August 26, 2025 • 37 mins
Jurgen Bank is a consultant and coach with over 20 years experience. Originally trained in Germany, for a very long time in the USA, he has consulted with dozens of the Global Fortune 1000 companies, in the US, India, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, and all over Europe. He and I met over 15 years ago when we were colleagues at what became Korn Ferry. Always working with leaders, understanding their tasks and challenges, training, assessing and coaching them.
After Boston, Boulder, Minneapolis, St. Louis, New Haven and New York, he currently resides in Philadelphia with his wife Susan. He has raised two daughters to become strong independent and confident women.
He works with leaders and mid-size organizations setting them up for success, both as coach and Human Capital consultant.
Procrastination, a pervasive challenge among leaders, is the focal point of our discussion today. On today's episode, I engage in a dialogue with Jurgen Bank, a distinguished consultant and coach specializing in procrastination. We explore the underlying motivations that contribute to this behavior and consider strategies to mitigate its impact on professional efficacy. Jurgen elucidates the importance of self-exploration in understanding one's procrastination patterns and emphasizes the necessity of establishing personal boundaries to enhance productivity. Our conversation aims to equip listeners with actionable insights to transform their approach to procrastination and optimize their leadership capabilities.
This episode serves as an enlightening exploration of procrastination, a topic that resonates universally in the realm of professional development. Jurgen Bank, an expert in the field, navigates the intricacies of why individuals procrastinate, proposing that it is often not a simple matter of poor time management but rather a complex interplay of psychological factors. Throughout the discussion, Jurgen encourages listeners to engage in self-inquiry, identifying the emotional and cognitive barriers that contribute to their procrastination. The dialogue progresses to introduce practical strategies, including the establishment of boundaries and the importance of saying no to non-essential commitments, thereby safeguarding one's energy for more critical tasks. Additionally, the episode emphasizes the value of taking actionable steps towards change, such as scheduling dedicated time for significant projects and recognizing the importance of aligning one's work with intrinsic motivations. Ultimately, the episode provides a comprehensive framework for understanding and combatting procrastination, thereby empowering leaders to enhance their efficacy and performance.
Takeaways:
- Procrastination is a multifaceted issue that often stems from various underlying fears and motivations.
- Identifying the root causes of one's procrastination can empower individuals to implement effective strategies for improvement.
- Establishing clear boundaries and learning to say no are essential skills for maintaining personal and professional focus.
- Regularly scheduling time for important tasks can help mitigate the tendency to procrastinate, fostering a more productive workflow.
- Reflecting on past experiences of procrastination can reveal patterns and provide insights for future behavior modification.
- Engaging in self-dialogue regarding procrastination can facilitate greater awareness and personal accountability.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Start early when you start inthe morning, start with the thing
you that is most important andthat you kind of progress. And I
just. Don't give yourself anyexcuses. Create rituals around the
things that you want to domore and on a regular basis and reward
yourself.
Right. There's plenty ofinformation out there right to your
(00:27):
point. It's like we all seesomething on procrastination, probably
on a weekly or monthly basis.So it has to go beyond knowing what
to do. Hello and welcome tothe Step Up Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm Kent Knievel, yourhost. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
(00:49):
you're new to the show onwhatever device you're on, I encourage
you to like follow andsubscribe so you never miss a new
episode. And one last thing,as a leadership development consultant
and coach, I have a particularpassion for leaders who have been
newly promoted internally. Ifthat's you or a leader you support,
I encourage you to go to KentCoach Playbook to Download my free
(01:11):
90 day success blueprint. It's20 some odd pages of practical advice
for the internally promotedleader on hitting the ground, running
and stepping up your newleadership game at your new level.
Without further ado, one thingI wanted to talk about today is procrastination
and with me today is Jurgenbank, world class coach, procrastinator
(01:32):
consultant and coach. I'veknown Jurgen for about. We met 15
years ago at PDI and when wewere both working at PDI which was
then purchased by Korn Ferry.Jurgen's been a consultant and a
coach for a little over 20years. Started in Germany before
he came to the US and sobefore I end up telling all of his
story, turn it over to you.Jurgen, welcome. Really glad to have
(01:54):
you. Thank you for agreeing tobe on the show and would love to
hear hear your career story aswe get started.
How do you know that I'mqualified in procrastination? World
class procrastinator? It'strue, I do procrastinate as well.
I have been doing that. That'sone of the reasons why I thought
(02:17):
it might resonate with ouraudience. And I'm also working with
people who have beenprocrastinators or have been suffering
from their procrastination. Idon't think there's a fix to never
procrastinate, but you can getcomfortable and you can channel it.
So we'll talk more about thatI believe later on.
(02:39):
Yeah, yeah. So tell me, howdid you get started in consulting,
coaching. What led you intothis? How did you get to the other
side of the camera here today?
My focus was always on peopleand not having a boring job. That
led me. I mean, truly, it'slike my biggest fear was I end up
(03:01):
in a job where I'm bored withthe shit I have. Sorry. With the
stuff I have to do every day.And I thought that would be the worst.
So I decided psychology isprobably interesting and, like, there's
always people and people arealways different and quirky, and
so that's my way out.
(03:21):
And.
And on that trajectory, I gotinto leadership training. Was in
front of groups for years.Then we added the more qualified
psychometrics, how tounderstand people through questionnaires,
how to help people understandwhat they don't know, where they're
(03:42):
not good. Like, what we did atwhat then became Korn Ferry was simulate
leadership situations where wecould, as experts, not experts in
leadership for everything. Wewere not better leaders than these
people. They were prettydistinguished. But in that situation
where we put them in, theywould struggle and we would be comfortable
(04:04):
because we studied thatsituation for a while, we simulated
that situation, and then wecould give them the readout. Listening.
Somebody who's really strongin strategy would have done this
and this and this, and youkind of omitted that and you jumped
right into action, forexample. That would have been like
a very concrete feedback to asimulation exercise that we did back
(04:28):
then. In recent years, Ifocused on helping people on the
next step after the training,like, really bridging the gap between,
I know this is how it is andwhy am I not doing in the job every
day?
Right.
And coaching is. Is very. Isreally the tool where that translation
(04:54):
happens, where we discover,like, what's actually in between.
In between you understandingand you doing what you really want
to do.
Yeah. So I think when we met,you were doing a lot of assessment
design. So kind of bothstructurally from a. What are we
(05:14):
measuring? How are wemeasuring it? How does that all come
together to a final picture? Iknow you've done that at more than
just one consultancy. So whatdid you like best about that world
and how. What's been the sortof transition over? Because it seems
like you do a lot morecoaching now. So what's that evolution
(05:36):
been like for you?
So I was. Before I came topdi, Korn Ferry, I was with shl,
which is a global provider ofassessment and survey products. I
found most interesting. Sothey have this questionnaire, it's
called opq, OccupationalPersonality Questionnaire. And the
(05:59):
differences between differentnation. So the intercultural differences
of this. So we used the samesurvey, translated into all kinds
of languages and making surethe items are actually same. And
that kind of worked out. Butthen the norms were different. So
like the expression of I'minterested in sales is different
(06:23):
with the same same questionsin Italy versus Germany. And then
like the interculturalstereotypes sometimes apply and sometimes
it's surprising how things aredifferent. And in particular if you
go into Asia where there isvery different cultural impacts.
