Amplify Your Knowledge, Not Just Your Bass! Ep. 3 with Luke Ouellet

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
good day everybody.
This is ed at the SoundQ Garage.
We're on episode three rightnow.
Today's theme is I don't evenknow how.
Let's see what it takes tobuild a sound quality SQ car.
My guest today is Luke Owlett.

(00:41):
I hope I got his last nameright.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's one of the most Not too most shabby not too
shabby.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
How's it?
How do, how do you say it?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
luke owlett, it's uh well, what is the french
canadian pronunciation?
But olet is totally like.
To me that's just as normal ashearing wallet um the w is
silent and invisible, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Anyway, luke is one of the most respected voices in
the SoundCube world.
He's the founder of RWSoundworks, he's built a number
of competition level SoundCubecars which, by the way, have won
plenty of SoundCubecompetitions and he runs one of
the most respected events in thescene.

(01:27):
Why don't you introduceyourself, luke?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I appreciate it.
Ed, thank you for having mefirst of all Been enjoying the
first couple of episodes withboth Ryan and Mike.
Thank you.
I think it's a good little moreof a not a surface-level
conversation.
Like I find a lot of podcasts,this is a nice deep dive into
some of the nuance.
But anyways, I digress.
I'm Luke Ouellette, from up inMaine, so in a very, very what

(01:54):
used to be a very quiet cornerof sound quality and in the SQ
world I am very young.
I've only been kind of doingthis since late 2021 because my
truck didn't ship with the audiosystem that I was hoping it to
when we bought it new, and thenthe rest was easily spent

(02:15):
thousands of hours, whether it'sresearching or working
physically tuning, learning overthe past four years.
This hobby is an amazingpassion of mine.
I really, really, really enjoyall the multifaceted parts of
what car audio is.
To me, the most important thinghas always been about the music

(02:35):
, but how we get to enjoy thatand the path to get there has
been something that I've really,really, really enjoyed.
So I've taken that knowledge,tried to digest it and turned it
into a little bit of a sidebusiness, which is what you
introduced earlier as RWSoundworks, where it's an ebb

(02:56):
and flow.
As a side hustle I kind of turnit off, turn it on as I have
kind of availability with my dayjob.
But what RW Soundworks is isI'm a niche high-end
installation called myself ashop, I guess, but it's a
one-man band that I try to onlydo a few select projects a year,

(03:17):
produce them at a very highlevel.
My fabrication skills areevolving, so I'm not the most
flashy build but in terms ofwhat the fundamentals which is,
I think, really what we're goingto dive into today, I focus on
kind of some of the core valuesand some of the real pieces that
I will never compromise in asound quality build.

(03:38):
That may be contrary to whatmost people either price their
builds at or maybe don't focuson.
If you're a DIYer, they may notbe thinking about it as heavily
as they should be or thinkingtoo much in some other places.
So I try to strike kind of cutthrough a lot of the BS and
focus on really the simpleaspects of car audio and using a

(04:04):
, a priority system to buildcars with, and so far I think my
truck has always been my testbench, but I've been able to
build a couple of other carsthat have done very, very well
and the customers are, mostimportantly, really happy with
how they're enjoying it.
And then we got a huge one inthe works right now.
That has been kind of goingaround and we can dive into that

(04:25):
a little bit later because itapplies to, I think, a lot of
the aspects of what we're goingto talk about.
But we got a huge Jeep soundquality build.
That is probably, to me, themost insane build active right
now and should be pretty crazywhen it's done.
But that's me sort of in a verybig nutshell.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
But that's me sort of in a very big nutshell.
So yeah, I think I've seen somepictures floating around on the
interwebs but truthfully, lukeis being very, very, very modest
because I've seen the level ofworkmanship that he does and
it's chef's kiss, I mean it'sthank you Very, very.

(05:03):
The man is a stickler fordetails and he does some
incredible work.
Uh, your buddy there with theGTI.
I saw the progression of that.
I've seen the progression ofyour truck and I've seen some of
the stuff that you've done withum.
I don't know his first name butnemesis.
I know you helped him build thebox, justin justin is his first

(05:24):
name yep yeah and uh, yeah,your, your, your build is top
notch.
You're right up there with thebig guys, so don't, uh, don't be
too modest I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
I think it's been really this past kind of year,
year and a half, or myconfidence as a resource for
other people, a resource thatactually do work.
Then it's felt good to kind offeel that momentum build inside
of myself and a lot of it hascome down to the people I've

(05:57):
surrounded myself with.
I think that's like such animportant part of what the
learning experience is.
I think I've been able to bereally fortunate to work
alongside and learn and becomefriends with some of the best
names in car audio and the.
I think it's short.
I've been able to takeshortcuts in terms of my
progression in the learningexperience, being like people

(06:21):
I'm talking about like NickApicella, miguel Rios, matt Kim,
people like Ryan who are likeNick Apicella, miguel Rios, matt
Kim, people like Ryan who arelike the epitome of the DIY side
and then even leaning on someof the bigger old school names
Brian Mitchells, the Mark Brunosthese folks that have either
been around the scene for a longtime and then some of the
judges in the competition scenethat are really good about

(06:43):
embracing people who are tryingto lean into this hobby on a
real serious level, have beenreally great teachers and I
think that in thoserelationships that I've had have
been truly what has allowed meto accelerate, I think, to the
point where I'm at now in termsof understanding car audio.
I think the physics and theaudio side is still my weakest

(07:03):
point of understanding the truetheory, but I think that comes
through experience and buildingcars and listening to what your
ears are telling you and thenyou get to make more informed
decisions based on some of thoseexperiences.
But I would still say thatsometimes when I talk to Nick
and he explains to me certainthings on the scientific level
go, okay, I'm a baby still whenit comes to that stuff and I

(07:26):
have so much to learn, uh, but Istill feel that I'm I'm really
well rounded in terms of myunderstanding.
Is that?
Um?
Because I think install isreally uh is one of the most
difficult parts for people to tocomprehend um and how important
it is.
What goes into in theinstallation of a great system

(07:50):
and the insight that it provideson the decisions you make with
your builds is something thatit's why I think diy is.
Not everybody should do it, butI think if you have the time
and the resources and you wantto try it.

(08:10):
I think it makes you understandthis hobby on a completely
different level and it alsomakes you really appreciate if
you are deciding to havesomebody else build your car,
how you're looking at them whenthey're talking to you, how you
grade their work, becausesometimes maybe not the most
showy build, when you peel thepanels back and you start to

(08:34):
really look to me, the stuff yousee is mostly fluff.
It's what's behind the panels,what went into the decision, the
locations, it's all the stuffyou can't see.
Uh, that is just as important,if not, it is more important.
I'll say it's more importantthan what you see visually.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
uh, I think 100.
Yeah, especially what a lot ofpeople don't understand that
somebody who does installs atyour level.
It's like take a bowl, take asalad bowl, and you're going to
mix in part installer, partupholster, part woodworker, part
electrician uh, you know what,what else?

(09:17):
Part problem solver uh, partacoustic expert.
You know, you mix it all up andyou got yourself a part
acoustic expert.
You mix it all up and you gotyourself a SQ type installer.
Because it's not just you cango to some shops where they got
great fabricators and greatinstallers, but they don't know
how to tune or they don't knowhow to problem solve, or they

(09:39):
don't know how to do sounddeadening correctly.
So when you have somebody likeyourself who is well-rounded and
knows how to do all thosethings correctly, that's, you
know, that's like the swiss armyknife of sq installers,
wouldn't you say?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I totally agree and I think that exactly how you just
unloaded and unpackaged theskill set that you need to do
car audio Well, um is.
I work, so I grew up aroundcommercial construction my
entire life, so I've beenwatching buildings get put

(10:17):
together in varying sizeseverything from $50,000 to 45,
$50 million projects in my lifeand all those and I've like
honestly, usually the smaller,like sub-million dollar projects
can be generally morecomplicated and more difficult
than the huge ones.
There's a certain there'sbreaking points and tipping

(10:39):
points for everything, but mypoint being is that it's general
contracting, certainly in theplanning mindset, and more of a
consideration like how Iapproach projects, because I
understand that SQ is the sum ofa bunch of little parts coming
together correctly and that'sthe same thing as building

(11:00):
construction is that it's onlyas good as the weakest link.
Building construction is thatit's only as good as the weakest
link, and in buildingconstruction it may take a
little bit sometimes for thatweakest link to show its face.
I think the same thing is truein car audio.
Sometimes it's glaringly obviousthat there's an issue in some

(11:21):
pieces, but a lot of goodbuilding projects don't really
start to show their valuesometimes until they have time
and experience and age andthat's where I think you start
to separate some of thesesystems that were built
correctly the first time.
People like to me.

