July 29, 2025 • 42 mins
Andy Storch is an author, consultant, coach, speaker and facilitator on a mission to get the most out of life and inspire others to do the same.
He is the author of the book, Own Your Career Own Your Life, which is designed to help professionals stop drifting and take control of their futures.
Andy is also the host of three podcasts, including The Talent Development Hot Seat; Own Your Career; and My NFT Journey. He is the co-founder and host of The Talent Development Think Tank Conference and Community as well as the host of the Talent Development Virtual Summit.
Today, we're diving into the concept of owning your career and why it’s crucial for finding happiness at work. Our guest, Andy Storch, shares some solid wisdom on how taking charge of our career paths can lead to greater fulfillment. He believes that while not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur, everyone wants to feel satisfied in their job. We chat about the importance of self-awareness, continuous learning, and building a personal brand, all while navigating the sometimes murky waters of corporate culture. So, if you're looking to step up your career game and find out how to make your work life more enjoyable, this episode is packed with tips and insights to get you on the right track. Buckle up, folks; it’s gonna be a good ride!
Diving deep into the world of career ownership, Andy Storch and Kent Kniebel share their insights on what it truly means to be in the driver’s seat of your own professional journey. Andy, a seasoned author and consultant, reflects on his own winding career path—from aspiring athlete to corporate consultant to entrepreneur. He emphasizes that while not everyone is cut out to run their own business, everyone deserves to find joy and fulfillment in their work. The duo discusses the importance of taking intentional steps toward career happiness and fulfillment, advocating for a proactive approach where individuals own their career trajectories. They tackle the common corporate culture of waiting for promotions or guidance, highlighting the need for both employees and leaders to foster open communication about career aspirations. Andy's framework encourages continuous learning, networking, and building a personal brand, which are essential for anyone looking to thrive in today’s ever-evolving job market. The episode wraps with practical advice for leaders: to nurture their teams by encouraging self-advocacy and curiosity, ultimately creating a more engaged and motivated workforce.
Takeaways:
- Owning your career means taking charge of your happiness and fulfillment; it's key to long-term success.
- Not everyone dreams of being a big shot entrepreneur, but everyone wants career satisfaction, am I right?
- To thrive in your career, invest in continuous learning, build your network, and create your personal brand.
- Leaders should empower their teams by encouraging open conversations about career paths and aspirations, not just promotions.
Links for today's show:
• Andy Storch's Linked In Page
• Own your Career, Own Your Life Book
**Music for this podcast comes from the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on PertNeaerSandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.**
*Editing...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
I realized through doing thatwork, building a business around
my strengths and then talkingto clients about it in the corporate
space, that not everybodywants to be an entrepreneur, but
I think everybody does want tofeel like they're happy and fulfilled
in their career. My theory isthat most people have a better chance
of feeling happy and fulfilledif they're taking ownership of their
career, if they're beingintentional with what they're doing,
(00:26):
where they're going. And so Ifelt like with all the work that
I did, the studying I did, Ihad a framework that I could use
to help other people with that.
Hi there and welcome to theStep Up Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
(00:48):
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing. As a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
(01:08):
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everyone.Today we are talking about owning
your own career and a leader'srole in that. And with me for that
conversation today is AndyStorch, author of Own youn Career,
(01:32):
Own youn your Life, speaker,podcaster, cyclist, expat, living
in Spain, all around greatguy, and welcome to the podcast today.
Well, Ken, thank you so much.It's cool that we, we met not that
long ago, just a few monthsback, and we've gotten to know each
other pretty well already and,you know, all the things that I'm
known for. Let's see, let'ssee what we can get into this.
(01:53):
In this session, I think I wasgonna say, I think we can almost
see all the things I talkedabout in the background, including
your bike. But, you know,we'll see what the final video version
looks like. I love to juststart with because I just feel it's
interesting for people to hearcareer paths. So I'd love to have
you talk a little bit aboutyour career path and how you ended
(02:14):
up doing what you're doing today.
Well, yeah, my career path hasbeen meandering and winding with
lots of stops and starts. Likemany people, right? Especially in
the corporate world, when Iwas growing up, I wanted to be a
professional baseball player.That was my dream. I grew up playing
lots of sports, especiallybaseball, and I talk about that in
my book and often in mykeynotes, because I was a decent
player, but not that great.But I never really had a clear plan
(02:37):
for how I was going to getthere. And I ended up quitting at
15, which is a bit of amindset issue that I get into, which
I changed later on. And then Ireally thought I wanted to be a civil
engineer. I was really intoroads and bridges in high school
and did well in calculus andphysics. But when I got to college,
I ran into chemistry class.And even though chemistry is not
really needed to be a civilengineer, it was one requirement
(02:58):
and I just couldn't do it.Partly because my mind is more geared
for physics and calculus andless geared for chemistry. And also
because I joined a fraternityand I was out partying every night.
So it was sort of like acombination between those things.
I ended up switching majors, Igot into more of computers and business,
but I was still really justkind of having fun. And I took the
only job I could find out ofcollege, which was like a management
(03:20):
training program at aretailer, not something I really
enjoyed. And then I kind ofdiscovered this idea of entrepreneurship
and I. I tied my hand at acouple of different startup ideas.
Nothing that really workedvery well. Bounced around in some
different jobs. Ended upmoving from Florida, where I grew
up, to California, SouthernCalifornia, with my fiance at the
time, now wife, because shewanted to get into TV and I wanted
(03:42):
to just live somewhere else.And I again tried a few different
startups because I thought Iwanted to be some type of entrepreneur
connected with that. Nothingreally worked out too well. So a
friend got me a job in theinsurance industry. I ended up going
back to school to get my MBAbecause I wasn't terribly happy or
fulfilled. And then I got alucky break one day and a friend
(04:02):
connected me with a job withan insurance. Insurance with a. With
a consulting company calledbts, which was sort of my foray into
the training and developmentspace because even though they called
it consulting, we werebuilding and running custom business
simulations for companiesaround the world. And it ended up
being kind of a dream job forme because I discovered these strengths
(04:22):
that I didn't know I hadbefore, like speaking in front of
a room, facilitatingworkshops, talking to people, connecting
with people, networking I hadstarted to get really into, but I
never had a job that reallyconnected to that or, you know, where
I benefited from my ability todo that. I had been in these analytical
jobs before that were allbased on, like, being good at spreadsheets
(04:43):
and stuff that I was okay at,but not great. And so I was often
frustrated. And then. And so Iwas doing fairly well, enjoying that
job, traveling all over theworld. And I really got a chance
to work with lots of differentleaders, big companies. I learned
a lot. About what? Aboutstrategy, about business acumen,
about success, aboutleadership. I also observed a lot
of people kind of driftingthrough their careers, operating
(05:05):
in reaction mode, waiting forsomeone to tell them what to do or
where to go. And not to saythat they couldn't be, quote, unquote,
successful, move up theladder, right, make more money, get
into a VP position in acompany. But that doesn't mean they
were always happy. In fact,many of them I felt like were not.
And I filed that away. And asI started to get drawn back into
the idea of becoming anentrepreneur, really starting in
(05:28):
2016, I discovered the worldof personal development. And I started
doing a lot of selfreflection, a lot of reading and
studying and listening topodcasts like this one to learn as
much as I can about all thethings that were out there. And I
got drawn back into this ideaof being an entrepreneur because
I think I have a strong valuetowards like autonomy and independence
and things like that. Irealized through doing that work
(05:50):
and building a business aroundmy strengths and then talking to
clients about it in thecorporate space that not everybody
wants to be an entrepreneur,but I think everybody does want to
feel like they're happy andfulfilled in their career. And my
theory is that most peoplehave a better chance of feeling happy
and fulfilled if they'retaking ownership of their career,
if they're being intentionalwith what they're doing, where they're
(06:12):
going. And so I felt like withall the work that I did, the studying
I did, I had a framework thatI could use to help other people
with that. And thus my bookwas born, own your career, own your
life, which I wrote andpublished in 2020. And I've been
building a career and abusiness around the book and my content
and the things that I know andI believe I can help other people
(06:34):
with ever since then.
Nice, nice. I like it. I hada. I feel like we have a couple points
of similarity in our path. Ithink I fell into sort of the leadership
development and, you know,talent management space a little,
little faster, but I did, Idid a couple years stint in back
(06:54):
office insurance, not notsales, but in the back office before
weirdly starting my career inconsulting, you know, before then
going into HR and back toconsulting. But I think I've had
that similar, similar drawback to, you know, the consulting
space. So I want to startpivoting us into the topic because,
interestingly, I think what'sfascinated me about your book and
(07:19):
what you talk about quite abit around owning your own career
is my own observations fromparticularly my time in hr, you know,
and a couple of the positionsI've had were in pretty old companies
who had been around for a longtime. And I would say an interesting
similarity between my prior,you know, two prior employers to
(07:43):
now, interestingly, was thismentality of. Or this culture originating
culture of sort of waiting tobe tapped on the shoulder and told,
you know, what your next rolewas going to be or what you should
do next. And, and seeing bothof these organizations at different
stages in their recentmaturity kind of open up and try
(08:08):
to make this. This or make.Not just try, but make this pivot
from you're waiting around tobe tapped on the shoulder to encouraging
employees to own your owncareer, having an actual system where
they can apply to jobsinternally. So I've definitely been
a part of, on the inside, youknow, trying to encourage this own
your own career mentality. Sowhat, what kind of, I mean, I think
(08:31):
your own career story oftrying a lot of things probably is
part of what brought you tothis. But I'd be curious, you know,
what other, what other thingssort of led you into thinking about
and writing and now speakingabout this topic?
Yeah, well, you're right inthat I think a lot of companies are
starting to say we want ourpeople to own their careers. We want
(08:53):
more career mobility. That is,if they're a larger company, let's
say, with at least 3, 5,10,000 employees, we want people
to move around and take ondifferent roles. That way they feel
like they're getting lots ofdifferent opportunities for different
types of careers, but theystay under one roof and keep their
knowledge here. The problem isyou can create all the resources
in the world, but if you don'tteach and show people how to take
(09:14):
ownership, how to beintentional, how to go out using
those resources, they won'tmatter. And you know that from being,
you know, inside. Of course,what I observed, you know, especially
going back to my consultingdays, is that just as you said, a
lot of people have, you know,grown up and been taught that the
way you are successful in lifeis that you work hard and you put
(09:36):
your head down, and you waitfor someone to reward you for that.
