June 3, 2025 • 36 mins
In this conversation, Dr. Nashay Lowe and Jiu-Jitsu instructor Jeremy Akin explore the deeper philosophy of Jiu-Jitsu, emphasizing its roots in humility, control, and peaceful self-protection. They discuss how Jiu-Jitsu teaches valuable life lessons about conflict resolution, the nature of power, and the importance of community. Jeremy shares personal anecdotes and insights on how the practice fosters emotional discipline, empathy, and personal growth, ultimately revealing that true strength lies in understanding and redirecting energy rather than resorting to aggression.
Key Takeaways
- Real strength lies in staying grounded and composed.
- Jiu-Jitsu emphasizes peaceful self-protection over aggression.
- Strength isn't about domination; winning doesn't require destruction.
- The basis of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is leverage and control.
- Jiu-Jitsu can be trained at high intensity with low injury risk.
- Humility is a key lesson learned through Jiu-Jitsu.
- Training exposes individuals to diverse perspectives and backgrounds.
- The struggle in training fosters gentleness and empathy.
- Submission teaches deeper lessons about power and surrender.
- Overcoming ego is liberating and essential for personal growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Shay (00:01):
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
(00:22):
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Ne'Shea Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
We often think about conflictas something loud, aggressive,
(00:42):
or dangerous, but jiu-jitsureminds us that real strength
lies in staying grounded,remaining composed under
pressure, and choosing responseover reaction.
In this episode, I sit downwith the seasoned jiu-jitsu
instructor, Jeremy Atkin, toexplore the deeper philosophy
behind the quote-unquote gentleart.
So far from being a sport ofaggression, jiu-jitsu was
(01:05):
designed as a method of peacefulself-protection, emphasizing
redirection, leverage, and calmover brute force.
We will discuss how thismartial art reflects broader
truth about human conflict, thatstrength isn't domination, and
winning doesn't requiredestruction.
From the mat to everyday life,this conversation reveals how
physical practice can mirroremotional wisdom and what it
(01:27):
really means to choose peacewithout abandoning power.
So Jeremy, if you could startby introducing yourself and let
the people know who you are andwhat you do.
Jeremy Akin (01:36):
So I'm a jiu-jitsu instructor.
I've been training for, Iguess, like 25 years in
jiu-jitsu.
I did other martial arts beforethat, Muay Thai, kickboxing,
judo, Japanese jiu-jitsu.
And I run a gym in Nashville,Tennessee, and we've got five
(01:56):
locations.
Dr. Shay (01:57):
Where are the locations?
Jeremy Akin (02:00):
We've got downtown Nashville.
We've got Hendersonville.
Lebanon, Tennessee, Brentwood,Tennessee, and Columbia,
Tennessee.
Dr. Shay (02:07):
Amazing.
So to start off, jiu-jitsu isoften, I think, misunderstood as
a combat sport, but its originsare actually rooted in
gentleness and control.
So can you tell us a little bitabout where this discipline
came from and the philosophybehind it?
Jeremy Akin (02:23):
Sure.
I guess, first of all, beforewe get into that, I'll just kind
of differentiate betweenJapanese jiu-jitsu, which would
be kind of the original formmartial art.
Then that went to judo.
And then from judo, some of theJapanese judoka ended up in
Brazil and teaching the Graciefamily.
And that's where we kind ofhave, I guess most people call
(02:45):
it Brazilian jujitsu now.
so the origins of japanesejiu-jitsu um are a little
different in the sense that itwas from like warring periods in
japan so it was basicallyunarmed combat where it was
there was striking like punchingkicking um there's throws there
was joint locks um and thejapanese jiu-jitsu comprises of
(03:09):
a lot of different lineages andschools of jiu-jitsu and then
Kano created judo.
And basically what he did washe took all the striking out and
left the throws and the jointlocks and chokes and basically
the newaza or the groundtechniques.
And his idea was he wanted tocreate a martial art for like a
modern era of Japan that wasmore peaceful and something that
(03:33):
could be trained, you know,wide open 100% without people
risking injury.
And then when judo came intoBrazil, the Gracie family was a
Scottish family.
had kind of settled in brazilum they're you know fairly
fairly well off and they helpedsome of the japanese immigrants
kind of come in and help themwith jobs and all that and in
(03:53):
exchange um maeda the judokataught the gracie family what he
knew of judo and his version ofjudo was part of Kosen Judo and
it gets really nerdy from therewith the different schools and
lineage and all that.
The idea of most combativemartial arts, there's two types.
(04:15):
There's hard styles and softstyles.
You have hard styles orpunching, kicking, elbows,
headbutts, the the top of theviolence scale and then you have
grappling arts or soft artswhere we use mechanical
compliance over blunt forcetrauma and pain compliance so
when they say gentle um thecharacter for jew um it's
(04:40):
translated to gentle but itmeans more like pliable or like
something that can be malleableand giving and kind of like
receiving and taking that kindof thing.
Um, and jitsu means techniquesor like methods of when you see
a martial art with Po like P Oor D O, usually there's like a
way, like the way of, um, andthat would incorporate more like
(05:03):
philosophy.
And so like judo has aphilosophy, you know, attached
to it.
Whereas jitsu arts likeKenjutsu, jujitsu, all that are
mostly the physical side.
So, um, that's kind of the, thehistory of it is like in a, in
a very, very short amount oftime.
Um, the, really the, the basisof Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is, you
(05:25):
know, the use of takedowns,clenching, closing distance as a
way to control someone,eventually getting them to quit,
you know?
So we use submissions, um,submission could be, they quit
cause they can't get out andthey're tired.
It could be, they know they're,they can't win.
So they stop, um, or all theway up to joint locks and choke
(05:46):
holds and stuff like that.
So that's kind of the gist ofit.
Dr. Shay (05:50):
Wow.
And so thinking about you beingwell-versed in different types
of martial arts, how doesjiu-jitsu define power
differently than other formsthat you've trained?
Jeremy Akin (06:02):
I think there's the literal technical ways, which
is leverage.
So fulcrum, lever force isbasically what jiu-jitsu is
based off of and weightdistribution and things like
that that are very tangible thatcan be demonstrated without
hurting someone.
So if you walk into a karateschool or a boxing gym and
(06:25):
you're like, I want to see ifthis works, that's not going to
be a fun experience because it'sgoing to hurt.
Whereas jiu-jitsu, you can takesomeone that's never done it
before They can come at you ashard as they want to, and you
can control them in a way thatdoesn't hurt them at all.
Obviously, they'reuncomfortable because they're
tired and frustrated.
I think when you think ofconflict and control and these
(06:49):
domination things, how are yougoing about controlling them
matters a lot.
Jiu-jitsu can be trained at100% intensity with very low
risk of injury.
Um, so I think that's, that'sprobably the, one of the biggest
differentiating factors betweenjujitsu and most martial arts.
Dr. Shay (07:07):
Yeah.
So, I mean, there's somethingreally powerful about a
discipline that teaches peoplehow to not react with force
first.
Right.
So, um, you know, I think aboutwhen people see karate movies
or all these different types ofmartial arts and they just want
to walk into there and say, Hey,teach me how to break a board
with my head or something likethat.
And the instructor's alwayslike, well, first we have to
(07:27):
learn patience and discipline,all these things, right?
So what lessons does jiu-jitsuoffer about conflict off of the
mat?
Jeremy Akin (07:36):
I think the first lesson is humility.
And it's not a false humility.
It's like you get an arrogantguy who's been good at
everything his whole life, youknow, comes in here as a star
athlete, you know, leaves hismansion, kisses his supermodel
wife, gets out of his Ferrari,takes off his designer suit, and
(07:57):
a 16-year-old kid folds him up.
And it's like the humility ofthat, it changes you, because
it's not a theoretical thing.
It's like you felt it.
And I think because of that, itchanges the way you look at
conflict in general, because yourealize, one, that some of the
constructs that maybe youthought were put you ahead in
(08:18):
certain situations.
Maybe it's not the same.
You also, I think you learnbecause there's so many
different demographics injujitsu.
