September 30, 2025 • 38 mins
Randi Roberts built a remarkable 30-year career in Pharmaceuticals, rising from Sales Representative to Vice President and Business Unit Head at one of the world's largest pharma companies before serving as Chief Commercial Officer for a start-up. Along the way, she started and ran two businesses. Her journey through four companies (large and small) and multiple career moves taught her to embrace each transition as an opportunity for growth. The value of executive coaching in her own development programs inspired her to make coaching her second career, using her business leadership experience to help others navigate their own transitions.
Randi holds a BA in Sociology from San Diego State University and an MBA from The Wharton School of Business. She's an Executive and Career-Life Coach certified by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching and accredited by the International Coach Federation. When she's not coaching, you'll find her near water (she grew up in Santa Monica and now lives on the East Coast), hiking, kayaking, attending music festivals, or reading. She lives with her husband Dave, daughter Emma, and two Border Collies, Charlotte and Wilbur.
We're diving deep into the idea that you gotta take the wheel of your own career, and trust me, it’s a ride worth taking! If you're feeling a little lost or stuck in the passenger seat, this convo is all about finding your groove again. We're chatting with Randy Roberts, a pro who helps folks shake things up and get back on track. She’s got some solid insights on why you can’t just clock in and out without thinking about what makes you tick. Spoiler alert: being happy in one area of your life usually means you need to be happy in others, too! So buckle up as we explore how to shift gears, set your own career path, and make sure you’re steering toward what truly makes you feel alive.
Stepping into the driver's seat of your career is like taking control of the wheel on a road trip; you decide the route, the stops, and the speed. This episode dives deep into the concept of personal and professional ownership, emphasizing that you can’t be unhappy in one part of your life and expect to thrive in another. Our guest, Randy Roberts, an executive and career life coach, shares her journey from thriving in the pharmaceutical industry to discovering her true calling as a coach. She highlights the importance of self-awareness in recognizing when something isn’t working and empowering oneself to make changes. The conversation is light-hearted yet profound, peppered with insights on how to communicate your career aspirations effectively to your leaders. We explore the dynamic between individual responsibility and organizational support, reinforcing that while leaders should guide their teams, ultimate accountability lies with the individual. By engaging in honest conversations about career goals and personal fulfillment, listeners are encouraged to take charge of their professional narratives, ensuring they align with their values and desires for a fulfilling life.
Takeaways:
- In your career, happiness in one area can't cover up unhappiness in another; work-life balance matters.
- People are now more open to reconsidering their career paths and taking control of their careers.
- Creating your path in the corporate world means taking the wheel and steering towards what you really want.
- It's key to keep an open dialogue with your boss about your career goals; it helps you both.
- Reflect on what truly lights you up at work and pursue those dynamics, not just titles.
- Don't forget to verbalize your career thoughts; talking it out can unlock new insights.
Links for today's show:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
We are who we are, whetherit's in our career, you know, our
work world or our personallife. Like you are who you are. So
you can't be unhappy one placeand expect to be happy the other.
So something, sometimessomething has to get fixed. And I
think, I think one of thereasons that it's coming up more
(00:25):
now, because I do see it is,is people are giving themselves more
permission to think about itand act on it.
Hi there and welcome to thestep Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
(00:46):
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing, as a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
(01:07):
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everybody.Today we're here to talk about getting
in the driver's seat of yourown career. And with me for this
conversation is Randy Roberts.She's an executive coach and career
(01:27):
life coach. She works withexecutives to help them love their
careers and achieve theirgoals. Randy, thank you for joining
me today.
Thanks, Ken. I'm really happyto be here.
Awesome. Well, before we getstarted, we'd love to hear how did
you get here today? Tell us alittle bit about your, your career
story.
Yeah, it's been, it's been along journey, but really great one.
My first career was inpharmaceutical industry and I actually
(01:50):
started as a sales repcarrying a bag into doctor's offices
in California where I grew upand then worked my way up through
sales training, marketing, gotmy MBA and then went into. I was
a total of three big pharmacompanies and the biggest jobs I
held were running businessunits in the US market, multi billion
dollar business. And I lovedit. I was one of those. I was in
(02:14):
Pharma for about 30 years andevery day I woke up before the alarm,
couldn't wait to get to work.And I considered myself so lucky
to be so engaged in what I wasdoing. So I know what that feels
like and then I know when thatgoes away because it felt as though
all Of a sudden, one day I washitting the snooze button and not
(02:36):
quite sure what had changed.Had I changed? Had the world changed,
had my job changed, what wasit? So had to do some real soul searching
to figure that out andactually left big pharma, left the
big corporate world, startedmy own consulting company as a way
to keep myself engaged andbusy while I was doing a bigger search,
(02:57):
because I know that if I getbored, I'll cause trouble for myself.
And then one of my clientshired me as chief commercial officer
for a small startup. And thenafter that opportunity went away,
I moved on to what I knew Iwanted the next big chunk of my career
to be, which was as anexecutive coach, did my training,
(03:18):
got certified, all the things,and have been running my own coaching
business for about eight yearsnow. And I can tell you, for eight
years, I've been back tojumping out of bed before the alarm.
My world is very different. Ihave created a situation for myself
that is much more flexible,fits what I want in this time of
(03:38):
my life. But really I feelI've always needed to do some good
while I'm doing well, and thathas been satisfied at different phases,
in different ways, atdifferent phases of my life. Now
the good I do is helping otherpeople achieve their goals. And I
feel very fortunate to workwith the clients that I do. Get to
(03:59):
talk to. People like you.Yeah, it was a great first chapter.
It's been a great second chapter.
Awesome. And I know that oneof the things that you wanted to
talk about today, and I'minterested in it as well, is people
taking ownership over theircareer, as you put it, stepping into
the driver's seat of theircareer. And so my first question
to you is, how has this becomesort of a passion area of yours?
(04:23):
Is it a big focus for you orparticularly something you're thinking
a lot about these days?
Yeah, it. It's a greatquestion. To a great extent, the
coaches that I know, we coachwhat we know, we coach what we've
experienced and lessons thatwe've learned the hard way to try
and make it easier for thefolks following us behind, if you
(04:46):
will. And that's definitelytrue of me. I was very lucky to work
with some great companies thatreally invested a lot in people they
saw as high potential, Bothmoving us around to give us different
experiences, to broaden ourbackground, giving us mentors, setting
up some really wonderfulspecific development programs in
(05:07):
a lot of different ways. So Iknow what that's like. I also know
that they have very specificTracks that they would like people
to follow. You take this job,then you take this job, then you
take this thing, andeventually it's that thing. And for
a lot of people, that worksout great. But what I really believe
now, I found it for myself andI work with a lot of clients on,
(05:30):
is you have to create your ownpath. It's great to have an idea
of where you want to get. Butthe beautiful thing about, you know,
sort of the world now ispeople take different journeys, it's
a bit more circuitous, it'snot a straight line. And I think
that people in big corporatesettings, you know, take the advice
(05:52):
and the support that you'regiven, but make your own decisions.
Because, you know, forexample, my world was always on the
commercial side of the pharmaindustry, so mostly sales and marketing.
And there were a lot of timeswhere a salesperson would move up
to sales manager, might moveup to regional director and want
(06:14):
to take on a biggeropportunity in the company. And there
are a lot of people that havethe bias that you must have marketing
experience. Now, I see a lotof pros to that and sort of lean
that way. But that's not theright thing for everybody. And so
we all need to step into thecontrol, you know, step behind the
(06:35):
control panel, whateveranalogy you want to use, and make
those decisions for ourselves.Because like, say somebody told you
in that example, spend twoyears in marketing and then you can
get back to this other thingor take on something bigger. There's
a lot of benefit in tryingdifferent things. But, but that's
two years of your life. And ifit's not going to be the right thing
(06:56):
for you, if you know that,don't do it. Create a different path
for yourself. Sometimes youjump in and it turns out to be the
right thing. But like, ourlives are moving while those things
are happening and I think weneed to make our own decisions. If.
Does that make sense?