(11:41):
I will not compromise on howlong it really is going to take
and I still undervaluedramatically how much hours I
put into a build.
But I won't compromise on kindof this minimum if we're going
to go to like the Jeep is anextreme example, but regardless,
if I think it's going to take25 hours to build a front sub

(12:03):
enclosure, because that's how Ibuild it and I'm not going to
compromise on how I build itbecause one I don't want to call
back about it.
The best customer is the oneyou don't hear from again until
a few years.
Because you're losing money ifyou think about it Exactly.
And the other side of it is Iwant the customer to get really

(12:28):
good value out of their money.
They don't have to think thatthey're fighting some battle of
time versus production.
And that's why I think I'llnever do this full time, because
the way that I treat SQ is atrue passion of mine and I try

(12:48):
to take on clients that havekind of similar passion for
music and that usually allows amuch more conducive and
understanding relationship.
When it comes to kind of quotingand allowing time to do these
projects, or hey, we may notbuild everything at once, but we

(13:11):
start to okay over the next.
The like the golf r format isthe perfect example of taking
stepping stones, like once wekind of turned a corner with
that build and I started tounderstand where we were going.
At the end of it it's like,okay, we're going to take these
incremental steps, never take astep backwards, but we're only
going to take so many stepsforward at a time where the jeep

(13:32):
is like, okay, we're going tojust take the whole leap right
at once and but you still aretaking all the same steps in the
process.
And to me that I'm not like ifI made this my full-time job and
I made this my sole source ofincome, I think I would treat it
very differently and I wouldview it as a different lens.

(13:54):
Um, and I don't want to do thatbecause it's just not not what I
intended this to be like.
I'll probably I don't thinkI'll do install for like the
next 10 years.
I may, depending on who and Imaybe something I only do once a
year with one car, which I'mtotally okay with.
Um, I'll always be around thehobby for the rest of my life.
I know that, but it'll be.

(14:15):
It's something that is is apassion of mine and I want it to
remain that way so, in otherwords, you're very selective
with your, with basically thejobs that you take on.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
But one of the things that that thought just went in
and out of my head.
I was going to say it'll comeback to me, we'll edit that one
out, but let's see.
So, anyhow, let's move on.
And so know that you, uh, youjust went to sbr, right, and you

(14:46):
cleaned house out there I wishI could say I completely cleaned
house.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I do think that it comes back to that point of
being well-rounded.
When I look at the field, um, Ithink there's a couple of other
cars like I think you got toput obviously, obviously Mark
Bruno's Challenger as beingprobably the heaviest hitter
that's been in the car audioscene in the past couple of
years.
It's won SVR the past two yearsand won Aggieland this year.

(15:14):
I finally got to listen to itat SVR.
I think you have that car thatis just extremely well-rounded,
generally, does very well acrossthe board, extremely
well-rounded, generally doesvery well across the board and
it doesn't matter whatorganization you throw at it or

(15:35):
if you put it in a money roundwhere there are no rules, that
car is exceptional.
And then you have some othercars that do tremendously well
in a money round situation butmaybe not in the orgs or they
can be a little more streaky inthe organizations and and that's
where I think my truck is doesvery well, as I think, like
wayne baron had a similarperformance, scott smith and
then myself, for kind of thestandouts in my, in my brain,
where I saw um, good consistencyand I think that's a testament

(16:01):
to definitely tuning and becauseI think tonality is such an
important thing.
I think technicality isobviously, especially in
competition.
Your car being technicallycorrect is important, but I

(16:22):
think tonally is even moreimportant.
So to me I think that's whereMiguel and I jive really, really
closely is in our preferencefor tonality and what that
generally translates to in acompetition world Seems to fit
really well, kind of almostacross the board.
I think Emma is probably thetoughest organization across the

(16:45):
board.
I think Emma is probably thetoughest organization.
It really has its own kind ofset of music and tonality
preferences that I've never beenthe guy to be like.
I got to tune for this org, Igot to tune for this judge, tune
for this tune for this.
Emma's the only one I'mactually considering taking that
different approach to, becauseI've always been like okay, this
is my truck is my truck andyou're going to get what you get
and this is how I like it, thisis how I listen to it and it's

(17:08):
going to score where it's goingto score.
But I think that I'm trying torealize and understand the true
ceiling of my truck in the compworld before it goes away,
probably in a couple years.
So I'm trying to play that.
It's called the game.
You got to play the game alittle bit in competition and
understand, um, your environmentand who's who's listening to

(17:30):
your vehicle, how they'relistening to it, what they're
listening for, and you, almostyou got to tailor that a little
bit, I think to to squeak inthat like that top five percent.
I think I'm on the cusp of that.
My truck does very well for itsplatform.
But in order to try tochallenge the best vehicles, you
got to really hone in and likeyou're talking like splitting

(17:50):
hairs in a lot of these places,but when you're with a good
judge that's listened tohundreds or thousands of cars in
their life, they're going topick up on those nuances.
So because generally people areusually bringing pretty good
cars to competitions, um, so yougot to differentiate yourself
with these small details.
But I think the truck at SVR didreally well, gave plenty of

(18:11):
demos.
It was really flattering tohave judges that were not
judging my car want to come, getsome demos and get some great
feedback.
And the feedback was veryconsistent, which is I take some
I'm humbled a little bit bythat or like I take a little bit
of like solace, and that isthat getting consistent feedback

(18:32):
means that I was seating peoplecorrectly and that my car is
doing things consistently, evenif it's consistently wrong.
Um, there's things that I thinkthat's a good thing because,
like, sometimes, when, likepeople can go to their first
show and their like feedback isa little bit all over the place,
they don't really know what todo with it and understand it,

(18:54):
and sometimes they get turnedoff by that process.
And especially at svr where,like, like I ran probably 13
judges or 14 judges throughoutthe weekend through my truck.
So trying like you got, toimagine that all these judges
are doing 49 other carsthroughout the weekend and so
they're they're exhausted andtrying to get like verbal
feedback is difficult, um, andyou can't blame the judges for

(19:17):
that.
It's just literally it's a timeefficiency thing that you have
to keep up with the pace.
But getting consistent feedbackwas very comforting for me.
That it's like okay, I can takeaction based on that feedback,
which is something that's good.
That I'm like okay, I got tohone this a little bit, hone
that a little bit, and then it'snot like hey, the truck is
doing this thing way off and Iheard this, and then you're like

(19:40):
, okay, well, is my install wayoff or is the tune way off?
It's like, no, this is thislittle thing.
This little thing, this littlething, fix them.
Come back and you'll gain fivepoints.
And then okay, now I'm flirtingwith top five instead of top
ten, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, I mean, basically you're swimming with
the big sharks there at SVR, soyou've got to give yourself a
pat on the back for that,because the people that are
competing at SVR so you got togive yourself a pat on the back
for that, because the peoplethat are competing at SVR.
These aren't just, you know,first year or I mean, some are
here and there, but normallythese are people that are that.
You know.
They're vets in the industryand they've been basically

(20:19):
honing their systems for quite awhile and getting it better and
better and better, and everyyear that they come back it's
better than you know.
If they consistently win,they're not just going to leave
their car alone, they're goingto polish it even more for the
next season, because they knowthat people like you and other

(20:43):
competitors that are coming upin the SQ competition world are
also nipping at their heels, andyou're also polishing your
truck and you're getting yoursystem more and more dialed in,
so they have to dial theirs ineven better than what they even
had.
So to compete with these guys,it's not, it's no small feat

(21:07):
this.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
This this year was.
So this is my third svr um andI placed highest.
In my first svr I got 10th andwhich way which, looking back at
it, was like insane to me.
I think about it and becauselike I uh, last year I don't
think I came, it was kind of amixed bag of a tune I didn't

(21:29):
know, miguel Nick was inSwitzerland so, and my tuning
skills were definitely a littlefiring from the hip in terms of
process and I wasn't able totrust my ears nearly as much as
I do now, and so I didn't placenearly as well as where I
thought.
And then this year I was kindof on the fence with svr because
I was building the jeep andtrying to balance day job and

(21:51):
and the amount of hours it takesto build the jeep and taking
basically a week off to go tosvr um, and but I'm like like I
pushed through the competitionaside.
Svr is just seeing.
It to me is always about thepeople and it's the one time I

(22:12):
get to see everybody that Iinteract with literally as much
as or more so than my own family, that I get to finally see them
interact with them.
We all listen to cars and wegive each other shit.
For the competition side of it,it's kind of a secondary
objective.
Some people definitely take itmore serious than others and
that's totally fine.
But for me, I'm going there to,to, to meet and hang out with

(22:34):
the people that uh have the samecrazy passion as I do and this
is, to me, svr is the mecca ofthat.
Um, from both the level of carlike this year to me was stacked
.
It was like if you were placingtop 25 in this group, it is
highly respectable, not sayinglike placing lower than that
isn't.
But when I look at the cars,they are like your pick any car

(22:57):
in the top 25 and they are a toptwo, three, four car in in
their region in the us, uh, ortheir cars that are like hyper
at the top at every show thatthey go.
I think, besides a handful ofcars, the brian gill, jeff hall,
a couple of these cars that arealways in the competition mix
and always in the upper uhlevels, uh, and we weren't.

(23:18):
We didn't have miguel either,um, but he's got something
special coming that willcertainly shake up the world.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Miguel's got something cooking, huh.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Aside from those three, he's Mazda.
Right, he's got a Mazda, or ishe building something new?

