September 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Summary
In this conversation, Dr. Nashay Lowe and Ric Stewart delve into the concept of Soul Country, a genre that blends the rich storytelling of country music with the soulful rhythms of R&B. They explore the historical roots of this genre, its cultural significance, and the challenges it faces in mainstream music. Ric shares insights from his documentary work and the importance of reclaiming musical histories, emphasizing how music can bridge cultural divides and foster unity. The discussion highlights the transformative power of music as a tool for healing and understanding.
Key Takeaways
- Soul country music honors the legacy of underrepresented contributions to country.
- The genre is a blend of rhythm and storytelling, moving beyond traditional country.
- Nashville's music scene has been slow to embrace the soul country movement.
- Reclaiming musical histories is crucial for both artists and listeners.
- Authenticity in music is key to its lasting impact.
- Music can serve as a powerful tool for healing cultural divides.
- The integration of different musical styles has historically brought people together.
- Challenges in the music industry often stem from commercial interests overshadowing artistic expression.
- Soul country aims to create a space for diverse voices in music.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro Music (00:01):
Thank you.
Dr. Shay (00:19):
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nashay Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
Country music has deep roots instorytelling, but what happens
(00:45):
when we bring the soul back intocountry?
In this episode, I'm joined byDJ, documentarian, and podcast
host Ric Stewart, whose projectSoul Country is reshaping how we
think about genre, identity,and cultural connection.
We'll explore how Soul Countrymusic honors the legacy of
underrepresented contributionsto country, bridge cultural
(01:06):
divides, and tell stories thatresonate far beyond radio.
scene to the power ofreclaiming musical history.
Ric shares how this genre ismore than a sound, it's a
statement.
So Rick, if you could introduceyourself to the people.
Ric Stewart (01:21):
Hi, Dr.
Nashay Lowe.
Thank you very much for theintro.
Yeah, I'm Ric Stewart.
I'm a DJ, documentarian,filmmaker, and I've got a
podcast going called SoulCountry, which we're going to
talk about today.
And I started out originally asa radio show in 2019 down in
New Orleans at WTOL.
And I had been blending somedifferent playlists and trying
to come up with a format Ireally liked.
(01:42):
And before that, I was doingone called Country Funk.
And I realized that was morenarrow and I was playing, I
needed to play more currentreleases of modern day
Americana.
And so that's what led me toSoul Country.
Nice.
And so what does Soul Countrymean to you?
(02:13):
You know, that's a prettyinteresting question because
every time I boil it down, I cancome up with a new way to take
it.
Like, you know, soul countrycould be a place where you find
yourself.
It could be the Southland ofAmerica or like, you know, soul
R&B could be the Southland plusthe Midwest, where if you look
at the whole situation, it'skind of up and down the rivers
more so than just the South.
But I think what we're talkingabout is the country that exists
(02:37):
outside of Nashville for themost part.
And that involves a rhythmsection.
I never really bought intostuff that was more weepy and
one guy on a guitar.
That's not what this is about.
You know, this is about havinga band, you know, like a rhythm,
but you could have it with aguitar.
And so Delta blues, you know,kind of did always have that.
And so I look at soul countryalso like Clint Eastwood is
famous for saying America onlyhas two original art forms being
(02:59):
jazz and the Western.
And so I've got soul andcountry.
And so I kind of always featurethe Westerns as my country more
so because I'm a big fan of oldWestern movies as a filmmaker
and film student.
And if you read about that,it's like why Hollywood is in
Hollywood and why the industrybecame was westerns so they were
a giant part of our culturethat got lost that's kind of
(03:19):
part of this like reclaiming allthese lost elements of culture
that still burble up from timeto time and they have all this
power and you're like oh where'dthat come from like when
Beyonce comes out with hercowboy album you know and it's
like it's a deep thing and it'snot just America that has
cowboys these are very largestories you know I had one of my
guests was a accordion playermainly named Bruce Sunpie Barnes
(03:40):
and Sunpie has played with PaulSimon and staying on tours but
he's he's known for his Zydecostyle but he also plays
harmonica and his father was amuch older guy who uh played
blues harmonica and taught himhow and you know he plays piano
too and he's verymulti-instrumental and he's
written books he's got books ofphotography books about culture
and he really spent a lot oftime on it but he'd opened up
(04:00):
like this can of worms herewhere it's like yeah i knew that
they had cowboys in mexico theygot the mariachis but they have
them in brazil too you knowthese things are bigger cultural
archetypes than we're used todealing with um and so country
uh to me was always around Youknow, I was like around when
they came out with, I'm a littlebit country, I'm a little bit
rock and roll when I was firstlistening to music.
So that was the Osmonds, Ithink.
(04:21):
But the, uh, it was alwaysthere.
My mom was from Texas and, um,you know, she used to sing Hank
Williams songs to me and stuff,but, uh, the, uh, the times
were, were the seventies, youknow, and, um, the, the rock
that was really popular on theradio included that too.
The Eagles had the biggestselling album of the 20th
century was the Eagles greatesthits, but that was heavily
(04:42):
country influenced.
So the music had always beenvery very popular in my
experience.
And then on the soul side, I'dbecome, you know, basically a
rock fan who wanted to figureout where it all came from and
why it was so good.
The classic rock, mainly of theBritish invasion of the 60s,
the harder side of that, whichwas like the Stones and the Who
and the Yardbirds and the Kinksand Led Zeppelin.
I was like, what's drivingthis?
(05:04):
Pink Floyd even.
Like, why is that guitar, youknow, grabbing my attention?
And it was blues.
You know, I was being told thisprobably from before I was 10
because I was next to a wholebunch of other music heads.
And I continue to follow thatup and And I started playing
blues guitar when I was about21.
And everybody always looked atme as the blues guy.
And I'd lived on the south sideof Chicago and in Oakland and
kind of lived a lot of thesethings, lived in New Orleans.
(05:25):
So I'd been along at a lot ofthe places with the blues, like
holy grounds.
And there was some holinessthere to me in classical records
that could do the trick for youevery time.
So I was trying to, you know,reverse engineer classic rock,
which was what got me into bluesand then eventually more into
country.
Intro Music (05:42):
Wow.
Dr. Shay (05:43):
And do you come from like a musical family?