It does. Yeah. And I thinkit's, it's fun. It's funny because
I feel like the last coupleyears that I was in hr, I was regularly,
(07:20):
you know, kind of in thisconversation of both trying to explain
to employees who were, I wouldsay, you know, mid ish career to
prior that, you know, there isnot a mythical career plan that we
have for you in like a filing cabinet.
(07:42):
Right.
And you know, because we wouldget this question, you know, what's
my career path? And I thinkeven that question is.
Feels funny to me, but. I'msorry to interrupt.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, well.And What I would say is what would
always illuminate thestorytelling that would illuminate
that point. The point of wedon't have that mythical path for
you would be when we actuallyhad leaders do some storytelling
(08:04):
of their own career paths.
Right.
And, and inevitably thesestories would, I don't. Nine times
out of 10, I would say therewas always some odd left hand turn
or, or right hand turn thathad, you know, that the, the leader
in question planned on. Thatwas not the path that they thought
(08:25):
they were on, but, but endedup providing, you know, tremendous
experience and was probablycritical to getting them to where
they're at today.
Right.
And, and even, you know, I wastalking to an SVP in a, an innovation
role just on Friday and youknow, he was talking about succession
(08:46):
for his own role and saying,no one's gonna have, I'll call him
Steve.
Right?
No one's gonna have Steve'spath to the role again.
Right.
My path to this role. He waslike, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
It was kind of how he put it.He was like, it was this left hand
turn, then that right handturn, you know. But he was talking
about like, how do we prepare?And that part of that conversation
(09:08):
was talking to him about,well, how do we think more broadly
about what the experiences are.
Right.
To get you there, to getsomeone there knowing that there
is no, no, there is. The pathhe was on was not a natural path,
you know, let alone how I'veseen in other organizations, sometimes
(09:29):
leaders, and sometimes thiscan be reinforced. Sometimes they
do have a path in mind. Andoftentimes what I see. So now I'm
kind of talking to both sidesof my mouth. But sometimes what I
see, when there is a path inmind, that sometimes it either only
produces exactly what you'vehad, which therefore, if you think
about results and businessoutcomes, might only produce what
(09:51):
you've always gotten.
Right.
Versus, you know, opening theaperture more and thinking about
experiences more broadly than specifically.
Right.
Stepwise.
Yeah, no, I think that that'strue. And look, in a company that
has these well establishedprograms, if there is, you know,
(10:12):
I've been part of these talentdiscussions and succession planning
discussions and, and they'reimportant and they sometimes make
other leaders in the companyaware of the talent that you have.
So they really are valuable. Ithink an important next step that
often is missed is tell theperson what the discussion is. Tell
(10:32):
the person how they areviewed, what their potential is seen
to be, what the discussion isabout them. We shouldn't be having
conversation behind closeddoors that isn't in some way acted
upon when it benefitssomebody, you know, the feedback
could benefit someone, someoneelse. And that's the dynamic that
pushes people into thepassenger seat of their own career.
(10:55):
And so I think there's a pushand a pull here. There's as the,
you know, engaged party, theperson who's looking for the opportunities.
We have an opportunity, and Iwould say even a responsibility to
ourselves to make what we wantknown. Now, that does not mean be
demanding and create asituation where we're giving an ultimatum.
(11:17):
Not at all. It's more a. Iwant to partner on this. Here are
my thoughts. Here's what Iwant to get to. Here's what I think
are the skills that I need todevelop. Here's the experience I
think that I could have. Whatdo you think? What do you have to
add to that? And if there'sthe right open communication there,
you can really tailor the pathto the individual in a way that works
(11:43):
within the company. Andsometimes that results in someone
deciding, wait a minute, thatisn't going to happen for me here.
But that's real better thatthey know and they make a long term
decision for themselves, evenif it means the company loses that
talent.
Yeah, well, and I would saytoo, you know, leaders need to lead
(12:04):
the way in having those kindsof conversations with their employees.
And I always say, probably alittle more regularly than you think.
Right.
I think leaders need to leadthe way in having these conversations
and probably more regularlythan they think. Right. I always
suggest you should probablyhave a career conversation of some
kind. Even if it's just asimple check in probably every six
(12:27):
months. Because things canchange in people's lives, both at
work, outside of work, thatcan change someone's idea of what
they want in their career on adime. And it can be great things
that happen.
Right.
I, you know, I got to havethis great experience or I was on
this great project. It openedmy eyes to maybe a different thing.
(12:51):
Let's talk about that. It canbe less fun things. You know, someone
in my family has a veryserious illness. Like, I'm just not
like right now. I needstability and to just be able to
show up every day. And I'mgonna maybe downshift my day to day,
like drive for the next thingwhile I, you know, take care of this
(13:12):
thing. Or, you know, sixmonths into a promotion or into a
new role, someone might say,this is not for me.
Right.
And you know, I think leadersneed to have these conversations
again, like I said, probably Alittle more frequently than they
might imagine.
I agree with you. And I think,you know, one of the sort of pet
peeves I've always had isthere's this great process in many
(13:35):
companies for settingobjectives for the year.
Right.
You spend a lot of timefiguring out what they are, lining
up the actions you're going totake to that, and then very often
don't look at them again untilit's time for performance appraisal.
So if companies set, you know,just sort of a habit of every six
months, say, taking a look atboss and the person that reports
(13:58):
to them, taking a look at whatthose objectives are and just even
inviting that. Has anythingchanged with career thinking that
we need to talk about it? Itallows the person to bring that up
in a comfortable way and itdoesn't have to be a big involved
process, but I think it's agood habit to build.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think to go back to apoint you were making is, you know,
(14:20):
bringing some of theseconversations we're having about
talent behind closed doors in.Into the light of day two.
Right.
Obviously, everybody's worriedabout, and I think they should be
careful about making promisesthat can't be made.
Right.
You know, you can't say, youknow, we think you're going to be
the next director of marketingwhen we don't know when that role
(14:40):
is going to become vacant. Wedon't know what's going to be happening
in the economy and thecompany, etc. Etc. Can't make that
promise. But you can say moregeneric things like, you know, we
think you have the potentialto be in that role someday depending
on, you know, how things, youknow, how things progress or our
developmental focus or, youknow, you know, we think you're heading
(15:02):
in that direction. Let's,like, if that's of interest to you,
how do we keep you developingtoward that or something like that.
Right. But. And I think theother thing that I learned too was
you probably need to have theconversations of, we think very highly
of you way more often than youthink as well. Probably way more
(15:23):
than every six months. Right.I think it's really easy, especially
for high performers, highachievers who. Who maybe are even
dabbling in a little bit ofperfectionism to forget that conversation
much faster than you think.
Well, I think fast feedback ingeneral is important. And when I
was leading large teams, whatI tried to do is when someone would
(15:46):
say something, you know, thatKent, he really went the extra mile
to do XYZ appreciated it. Iwould pass that along. As quickly
as I could. This, I mean, itfeels great. It reinforces the right
behavior, it helps build therelationship between me and in this
instance, you're my employee.But the, the other thing is, on the
(16:09):
other hand, if you hear anyfeedback that's not, you know, that's,
that's reflecting a need for achange, it's really important to
give that feedback quicklybecause what happens in organizations
is people develop theseperceptions sometimes based on that
someone else said. And if youdon't provide proof of something
(16:32):
different, if it'sappropriate, that kind of thing,
it becomes fact. And that'snot always fair. So whether it's
good or it's bad, share thefeedback. People deserve to know
what's going on around them.
Yeah, yeah.
So what else are you runninginto when you are working with people?
On stepping into the driver'sseat, so to speak. How else are you
(16:53):
nudging and coaching peoplearound that concept?
Well, there's a number ofthings. One of them is to break down.
What are the things about yourcurrent role that are lighting you
up? When have you been at yourbest? Like to just get clear on not
the job you want, but thedynamics that are best for you. If
(17:14):
it's leading a team, if it'sworking with a lot of peers, if it's,
it's growing a new businessunit, whatever that is, figure out
what works for you andlikewise figure out what doesn't
work for you. It might be avalues misalignment with management
or whatever that is, but themore clear you can get on what you
need and what puts you in thebest position to succeed, the better.
