June 4, 2025 • 46 mins
🎧 BONUS EPISODE — This one's different.
At 28, Nathan Hobden walked away from a high-paying city job to chase his own dream — and didn’t stop at just one business.
In this unfiltered conversation, Nathan shares the honest truth about:
- Quitting stability to build something from scratch
- Creating the loyalty platform Kyco for pubs and restaurants
- Working full-time while secretly building the Closr app
- Getting investors through social tennis (yes, really)
- Sacrifice, sleepless nights, and self-belief
- What entrepreneurship really looks like in 2025
This episode isn’t about hype. It’s about doing the work and showing up — even when no one’s clapping.
👊 If you’re thinking of quitting your job or launching your own thing, this is the one you need to hear.
🎯 Follow us on TikTok & Instagram: @UNTOLDPodcast.official
📲 Listen to all episodes here: https://linktr.ee/untoldpodcast.official
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And this episode is for anybody that's looking to go
on an entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I knew what I had created was unique, so I always
believed in the proposition.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
He's 28 years old, left a well-paid job in the city
to start his own business.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'll adjust my work schedule around my lifestyle and
what needs to be done.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Leaving.
Was it a leap of faith or acalculated risk?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Please don't quit your job.
If someone says here's 100 quid, you can make it work.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Is there any point where you thought this is too
much, I can't do this?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Time was the biggest sacrifice Time, with family
events xyz.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Setting deadlines for yourself in business is
imperative.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
There's enough of them around.
It's now about giving the localindependents the upper hand and
competing on a technologystandpoint.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Today's episode is sponsored by Closer, the app
that helps you discoverexclusive local deals right here
in Sussex.
Whether you're after a pint, ahaircut or a last-minute gift,
closer shows you where to go andwhat you can save, all from the
comfort of your phone.
It's free to download, easy touse and packed with offers from
the best spots around.
Download the Closer app todayfrom the App Store.
That's C-L-O-S-R.
(01:15):
Save money, support local withCloser.
Welcome back to the UntoldPodcast.
Today's episode has a slightlydifferent dynamic.
I'm going to interview NathanHobden.
Nathan is a local guy who I'vemet through business, and his
story is quite phenomenal.
He's 28 years old and he left awell-paid job in the city to
start his own business.
Not only that 18 months intohis first business, he decided
(01:38):
to create an app all by himself.
There's thousands of hours goneinto it.
He's a top bloke, and thisepisode is for anybody that's
looking to maybe go on anentrepreneurial journey, to
learn about themselves and tocrack on.
So, without further ado,welcome Nathan to the Untold
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you for having me Absolute pleasure.
How?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
are you doing?
Looking forward?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
to this.
Yeah, very well, thanks, ash,very well, good, good, good so
you used to work in the city, amI right?
Correct.
Yeah, the dreaded city ofLondon for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What was you doing up in the city?
What was your job up?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
there it was SaaS sales, so software as a service.
So this was in relation toemail marketing, website
personalization, essentiallyhelping large enterprise brands
drive more revenues and increasetheir sales.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So how long did you do that for?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Two years in London, prior to that, five years in
Brighton.
So the same sort of spacehelping big brands, you know
work, the likes of BBC Warrior,protein NewsQuest, all sorts of
different businesses, all shapesand sizes, but predominantly
average deal values 30,000 to aquarter of a million.
Yeah, wow, that's incredible.
Different businesses, allshapes and sizes, but
predominantly average dealvalues 30 000 to to a quarter of
a million yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's incredible.
Um, take us back to the day youhanded your notice in for that
job.
What was going through yourmind?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
it's probably one of the greatest days of my life, to
be honest.
Uh, I had a very big bust upwith my boss.
I felt severely mistreated inmy role.
Um, there was a real lack ofrespect from from the business
towards myself.
Uh, from a number of anglespersonal angles, you know, work,
work side of things and, um, itwas such a relief to actually
(03:15):
get out of the workplace.
You know, as daunting as it was.
Going into my own startup world, um, I couldn't be more happy
to to get it off my chest reallywas it leaving?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
was it a leap of faith or a calculated risk?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
it's a calculated risk because, uh, a couple of
months before that I was onleave anyway.
So I sort of dabbled my toe inan idea, uh, with a friend of
mine and uh, we thought I'd giveit a test in two months prior
to handing in my notice.
And uh, with it being a verysmall success, it wasn't good at
all.
It was a very small you knowdip in the ocean, but um, we
(03:50):
thought we'd go with it and runwith it and um, go full leap of
faith into it really what madeyou?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
what made you decide to start something on your own
and not jump from that companyto another one and take that
safety net?
You had seven years ofexperience.
You probably could have justjumped in another job with
another company.
Am I right 100%?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, you know not to be big headed, but there was
job offers on the table everysingle day working in SAS sales.
You know everyone, all of ourcompetitors, were looking for
the next sales person, nextaccount executive, to come in
start driving numbers.
But for me it was more of thework life balance.
You know, traveling to Londonhour and a half each way, three
hours a day, nine hours on site,you know it's ridiculous hours
(04:35):
for doing work for other people.
I think that's what it comesdown to.
It's not for yourself, you knowyou're driving money.
You're making deals for otherpeople.
You're signing, you know, 50000 pound deals.
The business is getting 45 000pound a lap upwards and they've
done zero input.
You know they may provide youthe technology.
However, you're the one findthe deals, you're the one
sourcing it, you're the onedemonstrating it contract
(04:57):
negotiations, proposals.
You're doing the whole salesprocess from start to finish and
you're getting a small fractionof the pie when actually I
wanted to do something formyself on a much smaller scale
and have a better way of life.
You know, if I want to go andplay tennis on a Wednesday, I'll
go and play tennis on aWednesday.
I'll adjust my work schedulearound my lifestyle and what
(05:17):
needs to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And how did the people around you react when you
decided to give up the cushysafety blanket of having a job
to say, right, I've quit my job,I'm going to go out on my own
and do my own thing?
How did people around you react?
Were they supportive, skeptical?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They all thought I was nuts.
They're absolutely nuts.
You know you're leaving awell-paid job in London and take
on a startup that's generatingyou know 300 pound a month
revenue and when it's just yougoing from, you know potentially
six to 10,000 pound a month anddropping that salary down to
300 pound a month, that is a bigdrop in a number of factors.
(05:58):
You know, rent children, familydays out is a big cut on that
and a big sacrifice, and I wentwith an idea that I thought I
could pull it through and afterdescribing it to my friends and
family, they also agreed thatthis could be a good venture.
So once I started runningthrough the figures, the stats
and so on, what the potentialwas, the belief started being
(06:20):
put into me.
Yeah and um, and that's whatstarted making me want to push
on with.
You know I've got peoplesupporting me.
Now I've got to make this work.
It's not only me, it's myfamily at risk.
I've got to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, so where did the idea for Kaiko come from?
What was the, what was the bigdriving point behind it?
What problem did you see thatyou thought you could?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
solve.
So it literally stood over apint, like all good ideas do.
I was at my tennis club,wickwards, and we were having a
pint, me and my friends.
We were discussing one of ourfriends who owns a sports shop
in a hove, nick Rivett Sports,and he had an issue with data.
So, understanding his customers, you know when they were coming
(07:02):
in, what sport do they play,capturing that data, leveraging
it in marketing communicationsand so on and then we built a
prototype which was very, verybasic.
It was literally a plinth witha QR code and a sign saying scan
here.
The customer would walk in,they would scan this plastic
plinth.
They would then complete acustomized form of which the
(07:24):
data would be integrated intohis existing email platform, and
then he could then mine thedata.
So it's something that we callcustomer profiling.
So you know what sport do youplay, is it tennis, is it
running, is it paddle, is itcycling, how often do you do it?
How often do you need yourstrings done?
We start profiling every singleindividual, and that allows him
to send tailored communicationson a one-to-one level,
(07:46):
therefore increasing his sales.
So that's how the idea allstarted.
Down the road, we now have anumber of clients um, I believe
we have around 30 now.
But the funniest thing is, theperson we built it for doesn't
work with us.
So the reason we built it, wedon't work with him but that
that's every single journey,every single idea.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I can imagine there's thousands of entrepreneurs out
there that have had an idea andthey want to run with that idea
and the reason they'resuccessful is because they've
let it run its own course andnot tried to stick with.
No, this is what we want to do.
So then it moved intohospitality, of course yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So with the ability of having your own business, you
you have the flexibility tocustomize it, you know, as
whatever extent you like.
So when I was in london orworking for corporations, it's
very strict.
You know, I think we should dothis.
That then goes to your boss,that then goes to the director,
then we'll put it on the roadmapto be completed in a year's
time.
With kyco, start a startupbusiness.
(08:46):
We're very agile.
An idea could come to the tablefrom a customer or from a staff
member.
We normally implement it in aweek.
Whatever it could be, we find away to do it.
It could be something that comeup, which was subscriptions.
So there's a company calledWoolfox Coffeehouse.
They do a coffee subscriptionclub.
So you pay X amount of moneyper month I think it's around
£40 per month and they gotunlimited coffees.
(09:07):
We never had that.
Customers suggested it to us.
Within two or three weeks weput it live in the platform and
people are using it.
So I think it's the ability tobe agile and adapt to your
technology stack, to eachindividual's use cases.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And try and trial, and try and trial, and trial and
trial and fail and fail andfail, and then one day you throw
enough shit at a wall one daysomething's gonna stick in it.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's exactly it.
And um, that that's really whathappened with our first major
client, or first client of kyco.
Um, there's a pub in hurst pierpoint which people may know
called the horse in um lovelycountry pub.
I met with the owners, tim andlaney, a number of times to
discuss my idea, or prototype,about revolutionizing their pub
(09:50):
and bringing it into, like, themodern, modern century when it
comes to technology.
Yeah, so we basically kitted itout like it was a weatherspoons
or a costa coffee.
Now, a lot of people are againststuff like order to table, so
we didn't fit that.
But what we did install is bitslike Wi-Fi data capture stuff
that you know McDonald's andStarbucks are using QR tags on
the table that allow them, thatallow your customers to view the
(10:12):
menus or follow your socialmedias or download loyalty cards
.
We then installed digitalloyalty cards to Apple wallets
and Google wallets.
You know.
