tuning into today's show.
The Real Talk Retirement Showis created and produced by
Conrad Siegel, an advisory firmthat specializes in helping
people prepare for retirementand beyond.
If you want to learn more aboutour work or meet the team, you
can visit conradsegalcom.
Information on this show is foreducational purposes only and
(29:53):
should not be consideredpersonalized investment tax or
legal advice.
Before making decisions, youshould consult with the
appropriate professionals foradvice that is specific to your
situation.
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