Visitors from the Void: Tracing the Transformation of the Alien Image

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What if the eerie feeling you get on a late-night drive past a cemetery isn’t just your imagination? Join Ron, Doug, and Don on Uncannery as we blur the boundaries between reality and the supernatural. From Doug's overwhelming connection with nature at Red Rocks Amphitheater to Ron's ghostly encounter on a deserted road, we share stories that invite you to reflect on your own uncanny experiences. Don opens up about a touching moment of feeling his late father's presence, reminding us how the unexplained can bring comfort and intrigue.

Venture beyond Earth as we tackle the age-old question of extraterrestrial life. Our discussion spins through the mysteries of the Fermi paradox and theories like the "zoo theory," which suggest we might be under alien observation. We uncover the layers of UFO sightings throughout history, tracing narratives from ancient civilizations to modern encounters. These stories, filled with celestial beings like the Anunnaki, highlight humanity's endless fascination with what might lie beyond our planet.

Conspiracy theories take the spotlight as we explore David Icke's reptilian narratives and their underlying societal anxieties. We consider how such theories reflect fears about power dynamics and control, drawing parallels with cultural myths and modern storytelling. As we unravel these narratives, we ponder their broader implications, weaving together past and present beliefs about the unknown. This episode invites you to question and explore the complex tapestry of supernatural and extraterrestrial phenomena with an open mind and a sense of wonder.

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Episode Transcript

Ron (00:25):
Welcome.
Welcome, cartilaginous and bonyorganisms to another episode of
the Uncannery.
I am Ron, your host today, andto my left I am joined by Doug,
and I welcome you, even if youdon't have bones.

Doug (00:42):
I thought that that wasn't the most inclusive.

Ron (00:46):
I included the cartilaginous.
What, what if we're just goo?
Uh, nope, don't want goo.

Doug (00:51):
All right, no goos anybody is a fan of the blob 1954.
I think it might be wrong inthe year.

Ron (00:57):
I apologize if the blob is listening anyway don't need no
blob, and to my right is I'm Don, not a blob, don.
Great, we're going to have somefun today.
Folks, I really need to bringthe mood up.
It's been one of those weeks,doug and Don, and so I really

(01:18):
wanted to start us off bythinking about the incredible
all right, an incredibleexperience.
You ever been somewhere, maybelate at night, maybe in the
early morning?
Maybe a location, a hotel, afarm, far away from your local
bed that you alight upon everynight and through a twilight or

(01:41):
a fogginess of mindset?
Did you have an experience thatcaused you to question your
very own senses In the loaming,if you?

Don (01:47):
were yes, the loaming period.
No.

Ron (01:51):
Oh, okay, doug, save this.
Have a great day.

Doug (01:58):
So in my time being a touring musician, I remember
looking up at Red RocksAmphitheater and if you're not
familiar with this venue, it ison both sides.
You're covered in a like it'sthe side of a mountain that

(02:20):
they've built a venue in, redRock Mountain, and I remember
looking out at the stars andcompletely stopping what I was
doing.
It wasn't necessarily a verysupernatural experience, but
just the awe and moment of thebeauty of the space completely
made me forget what I was doingat the time, to the point that I

(02:42):
kind of like shut down uh, mostfaculties and just like had to
take a moment to to drink it in.
And I know there've beensimilar experiences where people
have kind of talked about thesublimity of nature.
Um, and that was a veryprofound moment for me.
I think about that.
But I know ghosts.

Ron (03:00):
Maybe a ghost hey, maybe I wasn't having you were yeah,
yeah, you got, there's a PatrickSwayze there, yeah is either
aliens from area 51 or yeahhopefully adhd could be yeah
knowing, we'll never knowknowing me

Doug (03:17):
we do know, and it's option two.

Don (03:19):
Yeah it's definitely option two but, really clever names.
There too, Red RockAmphitheater is built into the
Red Rock Mountain.
Let me guess what color therock is.

Doug (03:31):
You'd be shocked, vermilion.

Ron (03:34):
Thank you, yeah, I was going to say burnt orange.

Don (03:36):
Can't call it vermilion Ted .

Ron (03:38):
No one wants to spell that.
I've got one minor kind of.
I've always wanted anexperience right that that I
could like tell people right,like like it's like a fishing
story, right the perfect fishingstory.
Like you, you want somethingkind of impressive, something
you can you know, reel out at aparty, but I think the only one
I really have.
Um was once when, like I waslike a teenager and I had my

(04:00):
driver's license, I used to justlike driving around late at
night, you know, listen to music, whatever and I was driving
around probably around 2 am orso.
It was an empty road and to myleft was a cemetery, and in the
road ahead of me, caught in myheadlights, was a person right
dressed, all in white, and theywere walking from the right-hand

(04:22):
side of the road to theleft-hand side of the road into
the cemetery, crossing the roadand not and not at a crosswalk,
I might say, or a a walkingjuncture, wow, um, but they were
far enough ahead of me that Ididn't really need to like they
weren't like ah, and I crashedinto them or there was no risk
of that, but they were, and Idid kind of a double take, like
what, and my heart started.

Don (04:43):
And then you looked in the rear view mirror and she was in
the backseat.

Doug (04:48):
Was it by any chance October 31st?
It was nowhere.

Ron (04:52):
Actually I couldn't say I have no memory of when this was.

Doug (04:55):
I was very tired on Halloween.

Ron (04:57):
It was probably the summer, I'm assuming that's probably
when you do most of your latenight driving.
You're not driving a lot whenyou have school the next day,
and that's my only real kind oflike ghost story I did have a
similar like.

Don (05:10):
It's not very interesting, I don't think, but it but it's
similar to that, I guess.
But it was after my, it wasn't.
It didn't meet any of therequirements of your story that
you were listing for us.
It wasn't far away from my home.

David Icke (05:30):
It actually was in my home.

Don (05:31):
No, uh, right outside here, after outside my uh my bedroom,
after my uh, my father passedaway and uh, it was like about
two or three weeks worth of likedouble takes and like motions
out of the corner of your eyeand just like the right shape in
the hallway um uh, just kind ofsensing that he was still
hanging around, I guess a littlebit I don't know if that was.
Then you know my brain, like Iwas super excited because like
missed him.

Ron (05:50):
But uh also like oh hey, well quick, what's your password
?

Don (05:58):
Um, but also wondering if it's just my brain manifest.
You know manifesting thatbecause I was missing him right
If it was my own creation, or ifit was actually an encounter
with the supernatural.

Doug (06:09):
Yeah, to be fair, very similar experience.
Grandma passed away, uh, and Iremember having an experience in
a kid where I really thoughtand I guess that's why I didn't
think about it until right nowbut I I don't.
It's hard to say when you're akid, you know, because you're so
in tune with things, but thenyet everything is like so much

(06:30):
more heightened with where yourbrain is developing.
But I remember thinking like,oh, she's in the room and she's
saying goodbye, okay, very much,nothing physical, nothing in
particular, but just like anoverall feeling.

Speaker 6 (06:40):
But then you know the psychologist shows up and says
well, it shows your way of, yourkid has adhd he's never going
to be able to play a concert.
It's keep him away from rocks.
What color were they?

Ron (06:56):
oh yes, he's going to be very, very you actually both
just remind me, I do haveanother one I do also from my
childhood this is not an episode.

Doug (07:03):
This is a trauma dump.

Ron (07:06):
Please help us work through some things that are
reawakening in our minds.
Um, but it was also after thedeath of my grandmother and I
would have been nine or ten orso somewhere around there and I
remember we, uh, we startedgoing to bed.
I shared a room with my brotherand at night I started hearing
this bell, this bell, this ding,and it and it was, and it was.
It was like ding.

Doug (07:27):
Like it was.
You know what a bell soundslike.
It wasn't like a dong.