(17:36):
And then you can identify whatthat looks like and the reason that
I say dynamics rather than ajob. Some of us have a job in mind.
I want to be vice president ofmarketing, that kind of thing. But
some of us are more, I want todo a job that does these things in
general, which actually Ithink is healthy in a lot of ways.
One, sometimes things change.Like let's say it's a five year path
(18:00):
between today and what my goalis. The company may change, the world
may change, that particularjob may not exist. Stuff happens.
So if you're more focused onwhat's the nature of the work than
the title, you can more easilyshift on a dime and you will set
(18:21):
yourself up to expect whatthat's going to be like. Because
I've had clients that, youknow, I've been working for, you
know, 15 years towards abusiness unit lead role. And I've
done all of these things, andthen they finally get the job and
it's like, whoa, this is notwhat I thought it was going to be,
and this is not right for me.And maybe in the 15 years since they
(18:44):
set the goal, they've reallychanged, or what they want has really
changed. So focusing on sortof the meat of the job rather than
the chair, the title,whatever, can set you up well in
both ways. And I think themore clear people can get on what
the goal is. You know, somepeople ask, you know, they'll. They'll
(19:04):
talk about it. What's the jobyou want to retire from? I don't
know if that's the rightquestion, but, like, what's the ultimate
career goal that you have? Themore clear you can get on that, the
easier choices are. Because,like, strategy is all about making
choices. Right. And so thatjob might be almost like picking
your lanes. And you can say,like, if that's 10 years away, what
(19:26):
does Randy, 10 years from now,who's stepping into that job, need
Randy to do today to set upthat path? And so you can, if you
have that in mind, you canalways change it. You're making the
rules. But if you have that inmind, it makes choices that you make
today easier.
Yeah.
So two things and keep mehonest here, because I want to come
(19:49):
back to stating your goal. Ithink you've said that a couple times
now.
Now.
But before we get there, onething I am interestingly running
into, and I'm curious ifyou're running into this as well,
is almost a slight pivot tothis, which is folks who are maybe
managerish level, depending onsize of the organization that has
(20:10):
lots of meaning behind it,that title, but manager directorish
level, really looking. I findthis over the last year a lot, maybe
the last two years, looking atthat next level and saying, not sure
I actually want that anymore.
Right.
And. And I don't know what'sin, you know, I can make some assumptions
as to what's in the water,what's in the air, but I'm seeing
(20:33):
some people, and maybe it was.Maybe it was, you know, Covid. Maybe
it was sort of the, the backand forth of tariffs at the beginning
of 2025 here. That's, that's,you know, something, some, something
has started to make some folksat least see the matrix code, so
(20:53):
to speak, and are actuallyasking themselves these questions
that you're posing here, whichis beyond the title. How do I want
my day to day to look and feeland starting to look at that next
level? People whoorganizations have actually wanted
to be on that path are doingsome of the math for themselves and
saying, I don't know that Aplus B equals a life well lived for
(21:16):
me anymore anymore. Like, not,not that they want to leave corporate
America, but say, like, Ithink I like what I'm doing and I
no longer want to reach forthat thing. Or just questioning,
is reaching for that thingreally worth it? I'm wondering if
you're bumping into that verysame dynamic these days.
I am. And you know, the otherelement I'll add to that is I don't
(21:39):
know if that's right for menow because we go through different
seasons of our lives. I mean,I'm. I see that a lot and I'm really
passionate about it. I mean,my own podcast and a lot of the programs
that I do are calledFulfilling Career Happy Life. Because
it is about both. We are whowe are, whether it's in our career,
you know, our work world, orour personal life. Like, you are
(22:04):
who you are. So you can't beunhappy one place and expect to be
happy the other. So something,sometimes something has to get fixed.
And I think, I think one ofthe reasons that it's coming up more
now, because I do see it, ispeople are giving themselves more
permission to think about itand act on it. I actually think the
(22:26):
folks coming into the workworld now are smarter than I was,
than sort of my generation ofthat work world was because we were
head down, do the work, getahead, that kind of thing. And, and
people now are expecting towork for companies that have philanthropic
(22:46):
aspects to it, not work, youknow, 24 7, not travel all the time.
They have a life and they wantto live that life too. So that's
some of the dynamics I thinkare at play. But like all the factors
you mentioned, it's in the airwe breathe. We're in a post Covid
world. There's a lot ofcompanies that were totally remote
that are pulling people backin now. That's a change for people,
(23:09):
and you have to figure outwhat that means for you. The world
is changing, the dynamics arechanging. You know, you have to figure
out what it means for you. Andthat's all the more reason to be
in the driver's seat of yourown career. You can put all those
pieces together in the bestway for yourself. No matter how much
someone has your best interestat heart, you're the one that should
(23:32):
be making those decisions.
Well, and so that brings meback to stating what, what your goals
are, right to your leader.I've been in numerous, you know,
conversations, coachingconversations too, where so like
you, right, I, when I was inmy corporate job in hr, I was in
those talent review orsuccession planning kind of conversations
(23:53):
where we're identifying highpotential leaders. And in my experience,
the leaders who are best ableto, to advocate and speak about and
on behalf of their teammembers know what their team members
want and even on what kind oftimeline they might want it. Now.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean, you know,so let me pause there and say, so
(24:17):
I've, I've had someconversations where I've been talking
to folks coaching folksaround, how do you state your goal
and timeline for that goal?
Right.
I want to be this within thisamount of time while also helping
them understand that that's adialogue too. Your leader might have
a slight difference of opinionon what that timeline might be or
(24:39):
not, but they're going to feela lot better as they're approaching
what your deadline might be.They're going to be more empowered
to either advocate on yourbehalf or provide you with good coaching.
You know, if that time, thatquote, unquote timeline looks like
it might be slipping. But I,I, I right where you are. I think
(25:00):
you were talking about thisearly in our, in our conversation
around, you know, state whatthat goal is, state what you want
and when you want it.
Yeah.
And the first step is you gotto get clear on that goal. And sometimes,
you know, you should revisitit as things change in your life
and whatever, you know, youmay see possibilities you didn't
(25:21):
see before, but, you know,stating like, I've seen people and
I've been in the positionearly in my career, you get asked,
what do you want to do? It'slike, ooh, I should say this, that
kind of thing. Well, you know,you need to figure out what the answer
is for yourself authentically.Now, having said that, there are
(25:43):
times when you encountersomebody that may want to have that
conversation with you thatfor, for whatever reason has proven
that you can't trust them withthat conversation or something. Sometimes
we have to play a little bitof a game, but for the most part,
the more we can know what'strue for us, the better we can advocate
for ourselves and arm oursupporters to carry that message
(26:07):
forward. When I went intoexecutive coaching, I did not expect
the degree to which we'd befocused on the, the inner work. I
thought it would be all thecareer stuff. And the truth is we
do way more inner work than Ithought. Understanding what your
values and drivers are, youknow, understanding the dynamic that
puts you at your best,understanding what kind of boss you
(26:29):
want to work for, those kindsof things. And it's surprising to
me sometimes when I talk topeople about careers and what do
you want? And whatever. AndI'll ask them a question that feels
simple, like, at what age areyou planning to retire? That matters.
Right. And they're, oh, neverthought about that. Okay. And I sort
(26:50):
of suggested them that it maybe time even to make a financial
plan. Now, that's not my areaof expertise. I don't go there. But
I think it's a good idea forpeople to be thinking ahead again.
What is it that you want toget to so you can make choices today
that set that future up for you?
Yeah, yeah.
And what are your whys behindit, too?
Right.
If I probably have said thison a few different. A few different.
(27:13):
Of my episodes now withdifferent folks for different reasons,
which is, you know, I was inthis. In a. In a workshop, and the
guy who was leading it wasjust like, let's talk about, you
know, the layers of your whys.You know, why you're doing what you're
doing. And he. He immediatelyput out there because he's. He's
probably done this so manytimes. He said, if one of your whys
is I want to make gobs ofmoney, that's fine. Put that down.
