January 14, 2025 • 17 mins
In this episode, we share 10+ go-to-market strategies from experienced founders we’ve spoken to on The Startup Leap who have collectively raised over $1bn+ in venture funding.
Bring out your note apps and notepads for this one, it's filled with time-tested startup launch wisdom.
Learn how to build a solid and PROVEN GTM strategy that drives customer acquisition, revenue growth, and product-market fit, helping you from idea to launch from founders who have been there and done that.
Whether you're launching a B2B SaaS product, a marketplace, or a consumer tech app, these proven strategies from successful founders will help you get there faster.
Chapters
- 00:50 Deep Dive: Go to Market Strategies
- 01:11 Understanding Your Customers
- 02:31 Different Business Models
- 03:10 Building and Validating Your Product
- 05:06 Importance of Customer Feedback
- 14:57 B2B Business Models and Sales Cycles
- 16:17 Final Thoughts and Recommendations
Episodes Referenced:
- Seyi’s Episode (Gravity Sketch): https://youtu.be/TgpHw-BW68s?si=LbnFbtvVFg8QiLQa
- Louise’s Episode (GoHenry): https://youtu.be/gpTt9trU2Vo?si=YPU2CRCKi7O7dibH
- Jas’s Episode (Luna): https://youtu.be/FBedSfDxmS0?si=MN0T8GiYT3friRSK
- Tunde’s Episode (Vendease):https://youtu.be/8Vf4Fvb-uJA?si=MgkWTLzCBmeIBhmi
- Elizabeth’s Episode (Aza Finance):https://youtu.be/riGIeRcootU?si=TiWdAmncjszl_xnz
- Raffi’s Episode (Passionfruit):https://youtu.be/boCHZj8kQOE?si=vRrToVCao8ESgWJJ
- Ed’s Episode (Stash):https://youtu.be/fke5EZz0e7g?si=vFuXYSBLLEyfVMpO
- Michelle’s Episode (Peanut): https://youtu.be/lQ4i3FU8Czw?si=QuTZYDwvfBnwWhYE
#thestartupleap #gotomarket #business #technology #yvonnebajela #mariarotilu
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
As an early stage startup, you are likelier to die than to survive.
(00:03):
Founders want to optimize for that big launch date.
You don't have resources.
Prove with a microscopic version that in principle it works.
The photo market comes down to three things.
It's who are your customers?
What pain points are you trying to solve?
Don't project your excitement on the product.
Go and get evidence that people will use it.
You have the bigger vision.
(00:23):
Find in that real narrow niche.
Welcome to The Startup Leap,
the number one podcast interview and startup founders
who have taken the leap.
On The Startup Leap, we hear real, raw and relatable stories
of how they've navigated taking the leap.
We're your hosts.
I'm Yvonne.
And I'm Maria.
And this is The Startup Leap podcast.
(00:44):
Any statements made by Maria, Yvonne or the Startup Leap guests
are solely their view and are not advice.
So we've done one of these deep dives, the first one on team,
and this one is on Go To Market.
For those who haven't had the chance to look at the team
episode to check that, what we do with this episode
is pretty much just deep dive into the particular theme.
And this one will be on Go To Market.
(01:04):
So I have thoughts because I love Go To Market.
I know you do.
When I think about Go To Market, it comes down to three things.
Who are your customers?
What pain points are you really trying to solve?
And then what are your channels?
Go To Market touches every single aspect of your business.
Your sales strategy to product engineering
and hearing about it from all the guests that we've had.
(01:26):
We've had it from different perspectives,
from different sectors as well.
One of the things that is super interesting in this space
is some of the resources that are out there,
like the mum test, for example.
And at the end of the day, it comes back
to spending time with customers.
Go To Market is where you bring your idea
to the pressure of reality and reality tests it.
(01:46):
You realize and decide how you will
iterate experimental finding what the market wants.
Because at the earliest stages, there are three risks, right?
Like either that you're building something people don't want
and you've built it and you're projecting on the customer
they don't want.
Or you're building something that people will not pay for.
They will use it, but there's no way to monetize it.
Or you're building something that people will pay for,
(02:07):
but they just won't pay enough for you
to be able to build a massive business.
You will find out in Go To Market if that's true or not.
Go To Market is the place where the shit gets real.
And we decide whether or not this is something
that actually works.
It's the part that is so unsexy.
It is the part where you have to get your hands dirty.
You'll never see that money in the bank.
