Chasing Sonic Perfection: When to DIY and When to Hire Pros Ep.2 with Mike Buononato

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What happens when passion for exceptional car audio collides with real-world installation challenges? In this revealing conversation with Mike Buononato, we explore the complex relationship between DIY enthusiasm and professional expertise in the pursuit of sonic perfection.

Fresh from the SVR competition with its 52 competing vehicles, Mike shares his astonishment at how uniquely each system interpreted "accurate sound reproduction." His experience auditioning the Riven center channel processor across multiple vehicles reveals how this technology creates consistent listening experiences from every seat—something previously difficult to achieve in automotive environments.

The heart of our discussion examines Mike's contrasting experiences: the disappointment of a professional installation that fell short during the pandemic versus the satisfaction of his current Volvo build that combines shop expertise with personal involvement. His journey reveals that the most rewarding path might be neither purely DIY nor completely hands-off, but rather a collaborative approach that leverages professional knowledge while maintaining personal control.

We dive deep into the unsung hero of car audio: sound deadening. "Getting the car to that level is almost harder than the actual install of the speakers," Mike explains, detailing how eliminating resonances creates the foundation for everything that follows. This often-overlooked step separates good systems from exceptional ones, regardless of component quality or installation cost.

Whether you're considering your first upgrade or planning your next competition vehicle, this conversation offers practical wisdom about researching before buying, choosing the right platform, and finding trustworthy partners for your audio journey. Most importantly, it celebrates the collaborative spirit of the car audio community, where even competitors willingly share knowledge and support each other's passion for extraordinary sound.

Join us at Hudson Valley Regional on May 30th next year to experience this community firsthand and hear what's possible when enthusiasm meets expertise.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
welcome everybody to episode two of the sound cue
podcast.
Today I have mike, and I hope Idon't butcher your last name.
Is it bononatoato?
That's perfect.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
How you doing.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
I got it.
I got it right off the firstshot.
Yes, you did.
I'm doing good, Mike.
How you doing?
Keeping cool today.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean what is it?
91 degrees here in lovely NewYork.
It went from raining for sevenmonths straight to blistering
Phoenix level heat.
But you know what I'm workingfrom home?
It's nice and cool in here, solife's pretty good, Nice Sweet.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
So you just got back from SBR, correct?
I did yes.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I did.
And how was that?
Sbr is fantastic, man.
I have to say I have such agood time there.
I think part of that is becausemy expectations are not about
really the competition side ofthings.
You know, it's nice to havesome of the most amazing judges
and, of course, some of the topcars in the entire nation all
present at one time.
That's fantastic.

(01:14):
So I definitely acknowledge,like, the importance and scale
of the event.
But for me it's one of the fewchances that all my buddies are
in the same place at the sametime for an entire weekend and
we get to hang out, have a greattime, talk, smack, listen to
each other's systems, kind ofmess around and then meet new

(01:38):
people and kind of expand thefriendship group kind of thing.
And every year, without fail,that's what it's been for me.
I get to meet some amazingpeople, listen to some killer
systems, you know, and if at theend of the day I, you know,
walk away with a trophy orsomething great.
If not, no worries, I still hada blast.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, that's what's great about these get togethers
you get to meet new people, youget to hear some amazing cars,
you get to sometimes even getsome nuggets with their ideas,
and you know, because sometimesyou know, you see a lot of cars
and people are doing the kind ofthe same recipe over and over
again, but then once in a whileyou see somebody change it up
and you're like, oh, I didn'tknow I can do that.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
This was definitely a change up here.
Um, I missed last year, but Ihad been the previous three or
four.
So coming back this year, Idefinitely noticed that there
was a change in the air.
I think everybody to a Tstepped up quite a bit from
where I last saw their cars.
So I was a bit on a mission.

(02:42):
Just on a little side note, Iwanted to listen to every ribbon
car that I could get my hand on, because I mean that's
something for me that I wouldlove to try to tackle in the
very near future.
So, yeah, I mean, so I'm likeokay, if we have some of the
best in the nation and if theyhappen to have a Riven installed

(03:04):
and it's ready to rock, yeah,I'm sitting in that car Like I
want to hear how this thingcould be, and I tell you it did
not disappoint Nice, I think.
I sat in four separate vehiclesthat had Rivens and to a T, no
matter what seat I was in, I wasfloored.
So that alone huge, huge, hugewin for me.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
So the Riven DSP?
What is it?
Why don't you let people knowwhat the Riven is, so the people
that don't know what it is?
Sure?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Riven is a center channelextractor.
It goes prior to your DSP andamplifier and it redirects the
appropriate sound to your center.
So you need, like a centerchannel, an actual, you know,
speaker array there, uh, andthen diverts the remaining left,
right wherever it needs to be.

(03:55):
So I had been counseled in thepast like hey, you know, you got
to be a little mindful of thatbecause of how much music is
being directed to center, you'regoing to need to be careful
with speaker selection becauseeither the larger the speaker or
the lower into the frequencythat that speaker can go, the
better because of the depth ofsound that's being put there.

(04:17):
So it might not be somethingwhere you want to drop like a
three inch mid and have thattrying to carry the load,
because you're going to bemissing like quite a bit of the
information.
So that was a bit of the adagegoing into it.
But then I have to tell you I Iheard several systems,
everything from literally thatexact three inch mid example all

(04:37):
the way up to a six and a half,six and a half coincidental
driver in the center.
They both sounded really reallygood.
So again, tuning like theimplementation, how you're, you
know, how you set up your systemis probably more so the key
than speaker size.

(04:58):
Because I mean, let's face it,how many people have a center
channel area that can take aneight inch woofer Right?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, of course I think.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
the reality is it's going to be small so yeah, I
mean, there's like nobody,unless you're customizing your
entire dash or you know startingfrom scratch or you know
something like that.
So it was kind of nice for me,you know, to be able to see,
like, okay, different driverscan go here, you can still
achieve a great sound.
I don't know if it's I meanit's not at the at the level yet

(05:25):
of like a single seat tune thathas that just hits different.
But if you want pretty mucheverybody in any seat to have a
have an amazing tune, that'swithin like 90% of that.
This is a pretty cool, you know, it's a pretty cool little
piece of equipment.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, I've heard a lot about it.
I heard it on one of thepodcasts and I was like that
can't work, that's impossible,there's no how can they?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
you know that voodoo.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
But then I, you know, I hear more and more, basically
, people you know giving it thethumbs up and saying, yeah, this
thing's pretty amazing, andfrom reputable people, you know,
not just from somebody who youthink is trying to upsell it.
You start to get curious.
But my, what I'm curious aboutis because normally, the way,
the classic way that we tunewith rue or with you know, if
you have a helix dsp or anyother of the you know 40 other

(06:17):
dsps that are out there with theribbon, I imagine that you tune
differently, correct?
Because now you have a centerchannel.
Do you know more or less whatthe process is to get the best
sound out of a ribbon whenyou're using a ribbon?
Because I imagine that you'renot going to tune like normal,
like the single seat.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
So I can tell you that you're dead on Now.
The logistics and exactly howyou go about doing that I
haven't tackled yet.
That's something that is stillin the works for me, but I've
been reading up on it and Ithink, in layman terms, the way
I'm kind of looking at it isyeah, you're right, you're not
setting it up to this deadcenter tune.
You're almost setting up in thedriver's seat, you're making

(07:00):
left center your center, andthen when you sit in the
passenger seat, you're creatinga different triangle and you're
making right center your center,and then when you merge the two
, you get kind of twointeracting centers in a way.
So it's really interesting howit does it Now.
I say that, by the way.