And you don't brag about thework that you've done because nobody
likes, you know, a boastfulperson with a big ego, that sort
of thing. But the problem is,and that does work sometimes, but
the problem is a lot, youknow, a lot of times we're either
not recognized for the workwe're doing because, you know, someone
else gets the credit, or theboss is really busy and doesn't notice.
(09:57):
Another big problem is that,and I hear this all the time from
leaders, from managers, thereason they don't sit down and have
a career conversation with theperson on their team is because they
think, well, I don't have apromotion for them, so I'm not going
to have this conversation. Butit might be that the person on the
other end of the, you know,the other side doesn't want a promotion.
They actually want to dosomething completely different. And
(10:18):
nobody knows what they want orwhat you want until you're willing
to have that conversation,right? To be proactive and come to
your manager and say, yeah, Iwork in sales or I work in it now,
but I really love the peopleside of things. I'm kind of interested
in getting to hr. No one wouldknow that unless you, you know, you
spoke up and had thatconversation. And so a lot of people
don't know what you want.There's a lot of stuff going on in
the world. There's a lot ofdistractions. And so more and more,
(10:41):
I think it's really importantthat people think about building
their personal brand, which isin the middle part of my book. I
talk about three things youcan always be doing to set yourself
up for future success. Thefirst is investing in continuous
learning. The second isbuilding your network. And the third
is building your personalbrand. Because we can't rely on just
doing great work, workinghard, and hoping that somebody notices.
We've got to think about howdo we make sure that we are recognized
(11:03):
for the things that we'vedone, for the things that we know,
for our talents and ourskills. And if you're lucky, you
have a great manager whorecognizes your strengths and creates
some type of role for youaround those strengths. But I've
had roles in the past goingback to my time in the insurance
industry, where I recognizedmy own strengths. And I went to my
manager and said, hey, can wecreate something where I can leverage
(11:23):
more of my strengths? And hesaid something to the effect of,
no, your job is X analyzingspreadsheets. I Don't care if you're
good with people, get back towork analyzing spreadsheets. And
not every manager is likethat, but most are kind of, I think,
in the middle where they'renot really going to recognize that
because they're just notthinking about it until you speak
up and say, hey, I reallyenjoy doing this type of work. Can
(11:45):
I do more of that work whichwill benefit both me and the organization.
I like that. And you've hit ona couple things here that I want
to dig into for folks outthere who are working on their leadership
skills. Right. And becominggreat leaders, better leaders. We
get into having good careerand development conversations with
(12:10):
people. And the first thingyou said was around, you know, leaders
feeling like, well, I don'thave a promotion. And I think a similar,
similar, you know, along asimilar vein, I hear leaders say,
have this hesitance aroundhaving certain career conversations
given fear of, like, I don'twant to make promises that I can't
keep. Right. And, and I thinkI've certainly counseled around,
(12:35):
well, you don't need to make apromise. You know, you can actually
be quite transparent and say,you know what you can and can't promise
and.
Right.
But I'd be curious, sort of,when you think about the role that
leaders can play in having atleast these initial transparent conversations,
what are some of the thingsthat you're thinking about and talking
(12:56):
to companies about?
Well, I think that forleaders, first of all, my philosophy
on leadership is thatleadership at its core is all about
enabling and empowering peopleto succeed both in their jobs today
and their career long term.Now every, just about every manager,
every boss says, like, sure, Iwant my people to be successful in
their job today because I wantthe job to be successful. So it reflects
(13:17):
well on me. The worst of thelot, of course, are not even wanting
their people to be successfulin that job. But the best managers
and leaders are also thinkingabout, how do I help my people be
successful long term in theircareers, even if that means leaving
my team and going doingsomething different outside of this
company or inside of thiscompany, something that they love,
(13:38):
because if they do that,they're going to remember me fondly.
It's going to reflect well onmy personal brand and my reputation.
More people are going to wantto work for me. And quite frankly,
it's an important part of yourlegacy that you are helping other
people, which I think that'swhat leadership is all about. Right.
Problem is, like you said, alot of managers are maybe afraid
to have that Conversationbecause they think, well, I don't
(14:00):
know. If I don't have apromotion for them, I don't have
the answer for them. I don'twant to promise.
I don't think they can get.Or, like, I don't think they can
get there.
Yeah. Or I don't think thatthey're. They're good. They're good
enough for it. Like. And it isa hard conversation to have. But
what I always remind peopleis, like, you got to start first
and foremost with curiosityand empathy. If you just lead with
curiosity. Right? Many peopleknow the book the Coaching Habit
(14:23):
by Michael Bungay Stander,who's a friend of mine, been on my
podcast many, multiple times.You know, he talks about quelling
the advice monster and nottrying to speak too much and just
lead with curiosity. Ask thequestion, how do you feel things
are going, Ken? Like, where doyou see yourself going in your career?
What would you like to bedoing more of? What would you really
like to be doing one day? Andthey might say something that you
(14:44):
can't help with or you don'tthink that they're capable of, and
then you can say, well, Idon't know how to help you get there,
or, let's see if we can findthat out together. Or, it's great
that you. You want to be amanager one day. Quite frankly, I
don't feel like you're quitemeeting the expectations for that
joint yet, but let's put aplan together to help you get there.
Now that we've had thatconversation, right, let's talk about
(15:06):
how we could potentially makethat possible, or maybe it's not
possible, and let's talk aboutother options. But the worst thing
you can do is just have noconversation at all. So many people
are afraid. I think one of thebiggest problems with managers, leaders
for managers and leaders todayis they feel like they have to have
all the answers when you and Iknow that's absolutely not true.
(15:28):
And in fact, I think more andmore when I ask people about what
they want from leaders, fromtheir manager, they tell me things
like, I want them to be morehuman. I just want to know that I'm
working for a real person. Iwant them to be honest and authentic,
and it's okay to say, hey, Idon't have all the answers to this,
but that's actually why wehave this team here. That's why I
have you. Like, let's lookinto this together so that it doesn't
(15:48):
rely entirely on you. And,like, let's figure out a plan. And
just remember the goal is toenable and empower people to be successful
both on their job today andtheir career long term. And if you
keep that as kind of yourNorth Star, and it doesn't mean just
nice and fluffy. Right. Like,do whatever you can to help people
and it doesn't matter, like,obviously we have a job to get done,
(16:08):
we have goals. Accountabilityis really, really important. But
also always just thinking, howcan I help people be successful long
term? It's going to benefiteverybody so much.
Yeah. It does require somelevel of courage for a leader, to
be honest. Right. However, Iwould also argue if there is feedback
to someone about how you'renot seeing whatever the skills are
(16:33):
or performance level that'saligned with what they're telling
you is where they want to go,there's probably some feedback in
there that you should beproviding, whether or not. Or having
a career conversation. Right.So on the one hand, while there's
like some courage that'srequired, I would also just go so
far as to say it's kind ofyour job to be able to, you know,
(16:54):
provide that feedback.
Right.
And. And, yeah, don't make apromise. And I like, I like how you're
putting that because it's verysimilar to how, what I, what I tell
to leaders, what I say toleaders, too, which is, there's a
really interestingconversation to have in there. If
someone's telling you, here'swhat I want to do for you to say,
you know, today I'm not seeingthat. Right. And why is it, Is it
a specific experience set?
(17:14):
Yeah.
You know, is it, you know, youjust, you have not been in the field.
Right. Or is it a, you know,is it a performance issue? You know,
I'm not seeing that level of hustle.
Yeah.
Today that's, that's typicallyrequired. Interestingly, one place
that I've taken it to is. AndI'd be. I'd be curious what your
reaction to this is. Is I kindof, even in an internal role, I have
(17:36):
leaned in on competition.Right. Like, let's talk about what,
you know, what happens when anopening comes around is there's multiple
people applying for it andwhat would make you the most competitive
applicant. Right. And I think,like, you know.
Yeah.
Putting. Yeah. Putting it backon them a little bit. I'd be curious,
like, you know, do you lean inon that?
(17:58):
I think that's a good, I thinkthat's a good way to go. Because
I would, I would want to comeback. Because you don't want to give
advice unless they're askingfor it. I think you want to be realistic,
right. If people ask forsomething that you know is not quite
possible right away, at thesame time, I don't ever want to,
like, crush anybody's dreamseither. So, like, let's talk about
what's possible. Like, if youtold me, Kent, right now, hey, my
(18:19):
goal is for my podcast to benumber one in the world at the end
of next year, and I want tohave Adam Grant on as my next guest,
I'd be.
Like, how did you know?
Listen, given that you juststarted a few months ago, right?
And my estimation is, like,your level of investment in this
is similar to mine, which is,like, you're serious about it, but
you're not investing, like,thousands of dollars in, like, a
production studio and all thisstuff, to me, that the goals feel
(18:43):
a little bit unlikely, butit's not impossible. Let's talk about
how are you going to get AdamGrant? I mean, you got me, so that's
a pretty nice step, right towards.
But, like, I think.
So how are you going to makethe next step to someone who charges,
let's say, six times what I dofor a keynote talk and is infinitely
more popular? It's, again, notimpossible if you have the right
connection. Let's talk abouthow we could get there. What do you
(19:04):
think needs to be done andsimilar with, like, okay, you want
to move to hr? You want to geta promotion next year? Like, how
do you think you stack upright now? What do you think is possible?
And unfortunately, some peopleare delusional. Right? They'll be
like, well, I think I'm doinga great job. And you're like, well,
let's look at the track recordand see, and let's talk about this.
And of course, there are goingto be some hard conversations, and
(19:24):
you do have to have somecourage, and you do have to get past
some of the awkwardnesssometimes. But that is part of being
a manager, being a leader inthis world.
Yeah. Well. And I think moreand more, I find that your immediate
supervisor usually is not theperson who's making the call on that
next step. Right. If you areinterested. So I think they're, you
know, I think leaders need toalso give themselves permission to
(19:44):
say, I'm not the one who'sgonna make that decision. Let me
talk to you about, like, howdo I help you with the time that
we have together? You know,make you as competitive as we can.
Right.
But the thing is, like, Ithink so often we're, you Know, a
lot of times leaders ormanagers are afraid, well, I, you
know, I don't want to go intothis because I don't have a promotion
for them, because we assumethat everybody wants to move up.
