Episode Transcript
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Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (00:00):
Hey, I'm Reggie Ponder the real
critic and welcome to the RealCritics Network.
I've been going for a minute'cause I was on vacation, but I
got my co who was me?
I got my co-host here, KathiaWoods and, Kathia.
how you doing?
Kathia Woods (00:15):
Good.
I traveled for work.
I still made all my zooms, butReggie said, I'm going to South
Africa.
You will not be here for meuntil I land back in America.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (00:27):
Look, so those
Kathia Woods (00:27):
of you that have been wondering, why has there
been laps?
It was not Ms.
Woods, Mr.
Ponder.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (00:33):
This was a, was traveling
Kathia Woods (00:34):
the globe, he was out here like Wildo.
Where is Reggie?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (00:38):
This was a trip 30 years in the
making.
So we've been trying to get toSouth Africa for a long time.
So we finally got therecelebrating my wife's birthday.
She was with her friends and allthat.
And actually that's a reallygood lead in to my, to our
segment of what's on my mind.
Because what's on my mind isactually South Africa.
(01:00):
It's Africa, in fact.
Is that the two trips that Itook, the trip we took in
November of last year to Kenyaand the trip we just took to
South Africa.
We learned a lot about historyand in all of the museums and
all the places that we traveled,they had movies, little short
movies about either apartheid,oppression, freedom, fighting
(01:24):
for their freedom.
And I will tell you is thatthese real life short
documentaries that they had inthe museums that we went into, I
learned a lot.
And when I say I learned a lot,we talk about how maybe we don't
learn enough about black historyhere.
(01:47):
Man, I didn't know half of thestuff as to how the United
States in our figures in theUnited States influenced a lot
of things that happened on thecontinent as well as how.
Apartheid in systems like thatwere mimicked after things that
happened on our continent in ourarea.
(02:09):
So I learned a lot, so muchstuff that's going through my
head and our movies, the moviesthat we see, like Cry Freedom
and things about Nelson Mandela.
Those movies don't even do thehistory justice.
They're a little piece.
But I'm so happy that I was ableto put my feet on the continent
(02:30):
and learn so much more aboutSouth Africa, about Ghana and I
hope to return.
So that's what's on my mind.
I'm still thinking about thecontinent.
Kathia Woods (02:42):
It's absolutely shameful.
A lot of people don't know thatNazi Germany looked at
segregation in the United Statesand said, Hey.
Let's look at, we can do that toJews and then took it up a
notch, right?
That is literally in the papersand in the architect of the
Holocaust, right?
(03:02):
We can look at how South Africalooked at again, the United
States with the apartheid andsaid, and Australia, for those
of you don't know, also had anapartheid system.
And not just how they treatedblack people, but the original
inhabitants, aboriginals, whichI think we gotta come up with a
better name than that.
(03:23):
And how they treated theoriginal Australians, right?
So a lot of this, when peoplesay we want to make America
great, or we want to have Africafor Africans, what do you mean,
beloved?
We need some clarity.
And I think like when people,our current leader, not to get
totally political, wants tobring certain people.
(03:44):
From certain African nations.
Those people and those Africannations are going, we don't
wanna come here, we good.
And I think what South Africadid was really smart, right?
And I feel like Brazil needsthat.
When, especially what I'm stillhere, where we talk about what
we touched upon so manyBrazilians that were disappeared
and were murdered and tortured,that the families never got a
(04:08):
body back what South Africa did.
By having those public hearings,to give people, say, we're gonna
give you immunity so that youcan tell the truth.
Not to absolve them of theirsins, but so these families can
get some closure to know whatwas done to their loved ones and
who did what so they, the worldand let the world in.
(04:28):
Because a lot of these peopleusually.
By people that were doing thewrong or the descendants were
doing the wrong.
Oh, it wasn't that bad.
Just like people, well, slaverywasn't that bad.
The slaves and the master wereliving together.
The slaves didn't wanna livethere.
They weren't there.
This was some kumbaya, they maywere making the best out of a
really horrible situation.
(04:48):
I think what they did is toreconcile, and I think that's
why their progress in some areasis better because they pulled a
bandaid back and they're willingto tell the truth about their
history.
As ugly as it is, no place isperfect.
But I do think that is part ofwhy they were able to.
(05:09):
And move forward.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
But I'm glad you had a goodtrip.
Trip and I'm glad that you andDonna had a good time.
Got some sun, some good food.
Now here's the question.
Reggie, did you go on Safari?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (05:20):
Okay.
So yes, Reggie did go on safariand I was scared as all get out.
For people who are just tuninginto this podcast, I am a
scaredy cat.
I'll be talking about that inrelationship to the movies.
I'll be talking out inrelationship to walking down the
street.
(05:41):
I am a scaredy cat.
And speaking of cats, one of thefirst animals we saw on Safari
were the lions.
And the lions, we were so closethat if I put my hand out of the
don't do that vehicle, if I did,they would've had them, some
(06:02):
Reggie and bits.
At one point.
I have a video as we'retracking, moving alongside of
the lions where the lion islike, yeah, I'm chilling.
This is my world.
And all of a sudden he turnstoward me.
I jumped back so fast becausehe, it just looked like he was
(06:23):
just gonna jump right into thevehicle and have him some Reggie
and bitch, not Reggie and bitch,just some Reggie and I,
everybody laughing at me becauseI am such the scaredy cat.
So yes, we saw the lions, theleopards, the.
Giraffes, elephants.
(06:44):
These
Kathia Woods (06:44):
giraffes are amazing.
Oh, you got ama.
All of it is amazing.
But I'm sure you probably werelike, listen, don't get no
ideas.
Don't put your hand out here.
Don't be trying to feed anybody'cause I will feed you.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (06:56):
I'll feed you one of these other
people that's in this vehicle.
It, it really was great.
We went to on three safaris, wewent one to one in the
afternoon, one in the earlymorning and then one at night.
And the one in the afternoon wesaw a lot.
The one in the early morning wesaw a lot.
But the one at night, did yousee elephants?
(07:16):
Huh?
Kathia Woods (07:17):
Did you see elephants?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (07:18):
Lots of them.
Lots of them.
I
Kathia Woods (07:20):
know Reggie was like, so what part of the
feeding cycle are we coming in?
Did everybody eat before we go
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (07:27):
out there?
For, for sure.
And there was one time when the,our vehicle almost cut off the
baby elephant from the herd.
And we were in danger becausethose elephants turned around
like, wait, what?
What's going on?
What's, and they're
Kathia Woods (07:44):
fast.
People don't, and you feel itlike the grounds are shaking.
Like you're like, Ooh, ooh, holdon this jeep.
I don't think it's faster thanthat.
Those an, a lot of people don'trealize, number one, elephant
moms are very protective.
They are fast.
They will hurt you and review itlater.
So I know you were like, howfast does this thing go?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (08:07):
We were the montagues and the
caplets, we saw that fight withthe, between the baboons'cause
they were fighting overterritory.
And we saw that fight there.
So it, it was, it really wasamazing.
The views were fantastic.
I'll share some pictures as forsure.
So it was great.
(08:27):
And with that, this week.
Talking about being proud
Kathia Woods (08:31):
of you.
Proud of you.
Because I know you were like,what?
Three What?
Why can't we just do one allinclusive?
But I'm proud of you.
Oh,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (08:39):
You are right In my head, I was
hoping how could we just do onesafari?
One Safari is good enough.
I don't need to get that closeto the animals.
Animals.
I just don't,
Kathia Woods (08:50):
that's how we know we, we African, but we ain't
damn type by African.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (08:55):
I don't need to get that close.
So it was fantastic.
We had a great time and ofcourse I'll share some pictures
and for people who might want tosee that out, I'll try to share
some on mywebsite@reggieponder.com.
I didn't think about that, butI'll share some pictures there
so people can check out some ofthose pictures.
With that, talking about being ascary cat, let's move into our
movie SEC segment and this weekwe are only gonna talk about, or
(09:19):
at least in this segment, we'reonly gonna talk about one movie.
And that movie is centers.
This is a much anticipated film.
Everybody's been talking aboutit, everybody's been waiting for
it.
And everybody except me hasinterviewed somebody from the
movie.
So I'm gonna give this one toyou first, Katya.
(09:39):
'cause you probably interviewedeverybody in their mother on
this film.
Yes.
Kathia Woods (09:43):
I talked to Michael B.
Jordan.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (09:45):
Oh my goodness.
Kathia Woods (09:46):
And I talked to Ryan Coogler.
So we had a really good, we hada good time talking about how
Mike prepared.
He had a dialect coach and hehad a twin coach so that he
could he worked with identicaltwins to talk about the
mannerism and their interaction.
I love how they had, how RuthCarter, who was on costumes made
(10:10):
sure how, even though they knowthey had different style,
whereas the one twin is moreoutgoing and more playful and
whereas the other twin is morecautious and more serious.
Right.
I'm not gonna give it away who,does what.
But I think that, each one of'em, I think I said, I think
this is Mike's most vulnerableand layered, because he's
(10:33):
somebody like with Creed, a lotof it was his physicality,
right?
And he is a handsome guy.
There's nothing you can sayabout it.
But I feel like a lot of timesthey played on that.
Even in as Killmonger, theyplayed on his physicality.
With this, it was more him beinghe was not as bulky and him
being a little bit morevulnerable in certain parts.
(10:54):
Also, there are so many parts ofit that I love, like.
It really depicts small southernblack towns.
If if you've been down southwhere you like, this is it.
This is the whole town.
Everybody knows everybody.
Everybody knows everybody'sbusiness.
The gangsters know everybody.
There's a scene where somebody'srobbing somebody and they said,
Hey, is that you?
(11:16):
Oh man.
Oh, I didn't know it was you.
Not saying I'm wrong forstealing, but had I known I
wouldn't have robbed you.
It's that type of vernacularwhere you know, everybody in
that town has their skills.
So I'm gonna need you to bringthis.
I'm gonna need you to fry thefish.
I'm gonna need you to handle thedoor.
Do you know what I mean?
So it is there's gonna be a lotof characteristics of that film
(11:38):
where you're like, I know thesepeople.
I know who they are.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
I know people like that minusthe scary part,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (11:45):
a absolutely.
And I want to step back for asecond and just tell people
who's in this film other thanMichael B.
Jordan.
You have Miles Caton, who is a,I guess, a prodigy, if you will.
And while he is great musically,they didn't lean into that as,
(12:06):
as much.
They allowed this guy to act.
He had to come and bring morethan his musical skills to this
film.
They had Haley Steinfeld as, aswell as one of the love
interests they had.
Jack O'Connell, who scared thebejesus outta me.
Then the person that I love, Idon't, I can't say the most, but
ney.
Moku, oh my goodness.
(12:28):
She looked beautiful.
She was strong.
What she brought to this filmwas just fantastic.
And then Jamie Lawson made mejust want to get married all
over again.
