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July 25, 2025 70 mins

This week, we dive deeper into the roots of Scotland’s brutal witch trials, beginning with the life and paranoia of King James VI. We explore how his personal fears and political ambitions led to the Witchcraft Act of 1563, setting the stage for centuries of persecution. We also examine the cruel invention of the Scold’s Bridle—also known as the branks—a tool of public shaming and forced silence used to control and humiliate outspoken women.

These instruments of misogyny weren’t just symbolic—they were real weapons in the war against women's wrath and autonomy.

🖤 Be sure to check out our blog for references, further reading, and sources that inspired this episode.

✨ Join us next time as we continue our exploration of the history of hysteria, diving into the Victorian era and beyond.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
exodus 22 18 thou shall not suffer a witch to live
welcome back to part two ofwrath the demonization of
women's rage and sexuality wherewe're going to be taking a look
at the scottish witch trials andaround some of the kind of
punishments and stuff that werearound during that time period

SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
Exciting stuff.
Managed to get rid of thatdeflated feeling from last time.
Had a wee break.
Think that was well needed.

SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
Yep.
Just wait.
Another cheery episode.
But with a lot of stuff that Ihaven't heard before, which was
always good.

SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
Excellent.
Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
So, in...
Preparation for this partly, butalso because I've been following
them for a while and theirstuff's cool and it was a nice
way to support them.
I bought Claire Mitchell and ZoeVenditosi's new book, How to
Kill a Witch, a guide for thepatriarchy.
The book itself is covered bytheir Witches of Scotland tartan

(01:10):
that they got registered earlierthis year.
Each part of the tartanrepresents a different thing
surrounding the witch trials,including the aims of their
organisation.
So the black and grey representthe dark times and the ashes of
those who were persecuted.
Pink and red signify the legaltape that bound the fate of

(01:30):
those accused and reminds us ofthe systems that still need
challenging.
The white check is formed ofthree threads, standing for the
campaign's three aims.
Pardon, apology, memorial.
This was the group that kind ofmanaged to get an

SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
apology for the...

SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
From Nicola Sturgeon.
From Nicola Sturgeon, yeah, afew years ago.
I believe it was like the firstin the world where it had kind
of been recognised as, you know,like something that the
government was responsible forand therefore needed to kind of
put out a formal apology, whichis really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
So the book provides like a kind of rich tapestry of
the kind of facts and figures ofthe day while taking some of the
stories that we have and kind offictionalising them and making
them more...
kind of personal to follow, likejust kind of filling in the
gaps.

SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Ah, it's quite an interesting sort of structure
for a book, not one I've seenbefore, the way that there's
that kind of blend of like sortof fictionalised stories and,
you know, sort of factualaccounts and things as well to
kind of really form quite a deepunderstanding of how things were

(03:05):
and the sort of feelings at thetime.

SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Yeah.
I think this is why this, like,it was quite a hard read for me,
do you know, I had to stop quitea few times because I just, do
you know, it didn't feel likereading a history book.
No.
No at all.
It felt like reading a diary ina lot of senses and that you
were getting, like, I don'tknow, the kind of start of the
book laying out the kind of, theculture and the vibe and stuff

(03:29):
and you kind of get into theheadspace of what it was like to
exist in the times and, like,why people were doing the things
they were.

SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
Aye, it seems like quite an immersive experience
into that kind of world.
More so than you would get justfrom a sort of factual text.

SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Yeah.
Aye, definitely worth a read.
So the scene was set forwitchcraft to become illegal in
Scotland when Henry VIII gotbored of his wife.

SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
Ah,

SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
right.
His want for freedom from thechurch's influence in both his
country and his personal lifeled to Catholicism being made
illegal in Scotland.
Previous to this, witchcraft andsorcery were a part of everyday
life within Scotland.
They were performed most notablyby the local priests as a way of

(04:20):
making extra income.
Magic and religion were pals atthis point.

SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
What kind of stuff would...
would that have included?

SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
So there was loads of different types of magicians.
There was service magicians whotraded in practical magic.
Kind of like some of the stuffwe were saying about finding
something that was lost or stuffthat took a bit of divine
intervention.
Or kind of luck, essentially, tohelp them on their way towards.

(04:54):
There was charmers or chirmerswho who sold charms that were
enchanted for different purposesso like love tokens or stuff to
help people on their journeys ora lot like there's still a lot
of that within catholicism todayin terms of like all the
different saints and the kind ofcharms like the different saints

(05:15):
attached to different likethings like traveling or yeah
yeah very much along the linesof that so this was like that
but with like a kind of bit ofmagic thrown in

SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
A

SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
lot of the same practices that we came to see
today.
Then there was cunning folk whodid more ritual or ceremonial
magic that followed more recipesand stuff.
So that would have been yourconcoctions and potions as well
as summoning sprites to helpyou, I don't know, have a good

(05:52):
harvest or

SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
whatever.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
A bit like prayers, a bit like wishes, like it was
just kind of going to your localservice person for a helping
hand with whatever kind ofmenial thing that you needed.

SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Ah yeah, I mean so far none of this is sounding
particularly untoward, like it'sall very, it does all feel, you
know, pretty mundane.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
it was very mundane, it was just a part of everyday
life really, like...

SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
It just feels like it was a threat to the monopoly
of prayer and the standards setout by the Protestant version of
Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
I feel like it probably went quite hand-in-hand
with the Catholic...
What's the name again?
The one where you pay to cleansethe sins?
Indulgencies.
Indulgencies,

SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
that's it.
Indulgencies, that's the one.

SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
There was a lot of superstition, there was a lot of
tradition in the way thatpeople, some of it still exists
today.
Do you know even like appleduking at Halloween, like
originally it was for unmarriedwomen to see compatibility of
their engagement?

(07:14):
Alright.
So how many attempts it took toactually bite that apple?
represented how compatible thepotential marriage was.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
So there was just things like this that were just
accepted, that were woventhrough everyday life, and there
were different people within thecommunity that you could go to
for services attached to that.
And it was never a full-timerole, so it tended to be people
doing things on the side, likeas a kind of side hustle,
essentially.
Yeah.
Including the priests.

(07:49):
Because who better to go to?
Magic was seen as divine.
It was seen as part of religion.
It wasn't a separate entity.

SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
It certainly makes more sense than being this thing
that's kind of in opposition toreligion and the divine.
That it's sort of they were kindof hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
It makes sense as well when you think about how
when Christianity goes to newplaces it kind of tends to bring
with it or incorporate into itaspects of the culture that
already existed there and magiccame from paganism.
So a lot of the beliefs andfaiths and things that people

(08:30):
had within the pagan religionkind of

SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
got

SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
absorbed by Christianity and Catholicism so
that these beliefs could stillbe upheld but then became under
the church's control rather thanbeing this other thing.
People could still live theirlives and have their daily
habits and do the things thatthey always did, but just under

(08:55):
the banner of Christianity.

SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Aye, that's the kind of standard playbook for the
expansion of Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
To the point even the priests were doing it.
Aye, this is why we'll come tothis a bit later on, but they
were really specific about thetypes of witchcraft that were
made illegal.
Very much like a legal documentin all the jargon.
There was necromancy and allthese different things were all

(09:31):
included in that documentbecause there were so many
different services that cameunder the kind of magical
umbrellas.

SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
And were some of them sort of kept untouched,
some of them were sort ofsanctioned by the church that
yeah, that's still fine.

SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
This is speculation on my part but because the law
was so clear that it wasn't justperforming the things but also
having knowledge of them, thatprobably having knowledge of any
of the surrounding stuff couldlead you to suspicion of having
knowledge of.
Like you didn't even need toactively be caught as such.

(10:10):
They had to prove it.
And they proved it by torturingyou until you confessed.
So, it probably wasn't worth therisk.
Folklore and magic wereingrained and interwoven with
religion at the time, andregular folks actively believed
in magic and superstition.
This change of religion alsobrought about a change in
attitudes about magic, with manyof the practices being banned

(10:33):
and punished due to the holdCatholicism still had on the
nation.
So, this is where...
this kind of intertwinedness ofmagic and Catholicism became
magic's downfall with the kindof introduction of the
Protestant religion and the needto kind of wipe out all traces
of Catholicism within thepeople.

(10:55):
Therefore, not only wasCatholicism made illegal, but so
was magic and the kind ofpractices surrounding it as a
way to really stamp it

SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
out.
Because, again, what better wayto frighten people out of
opposing the sort of dominantflavour of religion than putting
their life on the line.
You know, you could be killed ifyou are practising Catholicism

(11:25):
that just has that wee bit kindof witchy flair that we don't
like.
It'd be much safer to just comeand be a Protestant.
So

SPEAKER_01 (11:36):
because of this in 1563...
the Witchcraft Act was born,which states anyone using magic,
having the knowledge of it, orbuying magical services will be
put to death.
So even people just buying theservices were at risk of death.
Quite extreme.
Quite an extreme shift.
But that's how you changesomething really quickly.

SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Make it

SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
legal.
Aye, with such a severepunishment.

SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
Yeah.
So the Witchcraft Act...
which came into place on the 4thof June 1563.
The Queen and her Estates inthis present Parliament having
been informed that several typesof heavy and abominable
superstition are being used bythe subjects of this realm, that
being witchcraft, sorcery andnecromancy, and credence is

(12:25):
being given thereto, as was inbygone times, against the laws
of God, for the avoiding andputting away of all this vain
superstition in times to come.
It is put into stature, andordained by Her Majesty the
Queen and her estates, that nomanner of person or persons, of
whatever estate, degree, orcondition they may be of, take

(12:48):
upon hand in any timeshereinafter to use any manner of
witchcraft, sorcery, ornecromancy, not to give
themselves further to have anycraft or have knowledge of it,
thereby abusing the people ofthe realm.
Nor should anyone seek any help,response or consultation from
any users or abusers of theaforesaid witchcraft, sorcery or

(13:10):
necromancy under the pain ofdeath as much as to be executed
against the user and abuser asthe seeker of the response or
consultation.
So, very wordy, very jargony,very legal sounding.
But, it's basically as I saidthat it was...

(13:31):
anybody who is doing witchcraftor sorcery or necromancy.
So witchcraft was specificallyspells to harm others.

SPEAKER_00 (13:39):
Right,

SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
right, okay.
Sorcery was like what I kind ofmentioned before, like if you
were doing any kind of ritualmagic, which kind of I think
became a bit of an umbrella termfor any of the kind of usual
services that people used.
or necromancy, which wasspecifically, like, convening

(14:02):
with the dead, which was anotherservice that I think was still
not totally, like, agreeable toeverybody, even.
So

SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
was that more sort of what we today would kind of
think of as, like, what, like,psychic mediums and stuff do,
rather than, like, the sort of,like...
fantasy version of necromancywhich is like raising the dead
and like

SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
I think the reason why the fantasy went out from my
understanding because it becameillegal they kind of looked upon
it as disturbing the dead, youknow like the dead are in
heaven, like they're at peace,like if you're bringing them
back to speak to them, you'rebringing them back and that's
where that kind of like

SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
It's kind of taken that figurative way of speaking
about it and made it literal.

SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
I think the kind of rise of evangelists and stuff
like that probably was takenliterally.
They probably seen it as youripping them out of heaven and
hell.
Either of which wouldn't getlooked upon kindly just to chat
to them.
Do you know what I mean?
But I think what it probablywould have been closer to would
have been what spiritualspiritualist churches and stuff

(15:23):
would be like today.
Where people go and have thechance to speak to loved ones
and stuff like that.
I don't know, I feel terriblebecause as much as I feel like
there's a ringy truth in allthis stuff, the spiritual medium
stuff gives me the fear.
Especially when they're famous.
It just feels like a con.

UNKNOWN (15:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Whereas when it's in a local church and it's just
everyday folk, I don't know, itdoesn't have that same grifter-y
vibe to

SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
it.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
yeah.
Aye, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I think there certainly does feel like a
grifter-y vibe when it is big,famous people on the telly.
Aye.
Aye, there's something aboutthat that just doesn't sit right
with me.

SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
So, the Queen of Scotland at this point kind of
problematically remainedCatholic.
And, well, she still held ontoher throne for a wee while.
She was what were gunning forher.
She was the toe in the line.
She kind of managed to evadeconsequences long enough to have
a kid.

(16:34):
James VI.
She was eventually capturedafter supposedly having her
husband murdered And then Marionis murderer.
There's a whole other storythere with her that's not as
simple as that, but...

SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
The world of convoluted royal drama.

SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Like, she ended up gettingcaptured by her cousin and
spending the rest of her life inprison before she was executed,
so...
But I'm pretty sure she managedto escape at one point, and
there was a whole thing there,but...
Anyway, we're...
segue in.

SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
I mean, it hasn't really got much less complicated
than the modern day, do youknow?

SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
So, when she was executed, this left her young
son, who I think was only liketwo or three at the time, an
orphan.
Because his dad had obviouslybeen murdered, apparently by
her.
Not an easy start to life, didwee Jamesy boy have.
No,

SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
that sounds pretty rough, but I mean...
still royal so like aye

SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
he was really royal because not only was he the heir
to the Scottish throne butbecause of all the royal
inbreeding he was the greatgreat great grandson of Henry
VIII of England meaning that hewas also in line a few times
removed I think at this pointthere was other people that were

(18:06):
older that would get in firstbut little He was definitely
going to end up on the throne.
It was on the horizon for him aswell.
Aye, so wee James grew up anorphan.
And also a king, which is aweird...
Like, they things feel liketotal ends of the economic
spectrum to me.

SPEAKER_00 (18:27):
So what age was he when he became king then?

SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
So he was like...
Is it regent?
Or there was people that werekind of put in place to kind of
cover for

SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
him.
Right, to sort of rule in hisstead until he was old enough.
Is that regent?

SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Is that the term for it?
I kind of remember.
Aye, so there was people thatwere kind of supervising the
realm until he came of age.
And then I think he was 13 or 14when he became king.
So still pretty fucking young.
But he was three.
He was three when his mum died.

SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Or was killed.
So for that sort of like...
10-11 years there was peoplehelping him

SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
and obviously the reformation was in full swing by
this point so quite a lot of thepeople that were surrounding him
and also in charge of thecountry were really in with the
protestant church including thesix johns which is fucking
hilarious I love how I don'tknow it's just a great name it's

(19:31):
so uninventive but it just doeswhat it says on the tin Aye.
So one of the six Johns, JohnKnox, who kind of wrote the book
on Protestantism in Scotland,was the kind of main figurehead,
like a father figure to him assuch, was even the one who

(19:51):
coronated him when he becameking.
So he was kind of in his year,had his year, throughout his
childhood.

SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Imagine a young boy with no parents, would they have
been quite impressionable tothese people round about them as
I was growing up

SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
You would think but from one of the rabbit holes
that I went in that I'm notgoing into everyone today with
that in this episode because mygod that was a bit of me
procrastinating but it wasinteresting I was reading about
how one of his other kind ofadvisors was very much like of

(20:33):
the opinion that the ruler wasfor the people and like he had
been like no democracy as suchbut like about how a good ruler
like the values and morals of agood ruler were that of like
subordination to the people andmaking decisions like for the
people but he was very much ofthe nah like God put me here

(20:55):
like God's chosen me like I havelike the divine right of the
king So it seemed like it was awee bit of a wee shit in terms
of like, he did listen but hekind of still found his own way
through it.
He still very much had thatattitude of like, I'm the king.
I decide.
Aye,

SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
I mean, I feel like it would be hard to grow up with
that much power and not kind ofgo a wee bit crazy with it.

SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
Aye.
Like, you can see some of theirinfluence through some of the
decisions that he madethroughout his life.
Like, he didn't just no listen,but he still very much, he still
somehow seemed to have a lot ofkind of inner confidence and,
like...

SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
Aye.
I more mean that just, like,they would have been quite
influential on his beliefs.
Very much so.
Very much so.
And, you know, they would havebeen quite selective about what
they presented to him.

SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
Yeah.
Especially since they wereruling in his stead.
They were well aware thatdecisions that they made could
be undone if the situationwasn't handled in a certain way.

SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah, so John Knox also published another work
called The First Blast of theTrumpet Against the Monstrous
Regiment of Women.
Which is a moothfay.

UNKNOWN (22:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
I'm guessing this guy was a big fan of women then.

SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Oh yeah.
This was a work that wasbasically an attack of all the
female monarchs at the time andfemales of prominent positions
in the clergy elsewhere becausethey thought that women in power
went against God's will.
Women being in all ways inferiorand perfect versions of men.

(22:47):
Where have we heard that before?
I

SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
mean, it's kind of still a surviving...
thing until or I until kind offairly recently it was sort of
quite a dominant

SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
I mean it still is let's be honest like in a

SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
lot of especially like in religion and stuff it's
only been fairly recently thatyou know the catholic church and
stuff has allowed women to be inthe kind of higher positions in
the church and stuff so

SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
they were shutting to it then laughing so James
being God's envoy on earth andhe's divine right as king was
absolutely terrified of thedevil and was on the lookout for
him at every turn becauseobviously him being God's chosen

(23:41):
meant that the devil he was thedevil's ultimate enemy I can see
that line of thinking man wasconvinced that like he was enemy
number one.
So he spent his full life kindof waiting on proof of this.
Because I can see that itwouldn't have just been proof of

(24:03):
the devil, it would have beenproof that he was God's chosen.
Aye,

SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
that would have been quite sort of validating for him
that

SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
aye,

SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
this is definitely God's chosen you know, if he was
to see proof of that it would belike Proof of God and proof of
his right.
He would be

SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
untouchable.
Yeah.
So his fears proved true when hewas set to marry the Danish
princess but found her journeythwarted by bad weather at every
turn.
So this was the work of thedevil.
Naturally.
Keeping this marriage fromhappening.

(24:45):
Because it was politicalinfluence and all the ties
attached.
This was going to be...
World-breaking.

SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yep, they were going to be so influential that the
devil had to make the weatherbad to stop them getting
married.

SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
Denmark's own witchcraft hunt was in full
swing at this time, so naturallythe bad weather was blamed on
witches.
And the devil, but through hisconduit, the witches.

SPEAKER_00 (25:13):
Yep, so the devil was telling witches to make the
weather bad.

SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Yep.
sending their wee demons inbarrels.
Sailing the waves on civs.
This was like a thing.
Like a really common thing.
They thought like witches purelike went in the water on civs.
Like big massive people sizedcivs.

SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
I mean I get that that's like a sort of like an
unnatural Yeah I think that wasthe Civs full of holes should be
letting the water in andshouldn't be able to to float
but

SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
it's just a funny image like it pure feels like
pure pastafarianism and likecolanders on their head like
vibes I don't know can we leavethe kitchen equipment out of it

SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
I mean, it's another one of these solidifying the
idea that it's women.

SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
Things today with women.
I've never...
Flying on brooms.
Fucking sailing on sieves.
This is actually...
Oh my god.
This is awful.
This is like buying your wife ahoover for her Christmas.
I have never twigged on thatbefore.

(26:37):
That's wild.
There's obviously the pagan-yassociation with the broom as
well, which is why I've nevermade that...

SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
It's taking having a few more examples out there that
it's like...

SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Domestic duty fucking equipment.
Is the guy equivalent to trafficcones and shit?

SPEAKER_00 (26:57):
He'd be flying about in a shovel.

SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
A big fucking hammer.
So, they attempted thisjourney...
from Denmark to Scotland a fewtimes and they kind of went
missing for a time.
They had to send out messengersand try and work out where their
ship had went and it turned outit had landed in Oslo, Norway.

(27:22):
So at this point James was like,fuck this.
I'm going to go.
I'm going to go and meet them.
I'm sick of waiting.
This needs to happen.
So he took his ships and hesailed to Norway, where he met
up with the princess, PrincessAnne.
And they got married and theyhad their honeymoon in Oslo.

SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Destination wedding.

SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
So the newlyweds stayed for a number of months
and while they were there,witchcraft was the talk of the
town.
It was all anybody could speakabout.
The town was abuzz with it.
There was witch trials currentlybeing heard in Trier and a
pamphlet from these trials...
had made its way to Jamesbecause it was being distributed

(28:07):
throughout Norway at this time.
So this was all he was fuckingneeding, really.
It

SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
was primed and ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
Actual witch propaganda on a plate in front
of him.
He devoured that.
He even took it back to Scotlandwith him.
Which is why there's a record ofit.
He was obsessed with this thing.
It was probably all dog-earedand that Like, from just, like,
sitting in bed and reading it atnight, just, like, shaking.
Probably had, like, annotationsand bits underlined.

(28:43):
Either that or it was pristine.
You know, one of the two keptin, like, one of the wee little
cases.
Aye, so they kind of waited thewinter out and in the springtime
of 1590 they headed back toScotland and faced a bout of
fierce weather.
On the return journey.

(29:04):
Which obviously was witchesagain.

SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Must have been.
No other explanation.

SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
It's not just that this is a bad crossing area.
I don't get why that was never.
Maybe we should go a differentway.
Or something.
Maybe we should go duringsummer.
When it's not as bad weather.

SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
Take a wee road trip down to France.
And cross that way.

SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Though they had a seemingly good marriage.
Rumours that James'srelationship with his male
favourites ran rampant.
So I did a wee bit of readinginto this and I'm fully
convinced that James was atleast bi.

SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
This is something that I've heard some bits and
pieces about and I think seensome kind of jokes and comedy
sketches and stuff to sort of...
that kind of covered thissituation.

SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
Yeah.
The reason why I think this isrelevant is because for me, I
don't know, he just seemed tohate women.
This seemed to be a lot of whatwas going on with this.

SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
Well, I mean, with John Knox as a childhood
influence, I wouldn't besurprised.

SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Between that and probably growing up with
everybody talking shit about hisma and her being a Catholic.

SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
You can see how he must have been so conflicted as
a wee kid about who to sidewith.
Do you know what I mean?
Because he probably wouldn'tremember his mum.
I can't really imagine being inthat situation, but it couldn't
have been easy.
It makes sense why it's leftroom for some fucking hatred to
grow somewhere and be directedat somebody.

(30:46):
And I think in this case, it'sjust went to women in general.
As much as he was rushing to gethis wife, that was a political
move.

SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
Yeah, that's like something that is expected of a
king.
They were never ever marryingfor love.
It was always

SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
beneficial to the nations.
So, back in Denmark, the seacaptain of the voyage, who had
been getting a lot of flack forall this fucking about.
They're like, mate, you had onejob and you couldn't even do it.
The king has had to come hiscell.
To come and pick the princessup.
So he was getting a lot of shit.

(31:34):
For everybody.
And he was like nah mate it'snot me.
Of course it wasn't him.
He kind of just put his fuckinghands up and be like.
Probably shouldn't have sailed.
Probably should have like.
Did something

SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
different.
I've failed in my duties as acaptain.

SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Aye.
So even though this full timehe's been blaming the witches.
He's seen an opportunity.
To make some money out of this.

UNKNOWN (31:55):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
So the Ministry of Finance, who was in charge of
the kind of budgets for theRoyal Navy and the fleet of
ships, he pointed the finger athim.
And he actually sued him.
And he was like, mate, you nevergave us enough money for these
ships.
They're all in disrepair.
That's why this has happened.
It's not me at all.
And the Ministry of Finance hasseen his opportunity to go...

(32:20):
But I...
No.
No.
It's not me, it's the witches.
Of course.
They're just the scapegoat forfucking everything.
Including people, like, notwanting their jobs and
reputations to be at stake.
Yeah.
It was an easy out.
So, it just so happened thatthere was a witch trial going on
in Copenhagen.

(32:42):
So he travelled there and hespoke to the mayor.
And he was like, see that woman,Anne Coldins, that you've got in
at the moment?
Yeah.
Connie asked her if it was herthat fucked with all the ships
and caused this issue withgetting the princess out of
Scotland.
And lo and behold, again undertorture, she confessed.

(33:03):
Nine people, nine women, werekilled for this.
Nineteen women.

SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
Nineteen women, ah.
They were the cause of thejourney being...

SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Under questioning, a.k.a.
torture, they all confessed...
to no only having a plot to sinkthe ships, but also to all
heading down to the beachtogether and putting demons in
barrels and sending them outinto the water.
I don't know what they weregoing to do.
This is a bit like...
I don't know.
How does...
Do they make the bad weather amushroom?

SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Must do.
Must do.
What?

SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
So, they were all found guilty and executed.

SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
And...
Did that help?

UNKNOWN (33:48):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
I mean...
No?

SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
But bad weather still happened after that.
It helped the captain in the

SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Ministry of Finance.
I mean, it didn't help thecaptain because he didn't get
his money.
He was probably raging.

SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
The lengths that they go to to shift the blame
is...
Or to avoid having the blamepinned on them.
I

SPEAKER_01 (34:13):
mean, it's still the same these days.
Like, we've spoken about thisbefore.
You cannae pick up a paper...
without seeing who thescapegoats are.
And it shifts all the time.
But there's always somebody tobe blamed.
Always.
It just seems to be a part ofwhat keeps society...
I don't even want to sayfunctioning, but it seems to

(34:35):
be...
There's just been this thingforever.

SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
There's always got to be somebody to blame.
But it wasn't me.

SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
Aye.
There's always got to be abaddie.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
When this news of these trialsgot back to James in Scotland,
he was totally vindicated.
This was his proof that he'dbeen looking for.
That he was in fact God's chosenbecause why else would the devil
be out to get him?
And he became a man obsessed.
I mean, I think he was already awee bit obsessed by this point,

(35:05):
but...

SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
This was just exactly what this impressionable
young man was needing wasvalidation of these theories

SPEAKER_01 (35:14):
that...
He was only 23 at this point, sohe was still young.
So the threat of his death, evenif God's will had opposed it,
because obviously God savedthem, that was...
I never got...
If God can just intervene andstop it happening, why does it
matter?

SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
What's the need for the fight?
I

SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
don't know if it's because they might win at some
point, or if it's only Jamesthat's safe because...
I

SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
think it's that he's got to...
got to prove to God that he'sworthy of these interventions.
He's seen it as a sign.
He needs to prove to God thathe's willing to do whatever it
takes to do his work and tospread his word and fight for
the side of good.

SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
So luckily for James, David Seaton was on the
case.
So he was a local bailiff inNorth Berwick and he had became
really suspicious of hisservant, Galus Duncan.
Any Outlander fans among youwill see where this is going.
I was like, oh my god, I was soexcited when I seen the name

(36:25):
because I'd never realised thatthat was where that character
had came from.
I was just like, oh, that's sucha nice nod.
It's made me like Outlander evenmore.
But anyway, so she left homeevery night, every other night,
and returned with the ability toheal the sick and infirm.

(36:46):
To quote from the News ofScotland, 1591,"...made her
master and others to be in greatadmiration and wondered thereat,
by means whereof the said DavidSeton had his maid in some great
suspicion, that she did notthose things by natural and
lawful ways." but rathersupposed it to be done by some

(37:08):
extraordinary and unlawfulmeans.
My take on this is like, theywere like, oh, she's doing a
really cool thing that should beadmired.
That's no natural.
Yeah, she's a woman, so that'sunnatural, so she must be a
witch.

SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Women aren't to be admired.

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Yeah, so when asked about these dealings, she
refused to answer.
She must be a witch.
So David, along with a few ofhis pals, arrested Galus and
tortured her with thumbscrews,or pillywinks, as they were
called, and thrown, which iswhen they bind a rope really

(37:46):
tightly around your head andthen pull either end so it
squashes your skull.
What was it you had described itas earlier?

SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
Like putting the rubber bands around a
watermelon.

SPEAKER_01 (37:56):
Yeah, literally like that.
That sounds fucking horrible.
What was this woman made of, bythe way?
Because she made it through allthat and still...
did not confess she held it out

SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
it's quite impressive

SPEAKER_01 (38:09):
yeah so at this point they became convinced that
she must have the devil's markupon her so this was a thing
that was kind of like commonlyknown that when you went into
service of the devil he is likea kind of like anti-baptism

(38:31):
style like licked his mark uponyou in like a private place or a
really common one was like underthe hair so a lot of people had
their heads shaved while theywere looking for this mark and
that while it was on your bodybut hadn't been discovered you
were unable to confess which iswhere this led to this like

(38:54):
maybe they was innocent becausethey just hadn't found the mark
yet and sometimes they couldn'tfind the mark but they just
hadn't looked hard enough, andthey were still guilty.
There was no way out, basically.
But they did find the mark onGalus Duncan.
One of the things as well, itcould have been a birthmark or a

(39:16):
mole, or I think it wasdescribed as an insensitive
patch, which is where a piece ofskin, if they pricked it with a
needle, wouldn't bleed, which iswhere the witch prickers came
from.
That was...
There was ten roles in Scotlandfor that.
There were ten people that wereemployed as witch-prickers
during this time period.

(39:37):
That's a lot of people.
I think they were about the onlyones that made any money out of
this, which is wild.

SPEAKER_00 (39:44):
What, just specifically the witch-prickers?

SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
Yeah.
Like, other than because themajority of the people were
women, they didn't have any landor property or money.
Mm-hmm.
So, like, most of the time,like, a lot of these witch
trials were at great cost basedtime and money to the people
involved with very little...

SPEAKER_00 (40:11):
Little to gain from it.
Like, benefit from

SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
it, other than God's...
Aye, but not a lot of materialgain.
It shows they believed it.
Do you know, like, this wasthe...
Or some of them did.

SPEAKER_00 (40:26):
Aye, because, like, if there was some kind of, like,
profit driven motive you couldunderstand why people who didn't
necessarily believe in it butwere kind of driven by that
greed might get on board but ifthey didn't have a lot to gain
from it from a sort of profitstandpoint you're kind of left

(40:48):
to think that yeah they probablyprobably did believe and what
they were doing.
They probably believed that itwas right.

SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
I would argue probably more so like the people
conducting the trial than thepeople accusing people.
Oh yeah, yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
yeah.
Because people who were makingaccusations probably stood to
gain more.

SPEAKER_01 (41:10):
Yeah, even if it was just for like a I delight them
point of view.
So upon searching Gailis Duncan,they found a mark on her throat.
And it's written in the News ofScotland at this point she
confessed.
Which is a really common thingthrough a lot of the literature
of the day attached to this, isthat once the mark was found,
they confessed.

(41:30):
But to me translates to theytortured them until eventually
they confessed.

SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
Aye, because it's kind of well known that you can
get people to say whatever youwant.
They will tell you what you wantto hear if you're going to be
torturing them.

SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
because anything to get the pain to stop especially
if you're like crushing people'sbones and stuff like one of the
times in the book that Iactually had to stop reading was
because a woman had theirchildren tortured in front of

SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
her I feel like most people at that point would say
whatever the fuck they wanted

SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
and drag other people under the bus in the same
breath which happened fairlyregularly.
It's quite funny, even in theSalem Witch Trials, they only
stopped because they accused themayor's wife, or somebody
important's wife, and at thatpoint, all further inquiry was

(42:37):
cut.
They were aware that...
It didn't suit at that point.
Aye.
So at this discovery, sheconfessed, and...
named several other notoriouswitches in the area, and all the
ones that were involved in theplot to bring down the ship of
James and Anne on their returnjourney.