Literally.
And you will never get that product or service
(02:29):
into the world in a way that actually fits.
Another thing about our episodes is
the fact that people have different business models.
Yes.
And Go To Market for different business models can differ.
If you're a consumer company, it's different.
One example of the episode we did on Bendy's, right?
We talk about the software.
Sometimes you are the software.
Especially at the earliest stages.
Exactly.
People say, look, we had to be the back end.
(02:49):
We're just on the Excel sheet.
And the customer was like, oh, that worked.
Perfect example.
He shared how they were using Excel spreadsheets.
They were doing everything manually
before they even built a line of code.
Remember, they actually built a whole product
before they rolled out.
And then he realized that he had built something
that the market didn't want.
Sometimes just be really scrappy.
(03:11):
Just figure out what is it that you can deliver to customers
that you don't have to go out and build this full blown
product because we've seen it a lot.
Yeah.
People just overthink.
Companies go, spend a lot of money on products,
and then realize, actually, our customers don't want this.
It doesn't work for them.
I'm a strong believer of delaying building a product
as much as possible.
Even as an investor, there's this common saying of,
(03:32):
second time founders think of distribution
and first time founders think of product.
Because there's the danger of romanticizing the product.
The extent to which your product is valuable
is to the extent that customers use it.
You can create a very scrappy product
that customers will use.
And a product doesn't even have to be a product
in the traditional sense of the word.
It's a set of processes that are automated
that gets stuff done.
On Vendee's, with not obsessing over the product
(03:55):
and anchoring on distribution, I would even
say best case scenarios that you co-design with the customer.
Exactly.
Another example in being the software in the early days
is Robin.ai.
And I think a slightly different nuance there
in that they were building AI models right.
Sometimes in those early stages, there
is going to be a lot of hallucination and noise.
You need to actually go in and have a human in the loop
(04:17):
to ensure that the output is correct.
Before you actually go out and build this fully automated
product.
And there are lots of AI tools out there now
found as a leveraging AI.
When I think about Robin's episode on the go-to-market
piece, two things I find interesting.
Richard didn't have a technical co-founder.
So he had to go find a technical co-founder.
(04:38):
After he found the technical co-founder,
he actually didn't build a product.
He literally went to lawyers and said,
we are building this product.
This is something you would use.
And they said, yes.
And then he co-built with them.
That is marketing before you have a product.
Yep.
And not marketing in the sense of building public.
Yeah.
That's not what we're saying.
Yeah.
The fact that you're going out, speaking
(04:59):
to these individuals who are the customers that would potentially
use your product, understanding what is it that they need,
and building with them.
And working with evidence.
Like don't project your excitement
on what you think people would do to the product.
Go out and actually get evidence that people will use it.
Will people use this thing?
(05:19):
And I think on this point as well,
people say different things to what they mean sometimes.
So oftentimes when I see really comprehensive surveys
as a way of market validation, I'm like, no.
Because customers don't always say what they mean.
They also don't always know what they want enough for them
to be able to communicate it to you.
That's why the mum test is definitely
(05:40):
one of the books I would definitely recommend in this space.
Because it comes down to getting the truth from customers.
Sometimes I will tell you as a customer what I think I want.
Oh, I love it.
But really, will I use it?
Maybe not.
And just look at their actions.
I feel like a very good must test is look at what they do,
not just what they say.
Oh, it's going to be incredible.
Would you use it?
Of course.
(06:00):
OK, here is the beta test for you to download.
Would you give us feedback?
Or would you pay for it?
How much would you pay for it?
Especially being an early stage startup that
is limited in funding, that is limited in time.
My thesis is that with go-to-market,
as an early stage startup, you are
likelier to die than to survive.
So you are statistically dead.
(06:21):
Knowing that, you need to I-treat very quickly
to a market pulse, to something in the market that
captures a customer's intent to continuously use and buy.
That's harder to do than people think.
Because there are many startups who have great customer pull
and still eventually die.
Because it's not just about, will customers use it?
(06:44):
You are building a business ultimately.
If we think back to Sabrina's episode,
she shared the importance of having
her customers pay from early.
I think this is a mistake that a lot of companies make.
They're like, we just want to get it over the line.
You know that if we don't charge,
they'll be able to sign up quickly.
But actually, then when it comes to the point of paying,
it becomes a real issue.
I would say there's a balance there, though.
(07:05):
You definitely don't want to create artificial barriers that
stop them from doing pilots.
