November 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Molly Conlin Peterson is an executive and career transition coach with over 23 years of experience helping thousands of professionals, leaders, and executives find more meaningful work. Her approach blends positive psychology with the research of Dr. Brené Brown, guiding clients to lead with courage, purpose, and heart. Molly has worked with organizations like Wells Fargo, 3M, SoFi, Feeding America, Better Up, and the University of Minnesota, where she also taught Strategic Career Planning. She holds an MA in Human Development, is a PCC-level ICF Certified Coach, and is certified in a range of career and leadership assessments, including MBTI, Strong Interest Inventory, and Leadership Circle Profile.
We're diving into Career Transitions, slowing down to speed up. Seriously, when life throws you a curveball—like getting laid off—it's all too easy to panic and rush into the job market. But hold your horses! Taking a moment to breathe and really feel what you're going through can lay a solid foundation for your next move. We chat about how to dream big, explore what's possible, and self-reflect on what you genuinely want, all while equipping yourself with the tools to show up stronger in interviews and meetings. So, grab your favorite drink, kick back, and let’s unravel the art of transitioning with a sprinkle of courage and a dash of humor!
The world of career transitions is a wild ride, especially when the news is filled with layoffs and uncertainty. In our recent chat with career coach Molly Conlon Peterson, we unpack the emotional rollercoaster that comes with losing a job and how to navigate it with grace. Molly emphasizes that it’s completely normal to feel all sorts of emotions when faced with a layoff—shock, anger, confusion—you name it. But here’s the deal: instead of rushing into the job market, we should take a moment to collect our thoughts and really think about what we want next. It’s about hitting the pause button to dream a little, to explore what feels right for us, and to lay the groundwork for a successful job search.
As the conversation unfolds, we dive into the nitty-gritty of what to do after a layoff. Molly shares that it’s crucial to do some inner work first—getting clear on your skills, your values, and what you want to achieve in your next role. She introduces the concept of a 'Best Self Profile' to help you articulate your strengths and what you’re looking for moving forward. And while it’s tempting to throw your resume at every job out there, Molly suggests a more strategic approach: take your time, understand what you truly want, and craft your story to align with that vision. In this job market, it’s not just about getting a job; it’s about getting the right job that fits you like a glove.
Then, we pivot to the power of networking and how to leverage connections effectively. Instead of the old 'I need a job' line, Molly encourages a more thoughtful approach: be specific about what you need and how others can help you. Whether it’s asking for introductions or advice, networking should feel like a supportive conversation rather than a transactional exchange. Lastly, both Kent and Molly agree that showing compassion and empathy during these times is crucial—not just for those who are laid off but also for those left behind. We all have a role to play in supporting each other through these transitions, fostering a community that uplifts and empowers. So whether you're navigating your own career storm or helping a friend, remember: take it slow, stay connected, and keep the faith that the right opportunity is just around the corner.
Takeaways:
- Taking a moment to collect your feelings can set the stage for better decision-making in career transitions.
- Slowing down the job search process can lead to landing in a better place and being more prepared.
- Understanding your strengths, values, and what you truly enjoy doing is...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Take a moment to reallycollect yourself and feel what you're
feeling. Then you can start tolay that foundation of some of that
inner work and start to dreamabout, what would I like to have
happen? What's possible? Whatdo I like to do best? I would just
also say I think people startto feel that panicky feeling of I
just need to land. I just needto get a job. And by slowing it down
(00:27):
a little bit, you're probablygoing to land in a better place.
You're going to show up inthose meetings in a better place.
You're going to be moreprepared, you're going to have more
thoughtful questions, you'regoing to have a more thoughtful story
to tell. And so it's thatcounterintuitive of go slow to go
fast.
Hi there and welcome to theStep up expert Voices for Leadership
(00:49):
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing. As a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
(01:12):
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everybody.Today we're going to do a little
(01:33):
bit of a departure from ourusual, you know, focus on leadership
and we're going to talk alittle bit about being in career
transition. You know, we'lltalk a little bit more about this,
but there's been a lot of newsas of late today that we're recording.
It is November 3rd. Last week,Target Corporation. In my own backyard,
I'm in Molly's backyard, whoI'm going to introduce here in just
a second. You laid off aboutabout a thousand people plus 800
(01:57):
unfilled roles are going tocontinue to go unfilled. Same week,
Amazon announced somewherearound the potential of 30,000 layoffs.
Sounds like they executedabout 14,000 last week. And I think
this has been on my mind. AndMolly and I were set to record today.
Again, I'm going to introduceMolly in just a second and she sent
me an email and she's like,hey, do you want to talk about career
(02:19):
transitions. That's actually abig, you know, part of what I do.
And I said, well, this is aleadership podcast. But then I'm
reminded of a saying that mywife and I have from time to time
when we feel a little rulebound on things where it's like,
wait a second, I'm the adult.I get to make the rule.
Right?
And so I sort of said to Mollyover email, I said, well, this is
(02:43):
what my podcast is usuallyabout, but I guess I created that
rule, and I can break thatrule anytime I want. So today we're
going to be talking aboutcareer transitions. And with me for
this conversation today isMolly Conlon Peterson. She's an executive
and career coach and founderof the Daring Venture. Thrilled to
have you on, and thank you forprompting this conversation today.
(03:04):
Thank you. Thank you, Kent.It's lovely to be here, and I really
appreciate the invite. I thinkthis topic is really relevant given
what's going on right now. Andso I'm excited to be here. And also,
yeah, just to share somesupport for people, because I think
a lot of people are out therefeeling pretty unsettled. And.
(03:25):
Yeah, and I would add to that,too, you know, feeling unsettled
if you've gotten theannouncement or the, you know, that
your job is ended or coming toan end, or even the looming, maybe
your job could come to an endat any moment kind of feeling, or
even those of us out here whoare like, what can I do? I. I don't
(03:45):
have a job. I can't give you ajob, but I want to help in some way.
So I have a feeling ourconversation will cover the gamut
here. But before we get intothat, Molly, I want to hear a little
bit about your journey, careerarc, you know, and sort of what land,
you know, bring us. Bring usup to date with and what you're doing.
Yeah. Thank you for asking. SoI have been doing career coaching
(04:07):
and transition work for thepast 28 years. I'm founder of an
organization called the DaringVenture. And I'll. I'll just share
with you a little bit abouthow I got started. So I spent the
first 10 years of my career inselling advertising for arts publications,
for newspapers, magazines, andthen arts publications. And I was
(04:30):
doing this work.
I can see the naturaltransition already.
How does she get here? Howdoes that work? And so, you know,
I. I want to say this becauseI think a lot of times people are
in a role where it looksreally good on the outside. Like,
I was working on streetcommission. I was Making great money.
I had a downtown, like,there's all these outer things that
(04:51):
looked really cool and fun andinside, quietly, I just felt such
a discontent. And so I startedkind of looking around, trying to
figure out, do I want to be acounselor? Do I want to be. I really
was into, you know, kind offigure out meaning and purpose for
people. And then this thinghappened. A friend of mine, a very.
(05:11):
One of my very best friends,got laid off and she got matched
up with a career coach at anorganization, a nonprofit organization
that's still in existencetoday. It's called Women Venture.
And so she, she came home fromher first meeting. We were roommates
at the time. And she said,this woman has your job, you need
to go meet with her. And so Idid. I called her up, I went and
(05:37):
met with her and she said, youknow, we have volunteer opportunities.
And it was one of those thingswhere, you know, it doesn't happen
very often, but you, when youmeet somebody and you talk to them
and you're like, this is whatI want to do. This is exactly. I
had that feeling. And so Istarted volunteering there because
I had a lot of like, freedomin my schedule. I started volunteering
(05:58):
there. I was doing coaching,then I was teaching classes, and
then I started teachinganother class. So I, and I say this
out loud because I thinksometimes when people are making
transitions, it's like, well,how do I get experience and, and
go and try some things out andvolunteer and put your skills to
use and test drive it? And bydoing that, I got confirmation. And
(06:24):
then I ended up changing my. Iwas in math, getting a graduate degree
at the time, and I changed mypath. And lo and behold, a job opened
up there and I was clearly notthe most qualified person. And I
got it because I was basicallydoing the role. And, and it was another.
(06:48):
There is another piece tothis. And I, I just want to say this
out loud because I think thisis what scares a lot of people from
making changes too, is it wasa pretty significant pay cut. And
I was like, okay, I am goingto bite the bullet. I'm going to
figure this out. And. And Idid. So I did this for about five
years and it's kind of where Icut my teeth and learned some skills.
(07:10):
I finished my master's degree,got my coaching certification. And
then what happened is thatthere was a series of layoffs in,
in our organization and my gymwas part time. It was after 9 11.
And I decided I had had thisdream of starting my own practice.
So. So I Decided to take theleap of faith, but I wanted to do
(07:34):
it wisely. So I ended up.Placement was really hot at the time.
A lot of people were gettinglaid off. Not dissimilar to what's
happening now. So I ended upnegotiating this role with an L placement
organization where I wouldwork for them part time and then
I would see my own clientspart time. And we came to an agreement
(07:55):
and it worked beautifully forabout 10 years. So that is kind of
how I got going on doingcareer transition work. And I just.
There was a couple highlightsthat I want to just point out because
I think they're kind of cool.I think, you know, one of the things
that, that was fun to work on.There was a. Because a lot of people
(08:17):
at Midlife are trying tofigure out. I think a lot of people
like at Target right now werethere's higher level executives.
They're like, okay, I'm notquite to the retirement age, but
I need to find somethingthat's meaningful and purposeful
and practical, probably makesome money or maybe I can partly
retire. So figuring out likethat next chapter of what that's
(08:40):
going to look like, it's thatencore career planning. I was involved
pretty heavily with the guywho invented gps, started this Empowered
Careers in California and itwas a partnership with UCLA and we
developed a program formidlife career changers. And we're
coaching those, those changersand then kind of figuring out of
(09:02):
some structures to put inplace for them. So that was, that
was one startup and then theother one that was really kind of
fun was there's anorganization called Social Finance
sofi. They're out ofCalifornia and there's a loan company
and they provide. They startedproviding career transition services
to everyone who was a memberbecause they thought, well, if people
(09:25):
get back to work earlier thenthey're not, not going to have a
problem with loans. And thenif people have a good career TRA
trajectory, they're going tomake probably more money and then
they're going to buy a houseand then they're going to feel loyalty.
