June 29, 2025 • 53 mins
The boys are back to recap the Rocket Classic at Detroit Golf Club in Detroit, Michigan.
#golf #pgatour #podcast #travelerschampionship #scottiescheffler
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The Second Cut gets you everything you need in the world of golf on the PGA Tour and more! Tournament previews, storylines for each week, and in-depth players reviews. Hosted by Rick Gehman (@RickRunGood). Joined by Greg DuCharme (@therealGFD), Mark Immelman (mark_immelman), and Patrick McDonald (@pmcdonaldCBS).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome in.
It's the Second Cut Podcast.
I'm Rick Gaiman.
That right there is GregDucharme.
And we got bonus golf played inthe Motor City.
Greg, good to see you, buddy.
Good to see you too, Rick.
What a week and what a finish.
It was rather exciting because Ihad no clue who was going to
(00:20):
win.
And this thing, for the guysthat were near the top, it was
wide open most of the day.
72 holes were not enough.
Five playoff holes for a totalof 77.
It was a log jam all day long.
We knew that was going to be thecase.
We had guys like Michael ThorpeBjornsson throw his hat into the
(00:44):
ring.
We had Jackson Suber and JakeKnapp all make runs at this
championship.
It was a three-man playoff, butnone of those names that I have
just mentioned were in saidplayoff.
No.
You know, one thing that wasreally interesting was looking
at the scores.
There was not a lot of scorevariance.
(01:05):
But you just look through thisleaderboard.
It's three under, five under,five under, five under, four
under, six under, four under,five under, five under, four
under, three under.
Like everybody in the top 10shot somewhere between three and
six under.
Not a whole lot of variance.
And I think just about everysingle player that I named,
including the winner, is ruiningsome shots out there.
(01:31):
Everybody seemed to be lettingopportunities slip throughout
this day.
And that was honestly more ofthe story than going out there
and taking it.
Well, the playoff...
was between Chris Kirk, MaxGrazerman, and Aldrich
Potgeeter.
And let's just get right to thechampion, Greg.
(01:52):
He deserves it.
The 20-year-old out of SouthAfrica gets his first PGA Tour
victory after a little bit of arocky start in the final round.
Made two bogeys in his firstfive holes before settling down
into this and kind of gettingthe greens figured out.
(02:13):
Yes, very interesting day.
You know, gets off to a greatstart at one, nearly hits it out
of bounds at two.
And it's not out of bounds, buthe can't play it.
And so he's got to take it onplayable.
I thought actually a pretty goodbogey there.
And then, you know, there weresome mistakes, like four was
(02:33):
bad.
pretty brutal right in front ofthe green and two on the par
five.
Can't get that up and down.
Um, then five, he's just left tothe green and it's kind of like,
you know, the weakness,everybody knows the weakness for
Pocketer is his short game.
Um, he's just left to the greenon five.
It's like 10 feet by, uh, and itshowed up again at, at 15, he
(02:57):
hit just a Just a terrible chip.
But fortunately, come playofftime, he was able to hit some
big ones.
He was able to take care of thepar fives with the exception of
number four.
So he took care of the lastthree par fives.
And I'll tell you what, Rick, Ilove what he does with the
driver.
It was impressive.
(03:17):
He didn't miss a fairway afterthe 10th hole in regulation
anyway.
he was striping it and the wayhe rolls the rock, it's, it's
pretty impressive stuff.
I think the other thing that Ireally like about it, well, a
lot, I like a lot of stuff, butthe, I thought he made some
pretty solid, like in gameadjustments, Greg.
So clearly he, and maybe it'snerves or maybe it's whatever,
(03:40):
but you know, you're strugglingwith kind of distance control on
the putting surfaces.
He was a little bit nervy onsome of those shots out of the
gate.
And then if you look at the wayhe played 50, so he played 15
and, three times at the end ofregulation and then twice in the
playoff.
The first two times, he couldn'tfigure out how to flight one
back there into that pin,figures it out in the playoff.
(04:05):
The second time, hits it to 17feet and eventually rolls the
putt in.
yes which was really nice i itseemed like he played it three
different ways yeah um and andthat was a lot harder shot than
it looked if you just watch theway balls were coming in there
if they landed up on top theywere skipping over the back and
if you played them short there'sa a slope there that was
(04:29):
crushing it so it was reallyhard to get it close there there
was a really small landing areato get it on the right level on
that hole, which was reallycool.
Grazerman got it right inregulation.
Maybe that was in one of theplayoff holes.
I think it was in one of theplayoff holes.
First time they played the firsttime, right?
(04:49):
He, he got the landed it just ontop of that Ridge and it skipped
up and spun.
So that was really nice.
But look, those are things thatpocket or needs.
He hits it so long.
We talk about this with Brysonand iron play.
You end up with almosteverything is an in-between
shot.
If you have 20-yard gaps betweenyour clubs, it's very rare that
(05:15):
you have a perfect number.
So you have to be able to play alot of different shots.
And he can.
He knows how to.
I don't think it's as sharp asit can be.
But the new set of irons that heput in play this week, the
spinnier golf ball seemed toreally be making a difference.
And they seem to really helpthem this week.
Puts himself on a really shortlist of international PGA tour
(05:36):
winners, uh, before they turned21.
I think it's like Seve, Rory,Tom, Kim, Joaquin, Neiman.
Um, I'm missing somebody big inthere as well, but it's, it's, I
don't think so.
Is that the list?
Yeah, I think that's the list.
It's, it's a who's who, right?
I mean, that now there's, Doexpectations change when you win
(05:59):
this young?
You know, I don't know for PockEater.
It's very interesting.
And I know I'm not saying it theway Mark would want me to, but.
That's okay.
We are trying to.
So the Mark situation is he wastrying to fly out tonight.
(06:19):
but the playoff, he might'vemissed that flight.
So he might be joining us.
If we, if we get him, we'll addhim, but we'll see if we can get
Mark today.
So as for his expectations,Aldrich's expectations, I, I
think there's a way you couldlook at this.
Like it's a perfect golf coursefor him and, and he got a win.
You know, he lost in a playoffin Mexico, which was a perfect
(06:42):
golf course for him.
And he nearly got a win.
You know, he had a nice finishat, at colonial as well, but
he's, He's missed like sevencuts this year on the PGA Tour.
So I think there will be anunderstanding from the golfing
public that he's a really,really talented player, but
there's still a lot of work todo in his game.
(07:03):
And if he gets that done, itbecomes very scary for everybody
else.
But this is still a little, youknow, it's not as sharp as, it's
not nearly as sharp as it couldbe.
Yeah, it's, you know, there's alot to be excited about.
He's 20.
He's, you know, he's a winnernow.
He is probably the longest guyin professional golf, which is
(07:25):
only going to, you know, benefithim in the modern game, right?
So there's a lot to be excitedabout, but there's a lot to be,
not that I should have comparedhim to Gordon Sargent, but like,
you know, things, things, thingsare weird.
Things happen.
It's so easy to just anoint theguy who wins an hour ago as the
(07:46):
next best thing when we've seenso many times how hard this is.
Yes, yes.
There's a lot that can go wrong.
He has missed nine cuts thisyear.
Nine cuts.
He's made four.
Two of those four, he's ended upin a playoff, and he won one.
(08:07):
Look, I think there's a lot ofgood in that, but I'm not ready
to go say the floodgates aregoing to open at this point.
This is not a complete player.
I've also, by no means, tried tobash the guy that just won.
I'm extremely impressed.
(08:28):
I'm just trying to temper theexpectations here that this was
a great week and he's a greattalent, but I don't think he's
the...
The next Savvy Ballesteros.
Yeah.
Well, we'll find out.
See, the thing with this one isyou just have to circle back in
20 years to find out whether ornot he's the next Savvy
Ballesteros.
(08:48):
Put it on the calendar.
Yeah, I'll set a reminder forsure.
June 29th, 2045.
We'll talk about it again.
We'll bring it up.
Like 10,000 episodes from now.
The...
The man he beat, well, he beattwo men in the playoff, but
we'll get to Chris Kirk in asecond.
He exited a little bit earlierthan the other two, was Max
Grazerman, who I'll tell youwhat, for how long Aldrich
(09:10):
Pocketer is, this Max Grazermandude can keep up with him pretty
darn well.
Yeah, he kept up.
There were a couple times it waslike, wait, is Pocketer going
first?
Yeah.
And if you look at the stats forthe day, I was looking at
(09:31):
driving distance all drives.
Because it's fun just to seewhere everybody finished.
Jake Knapp actually led.
He finished fourth, won out ofthe playoff.
Nikolaj Hojgaard was second.
He was 24th.
Pak Eder, who won, was third.
Cam Champ finished tied 19th.
He was fourth.
Goderup was tied 26th.
(09:51):
He was fifth.
Grazerman was sixth.
So Grazerman, on all of his teeshots...
for the week was 317.6.
Pocketer was 321.5.
So absolutely moving it.
And that was great, which ispart of the reason why we were
so high on him early in theweek, Rick.
(10:13):
Part of the reason was hisputting, which seemed to return.
He was second in the field instrokes game putting.
Yet at the same time, there wereplenty of opportunities in the
playoff.
But More importantly, greatopportunities early on in this.
He nearly drove the green oneight and doesn't convert the
(10:36):
birdie.
Misses a real close one at two.
Doesn't make birdie there.
And then all the putts in theplayoff.
He had a nine-footer to win thetournament and missed.
A lot that will sting.
The ones in the playoff inparticular, maybe the one on 18
in regulation, He was on the proside of all of them.
(11:00):
They were all pretty darn goodputts that could have dropped,
didn't, and that's thedifference out there.
I was holding a 40-1 MaxGrazerman ticket, so obviously I
had a rooting interest in this.
But this is what we talked aboutearlier in the week.
He drives it so well.
He putts it so well.
(11:20):
That's a very unique combinationon the PGA Tour, and this is
basically the best golf coursein the world for that.
Yeah, and he showed up.
You know, he didn't evenbring...
Another reason why I liked himthis week is his iron play has
been pretty good the last coupleweeks.
And it was just okay this week.
You know, he gained strokes tothe field, but barely.
(11:41):
Like, half a shot.
He hit 54 greens.
Potgeeter hit 62.
You know, there was a little bitof a...
laps in those middle two roundsin that category that could
definitely improve.
But I love the way he competes.
I love the way he swings it.
(12:02):
He's got a great intensity abouthim.
Mark interviewed him after theround.
I would not want to interviewMax Grazerman in a loser
interview.
He's a really intense guy.
I didn't hear what he said.
I didn't have the sound on.
I was doing HQ.
I saw that Mark was interviewinghim.
Do you know what he said?
What did he say?
Basically, it was that this onewould sting for a while.
(12:25):
Yeah, it really hurts.
He gave it some good rolls thatdidn't go and he'll get back to
work in two weeks.
But you could you could see itin his face.
It was it really bothered him.
OK, so I'm trying to rememberall of this because I was at the
Wyndham Championship.
He was the one who coughed it upon Sunday.
(12:48):
Yeah, he had a four-shot lead.
Four-shot lead like at the turn,right?
It was late.
Deep.
Wouldn't it all start goingdownhill at like 14?
And that was when Kuchar did notfinish and basically said
something like, I was trying toshow Max it was okay to take a
(13:10):
breath or something like that.
Aaron Rye goes on to win andMatt Kuchar comes out and taps
one in the next morning.
in six minutes or whatever okayso so now that i'm thinking
about that this is a waydifferent result right i mean he
coughed up windham this was yeahhe had a missed couple missed
(13:30):
opportunities but man this was away better sunday for him in in
terms of trying to get a victorywell he competed and and there
were some moments when it lookedlike this is going to get away
He was going to come to 18 andbe two back kind of thing.
