September 26, 2025 • 34 mins
Summary
In this episode of the Resolution Room, Dr. Nashay Lowe engages with Dr. Paul Brown to discuss the transformative power of study abroad experiences, particularly for students of color. They explore the barriers these students face, the importance of cultural immersion, and the development of a new certificate program aimed at enhancing language proficiency and global engagement. Through personal anecdotes and insights, they highlight the profound impact of international exposure on personal and professional growth, emphasizing the need for better information and advocacy to encourage more students to take the leap into global education. In this conversation, Dr. Nashay Lowe and Paul Brown discuss the significance of study abroad programs, particularly for students of color. They emphasize the importance of early planning and intentionality in creating opportunities for students to gain international experience. The discussion highlights how study abroad can broaden horizons, enhance career prospects, and build confidence. They also address the need for educational institutions to support students in navigating these opportunities and the long-term benefits of such experiences.
Key Takeaways
- Study abroad can be life-changing.
- International exposure shapes personal and professional growth.
- Travel expands perspectives and builds confidence.
- Misinformation is a significant barrier to studying abroad.
- Faculty play a crucial role in promoting study abroad opportunities.
- Personal stories can inspire others to pursue global experiences.
- Advocacy is needed to ensure students are aware of their options. It's crucial to plant the seed for study abroad early.
- Students should be intentional and purposeful in their planning.
- Study abroad is not just for language students; all disciplines can benefit.
- Faculty need to be educated about study abroad processes.
- Students who study abroad often see improved academic performance.
- International experience enhances employability and marketability.
- Planning for study abroad should start as early as high school.
- Exposure to different cultures fosters personal growth and adaptability.
- It's never too late to pursue international opportunities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Shay (00:01):
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
(00:22):
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nashay Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
In this episode of TheResolution Room, I sit down with
(00:42):
Dr.
Paul Brown, Associate Professorof French and former director
of the Study Abroad Center atClark Land University, to
explore how study abroad can bea life-changing experience,
especially for students ofcolor.
We will dive into whyinternational exposure matters,
how it shapes both personal andprofessional growth, and the
unique barriers thatmarginalized students face when
(01:04):
considering global education.
So through personal stories andpractical insights, Dr.
Brown shares why travel isn'tjust about seeing new places.
It's about expandingperspectives, building
confidence, and navigatingidentity and new cultural
contexts.
Whether you're a student, aneducator, or simply curious
about the power of globalexperiences, this conversation
(01:25):
is a reminder that steppingoutside of your comfort zone
often brings you closer toyourself.
So, Dr.
Brown, if you could pleaseintroduce yourself, let everyone
know who you are, what you do,and specifically, I want you to
talk about the new program thatyou're trying to release at
Clark Atlanta.
Dr. Brown (01:43):
Okay, thank you very much, Dr.
Lowe.
First, I'd like to thank youfor inviting me onto this
platform and giving me theopportunity to share a lot of
information that we've gatheredover the years concerning study
abroad, its importance, etc.
It's really not a new program,but within the Department of
English and Modern ForeignLanguages, I am trying to
(02:03):
develop a certificate program.
And the certificate program iscomprised of bringing together
some of our academic partners,as well as with our high
schools.
We want to begin ourrecruitment for this program in
high school.
We want to draw from sophomore,juniors, and seniors, so that
(02:24):
when students arrive at ClarkAtlanta University, they'll have
at least strong intermediateproficiency in French.
We're starting with Frenchfirst.
Hopefully, if this is asuccess, then we'll be able to
move it over to Spanish also.
But presently, it's for It'sfor French students.
And one of the reasons for thatis because a lot of the
(02:45):
biliterate schools that we'regoing to be recruiting from will
be schools where French is oneof the primary languages.
So when a student arrives atClark Atlanta University, they
will take some courses at theintermediate level.
Then We want the students toapply for the Middlebury College
(03:06):
Summer Languages Program, whichis one of the best schools in
the nation in terms of foreignlanguage pedagogy.
And so it's a seven-weekprogram, and the students are
required to speak nothing butthe target language.
They have to sign an oathindicating that they will not
speak anything but the targetlanguage.
Now, there are a lot of otherlanguages that are taught there.
(03:29):
They teach a lot of thecritical languages, Chinese,
Hebrew.
Arabic, and several othercritical languages.
But the Romance languages arealso represented, French,
Spanish, Portuguese, andItalian.
But the students for sevenweeks will be housed together.
They'll take their coursestogether.
(03:49):
At the end of the program, lotsof times they put on a play
where students are required toplay a particular role.
If the student desires to godowntown, and this is located in
in I think it's Middlebury,Vermont.
If they go to town, there arepeople in town, the students are
(04:11):
required to wear like, it'salmost like a scarlet letter,
something indicating that theyspeak French.
And the people in town thatspeak French will only address
them in French because they arefamiliar with the program.
So if the student wants towatch TV, it's in French.
They're trying as much aspossible to totally immerse the
students only in the languageand the culture.
(04:33):
Now, the students will betaking nine hours academic
credit, and most of that will beadvanced grammar and also some
literature courses.
But the student will be giventhe opportunity to advance
themselves academically and thenculturally also.
(04:54):
And then once the studentreturns to Clark Atlanta, we
want them to follow that up witha study abroad experience.
in a French-speaking country,whether it be France or a
French-speaking country inAfrica.
I was fortunate enough yearsback to be on the board of the
Council for InternationalEducational Exchange.
(05:16):
We call it CIEE.
And while on the board, Isuggested that we start a
program in French-speaking WestAfrica.
And so we did a exploratorytrip And we went to Cameroon and
Senegal.
So there's a French-speakingprogram in Senegal where
(05:38):
students can study for an entiresemester.
Or, of course, they can studyin France or Belgium.
Now, mind you, this program isnot just for language majors
because we want the student tobecome proficient in French.
But the student does not haveto be a French major.
This could be a student who'smajoring in mass media arts.
So he could take his othercourses in English.
(06:00):
But then he will be taking ashigh level French courses as he
possibly can.
Then it's going to be, the onusis going to be on the student
to make sure that he continuesto speak the language as much as
he possibly can.
Because this certificate at thevery end, and by the way, it's
called a bilingual professionalglobal scholar certificate.
(06:23):
And so the bilingual part isperformance-based.
It makes no difference how manycourses you took and how many
A's you received in thosecourses.
If you cannot speak thelanguage fluently, then you're
not awarded the certificate.
So they have the interest inmaking sure that at the end of
(06:44):
the program that they can speakthe language perfectly.
And then the last part iscalled the Washington Semester
Program, which takes place inWashington, D.C.
at American University.
It's a top-of-the-line program,and students are interacting
with working professionals.
They're working with peoplethat work in the Senate, in the
(07:08):
House of Representatives, youname it.
And they're doing internshipswith these people.
We had one student who did aninternship, for example, at the
White House itself, where shewas actually answering the mail
for Michelle Obama.
When a student completes thatparticular program, there's one
last portion in the program,which is a professional
(07:29):
development portion at ClarkAtlanta University.
So when they return to theuniversity, they will be
participating in that program aswell as doing an internship
through the Washington SemesterProgram.