(43:00):
This system was repeated, so thepeople that she named were
brought in, tortured until theyconfessed, and named others,
which led to there being around70 folks, both men and women,
but predominantly women.
were apprehended.

SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
Aye, because they'd been pushing for more names.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
constantly.

SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
Probably the only way to get them to stop or back
off is to give some names.

SPEAKER_01 (43:27):
You'd probably end up naming everybody that you
fucking know.
Do you know what I mean?
So, one of the people that Galusnamed was her employer, Eupheme
McElzean.
She was a woman from aninfluential family.
She was strong and outspoken.

(43:47):
Her husband actually took hername when they got married
because this was quitecommonplace during the time
period.
The person from the moreinfluential family or the more
rich family was the name thatthey shared to keep the line
going.
She wore the trousersessentially in both name and
also from the descriptions thereand stuff.

(44:11):
In fact, one of the things shewas accused of was being
controlling and domineering ofher husband.
And this was part of theevidence against her for being a
witch.
Along with she was accused ofmurdering her godfather and
charming a judge to look kindlyon her daughter.
I don't know what her daughterwas in trouble for.

(44:31):
As well as helping to relieve awoman of pain during childbirth,
which was quite a common thingthroughout the witch trials as
this being something thatpeople, that proved witchcraft.

SPEAKER_00 (44:45):
Because it's unnatural and evil.

SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
It's unnatural, evil, and also goes directly
against God's punishment for theoriginal sin, which is the pain
of childbirth.
So they've seen any kind ofremedies or like, a leavement of
this is going against, directlygoing against God's will.
And although this was a reallycommonplace thing throughout

(45:10):
europe to be like one of thereasons people were charged for
there was very few cases of thatin scotland that wasn't really
something that people took a lotof umbrage to but did in this
case um for whatever reason itjust wasn't one of the
commonplace ones

SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
well that's that's kind of nice that it wasn't as
commonplace that's the smallsilver lining

SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
So she was apprehended for the crimes of
these as well as being involvedin the plot to murder James.
And she confessed throughtorture.

SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
So was this the kind of being involved in the plot to
murder James, was this quite akind of long running through
line through...
the Scottish witch trials, orwas this just at the beginning?
The first few kind of...

SPEAKER_01 (46:07):
I think it was just at the beginning.
Just at the beginning.
Because it wasn't all that longbefore he fucked off down to
England.
Right.
I don't know exactly what age,but he just kind of started it
off.
And I think once these witchtrials were over...
I'm not saying it never happenedagain.
I'm not too sure, to be totallyhonest.

(46:28):
There was probably other, butnone as big as this.

SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
He just kind of lit the fire and walked away.

SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
Yeah.
Quite literally.
So she was the first person tobe executed for witchcraft in
Scotland, of which she wasburned alive, as was the most
painful death befitting thecrime.
Yeah.
Hers was probably one of themore profitable deaths in that

(46:56):
she had, because her family waswealthy and because her husband
had taken her name, she didactually have estates and money
and stuff belonging to her.
All of which were gifted to theking's allies and favourites.
She could not be silenced, sothey burned her alive.

SPEAKER_00 (47:12):
How barbaric.

SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
There's only actually one witch's grave.
in the Fuley Scotland because itwasn't acceptable for them to be
buried because they thought theycould come back.
Which is why they had to beburned.
No many of them were burnedalive.
That wasn't as common here.
That was only saved for the mostgrievous crimes.

(47:37):
Most of them were strangled andthen their bodies were burned.
But there was only that one thatactually got buried.

UNKNOWN (47:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (47:48):
Do you

SPEAKER_01 (47:48):
know

SPEAKER_00 (47:48):
where that grave is?
It's on a beach.
Ah, yeah.
Because there was somethingringing a bell there, but it was
somewhere that wasn't accessibleduring high tide or something
like that.
Yeah, because it's like...
If they did come back, theycouldn't get people because

(48:09):
they'd be trapped by the water.

SPEAKER_01 (48:10):
Yeah.
There's a whole other story withthat as well.
But...
aye this has been interestingenough that I want to do like
some more like more in-depthepisodes like on the witch
trials in Scotland I thought itwas just quite quite a good kind
of introduction into like wherelike how it started and the kind
of transition between like whatwe spoke about in the last

(48:34):
episode and kind of hysterialike into the witch trials into
how they kind of began inScotland alongside some of the
kind of methods and stuff thatcame into place as part of the
kind of culture I guess at thetime.

SPEAKER_00 (48:52):
I

SPEAKER_01 (48:53):
find it mad that even all the things that led up
to this being possible withHenry VIII and that was again
all about women being blamed forproblems that were nothing to do
with them.
Because Henry VIII had syphiliswhich is why he was not able...

(49:16):
It's not that he was not able tohave kids, but it was like...

SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Far more difficult than

SPEAKER_01 (49:20):
normal.
Ah, it was like his fertilityhad been affected by this
disease, which is why Nanny'swife were producing an heir.

SPEAKER_00 (49:27):
It couldn't possibly have been his fault.

SPEAKER_01 (49:31):
So this brings us nicely on to our next section,
which is around the scold'sbridle, or the branks, as it was
known in Scotland.
So what is a scold?
Historically, they're kind ofdefined as a woman who had a
vicious tongue or was causingnuisance by loud invective,

(49:53):
which meant she kind ofquarreled with her neighbours
and kind of argued withauthorities.
I would most definitely getfucking labelled a scold back in
the day.
Problem with authority?
They take any kind of shit?

SPEAKER_00 (50:09):
Scold.
Yeah, that definitely would be.

SPEAKER_01 (50:16):
So there was actually a male equivalent of
this, which doesn't really getspoken about too much, which was
the Barator, which was a bitmore about kind of being violent
towards others.
So it was like someone who likewent out and kind of brawled

(50:37):
with other people and was neverquiet and still quite
argumentative and stuff, butlike Aye.
It was a bit made about the moreviolent end of the

SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
spectrum.
Aye.
A brute.
Aye.
Like

SPEAKER_01 (50:48):
someone who...
Yeah.
A brute's a good word.
But, funnily enough, this termand the punishment for it
started to go out of fashion bythe early 17th century.
Around about the same time thatthe bridal started to come into
fashion.

(51:08):
Which...
Feels linked to me.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (51:14):
I mean, if they're going to bring in a punishment
for it, they're not going towant to punish the men.

SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
That's a pure look back in the day, Asbo.
But it sounded like it startedas an Asbo and then kind of
morphed into just a way likedealing with your wife if she
was getting too annoying.

SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
Yeah, that's...
so

SPEAKER_01 (51:42):
the actual origins of the bridal are not clear but
it's thought to have originatedsometime in the middle ages in
Europe and was originally usedas part of the penal system so
it started as a kind of thingthat was used by the local
authorities rather than justanybody It's first heard of in

(52:08):
Britain as a punishment forwitches, which is where the link
comes in.
It became popularised withinScotland specifically during
James's reign.
He loved it.
He thought it was the greatestthing ever.
He wanted it to be in every townin Scotland and it did go that
way.
So a scolds bridle wasessentially like a head cage

(52:32):
that was in two parts with ahinge so it kind of closed over
your head and it had...
There was loads of differentversions of it, but the kind
of...
The base point in it was that ithad a plate of metal at the
mouth that went into your mouthand held your tongue down to
stop you being able to speak.

SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
And this sounds like something straight out of a
dungeon.

SPEAKER_01 (52:55):
Yeah.
It basically had a gag in it andwas lockable and could be locked
onto your head.
The prime use of it as well...
Everybody sees it and it alwayskind of gets made out as this,
like, oh, they had it on so theycouldn't speak again.
But it was actually used tohumiliate people.
A lot of them had bells on thetop.

(53:17):
And people, it wasn't like yougot that on and then you went
home.
No, you had to sit in the townsquare.
Like the stocks, like, do youknow, the things that we're kind
of familiar with.
And in much the same fashion,people would hurl insults and
fruit at you.
And, like, it was just anotherform of these kind of public
humiliation.
ways of controlling people'sbehaviour and trying to mould

(53:40):
them to fit into society better.
But the difference being, onceit got taken off, they got
exiled from the community a lotof the time.
It was quite commonplace for

SPEAKER_00 (53:52):
them to have like...
So it was like adouble-barrelled, you're going
to be humiliated and then you'vegot to leave.
And then

SPEAKER_01 (53:57):
turfed out.
Not always, but they wenthand-in-hand quite often,
especially during the witchtrials.
Yeah.
And One of the other, again,there's loads and loads of
different versions of them.
One of the more horrible,barbaric ones came out of
Scotland called the four-farbridle, which actually had a

(54:19):
spike on either end of theplate.
So one that went into the tongueand one that went up through the
roof of the mouth.
I feel like, I don't know, youcan look at these things and go,
oh, what the fuck?
But it's mad to think aboutactually wearing them like
actually being forced into themlike that being like clamped
down their mouth and then lockedshut and then being forced to

(54:42):
sit in their hometown whileeverybody that they've ever
known like pure Game of Thronesstyle like shouts shame at them
and like aye it's fuckinghorrible

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
people just are a bit horrible

SPEAKER_01 (54:58):
yeah aye aye it's really grim to think about like
I think it's even grimmer tothink about, like, all this
stuff still happens today, butjust in a much more, like...

SPEAKER_00 (55:14):
Kind of sanitised and...

SPEAKER_01 (55:15):
Sanitised, like, kind of insidious way, where
it's in our language now, do youknow?
Like, the feeling's still there,the motivation's still there,
the outcome's still there.
Like, women still...
grow up today being taught to bemeek and mild and no make waves
and no call it authority.
Aye,

SPEAKER_00 (55:36):
women need to be small and quiet.

SPEAKER_01 (55:39):
Because otherwise people are going to put big
spikes through their face andthrow eggs at them.
Because they don't need to dothat now.
The

SPEAKER_00 (55:51):
influence is there.
Kind of refined their ability tohumiliate and terrorise women.

SPEAKER_01 (56:00):
Aye, like, women are still humiliated and terrorised,
it's just that it happens indifferent ways now.
It's been modernised.
But the effect's the same.
Yeah.
So, the scolds bridle's actuallywhere the term hodge your tongue
comes from.

SPEAKER_00 (56:16):
Oh, that's gross.

SPEAKER_01 (56:17):
Yeah.
Don't know if I'm going to besaying that one again.
It's got a lot more...
A lot more punch to it now.

SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
Aye, but a loaded term.

SPEAKER_01 (56:32):
So, once the bridal was put on, they would get led
through the streets by thebeadle or chained to the market
cross.
So, not only was it, like,fucking terrifying and obviously
pretty sore, like, there's beenthere's been evidence suggesting
people's teeth would get knockedout by it and shit like that.

(56:55):
Obviously, it wasn't built thesame for everybody.
And because they were gettingfucking objects and stuff hurled
at them and they had a bigimmovable metal thing on their
head and in their mouth next totheir teeth.
Aye,

SPEAKER_00 (57:12):
they weren't custom built for each person.
It was like one for the town andYeah.
Can I imagine it got cleaned allthat much either?

SPEAKER_01 (57:29):
I don't think anything really did then, to be
fair.
Aye, so the main kind of purposein it was to humiliate the
wearer.
It was less about the kind ofpain aspect.
Obviously, that was true.
That was a bonus, yeah.
But the main purpose in itwas...
to humiliate them and bystanderswere encouraged to kind of jeer

(57:53):
and like hurl insults throwobjects spit at and even urinate
on the wearer just like the mostdegrading humiliating everybody
could be so by the end of the1500s every sizeable town in
Scotland had a branks andsometimes they were displayed
attached to the meerkat cross toact as a deterrent so they had

(58:16):
it kind of hanging up in thesquare As a way to kind of warn
people what could happen if theystepped out of line.
No people, sorry, women.
What could happen to women ifthey didn't obey their husbands,
be subservient to their husbandsand keep in line.

SPEAKER_00 (58:31):
Just a kind of visual reminder.

SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
This kind of comes back to like, why did they have
to try so hard?
If this was the natural orderand the way that God planned and
the way that God had made allthe people...
Why was it this fuckingdifficult

SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
to upkeep?
You wouldn't have to fight thathard if it was the natural way
of things.
Oh, sorry, I

SPEAKER_01 (58:56):
forgot.
It's the devil.
It's the devil using their eyesand their tongue and everything
else to fucking cause, I don'tknow, ungodliness.
Sin.

SPEAKER_00 (59:11):
Hearing all this stuff makes you take a really
dim view of human nature.

SPEAKER_01 (59:19):
Humans are fucking horrible.
Like, I feel like people like tothink that we're better now, but
it's just changed.