It was trending that way.
And then he made the long putton 16.
(13:51):
It was like, okay, now we gotlife.
Misses the fairway at 17, stillmakes birdie.
Now he's tied for the lead andhas a chance to win it in
regulation.
And no bogeys on the scorecard.
He did not cough this up.
There were like a couple of, youknow, he could have won.
(14:12):
I don't know if I'd go as far asto say he should have won.
Really, he missed a five-footerat two, and he missed a
six-footer and a four-footer.
A four-footer at eight.
And it's so easy to say eitherone of those goes and he wins.
But then maybe 16 doesn't go in.
(14:32):
Yeah, and you could also find,I'm sure you could find those
for every guy in the field.
You can.
Every guy on the leaderboard.
Chris Kirk might be anexception.
everybody had like kind ofagonizing opportunities that
they missed.
Yeah.
And they're even more agonizingbecause like a par hurts and a
(14:54):
Boki is basically ends yourtournament immediately.
So it is agonizing when you'regetting so many great looks and
they're just not falling.
Well, especially when you lookat, and this is part of the
reason why they're redoing thisgolf course, right?
I, I think the first time I sawa fairway bunker shot was Pock
Eater in the playoff.
(15:14):
Oh, dude, I was looking through.
I was just clicking through shotlink.
And how many bunkers did nothave a single ball in them all
week long?
There is no trouble off the tee.
Yeah.
And so now there's no troubleoff the tee.
You look at some of these holeslike one and one is a wedge in.
(15:35):
I mean, let's just look throughwhat Pocketer had.
Pocketer had 46 yards intonumber one.
46 yards.
A lot of guys got it up there inthat, Nate, 40, 50, 60 yards.
You don't convert that.
You don't get that up and down.
It hurts right out of the rip.
Two is a little longer, but youstill, you can give yourself a
(15:56):
wedge in.
Three, Pocketer has 60 yards.
You know, you might have 80yards.
Chris Kirk had like 110, Ithink.
Those bunkers are not in play.
It's like, got to convert there.
Four is a par five.
Five's not that long.
It's a 130 into six.
(16:17):
Seven's a par five.
You can hit iron in there.
Eight, you could drive it up bythe green.
I mean, Pocketer, I think he hitiron off that tee, and he had
100 yards in.
You could drive, Grazerman droveit up by the green.
It's like all these holes youhave little flip wedges in or
they're par fives.
(16:38):
And it's just a killer when youdon't convert.
And so that's why everybodyleaves feeling like they could
have won this tournament.
Well, we're going to try to adda third man to our playoff here.
I see him backstage.
Mark, give me a thumbs up ifyou're if you're right.
OK, Mark Immelman is here.
Hello, Mark.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Did I tell anybody how much I hate playoffs?
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Five holes, Mark.
Five of them.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Didn't feel like it was going to end either.
I mean, and my guy got knockedout early, but I'm the loser
interview guy, so I had to lurkaround.
You had to speak to some guy whowas going to eventually bow out.
I guess in the end it was anexciting day, but, man, what a
day.
It was unreal stuff.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
how do you draw the short straw of having to do the
loser interviews?
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Uh...
I think my boss trusts me morethan Colt Nost.
Okay, fair, probably, anddefinitely accurate.
And I interview for a living,and I did one way back in the
day with Danny McCarthy, andkind of like Ron Firestone, I
made him cry.
And this has been my job, to tryand get the guy to cry.
(17:49):
Okay,
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
sometimes easier said than done.
Well, the South African phenom,the 20-year-old, Gets the job
done, Mark.
How about that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So proud of him.
You know, he sort of weatheredthe storm a little bit.
I was concerned.
The first few holes, he lookedsort of nervy.
The club wasn't gettingreleased.
I mean, he was blocking ballsout to the right-hand side
because when he swings well,everyone thinks he fades the
ball.
But, you know, he fades the ballif he has to.
His preferred shot moves fromright to left a touch.
(18:22):
But the first few holes, youcould see him just not let one
go.
And I had said to Dottie, I feellike the key to him playing well
is just freedom, you know, justswinging free.
I heard Greg talk about, youknow, the golf course now before
the changes will happen, sort ofdefenseless if you're hitting at
a certain distance.
Yet he didn't look like he wasin full command.
(18:43):
But then in the end, he sort ofdug in and showed his class to
finish this thing off.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Yeah, he really did.
We talked a little bit about hisin-game adjustments and just the
ability to– I'm thinking of theshots that he hit on 15,
basically three different wayshe tried to access that pin on
15 and really just figured itout as the round went on with
especially his distance and hisspeed control on the putting
surfaces.
(19:07):
Sorry
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
to interrupt.
You bring up a really good pointthat I'd love to elaborate on
there with Aldrich because ifyou just throw the name out here
to the folks in the know and theinstant answer is going to be,
well, Longest driver in thetour.
He bombs it.
But I don't, I want people torealize how many shots this guy
(19:29):
has.
Because like in the playoffthere, for argument's sakes,
when Chris Kirk is hitting nineiron.
Now Kirk is not short.
He's picked up power over recentyears.
And Aldrich is sort of brushinga nine iron in there that goes a
little shorter than Kirk's did.
That shows you how he has theability to change speeds and
flight the ball.
And he's not afraid to go low inthere.
(19:49):
I feel like that's sort of bornof growing up in Perth a little
bit with the windy conditionsout there.
So, I mean, he's got a lot ofshots.
He really does.
And he'll get ripped for hisshort game because he plays with
that big, strong grip.
But his touch around the greenis incredible as well.
So the boy's got a lot of shots.
And as he continues to grow andmature, golly, with that driver
(20:10):
that he has, which he tells meis his favorite club.
Yeah, it better be.
Well, think about this.
I know another guy.
young man who drove the balllike a wild man, power-wise, and
is a Grand Slam champion now.
In Rory, Ulrich has the samesort of gear as off the tee.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
That'd be my favorite club.
If I could hit it about 40 yardsoff the tee as well.
Well, we're going to get to theman that you were with in the
playoff here, Mark.
And, uh, right now, becauseit's, it's, it's Chris Kirk and
I'm going to bounce this overyou first here, Greg, because,
uh, Chris Kirk got in early andhad to sit around and wait
sometimes figuratively,sometimes literally crisscross
(20:49):
applesauce on the driving range.
And he bowed out of this, uh, onthe 15th hole.
It's the par three, that backleft pin location you think
might work perfect for the drawkind of flares one out to the
right uh some 56 feet where youstart to get more likely to
three putt than to make it andhe does three jack for for bogey
(21:12):
that cannot extend uh his hisplayoff run
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
well no so sorry this this is this is sort of
inside golf a little bit as itpertains to kirk um you know
when he was waiting for theplayoff We're there on what is
the third tee of the tournament.
And they just put you on the teeand you hit balls down three
fairway.
And he did a bit and then heturned and hit some balls to a
(21:36):
green that's on the othercourse, the south course, little
wedges underneath trees.
And then with the wind, the wayit was blowing on the practice
tee, it was sort of like intooff the left a little bit.
And then he turned around andhit balls down another fairway.
I think it was like the secondor the fourth.
And I'm watching him, and he'ssort of hitting balls with the
(21:57):
wind sort of over his rightshoulder, almost like the
approach shot on 18.
And I'm like, well, this ispretty savvy.
You know, he's preparing himselffor the club he's about to have,
which he hit really well in thefirst hole of the playoff.
But then I asked Mike, hiscaddie, I'm like, so this is
what I'm thinking.
Am I right?
And he goes, yeah, well, kindof.
That makes sense.
But Chris just hates aleft-to-right wind.
(22:20):
And as soon as they got there on15, where it's like into him
like this, and you would thinkas a drawer of the golf ball,
you can just turn it into thatthing and have the two cancel
out.
It just doesn't fit for himbecause, you know, as he hits it
from the inside, the wind's outhere, you're a little late with
the club face.
It's easy for the drawer tostart to push the path way to
the right-hand side, which iskind of what he did.
(22:41):
I mean, I watched his legs fireway before they should have on
that nine iron, and it was amissed strike.
But it's sort of insideknowledge here that Chris is not
the happiest camper in the worldwhen the wind's into off the
left-hand side or off the left.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Very interesting.
Because on 18, it was off theright.
And he hit two.
I mean, in regulation, he hit abeauty in there.
And he hit a beauty in there inthe first playoff fold, too.
I mean, two really high-qualityshots.
I loved what Chris Kirk didtoday.
I just I felt like he was at adisadvantage.
(23:22):
He's not short by any means, buthe is compared to Grazerman and
Pocketer.
Sorry for the pronunciation,Mark.
He's just a lot shorter thanthose guys.
And so he didn't have quite thepitch and putt par fours that
they did.
And so he had to do it withwedge play and he didn't make
very many mistakes.
which was very impressive to me.
(23:43):
So I loved the way he playedthis round.
He had the driver on an absolutestring.
It's just a shame that he had togo out on a three putt.
It felt like when he missed thatputt on 18 in the playoff, he
was done.
There was a different look inhis face.
It looked like he knew that thatwas it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:08):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
which is strange.
I don't normally see that fromguys.
And it was like, wow, that facelooks very emotional, especially
for Chris Kirk, who doesn't showvery many emotions.
a gritty, a gritty final roundthere.
So 33, 34, 67 for, for ChrisKirk, just the one blemish on
the card market.
(24:29):
I will point out he will getcredit.
There was a couple of questionsabout this.
He gets T2 credit.
Doesn't matter where you finishin the playoff.
He and Max Grazerman will splitsecond place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Yeah.
You know, it's a guy who hasn'thad his best stuff, but I
remember, I don't know if it wasthis show or someone else where
he, I sort of picked him onFriday evening just because of
the player that he is and howdecorated he is and just how
mentally savvy he is and how heapproaches the game, despite
having these bombers that he'slining up against.
(25:02):
And he said something to me whenhe was waiting for the potential
playoff.
And it was like, hey, Chris, howare you doing?
Nice to watch you play.
And he goes, man, it was fun.
And he goes, I just hope I getsome extra golf.
UNKNOWN (25:17):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
And the way he said it was like, yikes, it's so good
to be back in this positionagain.
And I've been grinding so hardand now I'm here and I played so
solidly there in the finalround.
Maybe I left one or two outthere, but I just hope I get an
extra go.
And then it's amazing in theseplayoffs where at this level, if
(25:40):
you have a shot and you don'ttake it, it's not often that
you'll get another chance.
And when he hit that nine ironinto 18, in the playoff, that
shot was one of the better shotsI've seen this year.
The way it was struck, the wayit turned, the way it was
controlled distance-wise.
And then to just miss that putt,I thought he'd won the thing
(26:01):
with that shot and he was goingto make the putt.
And then when he missed, youalmost got the sense that, hold
on, this was the chance now.
Because now you're going intoholes where it's the par three,
but then you've got 16, which isplaying into a breeze a little
bit, so it's playing longer.
And then 14 is downwind, andyou've got Guys hitting nine
iron in there where Chris wentin with a hybrid club during
(26:21):
regulation.
So he's picked up playing great.
I think he's obviouslydisappointed now.
In my interview with him, hesaid as much.
But I think when everything sortof clears out in the wash, he's
going to go, all right, I'mback.
Game's good.
Nice way to– I've climbed thepoints ranking.
I've almost booked myself aplace in the playoff.
(26:42):
Now it's time to make some haytoward the end of the season.
SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Yeah, played well at Oakmont, and then obviously a
great finish here in Detroit.
All three of these guys, Greg,get some pretty significant
bumps in the FedExCup standings,and this is the time of year
where you better get it becausewe're running out of events
here.
So Chris Kirk goes from 101 to67, Grazerman goes 64th to 48th,
and Aldrich goes 73rd to 36th.
(27:05):
Obviously, getting into theplayoffs is one thing, but top
50 gets you into the signatureevents, and then top 30 is...
Now anybody has a chance becauseif you get yourself de-selected,
you're starting at even par.
Yeah, no more handicap forScotty Scheffler like you'd see
in those commercials.
And he needs it.
That guy stinks.
Yeah, he needs all the help hecan get.
(27:27):
It's a really big deal becausenow 70, if you're 70th, I feel
like you have a legitimatechance at winning the Tour
Championship.
I mean, you've got to playgreat, but you Why not?
You know, why, why can't you dothat?
So, um, it's a really, reallycool thing.
(27:48):
And all you got to do is survivein advance.
So these guys now havepositioned themselves where
they'd be in the playoffs if itended today.
Um, but they have some, somesummer golf coming up.
And I think for Chris Kirk, thatmeans there's a number of really
good spots for him.
I like his game at, um, At 3M,for instance, his game could
(28:11):
suit Windham if he has to playthere.
I think he could play reallywell on golf courses like that.
Grazerman, I feel like he canplay anywhere.
Pocketer, we'll see.
It doesn't seem like it rightnow, but it's obviously a
developing talent, and itwouldn't surprise me if he
(28:33):
showed the game to compete onYou know, in an open
championship, for instance.
So we'll see how that all playsout.
But yeah, big moves for theseguys this week.
And he certainly gets the longerleash, considering the fact that
the win gets him the addedbenefits of sponsors, or excuse
me, exemptions and everythingelse that comes along with
(28:56):
winning on the PGA Tour.
This was a three-man playoff,but at one point, it looks like
it might be a nine-man playoff.
I want to hit a couple of theguys that just missed out on
this, and we're going to startwith Jake Knapp here, Mark.
Yes?
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
I've just got to get someone at my hotel room door.
Give me two texts.
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
All right.
No problem.
He's muted.
I don't know.
Maybe he ordered DoorDash.
I don't know what's going on.
But Mark is going to his hotelroom door.
Jake Knapp here, Greg.
A easy 68 because Jake Knappdoesn't do anything difficult,
man.
This is smooth and cool.
And he gave himself a lot ofopportunities coming down the
(29:32):
home stretch.
Could not get himself into theplayoff falls.
Just one shot short.
Well, first things first, heshot 72 in the opening round and
got himself within one of aplayoff.
I couldn't be more impressedwith that.
The way he finished round three,going birdie, birdie, birdie to
close, is just sensationalstuff.
(29:53):
And following up a good roundwith another one, it was
excellent.
The big difference betweenSunday and Sunday, And Friday,
when he shot 61, was with thewedge play.
Because just like Friday, hedrove it beautifully.
And a lot of those opportunitiescame from long, really long tee
(30:17):
shots that found the fairway.
But with his wedge play, hewasn't able to get those close
today.
Perhaps it had something to dowith the little firmer golf
course, some different holelocations.
That all comes into play.
But you're sitting there on alot of these holes that you're
not taking advantage of.
Like number one, for instance,you're inside of 30 yards away
(30:40):
from the flag and don't get itup and down.
That's a killer.
On three, you're right up there50 yards away.
Don't get it up and down.
for a birdie that's a that's akiller uh and and so those kind
of things really hurt the bogeysof course at 9 and 11 hurt as
well um but yeah jake knappfought really hard and ended up
(31:03):
putting together all thingsconsidered a really great
tournament yeah speaking of thebombers mark how about jake
knapp who was number one indriving distance this week
that's all drives uh not soshabby in the short game
categories either.
11 out of 14 in terms ofscrambling.
That was 14th best.
(31:25):
And then gained two strokes withthe putter.
31st in putting.
So a complete game here fromJake Knapp.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Jake Knapp is a baller.
I mean, he's just so easy goingtoo.
I had a conversation with him onthe range prior to Saturday's
round.
He's just so easy, man.
He's not phased about stuff.
He just plays golf.
And today in warm-ups, he washitting drives that were
launching at 196 miles an hour.
(31:53):
Okay?
So the guy's got gears.
It is unreal how hard he hits itwith that languid pass of his.
But he's strong.
He's fast.
He's got all these things.
But those numbers sort of beliestuff a little bit here because
I want to build on Greg's pointabout the stuff around the
greens.
Where he's driven the ball to aplace where he could throw it on
the green on a par four.
(32:15):
But then this beautifullylanguid, silky sort of long golf
swing that gathers and speeds upand then slows down.
When he's got shorter shots inthat sort of 30, 40, 50-yard
range, it's not like the lengthof the backswing changes very
much.
He sort of swings back and thenalmost slows down a little bit
through the ball.
And more often than not, you'llsee him hit balls will come up
(32:37):
10, 15, 20 feet short.
And if he's putting well, that'sokay.
But if you're not making puttsin the final round, you're
squandering opportunities.
But all that being said, you'vegot to hand it to, again, him
because he was sort of in themovie, then out of the movie,
and all of a sudden he's hiteight iron to about 15 feet on
the 71st hole.
Make that your title for thelead.
(32:58):
So he showed some moxie to hangin there, and I'm surprised to
say that, look, I'm a fan.
I am a fan of Jake Knapp, theguy and the golfer.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
Yeah, he's fun to watch.
He shot the course recordearlier this week.
He is certainly gettingcomfortable doing that.
How about Michael ThorBjornsson?
That is a name, Greg, we havenot spoke a lot about.
And he was one of the guys tocome up through PGA Tour U.
(33:30):
So he's got his exempt statusthrough this year, through 2025,
for being number one in lastyear's PGA Tour U.
It has not been a great year forhim.
A lot of inconsistencies, but hegoes out, he shoots a 67 on
Sunday, finishes at 21 underpar, which is a tie for fourth.
(33:50):
He played great, which was niceto see because he hasn't played
great very often.
But again, on a, on a golfcourse, that's perfect for his
game.
He steps up and delivers.
The problem is he just like, itseems like everybody else in
this tournament, maybe evenpocket or who wins.
There's just these mistakes thathave got to eat at you.
(34:13):
Like the, you know, he threeputts nine and he three putts 12
and eight.
He had a, I would say a doableup and down from the back edge
of the green.
So those are the kind ofdisappointing mistakes you just
can't afford to make.
But there weren't very many guysthat made as many birdies as him
today.
He made, what, eight birdies?
(34:35):
He made eight birdies today.
Four on the front, four on theback.
It's a lot.
So the point is a lot of reallygood golf in a really consistent
way.
roundabout way.
Every area of his game this weekwas very good.
And I think he should be reallyproud.
Hopefully he can take this,build a little momentum into the
(34:58):
remaining summer events as well.
Yeah, it's not his best finishof the year, Mark.
He had a T2 in Punta Cana, butit is only...
I'm going to throw out theZurich Classic.
It's only his second top 30 ofthe year.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
Yeah, okay.
I'm going to bet this guy at theJohn Deere, just so you're ready
for this.
Okay.
First off, I think I'vementioned to you guys I caught
up with his new caddy, JJ, andJJ worked for Murakawa.
Right.
And JJ was, like, very happyI've made the move.
(35:36):
Nothing against Colin, veryhappy I've made the move.
And so I was scheduled to callKirk.
And six runs in one directionand seven, the par fives running
like this.
And there's probably about 30feet of rough between the two
entries, 40 feet maybe.
And I'm looking at ThorBjornsson here and Kirk over
(35:57):
here.
And Thor Bjornsson hits the sixiron from 200, whatever it is,
over that tree short of the parfive to about 15 feet.
And I looked at my guy on thecourse.
I'm like, Craig, we've got tomove to this guy.
And Craig's like, I'm cool.
You know, he loves Thor.
So we go over there, and hemakes the two-putt birdie, then
(36:18):
sort of pulls a wedge a littlebit and makes that soft bogey on
eight.
And we're hanging around.
Now, all of a sudden, firstassignment's making birdie.
So I'm waiting to get movedback.
And my producer says to me, hegoes, just hang with Thor for a
little bit.
So Thor Bjornsson, birdie's 10.
We show that.
(36:39):
It's a good six iron to 11.
He makes par 12.
He blows one way right, likeway, way right.
And he's got this lie in therough, kind of matted down.
And in front of him, there's ahardwood tree that's, it looked
60 feet high when I stood 40yards from it.
And Thorbjornsen's got likeabout 180 yards to the pin and
(37:00):
about 165 or so to the front ofthe green.
And this cat winds up there withnine iron.
And it's this bull that takesoff like a homesick angel.
straight over the top of thistree onto the middle of the
green.
And I sort of shook my head.
I was like, holy cow.
And JJ walks past me.
And I'm like, your previous guycouldn't do that.
(37:24):
And he goes, no, we would havesliced it around the tree there.
So what I'm trying to say therefrom this brush I had with
Michael on the golf course, hehas got tools.
He really does.
But he's got to figure outwhat's happening on the greens.
I don't care how well you hitit.
You cannot out hit anything.
a bad putter, and I've said thatcountless times.
Now, he is a guy who's going towin.
(37:45):
Now, if he just wants to finish25th, 30th, 15th on the odd
occasion, hit a great puttaverage, by all means, but
that's not who he is.
He's a winner.
So he's going to have to ironthat stuff out.
He's hired JJ for better greenreading, but he's got to iron
that stuff out because what Isaw was he squandered strokes on
the greens when I was working.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
You know, one other thing, Rick, I know last year he
struggled with some injurytowards the end of the year.
Like at the RSM, he was justcoming back from a knee surgery.
Well, Greg, he just withdrewbefore the tournament started
last week, didn't he?
Was that last week?
(38:27):
Recently, you're right.
I don't know what it was, butbecause you brought that up, it
triggered that memory.
So, you know, I wonder with himif there's been some health
issues.
I don't know that for sure.
I know there was early in theyear.
I don't know if they've lingeredor if they stunted his
performance with his ballstriking because, you know, I
(38:49):
don't think it's been as good asit could be to Mark's point.
And, of course, the putting'sgot to get cleaned up too.
SPEAKER_00 (38:57):
Greg, he also does not.
Everything gets hit full speed.
because he's got a bit of a shotclub face at the top.
He's the prototypical modernplayer.
Six foot two, lean, strong,fast, face closed.
Then from there, you're rotatinglike a banshee to make sure you
don't hit a left.
When he slows down to hit thesort of soft, you know, that
(39:19):
ease one under the wind kind ofshot, he doesn't have that just
yet either.
He's got to learn that sort ofstuff.
Almost like a young JT.
You know, when Jimmy Johnsontook Justin Thomas aside and
said, you're going to learn howto wedge properly.
and stop going full bar withshort clubs, JT turned into a
major champion.
I forecast the same thing forThorbjörnsson.
(39:40):
Wow.
Mark the time.
He's got to be able to do thoseJustin Thomas-esque wedges after
you've whipped the thing downthere 330 off the tee.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
I like that.
Also, Mark, I'll tell you what.
There's something happeninghere, and it backs up what
you're saying.
Because...
The odds are out for the JohnDeere Classic.
Michael Thorpe Bjornsson, whohas literally shown little signs
of life on the PGA Tour, has thethird shortest odds to win this
(40:14):
golf tournament.
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Well, you guys didn't know Moonlight is an odds
maker for Vegas.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
Yeah, apparently you do.