(06:48):
So my trajectory, like let'skeep my job not boring, was completely
satisfied. Even when we lookedinto statistics and very sophisticated
analytics, I also discoveredthe boundaries of those statistics
(07:10):
and the limits of what you cansay when you have a good survey result.
What do you mean by that? Tellme more.
I mean only because thecounselor or your leadership development
person now understands whatyour profile is. And that's true
(07:33):
for any kind of personalityinventory result that doesn't really
predict what you do inspecific situations and that doesn't
track how you change. So I dobelieve there is a change in behaviors.
And like in the personalityenvironment we say yeah, like every
(07:55):
two years you should like redoit. Then you don't see much difference
because the items are designedfor high reliability. So they kind
of very conservative.
Yeah.
And you don't see.
So I was the non psychologistin the room at PDI and Korn Ferry.
So I was, you know, trained asa practitioner under all of the psychologists
(08:19):
there. And what I like thatyou said, because it was true for
me in my experience was yeah,personality assessment might say
this about you. And then whenwe would do the simulations, it just
was always fascinating to meto see how people actually showed
up now. And that's still asimulation. Right. So is that even
(08:40):
actually how they show uptruly on the job? Probably pretty
close. But the number of timesthat I saw someone show up in a way
that the personality inventorywould have said, they, they would
have done the opposite. I justthought that was fascinating. I found
myself to not be a personalitypurist just through my own practice
(09:03):
because I think my own, my ownfeeling on that was adults, as they
grow and learn and have goalsin life, maybe start to make some
conscious choices about howthey're going to behave in order
to get to those, you know, theoutcome that they're really looking
for. So it's just interestingwhen you were talking about, you
(09:26):
know, personality and sims andas well as life changes. Right. So
I think what you're saying is,yeah, assessments, a personality
assessment shouldn't changeDramatically over time. But there
is a window where you probablyshould reassess or if there's like
for me, I'll give you just aquick example. I took the Hogan probably
(09:49):
three years apart, two orthree years apart. I took it as a
higher, you know, pre hireassessment. And then maybe a year
later or so I took it when Iwas training to be certified in it
and between there, someonevery close to me went through a case
cancer journey. Right. And itwas very close to home. It was, you
know, and I probably took theassessment in the middle of them,
(10:12):
going through varioussurgeries and chemotherapy and things
like that. And my results werea little different. Not wildly different,
but I had maybe threederailers the first time I took the
Hogan. And the one I noticedright away is I had like four or
five derailers when I took itthe second time. So I just would
be curious, as thepsychologist in the room, what are
(10:37):
your thoughts or reactions to that?
That is exactly what youexpect from a self report instrument.
I mean, how you describeyourself has to do with how you think
about yourself and that isvastly influenced by the moment you're
in when you take it. So it'slike it's not necessarily the weather
(10:57):
today, but if somebody closeto you goes through a life changing
experience that impacts youand it should impact you.
Yeah.
What I'm really interested inand like what our leadership development
in the end wants to achieve isa behavior change in the workplace.
(11:18):
So it's not really how youthink about yourself that's necessary
for change, but you can thinkabout yourself differently and report
yourself differently and stillact very similar because you don't
really know how to do it. Youjust want to think that you're different
now. So how others describeyou. And the executive coaching is
(11:39):
very often the situation. Likeothers say this person has like a
dark spot, something unknownin their self concept and they need
to fill that in. And thenhelping that person discover that
is a big task. The Hogan isblind to that because the Hogan only
(12:03):
sees what you say.
You are like, yeah, yeah,well. And even if it is to be an
assessment of likelyreputation, then to bridge from somebody
taking the assessment to sowhat do you want to do with this
and what do you want to workon from here? I find that's always
(12:25):
a slight challenge too isgetting someone to go from looking
at the wavy lines and colorsand the fun bar graphs of any assessment
to then saying, so what do youwant to do with this? Right. Because
it can be really easy forpeople to look at their assessment
results and say, well, Ishould work on the worst scores.
Right. And it's like, well,maybe, but what's happening? What's
(12:47):
happening for you on the job.
By the way, considering theHogan? So my derailer is mischievous.
Yeah, I don't doubt it.
And it's like, I'm sorry,that's not a derailer. That's my
strength. That's mysuperpower. I am creative, I am spontaneous.
(13:07):
I'm so crazy that I disrupt myown scripts all the time, which is
actually a strength. And ifyou take that out, I bore myself.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean,probably a strength. And 90% of the
time. Right. But does it getyou in trouble ever, right?
It does, yeah.
(13:27):
Yeah, yeah. So how. Tell me.Let's. Let's make the leap here to
procrastination. Right? Sotell me about what you've been doing
from a coaching perspective orthinking about or working on when
it comes to procrastination.
So what's the cure forprocrastination? Just to put it in
context, People who come to meand some of their aspects is procrastination,
(13:54):
where they want to get better.They know the Eisenhower matrix,
you know, like, do what'surgent and important. You do that
now and what's important, butit's not that urgent. You can wait.
I can wait till tomorrow ifit's not important, but you need
to make a decision. Like whatpressing you want to on your. On
(14:16):
your salad. It's not thatimportant. So somebody else can make
that decision, though. And myfavorite is if it's not important,
important and not urgent, youdon't need to do anything. Just like,
let it die. Like, should Iclose the window in the other room?
(14:36):
They don't know, care, don'tneed to make that decision. They
also know setting micro goals,I mean, that's all the stuff that
comes out of leadershipdevelopment. If this is too big for
you, make small commitments.Make a plan. Make a plan for the
day. Start early when youstart in the morning. Start with
(14:58):
the thing that is mostimportant and that you kind of progress
in it. Just don't giveyourself any excuses. Create rituals
around the things that youwant to do more and on a regular
basis and reward yourself fordoing so. They know all of that,
so they're not coming to me tohear my knowledge.
(15:22):
Right. There's plenty ofinformation out there. Right to your
point. It's like you. We allsee something on procrastination
probably on a weekly ormonthly basis. So it has to go beyond
knowing what to do.
That's right. So, Ken, I wantto do an experiment with you.
Okay. I'm game.
(15:44):
I want to, like, demonstratehow coaching works with you. And
we want to assume thatprocrastination is something you
would like to work on. Nowthat we haven't talked about that
beforehand. It's not scriptedor anything, but let's just assume
you want to work on yourprocrastination. And I also assume
(16:06):
that you know whatprocrastination is in your life.
Yeah.
Yeah. Can you recall asituation that's shareable on this
podcast where you were procrastinating?