And we hope to be able topersuade some companies such as
Coca-Cola that are looking tohire students professionals, you
(07:52):
know, in French-speakingcountries to take a look at our
students, because if you vetthem, they're already ready for
an international career.
So that's what we're doing.
That's amazing, and that'sstill in development, correct?
I put forth and submitted theproposal in the spring, just
this past spring, and it has togo through the process, and
(08:13):
hopefully it will go through theprocess quickly.
It'll be approved, and weshould be able to start sometime
in the spring of 2026.
Dr. Shay (08:22):
Gosh, I wish that existed when I went to Clark
Atlanta.
But speaking of memory lane, Imean, this interview is really
special to me because for anyonewho knows me, knows I love to
travel.
It's been a huge part of mylife, both professionally and
personally.
And if anyone's looking forsomeone to blame, namely my
(08:42):
parents, this is the man who Ilike to say started it all.
So I have been in touch withyou now.
for over 10 years, really,since my time there.
And I just recall walking intoyour office and leaving that
conversation, just feeling soexcited and inspired to explore.
(09:02):
I had no idea what I was reallygetting into.
I was really unprepared in alot of ways, but I don't regret
a second of it because literallyit just opened up so many doors
and a few windows too.
So I I'd love to hear moreabout what initially sparked
your passion for study abroadand global education.
Dr. Brown (09:23):
Actually, one of the reasons why I'm so passionate
about this is because when I wasin school, I worked almost for
four years trying to studyabroad.
And it was almost animpossibility simply because I
was on scholarship at WashingtonCollege, and I played sports
both in the fall and in thespring.
(09:43):
I wouldn't have been able toparticipate in the athletics.
But I was willing to foregothat, to be quite honest with
you, in order to study abroad.
But you see, one of theproblems is that I didn't have
the proper information.
I didn't know really whatneeded to be done.
(10:04):
All I knew was junior year, Iwanted to study abroad.
So when I went to apply,somehow the school kind of
persuaded me, well, we did ourbest, but, you know, you just
can't study abroad.
And so I said, okay, well, Ijust kind of pushed it to the
side.
But then the Peace Corps poppedup, and it was on television
(10:27):
everywhere at that time.
And so my sister—and, you know,this kind of dovetails with
your story, too.
My sister brought home anapplication for the Peace Corps.
And— She had planned onapplying herself, but she was
taking such a long time, and soI just took the application, and
(10:48):
I filled it out, and I sent it.
And for some reason, I was veryoptimistic because I had all
the qualifications they werelooking for.
And so I felt as though I wasgoing to be accepted, and I was.
I was accepted into the PeaceCorps.
And so actually, the PeaceCorps was the first time that I
had an opportunity toparticipate not to study abroad,
(11:08):
but to travel abroad.
And I was working abroadbecause I was teaching English
as a foreign language at thattime.
And so I realized that theexperience I had there was
similar to a study abroadexperience.
And so when I returned, Ifinished my graduate studies,
and I had the opportunity toprovide that opportunity for
(11:29):
other students, then I jumped atit.
Dr. Shay (11:34):
Can you talk a little bit about what you remember
about your first time abroad andnot just what you saw, but how
it made you feel about yourself?
Dr. Brown (11:42):
It was truly amazing.
First off is the people.
The people were soaccommodating and so welcoming.
And I told someone, that's thefirst time in my life I felt
like a movie star.
Everything you say andeverything you do, people think,
is really important and theyhang on your every word.
(12:03):
I felt useful, I feltimportant.
When I say useful, I was goingto teach English as a foreign
language.
That was something that wasgoing to be very useful to the
youth in Cote d'Ivoire.
Actually, it was a win-winsituation because I was gaining
(12:28):
an awful lot from just myinteraction with them, but they
were gaining something also.
So both of us were winning.
They were excited about anAmerican being there, and I was
excited about being an Americanin a French-speaking country in
West Africa and learning aboutthe different cultures because,
as you know, in one country, youhave, for example, Cote
(12:52):
d'Ivoire has 60 different majorethnic groups.
and just learning about thedifferent groups and how they
interact and the history ofthem.
It just became so fascinatingbecause I never was a history
buff, but all of a sudden now Iwant to know more.
And it was something that wasnot just something that I was
(13:14):
learning for a test, but thiswas real information I was
learning because this was thepart of my genealogy.
and my history.
And so I was really veryinterested.
And so that's what kept myinterest the whole time that I
was there.
Dr. Shay (13:28):
Yeah, I think we don't think about the sort of
personal connection we're goingto have to a foreign land when
we first get there.
But I know so many people whotalk about by the time they
leave, You feel connected tothat place in one way or
another, that community that youstayed in, that family that
helped you out or gave youdirections, whatever it is.
Most people find something thatbonds them to that place
(13:51):
forever after that.
Dr. Brown (13:53):
Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Shay (13:54):
And so from students you've worked with at Clark
Atlanta, what have you seenshift in students after
returning from abroad?
Dr. Brown (14:03):
Well, let me just tell you the effect it had on my
family.
No one in my family, other thanmy brothers who were in the
military, my brothers in themilitary, you know, they went to
Germany.
And my other brother, oldestbrother, he went to Korea.
But they were just doing itbecause they had been drafted.
But it wasn't something, itwasn't part of our career plan.
(14:26):
Well, when I went abroad and Icame back, then I started
recounting stories aboutdifferent things that happened
to me while I was there.
And my family became very, veryexcited about it.
And so now my nieces andnephews, almost all of them have
been abroad.
And these are planned tripsthat they have taken abroad,
(14:48):
which they would never have donehad they never heard the
stories that I shared with themwhen I came back because they
were scared to death to leavethis country.
But now, oh, wow.
at the drop of a hat, they'reready to go.
And they're learning.
They're learning.
And they're being exposed tothings that, that here before
(15:10):
were just stories in a book.
But then they got a chance toactually go and live the
experience.
It means so much more.
Dr. Shay (15:17):
And I mean, that's, Linking that to the bigger
conversation, too, ofrepresentation matters abroad,
because I like a lot of timespeople just don't think it's
possible for them or it's justnot something they considered
because they haven't seen peoplearound them do it.
And unless it's for specificreasons, like you said, military
or maybe their job or thingslike that.
(15:37):
And so from your experience,what are some of the most common
barriers, whether that'sexternal or internal, that keep
students from taking that leap?
Dr. Brown (15:46):
Well.
It depends on where they'regoing.
Many of them have been afraidto go to countries where English
isn't the official language.
And those that do, they're veryreticent about it.
They go, but they don't havethat same confidence that they
would have going to anEnglish-speaking country.
But many of them, first off,it's really just a lack of
(16:11):
information, misinformation.
As a matter of fact, it's notjust in the student body, but
it's also in the faculty.
Because the faculty have noidea what it takes to study
abroad.
They don't realize thatstudents can use all of their
financial aid to go along withthem.
And they can apply forscholarships through the
third-party providers.
(16:31):
And then there are federaldollars that they can apply for.
So they just don't know.
And so consequently, they donot promote the program.
And I've tried to even sharewith my colleagues, hey, listen,
you're right.
you're really hurting ourstudents, allowing them to take
full advantage of all thepossibilities that are available
(16:55):
to them at Clark AtlantaUniversity.