I was like, she is,
Kathia Woods (12:39):
she's one of those actresses.
We saw her in Malcolm X MLKX.
We saw her in the woman came.
She's one of those actresses.
I feel like she is one roll awayfrom that big breakout role.
Right.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (12:54):
I totally, she's
Kathia Woods (12:54):
always good and she's always steady and the
camera loves her, like herwhole.
Cheekbone her whole, she's justbeautiful.
She really
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (13:03):
is.
And I want to go back to talkingabout beautiful.
'cause ney looked phenomenal tome.
I, the way in which this filmwas shot let me finish the
people.
Nevermind.
I'm about to get ahead of myselfthen.
Then there's someone we all knowwho's Omar, Benson Miller, who's
in it.
And you love Omar e.
Every time he plays a role Ilike him.
(13:25):
And then you get the cherry ontop, the.
I don't know the thing that capsthe whole movie, Delroy, Lindo,
OMG.
When you look at the entirecast, when you look at this
entire cast, what they broughtto this film makes you want to
stay with it, makes you wantmore of it.
(13:46):
The casting in this is great.
Which by the way, Kathia, I amso happy that the Oscar, the
Academy, a awards have decidedto add a casting category
because I know that Cooglerdidn't have to run out and find
Michael B.
Jordan, but all these otherpeople had to be cast and the
(14:08):
casting directors should get thekind of credit that they should
get.
So it's,
Kathia Woods (14:12):
yes, I said that.
I said, how come is it that youcan have black directors that
can have a diverse cast andeverybody makes sense?
Like nobody's just there to bebackground dancers.
Do you know what I mean?
And I feel like.
That's because it's sointentional and it's, you have
Asian, you have, which is themakeup of the delta because of
(14:35):
you have Asian migrationmultiple times in history that
attracted them, right?
Because fishing water made sensefor that culture.
And also the effect, the, howthe white people were used.
It wasn't just done as like,Hey, I just wanna have white
people and we're gonna trashwhite people.
Like they had a purpose inthere.
(14:57):
So I agree with you thatcasting, and again mo miles
Canton was an absolute gem of afine, like, shout out to whoever
found him like.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (15:07):
He, I think he was traveling with
her at age 16 or 13 or somethingof that nature.
But, so he's been a, from amusical perspective a, he's been
on the map.
But from an acting perspective,I totally agree with you to
think that, this is my guy.
This is the guy that, that we'regonna get.
So from many of you who don'tknow what this movie is about,
(15:30):
it is about these two twins whoare played by Michael B.
Jordan.
It's Smoke and Stack.
I like that by the way.
I re I really like that.
But they're returning fromChicago to their hometown of
Mississippi to start all over.
But all is not what it seems.
It's not going, it's clear thatthey're running away from
something, but it's not clearwhat they are running into.
(15:52):
And that, and what they'rerunning into might be a bit more
evil than where they came from.
They, the movie says, you keepdancing with the devil one day
he gonna follow you home.
Oh.
And so I liked a lot about this.
I like the writing first, and Italk to you about this all the
time.
I think that the, if it's, ifthe writing is good, if the
(16:17):
writing is great, you have amuch better chance of having a
film that resonates and ittouches people.
And I think Coler, whoa, hewrote the heck outta this one.
It's, there's, to me, there's ahistory lesson, there's a
cautionary tale and scary cat.
Reggie, there's a nightmare andit is all at once.
(16:37):
So I think the writing in thiswas just great.
Kathia Woods (16:40):
I just think he was free because this is his
first standalone film sinceFruitville Station.
And it's not to say that thework he did in those other
movies wasn't good, but withCreed, he had to look at the
rocky pictures to make sure, tomake sense, to have Adonis be in
this pocket, right.
(17:01):
Then you have with blackPanther, the IP is the comic
books, right?
To make sure that you stay trueto the comic books.
So it is a lot of, where he hadto work with the given material.
This is all out of his cranium.
And I think he really wanted abreak from comic book world and
(17:21):
living up to other people'sexpectations.
He wanted to do his own thingand I love that, where he was
like, I just wanna make a movieabout something that's in my
brain and something that hasbeen on my heart and again,
celebrates my culture,celebrates my, my people.
And I think all of that isreally fantastic.
(17:43):
You know what I mean?
Where you don't have to, whereyou can show how strong of a
creative you are.
And I agree with you.
I was saying to Ryan, I said, Ilove, in the cinematography, his
attention to detail.
Anybody's ever been in the deepsouth.
I'm talking Mississippi,Louisiana, like Alabama.
There's a difference betweenthat South and North Carolina.
(18:05):
I'm talking about that small,southern deep, that humidity.
Woo.
There's a reason why some of usare like, sir, I, you want me to
be outside to do what?
So I can just be sitting,getting bit by bugs.
And that is, it's like it takesa different types of tolerance
and the way that he captured it.
(18:25):
And it's also, I would say it's,that's a certain cadence.
Right, because people say NewOrleans cadence is different
than small town rural cadence.
The way people talk, the waypeople move, the way people
interact, right?
Like how often have you been ifyou had a chance to go to that
(18:47):
park, right?
Because, we always 90 miles perhour city folk, and they tell
you, well, you gonna have toslow down.
You are in the south now, right?
You gonna have to, it's a total,it's a total difference way to
spell right.
And in your mind you're like,that's, these people don't care
that you want something in fiveminutes.
They're gonna give it to youwhen they're ready to give it to
you.
I wanna
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (19:07):
jump in though, because you were just
talking about how this was shot.
The way this is shot visuallyshows a proud people, a
determined people a.
A purposeful people.
And I think that wholecombination of closeups, you
look at the costume, the setdesign, the makeup, it clearly
(19:28):
says that these guys were notjust making a film that
entertains, but one whichcelebrates the richness of our
being.
And so I want to just shout outsome of those people.
When you look at Autumn Doral,al, what she did from a syn
cinematic perspective, it was Ithink masterful.
Oh,
Kathia Woods (19:48):
I agree.
Because you know what?
You believe that they're in thisenvironment and this community
is the community, even thoughit's a fictional town.
But you can tell that shestudied and she understands that
there's a certain way that thishas to be shot in other people
who are from those areas.
(20:10):
Can relate.
And also to help people whoaren't understand why they're
moving
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (20:15):
the way that they're moving a
Absolutely.
And then you talked about RuthieCarter.
Those costumes were phenomenal.
I, it felt like we were in thattime and in fact, to me, the
first half of this felt like aperiod piece the first half
until the second half.
And they tried to scare the beJesus Outta Me and Hannah
(20:37):
Beachler.
So, so we're
Kathia Woods (20:38):
the design the store, like, come on.
Those still exist.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (20:45):
So we get Academy Award winner
Hannah Beachler two Time AcademyAward winner Ruthie Carter.
We get, I think also Two TimeAcademy Award winner.
I always mess up his name.
The, for the Music, Ludwig, The,but how do you pronounce his
last name?
Renson.
Kathia Woods (21:02):
I gotta look it up.
Hold on.
Yeah.
Lou
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (21:04):
would lu.
So you get you are getting theselike top of the top people.
And I want tell you, I think allof them just brought it, yeah.
E every last one of them broughtit.
I guess the other thing that,that I want to mention is that I
(21:25):
think that Coler boldly putseverything on display here.
He shows the laughter and thetears, the good and the evil the
joy and the pain, and you cansee it.
And it to me goes back to whatyou were saying a little
earlier, that we know thesepeople, we know that even though
they were dealing with racism,they were still in the cotton
(21:45):
fields working hard.
That there still was some joy.
We saw the pain, but we stillsaw the joy.
We saw laughter in tears.
There's this one scene in thecotton field where, one
character is being asked to comealong and his wife is working
there as well.
And it was like, you gonna makea lot of money?
And he's like, I ain't goingnowhere.
I'm gonna stay with my wife.
(22:06):
And the wife was looking like,you better go on out there and
make that money.
It was hilarious.
They just did such a good job.
And I think that what Coler didis created a conversation with
the audience about theconnection to music and how it
bridges the past and the future.
He was real imaginative byshowing that from the drums of
(22:28):
Africa to the hip hop of todayto even some of the cultures
from an Asian perspective, hehad it in there.
And it is very, I thought justvery well done the way.
Oh, I agree.
Kathia Woods (22:40):
I think that's also a bigger conversation.
I tell people.
There's always this complexityfor us as black people.
Why we clinging to Christianityso much?
Because it's a religion that wasforced upon us, right?
And why we speak so negativelyupon the spirituality of the
ancestors, right?
(23:00):
I'm like, who's depiction andwhose vision of our original
spirituality is it?
This idea that we were out hereslaughtering people and eating
people.
That's not our perspective.
That doesn't come from ourcommunity, that comes from
Europeans who used that picturein order to force us into their
Christianity.
(23:21):
Right?
And I'm not saying if you're aChristian, I'm gonna be very
clear.
You practice whatever religionyou wanna practice.
Like, I'm not here to say one isbetter than the other, but we
have yet to resolute with thefact that those of us that, that
want to.
Hearken back to our originalspirituality.
Right.
I was saying, like, people weresaying, well, in, in the South,
(23:42):
you see people practice that.
I said, but it is not officiallya tax-exempt religion.
It is frowned upon to publiclysay that you practice voodoo or
whatever it is.
Right.
It is.
And I just wanna It's did youconsidered, you're considered
what's, what You said itearlier.
It is part the whole thing thatyou're dancing with the devil
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (24:05):
And the interjection is that in my
review I said that Coler was notafraid of celebrating parts of
our culture.
The mainstream society mightfrown upon and you hit right
upon it.
He displays our belief in thespirits and demons.
He shows how we would castspells to keep him away.
I believe that simply byshowcasing those customs and
practices, he declared thatthey're an asset versus
(24:28):
something to be ashamed of orsimply demonic.
And I think that's a boldstatement.
He did not shy away from showingthat part.
So I'm really glad that youmentioned that.
Kathia Woods (24:37):
Oh, 100%.
I did too.
In my review, I'm like, what doyou think all those people are
doing?
When you go to Brazil andeverybody's wearing white and
they're all at the beach,they're not in there just to
jump into the water'causethey're bored.
It's something to do.
They're there for a purpose.
The ANA are dressed in white.
They have the flowers.
They're giving an offering tothe goddess of the ca manja for
(24:58):
protection into the new year forblessings into the two new year.
It's very common in Brazilpeople don't go see
psychiatrists like they go herein the United States.
They go see the voodoo priestessand still go to church on
Sunday.
The two are not conflicting.
It's very common.
For them to work in unison.
So I think what he's doing isforcing us to have a
(25:19):
conversation to reflect uponthat and to stop being shameful
of it, because who are thepeople that are making us feel
shameful about where we comefrom?
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
We're all taking trips toAfrica, but are we really
leaning into that?
You know what I mean?
It's very common when peoplewere enslaved or people were
(25:42):
sold, that your mother or themothers would put a protection
pouch on their children, ontheir loved ones.