David Icke (07:32):
And it wasn't like a tink, but it was like a ding,
and.

Ron (07:35):
But what I meant was that it had a tempo, it had a
reliability about it, right Likeit was always at the same time,
and I remember it was grandma'salarm clock.
I was like I remember likegoing to my mom the next morning
, or like this happened overseveral nights.
I was like mom, like you needto come into my room, I think
like grandma's in there she'sringing a bell, because ghosts

(07:56):
love bells or whatever so my momcame in and she did, she like
sat there and she listened andthen and she's like okay, yeah,
yeah, I hear it, I hear it.
It's like cool, I'm not crazy.
And then the next morning she,uh, I think, yeah, I think the
next morning she was like Ithink I know where the, what the
bell is, and it turned out wehad this like night light.

(08:17):
That was a um, it was like abig, tall night light in the
shape of a street light, uh, andit would kind of just flash
different, you know, red, yellow, green, and every time it
changed it dinged dude.

Doug (08:32):
Your grandma turned on the light that's crazy it's an
actual manifestation.

Ron (08:40):
Yeah, yeah, so then, so that was my first also, uh, uh,
sort of skeptical moment, right,or skeptical whiplash, as it
were, right, oh, like the, theworld isn't as magical as, uh,
as my mind construed it perhapsto be.
Yeah, so I don you mentioned,you know, that question of did I
manifest this right, or wasthis a phenomenon of the waking

(09:04):
world?
And that's kind of what I wantto talk about today, and I want
to talk about it, not aboutghosts at all.
Ha ha, fooled you, listener.
I want to talk about aliens,because this is the thing I've
always wanted to see.
Yeah, of course, doug.
I feel like you definitely grewup watching alien stuff, don.

(09:25):
I'm not saying they didn't havealiens when you grew up, but I
feel like, uh, maybe your mediawas less alien oriented remember
aliens don yeah, we had papyrus, that described the aliens back
then remember stone tablets.

Speaker 6 (09:39):
How do you think we built the the?

Ron (09:40):
pyramid yeah, but like was alien media important to you,
right?
Like we had independence dayand uh um I guess, the movie
alien and and like like historychannel was already doling out
like alien stuff, like it wasworld war ii levels of

(10:00):
credibility.
Yeah right, like what was youralien upbringing yeah, no, they
were, they were all over.

Don (10:06):
There's um the last starfighter, but uh that's the
one I'm thinking of what's thealien enemy mind, enemy mind
yeah, that's the one that, uh,that I had, and then on tv we
had v with the rotten milk andum, uh, so yeah, aliens is
absolutely a.

Ron (10:25):
But did you want to see aliens?

Don (10:27):
Did you?

Ron (10:28):
think aliens were real, I guess, is a better Did all of us
think when we were children?
And then we'll come back andrevisit as adults.

Doug (10:34):
I don't want to give up the See, I was thinking we break
a rule.
I feel like the Uncannery hasdone a great job of like well,
let's explore and leave options.
But I am fair, I want to belinear as shit.
Yeah, just keep it simple.
Um, I very much want to knowwhere you gentlemen stand on.

(10:55):
Is their life in this universe?
Besides I, I very much.

Don (10:59):
I think you have to wait to the end of the episode to find
out.

Ron (11:02):
Yeah, cause they're just going to click off.
We have to get to listen.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
He likes her, he doesn't.

Doug (11:07):
Goodbye, all right.

Ron (11:10):
I believe in our audience.
Can we divide this into?

Don (11:11):
two questions.
I think we could pauserecording right now and I'll
write down what we think.
The others think.
And then we could revisit thatat the end of the episode and
see if that's not a terribleidea.

Ron (11:21):
Can we break it into two questions, Because I think there
are two questions that I feelvery differently about.
So, Doug, you said do we thinkthere is extraterrestrial life
in this universe Right, but Ithink that's separate from the
question has that life visitedour Earth?

Doug (11:36):
Yeah.

Ron (11:36):
Right.

Don (11:37):
Yeah.

Ron (11:37):
So I will say happily, I don't think this is a spoiler,
but I do think there isextraterrestrial life in the
universe we just lost half of it.

Doug (11:48):
Come back, come back, click off.
I changed my mind.
Yeah, but wait till don sayssomething.

Ron (11:53):
Yeah, but uh, like, just I feel like that's a pretty
commonly held viewpoint.
I don't think that's thatcontroversial to say.
The sheer size of the universe,right and and our understanding
of the mechanism by which lifecan occur in it suggests that
that's not impossible, thatthere's a greater than 0% chance
that other organisms have grown, whether those are even

(12:16):
bacterial organisms orintelligent organisms.
They're somewhere out there.
Do we all agree on thestatement?

Doug (12:22):
Don won't say because they have to stay in the, in the
unknown, to keep the listener.
I 100% agree.
Yeah, I think that juststatistically right, like it's
just so wild to think of theever-expanding universe and to
kind of have the idea that, yeah, we, we would be alone, is

(12:45):
fairly wild.
Um, and then I think to takethat to another step is like I
kind of think conceptually, andmaybe this is just so influenced
by the you know the episodes ofStar Trek that I've seen, but
it's like just thinking aboutthe different ways that we, yeah
, you look at like kind of the,the cosmic place of us and then

(13:08):
like what the purpose is withinthat, which is a whole different
rabbit hole, but thinking aboutother beings, like living, or
just even bacteria that we findon other planets, things like
that.
Um there, yes, I do think.
I think that we continue toexpand out.

Don (13:23):
Hmm, well, the the questions raised by the Fermi
paradox, right Like the, the yep.
The answer seems easy becausethe universe is so vast that the
probabilities of all of the,the collisions and chemistry
that's happening throughout theuniverse, it must have happened
in another place other than justhere on earth.
That's the but the paradox.

(13:43):
The Fermi paradox says that ifthat's the case, why have we not
encountered them or seen them,or seen evidence of them or
anything like that?
The um, the thing that I'verecently come across, although
it's not new by any means, um isis called the zoo theory.
Have you guys heard about?

Doug (13:58):
this oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that were being observed.

Don (14:00):
Is that?
Is that correct?

Doug (14:01):
Yeah.

Don (14:02):
So it was proposed by John Ball in 1973, but it had been
explored a little bit in fictionby some authors before then.
But yeah, the idea that we havebeen found, we just don't know
we've been found because we'rethe subjects in this wildlife
preserve and we're being keptfrom the interaction of the

(14:22):
aliens, so so that way they canstudy us or see us, and then we
don't have the interaction.

Ron (14:27):
So but if that were true, then why have we seen so many
aliens?

Don (14:33):
Because you just said you didn't see any.

Ron (14:35):
Well, I haven't seen it.
But people, we, the, thecollective, we, humanity, has
seen so many aliens over theyears, don, and there's no
arguing with the fact that there, there, we know types of aliens
, we know species of aliens, weknow where some of them live or
come from.
There are so many types ofaliens they can't be in the zoo.
They're clearly showing up andbeing like what's up?

Don (14:56):
we finished the eve online.
Uh episode.
Yeah, that one's over, right wealso finished the bigfoot one.

Doug (15:02):
So, ron, are you taking us down a similar path?

Ron (15:06):
I want to talk about.
Yeah, the different there areso many.
So I grew up really lovingaliens and like the first books
I I checked out from the librarywere all like non-fiction, ufo
and in alien books, cool right.
And I remember one inparticular was just telling me
stories about encounters peoplehave had with aliens and I was

(15:26):
it like blew my mind.
I remember like reading it on acamping trip with my dad and I
was like Dad, did you know that,like in 1975, a saucer landed
outside of a small town in Peruand it released a green gas and
these lizard creatures came outand the whole town was sick?
The whole town was sick, dad.
They have evidence.
Everyone was sick.