SPEAKER_00 (59:29):
It's no different.
It looks like sociallyacceptable.

SPEAKER_01 (59:32):
Look at any Facebook post comments, mate.
Do you know, like, people havethat bit in them.

SPEAKER_00 (59:38):
Aye, the beef or blood.

SPEAKER_01 (59:40):
Yes.
Everybody's got that.
Like, just some people are morein control of it, I guess, than
others.
So one of the earliest recordsof the pranks being used in
Scotland was from 1567, sobefore the witch trials.
But they were really seldom usedat this point.

(01:00:01):
They did exist, but they neverended up in every town in
Scotland until after James camein.
Bessie Telfer slandered BaileyThomas Hunter in Edinburgh,
saying that he was using falsemeasures at his market stall.
She was sentenced to be branketand fixed to the cross for an

(01:00:22):
hour.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:23):
But he was using false measures.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:25):
He probably fucking was.
This is like, how dare you callme out, witch.
Branket you.
Hodge your tongue.
Oh, that's...
So husbands could request localbailies to have the branks
applied to nagging wives.

(01:00:47):
Incredibly, the crime of being ascold, a woman deemed to be
annoying or vexatious, was notdropped from the statute books
in Britain until 1967.
Wow.
Yeah.
My hope is that it's just one ofthese forgotten laws that's just

(01:01:08):
like, still existed but like no,it's just because nobody's
thought about

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:14):
it.
That's quite a horrible thing tohave still existed until that
recently.
It kind of, it goes quite a longway to sort of explaining that
sort of like the culture and theway people talk about their

(01:01:37):
wives and them being likenagging wives and you know the
whole kind of the generalfeeling that a lot of people
detest their spouse and doanything to spend as much time
apart from them as possible

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:55):
it's because it's what's expected and it's
expected because of all thisshit like this year being
thousands of years in the makingyou know it was actually really
gross like reading reading upabout this like a lot of the
kind of resources and stuff thatI'd used was from like some

(01:02:16):
museums and stuff like that thathave the branks or have the
skulls bridled and they weretalking about how pretty much
there's one guy on every tourthat's like oh do you sell them
in the gift shop and like Idon't know man it just like I

(01:02:36):
can see it I can see being onthat tour and hearing that
fucking horrible and gross andso normalised.
I bet nobody would blink an eyeat that.
Even me.
If I heard that and it was somerandom guy, I'd just be like,
oh, here we go.
Do you know what

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:52):
I mean?
Quite a low point, I feel, thatsurvived on the books until
1967.
I

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:01):
wonder, right?
I don't know if this is reallygross.
I did see...
like a couple of people whenlike writing about the branks
and writing about the scoldsprivate and kind of talking
about the kind that there waslike a bit of sexual element to
it for the people that were likeactually doing the punishment

(01:03:22):
and like that's partly like whyit became as popular as it did

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:27):
i mean i could totally see this in a sort of
kink setting being like

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:33):
doing a scene of this with everybody consenting
obviously with one that'sfucking made and safe and not
going to do you permanent damagebut like it makes you wonder if
that was part of what was goingon with all of this it was just
this total domination of womenand freedom to be able to do

(01:03:59):
that in new way like in a publicway like and it just cottoned on
do you know what i

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:09):
mean this this one's really like this topic generally
is really wearing me down yeahlike this this has been hard
this has been been pretty grim

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:24):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:28):
it erodes your faith in people.
None of the general points thatwe've talked about have been new
for me.
But I think just the continuousbarbaric dehumanising nature of

(01:04:57):
the whole thing and just howpersistent it's been is it's
kind of difficult to like todeal with like it's I don't know
you've got that kind of ohpeople are generally good but

(01:05:18):
like I don't know there's a fewkind of horrible people out
there and things like that butlike It seems like actually the
majority of people are really,really horrible and ready to
submit people to torture andwhatever for entertainment or
personal gain or...

(01:05:38):
I mean,

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:41):
look at reality TV.
I know it's no torture, but it'sstill putting people through
extreme stress and fuckingemotional distress.
In order for entertainment.
Right, sorry.
I'm going down a negative path.
Let's...
Let's look at this through aslightly different scope.

(01:06:03):
Right?
Let's look at this through thescope of the everyday people
during Nazi Germany.
Do you know?
There will be...
It's easy to go, oh, everybodywas bad.
Everybody was on board withthis.
But people by nature conform.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:22):
It's built into them, like, people, especially
under times where there's, like,fascism going on, which, like,
this is fascism.
It's just old-school fascism.
Like, people would have beenterrified of being labelled as
witches themselves, so thenthey're going to conform.
They're going to join in.
They're going to stick in withthe crowds.
They're going to no-make wavesif you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:44):
And that is how a lot, like, do you know, it could
have been every single person inthat crowd was against it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:49):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:50):
They've

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:50):
all got to play the part of supporting what's going
on to not draw suspicion.
There

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:55):
would have been massive amounts of that going
on, let's be honest.
Not everybody was pious.
A lot of people would have been,but there would have been people
that were, I don't even want touse the word pious, I don't know
how to brainwash comes to mind.
There still would have beenpeople that seen what was going
on as wrong.

(01:07:15):
There was still people thatspoke out against the church.
It's just a lot of them ended upgetting burnt as witches so
that's quite a good deterrent tostop that happening again which
is probably why it went on foras long don't lose all faith in
humanity it's shitty shitty istoo small a word it's fucking

(01:07:41):
atrocious what has went on butnot everybody was in on it

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:46):
Aye.
I think it's quite easy to sortof lose sight of that when
you're in the middle of allthis.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:52):
Totally.
Like, I get it.
I get it.
But people are just people atthe end of the day, and when you
know, it's not just that thepeople in power are like have
loads of power.
They're just murdering people.
And they're murdering people inthe most horrible, painful ways

(01:08:12):
possible on the regular.
It's...
No, why would you speak up inthat instance?
But if you did, then you'regoing to die.
Ah,

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:24):
you need to be sort of prepared for...
If you speak out against this,you are likely to die.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:30):
And the likelihood is you speaking out is not going
to change it.
And on that bombshell.
So, this has been part two ofour coverage.
You can...
Wrath, the demonisation ofwomen's sexuality and rage.
There will be a part threebecause we've got the second
half of Hysteria up till themodern day to kind of cover.

(01:08:54):
Hope you guys come back for thatnext week.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:57):
Bye.
See you next week.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:59):
Bye.
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