How did that get into yourblood from the beginning?
Ric Stewart (05:49):
I can't really say that that's true.
I mean, like everybody else hadkind of picked up a few piano
lessons and quit.
And my mom was like, you know,you seem to be tapping your legs
a lot.
You know, you should playdrums.
I was always a rhythm firstlistener.
And so I was interested inbands that had, you know, a
drummer and a good drummer.
And it's like the cliche, yourband's only as good as your
(06:10):
drummer.
So that never failed either.
You know, like a lot of theselike things that turned out to
be like tidy little phrases werelike, oh, it really works, you
know.
It's amazing how it comestogether.
And it's really about thesongs, too, you know.
So in music, if you're going tobe, you know, serious about the
business, that's who makes themoney and that's where the point
of origination is.
Anybody can cover Beatlessongs, but nobody can go out and
(06:32):
write 120 of them or whatever.
So it's tough to be an imitatorand you have to come up with
something new.
And soul country, you know, Iwas going to say there is a
subgenre called country soul,but it's not really widely
referred to.
But I would say it's muscleshoals and stacks.
Like I said, this kind ofoutside of the professional
music business type of, youknow, and somebody like, you
(06:54):
know, Nutbush City Limits byTina Turner, you know, it's R&B,
but it's still country, youknow.
Dr. Shay (06:59):
Yeah, I love that song.
Ric Stewart (07:01):
Like if you're talking about a place that's in
the American West, it's stillcountry, you know, like there's
things like the subject mattercould turn it into that.
Dr. Shay (07:09):
Right.
Hey, can you talk to me alittle bit about your
documentary?
Like what's that about?
What are you working on there?
And I'd love to get into whatyou uncovered more on the
research research side of doingthat documentary for Soul
Country.
Ric Stewart (07:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd originally was workingon a project that called the
Blues Center in New Orleans,which was an interactive music
museum, but it was going torequire millions of dollars.
And so I had that as a plan andlike a prospectus.
And it was it was part of thiswas I was going to create a
documentary called New OrleansHome of the Blues, question
mark.
And, you know, where does theblues really come from?
(07:44):
And I've gotten into this insome of the episodes to Chris
Thomas King, who is famous as anactor as well, but is a great
blues musician and the son ofanother great musician from
Baton Rouge, but he's tied in alittle bit with that culture of
the Creole black community ofsoutheastern Louisiana, let's
say.
And that it was really, youknow, a French expression like
(08:07):
Sacrebleu that was kind ofprofanity really at the time
that basically was saying, youknow, we reject your way of
doing it, you know, and it wasreally about the white
Anglo-Saxon kind of conqueringforce.
So all the people on the otherside of the equation included
the Italians and the and theother minorities, especially the
Native Americans, really, Ithink we're kind of left out of
the story.
(08:28):
And anyway, so that wasbeginning of the exploration of
the blues.
So I spent a few years reallylooking into this and talking to
a lot of experts.
And, you know, it becameobvious to me that it didn't get
invented on the Delta becausethat's occurring in a time of
the 1920s and 30s, et cetera.
But that's long after thesethings happened in New Orleans,
going back all the way to the1700s.
So like there was Congo Squareand there was a holy space there
(08:50):
where it was, they gave thanksfor the harvest with, dances and
music.
And this was the NativeAmericans were doing that
before, you know, the colonistsever showed up from Spain,
France.
And it is French and Spanish.
And that's another thing, youknow, that the rules were very
different.
And even during the slaveryera, there was much more time to
be able to play music.
(09:11):
And so the Congo Square existedat that time as a place where
freedmen and all these otherfolks would gather for this
weekly celebration.
And then that was where kind ofthey put the first New Orleans
Jazz Festival right near there.
And it is a park now, anArmstrong Park.
So it's part of the tourism ofNew Orleans.
And all this stuff's just kindof part of the wallpaper down
there.
But it's like that reallyhappened.
(09:32):
And you're going back to theearly 1800s for that.
And then the recording era ofmusic started in the early
1900s, really.
So everything that we even knowabout music you could play is
coming from only the last 100years, 115 years.
So there's a lot of history.
But in the end, yeah, the blueskind of seeps into everything
because it was this veryeffective kind of amalgamation
(09:54):
and boiling down of all thestuff that worked.
Dr. Shay (09:58):
Wow.
And so why do you thinkreclaiming these musical
histories is important, not justfor the artists, but for the
listeners too?
Ric Stewart (10:07):
When I look at this stuff, you know, why is music
that I like good and music thatI like isn't good?
Usually I end up with a wordlike authenticity.
You know, it's like, this isreal.
This person feels this or thisis something genuine here.
And even to get to the spotwhere I could play a few licks
like that on the guitar, it'sabout the feel.
It's about like, wow, I'mreally kind of, I'm getting
somewhere with this.
(10:27):
Now, a lot of music today, onthe other hand, is made for the
money and it's commercial andpeople get into the business for
that commercial and rarelystumble upon this kind of feel.
So you can sort of tell, youknow, but mainly by listening.
One time I was beginning mywork career, my early 20s, and I
was interviewing a fellow whohad run a jazz music record
(10:49):
label in Chicago for like 30, 40years.
And he was sort of emeritus ofthat.
And he was working as a latersecond career for Electronic
Arts, the video game company.
And he helped them get theirmusic licensing and stuff.
And he started talking about,you know, good music.
And I was like, how do you knowwhen it's good music?
And he's like, well, you listento it enough of it and then
you'll know and that's why theycan sell you know the teeny
(11:13):
bopper music to teenagers youknow so this is the opposite end
of that this is the musicthat's going to be around
forever and it's somehow basedon time-honored things and it's
you know i guess there's a wayto mess up the blues but it's
not a category that people rushinto trying to make money so
it's a kind of authenticitycategory like only stevie ray
(11:33):
vaughan ever said put my recordsin the blues section Everybody
else was like, put them in therock section, they'll sell more
there, you know.
Right,
Dr. Shay (11:41):
right.
Ric Stewart (11:42):
If they were on the borderline, yeah.
Dr. Shay (11:45):
So it seems like you've been all over the U.S.,
you know, exploring this genre.
And so now that we're here inNashville, how has Nashville's
music scene, which is obviouslyfamous, how has that responded
to the idea of Soul Country?