So it was really a brilliantidea. So we got, there were a couple
of us that brought it gotbrought in to kind of build that
business up and to really kindof do some cool things about how
(09:48):
do you find meaningful work,how do you ask for a raise, how do
you, you know, make thosetransitions that are going to really
take you to the next level interms of, of your work? So yeah,
so that's a little bit aboutmy, my journey. I, I've had my own
business now since, oh gosh,since 2002.
(10:09):
Oh wow.
Yep. And then the, the otherpiece that I guess I want to bring
in today that's, that's prettymeaningful is about 12 years ago
I took a little bit of a turnand started. There's a woman by the
name of Dr. Brene Brown who'spretty well known, she's written
a bunch of books. I went andwas a huge fan of hers and went and
(10:32):
got certified in her work andstarted a second business called
the Daring Venture which isnow kind of where I've rolled everything
into. It's a partner. And westarted bringing that work to leaders
and teams. It was a programcalled Dare to Lead and it was really
transformational work, couragebuilding skills. And one of the kind
(10:54):
of the primary premises ofBernays, you know, work in that is,
is, you know, when you thinkabout being courageous and doing
something that feels out ofyour comfort zone, it's vulnerability,
right? Risk, emotionalexposure with no guarantee really
(11:14):
what job search is all about.And it's when you're about to do
those things, it's not fearthat holds you back. It's those moments
of how do you self protectthose pattern ways that we self protect
when we feel vulnerable andhow do you then build those skills,
those small moments of courageso that you can do the thing you
(11:38):
really want to do and get pastthose feelings of okay, this is my
pattern, this is what I do.This is how I show up in these situations
and start to, you know, dothose small things that actually
move forward. And that's truein leadership, that's true in life,
that's true in career change.And I really think that's the piece
(12:00):
that for a lot of people, youknow, we can do a roadmap of how
do you do a career change. Butman, career, career, I mean this
is hard work. This is scarywork. It's scary for people to be
in transition. There's a lotof feelings and emotions. You're
(12:20):
putting yourself out there inways that require resilience and
it's, it's, it's courage.Right. And so this, this work, I
feel like this, this is aculmination, right, of career transition
stuff. And then the courageand those get combined to be a really
kind of way that we can helppeople transform.
(12:43):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Ithink and, and I'd be shocked if
anyone listening doesn't knowwho Brene Brown is. Given, given
the audience and having beenon the job market myself a number
of times in my career. I 100agree with what you're saying here
in terms of just the, there'sthis element of courage, the, you
(13:06):
know, this, the need to, Ithink there's even a book titled
this and I'm not necessarilytrying to quote that, but the, the
ability to feel the fear anddo it anyway right around certain
things. Like, like networking,for example. I think a lot of people,
I think, have a bad impressionof what good networking actually
is. And even if you have asense of what good networking is
(13:31):
and could look like, it'sstill a, it's a, you still have to,
I don't know, for lack of abetter way to put it, like, you still
have to swallow some level ofpride in order to put yourself out
there. Right. So let me,let's, let's get into this because,
you know, let me add a littleextra context too because I, I was
just looking at this last weekand I don't, I'm not going to pull
(13:52):
it all up so I'm not going tobe able to quote it all correctly.
But you know, you've got,while in the Twin Cities, where I
believe you're located heretoo, right? Yeah. So while in the
Twin Cities, the announcementabout Target last week was pretty
big. It is actually somewherein the middle of the pack, if not
lower third of the pack interms of layoffs this year. Right.
(14:13):
And I think just since Junewith companies that are large enough
to be remarkable ornewsworthy, you know, we are approaching,
you know, I think it's likeover 170,000 layoffs. Right. So if
you, if you think about thatfor a minute and think about like
(14:34):
the amount of small to midsized companies that maybe are not
big enough or don't have bigenough names behind them to be remarkable
or newsworthy, my guess is thenumber of layoffs just since June
is probably well over 200,000.Right. And you know, that, that number
hit me really hard last week.You know, I'm trying to think about,
(14:55):
you know, what can I do? I'mnot a career coach. I learned a lot
of valuable lessons aboutnetworking way back when. I, you
know, more than like, youknow, probably 12 years ago or more
when I was really first tryingto leave consulting and get into
HR and interestingly going,you know, from HR to now being, you
know, solo consultant,entrepreneur, however you want to
(15:17):
word that interesting in someregards how networking and sales
are very much veryinterrelated, if not identical. You
know, like, that's one thingI'm thinking about is like how you
know, how can I help peoplelearn how to network better or things
like that? But I don't want tobarrel down that topic yet necessarily.
But, you know, I think it waswhen, when you reached out on Friday
(15:39):
before we were recording andyou were like, hey, you know, I think
you must have seen somethingthat I posted about it. And you're
like, hey, you want to havethat conversation instead? And I
was like, I think just feltcompelled to say, yeah, so where
do you want to start theconversation about, you know, maybe
we start with that oh, shitmoment of I got the 15 minute meeting
(16:01):
on my calendar. You know,maybe we take it from there.
And I just want to say, like,like my heart goes out to so many
people that are in this, inthis boat. And I think one of the
things when you are in thisboat, there's shock, there's, you
know, anger, disbelief. All ofthose feelings are here, especially,
(16:23):
you know, what's going onbecause so many people are getting
laid off on one hand. Itnormalizes it. And so there's like
this feeling of like, hey, I'mnot alone. Every, this is happening
to everyone because I thinkthere's this piece of, am I not good
enough? Why did they pick me?And then, then there's also this
like, fear of like, oh mygosh, everybody's flooding the job
(16:43):
market right now. So I think Ijust, I just want to say that out
lo. So give yourself a beat tofeel what you're feeling. Get some
support, give yourself somegrace, you know, I think, you know,
so many people say, well, yougot to get out there right away and
get networking. And I wouldsay just take a moment, you know,
to really collect yourselfand, and, and feel what you're feeling.
(17:06):
And then, then you can startto lay that foundation of some of
that inner work and start todream about, you know, okay, what,
what, what would I like tohave happen, you know, what, what's
possible? What do I like to dobest? And I think I, I would just
also say, I think peoplestart, start to feel that panicky
feeling of I just need toland, I just need to get a job. And,
(17:29):
and by slowing it down alittle bit, you're probably going
to land in a better place.You're going to show up in those
meetings in a better place.You're going to be more prepared,
you're going to have morethoughtful questions, you're going
to have a more thoughtfulstory to tell. And so it's that counterintuitive
of go slow, to go fast andstart think about those, those do
(17:51):
that. Like I have a best selfprofile. You know, it's skills, values,
strengths, personality,imaginary lives. That's a really
fun one. Purpose, you know,what are the practical needs and
to kind of just go throughthose things, to just refresh because
it might be different todaythan it was, you know, five years
ago or what you last lookedfor a job.
(18:14):
Right, right. Yeah. Well, letme, you know, my number one recommendation
for people is if you wereoffered outplacement service, transition
service, take it. Like, don't,don't sit on that. And I'm going
to give like my mischievousreason first and foremost is more
(18:34):
often than not, if you do notlike. So I, I both used and I worked
for Lee Hecheck Terracin for avery short amount of time as a transition
coach. So I do have someexperience as a transition coach,
even though it's notnecessarily what I do. Although I
would say I always have likeone person that I'm coaching in transition
more as like out of care thanwhat it is that I'm doing. But in
(18:56):
some cases, the way thesecontracts work with these outplacement
firms are the company doesn'tpay if you don't actually call and
initiate and, and act activatethat service. So there's a, there's
a mischievous part of me thatalways says, like, hey, go find out
what the minimum is that youneed to do to make sure your former
(19:16):
employer pays for this. Right.But that's just me being kind of
snarky. But at the very least,most of these, at the very least
give a resume review, if not aresume rewrite. And, and that in
and of itself, if you. BecauseI think one of the things that I
keep seeing in these, for me,gut wrenching LinkedIn posts that
(19:39):
I see from folks is peoplewith 15 to 25 years. I mean there's
plenty of people with lessthan 15 who are being laid off four
years, five years or less.Yes. But you know, I'm thinking about
these folks who are in that 15to 25 year mark who may have not
put a resume together in 20years, who haven't interviewed with
(20:00):
somebody they don't knowalready in 20 years. Right. And so
even just this, I, I alwayssay the resume reviewer rewrite is
probably in the ballpark ofthree to five hundred dollars in
value that your outgoingemployer is essentially paying for.
Right. So I always say firstand foremost, if you're being offered
(20:20):
transition services, take it.Right? Do it. If, if, if it's with,
you know, sometimes there's nochoice. It's. Here's who we use.
That's the package. And I, Iwager in some. There's probably some
cases where there's someflexibility of we will pay for a
transition service, and youmight need to do some legwork to
(20:40):
find someone. But I think thatwould probably be more the exception
than the rule, I think morecompanies. Here's who we work with,
and here's your. You have thismany days to activate it.
That's exactly.
Well, how would you. Yeah, howdo you want to.
I. I agree with you. I mean,that's a service. You're getting
support, and you should. Ifyou have a service that's already
(21:01):
in place, you shouldabsolutely take advantage of that
because they're going tosupport you in lots of different
ways. And, you know, if. Ifyou have an amount of money, I mean,
I've had clients come to methat say, hey, I got assigned to
this person, but I'd ratherwork with you. And I negotiated that
with my employer. And so youcan do exactly what you just said
(21:26):
if you're so inclined, but ifyou have free career transition services,
100%, because that's a supportsystem and that structure, and that's
kind of what you need rightnow, is somebody to kind of guide
you through this process andhelp you be a thought partner and
help you brainstorm and thinkthings through and. And just revisit
all those elements of. Of.Because you're. You're in it, and
(21:50):
it's hard to be outside ofyourself, to have somebody that can
kind of take you through it.
Yeah. So let me, Let me shoveus forward a little bit, because
I, I think this is a. A uniqueconversation for. For my podcast,
at least. All right, so you'rea part of someone. You know, you're
part of a group who may havegotten laid off last month. Right.