Speaker 2 (23:33):
He's building something new.
He's introduced it on hischannel.
People go check out his YouTubechannel waveform tuning You'll
see what he's got going on.
He's got a model Y.
He's got some speaker companythat begins with an a and ends
in tons going into it.
Um, yeah, I think he got alittle excited last time he
tuned my truck and we we didsome stress testing, um, and

(23:58):
yeah, he, that thing from just aplatform standpoint, like, take
away like his capacity as atutor, uh, russ is doing the
install as an installer.
And you just look at thatplatform, the Tesla model Y,
objectively it's good, it's like, if we're like, to me, if it's
the epitome, it's probably thebest SQ platform that you're

(24:21):
buying today.
Um, with the exception of kindof what the dodge challenger is,
that's the only thing that kindof rivals it because of just
the shape and depth of those, ofthat cabin.
But the model y from, um, oemlocations, uh, native sound
treatment, like all these pieces.
That car is so good and and, um, yeah, we should.

(24:45):
That's maybe a little segue ofhow I look at cars if I were to
choose one just from a pureplatform standpoint.
Uh, the model y really is there, but when he comes next year
it'll be svr will be evencrazier.
But this year was stacked.
So like me getting 12th in themoney round, I was totally happy
and okay with like if I placetwo points higher, I'm in

(25:06):
seventh.
I place four points higher, I'min fifth or something like that
.
Um, so you got to think aboutlike how tight that spread is
from like 15th to third is likesix points or something like
that, or five and a half points.
It was like crazy, crazy tight.
Like you get a couple goodscores from judges, you, you
were leapfrogging way up and soI think that's a good testament

(25:29):
to like how strong SVR is as afield overall and good judging.
So I thought the event wassuper smooth.
If you guys have never been toit, if you're within 15 hours of
wheeling West Virginia, go tothat event.
It is the best SQ event to meIn terms of the pure SQ.
You want to listen to the bestcars, biggest saturation.

(25:52):
Svr is the best environment toexperience that and I highly
suggest that if you're into thishobby, at least attend that
event once.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, I've been dying to go Ever since I heard of it
years ago.
I've been wanting to go, evenjust as a spectator.
I'm not a big competitor.
I used to compete back in theday, not that I'm against it now
.
I think competing is reallygood, even if you're not a
competitor.
It's not bad to compete in a,in a competition here and there,

(26:26):
because the judges will giveyou feedback and they're gonna
give you a lot of constructivecriticism on what you should do.
Um, at the last event for hvrthat mike had, uh, ryan
convinced me to compete.
I didn't want to compete.
I was like, nah, I don't wantto.
I didn't want to compete.
I was like, nah, I don't wantto compete, I don't want to
compete.
And at the same time I was like, man, my cars.

(26:47):
I didn't think my car wascompetition worthy.
And Ryan's like, yes, it is,yes, it is.
And he's like you got tocompete.
And I was like, okay, I'm goingto compete.
And I knew it wasn't up in my tomy ears, cause I've heard
really good sounding cars, carsI knew there was something
missing.
Well, there was somethingmissing, because miguel, nick

(27:08):
and kevin gave me a lot ofpointers and when I came back
home, I went in there and I didexactly what they you know,
because all the feedback wasconsistent and I could tell okay
, so there's, there's a themegoing on here, let me tweak here
and tweak a little there andtweak a little here.
Boom Made a huge difference.

(27:29):
So I didn't go in there tocompete and be upset because I
lost or whatnot.
I didn't look at it that way.
Once I got that feedback and Iwas like wow, competing is not
just for the sport alone.
It's also a really good way toget that feedback.
And I was like wow, competingis not just for the sport alone.
It's also really good way toget that feedback from those

(27:49):
judges, because a lot of peopleare going to get in your car.
You know people at theget-togethers and at the
competition.
They're going to get in yourcar.
They might not have the heartto tell you what's wrong with
your system.
You know they're going to belike yeah, it, it sounds good.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
That's 95% of people.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, they're not going to tell you, man, you know
you got too much base or it'stoo, you know it's, it's, the
basis is in the back.
I can, you know, I can locatethe subwoofer.
They're not going to, they'regoing to say, yeah, it sounds
good, you know.
And and then the people, andthen some people don't have the
technical know-how, like thejudges, to tell you, like Miguel

(28:26):
, yeah, you're a little high at8,000 hertz.
It's like how do you know that?
Because his ears are well-tunedmachines, you know he's a tuner
.
For those of you that don't,know, Miguel, what is it?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
total tuning no, he's going to slap you when he hears
that.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I'll edit that out, Miguel.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'm sorry, it's a way for way for tuning.
Okay, yeah, I'm yeah, because Idon't.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I don't use tuners, I use dirac, I cheat yeah, so but
um, sorry, miguel, waveformtuning for those of you that are
wondering.
But yeah, miguel, you know he'slike yeah, you're, you're,
you're, you're hot around 8,000Hertz, 16,000 Hertz, it's like.
I didn't know that.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Like I knew I was hot somewhere, but I didn't know
exactly what frequency and ajudge can tell you that, like
crazy, like that, like I, theirears are uh and Howard, uh, I
trust a from askew or likepeople that can really really
identify specific issues.

(29:29):
Uh, that's a gift like to me.
Oh, because, like you're,you're, it's so refreshing to
hear how you viewed competition.
Um, which is almost like we.
We have mine coming up here inMaine, which is exactly what I
want it to be.
It's exactly what HVR is about.
It is not like the competitionand who places what is a very

(29:55):
secondary piece to how HVR waskind of built and structured.
Because you kind of have thismoney around where everybody
gets to go against everybody,because you kind of have this
money around where everybodygets to go against everybody,
but we separate kind of what wewould consider pro or elite
people that have been around fora long time and folks that are
new to it and that go into theamateur division, and it's
specifically targeted aroundhaving a little bit of fun in

(30:16):
the competition.
But it's exactly what you'regetting to.
Is that feedback?
Is that?
That is the number oneexperience we want people to
come away with, and this year athvr, the weather was probably
our biggest killer, because itwas literally torrential
downpours for what like eighthours of the day.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
So yeah, I thought no zark was gonna swing by and
pick us up because that was, uh,that was.
I've never seen it rain thatmuch, and in one day it was as
it would let up.
For about a minute we'd get allhappy, we're like, oh, it
wasn't that bad, and then itwould start monsooning all over
again.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
It was crazy yeah, but it was like the point I was
making with that was more of the.
It hampered the ability.
I think the judges still triedto do their absolute best at
spending time with eachcompetitor to give them that
verbal feedback as they came outof the car, because sometimes
reading a judge's handwriting orhey, you don't look at score

(31:14):
sheets until three or four dayslater and you're HBR is like we
set up a certain amount of carsto allow to make sure 15 to 20
minutes per judge per car andallowing them time to genuinely

(31:35):
listen, which is, as a judge, isnot at all five to seven minute
experience generally and thenhaving a good five, seven
minutes with the competitor totalk with them and give them
real actionable feedback so theycan make their systems better.
And I think HVR is just kind ofdoing a really good job of

(31:56):
helping the local area of people, because usually the folks in
the amateur division aregenerally folks that live closer
, that aren't traveling to thebig shows division are generally
folks that live closer, thataren't traveling to the big
shows.
Not always, true, but but Ithink it's.
It's improving the region as awhole.
It's saturating the the regionwith better sounding cars, which
is good for the hobby, it'sgood for growth of understanding

(32:18):
what good cars should soundlike, and I think that's exactly
what mike set out to do and Ithink it's really nailing that
on the head and I hope that wecontinue that uh, going forward
and make it even bigger as wecan to to to have people kind of
travel up here, uh as a truedestination show, like like the

(32:42):
svrs and and the aggies andthese kind of real notable shows
who want hvr to be kind of that, that pinnacle in the northeast
for for folks to come um andand have a good time and
introduce people to competition,uh at a very approachable way.
Uh, whereas, like svr, I thinkyou kind of got to go on with a
completely different mindsetthan you do at a show like hvr,

(33:04):
where people are really not thatpeople aren't willing to help
you.
At svr, uh, there's just somuch going on comparatively that
hvr is designed to likeintroduce people to competition
even though it's a big show,like we want people to come back
again and enjoy it and and orapproach it like you do is where
, hey, uh, I don't know how Ifeel about my car, but like I'm

(33:25):
not, I don't care where itplaces, but having somebody tell
me how to make it better issuper valuable.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Oh, it's priceless it's priceless that that alone
is worth the cost of entry.
You know, whatever the cost isto compete, it doesn't matter if
you come in 10th place.
You get that.
You get that feedback.
Now you can make your, your cara lot better right now.
Those few tweaks that I did, Idid exactly what.
You know what they, what theytold me to do, and the car

(33:55):
sounds literally like like 50better like yeah, it's night and
day.
It was like, oh wow, that made ahuge difference.
But speaking of events, you gotan event coming up soon too,
right, can you?
Tell people about that, Maybeshare some links or websites or

(34:16):
social media yeah best thing todo is go onto my social media.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
So I'm rwsoundworks, the letters R-W and then the
word soundworks, all one wordlowercase.
You can find me on YouTube withthat.
Instagram is a great place.
Facebook best thing to me is tois go to my business page, the
rwsoundworks on Instagram.
There's a link right in mydescription.
That's got links to all of mysocials, but up at the top