(15:47):
What could have caused that?
My dad was like?
That's just not true.
And I was so mad at him.
I was like what do you mean thisbook?
It was like the first time Irealized you can just put
whatever you want in a book andcall it nonfiction.
The teacher told menonfictionfiction was true stuff
, don how could this book make?
Up a story.

Doug (16:05):
Your dad was more of a scully at the end of the day?

Don (16:07):
oh definitely.
Teachers are totally reliable,unreliable you can't trust
anything.
A teacher's agreed, yeah theyoversimplify everything just
fits their rules, absolutely.

Ron (16:16):
Um, I want to talk a little bit about the progression of
alien sightings, right, becauseI think this tells us something
about the different ages of oflike of people, and where we are
sort of collectively, uh,psychically, emotionally,
culturally, right, um, theearliest alien, like experiences

(16:37):
like when do you think theylike happen?
Like when are the first ufos,when did these happen?
Like people actually seeing andreporting ufos?

Doug (16:45):
I mean, I'm instantly, instantly thinking of the meme
of the guy with the ancientaliens haircuts, instantly going
to that.
So I would imagine we're seeingpaintings that we can't
describe, you know, cavepaintings that we can't describe
in inscriptions and going it'sgot to be aliens, that's what
they saw so that's definitelylike a school of thought and UFO

(17:06):
UFOlogy, right, the study ofunidentified flying objects,
which I think is like not what.

Ron (17:12):
They're not UFOs anymore Now, they're like aerial for not
you, fap, it's way worse, it'sa way worse acronym nowadays.
Um, but I think a lot of thatstuff is, like you know,
ascribed from like theperspective of the 2000s, like,
as far as I can tell, like yes,sometimes people see weird
lights and stuff in the skiesand they report on them in like

(17:32):
the 16th century or something.
But it's like they're usuallymeteors or you know, just sort
of like not so phenomenal aerialphenomenon, right the first.
Like real ufos, like are aproduct of like the mid 20th
century, right like world war ii, that kind of era moving

(17:53):
onwards, right they be.
We start seeing ufos in theskies and stuff like this.
Oh, I think it goes back a lotfurther than that.
Really, how?

Don (18:01):
much further the the earliest that I can find is
ancient mesopotamia.
There we go, give us thedescription.
So the Sumerians in 4000 BC arewriting about the Anunnaki, who
are beings that descend fromthe sky or from the stars, and
it's in relatively likelegendary texts.

(18:21):
Right, it's in the Epic ofGilgamesh, so it's well recorded
as a an ancient source, um, butthere's that the ancient
Egyptians have similar umcircles of fire stories that
exist from at least 3000 BC.
Um, indians, uh, the ancientIndians have uh have stories
about, uh, a text about flyingmachines existing from 2000 BC.

(18:46):
So it goes back really far,this idea that there's this.
Well, yeah, and this is goingto take us off on a tangent, I
think.

Doug (18:56):
I don't think there was any way we weren't going to do
that on this episode.

Ron (18:59):
Doug said we were not exploring this episode, please
follow my script.

Don (19:04):
But that idea that there's a being coming from the sky,
like it's always been from thesky, like why are there beings
coming from the sky and not fromunderneath the earth, when, you
know, to an ancientcivilization like under the
earth, would have been aslegitimate of a mystery as above
.
But all of the stories arecoming from the same location.

(19:24):
They're all coming from thestars, from the skies.
And you think back to the, youknow, I know that the ancient
Babylonians had not, yeah, hadlike a sense of the universe and
they were able to map the starsand the calendar and all that.
So, but the, the way that thatsky was created, like it didn't
allow for as much distance as wetoday know exists up there.

(19:45):
So I think that's interestingthat all of those stories are
coming from the same spot and iteven fits into our language
because the Roman god, jupiter,the king of the gods right, it's
actually a compound word comingout of Proto-Indo-European
languages.
The Pater part of it actuallyis the same root as the root for

(20:09):
father Potter.
Oh yeah yeah, yeah, so Jupiteractually.

David Icke (20:13):
uh, father, it means sky father of the Jew.

Don (20:17):
Barry, in a proto Indo-European, which is the
language that we don't have anyactual record of, but that they
are recreating by um, by findingsimilarities in European
languages.
So it's a language thatpre-exists any of the current
languages that we know of.

Doug (20:32):
Let's not just get off the path, let's go ahead and
destroy it.

Speaker 6 (20:35):
At this point, no I did so much work to build that
path.

Doug (20:40):
We'll never come back Um.
I instantly was thinking aboutum.
Are we familiar with thebiblical reference, that
reference to the Nephilim?

Ron (20:49):
Yeah, we love me some Nephilim.

Doug (20:51):
Yeah, it's really fun.

Ron (20:52):
This is the coolest stuff in the Bible.

Speaker 6 (20:55):
The monsters and the weird people who screwed aliens
and made creatures.

Doug (21:01):
So for them it's celestial beings, right, and so, yeah,
there's this idea, and it's verybriefly mentioned, but the idea
of these absolutely giganticpeople, um, that had, yeah, uh,
fraternized, if you will, with,with humans, um, and then, yeah,
like people who are going withthe really wild alien theories,
they're going to say like, well,that was and it, and they'll go

(21:23):
into all of this territory.
Um, we, yeah, we're obsessedwith the idea of came from, yeah
, usually the sky.

Ron (21:31):
But I don't, I don't, I don't ascribe a lot of that
stuff to UFOs honestly.
Like yes, there is there a linkthere?
People descending from the sky,of course, of course.
But to me that has its rootsmore in just like a sort of like
just legendary material, themythic in general, right, the
sort of like we who's, who's themask guy?

(21:53):
You know the freaking.
Who am I thinking of?

Don (21:56):
phantom of the opera no no, no the the scholar jason the
hero of a thousand faces.

Ron (22:01):
Who am I thinking?

Don (22:02):
of joseph campbell thank you.

Ron (22:03):
Thank you, right campbell, and jason Bough and all these
theories that link how humansacross culture, across times
like have all these similarities.

David Icke (22:12):
Archetypes yes exactly right.

Ron (22:14):
To me, that's just like a human archetype.
Right, the sky is alwayssuperior to underground, because
the sky is inaccessible.
Right, and the sky provides somuch more to humanity than
beneath the earth.
Right, beneath the earth iswhere we bury our dead.
It's it's the dead land, it'shades.

Don (22:30):
Right and and of course you else gets hold of it then yeah,
yeah my locks.

Ron (22:35):
What are they called the?

Don (22:37):
more locks, more like that's the time machine, but
also journey to the center, yeah, yeah um, but uh, anyways, I
don't.

Ron (22:45):
I don't count that as alien stuff, though.
Like I don't think angels areproof of aliens, I don't think
like ancient beings coming fromthe sky, the Anunnaki.
That's not aliens to me.

Doug (22:55):
That's just like myth stuff and I'm with you on that,
yeah, like.
But what I find interesting isthat there are people that will
say it isn't angels, it has tobe aliens.

Ron (23:05):
Like that is interesting to me, that people and it isn't
angels, it has to be aliens,like that is interesting, right
that people.
And when does thattransformation occur?
And to me, that's why I thinkof UFOs being a strictly 20th
century phenomenon, because ofthis combination of science and
technology, and like theshrinking of the imaginary world
and the expanding of theobservable world.
And now, instead of there beingcelestial beings in the sky, we

(23:28):
need scientific observableorganisms in the sky right and
so some of the first of theseare like um, are you guys, do
you remember back when we'retalking about racist dnd?
And I said, uh hey, in raciststar frontiers you can play any
of a number of very excitingspecies, nordic or a.