(20:07):
But I mean, you know, thiscan't you. But more than 50% of the
people you talk to are goingto say, when you ask, what do you
want to do in your career?They're going to say something to
the effect of, well, like, I'mpretty happy doing this work. If
I could do a little bit morethat leverages my strengths, get
a raise every year and notwork more than 50 hours a week so
that I can, you know, spendtime with my family, I'm pretty happy.
A lot of people don't want tomove into a manager role. They don't
(20:28):
want more responsibility.Right. That's only for certain people.
So not everybody is lookingfor that, that promotion. Everybody
wants different things. Andthat's why you got to start with
the curiosity and ask, like,what do you want to do in your career?
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Iwould say coming out of the pandemic,
too, and perhaps the researchis still early on this, but we're
also hearing, you know, thatpeople are starting to opt out of
(20:51):
leadership a little bit,right, that, that this crucible experience,
right, that everybody wentthrough trying to balance everything,
working from home, you know,all of that, it opened up a lot of
people's eyes to what pluswhat plus what equals just life fulfillment
and not just job fulfillment.So I think some people are even starting
(21:15):
to consciously opt. Step offthe leadership track, essentially.
And on top of that, I wouldsay to the HR folks listening, I
think we can all admit that,especially when you're early on in
your HR career, the, theconcept that not everybody wants
to be promoted and isinterested in career growth can sometimes
be feel like kind of theantithesis of everything that we're
(21:36):
doing and talking about. Butit's like, yeah, but I mean, there's,
you know, there's billions ofpeople out there. There's lots of
roles out there. We need allof them done. And if every single
person and every singleindividual contributor role wanted
onto the leadership track,first of all, we'd have a, have to
have a whole lot more hardconversations because there's only
so many roles and it's fewerevery level up. Yeah, right. And
(22:00):
so I think there's always thisneeding to remember that, yeah, not
everybody wants or even hasthe same level of desire for promotion
or the same level they'relooking at for promotion eventually.
But you said one thing I wantto come back to, which I think is
really important too. Andcertainly in my own career coaching,
I've leveraged this. But Ithink for leaders out there who are
(22:24):
coaching or even careercoaches out there who are coaching
is to. For career coachingperspectives is. And I think you've
leaned into this. I want topick on it because I have a feeling
you've got a thought andopinion on this, which is really
getting into. Let's step awayfrom the roles and the title conversation
for a minute, the levelconversations, and let's talk about
(22:45):
what you like. You know, whatare. What is it that you're good
at? What are you not good at?What are the things you tend to avoid?
What's there to learn from thethings you're avoiding, to have more
of this. Like, let's talkabout the elements, you know, what
you do day in and day out andmaybe start to piece it together,
you know.
Yeah.
In the Lego bricks that way tokind of think about what you might
(23:06):
want to do.
100%. I mean, I start my bookand my keynotes with the foundation
to owning your career is firstand foremost in taking full responsibility
for your career and your life.Right. And not outsourcing that to
other people. But second ofall is in self awareness. And self
awareness starts with selfreflection, which is taking time
to really get to knowyourself. Your strengths, your weaknesses,
(23:27):
your values, your energizers,what you care about, what you love
about your career, what youdon't like, what you might want to
do differently. And in thissuper quote busy world where we've
got like distractions all thetime, right? Text messages, social
media notifications, emails,plenty of work to do if you have
a significant other and youhave pets and you have kids and like,
they always want things fromyou. There's. And social media, there's
(23:48):
always things to do. And sorarely people do. People take time
to just sit and reflect, butit's a good exercise to sit down
and think about what are thosethings that you're good at and you're
not good at. And by the way,everybody knows what their weaknesses
are. Most people don't taketime to really acknowledge their
strengths. And one of thereasons is again, we were, you know,
we were taught not to brag. Wewere taught to, you know, be to.
(24:08):
Humility is a, is a, is avalue. Right. But it's really valuable
to know what your strengthsare and to recognize those. And so
when people do say, you know,hey, Kent, like, you're really good
at this thing. Like, I justreally admire how you synthesize
these things or how you coachpeople instead of just saying, well,
I'm really lucky, or peoplethink if I'm good at something, then
everybody must be good at it.But it's not true. We all have strengths,
(24:31):
just like we all haveweaknesses, right? So I know the
things that I'm good at. Iknow what my limitations are. And
when you know your strengths,then you can start to maybe build
a career that's a little bitmore based around those. For example,
earlier in my career, I was inanalytical roles and I was using
Excel a lot. And I'm. I'mdecent with a spreadsheet, but I
wouldn't say it's like one ofmy big strengths. At the me. At the
(24:53):
same time, I was, like, alwaysorganizing lunches and happy hours
with people, right? And so oneof my strengths is in connecting
and networking and buildingrelationships. The problem at that
time was I was in a role whereit wasn't valued. And I actually
thought that it was somethingthat was almost a weakness in my
career, that I couldn't getmyself to just sit down and focus.
Like, every hour I had to talkto somebody, and it was causing problems
(25:15):
for me. And I thought, this issomething that's always going to
hold me back in my career.Until one day I changed, and I built
a business and a career aroundmy strengths. And now I talk to people
all day, all the time, and Ilove doing it. And it sometimes adds
value to other people, too,right? When I'm speaking or running
a program or something likethat. It just took a little while
to recognize that and to say,hey, maybe I need to pivot and do
(25:38):
something a little bitdifferent that leverages those strengths.
And for some people, thatmight be a complete career shift,
like, kind of was for me. Forothers, it might be just going to
your manager and saying, youknow, hey, I'm doing XYZ right now.
Can we shift this? Is itpossible to shift this 10% so I'm
spending a little bit moretime? Maybe you're the opposite of
me, right? And you lovespreadsheets. You don't like talking
to people. Hey, can I skipthose meetings and just spend more
(26:00):
time doing analytical work? Ifeel like I don't add any value in
those meetings anyway. I'lljust give you a report. They might
be like, yeah, cool, soundsgood. You're really good at the spreadsheets,
whatever it is, but you don'tknow until you have those conversations.
And it's the flip formanagers. I think some of the best
leaders and managers out thereare observing their people and recognizing
what are the strengths thatthey don't even know they have so
(26:22):
they can tap into those more.So I mentioned earlier I had a manager
where I recognized mystrengths. I went to him, asked if
I could spend more time in thefield doing people stuff, and he
said, no, your job isspreadsheets. Get back to work. Later
on, when I was in consulting,I worked for a woman named Jessica
Scone, and she was my boss'sboss. We had a hard conversation
one time where I wasn'tgetting a promotion because I didn't
(26:43):
meet certain requirements. Butat the same time, she recognized
some strengths in me that Ididn't even realize I had on the
sales side. And she offered meand actually created a new role just
for me, based her on mystrengths. And I ended up thriving
there for a couple more yearsbecause she had done that. And because
of that, I wrote about Jessicain my book. I mentioned her sometimes
in keynotes as the best leaderI've ever worked for. And the other
(27:05):
guy, I don't mention him byname at all. Right. They both have
a reputation in my mind, oneperson who held me back and the other
person who accelerated mycareer success. And so, you know,
I posit this to leaders, like,which one do you want to be? Right.
Do you. What do you want yourlegacy to be? Do you want it to be
the person, you know, theleader that people remember because
you helped them accelerate intheir career, or the one that held
them back because you justwanted to get that job done that
(27:27):
day?
I love that. And I would say,because I've worked in companies
big and small, and I wouldencourage leaders to, you know, don't
let size policy, what youassume to be red tape stop you. Right.
Like, as much as you're sayingtoday, Andy, to kind of lean into
these career conversationsfrom a place of curiosity. Lean into
(27:49):
the conversations you need tohave with your leaders, your HR business
partners, also with curiosity.Right. And say, what could be done?
You know, this person has, youknow, really great strengths in these
areas, maybe isn't a greatfit, you know, for this exact role
today, but they'd be ashamed,you know, to lose out on all the
other ways that this personcould contribute. Right. So lean
(28:10):
into those conversations withcuriosity. You said something a couple
times I want to come to, whichis because I, you know, I've done
some work in the DEI spacearound sponsorship. Right. And how
do you. Which Essentially, forthe listener, if you're not familiar
with sponsorship is, in anutshell, it's who's talking about
you positively in rooms you'renot in your career, looking out for
(28:31):
you, advocating foropportunities. And one thing in these
sponsorship programs thatwe've looked at is, well, sometimes,
you know, when we areassigning you a sponsor to get to
know and put you on a pathwayto future sponsorship, sometimes
we're connecting you withsomeone who doesn't know you that
well and might not know yourwork product. So the connection for.
(28:52):
In my brain to what you weresaying was, you know, we don't want
to brag, right? But people doneed to know about your. Your wins,
right. And. And the thingsyou're good at, the. The numbers
you've put on the board. SoI'd be curious. I just want to have
you kind of dig in on that alittle bit, because I'm assuming,
given the number of timesyou've mentioned it, that you've
got some thoughts on, youknow, how do you toot your own horn?
(29:16):
Yeah.
How and how and when. Right.
Well, it is. It's a balancebecause people don't like others
who brag, right. We don't likepeople who think they're better than
us. And. But we want to knowwhat people are good at and what
they're capable of. And so ifI ask you, Kent, like, hey, what
do you. What are you reallygood at? I want to be able to refer
you or support you and yourbusiness. I don't want you to just
(29:38):
say, well, I'm actually. I'mnot that good at anything. Like,
you know, that's. It's humble,but it doesn't help me at all. Right.
I'd rather you. So onequestion I might ask, or a question
you could ask yourself is,what are you really proud of? Right.
In your career, what are youreally proud of? What have you accomplished
that you're really proud of?And you can say, well, I'm really
proud of this project that Icompleted because I put a lot of
(30:00):
effort into it, and I feltlike we did a really great job with
it. We exceeded all theexpectations. And yeah, I had help
from my team, but I was a bigpart of this and I led this team,
or I was worked on this partof it. I'm really proud that I'm
leading this meeting everyThursday, and people seem to feel
like it's engaging againwithout coming up and saying, like,
I'm the best in the world,because nobody likes that. But can
(30:23):
you say I'm really proud thatI've accomplished these things, that
I've developed strong skillsin these areas. You know, I'm really
proud personally that I'vepublished a book, I've built a business
around it, I've spoken onstages and in front of thousands
of people, that I've hosted apodcast for seven years and published
over a thousand episodes. Do Ithink I'm the best podcaster in the
world or the best speaker inthe world? No. I'm always learning.