So many of them, so manystudents, I said, I guess I wish
I had known about that studyabroad program when I was there.
They organized so many of them,so the students would know, but
they just, they're dissuadedbecause people have given them
misinformation, and so It isn'tuntil they come and they find
(17:17):
out on their own that, hey, thisis possible.
And so once they find out, andit's so interesting because I
had one student that went.
He put everything on Facebook.
My goodness, it wasunbelievable.
There's a number of studentsthat came into my office.
I said, we sent him there forthis problem.
Well, how did he do that?
(17:37):
And so then I would explain.
But see, so often, that doesn'tcome from their colleagues.
It doesn't come from theirpeers.
It's really not realinformation.
And so they just kind of pushit to the side.
Dr. Shay (17:52):
Yes, I can sympathize greatly.
I recall, again, my ownexperience.
I think I've shared with youmany times where I wish I had
heard about this when I firststarted, like my freshman year
or so.
So that way I was more preparedto leave because again, similar
to you, I studied abroad myjunior year.
At the time I understood how itworked.
I had to get all my coreclasses out the way.
(18:13):
And I was like, let me just gowhen I have electives.
So that way I don't feel likeI'm messing anything up, you
know, but it's that information.
Right.
And I remember, I think theonly reason I even came by your
office, I saw one little fly,like you can barely even see it.
Like, it's not like it stoodout, but I just happened to see
it.
And it just something struck meto just walk in there and ask
(18:35):
more questions.
But that's not going to beeveryone, of course.
We need more almostin-your-face advertising or
informationals about thesethings.
And that's honestly reallyencouraged me to try to be an
advocate as much as possible toother students.
Like I love mentoring studentsabout their professional
development, especially minoritystudents, because there's just
(18:58):
so many opportunities out therethat you have no idea about.
One of those, like you justdon't know until you know,
myself included.
From the time I studied abroad,that turned into...
the Peace Corps, and thatturned into teaching English in
Korea, and that turned into amaster's program in IR, and that
turned into getting up here.
Like, it just literallysnowballed into so many things
that I just had never eventhought about doing.
(19:20):
And there are opportunities forthe most part that I wouldn't
have come across if it wasn'tfor that first step of studying
abroad.
And You know, my personalphilosophy now when I'm talking
with students and working withthem, like I love to speak at
colleges, universities andcampuses and just wherever the
students are and do it early.
I try to get faculty and adminto understand how important it
(19:44):
is to plant that seed early sothat.
By the time you're a sophomoreor junior, you're ready to go.
And you're not stressing aboutit.
You did your applications.
You got the funding.
You're confident and going.
And so everything you're sayingjust makes so much sense.
And this is a passion you and Ishare.
And part of why we've kept intouch for so long and trying to
support each other is because Idon't understand why nobody else
(20:07):
cares so much.
Dr. Brown (20:09):
It's important.
I know.
Well, you know, I have thisthing I call IPPI.
And it's called beingintentional.
Planned, purposeful, and thenintegrated.
When I said that you were theinspiration for it, I mean that.
Like you said, your careersnowballed.
You had no idea.
(20:30):
You had no idea when you were asophomore that you would be
anywhere close to where you aretoday.
It wasn't even in yourimagination.
Okay?
But one thing led to another.
But you see now, I don't wantanybody else to have to do that.
I want people to be able to puttogether a plan.
Intentionally, exactly.
Exactly.
I want it to be intentional.
I used to say, study abroad onpurpose.
(20:54):
I love that.
Yeah, and let it not be anaccident, but let it be
something that is planned andpurposeful and that it's
integrated into your four-yearplan.
And then from there, you canmove on.
And that's the reason that Iwant to intervene at the high
school level.
And also at Clark Atlanta, I'mputting together, I put together
(21:14):
this liaison program programfor the faculty.
And what it is, it's a programthat liaises with the Office of
International Education andStudy Abroad.
Now, the way I present it, thatoffice has all of the goodies.
It's the store.
But I'm trying to tell you thatthe store is over there, and
(21:37):
I'm trying to tell you what's inthe store.
so that you can share it withyour students and tell them,
hey, these opportunities exist.
And if you just go to thestore, you'll see.
And so what we've done is wehave in the School of Arts and
Sciences, every department nowhas a designated liaison.
I kind of am running the classfor the liaisons.
(22:01):
And what I do, I'm sharing withthe faculty what the process is
for students to study abroad.
You would be surprised.
Many of them have the slightestidea.
You know, they have theslightest idea how to advise
students to study abroad.
And so what I did this pastyear, we had six meetings, three
in the fall, three in thespring.
(22:23):
And I meet with the liaisonsand I tell them, okay, number
one, I tell them the process.
A student has to have a certainGPA.
Cannot be on academic probationnor social probation.
If they can meet those twocriteria, Okay, then they can
start looking for study abroadprograms.
(22:44):
And then I explain to them whata third-party provider is and
what the third-party providersprovide for our students.
And how do you get from ourdepartment to studying abroad
for a third-party provider?
Then I tell them what we'll dois we'll share this information.
Then we'll pass you off to theOffice of International
(23:05):
Education and Study Abroad.
they will tell you the processthat you need to follow in order
to be admitted to the thirdparty providers.
For example, KEI, KnowledgeExchange Institute, or the
Council on InternationalEducational Exchange, or SIT,
the School for InternationalTraining, and so many more.
And so we explain to them howthat's done.
(23:26):
And then, so that when ourstudents in our department come
in, and here's anothermisunderstanding, they think
that study abroad is only forstudents who want to study a
foreign language.
They don't realize thatstudents in business, students
in mass media arts, students inpsychology, whatever, can study
(23:47):
abroad.
They can study in a countrywhere English is not an official
language, but they can studySpanish in the environment And
they can study their psychologyalso.
So it's a win-win situation.
So what they're doing, they'rebroadening their horizon.
They're making themselves moremarketable in the job market.
And so I am educating thefaculty who are encouraging the
(24:12):
students to join the program.
And then they go to the Officeof International Programs and
they take over and they studyabroad.
But another thing too is that Ikeep telling them that this
information needs to be postedon their departmental websites.
(24:33):
So each departmental websiteshould look somewhat identical
with regards to the liaisonprogram.
And so I'm encouraging them toidentify programs abroad that
will be helpful to theirparticular discipline, whether
it be psychology, biology,chemistry, or whatever.
(24:54):
once they've identified thoseprograms, to pre-approve those
courses so that studentsstarting their freshman year, if
before you get here, you knowwe have a program, you know that
you can go to such and suchplace, then, as you said, you
can start planning before youeven arrive at the university.
(25:14):
And you can start saving yourmoney.
And you'll know how to beadvised.
The advisors will tell you, donot take your your elective
courses, save your electivecourses for when you go abroad.
That way, you can take coursesin your major or outside of your
major.
It's up to you.
But it's a plan.
(25:34):
It's not just, you know,picking courses out of thin air,
but you're planning a career.
Then we have a professionaldevelopment office right there
at the school, which issomething that students need to
take advantage of also.
Dr. Shay (25:50):
Exactly.