(22:13):
So it's. You're maybe about aweek in to. Either your job has already
ended or you have an end datelisted. Maybe you're still technically
transitioning out. What shouldpeople be doing?
Yeah, well, to your point,take a beat. I like that, for sure.
Get a journal, start to writedown things because, you know, capture,
(22:36):
you know, what do I love to dothe most? You know, what do I want
to do next? What's possible,what's most important. You know,
either talk that through withsomebody or, you know, write it down
for yourself and then keep alist of ideas and options that you
think you might want to checkout. I also highly recommend just
(22:57):
revisiting some of Thoseassessments. The Myers Briggs is
awesome because it actuallyhas lists of careers that you may
not have even thought aboutthat can open up possibilities or
confirm like, oh yeah, thatdoes make sense based on my Myers
Briggs or the strengthsfinder. Because what you really want
to do is leave with your, Beable to tell your story and be able
(23:20):
to say, here's what I've done,here's what I do really well. So
list out some of thoseaccomplishments that you're most
proud of. That can also bereally helpful. And then here's kind
of what I want to do next andstart to just kind of put that framework
together and start to makelists of people. But you don't have
(23:40):
to, like, at this point,you're doing that inner work of you
want to get yourself online.Figure it out first so that those
conversations, you know, like70% of jobs are found through networking.
I think that number has goneup now because of all the easy, Easy
app, you know.
Yep.
And.
And just how many people areon the market too. Right. And you
(24:03):
probably see a bit more ofthis given, you know, what's in your
algorithm compared to mine.But I know there's a lot of talk
about how AI has, is beingused for helping people tweak their
resume, you know, to, to beat.Beat the applicant tracking system.
Right. Which interestingly, wesay AI about everything. It's. It's
(24:27):
large language models, it'smachine learning. Right. Which applicant
tracking systems have beenusing for years. Right. Scanning
resumes for keywords. Right.And that can be really tricky. And
not that I want to dive intothis yet, but that can be really
tricky because what the wordsyour company uses for something might
be very different from, youknow, the words another company uses
(24:50):
for something. Right. And so,and it can be a lot, you know, if,
if people are applying to. SoI'm not really talking about the
people who were laid off lastweek at this moment, but people who
I. I've seen this throughoutthis, through 2025 is, you know,
I've applied to tens tohundreds of, you know, jobs. Right.
(25:11):
And that to be expected tocustomize your resume to 100 applications.
Right. Is a lot. Right. So onthe one hand, and I didn't want to
get into this, but here I amgetting into it because there was
something else I wanted totalk about, but I would, I would
say you should be using, Imean, that makes light work. Right.
(25:31):
If you're using AI. Right. Asa thought partner, being able to
say, here's this job posting,here's my Resume, don't have it do
the work for you, actually askit to make recommendations to you
for you to do. That way youknow what's being tweaked and what's
not. But saying like, what doyou recommend I update specifically
(25:52):
in my resume, you know, tohelp match the language of the company
or whatever.
I, I think you're bringing upa great. I mean, AI is a tool. It,
it, it can be incredibly. Iwas just at a career conference and
we were talking about, youknow, how do you prompt it for all
these different things, likeprepping for interviews, you know,
this exactly what you justsaid. Take the job description, take
(26:14):
your resume prompted into AI.And then, you know, that's a jumping
off point. So AI can beincredibly helpful. And the flip
side of that is that noweverybody, it's so easy to apply
for all of these jobs becauseyou can just take these two things
and then a lot of the jobresumes look alike for recruiters.
(26:39):
Yeah. And this is where Ithink you had said something, and
here's. Let me go back to itnow. You had said something about
the percentage of jobs thatare found through your network versus
applying and the quote,unquote, hidden job market.
Right.
And I honestly thought thatwas a bit of hui until I became a
career coach. And out of the,you know, I probably had 100 or some
(27:01):
odd people that I wascoaching. And, you know, sure enough,
I mean, I don't have thenumbers in my head, but a number
of them got a job throughtheir network. Right. And if not,
kind of going back to thispoint about everyone, you know, if
everyone's using chat GPT totweak their resume, everybody's resumes
are looking the same. Havingsomeone walk your resume to the hiring
(27:24):
manager, if not the recruiter,is one way to at least, you know,
it can at least fast track aphone call. But I would say that
that's the, you know, kind ofgetting back to the, you know, importance
of networking, which I want tomake sure we dive into. Let me back
up one more step and say, butfirst, you said first, take a beat.
There's some work, there'ssome inner work you can do to kind
(27:47):
of think about who you want tobe, what you want, what really fires
you up. I also think what'sinteresting in this day and age is
like, do I make a LinkedInannouncement or not? Right. And my
personal opinion on that iswhen you're a part of an unremarkable
layoff, meaning it's notnewsworthy, I always Encourage people
(28:09):
to wait a little bit, youknow, before they were to make an
announcement, just startnetworking. But when with these mass
layoffs, I have a completely180 opinion on that is it is newsworthy.
People know, it tends to bepretty common knowledge that these
are deep cuts that have littleto do with performance. And so in
(28:29):
these cases I say put, put thegreen banner up on LinkedIn. Make,
you know, make some kind ofannouncement in this case because
people do want to help. Right.And if they don't know, they might
not know to help. Right. ButI'd love to get you, what are your
thoughts on do you make.
I think that your, your pointis a good one. Like there's these
(28:49):
mass layoffs. People want tohelp. People are, I mean I think
all of our hearts are goingout to people who are laid off right
now. We want, everybody wantsto help. And so it, it's, it's as
the person that got laid upgetting really clear about how can
people help. You tell peoplehow they can help, like being really
specific about, like if I'mmeeting with this person, what would
(29:10):
be how could they specificallyhelp me? And getting that clear in
your mind before you do thereach out before you, you know, and,
and you might be exploringfive or six different things. But
then, and I suggest getting itlike a spreadsheet together because
then you can get clearer onwho am I.
Reaching out to for thelisteners I am vigorously, what is
(29:33):
my ask from.
Them, what's my goal with thisconversation? And then who do they
refer me to? Because, youknow, usually it's like, hey, here's
my situation, here's what Ilove to do, here's what I'm looking
to do next. And here's, youknow, here's kind of who I want to
talk to or get introduced toor explore more in it. And then making
sure that those people getfollowed back up with.
(29:59):
Yeah, let me, let me, let meadd to that because I'm going to
ask you some targetedquestions because I think we're on
the networking, which I wantedto make sure we got on the networking.
And I want to ask you sometargeted questions here, which is,
but I want to add to thetracking thing. Best advice I ever
got was to start tracking. AndI, I would add yes, and to everything
you said here. But also Iwould add when did.
I talk to this person?
(30:19):
Like write that date down andwas there any kind of follow up discussed
in the call? Like did theysay, hey, you know, reach back out
to me in a month, right Thenadd a column, you know, put this
in Excel, add a column forthat and say, you know, I'm going
to reach back out to thisperson. This is the date, you know,
we agreed upon. Put that datein there and kind of use this as
(30:40):
like essentially for thosesalespeople on the call, we're kind
of talking about a personalCRM, essentially. Right. Is who did
I talk to? All right, butlet's, let's break down networking
for a minute because I thinkthis is really, it's really hard
for people both getting thecourage up to reach out and ask someone
for their time, but alsofiguring out what not to do and what
(31:03):
to do in a networking call. Solet me, let me start with. Because
I think people have, I, I haverun into more people who have a bad
impression of networking thana good. Right. And so let's start
with what not to do. You knowwhat, what's your advice on? Don't
do this in a networking call.Then we'll get into the. Then, you
know, get right into the. Butwhat should they do?
(31:26):
Well, I mean, I think that thefirst thing is, is if you are just
laid up, people will say,well, just reach out to your network.
And it's a big, I got laidoff. I need a job. Well, that's not
helpful. Right? Nobody's justsitting around thinking, oh, I've
got a job for this person.Right. And, and so it's being really
specific with each individualabout what can they do to help and
(31:49):
then making sure you followup. If they've given you a referral,
there's nothing worse thansomebody helping you. And then they're
giving, they're giving you areferral and you never, they never
hear from you again. So makingsure you. Hey, I met with Joe Jones
today. He was fantastic. Thankyou so much for, for advocating for
me. Here's my next step. Takethem. Don't, don't just let them
(32:12):
hang. Make sure you're takingthem on the journey with you and
that they can feel a part ofhelping you. If that's then. And
then what can you do for them?Like, because I feel like, you know,
sometimes it's, I thinknetworking gets a bad rap because
it's all about me, what do Ineed? And, and sometimes you might
(32:32):
have connections or ideas oreven it might be something personal
of making it a two way streetso it doesn't feel transactional.
Yeah. Okay. I want to dissectsome of these elements because I
want to add one to the don'tlist, which I Think is okay.
I went through to the do's,didn't I?
You did. It's okay. I like itthough. You're a coach. You are forward
(32:55):
focused. You are not in thepast, but I think it's implied in
what you said, which is we'renot going to ask for a job. Right.
When we reach out to someone,we are not asking them for a job.
Right.
No, we are reconnecting.Right. We are, you know, perhaps
telling our story of what,what happened to me, which I'd love
(33:16):
to get your thoughts on thatbecause I, I, I always struggle with
helping people with that. But,and I have some ideas on. Especially
if you're interested in jobsat that person's company. I certainly
have ideas on like, well, whatare some of the questions you should
ask? But I think one of thebest parts that, and this is like
always do this that I alwayssay, which is I always say you should
(33:39):
ask for at least twoconnections right towards, towards
the end of the call. Is thereany, you know, it could be, you know,
is there one or two people youthink I should get to know at your
company or. And the morespecific you can make it. Right.
Better. Right. I always sayeveryone's ask is no one's asked.
Such a broad ask doesn't help.You're putting the labor like, is
(33:59):
there anyone you think Ishould get to know? Well, the world
becomes the possibility thereversus saying, let's say I'm in marketing.
Right. Be more specific. Isthere anyone in marketing that you
think I should get to know? Isthere anyone in. And now it's not.