You're setting the lines.
He is shorter than Jake Knapp.
He's shorter than Ryan Gerrard,Michael Kim, Aldrich.
He's shorter than Mark Hubbardand Alex– I mean everybody.
He's shorter than everybody butBen Griffin and Jason Day.
So there is clearly somemomentum here.
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Well, I've had the luxury of having a group of him
and– Oh, gosh, who was the otherone?
Luke Clanton.
A couple of years ago, maybe,final round, where they both
made a run at the title.
And I remember watching ThorBjornsson, and I was like, the
guy just looks so regal.
(40:59):
He's tall in the way he swingsit and the way he hits it, where
Clanton was kind of gritty andblue-collar and stuff.
And I think Clanton finishedrunner-up, and Thor was about
third.
So he's got good course historythere, so maybe that's part of
it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
Okay, well, it now has my full attention.
We've got the three-way playoff.
Thor Bjornsson and Jake Knapp,T4, T4.
Just a couple of notables, andI'll throw them out there.
If you guys want to take thebait, feel free.
But Colin Morikawa shot a 68.
He finished T8.
Hideki Matsuyama had himself anice week.
He finished T13.
(41:35):
Patrick Cantlay, T32.
Those were kind of the biggernames leading into the week.
I can...
Move us on or we can talk aboutanything else from this week's
Rocket Classic if you'd like.
One thing on Morikawa.
Sure.
Go ahead.
New putter after round one.
Yes.
He lost 4.6 strokes putting inround one.
(41:57):
Good reason to put a new one inplay mid-tournament because it's
not going to get much worse thanthat.
Gained strokes the next threedays.
So that could be a sign of life.
Maybe we see Morikawa with themallet for the rest of the year.
You know what I hate?
These guys get it all, man.
(42:17):
He is playing a one-of-oneprototype that is basically a
spider face and shape, but theback of it is like the Odyssey
7S, which is my favorite putter.
I would...
pay any amount of money for thisputter if it was made available.
(42:37):
And of course, Colibor accountis the only one that exists.
Well, maybe he puts it up forsale in a couple of weeks.
There's no guarantee.
SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
Well, you know the story, right?
He actually admitted to Amandaafter Saturday's round, he
travels with like a few, likefour or five.
SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (42:55):
he's done that for a while, I think.
Like if one misbehaves, he kicksthe thing out.
So it might be on the market.
You're pretty safe.
I just have to wait.
I do want to say this aboutColin because I was concerned
that I was starting to seethings and I was losing my mind
a little bit because I remembertaking odds with you guys a
(43:16):
bunch of times where everyonelooks, well, Kyle Porter
especially, where he'd be like,Colin's striking it great.
You know, he's third in strokesgain approach.
And I'm like, Kyle, he's nothitting it with flip, you know,
as far as he's concerned.
And I heard him talking toAmanda going, you know, the
numbers are belying the way I'mhitting it.
He goes, I love to see the ballfading, and right now it's not
(43:36):
fading, but I'm just kind ofriding the wave a little bit.
So I guess statistically he'sgood, but the real news is he
doesn't think he's completelythere with his golf swing just
yet.
He's working really hard.
It's not doing what he wants itto do, yet still, which is, I
guess, emblematic of what agreat striker he is, he's still
able to put up some goodstatistical numbers with the
(43:58):
iron game.
SPEAKER_01 (44:00):
I think he's dangerously close to going down
the Victor Hovland rabbit hole.
And he's not built like Victorto be able to handle that.
SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
No, I would disagree there because Victor, as a golf
coach, you basically know you'vegot about 48 hours to make a
difference as you're out there.
It's like a carousel.
Where Colin was assessing us,then he tried Blackburn, which
didn't last very long.
And then he went back to Rick.
So he's almost more like JordanSpieth where he's sticking his
(44:29):
course a little bit.
He's been with
SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
Sessing now since he was seven.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
Yeah, but if I'm reading the tea leaves a little
bit, I wouldn't want to be Rickright now.
I think he's on the hot seat.
But I still don't see– like Vicis bouncing around between golf
teachers like he's changingclothes.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Yeah, I just think that– I don't think Colin's view
of his own game is reality.
I don't think what henecessarily...
He's not a great narrator.
He did this at Brookline too,where it's like, oh yeah, I
can't swing.
It's drawing and it's trying tofade and I'm leading the US Open
(45:10):
after 54 holes or whatever itis.
He just gets into these weird...
I don't think he's a veryreliable narrator of his own
game.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
He's a victim of his own success.
I mean, how old was he when hewon his first major
championship?
SPEAKER_01 (45:25):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (45:25):
God.
I mean, he won
SPEAKER_01 (45:26):
two of his first eight, didn't he?
SPEAKER_00 (45:27):
Yeah.
I mean, he won basicallyeverything he played in.
And he was unbeatable.
And he was a top, at that stage,what, four or five player in the
world.
Yeah.
Now, once you've been there,think of Jordan Spieth.
Colin's not the first one.
When you've been up there on thetop of Mount Everest to golf,
now you're down the other sideand you're trying to find your
way back up there because youknow, you're like, I've played
(45:50):
well.
I've done this before.
He's the
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
fifth-ranked player in the world, Mark.
He's not on the side.
He just hasn't won, and he'sgoing crazy.
It's driving him insane.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
But you see, the thing is, his calling card is
the ball strike.
Yeah.
It's the ability to play thegame ugly.
And if you have to, we'll get toScotty Scheffler.
He can play ugly golf and win.
You know, he can make it lookkind of ugh.
But then there are times when hestrikes it great, where Collins–
It's pretty, man, and the ball'sstruck right all the time, and
it's through the window he wantsin all these sort of pro terms.
(46:24):
He's playing a bit of ugly golfright now because the ball's
drawing and he doesn't like it,but he's turning it into scores,
which is the most importantstatistic there is.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
He did hit 62 of 72 greens in regulation this week.
He was third in proximity to thehole.
I just want to shake him, Greg,and I just want to say you are,
like, One of the greatestgolfers in the world.
Knock it off.
Knock it off.
Yeah.
Mark talks about the importanceof the putting all the time.
And I think what you say aboutwinning ugly is critical.
(46:56):
Because you may not like it, butthe truth is you're beating the
field with your ball striking.
But You can't just beat thefield with your ball striking.
You know, like you always say,you need to putt.
At the U.S.
Open, Tita Green, he gainedbasically the same amount of
strokes as J.J.
Spahn, who won.
(47:17):
It was 16.15 for Colin TitaGreen and 16.30 for J.J.
Spahn total.
But Colin lost eight strokesputted.
It's like I just I from myvantage point, we need to
prioritize.
We're we're doing all right,even though you don't like it.
(47:38):
We just got to like the key toyou can win the way you're
hitting it, even if it's notexactly what you like.
I also still see a lot of fadesunless shot track trackers
wrong.
I can't think of a single draw.
I've seen him hit.
So there's just, I mean, I getthat you're picky and you want
(47:59):
to be the best you can be.
And I totally appreciate that.
But I just think what he's doingnow, TD Green is good enough to
win.
It's just time to go do it.
So driving himself crazy.
Driving himself crazy.
Indeed.
He's got a couple of big onescoming up, though.
We'll see how it goes.
(48:20):
Here are our picks from thispast week.
We had some good ones here, butnothing that really did the
trick.
Ben Griffin wins for Greg overKeegan Bradley.
Ben Griffin continues his greatrun of golf.
It was another, just another,top 15 for Ben.
T13 to be exact.
(48:41):
Greg, this dude is a machine.
He never gets tired.
He just does it all.
Yeah, not surprised to hear he'splaying the John Deere.
He's going to play them all.
He's going to play them all therest of the way.
Yeah, you lock him in for it.
T15 or better next week too.
It's really incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
I asked him about it.
He goes, I'm not playingScotland, but then he quickly
follows.
He goes, but I'm going overthere early to play a little
links golf.
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
Yeah.
So you might as well just playit.
SPEAKER_01 (49:09):
Yeah.
He's got a member guest at adifferent place in Ireland.
So he's incredible.
I figured it would be a lot forKeegan.
It was brilliant.
Really, the reliability of BenGriffin and the win the week
before for Keegan that sent medown that path.
I'm just really frustrated thatI don't have Grazerman anywhere
(49:29):
on this card.
He was in my fantasy plays.
I loved him.
I looked and I'm like, I didn'twork him in here.
What am I doing?
He should have been in one of myoutrights, even though he lost.
I would have felt better aboutthat red X.
Yeah, well, Mark had him, but itwas in the matchup, which still
(49:50):
pays just as well because it wasan easy one over Davis Thompson,
who finished T34.
So no
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
sweat there, Mark.
Wasn't an indictment of Daviswho played well.
It was just Max and somethingabout Max at this time of the
year plays well.
You know, I think he's watch forhim at 3M.
I don't know if he's playingJohn Deere, but he's the kind of
guy that in these sorts of golfcourses, our late summer swing
(50:16):
on the PGA Tour, that he has awhole lot of fun.
The rest of my card wasabhorrent, but anyway.
Well, that's
SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
okay.
I had a perfect grid if perfectis for red Xs, so it's all good
there.
At least you guys got thematchups in there.
Any final...
3M Open.
Gosh, I'm not ready to do 3MOpen.
We're not there yet, Rick.
Any final Rocket Classicthoughts?
(50:44):
Next week's the John Deere, butwe'll get to that next week.
Anything for this week?
SPEAKER_00 (50:51):
I'll say this.
If you ever wanted proof thatfirm and windy is the only way
you defend golf courses againstPGA Tour pros, you got it today.
You got it this afternoon.
And it was amazing to me howbecause...
The golf course is gettingchopped up and rebuilt from
tomorrow morning.
It's like the rules staff justwent, okay, there's your golf
(51:13):
course.
We're just going to let thisthing go.
And there were some spots todayon some of those greens where it
was firm and it was– Mac Dresmansaid to me, he goes, in the
interview, he goes, at the endof the day, 70-something holes,
the greens were really crispy,sort of difficult and stuff.
So it was challenging out there,and in the end, I feel like It
(51:34):
was actually prettyentertaining.
I'm looking forward to seeingwhat the rating is to tomorrow
morning.
SPEAKER_01 (51:43):
What else did I see?
I saw Aaron Wise made the cut,which is very cool.
Yes.
Nice to see Aaron Wise backplaying some golf tournaments,
playing well.
He finished at 10 under par.
I saw that.
That was pretty cool.
What else?
Anything?
One other thing.
I checked out the double digitsafter two days.
(52:07):
Everybody inside the top 12 wasat double digits after two days.
These log jams, you could shootlow numbers, but you can't get
behind in these kind of things.
SPEAKER_00 (52:24):
Did I lose more wine to you?
SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
No, we never had a wine bet on it.
But I looked at it because Iknow we had that discussion, and
I was, quite frankly, a littlenervous that somebody was going
to go crazy.
But I think those firm and fastconditions you talked about,
Mark, really played in my favoron that
SPEAKER_00 (52:42):
one.
Yeah, they did.
If it was going to be soft andthey were going to be guys–
because what was low today?
I don't think it was that low.
It wasn't–
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
Seven under early.
Very early, yeah.
Yeah, there were two sevenunders.
Higgs and– Akshay.
Yeah.
They were done.
They were at home by the timeMark got on air.
SPEAKER_02 (53:04):
Tell you that.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
All right, gents.
Well, listen, we'll be back nextweek.
It's John Deere Classic, andwe've got the Tuesday show, the
Friday show, Sunday show to getyou all up to date on everything
that you need for now.