Um,
Ric Stewart (12:04):
with a wave of the hand, I would say that like not
much happened.
I mean, it's, it's me, youknow, chasing down people to go
interview.
And I still do a lot of myinterviews out of new Orleans
and I get, I get funding, um, inpart from the new Orleans jazz
festival foundation.
Um, so I'm on a mission to likeexplore up here in a way, but,
um, I realized that, yeah, thesoul country concept to me also
(12:24):
kind of, there's a middle, themid South, you know, there's
kind of a region there and I'mfrom Cincinnati, which kind of
echoes that a little bit, butit's, you know, there's things
going on here that art going ondown there, you know.
One of the most formativeinfluences on me ever, which led
me to come into Nashville in away, was Tony Joe White.
So he's best known for writingPolk Salad Annie, which Elvis,
(12:44):
you know, used to play on stagefor years and years.
And he'd written Rainy Night inGeorgia.
He's, you know, as Chuck Berrysaid, he's the most underrated
American songwriter of all time.
But, you know, he'd moved toNashville.
He was really from northernLouisiana.
But I started realizing, like,hey, he's found a way to live
here.
This is like an easier, it's aneasier life than, the heat and
hurricanes of new orleans or thebig city trappings of new york
(13:06):
and la so if you're in the musicbusiness and you wanted
something like a house you couldafford this might be the place
to be so it had been kind ofdrawn me in and it like it
resembled my home turf a littlebit you know the hills and the
river town kind of vibe um andthe kind of green surroundings
so i like nashville as anenvironment for music i don't
(13:27):
sense that it has a very goodblues scene per se um the Some
people who recreate that aregood, but it's not.
And there had been, you know, anice R&B scene here in maybe
the 50s and the 60s, and JimiHendrix kind of entered into
that when he left the Army, andit was part of the Chitlin'
Circuit then.
(13:47):
So, I mean, I think, and theydid put an exhibit together at
the Country Music Hall of Fame,which was called Night Train to
Nashville or something likethat, and it was a retrospective
on the R&B era here.
But that era, in a way, hascome to a close a lot of the
record labels that were run byfolks in the 40s and 50s when
they got to retirement age theysold into the majors and took a
(14:10):
you know check for retirementlike Jerry Wexler so it kind of
was an era that went from likemaybe 1947 to 1974 and then
abruptly stopped then it wasn'tabout the roots anymore and the
business became veryconsolidated the radio stations
the record labels became fewerand fewer and the regional
scenes kind of dried up I meanNashville being an exception but
(14:32):
it place like Cincinnati peoplewould kind of like pack their
bags and go to one of the coaststo get into the music business
and it was a rare thing to havea local music scene in the 80s
and 90s and I think there's beensome efforts to you know
restock that you know but I lookat a place like Memphis which
was you know a hubbub of thingsin the 50s I don't really sense
that that's going on right nowbut as far as the Roots
(14:53):
performers it is the oldperformers and people who
imitate the old performers Ithink in a way that keep the
Roots music alive but somebodylike Chris Stapleton comes along
and just kind of knocks overeverything and does it sort of
the right way based on this kindof you know mindset like he
never really veered off what hewas doing he's very very bluesy
he's emerged it in with hiscountry he's probably from
(15:14):
Kentucky but he you know he'skind of sensed all these musics
out there and when I saw hisversion of the Star Spangled
Banner before the Super Bowl Iwas like wow what a nice bookend
of the Hendrix version whichwas like wild and complex and
his was like minimal and youknow hit the notes and get me
out of here you know like reallyreally effective Um, so I do
see, you know, there's, there isa sense of that, you know, in
(15:36):
country to this day and, youknow, um, not just the black
performers that are, you know,kind of keeping all that roots
traditional live.
Um, I would say like, you know,Nora Jones would be another
example who's had a verysuccessful career, which is kind
of on top of a country elementand a blues and jazz element at
the same time.
Dr. Shay (15:56):
Nice.
And so, um, when you weretalking about, you know, not the
push away from But what aresome other challenges and
opportunities in bringing thesound to mainstream spaces?
Ric Stewart (16:11):
Yeah, well, I think just working with some of the
bigger premiere artists isprobably going to launch the
show into the right orbit.
You know, like, should I getRobert Plant and Alison Krauss
to come by or Elton John orsomething that really ups my
viewership?
So I ride as my guest listrides.
(16:31):
But yeah, I think it's there.
It is meant to be popular andappreciated.
There was an album, forexample, called Rhythm, Country
and Blues that I think wasUniversal.
put it out or MCA in 1994 wentstraight to number one in the
country charts.
But you find things there like,you know, Little Richard doing
a duet with Tanya Tucker, youknow, and they did that just
(16:52):
over and over again with likeone artist from one field, one
from the other.
So, I mean, I think that the,you know, finding the right
artists when they want to tapinto something like, you know,
this vibe at the right time, youknow, that's really the answer.
Dr. Shay (17:08):
And how can music, especially soul country, in your
opinion, be a tool for healingcultural divides that we
experience today?
Ric Stewart (17:18):
Yeah, I think that's kind of like in the,
that's in the inception of thewhole thing, right?
I'm trying to bring peopletogether to share an
appreciation of great art andgreat music and have good times.
And the more minutes andseconds you spend thinking about
music, that's time you didn'tspend thinking about something
that was more deleterious toyour mind, you know.
And, you know, Bobby Rush, he'snow 92, maybe.
(17:41):
He's on tour in Europe withKenny Wayne Shepard, and they
just did a duet album.
And it's called Young FashionedWays.
And I've heard a few tracks.
It's really great.
But he said to me about inepisode two of the podcast that
was down at his place inJackson, Mississippi.
He's like, I see what you'redoing.
You're bringing peopletogether.
And I'm like, you got it, man.
And, you know, so it's good tohave people get it when, you
(18:03):
know, they're the right people.
The right people get it.
It can be a small show,
Dr. Shay (18:06):
but
Ric Stewart (18:06):
yeah.
Dr. Shay (18:07):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I guess what lessons canwe take from the way that music
transcends conflict, even whenwords fall short?
Intro Music (18:15):
Yeah.