(07:21):
I just told you what theoverarching theory is how to get
there.
Yeah, that's definitely atricky piece, because that's
something I'm going to have todive in and really take my time
to learn.
I know that's where the rubberhits the road.
There was definitely a part ofme that was somewhat hoping that
it would be plug and play and Ipress a button and it does
everything for me.
That would be genius.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh man, as you know, all things car audio.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
It's never that simple, of course.
Yeah, it's going to be far morecomplicated, but then it makes
it worth it, right, like if youknow that the goal at the end
here is to have this amazingsound from all seats and there
is a path.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
once you do, you've kind of earned that oh man, it's
like nothing that feels better,just dying to hear one I know
that uh, I'm looking forward toit.
At the last one of the lastget-togethers, I think they gave
one as a prize.
If, uh, if memory uh serves me,right.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
so that was my get-together, that's right, so,
yeah.
So, yep, riven.
Riven was the, the actual titlesponsor of our event, and they
gave away one of their units andit was custom engraved with the
event on it.
Super nice, and, if you recall,luke won that piece of

(08:39):
equipment.
Oh, okay, I asked him after theshow, before he left to go back
to Maine.
I said, hey, just checking in,are you actually going to
install that?
And he's like yeah, I'm notreally a center guy, like I'm a,
I'm a single seat guy.
I'm probably never, you know,going to install this.
And I said, well, would youwant to sell it?

(09:02):
And he's like, absolutely.
So we struck a deal and that'sthe ribbon that I now have.
So I have my own show's ribbonthat I bought from Luke and it's
anxiously awaiting me finishingup the install, getting a
proper center speakerarrangement know speaker

(09:25):
arrangement in into my car andthen seeing what the heck I can
do with it.
But that's, that's like awinter project so you have, you
still have, um.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, let everybody know what kind of car you have
currently I have.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
So I have a.
I have a 2020 volvo s90 thatI've had since.
Oh man, I've been competingwith that car for five years now
, I think yeah, just about fiveyears.
It's gone through a coupledifferent iterations as I've
gotten back into this sport,trying to re-figure out things
that I like and how I like mysystems to be and sound and all

(10:02):
that.
So my current iteration thatI'm on now is probably my
favorite of all of them, yeah,and it's really starting to get
to where I want it to be and I'mhaving an absolute blast.
That car I mean, she's got80,000 miles on her.
It's been fantastic and is sucha wonderful platform for this.

(10:26):
It's almost like it'stailor-made to have like
tremendous width and great soundand all that, so I really
couldn't be happier with it.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, I noticed that, like Nick.
Does Nick have the same modelas you do, or is that a
different model?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, so he has an S60.
And they're essentially thesame car from like a dashboard
standpoint.
I think mine is just a littlebit longer and it gives the room
.
It gives the room more so inlike the rear seat area so you
can kind of stretch your legs alittle bit more, and it has a
little bit of a bigger trunk.
But no, it's got the same exactsetup as nick yeah, he's, they

(11:04):
look, he's definitely a lotbraver than I and he, you know,
pulled his dash out and put midsin the corners and yeah he's.
He's willing to slice more thanI am.
I'm a uh I I don't um competein those classes.
Yeah, I try to stick to more oflike an OEM mod.

(11:25):
That's just more my passion.
I like trying to get the bestout of what I'm given and see
where that takes me until Imaximize that and then I'll
figure something else out.
But that's been a fun journeyfor me.
I just love that challenge.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, there are levels to this, because some
people will literally removetheir dash, some people will
just take everything out, theywill cut holes on the floor
underneath the seats and youknow some, some of these guys
will make their turn their carsinto swiss cheese.
All in the name of, totally of,of.
Uh, you know that, perfect,chasing that last 5%, because I

(12:06):
think most cars you can get upto 90, 95%, even in the stock
location.
It's those people that wantthat last 2, 3% that are, you
know, that's where it starts toget expensive, because you're
really getting into diminishingresults, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, you just nailed it because you have to know,
going in like, what are youwilling to do?
Because you're going to belistening to other vehicles,
where the price of the equipmentis not a barrier for them
Cutting up the car, they don'thesitate because they know what
they're doing.
They know exactly where theywant that old to be, they know

(12:45):
how to size it, they know how tomake it safe.
Do all these things to achievethese incremental gains.
But when you're chasing thebest of the best and you're
competing in the uppercategories, it's kind of like
what you have to do.
That's almost like table stakesat this point.
Yeah, that's almost like tablestakes at this point.

(13:07):
Yeah, if you're, if you'repunching in the lower classes
more stock, you know stock.
Like you know it's not quite asuh crazy a need to do all those
.
Yeah, and I just don't have theheart to cut a car.
Man, I just can't do it.
There's something about it forme.
It's like when I do that, likeI'm going to own this car all
the way until death.

(13:27):
Yeah, because I could neversell that to another person.
I mean, I don't know if thataffects.
You know if it's going to rustor not, or you know this, that
and the other.
I would be worrying about that.
My brain is not wired to beable to handle that.
I'll tell you what.
So, yeah, so again, you know,you know, you kind of have to

(13:49):
know what kind of SQ hobbyistare you?
Yeah, you know.
Are you somebody who's going todo anything it takes to be at
the absolute pinnacle, or I'mnot that I'm definitely more
like no.
I'd rather enjoy within thelimits of my vehicle and my
abilities, on a reasonablebudget.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
So I've heard your car several times and I think,
even with the stock locations, Ithink your car Ryan's car,
certain cars just lendthemselves towards what I call
like a sound cue type car, causeyou guys have, you know, a wide
dash, you guys have plenty ofroom for speakers.

(14:32):
So some cars, you don't have tocut the floor, you don't have
to.
You know, I don't want todiscourage people out there, all
the do it yourselfers that arelike oh, I'm not cutting my
floor and it's like no selfersthat are like oh, I'm not
cutting my floor and it's likeno, some cars, some cars don't
need that.
You know, certain cars you knowlike, like the volvos and the
mercedes and the uh the camrys,they, they, they take well to uh

(14:54):
, to modifications, to uh likeoem the mercedes.
I know some of those have theuh the mid-base already in the
floor.
Some cars have the mid baseunderneath the, like the bmws
have uh eight inch woofers underthe seats.
So not every car has to get cutup no, I mean.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
So you kind of want to choose your vehicle right,
like if you can, and I I chosethe volvo specifically because,
like the bowers and Wilkinssystem that comes stock in those
, they spent a long time workingon keeping the mid and tweeter
very close together high up onthe door panels.
They're somewhat on accesstowards the driver and passenger

(15:36):
, even though you, I'm sorry,towards the driver, even though
you don't realize it, becausethey're buried behind grills,
and they just did a lot ofthings technically sound and it
showed they've been.
They've been rated one of thetop.
Um, well, for a stock system,one of this, one of the top
sounding stock systems that likeyou can purchase, like you know

(15:57):
what.
If I start with that in asemi-luxury vehicle because it
is a volvo, it's not I don'tthink that's like super high
luxury, but it does have triplelaminated glass, it does have
sound deadening.
It is a little bit of a moresolid platform to start with.
So if you had sound engineersin there doing their job

(16:17):
properly positioning the OEMspeakers, and then the platform
itself uses pretty heavy steelfor safety and sound deadening
and triple laminated glass andall those things, you have a
pretty good platform to startwith.
Now that doesn't mean you've gotto go out and break the bank.
I mean I bought it likecertified pre-owned.
It was not, it's not aextremely expensive vehicle.

(16:39):
Plus, it's affordable andnobody buys those anymore.
So it really wasn't a whole lotof money and it was reasonable.
And I mean, nowadays, shooteven like Honda Accord, like
yours and stuff.
I mean these are wonderful cars, they're extremely well-built,
they're great platforms andthere's a lot that you can do
with them.
And I'll say this, coming backfrom SVR it hammered this thing

(17:03):
home for me.
Every single system that Ilistened to at that event and it
had to be over I was closing inon about 20 different systems
that I listened to.
They're all different.
They're all different.
So you would think, wow, thisis an SQ competition where
reproducing the music asaccurately as possible is the

(17:25):
goal.
So I'm probably going to sitand all these vehicles are going
to sound the same, becausethat's the goal, right?
Well, there wasn't two thatsounded alike in any way.
And I'm talking same tuners,but different vehicles,
different times, differentequipment and different styles.