We've then done additionalthings on top of that, and the
list just goes on and on, and weran with the idea.
We put it in place for a numberof months.
We had absolutely no idea if itwould work.
The customer loved it.
(10:33):
They thought it was one of thebest things that's ever happened
to their pub.
We've got only five starreviews about the product and
our services, and the mostimportant thing is that the end
customers loved it and enjoyedit as well.
And then, once you prove theprototype, we're like we've got
something here.
We've got a little package ormarketing suite that we can take
to individual independentbusinesses whether it be pubs,
(10:54):
coffee shops, bars, restaurantsand give them the same
technologies as these highstreet killers, as I call them,
like your Wetherspoons, yourCosta coffees there's enough of
them around.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's now about giving the local independence the
upper hand and competing on atechnology standpoint yeah, yeah
, because data capture is soimportant now I've messaged you
before and said, yeah, I've justbeen to not catch, for example,
yeah, and I can sign into theirwi-fi and they don't ask for
any information from me.
Yeah, now that's worth to abusiness like that.
That's worth, I'd imagine,thousands and thousands of
(11:26):
pounds just not capturing a nameand an email address a hundred
percent.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I mean some great use cases or case studies would be
uh, one client, burger and birdin peace haven.
We've worked them for aroundtwo years now, collected around
3 600 contacts via wi-fi anddata capture.
We now sell out their comedynights and different events they
hold utilizing that data.
So we'd market to it sayingdon't forget, book your comedy
(11:51):
tickets here, insert the emailyou know, put the links in there
.
People were buying through ouremails that we're sending out
and now they're sending outevents and that wouldn't be
possible without the services weput in place.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, so go back now to the first sort of six months
of business.
What were the sacrifices andthings that you had to make in
order for this business to bewhere it is today?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
uh, first thing's time.
Yeah, that is what everyonesays they don't have enough of,
and it's true.
You know, you, I was workingend to end.
You know.
Wake up at nine, finish at 1am.
You know we're not at nine,finish at 1am.
You know we're not talking ninetill nine, we're talking nine
till one, nine till two.
Get seven hours sleep, get backon it.
Whether that be technologydevelopment, shaping the right
package, there was so much trialand error about what will work
(12:36):
for each individual, becauseit's a bespoke platform.
What might work for one pubwon't work for a coffee shop.
So it was defining what thepackage is and how to take it to
the next level essentially.
But time was the biggestsacrifice.
You know whether that be timewith family, time at events.
X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, did you feel?
Was there any point where youthought this is too much, I
can't do this?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Um no, because I knew what I had created was unique.
So I always believed in theproposition.
So, despite the monthly incomesgoing from, you know, 300 to
500 to 700 a month, stillnowhere near a salary.
After that six month to a yearperiod it started getting to the
thousands mark and at thatpoint I'm thinking well, no
(13:21):
one's left us.
We've obviously got some goodproposition here, because people
want it, they're telling theirfriends about it and it's only
ever growing.
So I had faith and the relevant, the right feedback to know
that I could keep pursuing thisdream of mine to become
self-employed and anentrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And by the sounds of it, you believed in yourself and
you believed in what you werebuilding.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
A hundred percent.
If you can't, if you don'tbelieve in yourself, what's the
point?
You know you want others tobelieve in your products and you
, but you have to believe inyourself to make anything
worthwhile.
You have to wake up in themorning, believe you can do it.
Regardless if the things aregoing your way or not, you have
to crush them thoughts and keepon pushing.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
It's tough, though's very tough.
You know it's tough.
There's so many thoughts thatgo in your head thinking is it
worth it?
Do I just go back into this job, this job, xyz?
But no, you know.
You know what you're doing isthe right thing.
You know it's best for your,you know your long-term
well-being and, as I saidearlier, having the ability to
say you know I'm going to takewednesday, thursday, off this
week, I'm going to go playtennis or I'm going to go and do
X, y, z and money.
Money can't buy that, really itreally can't.
You know you're not having tobe dragged into London.
You don't have to be draggedinto your office or being
(14:30):
checked in by a boss.
You know where are you.
I can't get hold of you.
That's the biggest thing for meis not having someone almost
harass you every day going whereare you?
You're not answering your calls, I'm doing this.
That's the biggest thing for meis knowing whatever efforts I
put in, it is all going to be myreward or my family's reward,
etc and freedom.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Freedom.
You say that that's.
That's.
How would you class?
Obviously there's this whole.
You spoke earlier about findinga work-life balance.
This is a big thing and there'sno right or wrong answer, but
what is your take on work lifebalance?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I think for me.
I'm not really the right personto ask on that because I I
essentially don't have anyoutset hours.
You know, I will work nine to aknife needs be.
Some days I'll work throughoutthe whole night.
Some days I'll be up till 5 00am it, all shifts.
So I I would class myself.
I don't have defined hours, youknow, and the beautiful thing
about that is you just tailoryour life around it.
(15:28):
You know, you schedule a day,the next day's working ahead of
it, depending on what you'redoing the night before, and you
just keep building off that.
So for my freedom, it's howevermuch effort and work I want to
put in will then determine whatdays off I can have and when.
Xyz.
So if I so, if I know I want totake Thursday, friday off, I'll
work extra hard on the Tuesday,put my time and efforts in and
then take the next few days off.
(15:49):
Yeah, so freedom is having theability to define your own
calendars and own life.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, it's like they say what's the point in go back?
There must be one moment in thewhole building of kaiko we'll
talk about kaiko in the wholebuilding of kaiko.
There must be one moment thatreally, really sits with you,
(16:16):
ideally a positive moment.
It must be a moment that youremember that you can put
yourself in the place now thatyou were like.
I've done it.
This is amazing.
Can you go back to any of thosemoments?
Is there any that stand out toyou?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
yeah, there is one in particular.
Uh, it was a deal with quite alarge um vape store.
Essentially, I know it's amarket that a lot of people
detest or dislike.
However, it's a big market, youknow there's a lot of money in
it and I spent months and monthsyou know six, there's a lot of
money in it and I spent monthsand months you know six months
(16:52):
trying to get all of thiscontact who owned a number of
vape stores all independent andthe day came where I finally had
the courage to cold call himafter trying to find his number
for ages.
There's a number of people thatare afraid of the telephones and
I think that's the modern day.
People would rather messagerather than pick up the phone,
and that's just how life isthese days.
But picked up the phone, spoketo him, told him the idea.
We put in place a three-monthPOC.
We absolutely crushed it interms of data capture and
(17:14):
development, and then we rolledout Kyco across 12 of his
locations and it was the biggestdeal we've had and probably
going to be the biggest dealwe're going to have in a long,
long time.
And when we landed that deal, Ihad such a massive sense of
pride that someone of this sizehas believed in this project and
they can see the value of itand going from testing it in a
(17:36):
local pub to then rolling outacross essentially the whole of
Sussex in every single locationof theirs was was a real wow
factor for me and my familygoing.
You know you've done it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And it was at that point where I've gone.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You know I've actually done it and you can.
You can take yourself, go, wow,you know you can sit back and
reflect.
I don't think a lot enoughpeople sit back and self reflect
on what their wins are.
A lot of people will sit backand look at the negatives or
what's gone wrong in the day,whereas I was taught at a very
young age to do three wins in aday.
You know what are your threewins of the day.
You say I did this, I did this,I did this.
(18:11):
That's a good day, no matterwhat they are.
Hasn't got to be sales.
It could be.
I've picked up the phone, spoketo this person.
I was afraid of calling.
That is a win because it'ssaying you had negative in your
mind.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, so that's how I based it.
Yeah, that's um, that's prettygood, pretty good.
And I I used to have a verynegative mindset and I would
look at the negatives that havegone on in a day, and then,
obviously, I, I started a newbusiness 18 months ago and after
the first year, I sat back andI spent maybe two or three hours
(18:43):
writing down and reflecting oneverything that I've achieved in
the past year and when you goback on it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
It's phenomenal, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
there are big ones phenomenal, what, what you can
achieve in a year yeah whereaswhen you look forward, you look
to the future and think, oh,it's impossible to do that, I'm
never gonna do that, but yougotta look at where you've come
from you've gotta look at whereyou come from, and not enough
people do that honestly.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I talk to a lot of people in in business around.
You know not only my tennisclub, my social networks.
They all look at like thelittle small negatives and
actually there's much biggerthings that you should be proud
of to then take the businessforward and start propelling.
And business always grows onpositivity, not negativity.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, 100 agree with that.
So if we can talk about this,tell me, tell me no if not.
But you started kyco.
You had an idea.
Obviously these things costmoney.
Did you get investors?
Did you get any investment?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
yeah, we did, um, we got investment via um my social
tennis, my social tennis club,um Wickwoods, um, talking about
sort of networks and where youhang around is some good stories
.
So I watched a podcast a numberof years ago now about a young
man who started a clothingbusiness and he had no money in
his bank.
He decided to join a gym whichwas 250 pounds a month just the
(20:02):
gym and he had no money orresource behind him.
He thought I'm just going togive it a go because of the
people that could be there.
He then joined the gym, startednetworking, gathered a 1
million pound investment fromthe people he was surrounding
himself by other businessmen,entrepreneurs.
Then his business is worthtenfold that.
So I sort of I I found thatafter I've already done what
(20:24):
I've done in my own network.
So being around the rightpeople can really shape your
future and always open doors andopportunities.
So where I play my tennis, um,there's a lot of wealthy
individuals.
I don't join it for the peoplethere particularly.
I join it because I love theplace, I love the environment, I
love the stress-free and peaceof mind of the of the
countryside.
(20:44):
However, the people thereobviously a fantastic bonus and
they often and they are justlovely individuals and without
me being there, I wouldn't havethe chances I've had today or be
where I am today without theiridea sharing the knowledge that
they've gathered over theiryears.
Some businesses businessmen havebeen in, you know, had their
companies for 50 years, and soon.
I'm sadly having a pint.
(21:04):
How did you overcome thisstruggle?
How did you overcome thischallenge?
I'm Over their years.
Some businesses businessmenhave been in, you know, had
their companies for 50 years,and so on.
I'm sadly having a pint.
How did you overcome thisstruggle?
How did you overcome thischallenge?
I'm learning from the expertsevery single day of my life.
