May 9, 2025 • 35 mins
Are you ready for CVSA's International Roadcheck?
Todd James, Program Manager at Drivewyze by Fleetworthy and former Colorado State Patrol Sargeant, joins John and Rob to give a detailed look at what inspectors are looking for, and shares tips for fleets and drivers to turn the inspection blitz into an advantage.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Welcome back to The Road Ahead.
On this episode, we're going totalk about Road Check 2025.
I'm super excited about this.
We got Rob Abbott, as usual, anda special guest, Todd James.
Rob, I was just curious, becausetoday at the mid-year ATA show,
I was the safety subcommittee.
I was like at that like It wasthe most exciting thing I've
(00:28):
ever been in.
When did you realize you were asafety nerd?
Because now I think I'mofficially a safety nerd.
Are you a safety nerd?
Yeah, we're going to put alittle
SPEAKER_02 (00:34):
tape around your glasses like that, like Elvis
Costello.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Yeah, I was like on the edge of my seat.
Are they going to allow, youknow, food testing and hair
testing or, you know, it was
SPEAKER_02 (00:45):
exciting
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Now, this conference that John and I are at, Todd, is
the ATA Mid-Year ManagementMeeting, and they had their
policy committees meeting, andso they met on safety issues,
and there was a lot to talkabout.
English language proficiency,road check, hair testing for
drugs, any number of things.
And we had someone from FMCSA,Larry Miner speaking, and a lot
(01:07):
of good questions about what toexpect next, which is anybody's
guess.
I
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
think there's going to be some interesting changes
coming here in the next month ortwo.
Interesting
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
as a word.
So our guest today for theRoadCheck 2025 episode is Todd
James.
So Todd, do you want to give usa little background on your
experience and expertise?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Sure.
Well, we'll just drive rightinto it.
Yeah, I'm Todd James.
I'm a program manager withDriveWise.
I am on the DriveWiseinfrastructure team.
side of the house.
I'm not on the fleet side.
What that means is I deal a lotwith government entities that
use our products for enforcementof commercial vehicle laws.
(01:50):
Why is that relative to me?
Well, I did 26 and a half yearswith the Colorado State Patrol.
I spent five years as a roadtrooper.
I spent five years as a motorcarrier safety trooper.
And then I promoted into a humansmuggling and human trafficking
task force.
And five years of that, I wentback into commercial motor
(02:13):
vehicles and finished out 11years as a sergeant on the
trooper side in the motorcarrier safety section.
And in that section, I wasactually responsible for
administering Colorado's CSAprogram.
I was also the new entrantsafety audit program manager for
(02:33):
a short time.
And I conducted my own roadsideinspections, compliance reviews,
post-crash inspections.
Got my feet wet in a little bitof legislation and was a
rulemaking person.
So yeah, I've got quite a robustexperience with commercial motor
vehicles.
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
So just a little bit of background about RoadCheck
2025, Todd.
It happens in U.S., Canada, andMexico.
Anything else to expand on howthat kind of works and what
people...
should know or do know aboutroad check?
Just a little background.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
I'll give kind of a satellite view.
So it's the Commercial VehicleSafety Alliance annual event.
It's a three-day event, like yousaid, John, across three
countries, Canada, the U.S., andMexico.
And for a lot of jurisdictions,it's an all-hands-on-deck
commercial vehicle enforcementoperation from coast to coast.
So drivers and fleets can expectincreased presence of commercial
(03:32):
vehicle inspectors.
not only from state and federalenforcement officers, but there
are county and cityjurisdictions that also enter
into memorandums ofunderstanding that may be
participating in Operation RoadCheck.
So it's a surge for enforcementofficials to basically conduct
(03:53):
as many inspections as they canfor a three-day time period.
And I've got a few statistics wecan talk about here when we get
to that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Todd, you know that That raises a question in my
mind.
So do you think, even thoughthey've been doing road check
for as long as I can remember,decades now, right, that, and
fleet should be aware of it, youknow, there are 14 million
commercial motor vehicles, butthey can only do three and a
half million inspectionsannually.
So vehicle inspections is not ascommon as one would think.
(04:22):
Do you think fleets reallyunderstand what road check is?
I mean, are they familiar withit now that it's been going on
for decades?
And do you think they understandwhat it is and that it's coming?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
That's an actually interesting question.
So I'm going to, I'm going toanswer that in two stages.
First of all, your interstatefleets, maybe your larger fleets
that are crossing state linesthat are more subject to a
roadside inspections at a fixedfacility, just because of the
nature of their business.
In my experience, those driversseem to be more prepared for,
(04:55):
for a road check.
Right.
When you start talking aboutintrastate commercial vehicle
operations that may notnecessarily cross a fixed
facility's operationalboundaries, those are the
drivers that may be moresurprised about road check just
because they're not crossing theinterstate boundaries like some
(05:18):
of the over-the-road vehicles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
All right.
They just don't encounter waystations or scales.
But they could this time.
For sure.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Do
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
you want to give us just a little, before we get
deep into the road check, just alittle background on the general
inspection, the 37-point, Ithink it is, inspection, and
maybe the different levels ofinspection?
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
Okay, yeah, so officers are going to conduct,
typically, there's three levelsof inspection that an officer is
going to conduct.
And these inspections arespecified by Commercial Vehicle
Safety Alliance.
So there's very specificinspection items as part of the
certified inspector required tobe checked on roadside
(06:02):
inspection.
So what inspectors are going todo, a typical level one
inspection is a full inspection.
And it's going to be the mosttime consuming.
And I'll kind of explain whatthat is.
Level 1 inspection is atop-to-bottom driver
credentialing inspection.
That includes the ELD, driver'slicense, medical card, skills
(06:23):
performance evaluation, ifapplicable, as well as
registration paperwork for thetruck.
And then it's a very in-depthmechanical inspection, a
walk-around inspection of theexterior of the vehicle, tires,
lights, brakes.
steering, wheels, couplingdevices.
And then the second component tothat would be an undercarriage
(06:46):
inspection where the officertakes a deeper look at the brake
system, how the brakes arefunctioning, proper brake
adjustment, the steering, thesuspension, and they're looking
for any frame defects.
And then the final inspectionitem would or at part of the
inspection would be loadsecurement.
(07:06):
So it's important to remembersafe loading.
So that's a typical level oneinspection.
And there are, like you said,John, there are 37 points.
Basically, it's all of theregulations out of part 395 and
393 that the drivers will bereally looking at for hours of
service and for mechanicalissues.
(07:29):
And then once a defect is noted,the inspector is going to place
that on a roadside inspection.
And they're going to verifywhether the identified defect
meets an out-of-servicecriteria.
And I'll explain what that ishere in just a minute.
The level two inspection isgoing to be all of the driver
credentialing, like I justexplained, and nothing will
change.
(07:50):
And the walk-around inspectionof the exterior of the vehicle,
looking at lighting, tires,visible brake components,
coupling devices.