David Icke (23:48):
Nordic or a Negro Negro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ron (23:50):
So Nordics were like some of the first aliens that were
documented by people reportingto have encounters with aliens.
This was like a term.
These were Nordic aliensbecause they were always
described as being very tallseven to eight foot tall white
people with blonde hair, verytall, seven to eight foot tall
white people with blonde hair.
And I think like the first guyto kind of describe these was a

(24:12):
Polish American author namedGeorge Adamski and he said he
was like in the desert inCalifornia and with a couple of
friends and a cigar shapedsaucer came down and landed
outside the desert and a mancame out and he was blonde and
wearing moccasins and he saidhis name was Orthon and he gave
George a warning.
He said you guys got to coolout this Cold War stuff, man.

(24:33):
Like nuclear bombs are bad.

Doug (24:36):
What else was he doing in the desert?
Because it sounds like theremight have been some extra work
with a cigar shape.

Ron (24:41):
Definitely just hanging out with friends and talking about
their 401k.
I don't know.
Adamski is very much consideredlike a hoaxster, like he was
like into occult stuff back inthe 20s, like dude actually like
was like fighting pancho villaduring the mexican revolution
stuff like, like lived a prettycrazy and cool life, but also

(25:03):
just like trying to sellanything he could and so he
became like a ufo guy somewherein the 1940s and 50s.
um the problem with like, solike, because george adamski
popularized this idea of thenordic aliens, other people
across america and europe likereported like oh yes, I too saw
an alien.
And and there's likecommonalities in all these

(25:23):
reports they're all blonde,they're all nice, uh, they're
all benevolent.
And they're all blonde, they'reall nice, they're all
benevolent and they're all likesuper obsessed with the Cold War
.
These aliens are always likeyou guys, you're going to ruin
yourselves, you're going to blowup your planet.

Don (25:35):
Please heed our warning.

Speaker 6 (25:39):
That's why Rocky got knocked out by Dolph Ivan yeah.

Don (25:41):
Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (25:42):
Ivan Drago.

Ron (25:44):
I will break you, I will break you, but like, can you
think of a reason why, likeeveryone in the forties and
fifties, uh would be seeingbenevolent white people telling
them please don't shoot thenukes?

Doug (25:58):
You gotta have something dependent on, don't you All that
anxiety and fear?

Ron (26:02):
So yeah Right, it's like clearly speaks to a sort of
societal angst.
Um, and not only that.
Uh, in 1951 a movie came outcalled the day the earth stood
still.
And any idea what the messageof the aliens is in the day the
earth stood still?

Doug (26:20):
um, don't overbake your brownies we're not gonna move
this earth until you guys dowhat we say no again.

Ron (26:29):
They're benevolent aliens who say don't shoot nukes.
You guys are very close todestroying your world they're
very wise aliens they are andthey're played by a white guy,
like one of the nords.
So like uh, this theme I keptseeing in like you whenever
people start seeing a new typeor want to catalog a new species

(26:49):
of alien.
There was like a movie thatcame out two years before this
that depicted the alien this way, and then it kind of like
infiltrates the popularimagination.

Don (26:57):
So you think that the people aren't actually
experiencing these encounterswith aliens?
I don't think, remembering amovie they saw.

Ron (27:03):
Well, I want to come back to that question, right, because
?
That's an important questionbut if I were to ask you guys a
drawn alien, what are you gonnalike?
What's what's today's alien?
What are we gonna?

Doug (27:10):
do, it's not gonna.
It doesn't work for me becauseI just I love the xenomorph from
ridley, scott's alien so much.
That's forever stuck in my mind.
But so it's hr.

Don (27:22):
Geiger and that's absolutely not alien to me like
yes, I know the movie but I meanto me very much it's it's robot
.

David Icke (27:29):
I know it's not, but like the way it is.

Don (27:32):
It's depicted in the film Like it's very mechanical Okay.

Doug (27:35):
Yeah.

Don (27:35):
So now I'm I'm going to draw gray, Like that's.

Ron (27:38):
Yeah, yeah, a gray.
What's a gray alien?

Don (27:40):
done.
A gray alien has the, the largeeyes that the kind of almond
shape, the uh other shorter,stat in stature, kind of
elongated bodies sort of like.
Like, oddly their bodies aremore like toddler proportions,
like the size of their head istoo big and their bodies are
small and yeah but uh, the onesthat you know come waddling out

(28:04):
of the flying saucer and thecartoons and stuff, exactly
exactly.

Ron (28:08):
And this is like the next phase of the alien that people
encounter right Like the grayalien and this is from what I
could tell kind of waspopularized in 1961.
There's a famous abduction thatoccurs in 1961.
Are either of you familiar withthe Betty and Barney Hill
abduction?
No, oh, this is great, this islike the abduction In 1961,

(28:30):
betty and Barney Hill.
They're a married couple,they're a biracial couple in
1961 in New Hampshire and theydecide to have like an impromptu
honeymoon.
They'd never had a honeymoon.
So they go out for like aweekend drive and they're
driving across I don't knowsomewhere late in New Hampshire.

(28:51):
Uh and uh, one night they'relike at a coffee shop and it's
like 10 PM and they're like youknow, we could probably just
make it home, like if we justbeeline it right now, we'll,
we'll avoid traffic and I thinkthere's like a storm on the way.
So they do that.
They're driving late at night,late at night.
And then suddenly they likestart to feel kind of odd.
They had remembered seeingthese lights in the sky right,

(29:14):
kind of blinking and followingthe car.
Barney was like in the army andso he was like oh, that's like
not like any airplane I rememberseeing, seeing.
And then when they get home theyrealize that like there was two
hours they seem to be missing.
They have no memory of like howdid we get home?
Their shoes are scuffed, bettysays her dress has been torn.

(29:35):
Their watches, theirwristwatches, don't work and
never work again, and they justfeel very odd and strange.
And so they start having thesesort of like anxious moments.
They feel confused.
Betty reports having bad dreams.
For a long time they just sortof like live with this bad
feeling but then trying toresearch it, betty goes to the

(29:56):
library and she starts lookingup books and eventually she
finds books about UFOs and alienencounters and alien abductions
.
And it's like a couple of yearslater I want to say it's like
1963 or so they finally decideto see a psychologist because
these symptoms haven't reallygone away.
They just feel ill, like whathappened that night.
And eventually they go, theymeet a psychologist and he's a

(30:17):
hypnotherapist and so he decidesto put them under this kind of
burgeoning new field ofhypnotherapy.
We're going to hypnotize themand see if they can recover any
lost memories therapy.
We're going to hypnotize themand see if they can recover any
lost memories.
And when he does this they bothtell this story about their car
being brought to a stop.
A spacecraft landed on the roadin front of them.
Small little gray people withalmond shaped eyes came out of

(30:39):
the ship and brought them inside.
And they do abduction stuffright.
This is where the idea of likesort of being surgically
operated on, being probeded,being scanned, uh, being like,
observed and experimented oncomes from and uh, and
eventually they do this, uh, andthen they let the barney and
betty go and then they get backin their car and they completely

(31:00):
erase their memories, right?

Don (31:03):
abduction.
And what was of course?
What was their last name?
Hill hill.

Ron (31:08):
Yeah, is that an important clue?

Don (31:11):
well, no, but when you started the story it said that
they're betty and barney.
I thought it was betty andbarney.
Rubble and hill and rubble arenot that different, don't forget
the flintstones and the jetsons, and sometimes they met once
Actually, are there any?

Doug (31:29):
I don't think there are aliens on the Jetsons.
It's just robots, isn't it?

Don (31:32):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that it's all retrofuturism.
Yeah, yeah, but interesting.
So how did she do research onthis if they were the first ones
to be so?
I?

Ron (31:48):
think there have been stories of alien abductions,
right like, or encounters withaliens, right like.
Even george adamski said helike went into a spaceship once
and they started flying themaround the universe and he went
to jupiter and he went to venus.
He saw the aliens homeworld onvenus, which is like why even
people at the time didn't reallytake him seriously because they
knew like no one can live onvenus you moron.