Yeah. I would call it maybestrategic procrastination. So I can
(16:28):
think of right now I haveprobably given myself too much Runway
from a project planningperspective on building out a learning
module for a client. Right. I.I've known about needing to build
this learning module for sixmonths. It's not needed for even
(16:49):
another month. I probablycould have done it over the last
couple of weeks. You know,it's due to my client early next
week. Very doable. And I willprobably wait until the last minute
to. To do it just in time. Sois that worth it? Is that workable?
It works. Sounds veryworkable. It's like, I mean, okay,
(17:10):
we all can relate to this.It's like. Yeah, there's like a long
term thingy. It's not urgentyet. Eisenhower. Yeah, let's wait.
Yes, I'm waiting until it hitsthe urgent quadrant.
So it's a learning module thatyou want to design, and it's still
one month out. When do youthink you should do it?
(17:33):
I mean, I should have done itany day this week already. And come
Monday, it'll become urgentand I will be doing it on Monday,
even if that means I'm takingmy laptop to bed with me.
So you will do it?
I should do it this afternoonor I should do it tomorrow while
it's a little less urgent.
(17:54):
So you will do it on Monday.
Maybe, most likely, if I don'tmake time for it today or tomorrow.
Okay, so we're joking about ita little bit because it's kind of
real, but it's also a littlebit pretend. But it's.
No, this is real.
So is this a pattern that yousee in your life more than once?
(18:18):
Oh, yeah, definitely. I havethought this multiple times in my
life that, man, I get a lotdone when the heat's on. I don't
think I create the fires.Unless you would call this creating
a fire. I don't Know that Icreate the fires in order to fight,
to fight them. But a littlepressure prompting, I think at times
(18:39):
can bring out the best in me.
Okay, so kind of like it'slike to be in the hot room.
Maybe a little bit. If I hadto be really honest about it, maybe
a little bit.
And can you think of anydisadvantages of doing like this?
Yeah, it is a little stressfulsometimes. Sometimes that stress
(19:02):
can be fun and sometimes not.And if I were to think about the
times where I, I've neverregretted working ahead on things.
Right. If I work ahead onthings, then life can happen in between
and then it doesn't becomestressful when I waited until the
last minute. But then also thefurnace goes out that day too. Right.
(19:28):
Like, so it's. It. You know,I, I've ex. I have plenty of experience
working ahead and I know thatI enjoy that experience better. I
know that I, I sometimes enjoythe last minute, but I'm sure that
my, my general well being andenjoyment would be better if I just
consistently worked ahead.
Yeah. What other advantagescan you think of of like working
(19:52):
ahead a little bit?
Yeah. More time for review.Right. Some more time to refine and
make it better. I'm trying tothink in this case, what's, what's
the other advantage? I mean,it just would, it would invariably
in our line of work, thingscome up all the time. That's like,
oh, here's a juicy opportunityto sink my teeth into. Now I've got
(20:16):
to put that off for anotherday because I still have to get this
thing done. Or it's like it'sa call you can't take because you've
got to make time for thisthing. Or something you now can't
do because you still have tomake time for this thing.
Okay. So another disadvantageis you can't actually react to unpredicted
needs, other unpredictableneeds, because you're already on
(20:40):
the critical path for this one.
Yeah.
What have you tried to disruptthis pattern?
Creating project plans, whichI used to hate doing. Now as an independent
consultant, I love doing itbecause it gives me line of sight
to all the things that I'msupposed to be making time for. So
that works. Blocking out time.Now my podcast recording schedule
(21:04):
is getting in the way for the,probably the next month or so. But
I basically closed downMondays on my calendar and, you know,
this is going to be designday, you know, desk work day, and
that until I started, until Iopened up my calendar for podcast
recording on Mondays, I hadbeen doing a pretty Good job at minimally
holding the day and maybe 60%of the time utilizing the day as
(21:28):
intended.
All right.
Yeah.
So you've done something thatit doesn't really seem like a life
threatening or careerthreatening situation right now.
Still kind of toying with it.It's like maybe a little bit improvement,
but not too much. What wouldSuperkent do? Like in your ideal
(21:50):
version, what would be yourway of dealing with the long term
development of the learningmodel for this client versus all
the other things?
I mean, I probably should putit on my calendar like any other
meeting. Like the things thatget in the way, which is the things
on my calendar. Right. So thatwould probably. Super Kent would
(22:11):
probably get a bit morediligent about not just knowing and
having it on a to do list.Like roughly when is this due? And
that probably means I need towork on it next week. Super Kent
would probably put that on hiscalendar so that a meeting didn't
get put there. And then thattime was dedicated and happened,
which was sort of the intentof the Design Mondays. But I didn't
(22:34):
put anything other than thegiant block to keep things away on
Design Mondays.
There's actually already amicro action that we can actually.
I can ask you in the nextstep. Okay. Can you create that action
for yourself of the thingsthat you really want to do? So Monday,
9 to 11:30.
(22:56):
Yeah, I still haven't. Myoutlook is open still. Jurgen. Fine.
I'm putting it on my calendarfor tomorrow.
All right. So you do it forJurgen. Now. That's. That's. That's
usually not how coaching is effective.
Yeah, it's more like. That's areally good point. And I should probably
just put it on my calendar andget it done.
(23:18):
What else? Okay, fantastic.So. So this, this one is improved
if you.
But I. So you joke. But Idon't know that I would have put
that on my calendar without anintentional conversation with someone
that's making me stop andpause. So jokingly you said, I'm
(23:39):
putting this on the calendarfor Jurgen. But truly, I think the
magic here is the permissionfor me to pause and talk about the
issue. And that in and ofitself is prompting me to do something
about it.
And the next step is, how canyou do this on regular basis? How
can it become a habit? So onething of looking at it is like, what
were the hidden benefits ofnot doing it? So.
(24:04):
Oh yeah. So we. We've bothlived the life of like, planned out
days to the nth degree. So oneof the benefits is I Do it when I
feel like versus when someoneor something is telling me to do
it. So it allows me this easy,breezy life.
(24:24):
Okay, you don't really want tobe scheduled. Not by yourself, and
certainly not.
And yet if you looked at mycalendar, you would say that seems
to fly in the. Fly in the faceof what my calendar actually looks
like.
Yeah, but I take your laugh asa confirmation you don't like it.
(24:46):
Like, if you can avoid it, youcan avoid it. So how can you make
it more fun to scheduleyourself at not feeling scheduled?
I mean, I do. I do like when Iwork ahead, that is for sure. So
that is fun. But maybe I couldthink of some way to treat myself
right if I. If I work in thisway, maybe.
(25:08):
You can find something totreat you. That's an interesting
thought.
Yeah, Love it.
All right, maybe let's. Let'sstop this exploration. But that's
how coaching works. It's like,I don't know how to solve your problem.
I have no idea. I know exactlywhat you know. And sometimes I know
a little bit more because,like, somebody not Kent and has read
(25:32):
everything I read. But that isnot the source for. For the coaching.
But the coaching kind ofmirrors things back. I want you to
hear yourself say what youwant to do.
Right?
Aha.
Yeah.
From your mind into your mind.That sticks and that sticks better.