But you definitely want to start framing those commercialization
conversations early on.
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(07:27):
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Now back to the episode.
There's ways in which you can do it.
You could, for example, say you get to use our products
for premium for the next two months.
If you find it valuable in two months,
(07:47):
this is what prices are going to look like.
And we can continue to discuss this
until you get to that point in time.
But I think you do need to have the conversation up front,
because in doing that, you also show the value
that your products bring into them.
The other thing, more from a consumer product perspective,
Ed, who was the founder of Stash,
had built a wealth management app in the US, Unicorn.
(08:07):
He talked about the fact that they were a regulated product.
As a wealth management company, they had to partner
with brokers early on.
So how can you very quickly and cheaply validate the thesis
that people will use what you're building?
I think there's an element of speed statistically dead.
So you have to do it quickly and also cheaply.
How can I quickly and cheaply validate them?
(08:29):
Partnering with brokers as opposed
to getting their license directly
would make it faster for them to get to market.
The other thing that I thought was interesting
was he said something about he went to a Starbucks queue
and he just took, I think it was five or $10.
He was like, if you use the app,
I'll give you this, like the money.
That's like literally customer acquisition costs in cash.
(08:49):
People did many things that didn't scale.
For example, Michelle of Peanut
literally went on like parent boards.
And the raised stickers as well.
Exactly, like people did crazy things at the beginning.
One was where we had the Bitcoins in the church.
Yes, Elizabeth's episode of As I Find Out,
she got a Bitcoin ATM in a church.
(09:12):
Are those words you would have put together in any way?
A Bitcoin ATM in a church.
The part of that doing things that don't scale,
that people don't talk about,
is the fact that you need to do things that don't scale
to figure out how to productize them
in a way that scales.
Another one that comes to mind is Rafi's episode.
Because obviously as a marketplace,
you really require that heroic effort
(09:33):
to build both sides of the marketplace.
His perspective of going narrow initially,
of just focusing on marketing as an area
to really build out both sides of that marketplace.
And we see it across a lot of startups, right?
So if you think about going narrow,
even if you think back to the case of Airbnb,
initially they were just-
You have to find a clean wedge into the market.
(09:54):
Initially they were just like in New York,
going door to door, helping people do their listings.
Again, coming back to your point around doing things
that don't scale.
So many examples of companies that have done that
in initial phase, like you have the bigger vision
of who you want this to address,
but just finding that real narrow niche initially is so-
I think some founders are afraid of the fact
that it might minimize the vision.
(10:15):
It doesn't, you don't have time, you don't have resources.
You need to prove with a microscopic version
of your vision that in principle it works.
Then it makes it less harder to draw a line
back to the eventual vision.
I really think that wedge point is one to labor
because many times even as investors,
(10:36):
we see founders who are taking very spread out approaches
to the market that is going to overwhelm
in a way that you might not even get the insights
on your initial pilot.
More broadly speaking, most of our guests knew their ICP
and the USP and they communicated it clearly.
Tim mentioned a lot about understanding the customers
and figuring out what they want.
(10:56):
Ed really was just keep it simple.
I think he said invest in as little as $5.
I remember that statement.
And it being simple is hard.
People think because it's simple, it's easy.
It's actually very hard because you need to refine, refine
in a way that when you're talking to your ICP,
they get you.
And it resonates immediately.
And it resonates immediately
because there's gonna be a lot of noise.
(11:16):
So that narrow positioning really helps the messaging,
really helps the clarity and a bit more technical pointers.
You definitely want your ICP to be scalable
because I see this with founders where you've targeted
an ICP that doesn't scale.
And you've gotten insights,
but you can't transfer those insights to adjacent markets
because remember you're doing things that don't scale
so that you can actually productize them and scale them.
(11:37):
But you need to have the open mind
of not thinking about scale initially
so that you don't dilute the insights.
I think another one that comes to mind is episode
that we did with Jasmine on Luna.
Yeah.
And effectively she was creating a category.
Yeah, Teen Tech.
For her like figuring out what works,
how to reach the end customer
because she's got parents that are paying for the app
(11:58):
and then the teenagers who are using it.
And I just thought so-
That's a good point where the user is not the buyer.
Where we had the Go Henry episode with Louise
and how she had to go into schools and speak to parents
at the end of the school day.
But then coming back to Luna just around how the fact that
she had to really test and figure out
what channels is gonna prove to be most effective.