You know what I mean?
That is just the ancestors andthose to have protection over
you.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So I think that is, I hope itopens up a opportunity for us to
(26:03):
have more discussion and toreally stop being shameful.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (26:10):
I think that's exactly what Co
Kugler was trying to do.
I will say that, and I said thisearlier, is that these two
movies for me, and I don't thinkit was for everybody, but for
me, they were two differenthalves.
The first part to me was likethis period piece where I was
learn learning who the peoplewere, figuring out if I liked,
which who I liked, if I likedany one of those twins, by the
(26:32):
way I was trying to figure itout, but I was like, oh man,
it's vibrant.
It's showing our culture.
It's showing who we are.
That second half, oh, there's ascene where I jumped outta my
seat.
I'm sitting next to one of ourfellow critics and he laughs up
a storm.
He sent me a text messagesaying, okay.
Scary Kat.
(26:53):
All of my friends saw me movingand squirming and doing
everything in my seat.
That second half is a differentmovie to me.
I think he made it work becauseby laying the foundation of who
these people were, when we gotto that other part, that scary
part, and I won't tell you a lotabout it'cause I think you need
(27:13):
to go see it for yourself.
Ooh girl.
I was like, he made me questionwhether, how we are living as a
people, but even if we want tocontinue living in a particular
state, if you get what I mean.
So I might
Kathia Woods (27:29):
oh, for sure.
I, the other thing I wanna sayis I love how smoke and step
moved, these are two black menin the segregated south that
were not out here bending theknee for nobody.
And remember I, Reggie, I wantedto see if you caught that line
when he, when Miles Stantonasked him, smoker Sex was in the
car with him.
And he was like, so what wasChicago like?
(27:52):
Right?
And he said, and I'mparaphrasing, same thing, just
with higher buildings.
In other words, this idea ofthat a lot of people from the
south thinking they were gonnago to the north and they were
gonna have these freedoms, andhe's like, same is just
different day.
Basically what he was saying.
And I myself, wow, I hope peopleare catching that.
(28:16):
You know what I mean?
He was like, we went up therelooking for these things and I
think what the twins weresaying, what Ryan was trying to
say is they came back home.
'cause they're like, at leasthere we know everybody.
They said it.
They said, why?
Everybody's, why.
Everybody's on the, we know howeverybody moves and we know what
everybody's position is up thereis constantly like, it's like
(28:37):
double Dutch, but one day thisperson's on your side, this
other person's on your side.
So I thought that was reallysmart.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (28:42):
Yeah, it they said specifically we
rather deal with the devil thatwe know.
Kathia Woods (28:48):
And that's so true, but again, these two, when
they were even negotiating withthe white man for their venue,
right.
I had to think of the wordvenue.
I was about to say Shaq.
No, it's venue.
They knew that.
Yeah.
They still had to look outbecause this was too, when he's
trying to say, oh, the Klan ison the gone, they're like, yeah,
(29:08):
we gonna, we wanna do businesswith you today, but we still we
don't trust you.
They were ready for whatever.
Yeah.
He was gonna bring,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (29:15):
They, they were definitely ready for
that.
I think that Coler really didgive us something to, excuse the
pun, to ponder.
Because when we think about the,our music today what Miles was
going through as Sammy, he wasstruggling between should I use
my music for good, which is forGod with my father.
(29:38):
Or should I use my music forwhat I'm feeling, which is a
little more what she cannerysex, sin all that other stuff.
And one of the twins even tellshim at one point, dude, you
don't want, you don't want, youain't about this, you don't want
this kinda life.
You need to go back, use thatmusic with your dad.
(29:59):
But that was the thing that wastearing Sammy up, where, how do
I use this gift that I'm given?
And it, when we look at our,even our music today I even the
music we grew up on, I'm nottrying to say the music today is
worse than the music back then,I don't want to have that
(30:20):
argument.
'cause we had that argument allthe time.
And you, the music person, youthe person who studies music.
So I'm not gonna have thatargument, but I really could
feel how that battle between.
How risk risque I get with mymusic and how secular I am
versus how proud and playful Iam with my music.
(30:42):
So, I could see that andMichael,
Kathia Woods (30:44):
I think it's still a conversation.
We know so many people that knewsecular music got their start in
their church.
You, they're frowned upon whenyou're not using the gift.
When they have bad thingshappen.
That's because you turn to thedevil's music.
And I'm always like, my comebackfor that always has been a Well,
how do we know that God didn'tgive the person the gift to
(31:04):
reach your bigger audience?
Right?
Whereas if you, if we, withinthe church, you're only reaching
church people, but when you aredoing secular music, right, not
necessarily participating indebauchery, how is your
testimony any less when you'rereaching a bigger crowd?
You know what I mean?
And it isn't.
And what is the point of beingof the church if you're still
(31:26):
leading a sinful life?
But if you doing something rightfrom your place of earnest and
place of decency and reallywanting to bring joy to people,
but you're living your life forpurpose, you're giving back to
the community and that, how areyou gonna need less of a
Christian?
So I think that's theconversation that's an ongoing
conversation that we're stillhaving today.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (31:46):
It's, and the pushback would be is
that, that how far that so manyof our people who start out of
the church and move into secsecular music, they end up
getting too caught up in that.
And so we it is a questionarytale because we've seen, you've
been hipping me to all thesedifferent documentaries and when
(32:08):
we watch these documentaries ofsome of our musical legends, you
see that the, that.
That life grabbed him as opposedto the music grabbing other
people.
Yeah.
So, and
Kathia Woods (32:19):
we can, yeah, and we can also say that some people
that stick to just doing gospelmusic get caught up in the fame
too.
It's, I don't think necessarilyit's a type of music.
It's how you handle growingfame, popularity and all that.
And if your foundation is shaky.
Right.
And I think for Sammy, it waslike, well, if God gave me this
(32:40):
gift, right, why would he wantme just to keep it here on in,
in this church?
Why wouldn't he want me to shareit with more people?
Do you know what I mean?
And I think that's aconversation and also a
conversation that we have asparents.
You and I've had it, offline.
We have to allow our kids tofind their own way.
(33:03):
That doesn't mean that they'rewrong, that doesn't mean they're
not off God.
Different, doesn't mean betteror worse, but we all have the
right to have autonomy over ourlives and make decisions for
ourselves.
And if we truly love ourchildren and we have faith in
the teachings, we be stood uponthem, then we should have faith
that they're gonna go throughthe world and be okay.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (33:23):
I, yeah, you and I bounce this one
back and forth.
I will say maybe we'll havefaith that they'll be okay but
we do try to tell'em, look,there's a wall in front of you.
There is a wall in front of youand we are here to let you know
that there's a wall in front ofyou hoping that you're gonna
listen to us.
So you don't have to hit thewall.
Now we gonna be here once youhit the wall and try to help
(33:45):
you.
But we don't want to have tosay, I told you so I told you
not to do that.
Right.
Your,
Kathia Woods (33:50):
my love is not conditioned upon our kids doing
what we think they should do.
And I feel like in Sammy's case,his father was basically saying,
if you're going to be my son.
You have to do what I think youshould do.
And I don't think that's right.
I think for me, I'm speaking forme, Kathe, I don't think that is
not love because it either wesay we love our children, right?
(34:12):
And we don't always have toagree the path that they take.
And in some cases we were wrong.
In some cases our kids took adifferent path and it turned out
quite right and quite successfulfor them.
So I think that is also.
And I get it.
You and I have had discussionsof we get it where it comes
from.
Right?
We are fearful for our children,especially in that time, right?
(34:33):
We're fearful for all thehorrible things that can happen
to them.
We are fearful that they won'thave community there to protect
them and love them.
And even now, like, when we weregrowing up, you and I are Gen
Xers, when our parents werelike, get a good job because
they knew what it was like notto have security, not that
benefits.
And here we have an opportunityof access to that and we wanna
say, oh, I wanna do somethingcreative.
(34:54):
Why would you wanna do somethingfoolish like that?
Well, you can have a pensionwhen you can have house
insurance, right?
So all of these discussions, Ifeel like.
There's no right and wrong,right?
No.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (35:04):
There's no right.
There's
Kathia Woods (35:05):
no right and wrong, but it's an ongoing dance
with
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (35:08):
us as black people.
That's it.
It is.
And what I wanna say as itrelates to the movie is that in
this case, Sammy's father isright.
You gotta be you have to becareful'cause the devil might
follow you home.
Kathia Woods (35:21):
Yes and no.
Yes and no way.
Uhuh there ain't no yes or no.
He was halfway right.
Was
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (35:25):
it is a yes.
He was like, love the way yougoing.
The devil's coming along withyou and you, if you going to do
that, don't come around here.
'cause I don't want the devil upin end.
Kathia Woods (35:38):
He was right or wrong.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (35:39):
Yes and no.
He was right.
Dude was right.
Kathia Woods (35:42):
Yes and no.
Reggie Ponder, The Re (35:43):
Whatever.
Anyway, so as we talk aboutwhat's not to like about this
film, there were a couple ofthings that I won't say I, I
disliked, but that.
Made me pause.
And the first one is I've, whichis I already talked about, which
is I felt like that it was twofilms and because I felt that it
(36:04):
was two films.
So some people, I think thetransition might not have been
as smooth.
I have heard some talk aboutthat.
For me, it worked.
It worked.
But the it does feel like twodifferent films.
I could see a whole film on eachone of those done.
About just the life inMississippi from the from a
period piece perspective aboutsmoke and Stack and what they
(36:25):
did and how they went around.
But I also could see this otherfilm about vampires and all.
I could see a whole film on thatas well.
I feel
Kathia Woods (36:33):
like he used, do you think I feel like he used a
mythology and the vampire, Idon't necessarily think of this
as a horror film, right?
I think he used a mythology ofvampires to talk about maybe I'm
out here by myself.
The wickedness and thehatefulness of racism.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (36:55):
You know what I totally feel that I,
that's not where I first camefrom, but I can buy that.
I, and I think because I went
Kathia Woods (37:02):
into it like you, I'm thinking like, okay we set
in the stage who's who in all ofthis, right?
And then second half of thefilm, we gonna find out that I
thought it was gonna be like,some of our Kim folk ain't skim
folk, but we then I was like,oh, Ryan, I'm with you.
I see where you doing this, butyou like literally saying that
(37:23):
they don't like that these twoNegroes are up here a little bit
too uppity.
They're up there walking tall,toting guns, talking to people
in a certain way.
You know what I mean?
Like, he really, like when theywere negotiating the fee for the
venue, they were not talking tothat man like, yes sir.
They were talking to that man asequals.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (37:42):
No.
Did, because I think that's agreat take.
I think
Kathia Woods (37:45):
that's a, and I'm thinking to myself, so he
basically is saying, when, as wegive, hopefully by the time you
hear this podcast, you'll seenthe film when they first meet
them folks, right?