Load securement, you know, framedefects.
and many hazardous materials.
And again, upon completion of alevel two inspection, the
officer will fill out anotherroadside safety inspection,
(08:12):
apply any out of servicecriteria as needed.
And the last thing that mostdrivers will encounter out there
is a level three inspection.
And what a level threeinspection is, is a
credentialing inspection.
So the officer is going to lookat ELD, CDL, medical cards,
skills performance valuations,hazardous shipping papers and
(08:36):
registrations for the vehicle.
So out of service criteria,let's talk about that.
So what I said was defects aregoing to be noted on the
roadside inspection and theofficer will apply the
Commercial Vehicle SafetyAlliance out of service criteria
to whatever defects theydiscover, whether it's a driver
issue or a mechanical defect.
(08:59):
And that out of service criteriawill tell the officer if the
observed defect meets anout-of-service criteria, and
very specific criteria, that thevehicle or driver will be placed
out of service until saiddefects are repaired.
So that's the CVSAout-of-service criteria.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
And Todd, during the inspection process, Are there
things that, you know, as aprofessional inspector, you
advise them to do for driversthat would make the process
easier, a little quicker?
Are there things that maybe theydo unwittingly that make it
longer and harder?
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
I think just a driver's being familiar with
first and foremost outside ofroad check.
Drivers just need to be familiarthat they potentially will be
inspected by a commercialvehicle inspector.
And just knowing that They areoperating in one of the most
regulated, if not the top two orthree most regulated industries
(10:03):
in the country.
That really speaks to some peaceof mind for the driver.
They just need to know thatthey're going to be inspected.
They are going to haveinteractions with law
enforcement.
It's not adversarial.
The law enforcement areenforcing regulatory guidelines
and state statutes that they'vebeen trained to enforce.
And it's all the enhancedcommercial vehicle safety.
(10:25):
It's not a...
there's not a culture of goingout and picking on a specific
motor carrier or a specificindustry.
It's impacting the industryholistically.
So familiarity for the drivers,understanding that these
inspections do take time and thenumber of defects discovered by
(10:47):
an officer will affect the timethe driver is tied up on the
roadside.
And if there are defects notedthat are out of service, the
driver's not going to be allowedto leave where the inspection is
only under very certainparameters.
On the fleet side, let me talk alittle bit about the fleets.
We talk a lot about the driversare the ones that are directly
(11:09):
impacted.
But on the fleet side, fleetsneed to understand that the road
check is going on and that theirfleets are obviously subject to
roadside inspections.
How does this impact on thefleet side?
be wary and understand thatthere are going to be more
officers out during this timeframe in more condensed areas
(11:32):
and more condensed time framesthat you may end up getting
inspected more frequently thanoutside of Operation Road Check.
So you've got to plan that intoyour route, your delivery times,
your pickup times.
Make sure your driversunderstand when they need to
rest and plan accordingly.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
That's great advice.
Anything common you see evenwith some of the bigger fleets
or well-run fleets that justyou're surprised when you see
them, the common slip-up or acommon issue?
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
I think just even the top five defects that are
noted even on inspections areconsistent with larger fleets
all the way down to the singleone-person fleet.
Brakes always seem to be anissue as it relates to
mechanical inspections.
(12:25):
Lighting is always an issue.
And then tires, which is likethe number three violation,
actually that's a focus of thisyear's road check are tire
issues.
And that's just of all of theequipment that takes most of the
abuse, regardless of theindustry or the size of fleet,
(12:47):
seems to be the tires and thelighting that that seem to take
most of the abuse so that's imean obviously that's where you
see more and more of the defects
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
so todd you mentioned that it's one of the
emphases of bro check i thinkthere is two right so this year
it's tires and hours of servicecorrect yep so you know with our
service they're typically goingto be asking for an electronic
transfer of the uh the recordsof duty status from the ELD
system.
What are the biggest flagsyou're looking for?
(13:20):
Or as an inspector in yourcareer, what are the things that
really stand out to you that,hey, these are the sort of
things that are eye-popping tome when I'm pulling hours of
service records?
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
I think the first thing that drivers have to be
aware of, and this ties backinto...
Maybe expediting the inspectiona little bit.
Drivers have to be knowledgeableof how to transfer their ELD to
ERODs.
There's a lot of officers thatare not going to be patient with
that.
If the driver doesn't have theinstructions of how to do that,
(13:53):
that's going to show as aviolation on the roadside
inspection.
If there are not blank logbookpages as required by regulation,
that's going to show up on aninspection.
The federal system is...
very accurate at identifyingpotential violations that have
to be verified by enforcementofficers.
(14:14):
You know, I just cannotreiterate enough for folks that
are using ELDs that you have tounderstand what is personal
conveyance and Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So it sounds to me like the biggest red flags that
you would guide fleets on is,you know, you're going to be
asked for what's called a datatransfer from the ELD to the
officer.
And you better know what that isbefore you pull in, not get
there and fumble through, well,gee, I got a manual, let me read
it and figure it out, right?
They're going to be impatientfor that.
And then the second is if theysee in the last seven days that
(15:06):
you've used personal conveyance,there's going to be some
scrutiny on that to say, hey,were you, you know, using your
truck really in personalconveyance?
advance to go to a hotel or getsomething to eat?
Or were you really furtheringcommerce?
Were you moving in the directionof picking up your next load or
dropping off your next load?
So for you, those are the twobiggies,
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
huh?
Yeah.
And to tie into, you know, tothe ELD and personal conveyance,
you know, there's officers arealways looking at all of the
required information out of part395, you know, the 11 and 14,
60, 70 hour rule.
And their officers are very welltrained on looking for false
records of duty status.
(15:45):
There's a time in a driver's ELDwhere you may need to violate an
hours of service rule.
That just happens in thisindustry, that there is a rule
that may need to be violated.
Is it still a violation?
(16:05):
Absolutely it is.
Where it becomes a problem is ifthere's an intent to conceal
these violations.
And officers are very good atidentifying potential
concealment of hours of serviceregulations.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
Yeah.
So you'd rather see potentiallya violation with maybe a comment
explaining what happened ratherthan identifying where he's
falsified.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Absolutely.
You know, even on the roadsideinspection, looking at the
driver's ELD, and on thecompliance side of the house
through an intervention, I wouldprefer to see the violation as
it occurred than with a note,like you said, John, than an
intent to conceal the violation.
It just, concealing violationsjust never, it never works out.
(16:52):
Todd,
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
the other one.
Go ahead, Todd.
I was just going to say, we'retalking to fleets.
In addition to the personalconveyance, split sleeper seems
to be something that people maynot even allow their drivers to
use because it can be confusing,and sometimes it works against
the driver.
Do you check for that as well,or is it not as much of
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
a mistake?