(34:43):
there's an event that I'mhosting up in Brunswick, maine,
on August 9th, so next weekend.
This is a little unusual for thetime of year.
Usually I've always done aspring and fall event, but we're
doing the first competition.
It's always been a meetup, onlyit is still a meetup for
culture.
Comp is a very optionalexperience, similar to kind of

(35:06):
how I want HVR to approach.
Feedback is how I want peopleto dip their toes in at this
event.
So we are hosting IASCA.
It's a 3X show.
We got Travis, who's thepresident of IASCA.
He's actually flying fromCalifornia and he's doing a
family trip with his entirefamily here up on the East Coast
and he's coming a family tripwith his entire family here up
on the East Coast and he'scoming to judge the IASCA and
it's going to be a 3X show whichis pretty usually reserved for

(35:31):
huge shows, but he wants peopleto come from the Northeast get
your points.
It's a good time if you'rethinking about going to finals
and you're in the area.
But again, travis is a greatjudge.
He's experienced and he wantsto get feedback and he wants to
see the area and see what kindof cars that the Northeast are
offering.
So he's coming to do that.
Then we got Mike Buonato isgoing to be doing the MassCue

(35:54):
judging.
I doubt that I'll split it.
I'm a MassCue judge as well,but I'm going to be focused on
kind of running the eventbecause I want people to.
Usually we have anywhere from Idon't know we've seen it up to
almost 40 cars one spring, butwe're usually floating in 20 to
40 cars.
And yeah, August 9th we'regoing to have that comp, but we
also do it as a meetup.
So just come and hang out.

(36:18):
Usually I get a bunch of food,whether it's like we got a
couple of really good localpizza parlors.
Then I go over to Wild Oats andI get some really nice sides
from there and give you guysbreakfast and coffee and stuff
like that and try to make itkind of a comfortable
environment for people to wantto hang out all day.
We're fortunate to have awarehouse so we can stay out of
the sun especially.
It's gonna be august, uh, it'sgonna be hot, but uh.

(36:40):
So we have a good place to pullcars in to do judging, a good
place to stand around so wedon't get too beat up, but we
also have a nice parking lot.
We're tucked away fromeverybody.
So I think that next year Iwon't do it in August, but I
hope to keep.
We'll see how the comp does.
If the comp isn't as successfulas I want, we'll go right back

(37:01):
up to meetups and I think to meit it's still uh, I love seeing
people come.
We had Chris Pierce come fromOhio just to come to my meetup
last fall.
Like I don't know 16 hours orsomething he drove to get here
at Carson, come fromPennsylvania with this Porsche
at the time.
Um, it was really.
It's really cool to see peoplelike come treat your meetup and
I think, like Ian, consistencyand people desire to go to their

(37:31):
meetups.
They'll travel literally acrossthe country to go to them
because of that great meetupculture and I think that I think
we have that up in thenortheast is like.
I think it's more the timing iskey.
I love doing it as a springevent because I think having the
like late april show is getspeople uh to like blow off the
cobwebs from the winter and gettheir builds together in march

(37:53):
and April and then and then weall come out of the gate really
strong for the year in April andthen sometimes we can hang out
in the fall.
But I think I'll probably nextyear switch it back to like a
late April, early May show,cause I just I think it's a
great time of the year forpeople to like kick off the year
in a really good way up in theNortheast.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, it is.
It's people come out ofhibernation and they just get
that, that spring fever, andthey want to.
You know, like you said, dustoff the cobwebs and start
building their cars or starthoning in.
You know, dialing in their cars.
But so one of the things that Iwanted to ask you right, the
show theme, the philosophy ofbuilding a sound cue car,

(38:33):
there's like a two-part questionis uh, when you look at a car
as a blank canvas, uh, what areyour first considerations when
starting a build from scratch,what's what's really important
in your eyes?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
so I think there is a , there's a correlation between
car audio people and car peopleand I would say that in the venn
diagram of those twopopulations there's a ton of
overlap where I would I wouldsay most of us car audio people

(39:13):
are car people.
Oh, definitely as a as a wholethey kind of go hand in hand,
exactly as I think there's asmuch modifications outside the
audio.
Well, there's more modificationsoutside the audio system in a
car.
So I think that before I eventhink about audio on a personal
level and to a client uh, unlessthey are that outside of that

(39:37):
common denominator of both beingcar audio and a car person and
they're just car audio yeah, youcan make some way bigger
sacrifices in enjoying drivingthe car.
Uh, like is the car?
Uh like, is the car exciting toyou visually?
Do you?
Do you enjoy being spendingtime in it?
Uh, can you do long trips withit?

(39:59):
I think to me, the first thingI look at is do I actually enjoy
this vehicle?
Am I in love with this vehicle?
Um, like to me, like I've.
I've owned trucks for the past15 years.
I came into this truck reallyas an exit strategy out of my
old previous job If I werebuying something new again.
I'm not buying a truck as an SQplatform or as a car that I

(40:24):
love, but I do enjoy thepracticality of it and I think
it's a great-looking truck froma visual standpoint.
But I think everybody, when Ihave them, look at a vehicle.
I think you need to reallyactually like the vehicle
outside of the audio system.
I think to me, you're not goingto enjoy the experience as a
whole unless you enjoy the sumof the parts of what you're

(40:49):
driving.
Like me, I want an Audi A6 allroad because visually I think
they're stunning.
It's super practical for how Ioperate as a person in my life.
Uh, it's an awesome platform foraudio and so like checks, all
those boxes, but audio is just apart of that.
So I think when I look at kindof what's really important for
me, I gotta love the car, uh,first and foremost, and then, uh

(41:11):
, audio I do consider as a veryheavy weighting factor in that,
but I think to me is there atthe core of it.
You still need to really likethe car, be proud of it, uh,
enjoy it, um, and I think that'sa, that's a relationship you
need to have with your vehicle.
If you're going to go to kindof the crazy levels of SQ that

(41:33):
we are is I think you're makinga commitment, because most of us
here are not rotating throughcars every year or two and
investing tens of thousands ofdollars in sound quality just to
move on to the next vehicleover two years.
Most of us that are plungingthis deep into whether dollar
value or hours invested areowning these vehicles a minimum

(41:54):
of five years, so I think youreally need to again enjoy the
vehicle that you're in.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, that that that's definitely a good
consideration, because if you'renot enjoying the ride, you're
not going to enjoy the music.
You know, if you're in thereand you're like man, this, this,
this thing is bumpy or whatever, uncomfortable, I don't fit in
this car really well.
You know, if you're in thereand you're like man, this thing
is bumpy or whatever,uncomfortable, I don't fit in
this car really well.
You know, if you're tall orwhatever you know stature, maybe
you're a little husky, whateverthe case may be, if you're not

(42:23):
comfortable in the car, you knowsome.
You know I got a buddy.
He's a rather large fella.
He's probably not going toenjoy riding around in a prius
or a civic with a sound systemand then he probably won't be
able to enjoy it as much becausehis leg is blocking the speaker
.
You know he's a big guy where aguy like that may enjoy a

(42:44):
pickup truck like yours and he'sgoing to enjoy the music a lot
more.
So yeah, that's something totake into consideration.
Is, you know what type ofvehicle you have?
Is this SQ friendly?
Is the car a rattle trap?
Is it quiet?
Is it, you know, easy to buildupon that foundation, because
some cars don't lend well to SQcars.

(43:06):
Trust me, I've had some, somecars that are just rattle traps
and no matter what, what.
How much sound that anything,how much money and and you throw
at them, they're just nevergoing to be an sq car totally,
and that's like superoo as aplatform is.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
It's difficult, uh, it's one of those things that
you probably are spending morein sound deadening than you are
in the system itself, if you'reapproaching that platform
correctly.
Um, but, and then you go to aporsche or a volvo that uses
completely different mountingsystems for their door panels,
uh, or whatever.
An s-class mercedes that hasbasically mass loaded vinyl, uh,

(43:46):
and different levels of foamthat we will never, as sound
quality installers, get bettertreatment than what those cars
are coming from the factory with.
And, yeah, there's certainadvantages, certainly to where
you're starting to target kindof importance when it comes to

(44:09):
sound quality.
So I think that if I'm, if Iput my let's put my foil hat for
sound quality and I look at avehicle and, okay, I like this
vehicle, first thing I'm lookingat is, uh, speaker locations,
because I think to me, it's oneof those things that physics or
physics, or physics or physics,uh, you, you're, you're going to

(44:32):
get better performance nativelyout of certain locations,
especially like whatever, bothrelative to where you're sitting
, uh, and how the cabin isshaped, and like.
To me, that's why wagons, uhsedans, they have a lot of
really good native advantagesbecause of how generally the
cabin is shaped, dash depthnessuh, how far the dash and

(44:55):
generally mid-ranges are fromyou, how far even door mounted
mid-base may be in front of you.
That create this like kind ofnative depth that a lot of cars
struggle to get.
Um, and so I look at locationsas my number one factor.
Obviously, if it's got nativethree-way locations, that's best
case.
Because I think to me, like myone of my prevailing like code

(45:22):
of values, code of ethics whenit comes to car audio is using
the smallest and least amount ofequipment as possible to get to
your like, to get to your endgame goal.
So if I can do that with athree-way, a helix v8 and a

(45:45):
custom box in the back and onemonoblock, and that hits your
goal and it blows your hair back.
And we've only invested Xamount of like whatever $5,000
of equipment.
That is going to be my mantra.
It is not about the big names,the big flashy stuff.
To me there's certain cars likethe Toyota Camry I know you and

(46:10):
Ryan talked a lot about.
There's a reason why it's superpopular because the OEM
locations are super friendly towork with.
They're in great places.
The car lends itself easily tomodification.
It sucks for integration.
That's the only thing thatToyota's continually having
issues with me as a installerfor.
But aside from that, like theplatform just works and you

(46:30):
don't have to fight it from aninstall, you don't have to
create new locations becausethey're just there.
Um, you got whatever 80 pillars, yeah, yeah, you can just
replace over and over again andcut them up and try them up
screw up and just buy anotherset, just buy a, just buy a case
of them in case you true.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
What's funny is that what people don't, you know?
I know some people are outthere like I'm not buying a car
based on the audioconsiderations.
Well, you know what?
This is the type of stuff thatsq nerds do.
Okay, we go to a dealership andwe're not looking at a car and
thinking, hey, what kind ofmiles per gallon does this get?
How much leg you know?