(12:19):
And for her like TikTok proved to be super valuable.
It's also a lesson in the fact that you do have to
try test different methods.
Try.
And experiment. Out to market.
Figuring out what works
and not being afraid to try different things.
And also to kill what's not working.
Because oftentimes I think a lot of founders can be pressed
or set on a particular way
(12:40):
which they think it should go to market.
And sometimes it takes too long before they realize,
actually this is not working, let's do something else.
I'm remembering Sae's episode because he said,
if this one thing that I do well is that I kill things
when it's not working, that is such a skill.
It's a superpower. Because you're so attached
to your idea, be flexible.
You have to be flexible.
Again, spending time with customers.
(13:00):
Understanding what's resonating with them and what's not.
The beauty of spending time with customers
in those early days is you get feedback so quickly.
As the company grows in skills, you're no longer
gonna be able to spend time with those five customers
and really just spend one-on-one time with them
and understand what they love.
In those early days, you should really be optimizing
for the five, the 10 customers that love your product
(13:22):
versus their thousands.
You just get that feedback and iterate.
The episode from Max, where he was chatting with his co-founder
and they had scale to a point and he was like,
move fast and break things.
I was like, wait.
We're already, we're getting quite large
to be breaking things anyhow.
If we break things, our customers will not add on.
To your point, in that early stage
is when you can afford it.
(13:42):
So make all the mistakes and move quickly
and rapidly iterate and don't be afraid to hear,
it's not working.
Then maybe that's a start to, this is what will work for us.
The key thing we can take from the go-to-market segments
of all the episodes that we've done today is
in the early days, it does require extraordinary effort
to apply those initial users and it's fragile.
(14:03):
Yeah, and you would do silly things.
You should be doing silly things that don't scale.
You should be rapidly experimenting.
You should be trying things
and you should be willing to kill them
if they are not working.
Just move on.
Don't be that person that just spends so much time
building the product and then you bring it to the customer
and the customer's like, I don't resonate with this.
I don't, this doesn't solve my problem.
(14:23):
Another thing that I just wanna highlight is the big launch.
Oftentimes, a lot of founders do wanna optimize
for that big launch date, but honestly speaking,
it should really be seen as a journey.
And everything that comes up to that launch point
should really be about, again, spending time with customers
before you even get to that launch date.
(14:45):
It's almost seen as like this flag post of,
I'm gonna build and then we'll launch it
and then everybody uses it.
It's like build it and they will come.
Like you would go find them, then you will build it
because that's been turned over its head.
I also wanted us to talk about B2B business models
because I think the go-to-market sales cycles
for B2B business models is a huge one.
Sabrina talked a little bit about this, even Cheyi as well,
(15:07):
because for B2B software companies,
oftentimes you will need to speak with people
who will take you through a procurement process.
It's not fun and it takes a long time.
And as a startup that doesn't have time,
how do you get ahead of that?
You should definitely check out episodes
that dive deep into this because guests give
some really good actionable feedback
(15:29):
to cutting those sales cycles low
because that's actually one of the reasons VCs say no.
Like it's one of the popular reasons.
If the sales cycle is too long, it's just not scalable
because if you're gonna do this 1,000 times,
10,000 times a year and it takes you six or seven
or eight months to try to onboard a customer,
that just doesn't work.
Yeah, I think that was an interesting one.
(15:49):
The other one, don't obsess with your logo or your name
or all of those stuff because we ask each and every person
like, how did you come about your name?
Most people have just been like,
especially the second time founders, did you notice?
They will just be like, we just decide.
It's an afterthought, honestly.
Let's just figure out something that works
and if it doesn't work, we'll change it,
(16:10):
but in the meantime, let's just get it out
because then you find people who like obsess
over like everything.
It's really just about focusing
on those things of value, right?
Yeah, especially on regulated markets.
One comes to mind, Luis's episode with GoHenry,
which is a platform for kids to manage their finances.
So parents manage that, so a debit card essentially
and it also provides like financial education for children.
(16:33):
She did mention something about regulation
and she was like, if you're building a regulated product,
if they tell you, oh no, we can't do that in the regulations,
you go ask them where?
Point it out to me exactly where.
That's a really good point.
It's such a good point because most times we're like,
oh, it's in the regulation.
Where?
Exactly, and they couldn't tell her.
And they couldn't tell her.
And the truth is, if you're building an innovative product,
(16:55):
you're probably ahead of regulation.