Yeah. Yeah. Love it. I thinkit's a really good. I don't know
(25:55):
how many times I'll democoaching on this podcast. I think
that was a fun opportunityprobably for others to see kind of
how coaching works, let alonethe topic of procrastination, which
I think everybody wrestleswith in some way, shape, or form.
So as we move into. Well, anyfinal words about procrastination
(26:16):
before we move into our finalsegment here?
Procrastination is like asimple term that applies to a million
of different things that liebeneath. And actually that's something
also for the audience, for theself improvement that is easier than
coaching because you can do ityourself. I mean, you can explore
(26:36):
yourself, and if it doesn'twork, go find a coach, but you can
explore yourself. Like whatactually lies beneath my procrastination.
So for. For you, one aspectwas, I don't want to be locked in
by my freaking outlookcalendar. Yes, there you go. There's
(26:56):
also procrastination out offear of failure. There is procrastination,
fear of judgment. I don't wantto be judged. Or procrastination,
fear of change. All kinds offears drive procrastination so it's
like there is. Yes. Scheduleyourself and put it on the calendar
(27:18):
and follow your calendar.That's how you do it. But in your
mind, you need to overcome thehurdle that's before that.
Yeah. Interestingly, I wouldsay a common theme for me in my life
on something that makes meprocrastinate is I can make a mountain
(27:38):
out of a molehill in my ownhead. Right. I can be like, oh, that's
going to be this giant thing.It's going to take me hours and hours
or days and days. And thenwhen I finally, like, take making
a PowerPoint deck, like,sometimes in my head, I'll make this
into like, gosh, this is goingto take me forever. And then I sit
down and I pound it out in 30minutes. Right. And. And that's translated
(28:00):
to other places of my life. Ibuilt a floating deck in my backyard
that in my head, I made it.This. This is going to take me months.
It took me one weekend after Ihad it planned out.
Yes. So actually there's twothings. One, thinking things through
in your head also, especiallywhen it comes to building decks.
(28:24):
Once you have a clear plan.
Yeah.
You can do it in the afternoonif you don't think it through for
a longer time. But you buildBS and you need to tear it down because,
like, change your ideas in theprocess. So it's like there's something
said about the maturity.
Yeah.
So it's nothing wrong withthinking things through. And there
(28:45):
are certain aspects in notdoing everything right away, but
if there are specific patternsthat really get in your way to do
it to the degree that you'reannoyed with it, face your fear.
Yeah. Love it. Well, so Ihopefully this thus far has been
(29:06):
interesting or helpful for ourprocrastinating listeners out there.
So as we transition into ourfinal section here of the podcast.
So I asked you to preparethree things, three things our listeners
could take away, take actionon in some way from today. So love
to hear about what those are.
Yeah. So number one was,identify what lies behind your procrastination
(29:30):
so that you can do. Apply allthe smartness from the leadership
training.
And is that just as simple asstopping and asking yourself, what
am I getting out of this? Howam I benefiting from procrastinating?
What other. How do yourecommend people get to the bottom
of that?
I'm sure people were thinkingabout their own procrastination as
I was asking you questions andpoking around and making you say
(29:53):
the things that help you kindof get a little bit clearer. About
your procrastination and it'sthat kind of dialogue, like probing
it into it. And if you don'thave a procrastination problem, it's
not a problem. And if youdon't get far enough and you're still
like a horrible procrastinatorand it gets into your career, into
your performance, find acoach, give me a call. Yeah, I'll
(30:16):
get to back get to how to getto that later. So number two, identify
what lies behind yourprocrastination. Very important.
Number two, give yourselfpermission to say no when you really
feel this is not right. Youneed to protect your energy and your
boundaries. Especially in, inthe corporate setting but also the,
(30:41):
the free spirits and in theentrepreneurial side. They just love
to say yes. Do you want tobiggie size that? Yes. And catch
up? Yes.
At like do you want to catchup tomorrow? Absolutely.
Saying no doesn't make youself. It can make you effective.
Find your focus, pursue yourfocus, protect your boundaries. And
(31:07):
like what I do with, withpeople who come to me with, with
that issue thing like, like Inever, I can't, I can't say no to
it. Yeah. Figure out what yourboundaries are, then protect them.
We can do an energy audit.Audit. Where does your energy flow?
Is that really where you. Solet's catch up tomorrow. Is that
(31:29):
like something where yourenergy. Kind of.
One thing that I keep comingto in different coaching conversations
is, well, let's not make a seachange. Let's just experiment with
it. Like can you say no onetime this week? Can you just try
it out once and see how it goes?
Exactly.
(31:49):
Cool. And our third thingtoday, follow your path.
Identify the demands thatothers put into you and be clear.
That's what they want. And theend of the day, you are the master
of your fate. Nobody candictate. Well, okay, if ICE tells
(32:12):
you you're going to Guatemala,you're going. But that's force. I'm
not talking about that. Butyou have permission to choose what
you want. When you go in therestaurant, don't think about what
other people want and otherpeople's criteria for you. And that's
(32:35):
liberating and it'sthreatening because all of a sudden
you're also responsible. Youcan't blame others anymore for your
choices because you do whatyou want. Many high achievers operate
on the these shoulds anddesires. My boss wants me to do that.
My teacher always wanted me todo that. I wanted to get straight
(32:59):
A. So I did exactly what theytold me. And these shoulds don't
get you to maturity and theydon't get you to happiness. So I
don't know what your shouldsare and what is you in this, but
every person for themselvescan start reconnecting to themselves
(33:21):
and then discover theirintrinsic motivation, what really
drives them and what theyreally enjoy and separate that from
the external validations andclues that they receive in their
lives.
Love it. I think what you saidthat is really true there is that
it's liberating. Right. Andhow much freer you can be and feel
(33:46):
and what does that open up foryou? Love it. Well, so how can people
get a hold of you if they wantto work on procrastination or needing
a leadership coach of any kind?
Well, I'm, I'm easy to find.So my name is Jurgen bank and I'm
on LinkedIn. So you justsearch for J, U, R, G, E, N, B A
(34:06):
N, K, the last name and youcan also send me an email without
any form. What I do is like a15 minute like figuring things out.
It's like where can we go fromhere? Is there something where we
want to go? And it's like 15minutes is enough to see okay, what
(34:30):
lies. Is there something thatunderneath your pro procrastination
that we can effectivelyaddress? And, and usually the issues
are slightly more complex andthe pain is harder than oh yeah,
I should have done it lastweek but I'll do it next week. So
I'm good. So on LinkedInthere's also this button, your story
(34:52):
matters, let's talk and thenyou can self schedule a short meeting
with me.
Nice.
And I really enjoy that andit's actually, it's one of the things
that fuel me. It's likethere's people who will come and
have questions about theirgrowth and if we can do it in 15
(35:13):
minutes, we do it in 15minutes or we see what other options
we see.
Nice. Awesome. Well, I'll makesure I include your website and LinkedIn
or an email address in theshow notes. So appreciate that. So
that brings us to the end ofour episode today. Thank you Jurgen.