(47:11):
How much uh room does this havefor my kids in the back, or
whatever.
No, we're looking at, you know,audio locations.
We're looking at the dash.
Is it going to reflect?
I know it's crazy, but you'regoing to save a lot of money in

(47:35):
your sq build because you're notfighting the car you know, I've
seen cars where the car camewithout mids and I've seen them
take off the windshield and make, you know, drill holes in the
dash to make the car a three-way.
Well, guess what?
That's not cheap and that's noteasy to do and make it look OEM

(47:59):
.
So that person is spending alot of money when they could
have just bought a car that hadthose locations already.
You know they could have saveda boatload of money.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
You're describing my weekend because that's a little
I'm pulling the.
This is my weekend where I'm alittle I'm pulling the.
This is my weekend where I'mpulling the dash out of the jeep
and drilling four inch holes inthe corners to put mid-ranges
there.
Yeah, there you go, and yeahit's.
And I budgeted 25 hours and afair amount of sound treatment
materials while I was in there.
So like, yeah, you, to me it'sI do.
I do think people do not thinkabout that as a dollars and

(48:33):
cents transaction when they lookat these vehicles Like I look
at Volvo is an excellent OEMplatform.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, it's a three-way.
It's got nice locations, plentyof room.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
And people are like, okay, maybe they were comparing
this against a vehicle that Idon't know Nissan, alt, ultima,
honda like pick your poison ofsomething that is not in the
same.
Call it, I don't.
It's a 20 premium to buy thevolvo, uh.
And.
But they know that when they'recoming out of whatever vehicle

(49:05):
they're buying, they're eitherbuilding a system.
So it's either they'reinvesting a ton of sweat equity
and building them a systemthemselves or they're reaching
out to a shop and hopefully ashop that to me, is worth their
while is charging the correctamount of hours for what it
takes to do the build.
You're going to have a bunch ofvalue savings on the other side
of it, choosing a vehicle, likeyou said, that you're not

(49:27):
fighting the install with, thathas great native locations, that
has flexibility for mountingand putting amps and fitting
equipment easily without majormodifications.
And when you start to takethose considerations in, like
those are like to me, when Ilook at the g build is like I

(49:49):
treated the doors crazy but Ididn't have to create a new
mid-base location in this case.
But like my truck's a greatexample I'm using my dash sort
of mid-range OEM location.
Besides that, I'm not using asingle OEM location in that
truck.
The amount of freaking hours todo that is like insane and

(50:10):
nobody in their right mind isgenerally paying for the amount
of labor it takes to take atruck, which is a crap platform
for sq.
Generally.
It has its advantages in someways, but generally if you're
trying to build an sq like elitelevel vehicle, you're not
buying a truck and and there'sthere's plethora of reasons why

(50:32):
that but OEM locations are.
Besides, usually dashed cornersare usually terrible in a truck
and really not conducive togood SQ.
Where a lot of these othervehicles Porsche is a good
history I totally agree is thatif you're in that W212 era of
Mercedes vehicles withfirewall-mounted mid-base,

(50:58):
mid-range, high in the door,some have sail-mounted tweeters,
some have door-mounted tweetersand you can basically do
plug-and-play systems that aregoing to dump all over people
who put tens of thousands ofdollars in custom systems but
never move the speaker in thevehicle uh, but they put focal

(51:20):
utopias and thousands of dollarsof an amp.
But it's a crap location whereyou're never going to get
successful sonic results fromwhere somebody could put in a 50
speaker in in the correctlocation and it will sound a
million times better becausephysics are physics and there's
certain things that cars or carslocations are going to do much

(51:46):
better than others.
And yeah, I think it's.
You have to look at that timevalue proposition when you're
considering a vehicle.
Is that, um, what is, what isthis platform allowing you to do
relative to what your goals are?

(52:10):
Um, I think, like some peoplehave the big, big competitions
and you start to understand andbuild kind of top tier cars, uh,
where you know how to set thebar.
A lot of people don't evenunderstand what good cars are
kind of supposed to sound like,either because they've never
heard a good car or they don'thave reference outside of car

(52:31):
audio of whether it's good homeaudio a really nice pair of good
headphones that have referenceoutside of car audio, whether
it's good home audio, a reallynice pair of good headphones
that are reference kind of levelstuff where they can establish
in their brain what is good.
And so people tend to go to andlisten and not understand how
to set goals with their ownvehicle.
So that's why car audio to meis I have a very small group of

(52:55):
people that I truly trust inhere, because I think even at
the installer level people don'tunderstand that.
What good cars and what theyshould sound like, how they
should perform.
Oh, that's right, I don't have.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah I've seen, you know, installers that were just
top level installers but theydidn't.
They couldn't tune, theycouldn't tune a fork, you know.
So on with with.
On that note, what do you thinksome people obsess over that
really isn't important?
I know some people obsess overwires or they obsess over sound

(53:30):
deadening, they obsess overcertain things.
Some, some of these things it'sokay to obsess over, but some
of it is wasted money, wrongfocus, trendy parts or whatever
the forum boner is.
You know, uh, what do you think?
Give me some examples of, uh,things that people obsess over
that that really aren'timportant I, I definitely think

(53:52):
that people they obsesssometimes over so in this kind
of way.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
So wire and RCA's will definitely put you there is
that, I think, having like tome, those two things are about
reliability and serviceability,things that last well, do well
in a car audio environment interms of humidity, vibration,
swings in temperature.
Like to me that when it comesto wire and RCAs, as long as it

(54:20):
doesn't introduce noise and it'snot affected by the other
factors I just said.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
So you're saying that the triple virgin, oxygen-free
OFC RCAs with the twisted endsaren't needed?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
the turn off.
I know that people that or theaudio quest carbon crazy talk
like like we're spending fivelike six hundred dollars on a
three meter interconnect forcoaxial makes monster cable,
monster cable, exactly exactlyit's like in home audio.
I think there's a more of aplace for cables.

(54:57):
I'm still a huge skeptic inthat like regard too, but I
think like power conditioningand things like that are way
more of a thing in home audioand good quality equipment and
cabling and interconnects docome into play more.
Their car audio hell no yeah, Ithink reliability is more
important than having a twistedpair of carbon fiber ofc rcas

(55:20):
like there is so much noiserejection in modern day car
audio equipment, even in likesome of the 90s and 2000 stuff
um, that like like the wholeconcept of having signal and
power be in two differentlocations, on an amp rack or in
a car.
Those days are gone.
I never lived in those days butI know that in modern-day
shielding and noise rejectionthat exists in modern amp

(55:43):
topology and how the DSP boardsare built is a non-issue if
you're using any sort ofreputable piece of equipment.
If you're using a Dayton 408 oran audio-controlled DSP, I
can't help you.
But if you're using any sort ofreputable piece of equipment,
if you're using a dayton 408 oran audio control dsp, I can't
help you.
But if you're staying out ofthose types of stuff where, like
whatever helix arc, um, the newversion of the, the minis and

(56:04):
like stuff that has good qualitycomponents like that, that kind
of stuff to me is people obsessover thinking that that's
making a difference.
It's not, uh at all, it's yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
So they're wasting their time wasting money in in
that when they could be usingthat to focus on something
better, like sound treatment.
That is something that's worthresearching and stuff like that.
What I know that you, uh, yousell resinex right and you're
good friends with Nick andyou're you're an official
Resonix retailer.