Exactly, and sometimes you have to work with the regulators.
Exactly.
Perfect example was with Vendee's.
Yes.
Like when, you know, he spoke about how he partnered
with the regulators and took them on that journey
of why does this product need, how can we have regulation?
Makes it work for both parties, right?
Exactly.
And just being very intentional about partnering
(17:17):
with them in the very early stages.
In those stages, I love it.
Not trying to avoid it.
I think that's probably the worst thing you can do.
Yeah, try to avoid it.
Because it will catch up with you later.
Yeah, it will.
And you're actually in such a great position
to shape it anyway as a pioneer.
And we've seen a lot of our guests do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you haven't, you should definitely
go check out the episodes.
(17:37):
There are gems on gems, many we didn't even
have the chance to touch on.
So yeah, we'll see you next time.
Leave a review, tell us what you think of this episode
on all of our platforms at the Startup Leap pod.
Do you have a question?
Ask us and we'll ask our guests.
Go to thestartupleap.io and see you next time.
Look for us at the�heavydirt.com
(18:20):
Have a great week.
As an early stage startup, you are likelier to die than to survive.
(00:03):
Founders want to optimize for that big launch date.
You don't have resources.
Prove with a microscopic version that in principle it works.
The photo market comes down to three things.
It's who are your customers?
What pain points are you trying to solve?
Don't project your excitement on the product.
Go and get evidence that people will use it.
You have the bigger vision.
(00:23):
Find in that real narrow niche.
Welcome to The Startup Leap,
the number one podcast interview and startup founders
who have taken the leap.
On The Startup Leap, we hear real, raw and relatable stories
of how they've navigated taking the leap.
We're your hosts.
I'm Yvonne.
And I'm Maria.
And this is The Startup Leap podcast.
(00:44):
Any statements made by Maria, Yvonne or the Startup Leap guests
are solely their view and are not advice.
So we've done one of these deep dives, the first one on team,
and this one is on Go To Market.
For those who haven't had the chance to look at the team
episode to check that, what we do with this episode
is pretty much just deep dive into the particular theme.
And this one will be on Go To Market.
(01:04):
So I have thoughts because I love Go To Market.
I know you do.
When I think about Go To Market, it comes down to three things.
Who are your customers?
What pain points are you really trying to solve?
And then what are your channels?
Go To Market touches every single aspect of your business.
Your sales strategy to product engineering
and hearing about it from all the guests that we've had.
(01:26):
We've had it from different perspectives,
from different sectors as well.
One of the things that is super interesting in this space
is some of the resources that are out there,
like the mum test, for example.
And at the end of the day, it comes back
to spending time with customers.
Go To Market is where you bring your idea
to the pressure of reality and reality tests it.
(01:46):
You realize and decide how you will
iterate experimental finding what the market wants.
Because at the earliest stages, there are three risks, right?
Like either that you're building something people don't want
and you've built it and you're projecting on the customer
they don't want.
Or you're building something that people will not pay for.
They will use it, but there's no way to monetize it.
Or you're building something that people will pay for,
(02:07):
but they just won't pay enough for you
to be able to build a massive business.
You will find out in Go To Market if that's true or not.
Go To Market is the place where the shit gets real.
And we decide whether or not this is something
that actually works.
It's the part that is so unsexy.
It is the part where you have to get your hands dirty.
You'll never see that money in the bank.
Literally.
And you will never get that product or service
(02:29):
into the world in a way that actually fits.
Another thing about our episodes is
the fact that people have different business models.
Yes.
And Go To Market for different business models can differ.
If you're a consumer company, it's different.
One example of the episode we did on Bendy's, right?
We talk about the software.
Sometimes you are the software.
Especially at the earliest stages.
Exactly.
People say, look, we had to be the back end.
(02:49):
We're just on the Excel sheet.
And the customer was like, oh, that worked.
Perfect example.
He shared how they were using Excel spreadsheets.
They were doing everything manually
before they even built a line of code.
Remember, they actually built a whole product
before they rolled out.
And then he realized that he had built something
that the market didn't want.
Sometimes just be really scrappy.
(03:11):
Just figure out what is it that you can deliver to customers
that you don't have to go out and build this full blown
product because we've seen it a lot.
Yeah.
People just overthink.
Companies go, spend a lot of money on products,
and then realize, actually, our customers don't want this.
It doesn't work for them.
I'm a strong believer of delaying building a product
as much as possible.