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, rest requirements isalways a component of evaluating
the driver's ELD.
know and as we're talking abouthours of service i was thinking
about this you know we talk alot about elds and and drivers
that are subject to eld what weneed to be mindful on the
inspector side of the house onenforcement as well as on the
(17:35):
fleet side are exceptions to theeld for example um it used to be
100 air mile drivers that nowit's short haul drivers so
fleets and drivers that thatoperate and meet all of the
criteria specified in short hauloperations, as long as they meet
all of the criteria specified inthat exemption, they don't have
(17:55):
to run an ELD.
So there's a lot of fleets outthere that don't run ELDs and
they're not required to becausethey fall under the parameters
of an exemption.
But the fleets and drivers haveto understand what are those
provisions and are we followingthose provisions to the letter
of the law?
Because any deviation from thatthrows you back into needing an
(18:19):
ELD or a logbook for a specifictrip.
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
You know, you mentioned there were two
emphases or areas of emphasis,the hours of service, but also
tires.
Tires, I think, for thelayperson, that's a little
surprising because let's behonest, there was a time decades
ago before radial tires whereeverybody needed to know where
their spare was.
They needed to know how to jackup their car, how to change a
tire, right?
That's something you need toknow.
Now, some cars come without evena spare tire in them, and most
(18:47):
people wouldn't know where tofind the one they have.
So why is it with trucks we'respending time on tire
inspections?
Why is that relevant andimportant here?
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
Well, again, going back to what I said a little bit
ago, tires take a lot of abusein the freight system.
They're always running overthings.
You get a slash in a tire, thatbecomes a problem.
Look, the regulations are putinto place.
to enhance commercial vehiclesafety in the United States,
(19:21):
Canada, and Mexico.
And with tires, you know, theyare definitely more regulated
than a passenger vehicle.
And it's because of the sureamount of miles that are put on
these tires.
So again, that is...
That isn't another component ofthis year's road check.
It's hours of service and thefocus this year is on tires.
(19:44):
And I'll give you guys anexample of some tire issues that
I saw personally.
But like I said, I did pull somestatistical data as we were
preparing for the podcast.
And the top five violations thatare noted on roadside
inspections are hours ofservice, brakes, tires is the
third.
lights and then seat belts sooverall as violations identified
(20:06):
in all roadside inspectionstires is number three um again
it's it's it's those mechanicalcomponents that that get the
most use that are that are goingto fail and have issues the most
and that you know fleets fleetsand drivers are in an
advantageous position as itrelates to tires because Drivers
(20:28):
have to do a pre-tripinspection.
There's no reason that during apre-trip inspection, a driver
shouldn't catch a tireviolation, whether it's
inadequate tread depth, a slashon a sidewall, or underinflated.
That seems to be one of the mostcommon issues that I saw doing
inspection were underinflatedtires, which can lead to equally
(20:49):
as severe issues with tirefailure as maybe a small slash
in a sidewall.
And then fleets on the fleetside, you know, monitoring your
DVIRs and monitoring whatviolations that your drivers are
noting with tire violations.
You know, what processes do youhave in place to help drivers
(21:13):
identify these violations,whether it be training, what's
your DVIR policy, and thenmonitoring.
preventative maintenance for thetires.
Obviously, you don't want to runthese things until they meet the
minimum standard.
Are those vehicles out there?
Yes, because tires areexpensive.
There are fleets that run themto the minimum standard.
However, in the long term, thatcan lead to some significant
(21:38):
issues.
Like I said, I was going to giveyou guys a story.
Back when I was still just afield trooper, I was working a
stretch of interstate and I waspatrolling on southbound on an
interstate direction and on thenorthbound side I could see a
tractor trailer coming and hewas maintaining his lane he was
just driving and all of a suddenI mean that quick he jerked to
(22:00):
the left and he crossed themedian and his tractor and
trailer rolled and and skidacross the southbound side of
the interstate and came to astop.
I mean, I stopped before thedust stopped, and as it turned
out through the investigation,we did figure out that he did
have a steer tire failure thatcaused him to jerk to the left
and hit the median, and then therest was history.
(22:22):
Fortunately, nobody was hurt inthat event.
I
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
think you hit on it that When you mentioned mileage,
the average set of car tiresprobably does 40,000 miles a
year.
But a truck might go 80,000 to125,000 miles a year.
Some of them, team operations,over 200,000 miles a year.
So tire tread depth, tireblowouts, that's a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
It really is.
Yeah, the steers tire alwaysscares me.
But the tire itself can do a lotof damage when it comes off the
trailer or the tread blows.
UNKNOWN (22:54):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
And I'm sure it's tough, because you're picking up
those trailers in random yards,and it's that pre-driven
inspection.
Most of the tire issues are outof service issues, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
I wouldn't say most of them, but there are certain
defects that will cause tires tobe placed out of service.
And the out of service criteriais very specific as it relates
to a steer axle tire versustires that are on duallys.
And, you know, what's the treaddepth in adjacent tread grooves
and how many locations aroundthe tire.
So, you know, the out of servicecriteria is definitely more
(23:33):
restrictive for steer axletires.
And then when you get intodually tires, there's some other
parameters that have to comeinto play for the tire to be
placed out of service.
So I guess my word of caution isIs any issue with a tire that
can cause a crash or contributeto a crash or result in a truck
breaking down on the side of theroad, fix it regardless of what
(23:55):
it is.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Well, and that can't be cheap to have somebody come
roadside at a roadsideinspection station to repair
your tires.
Probably better to pick that upwhen you're at a facility, I
would think.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Yeah, those mobile repair trucks, they're not
inexpensive, that's for sure.
Yeah, the equivalent of a
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
house call for expenses.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
It's probably something they should be doing
all the time, but this is kindof a good reminder to do it for
road check.
Is there something like amaintenance team should be
emphasizing for their driversduring this period to try to
instill some discipline or aregular check that they should
be doing?
Essentially, it's probably justa thorough DVIR and doing those
(24:36):
pre-trips and post-trips.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
Yeah, I think making sure your drivers...
you know, that they understandthat there are a lot of the time
to do this, right?
I mean, you know, the driversare required to do a pre-trip
inspection and they're requiredto do a post-trip inspection and
fill out paperwork if there aredefects noted throughout the
day, which was a change, youknow, that came in several years
(24:59):
ago.
What I encourage fleets to do ismake sure your drivers are doing
a thorough pre-trip inspection.
I know everybody is under thegun to get products from point A
to point B, and there'sscheduling issues, but it's
those pre-trip inspections thatcan identify issues before they
become a problem, and that'swhat we're trying to prevent.
(25:20):
And then at the end of the day,do your walk-around inspection,
and if there are defects, anyregulatory defects that you
note, then make sure that yourfleet people, your maintenance
folks understand what you'refinding on those uh post-trip
inspections
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
makes sense i mean aside from the you know the
inconvenience and cost andoperational impacts of a
roadside inspection do you thinkfleets really understand the
impact of their safety data andwhat that means to their
likelihood of being pulled in inthe future their likelihood of
potentially being audited orother implications you think
(25:58):
that's well understood
SPEAKER_00 (26:00):
I think it's well understood.