I'll have to go to my, Let mego to HR because that's my real background
to say, like, is there anyonein. Instead of hr, let's keep getting
(34:23):
narrow. Is there anyone inlearning and development that you
think I should get to know?
Right.
And then, and I love yoursuggestion here of also. But follow
up, let them know, hey, I didtalk to so and so that you connected
with me with. Thank you somuch. Here's where I'm at, you know,
bringing, bringing peoplealong because you never know.
Yes.
Just like we're seeing rightnow too. You never know when, you
(34:44):
never know when people aregoing to get laid off. You never
know when openings are goingto come around. Sometimes people
you're talking to don't knowand suddenly three weeks down the
road, four weeks down theroad, something opened up and you've
been in contact and you mightpop, you know, you might be, might
come to mind for that person.So they can feed back how. What,
(35:05):
what kind of advice do yougive people on when it comes to networking?
I'm gonna stick with this fora minute here of like, what should
they be saying and asking.Right. Other than four connections,
you know, and oh, I also lovehow you said offer something.
Right.
And that can be hard.
Yeah.
What do you have to offer?Well, it can simply just be, let
me know if there's anything Ican do for you. I've even gone to,
(35:30):
if I'm talking to someone intalent management, I might say, hey,
I've been at, you know, I'vebeen at the big firm, you know, I've
been at Korn Ferry. I've seentalent reviews implemented across
three different companies inthree completely different ways.
If you ever want to pick mybrain, you know, about what I've
seen, just let me know. Right?So you. It is not a problem to say,
if there's anything I can do,let me know. Similar, similar to
(35:54):
asking for connections. If youcan make it more specific in any
way, that's always great. ButI think people, I've always found,
even if all you can say is, isthere anything I can do for you?
People appreciate that.
They do, they do. And it makesit a two way street. And you can
even pick up on somethinglike, hey, they, they're, you know,
(36:14):
in this role, there's anarticle I could send them or there's
a, you know, a podcast I couldsend them. It doesn't have to be
something that costs money,but it's just a thoughtfulness piece.
Your point is a great one. Imean, you have to be specific and
you have to be clear. And thenI would just maybe add on, is it,
is this a networking meetingor is this an informational interview?
(36:37):
And those are different thingsand they're both valuable. And I
think just set it up up front,Front. Like, what am I, Is this a,
is a networking, am I, youknow, kind of brainstorming and getting
information and maybepotential contacts, or am I informational
interviewing you to find outwhat does the day to day of this
role look like? And they'reboth, both valuable for different
(36:59):
reasons.
So when would you want to doone versus the other?
Well, I mean, I think thatyour point, like, if you're, I, I
just had a client that was inlike a brand manager in a beauty
industry and she wanted totransition to healthcare. So she's
like, how are my skills gonnatrans translate? And so before she
(37:20):
even started that networkingpiece, she's like, I need to do some
informational interviews tosee what the lay of the land is,
how does this work? How willthis transfer? What things do I need
to be talking about? Thelanguage. And I think it can also
be helpful if you see an openrole and you're like, I need to know
about the culture of thiscompany. So if there's some unanswered
(37:41):
questions, it can be a reallygreat way to get to know the people
that are actually probablygoing to maybe potentially open doors
for you in the future.
Right. Well, and I even say topeople like, pretend you still have
a job in your head for aminute and that it would take a lot
to pull you, to recruit youaway. What are the questions? If
(38:01):
that were the scenario thatyou would want to know about that
company, that culture, thatdepartment or division or what have
you, you know, and ask thosequestions, right? Like, how is that
entire division organized? Youknow, where do decision rights land?
How are the stakeholderrelationships in that company? But
(38:23):
ask the questions from a sortof mentality of, I am employed, and
these questions would need tobe answered to my, like, satisfaction
for me to want to leave.
Yes. I love that framework.You know that because you're, you're
just curious. It's a curiosityabout the business and about how
they run the business andabout what, like your. To your point,
(38:45):
how is, how is thisstrategically set up? What are their
goals for the future? What'sthe culture like? You know, all of
those kinds of things can be.And then it can be building on, you
know, a business conversation.So it's not about. I'm just, you
know, here to get it. It'slike we can be thought partnering
(39:05):
on things or sharing ideas,and that can be a really rich conversation,
too, that actually helpspeople see who you are.
Yeah. What. What else is topof mind for you with kind of this
news coming out and wherepeople might be?
Well, I think your point is agood one. Just like, how do we support
people that are in this spotand then the people that are in the
(39:28):
spot. So I guess there's acouple categories, right? There's
people that are in the spotthat need help and being able to
have some courage to take abeat, really clarify your message,
get clear on who you want totalk to, but just also think about
being in this. Like, this is.This is hard work and it may take
(39:50):
some time. And so how do youbuild some support structure around
you? How do you, you know,have, you know, people in your life
that can cheer you on when youknow it doesn't work out? And Kind
of guide you through aprocess. So if you have outplacement,
that's wonderful. I, I dooutplacement with companies too.
But, but finding your peoplethat can support you. And, and the
(40:12):
thing is a lot of people thatare laid off together can do that,
a lot of that for each otheras well.
Yeah.
You've got a group of friendsthat are all at Target. You guys
can, you know, be that, besupporting each other. And in the
process.
I want to add on, there's onething you said which was. But it
made me think of at a certainpoint there will be a lot of diminishing
(40:36):
returns in terms of how manyhours you sit in front of your computer
trying to manifest a jobopening to.
Right.
Like yes. So I would say it's,it's like, sure, dive in and spend
a huge chunk of time in yourfirst couple of weeks because there's
a lot. If you haven't been onthe job market, there's a lot to
absorb. There's a lot of, Alot of jobs that have been sitting
out there and hanging outthere. Whether or not they're actually
(40:56):
still available, who knows.But you know, but after, I would
say in my, my opinion aftertwo or three weeks and even that's
probably too long to behonest, but you know, there's sort
of a lot of diminishingreturns of sitting in front of your
computer computer for eighthours every day and, and probably
not the healthiest, you know,thing to do right. After a certain
(41:21):
point.
100 agree. And, and this iswhy I like start. Maybe this is.
There's is was like a littlebit of a freedom in that right. Of
saying okay, I know in my headI think sitting in front of my computer
is productive because that'swhat I've been doing all day. But
it's not. And so getting outthere, like maybe take a while. I've
(41:42):
had one of the things I alwayssay to clients is volunteer even
like five hours a week. Get infront of some new people, start to
build your networks, get intoball nets and professional associations
or you know, network. Findsome ways to get involved in your
community or, or volunteer.You have space now in your, your
day. So find some ways toconnect, to give back, to test drive
(42:06):
some ideas. You know, ifyou're meeting with someone, say
hey you know what, I have sometime available. I would love to,
you know, is there a smallproject I could just take on? Yeah.
So finding small ways to getin to organizations and to be, you
know, there's that Wholeconcept of the luck surface. Right.
And it's like the more you putyourself out there, the more that
(42:28):
you have conversations withpeople, the more that you are in
person with people, probablyyour chances are going to go up.
Yeah, Yeah. I would sayprepare yourself for weekends being
kind of hard. Right. Without intention.
Right.
Because you, you feel some,some semblance of control some Monday
(42:52):
through Friday while, youknow, companies are operating and
recruiters might be looking atyour applications and you message
people and maybe they'rereplying from a networking or informational
interviewing perspective. ButI, I, I would, in my own experience.
Right. This is probably one ofthe more critical times to be thoughtful
and intentional about whatyour Saturday and Sunday consist
(43:15):
of. Like, make some plans, dosome stuff like get together with
friends, schedule play datesfor your kids, you know, get out
of your house. Because thatwas always the heart. Like, weekends
were always really hard for mewhen I was between jobs. It was just
like, like there's, like, itfelt like everything was coming to
a screeching halt for twodays. Like, everything, everything
(43:37):
that I was focused on, whichwas, you know, next.
Right. No, I think this issuch good advice, Kent. You know,
get out of your house, beconnecting with people. Because it
is, it doesn't necessarilyhave to be a professional connection,
either of. And it just, it's,it's. I think your biggest job is
how do I want to show up?Because if you're in that spot of,
(43:58):
oh, my gosh, I feel stuck, Ifeel I'm in despair, and you're just
staying in your house in frontof your computer, that's really tough.
It's really tough to find ajob that way. And so it's giving
yourself permission to be out,to be connecting with people, to
be having some structure,maybe a walk every day at a certain
time, you meet friends, youknow, for coffee once a week, or
(44:22):
working outside of the house,you know, having some practices and
structure to your day, becauseI think that's a big one for people.
You know, what are you goingto do every day in the morning? So
that's figured out. I'm goingto, you know, take the dog for a
walk. I'm going to write downeverything I'm grateful for. I am
going to be in meditation orprayer or whatever, but, you know,
(44:46):
spending some time that youcan ground yourself with some structure
and some rituals in your dayand in your week.
Okay, here's, here's what I'mgonna do because we have a little
more time to keep talking.
Yeah.
I feel. And yet I'm watchingthe timer for my usual episode length
and I'm like, okay, what do wedo here? Here's what we're gonna
(45:07):
do. We're gonna do this isgonna become a two episode recording,
my first ever. So. But here's,but let's, let's wrap up episode
number one with. Because Ithink right now we've talked about,
you've been laid off. Takesome time. Talked a little bit about
resumes, we've talked a littlebit about networking and kind of
taking care of yourself. Ithink there's a bit more for us to
(45:27):
probably talk a little bitabout. But when it comes to this
kind of, I would say thisfirst half, so to speak, of what
we're talking about. What's.And we'll try to keep it really tight.
What's one piece of advice youhave for job seekers and what's one
piece of advice you have forpeople who are wondering how I can
help?
(45:48):
Yeah, well, so I would say forjob seekers, don't let this scare
you because don't let theexternal circumstances get in the
way of your meaning, yourpurpose, what you're here to do,
and trust the process. Becauseeven in times where there's a lot
(46:08):
of people laid off, and I'vebeen doing this a really long time,
I know that people usually endup in a better place than, than.