Ric Stewart (18:16):
Well, I think in a way, I mean, you know, not to
get whatever, put on myphilosophical hat here, but the
erosion of, yeah, the erosion oflike segregation and all that
and the actual coming togetherof everybody, music was really
key to all that.
And initially there was a burstof music went around the 20s,
which was the jazz age, youknow.
And in the jazz age,Afro-American music kind of
(18:38):
conquered the globe.
It already happened in the 20s.
Then it sort of happens againafter World War II.
But with the integratedmilitary, you know, rock and
roll was like a, barrier thatkind of very visibly in the news
media, you know, got brokendown.
You know, people were dancingto the devil's music at one
level, the religious folks.
And then I think on anotherlevel, it was, um, it took until
(18:58):
probably the sixties.
So you really had integratedaudiences everywhere.
Um, but that, that, that washappening and around the edges,
you know, not in the South,maybe, but it was happening
everywhere else that this musichad brought everybody together.
Cause it was, it was black inthe inception, the original, um,
you know, the rhythm side of itfor sure, you know?
I think that the earliest rockand roll records, um, it's hard
(19:20):
to tell which one, you know,there's a debate about all that
stuff.
I mean, Hank Williams is on oneside and he's got, um, moving
on over.
It's pretty good rock trackright there.
1947.
And you got like train kept aroll on recording Cincinnati
King records.
Um, you got, you know, otherrecords that happened maybe
around 1950 that people say thatabout.
So, I mean, it's kind ofhappened in that timeframe, but
(19:40):
society wasn't there yet.
You know what I mean?
These, this music was, it was aleader.
And I, and I think when you sawthe role Rolling Stones come to
America in the mid-60s.
They go straight to ChessRecords, and they record where
Muddy Waters recorded and AlanWolfe, and they give a lot of
props to those artists.
So that was kind of thebeginning of a push-up into
preeminence in the whiteviewership space, how great
(20:03):
those artists were.
And then it's in mydocumentary.
Mike Bloomfield says to BillGraham, why don't you book in
B.B.
King and Albert King and BuddyGuy as opening acts for these
rock artists when you play themat the Fillmore?
And then that really started tocement the fact that this music
has a history, you know, we'replaying cover songs of Hoochie
Coochie Man or whatever.
Here's the guy who really wrotethat or whatever, you know.
So I think that was a turningpoint really probably was back
(20:26):
then.
And I think ever since then,it's become obvious if you were
a student of rock, if you weregoing to really play it, you're
going to have to get the blueschops down.
Dr. Shay (20:35):
And as you work on your documentary and continue
with the podcast, what storieshave stood out to you as
examples of music being bringingpeople together?
Ric Stewart (20:47):
Uh, well, maybe my last interview series, I had
Bobby Rush in that one too.
And he was talking about how hewent to China and he, you know,
he convinced him that, youknow, he's a great entertainer.
He's got these peopleentertained.
He will play the same building,which was like a stadium
tomorrow.
And they're going to give himlike a dollar on every, he made
a lot of money on that show.
But, um, I think in terms of,um, yeah, bringing folks
(21:09):
together, you know, I look backat the, the artists list, um,
that I've been able tointerview, um, you know, some of
them just kind of, I think it'srelating stories and kind of
being, I have a transparentshowcase.
They have something to say,we're going to get together and
they're going to be able to bethat.
And I think that that, um, justsort of, you know, plays it
(21:32):
out.
Dr. Shay (21:34):
Soul
Ric Stewart (21:35):
country could be, like I said, on the inside, you
know, just turning it the insideout.
Dr. Shay (21:40):
I love that.
Well, Rick, this has been anamazing conversation.
I've already learned so muchfrom you.
Um, and I'm I'm hoping that ourlisteners can learn even more.
So can you tell them where tofollow you and your work?
Ric Stewart (21:54):
Yeah, I keep everything pretty much navigable
from soulcountry.com, spelledlike it sounds.
And then we have a lot of thefeatures on the, if you get to
the YouTube channel, it's gotabout 45 exclusive videos and
trailers for some of the longerpieces.
And the documentary is calledBlues Rock Hits Soul Country,
(22:14):
available, plays right on thehomepage and on the origin tab.
I refer to it as my originstory because it goes back about
30 years and covers interviewswith...
With long-gone legends likeAlan Toussaint, Earl King, and
Doc Watson, and Tony Jo White,like I mentioned, John Oates is
in there.
There's a lot of folks that arepart of that New Orleans scene,
(22:35):
and I think that was theoriginal melting pot of the
sound.
So that kind of, I guess, isthe answer.
SoulCountry.com.
All right, so I wanted to givea final word.
You know, James Brown, youknow, probably was the most
influential musician of the 20thcentury by a lot of accounts.
And he always had a big countryaspect to what he was doing.
(22:56):
And in 1979, he fulfilled alifelong ambition by coming to
Nashville and playing the GrandOle Opry.
And he did play some HankWilliams covers and everything.
And he said at the time, hisquote was, country's just white
man's blues.
You know, and that it was truein the original incorporation in
the 20s, people were drawingall this influence off black
(23:17):
performers.
They were creating somethingnew and different and that
became very interesting to blackperformers too.
And so we didn't really getinto DeFord Bailey and the
D'Opry in the earlier years andCharlie Pride became a big flag
bearer for that.
And then now Darius Ruckerreally, you know, inhabits that
space pretty full time.
But he's not alone and it is abig thing.
And if you look at MuscleShoals and Stax and the, you
(23:39):
know, outside of Nashville sortof country rhythm blues hybrids,
you know, and Malico recordsand there's a lot of great stuff
that's out there that doesn'tfit a genre and you know people
have that problem with themarketing in the industry
doesn't mean they're not thebest artists around so
Dr. Shay (23:56):
Thanks, Rick.
So today's conversation withRick reminds us that music is
not just entertainment.
It's a reflection of who weare, where we come from, and
where we're going.
Soul country isn't just agenre.
It's a reclaiming of space anda way to honor history while
building new bridges ofunderstanding.
Whether it's playlists, hisdocumentary, or his podcast,
(24:19):
Rick is showing us howstorytelling through song can
challenge assumptions, celebrateshared humanity, and create
space for conversations that wedidn't know we needed.
As always, thank you forjoining me in the Resolution
Room.