(17:45):
What people prefer in theirreproduction of music.
It's all different.
So I think would people kind ofget a little bit hung up on
scores from judges and things Idon't know.
I mean, if everybody is sodifferent, it comes down to you

(18:06):
know you might as well do whatyou like, because you're going
to be listening to it the other364 days a year, right, exactly,
and it becomes a little bit ofa preference contest a little
bit Right.
Yep, yep, I mean, accuracy isstill accuracy, but uh,
everybody's different.
Yeah, and I'll tell you, minedefinitely is, and I tell people

(18:26):
that when they sit in the caryou know just where I'm at right
now.
You had mentioned Ryan's car.
Ryan is technically moreefficient with his sound.
His sound signature is moreaccurate, it's more detailed,
it's more defined.
His center has better imagingthan mine.
His sound signature is moreaccurate, it's more detailed,

(18:46):
it's more defined.
His center has better imagingthan mine.
His clarity.
He's been dialing that systemin for a while, a little bit
longer than me.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's his focus and it's like a razor blade it just
cuts.
I mean it is really good, yeah,really really good, with still
having life to it.
It still sounds musical, whichI love.

(19:14):
It's not like a clinical soundMine.
It starts leaning a little bitcloser to like a virtual reality
ride.
It is super wide, it's kind oflike enveloping and engaging and
it's just a wild thing to kindof hear.
It's probably not the mostaccurate thing in the world, but
it sure is fun to listen to.
So I kind of love that.
So, and that's what I bring andhopefully someone else hears

(19:36):
that and goes wow, that's my cupof tea too.
If not, oh well, there's plentyof other cars and you've got to
find what it is that you like.
I think that's one of thebeauties of tea too.
If not, oh well, you know,there's plenty of other cars and
you've, and you've got to findwhat, what it is that you like.
I think that's that's one ofthe beauties of our hobby.
It's not all the same thing,it's not cookie cutter by any
stretch, and it really gives usthe ability to flex like

(19:56):
creative muscle and show notjust how we like things to sound
but look like how that installis and you know different levels
of like equipment choice andit's just so many ways to like
personalize and I don't knowabout you, but having fun with
my car has always been awonderful past oh yeah, some
people are showy.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
You can, you can go, you, you know, I don't what'd
you say, there was 20 plus carsthere yeah, uh, so at svr I
think 52, oh wow, total.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Oh yeah, it's huge.
I think I listened to almost 20cars, but there was 40.
So the 46 or 40 I think it was48 in just the shootout, meaning
not, uh, not like the orcs yepand I think he had I think larry
had over 52 cars there.
Like all in for everything, thatis a big event yeah, that is, I

(20:48):
mean it's crazy, yeah, how theyorchestrated over two days and
keep the judges rotating and itreally is a work of art.
They've they've got it down toa science and it's.
It's a lot of fun to be a partof yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
So when it comes to those cars, it's funny because
you see some cars who are alllike very stealthy and all the
equipment you could barely seeit and then some cars have like
neon, led and plexiglass andactuators and motors and
different stuff like that andit's.
It's just all dependent on thecar owner how flashy they want

(21:24):
to be, or you know where theywant to allocate their money.
Because so, you know, let'stake a car that has like a lot
of show to it with leds andmotorization.
That's not going to really addto the sound, but it sure does
look like.
You know, it's eye candy, youknow, and you're like, wow, that
looks amazing because our eyessee it.
So we, we still enjoy that.

(21:45):
Look, you know, and then youget the guy who's like you know,
that's not my forte, but I canappreciate that.
But I like this false floorhere where you open the trunk
and you don't see anything andthen you got all these amps
underneath.
That's where the magic happens.
So it's funny how some of uslike that showy, some of us like
that showy, some of us likethat stealth and some guys are

(22:05):
in the middle where it's likeshowy and stealthy at the same
time so it's just ironic house.
but you know, for the people outthere I want to say you don't
have to go with led this and ledthat and plexiglass that
sometimes that money is betterspent on better components or
better installation or somethinglike that.
So just keep that in mind whenyou're when you're designing

(22:28):
your system.
So why don't you tell people alittle bit about your background
and how you got into SoundQ perse and what led you down this
journey?
You know just a quick littletwo or three minute bio on your
on your journey and what got youhere uh.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
So when I was younger , probably about 16 years old,
my brother's best friend starteda um, a car audio shop right
out of his driveway.
Um, he was older, I just Iwould be over there anyway and
he started working on somepretty amazing cars and I'm a
little bit older, so some of thecars that he was getting in was

(23:13):
like a 300Z twin turbo whenthey first came out there like
the mid nineties, like, like,like Porsche 911s.
He was getting higher end carsand we were putting in some
really fun loud systems in themand that hooked me, man, like
that was fun to work on.
Driving down the road, top downsystem blaring.

(23:33):
There's just nothing betterthan that.
I went off to culinary school,kind of pursued that whole angle
and that's what I do for my jobnow.
But I never really left the caraudio.
I would always tinker withsomething in my own cars.
I'd have a little system, alittle something.
You know, a couple amps, acouple of this, never DSP and

(23:56):
going crazy, just a couple ofthings.
Now you flash forward all theway to about 2019, I think it
was just prior to COVID.
I decided you know what I'vebeen doing pretty good in life.
I've been reading up on allthese crazy new systems that are
coming out.
They just looked absolutelyamazing.
I want to dip my toe in thatpool and see where that takes me

(24:21):
.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
And man what a choice .

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Because from that moment forward, see where that
takes me.
And man, what a choice Cause.
From that moment forward, whenI drove down to Nick Apicella
shop and took a listen to hisHonda Civic at the time and his
partner there, um, kevinMullings, had he?
He had his Prius and I don'tknow if you ever got to hear
that but those two cars justsounded, man, they sound

(24:43):
fantastic yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Actually, the first time I met you um, I don't
remember the guy's name, but itwas at that get together during
covid, what at that guy's housethat had the goats.
Do you remember that?
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, we were all the way out,like cape cod yeah, yeah, yep,
cape cod.
And you had a passport yeah,passport, yep, yep.

(25:05):
I remember that.
And you had the element.
Right, I had the honda element.
Yeah, it was like a toaster andthat thing was so cool I still
like that car.
Oh it was.
I love that car to this dayit's.
It was one of the cars that Iwanted from when it first came
out.
It was just really cool,practical, like like nichey kind

(25:28):
of car, like it's got a.
It's got a cult following tothis day oh, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
I mean, if they ever brought that back, I would be
like first in line, yeah to buythat thing, that it would be
perfect.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
So it had so much room and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna
do a sound cue system in it.
Oh, what a major mistake wasthat?
That was basically you knowwhat Honda they don't.
They don't put any soundtreatment, they use the thin
metal that they could get awaywith.
The thing was so noisy.
I think I put probably threelayers of sound treatment and it

(25:59):
was still still rattling.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Not enough.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, it wasn't enough.
It wasn't a practical SQ car,that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
That was my passport, which is why I got out of that
vehicle, because no matter whatI did, it was just constantly
chasing rattles.
I mean, I don't mind doingsound deadening, I actually kind
of enjoy it, but I like to doit once.
I don't want to keep going backchasing rattle after rattle
because that, if there's onething I've learned over the last

(26:32):
six years of being back in thisgame, if you don't take care of
that, like resonance you're,you're dead.
Like it'll, it'll pull yourimaging, it'll, you know, the
sub will pull your head back.
You can, you know you startlocalizing everything.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, I think that's one of the single most important
things, oh God yeah, reallyhard to do.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I mean you can cheat your way around it as much as
you can.
I mean you could try to getyour mid-bass out of the doors,
put them down in the kicks totry to, so that way that door
panel isn't resonating all overthe place Like you could do it.
But still, if you have any typeof sub-base energy going on in
your car, it's going to find theweakest link and it's going to

(27:16):
rattle it.
We need to constantly chase it,chase it, chase it, address it.
So with my Volvo, now that I'vehad it for a bunch of years, I
mean that it finally is at apoint where I've been able to
quell pretty much all of thatand that has really helped to
start actually tuning andbuilding a good baseline where

(27:39):
I'm not just trying to cover upon flaws, I can actually just
tune the car for, you know,tuning sake exactly it's been.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
It's been a game changer, yeah, because you have
a nice dead, basically like adead environment.
That's what you want.
You want an environmentabsolutely it can put its best
foot forward, so to speak.
And basically, if you have abuzz over here or a rattle over
here or something, it's going toadd to the sound.