You've got CEOs, you've got 17year old that works at
Chick-fil-A, you've got a mom ofthree, and you've got all these
different people interacting.
(08:39):
So you learn to deal withdifferent kinds of people.
So your echo chamber is muchlarger.
And you're exposed to ideasthat maybe you weren't exposed
to.
And you lose to those people.
And it's like you share thisstruggle with each other.
So I think in a lot of ways, itkind of humbles you.
(09:00):
And it makes you realize thatmaybe even if you think you're
right about something or youfeel a certain way, you realize
there's so many otherviewpoints.
And you're so close to thosepeople because you train
together every day.
You respect them to a levelthat maybe...
if you didn't have that, maybeyou would never listen to that
person's viewpoint.
So I think humility is probablythe biggest thing, you know?
(09:23):
And secondly, I would say, um,jujitsu is physically very
uncomfortable.
Like when you lose, you know,you've got some 200 pound guy
like pinning you down and tryingto choke you.
Um, but you still have toproblem solve in those
conditions.
And you're at a fatigue levelthat most people probably
haven't experienced when likerunning fatigue is up to you.
(09:44):
How hard, Do you want to stop?
Do you want to keep going?
Do you want to, you know, youget on the treadmill and you can
push yourself, but you alwayshave control of it.
But in a five minute round withsomeone, you're going to hit
those moments where you're like,I don't know that I can keep
doing this.
Meanwhile, you're still havingto think technically, you're
still having to problem solveand it's like solving very
complex problems and puzzleswhile being focused.
(10:06):
frustrated your ego is gettingdestroyed your your coach is
yelling at you to do somethingyou're like i can't do it i'm
too tired everyone's watchingand you know they're we're all
sharing that together so yeah ithink the problem solving under
stress and then humility wouldbe probably the two biggest
things for sure
Dr. Shay (10:25):
i love that i love that and on a side note i have a
Jeremy Akin (10:30):
a
Dr. Shay (10:30):
personal like addiction right now to watching
like those YouTube clips of likethe bodybuilders who think
they're super strong and try tochallenge like a jujitsu master.
I'm like,
Jeremy Akin (10:38):
yeah,
Dr. Shay (10:40):
it's very satisfying.
Jeremy Akin (10:42):
It is very satisfying for sure.
Dr. Shay (10:44):
So given those sort of lessons you just discussed,
problem solving and humility,can you think of a moment when
you avoided maybe a real lifeconfrontation because of what
you learned through training?
Jeremy Akin (10:56):
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Shay (10:57):
Yeah.
Jeremy Akin (10:59):
So when I was younger, I'm a very intense
person, just still.
Even as an old guy, I'm stillpretty intense.
And when I was younger, I wasprobably a little too intense.
And I think early on beforejujitsu, I was quick to react,
maybe even violently.
Because I was kickboxing, andthat is pretty violent.
(11:21):
That is how you solve problems.
So when I came into jujitsu...
I didn't realize it washappening, but being humbled
that way.
And I was 25, so I was a goodathlete, you know, and I didn't
have the excuses, you know,like, oh, if I was just, you
know, younger.
So I think there's so many.
(11:42):
One I can think of, I was at arestaurant.
We were after training and itwas like a bar restaurant.
And this guy was walking fromtable to table, kind of totally
harassing people.
You know, and he was, he'd comeover and he came over to our
table and was like, oh, why areyou, why you got so sweaty?
(12:02):
And then we're like, oh,jujitsu.
And he's like, oh, you know, isit, you're like rolling around
the ground with a bunch of guysand just making a bunch, like
whatever, you know?
And we're like exhausted.
We're like, dude, we're herefor some wings and just to
relax, like relax, you know?
And then I watched him go fromtable to table harassing people.
And then I noticed what he wasdoing was he was putting his
drinks on those tables and So hewould come over and act like
(12:25):
they was friends and go to thebar.
Like, Hey, yeah, just put my,my drink on that time.
And you know, we went there alot.
So I knew, you know, I knew theservers and bartenders and
everything.
And, and then he went over tothis one table, um, full, mostly
women.
And I could see howuncomfortable they were when the
guy was kind of rough and helooked like the kind of guy that
(12:47):
was there for trouble.
So I got frustrated and I waslike, well, let me, let me go
talk to him.
And I saw him going to thebathroom.
And I was like, okay, well,this will be a quiet time to
talk.
And I went in there, and Iremember he immediately puffed
up.
And he's like, man, I don'tcare.
(13:07):
I've had my butt whoopedbefore.
And I'm like, all right.
And we go to this whole thing.
And I remember I felt so sorryfor him.
I wasn't even angry.
And I remember I grabbed himand turned him around.
I was like, we're both standingin front of the mirror.
And I was like, it's going tobe okay.
And he starts crying.
I mean, he just loses it.
(13:29):
And he's like, man, I justmoved here from Florida.
I don't know anybody.
I'm just really drunk.
This is not who I am.
And I was like, it's okay, man.
So I gave him a hug and wewalked out.
The manager's like, you got togo.
And I was like, hang on.
He wants to say something.
He's like, I'm so sorry.
And so then he goes, I walkedinto every table and he
(13:49):
apologized and all that stuff.
But my instinct was to go back.
grab this dude and get him outof there.
But I think because I felt solittle threat from him
physically that I didn't, therewas no primitive kind of old
brain telling me to fight.
There was just like this, themodern brain trying to problem
(14:11):
solve and realizing this guy washarmless.
And it was, it was one of thosethings.
I tell that story a lot because10 years ago, that probably
would have gone differently.
It could have easily, and Icould have probably justified
that to myself that Oh, it'sprotecting people.
But I think it's moments likethat where I feel pity when
people are that upset now.
I feel bad for them, even ifit's at me, even if they hate
(14:34):
me.
And like I said earlier, thephysical gentle is the
mechanical compliance.
I'd say the philosophicalgentle part of jujitsu is you
know what actual fighting feelslike and you know how bad it
hurts and you know the realitiesof it.
And you also know that it canbe decided in a moment.
(14:55):
Even as a black belt, I couldslip and fall and hit my head on
the curb.
So because of all of that, thelast thing you ever want to do
is really fight.
So it creates this internal...
It heightens your empathy.
And it's like you realize thatthey're angry, but that's just
an insecurity.
(15:15):
It's a fear that they'reexperiencing.
And I think if you're alsoinsecure...
it's hard to, it's hard to evenrealize that they're just
acting out like a kid would, youknow?
So I think that's, that'sprobably the thing.
And the downside is you onlyget that through like actual
hard training.
Okay.
(15:36):
You know, and, and jujitsu hastaken this turn recently where
there's like corporate jujitsumodels that have become very not
hard and they're selling beltsand it's kind of becoming
commercial.
It, So the downside is thosepeople will probably never get
(15:57):
that gentle part because it'sbeen watered down to a point
where they're not going toexperience the struggle that
actually makes you gentle.
And of course, that's a wholeother business talk.
Dr. Shay (16:10):
I love the struggle that makes you gentle.
I love that.
And so a lot of what you'retalking about, too, You know,
this is not just a male centeredthing, of course, but I know
ego plays a lot into, you know,fighting in general, how people
interact.
And so I'm thinking about like,you know, jujitsu brings people
(16:32):
face to face with the ground,like literally.
I'm wondering what you've seen,like a story of like a student
or maybe someone's likeevolution from like starting
training with you until overtime, you've just seen this
transformation in them.
Jeremy Akin (16:47):
Yeah, a lot.
I mean, honestly, all, all ofthe people that make it to, you
know, purple, brown and blackbelt, it's in, it's crazy.
You'll see, you'll see guysthat come in.
Like I said, that everythinghas been there.
Every, they check all thelists, like they're raised in
the right economic situation.
They had everything.
(17:08):
And then most of the time theycome in, they experienced
struggle and they quit.
Right.
But the people who stay are,watching how they evolve and we
and we do a thing with our gymswhere when someone gets promoted
a purple brown or black beltthey give a speech and the
speech is answering threequestions one is why jujitsu
(17:30):
like why did i get into it rightum two is what have i learned
about myself and then three islike what advice would i give my
white belt self like if i couldgo back in time And those three
questions have, I mean, there'sbeen some really like
emotional, I just break downspeeches.