(27:35):
But why do you want to makegobs of money?
Right.
And why do you want that?
Right.
And so getting really clear onwhat your whys are.
Right.
So that, again, I think it'sjust one more of those pieces to.
I'll use your words. Thathelps you step into the driver's
seat.
Right?
Yeah. You know, money is aninteresting topic because money is
not just money. Like, I canopen my, you know, my stock portfolio
(28:00):
statement and see what my networth is, or, you know, I could see
what my salary is or obviouslytrack what my business is bringing
in. In. But, yeah, why is thatimportant? What does it mean to you?
And I do have thatconversation with people if they're
looking for a new job. Say,okay, what are your expectations
for salary? What's yourhurdle? What do you need to make
that move? And sometimes it'sin dollars and sometimes it's in
(28:23):
percentage over where I am.Okay, the next question is, what's
going to be different in yourlife when you achieve that? Because
then they can think aboutthat. Why? And, you know, for some
people, it's, well, it's alittle bit more security or it's
more money in my kid's collegefund or, you know, I support an elderly
parent. Whatever it is, it'sthe thing that the money will enable
(28:47):
them to do. And sometimes eventhe way they define themselves as
a result of it, I'm the personthat can help other people or whatever
that is. It's way more thanjust money.
Yeah, yeah.
So what else? When it comes togetting people to step into the driver's
seat, what are some of theother conversations you're having
and nudges you're making?
Yeah, it's interesting becauseI mentioned before that some people
(29:11):
will come to me at a time whenthey're considering a job transition.
In fact, when I see potentialnew clients, very often they present
with some version of. And whatI my own experience was I used to
be just really excited by myjob and now I'm just exhausted by
it. Like, I got to figure thisout. So we dig into what is working
(29:34):
for you, what's not workingfor you, so that sometimes what they
find is the things that aren'tworking for me. I can change right
where I am. Because very oftenthere's good either career or financial
reasons to stay where you are.So if you know what it is, you might
be able to fix it. And on theother hand, if you decide you have
to leave, you know what tolook for and what to avoid. So I
(29:58):
would say getting really clearon that is helpful. And in fact,
I have a tool, free tool thatpeople can download from my website.
It's under. My website isRandy with Randy with an I randy
roberts coaching.com and ifyou go to the resource section, you'll
see the career satisfactionassessment. And it just can walk
(30:19):
you through a way to sort ofidentify for yourself what is working,
what's not working so that youknow if you can fix it where you
are or if you need to go andmake sure you're not not taking the
problem with you.
Nice.
So I think that's. That's agreat way to start. And then the
other. Another big suggestionI have is talk to somebody else.
(30:40):
We tend to get all up in ourheads about these things. We may
not talk it out. We may notshare other ideas. And something
really unlocks when youverbalize this stuff, you talk it
out with someone who willlisten and, and tell you the truth
and maybe add other ideas tothe mix. Something changes. So don't
(31:00):
get locked in and think youhave to solve this yourself. Get
some help. You have. You know,it could be a spouse or partner.
It could be a former boss, itcould be a peer, it could be a college
friend, whatever. There'ssomeone in your world that will engage
in that with you, and there'salways something to be gained by
it. Then you take whateverhappened and you get back in the
(31:21):
driver's seat and you figureout what you're going to do with
it.
Yeah. Sometimes you. You'd besurprised what unlocks when you have
to hear yourself say certainthings out loud.
Yeah, I mean, I. I don't knowif you have this experience, Kent,
but I do fairly frequentlywhere I'll have a conversation, you'll
have a session. My sessionswith clients are usually 50 minutes.
(31:42):
We may get all the way throughto the end of the session, and they'll
say something lovely like,randy, you always help me so much.
I feel so much better. You're.You're wonderful. And I'll say, you
know, that feels great tohear. I really appreciate it. And
do you realize that of this 50minutes, you talked 42 minutes or
whatever, like they should be.They are talking it through, almost
(32:03):
having a conversation withthemselves, with an active partner
there, and they have gottenthemselves to the right place. So
it's just that magic that.That happens when you talk it out
with a trusted partner.
Yeah. And I would say if, youknow, if you're listening to this
call or call this podcastepisode and you are, you know, coaching
(32:25):
other people, either as acoach or HR or senior leader. Also
the power of, like,paraphrasing back to people what
they just said. Because I alsowould say, sometimes hearing someone
else say what you've justsaid, too, helps you hear it in a
different way, too. It's like,oh. I think a favorite saying of
(32:45):
mine is like, oh, when you sayit back to me in English, that sounds
like this. Yeah.
I mean, a lot of times my goto is some version of. So what I
hear you saying is this.
Yeah.
And encapsulating it in thatway. Yeah, it's very helpful.
Yeah.
Well, so, you know, I thinkwe're getting to, I think, even some
(33:08):
advice here. So I'm going topush us into the advice column here
and say so as we're. And itcan be about getting in the driver's
seat or something else,something that's kind of on your
mind. But what's one big pieceof advice you have today for leaders
who might be listening?
Yeah. So I'm going to give twopieces. They're related, and it's
really for leaders of leaders,because you're developing people
(33:29):
that may have, they'reimpacting others and they may have
the opportunity to step intoeven bigger roles. All these things
that we're talking about aswe're leading, we're modeling that.
So sometimes that's the bestteacher is, you know, people see
you walking your talk. And oneway to take that to an even greater
(33:51):
degree is my own coach says,like, narrate the situation sometimes
when, you know, in, when I wasin the world or I have clients now
of managing leaders. So you'reat least a second third line manager.
Talk them through thedecisions you're trying to make,
how you're breaking it down,what you may be struggling with.
(34:13):
That process not only helpsyou to work it through, but it brings
them along the journey withyou. They may help you with a solution.
They will understand where youare and it helps them be more ready
when they're in that seat. Sothose would be the suggestions that
I would have. Have. What, whatdo you have to add to that?
(34:34):
I, you know, I think I said ita few times through the call.
Right.
Is, is have careerconversations with your people intentionally
and, you know, at least acouple times a year.
Right.
At least every six months. Youknow, if you haven't never had a
big career conversation withsomeone, we'll have that.
Right.
And then the next one doesn'thave to be as big. And as for. Right.
(34:57):
It can be, it can be a littlemore informal and more of a check
in.
Right.
Yeah.
Hey, this is, you know, thisis what you said you were interested
in six months ago. How's thatfeeling today? How you know, is that
still what you're thinking?Are there other things you're thinking?
That's what I, I think Iwould, I would continue to push people
to have more regular, youknow, open conversations about what
(35:18):
people, you know, what peoplewant to be when they grow up.
Right.
I think that sends the messagethat I care about you. You. I want
to help you get what you want.So I think there's every reason to
do that.
Yeah.
So for, and I know you, yougave a bit of advice for those like
senior leaders who aresupporting leaders. But let me go
to the next, you know, whichis a piece of advice you have for
(35:38):
those who support leaders. Soit could be another piece of advice
for senior leaders or say HRor coaches out there.
Yeah. I think getting curiousis a tremendous leadership tool.
And sometimes we hear thingsin a certain way and if you ask a
few questions, you know, tellme more about that, what does that
(36:00):
mean? How does that show up?Whatever it is. You can understand
better where they're comingfrom and they can understand better
where they're coming frombecause we have, you know, thinkers
have a tremendous skill atgetting in our own way. And so sometimes
getting the next question,like forcing ourselves to sort of
(36:20):
double click on it, if youwill, what is the why behind this?
As you said, get curious aboutwhat they're telling you. I think
that can really unlock somethings, so you experience it for
yourself, you model it forothers. It just, it. It sets up the
situation to better match up.What does a person offer and what
(36:41):
do they want with what can weprovide for them? So, you know, it's
all good. And again, if thematch isn't there, better to find
out and let the person, youknow, find their bliss where they
need to and get someone in therole that better fits, you know,
what, what success will looklike in your company.