I've been there for 10 years,since I was 18 years old, and
I've just learned and learnedfrom these wonderful people and
then put it into my own businessand my own self.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, and I've always said, I've said you're an
average of the 10 people thatyou surround yourself with.
You're always going to be anaverage of the 10 people.
Yeah, if the 10 people you'rehanging around um take to heroin
, chances are you're going totake to heroin.
If you hang surround yourselfwith 10 millionaires, chances
are you're going to bemillionaires, and a lot of
millionaires would say, right,I've done that.
(21:43):
Now I want to hang around withbillionaires because that they
want to elevate that and it'syour circles, exactly.
Your network is your net worth,isn't it?
Especially today?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
and the sad thing is, you know I've lost a lot of
friends.
You know of my age, you know,I'd say, my friendship circle
the average age is 40 years old,you know, and and I have two or
three friends that are of of myage 28 and I lost all my school
friends, childhood friends, etc.
Everyone goes their separateways.
They go to college, university.
I didn't go to either of them,I went straight into the
(22:13):
workforce.
So I think it's also you knowwhat, what surrounds you put
yourself in, like I say, towhere you're going to grow and
develop.
Yeah, um, I just found peoplemy age were very immature,
couldn't really have quite goodconversations with them, and
then I found out I preferredhanging around with the guys
that know what's best really,yeah, yeah, and that have lived
(22:35):
it, that have lived it, they'vebeen there, they've done it,
they've got the experiences andthey can help mould you and
shape you as an individual, andthat to to me, is invaluable.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, oh, a hundred percent.
I would agree with you.
You can sit around a table withpeople that are better than you
, know more than you.
You're only going to getknowledge.
That's why another reason why Iwant to do this podcast because
I've learned a lot from havingconversations.
That's what life's about.
Having conversations, of course, building relationships with
people, yeah.
(23:06):
Do you think that showing up inlife and consistency like
you've been consistent, like yousaid at your tennis club for 10
years do you believe that thatconsistency and showing up sort
of allowed you to mould yourselfand almost create your own luck
, if you like?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, that's an interesting point of discussion.
So I always say I've had luckybreaks in my life, in every
element of it, whereas my dadnonstop says you haven't been
lucky, you put yourself in thesepositions and that's why it's
come about.
Put yourself in these positionsand that's where that's why
it's come about.
So I always try and be very,you know, like sort of looking
(23:50):
back on life.
You know, first job was atCurry's PC world, for example.
18 years old, was there for ayear or two, promoted to
business manager, store manager.
Then I went on to be Applerepresentative in the place.
Then I had someone randomlycome in offer me a job to work
for the times newspaper.
I know absolutely nothing aboutnewspapers.
I just say yes, let's do it.
(24:11):
I then start working in Londonwith the newspaper job, working
for the sun and the timesnewspaper.
Then one day they send me amassive delivery of Yazoo
milkshakes, pallets of it.
I'm like what the hell is this?
They're like you're now sellingYazoo milkshakes whilst you're
visiting the stores selling inthe Sun and Times newspaper.
Fair enough, the amount ofmilkshakes I had I've got.
(24:31):
As you can see, I hate them now.
And then whilst I was doing that, I got offered another job in
email marketing by someone I metin a store in Brighton.
I know nothing about emailmarketing.
I just say, yeah, let's do itand give it a go.
I thought email marketing wasvery boring and laborious and I
knew nothing about behind thescenes technology.
But the amount I've learned inthat space is ridiculous and
(24:55):
it's so fascinating tounderstand the psychology behind
emails, wherever it be theheading, the presentation, the
personalization, the content.
There's so many factors that wedon't think about.
When you receive an inbox, ithits your inbox.
You open it, you read it, youdelete it, you mark it as spam.
But the behind the scenes timeand thought processes from these
marketing wizards is beyondyour imagination.
(25:16):
You know how it looks and feels.
Then I got offered another jobin the email space whilst at an
expo, and I took that job inLondon.
So everything that I've doneI've just said yes to, and I
think that's what's opened allthe doors um, to be where I am
today, which I'm very thankfulfor, and I would always sit back
and say I was lucky, I was inthe right place where I met this
(25:38):
person or I met this person.
Then my dad always shuts medown he says look, you've worked
hard enough that theseopportunities come around and
present themselves to you andyou're the one that's saying yes
to them.
So I'm thankful for him to tryand sort of not ground me,
because I think I'm extremelygrounded because I believe
everything's luck.
But he's saying you know, it'snot luck, you've done it
(25:58):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I've always said that luck is, and this has only
happened the last couple ofyears.
I always said that luck is, andthis has only happened the last
couple of years.
I've always said that luck iswhere preparation meets
opportunity.
Yeah, like you're not going towin a lot if you don't go and
buy a ticket, that's youpreparing.
That's obviously it's a lotdifferent in business, but if
you prepare yourself and if youwanted to be a public speaker,
for example, you've got to beready to be able to speak on
(26:21):
stage and then someone mightcome along and give you the gig
and
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I think that's a big preparation meets opportunity,
equals luck yeah, and also thinkit's your willingness to learn
and take on those new challenges.
You know, if you're gonna sayyes, you've got to be prepared
to put the work in, learn andand my biggest thing in life is
self-development.
I really believe anyone canachieve anything if you try hard
enough.
Whether it's business, sense,fitness, sense, love, life,
(26:48):
whatever, the same can beapplied anywhere.
If you want it, if you want itenough, you can go and get it as
simple as that, If you'rewilling to put in the work and
the grind if you're willing toput in the work, willing to put
in the grind.
You know every single thing.
That every skillset I'velearned, I've that.
Every skill set I've learned,I've self self-taught.
You know whether it be websites, whether it be seo, ppc,
(27:09):
loyalty cards, qr tags that I'velearned everything myself by
utilizing the tools around us.
In the modern day we're so uhlucky to have youtube and tiktok
for stuff like learning.
You know, these people areputting content, our experts in
their field, and they're givingus the thing, the tools we need
to to learn it and be as good asthem.
And if you're willing to go andwatch 10 hours of how to build
(27:31):
a website on youtube, you can goand build websites and then
suddenly guess what.
You have a website business.
You can start sending them in,you can start making money.
So you can make money in thedigital space from any angle, as
long as you're willing to putthe time and effort in and
that's a big thing that I, I Ibelieve self-development is the
biggest skill so you can haveyeah, you've got.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I think everything's got to come from the inside,
everything's got to come fromthe info.
It's like old my good mate,stephen bartlett, said you fill
your knowledge bucket and themore your knowledge bucket fills
, it spills over into otherareas of your life and no no one
can ever take that knowledgeaway from you.
Once you've learned it, you'velearned it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And I think that's quite important.
So that takes me on to the nextcrazy moment in your life where
you decided that you wanted tobuild an app.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
From your bedroom.
Yeah, with very littletechnical experience on building
apps.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, tell us about Closer Deals.
Yeah, so that was an interestingdiscussion with my partner and
my family.
You know I already thought Iwas insane creating one business
and then, when I had the ideaof starting another one I think
my mum had kittens she couldn'tbelieve it.
She's like you haven't even gotthis one exactly where you want
it, let alone starting upanother idea.
(28:44):
But the, the idea of closer um,to sort of tell the public what
closer is.
Closer is a mobile app thatsupports independent businesses.
It helps customers save moneyand it also gives back to
charities.
So it's a winner every singleangle.
It's a really unique project.
It's something that hasn't beendone before.
I've not seen anything elselike this in the world.
(29:07):
So, essentially, businesses canget listed free of charge, such
as a pub or you know yourbusiness yourself.
They have to put an offerwithin the app.
They get free advertisement.
There's no membership fees forbusinesses.
You can literally put an offerin there and then we'll promote
that to all the users aroundSussex.
So right now it's a Sussex basedapp.
It's been out for around fiveweeks, about over a thousand
(29:30):
downloads from the generalpublic, and the general public
can choose to subscribe to theapp if they want to and then
they get access to the exclusiveoffers.
We wanted to make the pricereally low and affordable for
everyone to try and help themsave money as well as go and
support independent businessesrather than go into the big
chains that everyone knows.
So the cost is £1.99.
(29:51):
5% of all profits go to localcharities chosen by the users,
so it's a full 360 applicationto try and help everyone,
everyone.
So rather than people go toPrezzo or Costa coffee, they can
now go to the horse in pub or,you know, buy some beer and go
and get a pint of beer on theoffer, for example, sake.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, so, so, so what sort of?
Obviously we've got an offer onthere for the podcast studio.
You can rent the podcast studioHalf an hour, half an hour
taster session to rent out apodcast studio.
That's an offer that we've puton there.
So what are some of the otheroffers that the members have put
on?
So what can the customer, whatcan the end user gain?
(30:33):
What sort of things?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
There's some outrageous deals.
I mean people may say I'm soundbiased for that, but if you
subscribe at one pound 99 amonth you can go and get 20 off
at james ross in port slade ofgold and silver.
You can go to the tall book pubin cookfield and get 25 off
your main courses monday tothursday.
Yeah, you know, these are bigoffers to try and get people out
(30:56):
and about and try and supportthe local economy again and it's
making a difference.
But coming back to youroriginal question surrounding
what made me do it, it wassurrounding data.
So with Kaiko, we collect dataon behalf of the businesses and
when I look back, we'vecollected something like a
quarter of a million contactsand I'm looking at that going.
Well, none of that of that'smine, none of that I can target.
(31:18):
So how can we start tappinginto this demographic and market
to it?
Essentially so the idea ofCloser came about to try and
capture our own database to thenstart promoting to and trying
to drive our own sales.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, okay.
So how did you go aboutbuilding an app with very little
tech background?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, yeah, there was .
I honestly have zero experiencein building apps, Absolutely
zero.
I, hand on heart, mean thatI've never done it before.
I had no idea how to get an appinto the Apple store or the
Google play store.
I just did endless researchagain on the likes of YouTube
websites and so on, startedtapping into and looking at
(32:02):
going I think I can do this andI started building it.
It took me around six to eightmonths to build the app from
start to finish, but that's inthe background of working with
Kaiko.
So obviously Kaiko be somethinglike nine till five on the days
I'd work and then I'll get home, have dinner and I'd work on
(32:23):
closer seven till 2am 3am everysingle day.
Pretty much for for theduration of six to eight months
to build and release this app.
Um, but I did it again throughself-learning.