It's been amazing.
But you see people on two ends,like one, the guy comes in with
(17:53):
an ego and then gets humbledand becomes a better person.
And then you see people withlike no confidence at all who
interact in any situation.
So I think it's, if you do itand you're willing to struggle,
it'll give you what you need,you know, regardless of what
that is.
Dr. Shay (18:11):
That's amazing.
And I'm going to say the badword in the room, the S word,
submission.
So how does being submitted orsubmitting teach something
deeper about power andsurrender?
Jeremy Akin (18:28):
So I think in a couple of ways.
One, like if somebody, likewhen I kickboxed and someone
knocks you out, you didn'treally quit.
like they just hit a buttonwhen you're out and you wake up
and most of the time you don'teven know you're knocked out
you're like i'm fine likestumbling around you know and so
you didn't really admit thatyou lost and a lot of a lot of
(18:51):
things it's like in basketballlike oh well if you'd have
passed me the ball we'd have wonthe in team sports there's
always this out oh well it's thecoach it's my teammate or
whatever but in in jiu-jitsu andwrestling and i want to include
wrestling with jiu-jitsubecause it doesn't get talked
about a lot as a martial art, asa sport, but it instills a lot
(19:12):
of the same things.
And I think it's probably evenharder than jujitsu at a high
level.
Like college wrestlers gothrough some, some like true
show.
It's a rough sport, but it'sthe same thing.
It's, it's you and it's, youget up there, you compete.
And if you lose, it's on youand there's no teammate to
blame.
It's your preparation, yourexecution.
(19:33):
Um, So I think that's, that'ssomething that like builds,
build the confidence inyourself.
When you get submitted, it'slike this realization that you
weren't enough in that moment.
And it's, you try as hard asyou can.
And in so many other things youlose, it's because someone
else, like I didn't get a raisebecause so-and-so it's like, in
(19:57):
reality is a lot of times youjust maybe didn't deserve it.
Maybe you just didn't work thathard.
You know what I mean?
Like my wife's a lawyer andshe, She's a partner and I see
the amount of work she does.
And people are like, man, I'ddo anything for that money.
I'm like, man, you could notsurvive her week.
Dr. Shay (20:14):
You
Jeremy Akin (20:14):
know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
You want to see work, go watchher, you know.
But it's the same thing withlike when you're in a sport and
a submission is like this momentwhere you're basically telling
them that you can't possiblywin, that you are done.
It's checkmate.
It's the end of it, you know.
And I think a lot of timespeople think of submission as
(20:37):
the actual submission hold, likean arm lock or a choke, but
it's really not.
It's you are basically askingthem to stop because they have
bested you.
And that's like a humblingthing, especially if you don't
maybe like them, or maybe onceagain, maybe in everywhere else
in life, you're up here andthey're down here and it's, it's
(20:58):
tough, you know, but I thinkit's, I was talking to, uh, one
of the younger guys that'strains here.
And I think in so many areas oflife, you, you have to submit
to something in order to getover yourself, like whether
it's, whether it's faith,whether it's love or whatever it
is.
And I think people that arerefused to do that, that's like
(21:21):
the ultimate expression of ego.
So, yeah, I mean, I thinksubmission can sound scary, you
know, like your choke holdsstuff, but yeah, I mean, I've
gotten hurt worse playingbasketball, you know, rolling my
ankle in basketball hurts worseand all that.
So, you know, I think it soundsmore like jujitsu seems more
violent.
Like, oh my God, someone'sgoing to choke you, but they're
(21:42):
not really, they're like,they're doing it, but they're
also wanting you to quit.
They're like, man, come on,just tap.
Like there's a culture injujitsu where you get mad if
people actually don't tap.
It's like, come on, man, you'redone here.
And then if they make you putmore force on it, it just feels
weird.
And wrestling doesn't havesubmissions.
(22:04):
So I think the biggestdifference between jiu-jitsu and
wrestling would be that.
But, I mean, very similar pathswhere it's like face your own
ego.
Dr. Shay (22:14):
Yeah, wow.
And so what do you wish morepeople understood about the
mindset behind the sport?
Jeremy Akin (22:23):
Yeah.
I wish more people understoodhow fragile their egos really
are.
You know, I wish peopleunderstood that one of the most
freeing, liberating things inthe world is getting over that,
you know, and we spend so muchof our time hiding from it, you
know, it's like, and we all do.
(22:43):
I mean, you know, it's, I mean,I did for years, even in
jujitsu.
I mean, it took me years tobreak.
I mean, I was stubborn.
But yeah, I mean, it's, like Isaid, you have to give in at
some point and realize you don'tknow everything, you know.
And I think that's one thing Iwish people knew about
(23:04):
themselves so they would searchsomething out, whether it's
jujitsu or not.
As far as things to know aboutjujitsu, probably some of the
best friends you'll ever have inyour life come from that.
And it's really, it sounds, andmaybe, maybe we cut this out.
I don't know how this is goingto sound, but there's a, there's
(23:25):
a little bit of trauma bondingthat happens because you're, you
are going through some really,really hard times together.
You're, I mean, you're, you'relosing, you're, you're hitting
your complete fatigue.
You're trying as hard as youcan.
And that other person is justbetter than you.
You come back the next day andface that.
There's a lot of, a lot oflong, quiet rides home after
(23:46):
training, you know?
Yeah.
And then you show back up.
And I think the bonds you buildthrough seeing that resilience
in each other.
And it's like, as much as Ilove my friends, I still want to
beat them.
And that's okay.
I mean, it's like, because if Iwin, I'm going to be happy.
If they win, after a while,I'll be happy for them too.
(24:07):
But I feel like a lot of, youknow, there's a bit of a zero
sum in the moment.
But afterwards, there's like asense of like, you're happy for
your friends, even if it's atyour expense.
And I think the bonds and therelationships are incredible.
Every friend I've got at thispoint in my life came from
jujitsu other than my wife.
Dr. Shay (24:29):
Wow.
Has she done any training?
Jeremy Akin (24:33):
We train privately.
She's a bit of a germaphobe.
So she's like, oh my God,there's people's feet.
Dr. Shay (24:43):
Honestly, that is...
That is so funny.
That's kind of my reservationtoo.
So many times I thought aboutit.
I was like, oh, I might want totry a class, but like, I don't
want everyone touching me.
I
Jeremy Akin (24:55):
get it.
It's really weird.
You know how like, if you evergo to a place and it smells but
then an hour later you can'tsmell it anymore it's kind of
like that it's like at firstyou're like oh god but then
after a while you're like allsweaty and you just forget about
it but if you walk in in themiddle of it it's disgusting
Dr. Shay (25:14):
oh my
Jeremy Akin (25:15):
god
Dr. Shay (25:18):
okay so um from what i've been learning about the
sport um one of my favoritelessons from jujitsu is that
just because you can win withforce doesn't mean you should so
that principle alone feels likea metaphor for leadership
relationships and just dailylife so how do you help your
students um develop restraintand wisdom alongside the skill
(25:40):
because i assume there's justsome people who again just want
to come in and learn how to dothe technical skill so how do
you how do you do that
Jeremy Akin (25:48):
um that's where the community is is really
important like there's womenthat train i mean one of my main
athletes i work with is a 140pounds, 22, 23 year old, you
know, female and I'm 190 pounds.
So it's like, if you can'ttrain with someone smaller than
(26:11):
you, someone that maybe it's notphysically as strong or
whatever, then that's pure, pureego.
Oh, it's like, oh, I can win.
So I'm going to, and you know,I think a lot of it is just,
there's moments where like a newperson comes in and they're you
want another training partner.
You want more people in yourgroup of friends because you
(26:31):
know how positive it is for you.
So you want them to come in andenjoy it.
So when you're training withthem, you let them have success
and you like kind of encouragethem.
And through doing that, you arekind of, you're flexing that
muscle of like, even though youabsolutely can control that or
win that game or whatever we'redoing at the time, You're
(26:52):
understanding there's maybe agreater good in there where
you're like, maybe this personneeds this win.