Nice. Nice. Awesome. Well, so,you know, as we're kind of on our
(37:05):
way out here, for those whoare looking for a little more Randy
Rob Roberts in their lives,you know, how can they find you?
Where should they find you?What should they reach out to you
about?
Yeah, thanks for asking.Probably the best way to find me
is through my website. Andagain, that's Randy R A N D I robertscoaching.com
there's the careersatisfaction test that I mentioned
(37:28):
on my resource section.There's episodes of all my own podcasts,
which is again, fulfillingcareer habits, happy life. That's
also on YouTube. If you get onmy email list, you'll get some some
other things. So lots of waysfor those poor folks that want more
Randy Roberts in their life.
Awesome. Well, I'll make sureto put all of those in the show notes
for today. Randy, thank youfor coming on the podcast. This is
(37:51):
a fun conversation and I hopewe can do it again in the future.
Yeah, I'd enjoy it, Kent.Thanks so much for having me.
All right, that brings us tothe end of our episode. Thanks for
listening.
Listening.
I'd encourage you to head onover to my website, Kent Coach, and
start a conversation with methere. Or check out my promotion
playbook at Kent CoachPlaybook. Before you go on with your
day, I ask that you pleasetake a moment to leave a rating and
(38:12):
a review wherever you listento podcasts. Five stars. That helps
put this podcast in front ofmore eyes and ears. Until next time,
take it easy.
We are who we are, whetherit's in our career, you know, our
work world or our personallife. Like you are who you are. So
you can't be unhappy one placeand expect to be happy the other.
So something, sometimessomething has to get fixed. And I
think, I think one of thereasons that it's coming up more
(00:25):
now, because I do see it is,is people are giving themselves more
permission to think about itand act on it.
Hi there and welcome to thestep Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
(00:46):
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing, as a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
(01:07):
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everybody.Today we're here to talk about getting
in the driver's seat of yourown career. And with me for this
conversation is Randy Roberts.She's an executive coach and career
(01:27):
life coach. She works withexecutives to help them love their
careers and achieve theirgoals. Randy, thank you for joining
me today.
Thanks, Ken. I'm really happyto be here.
Awesome. Well, before we getstarted, we'd love to hear how did
you get here today? Tell us alittle bit about your, your career
story.
Yeah, it's been, it's been along journey, but really great one.
My first career was inpharmaceutical industry and I actually
(01:50):
started as a sales repcarrying a bag into doctor's offices
in California where I grew upand then worked my way up through
sales training, marketing, gotmy MBA and then went into. I was
a total of three big pharmacompanies and the biggest jobs I
held were running businessunits in the US market, multi billion
dollar business. And I lovedit. I was one of those. I was in
(02:14):
Pharma for about 30 years andevery day I woke up before the alarm,
couldn't wait to get to work.And I considered myself so lucky
to be so engaged in what I wasdoing. So I know what that feels
like and then I know when thatgoes away because it felt as though
all Of a sudden, one day I washitting the snooze button and not
(02:36):
quite sure what had changed.Had I changed? Had the world changed,
had my job changed, what wasit? So had to do some real soul searching
to figure that out andactually left big pharma, left the
big corporate world, startedmy own consulting company as a way
to keep myself engaged andbusy while I was doing a bigger search,
(02:57):
because I know that if I getbored, I'll cause trouble for myself.
And then one of my clientshired me as chief commercial officer
for a small startup. And thenafter that opportunity went away,
I moved on to what I knew Iwanted the next big chunk of my career
to be, which was as anexecutive coach, did my training,
(03:18):
got certified, all the things,and have been running my own coaching
business for about eight yearsnow. And I can tell you, for eight
years, I've been back tojumping out of bed before the alarm.
My world is very different. Ihave created a situation for myself
that is much more flexible,fits what I want in this time of
(03:38):
my life. But really I feelI've always needed to do some good
while I'm doing well, and thathas been satisfied at different phases,
in different ways, atdifferent phases of my life. Now
the good I do is helping otherpeople achieve their goals. And I
feel very fortunate to workwith the clients that I do. Get to
(03:59):
talk to. People like you.Yeah, it was a great first chapter.
It's been a great second chapter.
Awesome. And I know that oneof the things that you wanted to
talk about today, and I'minterested in it as well, is people
taking ownership over theircareer, as you put it, stepping into
the driver's seat of theircareer. And so my first question
to you is, how has this becomesort of a passion area of yours?
(04:23):
Is it a big focus for you orparticularly something you're thinking
a lot about these days?
Yeah, it. It's a greatquestion. To a great extent, the
coaches that I know, we coachwhat we know, we coach what we've
experienced and lessons thatwe've learned the hard way to try
and make it easier for thefolks following us behind, if you
(04:46):
will. And that's definitelytrue of me. I was very lucky to work
with some great companies thatreally invested a lot in people they
saw as high potential, Bothmoving us around to give us different
experiences, to broaden ourbackground, giving us mentors, setting
up some really wonderfulspecific development programs in
(05:07):
a lot of different ways. So Iknow what that's like. I also know
that they have very specificTracks that they would like people
to follow. You take this job,then you take this job, then you
take this thing, andeventually it's that thing. And for
a lot of people, that worksout great. But what I really believe
now, I found it for myself andI work with a lot of clients on,
(05:30):
is you have to create your ownpath. It's great to have an idea
of where you want to get. Butthe beautiful thing about, you know,
sort of the world now ispeople take different journeys, it's
a bit more circuitous, it'snot a straight line. And I think
that people in big corporatesettings, you know, take the advice
(05:52):
and the support that you'regiven, but make your own decisions.
Because, you know, forexample, my world was always on the
commercial side of the pharmaindustry, so mostly sales and marketing.
And there were a lot of timeswhere a salesperson would move up
to sales manager, might moveup to regional director and want
(06:14):
to take on a biggeropportunity in the company. And there
are a lot of people that havethe bias that you must have marketing
experience. Now, I see a lotof pros to that and sort of lean
that way. But that's not theright thing for everybody. And so
we all need to step into thecontrol, you know, step behind the
(06:35):
control panel, whateveranalogy you want to use, and make
those decisions for ourselves.Because like, say somebody told you
in that example, spend twoyears in marketing and then you can
get back to this other thingor take on something bigger. There's
a lot of benefit in tryingdifferent things. But, but that's
two years of your life. And ifit's not going to be the right thing
(06:56):
for you, if you know that,don't do it. Create a different path
for yourself. Sometimes youjump in and it turns out to be the
right thing. But like, ourlives are moving while those things
are happening and I think weneed to make our own decisions. If.
Does that make sense?
It does. Yeah. And I thinkit's, it's fun. It's funny because
I feel like the last coupleyears that I was in hr, I was regularly,
(07:20):
you know, kind of in thisconversation of both trying to explain
to employees who were, I wouldsay, you know, mid ish career to
prior that, you know, there isnot a mythical career plan that we
have for you in like a filing cabinet.
(07:42):
Right.
And you know, because we wouldget this question, you know, what's
my career path? And I thinkeven that question is.
Feels funny to me, but. I'msorry to interrupt.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, well.And What I would say is what would
always illuminate thestorytelling that would illuminate
that point. The point of wedon't have that mythical path for
you would be when we actuallyhad leaders do some storytelling
(08:04):
of their own career paths.
Right.
And, and inevitably thesestories would, I don't. Nine times
out of 10, I would say therewas always some odd left hand turn
or, or right hand turn thathad, you know, that the, the leader
in question planned on. Thatwas not the path that they thought
(08:25):
they were on, but, but endedup providing, you know, tremendous
experience and was probablycritical to getting them to where
they're at today.
Right.
And, and even, you know, I wastalking to an SVP in a, an innovation
role just on Friday and youknow, he was talking about succession
(08:46):
for his own role and saying,no one's gonna have, I'll call him
Steve.
Right?
No one's gonna have Steve'spath to the role again.
Right.