Even as an investor, there's this common saying of,
(03:32):
second time founders think of distribution
and first time founders think of product.
Because there's the danger of romanticizing the product.
The extent to which your product is valuable
is to the extent that customers use it.
You can create a very scrappy product
that customers will use.
And a product doesn't even have to be a product
in the traditional sense of the word.
It's a set of processes that are automated
that gets stuff done.
On Vendee's, with not obsessing over the product
(03:55):
and anchoring on distribution, I would even
say best case scenarios that you co-design with the customer.
Exactly.
Another example in being the software in the early days
is Robin.ai.
And I think a slightly different nuance there
in that they were building AI models right.
Sometimes in those early stages, there
is going to be a lot of hallucination and noise.
You need to actually go in and have a human in the loop
(04:17):
to ensure that the output is correct.
Before you actually go out and build this fully automated
product.
And there are lots of AI tools out there now
found as a leveraging AI.
When I think about Robin's episode on the go-to-market
piece, two things I find interesting.
Richard didn't have a technical co-founder.
So he had to go find a technical co-founder.
(04:38):
After he found the technical co-founder,
he actually didn't build a product.
He literally went to lawyers and said,
we are building this product.
This is something you would use.
And they said, yes.
And then he co-built with them.
That is marketing before you have a product.
Yep.
And not marketing in the sense of building public.
Yeah.
That's not what we're saying.
Yeah.
The fact that you're going out, speaking
(04:59):
to these individuals who are the customers that would potentially
use your product, understanding what is it that they need,
and building with them.
And working with evidence.
Like don't project your excitement
on what you think people would do to the product.
Go out and actually get evidence that people will use it.
Will people use this thing?
(05:19):
And I think on this point as well,
people say different things to what they mean sometimes.
So oftentimes when I see really comprehensive surveys
as a way of market validation, I'm like, no.
Because customers don't always say what they mean.
They also don't always know what they want enough for them
to be able to communicate it to you.
That's why the mum test is definitely
(05:40):
one of the books I would definitely recommend in this space.
Because it comes down to getting the truth from customers.
Sometimes I will tell you as a customer what I think I want.
Oh, I love it.
But really, will I use it?
Maybe not.
And just look at their actions.
I feel like a very good must test is look at what they do,
not just what they say.
Oh, it's going to be incredible.
Would you use it?
Of course.
(06:00):
OK, here is the beta test for you to download.
Would you give us feedback?
Or would you pay for it?
How much would you pay for it?
Especially being an early stage startup that
is limited in funding, that is limited in time.
My thesis is that with go-to-market,
as an early stage startup, you are
likelier to die than to survive.
So you are statistically dead.
(06:21):
Knowing that, you need to I-treat very quickly
to a market pulse, to something in the market that
captures a customer's intent to continuously use and buy.
That's harder to do than people think.
Because there are many startups who have great customer pull
and still eventually die.
Because it's not just about, will customers use it?
(06:44):
You are building a business ultimately.
If we think back to Sabrina's episode,
she shared the importance of having
her customers pay from early.
I think this is a mistake that a lot of companies make.
They're like, we just want to get it over the line.
You know that if we don't charge,
they'll be able to sign up quickly.
But actually, then when it comes to the point of paying,
it becomes a real issue.
I would say there's a balance there, though.
(07:05):
You definitely don't want to create artificial barriers that
stop them from doing pilots.
But you definitely want to start framing those commercialization
conversations early on.
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(07:27):
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Now back to the episode.
There's ways in which you can do it.
You could, for example, say you get to use our products
for premium for the next two months.
If you find it valuable in two months,
(07:47):
this is what prices are going to look like.
And we can continue to discuss this
until you get to that point in time.
But I think you do need to have the conversation up front,
because in doing that, you also show the value
that your products bring into them.
The other thing, more from a consumer product perspective,
Ed, who was the founder of Stash,
had built a wealth management app in the US, Unicorn.
(08:07):
He talked about the fact that they were a regulated product.
As a wealth management company, they had to partner
with brokers early on.
So how can you very quickly and cheaply validate the thesis
that people will use what you're building?
I think there's an element of speed statistically dead.
So you have to do it quickly and also cheaply.
How can I quickly and cheaply validate them?
(08:29):
Partnering with brokers as opposed
to getting their license directly
would make it faster for them to get to market.
The other thing that I thought was interesting
was he said something about he went to a Starbucks queue
and he just took, I think it was five or $10.