(30:45):
I'm always trying to getbetter. But I'm very proud of these
things that I've accomplished.And I want to be known as an expert
in career development. I wantto be known as a great keynote speaker.
I want to be known a bit as acyclist, even though when I go out
cycling, you mentioned itearlier, when I go out cycling with
other people, I'm usually oneof the slower ones, but at least
I'm out there doing it, and Idon't mind people knowing about it.
It's part of my personalbrand. It's part of who I am. Right.
(31:07):
And so I think we can talkabout the things that we do, the
things that we like doing, thethings that we're good at, the things
that we want to be recognizedfor and known for and. And say, yeah,
like, I'm proud of the thingsthat I've accomplished without going
too far and saying, oh, I'mthe best in the world at it and I'm
better than you. Like, you'renot going to say that, but I think
you can be. You're allowed tobe proud of things. And I think people
(31:28):
like that. I think theyappreciate that.
I like that. That's a goodangle. And it sounds even like when
you think about interviewprep, right. When you're interviewing
for a job internally orexternally, right. You need to be
able to talk about what you'veaccomplished. And I like the angle
that you've put on it, around,like, what are you proud of? Right.
(31:48):
How can you talk about thingsyou've done and what you're really
proud of having accomplished?So I think that's a great angle to
put on it because I think Ifind people over index on. On being
humble internally and nottalking about, you know, what are
some of the things thatthey've done, you know, the. The
metaphorical or real, ifyou're in sales, right. Numbers that
(32:10):
you've put on the board. Butif. If you're relying on others to
always tell your story foryou, you know, you might be outsourcing
too much of that. Right. And,you know, so finding those. Those
opportunistic and appropriate.Right. Moments, especially when you're.
When you're. When you'rethinking about senior leaders in
(32:31):
the organization who may havea hand in your future. Right.
Yeah. And the other thing youdo, connect it back to the strengths.
And I've done a lot of work onthis for myself because I used to
have a hard time both givingand receiving compliments and is
to notice when peoplecompliment you on certain things
and practice accepting it andjust saying thank you instead of.
Right. Instead of, you know,pushing it off and be like, well,
(32:53):
I just got lucky. Like, oh,Kent, you know, Andy, you did a really
great job on this thing now. Ijust got lucky. You know, I had a
team. Great. I got lucky and Iwas on a great team. Right. And that
might be the case, but maybeyou did work hard on it. You could
just say thank you. I workedreally hard on that. Thank you. This
is a skill that I've beendeveloping for a long time. Or, you
know, whatever it is. Like,sometimes you might be lucky, but
just acknowledge that you diddo work on that and say thank you.
(33:17):
And I think you peopleappreciate that too, because I've
also heard that when you sortof push off a compliment from somebody,
it's like someone wrapping agift and giving it to you, and you're
like, I don't want that. And,you know, you just batted away. I
want people to receive thecompliments that I give to them.
And so I try to get better atreceiving compliments people give
to me.
I. I love that. And I've kindof done the same thing, which is.
(33:40):
And I think part of thestruggle for me was like, well, I
don't know what to say.
Yeah.
When someone. Awkwardcomplimenting me. But I found it,
like, the more I've just keptit simple and just said, like, oh,
thanks. You know, like, evenjust that. Right. Like, has made
it easier to both personallyaccept a compliment, which may or
may not be difficult for me.Yeah. But also just because I think
(34:03):
to your point, right.Acknowledging that this person is
taking a moment to praise youand, you know.
And it's awkward because wedon't like being put on a pedestal.
But if you want to dis.Disengage. If you want to. If you
want to lessen theawkwardness, give a compliment back.
You're like, oh, yeah, Ithought you did a great job on this
thing too. And now we're bothelevated. It's all good. So.
(34:24):
So as you're out therespeaking about your book. When they're
coming to you, where are theyat usually, you know, and what are
some of your observations thatyou're seeing as you're kind of bringing
this message to some of theorganizations you're speaking and
consulting with?
Well, we talked about this alittle bit earlier. I think a lot
of companies are, especially Iwork primarily with larger companies.
We'll say, you know, 5,000plus employees are setting a goal
(34:48):
to create more talentmobility. Right? Career mobility,
wanting people to take ondifferent roles within the organization
and they might be investing inthe tools behind that or a platform,
like an AI powered platformwhere you can go in and put in your
skills and it'll tell you,here's where you are today. You're
a marketing analyst. Two andyou want to get to marketing manager.
Here's the things that youneed to do and that's really cool.
(35:09):
So there's a lot of technologythat companies can invest in platforms.
Fuel50 is an example of one. Ithink Workday has a platform and
there's plenty of others outthere. The two challenges that go
along with that are one, themindset side of things, like we talked
about, where you want yourpeople to actually be intentional
and thoughtful about what theywant to do, where they want to go
and take advantage of thoseresources. And then the other one
(35:31):
is what you talk about a lotis like, are the leaders supporting
people? In other words, likeyou want mobility. But if all your
leaders want is to protect andkeep their people, then you've got
conflict, right? You've got aconflict of interest. So you also
need to build it into themessaging and the culture that you've
built with among leaders andmanagers in your organization that
(35:52):
say we want what's best forour employees and what's best for
the organization. And I don'tcare. I mean, I care. I love the
people I work with, but I'mnot going to quote, unquote, hoard
them. If you ever readMultipliers by Liz Weissman, you
know, talent hoarders versustalent multipliers, I'm not going
to hoard them just becauseit's going to make my job easier.
I'm going to do what's bestfor them and do what's best for the
(36:12):
organization. And that's goingto benefit everyone. It's going to
benefit me as well. So I thinkcompanies want more talent mobility.
They want people to take moreownership of their career to like
take a, you know, the driver'sseat, the primary role and Driving
their career. I think we'reseeing a lot more. What's the word
I'm looking for? Flatterorganizations, Less hierarchy, less
promotions are available. Socompanies want our people to figure
(36:33):
out other ways, get creativeand how they can grow in their careers
by taking on different typesof roles and projects, learning and
things like that. And then, ofcourse, we can't ignore the fact
that AI is coming in andchanging the way people work in a
lot of organizations. And soI'm starting to hear people and companies
say to me, like, we want tofigure out how to encourage our people
to use AI more so you can useit more in the business. And hopefully
(36:55):
it makes them better and itmakes the organization better and
everybody gets to keep theirjobs or do something more elevated
or different. I have no ideawhere things are going to go. It's
a whole nother. Whole notherconversation. Right. But I think
a lot of companies are tryingto figure out, okay, how do we encourage
our people to use that more?And to me, a lot of that comes down
to mindset, you know,developing more of a growth mindset,
being willing to try differentthings and fail at stuff and learn
(37:18):
from that experience and keep going.
Yeah. Love it. Love it. I'vehad at least one leader, and I've
seen personally, and then I'veseen this happen somewhat infrequently.
But I just want to reiteratethe point you're making around kind
of multipliers, right. Andwhat's interesting is these leaders
who. And I had a leader likethis who really, like, one of their
(37:40):
goals is to be an exporter oftalent from their team.
I like it.
Actually have peoplescrambling to get on the team, right.
Over time, like when thatreputation builds up, they have no
problem filling roles that areopen on their team. Right. So even
though there's this fear of,you know, I don't want to lose my
talent, right. When it. Whenyou can make it a part of the story
(38:02):
and even just the mini sort ofemployee value proposition of being
on your team, right. Youactually end up struggling less than
others, Right. Filling.Because people will want to be on
that team, right. They'll seethat they're cared for and that they
can. That it's a careeraccelerator, you know, being on your
team. So I think it's a great.A great point and a great aspiration
(38:26):
that I've seen fewer than I'dlike. Right. Leaders sort of take
that on. Okay, I'm gonna giveus a shove into the advice column.
So as we're Kind of wrappingup today. So what's your, what's
your advice for leaders outthere? I know we've kind of talked
a fair amount about it, but ifyou had to give one, one piece of
advice that leaders could takeaway from today and do something
(38:47):
with.
Yeah, I'm going to double downon what we talked about. I think
it's thinking long term andleading with curiosity and empathy.
Right. Starting with askingquestions instead of just jumping
in and telling people whatthey want or assuming what they want
and thinking long term. Buthow can I set this person up for
success long term? What can Ido to set the company up for long
(39:08):
term success and believing orhaving faith that that is also going
to benefit you in your careeras well? I think those are the biggest
things. And then secondarilyI'm big on creating kind of an inclusive
environment or helping peoplefeel like they belong on the team
that they're working on. Ithink that's going to encourage them
to try new things, to get morecreative, to drive more innovation
(39:29):
and to be more productive andengaged as well.
Nice. And so what would youradvice be for those who are supporting
leaders? Right. Who are eitherhelping leaders step up their game
in some, you know, what's youradvice for those that could be hr,
that could be senior leaders?
Yeah, I think one of thehardest things for managers and leaders
today is that they're beingasked to still do a job as an implementer
(39:53):
a lot of the time and alsolead their people. So would be to
try to give space to thoseleaders and remind them that their
primary role, I mean, itdepends on the company and the job
description and all thatstuff. But the primary role is to
lead their people, to enableand empower them to succeed. So it's
really important to make timefor those one on ones, for the team
(40:14):
meetings, for those careerconversations, to make yourself available
to people and to try to keepthinking about and figuring out more
ways to delegate, tochallenge, to push people to accomplish
more and not try to do thework yourself. To get away from micromanaging
as much as possible and getthe work done through your team.
(40:34):
Remind them they don't have tohave all the answers. Right. And
that it's okay to just behuman and focus on just leading and
enabling other people to getthe job done. And if they do, that
will reflect well on you.
Yeah, love it. So as we'rekind of, you know, the final piece
here is for those that wantmore Andy Storch in their life, how
do they get ahold of you, youknow what, and what should they be
(40:57):
reaching out to you for?
And who doesn't want that? SoI've got. I'm all over the place.
I post on LinkedIn almostevery day, so make sure you connect
with me there. If you're apodcast listener, especially if you're
in the HR talent developmentspace, I have a podcast called the
Talent Development Hot Seatthat I've been publishing weekly
since 2017. We're almost up to600 episodes on that with lots of
(41:17):
great people on there. Andthen I also speak in organizations.