I spotted a gap in the marketwhere the likes of Tastecard,
these big corporations that mostpeople know they're supporting
(32:44):
you know, Prezzo, Pizza Express,Cineworld and so on People
don't want to go to those venuesanymore.
They want to start supportinglocal and if they can start
getting the same deals as thesebig high street killers, then
they're going to go and supportthem.
So that's how the idea cameabout and it's sort of it's
community based.
It's community, it's a wholething's community based.
The beautiful thing about it iswhen you download the app, you
(33:05):
can recommend your favoritebusiness that you want us to go
to, so you can say I've got apub around the corner I would
love for them to go onto.
Added, we put a deal in placeand then we hope you like it.
Yeah, it's as simple as that.
So it's full-on community base.
It's a bit like ways orsomething where you pin drop
(33:25):
where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
We'll go and do the work for you, we're going to get
you an offer and then you cango and start benefiting that's
it as well, because I, like, Iknow the tool, but the one you
mentioned, the Talbot 25% offmeals from Monday to Thursday I
mean that's phenomenal.
Yeah, that is a really goodoffer and the Talbot does some
banging food as well.
It's fantastic.
It's really good.
It's a really nice place downthere.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, you go out as a family of four, you're probably
talking 100 quid, so you get£25 off your meal, yeah, and
then it's paid for itself.
Or you go down, james Ross,like I say go buy a bracelet for
1600, get 320 quid off.
(34:06):
Yeah Bang, you've got your next10 years worth.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So, yeah, I mean.
I love the app.
You obviously we've hadconversations from you building
it, naming it, doing all sortsof things, um, and it is a
wicked app.
So, if you're listening to this, download closer off the apple
store, google play and have aplay with it.
If you're not in the sussexarea, it is coming to your area
(34:31):
soon, isn't it?
It is, it is.
It's putting him under pressurenow now I'm working on
expansion.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Every single day.
We're trying to nail Sussexinitially Within the five weeks
of being live.
We've got 150 venues signed up.
You can download the app forfree, you can browse all
locations, you can browse allthe deals and then you can
choose to subscribe or not tosubscribe.
But we've got 150 venues, overa thousand downloads.
The aim is to have 500 venuesby september and 10 000
(34:59):
downloads by the end of the yearand the figures we believe we
can easily achieve.
And then during the next year,so 2026, we're then going to
start scaling out into, you know, kent, surrey, maybe even into
london.
So we have plans to expand itand try and give the end user
maximum.
You, you know, maximum discount?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, no, it is.
It is wicked and I really likeit.
And what Nathan's built, Ididn't think he was going to do
it.
I'm not going to lie, I didn'tthink he was going to do it, but
I mean, we spoke the other dayand it's what?
Did we work out 1600 hours,1600 hours?
Yeah, 1600 hours, 1600 hours.
(35:39):
Yeah, that you've put in on topof working full-time, yeah, um,
which sort of leads me on tothe next question.
There's a lot of talk onlineabout becoming an entrepreneur.
There's people on the internettelling you quit your job.
Here's 100 pounds to go andstart a business, and stuff.
What is your take on that?
What's your take on that?
What's your take onentrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Entrepreneurship for me is having bills come out at
both sides.
You know you're having to payout money and also sort of you
have to bring in money, simpleas that.
So having staff underneath youthat rely on you that, for me,
is the biggest thing.
So we have one full-time memberof staff that works for us with
Kaikoco, knowing that you haveto pay that wage every single
(36:19):
month because their life'sdepending on it.
So you've got people thatbelieve in you throughout the
whole process.
So entrepreneurship for me ishaving idea and having bills
over side, essentially havingthose responsibilities on your
head.
Going to bed every night, goingam I going to be able to afford
that member of staff?
Can I pay him?
Can he pay his rent?
(36:40):
Can he feed his family?
That's all things people don'tthink about, whereas on our
heads we're saying we thinkabout every single day making
sure that everyone's comfortableand everyone's else is okay
before yourself that's the mostimportant thing it's always
before yourself if you're goingto hire someone and take them on
board.
They are the first prioritybefore you take any money out of
the business yeah, and it'shard.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It's hard like I've had months where I'm like I
don't know how am I going to pay.
Am I going to pay the staff'swages this month?
How is it going to work?
And the bigger you scale, thebigger problems, the bigger
those financial responsibilitiesget.
Yeah, it's like having otherchildren, it's like having more
children, having staff 100,because you don't ever want to
see them go without.
Obviously, there's a lot of,there's a lot of big businesses
(37:23):
out there who they pay someonewhat they can get away with
paying them.
Now.
I'm not like that.
I want all the people around meto want to come to work because
the rewards are big enough,whether it's financially,
whether it's that they getholidays, etc.
Etc.
Um, and I think becoming anentrepreneur in 2025 is not as
(37:46):
easy as the influencers make itout to be.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Not at all please don't quit your job if someone
says here's 100 quid, you canmake it work.
Yeah, please don't do that.
It's not.
Yeah, no, it's not, did you not?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Did you have money?
Did you so when you you leftyour job?
Now, obviously we're going intomoney.
I don't really want to put youon a spot, but did you have a
safety blanket?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Not, not, not a big one, not a big one.
There was enough to survive for, say, sort of three months
(38:39):
Logistically.
You know you're not talking alot of money, talking three
months worth of salary.
I had to make it work in threemonths.
If it didn, I might have beenslower, slower, yeah, and and
not been taken as seriousbecause I know I don't matter,
I've got enough money in thebank to survive next month and
the next month and it's allgoing to be all right anyway.
But because I literally hadnafe, you've got three months,
you've got to make this work goall out.
You have to do this.
That's what I think helped themost.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I think as well.
I think I was watchingsomething the other day and
setting deadlines for yourselfin business is imperative, even
if you don't need to setrealistic deadlines that you
will be good for you to achieve.
Don't lapse too much and be toorelaxed about it, because I
(39:19):
always worked for a deadline.
I've always done it through mygcses, and when you had to write
all those essays about macbeth,yeah, I wouldn't get it done
until the last minute, but Iwould get it done because there
was a deadline there.
Of course and it's very similarin business if you set yourself
a realistic goal and arealistic deadline, that's going
to be a struggle to reach, yes,but if you put the hours and
(39:39):
the effort in, you can get there.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
100, yeah, and also planning you know, I've I think
believe it was from one of mycolleagues.
They said planning is key.
You know, without preparationyou're going to fail.
And I had, I've got installedthis idea in my brain where they
put everything into threecategories.
I think I told you before maybe,but if you get an idea, you
write it down.
(40:01):
You put in one of the threecategories like must do, as in
this gets done today, yeah,needs to be done, which is your
sort of two to five day window.
You write in that section andit gets done, and then there's
can be done down the line whichis an idea should be done at
some point, not as essential,but when these ideas come into
your mind, note them down in oneof those three columns and
(40:24):
living life on structure andplanning.
Like that can really help yousort of take the next step in
terms of progression, becausesometimes you get so many ideas
in your mind you don't knowwhere to start, where to finish
and so on, whereas this ideathat I was told in this
principle does work really,really well by setting out your
own structure and your ownplanning what would be your
(40:46):
strongest one piece of advice ifanyone's listening and they're
thinking of quitting their job.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
A gun on an entrepreneurial.
Your one bit of advice that youwish you knew all those years
ago when you decided to jumpship and do it your own way I
would say you know it's a bitstandard, but find a niche but,
more importantly, make it apassive income.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I don't think passive income is discussed enough
between businesses, um, so I'mmaking sure you have money
coming every single month like asubscription.
I think subscription-basedbusinesses are definitely the
way to go.
You know, I've created two withkyco and and closer app, but it
does help with those sort ofsleepless nights because you
know that you don't have to landa particular deal for the money
(41:31):
to come in.
So every single month, you knowwhat money is going to come in,
regardless of if you put zerowork in or if you work every
single day.
If you want zero work in or ifyou work every single day.
If you want to work everysingle day, then yes, that
monthly sum next month willalways increase because you're
going to gather more clients.
However, if you get to acertain size and you want to
take a week or two off or threeweeks off, you know you're going
(41:52):
to get the same amount of moneycoming in anyway, as long as
you're dealing with the support,the support side of things.
So my biggest piece of advicewould be try and find something
of a passive income?
Yeah, um, I think that is isvital in the modern day, with
everything being pretty muchdigital yeah, my business is
completely different.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I can't have a passive income, but there are so
many times I've tried and triedto work out if there's a way
possible.
Yeah, do you know one thingthat I read the other day?
There's a barbers that have nowa subscription.
Yes, there's a mean.
I'd love that.
I would do that every if I knewthat I was paying.
What if I was paying 40 quid amonth to a barber subscription?
(42:29):
And I could go in two, threetimes have my hair cut.
Do you know I'd be there once aweek?
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I'd be there once a week.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, I would go there once a week.
I think that's phenomenal forbarbers.
If you're a barbershoplistening, then get in touch
with Nathan and he can probablyhelp you set all that up.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
We don't have one at the moment, but I'm certain we
can build it.
That's how we can do it.
But it's really funny.
You mentioned haircuts becauseliterally last night or the
night before I was thinkingsingle day, I think, I worked
out.
I pay about 300, about 500 quidfor the year Because my
haircuts aren't a lot.
I think I paid 20 pounds for mylocal hairdressers, but I get
(43:04):
it done once a month, sonormally it gets all frizzy and
absolute mess.
Lucky for you, I thought I'ddress myself up a little bit
today, wearing snow leopardshorts and a black bin bag top.
But yeah, I think 500 pound isthe sum that I'd put on there.
I wake up every day, no matterwhat it's as I want it and it's
done.
So having a subscription wouldbe a really good idea and um a
(43:25):
great idea of a passive income.
A lot of restaurants that we wework with are thinking about
introducing like vip cards, sofor sort of short-term cash
injections, so they couldintroduce a vip black card.
So you pay 40 pound for theyear, you get 10 off every time
you go and visit.
Now for your locals andregulars it's an absolute
(43:45):
blinding deal.
But if you're going to have athousand on your register book
and 100 people are signing up tothat, you know that's a four
grand injection instantly.
So a lot of people are startingto look down that route of vip
passes, vip cards, to get thatcash injection to help their
businesses.