If this conversation moved you,challenged you, or gave you
something to carry forward,consider supporting the show.
(24:41):
You can explore our wearablewisdom collection in our Mind
Shop, where each piece isdesigned to spark reflection and
dialogue.
You can also join our growingcommunity for behind-the-scenes
conversations, resources, andsupport of your own journey
through tension andtransformation.
just want to say thank you in asimple way.
(25:02):
You can always buy me a coffee.
Every gesture helps keep thespace going.
All the links are in the shownotes.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
that's what will carry youforward.
Thank you.
Dr. Shay (00:19):
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Nashay Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
Country music has deep roots instorytelling, but what happens
(00:45):
when we bring the soul back intocountry?
In this episode, I'm joined byDJ, documentarian, and podcast
host Ric Stewart, whose projectSoul Country is reshaping how we
think about genre, identity,and cultural connection.
We'll explore how Soul Countrymusic honors the legacy of
underrepresented contributionsto country, bridge cultural
(01:06):
divides, and tell stories thatresonate far beyond radio.
scene to the power ofreclaiming musical history.
Ric shares how this genre ismore than a sound, it's a
statement.
So Rick, if you could introduceyourself to the people.
Ric Stewart (01:21):
Hi, Dr.
Nashay Lowe.
Thank you very much for theintro.
Yeah, I'm Ric Stewart.
I'm a DJ, documentarian,filmmaker, and I've got a
podcast going called SoulCountry, which we're going to
talk about today.
And I started out originally asa radio show in 2019 down in
New Orleans at WTOL.
And I had been blending somedifferent playlists and trying
to come up with a format Ireally liked.
(01:42):
And before that, I was doingone called Country Funk.
And I realized that was morenarrow and I was playing, I
needed to play more currentreleases of modern day
Americana.
And so that's what led me toSoul Country.
Nice.
And so what does Soul Countrymean to you?
(02:13):
You know, that's a prettyinteresting question because
every time I boil it down, I cancome up with a new way to take
it.
Like, you know, soul countrycould be a place where you find
yourself.
It could be the Southland ofAmerica or like, you know, soul
R&B could be the Southland plusthe Midwest, where if you look
at the whole situation, it'skind of up and down the rivers
more so than just the South.
But I think what we're talkingabout is the country that exists
(02:37):
outside of Nashville for themost part.
And that involves a rhythmsection.
I never really bought intostuff that was more weepy and
one guy on a guitar.
That's not what this is about.
You know, this is about havinga band, you know, like a rhythm,
but you could have it with aguitar.
And so Delta blues, you know,kind of did always have that.
And so I look at soul countryalso like Clint Eastwood is
famous for saying America onlyhas two original art forms being
(02:59):
jazz and the Western.
And so I've got soul andcountry.
And so I kind of always featurethe Westerns as my country more
so because I'm a big fan of oldWestern movies as a filmmaker
and film student.
And if you read about that,it's like why Hollywood is in
Hollywood and why the industrybecame was westerns so they were
a giant part of our culturethat got lost that's kind of
(03:19):
part of this like reclaiming allthese lost elements of culture
that still burble up from timeto time and they have all this
power and you're like oh where'dthat come from like when
Beyonce comes out with hercowboy album you know and it's
like it's a deep thing and it'snot just America that has
cowboys these are very largestories you know I had one of my
guests was a accordion playermainly named Bruce Sunpie Barnes
(03:40):
and Sunpie has played with PaulSimon and staying on tours but
he's he's known for his Zydecostyle but he also plays
harmonica and his father was amuch older guy who uh played
blues harmonica and taught himhow and you know he plays piano
too and he's verymulti-instrumental and he's
written books he's got books ofphotography books about culture
and he really spent a lot oftime on it but he'd opened up
(04:00):
like this can of worms herewhere it's like yeah i knew that
they had cowboys in mexico theygot the mariachis but they have
them in brazil too you knowthese things are bigger cultural
archetypes than we're used todealing with um and so country
uh to me was always around Youknow, I was like around when
they came out with, I'm a littlebit country, I'm a little bit
rock and roll when I was firstlistening to music.
So that was the Osmonds, Ithink.
(04:21):
But the, uh, it was alwaysthere.
My mom was from Texas and, um,you know, she used to sing Hank
Williams songs to me and stuff,but, uh, the, uh, the times
were, were the seventies, youknow, and, um, the, the rock
that was really popular on theradio included that too.
The Eagles had the biggestselling album of the 20th
century was the Eagles greatesthits, but that was heavily
(04:42):
country influenced.
So the music had always beenvery very popular in my
experience.
And then on the soul side, I'dbecome, you know, basically a
rock fan who wanted to figureout where it all came from and
why it was so good.
The classic rock, mainly of theBritish invasion of the 60s,
the harder side of that, whichwas like the Stones and the Who
and the Yardbirds and the Kinksand Led Zeppelin.
I was like, what's drivingthis?
(05:04):
Pink Floyd even.
Like, why is that guitar, youknow, grabbing my attention?
And it was blues.
You know, I was being told thisprobably from before I was 10
because I was next to a wholebunch of other music heads.
And I continue to follow thatup and And I started playing
blues guitar when I was about21.
And everybody always looked atme as the blues guy.
And I'd lived on the south sideof Chicago and in Oakland and
kind of lived a lot of thesethings, lived in New Orleans.
(05:25):
So I'd been along at a lot ofthe places with the blues, like
holy grounds.
And there was some holinessthere to me in classical records
that could do the trick for youevery time.
So I was trying to, you know,reverse engineer classic rock,
which was what got me into bluesand then eventually more into
country.
Intro Music (05:42):
Wow.
Dr. Shay (05:43):
And do you come from like a musical family?
How did that get into yourblood from the beginning?
Ric Stewart (05:49):
I can't really say that that's true.
I mean, like everybody else hadkind of picked up a few piano
lessons and quit.
And my mom was like, you know,you seem to be tapping your legs
a lot.
You know, you should playdrums.
I was always a rhythm firstlistener.
And so I was interested inbands that had, you know, a
drummer and a good drummer.
And it's like the cliche, yourband's only as good as your
(06:10):
drummer.
So that never failed either.
You know, like a lot of theselike things that turned out to
be like tidy little phrases werelike, oh, it really works, you
know.