I've got some bonus resourceson my website. If you go to andystorch.com
bonus you can download my 5Steps to Owning youg Career, some
other bonus resources,including the three questions to
ask anytime. Actually, it'sfive questions now to ask anytime
you face a difficult situationor a challenge, and a lot more. So
(41:38):
andystorch.com bonus awesome.
Cool. Andy, thank you so muchfor coming on today. Really appreciate
it. I think it's a reallyimportant topic as I've sort of faced
it at every company I'veworked with. So I'm just excited
to have you here to see talkabout owning your own career. And
I love it. I love the booktitle, owning your Life.
Well, thank you, Kent. I lovewhat you're doing, I love how you're
(41:59):
helping people, and I reallyappreciate you having me on the show.
All right, thanks. That bringsus to the end of our episode. Thanks
for listening. I'd encourageyou to head on over to my website,
Kent Coach, and start aconversation with me there. Or check
out my promotion playbook atKent Coach Playbook. Before you go
on with your day, I ask you,please take a moment to leave a rating
and a review wherever youlisten to podcasts. Five stars. That
(42:22):
helps put this podcast infront of more eyes and ears. Until
next time, take it easy.
I realized through doing thatwork, building a business around
my strengths and then talkingto clients about it in the corporate
space, that not everybodywants to be an entrepreneur, but
I think everybody does want tofeel like they're happy and fulfilled
in their career. My theory isthat most people have a better chance
of feeling happy and fulfilledif they're taking ownership of their
career, if they're beingintentional with what they're doing,
(00:26):
where they're going. And so Ifelt like with all the work that
I did, the studying I did, Ihad a framework that I could use
to help other people with that.
Hi there and welcome to theStep Up Expert Voices for Leadership
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
(00:48):
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing. As a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
(01:08):
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everyone.Today we are talking about owning
your own career and a leader'srole in that. And with me for that
conversation today is AndyStorch, author of Own youn Career,
(01:32):
Own youn your Life, speaker,podcaster, cyclist, expat, living
in Spain, all around greatguy, and welcome to the podcast today.
Well, Ken, thank you so much.It's cool that we, we met not that
long ago, just a few monthsback, and we've gotten to know each
other pretty well already and,you know, all the things that I'm
known for. Let's see, let'ssee what we can get into this.
(01:53):
In this session, I think I wasgonna say, I think we can almost
see all the things I talkedabout in the background, including
your bike. But, you know,we'll see what the final video version
looks like. I love to juststart with because I just feel it's
interesting for people to hearcareer paths. So I'd love to have
you talk a little bit aboutyour career path and how you ended
(02:14):
up doing what you're doing today.
Well, yeah, my career path hasbeen meandering and winding with
lots of stops and starts. Likemany people, right? Especially in
the corporate world, when Iwas growing up, I wanted to be a
professional baseball player.That was my dream. I grew up playing
lots of sports, especiallybaseball, and I talk about that in
my book and often in mykeynotes, because I was a decent
player, but not that great.But I never really had a clear plan
(02:37):
for how I was going to getthere. And I ended up quitting at
15, which is a bit of amindset issue that I get into, which
I changed later on. And then Ireally thought I wanted to be a civil
engineer. I was really intoroads and bridges in high school
and did well in calculus andphysics. But when I got to college,
I ran into chemistry class.And even though chemistry is not
really needed to be a civilengineer, it was one requirement
(02:58):
and I just couldn't do it.Partly because my mind is more geared
for physics and calculus andless geared for chemistry. And also
because I joined a fraternityand I was out partying every night.
So it was sort of like acombination between those things.
I ended up switching majors, Igot into more of computers and business,
but I was still really justkind of having fun. And I took the
only job I could find out ofcollege, which was like a management
(03:20):
training program at aretailer, not something I really
enjoyed. And then I kind ofdiscovered this idea of entrepreneurship
and I. I tied my hand at acouple of different startup ideas.
Nothing that really workedvery well. Bounced around in some
different jobs. Ended upmoving from Florida, where I grew
up, to California, SouthernCalifornia, with my fiance at the
time, now wife, because shewanted to get into TV and I wanted
(03:42):
to just live somewhere else.And I again tried a few different
startups because I thought Iwanted to be some type of entrepreneur
connected with that. Nothingreally worked out too well. So a
friend got me a job in theinsurance industry. I ended up going
back to school to get my MBAbecause I wasn't terribly happy or
fulfilled. And then I got alucky break one day and a friend
(04:02):
connected me with a job withan insurance. Insurance with a. With
a consulting company calledbts, which was sort of my foray into
the training and developmentspace because even though they called
it consulting, we werebuilding and running custom business
simulations for companiesaround the world. And it ended up
being kind of a dream job forme because I discovered these strengths
(04:22):
that I didn't know I hadbefore, like speaking in front of
a room, facilitatingworkshops, talking to people, connecting
with people, networking I hadstarted to get really into, but I
never had a job that reallyconnected to that or, you know, where
I benefited from my ability todo that. I had been in these analytical
jobs before that were allbased on, like, being good at spreadsheets
(04:43):
and stuff that I was okay at,but not great. And so I was often
frustrated. And then. And so Iwas doing fairly well, enjoying that
job, traveling all over theworld. And I really got a chance
to work with lots of differentleaders, big companies. I learned
a lot. About what? Aboutstrategy, about business acumen,
about success, aboutleadership. I also observed a lot
of people kind of driftingthrough their careers, operating
(05:05):
in reaction mode, waiting forsomeone to tell them what to do or
where to go. And not to saythat they couldn't be, quote, unquote,
successful, move up theladder, right, make more money, get
into a VP position in acompany. But that doesn't mean they
were always happy. In fact,many of them I felt like were not.
And I filed that away. And asI started to get drawn back into
the idea of becoming anentrepreneur, really starting in
(05:28):
2016, I discovered the worldof personal development. And I started
doing a lot of selfreflection, a lot of reading and
studying and listening topodcasts like this one to learn as
much as I can about all thethings that were out there. And I
got drawn back into this ideaof being an entrepreneur because
I think I have a strong valuetowards like autonomy and independence
and things like that. Irealized through doing that work
(05:50):
and building a business aroundmy strengths and then talking to
clients about it in thecorporate space that not everybody
wants to be an entrepreneur,but I think everybody does want to
feel like they're happy andfulfilled in their career. And my
theory is that most peoplehave a better chance of feeling happy
and fulfilled if they'retaking ownership of their career,
if they're being intentionalwith what they're doing, where they're
(06:12):
going. And so I felt like withall the work that I did, the studying
I did, I had a framework thatI could use to help other people
with that. And thus my bookwas born, own your career, own your
life, which I wrote andpublished in 2020. And I've been
building a career and abusiness around the book and my content
and the things that I know andI believe I can help other people
(06:34):
with ever since then.
Nice, nice. I like it. I hada. I feel like we have a couple points
of similarity in our path. Ithink I fell into sort of the leadership
development and, you know,talent management space a little,
little faster, but I did, Idid a couple years stint in back
(06:54):
office insurance, not notsales, but in the back office before
weirdly starting my career inconsulting, you know, before then
going into HR and back toconsulting. But I think I've had
that similar, similar drawback to, you know, the consulting
space. So I want to startpivoting us into the topic because,
interestingly, I think what'sfascinated me about your book and
(07:19):
what you talk about quite abit around owning your own career
is my own observations fromparticularly my time in hr, you know,
and a couple of the positionsI've had were in pretty old companies
who had been around for a longtime. And I would say an interesting
similarity between my prior,you know, two prior employers to
(07:43):
now, interestingly, was thismentality of. Or this culture originating
culture of sort of waiting tobe tapped on the shoulder and told,
you know, what your next rolewas going to be or what you should
do next. And, and seeing bothof these organizations at different
stages in their recentmaturity kind of open up and try
(08:08):
to make this. This or make.Not just try, but make this pivot
from you're waiting around tobe tapped on the shoulder to encouraging
employees to own your owncareer, having an actual system where
they can apply to jobsinternally. So I've definitely been
a part of, on the inside, youknow, trying to encourage this own
your own career mentality. Sowhat, what kind of, I mean, I think
(08:31):
your own career story oftrying a lot of things probably is
part of what brought you tothis. But I'd be curious, you know,
what other, what other thingssort of led you into thinking about
and writing and now speakingabout this topic?
Yeah, well, you're right inthat I think a lot of companies are
starting to say we want ourpeople to own their careers. We want
(08:53):
more career mobility. That is,if they're a larger company, let's
say, with at least 3, 5,10,000 employees, we want people
to move around and take ondifferent roles. That way they feel
like they're getting lots ofdifferent opportunities for different
types of careers, but theystay under one roof and keep their
knowledge here. The problem isyou can create all the resources
in the world, but if you don'tteach and show people how to take
(09:14):
ownership, how to beintentional, how to go out using
those resources, they won'tmatter. And you know that from being,
you know, inside. Of course,what I observed, you know, especially
going back to my consultingdays, is that just as you said, a
lot of people have, you know,grown up and been taught that the
way you are successful in lifeis that you work hard and you put
(09:36):
your head down, and you waitfor someone to reward you for that.
And you don't brag about thework that you've done because nobody
likes, you know, a boastfulperson with a big ego, that sort
of thing. But the problem is,and that does work sometimes, but
the problem is a lot, youknow, a lot of times we're either
not recognized for the workwe're doing because, you know, someone
else gets the credit, or theboss is really busy and doesn't notice.
(09:57):
Another big problem is that,and I hear this all the time from
leaders, from managers, thereason they don't sit down and have
a career conversation with theperson on their team is because they
think, well, I don't have apromotion for them, so I'm not going
to have this conversation. Butit might be that the person on the
other end of the, you know,the other side doesn't want a promotion.
They actually want to dosomething completely different. And
(10:18):
nobody knows what they want orwhat you want until you're willing
to have that conversation,right? To be proactive and come to
your manager and say, yeah, Iwork in sales or I work in it now,
but I really love the peopleside of things. I'm kind of interested
in getting to hr. No one wouldknow that unless you, you know, you
spoke up and had thatconversation. And so a lot of people
don't know what you want.There's a lot of stuff going on in
the world. There's a lot ofdistractions. And so more and more,
(10:41):
I think it's really importantthat people think about building
their personal brand, which isin the middle part of my book. I
talk about three things youcan always be doing to set yourself
up for future success. Thefirst is investing in continuous
learning. The second isbuilding your network. And the third
is building your personalbrand. Because we can't rely on just
doing great work, workinghard, and hoping that somebody notices.