So things like subscriptionsare just getting only ever more
popular, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I know some stories and it's sickening.
It's sickening what people areearning off of charging someone
£5 a month and giving them value.
Yeah, it's mad.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Well, the thing is, we're so used to it.
Now you know the averagehousehold has got Amazon, prime,
Netflix, spotify.
Nearly every single householdhas got those three and you're
talking 30, 40 quid just forthose three alone.
Got your bank account, but youdon't even think about it
because it's a must have.
And having an idea that is amust have will create that
(44:37):
passive income that I believeyou need to to to create.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so, before we wrap this up, what does success
mean to you?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Success means to me living a happy lifestyle, just a
lifestyle that you can wake up,love what you do.
I think loving what you do isthe key part of anything.
What don't do, what you don'tlike, and every day in a wake up
, presenting it, wondering is itworth it thinking about
changing jobs.
You have to do what you loveand I'm very fortunate to fall
into a place where I loveworking with independent
(45:05):
businesses.
They're real people on thefront line and I come into here,
I'm meeting the owner of thebusiness.
I go into a pub, I'm meetingthe landlord.
He's working every day on thefront line.
He knows his business like a,like a ship and his crew.
That's what I love dealing withpeople on the front line,
whereas in the corporate spaceit was sort of dealing with
drones a bit, because you callup people.
(45:27):
I've had 50 emails about thistoday already.
Or are you trying to sell meanother till machine, wi-fi
machine, car machine?
I've got all that.
I don't need ppPC websites andthey're just so sick of the same
thing every single day.
Whereas dealing with the locals, it's so rewarding because you
get pride in it, because you'rehelping them and and two, you
(45:48):
build such solid relationshipswhere, you know, I've been
invited to birthday parties andChristmas parties and all sorts
and all I do is help them on aday-to-day basis of their
technology.
So success for me is doingsomething you love and living a
lifestyle that isn't all aboutwork.
Yeah, easier said than donewhen you have a passive income,
rather than saying, well, youknow if they're going to close a
deal because you've got thepressure of that deal landing,
(46:11):
so, but I believe it's that.
Yeah, that's cool and lastly,has it all been worth it?
A hundred percent, yeah, ahundred percent, yeah.
I love.
I love every single day.
What I do every day isdifferent, um, and I get out of
bed smiling and I think ifyou're, if you're doing that,
you must be onto a winner.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, wicked.
Well, that's been Nathan HobdenReally lovely guy.
Go and check out Closer App.
If you've got a businesshospitality business around the
Sussex area and you don't knowabout Keiko, I strongly advise
you to drop him a line and he'llcome and have a chat with you.
So that's the Untold Podcast.
I've been Ashley, this has beenNathan, and we'll see you on
(46:52):
the next episode.
Thank you.
And this episode is for anybody that's looking to go
on an entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I knew what I had created was unique, so I always
believed in the proposition.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
He's 28 years old, left a well-paid job in the city
to start his own business.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'll adjust my work schedule around my lifestyle and
what needs to be done.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Leaving.
Was it a leap of faith or acalculated risk?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Please don't quit your job.
If someone says here's 100 quid, you can make it work.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Is there any point where you thought this is too
much, I can't do this?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Time was the biggest sacrifice Time, with family
events xyz.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Setting deadlines for yourself in business is
imperative.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
There's enough of them around.
It's now about giving the localindependents the upper hand and
competing on a technologystandpoint.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Today's episode is sponsored by Closer, the app
that helps you discoverexclusive local deals right here
in Sussex.
Whether you're after a pint, ahaircut or a last-minute gift,
closer shows you where to go andwhat you can save, all from the
comfort of your phone.
It's free to download, easy touse and packed with offers from
the best spots around.
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(01:15):
Save money, support local withCloser.
Welcome back to the UntoldPodcast.
Today's episode has a slightlydifferent dynamic.
I'm going to interview NathanHobden.
Nathan is a local guy who I'vemet through business, and his
story is quite phenomenal.
He's 28 years old and he left awell-paid job in the city to
start his own business.
Not only that 18 months intohis first business, he decided
(01:38):
to create an app all by himself.
There's thousands of hours goneinto it.
He's a top bloke, and thisepisode is for anybody that's
looking to maybe go on anentrepreneurial journey, to
learn about themselves and tocrack on.
So, without further ado,welcome Nathan to the Untold
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you for having me Absolute pleasure.
How?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
are you doing?
Looking forward?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
to this.
Yeah, very well, thanks, ash,very well, good, good, good so
you used to work in the city, amI right?
Correct.
Yeah, the dreaded city ofLondon for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What was you doing up in the city?
What was your job up?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
there it was SaaS sales, so software as a service.
So this was in relation toemail marketing, website
personalization, essentiallyhelping large enterprise brands
drive more revenues and increasetheir sales.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So how long did you do that for?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Two years in London, prior to that, five years in
Brighton.
So the same sort of spacehelping big brands, you know
work, the likes of BBC Warrior,protein NewsQuest, all sorts of
different businesses, all shapesand sizes, but predominantly
average deal values 30,000 to aquarter of a million.
Yeah, wow, that's incredible.
Different businesses, allshapes and sizes, but
predominantly average dealvalues 30 000 to to a quarter of
a million yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's incredible.
Um, take us back to the day youhanded your notice in for that
job.
What was going through yourmind?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
it's probably one of the greatest days of my life, to
be honest.
Uh, I had a very big bust upwith my boss.
I felt severely mistreated inmy role.
Um, there was a real lack ofrespect from from the business
towards myself.
Uh, from a number of anglespersonal angles, you know, work,
work side of things and, um, itwas such a relief to actually
(03:15):
get out of the workplace.
You know, as daunting as it was.
Going into my own startup world, um, I couldn't be more happy
to to get it off my chest reallywas it leaving?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
was it a leap of faith or a calculated risk?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
it's a calculated risk because, uh, a couple of
months before that I was onleave anyway.
So I sort of dabbled my toe inan idea, uh, with a friend of
mine and uh, we thought I'd giveit a test in two months prior
to handing in my notice.
And uh, with it being a verysmall success, it wasn't good at
all.
It was a very small you knowdip in the ocean, but um, we
(03:50):
thought we'd go with it and runwith it and um, go full leap of
faith into it really what madeyou?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
what made you decide to start something on your own
and not jump from that companyto another one and take that
safety net?
You had seven years ofexperience.
You probably could have justjumped in another job with
another company.
Am I right 100%?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, you know not to be big headed, but there was
job offers on the table everysingle day working in SAS sales.
You know everyone, all of ourcompetitors, were looking for
the next sales person, nextaccount executive, to come in
start driving numbers.
But for me it was more of thework life balance.
You know, traveling to Londonhour and a half each way, three
hours a day, nine hours on site,you know it's ridiculous hours
(04:35):
for doing work for other people.
I think that's what it comesdown to.
It's not for yourself, you knowyou're driving money.
You're making deals for otherpeople.
You're signing, you know, 50000 pound deals.
The business is getting 45 000pound a lap upwards and they've
done zero input.
You know they may provide youthe technology.
However, you're the one findthe deals, you're the one
sourcing it, you're the onedemonstrating it contract
(04:57):
negotiations, proposals.
You're doing the whole salesprocess from start to finish and
you're getting a small fractionof the pie when actually I
wanted to do something formyself on a much smaller scale
and have a better way of life.
You know, if I want to go andplay tennis on a Wednesday, I'll
go and play tennis on aWednesday.
I'll adjust my work schedulearound my lifestyle and what
(05:17):
needs to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And how did the people around you react when you
decided to give up the cushysafety blanket of having a job
to say, right, I've quit my job,I'm going to go out on my own
and do my own thing?
How did people around you react?
Were they supportive, skeptical?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They all thought I was nuts.
They're absolutely nuts.
You know you're leaving awell-paid job in London and take
on a startup that's generatingyou know 300 pound a month
revenue and when it's just yougoing from, you know potentially
six to 10,000 pound a month anddropping that salary down to
300 pound a month, that is a bigdrop in a number of factors.
(05:58):
You know, rent children, familydays out is a big cut on that
and a big sacrifice, and I wentwith an idea that I thought I
could pull it through and afterdescribing it to my friends and
family, they also agreed thatthis could be a good venture.
So once I started runningthrough the figures, the stats
and so on, what the potentialwas, the belief started being
(06:20):
put into me.
Yeah and um, and that's whatstarted making me want to push
on with.
You know I've got peoplesupporting me.
Now I've got to make this work.
It's not only me, it's myfamily at risk.
I've got to do it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, so where did the idea for Kaiko come from?
What was the, what was the bigdriving point behind it?
What problem did you see thatyou thought you could?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
solve.
So it literally stood over apint, like all good ideas do.
I was at my tennis club,wickwards, and we were having a
pint, me and my friends.
We were discussing one of ourfriends who owns a sports shop
in a hove, nick Rivett Sports,and he had an issue with data.
So, understanding his customers, you know when they were coming
(07:02):
in, what sport do they play,capturing that data, leveraging
it in marketing communicationsand so on and then we built a
prototype which was very, verybasic.
It was literally a plinth witha QR code and a sign saying scan
here.
The customer would walk in,they would scan this plastic
plinth.
They would then complete acustomized form of which the
(07:24):
data would be integrated intohis existing email platform, and
then he could then mine thedata.
So it's something that we callcustomer profiling.
So you know what sport do youplay, is it tennis, is it
running, is it paddle, is itcycling, how often do you do it?
How often do you need yourstrings done?
We start profiling every singleindividual, and that allows him
to send tailored communicationson a one-to-one level,
(07:46):
therefore increasing his sales.
So that's how the idea allstarted.
Down the road, we now have anumber of clients um, I believe
we have around 30 now.
But the funniest thing is, theperson we built it for doesn't
work with us.
So the reason we built it, wedon't work with him but that
that's every single journey,every single idea.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I can imagine there's thousands of entrepreneurs out
there that have had an idea andthey want to run with that idea
and the reason they'resuccessful is because they've
let it run its own course andnot tried to stick with.
No, this is what we want to do.
So then it moved intohospitality, of course yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So with the ability of having your own business, you
you have the flexibility tocustomize it, you know, as
whatever extent you like.
So when I was in london orworking for corporations, it's
very strict.
You know, I think we should dothis.