They're like, well, we wannacome in, we like to partake.
They're like nah you wouldn'tlike this.
Right?
And then I'm saying to myself,he's saying he don't like the,
(38:09):
I'm thinking Ryan is using themto say he don't like the idea of
these black folks finding a wayto make money, finding a way to
have a business, the audacity tohave a spot without coming to
asking and asking ourpermission, they're doing their
own thing.
I,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (38:25):
I could totally see that the way I
looked at it was a little bitdifferently.
A just a little bit differently.
But I think it's, it.
Congruent with what you'resaying.
The way I looked at it was theywere saying that smoking them
were saying, oh, we ain'tletting these white people up in
here.
'cause when we let white peopleup in our stuff, it always
messes up our stuff.
(38:45):
That's
Kathia Woods (38:45):
true.
I mean that they also, like, wegotta, also gotta remember
Right, you are 100%.
I thought that too.
They're like, listen, black andwhite people didn't mix like
that.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (38:53):
We not letting you guys up in here
because we already know you'regonna mess up our stuff.
And they, even when you
Kathia Woods (38:58):
gonna want to take a cut from the money, that's the
main part.
They're like, not only is itgonna bring the police, you
gonna wanna cut into our money.
They even talked about, get twopartners here.
They
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (39:08):
even talked about that some where
they said, once we let whitefolks in here and if.
One of us looks at the whitewoman the wrong way, one of us
touches.
All of a sudden the wholedynamics of having fun, being
loose and free and enjoying ourpeople and our culture just goes
to pot.
It goes by the wayside.
(39:29):
So, I, but I do think that youryour interpretation is that
they're not mutually exclusive.
That both of'em can worktogether.
I just looked at it like, nah,we ain't letting these white
folks.
Or even
Kathia Woods (39:40):
like, when you think about it, remember we
didn't talk about Hailey'scharacter place, Mary, but she
came in, they were like, nah,girl.
Like we know.
They're like, but you know me.
They're like, we know you, butyou can't, girl.
You might, but your complexionis throwing off the whole
situation.
You got to go.
Yeah.
We know you, but them folksshould the clan, whoever come
(40:02):
through here, they're gonna belike.
That's not gonna fly, so youcan't come through.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I love how this movie,speaking of Haley Feld has
helped her lean in and embraceher heritage.
'cause a lot of people don'tknow that she's got black DNA in
her'cause I know.
Some black folks are going like,why is this white lady Harper
(40:23):
white, this white lady in thismovie?
Because this is, she just likeMary has black heritage in her.
She has black, on her mother'sside, she's Filipino.
And on her mother's side hergrandfather was black.
So this allowed her to have aconversation within her family,
(40:46):
a little bit out like Rebeccadid with passing.
To lean in and be like, well,why have we shied away from
this?
And for her to have someanswers.
And I think that's beautiful.
And I think that shows a lotabout Hailey, who she's as a
person because, and also showsRyan how intentional he could
have just hired any white lady,right?
He made
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (41:06):
sure.
He thought about that.
He
Kathia Woods (41:07):
thought about all of that.
He thought about that because wedon't understand, just like I,
you know how we people, I'm 100%African, sir.
The moment we left the continentand we had our involuntary
migration, not all of us ceasedto be 100% black.
Some of us just have moremelanin than others.
But it's been a long time sinceyou, especially the way we
(41:30):
interact and mix, since you were100% African.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (41:34):
Yeah no, no doubt.
So there are two other thingsthat I want to points I wanna
make before we wrap it up.
And I, and this is related to myscary cat nature, I can't even
lie to you.
I was a bit confused as to whatTwin was loving, what woman was
and the reason I was, becausethere were a couple of times in
the film where I'm covering myeyes because I was so scared.
(41:56):
I was like, is smoke with Mary?
Is I, so I got, I did get alittle bit confused, but that's
just on me'cause I'm just ascary cat.
Right.
And you will hear Katia fromsome of our fellow critics, you
should have seen Reggie in thetheater.
They were, I got text messagesfrom them saying.
(42:17):
Dude, you are definitely a scarycatt.
What's up with
Kathia Woods (42:21):
that?
So we're not, so when JordanPeel's hymn drops, you not gonna
be in there.
You just gonna be in there like,I don't think I'm
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (42:26):
gonna watch.
I don't even think I'm gonnawatch it.
And then the last thing that Iwanna mention is I am, I think
Ryan did this because he's beenin the Marvel franchise, but I
am not, I repeat, I am not a fanof the after credit, mid credit
continuation.
I am just not a fan of it.
And they do it two times here,which absolutely irks me.
(42:49):
I don't like it.
However, the first time actuallymakes a little sense for two
reasons.
Number one, it's, there's asurprise.
So makes a little sense.
But number two.
Is it gave us a opportunity tosee the names of the phenomenal
people, like a Hannah Beachleror Ruthie Carter before we see
(43:13):
that scene.
And I'm looking at that.
Oh, Ruth did this.
Oh.
Oh, Hannah did that.
So I'm okay with that first one,but that second one, come on.
I just want you to say could wejust stop that?
I like my movies to just go frombeginning to end.
Just stop it.
So in my rating is out of afour, four scale and I gave it a
(43:34):
3.5 out of four reels.
Not because it's not a four,just because it's scared.
The bejesus outta me.
I took a half off.
I just took a half off becauseI'm like, YIIA.
Kathia Woods (43:44):
This was not that bad.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (43:46):
Okay.
It
Kathia Woods (43:47):
was not that bad.
Now I wonder if was a scene,hold on next man.
Hold your hand on,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (43:52):
hold on.
You saying it wasn't that bad?
There was a scene where somebodywas biting somebody on the neck
and I felt like.
I was being bit on the neck.
You didn't think it was thatbad.
That's just you.
I'm just saying I couldn'tsleep.
I did not get a good night'ssleep.
Those vampires just scared.
Kathia Woods (44:12):
You did.
You had your little garlicnecklace.
You were in there.
I was like, woo.
Donna, come in the house.
Don't invite nobody in.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (44:18):
Donna was gone.
I was asking my daughter, shouldshe come in the room and sleep
in the room with me because Iwas scared.
Uhuh.
No.
You saying one that day,
Kathia Woods (44:27):
Were you in there?
Were you saying like, don'tinvite nobody, nobody knew.
Come in the house if I don'tknow you, and if you constantly
asking me to invite you in,invite,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (44:37):
I put some blood across the top of
the threshold.
Put some on the bottom.
Did that
Kathia Woods (44:41):
make me think of the HBO O show, where he was
like, invite me in.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (44:44):
No.
So, so I love this movie though.
I might even possibly could getmyself to watch it again.
It was really good.
Ryan Cougar wrote somethingfantastic and these actors
really delivered on screen.
This is a film that people, Ihope, go see that first weekend,
and it is a film that will not,sometimes when we get these
(45:07):
films early in the year, wegotta go back.
We forget about them.
This is one of those that, thatpeople will not forget.
I loved it.
I'll leave that.
I gave
Kathia Woods (45:16):
it a four out of five.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I loved this for Ryan and itgoes to show what an amazing
filmmaker is and I'm with himlike, he's gonna make Black
Panther three, but I'm like, I'mmy man.
Do some other stuff.
Let him cook.
Let him use his creativity to dosome other stuff.
Let Black Panther three be thelast Black Panther that he
(45:39):
makes, and then hand it off tosomebody else and let him enjoy.
And be creative, like I do notwant him to be the black James
Gunton.
Well, all we getting outta himare superhero movies.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (45:50):
You're not.
'cause that's not what he'sgonna do is that Brock Heimer
and them get to keep doing thesetransformers or whatever,
whoever that is of doing theseTransformers 15 or whatever.
No.
Ride that horse and make yourmoney.
I was in an interview one timewith Blair Underwood and I asked
him what was his pet project andhe said, he told me a couple of
(46:12):
things that he wanted to do andthen he looked at me.
He said, but I gotta do some ofthe things I need to do.
To be able to do some of thestuff that I want to do.
So Ryan ride the Marvel trainand do all that other stuff
because he's gonna make enoughmoney that he can do those
things.
So no, I don't even want anybodyputting their hands on Black
(46:33):
Panther, Ryan, keep that BlackPanther for you.
I don't agree with Katya,whatever,
Kathia Woods (46:38):
but I do think, he is very thoughtful.
And also I love the fact thathe, I think, we get on black
filmmakers on how they, no, justfilmmakers, how they don't, they
give women nothing to do and hegives, I love the fact that you
have these two different loveinterests and they're different
type of women, but they're bothbeing shot and they're both
(46:58):
being loved and they're bothbeing cared for.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (47:01):
I thought all the women in this
film had a impact on the film.
Is that you got some, Hailey.
You have ney, you have Jamie andthen the the woman who would
tell her husband to go out andget the car.
What are you doing?
Do not tell people to go tell,but I understood that'cause she
(47:21):
wanted to protect her daughter.
But you know, once you sent yourhusband out there anyway I felt
that this was just awell-rounded film and it will
not be forgotten when we get to,to award season, I think.
Kathia Woods (47:37):
No, and I definitely agree with you.
This was a good one.
'cause it is dry here with blackfilms.
This here y'all we got aboutthree.
This is one of three.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (47:46):
Well,
Kathia Woods (47:46):
so I'm just letting y'all know like we got
this, we got him and we have IsGoddess that's it.
There're, I'm sorry.
And Spike Lee's films.
So we got four black films.
So do with that at what youwould like to do with that.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (48:02):
Well, well, that's it.
That, that's gonna be our showfor this week.
You see, we had a lot to talkabout with this movie Center.
Ho Centers hope that you go outand check it out.
I'm Reggie Ponder, the realcritic.
You can find me on Twitter,Instagram, and YouTube.
Oh and on Blue Sky, which Ithink I even made one post just
(48:23):
recently, so you could find meat the real critic.
And that's REEL Kathia.
Where can they find you?
Kathia Woods (48:29):
They can find me on Instagram.
Facebook, blue Sky at like ofApartheid Boys app and TikTok at
everywhere.
It's Kathia_ wood.
Somebody took my Moniker onTikTok, so it's Kathia1970 on
TikTok we be having Oh, wow.
Time on TikTok.
I was like who's the woods overthere?
(48:50):
But it is what it's,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (48:51):
What's your what's the latest article
that you have out that peoplecan check out as well?
Kathia Woods (48:54):
You can read my Sinners review at the Sacramento
Observer, which will be in hardbody this week as well.
It's already up online.
My interview with Ryan Cooglerand Michael B.
Jordan is in today's issue ofthe Tribune, and it is also up
online.
I we did ours audio because Ryanwas in the car, but we made it
(49:16):
work.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (49:17):
Well, that's our show.
as you can see we had a lot offun.
We got two critics, twoopinions, but one mission where
dialogue engages.
This is the movies educates,entertains, and occasionally
escalates.
We will see you guys next time.