Because it all works together.
It does.
Dr. Brown (25:54):
It does.
And that's what we're talkingabout, putting it all together.
You're taking all thesedifferent, seemingly disparate
departments or units.
You're bringing them alltogether.
And that's all that thecertificate program is.
It's really, I'm just takingwhat we already have there,
organize it in such a way thatit makes sense, and then it
becomes helpful to the students.
(26:15):
I will guarantee you that anystudent that exits college the
certificate program will have nojob, no problem whatsoever
getting a job in the job market.
Who would turn down a bilingualprofessional with practical
international work experience?
You would be a fool to do that.
(26:35):
So the student would be verywell prepared for the
international
Dr. Shay (26:41):
arena.
Absolutely.
If a student is listening andquietly wondering right now if
they belong in this space, whatwould you say to them?
Dr. Brown (26:53):
Definitely.
Well, there were students thatcame that had a 2.5 GPA.
That's the lowest GPA that youcan have in order to study
abroad.
But when they studied abroadand they came back, grades
skyrocketed because all of asudden now they began to realize
that this education is useful.
(27:15):
It's not just, you know, theysee their education, their
degree, as hoops that they haveto jump through in order to
receive a piece of paper thatthey think is going to be a
get-out-of-jail-free card, youknow what I'm saying, or it's
going to be a passport tosuccess.
They don't realize that thatpassport to success has to have
(27:37):
attached to it some experiencesoutside of the box.
And so if you attend ClarkAtlanta University for four
years, your diploma is going tolook like everyone else's.
But if you can add aninternational dimension to it
and say, hey, this is how Idiffer from person A or person
B, look at the experiences thatI've had.
(27:58):
It speaks for itself.
Dr. Shay (28:01):
And just building on that, not only do you have that
practical experience to put onyour resume, literally, you are
going to be mentally elevated ata different level.
It's just, you literally get tosee how, there's not one way to
do education.
You're going to learn differentways to learn.
You're going to learn differentways to think about things.
And see how university levelcourses are taught differently.
(28:22):
That could be a culture shock.
That's right.
Yeah.
It's like so many pieces tothat that you get to walk away
with that just make you look atthings in a big picture point of
view that still stick with meto this day.
And I think for better or forworse, I think I always look at
the big picture now.
Dr. Brown (28:38):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And you know also that yourexperience in the Peace Corps,
it really, you'd be surprisedhow much information that you
have that is valuableinformation to certain people.
And people that are sitting inCongress right now and are
making decisions on aninternational level, you'd be
(29:00):
surprised how many of them don'thave a clue.
Many of them- Have never beenthere.
That's right.
Never been there, never had aninternational experience at all.
And have no idea that they'remaking decisions on things that
they read in the book, they justbase their...
They're the opinions based on astereotype instead of an actual
experience.
(29:20):
And so right now, we used tohave a program called the
Institute for InternationalPublic Policy.
And I wish that you had been atClark Atlanta years before
that.
You definitely would have beenin that program.
And it's a program thatprepares students starting their
sophomore year all the way.
And it was run that wassponsored by the UNCF Mellon
(29:44):
Foundation.
It was an excellent program.
Excellent program.
But I'm going to tell yousomething, that this certificate
program is going to be equal tothat program.
Because one of the things, oneof the shortcomings of that
program was that theAfrican-Americans that were
participating in the program,none of them, not a single one
(30:05):
was bilingual.
And so when they went into thediplomatic corps, they had to go
to the Foreign ServiceInstitute.
And so I said to myself, no,we're going to develop bilingual
professionals with practicalinternational work experience.
They're not going to be able todiscount them in any way,
(30:27):
shape, or form.
So I'll be ready.
Yes.
Dr. Shay (30:30):
Well, you know, I can sit here and talk to you about
sitting abroad and traveling allday, like all day long,
literally.
Are there any...
last insights or tips or justany lasting words you want to
leave with any studentslistening who are considering or
any faculty or just anyonelistening right now?
Dr. Brown (30:49):
Yeah, I just want to say two things.
All the students that studyabroad, and there were over 700
students that I advised, everysingle one graduated and
graduated on time, okay?
A large majority of them areworking in the international
arena, okay?
at least I can name three, fourpeople in the last two years
(31:14):
who have PhDs, you included.
So three other students, onestudent is working on a PhD now,
and two other students havetheir PhDs.
So that's four students.
Those are just the ones thathave kept in touch with me and
we've spoken, who have achievedthe PhD.
So the program is beneficial,but What I want to encourage
(31:38):
people to do is to plan theprogram, especially I'm looking
at high school.
If when you decide to go toschool, even if you're not
deciding to come to ClarkAtlanta University, wherever
your institution of choice, makesure they have a study abroad
program and then find out whatyou need to do in order to
(31:58):
participate in that particularprogram and then put together an
international plan.
Don't just make it up as you goalong.
put together a plan and even ifthe plan doesn't work exactly
as you wanted it to you can youcan make modifications later on
but one of the most importantthings is to have a plan and um
(32:19):
when clark atlanta brings a lotof their um alum to school and
ask them what is your biggestregret i mean all of them say my
biggest regret was that ididn't study abroad
Dr. Shay (32:33):
It says it right there.
It
Dr. Brown (32:34):
says it right there.
It says it right there.
Dr. Shay (32:36):
Yes.
And I'll just add that it canall seem very intimidating, but
just be open to the process, beflexible, be adaptable, because,
I mean, that's truly what lifeis about, right?
You're not going to grow whenyou're comfortable.
And you literally just have toget to a point within yourself
where you just want more foryourself and just go for it.
(32:58):
a plan, like you said.
But I mean, to a certainextent, you might psych yourself
out if you overthink it aswell.
I think for a lot of people,especially things like the Peace
Corps, it's one of those thingswhere they think, ah, two-year
commitment.
I don't know, that's too long.
But, you know, it's going to bethe most amazing, amazingly
challenging, yet rewarding twoyears of your life.
(33:20):
You know, so I think there's somany more benefits than
challenges when it comes to itat the end of it.
And you have to just, you know,and again, I understand that
everyone's different and it'smaybe not for everyone, but just
be open to the process.
Dr. Brown (33:38):
We
Dr. Shay (33:38):
don't get the
Dr. Brown (33:38):
information out there.
Dr. Shay (33:41):
You're right.
Yeah, so it's a two-way street.
The information needs to be outthere more, but then you also
have to be courageous enough totake that step.
Gosh, this is so amazing.
Again, we could talk about thisall day.
We both would love to.
So if you want to reach out toeither one of us, you can leave
a comment.
And Dr.
Brown, can you let everyoneknow where to find you or follow
(34:01):
your work or how to contactyou?
Dr. Brown (34:03):
Contact me at pbrown at cau.edu and I'll be able to
get back with them.
Dr. Shay (34:11):
Amazing.
So this episode is a collectivereminder that passports are
more than travel documents.
They're keys to possibility.
When students go abroad,they're not only expanding the
world, but they return home asmore confident, curious, and
connected citizens.
Dr.
Brown reminded us today thatstudy abroad is so much more,
(34:31):
again, than passport stance.