Big thanks, producer Mina.
She does all the hard workbehind the scenes.
That's great.
It's Mark Gimelman.
I'm Rick Gaiman.
This is The Second Cut.
We'll catch you next time.
UNKNOWN (53:28):
Thank you.
Welcome in.
It's the Second Cut Podcast.
I'm Rick Gaiman.
That right there is GregDucharme.
And we got bonus golf played inthe Motor City.
Greg, good to see you, buddy.
Good to see you too, Rick.
What a week and what a finish.
It was rather exciting because Ihad no clue who was going to
(00:20):
win.
And this thing, for the guysthat were near the top, it was
wide open most of the day.
72 holes were not enough.
Five playoff holes for a totalof 77.
It was a log jam all day long.
We knew that was going to be thecase.
We had guys like Michael ThorpeBjornsson throw his hat into the
(00:44):
ring.
We had Jackson Suber and JakeKnapp all make runs at this
championship.
It was a three-man playoff, butnone of those names that I have
just mentioned were in saidplayoff.
No.
You know, one thing that wasreally interesting was looking
at the scores.
There was not a lot of scorevariance.
(01:05):
But you just look through thisleaderboard.
It's three under, five under,five under, five under, four
under, six under, four under,five under, five under, four
under, three under.
Like everybody in the top 10shot somewhere between three and
six under.
Not a whole lot of variance.
And I think just about everysingle player that I named,
including the winner, is ruiningsome shots out there.
(01:31):
Everybody seemed to be lettingopportunities slip throughout
this day.
And that was honestly more ofthe story than going out there
and taking it.
Well, the playoff...
was between Chris Kirk, MaxGrazerman, and Aldrich
Potgeeter.
And let's just get right to thechampion, Greg.
(01:52):
He deserves it.
The 20-year-old out of SouthAfrica gets his first PGA Tour
victory after a little bit of arocky start in the final round.
Made two bogeys in his firstfive holes before settling down
into this and kind of gettingthe greens figured out.
(02:13):
Yes, very interesting day.
You know, gets off to a greatstart at one, nearly hits it out
of bounds at two.
And it's not out of bounds, buthe can't play it.
And so he's got to take it onplayable.
I thought actually a pretty goodbogey there.
And then, you know, there weresome mistakes, like four was
(02:33):
bad.
pretty brutal right in front ofthe green and two on the par
five.
Can't get that up and down.
Um, then five, he's just left tothe green and it's kind of like,
you know, the weakness,everybody knows the weakness for
Pocketer is his short game.
Um, he's just left to the greenon five.
It's like 10 feet by, uh, and itshowed up again at, at 15, he
(02:57):
hit just a Just a terrible chip.
But fortunately, come playofftime, he was able to hit some
big ones.
He was able to take care of thepar fives with the exception of
number four.
So he took care of the lastthree par fives.
And I'll tell you what, Rick, Ilove what he does with the
driver.
It was impressive.
(03:17):
He didn't miss a fairway afterthe 10th hole in regulation
anyway.
he was striping it and the wayhe rolls the rock, it's, it's
pretty impressive stuff.
I think the other thing that Ireally like about it, well, a
lot, I like a lot of stuff, butthe, I thought he made some
pretty solid, like in gameadjustments, Greg.
So clearly he, and maybe it'snerves or maybe it's whatever,
(03:40):
but you know, you're strugglingwith kind of distance control on
the putting surfaces.
He was a little bit nervy onsome of those shots out of the
gate.
And then if you look at the wayhe played 50, so he played 15
and, three times at the end ofregulation and then twice in the
playoff.
The first two times, he couldn'tfigure out how to flight one
back there into that pin,figures it out in the playoff.
(04:05):
The second time, hits it to 17feet and eventually rolls the
putt in.
yes which was really nice i itseemed like he played it three
different ways yeah um and andthat was a lot harder shot than
it looked if you just watch theway balls were coming in there
if they landed up on top theywere skipping over the back and
if you played them short there'sa a slope there that was
(04:29):
crushing it so it was reallyhard to get it close there there
was a really small landing areato get it on the right level on
that hole, which was reallycool.
Grazerman got it right inregulation.
Maybe that was in one of theplayoff holes.
I think it was in one of theplayoff holes.
First time they played the firsttime, right?
(04:49):
He, he got the landed it just ontop of that Ridge and it skipped
up and spun.
So that was really nice.
But look, those are things thatpocket or needs.
He hits it so long.
We talk about this with Brysonand iron play.
You end up with almosteverything is an in-between
shot.
If you have 20-yard gaps betweenyour clubs, it's very rare that
(05:15):
you have a perfect number.
So you have to be able to play alot of different shots.
And he can.
He knows how to.
I don't think it's as sharp asit can be.
But the new set of irons that heput in play this week, the
spinnier golf ball seemed toreally be making a difference.
And they seem to really helpthem this week.
Puts himself on a really shortlist of international PGA tour
(05:36):
winners, uh, before they turned21.
I think it's like Seve, Rory,Tom, Kim, Joaquin, Neiman.
Um, I'm missing somebody big inthere as well, but it's, it's, I
don't think so.
Is that the list?
Yeah, I think that's the list.
It's, it's a who's who, right?
I mean, that now there's, Doexpectations change when you win
(05:59):
this young?
You know, I don't know for PockEater.
It's very interesting.
And I know I'm not saying it theway Mark would want me to, but.
That's okay.
We are trying to.
So the Mark situation is he wastrying to fly out tonight.
(06:19):
but the playoff, he might'vemissed that flight.
So he might be joining us.
If we, if we get him, we'll addhim, but we'll see if we can get
Mark today.
So as for his expectations,Aldrich's expectations, I, I
think there's a way you couldlook at this.
Like it's a perfect golf coursefor him and, and he got a win.
You know, he lost in a playoffin Mexico, which was a perfect
(06:42):
golf course for him.
And he nearly got a win.
You know, he had a nice finishat, at colonial as well, but
he's, He's missed like sevencuts this year on the PGA Tour.
So I think there will be anunderstanding from the golfing
public that he's a really,really talented player, but
there's still a lot of work todo in his game.
(07:03):
And if he gets that done, itbecomes very scary for everybody
else.
But this is still a little, youknow, it's not as sharp as, it's
not nearly as sharp as it couldbe.
Yeah, it's, you know, there's alot to be excited about.
He's 20.
He's, you know, he's a winnernow.
He is probably the longest guyin professional golf, which is
(07:25):
only going to, you know, benefithim in the modern game, right?
So there's a lot to be excitedabout, but there's a lot to be,
not that I should have comparedhim to Gordon Sargent, but like,
you know, things, things, thingsare weird.
Things happen.
It's so easy to just anoint theguy who wins an hour ago as the
(07:46):
next best thing when we've seenso many times how hard this is.
Yes, yes.
There's a lot that can go wrong.
He has missed nine cuts thisyear.
Nine cuts.
He's made four.
Two of those four, he's ended upin a playoff, and he won one.
(08:07):
Look, I think there's a lot ofgood in that, but I'm not ready
to go say the floodgates aregoing to open at this point.
This is not a complete player.
I've also, by no means, tried tobash the guy that just won.
I'm extremely impressed.
(08:28):
I'm just trying to temper theexpectations here that this was
a great week and he's a greattalent, but I don't think he's
the...
The next Savvy Ballesteros.
Yeah.
Well, we'll find out.
See, the thing with this one isyou just have to circle back in
20 years to find out whether ornot he's the next Savvy
Ballesteros.
(08:48):
Put it on the calendar.
Yeah, I'll set a reminder forsure.
June 29th, 2045.
We'll talk about it again.
We'll bring it up.
Like 10,000 episodes from now.
The...
The man he beat, well, he beattwo men in the playoff, but
we'll get to Chris Kirk in asecond.
He exited a little bit earlierthan the other two, was Max
Grazerman, who I'll tell youwhat, for how long Aldrich
(09:10):
Pocketer is, this Max Grazermandude can keep up with him pretty
darn well.
Yeah, he kept up.
There were a couple times it waslike, wait, is Pocketer going
first?
Yeah.
And if you look at the stats forthe day, I was looking at
(09:31):
driving distance all drives.
Because it's fun just to seewhere everybody finished.
Jake Knapp actually led.
He finished fourth, won out ofthe playoff.
Nikolaj Hojgaard was second.
He was 24th.
Pak Eder, who won, was third.
Cam Champ finished tied 19th.
He was fourth.
Goderup was tied 26th.
(09:51):
He was fifth.
Grazerman was sixth.
So Grazerman, on all of his teeshots...
for the week was 317.6.
Pocketer was 321.5.
So absolutely moving it.
And that was great, which ispart of the reason why we were
so high on him early in theweek, Rick.
(10:13):
Part of the reason was hisputting, which seemed to return.
He was second in the field instrokes game putting.
Yet at the same time, there wereplenty of opportunities in the
playoff.
But More importantly, greatopportunities early on in this.
He nearly drove the green oneight and doesn't convert the
(10:36):
birdie.
Misses a real close one at two.
Doesn't make birdie there.
And then all the putts in theplayoff.
He had a nine-footer to win thetournament and missed.
A lot that will sting.
The ones in the playoff inparticular, maybe the one on 18
in regulation, He was on the proside of all of them.
(11:00):
They were all pretty darn goodputts that could have dropped,
didn't, and that's thedifference out there.
I was holding a 40-1 MaxGrazerman ticket, so obviously I
had a rooting interest in this.
But this is what we talked aboutearlier in the week.
He drives it so well.
He putts it so well.
(11:20):
That's a very unique combinationon the PGA Tour, and this is
basically the best golf coursein the world for that.
Yeah, and he showed up.
You know, he didn't evenbring...
Another reason why I liked himthis week is his iron play has
been pretty good the last coupleweeks.
And it was just okay this week.
You know, he gained strokes tothe field, but barely.
(11:41):
Like, half a shot.
He hit 54 greens.
Potgeeter hit 62.
You know, there was a little bitof a...
laps in those middle two roundsin that category that could
definitely improve.
But I love the way he competes.
I love the way he swings it.
(12:02):
He's got a great intensity abouthim.
Mark interviewed him after theround.
I would not want to interviewMax Grazerman in a loser
interview.
He's a really intense guy.
I didn't hear what he said.
I didn't have the sound on.
I was doing HQ.
I saw that Mark was interviewinghim.
Do you know what he said?
What did he say?
Basically, it was that this onewould sting for a while.
(12:25):
Yeah, it really hurts.
He gave it some good rolls thatdidn't go and he'll get back to
work in two weeks.
But you could you could see itin his face.
It was it really bothered him.
OK, so I'm trying to rememberall of this because I was at the
Wyndham Championship.
He was the one who coughed it upon Sunday.
(12:48):
Yeah, he had a four-shot lead.
Four-shot lead like at the turn,right?
It was late.
Deep.
Wouldn't it all start goingdownhill at like 14?
And that was when Kuchar did notfinish and basically said
something like, I was trying toshow Max it was okay to take a
(13:10):
breath or something like that.
Aaron Rye goes on to win andMatt Kuchar comes out and taps
one in the next morning.
in six minutes or whatever okayso so now that i'm thinking
about that this is a waydifferent result right i mean he
coughed up windham this was yeahhe had a missed couple missed
(13:30):
opportunities but man this was away better sunday for him in in
terms of trying to get a victorywell he competed and and there
were some moments when it lookedlike this is going to get away
He was going to come to 18 andbe two back kind of thing.
It was trending that way.
And then he made the long putton 16.
(13:51):
It was like, okay, now we gotlife.