(32:08):
But uh, so like these, thisliterature exists, right, um,
but this is the considered, thestory that popularizes this idea
in the american imagination,because they write a newspaper
article about this and thatarticle becomes a best-selling
book.
It's called, uh, theinterrupted journey, right, and
then they eventually make a, amovie version of it.

(32:28):
It's got james earl jones as asbarney, right, and so it just
sort of like goes out everywhereand since then, um, according
to like, uh, ufo historians like, there's a um the nordic aliens
are no longer reallyencountered by people.
All, all sort of reported alienencounters involve these gray
aliens.

Doug (32:47):
Um, and this kind of culminates in steven spielberg's
close encounters with a thirdkind right which comes out in
the 70s and the aliens arelittle tiny gray almanide
children looking aliens right Iwas trying to remember the first
time that I'd seen yeah, thatwas.

Ron (33:02):
I think that that was my first experience seeing them as
well and a lot of people havetried to obviously explain what
possibly could have happened touh, uh, betty and Barney, and
one of the kind of mostinteresting finds is that, um,

(33:22):
just two weeks before they uhwent for their hypnotherapy
session, they ate mushrooms.
They got completely blitzed.
Do you remember there was atelevision show called the Outer
Limits?

Don (33:38):
Yeah.

Ron (33:39):
Science fiction sort of Twilight Zone-esque show, right?
Well, the Outer Limits aired aseries of episodes that all
involved alien abductions, andthe aliens portrayed in those
television shows were almostexactly the aliens that were
described by Barney.
At least, barney drew the alienthat he encountered and it

(34:00):
doesn't quite look like ourversion of a gray alien, but it
is bald, it has these bigwraparound eyes.
He continually in his sessionmentions the eyes, the eyes, the
glowing eyes, and it's likealso basically a line from the
show like, oh, the eyes of evil,and blah, blah.
So there's like a succession ofthree episodes that all involve
like when one of them, uh,spaceship lands and stops a car

(34:23):
right and and takes the peopleinside, and another one there's
like a surgery scene where analien is trying to turn the
people uh that it captures intolike servants and stuff, and uh,
betty and barney both say like,uh, they were at least betty
did that, she wasn't likefamiliar with this show, but um,
it seems uh uncertain if that's, you know, like maybe they did,

(34:45):
maybe they didn't, who can cansay?
But it seems like the runningtheory is that they've kind of
had these images, these ideas,imprinted in them prior to
having gone into hypnotherapy.

Don (34:55):
So it sounds like what you're saying is that that
television show was really wellresearched and grounded in
authentic fact of the Laneencounter Very much so.

Ron (35:05):
And there's also like small differences in their stories,
like they were put in separatesessions, right and and barney,
who was like a veteran of worldwar ii.
He described the aliens aslooking like nazis like, like
they had nazi uniforms.

David Icke (35:16):
The leader was very hitler-esque.

Ron (35:19):
Betty described the aliens as nice and actually friendly.
She enjoyed talking to them andthey were very kind um, whereas
barney found them more hostileum.

Don (35:27):
So it sounds, aliens are just like people.

Ron (35:29):
Some people are nice and some people some people I'm
gonna say that maybe they, youknow, we're dredging up multiple
subconscious experiences andtrying to meld them together
into a way that makes sense, ina similar way that we might have
a dream but then what wouldhave been the either?

Don (35:46):
so this happened to them together.
Right, they were travelingtogether on the road they had,
and whatever this episode isthat is causing them to, to, to
believe, or want to believe, orto to fabricate this memory.
Yeah Right, like what was thethere had to have been like a
common sort of event, right,yeah, something had to have
happened.

Ron (36:05):
The best explanation for this I could find is not super
exciting, right, but there is aguy who apparently has spent he
lives in the area in which thistook place and he's spent his
whole life trying to counterthis story and apparently nearby
there is a beacon, an airplanebeacon of sorts, that's really

(36:29):
tall and it blinks and it canlook like a UFO if you're
driving through the sky at nightor something like that.
And secondly, the idea thatthey were just tired, right,
that they were driving whiledrowsy.

Don (36:42):
Why would that make them feel bad for like three weeks?

Ron (36:44):
That part I agree, it's odd right.

Doug (36:48):
It was the worst coffee you could have had at that
coffee stop ever.
Somebody put somethingpsychedelic in there.
They're like we're going todrive home right now, honey.

Don (37:00):
Where were they driving again?

Ron (37:01):
New Hampshire I'm pretty sure it's New Hampshire.
They were trying to get toPortsmouth.
No-transcript feeling was maybejust like a you know an O, like

(37:39):
a sort of over anxiety aboutbeing uh watched, being being
people being hostile to them asa couple and that, in some way,
that this was just the uneasethat they were feeling right and
living during this time in avery white part of the united
states, um, and a potentiallyvery hostile, uh place, and that
this manifested in thesefeelings and this need to

(38:00):
explain it, um, through findingthese UFO explanations.

Don (38:06):
No, no, no, no, no no, what do you guys remember from your
sixth grade memorizing factsabout the states of the United
States?
They're going to New Hampshire.
New Hampshire's state bird isthe purple finch.
Morning dove, purple finch.

Doug (38:21):
Yeah.

Don (38:22):
Portsmouth finch.
What's the nickname of NewHampshire, the who-hares state?
It's the nickname of New.

Ron (38:27):
Hampshire, the Whoopi Air State.
It's the Granite State, okay.

Don (38:31):
Okay, the gray, that could be red granite, which means
they're driving by red rocks.

Doug (38:38):
Okay, which is?

Don (38:40):
clearly a sign of aliens, because Doug had an alien
experience.

Doug (38:43):
Something is happening right now in our space and we
are going to need to.

David Icke (38:47):
I see something right now.

Speaker 6 (38:51):
I am being beamed up, orthon.

Doug (38:54):
They are speaking to me.
Oh, they are speaking to me,yeah.

Ron (39:00):
So, anyways, I bring this up, as this was like the famous
gray alien story.
Since then it seems to havereplaced the idea of a
benevolent alien creatures inthe, at least the american
imagination, with more hostilealien um creatures, right, and
then I wanted to get to the mosthostile of all.

Doug (39:18):
Right, because it gets worse the xenomorph from ridley,
scott's alien for some reason Ican't find anything that seemed
.

Ron (39:25):
no one has seen a xenomorph this has not influenced aliens.
Haven't you seen aliens?
I've seen aliens, but my bighypothesis is people watch TV.
It gets stuck in their brainsand then when they see something
they can't explain, theyreplace it with.
They go through the Rolodex intheir brain and they're like oh
yeah, the guy from CloseEncounters.

(39:47):
Oh yeah, the guy from the Daythe Earth Stood, still Same way
that HG Wells loved fairies.
He didn't see no aliens becauseno one had drawn a gray alien
yet, but people were talkingabout fairies and toadstools.
Don, what do you know aboutfairies?

Don (40:12):
I've never been more certain about anything than you
know about fairies in the 19thcentury, tell us about it.
Just that they were.
It was popular to believe infairies and and they were some
of the first, um, I don't know,supernatural, supernatural, um,
uh, creatures.
That scientific proof was wasprovided for, like photographic

(40:32):
proof right, right, right yeahright, and so it was a.
And there's photographic proofof aliens as well, right of
course, yes, so it's a famously.
But I actually think I want tocircle back to this idea.
So go ahead and and tell usabout scary alien, and then
let's circle back to this,because I I just bring the
fairies back up Because I've gotsome theories.

Ron (40:51):
Okay, okay, scariest alien.
Have you heard of thereptilians?
Oh, yeah, yeah, doug, what doyou know about the reptilians?