It's opportunities to challengethe limits that we place in
ourselves and to see the worldand our place in it with new
eyes.
For students of color who maynot always see themselves
reflected in global spaces,these experiences can be
especially powerful, buildingnot just academic knowledge, but
again, confidence,adaptability, and a deeper
(34:52):
understanding of identity.
The barriers are real,financial, cultural, and
emotional.
But as we heard, the rewards ofgoing abroad are lifelong.
Exposure becomes expansion andcuriosity becomes connection.
So whether you're a student, aneducator, or someone looking
back on what you perceive as amissed opportunity, remember
(35:14):
that it's never too late toexplore beyond your borders in
any way that you can.
As always, thank you forjoining me today in the
Resolution Room.
I'm grateful you're here doingthis work alongside me.
If this episode spoke to you,I'd love for you to please
share.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
(35:35):
that's what will carry youforward.
so
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
(00:22):
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nashay Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
In this episode of TheResolution Room, I sit down with
(00:42):
Dr.
Paul Brown, Associate Professorof French and former director
of the Study Abroad Center atClark Land University, to
explore how study abroad can bea life-changing experience,
especially for students ofcolor.
We will dive into whyinternational exposure matters,
how it shapes both personal andprofessional growth, and the
unique barriers thatmarginalized students face when
(01:04):
considering global education.
So through personal stories andpractical insights, Dr.
Brown shares why travel isn'tjust about seeing new places.
It's about expandingperspectives, building
confidence, and navigatingidentity and new cultural
contexts.
Whether you're a student, aneducator, or simply curious
about the power of globalexperiences, this conversation
(01:25):
is a reminder that steppingoutside of your comfort zone
often brings you closer toyourself.
So, Dr.
Brown, if you could pleaseintroduce yourself, let everyone
know who you are, what you do,and specifically, I want you to
talk about the new program thatyou're trying to release at
Clark Atlanta.
Dr. Brown (01:43):
Okay, thank you very much, Dr.
Lowe.
First, I'd like to thank youfor inviting me onto this
platform and giving me theopportunity to share a lot of
information that we've gatheredover the years concerning study
abroad, its importance, etc.
It's really not a new program,but within the Department of
English and Modern ForeignLanguages, I am trying to
(02:03):
develop a certificate program.
And the certificate program iscomprised of bringing together
some of our academic partners,as well as with our high
schools.
We want to begin ourrecruitment for this program in
high school.
We want to draw from sophomore,juniors, and seniors, so that
(02:24):
when students arrive at ClarkAtlanta University, they'll have
at least strong intermediateproficiency in French.
We're starting with Frenchfirst.
Hopefully, if this is asuccess, then we'll be able to
move it over to Spanish also.
But presently, it's for It'sfor French students.
And one of the reasons for thatis because a lot of the
(02:45):
biliterate schools that we'regoing to be recruiting from will
be schools where French is oneof the primary languages.
So when a student arrives atClark Atlanta University, they
will take some courses at theintermediate level.
Then We want the students toapply for the Middlebury College
(03:06):
Summer Languages Program, whichis one of the best schools in
the nation in terms of foreignlanguage pedagogy.
And so it's a seven-weekprogram, and the students are
required to speak nothing butthe target language.
They have to sign an oathindicating that they will not
speak anything but the targetlanguage.
Now, there are a lot of otherlanguages that are taught there.
(03:29):
They teach a lot of thecritical languages, Chinese,
Hebrew.
Arabic, and several othercritical languages.
But the Romance languages arealso represented, French,
Spanish, Portuguese, andItalian.
But the students for sevenweeks will be housed together.
They'll take their coursestogether.
(03:49):
At the end of the program, lotsof times they put on a play
where students are required toplay a particular role.
If the student desires to godowntown, and this is located in
in I think it's Middlebury,Vermont.
If they go to town, there arepeople in town, the students are
(04:11):
required to wear like, it'salmost like a scarlet letter,
something indicating that theyspeak French.
And the people in town thatspeak French will only address
them in French because they arefamiliar with the program.
So if the student wants towatch TV, it's in French.
They're trying as much aspossible to totally immerse the
students only in the languageand the culture.
(04:33):
Now, the students will betaking nine hours academic
credit, and most of that will beadvanced grammar and also some
literature courses.
But the student will be giventhe opportunity to advance
themselves academically and thenculturally also.
(04:54):
And then once the studentreturns to Clark Atlanta, we
want them to follow that up witha study abroad experience.
in a French-speaking country,whether it be France or a
French-speaking country inAfrica.
I was fortunate enough yearsback to be on the board of the
Council for InternationalEducational Exchange.
(05:16):
We call it CIEE.
And while on the board, Isuggested that we start a
program in French-speaking WestAfrica.
And so we did a exploratorytrip And we went to Cameroon and
Senegal.
So there's a French-speakingprogram in Senegal where
(05:38):
students can study for an entiresemester.
Or, of course, they can studyin France or Belgium.
Now, mind you, this program isnot just for language majors
because we want the student tobecome proficient in French.
But the student does not haveto be a French major.
This could be a student who'smajoring in mass media arts.
So he could take his othercourses in English.
(06:00):
But then he will be taking ashigh level French courses as he
possibly can.
Then it's going to be, the onusis going to be on the student
to make sure that he continuesto speak the language as much as
he possibly can.
Because this certificate at thevery end, and by the way, it's
called a bilingual professionalglobal scholar certificate.
(06:23):
And so the bilingual part isperformance-based.
It makes no difference how manycourses you took and how many
A's you received in thosecourses.
If you cannot speak thelanguage fluently, then you're
not awarded the certificate.
So they have the interest inmaking sure that at the end of
(06:44):
the program that they can speakthe language perfectly.
And then the last part iscalled the Washington Semester
Program, which takes place inWashington, D.C.
at American University.
It's a top-of-the-line program,and students are interacting
with working professionals.
They're working with peoplethat work in the Senate, in the
(07:08):
House of Representatives, youname it.
And they're doing internshipswith these people.
We had one student who did aninternship, for example, at the
White House itself, where shewas actually answering the mail
for Michelle Obama.
When a student completes thatparticular program, there's one
last portion in the program,which is a professional
(07:29):
development portion at ClarkAtlanta University.
So when they return to theuniversity, they will be
participating in that program aswell as doing an internship
through the Washington SemesterProgram.
And we hope to be able topersuade some companies such as
Coca-Cola that are looking tohire students professionals, you
(07:52):
know, in French-speakingcountries to take a look at our
students, because if you vetthem, they're already ready for
an international career.
So that's what we're doing.
That's amazing, and that'sstill in development, correct?
I put forth and submitted theproposal in the spring, just
this past spring, and it has togo through the process, and
(08:13):
hopefully it will go through theprocess quickly.
It'll be approved, and weshould be able to start sometime
in the spring of 2026.
Dr. Shay (08:22):
Gosh, I wish that existed when I went to Clark
Atlanta.
But speaking of memory lane, Imean, this interview is really
special to me because for anyonewho knows me, knows I love to
travel.
It's been a huge part of mylife, both professionally and
personally.
And if anyone's looking forsomeone to blame, namely my
(08:42):
parents, this is the man who Ilike to say started it all.