And it can be scary and it isgoing to require you stepping out
of your comfort zone. But youjust, just trust that if you're listening
and you're doing that innerwork and the outer work, that you
will land in a good spot, thatit is going to happen. So I think
(46:32):
that's a big piece because itfeels scary. And so just trust the
process and trust that youwill. And I think for people that
are in jobs, you know, I thinkthat this is scary for them too because
they're absorbing the factthat a lot of people have left the
organization. The culture ischanging. And so there's, I think
(46:52):
it just collectively right nowfor all of us, we need to be in a
place of compassion andempathy. And how can I help my neighbor
and how can I support anyone?Because we're all kind of in it,
you know, whether you're intransition or you've been left behind,
because that's a wholedifferent thing too. That's scary
too. And waiting maybe for theother shoe to drop.
(47:15):
Yeah, let me, let me wrap usthere for, for part one. So thank
you all. And you know what Iwould say is next week, you know,
the week after you'relistening to this, we're gonna drop
part two. That brings us tothe end of our episode. Thanks for
listening. I'd encourage youto head on over to my website, Kent
Coach, and start aconversation with me there. Or check
(47:35):
out my promotion playbook atKent Coach Playbook. Before you go
on with your day, I ask thatyou please take a moment to leave
a rating and a review whereveryou listen to podcasts. Five stars.
That helps put this podcast infront of more eyes and ears. Until
next time, take it easy.
Take a moment to reallycollect yourself and feel what you're
feeling. Then you can start tolay that foundation of some of that
inner work and start to dreamabout, what would I like to have
happen? What's possible? Whatdo I like to do best? I would just
also say I think people startto feel that panicky feeling of I
just need to land. I just needto get a job. And by slowing it down
(00:27):
a little bit, you're probablygoing to land in a better place.
You're going to show up inthose meetings in a better place.
You're going to be moreprepared, you're going to have more
thoughtful questions, you'regoing to have a more thoughtful story
to tell. And so it's thatcounterintuitive of go slow to go
fast.
Hi there and welcome to theStep up expert Voices for Leadership
(00:49):
Growth. I'm your host, KentKnievel. Every week I talk to experts
who focus on helping leadersstep up their leadership game. If
you're new to the show, thenon whatever platform you're using,
I encourage you to subscribeso you never miss an episode. One
last thing. As a leadershipdevelopment consultant and executive
coach, I have a particularinterest in supporting recent internally
promoted leaders. If that'syou, or if you support a leader who
(01:12):
has been recently promoted, Iencourage you to visit my website
at Kent Coach Playbook anddownload a free copy of my 90 day
blueprint filled withpractical advice for you or the leader
you support in hitting theground running and truly stepping
up to their new leadershiplevel. Without further ado, on with
the show. Welcome, everybody.Today we're going to do a little
(01:33):
bit of a departure from ourusual, you know, focus on leadership
and we're going to talk alittle bit about being in career
transition. You know, we'lltalk a little bit more about this,
but there's been a lot of newsas of late today that we're recording.
It is November 3rd. Last week,Target Corporation. In my own backyard,
I'm in Molly's backyard, whoI'm going to introduce here in just
a second. You laid off aboutabout a thousand people plus 800
(01:57):
unfilled roles are going tocontinue to go unfilled. Same week,
Amazon announced somewherearound the potential of 30,000 layoffs.
Sounds like they executedabout 14,000 last week. And I think
this has been on my mind. AndMolly and I were set to record today.
Again, I'm going to introduceMolly in just a second and she sent
me an email and she's like,hey, do you want to talk about career
(02:19):
transitions. That's actually abig, you know, part of what I do.
And I said, well, this is aleadership podcast. But then I'm
reminded of a saying that mywife and I have from time to time
when we feel a little rulebound on things where it's like,
wait a second, I'm the adult.I get to make the rule.
Right?
And so I sort of said to Mollyover email, I said, well, this is
(02:43):
what my podcast is usuallyabout, but I guess I created that
rule, and I can break thatrule anytime I want. So today we're
going to be talking aboutcareer transitions. And with me for
this conversation today isMolly Conlon Peterson. She's an executive
and career coach and founderof the Daring Venture. Thrilled to
have you on, and thank you forprompting this conversation today.
(03:04):
Thank you. Thank you, Kent.It's lovely to be here, and I really
appreciate the invite. I thinkthis topic is really relevant given
what's going on right now. Andso I'm excited to be here. And also,
yeah, just to share somesupport for people, because I think
a lot of people are out therefeeling pretty unsettled. And.
(03:25):
Yeah, and I would add to that,too, you know, feeling unsettled
if you've gotten theannouncement or the, you know, that
your job is ended or coming toan end, or even the looming, maybe
your job could come to an endat any moment kind of feeling, or
even those of us out here whoare like, what can I do? I. I don't
(03:45):
have a job. I can't give you ajob, but I want to help in some way.
So I have a feeling ourconversation will cover the gamut
here. But before we get intothat, Molly, I want to hear a little
bit about your journey, careerarc, you know, and sort of what land,
you know, bring us. Bring usup to date with and what you're doing.
Yeah. Thank you for asking. SoI have been doing career coaching
(04:07):
and transition work for thepast 28 years. I'm founder of an
organization called the DaringVenture. And I'll. I'll just share
with you a little bit abouthow I got started. So I spent the
first 10 years of my career inselling advertising for arts publications,
for newspapers, magazines, andthen arts publications. And I was
(04:30):
doing this work.
I can see the naturaltransition already.
How does she get here? Howdoes that work? And so, you know,
I. I want to say this becauseI think a lot of times people are
in a role where it looksreally good on the outside. Like,
I was working on streetcommission. I was Making great money.
I had a downtown, like,there's all these outer things that
(04:51):
looked really cool and fun andinside, quietly, I just felt such
a discontent. And so I startedkind of looking around, trying to
figure out, do I want to be acounselor? Do I want to be. I really
was into, you know, kind offigure out meaning and purpose for
people. And then this thinghappened. A friend of mine, a very.
(05:11):
One of my very best friends,got laid off and she got matched
up with a career coach at anorganization, a nonprofit organization
that's still in existencetoday. It's called Women Venture.
And so she, she came home fromher first meeting. We were roommates
at the time. And she said,this woman has your job, you need
to go meet with her. And so Idid. I called her up, I went and
(05:37):
met with her and she said, youknow, we have volunteer opportunities.
And it was one of those thingswhere, you know, it doesn't happen
very often, but you, when youmeet somebody and you talk to them
and you're like, this is whatI want to do. This is exactly. I
had that feeling. And so Istarted volunteering there because
I had a lot of like, freedomin my schedule. I started volunteering
(05:58):
there. I was doing coaching,then I was teaching classes, and
then I started teachinganother class. So I, and I say this
out loud because I thinksometimes when people are making
transitions, it's like, well,how do I get experience and, and
go and try some things out andvolunteer and put your skills to
use and test drive it? And bydoing that, I got confirmation. And
(06:24):
then I ended up changing my. Iwas in math, getting a graduate degree
at the time, and I changed mypath. And lo and behold, a job opened
up there and I was clearly notthe most qualified person. And I
got it because I was basicallydoing the role. And, and it was another.
(06:48):
There is another piece tothis. And I, I just want to say this
out loud because I think thisis what scares a lot of people from
making changes too, is it wasa pretty significant pay cut. And
I was like, okay, I am goingto bite the bullet. I'm going to
figure this out. And. And Idid. So I did this for about five
years and it's kind of where Icut my teeth and learned some skills.
(07:10):
I finished my master's degree,got my coaching certification. And
then what happened is thatthere was a series of layoffs in,
in our organization and my gymwas part time. It was after 9 11.
And I decided I had had thisdream of starting my own practice.
So. So I Decided to take theleap of faith, but I wanted to do
(07:34):
it wisely. So I ended up.Placement was really hot at the time.
A lot of people were gettinglaid off. Not dissimilar to what's
happening now. So I ended upnegotiating this role with an L placement
organization where I wouldwork for them part time and then
I would see my own clientspart time. And we came to an agreement
(07:55):
and it worked beautifully forabout 10 years. So that is kind of
how I got going on doingcareer transition work. And I just.
There was a couple highlightsthat I want to just point out because
I think they're kind of cool.I think, you know, one of the things
that, that was fun to work on.There was a. Because a lot of people
(08:17):
at Midlife are trying tofigure out. I think a lot of people
like at Target right now werethere's higher level executives.
They're like, okay, I'm notquite to the retirement age, but
I need to find somethingthat's meaningful and purposeful
and practical, probably makesome money or maybe I can partly
retire. So figuring out likethat next chapter of what that's
(08:40):
going to look like, it's thatencore career planning. I was involved
pretty heavily with the guywho invented gps, started this Empowered
Careers in California and itwas a partnership with UCLA and we
developed a program formidlife career changers. And we're
coaching those, those changersand then kind of figuring out of
(09:02):
some structures to put inplace for them. So that was, that
was one startup and then theother one that was really kind of
fun was there's anorganization called Social Finance
sofi. They're out ofCalifornia and there's a loan company
and they provide. They startedproviding career transition services
to everyone who was a memberbecause they thought, well, if people
(09:25):
get back to work earlier thenthey're not, not going to have a
problem with loans. And thenif people have a good career TRA
trajectory, they're going tomake probably more money and then
they're going to buy a houseand then they're going to feel loyalty.
So it was really a brilliantidea. So we got, there were a couple
of us that brought it gotbrought in to kind of build that
business up and to really kindof do some cool things about how
(09:48):
do you find meaningful work,how do you ask for a raise, how do
you, you know, make thosetransitions that are going to really
take you to the next level interms of, of your work? So yeah,
so that's a little bit aboutmy, my journey. I, I've had my own
business now since, oh gosh,since 2002.
(10:09):
Oh wow.