(28:09):
It's just going to drive youcrazy that you have, you know,
thousands of dollars or x amountof money in this car and it's
rattling and you're like whatthe hell?

Speaker 2 (28:22):
oh, no, totally.
I mean, and that's and that'sall part of the strategy too.
Right, like you've got to knowwhat your, what your base is.
You know, if you're startinglike in my case, if I'm starting
with a honda passport, I mightnot want to put two ohm um
mid-base drivers with 120 pluswatts to each playing at 60

(28:44):
hertz and down in my doors yep,like that is gonna you're gonna
be chasing that for a very longtime.
You know what I mean.
Like you might want to rethinkthat and be like, hey, I gotta
understand what it is I have.
Maybe I need to look at this alittle bit differently.
Like maybe I do need to thinkabout kicks or not putting so

(29:05):
much power to that driver andadding a front woofer, or just
like how you're gonna attack thelayout of your system.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
You kind of have to know that environment, that that
you're in and then, so that wayyou don't get trapped by that
inherent weakness that you'reconstantly trying to fix yeah,
and by by that token, um,basically, if you knock down or
kill all those resonances andwhatnot, then basically you can

(29:34):
start kind of like baking thatcake and getting your system all
situated in one.
I would almost say that gettingthe car to that level is almost
harder than the actual installof the speakers.
You know what I mean the, thebehind the scenes stuff that
people don't see.
You know, people see the, thespeakers and the nice grill and,
oh wow, he integrated that.

(29:54):
They don't see the wiring andthe and the, the, the, the
different types of material thatwe use to get those resonances
or things to stop buzzing, or.
You know, there's just a lot ofwork that goes into an actual
SQ car.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Oh yeah, and it's all under wraps, right.
So it's crazy, because I hadpretty much zero patience from
about my mid-30s on youngerright I think that's normal on
the top.
I would rush to get to thatpoint.

(30:34):
I wanted to see what it lookedlike and get it in there and
hear it playing like everythingelse was almost like just in my
way.
I wanted to get past it.
And then, man, like I neverthought it would come to me but
I started getting a little bitof patience and saying you know
what, I don't need to do itright away.
Like I can actually attack thisand spend an entire day just on

(30:58):
my front door panels doingnothing but sound deadening.
I mean working butyl into allthe creases and putting CLD and
just really like taking my timeand getting it done right before
I ever touched the speaker onit and thankfully, I mean
because you definitely needpatience in this.
At least I think, because if youstart rushing stuff, you start

(31:19):
getting sloppy and then you andthen you miss things and when
you button up everything, youjust ended up having to take it
all back apart again and doingit all over again, and that's
frustrating.
So having some patiencedefinitely helps.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
It is.
It is because when you rushthings and, like you said, you
got to take the door panel backapart, it's like, if you think
about it right, when you'retaking that door panel apart two
, three, four or five times,you're making that part looser
and looser, like you'rebasically like deteriorating the
panel.

(31:52):
You know what I mean.
Like um a lot of times when.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
So listen to this, though, shout out to volvo
portion a couple others.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
No panel clips oh yeah, that's right.
You had told me that beforethey've got those.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
They've got hooks on the back and, man, like you've
gotta lean in on the door panelwhile you're trying to hang it
and pull down to get them tolike engage, they almost suck
the panel onto the metal frame.
Nice they're, they just eat,like giving back great strength,

(32:25):
my honda, those door clips.
I felt like every time I poppedthe panel I probably should put
brand new clips on, because theclips would just get mangled,
oh yeah, on their way outsometimes they would pop and fly
to god knows where funny enoughI actually bought like 80 of
them.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
I bought a bag.
They're super cheap.
They're like five cents or tencents.
So I'm like you know what, letme buy like 80 of these.
I literally have a bag of thoseclips because they're basically
like a one-time use thing.
So it's like when you put thedoor panel back together it
doesn't go back together astightly and as taut as it was

(33:04):
from the factory.
Oh no, you know you're chasing alot of rattles.
It's maddening when you haveall this money and all this time
invested and then you hear atiny little buzz.
You're like, oh my, god, god,I'm gonna pull my hair out oh, I
know, you know it's funny,because I would.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I would bet good money that not only do you have
a whole bag of brand new clips,that you also, once you put the
new clips in, you're puttinglike tessa tape on each one,
yeah, so that when it doesengage it's not rattling around,
even like within its own hole.
Yep, right, yeah, that's that,that's what you have to do.

(33:41):
I mean, that's just anotherlittle detail, like another
little thing that can really paypretty big dividends if you
take your time.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, exactly All those little details do matter
because once they add up, allthose little grains of sand lead
to a beach.
That's the way I look at it andyeah, although the little
things matter, the detailsmatter.
Especially when your car isgetting judged or when your car
you know you have expensivedrivers, you may as well put

(34:12):
them in the best scenario thatthey could perform in.
You just don't want to takesome, like you know, some
accutans or focals and just slapthem in there.
you know, no sound deadening no,you're you're just gonna throw
them in there, like you swapthem out with the oem ones.
It's like some people thinkthat they could do that and get
great sound.
That's not how it works sound.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
That's not how it works.
Oh no, I mean I I don't knowabout you, but my philosophy is,
like, the more expensive the umequipment is speaker or
otherwise, like, everythingstarts to matter, right, if you
have high-end speakers, wellthen whatever is before them
should be of equal value.
So your amplifier should bepretty good, right, like really

(35:02):
good dynamics.
It shouldn't have noise, itshould be pretty high-end, and
then before that it should havea pretty good digital sound
processor and before that apretty clean source and it
really matters there.
So you know, if you want topunch up on the value of like
the equipment, that even more someans that everything in that

(35:26):
chain should start being anequal tier.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Just to begin to start to get the best out of it.
Just to begin to start to getthe best out of it.
They're not super expensivebecause you can slap them into
anything and they will alwayssound good Like it's not.
That's not why they'reexpensive.
They're expensive because theengineering that went in them
just like we were talking aboutbefore, guys were cutting up
their cars to chase every 10thof a point those, that type of

(35:57):
equipment can get you there.
It can get you that level ofdetail that you've never, ever
heard before.
But you're going to have totreat that with like a level of
respect and put everything aheadof it.
You know that that matters sothat they can get to that point.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
If that makes any sense to that point exactly.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
If that makes any sense unless it's rambling, I
mean no, it makes perfect senseso originally we never got into
it, but the original theme ofthis show uh, you got to forgive
me, folks out there in ininternet land.
This is only my second episode,so we're trying to get our wind
.
But, um, basically, I wantedthis show the theme to be about
uh do-it-yourselfer versus uhusing a shop.

(36:40):
I know that, um, from talkingto you in the past that you had
a little bit of a snag snafuwith your with your honda
passport, right.
Um, we won't get into too manydetails or drop any names like
that, but I just wanted to, uh,basically kind of go over the
pros and cons of using a shopversus doing it yourself, okay,

(37:04):
so, basically that's a greattopic, yeah yeah, I, because I
was thinking you know who betterto talk to than to the mic,
because you basically had yourHonda done by, basically by a
reputable shop, right, but itdidn't turn out quite as to your

(37:26):
expectations for lack of abetter word, right?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, no, you nailed it on the head.
So we had said before back inabout 2019 is when I started to
get back into this.
Not having ever touched adigital sound processor, it's
the first time I ever heard them.
Um, I knew it was a little bitum above my head, yeah, and with
how I was super busy at workand all that, I'm like you know

(37:50):
what.
Let me interview a couple shops, a couple of some of the top
shops in in my area here here onthe coast, and eventually go
with somebody.
So, as I said before, I hadlistened to nick's car, um, and
then I took a trip a little bitfurther south and I got to
listen to another car and seethe detail of the um

(38:13):
installation was just second toand it was one of the top people
I would arguably one of the toppeople still in this business.
A little bit unfortunate for me,covid hit right after, or no,
two weeks before, I wasscheduled to drop off the
passport, two weeks before I wasscheduled to drop off the

(38:37):
passport.
So you know, with everythingkind of shutting down and all
that stuff, what had happened isI kind of got a call saying you
know, a lot of the jobs thatwere originally scheduled to be
at the shop went away and myvehicle was kind of sitting
there and it was a hey, do youmind if we all kind of work on
it type thing.
And originally I was hiringlike not the whole shop to do it

(39:00):
but one of the key people atthe shop to do it.
But I felt like you know what,like everybody deserves it.
You know this is, you know, apro shop.
So absolutely let's, let's,let's, go ahead and, you know,
do this thing.
And that that was, that was amistake yep because the level of
the installation wasn't up towhat I had researched.