That then goes to your boss,that then goes to the director,
then we'll put it on the roadmapto be completed in a year's
time.
With kyco, start a startupbusiness.
(08:46):
We're very agile.
An idea could come to the tablefrom a customer or from a staff
member.
We normally implement it in aweek.
Whatever it could be, we find away to do it.
It could be something that comeup, which was subscriptions.
So there's a company calledWoolfox Coffeehouse.
They do a coffee subscriptionclub.
So you pay X amount of moneyper month I think it's around
£40 per month and they gotunlimited coffees.
(09:07):
We never had that.
Customers suggested it to us.
Within two or three weeks weput it live in the platform and
people are using it.
So I think it's the ability tobe agile and adapt to your
technology stack, to eachindividual's use cases.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And try and trial, and try and trial, and trial and
trial and fail and fail andfail, and then one day you throw
enough shit at a wall one daysomething's gonna stick in it.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's exactly it.
And um, that that's really whathappened with our first major
client, or first client of kyco.
Um, there's a pub in hurst pierpoint which people may know
called the horse in um lovelycountry pub.
I met with the owners, tim andlaney, a number of times to
discuss my idea, or prototype,about revolutionizing their pub
(09:50):
and bringing it into, like, themodern, modern century when it
comes to technology.
Yeah, so we basically kitted itout like it was a weatherspoons
or a costa coffee.
Now, a lot of people are againststuff like order to table, so
we didn't fit that.
But what we did install is bitslike Wi-Fi data capture stuff
that you know McDonald's andStarbucks are using QR tags on
the table that allow them, thatallow your customers to view the
(10:12):
menus or follow your socialmedias or download loyalty cards
.
We then installed digitalloyalty cards to Apple wallets
and Google wallets.
You know.
We've then done additionalthings on top of that, and the
list just goes on and on, and weran with the idea.
We put it in place for a numberof months.
We had absolutely no idea if itwould work.
The customer loved it.
(10:33):
They thought it was one of thebest things that's ever happened
to their pub.
We've got only five starreviews about the product and
our services, and the mostimportant thing is that the end
customers loved it and enjoyedit as well.
And then, once you prove theprototype, we're like we've got
something here.
We've got a little package ormarketing suite that we can take
to individual independentbusinesses whether it be pubs,
(10:54):
coffee shops, bars, restaurantsand give them the same
technologies as these highstreet killers, as I call them,
like your Wetherspoons, yourCosta coffees there's enough of
them around.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's now about giving the local independence the
upper hand and competing on atechnology standpoint yeah, yeah
, because data capture is soimportant now I've messaged you
before and said, yeah, I've justbeen to not catch, for example,
yeah, and I can sign into theirwi-fi and they don't ask for
any information from me.
Yeah, now that's worth to abusiness like that.
That's worth, I'd imagine,thousands and thousands of
(11:26):
pounds just not capturing a nameand an email address a hundred
percent.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I mean some great use cases or case studies would be
uh, one client, burger and birdin peace haven.
We've worked them for aroundtwo years now, collected around
3 600 contacts via wi-fi anddata capture.
We now sell out their comedynights and different events they
hold utilizing that data.
So we'd market to it sayingdon't forget, book your comedy
(11:51):
tickets here, insert the emailyou know, put the links in there
.
People were buying through ouremails that we're sending out
and now they're sending outevents and that wouldn't be
possible without the services weput in place.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, so go back now to the first sort of six months
of business.
What were the sacrifices andthings that you had to make in
order for this business to bewhere it is today?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
uh, first thing's time.
Yeah, that is what everyonesays they don't have enough of,
and it's true.
You know, you, I was workingend to end.
You know.
Wake up at nine, finish at 1am.
You know we're not at nine,finish at 1am.
You know we're not talking ninetill nine, we're talking nine
till one, nine till two.
Get seven hours sleep, get backon it.
Whether that be technologydevelopment, shaping the right
package, there was so much trialand error about what will work
(12:36):
for each individual, becauseit's a bespoke platform.
What might work for one pubwon't work for a coffee shop.
So it was defining what thepackage is and how to take it to
the next level essentially.
But time was the biggestsacrifice.
You know whether that be timewith family, time at events.
X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, did you feel?
Was there any point where youthought this is too much, I
can't do this?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Um no, because I knew what I had created was unique.
So I always believed in theproposition.
So, despite the monthly incomesgoing from, you know, 300 to
500 to 700 a month, stillnowhere near a salary.
After that six month to a yearperiod it started getting to the
thousands mark and at thatpoint I'm thinking well, no
(13:21):
one's left us.
We've obviously got some goodproposition here, because people
want it, they're telling theirfriends about it and it's only
ever growing.
So I had faith and the relevant, the right feedback to know
that I could keep pursuing thisdream of mine to become
self-employed and anentrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And by the sounds of it, you believed in yourself and
you believed in what you werebuilding.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
A hundred percent.
If you can't, if you don'tbelieve in yourself, what's the
point?
You know you want others tobelieve in your products and you
, but you have to believe inyourself to make anything
worthwhile.
You have to wake up in themorning, believe you can do it.
Regardless if the things aregoing your way or not, you have
to crush them thoughts and keepon pushing.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
It's tough, though's very tough.
You know it's tough.
There's so many thoughts thatgo in your head thinking is it
worth it?
Do I just go back into this job, this job, xyz?
But no, you know.
You know what you're doing isthe right thing.
You know it's best for your,you know your long-term
well-being and, as I saidearlier, having the ability to
say you know I'm going to takewednesday, thursday, off this
week, I'm going to go playtennis or I'm going to go and do
X, y, z and money.
Money can't buy that, really itreally can't.
You know you're not having tobe dragged into London.
You don't have to be draggedinto your office or being
(14:30):
checked in by a boss.
You know where are you.
I can't get hold of you.
That's the biggest thing for meis not having someone almost
harass you every day going whereare you?
You're not answering your calls, I'm doing this.
That's the biggest thing for meis knowing whatever efforts I
put in, it is all going to be myreward or my family's reward,
etc and freedom.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Freedom.
You say that that's.
That's.
How would you class?
Obviously there's this whole.
You spoke earlier about findinga work-life balance.
This is a big thing and there'sno right or wrong answer, but
what is your take on work lifebalance?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I think for me.
I'm not really the right personto ask on that because I I
essentially don't have anyoutset hours.
You know, I will work nine to aknife needs be.
Some days I'll work throughoutthe whole night.
Some days I'll be up till 5 00am it, all shifts.
So I I would class myself.
I don't have defined hours, youknow, and the beautiful thing
about that is you just tailoryour life around it.
(15:28):
You know, you schedule a day,the next day's working ahead of
it, depending on what you'redoing the night before, and you
just keep building off that.
So for my freedom, it's howevermuch effort and work I want to
put in will then determine whatdays off I can have and when.
Xyz.
So if I so, if I know I want totake Thursday, friday off, I'll
work extra hard on the Tuesday,put my time and efforts in and
then take the next few days off.
(15:49):
Yeah, so freedom is having theability to define your own
calendars and own life.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, it's like they say what's the point in go back?
There must be one moment in thewhole building of kaiko we'll
talk about kaiko in the wholebuilding of kaiko.
There must be one moment thatreally, really sits with you,
(16:16):
ideally a positive moment.
It must be a moment that youremember that you can put
yourself in the place now thatyou were like.
I've done it.
This is amazing.
Can you go back to any of thosemoments?
Is there any that stand out toyou?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
yeah, there is one in particular.
Uh, it was a deal with quite alarge um vape store.
Essentially, I know it's amarket that a lot of people
detest or dislike.
However, it's a big market, youknow there's a lot of money in
it and I spent months and monthsyou know six, there's a lot of
money in it and I spent monthsand months you know six months
(16:52):
trying to get all of thiscontact who owned a number of
vape stores all independent andthe day came where I finally had
the courage to cold call himafter trying to find his number
for ages.
There's a number of people thatare afraid of the telephones and
I think that's the modern day.
People would rather messagerather than pick up the phone,
and that's just how life isthese days.
But picked up the phone, spoketo him, told him the idea.
We put in place a three-monthPOC.
We absolutely crushed it interms of data capture and
(17:14):
development, and then we rolledout Kyco across 12 of his
locations and it was the biggestdeal we've had and probably
going to be the biggest dealwe're going to have in a long,
long time.
And when we landed that deal, Ihad such a massive sense of
pride that someone of this sizehas believed in this project and
they can see the value of itand going from testing it in a
(17:36):
local pub to then rolling outacross essentially the whole of
Sussex in every single locationof theirs was was a real wow
factor for me and my familygoing.
You know you've done it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And it was at that point where I've gone.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You know I've actually done it and you can.
You can take yourself, go, wow,you know you can sit back and
reflect.
I don't think a lot enoughpeople sit back and self reflect
on what their wins are.
A lot of people will sit backand look at the negatives or
what's gone wrong in the day,whereas I was taught at a very
young age to do three wins in aday.
You know what are your threewins of the day.
You say I did this, I did this,I did this.
(18:11):
That's a good day, no matterwhat they are.
Hasn't got to be sales.
It could be.
I've picked up the phone, spoketo this person.
I was afraid of calling.
That is a win because it'ssaying you had negative in your
mind.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, so that's how I based it.
Yeah, that's um, that's prettygood, pretty good.
And I I used to have a verynegative mindset and I would
look at the negatives that havegone on in a day, and then,
obviously, I, I started a newbusiness 18 months ago and after
the first year, I sat back andI spent maybe two or three hours
(18:43):
writing down and reflecting oneverything that I've achieved in
the past year and when you goback on it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
It's phenomenal, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
there are big ones phenomenal, what, what you can
achieve in a year yeah whereaswhen you look forward, you look
to the future and think, oh,it's impossible to do that, I'm
never gonna do that, but yougotta look at where you've come
from you've gotta look at whereyou come from, and not enough
people do that honestly.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I talk to a lot of people in in business around.
You know not only my tennisclub, my social networks.
They all look at like thelittle small negatives and
actually there's much biggerthings that you should be proud
of to then take the businessforward and start propelling.
And business always grows onpositivity, not negativity.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, 100 agree with that.
So if we can talk about this,tell me, tell me no if not.
But you started kyco.
You had an idea.
Obviously these things costmoney.
Did you get investors?