Yep. And then the, the otherpiece that I guess I want to bring
in today that's, that's prettymeaningful is about 12 years ago
I took a little bit of a turnand started. There's a woman by the
name of Dr. Brene Brown who'spretty well known, she's written
a bunch of books. I went andwas a huge fan of hers and went and
(10:32):
got certified in her work andstarted a second business called
the Daring Venture which isnow kind of where I've rolled everything
into. It's a partner. And westarted bringing that work to leaders
and teams. It was a programcalled Dare to Lead and it was really
transformational work, couragebuilding skills. And one of the kind
(10:54):
of the primary premises ofBernays, you know, work in that is,
is, you know, when you thinkabout being courageous and doing
something that feels out ofyour comfort zone, it's vulnerability,
right? Risk, emotionalexposure with no guarantee really
(11:14):
what job search is all about.And it's when you're about to do
those things, it's not fearthat holds you back. It's those moments
of how do you self protectthose pattern ways that we self protect
when we feel vulnerable andhow do you then build those skills,
those small moments of courageso that you can do the thing you
(11:38):
really want to do and get pastthose feelings of okay, this is my
pattern, this is what I do.This is how I show up in these situations
and start to, you know, dothose small things that actually
move forward. And that's truein leadership, that's true in life,
that's true in career change.And I really think that's the piece
(12:00):
that for a lot of people, youknow, we can do a roadmap of how
do you do a career change. Butman, career, career, I mean this
is hard work. This is scarywork. It's scary for people to be
in transition. There's a lotof feelings and emotions. You're
(12:20):
putting yourself out there inways that require resilience and
it's, it's, it's courage.Right. And so this, this work, I
feel like this, this is aculmination, right, of career transition
stuff. And then the courageand those get combined to be a really
kind of way that we can helppeople transform.
(12:43):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Ithink and, and I'd be shocked if
anyone listening doesn't knowwho Brene Brown is. Given, given
the audience and having beenon the job market myself a number
of times in my career. I 100agree with what you're saying here
in terms of just the, there'sthis element of courage, the, you
(13:06):
know, this, the need to, Ithink there's even a book titled
this and I'm not necessarilytrying to quote that, but the, the
ability to feel the fear anddo it anyway right around certain
things. Like, like networking,for example. I think a lot of people,
I think, have a bad impressionof what good networking actually
is. And even if you have asense of what good networking is
(13:31):
and could look like, it'sstill a, it's a, you still have to,
I don't know, for lack of abetter way to put it, like, you still
have to swallow some level ofpride in order to put yourself out
there. Right. So let me,let's, let's get into this because,
you know, let me add a littleextra context too because I, I was
just looking at this last weekand I don't, I'm not going to pull
(13:52):
it all up so I'm not going tobe able to quote it all correctly.
But you know, you've got,while in the Twin Cities, where I
believe you're located heretoo, right? Yeah. So while in the
Twin Cities, the announcementabout Target last week was pretty
big. It is actually somewherein the middle of the pack, if not
lower third of the pack interms of layoffs this year. Right.
(14:13):
And I think just since Junewith companies that are large enough
to be remarkable ornewsworthy, you know, we are approaching,
you know, I think it's likeover 170,000 layoffs. Right. So if
you, if you think about thatfor a minute and think about like
(14:34):
the amount of small to midsized companies that maybe are not
big enough or don't have bigenough names behind them to be remarkable
or newsworthy, my guess is thenumber of layoffs just since June
is probably well over 200,000.Right. And you know, that, that number
hit me really hard last week.You know, I'm trying to think about,
(14:55):
you know, what can I do? I'mnot a career coach. I learned a lot
of valuable lessons aboutnetworking way back when. I, you
know, more than like, youknow, probably 12 years ago or more
when I was really first tryingto leave consulting and get into
HR and interestingly going,you know, from HR to now being, you
know, solo consultant,entrepreneur, however you want to
(15:17):
word that interesting in someregards how networking and sales
are very much veryinterrelated, if not identical. You
know, like, that's one thingI'm thinking about is like how you
know, how can I help peoplelearn how to network better or things
like that? But I don't want tobarrel down that topic yet necessarily.
But, you know, I think it waswhen, when you reached out on Friday
(15:39):
before we were recording andyou were like, hey, you know, I think
you must have seen somethingthat I posted about it. And you're
like, hey, you want to havethat conversation instead? And I
was like, I think just feltcompelled to say, yeah, so where
do you want to start theconversation about, you know, maybe
we start with that oh, shitmoment of I got the 15 minute meeting
(16:01):
on my calendar. You know,maybe we take it from there.
And I just want to say, like,like my heart goes out to so many
people that are in this, inthis boat. And I think one of the
things when you are in thisboat, there's shock, there's, you
know, anger, disbelief. All ofthose feelings are here, especially,
(16:23):
you know, what's going onbecause so many people are getting
laid off on one hand. Itnormalizes it. And so there's like
this feeling of like, hey, I'mnot alone. Every, this is happening
to everyone because I thinkthere's this piece of, am I not good
enough? Why did they pick me?And then, then there's also this
like, fear of like, oh mygosh, everybody's flooding the job
(16:43):
market right now. So I think Ijust, I just want to say that out
lo. So give yourself a beat tofeel what you're feeling. Get some
support, give yourself somegrace, you know, I think, you know,
so many people say, well, yougot to get out there right away and
get networking. And I wouldsay just take a moment, you know,
to really collect yourselfand, and, and feel what you're feeling.
(17:06):
And then, then you can startto lay that foundation of some of
that inner work and start todream about, you know, okay, what,
what, what would I like tohave happen, you know, what, what's
possible? What do I like to dobest? And I think I, I would just
also say, I think peoplestart, start to feel that panicky
feeling of I just need toland, I just need to get a job. And,
(17:29):
and by slowing it down alittle bit, you're probably going
to land in a better place.You're going to show up in those
meetings in a better place.You're going to be more prepared,
you're going to have morethoughtful questions, you're going
to have a more thoughtfulstory to tell. And so it's that counterintuitive
of go slow, to go fast andstart think about those, those do
(17:51):
that. Like I have a best selfprofile. You know, it's skills, values,
strengths, personality,imaginary lives. That's a really
fun one. Purpose, you know,what are the practical needs and
to kind of just go throughthose things, to just refresh because
it might be different todaythan it was, you know, five years
ago or what you last lookedfor a job.
(18:14):
Right, right. Yeah. Well, letme, you know, my number one recommendation
for people is if you wereoffered outplacement service, transition
service, take it. Like, don't,don't sit on that. And I'm going
to give like my mischievousreason first and foremost is more
(18:34):
often than not, if you do notlike. So I, I both used and I worked
for Lee Hecheck Terracin for avery short amount of time as a transition
coach. So I do have someexperience as a transition coach,
even though it's notnecessarily what I do. Although I
would say I always have likeone person that I'm coaching in transition
more as like out of care thanwhat it is that I'm doing. But in
(18:56):
some cases, the way thesecontracts work with these outplacement
firms are the company doesn'tpay if you don't actually call and
initiate and, and act activatethat service. So there's a, there's
a mischievous part of me thatalways says, like, hey, go find out
what the minimum is that youneed to do to make sure your former
(19:16):
employer pays for this. Right.But that's just me being kind of
snarky. But at the very least,most of these, at the very least
give a resume review, if not aresume rewrite. And, and that in
and of itself, if you. BecauseI think one of the things that I
keep seeing in these, for me,gut wrenching LinkedIn posts that
(19:39):
I see from folks is peoplewith 15 to 25 years. I mean there's
plenty of people with lessthan 15 who are being laid off four
years, five years or less.Yes. But you know, I'm thinking about
these folks who are in that 15to 25 year mark who may have not
put a resume together in 20years, who haven't interviewed with
(20:00):
somebody they don't knowalready in 20 years. Right. And so
even just this, I, I alwayssay the resume reviewer rewrite is
probably in the ballpark ofthree to five hundred dollars in
value that your outgoingemployer is essentially paying for.
Right. So I always say firstand foremost, if you're being offered
(20:20):
transition services, take it.Right? Do it. If, if, if it's with,
you know, sometimes there's nochoice. It's. Here's who we use.
That's the package. And I, Iwager in some. There's probably some
cases where there's someflexibility of we will pay for a
transition service, and youmight need to do some legwork to
(20:40):
find someone. But I think thatwould probably be more the exception
than the rule, I think morecompanies. Here's who we work with,
and here's your. You have thismany days to activate it.
That's exactly.
Well, how would you. Yeah, howdo you want to.
I. I agree with you. I mean,that's a service. You're getting
support, and you should. Ifyou have a service that's already
(21:01):
in place, you shouldabsolutely take advantage of that
because they're going tosupport you in lots of different
ways. And, you know, if. Ifyou have an amount of money, I mean,
I've had clients come to methat say, hey, I got assigned to
this person, but I'd ratherwork with you. And I negotiated that
with my employer. And so youcan do exactly what you just said
(21:26):
if you're so inclined, but ifyou have free career transition services,
100%, because that's a supportsystem and that structure, and that's
kind of what you need rightnow, is somebody to kind of guide
you through this process andhelp you be a thought partner and
help you brainstorm and thinkthings through and. And just revisit
all those elements of. Of.Because you're. You're in it, and
(21:50):
it's hard to be outside ofyourself, to have somebody that can
kind of take you through it.
Yeah. So let me, Let me shoveus forward a little bit, because
I, I think this is a. A uniqueconversation for. For my podcast,
at least. All right, so you'rea part of someone. You know, you're
part of a group who may havegotten laid off last month. Right.
(22:13):
So it's. You're maybe about aweek in to. Either your job has already
ended or you have an end datelisted. Maybe you're still technically
transitioning out. What shouldpeople be doing?
Yeah, well, to your point,take a beat. I like that, for sure.
Get a journal, start to writedown things because, you know, capture,
(22:36):
you know, what do I love to dothe most? You know, what do I want
to do next? What's possible,what's most important. You know,
either talk that through withsomebody or, you know, write it down
for yourself and then keep alist of ideas and options that you
think you might want to checkout. I also highly recommend just
(22:57):
revisiting some of Thoseassessments. The Myers Briggs is
awesome because it actuallyhas lists of careers that you may
not have even thought aboutthat can open up possibilities or
confirm like, oh yeah, thatdoes make sense based on my Myers
Briggs or the strengthsfinder. Because what you really want
to do is leave with your, Beable to tell your story and be able
(23:20):
to say, here's what I've done,here's what I do really well. So
list out some of thoseaccomplishments that you're most
proud of. That can also bereally helpful. And then here's kind
of what I want to do next andstart to just kind of put that framework
together and start to makelists of people. But you don't have
(23:40):
to, like, at this point,you're doing that inner work of you
want to get yourself online.Figure it out first so that those
conversations, you know, like70% of jobs are found through networking.