Hey, I'm Reggie Ponder the real
critic and welcome to the RealCritics Network.
I've been going for a minute'cause I was on vacation, but I
got my co who was me?
I got my co-host here, KathiaWoods and, Kathia.
how you doing?
Kathia Woods (00:15):
Good.
I traveled for work.
I still made all my zooms, butReggie said, I'm going to South
Africa.
You will not be here for meuntil I land back in America.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (00:27):
Look, so those
Kathia Woods (00:27):
of you that have been wondering, why has there
been laps?
It was not Ms.
Woods, Mr.
Ponder.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (00:33):
This was a, was traveling
Kathia Woods (00:34):
the globe, he was out here like Wildo.
Where is Reggie?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (00:38):
This was a trip 30 years in the
making.
So we've been trying to get toSouth Africa for a long time.
So we finally got therecelebrating my wife's birthday.
She was with her friends and allthat.
And actually that's a reallygood lead in to my, to our
segment of what's on my mind.
Because what's on my mind isactually South Africa.
(01:00):
It's Africa, in fact.
Is that the two trips that Itook, the trip we took in
November of last year to Kenyaand the trip we just took to
South Africa.
We learned a lot about historyand in all of the museums and
all the places that we traveled,they had movies, little short
movies about either apartheid,oppression, freedom, fighting
(01:24):
for their freedom.
And I will tell you is thatthese real life short
documentaries that they had inthe museums that we went into, I
learned a lot.
And when I say I learned a lot,we talk about how maybe we don't
learn enough about black historyhere.
(01:47):
Man, I didn't know half of thestuff as to how the United
States in our figures in theUnited States influenced a lot
of things that happened on thecontinent as well as how.
Apartheid in systems like thatwere mimicked after things that
happened on our continent in ourarea.
(02:09):
So I learned a lot, so muchstuff that's going through my
head and our movies, the moviesthat we see, like Cry Freedom
and things about Nelson Mandela.
Those movies don't even do thehistory justice.
They're a little piece.
But I'm so happy that I was ableto put my feet on the continent
(02:30):
and learn so much more aboutSouth Africa, about Ghana and I
hope to return.
So that's what's on my mind.
I'm still thinking about thecontinent.
Kathia Woods (02:42):
It's absolutely shameful.
A lot of people don't know thatNazi Germany looked at
segregation in the United Statesand said, Hey.
Let's look at, we can do that toJews and then took it up a
notch, right?
That is literally in the papersand in the architect of the
Holocaust, right?
(03:02):
We can look at how South Africalooked at again, the United
States with the apartheid andsaid, and Australia, for those
of you don't know, also had anapartheid system.
And not just how they treatedblack people, but the original
inhabitants, aboriginals, whichI think we gotta come up with a
better name than that.
(03:23):
And how they treated theoriginal Australians, right?
So a lot of this, when peoplesay we want to make America
great, or we want to have Africafor Africans, what do you mean,
beloved?
We need some clarity.
And I think like when people,our current leader, not to get
totally political, wants tobring certain people.
(03:44):
From certain African nations.
Those people and those Africannations are going, we don't
wanna come here, we good.
And I think what South Africadid was really smart, right?
And I feel like Brazil needsthat.
When, especially what I'm stillhere, where we talk about what
we touched upon so manyBrazilians that were disappeared
and were murdered and tortured,that the families never got a
(04:08):
body back what South Africa did.
By having those public hearings,to give people, say, we're gonna
give you immunity so that youcan tell the truth.
Not to absolve them of theirsins, but so these families can
get some closure to know whatwas done to their loved ones and
who did what so they, the worldand let the world in.
(04:28):
Because a lot of these peopleusually.
By people that were doing thewrong or the descendants were
doing the wrong.
Oh, it wasn't that bad.
Just like people, well, slaverywasn't that bad.
The slaves and the master wereliving together.
The slaves didn't wanna livethere.
They weren't there.
This was some kumbaya, they maywere making the best out of a
really horrible situation.
(04:48):
I think what they did is toreconcile, and I think that's
why their progress in some areasis better because they pulled a
bandaid back and they're willingto tell the truth about their
history.
As ugly as it is, no place isperfect.
But I do think that is part ofwhy they were able to.
(05:09):
And move forward.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
But I'm glad you had a goodtrip.
Trip and I'm glad that you andDonna had a good time.
Got some sun, some good food.
Now here's the question.
Reggie, did you go on Safari?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (05:20):
Okay.
So yes, Reggie did go on safariand I was scared as all get out.
For people who are just tuninginto this podcast, I am a
scaredy cat.
I'll be talking about that inrelationship to the movies.
I'll be talking out inrelationship to walking down the
street.
(05:41):
I am a scaredy cat.
And speaking of cats, one of thefirst animals we saw on Safari
were the lions.
And the lions, we were so closethat if I put my hand out of the
don't do that vehicle, if I did,they would've had them, some
(06:02):
Reggie and bits.
At one point.
I have a video as we'retracking, moving alongside of
the lions where the lion islike, yeah, I'm chilling.
This is my world.
And all of a sudden he turnstoward me.
I jumped back so fast becausehe, it just looked like he was
(06:23):
just gonna jump right into thevehicle and have him some Reggie
and bitch, not Reggie and bitch,just some Reggie and I,
everybody laughing at me becauseI am such the scaredy cat.
So yes, we saw the lions, theleopards, the.
Giraffes, elephants.
(06:44):
These
Kathia Woods (06:44):
giraffes are amazing.
Oh, you got ama.
All of it is amazing.
But I'm sure you probably werelike, listen, don't get no
ideas.
Don't put your hand out here.
Don't be trying to feed anybody'cause I will feed you.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (06:56):
I'll feed you one of these other
people that's in this vehicle.
It, it really was great.
We went to on three safaris, wewent one to one in the
afternoon, one in the earlymorning and then one at night.
And the one in the afternoon wesaw a lot.
The one in the early morning wesaw a lot.
But the one at night, did yousee elephants?
(07:16):
Huh?
Kathia Woods (07:17):
Did you see elephants?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (07:18):
Lots of them.
Lots of them.
I
Kathia Woods (07:20):
know Reggie was like, so what part of the
feeding cycle are we coming in?
Did everybody eat before we go
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (07:27):
out there?
For, for sure.
And there was one time when the,our vehicle almost cut off the
baby elephant from the herd.
And we were in danger becausethose elephants turned around
like, wait, what?
What's going on?
What's, and they're
Kathia Woods (07:44):
fast.
People don't, and you feel itlike the grounds are shaking.
Like you're like, Ooh, ooh, holdon this jeep.
I don't think it's faster thanthat.
Those an, a lot of people don'trealize, number one, elephant
moms are very protective.
They are fast.
They will hurt you and review itlater.
So I know you were like, howfast does this thing go?
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (08:07):
We were the montagues and the
caplets, we saw that fight withthe, between the baboons'cause
they were fighting overterritory.
And we saw that fight there.
So it, it was, it really wasamazing.
The views were fantastic.
I'll share some pictures as forsure.
So it was great.
(08:27):
And with that, this week.
Talking about being proud
Kathia Woods (08:31):
of you.
Proud of you.
Because I know you were like,what?
Three What?
Why can't we just do one allinclusive?
But I'm proud of you.
Oh,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (08:39):
You are right In my head, I was
hoping how could we just do onesafari?
One Safari is good enough.
I don't need to get that closeto the animals.
Animals.
I just don't,
Kathia Woods (08:50):
that's how we know we, we African, but we ain't
damn type by African.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (08:55):
I don't need to get that close.
So it was fantastic.
We had a great time and ofcourse I'll share some pictures
and for people who might want tosee that out, I'll try to share
some on mywebsite@reggieponder.com.
I didn't think about that, butI'll share some pictures there
so people can check out some ofthose pictures.
With that, talking about being ascary cat, let's move into our
movie SEC segment and this weekwe are only gonna talk about, or
(09:19):
at least in this segment, we'reonly gonna talk about one movie.
And that movie is centers.
This is a much anticipated film.
Everybody's been talking aboutit, everybody's been waiting for
it.
And everybody except me hasinterviewed somebody from the
movie.
So I'm gonna give this one toyou first, Katya.
(09:39):
'cause you probably interviewedeverybody in their mother on
this film.
Yes.
Kathia Woods (09:43):
I talked to Michael B.
Jordan.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (09:45):
Oh my goodness.
Kathia Woods (09:46):
And I talked to Ryan Coogler.
So we had a really good, we hada good time talking about how
Mike prepared.
He had a dialect coach and hehad a twin coach so that he
could he worked with identicaltwins to talk about the
mannerism and their interaction.
I love how they had, how RuthCarter, who was on costumes made
(10:10):
sure how, even though they knowthey had different style,
whereas the one twin is moreoutgoing and more playful and
whereas the other twin is morecautious and more serious.
Right.
I'm not gonna give it away who,does what.
But I think that, each one of'em, I think I said, I think
this is Mike's most vulnerableand layered, because he's
(10:33):
somebody like with Creed, a lotof it was his physicality,
right?
And he is a handsome guy.
There's nothing you can sayabout it.
But I feel like a lot of timesthey played on that.
Even in as Killmonger, theyplayed on his physicality.
With this, it was more him beinghe was not as bulky and him
being a little bit morevulnerable in certain parts.
(10:54):
Also, there are so many parts ofit that I love, like.
It really depicts small southernblack towns.
If if you've been down southwhere you like, this is it.
This is the whole town.
Everybody knows everybody.
Everybody knows everybody'sbusiness.
The gangsters know everybody.
There's a scene where somebody'srobbing somebody and they said,
Hey, is that you?
(11:16):
Oh man.
Oh, I didn't know it was you.
Not saying I'm wrong forstealing, but had I known I
wouldn't have robbed you.
It's that type of vernacularwhere you know, everybody in
that town has their skills.
So I'm gonna need you to bringthis.
I'm gonna need you to fry thefish.
I'm gonna need you to handle thedoor.
Do you know what I mean?
So it is there's gonna be a lotof characteristics of that film
(11:38):
where you're like, I know thesepeople.
I know who they are.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
I know people like that minusthe scary part,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (11:45):
a absolutely.
And I want to step back for asecond and just tell people
who's in this film other thanMichael B.
Jordan.
You have Miles Caton, who is a,I guess, a prodigy, if you will.
And while he is great musically,they didn't lean into that as,
(12:06):
as much.
They allowed this guy to act.
He had to come and bring morethan his musical skills to this
film.
They had Haley Steinfeld as, aswell as one of the love
interests they had.
Jack O'Connell, who scared thebejesus outta me.
Then the person that I love, Idon't, I can't say the most, but
ney.
Moku, oh my goodness.
(12:28):
She looked beautiful.
She was strong.
What she brought to this filmwas just fantastic.
And then Jamie Lawson made mejust want to get married all
over again.
I was like, she is,
Kathia Woods (12:39):
she's one of those actresses.