He was like, if you use the app,
I'll give you this, like the money.
That's like literally customer acquisition costs in cash.
(08:49):
People did many things that didn't scale.
For example, Michelle of Peanut
literally went on like parent boards.
And the raised stickers as well.
Exactly, like people did crazy things at the beginning.
One was where we had the Bitcoins in the church.
Yes, Elizabeth's episode of As I Find Out,
she got a Bitcoin ATM in a church.
(09:12):
Are those words you would have put together in any way?
A Bitcoin ATM in a church.
The part of that doing things that don't scale,
that people don't talk about,
is the fact that you need to do things that don't scale
to figure out how to productize them
in a way that scales.
Another one that comes to mind is Rafi's episode.
Because obviously as a marketplace,
you really require that heroic effort
(09:33):
to build both sides of the marketplace.
His perspective of going narrow initially,
of just focusing on marketing as an area
to really build out both sides of that marketplace.
And we see it across a lot of startups, right?
So if you think about going narrow,
even if you think back to the case of Airbnb,
initially they were just-
You have to find a clean wedge into the market.
(09:54):
Initially they were just like in New York,
going door to door, helping people do their listings.
Again, coming back to your point around doing things
that don't scale.
So many examples of companies that have done that
in initial phase, like you have the bigger vision
of who you want this to address,
but just finding that real narrow niche initially is so-
I think some founders are afraid of the fact
that it might minimize the vision.
(10:15):
It doesn't, you don't have time, you don't have resources.
You need to prove with a microscopic version
of your vision that in principle it works.
Then it makes it less harder to draw a line
back to the eventual vision.
I really think that wedge point is one to labor
because many times even as investors,
(10:36):
we see founders who are taking very spread out approaches
to the market that is going to overwhelm
in a way that you might not even get the insights
on your initial pilot.
More broadly speaking, most of our guests knew their ICP
and the USP and they communicated it clearly.
Tim mentioned a lot about understanding the customers
and figuring out what they want.
(10:56):
Ed really was just keep it simple.
I think he said invest in as little as $5.
I remember that statement.
And it being simple is hard.
People think because it's simple, it's easy.
It's actually very hard because you need to refine, refine
in a way that when you're talking to your ICP,
they get you.
And it resonates immediately.
And it resonates immediately
because there's gonna be a lot of noise.
(11:16):
So that narrow positioning really helps the messaging,
really helps the clarity and a bit more technical pointers.
You definitely want your ICP to be scalable
because I see this with founders where you've targeted
an ICP that doesn't scale.
And you've gotten insights,
but you can't transfer those insights to adjacent markets
because remember you're doing things that don't scale
so that you can actually productize them and scale them.
(11:37):
But you need to have the open mind
of not thinking about scale initially
so that you don't dilute the insights.
I think another one that comes to mind is episode
that we did with Jasmine on Luna.
Yeah.
And effectively she was creating a category.
Yeah, Teen Tech.
For her like figuring out what works,
how to reach the end customer
because she's got parents that are paying for the app
(11:58):
and then the teenagers who are using it.
And I just thought so-
That's a good point where the user is not the buyer.
Where we had the Go Henry episode with Louise
and how she had to go into schools and speak to parents
at the end of the school day.
But then coming back to Luna just around how the fact that
she had to really test and figure out
what channels is gonna prove to be most effective.
(12:19):
And for her like TikTok proved to be super valuable.
It's also a lesson in the fact that you do have to
try test different methods.
Try.
And experiment. Out to market.
Figuring out what works
and not being afraid to try different things.
And also to kill what's not working.
Because oftentimes I think a lot of founders can be pressed
or set on a particular way
(12:40):
which they think it should go to market.
And sometimes it takes too long before they realize,
actually this is not working, let's do something else.
I'm remembering Sae's episode because he said,
if this one thing that I do well is that I kill things
when it's not working, that is such a skill.
It's a superpower. Because you're so attached
to your idea, be flexible.
You have to be flexible.
Again, spending time with customers.
(13:00):
Understanding what's resonating with them and what's not.
The beauty of spending time with customers
in those early days is you get feedback so quickly.
As the company grows in skills, you're no longer
gonna be able to spend time with those five customers
and really just spend one-on-one time with them
and understand what they love.
In those early days, you should really be optimizing
for the five, the 10 customers that love your product
(13:22):
versus their thousands.
You just get that feedback and iterate.