So I would encourage all mylisteners to head on over to not
only check out Jurgen'sLinkedIn page, but come on over to
(35:35):
my website. I made it as easyas possible from the old mouthful
that my website used to be. Sogo to Kent Coach that'll bring you
to my website if you'reinterested in what should I do post
promotion? How do Ieffectively land my first quarter
on the job? I continue toencourage you or if you're supporting
a leader, to head on over toKent Co before you go on with the
(35:59):
rest of your day, I do askthat you take a minute to rate and
review this podcast.Preferably five stars. That helps
put this in front of more eyesand ears, depending on the platform
you're on. So Juergen, thankyou a lot for being on today. I really
appreciate it. I know I got alot out of it from my own procrastination
journey, but I'm sure ourlisteners will as well.
(36:21):
It was a pleasure.
Thank you so much. Well, thankyou to all the listeners. Appreciate
your time as well and catchyou in the next episode. Take it
easy. That brings us to theend of our episode. Thanks for listening.
I'd encourage you to head onover to my website, Kent Coach and
start a conversation with methere. Or check out my promotion
playbook at Kent CoachPlaybook. Before you go on with your
(36:43):
day, I ask that you pleasetake a moment to leave a rating and
a review wherever you listento podcasts. Five stars. That helps
put this podcast in front ofmore eyes and ears. Until next time,
take it easy.
Start early when you start inthe morning, start with the thing
you that is most important andthat you kind of progress. And I
just. Don't give yourself anyexcuses. Create rituals around the
things that you want to domore and on a regular basis and reward
yourself.
Right. There's plenty ofinformation out there right to your
(00:27):
point. It's like we all seesomething on procrastination, probably
on a weekly or monthly basis.So it has to go beyond knowing what
to do. Hello and welcome tothe Step Up Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm Kent Knievel, yourhost. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
(00:49):
you're new to the show onwhatever device you're on, I encourage
you to like follow andsubscribe so you never miss a new
episode. And one last thing,as a leadership development consultant
and coach, I have a particularpassion for leaders who have been
newly promoted internally. Ifthat's you or a leader you support,
I encourage you to go to KentCoach Playbook to Download my free
(01:11):
90 day success blueprint. It's20 some odd pages of practical advice
for the internally promotedleader on hitting the ground, running
and stepping up your newleadership game at your new level.
Without further ado, one thingI wanted to talk about today is procrastination
and with me today is Jurgenbank, world class coach, procrastinator
(01:32):
consultant and coach. I'veknown Jurgen for about. We met 15
years ago at PDI and when wewere both working at PDI which was
then purchased by Korn Ferry.Jurgen's been a consultant and a
coach for a little over 20years. Started in Germany before
he came to the US and sobefore I end up telling all of his
story, turn it over to you.Jurgen, welcome. Really glad to have
(01:54):
you. Thank you for agreeing tobe on the show and would love to
hear hear your career story aswe get started.
How do you know that I'mqualified in procrastination? World
class procrastinator? It'strue, I do procrastinate as well.
I have been doing that. That'sone of the reasons why I thought
(02:17):
it might resonate with ouraudience. And I'm also working with
people who have beenprocrastinators or have been suffering
from their procrastination. Idon't think there's a fix to never
procrastinate, but you can getcomfortable and you can channel it.
So we'll talk more about thatI believe later on.
(02:39):
Yeah, yeah. So tell me, howdid you get started in consulting,
coaching. What led you intothis? How did you get to the other
side of the camera here today?
My focus was always on peopleand not having a boring job. That
led me. I mean, truly, it'slike my biggest fear was I end up
(03:01):
in a job where I'm bored withthe shit I have. Sorry. With the
stuff I have to do every day.And I thought that would be the worst.
So I decided psychology isprobably interesting and, like, there's
always people and people arealways different and quirky, and
so that's my way out.
(03:21):
And.
And on that trajectory, I gotinto leadership training. Was in
front of groups for years.Then we added the more qualified
psychometrics, how tounderstand people through questionnaires,
how to help people understandwhat they don't know, where they're
(03:42):
not good. Like, what we did atwhat then became Korn Ferry was simulate
leadership situations where wecould, as experts, not experts in
leadership for everything. Wewere not better leaders than these
people. They were prettydistinguished. But in that situation
where we put them in, theywould struggle and we would be comfortable
(04:04):
because we studied thatsituation for a while, we simulated
that situation, and then wecould give them the readout. Listening.
Somebody who's really strongin strategy would have done this
and this and this, and youkind of omitted that and you jumped
right into action, forexample. That would have been like
a very concrete feedback to asimulation exercise that we did back
(04:28):
then. In recent years, Ifocused on helping people on the
next step after the training,like, really bridging the gap between,
I know this is how it is andwhy am I not doing in the job every
day?
Right.
And coaching is. Is very. Isreally the tool where that translation
(04:54):
happens, where we discover,like, what's actually in between.
In between you understandingand you doing what you really want
to do.
Yeah. So I think when we met,you were doing a lot of assessment
design. So kind of bothstructurally from a. What are we
(05:14):
measuring? How are wemeasuring it? How does that all come
together to a final picture? Iknow you've done that at more than
just one consultancy. So whatdid you like best about that world
and how. What's been the sortof transition over? Because it seems
like you do a lot morecoaching now. So what's that evolution
(05:36):
been like for you?
So I was. Before I came topdi, Korn Ferry, I was with shl,
which is a global provider ofassessment and survey products. I
found most interesting. Sothey have this questionnaire, it's
called opq, OccupationalPersonality Questionnaire. And the
(05:59):
differences between differentnation. So the intercultural differences
of this. So we used the samesurvey, translated into all kinds
of languages and making surethe items are actually same. And
that kind of worked out. Butthen the norms were different. So
like the expression of I'minterested in sales is different
(06:23):
with the same same questionsin Italy versus Germany. And then
like the interculturalstereotypes sometimes apply and sometimes
it's surprising how things aredifferent. And in particular if you
go into Asia where there isvery different cultural impacts.
(06:48):
So my trajectory, like let'skeep my job not boring, was completely
satisfied. Even when we lookedinto statistics and very sophisticated
analytics, I also discoveredthe boundaries of those statistics
(07:10):
and the limits of what you cansay when you have a good survey result.
What do you mean by that? Tellme more.
I mean only because thecounselor or your leadership development
person now understands whatyour profile is. And that's true
(07:33):
for any kind of personalityinventory result that doesn't really
predict what you do inspecific situations and that doesn't
track how you change. So I dobelieve there is a change in behaviors.
And like in the personalityenvironment we say yeah, like every
(07:55):
two years you should like redoit. Then you don't see much difference
because the items are designedfor high reliability. So they kind
of very conservative.
Yeah.
And you don't see.
So I was the non psychologistin the room at PDI and Korn Ferry.