My path to this role. He waslike, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
It was kind of how he put it.He was like, it was this left hand
turn, then that right handturn, you know. But he was talking
about like, how do we prepare?And that part of that conversation
(09:08):
was talking to him about,well, how do we think more broadly
about what the experiences are.
Right.
To get you there, to getsomeone there knowing that there
is no, no, there is. The pathhe was on was not a natural path,
you know, let alone how I'veseen in other organizations, sometimes
(09:29):
leaders, and sometimes thiscan be reinforced. Sometimes they
do have a path in mind. Andoftentimes what I see. So now I'm
kind of talking to both sidesof my mouth. But sometimes what I
see, when there is a path inmind, that sometimes it either only
produces exactly what you'vehad, which therefore, if you think
about results and businessoutcomes, might only produce what
(09:51):
you've always gotten.
Right.
Versus, you know, opening theaperture more and thinking about
experiences more broadly than specifically.
Right.
Stepwise.
Yeah, no, I think that that'strue. And look, in a company that
has these well establishedprograms, if there is, you know,
(10:12):
I've been part of these talentdiscussions and succession planning
discussions and, and they'reimportant and they sometimes make
other leaders in the companyaware of the talent that you have.
So they really are valuable. Ithink an important next step that
often is missed is tell theperson what the discussion is. Tell
(10:32):
the person how they areviewed, what their potential is seen
to be, what the discussion isabout them. We shouldn't be having
conversation behind closeddoors that isn't in some way acted
upon when it benefitssomebody, you know, the feedback
could benefit someone, someoneelse. And that's the dynamic that
pushes people into thepassenger seat of their own career.
(10:55):
And so I think there's a pushand a pull here. There's as the,
you know, engaged party, theperson who's looking for the opportunities.
We have an opportunity, and Iwould say even a responsibility to
ourselves to make what we wantknown. Now, that does not mean be
demanding and create asituation where we're giving an ultimatum.
(11:17):
Not at all. It's more a. Iwant to partner on this. Here are
my thoughts. Here's what Iwant to get to. Here's what I think
are the skills that I need todevelop. Here's the experience I
think that I could have. Whatdo you think? What do you have to
add to that? And if there'sthe right open communication there,
you can really tailor the pathto the individual in a way that works
(11:43):
within the company. Andsometimes that results in someone
deciding, wait a minute, thatisn't going to happen for me here.
But that's real better thatthey know and they make a long term
decision for themselves, evenif it means the company loses that
talent.
Yeah, well, and I would saytoo, you know, leaders need to lead
(12:04):
the way in having those kindsof conversations with their employees.
And I always say, probably alittle more regularly than you think.
Right.
I think leaders need to leadthe way in having these conversations
and probably more regularlythan they think. Right. I always
suggest you should probablyhave a career conversation of some
kind. Even if it's just asimple check in probably every six
(12:27):
months. Because things canchange in people's lives, both at
work, outside of work, thatcan change someone's idea of what
they want in their career on adime. And it can be great things
that happen.
Right.
I, you know, I got to havethis great experience or I was on
this great project. It openedmy eyes to maybe a different thing.
(12:51):
Let's talk about that. It canbe less fun things. You know, someone
in my family has a veryserious illness. Like, I'm just not
like right now. I needstability and to just be able to
show up every day. And I'mgonna maybe downshift my day to day,
like drive for the next thingwhile I, you know, take care of this
(13:12):
thing. Or, you know, sixmonths into a promotion or into a
new role, someone might say,this is not for me.
Right.
And you know, I think leadersneed to have these conversations
again, like I said, probably Alittle more frequently than they
might imagine.
I agree with you. And I think,you know, one of the sort of pet
peeves I've always had isthere's this great process in many
(13:35):
companies for settingobjectives for the year.
Right.
You spend a lot of timefiguring out what they are, lining
up the actions you're going totake to that, and then very often
don't look at them again untilit's time for performance appraisal.
So if companies set, you know,just sort of a habit of every six
months, say, taking a look atboss and the person that reports
(13:58):
to them, taking a look at whatthose objectives are and just even
inviting that. Has anythingchanged with career thinking that
we need to talk about it? Itallows the person to bring that up
in a comfortable way and itdoesn't have to be a big involved
process, but I think it's agood habit to build.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think to go back to apoint you were making is, you know,
(14:20):
bringing some of theseconversations we're having about
talent behind closed doors in.Into the light of day two.
Right.
Obviously, everybody's worriedabout, and I think they should be
careful about making promisesthat can't be made.
Right.
You know, you can't say, youknow, we think you're going to be
the next director of marketingwhen we don't know when that role
(14:40):
is going to become vacant. Wedon't know what's going to be happening
in the economy and thecompany, etc. Etc. Can't make that
promise. But you can say moregeneric things like, you know, we
think you have the potentialto be in that role someday depending
on, you know, how things, youknow, how things progress or our
developmental focus or, youknow, you know, we think you're heading
(15:02):
in that direction. Let's,like, if that's of interest to you,
how do we keep you developingtoward that or something like that.
Right. But. And I think theother thing that I learned too was
you probably need to have theconversations of, we think very highly
of you way more often than youthink as well. Probably way more
(15:23):
than every six months. Right.I think it's really easy, especially
for high performers, highachievers who. Who maybe are even
dabbling in a little bit ofperfectionism to forget that conversation
much faster than you think.
Well, I think fast feedback ingeneral is important. And when I
was leading large teams, whatI tried to do is when someone would
(15:46):
say something, you know, thatKent, he really went the extra mile
to do XYZ appreciated it. Iwould pass that along. As quickly
as I could. This, I mean, itfeels great. It reinforces the right
behavior, it helps build therelationship between me and in this
instance, you're my employee.But the, the other thing is, on the
(16:09):
other hand, if you hear anyfeedback that's not, you know, that's,
that's reflecting a need for achange, it's really important to
give that feedback quicklybecause what happens in organizations
is people develop theseperceptions sometimes based on that
someone else said. And if youdon't provide proof of something
(16:32):
different, if it'sappropriate, that kind of thing,
it becomes fact. And that'snot always fair. So whether it's
good or it's bad, share thefeedback. People deserve to know
what's going on around them.
Yeah, yeah.
So what else are you runninginto when you are working with people?
On stepping into the driver'sseat, so to speak. How else are you
(16:53):
nudging and coaching peoplearound that concept?
Well, there's a number ofthings. One of them is to break down.
What are the things about yourcurrent role that are lighting you
up? When have you been at yourbest? Like to just get clear on not
the job you want, but thedynamics that are best for you. If
(17:14):
it's leading a team, if it'sworking with a lot of peers, if it's,
it's growing a new businessunit, whatever that is, figure out
what works for you andlikewise figure out what doesn't
work for you. It might be avalues misalignment with management
or whatever that is, but themore clear you can get on what you
need and what puts you in thebest position to succeed, the better.
(17:36):
And then you can identify whatthat looks like and the reason that
I say dynamics rather than ajob. Some of us have a job in mind.
I want to be vice president ofmarketing, that kind of thing. But
some of us are more, I want todo a job that does these things in
general, which actually Ithink is healthy in a lot of ways.
One, sometimes things change.Like let's say it's a five year path
(18:00):
between today and what my goalis. The company may change, the world
may change, that particularjob may not exist. Stuff happens.
So if you're more focused onwhat's the nature of the work than
the title, you can more easilyshift on a dime and you will set
(18:21):
yourself up to expect whatthat's going to be like. Because
I've had clients that, youknow, I've been working for, you
know, 15 years towards abusiness unit lead role. And I've
done all of these things, andthen they finally get the job and
it's like, whoa, this is notwhat I thought it was going to be,
and this is not right for me.And maybe in the 15 years since they
(18:44):
set the goal, they've reallychanged, or what they want has really
changed. So focusing on sortof the meat of the job rather than
the chair, the title,whatever, can set you up well in
both ways. And I think themore clear people can get on what
the goal is. You know, somepeople ask, you know, they'll. They'll
(19:04):
talk about it. What's the jobyou want to retire from? I don't
know if that's the rightquestion, but, like, what's the ultimate
career goal that you have? Themore clear you can get on that, the
easier choices are. Because,like, strategy is all about making
choices. Right. And so thatjob might be almost like picking
your lanes. And you can say,like, if that's 10 years away, what
(19:26):
does Randy, 10 years from now,who's stepping into that job, need
Randy to do today to set upthat path? And so you can, if you
have that in mind, you canalways change it. You're making the
rules. But if you have that inmind, it makes choices that you make
today easier.