The episode from Max, where he was chatting with his co-founder
and they had scale to a point and he was like,
move fast and break things.
I was like, wait.
We're already, we're getting quite large
to be breaking things anyhow.
If we break things, our customers will not add on.
To your point, in that early stage
is when you can afford it.
(13:42):
So make all the mistakes and move quickly
and rapidly iterate and don't be afraid to hear,
it's not working.
Then maybe that's a start to, this is what will work for us.
The key thing we can take from the go-to-market segments
of all the episodes that we've done today is
in the early days, it does require extraordinary effort
to apply those initial users and it's fragile.
(14:03):
Yeah, and you would do silly things.
You should be doing silly things that don't scale.
You should be rapidly experimenting.
You should be trying things
and you should be willing to kill them
if they are not working.
Just move on.
Don't be that person that just spends so much time
building the product and then you bring it to the customer
and the customer's like, I don't resonate with this.
I don't, this doesn't solve my problem.
(14:23):
Another thing that I just wanna highlight is the big launch.
Oftentimes, a lot of founders do wanna optimize
for that big launch date, but honestly speaking,
it should really be seen as a journey.
And everything that comes up to that launch point
should really be about, again, spending time with customers
before you even get to that launch date.
(14:45):
It's almost seen as like this flag post of,
I'm gonna build and then we'll launch it
and then everybody uses it.
It's like build it and they will come.
Like you would go find them, then you will build it
because that's been turned over its head.
I also wanted us to talk about B2B business models
because I think the go-to-market sales cycles
for B2B business models is a huge one.
Sabrina talked a little bit about this, even Cheyi as well,
(15:07):
because for B2B software companies,
oftentimes you will need to speak with people
who will take you through a procurement process.
It's not fun and it takes a long time.
And as a startup that doesn't have time,
how do you get ahead of that?
You should definitely check out episodes
that dive deep into this because guests give
some really good actionable feedback
(15:29):
to cutting those sales cycles low
because that's actually one of the reasons VCs say no.
Like it's one of the popular reasons.
If the sales cycle is too long, it's just not scalable
because if you're gonna do this 1,000 times,
10,000 times a year and it takes you six or seven
or eight months to try to onboard a customer,
that just doesn't work.
Yeah, I think that was an interesting one.
(15:49):
The other one, don't obsess with your logo or your name
or all of those stuff because we ask each and every person
like, how did you come about your name?
Most people have just been like,
especially the second time founders, did you notice?
They will just be like, we just decide.
It's an afterthought, honestly.
Let's just figure out something that works
and if it doesn't work, we'll change it,
(16:10):
but in the meantime, let's just get it out
because then you find people who like obsess
over like everything.
It's really just about focusing
on those things of value, right?
Yeah, especially on regulated markets.
One comes to mind, Luis's episode with GoHenry,
which is a platform for kids to manage their finances.
So parents manage that, so a debit card essentially
and it also provides like financial education for children.
(16:33):
She did mention something about regulation
and she was like, if you're building a regulated product,
if they tell you, oh no, we can't do that in the regulations,
you go ask them where?
Point it out to me exactly where.
That's a really good point.
It's such a good point because most times we're like,
oh, it's in the regulation.
Where?
Exactly, and they couldn't tell her.
And they couldn't tell her.
And the truth is, if you're building an innovative product,
(16:55):
you're probably ahead of regulation.
Exactly, and sometimes you have to work with the regulators.
Exactly.
Perfect example was with Vendee's.
Yes.
Like when, you know, he spoke about how he partnered
with the regulators and took them on that journey
of why does this product need, how can we have regulation?
Makes it work for both parties, right?
Exactly.
And just being very intentional about partnering
(17:17):
with them in the very early stages.
In those stages, I love it.
Not trying to avoid it.
I think that's probably the worst thing you can do.
Yeah, try to avoid it.
Because it will catch up with you later.
Yeah, it will.
And you're actually in such a great position
to shape it anyway as a pioneer.
And we've seen a lot of our guests do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you haven't, you should definitely
go check out the episodes.
(17:37):
There are gems on gems, many we didn't even
have the chance to touch on.
So yeah, we'll see you next time.
Leave a review, tell us what you think of this episode
on all of our platforms at the Startup Leap pod.
Do you have a question?
Ask us and we'll ask our guests.
Go to thestartupleap.io and see you next time.
Look for us at the�heavydirt.com
(18:20):
Have a great week.
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