So I have been in touch withyou now.
for over 10 years, really,since my time there.
And I just recall walking intoyour office and leaving that
conversation, just feeling soexcited and inspired to explore.
(09:02):
I had no idea what I was reallygetting into.
I was really unprepared in alot of ways, but I don't regret
a second of it because literallyit just opened up so many doors
and a few windows too.
So I I'd love to hear moreabout what initially sparked
your passion for study abroadand global education.
Dr. Brown (09:23):
Actually, one of the reasons why I'm so passionate
about this is because when I wasin school, I worked almost for
four years trying to studyabroad.
And it was almost animpossibility simply because I
was on scholarship at WashingtonCollege, and I played sports
both in the fall and in thespring.
(09:43):
I wouldn't have been able toparticipate in the athletics.
But I was willing to foregothat, to be quite honest with
you, in order to study abroad.
But you see, one of theproblems is that I didn't have
the proper information.
I didn't know really whatneeded to be done.
(10:04):
All I knew was junior year, Iwanted to study abroad.
So when I went to apply,somehow the school kind of
persuaded me, well, we did ourbest, but, you know, you just
can't study abroad.
And so I said, okay, well, Ijust kind of pushed it to the
side.
But then the Peace Corps poppedup, and it was on television
(10:27):
everywhere at that time.
And so my sister—and, you know,this kind of dovetails with
your story, too.
My sister brought home anapplication for the Peace Corps.
And— She had planned onapplying herself, but she was
taking such a long time, and soI just took the application, and
(10:48):
I filled it out, and I sent it.
And for some reason, I was veryoptimistic because I had all
the qualifications they werelooking for.
And so I felt as though I wasgoing to be accepted, and I was.
I was accepted into the PeaceCorps.
And so actually, the PeaceCorps was the first time that I
had an opportunity toparticipate not to study abroad,
(11:08):
but to travel abroad.
And I was working abroadbecause I was teaching English
as a foreign language at thattime.
And so I realized that theexperience I had there was
similar to a study abroadexperience.
And so when I returned, Ifinished my graduate studies,
and I had the opportunity toprovide that opportunity for
(11:29):
other students, then I jumped atit.
Dr. Shay (11:34):
Can you talk a little bit about what you remember
about your first time abroad andnot just what you saw, but how
it made you feel about yourself?
Dr. Brown (11:42):
It was truly amazing.
First off is the people.
The people were soaccommodating and so welcoming.
And I told someone, that's thefirst time in my life I felt
like a movie star.
Everything you say andeverything you do, people think,
is really important and theyhang on your every word.
(12:03):
I felt useful, I feltimportant.
When I say useful, I was goingto teach English as a foreign
language.
That was something that wasgoing to be very useful to the
youth in Cote d'Ivoire.
Actually, it was a win-winsituation because I was gaining
(12:28):
an awful lot from just myinteraction with them, but they
were gaining something also.
So both of us were winning.
They were excited about anAmerican being there, and I was
excited about being an Americanin a French-speaking country in
West Africa and learning aboutthe different cultures because,
as you know, in one country, youhave, for example, Cote
(12:52):
d'Ivoire has 60 different majorethnic groups.
and just learning about thedifferent groups and how they
interact and the history ofthem.
It just became so fascinatingbecause I never was a history
buff, but all of a sudden now Iwant to know more.
And it was something that wasnot just something that I was
(13:14):
learning for a test, but thiswas real information I was
learning because this was thepart of my genealogy.
and my history.
And so I was really veryinterested.
And so that's what kept myinterest the whole time that I
was there.
Dr. Shay (13:28):
Yeah, I think we don't think about the sort of
personal connection we're goingto have to a foreign land when
we first get there.
But I know so many people whotalk about by the time they
leave, You feel connected tothat place in one way or
another, that community that youstayed in, that family that
helped you out or gave youdirections, whatever it is.
Most people find something thatbonds them to that place
(13:51):
forever after that.
Dr. Brown (13:53):
Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Shay (13:54):
And so from students you've worked with at Clark
Atlanta, what have you seenshift in students after
returning from abroad?
Dr. Brown (14:03):
Well, let me just tell you the effect it had on my
family.
No one in my family, other thanmy brothers who were in the
military, my brothers in themilitary, you know, they went to
Germany.
And my other brother, oldestbrother, he went to Korea.
But they were just doing itbecause they had been drafted.
But it wasn't something, itwasn't part of our career plan.
(14:26):
Well, when I went abroad and Icame back, then I started
recounting stories aboutdifferent things that happened
to me while I was there.
And my family became very, veryexcited about it.
And so now my nieces andnephews, almost all of them have
been abroad.
And these are planned tripsthat they have taken abroad,
(14:48):
which they would never have donehad they never heard the
stories that I shared with themwhen I came back because they
were scared to death to leavethis country.
But now, oh, wow.
at the drop of a hat, they'reready to go.
And they're learning.
They're learning.
And they're being exposed tothings that, that here before
(15:10):
were just stories in a book.
But then they got a chance toactually go and live the
experience.
It means so much more.
Dr. Shay (15:17):
And I mean, that's, Linking that to the bigger
conversation, too, ofrepresentation matters abroad,
because I like a lot of timespeople just don't think it's
possible for them or it's justnot something they considered
because they haven't seen peoplearound them do it.
And unless it's for specificreasons, like you said, military
or maybe their job or thingslike that.
(15:37):
And so from your experience,what are some of the most common
barriers, whether that'sexternal or internal, that keep
students from taking that leap?
Dr. Brown (15:46):
Well.
It depends on where they'regoing.
Many of them have been afraidto go to countries where English
isn't the official language.
And those that do, they're veryreticent about it.
They go, but they don't havethat same confidence that they
would have going to anEnglish-speaking country.
But many of them, first off,it's really just a lack of
(16:11):
information, misinformation.
As a matter of fact, it's notjust in the student body, but
it's also in the faculty.
Because the faculty have noidea what it takes to study
abroad.
They don't realize thatstudents can use all of their
financial aid to go along withthem.
And they can apply forscholarships through the
third-party providers.
(16:31):
And then there are federaldollars that they can apply for.
So they just don't know.
And so consequently, they donot promote the program.
And I've tried to even sharewith my colleagues, hey, listen,
you're right.
you're really hurting ourstudents, allowing them to take
full advantage of all thepossibilities that are available
(16:55):
to them at Clark AtlantaUniversity.
So many of them, so manystudents, I said, I guess I wish
I had known about that studyabroad program when I was there.
They organized so many of them,so the students would know, but
they just, they're dissuadedbecause people have given them
misinformation, and so It isn'tuntil they come and they find
(17:17):
out on their own that, hey, thisis possible.
And so once they find out, andit's so interesting because I
had one student that went.
He put everything on Facebook.
My goodness, it wasunbelievable.
There's a number of studentsthat came into my office.
I said, we sent him there forthis problem.
Well, how did he do that?
(17:37):
And so then I would explain.
But see, so often, that doesn'tcome from their colleagues.
It doesn't come from theirpeers.
It's really not realinformation.
And so they just kind of pushit to the side.
Dr. Shay (17:52):
Yes, I can sympathize greatly.