So I was, you know, trained asa practitioner under all of the psychologists
(08:19):
there. And what I like thatyou said, because it was true for
me in my experience was yeah,personality assessment might say
this about you. And then whenwe would do the simulations, it just
was always fascinating to meto see how people actually showed
up now. And that's still asimulation. Right. So is that even
(08:40):
actually how they show uptruly on the job? Probably pretty
close. But the number of timesthat I saw someone show up in a way
that the personality inventorywould have said, they, they would
have done the opposite. I justthought that was fascinating. I found
myself to not be a personalitypurist just through my own practice
(09:03):
because I think my own, my ownfeeling on that was adults, as they
grow and learn and have goalsin life, maybe start to make some
conscious choices about howthey're going to behave in order
to get to those, you know, theoutcome that they're really looking
for. So it's just interestingwhen you were talking about, you
(09:26):
know, personality and sims andas well as life changes. Right. So
I think what you're saying is,yeah, assessments, a personality
assessment shouldn't changeDramatically over time. But there
is a window where you probablyshould reassess or if there's like
for me, I'll give you just aquick example. I took the Hogan probably
(09:49):
three years apart, two orthree years apart. I took it as a
higher, you know, pre hireassessment. And then maybe a year
later or so I took it when Iwas training to be certified in it
and between there, someonevery close to me went through a case
cancer journey. Right. And itwas very close to home. It was, you
know, and I probably took theassessment in the middle of them,
(10:12):
going through varioussurgeries and chemotherapy and things
like that. And my results werea little different. Not wildly different,
but I had maybe threederailers the first time I took the
Hogan. And the one I noticedright away is I had like four or
five derailers when I took itthe second time. So I just would
be curious, as thepsychologist in the room, what are
(10:37):
your thoughts or reactions to that?
That is exactly what youexpect from a self report instrument.
I mean, how you describeyourself has to do with how you think
about yourself and that isvastly influenced by the moment you're
in when you take it. So it'slike it's not necessarily the weather
(10:57):
today, but if somebody closeto you goes through a life changing
experience that impacts youand it should impact you.
Yeah.
What I'm really interested inand like what our leadership development
in the end wants to achieve isa behavior change in the workplace.
(11:18):
So it's not really how youthink about yourself that's necessary
for change, but you can thinkabout yourself differently and report
yourself differently and stillact very similar because you don't
really know how to do it. Youjust want to think that you're different
now. So how others describeyou. And the executive coaching is
(11:39):
very often the situation. Likeothers say this person has like a
dark spot, something unknownin their self concept and they need
to fill that in. And thenhelping that person discover that
is a big task. The Hogan isblind to that because the Hogan only
(12:03):
sees what you say.
You are like, yeah, yeah,well. And even if it is to be an
assessment of likelyreputation, then to bridge from somebody
taking the assessment to sowhat do you want to do with this
and what do you want to workon from here? I find that's always
(12:25):
a slight challenge too isgetting someone to go from looking
at the wavy lines and colorsand the fun bar graphs of any assessment
to then saying, so what do youwant to do with this? Right. Because
it can be really easy forpeople to look at their assessment
results and say, well, Ishould work on the worst scores.
Right. And it's like, well,maybe, but what's happening? What's
(12:47):
happening for you on the job.
By the way, considering theHogan? So my derailer is mischievous.
Yeah, I don't doubt it.
And it's like, I'm sorry,that's not a derailer. That's my
strength. That's mysuperpower. I am creative, I am spontaneous.
(13:07):
I'm so crazy that I disrupt myown scripts all the time, which is
actually a strength. And ifyou take that out, I bore myself.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean,probably a strength. And 90% of the
time. Right. But does it getyou in trouble ever, right?
It does, yeah.
(13:27):
Yeah, yeah. So how. Tell me.Let's. Let's make the leap here to
procrastination. Right? Sotell me about what you've been doing
from a coaching perspective orthinking about or working on when
it comes to procrastination.
So what's the cure forprocrastination? Just to put it in
context, People who come to meand some of their aspects is procrastination,
(13:54):
where they want to get better.They know the Eisenhower matrix,
you know, like, do what'surgent and important. You do that
now and what's important, butit's not that urgent. You can wait.
I can wait till tomorrow ifit's not important, but you need
to make a decision. Like whatpressing you want to on your. On
(14:16):
your salad. It's not thatimportant. So somebody else can make
that decision, though. And myfavorite is if it's not important,
important and not urgent, youdon't need to do anything. Just like,
let it die. Like, should Iclose the window in the other room?
(14:36):
They don't know, care, don'tneed to make that decision. They
also know setting micro goals,I mean, that's all the stuff that
comes out of leadershipdevelopment. If this is too big for
you, make small commitments.Make a plan. Make a plan for the
day. Start early when youstart in the morning. Start with
(14:58):
the thing that is mostimportant and that you kind of progress
in it. Just don't giveyourself any excuses. Create rituals
around the things that youwant to do more and on a regular
basis and reward yourself fordoing so. They know all of that,
so they're not coming to me tohear my knowledge.
(15:22):
Right. There's plenty ofinformation out there. Right to your
point. It's like you. We allsee something on procrastination
probably on a weekly ormonthly basis. So it has to go beyond
knowing what to do.
That's right. So, Ken, I wantto do an experiment with you.
Okay. I'm game.
(15:44):
I want to, like, demonstratehow coaching works with you. And
we want to assume thatprocrastination is something you
would like to work on. Nowthat we haven't talked about that
beforehand. It's not scriptedor anything, but let's just assume
you want to work on yourprocrastination. And I also assume
(16:06):
that you know whatprocrastination is in your life.
Yeah.
Yeah. Can you recall asituation that's shareable on this
podcast where you were procrastinating?
Yeah. I would call it maybestrategic procrastination. So I can
(16:28):
think of right now I haveprobably given myself too much Runway
from a project planningperspective on building out a learning
module for a client. Right. I.I've known about needing to build
this learning module for sixmonths. It's not needed for even
(16:49):
another month. I probablycould have done it over the last
couple of weeks. You know,it's due to my client early next
week. Very doable. And I willprobably wait until the last minute
to. To do it just in time. Sois that worth it? Is that workable?
It works. Sounds veryworkable. It's like, I mean, okay,
(17:10):
we all can relate to this.It's like. Yeah, there's like a long
term thingy. It's not urgentyet. Eisenhower. Yeah, let's wait.
Yes, I'm waiting until it hitsthe urgent quadrant.
So it's a learning module thatyou want to design, and it's still
one month out. When do youthink you should do it?
(17:33):
I mean, I should have done itany day this week already. And come
Monday, it'll become urgentand I will be doing it on Monday,
even if that means I'm takingmy laptop to bed with me.
So you will do it?
I should do it this afternoonor I should do it tomorrow while
it's a little less urgent.
(17:54):
So you will do it on Monday.
Maybe, most likely, if I don'tmake time for it today or tomorrow.
Okay, so we're joking about ita little bit because it's kind of
real, but it's also a littlebit pretend. But it's.
No, this is real.
So is this a pattern that yousee in your life more than once?