We saw her in Malcolm X MLKX.
We saw her in the woman came.
She's one of those actresses.
I feel like she is one roll awayfrom that big breakout role.
Right.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (12:54):
I totally, she's
Kathia Woods (12:54):
always good and she's always steady and the
camera loves her, like herwhole.
Cheekbone her whole, she's justbeautiful.
She really
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (13:03):
is.
And I want to go back to talkingabout beautiful.
'cause ney looked phenomenal tome.
I, the way in which this filmwas shot let me finish the
people.
Nevermind.
I'm about to get ahead of myselfthen.
Then there's someone we all knowwho's Omar, Benson Miller, who's
in it.
And you love Omar e.
Every time he plays a role Ilike him.
(13:25):
And then you get the cherry ontop, the.
I don't know the thing that capsthe whole movie, Delroy, Lindo,
OMG.
When you look at the entirecast, when you look at this
entire cast, what they broughtto this film makes you want to
stay with it, makes you wantmore of it.
(13:46):
The casting in this is great.
Which by the way, Kathia, I amso happy that the Oscar, the
Academy, a awards have decidedto add a casting category
because I know that Cooglerdidn't have to run out and find
Michael B.
Jordan, but all these otherpeople had to be cast and the
(14:08):
casting directors should get thekind of credit that they should
get.
So it's,
Kathia Woods (14:12):
yes, I said that.
I said, how come is it that youcan have black directors that
can have a diverse cast andeverybody makes sense?
Like nobody's just there to bebackground dancers.
Do you know what I mean?
And I feel like.
That's because it's sointentional and it's, you have
Asian, you have, which is themakeup of the delta because of
(14:35):
you have Asian migrationmultiple times in history that
attracted them, right?
Because fishing water made sensefor that culture.
And also the effect, the, howthe white people were used.
It wasn't just done as like,Hey, I just wanna have white
people and we're gonna trashwhite people.
Like they had a purpose inthere.
(14:57):
So I agree with you thatcasting, and again mo miles
Canton was an absolute gem of afine, like, shout out to whoever
found him like.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (15:07):
He, I think he was traveling with
her at age 16 or 13 or somethingof that nature.
But, so he's been a, from amusical perspective a, he's been
on the map.
But from an acting perspective,I totally agree with you to
think that, this is my guy.
This is the guy that, that we'regonna get.
So from many of you who don'tknow what this movie is about,
(15:30):
it is about these two twins whoare played by Michael B.
Jordan.
It's Smoke and Stack.
I like that by the way.
I re I really like that.
But they're returning fromChicago to their hometown of
Mississippi to start all over.
But all is not what it seems.
It's not going, it's clear thatthey're running away from
something, but it's not clearwhat they are running into.
(15:52):
And that, and what they'rerunning into might be a bit more
evil than where they came from.
They, the movie says, you keepdancing with the devil one day
he gonna follow you home.
Oh.
And so I liked a lot about this.
I like the writing first, and Italk to you about this all the
time.
I think that the, if it's, ifthe writing is good, if the
(16:17):
writing is great, you have amuch better chance of having a
film that resonates and ittouches people.
And I think Coler, whoa, hewrote the heck outta this one.
It's, there's, to me, there's ahistory lesson, there's a
cautionary tale and scary cat.
Reggie, there's a nightmare andit is all at once.
(16:37):
So I think the writing in thiswas just great.
Kathia Woods (16:40):
I just think he was free because this is his
first standalone film sinceFruitville Station.
And it's not to say that thework he did in those other
movies wasn't good, but withCreed, he had to look at the
rocky pictures to make sure, tomake sense, to have Adonis be in
this pocket, right.
(17:01):
Then you have with blackPanther, the IP is the comic
books, right?
To make sure that you stay trueto the comic books.
So it is a lot of, where he hadto work with the given material.
This is all out of his cranium.
And I think he really wanted abreak from comic book world and
(17:21):
living up to other people'sexpectations.
He wanted to do his own thingand I love that, where he was
like, I just wanna make a movieabout something that's in my
brain and something that hasbeen on my heart and again,
celebrates my culture,celebrates my, my people.
And I think all of that isreally fantastic.
(17:43):
You know what I mean?
Where you don't have to, whereyou can show how strong of a
creative you are.
And I agree with you.
I was saying to Ryan, I said, Ilove, in the cinematography, his
attention to detail.
Anybody's ever been in the deepsouth.
I'm talking Mississippi,Louisiana, like Alabama.
There's a difference betweenthat South and North Carolina.
(18:05):
I'm talking about that small,southern deep, that humidity.
Woo.
There's a reason why some of usare like, sir, I, you want me to
be outside to do what?
So I can just be sitting,getting bit by bugs.
And that is, it's like it takesa different types of tolerance
and the way that he captured it.
(18:25):
And it's also, I would say it's,that's a certain cadence.
Right, because people say NewOrleans cadence is different
than small town rural cadence.
The way people talk, the waypeople move, the way people
interact, right?
Like how often have you been ifyou had a chance to go to that
(18:47):
park, right?
Because, we always 90 miles perhour city folk, and they tell
you, well, you gonna have toslow down.
You are in the south now, right?
You gonna have to, it's a total,it's a total difference way to
spell right.
And in your mind you're like,that's, these people don't care
that you want something in fiveminutes.
They're gonna give it to youwhen they're ready to give it to
you.
I wanna
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (19:07):
jump in though, because you were just
talking about how this was shot.
The way this is shot visuallyshows a proud people, a
determined people a.
A purposeful people.
And I think that wholecombination of closeups, you
look at the costume, the setdesign, the makeup, it clearly
(19:28):
says that these guys were notjust making a film that
entertains, but one whichcelebrates the richness of our
being.
And so I want to just shout outsome of those people.
When you look at Autumn Doral,al, what she did from a syn
cinematic perspective, it was Ithink masterful.
Oh,
Kathia Woods (19:48):
I agree.
Because you know what?
You believe that they're in thisenvironment and this community
is the community, even thoughit's a fictional town.
But you can tell that shestudied and she understands that
there's a certain way that thishas to be shot in other people
who are from those areas.
(20:10):
Can relate.
And also to help people whoaren't understand why they're
moving
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (20:15):
the way that they're moving a
Absolutely.
And then you talked about RuthieCarter.
Those costumes were phenomenal.
I, it felt like we were in thattime and in fact, to me, the
first half of this felt like aperiod piece the first half
until the second half.
And they tried to scare the beJesus Outta Me and Hannah
(20:37):
Beachler.
So, so we're
Kathia Woods (20:38):
the design the store, like, come on.
Those still exist.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (20:45):
So we get Academy Award winner
Hannah Beachler two Time AcademyAward winner Ruthie Carter.
We get, I think also Two TimeAcademy Award winner.
I always mess up his name.
The, for the Music, Ludwig, The,but how do you pronounce his
last name?
Renson.
Kathia Woods (21:02):
I gotta look it up.
Hold on.
Yeah.
Lou
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (21:04):
would lu.
So you get you are getting theselike top of the top people.
And I want tell you, I think allof them just brought it, yeah.
E every last one of them broughtit.
I guess the other thing that,that I want to mention is that I
(21:25):
think that Coler boldly putseverything on display here.
He shows the laughter and thetears, the good and the evil the
joy and the pain, and you cansee it.
And it to me goes back to whatyou were saying a little
earlier, that we know thesepeople, we know that even though
they were dealing with racism,they were still in the cotton
(21:45):
fields working hard.
That there still was some joy.
We saw the pain, but we stillsaw the joy.
We saw laughter in tears.
There's this one scene in thecotton field where, one
character is being asked to comealong and his wife is working
there as well.
And it was like, you gonna makea lot of money?
And he's like, I ain't goingnowhere.
I'm gonna stay with my wife.
(22:06):
And the wife was looking like,you better go on out there and
make that money.
It was hilarious.
They just did such a good job.
And I think that what Coler didis created a conversation with
the audience about theconnection to music and how it
bridges the past and the future.
He was real imaginative byshowing that from the drums of
(22:28):
Africa to the hip hop of todayto even some of the cultures
from an Asian perspective, hehad it in there.
And it is very, I thought justvery well done the way.
Oh, I agree.
Kathia Woods (22:40):
I think that's also a bigger conversation.
I tell people.
There's always this complexityfor us as black people.
Why we clinging to Christianityso much?
Because it's a religion that wasforced upon us, right?
And why we speak so negativelyupon the spirituality of the
ancestors, right?
(23:00):
I'm like, who's depiction andwhose vision of our original
spirituality is it?
This idea that we were out hereslaughtering people and eating
people.
That's not our perspective.
That doesn't come from ourcommunity, that comes from
Europeans who used that picturein order to force us into their
Christianity.
(23:21):
Right?
And I'm not saying if you're aChristian, I'm gonna be very
clear.
You practice whatever religionyou wanna practice.
Like, I'm not here to say one isbetter than the other, but we
have yet to resolute with thefact that those of us that, that
want to.
Hearken back to our originalspirituality.
Right.
I was saying, like, people weresaying, well, in, in the South,
(23:42):
you see people practice that.
I said, but it is not officiallya tax-exempt religion.
It is frowned upon to publiclysay that you practice voodoo or
whatever it is.
Right.
It is.
And I just wanna It's did youconsidered, you're considered
what's, what You said itearlier.
It is part the whole thing thatyou're dancing with the devil
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (24:05):
And the interjection is that in my
review I said that Coler was notafraid of celebrating parts of
our culture.
The mainstream society mightfrown upon and you hit right
upon it.
He displays our belief in thespirits and demons.
He shows how we would castspells to keep him away.
I believe that simply byshowcasing those customs and
practices, he declared thatthey're an asset versus
(24:28):
something to be ashamed of orsimply demonic.
And I think that's a boldstatement.
He did not shy away from showingthat part.
So I'm really glad that youmentioned that.
Kathia Woods (24:37):
Oh, 100%.
I did too.
In my review, I'm like, what doyou think all those people are
doing?
When you go to Brazil andeverybody's wearing white and
they're all at the beach,they're not in there just to
jump into the water'causethey're bored.
It's something to do.
They're there for a purpose.
The ANA are dressed in white.
They have the flowers.
They're giving an offering tothe goddess of the ca manja for
(24:58):
protection into the new year forblessings into the two new year.
It's very common in Brazilpeople don't go see
psychiatrists like they go herein the United States.
They go see the voodoo priestessand still go to church on
Sunday.
The two are not conflicting.
It's very common.
For them to work in unison.
So I think what he's doing isforcing us to have a
(25:19):
conversation to reflect uponthat and to stop being shameful
of it, because who are thepeople that are making us feel
shameful about where we comefrom?
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
We're all taking trips toAfrica, but are we really
leaning into that?
You know what I mean?
It's very common when peoplewere enslaved or people were
(25:42):
sold, that your mother or themothers would put a protection
pouch on their children, ontheir loved ones.
You know what I mean?