Misses the fairway at 17, stillmakes birdie.
Now he's tied for the lead andhas a chance to win it in
regulation.
And no bogeys on the scorecard.
He did not cough this up.
There were like a couple of, youknow, he could have won.
(14:12):
I don't know if I'd go as far asto say he should have won.
Really, he missed a five-footerat two, and he missed a
six-footer and a four-footer.
A four-footer at eight.
And it's so easy to say eitherone of those goes and he wins.
But then maybe 16 doesn't go in.
(14:32):
Yeah, and you could also find,I'm sure you could find those
for every guy in the field.
You can.
Every guy on the leaderboard.
Chris Kirk might be anexception.
everybody had like kind ofagonizing opportunities that
they missed.
Yeah.
And they're even more agonizingbecause like a par hurts and a
(14:54):
Boki is basically ends yourtournament immediately.
So it is agonizing when you'regetting so many great looks and
they're just not falling.
Well, especially when you lookat, and this is part of the
reason why they're redoing thisgolf course, right?
I, I think the first time I sawa fairway bunker shot was Pock
Eater in the playoff.
(15:14):
Oh, dude, I was looking through.
I was just clicking through shotlink.
And how many bunkers did nothave a single ball in them all
week long?
There is no trouble off the tee.
Yeah.
And so now there's no troubleoff the tee.
You look at some of these holeslike one and one is a wedge in.
(15:35):
I mean, let's just look throughwhat Pocketer had.
Pocketer had 46 yards intonumber one.
46 yards.
A lot of guys got it up there inthat, Nate, 40, 50, 60 yards.
You don't convert that.
You don't get that up and down.
It hurts right out of the rip.
Two is a little longer, but youstill, you can give yourself a
(15:56):
wedge in.
Three, Pocketer has 60 yards.
You know, you might have 80yards.
Chris Kirk had like 110, Ithink.
Those bunkers are not in play.
It's like, got to convert there.
Four is a par five.
Five's not that long.
It's a 130 into six.
(16:17):
Seven's a par five.
You can hit iron in there.
Eight, you could drive it up bythe green.
I mean, Pocketer, I think he hitiron off that tee, and he had
100 yards in.
You could drive, Grazerman droveit up by the green.
It's like all these holes youhave little flip wedges in or
they're par fives.
(16:38):
And it's just a killer when youdon't convert.
And so that's why everybodyleaves feeling like they could
have won this tournament.
Well, we're going to try to adda third man to our playoff here.
I see him backstage.
Mark, give me a thumbs up ifyou're if you're right.
OK, Mark Immelman is here.
Hello, Mark.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Did I tell anybody how much I hate playoffs?
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Five holes, Mark.
Five of them.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Didn't feel like it was going to end either.
I mean, and my guy got knockedout early, but I'm the loser
interview guy, so I had to lurkaround.
You had to speak to some guy whowas going to eventually bow out.
I guess in the end it was anexciting day, but, man, what a
day.
It was unreal stuff.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
how do you draw the short straw of having to do the
loser interviews?
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Uh...
I think my boss trusts me morethan Colt Nost.
Okay, fair, probably, anddefinitely accurate.
And I interview for a living,and I did one way back in the
day with Danny McCarthy, andkind of like Ron Firestone, I
made him cry.
And this has been my job, to tryand get the guy to cry.
(17:49):
Okay,
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
sometimes easier said than done.
Well, the South African phenom,the 20-year-old, Gets the job
done, Mark.
How about that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So proud of him.
You know, he sort of weatheredthe storm a little bit.
I was concerned.
The first few holes, he lookedsort of nervy.
The club wasn't gettingreleased.
I mean, he was blocking ballsout to the right-hand side
because when he swings well,everyone thinks he fades the
ball.
But, you know, he fades the ballif he has to.
His preferred shot moves fromright to left a touch.
(18:22):
But the first few holes, youcould see him just not let one
go.
And I had said to Dottie, I feellike the key to him playing well
is just freedom, you know, justswinging free.
I heard Greg talk about, youknow, the golf course now before
the changes will happen, sort ofdefenseless if you're hitting at
a certain distance.
Yet he didn't look like he wasin full command.
(18:43):
But then in the end, he sort ofdug in and showed his class to
finish this thing off.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Yeah, he really did.
We talked a little bit about hisin-game adjustments and just the
ability to– I'm thinking of theshots that he hit on 15,
basically three different wayshe tried to access that pin on
15 and really just figured itout as the round went on with
especially his distance and hisspeed control on the putting
surfaces.
(19:07):
Sorry
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
to interrupt.
You bring up a really good pointthat I'd love to elaborate on
there with Aldrich because ifyou just throw the name out here
to the folks in the know and theinstant answer is going to be,
well, Longest driver in thetour.
He bombs it.
But I don't, I want people torealize how many shots this guy
(19:29):
has.
Because like in the playoffthere, for argument's sakes,
when Chris Kirk is hitting nineiron.
Now Kirk is not short.
He's picked up power over recentyears.
And Aldrich is sort of brushinga nine iron in there that goes a
little shorter than Kirk's did.
That shows you how he has theability to change speeds and
flight the ball.
And he's not afraid to go low inthere.
(19:49):
I feel like that's sort of bornof growing up in Perth a little
bit with the windy conditionsout there.
So, I mean, he's got a lot ofshots.
He really does.
And he'll get ripped for hisshort game because he plays with
that big, strong grip.
But his touch around the greenis incredible as well.
So the boy's got a lot of shots.
And as he continues to grow andmature, golly, with that driver
(20:10):
that he has, which he tells meis his favorite club.
Yeah, it better be.
Well, think about this.
I know another guy.
young man who drove the balllike a wild man, power-wise, and
is a Grand Slam champion now.
In Rory, Ulrich has the samesort of gear as off the tee.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
That'd be my favorite club.
If I could hit it about 40 yardsoff the tee as well.
Well, we're going to get to theman that you were with in the
playoff here, Mark.
And, uh, right now, becauseit's, it's, it's Chris Kirk and
I'm going to bounce this overyou first here, Greg, because,
uh, Chris Kirk got in early andhad to sit around and wait
sometimes figuratively,sometimes literally crisscross
(20:49):
applesauce on the driving range.
And he bowed out of this, uh, onthe 15th hole.
It's the par three, that backleft pin location you think
might work perfect for the drawkind of flares one out to the
right uh some 56 feet where youstart to get more likely to
three putt than to make it andhe does three jack for for bogey
(21:12):
that cannot extend uh his hisplayoff run
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
well no so sorry this this is this is sort of
inside golf a little bit as itpertains to kirk um you know
when he was waiting for theplayoff We're there on what is
the third tee of the tournament.
And they just put you on the teeand you hit balls down three
fairway.
And he did a bit and then heturned and hit some balls to a
(21:36):
green that's on the othercourse, the south course, little
wedges underneath trees.
And then with the wind, the wayit was blowing on the practice
tee, it was sort of like intooff the left a little bit.
And then he turned around andhit balls down another fairway.
I think it was like the secondor the fourth.
And I'm watching him, and he'ssort of hitting balls with the
(21:57):
wind sort of over his rightshoulder, almost like the
approach shot on 18.
And I'm like, well, this ispretty savvy.
You know, he's preparing himselffor the club he's about to have,
which he hit really well in thefirst hole of the playoff.
But then I asked Mike, hiscaddie, I'm like, so this is
what I'm thinking.
Am I right?
And he goes, yeah, well, kindof.
That makes sense.
But Chris just hates aleft-to-right wind.
(22:20):
And as soon as they got there on15, where it's like into him
like this, and you would thinkas a drawer of the golf ball,
you can just turn it into thatthing and have the two cancel
out.
It just doesn't fit for himbecause, you know, as he hits it
from the inside, the wind's outhere, you're a little late with
the club face.
It's easy for the drawer tostart to push the path way to
the right-hand side, which iskind of what he did.
(22:41):
I mean, I watched his legs fireway before they should have on
that nine iron, and it was amissed strike.
But it's sort of insideknowledge here that Chris is not
the happiest camper in the worldwhen the wind's into off the
left-hand side or off the left.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Very interesting.
Because on 18, it was off theright.
And he hit two.
I mean, in regulation, he hit abeauty in there.
And he hit a beauty in there inthe first playoff fold, too.
I mean, two really high-qualityshots.
I loved what Chris Kirk didtoday.
I just I felt like he was at adisadvantage.
(23:22):
He's not short by any means, buthe is compared to Grazerman and
Pocketer.
Sorry for the pronunciation,Mark.
He's just a lot shorter thanthose guys.
And so he didn't have quite thepitch and putt par fours that
they did.
And so he had to do it withwedge play and he didn't make
very many mistakes.
which was very impressive to me.
(23:43):
So I loved the way he playedthis round.
He had the driver on an absolutestring.
It's just a shame that he had togo out on a three putt.
It felt like when he missed thatputt on 18 in the playoff, he
was done.
There was a different look inhis face.
It looked like he knew that thatwas it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:08):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
which is strange.
I don't normally see that fromguys.
And it was like, wow, that facelooks very emotional, especially
for Chris Kirk, who doesn't showvery many emotions.
a gritty, a gritty final roundthere.
So 33, 34, 67 for, for ChrisKirk, just the one blemish on
the card market.
(24:29):
I will point out he will getcredit.
There was a couple of questionsabout this.
He gets T2 credit.
Doesn't matter where you finishin the playoff.
He and Max Grazerman will splitsecond place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Yeah.
You know, it's a guy who hasn'thad his best stuff, but I
remember, I don't know if it wasthis show or someone else where
he, I sort of picked him onFriday evening just because of
the player that he is and howdecorated he is and just how
mentally savvy he is and how heapproaches the game, despite
having these bombers that he'slining up against.
(25:02):
And he said something to me whenhe was waiting for the potential
playoff.
And it was like, hey, Chris, howare you doing?
Nice to watch you play.
And he goes, man, it was fun.
And he goes, I just hope I getsome extra golf.
UNKNOWN (25:17):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
And the way he said it was like, yikes, it's so good
to be back in this positionagain.
And I've been grinding so hardand now I'm here and I played so
solidly there in the finalround.
Maybe I left one or two outthere, but I just hope I get an
extra go.
And then it's amazing in theseplayoffs where at this level, if
(25:40):
you have a shot and you don'ttake it, it's not often that
you'll get another chance.
And when he hit that nine ironinto 18, in the playoff, that
shot was one of the better shotsI've seen this year.
The way it was struck, the wayit turned, the way it was
controlled distance-wise.
And then to just miss that putt,I thought he'd won the thing
(26:01):
with that shot and he was goingto make the putt.
And then when he missed, youalmost got the sense that, hold
on, this was the chance now.
Because now you're going intoholes where it's the par three,
but then you've got 16, which isplaying into a breeze a little
bit, so it's playing longer.
And then 14 is downwind, andyou've got Guys hitting nine
iron in there where Chris wentin with a hybrid club during
(26:21):
regulation.
So he's picked up playing great.
I think he's obviouslydisappointed now.
In my interview with him, hesaid as much.
But I think when everything sortof clears out in the wash, he's
going to go, all right, I'mback.
Game's good.
Nice way to– I've climbed thepoints ranking.
I've almost booked myself aplace in the playoff.
(26:42):
Now it's time to make some haytoward the end of the season.
SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Yeah, played well at Oakmont, and then obviously a
great finish here in Detroit.
All three of these guys, Greg,get some pretty significant
bumps in the FedExCup standings,and this is the time of year
where you better get it becausewe're running out of events
here.
So Chris Kirk goes from 101 to67, Grazerman goes 64th to 48th,
and Aldrich goes 73rd to 36th.