I think that number has goneup now because of all the easy, Easy
app, you know.
Yep.
And.
And just how many people areon the market too. Right. And you
(24:03):
probably see a bit more ofthis given, you know, what's in your
algorithm compared to mine.But I know there's a lot of talk
about how AI has, is beingused for helping people tweak their
resume, you know, to, to beat.Beat the applicant tracking system.
Right. Which interestingly, wesay AI about everything. It's. It's
(24:27):
large language models, it'smachine learning. Right. Which applicant
tracking systems have beenusing for years. Right. Scanning
resumes for keywords. Right.And that can be really tricky. And
not that I want to dive intothis yet, but that can be really
tricky because what the wordsyour company uses for something might
be very different from, youknow, the words another company uses
(24:50):
for something. Right. And so,and it can be a lot, you know, if,
if people are applying to. SoI'm not really talking about the
people who were laid off lastweek at this moment, but people who
I. I've seen this throughoutthis, through 2025 is, you know,
I've applied to tens tohundreds of, you know, jobs. Right.
(25:11):
And that to be expected tocustomize your resume to 100 applications.
Right. Is a lot. Right. So onthe one hand, and I didn't want to
get into this, but here I amgetting into it because there was
something else I wanted totalk about, but I would, I would
say you should be using, Imean, that makes light work. Right.
(25:31):
If you're using AI. Right. Asa thought partner, being able to
say, here's this job posting,here's my Resume, don't have it do
the work for you, actually askit to make recommendations to you
for you to do. That way youknow what's being tweaked and what's
not. But saying like, what doyou recommend I update specifically
(25:52):
in my resume, you know, tohelp match the language of the company
or whatever.
I, I think you're bringing upa great. I mean, AI is a tool. It,
it, it can be incredibly. Iwas just at a career conference and
we were talking about, youknow, how do you prompt it for all
these different things, likeprepping for interviews, you know,
this exactly what you justsaid. Take the job description, take
(26:14):
your resume prompted into AI.And then, you know, that's a jumping
off point. So AI can beincredibly helpful. And the flip
side of that is that noweverybody, it's so easy to apply
for all of these jobs becauseyou can just take these two things
and then a lot of the jobresumes look alike for recruiters.
(26:39):
Yeah. And this is where Ithink you had said something, and
here's. Let me go back to itnow. You had said something about
the percentage of jobs thatare found through your network versus
applying and the quote,unquote, hidden job market.
Right.
And I honestly thought thatwas a bit of hui until I became a
career coach. And out of the,you know, I probably had 100 or some
(27:01):
odd people that I wascoaching. And, you know, sure enough,
I mean, I don't have thenumbers in my head, but a number
of them got a job throughtheir network. Right. And if not,
kind of going back to thispoint about everyone, you know, if
everyone's using chat GPT totweak their resume, everybody's resumes
are looking the same. Havingsomeone walk your resume to the hiring
(27:24):
manager, if not the recruiter,is one way to at least, you know,
it can at least fast track aphone call. But I would say that
that's the, you know, kind ofgetting back to the, you know, importance
of networking, which I want tomake sure we dive into. Let me back
up one more step and say, butfirst, you said first, take a beat.
There's some work, there'ssome inner work you can do to kind
(27:47):
of think about who you want tobe, what you want, what really fires
you up. I also think what'sinteresting in this day and age is
like, do I make a LinkedInannouncement or not? Right. And my
personal opinion on that iswhen you're a part of an unremarkable
layoff, meaning it's notnewsworthy, I always Encourage people
(28:09):
to wait a little bit, youknow, before they were to make an
announcement, just startnetworking. But when with these mass
layoffs, I have a completely180 opinion on that is it is newsworthy.
People know, it tends to bepretty common knowledge that these
are deep cuts that have littleto do with performance. And so in
(28:29):
these cases I say put, put thegreen banner up on LinkedIn. Make,
you know, make some kind ofannouncement in this case because
people do want to help. Right.And if they don't know, they might
not know to help. Right. ButI'd love to get you, what are your
thoughts on do you make.
I think that your, your pointis a good one. Like there's these
(28:49):
mass layoffs. People want tohelp. People are, I mean I think
all of our hearts are goingout to people who are laid off right
now. We want, everybody wantsto help. And so it, it's, it's as
the person that got laid upgetting really clear about how can
people help. You tell peoplehow they can help, like being really
specific about, like if I'mmeeting with this person, what would
(29:10):
be how could they specificallyhelp me? And getting that clear in
your mind before you do thereach out before you, you know, and,
and you might be exploringfive or six different things. But
then, and I suggest getting itlike a spreadsheet together because
then you can get clearer onwho am I.
Reaching out to for thelisteners I am vigorously, what is
(29:33):
my ask from.
Them, what's my goal with thisconversation? And then who do they
refer me to? Because, youknow, usually it's like, hey, here's
my situation, here's what Ilove to do, here's what I'm looking
to do next. And here's, youknow, here's kind of who I want to
talk to or get introduced toor explore more in it. And then making
sure that those people getfollowed back up with.
(29:59):
Yeah, let me, let me, let meadd to that because I'm going to
ask you some targetedquestions because I think we're on
the networking, which I wantedto make sure we got on the networking.
And I want to ask you sometargeted questions here, which is,
but I want to add to thetracking thing. Best advice I ever
got was to start tracking. AndI, I would add yes, and to everything
you said here. But also Iwould add when did.
I talk to this person?
(30:19):
Like write that date down andwas there any kind of follow up discussed
in the call? Like did theysay, hey, you know, reach back out
to me in a month, right Thenadd a column, you know, put this
in Excel, add a column forthat and say, you know, I'm going
to reach back out to thisperson. This is the date, you know,
we agreed upon. Put that datein there and kind of use this as
(30:40):
like essentially for thosesalespeople on the call, we're kind
of talking about a personalCRM, essentially. Right. Is who did
I talk to? All right, butlet's, let's break down networking
for a minute because I thinkthis is really, it's really hard
for people both getting thecourage up to reach out and ask someone
for their time, but alsofiguring out what not to do and what
(31:03):
to do in a networking call. Solet me, let me start with. Because
I think people have, I, I haverun into more people who have a bad
impression of networking thana good. Right. And so let's start
with what not to do. You knowwhat, what's your advice on? Don't
do this in a networking call.Then we'll get into the. Then, you
know, get right into the. Butwhat should they do?
(31:26):
Well, I mean, I think that thefirst thing is, is if you are just
laid up, people will say,well, just reach out to your network.
And it's a big, I got laidoff. I need a job. Well, that's not
helpful. Right? Nobody's justsitting around thinking, oh, I've
got a job for this person.Right. And, and so it's being really
specific with each individualabout what can they do to help and
(31:49):
then making sure you followup. If they've given you a referral,
there's nothing worse thansomebody helping you. And then they're
giving, they're giving you areferral and you never, they never
hear from you again. So makingsure you. Hey, I met with Joe Jones
today. He was fantastic. Thankyou so much for, for advocating for
me. Here's my next step. Takethem. Don't, don't just let them
(32:12):
hang. Make sure you're takingthem on the journey with you and
that they can feel a part ofhelping you. If that's then. And
then what can you do for them?Like, because I feel like, you know,
sometimes it's, I thinknetworking gets a bad rap because
it's all about me, what do Ineed? And, and sometimes you might
(32:32):
have connections or ideas oreven it might be something personal
of making it a two way streetso it doesn't feel transactional.
Yeah. Okay. I want to dissectsome of these elements because I
want to add one to the don'tlist, which I Think is okay.
I went through to the do's,didn't I?
You did. It's okay. I like itthough. You're a coach. You are forward
(32:55):
focused. You are not in thepast, but I think it's implied in
what you said, which is we'renot going to ask for a job. Right.
When we reach out to someone,we are not asking them for a job.
Right.
No, we are reconnecting.Right. We are, you know, perhaps
telling our story of what,what happened to me, which I'd love
(33:16):
to get your thoughts on thatbecause I, I, I always struggle with
helping people with that. But,and I have some ideas on. Especially
if you're interested in jobsat that person's company. I certainly
have ideas on like, well, whatare some of the questions you should
ask? But I think one of thebest parts that, and this is like
always do this that I alwayssay, which is I always say you should
(33:39):
ask for at least twoconnections right towards, towards
the end of the call. Is thereany, you know, it could be, you know,
is there one or two people youthink I should get to know at your
company or. And the morespecific you can make it. Right.
Better. Right. I always sayeveryone's ask is no one's asked.
Such a broad ask doesn't help.You're putting the labor like, is
(33:59):
there anyone you think Ishould get to know? Well, the world
becomes the possibility thereversus saying, let's say I'm in marketing.
Right. Be more specific. Isthere anyone in marketing that you
think I should get to know? Isthere anyone in. And now it's not.
I'll have to go to my, Let mego to HR because that's my real background
to say, like, is there anyonein. Instead of hr, let's keep getting
(34:23):
narrow. Is there anyone inlearning and development that you
think I should get to know?
Right.
And then, and I love yoursuggestion here of also. But follow
up, let them know, hey, I didtalk to so and so that you connected
with me with. Thank you somuch. Here's where I'm at, you know,
bringing, bringing peoplealong because you never know.
Yes.
Just like we're seeing rightnow too. You never know when, you
(34:44):
never know when people aregoing to get laid off. You never
know when openings are goingto come around. Sometimes people
you're talking to don't knowand suddenly three weeks down the
road, four weeks down theroad, something opened up and you've
been in contact and you mightpop, you know, you might be, might
come to mind for that person.So they can feed back how. What,
(35:05):
what kind of advice do yougive people on when it comes to networking?
I'm gonna stick with this fora minute here of like, what should
they be saying and asking.Right. Other than four connections,
you know, and oh, I also lovehow you said offer something.
Right.
And that can be hard.
Yeah.
What do you have to offer?Well, it can simply just be, let
me know if there's anything Ican do for you. I've even gone to,
(35:30):
if I'm talking to someone intalent management, I might say, hey,
I've been at, you know, I'vebeen at the big firm, you know, I've
been at Korn Ferry. I've seentalent reviews implemented across
three different companies inthree completely different ways.