It's amazing how it comestogether.
And it's really about thesongs, too, you know.
So in music, if you're going tobe, you know, serious about the
business, that's who makes themoney and that's where the point
of origination is.
Anybody can cover Beatlessongs, but nobody can go out and
(06:32):
write 120 of them or whatever.
So it's tough to be an imitatorand you have to come up with
something new.
And soul country, you know, Iwas going to say there is a
subgenre called country soul,but it's not really widely
referred to.
But I would say it's muscleshoals and stacks.
Like I said, this kind ofoutside of the professional
music business type of, youknow, and somebody like, you
(06:54):
know, Nutbush City Limits byTina Turner, you know, it's R&B,
but it's still country, youknow.
Dr. Shay (06:59):
Yeah, I love that song.
Ric Stewart (07:01):
Like if you're talking about a place that's in
the American West, it's stillcountry, you know, like there's
things like the subject mattercould turn it into that.
Dr. Shay (07:09):
Right.
Hey, can you talk to me alittle bit about your
documentary?
Like what's that about?
What are you working on there?
And I'd love to get into whatyou uncovered more on the
research research side of doingthat documentary for Soul
Country.
Ric Stewart (07:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd originally was workingon a project that called the
Blues Center in New Orleans,which was an interactive music
museum, but it was going torequire millions of dollars.
And so I had that as a plan andlike a prospectus.
And it was it was part of thiswas I was going to create a
documentary called New OrleansHome of the Blues, question
mark.
And, you know, where does theblues really come from?
(07:44):
And I've gotten into this insome of the episodes to Chris
Thomas King, who is famous as anactor as well, but is a great
blues musician and the son ofanother great musician from
Baton Rouge, but he's tied in alittle bit with that culture of
the Creole black community ofsoutheastern Louisiana, let's
say.
And that it was really, youknow, a French expression like
(08:07):
Sacrebleu that was kind ofprofanity really at the time
that basically was saying, youknow, we reject your way of
doing it, you know, and it wasreally about the white
Anglo-Saxon kind of conqueringforce.
So all the people on the otherside of the equation included
the Italians and the and theother minorities, especially the
Native Americans, really, Ithink we're kind of left out of
the story.
(08:28):
And anyway, so that wasbeginning of the exploration of
the blues.
So I spent a few years reallylooking into this and talking to
a lot of experts.
And, you know, it becameobvious to me that it didn't get
invented on the Delta becausethat's occurring in a time of
the 1920s and 30s, et cetera.
But that's long after thesethings happened in New Orleans,
going back all the way to the1700s.
So like there was Congo Squareand there was a holy space there
(08:50):
where it was, they gave thanksfor the harvest with, dances and
music.
And this was the NativeAmericans were doing that
before, you know, the colonistsever showed up from Spain,
France.
And it is French and Spanish.
And that's another thing, youknow, that the rules were very
different.
And even during the slaveryera, there was much more time to
be able to play music.
(09:11):
And so the Congo Square existedat that time as a place where
freedmen and all these otherfolks would gather for this
weekly celebration.
And then that was where kind ofthey put the first New Orleans
Jazz Festival right near there.
And it is a park now, anArmstrong Park.
So it's part of the tourism ofNew Orleans.
And all this stuff's just kindof part of the wallpaper down
there.
But it's like that reallyhappened.
(09:32):
And you're going back to theearly 1800s for that.
And then the recording era ofmusic started in the early
1900s, really.
So everything that we even knowabout music you could play is
coming from only the last 100years, 115 years.
So there's a lot of history.
But in the end, yeah, the blueskind of seeps into everything
because it was this veryeffective kind of amalgamation
(09:54):
and boiling down of all thestuff that worked.
Dr. Shay (09:58):
Wow.
And so why do you thinkreclaiming these musical
histories is important, not justfor the artists, but for the
listeners too?
Ric Stewart (10:07):
When I look at this stuff, you know, why is music
that I like good and music thatI like isn't good?
Usually I end up with a wordlike authenticity.
You know, it's like, this isreal.
This person feels this or thisis something genuine here.
And even to get to the spotwhere I could play a few licks
like that on the guitar, it'sabout the feel.
It's about like, wow, I'mreally kind of, I'm getting
somewhere with this.
(10:27):
Now, a lot of music today, onthe other hand, is made for the
money and it's commercial andpeople get into the business for
that commercial and rarelystumble upon this kind of feel.
So you can sort of tell, youknow, but mainly by listening.
One time I was beginning mywork career, my early 20s, and I
was interviewing a fellow whohad run a jazz music record
(10:49):
label in Chicago for like 30, 40years.
And he was sort of emeritus ofthat.
And he was working as a latersecond career for Electronic
Arts, the video game company.
And he helped them get theirmusic licensing and stuff.
And he started talking about,you know, good music.
And I was like, how do you knowwhen it's good music?
And he's like, well, you listento it enough of it and then
you'll know and that's why theycan sell you know the teeny
(11:13):
bopper music to teenagers youknow so this is the opposite end
of that this is the musicthat's going to be around
forever and it's somehow basedon time-honored things and it's
you know i guess there's a wayto mess up the blues but it's
not a category that people rushinto trying to make money so
it's a kind of authenticitycategory like only stevie ray
(11:33):
vaughan ever said put my recordsin the blues section Everybody
else was like, put them in therock section, they'll sell more
there, you know.
Right,
Dr. Shay (11:41):
right.
Ric Stewart (11:42):
If they were on the borderline, yeah.
Dr. Shay (11:45):
So it seems like you've been all over the U.S.,
you know, exploring this genre.
And so now that we're here inNashville, how has Nashville's
music scene, which is obviouslyfamous, how has that responded
to the idea of Soul Country?
Um,
Ric Stewart (12:04):
with a wave of the hand, I would say that like not
much happened.
I mean, it's, it's me, youknow, chasing down people to go
interview.
And I still do a lot of myinterviews out of new Orleans
and I get, I get funding, um, inpart from the new Orleans jazz
festival foundation.
Um, so I'm on a mission to likeexplore up here in a way, but,
um, I realized that, yeah, thesoul country concept to me also
(12:24):
kind of, there's a middle, themid South, you know, there's
kind of a region there and I'mfrom Cincinnati, which kind of
echoes that a little bit, butit's, you know, there's things
going on here that art going ondown there, you know.