That is just the ancestors andthose to have protection over
you.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So I think that is, I hope itopens up a opportunity for us to
(26:03):
have more discussion and toreally stop being shameful.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (26:10):
I think that's exactly what Co
Kugler was trying to do.
I will say that, and I said thisearlier, is that these two
movies for me, and I don't thinkit was for everybody, but for
me, they were two differenthalves.
The first part to me was likethis period piece where I was
learn learning who the peoplewere, figuring out if I liked,
which who I liked, if I likedany one of those twins, by the
(26:32):
way I was trying to figure itout, but I was like, oh man,
it's vibrant.
It's showing our culture.
It's showing who we are.
That second half, oh, there's ascene where I jumped outta my
seat.
I'm sitting next to one of ourfellow critics and he laughs up
a storm.
He sent me a text messagesaying, okay.
Scary Kat.
(26:53):
All of my friends saw me movingand squirming and doing
everything in my seat.
That second half is a differentmovie to me.
I think he made it work becauseby laying the foundation of who
these people were, when we gotto that other part, that scary
part, and I won't tell you a lotabout it'cause I think you need
(27:13):
to go see it for yourself.
Ooh girl.
I was like, he made me questionwhether, how we are living as a
people, but even if we want tocontinue living in a particular
state, if you get what I mean.
So I might
Kathia Woods (27:29):
oh, for sure.
I, the other thing I wanna sayis I love how smoke and step
moved, these are two black menin the segregated south that
were not out here bending theknee for nobody.
And remember I, Reggie, I wantedto see if you caught that line
when he, when Miles Stantonasked him, smoker Sex was in the
car with him.
And he was like, so what wasChicago like?
(27:52):
Right?
And he said, and I'mparaphrasing, same thing, just
with higher buildings.
In other words, this idea ofthat a lot of people from the
south thinking they were gonnago to the north and they were
gonna have these freedoms, andhe's like, same is just
different day.
Basically what he was saying.
And I myself, wow, I hope peopleare catching that.
(28:16):
You know what I mean?
He was like, we went up therelooking for these things and I
think what the twins weresaying, what Ryan was trying to
say is they came back home.
'cause they're like, at leasthere we know everybody.
They said it.
They said, why?
Everybody's, why.
Everybody's on the, we know howeverybody moves and we know what
everybody's position is up thereis constantly like, it's like
(28:37):
double Dutch, but one day thisperson's on your side, this
other person's on your side.
So I thought that was reallysmart.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (28:42):
Yeah, it they said specifically we
rather deal with the devil thatwe know.
Kathia Woods (28:48):
And that's so true, but again, these two, when
they were even negotiating withthe white man for their venue,
right.
I had to think of the wordvenue.
I was about to say Shaq.
No, it's venue.
They knew that.
Yeah.
They still had to look outbecause this was too, when he's
trying to say, oh, the Klan ison the gone, they're like, yeah,
(29:08):
we gonna, we wanna do businesswith you today, but we still we
don't trust you.
They were ready for whatever.
Yeah.
He was gonna bring,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (29:15):
They, they were definitely ready for
that.
I think that Coler really didgive us something to, excuse the
pun, to ponder.
Because when we think about the,our music today what Miles was
going through as Sammy, he wasstruggling between should I use
my music for good, which is forGod with my father.
(29:38):
Or should I use my music forwhat I'm feeling, which is a
little more what she cannerysex, sin all that other stuff.
And one of the twins even tellshim at one point, dude, you
don't want, you don't want, youain't about this, you don't want
this kinda life.
You need to go back, use thatmusic with your dad.
(29:59):
But that was the thing that wastearing Sammy up, where, how do
I use this gift that I'm given?
And it, when we look at our,even our music today I even the
music we grew up on, I'm nottrying to say the music today is
worse than the music back then,I don't want to have that
(30:20):
argument.
'cause we had that argument allthe time.
And you, the music person, youthe person who studies music.
So I'm not gonna have thatargument, but I really could
feel how that battle between.
How risk risque I get with mymusic and how secular I am
versus how proud and playful Iam with my music.
(30:42):
So, I could see that andMichael,
Kathia Woods (30:44):
I think it's still a conversation.
We know so many people that knewsecular music got their start in
their church.
You, they're frowned upon whenyou're not using the gift.
When they have bad thingshappen.
That's because you turn to thedevil's music.
And I'm always like, my comebackfor that always has been a Well,
how do we know that God didn'tgive the person the gift to
(31:04):
reach your bigger audience?
Right?
Whereas if you, if we, withinthe church, you're only reaching
church people, but when you aredoing secular music, right, not
necessarily participating indebauchery, how is your
testimony any less when you'rereaching a bigger crowd?
You know what I mean?
And it isn't.
And what is the point of beingof the church if you're still
(31:26):
leading a sinful life?
But if you doing something rightfrom your place of earnest and
place of decency and reallywanting to bring joy to people,
but you're living your life forpurpose, you're giving back to
the community and that, how areyou gonna need less of a
Christian?
So I think that's theconversation that's an ongoing
conversation that we're stillhaving today.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (31:46):
It's, and the pushback would be is
that, that how far that so manyof our people who start out of
the church and move into secsecular music, they end up
getting too caught up in that.
And so we it is a questionarytale because we've seen, you've
been hipping me to all thesedifferent documentaries and when
(32:08):
we watch these documentaries ofsome of our musical legends, you
see that the, that.
That life grabbed him as opposedto the music grabbing other
people.
Yeah.
So, and
Kathia Woods (32:19):
we can, yeah, and we can also say that some people
that stick to just doing gospelmusic get caught up in the fame
too.
It's, I don't think necessarilyit's a type of music.
It's how you handle growingfame, popularity and all that.
And if your foundation is shaky.
Right.
And I think for Sammy, it waslike, well, if God gave me this
(32:40):
gift, right, why would he wantme just to keep it here on in,
in this church?
Why wouldn't he want me to shareit with more people?
Do you know what I mean?
And I think that's aconversation and also a
conversation that we have asparents.
You and I've had it, offline.
We have to allow our kids tofind their own way.
(33:03):
That doesn't mean that they'rewrong, that doesn't mean they're
not off God.
Different, doesn't mean betteror worse, but we all have the
right to have autonomy over ourlives and make decisions for
ourselves.
And if we truly love ourchildren and we have faith in
the teachings, we be stood uponthem, then we should have faith
that they're gonna go throughthe world and be okay.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (33:23):
I, yeah, you and I bounce this one
back and forth.
I will say maybe we'll havefaith that they'll be okay but
we do try to tell'em, look,there's a wall in front of you.
There is a wall in front of youand we are here to let you know
that there's a wall in front ofyou hoping that you're gonna
listen to us.
So you don't have to hit thewall.
Now we gonna be here once youhit the wall and try to help
(33:45):
you.
But we don't want to have tosay, I told you so I told you
not to do that.
Right.
Your,
Kathia Woods (33:50):
my love is not conditioned upon our kids doing
what we think they should do.
And I feel like in Sammy's case,his father was basically saying,
if you're going to be my son.
You have to do what I think youshould do.
And I don't think that's right.
I think for me, I'm speaking forme, Kathe, I don't think that is
not love because it either wesay we love our children, right?
(34:12):
And we don't always have toagree the path that they take.
And in some cases we were wrong.
In some cases our kids took adifferent path and it turned out
quite right and quite successfulfor them.
So I think that is also.
And I get it.
You and I have had discussionsof we get it where it comes
from.
Right?
We are fearful for our children,especially in that time, right?
(34:33):
We're fearful for all thehorrible things that can happen
to them.
We are fearful that they won'thave community there to protect
them and love them.
And even now, like, when we weregrowing up, you and I are Gen
Xers, when our parents werelike, get a good job because
they knew what it was like notto have security, not that
benefits.
And here we have an opportunityof access to that and we wanna
say, oh, I wanna do somethingcreative.
(34:54):
Why would you wanna do somethingfoolish like that?
Well, you can have a pensionwhen you can have house
insurance, right?
So all of these discussions, Ifeel like.
There's no right and wrong,right?
No.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (35:04):
There's no right.
There's
Kathia Woods (35:05):
no right and wrong, but it's an ongoing dance
with
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (35:08):
us as black people.
That's it.
It is.
And what I wanna say as itrelates to the movie is that in
this case, Sammy's father isright.
You gotta be you have to becareful'cause the devil might
follow you home.
Kathia Woods (35:21):
Yes and no.
Yes and no way.
Uhuh there ain't no yes or no.
He was halfway right.
Was
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (35:25):
it is a yes.
He was like, love the way yougoing.
The devil's coming along withyou and you, if you going to do
that, don't come around here.
'cause I don't want the devil upin end.
Kathia Woods (35:38):
He was right or wrong.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (35:39):
Yes and no.
He was right.
Dude was right.
Kathia Woods (35:42):
Yes and no.
Reggie Ponder, The Re (35:43):
Whatever.
Anyway, so as we talk aboutwhat's not to like about this
film, there were a couple ofthings that I won't say I, I
disliked, but that.
Made me pause.
And the first one is I've, whichis I already talked about, which
is I felt like that it was twofilms and because I felt that it
(36:04):
was two films.
So some people, I think thetransition might not have been
as smooth.
I have heard some talk aboutthat.
For me, it worked.
It worked.
But the it does feel like twodifferent films.
I could see a whole film on eachone of those done.
About just the life inMississippi from the from a
period piece perspective aboutsmoke and Stack and what they
(36:25):
did and how they went around.
But I also could see this otherfilm about vampires and all.
I could see a whole film on thatas well.
I feel
Kathia Woods (36:33):
like he used, do you think I feel like he used a
mythology and the vampire, Idon't necessarily think of this
as a horror film, right?
I think he used a mythology ofvampires to talk about maybe I'm
out here by myself.
The wickedness and thehatefulness of racism.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (36:55):
You know what I totally feel that I,
that's not where I first camefrom, but I can buy that.
I, and I think because I went
Kathia Woods (37:02):
into it like you, I'm thinking like, okay we set
in the stage who's who in all ofthis, right?
And then second half of thefilm, we gonna find out that I
thought it was gonna be like,some of our Kim folk ain't skim
folk, but we then I was like,oh, Ryan, I'm with you.
I see where you doing this, butyou like literally saying that
(37:23):
they don't like that these twoNegroes are up here a little bit
too uppity.
They're up there walking tall,toting guns, talking to people
in a certain way.
You know what I mean?
Like, he really, like when theywere negotiating the fee for the
venue, they were not talking tothat man like, yes sir.
They were talking to that man asequals.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (37:42):
No.
Did, because I think that's agreat take.
I think
Kathia Woods (37:45):
that's a, and I'm thinking to myself, so he
basically is saying, when, as wegive, hopefully by the time you
hear this podcast, you'll seenthe film when they first meet
them folks, right?
They're like, well, we wannacome in, we like to partake.
They're like nah you wouldn'tlike this.