Yeah.
So two things and keep mehonest here, because I want to come
(19:49):
back to stating your goal. Ithink you've said that a couple times
now.
Now.
But before we get there, onething I am interestingly running
into, and I'm curious ifyou're running into this as well,
is almost a slight pivot tothis, which is folks who are maybe
managerish level, depending onsize of the organization that has
(20:10):
lots of meaning behind it,that title, but manager directorish
level, really looking. I findthis over the last year a lot, maybe
the last two years, looking atthat next level and saying, not sure
I actually want that anymore.
Right.
And. And I don't know what'sin, you know, I can make some assumptions
as to what's in the water,what's in the air, but I'm seeing
(20:33):
some people, and maybe it was.Maybe it was, you know, Covid. Maybe
it was sort of the, the backand forth of tariffs at the beginning
of 2025 here. That's, that's,you know, something, some, something
has started to make some folksat least see the matrix code, so
(20:53):
to speak, and are actuallyasking themselves these questions
that you're posing here, whichis beyond the title. How do I want
my day to day to look and feeland starting to look at that next
level? People whoorganizations have actually wanted
to be on that path are doingsome of the math for themselves and
saying, I don't know that Aplus B equals a life well lived for
(21:16):
me anymore anymore. Like, not,not that they want to leave corporate
America, but say, like, Ithink I like what I'm doing and I
no longer want to reach forthat thing. Or just questioning,
is reaching for that thingreally worth it? I'm wondering if
you're bumping into that verysame dynamic these days.
I am. And you know, the otherelement I'll add to that is I don't
(21:39):
know if that's right for menow because we go through different
seasons of our lives. I mean,I'm. I see that a lot and I'm really
passionate about it. I mean,my own podcast and a lot of the programs
that I do are calledFulfilling Career Happy Life. Because
it is about both. We are whowe are, whether it's in our career,
you know, our work world, orour personal life. Like, you are
(22:04):
who you are. So you can't beunhappy one place and expect to be
happy the other. So something,sometimes something has to get fixed.
And I think, I think one ofthe reasons that it's coming up more
now, because I do see it, ispeople are giving themselves more
permission to think about itand act on it. I actually think the
(22:26):
folks coming into the workworld now are smarter than I was,
than sort of my generation ofthat work world was because we were
head down, do the work, getahead, that kind of thing. And, and
people now are expecting towork for companies that have philanthropic
(22:46):
aspects to it, not work, youknow, 24 7, not travel all the time.
They have a life and they wantto live that life too. So that's
some of the dynamics I thinkare at play. But like all the factors
you mentioned, it's in the airwe breathe. We're in a post Covid
world. There's a lot ofcompanies that were totally remote
that are pulling people backin now. That's a change for people,
(23:09):
and you have to figure outwhat that means for you. The world
is changing, the dynamics arechanging. You know, you have to figure
out what it means for you. Andthat's all the more reason to be
in the driver's seat of yourown career. You can put all those
pieces together in the bestway for yourself. No matter how much
someone has your best interestat heart, you're the one that should
(23:32):
be making those decisions.
Well, and so that brings meback to stating what, what your goals
are, right to your leader.I've been in numerous, you know,
conversations, coachingconversations too, where so like
you, right, I, when I was inmy corporate job in hr, I was in
those talent review orsuccession planning kind of conversations
(23:53):
where we're identifying highpotential leaders. And in my experience,
the leaders who are best ableto, to advocate and speak about and
on behalf of their teammembers know what their team members
want and even on what kind oftimeline they might want it. Now.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean, you know,so let me pause there and say, so
(24:17):
I've, I've had someconversations where I've been talking
to folks coaching folksaround, how do you state your goal
and timeline for that goal?
Right.
I want to be this within thisamount of time while also helping
them understand that that's adialogue too. Your leader might have
a slight difference of opinionon what that timeline might be or
(24:39):
not, but they're going to feela lot better as they're approaching
what your deadline might be.They're going to be more empowered
to either advocate on yourbehalf or provide you with good coaching.
You know, if that time, thatquote, unquote timeline looks like
it might be slipping. But I,I, I right where you are. I think
(25:00):
you were talking about thisearly in our, in our conversation
around, you know, state whatthat goal is, state what you want
and when you want it.
Yeah.
And the first step is you gotto get clear on that goal. And sometimes,
you know, you should revisitit as things change in your life
and whatever, you know, youmay see possibilities you didn't
(25:21):
see before, but, you know,stating like, I've seen people and
I've been in the positionearly in my career, you get asked,
what do you want to do? It'slike, ooh, I should say this, that
kind of thing. Well, you know,you need to figure out what the answer
is for yourself authentically.Now, having said that, there are
(25:43):
times when you encountersomebody that may want to have that
conversation with you thatfor, for whatever reason has proven
that you can't trust them withthat conversation or something. Sometimes
we have to play a little bitof a game, but for the most part,
the more we can know what'strue for us, the better we can advocate
for ourselves and arm oursupporters to carry that message
(26:07):
forward. When I went intoexecutive coaching, I did not expect
the degree to which we'd befocused on the, the inner work. I
thought it would be all thecareer stuff. And the truth is we
do way more inner work than Ithought. Understanding what your
values and drivers are, youknow, understanding the dynamic that
puts you at your best,understanding what kind of boss you
(26:29):
want to work for, those kindsof things. And it's surprising to
me sometimes when I talk topeople about careers and what do
you want? And whatever. AndI'll ask them a question that feels
simple, like, at what age areyou planning to retire? That matters.
Right. And they're, oh, neverthought about that. Okay. And I sort
(26:50):
of suggested them that it maybe time even to make a financial
plan. Now, that's not my areaof expertise. I don't go there. But
I think it's a good idea forpeople to be thinking ahead again.
What is it that you want toget to so you can make choices today
that set that future up for you?
Yeah, yeah.
And what are your whys behindit, too?
Right.
If I probably have said thison a few different. A few different.
(27:13):
Of my episodes now withdifferent folks for different reasons,
which is, you know, I was inthis. In a. In a workshop, and the
guy who was leading it wasjust like, let's talk about, you
know, the layers of your whys.You know, why you're doing what you're
doing. And he. He immediatelyput out there because he's. He's
probably done this so manytimes. He said, if one of your whys
is I want to make gobs ofmoney, that's fine. Put that down.
(27:35):
But why do you want to makegobs of money?
Right.
And why do you want that?
Right.
And so getting really clear onwhat your whys are.
Right.
So that, again, I think it'sjust one more of those pieces to.
I'll use your words. Thathelps you step into the driver's
seat.
Right?
Yeah. You know, money is aninteresting topic because money is
not just money. Like, I canopen my, you know, my stock portfolio
(28:00):
statement and see what my networth is, or, you know, I could see
what my salary is or obviouslytrack what my business is bringing
in. In. But, yeah, why is thatimportant? What does it mean to you?
And I do have thatconversation with people if they're
looking for a new job. Say,okay, what are your expectations
for salary? What's yourhurdle? What do you need to make
that move? And sometimes it'sin dollars and sometimes it's in
(28:23):
percentage over where I am.Okay, the next question is, what's
going to be different in yourlife when you achieve that? Because
then they can think aboutthat. Why? And, you know, for some
people, it's, well, it's alittle bit more security or it's
more money in my kid's collegefund or, you know, I support an elderly
parent. Whatever it is, it'sthe thing that the money will enable
(28:47):
them to do. And sometimes eventhe way they define themselves as
a result of it, I'm the personthat can help other people or whatever
that is. It's way more thanjust money.
Yeah, yeah.