You learn to almost ease peoplein, and everyone does.
If the grossness wasn'tinvolved, if you started
training, and in a year afteryou've done that and somebody
(27:12):
walks in the door, you're goingto remember what it felt like.
And you're going to want themto stay and you're going to make
it a little easier on them.
And so I think a lot of, maybethat's one of the misconceptions
is that people are going towalk in and then everyone's
going to try to beat them up.
And really, I mean, jujitsukind of, there's like a joke
(27:32):
where jujitsu is kind of like acult.
I mean, you can't have culturewithout cult, right?
But it's like...
It is in a way like this groupthat wants to grow because you
understand how powerful it is.
So you know that if you justthrottle someone that walks
through the door, they're goingto quit.
And everyone knows that.
And there's also like aself-regulating filtering system
(27:57):
in jujitsu where people thatdon't get that don't last.
Whether it's maybe everyonesees that, so the people that
are bigger and stronger thanthem maybe let them feel what it
feels like, or whether it'sjust one of those talks where, I
mean, I've, I've asked peopleto leave my gym many times over
the years.
So they just don't reallyunderstand what the point of it
(28:19):
is, you know?
And, and that's fine.
And there's, there's a team injujitsu that their marketing
slogan is jujitsu is foreveryone.
And it's not, it's really not.
I mean, it's not easy.
It's, it's not fun.
If you, if you don't like tostruggle, it's not fun.
Um, but the people that it isfor are maybe not the people
(28:40):
you'd think.
So I think it's, it's likeanything.
It's hard.
I mean, it's, I guess intheory, everyone can do it, but
it's not gonna, gonna be theright path for everyone.
Dr. Shay (28:51):
So building on that, cause you brought up an
interesting point that it's notfor everyone.
You've had to even ask peopleto leave.
So what is like emotionaldiscipline look like in your
studio?
Jeremy Akin (29:02):
I think it, Usually the way the way when I'm
watching people interact, youknow, I'm looking for for
empathy.
You know, I'm looking for howdo they treat the people on
their team?
You know, then when I get intothe micro, it's like, how do
they handle loss?
You know, how do they handlestruggle?
(29:24):
Because a lot of people andit's normal early on to like,
make excuses.
That's the first thing everyonedoes.
Man, I'm so tired.
I'm so out of shape.
I got to get back in shape.
It's like, that's not why youlost, but that's fine.
You know?
But you know, so I'm emotionalgrowth in jujitsu is typically
like when someone loses and it'slike, man, I've got to figure
(29:45):
out how to solve that problembetter.
And that's, but that alsoscales everywhere.
You know what I mean?
It's like you're at home andyou and your significant other
arguing and Maybe, maybe youshare that responsibility and
this is like a problem toovercome.
It's not this emotional, it'snot a battle.
We're not trying to be right.
It's like, how do you solve theproblem?
(30:07):
So, you know, I think when Isee my students or my training
partners be able to step backand problem solve, even no
matter how much invested effortthere is in that moment.
You know, I think that's,that's one of the things I'm
looking for as a professor isthat, And there's always, I
mean, there's going to befrustration.
There's going to be like peoplewho get mad and there's going
(30:30):
to be little hiccups wherepeople will just like, you know,
slap the mat.
And then I'll talk to him andbe like, you got to relax, man.
You know, it's like, it's notthat serious.
You know, your kids still loveyou.
Just relax.
It's not that big a deal, youknow?
But yeah.
Dr. Shay (30:46):
That's funny.
Okay.
So gosh, this has been anamazing conversation.
For someone listening who's ina tough season, who feels like
every interaction in any aspectof their life is a power
struggle, what wisdom fromjiu-jitsu would you offer them?
Jeremy Akin (31:04):
I think if you feel like you don't have power or
control in your own life, maybenot control, but if you don't
have a say in your own life, Ithink you start internal and you
start with the way you'relooking at problems.
When I was...
In my mid-20s, I was goingthrough a really tough time.
(31:27):
I was moving.
I had a young baby.
My life, I'd failed ateverything.
I remember I grew up doing alot of visual art.
That was my thing when I was akid.
I was looking at this color andI was like, man, this is the
cheesiest story.
But it's like, there's thisflower outside my window and I
(31:48):
was in a pretty dark depressionat the time.
And it was like bright red.
And I remember thinking like, Iwonder what that red looks like
to other people, right?
Because colors is really justyour interpretation of a
texture, right?
So, and then I was like, man,what an odd thing that we agree
this is red, but we all see itdifferently, right?
So that kind of, I startedscaling that to everything.
(32:11):
So I I realized that like myperception of what was happening
to me was where my control ofmy, my life was.
So my dad was always likereally big on, you know, you
make your mind up to be happy ornot, but it's up to you.
Like you can be happy in badsituations or miserable and good
ones, you know?
So I think like when I cameinto Juvia too, I kind of had
(32:34):
that mindset already of I it'sup to me how I perceive the
stimulus.
It's not the stimulus itself.
Maybe it's not the problemalways.
Right.
Um, And then I think theconfidence of jujitsu is what
allows you to kind of like belike, okay, maybe I suck at
this.
I don't have to be good ateverything, right?
Like I play guitar.
(32:55):
I'm not a very good guitarplayer and I've been playing
since I was 11 and that's okay.
You know what I mean?
And I think the more confidenceyou get it, It anything like
it, you know, like in yourcareer, the more you, you know,
gain skill and knowledge andmore confidence you get in that.
And that bleeds over, I'm sureto everything you do.
And so I think going through atough season, it's like find
(33:18):
something that you can actuallyaffect, you know, which is your
perception for me anyway, andwork on it.
And so I chose to makedecisions to, you know, be as
healthy as I could be as fit asI can.
be like, when I say I'm goingto do something, I'm going to do
it.
That kind of thing.
All those are like martialarts.
(33:39):
Those are kind of the tenantsof martial arts, like be a good
human kind of thing.
But, and with somebody, itdoesn't have the vehicle for
that.
I think jujitsu is an excellentone.
I mean, there's, there's tonsof them, right?
I'm not seeing friends joinCrossFit gyms and find that same
thing.
So yeah, but I think forsomething to bring you out of
(33:59):
that, it has to show you thetruth of your, you have to see
your own truth.
You have to see that you areflawed too.
And I think there's, it's,there's no way to have a victim
mindset in Jiu Jitsu and thenstay in it.
Cause that mindset will, willmake you leave, you know?
And so, yeah, I think for, forJiu Jitsu, that's always, you
(34:22):
know, that's my vehicle.
So I always encourage people todo that, but like I said, it's
not for everyone.
Um, But yeah, I don't know ifthat answers the question.
Dr. Shay (34:30):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So before I let you go, Jeremy,can you let the audience know
how to follow you and your work?
If you have any socials,website, your studio name again?
Yeah.
Jeremy Akin (34:42):
So the name of our gems and our association is
Perfectus.
It's Latin for progress oradvancement.
We've got...
We've got a shop.
So perfectus.shop where we sellgear.
We've got perfectushq.com iswhere all the gym websites are.
And, you know, we do like freedrop-ins if anybody's curious
(35:04):
about jujitsu and they want toexperience it, come in.
You can watch as many classesas you want.
You can jump in and try it out,you know?
Yeah.
I
Dr. Shay (35:14):
love
Jeremy Akin (35:15):
it.
Dr. Shay (35:16):
Well, I want to thank you so much for your time.
As we wrap up today'sconversation, I hope you're
walking away with a newperspective on conflict, not
just as something to win oravoid, but as something to
engage with differently.
Jiu-Jitsu teaches us thatstrength isn't always about
force.
It's about understandingenergy, using leverage, and
staying grounded when things gettense.
(35:37):
The same is true in ourrelationships at work and within
ourselves.
When we stop meeting resistancewith more resistance, we create
space for solutions that thatdon't escalate, but evolve.
Whether it's a disagreementwith a colleague, a tense family
moment, or even an internalstruggle, we can ask, how can I
redirect this energy instead ofpushing back?