We've got to think about howdo we make sure that we are recognized
(11:03):
for the things that we'vedone, for the things that we know,
for our talents and ourskills. And if you're lucky, you
have a great manager whorecognizes your strengths and creates
some type of role for youaround those strengths. But I've
had roles in the past goingback to my time in the insurance
industry, where I recognizedmy own strengths. And I went to my
manager and said, hey, can wecreate something where I can leverage
(11:23):
more of my strengths? And hesaid something to the effect of,
no, your job is X analyzingspreadsheets. I Don't care if you're
good with people, get back towork analyzing spreadsheets. And
not every manager is likethat, but most are kind of, I think,
in the middle where they'renot really going to recognize that
because they're just notthinking about it until you speak
up and say, hey, I reallyenjoy doing this type of work. Can
(11:45):
I do more of that work whichwill benefit both me and the organization.
I like that. And you've hit ona couple things here that I want
to dig into for folks outthere who are working on their leadership
skills. Right. And becominggreat leaders, better leaders. We
get into having good careerand development conversations with
(12:10):
people. And the first thingyou said was around, you know, leaders
feeling like, well, I don'thave a promotion. And I think a similar,
similar, you know, along asimilar vein, I hear leaders say,
have this hesitance aroundhaving certain career conversations
given fear of, like, I don'twant to make promises that I can't
keep. Right. And, and I thinkI've certainly counseled around,
(12:35):
well, you don't need to make apromise. You know, you can actually
be quite transparent and say,you know what you can and can't promise
and.
Right.
But I'd be curious, sort of,when you think about the role that
leaders can play in having atleast these initial transparent conversations,
what are some of the thingsthat you're thinking about and talking
(12:56):
to companies about?
Well, I think that forleaders, first of all, my philosophy
on leadership is thatleadership at its core is all about
enabling and empowering peopleto succeed both in their jobs today
and their career long term.Now every, just about every manager,
every boss says, like, sure, Iwant my people to be successful in
their job today because I wantthe job to be successful. So it reflects
(13:17):
well on me. The worst of thelot, of course, are not even wanting
their people to be successfulin that job. But the best managers
and leaders are also thinkingabout, how do I help my people be
successful long term in theircareers, even if that means leaving
my team and going doingsomething different outside of this
company or inside of thiscompany, something that they love,
(13:38):
because if they do that,they're going to remember me fondly.
It's going to reflect well onmy personal brand and my reputation.
More people are going to wantto work for me. And quite frankly,
it's an important part of yourlegacy that you are helping other
people, which I think that'swhat leadership is all about. Right.
Problem is, like you said, alot of managers are maybe afraid
to have that Conversationbecause they think, well, I don't
(14:00):
know. If I don't have apromotion for them, I don't have
the answer for them. I don'twant to promise.
I don't think they can get.Or, like, I don't think they can
get there.
Yeah. Or I don't think thatthey're. They're good. They're good
enough for it. Like. And it isa hard conversation to have. But
what I always remind peopleis, like, you got to start first
and foremost with curiosityand empathy. If you just lead with
curiosity. Right? Many peopleknow the book the Coaching Habit
(14:23):
by Michael Bungay Stander,who's a friend of mine, been on my
podcast many, multiple times.You know, he talks about quelling
the advice monster and nottrying to speak too much and just
lead with curiosity. Ask thequestion, how do you feel things
are going, Ken? Like, where doyou see yourself going in your career?
What would you like to bedoing more of? What would you really
like to be doing one day? Andthey might say something that you
(14:44):
can't help with or you don'tthink that they're capable of, and
then you can say, well, Idon't know how to help you get there,
or, let's see if we can findthat out together. Or, it's great
that you. You want to be amanager one day. Quite frankly, I
don't feel like you're quitemeeting the expectations for that
joint yet, but let's put aplan together to help you get there.
Now that we've had thatconversation, right, let's talk about
(15:06):
how we could potentially makethat possible, or maybe it's not
possible, and let's talk aboutother options. But the worst thing
you can do is just have noconversation at all. So many people
are afraid. I think one of thebiggest problems with managers, leaders
for managers and leaders todayis they feel like they have to have
all the answers when you and Iknow that's absolutely not true.
(15:28):
And in fact, I think more andmore when I ask people about what
they want from leaders, fromtheir manager, they tell me things
like, I want them to be morehuman. I just want to know that I'm
working for a real person. Iwant them to be honest and authentic,
and it's okay to say, hey, Idon't have all the answers to this,
but that's actually why wehave this team here. That's why I
have you. Like, let's lookinto this together so that it doesn't
(15:48):
rely entirely on you. And,like, let's figure out a plan. And
just remember the goal is toenable and empower people to be successful
both on their job today andtheir career long term. And if you
keep that as kind of yourNorth Star, and it doesn't mean just
nice and fluffy. Right. Like,do whatever you can to help people
and it doesn't matter, like,obviously we have a job to get done,
(16:08):
we have goals. Accountabilityis really, really important. But
also always just thinking, howcan I help people be successful long
term? It's going to benefiteverybody so much.
Yeah. It does require somelevel of courage for a leader, to
be honest. Right. However, Iwould also argue if there is feedback
to someone about how you'renot seeing whatever the skills are
(16:33):
or performance level that'saligned with what they're telling
you is where they want to go,there's probably some feedback in
there that you should beproviding, whether or not. Or having
a career conversation. Right.So on the one hand, while there's
like some courage that'srequired, I would also just go so
far as to say it's kind ofyour job to be able to, you know,
(16:54):
provide that feedback.
Right.
And. And, yeah, don't make apromise. And I like, I like how you're
putting that because it's verysimilar to how, what I, what I tell
to leaders, what I say toleaders, too, which is, there's a
really interestingconversation to have in there. If
someone's telling you, here'swhat I want to do for you to say,
you know, today I'm not seeingthat. Right. And why is it, Is it
a specific experience set?
(17:14):
Yeah.
You know, is it, you know, youjust, you have not been in the field.
Right. Or is it a, you know,is it a performance issue? You know,
I'm not seeing that level of hustle.
Yeah.
Today that's, that's typicallyrequired. Interestingly, one place
that I've taken it to is. AndI'd be. I'd be curious what your
reaction to this is. Is I kindof, even in an internal role, I have
(17:36):
leaned in on competition.Right. Like, let's talk about what,
you know, what happens when anopening comes around is there's multiple
people applying for it andwhat would make you the most competitive
applicant. Right. And I think,like, you know.
Yeah.
Putting. Yeah. Putting it backon them a little bit. I'd be curious,
like, you know, do you lean inon that?
(17:58):
I think that's a good, I thinkthat's a good way to go. Because
I would, I would want to comeback. Because you don't want to give
advice unless they're askingfor it. I think you want to be realistic,
right. If people ask forsomething that you know is not quite
possible right away, at thesame time, I don't ever want to,
like, crush anybody's dreamseither. So, like, let's talk about
what's possible. Like, if youtold me, Kent, right now, hey, my
(18:19):
goal is for my podcast to benumber one in the world at the end
of next year, and I want tohave Adam Grant on as my next guest,
I'd be.
Like, how did you know?
Listen, given that you juststarted a few months ago, right?
And my estimation is, like,your level of investment in this
is similar to mine, which is,like, you're serious about it, but
you're not investing, like,thousands of dollars in, like, a
production studio and all thisstuff, to me, that the goals feel
(18:43):
a little bit unlikely, butit's not impossible. Let's talk about
how are you going to get AdamGrant? I mean, you got me, so that's
a pretty nice step, right towards.
But, like, I think.
So how are you going to makethe next step to someone who charges,
let's say, six times what I dofor a keynote talk and is infinitely
more popular? It's, again, notimpossible if you have the right
connection. Let's talk abouthow we could get there. What do you
(19:04):
think needs to be done andsimilar with, like, okay, you want
to move to hr? You want to geta promotion next year? Like, how
do you think you stack upright now? What do you think is possible?
And unfortunately, some peopleare delusional. Right? They'll be
like, well, I think I'm doinga great job. And you're like, well,
let's look at the track recordand see, and let's talk about this.
And of course, there are goingto be some hard conversations, and
(19:24):
you do have to have somecourage, and you do have to get past
some of the awkwardnesssometimes. But that is part of being
a manager, being a leader inthis world.
Yeah. Well. And I think moreand more, I find that your immediate
supervisor usually is not theperson who's making the call on that
next step. Right. If you areinterested. So I think they're, you
know, I think leaders need toalso give themselves permission to
(19:44):
say, I'm not the one who'sgonna make that decision. Let me
talk to you about, like, howdo I help you with the time that
we have together? You know,make you as competitive as we can.
Right.
But the thing is, like, Ithink so often we're, you Know, a
lot of times leaders ormanagers are afraid, well, I, you
know, I don't want to go intothis because I don't have a promotion
for them, because we assumethat everybody wants to move up.
(20:07):
But I mean, you know, thiscan't you. But more than 50% of the
people you talk to are goingto say, when you ask, what do you
want to do in your career?They're going to say something to
the effect of, well, like, I'mpretty happy doing this work. If
I could do a little bit morethat leverages my strengths, get
a raise every year and notwork more than 50 hours a week so
that I can, you know, spendtime with my family, I'm pretty happy.
A lot of people don't want tomove into a manager role. They don't
(20:28):
want more responsibility.Right. That's only for certain people.
So not everybody is lookingfor that, that promotion. Everybody
wants different things. Andthat's why you got to start with
the curiosity and ask, like,what do you want to do in your career?
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Iwould say coming out of the pandemic,
too, and perhaps the researchis still early on this, but we're
also hearing, you know, thatpeople are starting to opt out of
(20:51):
leadership a little bit,right, that, that this crucible experience,
right, that everybody wentthrough trying to balance everything,
working from home, you know,all of that, it opened up a lot of
people's eyes to what pluswhat plus what equals just life fulfillment
and not just job fulfillment.So I think some people are even starting
(21:15):
to consciously opt. Step offthe leadership track, essentially.