(39:21):
And, um, when I got the vehicleback, it had rattles and things
weren't installed the way Ilike them to be, and, um, I
really struggle with that.
That was a struggle, and,interestingly enough, I got
frustrated to the point where Idid drive down to nick's shop

(39:41):
and say, hey, can you listen tothis?
Like, is this just me?
Like, am I being overly likeanal about this whole thing?
Or is this really, you know,workmanship that should have
been better.
And when he looked at it, youknow even when the that should
have been better.
And when he looked at it, youknow, even when the cost he's
like well, I understand, likeyou know why they did this that
the other thing he's like, butthe sound is not, is not where

(40:03):
it should be.
Yeah, and I gotta tell you thatwas a moment with you know,
probably for me, what I spent onthe car is nowhere near what
other people spend at shops, butit was a lot of money for me,
yeah, and I remember thinkinglike, yeah, I'm never doing this
again, I'm never doing thisagain.
Um, I will say, though, I'mglad that that wasn't the case,

(40:28):
I'm glad that I put the passport, uh, back to stock and moved on
and picked up the volvo andsaid I want to be a little bit
more deliberate and go back atthis and kind of take it more
into my own hands.
I will say when the Volvo firstgot built, nick helped me out
tremendously on that, so it was,I would call that, an 85% shop

(40:54):
build between him and Matt Kim.
Yeah, putting that cardtogether with me, I did a few
things for it but they did kindof the majority.
But then when they gave me thatplatform, I took it from there.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
They've been helping me ever since because we're
friends.
But I was able to kind of getmore of the DIY aspect in since
then.
But I was able to kind of getmore of the DIY aspect in since
then and then over this pastyear when I completely reset the
entire vehicle back to zero andbuilt it back up again.
That was essentially like allme.
So I think that there can be agood mix.

(41:29):
If you pick the right shop, youcan have a wonderful experience
.
But I think it's like anything.
You can have a wonderfulexperience, but I think it's
like anything.
If you, if you want a job donein your house right like even if
it's painting a wall, takingthe time to learn how to do that
you're probably going to putmore care into it because it's

(41:49):
your home than anyone else.
Plus, it's not reasonable toexpect that a shop is going to
work out every little detail andresonance and issue with a car.
They would have to have it formonths and that's unrealistic
and wickedly expensive.
Yeah, so their job is to kindof get you going, maybe jump

(42:12):
start the platform, and if youdo it like that and have pros do
the basics, there's nothingwrong with that.
That kind of gives you awonderful baseline to kind of
jump in and work from there.
Or you're going to go ground upand it's going to take you a
little bit of a longer likelearning curve typically.
Yeah, I think both have merit,yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
So some of the pros what a shop is basically like,
what you, what happened withwith nick is you get the support
system and you get the.
You get to come back and say,hey man, yeah, I gotta work this
out.
But also some of the cons isthe cost.
But with the do-it-yourselfer,some of the pros are that you're
gonna know that that it's doneright.

(42:54):
It's going to take you a littlelonger.
You might need to learn how tofabricate a little bit.
So one of the things that Irecommend out there to the
do-it-yourselfer is is thissomething you think you could
take on?
Are you handy with tools?
Are you handy with fabrication,fabrication skills?
Do you have fabrication skills?
Do you have a network offriends or a network, a shop

(43:19):
that you could work with?
Because let me tell you,there's a lot of shops that
won't allow what you do withnick, where you're kind of got
your hands in there and you'redoing things, and some shops are
like I'm not working on thatcar, he's gonna mess up my work,
you know.
You know I'm not saying allshops are like that, but some
are.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
So there's pros and cons to the do-it-yourselfer
side and going the pro side witha shop man, I, I, I know
completely that I am one lucky,lucky dude, because you just
nailed it.
I, if I had a shop, I don'tknow if I would want a diy guy

(43:59):
hanging around in my shop.
Um, you know, working on theirvehicle, like that kind of
doesn't make a lot of sense,yeah, so I try not to abuse that
.
You know I don't ask for freethings.
I don't show up just to likestart working on my car.
You know what I mean.
Like, if I'm there, it'sbecause I'm paying for a service

(44:23):
.
So there are parts of thingsthat if I want to learn how to
do, um, when I went to do uhfront sub here in the volvo, I
knew I wanted to work with mattkim on that and have him show me

(44:49):
some of like the 3d scanningwork that he is now, you know,
doing uh in order to kind ofchase what I was trying to do in
there.
So we worked for two weekendsin a row to get that thing
sorted and where it's at, and Iwas just as hands-on through the
whole process.
I tried to do as much as Ipossibly could in there so that

(45:10):
Matt wouldn't be having to doeverything right.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
But so also that I can learn and I'm lucky because
there's a friendship there.
It's not just a shop.
So I think you have to becareful because you don't want
to abuse the relationship.
And that goes with anything,that goes with other DIY friends
, that goes with shops.
I think that's just good socialpractice, right yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
of course.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Understand that people and their talent.
It took them time to get tothat point.
So if you're looking to learnfrom that, you might need to
compensate for that, and it'snot always with money.
You know you can compensate byhelping them in other areas that
maybe they're not as strong in.
Or, you know, picking up lunchand doing some nice things like

(45:57):
you know, making sure that it'snot all take, yeah, that you're
giving back to, and again,that's basic social standards.
But I got to tell you in ourhobby I do see like people are
so hungry for the informationthat they forget sometimes that
when they're just taking and notgiving back, uh, that can come

(46:18):
across kind of kind of tough forsome people yep.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
So I think this is my opinion is that people like
matt, kim, nick, kevin, just toname a few, they make it look
easy.
When you see a front sub, yeah,they really do from like nick
or matt, kim or kevin, they itliterally looks like it's like
it's oem, it's it's just like awork of art, and they make it

(46:44):
look so easy that you got thediyers out there that are like,
oh, I can do that, I can do that, that, that I can do that.
It's like no, you can't.
These guys have years and yearsof experience, years of of, of,
uh, trial and error and tryingdifferent things and you know,
and they just didn't get towhere they are overnight.

(47:07):
Some people, hey, they havethat talent and they, they learn
those skills pretty quickly.
Most people, you know, theylearn as they go, and so to have
a diy or come in and be like,oh, hey, you know, the other
thing is, too, that you got totrust your shop.
So if you come, in and you got.
You got ideas and you're like,hey, I think I want this front
sub, but I want it firing thisway, I want it firing up or I

(47:30):
want it firing forward, and yourinstaller tells you I don't
think that's going to work.
You need to trust yourinstaller and you, I don't think
that's going to work.
You need to trust yourinstaller and, you know, trust
their instinct or trust theirskills to get that job done,
wouldn't you say?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, like absolutely .
And it's interesting because Iknew how to fiberglass, right?
I think we've all dabbled in itor given it a shot, right.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
But I didn't know how to do it well, I tell you, oh,
it stinks, man.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Does it stink that like gets in your nose?
I mean anybody who's done it.
You know that smell, I don'teven have to say it.
You're smelling it right now asI'm talking about it.
But in working with Matt over Ithink it was in january when we
were doing that he's done somany like, I think I think you
said before, like hundreds ofcars.