Doug (40:59):
I cannot remember the guy's name.
I can't.

Ron (41:02):
You want to.

David Icke (41:03):
I know it's coming, but it's, david.

Doug (41:05):
Ike, david, ike.
Okay, there it is.
Yeah, it's the idea.
You know that celebrity that'sdoing so well, you know that
really rich individual that'sinfluencing the world.
Do you know what's behind theskin?
Reptile, reptile, baby.
And we're not talking about theMortal Kombat character, we're
talking about a group of people.

(41:27):
Is this where skinwalkers comesfrom?
Like this idea too, of likebehind the facade.

Ron (41:32):
I think Skinwalkers have a basis in actual, like indigenous
American myth.
But I do think the suddenfascination with Skinwalkers in
the last 20 years is a mutation,mutation of the of the
reptilian um a story, right, andthis, uh, this reptilian story

(41:55):
is exactly what you're saying,doug, and it's popularized by a
guy named david ike who, in the1990s david ike, is still alive.
He's he's a british.
He was a british like sportsbroadcaster, like a soccer
jockey or whatever they call himit's that sock jock baby a
football voice man, but uh, andthen at some

David Icke (42:14):
point in the 1990s he went insane.

Doug (42:17):
He said he was like visited by an angel, uh and that
he was told he was the nephilimhe had to.

Ron (42:22):
Yeah, he had to.
He had to save humanity bygiving them the truth and he
kind of wrote a bunch of booksand he tried on lots of
different hats.
But the thing that I think kindof rocketed him the most was a
book in 1999 called the BiggestSecret.
And the Biggest Secret positsthat actually all the rich and

(42:45):
powerful people in the world,world leaders, George Bush,
Barack Obama Barack Obama didn'texist in 1999.

Don (42:51):
Well, I guess he did, but not in any way he did.
Well, they had to manufacturehim that year.

Ron (42:57):
But like Madonna.
He said like any kind of famousperson was actually a
shape-shifting reptilian alienand that these reptilian aliens
had infiltrated the Earth fromlike the Draco star system
something stupid.

Don (43:12):
Yeah, I don't think like you think about all the rich and
most powerful people that existin our world right now.

Ron (43:17):
like I can see the similarities, this is actually
this is my problem with it,because if you listen to David
Icke, at first you're like oh,it's a fun metaphor, right that
the rich and powerful are.
I mean he literally says theylike drink the blood of children
right they, they shape shift,they, they mean us ill, they

(43:37):
formed a powerful cabal andthey're and they're trying to
enslave us, blah, blah blah.
And if you listen to that andjust think of it as like a
science fiction story, you'relike like yeah, that's pretty, I
agree, Like the powerful peoplein the world do suck and they
don't have our best interests atheart.

(44:01):
But he like literally means itanti-Semitism inherent to this
message because it trucks in alot of conspiracy theories that
go many centuries back that allinvolve the idea that, hey, very
wealthy people, especially verywealthy Jewish people in Europe
, are actually secretly tryingto mastermind us and control the

(44:21):
world and there are plenty ofstatements in Ike's writing that
allude to this and that he isplaying into this story.
He will say when confronted onit that no, no, no, he is not
anti-Semitic, he is not racist,blah, blah, blah.
He's just trying to unveil atrue conspiracy of powerful

(44:41):
people and that not all thereptilians are Jews, but a lot
of them happen to be, and thatnot all the reptilians are Jews,
but a lot of them happen to be.
And this is a cause, I think, Ithink very rational criticism
of this argument, besides thefact that probably there are not
alien reptiles on this planetwho shape shift into the forms

(45:02):
of our government leaders.

Doug (45:03):
Yeah, I mean it's, it'd be it'd be funny to continue to
scapegoat the idea, right,because then it's just like
again, it's another similarthing.
Okay, Like going, I'm seeingthis theme that's running
through of like cold war, fear,right With the Nords, um, racial
tent, uh, the, the feeling ofparanoia and being watched with

(45:27):
the grays, with the couple thatyou have.
And then, once again, and Imean just unfortunately, like,
looking through the history ofantisemitism, it's always
interesting to me, I think,specifically with this one, that
it always is under the guise oflike, I'm not saying it's just,
it is just Jewish people, itjust happens to be a lot of them
, which of course naturallyleads to the racist thought of,
but it it is Jews, you know, andI, yeah, it's fascinating to me

(45:51):
looking at this because it'slike instantly put in this very
uh, not benevolent kind of scope.
Yeah, it's unfortunate.

Don (46:01):
Well, and I was just going to say that, setting aside the
obvious racial component thatyou're bringing up, like the,
the base anxiety there is, justthere are, there are people that
have power that is out of mycontrol and and it's not even
worth fighting against because,like it's alien power, like how?

Doug (46:19):
can I, how could I?

Don (46:20):
right, so it's.
It's not just that, it'soverwhelming amount of wealth
and overwhelming amount ofpolitical power and social power
.
But it really underscores thatfeeling of I don't know, of
absolute uselessness in thatuniverse, like I have no control
over my own life because thisother race of creature is

(46:40):
actually secretly controllingthe world.

Doug (46:44):
Yep, and now common enemy.
It's the aliens who are doingit.
But then it gets scary becauseit's like well, and then group
of people, and then that leadsto other really dark thoughts.
Right, you can kind?

Ron (46:51):
of link that back to the nordic alien thing, right where
the anxiety over the cold war,war and potential global
annihilation.
We need to invent a superpowerful from beyond the stars
race of people to tell us to beour parents right To be like hey
you guys are really not doingso good.
It is that thing that I findinteresting.

(47:13):
And then too, like I think youlaid it out really well, Doug
and David Icke's reptilianaliens, which are, I would say
say, kind of like the new, mostpopular sort of alien.
Uh, it speaks to like the neweranxieties of like concentrated
world power, right.
Or like we're concentratedpower in general right.

(47:33):
Across the world and I want toplay a clip real fast, uh, from
a documentary I've seen.
Uh, this is a documentary withJohn Ronson.
You guys ever seen any of hisstuff?
No, he did this really greatdocumentary in 2001 where he
basically just wanted to followDavid Icke around and let him
talk his weird stuff, becauseJohn Ronson's just kind of
interested in weird guys.

(47:53):
And he winds up.
So David Icke is about to go ona speaking tour in Canada but
John Ronson also winds upfilming a group in Canada called
the Canadian Jewish Congresswho wants to stop David Icke
from speaking because they'revery aware of this anti-Semitic

(48:14):
messaging in his texts and inhis talks.
And so they kind of under.
They launch a campaign to kindof prevent David Icke from
speaking, trying to keep himessentially, they start kind of
protest outside of radiostations so that the radio
stations will cancel hisappearances or just physically
block him from entering intobookstores.
And the campaign goes prettypoorly because it turns out like

(48:36):
a lot of Canadians want to hearDavid Icke talk.
For some people he's just thefunny reptile man, but for
others he's speaking truth topower.
And at the end of thisdocumentary I wanted to play
this clip, because this clipshows the members of this
Canadian Jewish Congress kind oftalking about the failures of
their campaign to stop Icke andwhat people like about Icke, and

(48:58):
I think it is salient today.
Would you please play that clipfor us, don.

Speaker 6 (49:03):
The strange thing is that many in the coalition share
David's conspiracy theoriesabout an evil elite ruling the
world.
This is what the left-wingershere were battling against in
Seattle and Prague.
They just don't believe theseelitists to be shape-shifting
lizards or Jews.