And on top of that, I wouldsay to the HR folks listening, I
think we can all admit that,especially when you're early on in
your HR career, the, theconcept that not everybody wants
to be promoted and isinterested in career growth can sometimes
be feel like kind of theantithesis of everything that we're
(21:36):
doing and talking about. Butit's like, yeah, but I mean, there's,
you know, there's billions ofpeople out there. There's lots of
roles out there. We need allof them done. And if every single
person and every singleindividual contributor role wanted
onto the leadership track,first of all, we'd have a, have to
have a whole lot more hardconversations because there's only
so many roles and it's fewerevery level up. Yeah, right. And
(22:00):
so I think there's always thisneeding to remember that, yeah, not
everybody wants or even hasthe same level of desire for promotion
or the same level they'relooking at for promotion eventually.
But you said one thing I wantto come back to, which I think is
really important too. Andcertainly in my own career coaching,
I've leveraged this. But Ithink for leaders out there who are
(22:24):
coaching or even careercoaches out there who are coaching
is to. For career coachingperspectives is. And I think you've
leaned into this. I want topick on it because I have a feeling
you've got a thought andopinion on this, which is really
getting into. Let's step awayfrom the roles and the title conversation
for a minute, the levelconversations, and let's talk about
(22:45):
what you like. You know, whatare. What is it that you're good
at? What are you not good at?What are the things you tend to avoid?
What's there to learn from thethings you're avoiding, to have more
of this. Like, let's talkabout the elements, you know, what
you do day in and day out andmaybe start to piece it together,
you know.
Yeah.
In the Lego bricks that way tokind of think about what you might
(23:06):
want to do.
100%. I mean, I start my bookand my keynotes with the foundation
to owning your career is firstand foremost in taking full responsibility
for your career and your life.Right. And not outsourcing that to
other people. But second ofall is in self awareness. And self
awareness starts with selfreflection, which is taking time
to really get to knowyourself. Your strengths, your weaknesses,
(23:27):
your values, your energizers,what you care about, what you love
about your career, what youdon't like, what you might want to
do differently. And in thissuper quote busy world where we've
got like distractions all thetime, right? Text messages, social
media notifications, emails,plenty of work to do if you have
a significant other and youhave pets and you have kids and like,
they always want things fromyou. There's. And social media, there's
(23:48):
always things to do. And sorarely people do. People take time
to just sit and reflect, butit's a good exercise to sit down
and think about what are thosethings that you're good at and you're
not good at. And by the way,everybody knows what their weaknesses
are. Most people don't taketime to really acknowledge their
strengths. And one of thereasons is again, we were, you know,
we were taught not to brag. Wewere taught to, you know, be to.
(24:08):
Humility is a, is a, is avalue. Right. But it's really valuable
to know what your strengthsare and to recognize those. And so
when people do say, you know,hey, Kent, like, you're really good
at this thing. Like, I justreally admire how you synthesize
these things or how you coachpeople instead of just saying, well,
I'm really lucky, or peoplethink if I'm good at something, then
everybody must be good at it.But it's not true. We all have strengths,
(24:31):
just like we all haveweaknesses, right? So I know the
things that I'm good at. Iknow what my limitations are. And
when you know your strengths,then you can start to maybe build
a career that's a little bitmore based around those. For example,
earlier in my career, I was inanalytical roles and I was using
Excel a lot. And I'm. I'mdecent with a spreadsheet, but I
wouldn't say it's like one ofmy big strengths. At the me. At the
(24:53):
same time, I was, like, alwaysorganizing lunches and happy hours
with people, right? And so oneof my strengths is in connecting
and networking and buildingrelationships. The problem at that
time was I was in a role whereit wasn't valued. And I actually
thought that it was somethingthat was almost a weakness in my
career, that I couldn't getmyself to just sit down and focus.
Like, every hour I had to talkto somebody, and it was causing problems
(25:15):
for me. And I thought, this issomething that's always going to
hold me back in my career.Until one day I changed, and I built
a business and a career aroundmy strengths. And now I talk to people
all day, all the time, and Ilove doing it. And it sometimes adds
value to other people, too,right? When I'm speaking or running
a program or something likethat. It just took a little while
to recognize that and to say,hey, maybe I need to pivot and do
(25:38):
something a little bitdifferent that leverages those strengths.
And for some people, thatmight be a complete career shift,
like, kind of was for me. Forothers, it might be just going to
your manager and saying, youknow, hey, I'm doing XYZ right now.
Can we shift this? Is itpossible to shift this 10% so I'm
spending a little bit moretime? Maybe you're the opposite of
me, right? And you lovespreadsheets. You don't like talking
to people. Hey, can I skipthose meetings and just spend more
(26:00):
time doing analytical work? Ifeel like I don't add any value in
those meetings anyway. I'lljust give you a report. They might
be like, yeah, cool, soundsgood. You're really good at the spreadsheets,
whatever it is, but you don'tknow until you have those conversations.
And it's the flip formanagers. I think some of the best
leaders and managers out thereare observing their people and recognizing
what are the strengths thatthey don't even know they have so
(26:22):
they can tap into those more.So I mentioned earlier I had a manager
where I recognized mystrengths. I went to him, asked if
I could spend more time in thefield doing people stuff, and he
said, no, your job isspreadsheets. Get back to work. Later
on, when I was in consulting,I worked for a woman named Jessica
Scone, and she was my boss'sboss. We had a hard conversation
one time where I wasn'tgetting a promotion because I didn't
(26:43):
meet certain requirements. Butat the same time, she recognized
some strengths in me that Ididn't even realize I had on the
sales side. And she offered meand actually created a new role just
for me, based her on mystrengths. And I ended up thriving
there for a couple more yearsbecause she had done that. And because
of that, I wrote about Jessicain my book. I mentioned her sometimes
in keynotes as the best leaderI've ever worked for. And the other
(27:05):
guy, I don't mention him byname at all. Right. They both have
a reputation in my mind, oneperson who held me back and the other
person who accelerated mycareer success. And so, you know,
I posit this to leaders, like,which one do you want to be? Right.
Do you. What do you want yourlegacy to be? Do you want it to be
the person, you know, theleader that people remember because
you helped them accelerate intheir career, or the one that held
them back because you justwanted to get that job done that
(27:27):
day?
I love that. And I would say,because I've worked in companies
big and small, and I wouldencourage leaders to, you know, don't
let size policy, what youassume to be red tape stop you. Right.
Like, as much as you're sayingtoday, Andy, to kind of lean into
these career conversationsfrom a place of curiosity. Lean into
(27:49):
the conversations you need tohave with your leaders, your HR business
partners, also with curiosity.Right. And say, what could be done?
You know, this person has, youknow, really great strengths in these
areas, maybe isn't a greatfit, you know, for this exact role
today, but they'd be ashamed,you know, to lose out on all the
other ways that this personcould contribute. Right. So lean
(28:10):
into those conversations withcuriosity. You said something a couple
times I want to come to, whichis because I, you know, I've done
some work in the DEI spacearound sponsorship. Right. And how
do you. Which Essentially, forthe listener, if you're not familiar
with sponsorship is, in anutshell, it's who's talking about
you positively in rooms you'renot in your career, looking out for
(28:31):
you, advocating foropportunities. And one thing in these
sponsorship programs thatwe've looked at is, well, sometimes,
you know, when we areassigning you a sponsor to get to
know and put you on a pathwayto future sponsorship, sometimes
we're connecting you withsomeone who doesn't know you that
well and might not know yourwork product. So the connection for.
(28:52):
In my brain to what you weresaying was, you know, we don't want
to brag, right? But people doneed to know about your. Your wins,
right. And. And the thingsyou're good at, the. The numbers
you've put on the board. SoI'd be curious. I just want to have
you kind of dig in on that alittle bit, because I'm assuming,
given the number of timesyou've mentioned it, that you've
got some thoughts on, youknow, how do you toot your own horn?
(29:16):
Yeah.
How and how and when. Right.
Well, it is. It's a balancebecause people don't like others
who brag, right. We don't likepeople who think they're better than
us. And. But we want to knowwhat people are good at and what
they're capable of. And so ifI ask you, Kent, like, hey, what
do you. What are you reallygood at? I want to be able to refer
you or support you and yourbusiness. I don't want you to just
(29:38):
say, well, I'm actually. I'mnot that good at anything. Like,
you know, that's. It's humble,but it doesn't help me at all. Right.
I'd rather you. So onequestion I might ask, or a question
you could ask yourself is,what are you really proud of? Right.
In your career, what are youreally proud of? What have you accomplished
that you're really proud of?And you can say, well, I'm really
proud of this project that Icompleted because I put a lot of
(30:00):
effort into it, and I feltlike we did a really great job with
it. We exceeded all theexpectations. And yeah, I had help
from my team, but I was a bigpart of this and I led this team,
or I was worked on this partof it. I'm really proud that I'm
leading this meeting everyThursday, and people seem to feel
like it's engaging againwithout coming up and saying, like,
I'm the best in the world,because nobody likes that. But can
(30:23):
you say I'm really proud thatI've accomplished these things, that
I've developed strong skillsin these areas. You know, I'm really
proud personally that I'vepublished a book, I've built a business
around it, I've spoken onstages and in front of thousands
of people, that I've hosted apodcast for seven years and published
over a thousand episodes. Do Ithink I'm the best podcaster in the
world or the best speaker inthe world? No. I'm always learning.
(30:45):
I'm always trying to getbetter. But I'm very proud of these
things that I've accomplished.And I want to be known as an expert
in career development. I wantto be known as a great keynote speaker.
I want to be known a bit as acyclist, even though when I go out
cycling, you mentioned itearlier, when I go out cycling with
other people, I'm usually oneof the slower ones, but at least
I'm out there doing it, and Idon't mind people knowing about it.
It's part of my personalbrand. It's part of who I am. Right.
(31:07):
And so I think we can talkabout the things that we do, the
things that we like doing, thethings that we're good at, the things
that we want to be recognizedfor and known for and. And say, yeah,
like, I'm proud of the thingsthat I've accomplished without going
too far and saying, oh, I'mthe best in the world at it and I'm
better than you. Like, you'renot going to say that, but I think
you can be. You're allowed tobe proud of things. And I think people
(31:28):
like that. I think theyappreciate that.
I like that. That's a goodangle. And it sounds even like when
you think about interviewprep, right. When you're interviewing
for a job internally orexternally, right. You need to be
able to talk about what you'veaccomplished. And I like the angle
that you've put on it, around,like, what are you proud of? Right.