It's hard to say whether it's alarger interstate fleet or a
smaller interstate fleet or anintrastate fleet.
Who's better at understandingthat?
I think across the board, fleetsin general have an understanding
(26:21):
of what roadside violations cando to their safety scores.
But That's not everybody.
I mean, not everybodyunderstands the impacts of
roadside inspections or crashes,you know, as it relates to the
company's SMS and potential foran on-site investigation.
(26:46):
Yeah, Rob and
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
I had a guest on our podcast a while back that they
did a golden ticket and theywould place it in trailers in a
known inspection site.
and it would be have a monetaryvalue for them.
But I don't know if that's, youknow, shouldn't have to make a
game out of it, but I think itdoes make a good training tool
and it's kind of makes it up anevent and reminds the drivers to
(27:08):
make that, do that check and doit thoroughly.
So I don't
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
know.
I think it's a great idea.
And, you know, I, I want togive, I want to talk about the
positive statistics that cameout of 2024 road check for
anybody that's joining us.
So in 2024, uh, There werelittle over 42,000 inspections
done.
Here's where it's cool thatfleets and drivers are doing
(27:34):
what they're supposed to do.
So 77% of those vehiclesinspected, there was no out of
service.
Now there might've beenviolations, But no
out-of-service.
77%.
That's an astonishing number.
That's really high that didn'thave an out-of-service.
That's great.
And then on the driver's side,95.2% of the drivers didn't have
(28:00):
an out-of-service.
Now, again, that doesn't meanthere weren't violations, maybe
a form and manner or somethingin their ELD.
But again, not having anout-of-service.
So that tells me the industry istaking it seriously on their
side of what do we need to do tomake sure that we are complying
(28:20):
with these rules and regulationsand we're operating safely as
we're traveling down thehighways.
So that was actually a reallyencouraging percentages that I
found.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
What does happen if you get out of service?
What's that process?
Are they kind of stuck there or?
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
So let's talk about, we'll talk about violations.
And then I'll talk about out ofservice.
So if a violation is discoveredby an officer, again, they're
going to put that on a roadsideinspection.
Now, there may or may not be acitation issued to the driver
based off of the roadsideinspection violation.
(28:59):
When a driver or a vehicle meetsthe parameters in the CVSA out
of service criteria, The officerwill verify that and then either
place driver out of service atthe side of the road or vehicle
out of service at the side ofthe road.
Now, what that means for driversor vehicles, officers do have
(29:19):
some discretion based on thelocation of the stop.
Where is the vehicle out ofservice?
Is it safer to escort thisvehicle to a safer location to
where the repairs can be made?
Or are these defects egregiousenough, these out-of-service
defects egregious enough that atow truck needs to come out and
get the vehicle?
So there's a lot of fluidityinto how officers make their
(29:45):
decision of how anout-of-service defect is going
to be fixed.
The bottom line is if there's anout-of-service driver issue or
an out-of-service vehicle issue,It's the vehicles not being
moved for furtherance ofcommercial operations until
those violations get fixed.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
So any recommendations for what fleets
should be doing leading up tothe start of road check?
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
I think, you know, not even leading up to road
check.
I mean, I will address that, butI think fleets in general...
really need to to do a deep diveon what is their culture of
safety and what is the the bythe buy-in from the from the
drivers and everybody that'sinvolved in that culture of
safety all too often it's youknow there may be a policy put
(30:34):
in place but then there's nomeaningful action to follow
through with that policy ifthere's an issue so i think
first and foremost alwayscarriers need to be evaluating
their culture of safety andassessing, are we following
through with what we say we'regoing to follow through with?
As we move into road check, Iabsolutely would make sure that
(30:57):
your drivers understand thatthey potentially are going to be
inspected.
That inspection may take up toan hour, depending on the level
of inspection, violationsdiscovered, and they need to be
aware that that could affecttimely deliver of freight,
depending on the inspection.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
That's a good point.
Good point.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
I think in general, I think there's a lot you can be
doing as you get violations justin general.
If you get a tire violation,checking the DVIR for the, you
know, prior to that stop,checking the maintenance record
for that vehicle that you didget that tire.
I think there's a lot offollow-up you can be doing when
you do get a violation to makesure that you do something to
(31:41):
that vehicle.
could have corrected thatsituation.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Absolutely.
And, you know, and is it, youknow, we talked in the beginning
of the podcast about, you know,hours of service as another
focus of this year's road check.
You know, we can talk about whatthe driver's responsibilities
are, like to being able totransfer the information,
filling out your ELD, um,correctly, you know, no
falsification of records.
(32:05):
But I think it's also importantto mention on the fleet side,
you need to be aware of how yourELD provider software actually
works.
And what I mean by that is knowhow to use your provider's
software so that you canevaluate where are your drivers
working?
Are they hauling freight for youor are Are they picking up loads
(32:30):
and you don't know about itbecause you're not monitoring
their hours of service on theback end through the software?
So I think that's, and I've seenthat on compliance
investigations where a fleet hadimplemented ELDs, which they
were required to do, but we'renot really familiar with the
back end software to actuallysee how the ELD was being used.
(32:51):
So I think that's huge on thefleet side.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
and there's still some areas to audit and monitor,
right?
that the ELD can't doautomatically.
Obviously the on-duty notdriving time and making sure
those things are being managedproperly.
So you can't just rely on theELD.
There's a little bit of a auditprocess that they should be
doing too.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
Any final thoughts, what drivers might be wanting to
do specifically or fleets?
SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
Yeah, I mean, I...
Coming from enforcement,obviously, I did that for as
long as I did because I likedoing it.
Drivers are driving trucksbecause they like doing it.
Be ready to be inspected.
It's not a bad thing.
It's actually advantageous foryou as a driver because the
fewer violations you get on aroadside inspection mean the
(33:41):
fewer violations that apotential employer is going to
see if they're using thepre-employment screening
program.
On the fleet side, obviously youwant your trucks to have
inspections with no or minimalviolations because that just
enhances your safety scores inthe federal system.
That keeps a good symbioticrelationship with the driver of
(34:04):
the fleet of, hey, We want toget inspections.
However, we want to make surethat we're getting very, very
few violations on thoseinspections because those
inspections will affect yourcompany's safety scores,
depending on the egregiousness,without a doubt.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Any other questions, Rob?
You got any other questions?
SPEAKER_02 (34:27):
No, I think this is great advice straight from
somebody who's been on the frontlines of road check.
I think fleet should expect whatthis is billed as, which is a
blitz, right?
It's an inspection blitz, anenforcement blitz.
And so they should reasonablyexpect that they'll get pulled
in and inspected.
They should be prepared forthat, take steps to make sure
(34:47):
they've got everything in orderand support their own safety
scores by doing so.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
This is the time if you needinspections to get some
inspections done because formost jurisdictions, it's going
to be all hands on deck.
Yeah, indeed.
That's a good way to think ofit.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
It's positive.