Where can I stay flexiblewithout losing my footing?
(35:59):
And that's the quiet power ofjujitsu.
And it reminds us thatsometimes the most effective way
to resolve conflict is not tofight harder, but to move
smarter.
As always, thank you forjoining me today in the
Resolution Room.
I'm grateful you're here doingthis work alongside me.
If this episode spoke to you,I'd love for you to please
share.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
(36:22):
that's what will carry youforward.
Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn
(00:22):
tension into transformationthrough clarity, connection, and
consistency.
I'm your host, Dr.
Ne'Shea Lowe, and this is aspace where we explore what's
really underneath the momentsthat challenge us and how they
can lead to something morehonest, more human, and more
whole.
So let's get into it.
We often think about conflictas something loud, aggressive,
(00:42):
or dangerous, but jiu-jitsureminds us that real strength
lies in staying grounded,remaining composed under
pressure, and choosing responseover reaction.
In this episode, I sit downwith the seasoned jiu-jitsu
instructor, Jeremy Atkin, toexplore the deeper philosophy
behind the quote-unquote gentleart.
So far from being a sport ofaggression, jiu-jitsu was
(01:05):
designed as a method of peacefulself-protection, emphasizing
redirection, leverage, and calmover brute force.
We will discuss how thismartial art reflects broader
truth about human conflict, thatstrength isn't domination, and
winning doesn't requiredestruction.
From the mat to everyday life,this conversation reveals how
physical practice can mirroremotional wisdom and what it
(01:27):
really means to choose peacewithout abandoning power.
So Jeremy, if you could startby introducing yourself and let
the people know who you are andwhat you do.
Jeremy Akin (01:36):
So I'm a jiu-jitsu instructor.
I've been training for, Iguess, like 25 years in
jiu-jitsu.
I did other martial arts beforethat, Muay Thai, kickboxing,
judo, Japanese jiu-jitsu.
And I run a gym in Nashville,Tennessee, and we've got five
(01:56):
locations.
Dr. Shay (01:57):
Where are the locations?
Jeremy Akin (02:00):
We've got downtown Nashville.
We've got Hendersonville.
Lebanon, Tennessee, Brentwood,Tennessee, and Columbia,
Tennessee.
Dr. Shay (02:07):
Amazing.
So to start off, jiu-jitsu isoften, I think, misunderstood as
a combat sport, but its originsare actually rooted in
gentleness and control.
So can you tell us a little bitabout where this discipline
came from and the philosophybehind it?
Jeremy Akin (02:23):
Sure.
I guess, first of all, beforewe get into that, I'll just kind
of differentiate betweenJapanese jiu-jitsu, which would
be kind of the original formmartial art.
Then that went to judo.
And then from judo, some of theJapanese judoka ended up in
Brazil and teaching the Graciefamily.
And that's where we kind ofhave, I guess most people call
(02:45):
it Brazilian jujitsu now.
so the origins of japanesejiu-jitsu um are a little
different in the sense that itwas from like warring periods in
japan so it was basicallyunarmed combat where it was
there was striking like punchingkicking um there's throws there
was joint locks um and thejapanese jiu-jitsu comprises of
(03:09):
a lot of different lineages andschools of jiu-jitsu and then
Kano created judo.
And basically what he did washe took all the striking out and
left the throws and the jointlocks and chokes and basically
the newaza or the groundtechniques.
And his idea was he wanted tocreate a martial art for like a
modern era of Japan that wasmore peaceful and something that
(03:33):
could be trained, you know,wide open 100% without people
risking injury.
And then when judo came intoBrazil, the Gracie family was a
Scottish family.
had kind of settled in brazilum they're you know fairly
fairly well off and they helpedsome of the japanese immigrants
kind of come in and help themwith jobs and all that and in
(03:53):
exchange um maeda the judokataught the gracie family what he
knew of judo and his version ofjudo was part of Kosen Judo and
it gets really nerdy from therewith the different schools and
lineage and all that.
The idea of most combativemartial arts, there's two types.
(04:15):
There's hard styles and softstyles.
You have hard styles orpunching, kicking, elbows,
headbutts, the the top of theviolence scale and then you have
grappling arts or soft artswhere we use mechanical
compliance over blunt forcetrauma and pain compliance so
when they say gentle um thecharacter for jew um it's
(04:40):
translated to gentle but itmeans more like pliable or like
something that can be malleableand giving and kind of like
receiving and taking that kindof thing.
Um, and jitsu means techniquesor like methods of when you see
a martial art with Po like P Oor D O, usually there's like a
way, like the way of, um, andthat would incorporate more like
(05:03):
philosophy.
And so like judo has aphilosophy, you know, attached
to it.
Whereas jitsu arts likeKenjutsu, jujitsu, all that are
mostly the physical side.
So, um, that's kind of the, thehistory of it is like in a, in
a very, very short amount oftime.
Um, the, really the, the basisof Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is, you
(05:25):
know, the use of takedowns,clenching, closing distance as a
way to control someone,eventually getting them to quit,
you know?
So we use submissions, um,submission could be, they quit
cause they can't get out andthey're tired.
It could be, they know they're,they can't win.
So they stop, um, or all theway up to joint locks and choke
(05:46):
holds and stuff like that.
So that's kind of the gist ofit.
Dr. Shay (05:50):
Wow.
And so thinking about you beingwell-versed in different types
of martial arts, how doesjiu-jitsu define power
differently than other formsthat you've trained?
Jeremy Akin (06:02):
I think there's the literal technical ways, which
is leverage.
So fulcrum, lever force isbasically what jiu-jitsu is
based off of and weightdistribution and things like
that that are very tangible thatcan be demonstrated without
hurting someone.
So if you walk into a karateschool or a boxing gym and
(06:25):
you're like, I want to see ifthis works, that's not going to
be a fun experience because it'sgoing to hurt.
Whereas jiu-jitsu, you can takesomeone that's never done it
before They can come at you ashard as they want to, and you
can control them in a way thatdoesn't hurt them at all.
Obviously, they'reuncomfortable because they're
tired and frustrated.
I think when you think ofconflict and control and these
(06:49):
domination things, how are yougoing about controlling them
matters a lot.
Jiu-jitsu can be trained at100% intensity with very low
risk of injury.
Um, so I think that's, that'sprobably the, one of the biggest
differentiating factors betweenjujitsu and most martial arts.
Dr. Shay (07:07):
Yeah.
So, I mean, there's somethingreally powerful about a
discipline that teaches peoplehow to not react with force
first.
Right.
So, um, you know, I think aboutwhen people see karate movies
or all these different types ofmartial arts and they just want
to walk into there and say, Hey,teach me how to break a board
with my head or something likethat.
And the instructor's alwayslike, well, first we have to
(07:27):
learn patience and discipline,all these things, right?
So what lessons does jiu-jitsuoffer about conflict off of the
mat?
Jeremy Akin (07:36):
I think the first lesson is humility.
And it's not a false humility.
It's like you get an arrogantguy who's been good at
everything his whole life, youknow, comes in here as a star
athlete, you know, leaves hismansion, kisses his supermodel
wife, gets out of his Ferrari,takes off his designer suit, and
(07:57):
a 16-year-old kid folds him up.
And it's like the humility ofthat, it changes you, because
it's not a theoretical thing.
It's like you felt it.
And I think because of that, itchanges the way you look at
conflict in general, because yourealize, one, that some of the
constructs that maybe youthought were put you ahead in
(08:18):
certain situations.
Maybe it's not the same.
You also, I think you learnbecause there's so many
different demographics injujitsu.
You've got CEOs, you've got 17year old that works at
Chick-fil-A, you've got a mom ofthree, and you've got all these
different people interacting.
(08:39):
So you learn to deal withdifferent kinds of people.
So your echo chamber is muchlarger.
And you're exposed to ideasthat maybe you weren't exposed
to.
And you lose to those people.
And it's like you share thisstruggle with each other.
So I think in a lot of ways, itkind of humbles you.
(09:00):
And it makes you realize thatmaybe even if you think you're
right about something or youfeel a certain way, you realize
there's so many otherviewpoints.