One of the most formativeinfluences on me ever, which led
me to come into Nashville in away, was Tony Joe White.
So he's best known for writingPolk Salad Annie, which Elvis,
(12:44):
you know, used to play on stagefor years and years.
And he'd written Rainy Night inGeorgia.
He's, you know, as Chuck Berrysaid, he's the most underrated
American songwriter of all time.
But, you know, he'd moved toNashville.
He was really from northernLouisiana.
But I started realizing, like,hey, he's found a way to live
here.
This is like an easier, it's aneasier life than, the heat and
hurricanes of new orleans or thebig city trappings of new york
(13:06):
and la so if you're in the musicbusiness and you wanted
something like a house you couldafford this might be the place
to be so it had been kind ofdrawn me in and it like it
resembled my home turf a littlebit you know the hills and the
river town kind of vibe um andthe kind of green surroundings
so i like nashville as anenvironment for music i don't
(13:27):
sense that it has a very goodblues scene per se um the Some
people who recreate that aregood, but it's not.
And there had been, you know, anice R&B scene here in maybe
the 50s and the 60s, and JimiHendrix kind of entered into
that when he left the Army, andit was part of the Chitlin'
Circuit then.
(13:47):
So, I mean, I think, and theydid put an exhibit together at
the Country Music Hall of Fame,which was called Night Train to
Nashville or something likethat, and it was a retrospective
on the R&B era here.
But that era, in a way, hascome to a close a lot of the
record labels that were run byfolks in the 40s and 50s when
they got to retirement age theysold into the majors and took a
(14:10):
you know check for retirementlike Jerry Wexler so it kind of
was an era that went from likemaybe 1947 to 1974 and then
abruptly stopped then it wasn'tabout the roots anymore and the
business became veryconsolidated the radio stations
the record labels became fewerand fewer and the regional
scenes kind of dried up I meanNashville being an exception but
(14:32):
it place like Cincinnati peoplewould kind of like pack their
bags and go to one of the coaststo get into the music business
and it was a rare thing to havea local music scene in the 80s
and 90s and I think there's beensome efforts to you know
restock that you know but I lookat a place like Memphis which
was you know a hubbub of thingsin the 50s I don't really sense
that that's going on right nowbut as far as the Roots
(14:53):
performers it is the oldperformers and people who
imitate the old performers Ithink in a way that keep the
Roots music alive but somebodylike Chris Stapleton comes along
and just kind of knocks overeverything and does it sort of
the right way based on this kindof you know mindset like he
never really veered off what hewas doing he's very very bluesy
he's emerged it in with hiscountry he's probably from
(15:14):
Kentucky but he you know he'skind of sensed all these musics
out there and when I saw hisversion of the Star Spangled
Banner before the Super Bowl Iwas like wow what a nice bookend
of the Hendrix version whichwas like wild and complex and
his was like minimal and youknow hit the notes and get me
out of here you know like reallyreally effective Um, so I do
see, you know, there's, there isa sense of that, you know, in
(15:36):
country to this day and, youknow, um, not just the black
performers that are, you know,kind of keeping all that roots
traditional live.
Um, I would say like, you know,Nora Jones would be another
example who's had a verysuccessful career, which is kind
of on top of a country elementand a blues and jazz element at
the same time.
Dr. Shay (15:56):
Nice.
And so, um, when you weretalking about, you know, not the
push away from But what aresome other challenges and
opportunities in bringing thesound to mainstream spaces?
Ric Stewart (16:11):
Yeah, well, I think just working with some of the
bigger premiere artists isprobably going to launch the
show into the right orbit.
You know, like, should I getRobert Plant and Alison Krauss
to come by or Elton John orsomething that really ups my
viewership?
So I ride as my guest listrides.
(16:31):
But yeah, I think it's there.
It is meant to be popular andappreciated.
There was an album, forexample, called Rhythm, Country
and Blues that I think wasUniversal.
put it out or MCA in 1994 wentstraight to number one in the
country charts.
But you find things there like,you know, Little Richard doing
a duet with Tanya Tucker, youknow, and they did that just
(16:52):
over and over again with likeone artist from one field, one
from the other.
So, I mean, I think that the,you know, finding the right
artists when they want to tapinto something like, you know,
this vibe at the right time, youknow, that's really the answer.
Dr. Shay (17:08):
And how can music, especially soul country, in your
opinion, be a tool for healingcultural divides that we
experience today?
Ric Stewart (17:18):
Yeah, I think that's kind of like in the,
that's in the inception of thewhole thing, right?
I'm trying to bring peopletogether to share an
appreciation of great art andgreat music and have good times.
And the more minutes andseconds you spend thinking about
music, that's time you didn'tspend thinking about something
that was more deleterious toyour mind, you know.
And, you know, Bobby Rush, he'snow 92, maybe.
(17:41):
He's on tour in Europe withKenny Wayne Shepard, and they
just did a duet album.
And it's called Young FashionedWays.
And I've heard a few tracks.
It's really great.
But he said to me about inepisode two of the podcast that
was down at his place inJackson, Mississippi.
He's like, I see what you'redoing.
You're bringing peopletogether.
And I'm like, you got it, man.
And, you know, so it's good tohave people get it when, you
(18:03):
know, they're the right people.
The right people get it.
It can be a small show,
Dr. Shay (18:06):
but
Ric Stewart (18:06):
yeah.
Dr. Shay (18:07):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I guess what lessons canwe take from the way that music
transcends conflict, even whenwords fall short?
Intro Music (18:15):
Yeah.
Ric Stewart (18:16):
Well, I think in a way, I mean, you know, not to
get whatever, put on myphilosophical hat here, but the
erosion of, yeah, the erosion oflike segregation and all that
and the actual coming togetherof everybody, music was really
key to all that.
And initially there was a burstof music went around the 20s,
which was the jazz age, youknow.
And in the jazz age,Afro-American music kind of
(18:38):
conquered the globe.
It already happened in the 20s.
Then it sort of happens againafter World War II.
But with the integratedmilitary, you know, rock and
roll was like a, barrier thatkind of very visibly in the news
media, you know, got brokendown.