(56:35):
I am a I'm an affiliate.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I like I, I dealer, like local to my region.
I don't do like any like onlinesales or anything like that.
I thought obviously you go goNick's website directly.
But yeah, I've been fortunateto be around Nick and, way
beyond sound deadening, has beeneasily my biggest mentor from
day one.
Him and I are fellow Halo nerds, which is how we came to know

(57:01):
each other.
He's pretty much the reason whyI'm in to ask you the way that
I am.
It was a question about it wason Dima.
I saw him put a Helix directorand a headliner of my truck and
was like holy crap, that looksso good.
And I messaged him and then herecognized my username from when
I used to compete in halo.
We used to play competitivelyas little 17, 18, 19, 20 year

(57:23):
olds.
And he calls me and he goes didyou play halo 3?
And I was like yeah, that's toofunny.
And literally after that likehe, it was weird.
He like kind of took me underhis wing and like it took me
like almost a year, year and ahalf, to like really translate
like the truths that nick wastelling me right out of the gate

(57:44):
.
But I was like no, I don't needa dsp uh I.
I can just use ccf on theoutside of my doors as sound
treatment, peel and seal.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Did you use some peel ?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
and seal.
No, I literally used like thequarter inch Dyna.
It's not Dyna quartz, whateverthe Dyna mat CCF.
Just closed cell phone.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Oh, I think it's called.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Dyna liner, dyna liner, that's right, that's
right and I literally slappedthat on the outer skin of my
metal doors.
I used the one foot by one footpiece of Dyna Matte Extreme,
the CLD, behind my Infinity 6x9.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
And I was like boom this is good, you had Infinity
6x9s.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
That was my first modification, like when my truck
came into this, it was wow, Iwent I was like crutchfield uh,
here's 1500, I want you todesign me a system, yeah, and so
it was an infinity six by nine,and a tweeter, uh, an audio
control lc4 800, and then I putsome Morel like hundred dollar

(58:55):
coaxes in the back, uh, and yeah, I thought I was playing with
fire at that point, um, and then, and then you're like I'm going
to, I'm going to.
SBR, yeah, basically.
And I was like, and then I waslike, okay, I wanted to like add
a sub.
And then I was like, okay, Iwent to look at how to add a sub

(59:18):
.
Like I had a system in highschool but I was super about 17
years old, I had not touched caraudio in like 13 or 14 years.
So I'm like, okay, let me learnhow to do this.
So that's how I ended up on diymobile audio and I found one of
nick's posts about a similartruck he had did and that's like
really what sparked my deep,deep, degenerate dive into sound
quality.
From there I was like learningfrom him.

(59:39):
But sound treatment, as yoursound deadening is, she would
prefer me to refer it as uh.
For seo purposes, uh is a um,highly, highly, highly
misunderstood, undervalued,polarizing topic on sound
quality.
People do not spend enoughmoney or time on it.
If I could tell you that youcould install this amp and you

(01:00:02):
could lower the audibledistortion out of your system by
10% to 15%, people would pay$100,000 for that car audio amp
if it could make that sort ofchange in your system.
But if you tell somebody thatyou got to spend three thousand
dollars in sound deadening intheir car.
They look at you like you havenine heads, oh yeah and but, but

(01:00:23):
that's the literal effect, ifnot more so than the percentage
I I just stated.
The difference in distortionand cleanliness of your sound
and outside of audio, enjoyingyour vehicle driving down the
road is and this is not aresonance promotion, this is a
sound deadening concept.

(01:00:43):
Promotion is that, um, I spend,I will not, on, like the jeep
is probably a 300, three, Idon't know, somewhere between
300 and 350 hour build.
I will.
I will have spent at least 100of that on just sound deadening
it.
I didn't charge that much forsound deadening specifically,

(01:01:05):
but it's just I don't know howto do it any other way,
especially a build like that,where it's going to have
tremendous amounts of power andoutput and expectation of like I
want that card to get toobscene levels and be perfectly
composed.
Sound deadening is like, besideshaving really good quality
equipment that can handle thatlevel of power, um, sound

(01:01:27):
deadening is the 100 other sideof that coin.
That, um, you need to focus ondetail, detail, detail.
It is not just slapping cld andfiber mat and calling it a day,
it is the little pieces oftessa tape, it's the pieces of
butyl rope, it's the um, the ccf, to decouple this panel from

(01:01:49):
this, understanding what metalto metal, is plastic to metal,
how do you decouple thoseproperly?
And it's the sum of the parts,just like sq as a whole.
Sound deadening is is nodifferent.
Is that you need?
And this is where, like nick,like people can say and
understand how they want totreat resnix as a company and I
know people get like treated forsome reason as taboo at some

(01:02:14):
points, which is just peoplegenerally that don't understand
how sound deadening actuallyworks.
Um, that put that aside andjust go look at Nick as a sound
deadening resource, um, whetheryou're buying his product or not
, going to his website, hisbuyer's guide, uh, and his new
site that's coming that I'veseen.
It's going to make it even wayeasier to digest.
There's so much goodinformation about and this is

(01:02:39):
free information about how tomake your car significantly
better.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Yeah, nick's got a lot of tips on his website.
I've read some of them and,yeah, you're right, the
information's on there and itcould make your car better
Anybody's car better.
And Nick's, you're right, theinformation's on there and it
could make your car betteranybody's car better.
And Nick's you know he's notcharging for that information.
He's not saying send me fivebucks for these PDF forms or
anything like that.
It's all on his website andthat says a lot about him.

(01:03:06):

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Oh for sure I think Nick has a vested interest in
making.
He made a post about this justthe other day that it was like
social media, especially in caraudio, is a blessing and a curse
, because it is so easy to soundeducated and so easy to copy
and paste something you heardfrom somebody else and not

(01:03:31):
actually understand what you'resaying, something you heard from
somebody else and not actuallyunderstand what you're saying.
But nick is trying to likeputting that information out
there is trying to steer theindustry and hobby as a whole
into a more accurateunderstanding of a subject
matter, and that is somethingthat is really difficult these
days.
To feel like you're gettingcredible information with how

(01:03:53):
much we get thrown at us daily,whether it's facebook or or
forums.
Trying to sift through whatpeople are telling you and how
to trust that information isincredibly difficult.
It can be easily misleading.
But I think that that's where,like nick, that's why nick and I

(01:04:15):
have always got along, becauseit's just I've been able to kind
of see, hear, feel his adviceand really, whether it's cars
that he's building or workingalongside him, it's like I can
understand.
The proof is in the pudding andthat's where I think I put a
lot of credibility in Nick, andsame with Matt Kim, same with

(01:04:38):
Miguel, people that I've seen dothis firsthand and produce the
results.
Is that that gives me thecredibility?
But it's really hard tounderstand that on social media,
because you can have somebodyputting out beautiful builds
that could be again, again, thebest fabricator in the world but
have could be tone deaf when itcomes to tuning or or they

(01:04:59):
don't value sound deadening andas soon as you turn their system
, uh, up to above 90 db, itfalls apart.
Uh, which is a huge majority ofshop builds that I hear, yeah,
and so, yeah, it's just, uh,it's.
It's hard to sift through thatinformation.
So I think that, um, I alwaysurge folks to take things with a

(01:05:21):
grain of salt.
Do your own research.
I think it's why DIY or installis so important to do at least
once, um, in some aspect of yourcar audio career, uh or tenure,
and because it makes youunderstand and appreciate some
of people who are just spewingjust bullshit and people who are

(01:05:41):
like, have done it, been in thetrenches, they're speaking from
experience when they're tellingyou something and again, that's
like where we were talkingabout earlier.
I feel like I've shortcut a lotof that poor wasted money.
I've wasted plenty of money inthis hobby, but I kind of got
over that hump quickly to okaythese people are good and I'm

(01:06:03):
going to latch on to them andfilter out everything else,
because the results speak forthemselves oh, definitely,
because, like you said, there's,you know the internet pretty
much.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
You know it's, it's, it's a free world there.
So there, there, a lot ofpeople regurgitate stuff that
they've heard.
You know, oh, these speakerssound this way and they never
even heard them.
But they heard somebody elsesay something on a Facebook
group or on Dyma and they justregurgitate the same information
and they've never even heardthem.

(01:06:35):
Or they say something about acertain dsp or a certain
amplifier or certain you know,and it's like you know, have you
been, have you been messed withthat component?
And they haven't.
But yet they're giving adviceon something they they know
nothing about or that theyhaven't even set their hands on.
But that's the internet for you.

(01:06:56):
So sometimes you got to take,uh, what people say on the
internet with a grain of saltand you actually got to trust
your ears, you got to trust youreyes more.
But speaking of trust, uh, withinstaller factor or the tuner
factor right, finding atrustworthy installer, finding a
trustworthy tuner factor?
Right, finding a trustworthyinstaller or finding a
trustworthy tuner what shouldpeople look for?

(01:07:18):
What type of red flags to avoidQuestions?
A customer should ask that,like, good installer doesn't
always equal good fabricator,and good fabricator doesn't
always equal good installer.
Why don't you tell people outthere what what to look for?
Because I know that you're ado-it-yourselfer that's how you
started, but now people canactually pay you as an installer

(01:07:42):
.
I know you're kind of aboutique installer and you do
limited amount of installs, butwhat should people look for when
they're looking for atrustworthy installer, not just
any installer?

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
So I'll start how.
It's a great question, becauseI think it is.
It's as hard as decipheringinternet sound quality advice is
.
It's just as difficult todecipher.
Who am I going to hand overthousands of dollars to?
To to build my SKU system To me?
You put, you push aside audiofor a second and you start to.