Did you get any investment?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
yeah, we did, um, we got investment via um my social
tennis, my social tennis club,um Wickwoods, um, talking about
sort of networks and where youhang around is some good stories
.
So I watched a podcast a numberof years ago now about a young
man who started a clothingbusiness and he had no money in
his bank.
He decided to join a gym whichwas 250 pounds a month just the
(20:02):
gym and he had no money orresource behind him.
He thought I'm just going togive it a go because of the
people that could be there.
He then joined the gym, startednetworking, gathered a 1
million pound investment fromthe people he was surrounding
himself by other businessmen,entrepreneurs.
Then his business is worthtenfold that.
So I sort of I I found thatafter I've already done what
(20:24):
I've done in my own network.
So being around the rightpeople can really shape your
future and always open doors andopportunities.
So where I play my tennis, um,there's a lot of wealthy
individuals.
I don't join it for the peoplethere particularly.
I join it because I love theplace, I love the environment, I
love the stress-free and peaceof mind of the of the
countryside.
(20:44):
However, the people thereobviously a fantastic bonus and
they often and they are justlovely individuals and without
me being there, I wouldn't havethe chances I've had today or be
where I am today without theiridea sharing the knowledge that
they've gathered over theiryears.
Some businesses businessmen havebeen in, you know, had their
companies for 50 years, and soon.
I'm sadly having a pint.
(21:04):
How did you overcome thisstruggle?
How did you overcome thischallenge?
I'm Over their years.
Some businesses businessmenhave been in, you know, had
their companies for 50 years,and so on.
I'm sadly having a pint.
How did you overcome thisstruggle?
How did you overcome thischallenge?
I'm learning from the expertsevery single day of my life.
I've been there for 10 years,since I was 18 years old, and
I've just learned and learnedfrom these wonderful people and
then put it into my own businessand my own self.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, and I've always said, I've said you're an
average of the 10 people thatyou surround yourself with.
You're always going to be anaverage of the 10 people.
Yeah, if the 10 people you'rehanging around um take to heroin
, chances are you're going totake to heroin.
If you hang surround yourselfwith 10 millionaires, chances
are you're going to bemillionaires, and a lot of
millionaires would say, right,I've done that.
(21:43):
Now I want to hang around withbillionaires because that they
want to elevate that and it'syour circles, exactly.
Your network is your net worth,isn't it?
Especially today?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
and the sad thing is, you know I've lost a lot of
friends.
You know of my age, you know,I'd say, my friendship circle
the average age is 40 years old,you know, and and I have two or
three friends that are of of myage 28 and I lost all my school
friends, childhood friends, etc.
Everyone goes their separateways.
They go to college, university.
I didn't go to either of them,I went straight into the
(22:13):
workforce.
So I think it's also you knowwhat, what surrounds you put
yourself in, like I say, towhere you're going to grow and
develop.
Yeah, um, I just found peoplemy age were very immature,
couldn't really have quite goodconversations with them, and
then I found out I preferredhanging around with the guys
that know what's best really,yeah, yeah, and that have lived
(22:35):
it, that have lived it, they'vebeen there, they've done it,
they've got the experiences andthey can help mould you and
shape you as an individual, andthat to to me, is invaluable.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, oh, a hundred percent.
I would agree with you.
You can sit around a table withpeople that are better than you
, know more than you.
You're only going to getknowledge.
That's why another reason why Iwant to do this podcast because
I've learned a lot from havingconversations.
That's what life's about.
Having conversations, of course, building relationships with
people, yeah.
(23:06):
Do you think that showing up inlife and consistency like
you've been consistent, like yousaid at your tennis club for 10
years do you believe that thatconsistency and showing up sort
of allowed you to mould yourselfand almost create your own luck
, if you like?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, that's an interesting point of discussion.
So I always say I've had luckybreaks in my life, in every
element of it, whereas my dadnonstop says you haven't been
lucky, you put yourself in thesepositions and that's why it's
come about.
Put yourself in these positionsand that's where that's why
it's come about.
So I always try and be very,you know, like sort of looking
(23:50):
back on life.
You know, first job was atCurry's PC world, for example.
18 years old, was there for ayear or two, promoted to
business manager, store manager.
Then I went on to be Applerepresentative in the place.
Then I had someone randomlycome in offer me a job to work
for the times newspaper.
I know absolutely nothing aboutnewspapers.
I just say yes, let's do it.
(24:11):
I then start working in Londonwith the newspaper job, working
for the sun and the timesnewspaper.
Then one day they send me amassive delivery of Yazoo
milkshakes, pallets of it.
I'm like what the hell is this?
They're like you're now sellingYazoo milkshakes whilst you're
visiting the stores selling inthe Sun and Times newspaper.
Fair enough, the amount ofmilkshakes I had I've got.
(24:31):
As you can see, I hate them now.
And then whilst I was doing that, I got offered another job in
email marketing by someone I metin a store in Brighton.
I know nothing about emailmarketing.
I just say, yeah, let's do itand give it a go.
I thought email marketing wasvery boring and laborious and I
knew nothing about behind thescenes technology.
But the amount I've learned inthat space is ridiculous and
(24:55):
it's so fascinating tounderstand the psychology behind
emails, wherever it be theheading, the presentation, the
personalization, the content.
There's so many factors that wedon't think about.
When you receive an inbox, ithits your inbox.
You open it, you read it, youdelete it, you mark it as spam.
But the behind the scenes timeand thought processes from these
marketing wizards is beyondyour imagination.
(25:16):
You know how it looks and feels.
Then I got offered another jobin the email space whilst at an
expo, and I took that job inLondon.
So everything that I've doneI've just said yes to, and I
think that's what's opened allthe doors um, to be where I am
today, which I'm very thankfulfor, and I would always sit back
and say I was lucky, I was inthe right place where I met this
(25:38):
person or I met this person.
Then my dad always shuts medown he says look, you've worked
hard enough that theseopportunities come around and
present themselves to you andyou're the one that's saying yes
to them.
So I'm thankful for him to tryand sort of not ground me,
because I think I'm extremelygrounded because I believe
everything's luck.
But he's saying you know, it'snot luck, you've done it
(25:58):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I've always said that luck is, and this has only
happened the last couple ofyears.
I always said that luck is, andthis has only happened the last
couple of years.
I've always said that luck iswhere preparation meets
opportunity.
Yeah, like you're not going towin a lot if you don't go and
buy a ticket, that's youpreparing.
That's obviously it's a lotdifferent in business, but if
you prepare yourself and if youwanted to be a public speaker,
for example, you've got to beready to be able to speak on
(26:21):
stage and then someone mightcome along and give you the gig
and
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I think that's a big preparation meets opportunity,
equals luck yeah, and also thinkit's your willingness to learn
and take on those new challenges.
You know, if you're gonna sayyes, you've got to be prepared
to put the work in, learn andand my biggest thing in life is
self-development.
I really believe anyone canachieve anything if you try hard
enough.
Whether it's business, sense,fitness, sense, love, life,
(26:48):
whatever, the same can beapplied anywhere.
If you want it, if you want itenough, you can go and get it as
simple as that, If you'rewilling to put in the work and
the grind if you're willing toput in the work, willing to put
in the grind.
You know every single thing.
That every skillset I'velearned, I've that.
Every skill set I've learned,I've self self-taught.
You know whether it be websites, whether it be seo, ppc,
(27:09):
loyalty cards, qr tags that I'velearned everything myself by
utilizing the tools around us.
In the modern day we're so uhlucky to have youtube and tiktok
for stuff like learning.
You know, these people areputting content, our experts in
their field, and they're givingus the thing, the tools we need
to to learn it and be as good asthem.
And if you're willing to go andwatch 10 hours of how to build
(27:31):
a website on youtube, you can goand build websites and then
suddenly guess what.
You have a website business.
You can start sending them in,you can start making money.
So you can make money in thedigital space from any angle, as
long as you're willing to putthe time and effort in and
that's a big thing that I, I Ibelieve self-development is the
biggest skill so you can haveyeah, you've got.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I think everything's got to come from the inside,
everything's got to come fromthe info.
It's like old my good mate,stephen bartlett, said you fill
your knowledge bucket and themore your knowledge bucket fills
, it spills over into otherareas of your life and no no one
can ever take that knowledgeaway from you.
Once you've learned it, you'velearned it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And I think that's quite important.
So that takes me on to the nextcrazy moment in your life where
you decided that you wanted tobuild an app.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
From your bedroom.
Yeah, with very littletechnical experience on building
apps.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, tell us about Closer Deals.
Yeah, so that was an interestingdiscussion with my partner and
my family.
You know I already thought Iwas insane creating one business
and then, when I had the ideaof starting another one I think
my mum had kittens she couldn'tbelieve it.
She's like you haven't even gotthis one exactly where you want
it, let alone starting upanother idea.
(28:44):
But the, the idea of closer um,to sort of tell the public what
closer is.
Closer is a mobile app thatsupports independent businesses.
It helps customers save moneyand it also gives back to
charities.
So it's a winner every singleangle.
It's a really unique project.
It's something that hasn't beendone before.
I've not seen anything elselike this in the world.
(29:07):
So, essentially, businesses canget listed free of charge, such
as a pub or you know yourbusiness yourself.
They have to put an offerwithin the app.
They get free advertisement.
There's no membership fees forbusinesses.
You can literally put an offerin there and then we'll promote
that to all the users aroundSussex.
So right now it's a Sussex basedapp.
It's been out for around fiveweeks, about over a thousand
(29:30):
downloads from the generalpublic, and the general public
can choose to subscribe to theapp if they want to and then
they get access to the exclusiveoffers.
We wanted to make the pricereally low and affordable for
everyone to try and help themsave money as well as go and
support independent businessesrather than go into the big
chains that everyone knows.
So the cost is £1.99.
(29:51):
5% of all profits go to localcharities chosen by the users,
so it's a full 360 applicationto try and help everyone,
everyone.
So rather than people go toPrezzo or Costa coffee, they can
now go to the horse in pub or,you know, buy some beer and go
and get a pint of beer on theoffer, for example, sake.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, so, so, so what sort of?
Obviously we've got an offer onthere for the podcast studio.
You can rent the podcast studioHalf an hour, half an hour
taster session to rent out apodcast studio.
That's an offer that we've puton there.