If you can get some cleaninspections under your belt and
improve your CSA score a littlebit, that's a great opportunity
to do some training and just geteverybody on board and just a
good reminder for the fleets ingeneral.
UNKNOWN (35:19):
Thank you.
Welcome back to The Road Ahead.
On this episode, we're going totalk about Road Check 2025.
I'm super excited about this.
We got Rob Abbott, as usual, anda special guest, Todd James.
Rob, I was just curious, becausetoday at the mid-year ATA show,
I was the safety subcommittee.
I was like at that like It wasthe most exciting thing I've
(00:28):
ever been in.
When did you realize you were asafety nerd?
Because now I think I'mofficially a safety nerd.
Are you a safety nerd?
Yeah, we're going to put alittle
SPEAKER_02 (00:34):
tape around your glasses like that, like Elvis
Costello.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Yeah, I was like on the edge of my seat.
Are they going to allow, youknow, food testing and hair
testing or, you know, it was
SPEAKER_02 (00:45):
exciting
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Now, this conference that John and I are at, Todd, is
the ATA Mid-Year ManagementMeeting, and they had their
policy committees meeting, andso they met on safety issues,
and there was a lot to talkabout.
English language proficiency,road check, hair testing for
drugs, any number of things.
And we had someone from FMCSA,Larry Miner speaking, and a lot
(01:07):
of good questions about what toexpect next, which is anybody's
guess.
I
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
think there's going to be some interesting changes
coming here in the next month ortwo.
Interesting
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
as a word.
So our guest today for theRoadCheck 2025 episode is Todd
James.
So Todd, do you want to give usa little background on your
experience and expertise?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Sure.
Well, we'll just drive rightinto it.
Yeah, I'm Todd James.
I'm a program manager withDriveWise.
I am on the DriveWiseinfrastructure team.
side of the house.
I'm not on the fleet side.
What that means is I deal a lotwith government entities that
use our products for enforcementof commercial vehicle laws.
(01:50):
Why is that relative to me?
Well, I did 26 and a half yearswith the Colorado State Patrol.
I spent five years as a roadtrooper.
I spent five years as a motorcarrier safety trooper.
And then I promoted into a humansmuggling and human trafficking
task force.
And five years of that, I wentback into commercial motor
(02:13):
vehicles and finished out 11years as a sergeant on the
trooper side in the motorcarrier safety section.
And in that section, I wasactually responsible for
administering Colorado's CSAprogram.
I was also the new entrantsafety audit program manager for
(02:33):
a short time.
And I conducted my own roadsideinspections, compliance reviews,
post-crash inspections.
Got my feet wet in a little bitof legislation and was a
rulemaking person.
So yeah, I've got quite a robustexperience with commercial motor
vehicles.
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
So just a little bit of background about RoadCheck
2025, Todd.
It happens in U.S., Canada, andMexico.
Anything else to expand on howthat kind of works and what
people...
should know or do know aboutroad check?
Just a little background.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
I'll give kind of a satellite view.
So it's the Commercial VehicleSafety Alliance annual event.
It's a three-day event, like yousaid, John, across three
countries, Canada, the U.S., andMexico.
And for a lot of jurisdictions,it's an all-hands-on-deck
commercial vehicle enforcementoperation from coast to coast.
So drivers and fleets can expectincreased presence of commercial
(03:32):
vehicle inspectors.
not only from state and federalenforcement officers, but there
are county and cityjurisdictions that also enter
into memorandums ofunderstanding that may be
participating in Operation RoadCheck.
So it's a surge for enforcementofficials to basically conduct
(03:53):
as many inspections as they canfor a three-day time period.
And I've got a few statistics wecan talk about here when we get
to that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Todd, you know that That raises a question in my
mind.
So do you think, even thoughthey've been doing road check
for as long as I can remember,decades now, right, that, and
fleet should be aware of it, youknow, there are 14 million
commercial motor vehicles, butthey can only do three and a
half million inspectionsannually.
So vehicle inspections is not ascommon as one would think.
(04:22):
Do you think fleets reallyunderstand what road check is?
I mean, are they familiar withit now that it's been going on
for decades?
And do you think they understandwhat it is and that it's coming?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
That's an actually interesting question.
So I'm going to, I'm going toanswer that in two stages.
First of all, your interstatefleets, maybe your larger fleets
that are crossing state linesthat are more subject to a
roadside inspections at a fixedfacility, just because of the
nature of their business.
In my experience, those driversseem to be more prepared for,
(04:55):
for a road check.
Right.
When you start talking aboutintrastate commercial vehicle
operations that may notnecessarily cross a fixed
facility's operationalboundaries, those are the
drivers that may be moresurprised about road check just
because they're not crossing theinterstate boundaries like some
(05:18):
of the over-the-road vehicles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
All right.
They just don't encounter waystations or scales.
But they could this time.
For sure.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Do
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
you want to give us just a little, before we get
deep into the road check, just alittle background on the general
inspection, the 37-point, Ithink it is, inspection, and
maybe the different levels ofinspection?
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
Okay, yeah, so officers are going to conduct,
typically, there's three levelsof inspection that an officer is
going to conduct.
And these inspections arespecified by Commercial Vehicle
Safety Alliance.
So there's very specificinspection items as part of the
certified inspector required tobe checked on roadside
(06:02):
inspection.
So what inspectors are going todo, a typical level one
inspection is a full inspection.
And it's going to be the mosttime consuming.
And I'll kind of explain whatthat is.
Level 1 inspection is atop-to-bottom driver
credentialing inspection.
That includes the ELD, driver'slicense, medical card, skills
(06:23):
performance evaluation, ifapplicable, as well as
registration paperwork for thetruck.
And then it's a very in-depthmechanical inspection, a
walk-around inspection of theexterior of the vehicle, tires,
lights, brakes.
steering, wheels, couplingdevices.
And then the second component tothat would be an undercarriage
(06:46):
inspection where the officertakes a deeper look at the brake
system, how the brakes arefunctioning, proper brake
adjustment, the steering, thesuspension, and they're looking
for any frame defects.
And then the final inspectionitem would or at part of the
inspection would be loadsecurement.
(07:06):
So it's important to remembersafe loading.
So that's a typical level oneinspection.
And there are, like you said,John, there are 37 points.
Basically, it's all of theregulations out of part 395 and
393 that the drivers will bereally looking at for hours of
service and for mechanicalissues.
(07:29):
And then once a defect is noted,the inspector is going to place
that on a roadside inspection.
And they're going to verifywhether the identified defect
meets an out-of-servicecriteria.
And I'll explain what that ishere in just a minute.
The level two inspection isgoing to be all of the driver
credentialing, like I justexplained, and nothing will
change.
(07:50):
And the walk-around inspectionof the exterior of the vehicle,
looking at lighting, tires,visible brake components,
coupling devices.
Load securement, you know, framedefects.
and many hazardous materials.
And again, upon completion of alevel two inspection, the
officer will fill out anotherroadside safety inspection,
(08:12):
apply any out of servicecriteria as needed.