(27:05):
Obviously, getting into theplayoffs is one thing, but top
50 gets you into the signatureevents, and then top 30 is...
Now anybody has a chance becauseif you get yourself de-selected,
you're starting at even par.
Yeah, no more handicap forScotty Scheffler like you'd see
in those commercials.
And he needs it.
That guy stinks.
Yeah, he needs all the help hecan get.
(27:27):
It's a really big deal becausenow 70, if you're 70th, I feel
like you have a legitimatechance at winning the Tour
Championship.
I mean, you've got to playgreat, but you Why not?
You know, why, why can't you dothat?
So, um, it's a really, reallycool thing.
(27:48):
And all you got to do is survivein advance.
So these guys now havepositioned themselves where
they'd be in the playoffs if itended today.
Um, but they have some, somesummer golf coming up.
And I think for Chris Kirk, thatmeans there's a number of really
good spots for him.
I like his game at, um, At 3M,for instance, his game could
(28:11):
suit Windham if he has to playthere.
I think he could play reallywell on golf courses like that.
Grazerman, I feel like he canplay anywhere.
Pocketer, we'll see.
It doesn't seem like it rightnow, but it's obviously a
developing talent, and itwouldn't surprise me if he
(28:33):
showed the game to compete onYou know, in an open
championship, for instance.
So we'll see how that all playsout.
But yeah, big moves for theseguys this week.
And he certainly gets the longerleash, considering the fact that
the win gets him the addedbenefits of sponsors, or excuse
me, exemptions and everythingelse that comes along with
(28:56):
winning on the PGA Tour.
This was a three-man playoff,but at one point, it looks like
it might be a nine-man playoff.
I want to hit a couple of theguys that just missed out on
this, and we're going to startwith Jake Knapp here, Mark.
Yes?
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
I've just got to get someone at my hotel room door.
Give me two texts.
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
All right.
No problem.
He's muted.
I don't know.
Maybe he ordered DoorDash.
I don't know what's going on.
But Mark is going to his hotelroom door.
Jake Knapp here, Greg.
A easy 68 because Jake Knappdoesn't do anything difficult,
man.
This is smooth and cool.
And he gave himself a lot ofopportunities coming down the
(29:32):
home stretch.
Could not get himself into theplayoff falls.
Just one shot short.
Well, first things first, heshot 72 in the opening round and
got himself within one of aplayoff.
I couldn't be more impressedwith that.
The way he finished round three,going birdie, birdie, birdie to
close, is just sensationalstuff.
(29:53):
And following up a good roundwith another one, it was
excellent.
The big difference betweenSunday and Sunday, And Friday,
when he shot 61, was with thewedge play.
Because just like Friday, hedrove it beautifully.
And a lot of those opportunitiescame from long, really long tee
(30:17):
shots that found the fairway.
But with his wedge play, hewasn't able to get those close
today.
Perhaps it had something to dowith the little firmer golf
course, some different holelocations.
That all comes into play.
But you're sitting there on alot of these holes that you're
not taking advantage of.
Like number one, for instance,you're inside of 30 yards away
(30:40):
from the flag and don't get itup and down.
That's a killer.
On three, you're right up there50 yards away.
Don't get it up and down.
for a birdie that's a that's akiller uh and and so those kind
of things really hurt the bogeysof course at 9 and 11 hurt as
well um but yeah jake knappfought really hard and ended up
(31:03):
putting together all thingsconsidered a really great
tournament yeah speaking of thebombers mark how about jake
knapp who was number one indriving distance this week
that's all drives uh not soshabby in the short game
categories either.
11 out of 14 in terms ofscrambling.
That was 14th best.
(31:25):
And then gained two strokes withthe putter.
31st in putting.
So a complete game here fromJake Knapp.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Jake Knapp is a baller.
I mean, he's just so easy goingtoo.
I had a conversation with him onthe range prior to Saturday's
round.
He's just so easy, man.
He's not phased about stuff.
He just plays golf.
And today in warm-ups, he washitting drives that were
launching at 196 miles an hour.
(31:53):
Okay?
So the guy's got gears.
It is unreal how hard he hits itwith that languid pass of his.
But he's strong.
He's fast.
He's got all these things.
But those numbers sort of beliestuff a little bit here because
I want to build on Greg's pointabout the stuff around the
greens.
Where he's driven the ball to aplace where he could throw it on
the green on a par four.
(32:15):
But then this beautifullylanguid, silky sort of long golf
swing that gathers and speeds upand then slows down.
When he's got shorter shots inthat sort of 30, 40, 50-yard
range, it's not like the lengthof the backswing changes very
much.
He sort of swings back and thenalmost slows down a little bit
through the ball.
And more often than not, you'llsee him hit balls will come up
(32:37):
10, 15, 20 feet short.
And if he's putting well, that'sokay.
But if you're not making puttsin the final round, you're
squandering opportunities.
But all that being said, you'vegot to hand it to, again, him
because he was sort of in themovie, then out of the movie,
and all of a sudden he's hiteight iron to about 15 feet on
the 71st hole.
Make that your title for thelead.
(32:58):
So he showed some moxie to hangin there, and I'm surprised to
say that, look, I'm a fan.
I am a fan of Jake Knapp, theguy and the golfer.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
Yeah, he's fun to watch.
He shot the course recordearlier this week.
He is certainly gettingcomfortable doing that.
How about Michael ThorBjornsson?
That is a name, Greg, we havenot spoke a lot about.
And he was one of the guys tocome up through PGA Tour U.
(33:30):
So he's got his exempt statusthrough this year, through 2025,
for being number one in lastyear's PGA Tour U.
It has not been a great year forhim.
A lot of inconsistencies, but hegoes out, he shoots a 67 on
Sunday, finishes at 21 underpar, which is a tie for fourth.
(33:50):
He played great, which was niceto see because he hasn't played
great very often.
But again, on a, on a golfcourse, that's perfect for his
game.
He steps up and delivers.
The problem is he just like, itseems like everybody else in
this tournament, maybe evenpocket or who wins.
There's just these mistakes thathave got to eat at you.
(34:13):
Like the, you know, he threeputts nine and he three putts 12
and eight.
He had a, I would say a doableup and down from the back edge
of the green.
So those are the kind ofdisappointing mistakes you just
can't afford to make.
But there weren't very many guysthat made as many birdies as him
today.
He made, what, eight birdies?
(34:35):
He made eight birdies today.
Four on the front, four on theback.
It's a lot.
So the point is a lot of reallygood golf in a really consistent
way.
roundabout way.
Every area of his game this weekwas very good.
And I think he should be reallyproud.
Hopefully he can take this,build a little momentum into the
(34:58):
remaining summer events as well.
Yeah, it's not his best finishof the year, Mark.
He had a T2 in Punta Cana, butit is only...
I'm going to throw out theZurich Classic.
It's only his second top 30 ofthe year.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
Yeah, okay.
I'm going to bet this guy at theJohn Deere, just so you're ready
for this.
Okay.
First off, I think I'vementioned to you guys I caught
up with his new caddy, JJ, andJJ worked for Murakawa.
Right.
And JJ was, like, very happyI've made the move.
(35:36):
Nothing against Colin, veryhappy I've made the move.
And so I was scheduled to callKirk.
And six runs in one directionand seven, the par fives running
like this.
And there's probably about 30feet of rough between the two
entries, 40 feet maybe.
And I'm looking at ThorBjornsson here and Kirk over
(35:57):
here.
And Thor Bjornsson hits the sixiron from 200, whatever it is,
over that tree short of the parfive to about 15 feet.
And I looked at my guy on thecourse.
I'm like, Craig, we've got tomove to this guy.
And Craig's like, I'm cool.
You know, he loves Thor.
So we go over there, and hemakes the two-putt birdie, then
(36:18):
sort of pulls a wedge a littlebit and makes that soft bogey on
eight.
And we're hanging around.
Now, all of a sudden, firstassignment's making birdie.
So I'm waiting to get movedback.
And my producer says to me, hegoes, just hang with Thor for a
little bit.
So Thor Bjornsson, birdie's 10.
We show that.
(36:39):
It's a good six iron to 11.
He makes par 12.
He blows one way right, likeway, way right.
And he's got this lie in therough, kind of matted down.
And in front of him, there's ahardwood tree that's, it looked
60 feet high when I stood 40yards from it.
And Thorbjornsen's got likeabout 180 yards to the pin and
(37:00):
about 165 or so to the front ofthe green.
And this cat winds up there withnine iron.
And it's this bull that takesoff like a homesick angel.
straight over the top of thistree onto the middle of the
green.
And I sort of shook my head.
I was like, holy cow.
And JJ walks past me.
And I'm like, your previous guycouldn't do that.
(37:24):
And he goes, no, we would havesliced it around the tree there.
So what I'm trying to say therefrom this brush I had with
Michael on the golf course, hehas got tools.
He really does.
But he's got to figure outwhat's happening on the greens.
I don't care how well you hitit.
You cannot out hit anything.
a bad putter, and I've said thatcountless times.
Now, he is a guy who's going towin.
(37:45):
Now, if he just wants to finish25th, 30th, 15th on the odd
occasion, hit a great puttaverage, by all means, but
that's not who he is.
He's a winner.
So he's going to have to ironthat stuff out.
He's hired JJ for better greenreading, but he's got to iron
that stuff out because what Isaw was he squandered strokes on
the greens when I was working.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
You know, one other thing, Rick, I know last year he
struggled with some injurytowards the end of the year.
Like at the RSM, he was justcoming back from a knee surgery.
Well, Greg, he just withdrewbefore the tournament started
last week, didn't he?
Was that last week?
(38:27):
Recently, you're right.
I don't know what it was, butbecause you brought that up, it
triggered that memory.
So, you know, I wonder with himif there's been some health
issues.
I don't know that for sure.
I know there was early in theyear.
I don't know if they've lingeredor if they stunted his
performance with his ballstriking because, you know, I
(38:49):
don't think it's been as good asit could be to Mark's point.
And, of course, the putting'sgot to get cleaned up too.
SPEAKER_00 (38:57):
Greg, he also does not.
Everything gets hit full speed.
because he's got a bit of a shotclub face at the top.
He's the prototypical modernplayer.
Six foot two, lean, strong,fast, face closed.
Then from there, you're rotatinglike a banshee to make sure you
don't hit a left.
When he slows down to hit thesort of soft, you know, that
(39:19):
ease one under the wind kind ofshot, he doesn't have that just
yet either.
He's got to learn that sort ofstuff.
Almost like a young JT.
You know, when Jimmy Johnsontook Justin Thomas aside and
said, you're going to learn howto wedge properly.
and stop going full bar withshort clubs, JT turned into a
major champion.
I forecast the same thing forThorbjörnsson.
(39:40):
Wow.
Mark the time.
He's got to be able to do thoseJustin Thomas-esque wedges after
you've whipped the thing downthere 330 off the tee.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
I like that.
Also, Mark, I'll tell you what.
There's something happeninghere, and it backs up what
you're saying.
Because...
The odds are out for the JohnDeere Classic.
Michael Thorpe Bjornsson, whohas literally shown little signs
of life on the PGA Tour, has thethird shortest odds to win this
(40:14):
golf tournament.
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Well, you guys didn't know Moonlight is an odds
maker for Vegas.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
Yeah, apparently you do.
You're setting the lines.
He is shorter than Jake Knapp.
He's shorter than Ryan Gerrard,Michael Kim, Aldrich.
He's shorter than Mark Hubbardand Alex– I mean everybody.
He's shorter than everybody butBen Griffin and Jason Day.