(18:18):
Oh, yeah, definitely. I havethought this multiple times in my
life that, man, I get a lotdone when the heat's on. I don't
think I create the fires.Unless you would call this creating
a fire. I don't Know that Icreate the fires in order to fight,
to fight them. But a littlepressure prompting, I think at times
(18:39):
can bring out the best in me.
Okay, so kind of like it'slike to be in the hot room.
Maybe a little bit. If I hadto be really honest about it, maybe
a little bit.
And can you think of anydisadvantages of doing like this?
Yeah, it is a little stressfulsometimes. Sometimes that stress
(19:02):
can be fun and sometimes not.And if I were to think about the
times where I, I've neverregretted working ahead on things.
Right. If I work ahead onthings, then life can happen in between
and then it doesn't becomestressful when I waited until the
last minute. But then also thefurnace goes out that day too. Right.
(19:28):
Like, so it's. It. You know,I, I've ex. I have plenty of experience
working ahead and I know thatI enjoy that experience better. I
know that I, I sometimes enjoythe last minute, but I'm sure that
my, my general well being andenjoyment would be better if I just
consistently worked ahead.
Yeah. What other advantagescan you think of of like working
(19:52):
ahead a little bit?
Yeah. More time for review.Right. Some more time to refine and
make it better. I'm trying tothink in this case, what's, what's
the other advantage? I mean,it just would, it would invariably
in our line of work, thingscome up all the time. That's like,
oh, here's a juicy opportunityto sink my teeth into. Now I've got
(20:16):
to put that off for anotherday because I still have to get this
thing done. Or it's like it'sa call you can't take because you've
got to make time for thisthing. Or something you now can't
do because you still have tomake time for this thing.
Okay. So another disadvantageis you can't actually react to unpredicted
needs, other unpredictableneeds, because you're already on
(20:40):
the critical path for this one.
Yeah.
What have you tried to disruptthis pattern?
Creating project plans, whichI used to hate doing. Now as an independent
consultant, I love doing itbecause it gives me line of sight
to all the things that I'msupposed to be making time for. So
that works. Blocking out time.Now my podcast recording schedule
(21:04):
is getting in the way for the,probably the next month or so. But
I basically closed downMondays on my calendar and, you know,
this is going to be designday, you know, desk work day, and
that until I started, until Iopened up my calendar for podcast
recording on Mondays, I hadbeen doing a pretty Good job at minimally
holding the day and maybe 60%of the time utilizing the day as
(21:28):
intended.
All right.
Yeah.
So you've done something thatit doesn't really seem like a life
threatening or careerthreatening situation right now.
Still kind of toying with it.It's like maybe a little bit improvement,
but not too much. What wouldSuperkent do? Like in your ideal
(21:50):
version, what would be yourway of dealing with the long term
development of the learningmodel for this client versus all
the other things?
I mean, I probably should putit on my calendar like any other
meeting. Like the things thatget in the way, which is the things
on my calendar. Right. So thatwould probably. Super Kent would
(22:11):
probably get a bit morediligent about not just knowing and
having it on a to do list.Like roughly when is this due? And
that probably means I need towork on it next week. Super Kent
would probably put that on hiscalendar so that a meeting didn't
get put there. And then thattime was dedicated and happened,
which was sort of the intentof the Design Mondays. But I didn't
(22:34):
put anything other than thegiant block to keep things away on
Design Mondays.
There's actually already amicro action that we can actually.
I can ask you in the nextstep. Okay. Can you create that action
for yourself of the thingsthat you really want to do? So Monday,
9 to 11:30.
(22:56):
Yeah, I still haven't. Myoutlook is open still. Jurgen. Fine.
I'm putting it on my calendarfor tomorrow.
All right. So you do it forJurgen. Now. That's. That's. That's
usually not how coaching is effective.
Yeah, it's more like. That's areally good point. And I should probably
just put it on my calendar andget it done.
(23:18):
What else? Okay, fantastic.So. So this, this one is improved
if you.
But I. So you joke. But Idon't know that I would have put
that on my calendar without anintentional conversation with someone
that's making me stop andpause. So jokingly you said, I'm
(23:39):
putting this on the calendarfor Jurgen. But truly, I think the
magic here is the permissionfor me to pause and talk about the
issue. And that in and ofitself is prompting me to do something
about it.
And the next step is, how canyou do this on regular basis? How
can it become a habit? So onething of looking at it is like, what
were the hidden benefits ofnot doing it? So.
(24:04):
Oh yeah. So we. We've bothlived the life of like, planned out
days to the nth degree. So oneof the benefits is I Do it when I
feel like versus when someoneor something is telling me to do
it. So it allows me this easy,breezy life.
(24:24):
Okay, you don't really want tobe scheduled. Not by yourself, and
certainly not.
And yet if you looked at mycalendar, you would say that seems
to fly in the. Fly in the faceof what my calendar actually looks
like.
Yeah, but I take your laugh asa confirmation you don't like it.
(24:46):
Like, if you can avoid it, youcan avoid it. So how can you make
it more fun to scheduleyourself at not feeling scheduled?
I mean, I do. I do like when Iwork ahead, that is for sure. So
that is fun. But maybe I couldthink of some way to treat myself
right if I. If I work in thisway, maybe.
(25:08):
You can find something totreat you. That's an interesting
thought.
Yeah, Love it.
All right, maybe let's. Let'sstop this exploration. But that's
how coaching works. It's like,I don't know how to solve your problem.
I have no idea. I know exactlywhat you know. And sometimes I know
a little bit more because,like, somebody not Kent and has read
(25:32):
everything I read. But that isnot the source for. For the coaching.
But the coaching kind ofmirrors things back. I want you to
hear yourself say what youwant to do.
Right?
Aha.
Yeah.
From your mind into your mind.That sticks and that sticks better.
Yeah. Yeah. Love it. I thinkit's a really good. I don't know
(25:55):
how many times I'll democoaching on this podcast. I think
that was a fun opportunityprobably for others to see kind of
how coaching works, let alonethe topic of procrastination, which
I think everybody wrestleswith in some way, shape, or form.
So as we move into. Well, anyfinal words about procrastination
(26:16):
before we move into our finalsegment here?
Procrastination is like asimple term that applies to a million
of different things that liebeneath. And actually that's something
also for the audience, for theself improvement that is easier than
coaching because you can do ityourself. I mean, you can explore
(26:36):
yourself, and if it doesn'twork, go find a coach, but you can
explore yourself. Like whatactually lies beneath my procrastination.
So for. For you, one aspectwas, I don't want to be locked in
by my freaking outlookcalendar. Yes, there you go. There's
(26:56):
also procrastination out offear of failure. There is procrastination,
fear of judgment. I don't wantto be judged. Or procrastination,
fear of change. All kinds offears drive procrastination so it's
like there is. Yes. Scheduleyourself and put it on the calendar
(27:18):
and follow your calendar.That's how you do it. But in your
mind, you need to overcome thehurdle that's before that.