(31:48):
How can you talk about thingsyou've done and what you're really
proud of having accomplished?So I think that's a great angle to
put on it because I think Ifind people over index on. On being
humble internally and nottalking about, you know, what are
some of the things thatthey've done, you know, the. The
metaphorical or real, ifyou're in sales, right. Numbers that
(32:10):
you've put on the board. Butif. If you're relying on others to
always tell your story foryou, you know, you might be outsourcing
too much of that. Right. And,you know, so finding those. Those
opportunistic and appropriate.Right. Moments, especially when you're.
When you're. When you'rethinking about senior leaders in
(32:31):
the organization who may havea hand in your future. Right.
Yeah. And the other thing youdo, connect it back to the strengths.
And I've done a lot of work onthis for myself because I used to
have a hard time both givingand receiving compliments and is
to notice when peoplecompliment you on certain things
and practice accepting it andjust saying thank you instead of.
Right. Instead of, you know,pushing it off and be like, well,
(32:53):
I just got lucky. Like, oh,Kent, you know, Andy, you did a really
great job on this thing now. Ijust got lucky. You know, I had a
team. Great. I got lucky and Iwas on a great team. Right. And that
might be the case, but maybeyou did work hard on it. You could
just say thank you. I workedreally hard on that. Thank you. This
is a skill that I've beendeveloping for a long time. Or, you
know, whatever it is. Like,sometimes you might be lucky, but
just acknowledge that you diddo work on that and say thank you.
(33:17):
And I think you peopleappreciate that too, because I've
also heard that when you sortof push off a compliment from somebody,
it's like someone wrapping agift and giving it to you, and you're
like, I don't want that. And,you know, you just batted away. I
want people to receive thecompliments that I give to them.
And so I try to get better atreceiving compliments people give
to me.
I. I love that. And I've kindof done the same thing, which is.
(33:40):
And I think part of thestruggle for me was like, well, I
don't know what to say.
Yeah.
When someone. Awkwardcomplimenting me. But I found it,
like, the more I've just keptit simple and just said, like, oh,
thanks. You know, like, evenjust that. Right. Like, has made
it easier to both personallyaccept a compliment, which may or
may not be difficult for me.Yeah. But also just because I think
(34:03):
to your point, right.Acknowledging that this person is
taking a moment to praise youand, you know.
And it's awkward because wedon't like being put on a pedestal.
But if you want to dis.Disengage. If you want to. If you
want to lessen theawkwardness, give a compliment back.
You're like, oh, yeah, Ithought you did a great job on this
thing too. And now we're bothelevated. It's all good. So.
(34:24):
So as you're out therespeaking about your book. When they're
coming to you, where are theyat usually, you know, and what are
some of your observations thatyou're seeing as you're kind of bringing
this message to some of theorganizations you're speaking and
consulting with?
Well, we talked about this alittle bit earlier. I think a lot
of companies are, especially Iwork primarily with larger companies.
We'll say, you know, 5,000plus employees are setting a goal
(34:48):
to create more talentmobility. Right? Career mobility,
wanting people to take ondifferent roles within the organization
and they might be investing inthe tools behind that or a platform,
like an AI powered platformwhere you can go in and put in your
skills and it'll tell you,here's where you are today. You're
a marketing analyst. Two andyou want to get to marketing manager.
Here's the things that youneed to do and that's really cool.
(35:09):
So there's a lot of technologythat companies can invest in platforms.
Fuel50 is an example of one. Ithink Workday has a platform and
there's plenty of others outthere. The two challenges that go
along with that are one, themindset side of things, like we talked
about, where you want yourpeople to actually be intentional
and thoughtful about what theywant to do, where they want to go
and take advantage of thoseresources. And then the other one
(35:31):
is what you talk about a lotis like, are the leaders supporting
people? In other words, likeyou want mobility. But if all your
leaders want is to protect andkeep their people, then you've got
conflict, right? You've got aconflict of interest. So you also
need to build it into themessaging and the culture that you've
built with among leaders andmanagers in your organization that
(35:52):
say we want what's best forour employees and what's best for
the organization. And I don'tcare. I mean, I care. I love the
people I work with, but I'mnot going to quote, unquote, hoard
them. If you ever readMultipliers by Liz Weissman, you
know, talent hoarders versustalent multipliers, I'm not going
to hoard them just becauseit's going to make my job easier.
I'm going to do what's bestfor them and do what's best for the
(36:12):
organization. And that's goingto benefit everyone. It's going to
benefit me as well. So I thinkcompanies want more talent mobility.
They want people to take moreownership of their career to like
take a, you know, the driver'sseat, the primary role and Driving
their career. I think we'reseeing a lot more. What's the word
I'm looking for? Flatterorganizations, Less hierarchy, less
promotions are available. Socompanies want our people to figure
(36:33):
out other ways, get creativeand how they can grow in their careers
by taking on different typesof roles and projects, learning and
things like that. And then, ofcourse, we can't ignore the fact
that AI is coming in andchanging the way people work in a
lot of organizations. And soI'm starting to hear people and companies
say to me, like, we want tofigure out how to encourage our people
to use AI more so you can useit more in the business. And hopefully
(36:55):
it makes them better and itmakes the organization better and
everybody gets to keep theirjobs or do something more elevated
or different. I have no ideawhere things are going to go. It's
a whole nother. Whole notherconversation. Right. But I think
a lot of companies are tryingto figure out, okay, how do we encourage
our people to use that more?And to me, a lot of that comes down
to mindset, you know,developing more of a growth mindset,
being willing to try differentthings and fail at stuff and learn
(37:18):
from that experience and keep going.
Yeah. Love it. Love it. I'vehad at least one leader, and I've
seen personally, and then I'veseen this happen somewhat infrequently.
But I just want to reiteratethe point you're making around kind
of multipliers, right. Andwhat's interesting is these leaders
who. And I had a leader likethis who really, like, one of their
(37:40):
goals is to be an exporter oftalent from their team.
I like it.
Actually have peoplescrambling to get on the team, right.
Over time, like when thatreputation builds up, they have no
problem filling roles that areopen on their team. Right. So even
though there's this fear of,you know, I don't want to lose my
talent, right. When it. Whenyou can make it a part of the story
(38:02):
and even just the mini sort ofemployee value proposition of being
on your team, right. Youactually end up struggling less than
others, Right. Filling.Because people will want to be on
that team, right. They'll seethat they're cared for and that they
can. That it's a careeraccelerator, you know, being on your
team. So I think it's a great.A great point and a great aspiration
(38:26):
that I've seen fewer than I'dlike. Right. Leaders sort of take
that on. Okay, I'm gonna giveus a shove into the advice column.
So as we're Kind of wrappingup today. So what's your, what's
your advice for leaders outthere? I know we've kind of talked
a fair amount about it, but ifyou had to give one, one piece of
advice that leaders could takeaway from today and do something
(38:47):
with.
Yeah, I'm going to double downon what we talked about. I think
it's thinking long term andleading with curiosity and empathy.
Right. Starting with askingquestions instead of just jumping
in and telling people whatthey want or assuming what they want
and thinking long term. Buthow can I set this person up for
success long term? What can Ido to set the company up for long
(39:08):
term success and believing orhaving faith that that is also going
to benefit you in your careeras well? I think those are the biggest
things. And then secondarilyI'm big on creating kind of an inclusive
environment or helping peoplefeel like they belong on the team
that they're working on. Ithink that's going to encourage them
to try new things, to get morecreative, to drive more innovation
(39:29):
and to be more productive andengaged as well.
Nice. And so what would youradvice be for those who are supporting
leaders? Right. Who are eitherhelping leaders step up their game
in some, you know, what's youradvice for those that could be hr,
that could be senior leaders?
Yeah, I think one of thehardest things for managers and leaders
today is that they're beingasked to still do a job as an implementer
(39:53):
a lot of the time and alsolead their people. So would be to
try to give space to thoseleaders and remind them that their
primary role, I mean, itdepends on the company and the job
description and all thatstuff. But the primary role is to
lead their people, to enableand empower them to succeed. So it's
really important to make timefor those one on ones, for the team
(40:14):
meetings, for those careerconversations, to make yourself available
to people and to try to keepthinking about and figuring out more
ways to delegate, tochallenge, to push people to accomplish
more and not try to do thework yourself. To get away from micromanaging
as much as possible and getthe work done through your team.
(40:34):
Remind them they don't have tohave all the answers. Right. And
that it's okay to just behuman and focus on just leading and
enabling other people to getthe job done. And if they do, that
will reflect well on you.
Yeah, love it. So as we'rekind of, you know, the final piece
here is for those that wantmore Andy Storch in their life, how
do they get ahold of you, youknow what, and what should they be
(40:57):
reaching out to you for?
And who doesn't want that? SoI've got. I'm all over the place.
I post on LinkedIn almostevery day, so make sure you connect
with me there. If you're apodcast listener, especially if you're
in the HR talent developmentspace, I have a podcast called the
Talent Development Hot Seatthat I've been publishing weekly
since 2017. We're almost up to600 episodes on that with lots of
(41:17):
great people on there. Andthen I also speak in organizations.
I've got some bonus resourceson my website. If you go to andystorch.com
bonus you can download my 5Steps to Owning youg Career, some
other bonus resources,including the three questions to
ask anytime. Actually, it'sfive questions now to ask anytime
you face a difficult situationor a challenge, and a lot more. So
(41:38):
andystorch.com bonus awesome.
Cool. Andy, thank you so muchfor coming on today. Really appreciate
it. I think it's a reallyimportant topic as I've sort of faced
it at every company I'veworked with. So I'm just excited
to have you here to see talkabout owning your own career. And
I love it. I love the booktitle, owning your Life.
Well, thank you, Kent. I lovewhat you're doing, I love how you're
(41:59):
helping people, and I reallyappreciate you having me on the show.
All right, thanks. That bringsus to the end of our episode. Thanks
for listening. I'd encourageyou to head on over to my website,
Kent Coach, and start aconversation with me there. Or check
out my promotion playbook atKent Coach Playbook. Before you go
on with your day, I ask you,please take a moment to leave a rating
and a review wherever youlisten to podcasts. Five stars. That
(42:22):
helps put this podcast infront of more eyes and ears. Until
next time, take it easy.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!