And you're so close to thosepeople because you train
together every day.
You respect them to a levelthat maybe...
if you didn't have that, maybeyou would never listen to that
person's viewpoint.
So I think humility is probablythe biggest thing, you know?
(09:23):
And secondly, I would say, um,jujitsu is physically very
uncomfortable.
Like when you lose, you know,you've got some 200 pound guy
like pinning you down and tryingto choke you.
Um, but you still have toproblem solve in those
conditions.
And you're at a fatigue levelthat most people probably
haven't experienced when likerunning fatigue is up to you.
(09:44):
How hard, Do you want to stop?
Do you want to keep going?
Do you want to, you know, youget on the treadmill and you can
push yourself, but you alwayshave control of it.
But in a five minute round withsomeone, you're going to hit
those moments where you're like,I don't know that I can keep
doing this.
Meanwhile, you're still havingto think technically, you're
still having to problem solveand it's like solving very
complex problems and puzzleswhile being focused.
(10:06):
frustrated your ego is gettingdestroyed your your coach is
yelling at you to do somethingyou're like i can't do it i'm
too tired everyone's watchingand you know they're we're all
sharing that together so yeah ithink the problem solving under
stress and then humility wouldbe probably the two biggest
things for sure
Dr. Shay (10:25):
i love that i love that and on a side note i have a
Jeremy Akin (10:30):
a
Dr. Shay (10:30):
personal like addiction right now to watching
like those YouTube clips of likethe bodybuilders who think
they're super strong and try tochallenge like a jujitsu master.
I'm like,
Jeremy Akin (10:38):
yeah,
Dr. Shay (10:40):
it's very satisfying.
Jeremy Akin (10:42):
It is very satisfying for sure.
Dr. Shay (10:44):
So given those sort of lessons you just discussed,
problem solving and humility,can you think of a moment when
you avoided maybe a real lifeconfrontation because of what
you learned through training?
Jeremy Akin (10:56):
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Shay (10:57):
Yeah.
Jeremy Akin (10:59):
So when I was younger, I'm a very intense
person, just still.
Even as an old guy, I'm stillpretty intense.
And when I was younger, I wasprobably a little too intense.
And I think early on beforejujitsu, I was quick to react,
maybe even violently.
Because I was kickboxing, andthat is pretty violent.
(11:21):
That is how you solve problems.
So when I came into jujitsu...
I didn't realize it washappening, but being humbled
that way.
And I was 25, so I was a goodathlete, you know, and I didn't
have the excuses, you know,like, oh, if I was just, you
know, younger.
So I think there's so many.
(11:42):
One I can think of, I was at arestaurant.
We were after training and itwas like a bar restaurant.
And this guy was walking fromtable to table, kind of totally
harassing people.
You know, and he was, he'd comeover and he came over to our
table and was like, oh, why areyou, why you got so sweaty?
(12:02):
And then we're like, oh,jujitsu.
And he's like, oh, you know, isit, you're like rolling around
the ground with a bunch of guysand just making a bunch, like
whatever, you know?
And we're like exhausted.
We're like, dude, we're herefor some wings and just to
relax, like relax, you know?
And then I watched him go fromtable to table harassing people.
And then I noticed what he wasdoing was he was putting his
drinks on those tables and So hewould come over and act like
(12:25):
they was friends and go to thebar.
Like, Hey, yeah, just put my,my drink on that time.
And you know, we went there alot.
So I knew, you know, I knew theservers and bartenders and
everything.
And, and then he went over tothis one table, um, full, mostly
women.
And I could see howuncomfortable they were when the
guy was kind of rough and helooked like the kind of guy that
(12:47):
was there for trouble.
So I got frustrated and I waslike, well, let me, let me go
talk to him.
And I saw him going to thebathroom.
And I was like, okay, well,this will be a quiet time to
talk.
And I went in there, and Iremember he immediately puffed
up.
And he's like, man, I don'tcare.
(13:07):
I've had my butt whoopedbefore.
And I'm like, all right.
And we go to this whole thing.
And I remember I felt so sorryfor him.
I wasn't even angry.
And I remember I grabbed himand turned him around.
I was like, we're both standingin front of the mirror.
And I was like, it's going tobe okay.
And he starts crying.
I mean, he just loses it.
(13:29):
And he's like, man, I justmoved here from Florida.
I don't know anybody.
I'm just really drunk.
This is not who I am.
And I was like, it's okay, man.
So I gave him a hug and wewalked out.
The manager's like, you got togo.
And I was like, hang on.
He wants to say something.
He's like, I'm so sorry.
And so then he goes, I walkedinto every table and he
(13:49):
apologized and all that stuff.
But my instinct was to go back.
grab this dude and get him outof there.
But I think because I felt solittle threat from him
physically that I didn't, therewas no primitive kind of old
brain telling me to fight.
There was just like this, themodern brain trying to problem
(14:11):
solve and realizing this guy washarmless.
And it was, it was one of thosethings.
I tell that story a lot because10 years ago, that probably
would have gone differently.
It could have easily, and Icould have probably justified
that to myself that Oh, it'sprotecting people.
But I think it's moments likethat where I feel pity when
people are that upset now.
I feel bad for them, even ifit's at me, even if they hate
(14:34):
me.
And like I said earlier, thephysical gentle is the
mechanical compliance.
I'd say the philosophicalgentle part of jujitsu is you
know what actual fighting feelslike and you know how bad it
hurts and you know the realitiesof it.
And you also know that it canbe decided in a moment.
(14:55):
Even as a black belt, I couldslip and fall and hit my head on
the curb.
So because of all of that, thelast thing you ever want to do
is really fight.
So it creates this internal...
It heightens your empathy.
And it's like you realize thatthey're angry, but that's just
an insecurity.
(15:15):
It's a fear that they'reexperiencing.
And I think if you're alsoinsecure...
it's hard to, it's hard to evenrealize that they're just
acting out like a kid would, youknow?
So I think that's, that'sprobably the thing.
And the downside is you onlyget that through like actual
hard training.
Okay.
(15:36):
You know, and, and jujitsu hastaken this turn recently where
there's like corporate jujitsumodels that have become very not
hard and they're selling beltsand it's kind of becoming
commercial.
It, So the downside is thosepeople will probably never get
(15:57):
that gentle part because it'sbeen watered down to a point
where they're not going toexperience the struggle that
actually makes you gentle.
And of course, that's a wholeother business talk.
Dr. Shay (16:10):
I love the struggle that makes you gentle.
I love that.
And so a lot of what you'retalking about, too, You know,
this is not just a male centeredthing, of course, but I know
ego plays a lot into, you know,fighting in general, how people
interact.
And so I'm thinking about like,you know, jujitsu brings people
(16:32):
face to face with the ground,like literally.
I'm wondering what you've seen,like a story of like a student
or maybe someone's likeevolution from like starting
training with you until overtime, you've just seen this
transformation in them.
Jeremy Akin (16:47):
Yeah, a lot.
I mean, honestly, all, all ofthe people that make it to, you
know, purple, brown and blackbelt, it's in, it's crazy.
You'll see, you'll see guysthat come in.
Like I said, that everythinghas been there.
Every, they check all thelists, like they're raised in
the right economic situation.
They had everything.
(17:08):
And then most of the time theycome in, they experienced
struggle and they quit.
Right.
But the people who stay are,watching how they evolve and we
and we do a thing with our gymswhere when someone gets promoted
a purple brown or black beltthey give a speech and the
speech is answering threequestions one is why jujitsu
(17:30):
like why did i get into it rightum two is what have i learned
about myself and then three islike what advice would i give my
white belt self like if i couldgo back in time And those three
questions have, I mean, there'sbeen some really like
emotional, I just break downspeeches.
It's been amazing.
But you see people on two ends,like one, the guy comes in with
(17:53):
an ego and then gets humbledand becomes a better person.
And then you see people withlike no confidence at all who
interact in any situation.
So I think it's, if you do itand you're willing to struggle,
it'll give you what you need,you know, regardless of what
that is.
Dr. Shay (18:11):
That's amazing.