David Icke (49:20):
What we do have to remember is out there there are
lots of people who are undecidedon many things that he stands
for that sound very progressive.
He's against the WTO.
I'm against the WTO.
There are very rationalexplanations of corporate
globalization.
It's not a conspiracy.
Corporations do what they dobecause they are corporations
and we don't need to imagineconspiracies to explain why they

(49:43):
would do everything theypossibly can to increase their
profits and take away the rightsof workers and and suppress
democracy.
That's, that's their business.
In fact, that's their onlybusiness.

Speaker 6 (49:54):
The problem is this David Ike has become so popular
here in Vancouver that thosepeople who don't believe in the
lizards are beginning to seemlike has-beens his views are
expressed as the answer.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
You know what I mean.
A lot of especially youngpeople are getting involved in
these issues and they're seeingthat you know this big task
before them and we sort of havethe answers as a group of people
.
But DVI has the real answer andit's these conspiracies and
their lizards and that's linkedto dehumanizing.
You know, the elite People whoare just finding their ground on
these issues are like don'ttell me, I'm stupid, I'm looking

(50:26):
for some answers.
And he seems to have them.

Speaker 6 (50:28):
But it is all over for the coalition by the end of
the week.
They disband In getting Davidbanned from radio shows and book
signings.
The anti-elitists havethemselves behaved like a
shadowy elite, like the hiddenhand, and behaved like a shadowy
elite, like the hidden hand.

Ron (50:47):
And nobody likes a shadowy elite, and I think this from
2001 explains a lot of what'shappened over the last 20 years.
Right, I think, like David Icke, as a man peddling a bizarre
and obviously untrue story aboutreptilian aliens, did become
popular because a lot of peoplehave that shared anxiety of I

(51:07):
really hate the people in power,like it is very obvious that
they do not care about me, and Iwill kind of take any story
that seems to want to, or followany person who seems to claim
to want to, diminish their power, whether they have that ability
, or not?

(51:28):
Right, like I'll believe thatthey're aliens, if that lets me,
like, hate them a little bitmore easily, or something, right
?
Well, it dehumanizes.

Don (51:38):
Right, it takes away that that the guilt that you have
over thinking that anotherperson of your same species is
lower.

Ron (51:48):
And allows for a common enemy that's easier to
collectively hate as well, yeah,things that have zero basis in
any rational kind of thinkingbut can very easily be linked to
what these people, who clearlydon't care about my suppressed

(52:08):
wages and the cost of living,are telling me to now put this
thing in me.
I'm not going to listen to themIf that makes them mad.
If that sticks it to them, thenyeah, that's where I'm going to
go, and I think in some way,david Icke is uh the realist
alien because we live in, in, inin the world, uh, uh, to an

(52:32):
extent that he has uh heraldedRight.

Don (52:36):
Yeah.

Ron (52:55):
But, the.

Don (52:56):
It's not a new phenomenon to hate the, the elite right,
the those that have that muchpower over you.
But I think one of the thingsthat the 20th century brought to
us is the expanding publicityand access to media that an
individual has right.
A thousand years ago, livedunder a tyrant king, probably
had feelings about that tyrantking that he couldn't do
anything about, couldn't sayanything about, because he
couldn't read or write.
But through the 20th centurynot today like all it takes is a
couple of thumbs and asmartphone and you can post
anything you want.

Ron (53:13):
Yeah, and it's definitely not new to hate the elite.
But I think the the new, thenovel kind of thing about this
and you, you kind of said it,don is that because the reason
why this elite is so powerfuland evil is now outside of our
control, outside of my hands,therefore I don't have to
actually do anything about it.
It used to be the mine workerswould grab a bunch of guns and

(53:35):
shoot the people trying to breakthe strike and stuff.
They would actually fight thepeople in power.
They could at least agree upon.
Hey, the person in power isvulnerable, right, he is not
invincible.
But now if he's an alien?

Don (53:50):
Yeah, it alleviates my sense of incapacity, because
it's not that someone else ismore successful because they
worked harder or had morebenefits than I did.
It's because they're acompletely different creature.

Ron (54:03):
Yeah, yeah yeah, so it in a , in a ironic way, it's the most
powerful tool of the eliteright to cloak themselves in
this fictional story of theirown, um, invincibility indeed
can we, uh, can we bring it backto the greatest tale of aliens?

Doug (54:26):
And is this Ridley Scott again?
No, this one's not Ridley Scott.
This is the X-Files.

Ron (54:31):
Prometheus.
Oh yeah, prometheus was prettygood.
Take us to X-Files, doug.

Doug (54:36):
Just for a moment for anybody not familiar I brought
up Scully earlier but any notfamiliar with the show, the
dynamic and what I believe madethat show so successful, why I

(54:57):
enjoyed it so much is, of courseyou had two FBI agents, one of
them being the conspirator, andMulder, who was sent there to
keep him under wraps and makesure that he isn't going too
wild with what he's doing.
And of course the dynamic ofthe show plays off of the
constant we're being exposed tothings.
And then Scully tries to find arational explanation and Mulder
says how could you possibly seethat from what we just saw?

(55:17):
And at various times they rangebetween, uh, you know, scully
and Mulder, kind of Mulder beingput under the thumb and going
like, ah, maybe the things thatI see, I don't have a rational
basis.
And then that time Scully islike there's for sure alien life
because of what we've just done.

Ron (55:35):
Point of the story is Don't leave out the raging sexual
tension.

Doug (55:45):
Yes, of course that's.
That is a very big part of uh,I think, especially for that era
, right, but, um, I think it wasin this uh done since you have
access.
If you remember, I believe itwas Mulder's brother.
I think that this is where itall stems from is Mulder's
brother was suddenly gone.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
Like suddenly disappeared.

Doug (56:01):
Yes, suddenly disappeared Is this correct?
Supposedly killed by thesmoking man?

Don (56:06):
Oh, you spoiled it.

Doug (56:09):
You told me to look.
That comes later.
No, yes, but in the beginninghe believes.
I don't remember if it'sabduction, but he just has
constant flashbacks to know ithad to be something else.
And of course he has the famousposter in his office that says

(56:29):
I want to believe and I thinkthat for the unexplainable, or
this can't be, this or this isso terrible that I can't connect
to this.
It does tend to push this ideaof alien or foreign.
It's beyond comprehensionbecause if it becomes this, then
at least I can focus on this.
And at times it's anxiety, attimes it can turn into racism or

(56:49):
pain.
But it's fascinating to me thatpeople will continue the cycle
of I need to put something inplace to explain the miseries or
anxieties of life, because itis too great and I think it
speaks to our human character,because we are so um, there is
something almost unexplainableabout the amount of pain and
anguish and also the joy andexuberance that we go through as

(57:11):
human beings, and I think thatthe alien is a great way to
express that, because it's.
If there's something evenbeyond us, then how I interact
with that becomes even a morehuman experience, even though it
is alien.

Don (57:25):
And it's that, that filter that your, your culture, your
brain puts on your experiencebecause of your culture, that I
find really interesting, becausethe you know we were talking we
started the episode talkingabout the ancient Sumerians and
and right, and the way thatancient people understood these
phenomenon is different than theway that a Victorian person

(57:48):
explains that phenomenon andit's different than the way that
a modern person explains thatphenomenon.
But that doesn't change thephenomenon, it just changes the
explanation.
And you can see that evenbetween the Eastern and Western
perspectives and the westernperspective, like you point out,
ron, we tend to think of aliensas a mid-20th century sort of
invention, technology and and acold war anxiety, but from um

(58:12):
earlier times eastern umcultures tend to look at at like
, uh, alien encounters.
Of the things that we wouldwould describe as alien
encounters, are described interms of dragons in.
Chinese culture and in Japaneseculture it's peaceful
visitations, spirits, right,right.
But then, if you just focus onthat Western culture, circle

(58:36):
back to the fairies that we weretalking about a little while
ago.
Those same like I said, thesame phenomenon are just get
filtered through that culture.
And there's a name for that.
There's a folklorist call itcultural morphing, which means
that you have an experience andthen your culture tells you how
to interpret that experience.
So for ancient people it wouldbe the gods and it's anxiety

(58:59):
over natural forces.
And then we get to the medievalperiod and it's demons and
witches and, and, uh,christianity, uh, the enemies of
Christianity, um.
And then the Victorian periodit's fairies, um.
And then we get to the aliensin the 20th century as our sort
of explanation for the anxietiesthat we have.
And I think you did a reallygood job of walking us through

(59:21):
how that anxiety in the 20thcentury sort of evolves from the
peaceful Nordic visitorstelling us to be peaceful to the
reptilians who are destroyingour planet.