And the last thing that mostdrivers will encounter out there
is a level three inspection.
And what a level threeinspection is, is a
credentialing inspection.
So the officer is going to lookat ELD, CDL, medical cards,
skills performance valuations,hazardous shipping papers and
(08:36):
registrations for the vehicle.
So out of service criteria,let's talk about that.
So what I said was defects aregoing to be noted on the
roadside inspection and theofficer will apply the
Commercial Vehicle SafetyAlliance out of service criteria
to whatever defects theydiscover, whether it's a driver
issue or a mechanical defect.
(08:59):
And that out of service criteriawill tell the officer if the
observed defect meets anout-of-service criteria, and
very specific criteria, that thevehicle or driver will be placed
out of service until saiddefects are repaired.
So that's the CVSAout-of-service criteria.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
And Todd, during the inspection process, Are there
things that, you know, as aprofessional inspector, you
advise them to do for driversthat would make the process
easier, a little quicker?
Are there things that maybe theydo unwittingly that make it
longer and harder?
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
I think just a driver's being familiar with
first and foremost outside ofroad check.
Drivers just need to be familiarthat they potentially will be
inspected by a commercialvehicle inspector.
And just knowing that They areoperating in one of the most
regulated, if not the top two orthree most regulated industries
(10:03):
in the country.
That really speaks to some peaceof mind for the driver.
They just need to know thatthey're going to be inspected.
They are going to haveinteractions with law
enforcement.
It's not adversarial.
The law enforcement areenforcing regulatory guidelines
and state statutes that they'vebeen trained to enforce.
And it's all the enhancedcommercial vehicle safety.
(10:25):
It's not a...
there's not a culture of goingout and picking on a specific
motor carrier or a specificindustry.
It's impacting the industryholistically.
So familiarity for the drivers,understanding that these
inspections do take time and thenumber of defects discovered by
(10:47):
an officer will affect the timethe driver is tied up on the
roadside.
And if there are defects notedthat are out of service, the
driver's not going to be allowedto leave where the inspection is
only under very certainparameters.
On the fleet side, let me talk alittle bit about the fleets.
We talk a lot about the driversare the ones that are directly
(11:09):
impacted.
But on the fleet side, fleetsneed to understand that the road
check is going on and that theirfleets are obviously subject to
roadside inspections.
How does this impact on thefleet side?
be wary and understand thatthere are going to be more
officers out during this timeframe in more condensed areas
(11:32):
and more condensed time framesthat you may end up getting
inspected more frequently thanoutside of Operation Road Check.
So you've got to plan that intoyour route, your delivery times,
your pickup times.
Make sure your driversunderstand when they need to
rest and plan accordingly.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
That's great advice.
Anything common you see evenwith some of the bigger fleets
or well-run fleets that justyou're surprised when you see
them, the common slip-up or acommon issue?
SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
I think just even the top five defects that are
noted even on inspections areconsistent with larger fleets
all the way down to the singleone-person fleet.
Brakes always seem to be anissue as it relates to
mechanical inspections.
(12:25):
Lighting is always an issue.
And then tires, which is likethe number three violation,
actually that's a focus of thisyear's road check are tire
issues.
And that's just of all of theequipment that takes most of the
abuse, regardless of theindustry or the size of fleet,
(12:47):
seems to be the tires and thelighting that that seem to take
most of the abuse so that's imean obviously that's where you
see more and more of the defects
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
so todd you mentioned that it's one of the
emphases of bro check i thinkthere is two right so this year
it's tires and hours of servicecorrect yep so you know with our
service they're typically goingto be asking for an electronic
transfer of the uh the recordsof duty status from the ELD
system.
What are the biggest flagsyou're looking for?
(13:20):
Or as an inspector in yourcareer, what are the things that
really stand out to you that,hey, these are the sort of
things that are eye-popping tome when I'm pulling hours of
service records?
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
I think the first thing that drivers have to be
aware of, and this ties backinto...
Maybe expediting the inspectiona little bit.
Drivers have to be knowledgeableof how to transfer their ELD to
ERODs.
There's a lot of officers thatare not going to be patient with
that.
If the driver doesn't have theinstructions of how to do that,
(13:53):
that's going to show as aviolation on the roadside
inspection.
If there are not blank logbookpages as required by regulation,
that's going to show up on aninspection.
The federal system is...
very accurate at identifyingpotential violations that have
to be verified by enforcementofficers.
(14:14):
You know, I just cannotreiterate enough for folks that
are using ELDs that you have tounderstand what is personal
conveyance and Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So it sounds to me like the biggest red flags that
you would guide fleets on is,you know, you're going to be
asked for what's called a datatransfer from the ELD to the
officer.
And you better know what that isbefore you pull in, not get
there and fumble through, well,gee, I got a manual, let me read
it and figure it out, right?
They're going to be impatientfor that.
And then the second is if theysee in the last seven days that
(15:06):
you've used personal conveyance,there's going to be some
scrutiny on that to say, hey,were you, you know, using your
truck really in personalconveyance?
advance to go to a hotel or getsomething to eat?
Or were you really furtheringcommerce?
Were you moving in the directionof picking up your next load or
dropping off your next load?
So for you, those are the twobiggies,
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
huh?
Yeah.
And to tie into, you know, tothe ELD and personal conveyance,
you know, there's officers arealways looking at all of the
required information out of part395, you know, the 11 and 14,
60, 70 hour rule.
And their officers are very welltrained on looking for false
records of duty status.
(15:45):
There's a time in a driver's ELDwhere you may need to violate an
hours of service rule.
That just happens in thisindustry, that there is a rule
that may need to be violated.
Is it still a violation?
(16:05):
Absolutely it is.
Where it becomes a problem is ifthere's an intent to conceal
these violations.
And officers are very good atidentifying potential
concealment of hours of serviceregulations.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
Yeah.
So you'd rather see potentiallya violation with maybe a comment
explaining what happened ratherthan identifying where he's
falsified.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Absolutely.
You know, even on the roadsideinspection, looking at the
driver's ELD, and on thecompliance side of the house
through an intervention, I wouldprefer to see the violation as
it occurred than with a note,like you said, John, than an
intent to conceal the violation.
It just, concealing violationsjust never, it never works out.
(16:52):
Todd,
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
the other one.
Go ahead, Todd.
I was just going to say, we'retalking to fleets.
In addition to the personalconveyance, split sleeper seems
to be something that people maynot even allow their drivers to
use because it can be confusing,and sometimes it works against
the driver.
Do you check for that as well,or is it not as much of
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
a mistake?
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, rest requirements isalways a component of evaluating
the driver's ELD.
know and as we're talking abouthours of service i was thinking
about this you know we talk alot about elds and and drivers
that are subject to eld what weneed to be mindful on the
inspector side of the house onenforcement as well as on the
(17:35):
fleet side are exceptions to theeld for example um it used to be
100 air mile drivers that nowit's short haul drivers so
fleets and drivers that thatoperate and meet all of the
criteria specified in short hauloperations, as long as they meet
all of the criteria specified inthat exemption, they don't have
(17:55):
to run an ELD.