(01:08:17):
I find that I think I'm a prettygood read of people from a
character standpoint and, Ithink, getting some real honesty
.
It was really exactly how Iended up with the Jeep build in
the first place.
Chris, who I'm building theJeep for, came to my meetup last
year.
I did not realize what he hadinvested into his build and I

(01:08:39):
think he showed up with acertain expectation of, of
coming to like blow people'ssocks off, and his build was not
there.
And so I met him for the firsttime and, um, he comes over to
me and asks me to listen to hiscar and I listened to I don't
know three or four songs,glaringly bad issues, and so we,

(01:09:05):
we ended demo and I kind oflook at him because I'm not the
person anymore that goes, oh,sounds good like.
I will just objectively askpeople because some people like
I can, can kind of read if Ishould ask this question or not
is do you want me to be honest?
And people usually know thatthat's generally something not

(01:09:26):
great is coming on the otherside of that comment.
But I was really really honestwith Chris about it because the
fit and finish of his build wasreally really nice, but it just
was so objectively incorrectfrom a tuning and resonance
standpoint that when I, like ayear later, found out how much

(01:09:48):
he spent on it, I felt horriblefor him because that was his
experience in car audio spendingglobs of money on something
that looked pretty good, that hethought was great, because the
frame of reference for that shopwas, yeah, this was good and
they thought it was good whenthey delivered this product to
chris, but it was dog shit, itwas bad.

(01:10:10):
It was like and and I told himstraight up I was like this,
this, this and this is wrong.
And then I had not talked toMiguel.
He went to Miguel right afterMiguel listened to it and we
literally said the same exactthings to him and like fast
forward, 10 months later, thatblatant honesty was exactly like

(01:10:31):
Miguel and Chris had startedworking a little bit together
and Miguel and I got to do alittle bit together and Miguel
and I got to do a little bit ofwork on Miguel's car so he got
to see my install experiencefirsthand.
That same thing I had with Nick.
I got to see the the firsthandhow things actually would get
put together.
And then, a couple months later, chris was ready to do a build.
He had been working with Miguelon some system design and
Miguel put Chris and I togetherbecause she's from the Boston

(01:10:57):
area and that's how I ended upwith the Jeep build today.
It was not like selling or likeposting social media.
It was this very, very honestconversation.
So to me, spotting somebody whois being honest with you just
from like how their bodylanguage is, their eye contact,
they eye contact.
I know some people are verygood salesmen so it can be tough

(01:11:18):
to spot that, but that's thefirst thing I look at is do I
feel like this person is beingtruly genuine with me when it
comes to the installer and whatI'm looking for?
If somebody who is rattling offtons of reasons if we get into
some of these red flags, isstarting to just justify whether

(01:11:41):
it's we did this car, uh, orit's a brand name drop or it's a
um x amount of dollar bill thatI did for this person.
When they have to tell youtheir resume during the sales
process, it's usually a reallybig red flag to me.
They're trying to distract youand trap you into trusting them,

(01:12:07):
and sometimes they don't evenknow that they're doing that to
you because they think they'restill the cat's meow when it
comes to building systems.
But I don't.
I like my work.
If people want to go find it,they can.
I think to me, the word ofmouth is in the SQ world.

(01:12:27):
If you're looking to do thetypes of builds I like to build
these kind of one-off, reallyawesome bill like, like, awesome
as a like a scale big, likewe're going full bore with
everything.
The word of mouth um,advertising is the most
important piece are are otherpeople talking in that realm of

(01:12:52):
builds?
Are they having satisfactoryexperiences?
Are their systems holding up?
Uh, how was the feedback after?
Uh, were they responsive?
Uh, during, how is thecommunication?
I think communication is amassive, massive thing in
building these types of buildsand I think it's one of my
greatest strengths as aninstaller is my ability to
communicate before and duringthe process.

(01:13:15):
Um, because I want.
I got nothing to hide about howI do my my installs.
I'm trying not to give awayeverything that I do in terms of
trade tips and tricks but, like, like I'm, if you want to see
the inside of the the car whenit's completely stripped and
sound deadened, you're gonna see.
Sure, I'll send you 25 photos aday.
Uh, if that's what you'd like,or if it's something like hey

(01:13:36):
look, I'm noticing this.
I think we may need to shiftour plan with this.
People who are not willing tocommunicate openly with you.
I know that is again verydifferent as me as a kind of
boutique, one-off installer,versus a shop that is trying to
run a business and do production.
That level of communication Ican understand not being there

(01:13:58):
there's only so many hours in aday but I still think that you
should be able to clearlycommunicate with your customer
based on their needs, and Ithink that just from those
people that feel the need tojustify why they should get the
work are generally people thatdon't deserve it.

(01:14:20):
Um, I think that it just ifthey're, if they're so desperate
to get, to get your work,there's some other skeletons in
the closet that are are going toshow.
Uh, like I said is you may notnotice it day one, but then you
start peeling things apart, oryour car starts rattling apart

(01:14:42):
because, okay, now I'm going tofinally let it boogie and turn
it up.
And then, oh God, oh God,where's that rattle coming from?
And then you begin to realize,wow, there were some significant
corners cut in my build and Iwas not aware of that, and but
it looks great.
But everything behind thescenes was was rushed, uh, or

(01:15:04):
there was not enough hoursallocated to do the build
correctly.
And now you're in this reallytough situation of do I go back
to the same person and tell themto fix it?
Do they even know how to fix it?
Um, and then it's this perpetualcycle in car audio where so

(01:15:26):
many shops again they, they lackthis well-rounded approach.
Um, or they've come up with thisformula of how they do it and
that's how they do it.
Uh, the learning process haseither stopped or greatly halted
and now they're not willing tolook at other shops of how
they're doing things, or, um, orwork with manufacturers to

(01:15:49):
understand how their productsare getting developed and how
they can use them in a betterway.
And if you, if you, if you turnyour brain off to the learning
side of it.
Um, that that to me will comeout, I think, as you're getting
these quotes and installs and ifyou're passionate about this.
I think most people who arewalking into getting a 10 or 20,
30, 40, 000 sq install havesome realm of what it's about.

(01:16:12):
And if you walk in and the andthe shop is like starts telling
you everything that no, don't dothat, we do it this way.
No, you don't do that, we do itthis way, and just, and they
start yelling at you that way,like they're not gonna yell at
you, but it just some will.
Yeah, I had a shop owner in agood way like I can be, like I

(01:16:37):
can understand nick being likeokay, no, no, no, no.
Like when somebody brings inwhatever a lambo hurrican they
probably haven't spent 5 000hours on forums or doing it and
understanding they're like hey,I saw this 20 000 utopia
briefcase system, I want this inmy car.
And nick is going like no,that's, we're gonna put this in,

(01:16:59):
that's better for the locationand application.
Yeah, like, that's like therare situation, but you get the
I don't.
There.
There's some again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
This like feeling this desperation and
justification of why you shouldget the work to me again, as
always, in or out of car audiopeople who act like that, um,
yeah, it's generally not goingto lead to things there's shops
out there that want to buildyour next system, but then
there's shops out there, likeyou and nick, that want to build

(01:17:28):
your next five cars.
You know you, you want you to,you want the people to come back
, you want them to send yourfamily, you want them to send
your kids.
You know it just by word ofmouth, because word of mouth
travels fast.
And, just using this as an ananalogy, uh, car salesmen, you

(01:17:50):
got cars, some slick carsalesmen that you know they're
trying to sell you your next car.
But the trustworthy carsalesman, they want to sell you
your, your next five cars.
You know so, the trustworthycar salesman, they don't even
have to go after customers.
They sit inside and customerscome to them because you know,

(01:18:12):
uh, he, the guy sending his, his, his coworkers, he's sending
his daughter to him because theydidn't get shafted by that guy.
They didn't get.
You know, uh, swindled,basically.
Or when they told them, theypromised them this but the end
go, the end product was was notwhat they expected.
It looks good on the outsidebut, like you said, when you

(01:18:34):
peel things back, you take adoor panel apart, or you or you
look at the wiring and you seethat was subpar and you paid all
this money and they didn'treally care about the small
details that you know.
That kind of leaves a sourtaste in your mouth and you
don't want to go back to thatperson.
So then sometimes some people,like mike, said in the previous

(01:18:55):
podcast he, he got a, his carbuilt by a very reputable person
uh, one of the top people inthe us but he didn't get what he
was expecting and he spent alot of money and he was like you
know, now that I'm, I've, uh,you know, gotten the means in

(01:19:15):
his life at this point in hislife to be able to afford you
know his dream system, he didn'twant to do it again because
it's a lot of money, peoplepouring a lot of money and it's
like they don't want to do itagain to to possibly waste
another large chunk of money,you know.
So there's that trust andrapport that goes with this.
But what advice do you have for, like, builders to do it

(01:19:40):
yourself for and paying a pro?
What advice would you givesomeone just starting out
building an sq car?
Like, how different is theapproach for do-it-yourself
versus someone hiring a shop?
Is it possible to achieve greatsound cue without spending a
fortune to the second question.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Absolutely, I think there is sound quality and car
audio as a whole is.
Everybody has their owndefinition of diminishing
returns.
But generally there's a hugelysteep curve in diminishing
returns in car audio whereyou're either spending a