And I'm going to say the badword in the room, the S word,
submission.
So how does being submitted orsubmitting teach something
deeper about power andsurrender?
Jeremy Akin (18:28):
So I think in a couple of ways.
One, like if somebody, likewhen I kickboxed and someone
knocks you out, you didn'treally quit.
like they just hit a buttonwhen you're out and you wake up
and most of the time you don'teven know you're knocked out
you're like i'm fine likestumbling around you know and so
you didn't really admit thatyou lost and a lot of a lot of
(18:51):
things it's like in basketballlike oh well if you'd have
passed me the ball we'd have wonthe in team sports there's
always this out oh well it's thecoach it's my teammate or
whatever but in in jiu-jitsu andwrestling and i want to include
wrestling with jiu-jitsubecause it doesn't get talked
about a lot as a martial art, asa sport, but it instills a lot
(19:12):
of the same things.
And I think it's probably evenharder than jujitsu at a high
level.
Like college wrestlers gothrough some, some like true
show.
It's a rough sport, but it'sthe same thing.
It's, it's you and it's, youget up there, you compete.
And if you lose, it's on youand there's no teammate to
blame.
It's your preparation, yourexecution.
(19:33):
Um, So I think that's, that'ssomething that like builds,
build the confidence inyourself.
When you get submitted, it'slike this realization that you
weren't enough in that moment.
And it's, you try as hard asyou can.
And in so many other things youlose, it's because someone
else, like I didn't get a raisebecause so-and-so it's like, in
(19:57):
reality is a lot of times youjust maybe didn't deserve it.
Maybe you just didn't work thathard.
You know what I mean?
Like my wife's a lawyer andshe, She's a partner and I see
the amount of work she does.
And people are like, man, I'ddo anything for that money.
I'm like, man, you could notsurvive her week.
Dr. Shay (20:14):
You
Jeremy Akin (20:14):
know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
You want to see work, go watchher, you know.
But it's the same thing withlike when you're in a sport and
a submission is like this momentwhere you're basically telling
them that you can't possiblywin, that you are done.
It's checkmate.
It's the end of it, you know.
And I think a lot of timespeople think of submission as
(20:37):
the actual submission hold, likean arm lock or a choke, but
it's really not.
It's you are basically askingthem to stop because they have
bested you.
And that's like a humblingthing, especially if you don't
maybe like them, or maybe onceagain, maybe in everywhere else
in life, you're up here andthey're down here and it's, it's
(20:58):
tough, you know, but I thinkit's, I was talking to, uh, one
of the younger guys that'strains here.
And I think in so many areas oflife, you, you have to submit
to something in order to getover yourself, like whether
it's, whether it's faith,whether it's love or whatever it
is.
And I think people that arerefused to do that, that's like
(21:21):
the ultimate expression of ego.
So, yeah, I mean, I thinksubmission can sound scary, you
know, like your choke holdsstuff, but yeah, I mean, I've
gotten hurt worse playingbasketball, you know, rolling my
ankle in basketball hurts worseand all that.
So, you know, I think it soundsmore like jujitsu seems more
violent.
Like, oh my God, someone'sgoing to choke you, but they're
(21:42):
not really, they're like,they're doing it, but they're
also wanting you to quit.
They're like, man, come on,just tap.
Like there's a culture injujitsu where you get mad if
people actually don't tap.
It's like, come on, man, you'redone here.
And then if they make you putmore force on it, it just feels
weird.
And wrestling doesn't havesubmissions.
(22:04):
So I think the biggestdifference between jiu-jitsu and
wrestling would be that.
But, I mean, very similar pathswhere it's like face your own
ego.
Dr. Shay (22:14):
Yeah, wow.
And so what do you wish morepeople understood about the
mindset behind the sport?
Jeremy Akin (22:23):
Yeah.
I wish more people understoodhow fragile their egos really
are.
You know, I wish peopleunderstood that one of the most
freeing, liberating things inthe world is getting over that,
you know, and we spend so muchof our time hiding from it, you
know, it's like, and we all do.
(22:43):
I mean, you know, it's, I mean,I did for years, even in
jujitsu.
I mean, it took me years tobreak.
I mean, I was stubborn.
But yeah, I mean, it's, like Isaid, you have to give in at
some point and realize you don'tknow everything, you know.
And I think that's one thing Iwish people knew about
(23:04):
themselves so they would searchsomething out, whether it's
jujitsu or not.
As far as things to know aboutjujitsu, probably some of the
best friends you'll ever have inyour life come from that.
And it's really, it sounds, andmaybe, maybe we cut this out.
I don't know how this is goingto sound, but there's a, there's
(23:25):
a little bit of trauma bondingthat happens because you're, you
are going through some really,really hard times together.
You're, I mean, you're, you'relosing, you're, you're hitting
your complete fatigue.
You're trying as hard as youcan.
And that other person is justbetter than you.
You come back the next day andface that.
There's a lot of, a lot oflong, quiet rides home after
(23:46):
training, you know?
Yeah.
And then you show back up.
And I think the bonds you buildthrough seeing that resilience
in each other.
And it's like, as much as Ilove my friends, I still want to
beat them.
And that's okay.
I mean, it's like, because if Iwin, I'm going to be happy.
If they win, after a while,I'll be happy for them too.
(24:07):
But I feel like a lot of, youknow, there's a bit of a zero
sum in the moment.
But afterwards, there's like asense of like, you're happy for
your friends, even if it's atyour expense.
And I think the bonds and therelationships are incredible.
Every friend I've got at thispoint in my life came from
jujitsu other than my wife.
Dr. Shay (24:29):
Wow.
Has she done any training?
Jeremy Akin (24:33):
We train privately.
She's a bit of a germaphobe.
So she's like, oh my God,there's people's feet.
Dr. Shay (24:43):
Honestly, that is...
That is so funny.
That's kind of my reservationtoo.
So many times I thought aboutit.
I was like, oh, I might want totry a class, but like, I don't
want everyone touching me.
I
Jeremy Akin (24:55):
get it.
It's really weird.
You know how like, if you evergo to a place and it smells but
then an hour later you can'tsmell it anymore it's kind of
like that it's like at firstyou're like oh god but then
after a while you're like allsweaty and you just forget about
it but if you walk in in themiddle of it it's disgusting
Dr. Shay (25:14):
oh my
Jeremy Akin (25:15):
god
Dr. Shay (25:18):
okay so um from what i've been learning about the
sport um one of my favoritelessons from jujitsu is that
just because you can win withforce doesn't mean you should so
that principle alone feels likea metaphor for leadership
relationships and just dailylife so how do you help your
students um develop restraintand wisdom alongside the skill
(25:40):
because i assume there's justsome people who again just want
to come in and learn how to dothe technical skill so how do
you how do you do that
Jeremy Akin (25:48):
um that's where the community is is really
important like there's womenthat train i mean one of my main
athletes i work with is a 140pounds, 22, 23 year old, you
know, female and I'm 190 pounds.
So it's like, if you can'ttrain with someone smaller than
(26:11):
you, someone that maybe it's notphysically as strong or
whatever, then that's pure, pureego.
Oh, it's like, oh, I can win.
So I'm going to, and you know,I think a lot of it is just,
there's moments where like a newperson comes in and they're you
want another training partner.
You want more people in yourgroup of friends because you
(26:31):
know how positive it is for you.
So you want them to come in andenjoy it.
So when you're training withthem, you let them have success
and you like kind of encouragethem.
And through doing that, you arekind of, you're flexing that
muscle of like, even though youabsolutely can control that or
win that game or whatever we'redoing at the time, You're
(26:52):
understanding there's maybe agreater good in there where
you're like, maybe this personneeds this win.
You learn to almost ease peoplein, and everyone does.
If the grossness wasn'tinvolved, if you started
training, and in a year afteryou've done that and somebody
(27:12):
walks in the door, you're goingto remember what it felt like.
And you're going to want themto stay and you're going to make
it a little easier on them.
And so I think a lot of, maybethat's one of the misconceptions
is that people are going towalk in and then everyone's
going to try to beat them up.