So there's a lot of fleets outthere that don't run ELDs and
they're not required to becausethey fall under the parameters
of an exemption.
But the fleets and drivers haveto understand what are those
provisions and are we followingthose provisions to the letter
of the law?
Because any deviation from thatthrows you back into needing an
(18:19):
ELD or a logbook for a specifictrip.
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
You know, you mentioned there were two
emphases or areas of emphasis,the hours of service, but also
tires.
Tires, I think, for thelayperson, that's a little
surprising because let's behonest, there was a time decades
ago before radial tires whereeverybody needed to know where
their spare was.
They needed to know how to jackup their car, how to change a
tire, right?
That's something you need toknow.
Now, some cars come without evena spare tire in them, and most
(18:47):
people wouldn't know where tofind the one they have.
So why is it with trucks we'respending time on tire
inspections?
Why is that relevant andimportant here?
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
Well, again, going back to what I said a little bit
ago, tires take a lot of abusein the freight system.
They're always running overthings.
You get a slash in a tire, thatbecomes a problem.
Look, the regulations are putinto place.
to enhance commercial vehiclesafety in the United States,
(19:21):
Canada, and Mexico.
And with tires, you know, theyare definitely more regulated
than a passenger vehicle.
And it's because of the sureamount of miles that are put on
these tires.
So again, that is...
That isn't another component ofthis year's road check.
It's hours of service and thefocus this year is on tires.
(19:44):
And I'll give you guys anexample of some tire issues that
I saw personally.
But like I said, I did pull somestatistical data as we were
preparing for the podcast.
And the top five violations thatare noted on roadside
inspections are hours ofservice, brakes, tires is the
third.
lights and then seat belts sooverall as violations identified
(20:06):
in all roadside inspectionstires is number three um again
it's it's it's those mechanicalcomponents that that get the
most use that are that are goingto fail and have issues the most
and that you know fleets fleetsand drivers are in an
advantageous position as itrelates to tires because Drivers
(20:28):
have to do a pre-tripinspection.
There's no reason that during apre-trip inspection, a driver
shouldn't catch a tireviolation, whether it's
inadequate tread depth, a slashon a sidewall, or underinflated.
That seems to be one of the mostcommon issues that I saw doing
inspection were underinflatedtires, which can lead to equally
(20:49):
as severe issues with tirefailure as maybe a small slash
in a sidewall.
And then fleets on the fleetside, you know, monitoring your
DVIRs and monitoring whatviolations that your drivers are
noting with tire violations.
You know, what processes do youhave in place to help drivers
(21:13):
identify these violations,whether it be training, what's
your DVIR policy, and thenmonitoring.
preventative maintenance for thetires.
Obviously, you don't want to runthese things until they meet the
minimum standard.
Are those vehicles out there?
Yes, because tires areexpensive.
There are fleets that run themto the minimum standard.
However, in the long term, thatcan lead to some significant
(21:38):
issues.
Like I said, I was going to giveyou guys a story.
Back when I was still just afield trooper, I was working a
stretch of interstate and I waspatrolling on southbound on an
interstate direction and on thenorthbound side I could see a
tractor trailer coming and hewas maintaining his lane he was
just driving and all of a suddenI mean that quick he jerked to
(22:00):
the left and he crossed themedian and his tractor and
trailer rolled and and skidacross the southbound side of
the interstate and came to astop.
I mean, I stopped before thedust stopped, and as it turned
out through the investigation,we did figure out that he did
have a steer tire failure thatcaused him to jerk to the left
and hit the median, and then therest was history.
(22:22):
Fortunately, nobody was hurt inthat event.
I
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
think you hit on it that When you mentioned mileage,
the average set of car tiresprobably does 40,000 miles a
year.
But a truck might go 80,000 to125,000 miles a year.
Some of them, team operations,over 200,000 miles a year.
So tire tread depth, tireblowouts, that's a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
It really is.
Yeah, the steers tire alwaysscares me.
But the tire itself can do a lotof damage when it comes off the
trailer or the tread blows.
UNKNOWN (22:54):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
And I'm sure it's tough, because you're picking up
those trailers in random yards,and it's that pre-driven
inspection.
Most of the tire issues are outof service issues, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
I wouldn't say most of them, but there are certain
defects that will cause tires tobe placed out of service.
And the out of service criteriais very specific as it relates
to a steer axle tire versustires that are on duallys.
And, you know, what's the treaddepth in adjacent tread grooves
and how many locations aroundthe tire.
So, you know, the out of servicecriteria is definitely more
(23:33):
restrictive for steer axletires.
And then when you get intodually tires, there's some other
parameters that have to comeinto play for the tire to be
placed out of service.
So I guess my word of caution isIs any issue with a tire that
can cause a crash or contributeto a crash or result in a truck
breaking down on the side of theroad, fix it regardless of what
(23:55):
it is.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Well, and that can't be cheap to have somebody come
roadside at a roadsideinspection station to repair
your tires.
Probably better to pick that upwhen you're at a facility, I
would think.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Yeah, those mobile repair trucks, they're not
inexpensive, that's for sure.
Yeah, the equivalent of a
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
house call for expenses.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
It's probably something they should be doing
all the time, but this is kindof a good reminder to do it for
road check.
Is there something like amaintenance team should be
emphasizing for their driversduring this period to try to
instill some discipline or aregular check that they should
be doing?
Essentially, it's probably justa thorough DVIR and doing those
(24:36):
pre-trips and post-trips.
SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
Yeah, I think making sure your drivers...
you know, that they understandthat there are a lot of the time
to do this, right?
I mean, you know, the driversare required to do a pre-trip
inspection and they're requiredto do a post-trip inspection and
fill out paperwork if there aredefects noted throughout the
day, which was a change, youknow, that came in several years
(24:59):
ago.
What I encourage fleets to do ismake sure your drivers are doing
a thorough pre-trip inspection.
I know everybody is under thegun to get products from point A
to point B, and there'sscheduling issues, but it's
those pre-trip inspections thatcan identify issues before they
become a problem, and that'swhat we're trying to prevent.
(25:20):
And then at the end of the day,do your walk-around inspection,
and if there are defects, anyregulatory defects that you
note, then make sure that yourfleet people, your maintenance
folks understand what you'refinding on those uh post-trip
inspections
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
makes sense i mean aside from the you know the
inconvenience and cost andoperational impacts of a
roadside inspection do you thinkfleets really understand the
impact of their safety data andwhat that means to their
likelihood of being pulled in inthe future their likelihood of
potentially being audited orother implications you think
(25:58):
that's well understood
SPEAKER_00 (26:00):
I think it's well understood.
It's hard to say whether it's alarger interstate fleet or a
smaller interstate fleet or anintrastate fleet.
Who's better at understandingthat?
I think across the board, fleetsin general have an understanding
(26:21):
of what roadside violations cando to their safety scores.