(01:20:22):
baseline and I don't evennecessarily mean in just actual
dollar value.
I think that there's a level ofequipment, time, investment.
Again, this kind of comes andyou have to relate to how
diminishing return and yourgoals, how do those align?
Because if your goals are to bewhatever, a top 10 competition

(01:20:45):
car in the country, you aregoing to be so deep into
diminishing returns you won'tknow what to do with your bank
account because or the amount oftime and, frankly, hundreds and
hundreds of hours you're goingto invest into getting there.
That's your like the rarity inhere you can spend fractions of

(01:21:08):
that, that value and time, byjust making some smart decisions
.
I think aligning, I think ifyou're going to get into this as
a new DIYer, I think some of mygreatest conversations I've had
so I do most calls, unlesssomebody has like a really
targeted thing that they alreadyhave I've had some people send

(01:21:37):
me like four page info sheetsthat their agendas that they
want to go through, which ishonestly great.
I appreciate that because wecan kind of just checklist
through a bunch of questionsthey're having.
But some people just want to belike, hey, I got my car, where
do I start?
And I think it kind of goes alittle bit against the grain of

(01:21:58):
DIYers are doing your ownresearch and spending money
without seeing like physicalreturn but a whatever.
Doesn't matter who you're doingit with.
There's plenty of people that dothis Jeff does it, miguel does
it, nick does it, I do it.
Uh, there's definitely otherpeople that do these kind of
consulting services where it'sjust conversation and if you can

(01:22:24):
get in a couple of thoseconversations and you're like
this person's, likecommunicating with you well and
like generally the people whoare offering these consulting
services that I know of in ourindustry are reliable People who
have built several cars or theyhave tuned hundreds of cars.

(01:22:45):
They've been around the hobbyenough to inform people of what
to do.
In other words, they've alreadymade the mistakes people.
Exactly that's what Luke istruly saying.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Luke've already made the mistakes.
People, that's what luke istruly saying.
Luke has already made themistakes.
He's already bought theinfinities, the pulks, the uh
the dynaliner, so he's givingyou he and the other guys that
are doing the consulting sageadvice and that has exactly that
that comes at a cost.
So, yeah, you might gripe for aconsulting session, but guess

(01:23:20):
what?
You're actually saving money,buddy yeah, exactly to me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
That is like I've had from anybody folks that have
experiences with install, uh, orthey they're trying to target a
specific issue in their vehicle.
But I think me, if you're brandnew to this and you want to get
yourself kick-started in theright way, do one of those calls
.
Do a couple of those calls,like Nick does.

(01:23:45):
He's super gentle the way thathe structures it.
You can spend $500 with him inconsulting and he will literally
credit.
If you go to purchase somethingfrom him which, between all the
Helix and MicroPrecision andhis actual sound treatment
products, it's easy to gojustify buying something from
his site to use in your build,and then he will credit you

(01:24:06):
every penny back from theconsultations into that purchase
.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Oh, there you go, so it's definitely worth it then
Exactly ago, so it's definitelyworth it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Then exactly, and you're getting like and the the
again coming back to like.
My own experiences in thishobby is that you're you.
You get to not take baby stepsin your progression.
You're like you're taking thesekind of large incremental steps
forward in having success fromthe beginning.
Uh, with a conversation likewhere somebody is not on a like
again, there's credible peopleon Facebook and in the forums,

(01:24:39):
but I will say that probably 95%of the population have never
done it themselves or are anecho chamber from somebody else
and where you're talking tothese people.
These are the 5% that are goingto give you really like you
said sage advice and save you alot of mistakes in time.
You learn really well frommistakes, don't get me wrong,

(01:25:03):
but if you're walking into thisand you're like, okay, I'm going
to spend $2,500 and you'retrying to build a budget system
for $5,000, it's really easy tomake a mistake that could cost
you half your budget instantly.
Uh, and buy an amp, set it upincorrectly, fry it, boom, there
goes 30 of your budget becauseyou thought you could do

(01:25:25):
something that you couldn't.
It's okay to not understandsomething, um where's that
computer on the car?
precisely it's like.
Is is like, spend the 150 bucksor the 100 bucks to to have a
conversation that is likelysaving you thousands.
Um, frankly, and and that's, Ithink, something that I would

(01:25:46):
encourage people who are verynew to this, or if they want to
dive deep into a topic and theywant to do this, I think that,
um, people may view that as atransactional relationship.
I, I think that you make itsound so like you make it sound
so dirty I know I do, but it'slike we I think we give out

(01:26:07):
advice, plenty of places forpeople to absorb and we give
ourselves, we give our all tothis hobby.
But I think if you I think it'sonly fair to, if you're going to
get some of that kind ofintimate knowledge, that, uh, I
think people are entitled to, um, to get compensated for that,
and I think that's completelyfair and I think it honestly it
puts a bigger value on theconversation.

(01:26:27):
I think somebody who isinvesting the time to have that
conversation is elevating it intheir mind and they're making it
more important and they're likereally dialing into that
conversation to get, it's likejudge feedback.
It's like, okay, this is.
I don't get to do this often,so I'm really going to pay
attention and really going tofocus on what I'm getting out of
this and I think if people kindof treat it that way I've never

(01:26:51):
had somebody come out of theother side of the conversation
be like, well, well, that was agiant waste of time.
I very often have two or threefollow-up calls with most people
that I do it with.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
Yeah, there you go.
So they found some value inthose phone calls or those text
sessions with Luke.
So, luke, we're going to wrapthis up, but I want to say this
was a great podcast, but I wantto get some final thoughts from
you.
If, uh, if you could grab theyounger version of yourself, the

(01:27:22):
young buck luke, when he wasabout to hit click on the
checkout box at crutchfield, uh,when he was buying those, those
, uh infinities and thatdynaliner, that quarter-inch
thick Dynaliner that was goingto just tame all the rattles in
the vehicle that he was puttingit in.

(01:27:42):
What would you say to your pastself with regards to building
your first SQ car or truck?

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
I would tell myself to stop and read um I think that
put the mouse down it is veryeasy to get trapped in shiny uh
words, speakers, things.
Um, crutchfield is a greatresource.
Uh, I think it still has itsplace.

(01:28:16):
But I think that if you'rereally passionate about music
and listening to it asaccurately as possible in a car
environment, um, do yourresearch, spend your time.
It is way easier to tounderstand flipping through a

(01:28:36):
book or using your mouse orthumb to scroll through not
necessarily just like Facebookand forums like go read.
Understand audio as afundamental piece and it kind of
makes you start to think foryourself.
I think that I would have made alot of decisions differently.
I used to be trapped in themore expensive is more better

(01:28:57):
part of SQ for the better partof 12 or 18 months, and that's a
five-figure mistake in my life.
And if I would have juststopped and read and begin to
understand, take my goal andreverse engineer my goal into
what steps I need to take to getthere, and reverse engineer my

(01:29:25):
goal into what steps I need totake to get there, I would have
been such a stronger installerand DIYer had I just thought
about it differently.
And so, yeah, stop and readwould be my advice.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I can speak for a lotof us that, yeah, we've made a
lot of mistakes.
We've learned from thosemistakes.
So it took a lot of trial anderror to get here, but it also
made us a lot more poorer to getto this point where you know
you could give this advice nowand you could save people a lot

(01:29:54):
of aggravation, a lot ofheadache, but you can also save
them a lot of money.
So in the end it's, it's, it'sworth it sometimes to go to a
professional, to go to somebodyto get a consultation, go to
somebody to get a well plannedsq system laid out, and, uh, I

(01:30:14):
mean, you know, if you want todo it yourself, you're more than
welcome.
That that that's, that's funtoo, don't get me wrong.
You know, you, you, you know,just get ready.
Where that that could you know.
We call it the rabbit hole.
You're going to go down thisrabbit hole where you're going
to do a lot of trial and error.
Not everybody gets it right.
Some people get frustrated,people get lucky.

(01:30:35):
It's a roll of the dice andthey're like oh wow, this, this
set of components that I pickedout, turned out pretty good.
Luke, thank you for being onthe sq, the sound cue podcast.
Uh, tell people one more timeabout your upcoming event I
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
so first, thank you, ed, this was awesome.
I like just looking down.
We've talked for what?
An hour and 45 minutes.
Oh yeah, not surprising.
But thank you again.
But yes, so if you guys want tocome up, find me on Instagram
rwsoundworks.
There's a link in my bio.
There's an event in Brunswick,maine.
It's called the Midcoast SQRally.

(01:31:11):
It's on August 9th.
Again, we're doing IASCA 3X andMassCue mobile audio sound
quality, and then we're justhaving a great meetup where you
throw me some money, I'll keepyou fed and your belly full and
your head full of music for theentire day.
We start up at 8 am.
We usually wrap around 6, 7 pm.
A bunch of us usually go out todinner, but again, rwsoundworks

(01:31:34):
on Instagram, up in Maine, comefind me, reach out to me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
I'm here as a resource here and again.
Thanks, ed for a greatconversation.
Thank you, luke.
It's a wrap.
Thank you, buddy.
Everybody say bye to Luke.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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