Yeah. Interestingly, I wouldsay a common theme for me in my life
on something that makes meprocrastinate is I can make a mountain
(27:38):
out of a molehill in my ownhead. Right. I can be like, oh, that's
going to be this giant thing.It's going to take me hours and hours
or days and days. And thenwhen I finally, like, take making
a PowerPoint deck, like,sometimes in my head, I'll make this
into like, gosh, this is goingto take me forever. And then I sit
down and I pound it out in 30minutes. Right. And. And that's translated
(28:00):
to other places of my life. Ibuilt a floating deck in my backyard
that in my head, I made it.This. This is going to take me months.
It took me one weekend after Ihad it planned out.
Yes. So actually there's twothings. One, thinking things through
in your head also, especiallywhen it comes to building decks.
(28:24):
Once you have a clear plan.
Yeah.
You can do it in the afternoonif you don't think it through for
a longer time. But you buildBS and you need to tear it down because,
like, change your ideas in theprocess. So it's like there's something
said about the maturity.
Yeah.
So it's nothing wrong withthinking things through. And there
(28:45):
are certain aspects in notdoing everything right away, but
if there are specific patternsthat really get in your way to do
it to the degree that you'reannoyed with it, face your fear.
Yeah. Love it. Well, so Ihopefully this thus far has been
(29:06):
interesting or helpful for ourprocrastinating listeners out there.
So as we transition into ourfinal section here of the podcast.
So I asked you to preparethree things, three things our listeners
could take away, take actionon in some way from today. So love
to hear about what those are.
Yeah. So number one was,identify what lies behind your procrastination
(29:30):
so that you can do. Apply allthe smartness from the leadership
training.
And is that just as simple asstopping and asking yourself, what
am I getting out of this? Howam I benefiting from procrastinating?
What other. How do yourecommend people get to the bottom
of that?
I'm sure people were thinkingabout their own procrastination as
I was asking you questions andpoking around and making you say
(29:53):
the things that help you kindof get a little bit clearer. About
your procrastination and it'sthat kind of dialogue, like probing
it into it. And if you don'thave a procrastination problem, it's
not a problem. And if youdon't get far enough and you're still
like a horrible procrastinatorand it gets into your career, into
your performance, find acoach, give me a call. Yeah, I'll
(30:16):
get to back get to how to getto that later. So number two, identify
what lies behind yourprocrastination. Very important.
Number two, give yourselfpermission to say no when you really
feel this is not right. Youneed to protect your energy and your
boundaries. Especially in, inthe corporate setting but also the,
(30:41):
the free spirits and in theentrepreneurial side. They just love
to say yes. Do you want tobiggie size that? Yes. And catch
up? Yes.
At like do you want to catchup tomorrow? Absolutely.
Saying no doesn't make youself. It can make you effective.
Find your focus, pursue yourfocus, protect your boundaries. And
(31:07):
like what I do with, withpeople who come to me with, with
that issue thing like, like Inever, I can't, I can't say no to
it. Yeah. Figure out what yourboundaries are, then protect them.
We can do an energy audit.Audit. Where does your energy flow?
Is that really where you. Solet's catch up tomorrow. Is that
(31:29):
like something where yourenergy. Kind of.
One thing that I keep comingto in different coaching conversations
is, well, let's not make a seachange. Let's just experiment with
it. Like can you say no onetime this week? Can you just try
it out once and see how it goes?
Exactly.
(31:49):
Cool. And our third thingtoday, follow your path.
Identify the demands thatothers put into you and be clear.
That's what they want. And theend of the day, you are the master
of your fate. Nobody candictate. Well, okay, if ICE tells
(32:12):
you you're going to Guatemala,you're going. But that's force. I'm
not talking about that. Butyou have permission to choose what
you want. When you go in therestaurant, don't think about what
other people want and otherpeople's criteria for you. And that's
(32:35):
liberating and it'sthreatening because all of a sudden
you're also responsible. Youcan't blame others anymore for your
choices because you do whatyou want. Many high achievers operate
on the these shoulds anddesires. My boss wants me to do that.
My teacher always wanted me todo that. I wanted to get straight
(32:59):
A. So I did exactly what theytold me. And these shoulds don't
get you to maturity and theydon't get you to happiness. So I
don't know what your shouldsare and what is you in this, but
every person for themselvescan start reconnecting to themselves
(33:21):
and then discover theirintrinsic motivation, what really
drives them and what theyreally enjoy and separate that from
the external validations andclues that they receive in their
lives.
Love it. I think what you saidthat is really true there is that
it's liberating. Right. Andhow much freer you can be and feel
(33:46):
and what does that open up foryou? Love it. Well, so how can people
get a hold of you if they wantto work on procrastination or needing
a leadership coach of any kind?
Well, I'm, I'm easy to find.So my name is Jurgen bank and I'm
on LinkedIn. So you justsearch for J, U, R, G, E, N, B A
(34:06):
N, K, the last name and youcan also send me an email without
any form. What I do is like a15 minute like figuring things out.
It's like where can we go fromhere? Is there something where we
want to go? And it's like 15minutes is enough to see okay, what
(34:30):
lies. Is there something thatunderneath your pro procrastination
that we can effectivelyaddress? And, and usually the issues
are slightly more complex andthe pain is harder than oh yeah,
I should have done it lastweek but I'll do it next week. So
I'm good. So on LinkedInthere's also this button, your story
(34:52):
matters, let's talk and thenyou can self schedule a short meeting
with me.
Nice.
And I really enjoy that andit's actually, it's one of the things
that fuel me. It's likethere's people who will come and
have questions about theirgrowth and if we can do it in 15
(35:13):
minutes, we do it in 15minutes or we see what other options
we see.
Nice. Awesome. Well, I'll makesure I include your website and LinkedIn
or an email address in theshow notes. So appreciate that. So
that brings us to the end ofour episode today. Thank you Jurgen.
So I would encourage all mylisteners to head on over to not
only check out Jurgen'sLinkedIn page, but come on over to
(35:35):
my website. I made it as easyas possible from the old mouthful
that my website used to be. Sogo to Kent Coach that'll bring you
to my website if you'reinterested in what should I do post
promotion? How do Ieffectively land my first quarter
on the job? I continue toencourage you or if you're supporting
a leader, to head on over toKent Co before you go on with the
(35:59):
rest of your day, I do askthat you take a minute to rate and
review this podcast.Preferably five stars. That helps
put this in front of more eyesand ears, depending on the platform
you're on. So Juergen, thankyou a lot for being on today. I really
appreciate it. I know I got alot out of it from my own procrastination
journey, but I'm sure ourlisteners will as well.
(36:21):
It was a pleasure.
Thank you so much. Well, thankyou to all the listeners. Appreciate
your time as well and catchyou in the next episode. Take it
easy. That brings us to theend of our episode. Thanks for listening.
I'd encourage you to head onover to my website, Kent Coach and
start a conversation with methere. Or check out my promotion
playbook at Kent CoachPlaybook. Before you go on with your
(36:43):
day, I ask that you pleasetake a moment to leave a rating and
a review wherever you listento podcasts. Five stars. That helps
put this podcast in front ofmore eyes and ears. Until next time,
take it easy.
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