But That's not everybody.
I mean, not everybodyunderstands the impacts of
roadside inspections or crashes,you know, as it relates to the
company's SMS and potential foran on-site investigation.
(26:46):
Yeah, Rob and
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
I had a guest on our podcast a while back that they
did a golden ticket and theywould place it in trailers in a
known inspection site.
and it would be have a monetaryvalue for them.
But I don't know if that's, youknow, shouldn't have to make a
game out of it, but I think itdoes make a good training tool
and it's kind of makes it up anevent and reminds the drivers to
(27:08):
make that, do that check and doit thoroughly.
So I don't
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
know.
I think it's a great idea.
And, you know, I, I want togive, I want to talk about the
positive statistics that cameout of 2024 road check for
anybody that's joining us.
So in 2024, uh, There werelittle over 42,000 inspections
done.
Here's where it's cool thatfleets and drivers are doing
(27:34):
what they're supposed to do.
So 77% of those vehiclesinspected, there was no out of
service.
Now there might've beenviolations, But no
out-of-service.
77%.
That's an astonishing number.
That's really high that didn'thave an out-of-service.
That's great.
And then on the driver's side,95.2% of the drivers didn't have
(28:00):
an out-of-service.
Now, again, that doesn't meanthere weren't violations, maybe
a form and manner or somethingin their ELD.
But again, not having anout-of-service.
So that tells me the industry istaking it seriously on their
side of what do we need to do tomake sure that we are complying
(28:20):
with these rules and regulationsand we're operating safely as
we're traveling down thehighways.
So that was actually a reallyencouraging percentages that I
found.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
What does happen if you get out of service?
What's that process?
Are they kind of stuck there or?
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
So let's talk about, we'll talk about violations.
And then I'll talk about out ofservice.
So if a violation is discoveredby an officer, again, they're
going to put that on a roadsideinspection.
Now, there may or may not be acitation issued to the driver
based off of the roadsideinspection violation.
(28:59):
When a driver or a vehicle meetsthe parameters in the CVSA out
of service criteria, The officerwill verify that and then either
place driver out of service atthe side of the road or vehicle
out of service at the side ofthe road.
Now, what that means for driversor vehicles, officers do have
(29:19):
some discretion based on thelocation of the stop.
Where is the vehicle out ofservice?
Is it safer to escort thisvehicle to a safer location to
where the repairs can be made?
Or are these defects egregiousenough, these out-of-service
defects egregious enough that atow truck needs to come out and
get the vehicle?
So there's a lot of fluidityinto how officers make their
(29:45):
decision of how anout-of-service defect is going
to be fixed.
The bottom line is if there's anout-of-service driver issue or
an out-of-service vehicle issue,It's the vehicles not being
moved for furtherance ofcommercial operations until
those violations get fixed.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
So any recommendations for what fleets
should be doing leading up tothe start of road check?
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
I think, you know, not even leading up to road
check.
I mean, I will address that, butI think fleets in general...
really need to to do a deep diveon what is their culture of
safety and what is the the bythe buy-in from the from the
drivers and everybody that'sinvolved in that culture of
safety all too often it's youknow there may be a policy put
(30:34):
in place but then there's nomeaningful action to follow
through with that policy ifthere's an issue so i think
first and foremost alwayscarriers need to be evaluating
their culture of safety andassessing, are we following
through with what we say we'regoing to follow through with?
As we move into road check, Iabsolutely would make sure that
(30:57):
your drivers understand thatthey potentially are going to be
inspected.
That inspection may take up toan hour, depending on the level
of inspection, violationsdiscovered, and they need to be
aware that that could affecttimely deliver of freight,
depending on the inspection.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
That's a good point.
Good point.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
I think in general, I think there's a lot you can be
doing as you get violations justin general.
If you get a tire violation,checking the DVIR for the, you
know, prior to that stop,checking the maintenance record
for that vehicle that you didget that tire.
I think there's a lot offollow-up you can be doing when
you do get a violation to makesure that you do something to
(31:41):
that vehicle.
could have corrected thatsituation.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Absolutely.
And, you know, and is it, youknow, we talked in the beginning
of the podcast about, you know,hours of service as another
focus of this year's road check.
You know, we can talk about whatthe driver's responsibilities
are, like to being able totransfer the information,
filling out your ELD, um,correctly, you know, no
falsification of records.
(32:05):
But I think it's also importantto mention on the fleet side,
you need to be aware of how yourELD provider software actually
works.
And what I mean by that is knowhow to use your provider's
software so that you canevaluate where are your drivers
working?
Are they hauling freight for youor are Are they picking up loads
(32:30):
and you don't know about itbecause you're not monitoring
their hours of service on theback end through the software?
So I think that's, and I've seenthat on compliance
investigations where a fleet hadimplemented ELDs, which they
were required to do, but we'renot really familiar with the
back end software to actuallysee how the ELD was being used.
(32:51):
So I think that's huge on thefleet side.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
and there's still some areas to audit and monitor,
right?
that the ELD can't doautomatically.
Obviously the on-duty notdriving time and making sure
those things are being managedproperly.
So you can't just rely on theELD.
There's a little bit of a auditprocess that they should be
doing too.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
Any final thoughts, what drivers might be wanting to
do specifically or fleets?
SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
Yeah, I mean, I...
Coming from enforcement,obviously, I did that for as
long as I did because I likedoing it.
Drivers are driving trucksbecause they like doing it.
Be ready to be inspected.
It's not a bad thing.
It's actually advantageous foryou as a driver because the
fewer violations you get on aroadside inspection mean the
(33:41):
fewer violations that apotential employer is going to
see if they're using thepre-employment screening
program.
On the fleet side, obviously youwant your trucks to have
inspections with no or minimalviolations because that just
enhances your safety scores inthe federal system.
That keeps a good symbioticrelationship with the driver of
(34:04):
the fleet of, hey, We want toget inspections.
However, we want to make surethat we're getting very, very
few violations on thoseinspections because those
inspections will affect yourcompany's safety scores,
depending on the egregiousness,without a doubt.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Any other questions, Rob?
You got any other questions?
SPEAKER_02 (34:27):
No, I think this is great advice straight from
somebody who's been on the frontlines of road check.
I think fleet should expect whatthis is billed as, which is a
blitz, right?
It's an inspection blitz, anenforcement blitz.
And so they should reasonablyexpect that they'll get pulled
in and inspected.
They should be prepared forthat, take steps to make sure
(34:47):
they've got everything in orderand support their own safety
scores by doing so.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
This is the time if you needinspections to get some
inspections done because formost jurisdictions, it's going
to be all hands on deck.
Yeah, indeed.
That's a good way to think ofit.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
It's positive.
If you can get some cleaninspections under your belt and
improve your CSA score a littlebit, that's a great opportunity
to do some training and just geteverybody on board and just a
good reminder for the fleets ingeneral.
UNKNOWN (35:19):
Thank you.
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