So what else? When it comes togetting people to step into the driver's
seat, what are some of theother conversations you're having
and nudges you're making?
Yeah, it's interesting becauseI mentioned before that some people
(29:11):
will come to me at a time whenthey're considering a job transition.
In fact, when I see potentialnew clients, very often they present
with some version of. And whatI my own experience was I used to
be just really excited by myjob and now I'm just exhausted by
it. Like, I got to figure thisout. So we dig into what is working
(29:34):
for you, what's not workingfor you, so that sometimes what they
find is the things that aren'tworking for me. I can change right
where I am. Because very oftenthere's good either career or financial
reasons to stay where you are.So if you know what it is, you might
be able to fix it. And on theother hand, if you decide you have
to leave, you know what tolook for and what to avoid. So I
(29:58):
would say getting really clearon that is helpful. And in fact,
I have a tool, free tool thatpeople can download from my website.
It's under. My website isRandy with Randy with an I randy
roberts coaching.com and ifyou go to the resource section, you'll
see the career satisfactionassessment. And it just can walk
(30:19):
you through a way to sort ofidentify for yourself what is working,
what's not working so that youknow if you can fix it where you
are or if you need to go andmake sure you're not not taking the
problem with you.
Nice.
So I think that's. That's agreat way to start. And then the
other. Another big suggestionI have is talk to somebody else.
(30:40):
We tend to get all up in ourheads about these things. We may
not talk it out. We may notshare other ideas. And something
really unlocks when youverbalize this stuff, you talk it
out with someone who willlisten and, and tell you the truth
and maybe add other ideas tothe mix. Something changes. So don't
(31:00):
get locked in and think youhave to solve this yourself. Get
some help. You have. You know,it could be a spouse or partner.
It could be a former boss, itcould be a peer, it could be a college
friend, whatever. There'ssomeone in your world that will engage
in that with you, and there'salways something to be gained by
it. Then you take whateverhappened and you get back in the
(31:21):
driver's seat and you figureout what you're going to do with
it.
Yeah. Sometimes you. You'd besurprised what unlocks when you have
to hear yourself say certainthings out loud.
Yeah, I mean, I. I don't knowif you have this experience, Kent,
but I do fairly frequentlywhere I'll have a conversation, you'll
have a session. My sessionswith clients are usually 50 minutes.
(31:42):
We may get all the way throughto the end of the session, and they'll
say something lovely like,randy, you always help me so much.
I feel so much better. You're.You're wonderful. And I'll say, you
know, that feels great tohear. I really appreciate it. And
do you realize that of this 50minutes, you talked 42 minutes or
whatever, like they should be.They are talking it through, almost
(32:03):
having a conversation withthemselves, with an active partner
there, and they have gottenthemselves to the right place. So
it's just that magic that.That happens when you talk it out
with a trusted partner.
Yeah. And I would say if, youknow, if you're listening to this
call or call this podcastepisode and you are, you know, coaching
(32:25):
other people, either as acoach or HR or senior leader. Also
the power of, like,paraphrasing back to people what
they just said. Because I alsowould say, sometimes hearing someone
else say what you've justsaid, too, helps you hear it in a
different way, too. It's like,oh. I think a favorite saying of
(32:45):
mine is like, oh, when you sayit back to me in English, that sounds
like this. Yeah.
I mean, a lot of times my goto is some version of. So what I
hear you saying is this.
Yeah.
And encapsulating it in thatway. Yeah, it's very helpful.
Yeah.
Well, so, you know, I thinkwe're getting to, I think, even some
(33:08):
advice here. So I'm going topush us into the advice column here
and say so as we're. And itcan be about getting in the driver's
seat or something else,something that's kind of on your
mind. But what's one big pieceof advice you have today for leaders
who might be listening?
Yeah. So I'm going to give twopieces. They're related, and it's
really for leaders of leaders,because you're developing people
(33:29):
that may have, they'reimpacting others and they may have
the opportunity to step intoeven bigger roles. All these things
that we're talking about aswe're leading, we're modeling that.
So sometimes that's the bestteacher is, you know, people see
you walking your talk. And oneway to take that to an even greater
(33:51):
degree is my own coach says,like, narrate the situation sometimes
when, you know, in, when I wasin the world or I have clients now
of managing leaders. So you'reat least a second third line manager.
Talk them through thedecisions you're trying to make,
how you're breaking it down,what you may be struggling with.
(34:13):
That process not only helpsyou to work it through, but it brings
them along the journey withyou. They may help you with a solution.
They will understand where youare and it helps them be more ready
when they're in that seat. Sothose would be the suggestions that
I would have. Have. What, whatdo you have to add to that?
(34:34):
I, you know, I think I said ita few times through the call.
Right.
Is, is have careerconversations with your people intentionally
and, you know, at least acouple times a year.
Right.
At least every six months. Youknow, if you haven't never had a
big career conversation withsomeone, we'll have that.
Right.
And then the next one doesn'thave to be as big. And as for. Right.
(34:57):
It can be, it can be a littlemore informal and more of a check
in.
Right.
Yeah.
Hey, this is, you know, thisis what you said you were interested
in six months ago. How's thatfeeling today? How you know, is that
still what you're thinking?Are there other things you're thinking?
That's what I, I think Iwould, I would continue to push people
to have more regular, youknow, open conversations about what
(35:18):
people, you know, what peoplewant to be when they grow up.
Right.
I think that sends the messagethat I care about you. You. I want
to help you get what you want.So I think there's every reason to
do that.
Yeah.
So for, and I know you, yougave a bit of advice for those like
senior leaders who aresupporting leaders. But let me go
to the next, you know, whichis a piece of advice you have for
(35:38):
those who support leaders. Soit could be another piece of advice
for senior leaders or say HRor coaches out there.
Yeah. I think getting curiousis a tremendous leadership tool.
And sometimes we hear thingsin a certain way and if you ask a
few questions, you know, tellme more about that, what does that
(36:00):
mean? How does that show up?Whatever it is. You can understand
better where they're comingfrom and they can understand better
where they're coming frombecause we have, you know, thinkers
have a tremendous skill atgetting in our own way. And so sometimes
getting the next question,like forcing ourselves to sort of
(36:20):
double click on it, if youwill, what is the why behind this?
As you said, get curious aboutwhat they're telling you. I think
that can really unlock somethings, so you experience it for
yourself, you model it forothers. It just, it. It sets up the
situation to better match up.What does a person offer and what
(36:41):
do they want with what can weprovide for them? So, you know, it's
all good. And again, if thematch isn't there, better to find
out and let the person, youknow, find their bliss where they
need to and get someone in therole that better fits, you know,
what, what success will looklike in your company.
Nice. Nice. Awesome. Well, so,you know, as we're kind of on our
(37:05):
way out here, for those whoare looking for a little more Randy
Rob Roberts in their lives,you know, how can they find you?
Where should they find you?What should they reach out to you
about?
Yeah, thanks for asking.Probably the best way to find me
is through my website. Andagain, that's Randy R A N D I robertscoaching.com
there's the careersatisfaction test that I mentioned
(37:28):
on my resource section.There's episodes of all my own podcasts,
which is again, fulfillingcareer habits, happy life. That's
also on YouTube. If you get onmy email list, you'll get some some
other things. So lots of waysfor those poor folks that want more
Randy Roberts in their life.
Awesome. Well, I'll make sureto put all of those in the show notes
for today. Randy, thank youfor coming on the podcast. This is
(37:51):
a fun conversation and I hopewe can do it again in the future.
Yeah, I'd enjoy it, Kent.Thanks so much for having me.
All right, that brings us tothe end of our episode. Thanks for
listening.
Listening.
I'd encourage you to head onover to my website, Kent Coach, and
start a conversation with methere. Or check out my promotion
playbook at Kent CoachPlaybook. Before you go on with your
day, I ask that you pleasetake a moment to leave a rating and
(38:12):
a review wherever you listento podcasts. Five stars. That helps
put this podcast in front ofmore eyes and ears. Until next time,
take it easy.
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