(48:21):
So he has a system everythingdown from the ratios you know
that are, you know going intolike the epoxy, you know like
how much hardener and so on, toget it where it cures faster and
stronger.
Yeah, uh, how many layers, howyou put those layers in, like
all of it, all of it, everysingle bit of it, has a

(48:44):
precision to it.
And when you're chasing everylittle detail, man, do those
matter?
Because I I went in saying toMatt yes, I want a front woofer.
However, I do not want to losea millimeter of space.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh, wow, how did you accomplish that?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Well, I had done research on my own.
So this is where I think thatthe blend matters and shops will
learn to appreciate you as anindividual if you go the extra
mile.
Before I ever made that claimto Matt, I had done my own
research.
I had taken out the passengerseat in the Volvo, I had removed

(49:26):
the carpet in that area and Ihad researched the entire area
where that enclosure would goand I found that there was about
four inches of foam paddingbehind the carpet where your
feet, you know, go on that slantarea.
I had about four inches ofcarpet there to play with and I
also had it's almost like adummy box that was installed up

(49:52):
against the firewall on an anglethat gave me another let's call
it eight inches, like six toeight inches of space.
Oh, wow.
So if I could, yeah, so I toldhim look, and I had pictures, I
had documented everything.
I'm like, if I can relocate thispiece of equipment over to the

(50:13):
side area and remove the foampadding off the back of the
carpet and take this, I think Ican free up enough space to do a
firewall, firing about a half acube sealed uh, you know,
sealed enclosure and put it onall the same angles and
everything and lose absolutelynothing.
You would never, ever know thatit's in there, never.

(50:35):
And when he looked at it he'slike huh, show me.
So I, you know, pulled the seatagain, pulled the carpet, and
when we took everything out andhe looked at it he's like I'll
be damned.
You know, because that thatVolvo chassis is shared with the
uh, you know, with, like theXC90 and the S60, they have
different levels of foam paddingand things to kind of take up

(50:57):
that space.
I happen to be fortunate that Ifound that there's quite a bit
of room just residing back there.
So by tapping into that andlike customizing that area, we
were able to fiberglass andinstall that exact sealed
enclosure, firewall firing andget it where you would never,

(51:18):
ever know it looks bone stock,it doesn't eat up anything,
that's impressive.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
It's so cool.
That's awesome, so cool.
I can't wait to see it.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Oh man, I'm telling you it's badass.
But that's where I think bothcan coincide, because that's
really where we're trying to goright.
I think every DIYer, you have apassion to want to do it
yourself, but you wish you had alittle bit more knowledge, yeah
, to be able to do it better andfaster.
So then there's the shop ownerwho doesn't really want to deal

(51:48):
with you because you're not justgiving them a you know, a
bigger check to do it allthemselves, so you're not as
enticing of a sale for them andlike rightfully so.
But that middle ground, if youcan kind of prove yourself that
you're as engaged and asinterested more so than the

(52:09):
other clients that they'reworking with and you're really
chasing like SQ and qualitysound and you want to represent
them well too, I think that'swhere you can start to have an
equal voice.
But you do.
You do have to do some work.
You got to do some research,you got to map out your plan.
You need a plan, like you needto be pretty solid in that and
kind of stick to it.

(52:30):
And when they see that, thatyou're, you're on a mission and
you know what you want and youjust want to learn how to do it
better.
That's different than someonecomes in who doesn't really know
what they want and is a bitflighty and cause they just know
that's a recipe for likedisaster.
Yep, it's, it's, they're.
They're going to be lending allthis help and you're not really
going to be satisfied.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Oh, somewhere in the middle is probably a happy place
, right?

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, somewhere in the middle is probably happy
place, right?
Yeah?
Well, I'm sure they have theirshare of nightmare customers and
every, every shop does you know?
But who knows, man, if you, youknow, if you ever have like
nick on, he might say, yeah,mike is a nightmare customer.
I don't know.
You think maybe that's possible.
I really try to not be, but uh,I guess.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Well, I guess we'll find out you know, it takes a
kind of a special kind of weirdoto be into this level of sound
cue and I think we're all kindof in that boat Because I like
in shops like Nick's and Kevin'sor any of these elite shops,
these guys aren't doing deck andtwo or putting in like $40

(53:35):
speakers for somebody who wantsbetter speakers in their, in
their Hyundai Elantra, coming inand and and they just bought
their Hyundai or Honda or youknow, toyota, whatever.
Hey, I want better speakers.
Or my left speakers popped they, they don't, they don't do that
.
These are, I would almost likenthem to like boutique specialty
shops that are really like doinghigh-end stuff because, believe

(53:58):
it or not, when I in the 90s, Iused to be an installer and
these the big jobs we used tolose money on them.
They, they loved, uh, the deckand two, a cd player and and and
two speakers, or deck and four.
They call them in the alarmsbecause, like anything else when
you could crank it out fast,that's where they're making

(54:19):
their money.
Yep, so in in these shops?
I could totally see that yeah,that that's where they made
their money and with these shops, these they they're boutique
customers.
So it's like you know they haveparticular taste and people are
coming in with high-endautomobiles and you know you
have to be on your A game.

(54:39):
You know, because I've seensome of the cars that Nick works
on and these are, you know,porsches, german cars you got.
Oh yeah, ferraris and thehundred thousand dollar Corvette
.
And it's like me, I'd be scaredshitless to touch one of those
cars you know, I don't even wantto know what the door panel on

(55:01):
a porsche costs, you know Idon't have the guts to do that
either.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
It's, it's.
It's funny.
You say that I admire that they.
I think one of my favoritevehicles that those guys ever
worked on was a Mercedes AMGcoupe.
So it was like a, it was likean S class coupe, that big one.
Yeah, I mean that is.
It's a stone cold stunner whenyou see it in person and it Well

(55:29):
, of course the install wascrazy and was beautiful and all
that good stuff.
But to sit there and touch thatcar and start cutting up on
panels and stuff to get it to bethat amazing, I don't know if I
have the guts for that.
So you've got to have a prettyhigh level of competence to be
able to do it.
And that's why those shopsexist for that higher tier

(55:52):
customer.
They just have such amazingknowledge to be able to do that
and to do it flawlessly so thatthere's no issues.
I mean, just think about itIntegrating within that system
so that everything works and itworks well, from, like, the
volume controls on the steeringwheel to not having sound at
startup, to everything justworks.
That's an art it really is.

(56:15):
I mean that alone just likejust handling, like the
integration side in a you know,modern vehicle it might.
That alone might be worthhaving a shop kind of help with
yeah, exactly that's what'ssuper difficult.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
That's what some of the diyers need to keep in mind
that when you you know you'regoing to cut into your car, you
don't know if there's some sortof like computer behind that
panel.
Um, a lot of the cars now have,like you know, the the all
kinds of freaking electronicwizardry that that aid the
driver and some might say thatit's, it's too much these days

(56:50):
because it's taking the skillout of driving.
But you know they do it in thename of safety, but that you
know like, because back earlieryou were talking about how some
people put speakers in the kickpanels.
Well, a lot of the newer carsnow have all kinds of electronic
stuff behind the kick panels.
So, would a reputable shop.

(57:11):
What they're going to do isthey're going to relocate those
electronics.
They're going to find a way tomount those speakers in the kick
panels, because they've done it, they've been there, done that.
So when you're a DIYer, I don'twant to discourage a DIYer.
There's some of the best systemsI've heard were from DIYers,

(57:31):
and some of these guys that arebig time installers started off
as diyers but you gotta rememberyou know when you're bringing
in a mercedes and you knowyou're liable to fry something
that could end up being veryexpensive that's where somebody
you know, one of those shopslike that, that's where their

(57:52):
knowledge comes in and theycould do it correctly and safely
.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, I think that's that's kind of what you know.
So I don't know if this ishitting the actual intent of the
topic, but DIY shop pros andcons to each I'm a firm believer
in it really again depends onon your use case.
You know, if I own, if I'mlucky enough to own, like a

(58:20):
lamborghini I don't know if Iwant to diy on that.
I think that's something youknow, just out of respect for
the vehicle, uh, I'm probablygonna wanna have someone with
expertise who's been there donethat.
Yeah, let them be now.
You could diy a little bitafter that.
Right, you want to do some sometuning like some fabrication

(58:42):
stuff like, but the, thebaseline, like the integration,
the basic install, the sounddeadening things like that, yeah
, you might want to enlist helpfrom another.
At least it probably has ahigher probability that that
would be a better way to go asopposed to, you know, like the
way you and I started.
I mean, if you're in a passportor an element or something a

(59:03):
little bit more affordable, well, you, you, you could take a
little bit more risk, I think,in something like that.
Definitely, you know, you know,you know doing a door panel in
a Honda product.
It's not stupid, expensive,even brand new.
Back from Honda again.
So if you make a mistake, itisn't the end of the world.
Exactly, and I would not want tomess up a high-end car.