Right?
And then I'm saying to myself,he's saying he don't like the,
(38:09):
I'm thinking Ryan is using themto say he don't like the idea of
these black folks finding a wayto make money, finding a way to
have a business, the audacity tohave a spot without coming to
asking and asking ourpermission, they're doing their
own thing.
I,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (38:25):
I could totally see that the way I
looked at it was a little bitdifferently.
A just a little bit differently.
But I think it's, it.
Congruent with what you'resaying.
The way I looked at it was theywere saying that smoking them
were saying, oh, we ain'tletting these white people up in
here.
'cause when we let white peopleup in our stuff, it always
messes up our stuff.
(38:45):
That's
Kathia Woods (38:45):
true.
I mean that they also, like, wegotta, also gotta remember
Right, you are 100%.
I thought that too.
They're like, listen, black andwhite people didn't mix like
that.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Crit (38:53):
We not letting you guys up in here
because we already know you'regonna mess up our stuff.
And they, even when you
Kathia Woods (38:58):
gonna want to take a cut from the money, that's the
main part.
They're like, not only is itgonna bring the police, you
gonna wanna cut into our money.
They even talked about, get twopartners here.
They
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (39:08):
even talked about that some where
they said, once we let whitefolks in here and if.
One of us looks at the whitewoman the wrong way, one of us
touches.
All of a sudden the wholedynamics of having fun, being
loose and free and enjoying ourpeople and our culture just goes
to pot.
It goes by the wayside.
(39:29):
So, I, but I do think that youryour interpretation is that
they're not mutually exclusive.
That both of'em can worktogether.
I just looked at it like, nah,we ain't letting these white
folks.
Or even
Kathia Woods (39:40):
like, when you think about it, remember we
didn't talk about Hailey'scharacter place, Mary, but she
came in, they were like, nah,girl.
Like we know.
They're like, but you know me.
They're like, we know you, butyou can't, girl.
You might, but your complexionis throwing off the whole
situation.
You got to go.
Yeah.
We know you, but them folksshould the clan, whoever come
(40:02):
through here, they're gonna belike.
That's not gonna fly, so youcan't come through.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I love how this movie,speaking of Haley Feld has
helped her lean in and embraceher heritage.
'cause a lot of people don'tknow that she's got black DNA in
her'cause I know.
Some black folks are going like,why is this white lady Harper
(40:23):
white, this white lady in thismovie?
Because this is, she just likeMary has black heritage in her.
She has black, on her mother'sside, she's Filipino.
And on her mother's side hergrandfather was black.
So this allowed her to have aconversation within her family,
(40:46):
a little bit out like Rebeccadid with passing.
To lean in and be like, well,why have we shied away from
this?
And for her to have someanswers.
And I think that's beautiful.
And I think that shows a lotabout Hailey, who she's as a
person because, and also showsRyan how intentional he could
have just hired any white lady,right?
He made
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (41:06):
sure.
He thought about that.
He
Kathia Woods (41:07):
thought about all of that.
He thought about that because wedon't understand, just like I,
you know how we people, I'm 100%African, sir.
The moment we left the continentand we had our involuntary
migration, not all of us ceasedto be 100% black.
Some of us just have moremelanin than others.
But it's been a long time sinceyou, especially the way we
(41:30):
interact and mix, since you were100% African.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (41:34):
Yeah no, no doubt.
So there are two other thingsthat I want to points I wanna
make before we wrap it up.
And I, and this is related to myscary cat nature, I can't even
lie to you.
I was a bit confused as to whatTwin was loving, what woman was
and the reason I was, becausethere were a couple of times in
the film where I'm covering myeyes because I was so scared.
(41:56):
I was like, is smoke with Mary?
Is I, so I got, I did get alittle bit confused, but that's
just on me'cause I'm just ascary cat.
Right.
And you will hear Katia fromsome of our fellow critics, you
should have seen Reggie in thetheater.
They were, I got text messagesfrom them saying.
(42:17):
Dude, you are definitely a scarycatt.
What's up with
Kathia Woods (42:21):
that?
So we're not, so when JordanPeel's hymn drops, you not gonna
be in there.
You just gonna be in there like,I don't think I'm
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (42:26):
gonna watch.
I don't even think I'm gonnawatch it.
And then the last thing that Iwanna mention is I am, I think
Ryan did this because he's beenin the Marvel franchise, but I
am not, I repeat, I am not a fanof the after credit, mid credit
continuation.
I am just not a fan of it.
And they do it two times here,which absolutely irks me.
(42:49):
I don't like it.
However, the first time actuallymakes a little sense for two
reasons.
Number one, it's, there's asurprise.
So makes a little sense.
But number two.
Is it gave us a opportunity tosee the names of the phenomenal
people, like a Hannah Beachleror Ruthie Carter before we see
(43:13):
that scene.
And I'm looking at that.
Oh, Ruth did this.
Oh.
Oh, Hannah did that.
So I'm okay with that first one,but that second one, come on.
I just want you to say could wejust stop that?
I like my movies to just go frombeginning to end.
Just stop it.
So in my rating is out of afour, four scale and I gave it a
(43:34):
3.5 out of four reels.
Not because it's not a four,just because it's scared.
The bejesus outta me.
I took a half off.
I just took a half off becauseI'm like, YIIA.
Kathia Woods (43:44):
This was not that bad.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (43:46):
Okay.
It
Kathia Woods (43:47):
was not that bad.
Now I wonder if was a scene,hold on next man.
Hold your hand on,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cr (43:52):
hold on.
You saying it wasn't that bad?
There was a scene where somebodywas biting somebody on the neck
and I felt like.
I was being bit on the neck.
You didn't think it was thatbad.
That's just you.
I'm just saying I couldn'tsleep.
I did not get a good night'ssleep.
Those vampires just scared.
Kathia Woods (44:12):
You did.
You had your little garlicnecklace.
You were in there.
I was like, woo.
Donna, come in the house.
Don't invite nobody in.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (44:18):
Donna was gone.
I was asking my daughter, shouldshe come in the room and sleep
in the room with me because Iwas scared.
Uhuh.
No.
You saying one that day,
Kathia Woods (44:27):
Were you in there?
Were you saying like, don'tinvite nobody, nobody knew.
Come in the house if I don'tknow you, and if you constantly
asking me to invite you in,invite,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (44:37):
I put some blood across the top of
the threshold.
Put some on the bottom.
Did that
Kathia Woods (44:41):
make me think of the HBO O show, where he was
like, invite me in.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Cri (44:44):
No.
So, so I love this movie though.
I might even possibly could getmyself to watch it again.
It was really good.
Ryan Cougar wrote somethingfantastic and these actors
really delivered on screen.
This is a film that people, Ihope, go see that first weekend,
and it is a film that will not,sometimes when we get these
(45:07):
films early in the year, wegotta go back.
We forget about them.
This is one of those that, thatpeople will not forget.
I loved it.
I'll leave that.
I gave
Kathia Woods (45:16):
it a four out of five.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I loved this for Ryan and itgoes to show what an amazing
filmmaker is and I'm with himlike, he's gonna make Black
Panther three, but I'm like, I'mmy man.
Do some other stuff.
Let him cook.
Let him use his creativity to dosome other stuff.
Let Black Panther three be thelast Black Panther that he
(45:39):
makes, and then hand it off tosomebody else and let him enjoy.
And be creative, like I do notwant him to be the black James
Gunton.
Well, all we getting outta himare superhero movies.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (45:50):
You're not.
'cause that's not what he'sgonna do is that Brock Heimer
and them get to keep doing thesetransformers or whatever,
whoever that is of doing theseTransformers 15 or whatever.
No.
Ride that horse and make yourmoney.
I was in an interview one timewith Blair Underwood and I asked
him what was his pet project andhe said, he told me a couple of
(46:12):
things that he wanted to do andthen he looked at me.
He said, but I gotta do some ofthe things I need to do.
To be able to do some of thestuff that I want to do.
So Ryan ride the Marvel trainand do all that other stuff
because he's gonna make enoughmoney that he can do those
things.
So no, I don't even want anybodyputting their hands on Black
(46:33):
Panther, Ryan, keep that BlackPanther for you.
I don't agree with Katya,whatever,
Kathia Woods (46:38):
but I do think, he is very thoughtful.
And also I love the fact thathe, I think, we get on black
filmmakers on how they, no, justfilmmakers, how they don't, they
give women nothing to do and hegives, I love the fact that you
have these two different loveinterests and they're different
type of women, but they're bothbeing shot and they're both
(46:58):
being loved and they're bothbeing cared for.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel Criti (47:01):
I thought all the women in this
film had a impact on the film.
Is that you got some, Hailey.
You have ney, you have Jamie andthen the the woman who would
tell her husband to go out andget the car.
What are you doing?
Do not tell people to go tell,but I understood that'cause she
(47:21):
wanted to protect her daughter.
But you know, once you sent yourhusband out there anyway I felt
that this was just awell-rounded film and it will
not be forgotten when we get to,to award season, I think.
Kathia Woods (47:37):
No, and I definitely agree with you.
This was a good one.
'cause it is dry here with blackfilms.
This here y'all we got aboutthree.
This is one of three.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (47:46):
Well,
Kathia Woods (47:46):
so I'm just letting y'all know like we got
this, we got him and we have IsGoddess that's it.
There're, I'm sorry.
And Spike Lee's films.
So we got four black films.
So do with that at what youwould like to do with that.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (48:02):
Well, well, that's it.
That, that's gonna be our showfor this week.
You see, we had a lot to talkabout with this movie Center.
Ho Centers hope that you go outand check it out.
I'm Reggie Ponder, the realcritic.
You can find me on Twitter,Instagram, and YouTube.
Oh and on Blue Sky, which Ithink I even made one post just
(48:23):
recently, so you could find meat the real critic.
And that's REEL Kathia.
Where can they find you?
Kathia Woods (48:29):
They can find me on Instagram.
Facebook, blue Sky at like ofApartheid Boys app and TikTok at
everywhere.
It's Kathia_ wood.
Somebody took my Moniker onTikTok, so it's Kathia1970 on
TikTok we be having Oh, wow.
Time on TikTok.
I was like who's the woods overthere?
(48:50):
But it is what it's,
Reggie Ponder, The Reel (48:51):
What's your what's the latest article
that you have out that peoplecan check out as well?
Kathia Woods (48:54):
You can read my Sinners review at the Sacramento
Observer, which will be in hardbody this week as well.
It's already up online.
My interview with Ryan Cooglerand Michael B.
Jordan is in today's issue ofthe Tribune, and it is also up
online.
I we did ours audio because Ryanwas in the car, but we made it
(49:16):
work.
Reggie Ponder, The Reel C (49:17):
Well, that's our show.
as you can see we had a lot offun.
We got two critics, twoopinions, but one mission where
dialogue engages.
This is the movies educates,entertains, and occasionally
escalates.
We will see you guys next time.
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