I recall, again, my ownexperience.
I think I've shared with youmany times where I wish I had
heard about this when I firststarted, like my freshman year
or so.
So that way I was more preparedto leave because again, similar
to you, I studied abroad myjunior year.
At the time I understood how itworked.
I had to get all my coreclasses out the way.
(18:13):
And I was like, let me just gowhen I have electives.
So that way I don't feel likeI'm messing anything up, you
know, but it's that information.
Right.
And I remember, I think theonly reason I even came by your
office, I saw one little fly,like you can barely even see it.
Like, it's not like it stoodout, but I just happened to see
it.
And it just something struck meto just walk in there and ask
(18:35):
more questions.
But that's not going to beeveryone, of course.
We need more almostin-your-face advertising or
informationals about thesethings.
And that's honestly reallyencouraged me to try to be an
advocate as much as possible toother students.
Like I love mentoring studentsabout their professional
development, especially minoritystudents, because there's just
(18:58):
so many opportunities out therethat you have no idea about.
One of those, like you justdon't know until you know,
myself included.
From the time I studied abroad,that turned into...
the Peace Corps, and thatturned into teaching English in
Korea, and that turned into amaster's program in IR, and that
turned into getting up here.
Like, it just literallysnowballed into so many things
that I just had never eventhought about doing.
(19:20):
And there are opportunities forthe most part that I wouldn't
have come across if it wasn'tfor that first step of studying
abroad.
And You know, my personalphilosophy now when I'm talking
with students and working withthem, like I love to speak at
colleges, universities andcampuses and just wherever the
students are and do it early.
I try to get faculty and adminto understand how important it
(19:44):
is to plant that seed early sothat.
By the time you're a sophomoreor junior, you're ready to go.
And you're not stressing aboutit.
You did your applications.
You got the funding.
You're confident and going.
And so everything you're sayingjust makes so much sense.
And this is a passion you and Ishare.
And part of why we've kept intouch for so long and trying to
support each other is because Idon't understand why nobody else
(20:07):
cares so much.
Dr. Brown (20:09):
It's important.
I know.
Well, you know, I have thisthing I call IPPI.
And it's called beingintentional.
Planned, purposeful, and thenintegrated.
When I said that you were theinspiration for it, I mean that.
Like you said, your careersnowballed.
You had no idea.
(20:30):
You had no idea when you were asophomore that you would be
anywhere close to where you aretoday.
It wasn't even in yourimagination.
Okay?
But one thing led to another.
But you see now, I don't wantanybody else to have to do that.
I want people to be able to puttogether a plan.
Intentionally, exactly.
Exactly.
I want it to be intentional.
I used to say, study abroad onpurpose.
(20:54):
I love that.
Yeah, and let it not be anaccident, but let it be
something that is planned andpurposeful and that it's
integrated into your four-yearplan.
And then from there, you canmove on.
And that's the reason that Iwant to intervene at the high
school level.
And also at Clark Atlanta, I'mputting together, I put together
(21:14):
this liaison program programfor the faculty.
And what it is, it's a programthat liaises with the Office of
International Education andStudy Abroad.
Now, the way I present it, thatoffice has all of the goodies.
It's the store.
But I'm trying to tell you thatthe store is over there, and
(21:37):
I'm trying to tell you what's inthe store.
so that you can share it withyour students and tell them,
hey, these opportunities exist.
And if you just go to thestore, you'll see.
And so what we've done is wehave in the School of Arts and
Sciences, every department nowhas a designated liaison.
I kind of am running the classfor the liaisons.
(22:01):
And what I do, I'm sharing withthe faculty what the process is
for students to study abroad.
You would be surprised.
Many of them have the slightestidea.
You know, they have theslightest idea how to advise
students to study abroad.
And so what I did this pastyear, we had six meetings, three
in the fall, three in thespring.
(22:23):
And I meet with the liaisonsand I tell them, okay, number
one, I tell them the process.
A student has to have a certainGPA.
Cannot be on academic probationnor social probation.
If they can meet those twocriteria, Okay, then they can
start looking for study abroadprograms.
(22:44):
And then I explain to them whata third-party provider is and
what the third-party providersprovide for our students.
And how do you get from ourdepartment to studying abroad
for a third-party provider?
Then I tell them what we'll dois we'll share this information.
Then we'll pass you off to theOffice of International
(23:05):
Education and Study Abroad.
they will tell you the processthat you need to follow in order
to be admitted to the thirdparty providers.
For example, KEI, KnowledgeExchange Institute, or the
Council on InternationalEducational Exchange, or SIT,
the School for InternationalTraining, and so many more.
And so we explain to them howthat's done.
(23:26):
And then, so that when ourstudents in our department come
in, and here's anothermisunderstanding, they think
that study abroad is only forstudents who want to study a
foreign language.
They don't realize thatstudents in business, students
in mass media arts, students inpsychology, whatever, can study
(23:47):
abroad.
They can study in a countrywhere English is not an official
language, but they can studySpanish in the environment And
they can study their psychologyalso.
So it's a win-win situation.
So what they're doing, they'rebroadening their horizon.
They're making themselves moremarketable in the job market.
And so I am educating thefaculty who are encouraging the
(24:12):
students to join the program.
And then they go to the Officeof International Programs and
they take over and they studyabroad.
But another thing too is that Ikeep telling them that this
information needs to be postedon their departmental websites.
(24:33):
So each departmental websiteshould look somewhat identical
with regards to the liaisonprogram.
And so I'm encouraging them toidentify programs abroad that
will be helpful to theirparticular discipline, whether
it be psychology, biology,chemistry, or whatever.
(24:54):
once they've identified thoseprograms, to pre-approve those
courses so that studentsstarting their freshman year, if
before you get here, you knowwe have a program, you know that
you can go to such and suchplace, then, as you said, you
can start planning before youeven arrive at the university.
(25:14):
And you can start saving yourmoney.
And you'll know how to beadvised.
The advisors will tell you, donot take your your elective
courses, save your electivecourses for when you go abroad.
That way, you can take coursesin your major or outside of your
major.
It's up to you.
But it's a plan.
(25:34):
It's not just, you know,picking courses out of thin air,
but you're planning a career.
Then we have a professionaldevelopment office right there
at the school, which issomething that students need to
take advantage of also.
Dr. Shay (25:50):
Exactly.
Because it all works together.
It does.
Dr. Brown (25:54):
It does.
And that's what we're talkingabout, putting it all together.
You're taking all thesedifferent, seemingly disparate
departments or units.
You're bringing them alltogether.
And that's all that thecertificate program is.
It's really, I'm just takingwhat we already have there,
organize it in such a way thatit makes sense, and then it
becomes helpful to the students.
(26:15):
I will guarantee you that anystudent that exits college the
certificate program will have nojob, no problem whatsoever
getting a job in the job market.
Who would turn down a bilingualprofessional with practical
international work experience?
You would be a fool to do that.
(26:35):
So the student would be verywell prepared for the
international
Dr. Shay (26:41):
arena.
Absolutely.
If a student is listening andquietly wondering right now if
they belong in this space, whatwould you say to them?
Dr. Brown (26:53):
Definitely.