(59:25):
So, yeah, so know your platformand where it is you're trying
to go, and in some cases a shopwould be absolutely fantastic
and others it's a DOI.
And then for me, somewhere inthe middle is kind of where I've
landed.
Now I'm not shy about askingfor help.
I will say I think there's abig difference between internet

(59:47):
help and actual help.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Oh, yeah, big time help.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Um, there's, that is a.
That is a black hole for me andthere's so many.
I try not to do it.
To be honest with you, man,Like if I, if I need information
, I know who to go to who'sgoing to?
not lead me astray and Iunderstand that in car audio
it's not really black and white,so there's no perfect answer to

(01:00:13):
every single question.
It's different ways of doingthings and so on, but just
generally online trying to takea lot of that is really tough
and it could add a lot more timeand frustration.
And I don't know about you likeI do this to be happy.
What I don't want to do is messthis up and have a bad

(01:00:36):
understanding of what it is I'mtrying to do and actually make
things worse.
So I've learned it the hard way.
I think, as most of us have,that sometimes like less is more
, like it's nice to read onlineand see posts and stuff like
that, but I don't take thatstuff to heart.
I try to figure it out and domy own research or just reach

(01:00:58):
out to those who I trust, whohave been there, done that and
that, and that is not just ashock.
You know that.
You know to bring it all backagain, that would you know.
That would be a Ryan to say hey, you know what are.
What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
You know and then use the practical knowledge from an
individual that has done that.
Yeah, exactly, you always, youalways, uh.
There was a saying I I don'tremember it now.
It was something like uh uh.
A smart man learns from hismistakes.

(01:01:32):
A wise man learns from others'mistakes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
There you go, I'm all about that.
Yeah, let me tell you, I yeah Imean, maybe younger me was like
yeah, I want to createeverything from scratch and I
want to own it and I want to be,you know, the one who invented
all these things.
And now it's like man, like ifthere's, if there's somebody
who's more knowledgeable outthere, you know, which there
always is right.
I am open to anything, likewhoever has it, like I just want

(01:01:59):
to, I just love it.
Yeah, so we can talk like soundquality and I learn something
more than win-win and hopefullyI can do the same for others,
and that's part of that.
Give back, right, right, youknow, as you like progress in
your knowledge.
I do think there's a little bitof a pay it forward obligation
for you to give back, and that'sprobably the primary reason why

(01:02:22):
I wanted to host a show.
I wanted HVR to be a place fornot just pros who had, you know,
decades of experience, but alsofor those who are coming up and
to give them not just a placeto have a show but a place to
actually win.
So you know, if you go to a lotof shows now all the money

(01:02:46):
rounds and, like the competitionside, that's not org related,
all the prizes and money thatcan be won, it's just a big pool
of people.
So here you are with your DIYsemi-basic system going up
against somebody with decades ofexperience, and whether or not
the equipment is high end, itdoesn't really matter.

(01:03:07):
It's just who you're actuallycompeting with has just so much
more knowledge and it's notreally a fair fight actually
competing with has just so muchmore knowledge and it's not
really a fair fight.
So I felt like, okay, so my giveback could be let's create a
place where it's split up andthe amateurs have a chance to

(01:03:27):
win just as the pros do, and theprizes are equal One is not
better than another because thatincentivizes people to kind of
move forward within the sportand want to learn more, and also
it gives them a chance to bearound pros and feel like they
have a voice, so you can listento their cars, learn from them,
talk to them.
Yeah, I mean having done thattwo years in a row now and we're

(01:03:48):
going to do our third againnext year.
That will always be the coremission of that show and that's
just one way that I look to giveback and, you know, hopefully
others are doing the same so forthose that don't know what
mike's talking about, hbr isbasically hudson valley
regionals and you started thatlike three years ago, correct I

(01:04:10):
started last year.
Yeah, last year was actually thefirst one.
Okay, um and uh, this year wasour second, so it's only been
around for two years oh, okay, Ithought there was one
previously.
No, no, no, this is you know,we've only had the two.
Uh, I'd like to say that we'rethat we're getting better at it,
we're, we're getting thingsdialed in.
Yes, our weather could ever begood, as you know.

(01:04:32):
It would be probably nice.
The weather's been a bit of akicker the last two years.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Yeah, last year was super hot and this year was
raining all day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Yeah, oh God, and it wasn't just raining, that was
like Noah Ark level of rainright, yeah, yeah, I should have
brought a raft.
You felt like you could gettaken away.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Man could get taken away, man that was tough.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
That was a tough, tough spot, but you know
everybody.
So then that just means thatnext year is going to be great.
I mean, you know then, thenthat means next year is going to
be 70 degrees and beautifulnext year is going to be
tornadoes don't say that, soyou're probably right once again
for any do di wires out there,or even pros alike, come down to
mike.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Why don't you tell the people a little bit about
hvr where it is, when it is.
Let them let everybody knowwhat you're, uh sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
So we just announced on facebook a couple days ago
that the third annual um soundquality event, which had uh as
the um, as the pro am shootoutthat I was just talking about
before that, is going to be heldon I think it's may 30th,
that's a saturday of of nextyear in the same spot.
It's been for two years.

(01:05:46):
It's in a beautiful park,setting on top of the hill,
wonderful views, plenty ofplaces to put your car park, and
I'd like to say we probablyhave the best food of any event
across the nation.
I'd hang my hat on that.
We do something different alittle bit every year.
Food comes with the price ofadmission and let me tell you,

(01:06:06):
it is worth it.
So, yeah, we, we try to get topjudges, top orgs, do our pro-am
shootout.
We've got some sponsors andwe're growing every year.
And we try to get top judges,top orgs, do our pro-am shootout
.
We've got some sponsors andwe're growing every year and we
love to have everybody we can,from all walks of life,
everybody's welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Yeah, I saw cars there that were still in their
baby stages.
That door panels weren't evenput in yet, to cars that were
just full-blown.
You know, uh, svr winners.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
So you know what, and it's.
It's actually exciting for thejudges too, like I remember
talking, you know, you know,with them.
It's like to be able to fit ina vehicle that is on its way
right, yeah.
And then they hear it again thenext year and they're like, oh
my god, like the changes to fitin a vehicle that is on its way
right.
And then they hear it again thenext year and they're like, oh
my God, like the changes thatwere made in that vehicle.
I mean, this is night and day.

(01:07:01):
This person is growing in thesport at like an exponential
rate.
We've been able to see thoselike that show starts fostering
that.
That's what we're looking tosee.
Just the proximity to excellentsounding systems and pros can
really beget a better experiencefor those who are like newer,

(01:07:23):
and that environment is justconducive to all that.
So that's really the hope forit.
We're seeing it kind of taketraction and place and, uh, yeah
, anything that we can do tokind of keep that spirit moving
forward, that is what we'regoing to do yeah, most
definitely, because you getinspired when you go to these
type of events.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
You know, you got your car and even I think I met
this guy I don't remember hisname, but uh, he was basically
going from car to car, listeningto all the cars and seeing what
, because it's it's tough tofind a shop these days and be
like, hey, I want to hear ohyeah, I want to hear JBL, I want
to hear Accuton or I want tohear this, that.

(01:08:05):
So this guy, you know that'sit's near impossible these days.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
But it is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
He came and he was listening to different cars and
different setups and he didn'thave anything in his car, but he
came there to to kind of makesome informed decisions.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
The best way to do it because, I mean, that is kind
of what we've been talking aboutin this entire podcast is, you
know, being an educated DIYer isreally the key.
Picking your platform in yourvehicle, then start auditioning
sound signatures.
What is your sound that you'regoing after?
Different speakers havedifferent sounds.