And really, I mean, jujitsukind of, there's like a joke
(27:32):
where jujitsu is kind of like acult.
I mean, you can't have culturewithout cult, right?
But it's like...
It is in a way like this groupthat wants to grow because you
understand how powerful it is.
So you know that if you justthrottle someone that walks
through the door, they're goingto quit.
And everyone knows that.
And there's also like aself-regulating filtering system
(27:57):
in jujitsu where people thatdon't get that don't last.
Whether it's maybe everyonesees that, so the people that
are bigger and stronger thanthem maybe let them feel what it
feels like, or whether it'sjust one of those talks where, I
mean, I've, I've asked peopleto leave my gym many times over
the years.
So they just don't reallyunderstand what the point of it
(28:19):
is, you know?
And, and that's fine.
And there's, there's a team injujitsu that their marketing
slogan is jujitsu is foreveryone.
And it's not, it's really not.
I mean, it's not easy.
It's, it's not fun.
If you, if you don't like tostruggle, it's not fun.
Um, but the people that it isfor are maybe not the people
(28:40):
you'd think.
So I think it's, it's likeanything.
It's hard.
I mean, it's, I guess intheory, everyone can do it, but
it's not gonna, gonna be theright path for everyone.
Dr. Shay (28:51):
So building on that, cause you brought up an
interesting point that it's notfor everyone.
You've had to even ask peopleto leave.
So what is like emotionaldiscipline look like in your
studio?
Jeremy Akin (29:02):
I think it, Usually the way the way when I'm
watching people interact, youknow, I'm looking for for
empathy.
You know, I'm looking for howdo they treat the people on
their team?
You know, then when I get intothe micro, it's like, how do
they handle loss?
You know, how do they handlestruggle?
(29:24):
Because a lot of people andit's normal early on to like,
make excuses.
That's the first thing everyonedoes.
Man, I'm so tired.
I'm so out of shape.
I got to get back in shape.
It's like, that's not why youlost, but that's fine.
You know?
But you know, so I'm emotionalgrowth in jujitsu is typically
like when someone loses and it'slike, man, I've got to figure
(29:45):
out how to solve that problembetter.
And that's, but that alsoscales everywhere.
You know what I mean?
It's like you're at home andyou and your significant other
arguing and Maybe, maybe youshare that responsibility and
this is like a problem toovercome.
It's not this emotional, it'snot a battle.
We're not trying to be right.
It's like, how do you solve theproblem?
(30:07):
So, you know, I think when Isee my students or my training
partners be able to step backand problem solve, even no
matter how much invested effortthere is in that moment.
You know, I think that's,that's one of the things I'm
looking for as a professor isthat, And there's always, I
mean, there's going to befrustration.
There's going to be like peoplewho get mad and there's going
(30:30):
to be little hiccups wherepeople will just like, you know,
slap the mat.
And then I'll talk to him andbe like, you got to relax, man.
You know, it's like, it's notthat serious.
You know, your kids still loveyou.
Just relax.
It's not that big a deal, youknow?
But yeah.
Dr. Shay (30:46):
That's funny.
Okay.
So gosh, this has been anamazing conversation.
For someone listening who's ina tough season, who feels like
every interaction in any aspectof their life is a power
struggle, what wisdom fromjiu-jitsu would you offer them?
Jeremy Akin (31:04):
I think if you feel like you don't have power or
control in your own life, maybenot control, but if you don't
have a say in your own life, Ithink you start internal and you
start with the way you'relooking at problems.
When I was...
In my mid-20s, I was goingthrough a really tough time.
(31:27):
I was moving.
I had a young baby.
My life, I'd failed ateverything.
I remember I grew up doing alot of visual art.
That was my thing when I was akid.
I was looking at this color andI was like, man, this is the
cheesiest story.
But it's like, there's thisflower outside my window and I
(31:48):
was in a pretty dark depressionat the time.
And it was like bright red.
And I remember thinking like, Iwonder what that red looks like
to other people, right?
Because colors is really justyour interpretation of a
texture, right?
So, and then I was like, man,what an odd thing that we agree
this is red, but we all see itdifferently, right?
So that kind of, I startedscaling that to everything.
(32:11):
So I I realized that like myperception of what was happening
to me was where my control ofmy, my life was.
So my dad was always likereally big on, you know, you
make your mind up to be happy ornot, but it's up to you.
Like you can be happy in badsituations or miserable and good
ones, you know?
So I think like when I cameinto Juvia too, I kind of had
(32:34):
that mindset already of I it'sup to me how I perceive the
stimulus.
It's not the stimulus itself.
Maybe it's not the problemalways.
Right.
Um, And then I think theconfidence of jujitsu is what
allows you to kind of like belike, okay, maybe I suck at
this.
I don't have to be good ateverything, right?
Like I play guitar.
(32:55):
I'm not a very good guitarplayer and I've been playing
since I was 11 and that's okay.
You know what I mean?
And I think the more confidenceyou get it, It anything like
it, you know, like in yourcareer, the more you, you know,
gain skill and knowledge andmore confidence you get in that.
And that bleeds over, I'm sureto everything you do.
And so I think going through atough season, it's like find
(33:18):
something that you can actuallyaffect, you know, which is your
perception for me anyway, andwork on it.
And so I chose to makedecisions to, you know, be as
healthy as I could be as fit asI can.
be like, when I say I'm goingto do something, I'm going to do
it.
That kind of thing.
All those are like martialarts.
(33:39):
Those are kind of the tenantsof martial arts, like be a good
human kind of thing.
But, and with somebody, itdoesn't have the vehicle for
that.
I think jujitsu is an excellentone.
I mean, there's, there's tonsof them, right?
I'm not seeing friends joinCrossFit gyms and find that same
thing.
So yeah, but I think forsomething to bring you out of
(33:59):
that, it has to show you thetruth of your, you have to see
your own truth.
You have to see that you areflawed too.
And I think there's, it's,there's no way to have a victim
mindset in Jiu Jitsu and thenstay in it.
Cause that mindset will, willmake you leave, you know?
And so, yeah, I think for, forJiu Jitsu, that's always, you
(34:22):
know, that's my vehicle.
So I always encourage people todo that, but like I said, it's
not for everyone.
Um, But yeah, I don't know ifthat answers the question.
Dr. Shay (34:30):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So before I let you go, Jeremy,can you let the audience know
how to follow you and your work?
If you have any socials,website, your studio name again?
Yeah.
Jeremy Akin (34:42):
So the name of our gems and our association is
Perfectus.
It's Latin for progress oradvancement.
We've got...
We've got a shop.
So perfectus.shop where we sellgear.
We've got perfectushq.com iswhere all the gym websites are.
And, you know, we do like freedrop-ins if anybody's curious
(35:04):
about jujitsu and they want toexperience it, come in.
You can watch as many classesas you want.
You can jump in and try it out,you know?
Yeah.
I
Dr. Shay (35:14):
love
Jeremy Akin (35:15):
it.
Dr. Shay (35:16):
Well, I want to thank you so much for your time.
As we wrap up today'sconversation, I hope you're
walking away with a newperspective on conflict, not
just as something to win oravoid, but as something to
engage with differently.
Jiu-Jitsu teaches us thatstrength isn't always about
force.
It's about understandingenergy, using leverage, and
staying grounded when things gettense.
(35:37):
The same is true in ourrelationships at work and within
ourselves.
When we stop meeting resistancewith more resistance, we create
space for solutions that thatdon't escalate, but evolve.
Whether it's a disagreementwith a colleague, a tense family
moment, or even an internalstruggle, we can ask, how can I
redirect this energy instead ofpushing back?
Where can I stay flexiblewithout losing my footing?
(35:59):
And that's the quiet power ofjujitsu.
And it reminds us thatsometimes the most effective way
to resolve conflict is not tofight harder, but to move
smarter.
As always, thank you forjoining me today in the
Resolution Room.
I'm grateful you're here doingthis work alongside me.
If this episode spoke to you,I'd love for you to please
share.
And until next time, keepbuilding in the quiet because
(36:22):
that's what will carry youforward.
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