You know, people were dancingto the devil's music at one
level, the religious folks.
And then I think on anotherlevel, it was, um, it took until
(18:58):
probably the sixties.
So you really had integratedaudiences everywhere.
Um, but that, that, that washappening and around the edges,
you know, not in the South,maybe, but it was happening
everywhere else that this musichad brought everybody together.
Cause it was, it was black inthe inception, the original, um,
you know, the rhythm side of itfor sure, you know?
I think that the earliest rockand roll records, um, it's hard
(19:20):
to tell which one, you know,there's a debate about all that
stuff.
I mean, Hank Williams is on oneside and he's got, um, moving
on over.
It's pretty good rock trackright there.
1947.
And you got like train kept aroll on recording Cincinnati
King records.
Um, you got, you know, otherrecords that happened maybe
around 1950 that people say thatabout.
So, I mean, it's kind ofhappened in that timeframe, but
(19:40):
society wasn't there yet.
You know what I mean?
These, this music was, it was aleader.
And I, and I think when you sawthe role Rolling Stones come to
America in the mid-60s.
They go straight to ChessRecords, and they record where
Muddy Waters recorded and AlanWolfe, and they give a lot of
props to those artists.
So that was kind of thebeginning of a push-up into
preeminence in the whiteviewership space, how great
(20:03):
those artists were.
And then it's in mydocumentary.
Mike Bloomfield says to BillGraham, why don't you book in
B.B.
King and Albert King and BuddyGuy as opening acts for these
rock artists when you play themat the Fillmore?
And then that really started tocement the fact that this music
has a history, you know, we'replaying cover songs of Hoochie
Coochie Man or whatever.
Here's the guy who really wrotethat or whatever, you know.
So I think that was a turningpoint really probably was back
(20:26):
then.
And I think ever since then,it's become obvious if you were
a student of rock, if you weregoing to really play it, you're
going to have to get the blueschops down.
Dr. Shay (20:35):
And as you work on your documentary and continue
with the podcast, what storieshave stood out to you as
examples of music being bringingpeople together?
Ric Stewart (20:47):
Uh, well, maybe my last interview series, I had
Bobby Rush in that one too.
And he was talking about how hewent to China and he, you know,
he convinced him that, youknow, he's a great entertainer.
He's got these peopleentertained.
He will play the same building,which was like a stadium
tomorrow.
And they're going to give himlike a dollar on every, he made
a lot of money on that show.
But, um, I think in terms of,um, yeah, bringing folks
(21:09):
together, you know, I look backat the, the artists list, um,
that I've been able tointerview, um, you know, some of
them just kind of, I think it'srelating stories and kind of
being, I have a transparentshowcase.
They have something to say,we're going to get together and
they're going to be able to bethat.
And I think that that, um, justsort of, you know, plays it
(21:32):
out.
Dr. Shay (21:34):
Soul
Ric Stewart (21:35):
country could be, like I said, on the inside, you
know, just turning it the insideout.
Dr. Shay (21:40):
I love that.
Well, Rick, this has been anamazing conversation.
I've already learned so muchfrom you.
Um, and I'm I'm hoping that ourlisteners can learn even more.
So can you tell them where tofollow you and your work?
Ric Stewart (21:54):
Yeah, I keep everything pretty much navigable
from soulcountry.com, spelledlike it sounds.
And then we have a lot of thefeatures on the, if you get to
the YouTube channel, it's gotabout 45 exclusive videos and
trailers for some of the longerpieces.
And the documentary is calledBlues Rock Hits Soul Country,
(22:14):
available, plays right on thehomepage and on the origin tab.
I refer to it as my originstory because it goes back about
30 years and covers interviewswith...
With long-gone legends likeAlan Toussaint, Earl King, and
Doc Watson, and Tony Jo White,like I mentioned, John Oates is
in there.
There's a lot of folks that arepart of that New Orleans scene,
(22:35):
and I think that was theoriginal melting pot of the
sound.
So that kind of, I guess, isthe answer.
SoulCountry.com.
All right, so I wanted to givea final word.
You know, James Brown, youknow, probably was the most
influential musician of the 20thcentury by a lot of accounts.
And he always had a big countryaspect to what he was doing.
(22:56):
And in 1979, he fulfilled alifelong ambition by coming to
Nashville and playing the GrandOle Opry.
And he did play some HankWilliams covers and everything.
And he said at the time, hisquote was, country's just white
man's blues.
You know, and that it was truein the original incorporation in
the 20s, people were drawingall this influence off black
(23:17):
performers.
They were creating somethingnew and different and that
became very interesting to blackperformers too.
And so we didn't really getinto DeFord Bailey and the
D'Opry in the earlier years andCharlie Pride became a big flag
bearer for that.
And then now Darius Ruckerreally, you know, inhabits that
space pretty full time.
But he's not alone and it is abig thing.
And if you look at MuscleShoals and Stax and the, you
(23:39):
know, outside of Nashville sortof country rhythm blues hybrids,
you know, and Malico recordsand there's a lot of great stuff
that's out there that doesn'tfit a genre and you know people
have that problem with themarketing in the industry
doesn't mean they're not thebest artists around so
Dr. Shay (23:56):
Thanks, Rick.
So today's conversation withRick reminds us that music is
not just entertainment.
It's a reflection of who weare, where we come from, and
where we're going.
Soul country isn't just agenre.
It's a reclaiming of space anda way to honor history while
building new bridges ofunderstanding.
Whether it's playlists, hisdocumentary, or his podcast,
(24:19):
Rick is showing us howstorytelling through song can
challenge assumptions, celebrateshared humanity, and create
space for conversations that wedidn't know we needed.
As always, thank you forjoining me in the Resolution
Room.
If this conversation moved you,challenged you, or gave you
something to carry forward,consider supporting the show.
(24:41):
You can explore our wearablewisdom collection in our Mind
Shop, where each piece isdesigned to spark reflection and
dialogue.
You can also join our growingcommunity for behind-the-scenes
conversations, resources, andsupport of your own journey
through tension andtransformation.
just want to say thank you in asimple way.
(25:02):
You can always buy me a coffee.
Every gesture helps keep thespace going.
All the links are in the shownotes.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
that's what will carry youforward.
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