(01:08:45):
Different tuners are able to dodifferent things.
You know even that vehiclechoice it all matters.
So I mean, probably even betterthan that, to kind of level
that up is that if you own, like, a Nissan Sentra and that's
your ride, find a show wheresomebody is competing with a
Nissan Sentra Like, go listen tothat, like.

(01:09:07):
If you can even get that,that's even better, because now
that's your platform that you'relistening to.
But yeah, I think havingpatience when you're doing your
install is key, but so is thepre-work that goes before you
start buying anything.
Figure out what it is that youlike, what's your expectations,
how far do you want to go?

(01:09:27):
You know, like, is your goal towin trophies or is your goal to
have fun?
Like, to do the best that youcan, like you know.
Figure out what's right for youand then from there learn as
much as you can listen, as muchas you can.
Keep listening, even as you'restarting to figure stuff out,
because you don't have as muchfigured out as you think.

(01:09:48):
That's literally where I'm atright now.
Every time I think I knowsomething.
I I definitely don't, so youknow, but that constant learning
is what keeps it engaging andfun.
The same way I mean, I may cookfor a living, but I'm
hand-making a pizza right now asI'm talking to you, because I'm
trying to learn how to makebetter pizza at home.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Oh, save me a slice.
Save me a slice.
You got it, man, I got you.
So basically, I mean, I'll behonest with you I wish that when
I was younger and I was goingthrough my sound cue uh sq
journey that I knew, you know, Iwish I could have gone to get
togethers and and um, listenedand auditioned cars.

(01:10:29):
That way I could make someinformed decisions.
Because if I was to add up allthe money that I wasted in
buying these some speakers andbeing like, oh, I hate these and
you know, buying even high-endspeakers that you thought would
sound good and didn't.
And then and it's not alwaysabout buying the top of the line
you know, most expensive,esoteric, exotic speaker that

(01:10:54):
you could, that that's out there.
It don't think that.
You know, because you see someof these guys with some, some
pricey speakers, you don't haveto buy pricey speakers.
Some of the best soundingsystems ryan's for example his
system is totally for theeveryday joe and his system's
not ultra exotic, it's literallysomething that the regular guy

(01:11:18):
can achieve.
You know, ryan's got a simplesystem but it rivals some of the
most expensive systems outthere, costing five, six times
as much.
So a lot of times, sometimeswhen you spend a lot of money,
it's not, it's not aboutdropping a bunch of cheddar on a
system.
It's all about integrating thatin the tune and getting those

(01:11:41):
resonances.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
You know smacked down ever hear um, there used to be.
I mean, maybe this is stillgoing on, but people would
complain at like a competitionthat for those who I think it
was like built versus bought wasoh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:12:03):
You I've heard that like forthose who showed up with a
checkbook.
They wrote a fifty thousanddollar check and then they show
up at the competition and theydo well.
I'm like I don't ever.
I never understood thatargument because that has never
been the case.
In fact, it's the opposite.
It's humbling.
You know, just because youwrote a check, you take it to

(01:12:24):
the competition.
I don't know if I've seenanybody do well.
They get their butt handed tothem by people who have been
fine tuning their system foryears.
And here you are with a freshtune on a fresh system.
That hasn't been.
I mean just the sheer hoursthat other folks have in their

(01:12:45):
vehicles.
Yeah, it doesn't do well.
So built versus bought, kind ofhas died down.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
But, similar to you, man, the amount of money that
I've gone through like yeah Idon't even want to think about
it my wife's not here, but Idon't even want to think about
it yeah, because what peopledon't understand is yeah, if you
have the means to drop you knowx amount of money, just you

(01:13:12):
know, give this guy your blackcard and be like, hey, yeah just
do this, I'll be back in amonth.
And that doesn't mean thatyou're gonna you're gonna have a
good sounding car.
It's a reputable shop doesn'tmean that you're gonna win
competitions.
Doesn't mean that this guy overhere with um, you know, like a
system that cost a third of whatyou have his, might sound

(01:13:34):
better, believe it or not,because this guy put in the time
to do all the little details totrack down all those resonances
.
He played with angles, heplayed with different tunes,
played with different crossovers.
There's a lot that goes intomaking an sq system.
It's not just dropping money andbuying great components.

(01:13:58):
It's like, yeah, that goes along way.
I'm not going to lie.
You know what I mean.
If you have the money to buygood speakers, you have the
money to drop on a properinstall and whatnot.
Well, that's just, you're aboutthree quarters of the way.
That's why some of these guysare just constantly tinkering
because, yeah, they got up to90%, but they're trying to get

(01:14:19):
to 91, 92, 95, 97.
And it's like, the higher yougo we use that as a, as a, you
know we talk about thatpercentage the higher you go to.
To go from 94% to 97%.
That's a lot of work and a lotof blood, sweat and tears into

(01:14:39):
getting your car.
What I say dialed in you know.
So just a warning out there, itcan get expensive.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
No, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
But one of the nice things about going to these
events is that you can actuallysave money by doing your
research first, instead ofdropping components in there and
dropping things in there andthinking, hey, this is going to
sound great in my car.
These get togethers are perfectfor that.
These competitions are perfectfor you to get out there, listen

(01:15:12):
to the cars, participate, askquestions, listen.
There's nothing, nothing morethat these guys at the get
togethers or the competitionslove to do than to show off
their car to you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Okay, that's right, that's their baby.
They're happy to show it to you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
They're.
They're happy to to demo it,you know so.
So don't be afraid to come upto you.
Yeah, they're happy to demo it,you know.
So.
Don't be afraid to come up tous and say hey man, can I listen
to your car?

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Don't be afraid.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
I know in this hobby it's a lot of introverts and you
know.
But don't be afraid, we're morethan happy to show off our cars
, Like that's one of the thingsthat we want to do is like, yeah
, hop in the driver's side,You're in for a wild ride.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
That's it.
I mean, look, we're all prettyproud of it, right?
Like I love giving demos, likeit's fun, like I want you to
experience what I work so hardon and what I think is like a
sound signature that I enjoy, soI definitely want to share that
with folks, and if it helpsinspire you or helps you on your

(01:16:19):
journey to where you're tryingto go within your own vehicle,
then all the better.
And I know I am not alone inthat, we're all in that.
I mean SVR.
You're talking some of the toppeople in the nation who are
winning awards left and rightand have, like, national
recognition.
They are always more than readyto give anyone and everyone a

(01:16:43):
demo, whether it's a spectatorwalking in from the street or
somebody competing against themin their class.
It's like sure, hop in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I mean it's pretty amazing.
I mean mean, but that's alsothe same group of folks and I've
seen it where again you gotsomebody in your class who has a
tweeter blow and they're goingto be judged, like in a few
hours, the people in that classwill donate tweeters to help
them install it.
Like they'll tune it, likeeveryone's got everybody's back.
I mean really.
I mean I'm sure there'sexceptions, because there is

(01:17:14):
everywhere, but true man, likethe majority of what I've seen
is people are doing this for thelove of sound and they will
help you in any, any way thatthey can yeah, it's a big group
of like-minded people andeverybody comes from all kinds
of walks of life, but these guyswill literally give you their

(01:17:36):
shirt off their backs.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
I've seen guys where they help guys with you know tow
their car.
I've seen guys help with withtuning.
I had a guy who I was competingagainst and he helped.
He was tuning some of thelittle, you know little tweaks
in my car and I was in his classso you know, this isn't, this

(01:17:58):
isn't like you know, these guysare your mortal enemies just
because you're competing against.
No, no, it's all for fun andit's all for the love of music
and the love of great sound yeah, no, should have said it better
that that's exactly it Allright, mike, I think we're going
to wrap it up.
We got a good hour and 20minutes on this, from the looks

(01:18:18):
of it, the sounds of it.
We could probably go on forhours, because we're so
passionate with this hobby.
But everybody give a big thanksto Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Thank you, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
All right, thanks, mike, and we're going to let it
go right there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Sounds good.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
That's all folks.