Well, there were students thatcame that had a 2.5 GPA.
That's the lowest GPA that youcan have in order to study
abroad.
But when they studied abroadand they came back, grades
skyrocketed because all of asudden now they began to realize
that this education is useful.
(27:15):
It's not just, you know, theysee their education, their
degree, as hoops that they haveto jump through in order to
receive a piece of paper thatthey think is going to be a
get-out-of-jail-free card, youknow what I'm saying, or it's
going to be a passport tosuccess.
They don't realize that thatpassport to success has to have
(27:37):
attached to it some experiencesoutside of the box.
And so if you attend ClarkAtlanta University for four
years, your diploma is going tolook like everyone else's.
But if you can add aninternational dimension to it
and say, hey, this is how Idiffer from person A or person
B, look at the experiences thatI've had.
(27:58):
It speaks for itself.
Dr. Shay (28:01):
And just building on that, not only do you have that
practical experience to put onyour resume, literally, you are
going to be mentally elevated ata different level.
It's just, you literally get tosee how, there's not one way to
do education.
You're going to learn differentways to learn.
You're going to learn differentways to think about things.
And see how university levelcourses are taught differently.
(28:22):
That could be a culture shock.
That's right.
Yeah.
It's like so many pieces tothat that you get to walk away
with that just make you look atthings in a big picture point of
view that still stick with meto this day.
And I think for better or forworse, I think I always look at
the big picture now.
Dr. Brown (28:38):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And you know also that yourexperience in the Peace Corps,
it really, you'd be surprisedhow much information that you
have that is valuableinformation to certain people.
And people that are sitting inCongress right now and are
making decisions on aninternational level, you'd be
(29:00):
surprised how many of them don'thave a clue.
Many of them- Have never beenthere.
That's right.
Never been there, never had aninternational experience at all.
And have no idea that they'remaking decisions on things that
they read in the book, they justbase their...
They're the opinions based on astereotype instead of an actual
experience.
(29:20):
And so right now, we used tohave a program called the
Institute for InternationalPublic Policy.
And I wish that you had been atClark Atlanta years before
that.
You definitely would have beenin that program.
And it's a program thatprepares students starting their
sophomore year all the way.
And it was run that wassponsored by the UNCF Mellon
(29:44):
Foundation.
It was an excellent program.
Excellent program.
But I'm going to tell yousomething, that this certificate
program is going to be equal tothat program.
Because one of the things, oneof the shortcomings of that
program was that theAfrican-Americans that were
participating in the program,none of them, not a single one
(30:05):
was bilingual.
And so when they went into thediplomatic corps, they had to go
to the Foreign ServiceInstitute.
And so I said to myself, no,we're going to develop bilingual
professionals with practicalinternational work experience.
They're not going to be able todiscount them in any way,
(30:27):
shape, or form.
So I'll be ready.
Yes.
Dr. Shay (30:30):
Well, you know, I can sit here and talk to you about
sitting abroad and traveling allday, like all day long,
literally.
Are there any...
last insights or tips or justany lasting words you want to
leave with any studentslistening who are considering or
any faculty or just anyonelistening right now?
Dr. Brown (30:49):
Yeah, I just want to say two things.
All the students that studyabroad, and there were over 700
students that I advised, everysingle one graduated and
graduated on time, okay?
A large majority of them areworking in the international
arena, okay?
at least I can name three, fourpeople in the last two years
(31:14):
who have PhDs, you included.
So three other students, onestudent is working on a PhD now,
and two other students havetheir PhDs.
So that's four students.
Those are just the ones thathave kept in touch with me and
we've spoken, who have achievedthe PhD.
So the program is beneficial,but What I want to encourage
(31:38):
people to do is to plan theprogram, especially I'm looking
at high school.
If when you decide to go toschool, even if you're not
deciding to come to ClarkAtlanta University, wherever
your institution of choice, makesure they have a study abroad
program and then find out whatyou need to do in order to
(31:58):
participate in that particularprogram and then put together an
international plan.
Don't just make it up as you goalong.
put together a plan and even ifthe plan doesn't work exactly
as you wanted it to you can youcan make modifications later on
but one of the most importantthings is to have a plan and um
(32:19):
when clark atlanta brings a lotof their um alum to school and
ask them what is your biggestregret i mean all of them say my
biggest regret was that ididn't study abroad
Dr. Shay (32:33):
It says it right there.
It
Dr. Brown (32:34):
says it right there.
It says it right there.
Dr. Shay (32:36):
Yes.
And I'll just add that it canall seem very intimidating, but
just be open to the process, beflexible, be adaptable, because,
I mean, that's truly what lifeis about, right?
You're not going to grow whenyou're comfortable.
And you literally just have toget to a point within yourself
where you just want more foryourself and just go for it.
(32:58):
a plan, like you said.
But I mean, to a certainextent, you might psych yourself
out if you overthink it aswell.
I think for a lot of people,especially things like the Peace
Corps, it's one of those thingswhere they think, ah, two-year
commitment.
I don't know, that's too long.
But, you know, it's going to bethe most amazing, amazingly
challenging, yet rewarding twoyears of your life.
(33:20):
You know, so I think there's somany more benefits than
challenges when it comes to itat the end of it.
And you have to just, you know,and again, I understand that
everyone's different and it'smaybe not for everyone, but just
be open to the process.
Dr. Brown (33:38):
We
Dr. Shay (33:38):
don't get the
Dr. Brown (33:38):
information out there.
Dr. Shay (33:41):
You're right.
Yeah, so it's a two-way street.
The information needs to be outthere more, but then you also
have to be courageous enough totake that step.
Gosh, this is so amazing.
Again, we could talk about thisall day.
We both would love to.
So if you want to reach out toeither one of us, you can leave
a comment.
And Dr.
Brown, can you let everyoneknow where to find you or follow
(34:01):
your work or how to contactyou?
Dr. Brown (34:03):
Contact me at pbrown at cau.edu and I'll be able to
get back with them.
Dr. Shay (34:11):
Amazing.
So this episode is a collectivereminder that passports are
more than travel documents.
They're keys to possibility.
When students go abroad,they're not only expanding the
world, but they return home asmore confident, curious, and
connected citizens.
Dr.
Brown reminded us today thatstudy abroad is so much more,
(34:31):
again, than passport stance.
It's opportunities to challengethe limits that we place in
ourselves and to see the worldand our place in it with new
eyes.
For students of color who maynot always see themselves
reflected in global spaces,these experiences can be
especially powerful, buildingnot just academic knowledge, but
again, confidence,adaptability, and a deeper
(34:52):
understanding of identity.
The barriers are real,financial, cultural, and
emotional.
But as we heard, the rewards ofgoing abroad are lifelong.
Exposure becomes expansion andcuriosity becomes connection.
So whether you're a student, aneducator, or someone looking
back on what you perceive as amissed opportunity, remember
(35:14):
that it's never too late toexplore beyond your borders in
any way that you can.
As always, thank you forjoining me today in the
Resolution Room.
I'm grateful you're here doingthis work alongside me.
If this episode spoke to you,I'd love for you to please
share.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
(35:35):
that's what will carry youforward.
so
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