So there is clearly somemomentum here.
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Well, I've had the luxury of having a group of him
and– Oh, gosh, who was the otherone?
Luke Clanton.
A couple of years ago, maybe,final round, where they both
made a run at the title.
And I remember watching ThorBjornsson, and I was like, the
guy just looks so regal.
(40:59):
He's tall in the way he swingsit and the way he hits it, where
Clanton was kind of gritty andblue-collar and stuff.
And I think Clanton finishedrunner-up, and Thor was about
third.
So he's got good course historythere, so maybe that's part of
it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
Okay, well, it now has my full attention.
We've got the three-way playoff.
Thor Bjornsson and Jake Knapp,T4, T4.
Just a couple of notables, andI'll throw them out there.
If you guys want to take thebait, feel free.
But Colin Morikawa shot a 68.
He finished T8.
Hideki Matsuyama had himself anice week.
He finished T13.
(41:35):
Patrick Cantlay, T32.
Those were kind of the biggernames leading into the week.
I can...
Move us on or we can talk aboutanything else from this week's
Rocket Classic if you'd like.
One thing on Morikawa.
Sure.
Go ahead.
New putter after round one.
Yes.
He lost 4.6 strokes putting inround one.
(41:57):
Good reason to put a new one inplay mid-tournament because it's
not going to get much worse thanthat.
Gained strokes the next threedays.
So that could be a sign of life.
Maybe we see Morikawa with themallet for the rest of the year.
You know what I hate?
These guys get it all, man.
(42:17):
He is playing a one-of-oneprototype that is basically a
spider face and shape, but theback of it is like the Odyssey
7S, which is my favorite putter.
I would...
pay any amount of money for thisputter if it was made available.
(42:37):
And of course, Colibor accountis the only one that exists.
Well, maybe he puts it up forsale in a couple of weeks.
There's no guarantee.
SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
Well, you know the story, right?
He actually admitted to Amandaafter Saturday's round, he
travels with like a few, likefour or five.
SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (42:55):
he's done that for a while, I think.
Like if one misbehaves, he kicksthe thing out.
So it might be on the market.
You're pretty safe.
I just have to wait.
I do want to say this aboutColin because I was concerned
that I was starting to seethings and I was losing my mind
a little bit because I remembertaking odds with you guys a
(43:16):
bunch of times where everyonelooks, well, Kyle Porter
especially, where he'd be like,Colin's striking it great.
You know, he's third in strokesgain approach.
And I'm like, Kyle, he's nothitting it with flip, you know,
as far as he's concerned.
And I heard him talking toAmanda going, you know, the
numbers are belying the way I'mhitting it.
He goes, I love to see the ballfading, and right now it's not
(43:36):
fading, but I'm just kind ofriding the wave a little bit.
So I guess statistically he'sgood, but the real news is he
doesn't think he's completelythere with his golf swing just
yet.
He's working really hard.
It's not doing what he wants itto do, yet still, which is, I
guess, emblematic of what agreat striker he is, he's still
able to put up some goodstatistical numbers with the
(43:58):
iron game.
SPEAKER_01 (44:00):
I think he's dangerously close to going down
the Victor Hovland rabbit hole.
And he's not built like Victorto be able to handle that.
SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
No, I would disagree there because Victor, as a golf
coach, you basically know you'vegot about 48 hours to make a
difference as you're out there.
It's like a carousel.
Where Colin was assessing us,then he tried Blackburn, which
didn't last very long.
And then he went back to Rick.
So he's almost more like JordanSpieth where he's sticking his
(44:29):
course a little bit.
He's been with
SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
Sessing now since he was seven.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
Yeah, but if I'm reading the tea leaves a little
bit, I wouldn't want to be Rickright now.
I think he's on the hot seat.
But I still don't see– like Vicis bouncing around between golf
teachers like he's changingclothes.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Yeah, I just think that– I don't think Colin's view
of his own game is reality.
I don't think what henecessarily...
He's not a great narrator.
He did this at Brookline too,where it's like, oh yeah, I
can't swing.
It's drawing and it's trying tofade and I'm leading the US Open
(45:10):
after 54 holes or whatever itis.
He just gets into these weird...
I don't think he's a veryreliable narrator of his own
game.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
He's a victim of his own success.
I mean, how old was he when hewon his first major
championship?
SPEAKER_01 (45:25):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (45:25):
God.
I mean, he won
SPEAKER_01 (45:26):
two of his first eight, didn't he?
SPEAKER_00 (45:27):
Yeah.
I mean, he won basicallyeverything he played in.
And he was unbeatable.
And he was a top, at that stage,what, four or five player in the
world.
Yeah.
Now, once you've been there,think of Jordan Spieth.
Colin's not the first one.
When you've been up there on thetop of Mount Everest to golf,
now you're down the other sideand you're trying to find your
way back up there because youknow, you're like, I've played
(45:50):
well.
I've done this before.
He's the
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
fifth-ranked player in the world, Mark.
He's not on the side.
He just hasn't won, and he'sgoing crazy.
It's driving him insane.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
But you see, the thing is, his calling card is
the ball strike.
Yeah.
It's the ability to play thegame ugly.
And if you have to, we'll get toScotty Scheffler.
He can play ugly golf and win.
You know, he can make it lookkind of ugh.
But then there are times when hestrikes it great, where Collins–
It's pretty, man, and the ball'sstruck right all the time, and
it's through the window he wantsin all these sort of pro terms.
(46:24):
He's playing a bit of ugly golfright now because the ball's
drawing and he doesn't like it,but he's turning it into scores,
which is the most importantstatistic there is.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
He did hit 62 of 72 greens in regulation this week.
He was third in proximity to thehole.
I just want to shake him, Greg,and I just want to say you are,
like, One of the greatestgolfers in the world.
Knock it off.
Knock it off.
Yeah.
Mark talks about the importanceof the putting all the time.
And I think what you say aboutwinning ugly is critical.
(46:56):
Because you may not like it, butthe truth is you're beating the
field with your ball striking.
But You can't just beat thefield with your ball striking.
You know, like you always say,you need to putt.
At the U.S.
Open, Tita Green, he gainedbasically the same amount of
strokes as J.J.
Spahn, who won.
(47:17):
It was 16.15 for Colin TitaGreen and 16.30 for J.J.
Spahn total.
But Colin lost eight strokesputted.
It's like I just I from myvantage point, we need to
prioritize.
We're we're doing all right,even though you don't like it.
(47:38):
We just got to like the key toyou can win the way you're
hitting it, even if it's notexactly what you like.
I also still see a lot of fadesunless shot track trackers
wrong.
I can't think of a single draw.
I've seen him hit.
So there's just, I mean, I getthat you're picky and you want
(47:59):
to be the best you can be.
And I totally appreciate that.
But I just think what he's doingnow, TD Green is good enough to
win.
It's just time to go do it.
So driving himself crazy.
Driving himself crazy.
Indeed.
He's got a couple of big onescoming up, though.
We'll see how it goes.
(48:20):
Here are our picks from thispast week.
We had some good ones here, butnothing that really did the
trick.
Ben Griffin wins for Greg overKeegan Bradley.
Ben Griffin continues his greatrun of golf.
It was another, just another,top 15 for Ben.
T13 to be exact.
(48:41):
Greg, this dude is a machine.
He never gets tired.
He just does it all.
Yeah, not surprised to hear he'splaying the John Deere.
He's going to play them all.
He's going to play them all therest of the way.
Yeah, you lock him in for it.
T15 or better next week too.
It's really incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
I asked him about it.
He goes, I'm not playingScotland, but then he quickly
follows.
He goes, but I'm going overthere early to play a little
links golf.
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
Yeah.
So you might as well just playit.
SPEAKER_01 (49:09):
Yeah.
He's got a member guest at adifferent place in Ireland.
So he's incredible.
I figured it would be a lot forKeegan.
It was brilliant.
Really, the reliability of BenGriffin and the win the week
before for Keegan that sent medown that path.
I'm just really frustrated thatI don't have Grazerman anywhere
(49:29):
on this card.
He was in my fantasy plays.
I loved him.
I looked and I'm like, I didn'twork him in here.
What am I doing?
He should have been in one of myoutrights, even though he lost.
I would have felt better aboutthat red X.
Yeah, well, Mark had him, but itwas in the matchup, which still
(49:50):
pays just as well because it wasan easy one over Davis Thompson,
who finished T34.
So no
SPEAKER_00 (49:55):
sweat there, Mark.
Wasn't an indictment of Daviswho played well.
It was just Max and somethingabout Max at this time of the
year plays well.
You know, I think he's watch forhim at 3M.
I don't know if he's playingJohn Deere, but he's the kind of
guy that in these sorts of golfcourses, our late summer swing
(50:16):
on the PGA Tour, that he has awhole lot of fun.
The rest of my card wasabhorrent, but anyway.
Well, that's
SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
okay.
I had a perfect grid if perfectis for red Xs, so it's all good
there.
At least you guys got thematchups in there.
Any final...
3M Open.
Gosh, I'm not ready to do 3MOpen.
We're not there yet, Rick.
Any final Rocket Classicthoughts?
(50:44):
Next week's the John Deere, butwe'll get to that next week.
Anything for this week?
SPEAKER_00 (50:51):
I'll say this.
If you ever wanted proof thatfirm and windy is the only way
you defend golf courses againstPGA Tour pros, you got it today.
You got it this afternoon.
And it was amazing to me howbecause...
The golf course is gettingchopped up and rebuilt from
tomorrow morning.
It's like the rules staff justwent, okay, there's your golf
(51:13):
course.
We're just going to let thisthing go.
And there were some spots todayon some of those greens where it
was firm and it was– Mac Dresmansaid to me, he goes, in the
interview, he goes, at the endof the day, 70-something holes,
the greens were really crispy,sort of difficult and stuff.
So it was challenging out there,and in the end, I feel like It
(51:34):
was actually prettyentertaining.
I'm looking forward to seeingwhat the rating is to tomorrow
morning.
SPEAKER_01 (51:43):
What else did I see?
I saw Aaron Wise made the cut,which is very cool.
Yes.
Nice to see Aaron Wise backplaying some golf tournaments,
playing well.
He finished at 10 under par.
I saw that.
That was pretty cool.
What else?
Anything?
One other thing.
I checked out the double digitsafter two days.
(52:07):
Everybody inside the top 12 wasat double digits after two days.
These log jams, you could shootlow numbers, but you can't get
behind in these kind of things.
SPEAKER_00 (52:24):
Did I lose more wine to you?
SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
No, we never had a wine bet on it.
But I looked at it because Iknow we had that discussion, and
I was, quite frankly, a littlenervous that somebody was going
to go crazy.
But I think those firm and fastconditions you talked about,
Mark, really played in my favoron that
SPEAKER_00 (52:42):
one.
Yeah, they did.
If it was going to be soft andthey were going to be guys–
because what was low today?
I don't think it was that low.
It wasn't–
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
Seven under early.
Very early, yeah.
Yeah, there were two sevenunders.
Higgs and– Akshay.
Yeah.
They were done.
They were at home by the timeMark got on air.
SPEAKER_02 (53:04):
Tell you that.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
All right, gents.
Well, listen, we'll be back nextweek.
It's John Deere Classic, andwe've got the Tuesday show, the
Friday show, Sunday show to getyou all up to date on everything
that you need for now.
Big thanks, producer Mina.
She does all the hard workbehind the scenes.
That's great.
It's Mark Gimelman.
I'm Rick Gaiman.
This is The Second Cut.
We'll catch you next time.
UNKNOWN (53:28):
Thank you.
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