If you ever want to pick mybrain, you know, about what I've
seen, just let me know. Right?So you. It is not a problem to say,
if there's anything I can do,let me know. Similar, similar to
(35:54):
asking for connections. If youcan make it more specific in any
way, that's always great. ButI think people, I've always found,
even if all you can say is, isthere anything I can do for you?
People appreciate that.
They do, they do. And it makesit a two way street. And you can
even pick up on somethinglike, hey, they, they're, you know,
(36:14):
in this role, there's anarticle I could send them or there's
a, you know, a podcast I couldsend them. It doesn't have to be
something that costs money,but it's just a thoughtfulness piece.
Your point is a great one. Imean, you have to be specific and
you have to be clear. And thenI would just maybe add on, is it,
is this a networking meetingor is this an informational interview?
(36:37):
And those are different thingsand they're both valuable. And I
think just set it up up front,Front. Like, what am I, Is this a,
is a networking, am I, youknow, kind of brainstorming and getting
information and maybepotential contacts, or am I informational
interviewing you to find outwhat does the day to day of this
role look like? And they'reboth, both valuable for different
(36:59):
reasons.
So when would you want to doone versus the other?
Well, I mean, I think thatyour point, like, if you're, I, I
just had a client that was inlike a brand manager in a beauty
industry and she wanted totransition to healthcare. So she's
like, how are my skills gonnatrans translate? And so before she
(37:20):
even started that networkingpiece, she's like, I need to do some
informational interviews tosee what the lay of the land is,
how does this work? How willthis transfer? What things do I need
to be talking about? Thelanguage. And I think it can also
be helpful if you see an openrole and you're like, I need to know
about the culture of thiscompany. So if there's some unanswered
(37:41):
questions, it can be a reallygreat way to get to know the people
that are actually probablygoing to maybe potentially open doors
for you in the future.
Right. Well, and I even say topeople like, pretend you still have
a job in your head for aminute and that it would take a lot
to pull you, to recruit youaway. What are the questions? If
(38:01):
that were the scenario thatyou would want to know about that
company, that culture, thatdepartment or division or what have
you, you know, and ask thosequestions, right? Like, how is that
entire division organized? Youknow, where do decision rights land?
How are the stakeholderrelationships in that company? But
(38:23):
ask the questions from a sortof mentality of, I am employed, and
these questions would need tobe answered to my, like, satisfaction
for me to want to leave.
Yes. I love that framework.You know that because you're, you're
just curious. It's a curiosityabout the business and about how
they run the business andabout what, like your. To your point,
(38:45):
how is, how is thisstrategically set up? What are their
goals for the future? What'sthe culture like? You know, all of
those kinds of things can be.And then it can be building on, you
know, a business conversation.So it's not about. I'm just, you
know, here to get it. It'slike we can be thought partnering
(39:05):
on things or sharing ideas,and that can be a really rich conversation,
too, that actually helpspeople see who you are.
Yeah. What. What else is topof mind for you with kind of this
news coming out and wherepeople might be?
Well, I think your point is agood one. Just like, how do we support
people that are in this spotand then the people that are in the
(39:28):
spot. So I guess there's acouple categories, right? There's
people that are in the spotthat need help and being able to
have some courage to take abeat, really clarify your message,
get clear on who you want totalk to, but just also think about
being in this. Like, this is.This is hard work and it may take
(39:50):
some time. And so how do youbuild some support structure around
you? How do you, you know,have, you know, people in your life
that can cheer you on when youknow it doesn't work out? And Kind
of guide you through aprocess. So if you have outplacement,
that's wonderful. I, I dooutplacement with companies too.
But, but finding your peoplethat can support you. And, and the
(40:12):
thing is a lot of people thatare laid off together can do that,
a lot of that for each otheras well.
Yeah.
You've got a group of friendsthat are all at Target. You guys
can, you know, be that, besupporting each other. And in the
process.
I want to add on, there's onething you said which was. But it
made me think of at a certainpoint there will be a lot of diminishing
(40:36):
returns in terms of how manyhours you sit in front of your computer
trying to manifest a jobopening to.
Right.
Like yes. So I would say it's,it's like, sure, dive in and spend
a huge chunk of time in yourfirst couple of weeks because there's
a lot. If you haven't been onthe job market, there's a lot to
absorb. There's a lot of, Alot of jobs that have been sitting
out there and hanging outthere. Whether or not they're actually
(40:56):
still available, who knows.But you know, but after, I would
say in my, my opinion aftertwo or three weeks and even that's
probably too long to behonest, but you know, there's sort
of a lot of diminishingreturns of sitting in front of your
computer computer for eighthours every day and, and probably
not the healthiest, you know,thing to do right. After a certain
(41:21):
point.
100 agree. And, and this iswhy I like start. Maybe this is.
There's is was like a littlebit of a freedom in that right. Of
saying okay, I know in my headI think sitting in front of my computer
is productive because that'swhat I've been doing all day. But
it's not. And so getting outthere, like maybe take a while. I've
(41:42):
had one of the things I alwayssay to clients is volunteer even
like five hours a week. Get infront of some new people, start to
build your networks, get intoball nets and professional associations
or you know, network. Findsome ways to get involved in your
community or, or volunteer.You have space now in your, your
day. So find some ways toconnect, to give back, to test drive
(42:06):
some ideas. You know, ifyou're meeting with someone, say
hey you know what, I have sometime available. I would love to,
you know, is there a smallproject I could just take on? Yeah.
So finding small ways to getin to organizations and to be, you
know, there's that Wholeconcept of the luck surface. Right.
And it's like the more you putyourself out there, the more that
(42:28):
you have conversations withpeople, the more that you are in
person with people, probablyyour chances are going to go up.
Yeah, Yeah. I would sayprepare yourself for weekends being
kind of hard. Right. Without intention.
Right.
Because you, you feel some,some semblance of control some Monday
(42:52):
through Friday while, youknow, companies are operating and
recruiters might be looking atyour applications and you message
people and maybe they'rereplying from a networking or informational
interviewing perspective. ButI, I, I would, in my own experience.
Right. This is probably one ofthe more critical times to be thoughtful
and intentional about whatyour Saturday and Sunday consist
(43:15):
of. Like, make some plans, dosome stuff like get together with
friends, schedule play datesfor your kids, you know, get out
of your house. Because thatwas always the heart. Like, weekends
were always really hard for mewhen I was between jobs. It was just
like, like there's, like, itfelt like everything was coming to
a screeching halt for twodays. Like, everything, everything
(43:37):
that I was focused on, whichwas, you know, next.
Right. No, I think this issuch good advice, Kent. You know,
get out of your house, beconnecting with people. Because it
is, it doesn't necessarilyhave to be a professional connection,
either of. And it just, it's,it's. I think your biggest job is
how do I want to show up?Because if you're in that spot of,
(43:58):
oh, my gosh, I feel stuck, Ifeel I'm in despair, and you're just
staying in your house in frontof your computer, that's really tough.
It's really tough to find ajob that way. And so it's giving
yourself permission to be out,to be connecting with people, to
be having some structure,maybe a walk every day at a certain
time, you meet friends, youknow, for coffee once a week, or
(44:22):
working outside of the house,you know, having some practices and
structure to your day, becauseI think that's a big one for people.
You know, what are you goingto do every day in the morning? So
that's figured out. I'm goingto, you know, take the dog for a
walk. I'm going to write downeverything I'm grateful for. I am
going to be in meditation orprayer or whatever, but, you know,
(44:46):
spending some time that youcan ground yourself with some structure
and some rituals in your dayand in your week.
Okay, here's, here's what I'mgonna do because we have a little
more time to keep talking.
Yeah.
I feel. And yet I'm watchingthe timer for my usual episode length
and I'm like, okay, what do wedo here? Here's what we're gonna
(45:07):
do. We're gonna do this isgonna become a two episode recording,
my first ever. So. But here's,but let's, let's wrap up episode
number one with. Because Ithink right now we've talked about,
you've been laid off. Takesome time. Talked a little bit about
resumes, we've talked a littlebit about networking and kind of
taking care of yourself. Ithink there's a bit more for us to
(45:27):
probably talk a little bitabout. But when it comes to this
kind of, I would say thisfirst half, so to speak, of what
we're talking about. What's.And we'll try to keep it really tight.
What's one piece of advice youhave for job seekers and what's one
piece of advice you have forpeople who are wondering how I can
help?
(45:48):
Yeah, well, so I would say forjob seekers, don't let this scare
you because don't let theexternal circumstances get in the
way of your meaning, yourpurpose, what you're here to do,
and trust the process. Becauseeven in times where there's a lot
(46:08):
of people laid off, and I'vebeen doing this a really long time,
I know that people usually endup in a better place than, than.
And it can be scary and it isgoing to require you stepping out
of your comfort zone. But youjust, just trust that if you're listening
and you're doing that innerwork and the outer work, that you
will land in a good spot, thatit is going to happen. So I think
(46:32):
that's a big piece because itfeels scary. And so just trust the
process and trust that youwill. And I think for people that
are in jobs, you know, I thinkthat this is scary for them too because
they're absorbing the factthat a lot of people have left the
organization. The culture ischanging. And so there's, I think
(46:52):
it just collectively right nowfor all of us, we need to be in a
place of compassion andempathy. And how can I help my neighbor
and how can I support anyone?Because we're all kind of in it,
you know, whether you're intransition or you've been left behind,
because that's a wholedifferent thing too. That's scary
too. And waiting maybe for theother shoe to drop.
(47:15):
Yeah, let me, let me wrap usthere for, for part one. So thank
you all. And you know what Iwould say is next week, you know,
the week after you'relistening to this, we're gonna drop
part two. That brings us tothe end of our episode. Thanks for
listening. I'd encourage youto head on over to my website, Kent
Coach, and start aconversation with me there. Or check
(47:35):
out my promotion playbook atKent Coach Playbook. Before you go
on with your day, I ask thatyou please take a moment to leave
a rating and a review whereveryou listen to podcasts. Five stars.
That helps put this podcast infront of more eyes and ears. Until
next time, take it easy.
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