Ron (59:34):
And I can't wait to see what comes next.
Honestly, I hope our next alienvisitors are kinder fuzzier.
I can't wait to see Gen Z'saliens, I guess.

Don (59:46):
That was actually one you were bringing up that especially
the early 20th century storiestend to.
The stories tend to mimiccultural representations that
happened right before.
But then I'm thinking like whatDoug says, like I haven't heard
a story of someone beingabducted by a xenomorph and or
with um, what was the?

(01:00:07):
The movie?
A few years ago that one wasnominated for best picture um
alien movie, yeah, where they'retrying to figure out the
language.

Ron (01:00:14):
Oh yeah, arrival Right, and like nobody has a squid story,
right when they've been.

Don (01:00:20):
So that seems to be shifting a little bit.
Like the alien abduction storystill relies on the, the gray,
or the reptilian, or the right,the nordic.
We haven't moved past those inour encounter stories that I
know of, do you?

Ron (01:00:35):
no, there has to be, I think, like a sort of magic, uh
culmination of variables, right?
It like it, that it needs to bea standout image, popular
Everyone saw it but also in someway reflect, like we were
saying, the anxieties of thetime or the concerns of people
and I think, yeah, I agree, thexenomorph to me has never been
an alien, he's just a monsterLike.
To me, alien is a great monstermovie.

Doug (01:00:57):
It's not.
It's not about aliens actually.
That's my biggest problem withit is that the movie called
Alien is the least about aliensof any alien movie I've seen.

Ron (01:01:09):
It's the most about aliens.
It's called Alien.
It should just be calledScreamin' Space or something.

Doug (01:01:13):
It's just the same movie.
No one can hear you scream.
Oh, come back for the nextepisode where I rip someone's
head off over my favorite horrormovie franchise.

Ron (01:01:23):
Thank you, guys for taking this trip in a saucer with me.
Uh, uh, thank you on cannibalsout there for listening.
I hope you enjoyed.
Um, until next time, pleasesend us in all of your strange
phenomenon so that we canexplain them and psychoanalyze
you as well.
Uh, thanks, ron, this was superinteresting.
Yeah, appreciate it.
Take care everyone.
Bye-bye, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

(01:01:46):
Hey, Uncannibals.
Sorry, we were having so muchfun pontificating about humanity
and the nature of thesupernatural that we completely
forgot.
We promised to tell you what weall thought about whether or
not aliens have visited theEarth.
We voted and wrote it all down,and then we just left it on the
table.
Yeah, we were like whatever,that's not the most interesting
thing here.
So who wants to go first?

(01:02:07):
We wrote down what we thoughteach of us believed right About
our two questions.

Don (01:02:11):
About the two questions, the first question was do aliens
exist in the universe?
Yes, and the second question ishave aliens visited the?

Doug (01:02:17):
earth.
I believe that both of youthink they exist I definitely
think they exist.

Ron (01:02:23):
I I put down that I I think doug believes they exist,
because he literally told me andI also imagine you go there and
I put down that don does notthink aliens exist because he
was incredibly cryptic andwithholding the entire time oh,
don't let that mistake you, he'sgreat at being secretive do you
notice, I didn't.

Don (01:02:40):
I feel so special, I feel so seen by aliens.
Well, I have to.
Actually I waffle on this so II'm winning this I think, as a
waffler, I think my currentbelief is no, I think that, but
I think that's like within, likethe last month or so what?

Ron (01:02:59):
what happened in the last month to destroy your belief?

Don (01:03:02):
come on man, yeah, where'd the hope go?

Doug (01:03:05):
I was reading an article that no, no, it's not about
articles, it's about fun, soplease but I did put that you
both believe in aliens thank you.

Ron (01:03:15):
Yeah wait, what was this article?

Don (01:03:16):
you can't just leave it there it was about the, the
fermi paradox and themathematics of uh, that the
original calculation for theFermi paradox was was wildly off
and that it's not that unusualthat maybe we are the only ones
in the universe.

Ron (01:03:30):
So I think I always thought the answer to the Fermi paradox
was just the man, the immensedistances, like sort of it
exists and we have estimates thedistance of space Right and so,
but now they're saying thatthat might not be the case.

Don (01:03:42):
And uh.
Underestimates the distance ofspace right and so, but now
they're saying that that mightnot be the case, and uh, and
that maybe it's much moreunlikely that life has uh
existed anywhere else so coolarticle like I'm not like.
I'm not like I'm not waving aflag for it and just like I
don't know.

Doug (01:03:56):
That's boring though yeah, um, in terms of, and then the
next one was UFOs.
We've been visited correct,yeah, it doesn't have to
necessarily be so.
This is what's interesting isnow.
Obviously I don't think you do,but here's what I have for Don.
So on my paper I have ascratched out.
I have Don no, scratched out,like I decided last second.
I was like maybe he does and Isaid yes to both of you.

(01:04:18):
I said yes at the end, but nowI know it's no.

Don (01:04:24):
I think that's a perfect representation of what I just
said, that I waffle between thetwo.

Doug (01:04:28):
So do you feel even more seen?
That's the most accuraterepresentation.

Ron (01:04:33):
I put that Doug does believe we have been visited by
aliens.
Shocker, I put that Don doesnot believe we have been visited
by aliens.

Don (01:04:41):
And I put that Ron does not believe we visited by aliens.
Yeah, and I put that, uh, thatron uh does not believe we've
been visited by aliens, and Iput that doug absolutely
believes it, because dougbelieves that wrestling is real.

Doug (01:04:51):
So he believes everything.
So I definitely didn't say that, folks.
If you go back to the wrestlingepisode, I did explain, kayfabe
so let's just not get ittwisted, but uh yeah, what'd you
say wrong?

Ron (01:05:04):
I, I do not believe aliens have visited us.

Doug (01:05:06):
I think they exist, but I think there are too many
rational explanations for um the, the ufo sightings in general
across the last couple ofdecades and I'd like to clarify,
like I think visitation doesn'tnecessarily mean, because we're
also assuming they visitedpeople and I don't necessarily
think that that would be thecase.
If anything, I think that theywould make an incredibly safe

(01:05:28):
trip.
Not visiting like human beings.
I think if we go back to thezoo theory, if you will, I think
they would look at what we doto each other and go.
I'll take, you know, the mostremote location and go there if
we're going to go anywhere.

Ron (01:05:44):
I don't know.
I feel like if they saw videogames they'd be like okay.

Don (01:05:47):
Oh, space Invaders.
Yeah, look, they like to shootus.
Oh EVE Online.

Doug (01:05:51):
They make corporations in space instead of how fun?
Well, Doom is pretty good.
I know we got to talk aboutDoom in one of these episodes.

Don (01:06:06):
I think that you're right, though, doug and eve, if I
believe that aliens have visitedI.
I'm a a current fan of the zootheory and and I that are like
the prime directive, like ifthey visited they would take
they would take caution to makesure that we don't know that
they visited.

Doug (01:06:14):
Yeah, so okay, okay, okay, boys all right.

Ron (01:06:17):
Thank you everyone.
Uh have a safe and happy restof your day or night Bye, thank
you.