So what are some of the otheroffers that the members have put
on?
So what can the customer, whatcan the end user gain?
(30:33):
What sort of things?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
There's some outrageous deals.
I mean people may say I'm soundbiased for that, but if you
subscribe at one pound 99 amonth you can go and get 20 off
at james ross in port slade ofgold and silver.
You can go to the tall book pubin cookfield and get 25 off
your main courses monday tothursday.
Yeah, you know, these are bigoffers to try and get people out
(30:56):
and about and try and supportthe local economy again and it's
making a difference.
But coming back to youroriginal question surrounding
what made me do it, it wassurrounding data.
So with Kaiko, we collect dataon behalf of the businesses and
when I look back, we'vecollected something like a
quarter of a million contactsand I'm looking at that going.
Well, none of that of that'smine, none of that I can target.
(31:18):
So how can we start tappinginto this demographic and market
to it?
Essentially so the idea ofCloser came about to try and
capture our own database to thenstart promoting to and trying
to drive our own sales.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, okay.
So how did you go aboutbuilding an app with very little
tech background?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, yeah, there was .
I honestly have zero experiencein building apps, Absolutely
zero.
I, hand on heart, mean thatI've never done it before.
I had no idea how to get an appinto the Apple store or the
Google play store.
I just did endless researchagain on the likes of YouTube
websites and so on, startedtapping into and looking at
(32:02):
going I think I can do this andI started building it.
It took me around six to eightmonths to build the app from
start to finish, but that's inthe background of working with
Kaiko.
So obviously Kaiko be somethinglike nine till five on the days
I'd work and then I'll get home, have dinner and I'd work on
(32:23):
closer seven till 2am 3am everysingle day.
Pretty much for for theduration of six to eight months
to build and release this app.
Um, but I did it again throughself-learning.
I spotted a gap in the marketwhere the likes of Tastecard,
these big corporations that mostpeople know they're supporting
(32:44):
you know, Prezzo, Pizza Express,Cineworld and so on People
don't want to go to those venuesanymore.
They want to start supportinglocal and if they can start
getting the same deals as thesebig high street killers, then
they're going to go and supportthem.
So that's how the idea cameabout and it's sort of it's
community based.
It's community, it's a wholething's community based.
The beautiful thing about it iswhen you download the app, you
(33:05):
can recommend your favoritebusiness that you want us to go
to, so you can say I've got apub around the corner I would
love for them to go onto.
Added, we put a deal in placeand then we hope you like it.
Yeah, it's as simple as that.
So it's full-on community base.
It's a bit like ways orsomething where you pin drop
(33:25):
where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
We'll go and do the work for you, we're going to get
you an offer and then you cango and start benefiting that's
it as well, because I, like, Iknow the tool, but the one you
mentioned, the Talbot 25% offmeals from Monday to Thursday I
mean that's phenomenal.
Yeah, that is a really goodoffer and the Talbot does some
banging food as well.
It's fantastic.
It's really good.
It's a really nice place downthere.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, you go out as a family of four, you're probably
talking 100 quid, so you get£25 off your meal, yeah, and
then it's paid for itself.
Or you go down, james Ross,like I say go buy a bracelet for
1600, get 320 quid off.
(34:06):
Yeah Bang, you've got your next10 years worth.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So, yeah, I mean.
I love the app.
You obviously we've hadconversations from you building
it, naming it, doing all sortsof things, um, and it is a
wicked app.
So, if you're listening to this, download closer off the apple
store, google play and have aplay with it.
If you're not in the sussexarea, it is coming to your area
(34:31):
soon, isn't it?
It is, it is.
It's putting him under pressurenow now I'm working on
expansion.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Every single day.
We're trying to nail Sussexinitially Within the five weeks
of being live.
We've got 150 venues signed up.
You can download the app forfree, you can browse all
locations, you can browse allthe deals and then you can
choose to subscribe or not tosubscribe.
But we've got 150 venues, overa thousand downloads.
The aim is to have 500 venuesby september and 10 000
(34:59):
downloads by the end of the yearand the figures we believe we
can easily achieve.
And then during the next year,so 2026, we're then going to
start scaling out into, you know, kent, surrey, maybe even into
london.
So we have plans to expand itand try and give the end user
maximum.
You, you know, maximum discount?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, no, it is.
It is wicked and I really likeit.
And what Nathan's built, Ididn't think he was going to do
it.
I'm not going to lie, I didn'tthink he was going to do it, but
I mean, we spoke the other dayand it's what?
Did we work out 1600 hours,1600 hours?
Yeah, 1600 hours, 1600 hours.
(35:39):
Yeah, that you've put in on topof working full-time, yeah, um,
which sort of leads me on tothe next question.
There's a lot of talk onlineabout becoming an entrepreneur.
There's people on the internettelling you quit your job.
Here's 100 pounds to go andstart a business, and stuff.
What is your take on that?
What's your take on that?
What's your take onentrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Entrepreneurship for me is having bills come out at
both sides.
You know you're having to payout money and also sort of you
have to bring in money, simpleas that.
So having staff underneath youthat rely on you that, for me,
is the biggest thing.
So we have one full-time memberof staff that works for us with
Kaikoco, knowing that you haveto pay that wage every single
(36:19):
month because their life'sdepending on it.
So you've got people thatbelieve in you throughout the
whole process.
So entrepreneurship for me ishaving idea and having bills
over side, essentially havingthose responsibilities on your
head.
Going to bed every night, goingam I going to be able to afford
that member of staff?
Can I pay him?
Can he pay his rent?
(36:40):
Can he feed his family?
That's all things people don'tthink about, whereas on our
heads we're saying we thinkabout every single day making
sure that everyone's comfortableand everyone's else is okay
before yourself that's the mostimportant thing it's always
before yourself if you're goingto hire someone and take them on
board.
They are the first prioritybefore you take any money out of
the business yeah, and it'shard.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It's hard like I've had months where I'm like I
don't know how am I going to pay.
Am I going to pay the staff'swages this month?
How is it going to work?
And the bigger you scale, thebigger problems, the bigger
those financial responsibilitiesget.
Yeah, it's like having otherchildren, it's like having more
children, having staff 100,because you don't ever want to
see them go without.
Obviously, there's a lot of,there's a lot of big businesses
(37:23):
out there who they pay someonewhat they can get away with
paying them.
Now.
I'm not like that.
I want all the people around meto want to come to work because
the rewards are big enough,whether it's financially,
whether it's that they getholidays, etc.
Etc.
Um, and I think becoming anentrepreneur in 2025 is not as
(37:46):
easy as the influencers make itout to be.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Not at all please don't quit your job if someone
says here's 100 quid, you canmake it work.
Yeah, please don't do that.
It's not.
Yeah, no, it's not, did you not?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Did you have money?
Did you so when you you leftyour job?
Now, obviously we're going intomoney.
I don't really want to put youon a spot, but did you have a
safety blanket?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Not, not, not a big one, not a big one.
There was enough to survive for, say, sort of three months
(38:39):
Logistically.
You know you're not talking alot of money, talking three
months worth of salary.
I had to make it work in threemonths.
If it didn, I might have beenslower, slower, yeah, and and
not been taken as seriousbecause I know I don't matter,
I've got enough money in thebank to survive next month and
the next month and it's allgoing to be all right anyway.
But because I literally hadnafe, you've got three months,
you've got to make this work goall out.
You have to do this.
That's what I think helped themost.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I think as well.
I think I was watchingsomething the other day and
setting deadlines for yourselfin business is imperative, even
if you don't need to setrealistic deadlines that you
will be good for you to achieve.
Don't lapse too much and be toorelaxed about it, because I
(39:19):
always worked for a deadline.
I've always done it through mygcses, and when you had to write
all those essays about macbeth,yeah, I wouldn't get it done
until the last minute, but Iwould get it done because there
was a deadline there.
Of course and it's very similarin business if you set yourself
a realistic goal and arealistic deadline, that's going
to be a struggle to reach, yes,but if you put the hours and
(39:39):
the effort in, you can get there.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
100, yeah, and also planning you know, I've I think
believe it was from one of mycolleagues.
They said planning is key.
You know, without preparationyou're going to fail.
And I had, I've got installedthis idea in my brain where they
put everything into threecategories.
I think I told you before maybe,but if you get an idea, you
write it down.
(40:01):
You put in one of the threecategories like must do, as in
this gets done today, yeah,needs to be done, which is your
sort of two to five day window.
You write in that section andit gets done, and then there's
can be done down the line whichis an idea should be done at
some point, not as essential,but when these ideas come into
your mind, note them down in oneof those three columns and
(40:24):
living life on structure andplanning.
Like that can really help yousort of take the next step in
terms of progression, becausesometimes you get so many ideas
in your mind you don't knowwhere to start, where to finish
and so on, whereas this ideathat I was told in this
principle does work really,really well by setting out your
own structure and your ownplanning what would be your
(40:46):
strongest one piece of advice ifanyone's listening and they're
thinking of quitting their job.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
A gun on an entrepreneurial.
Your one bit of advice that youwish you knew all those years
ago when you decided to jumpship and do it your own way I
would say you know it's a bitstandard, but find a niche but,
more importantly, make it apassive income.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I don't think passive income is discussed enough
between businesses, um, so I'mmaking sure you have money
coming every single month like asubscription.
I think subscription-basedbusinesses are definitely the
way to go.
You know, I've created two withkyco and and closer app, but it
does help with those sort ofsleepless nights because you
know that you don't have to landa particular deal for the money
(41:31):
to come in.
So every single month, you knowwhat money is going to come in,
regardless of if you put zerowork in or if you work every
single day.
If you want zero work in or ifyou work every single day.
If you want to work everysingle day, then yes, that
monthly sum next month willalways increase because you're
going to gather more clients.
However, if you get to acertain size and you want to
take a week or two off or threeweeks off, you know you're going
(41:52):
to get the same amount of moneycoming in anyway, as long as
you're dealing with the support,the support side of things.
So my biggest piece of advicewould be try and find something
of a passive income?
Yeah, um, I think that is isvital in the modern day, with
everything being pretty muchdigital yeah, my business is
completely different.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I can't have a passive income, but there are so
many times I've tried and triedto work out if there's a way
possible.
Yeah, do you know one thingthat I read the other day?
There's a barbers that have nowa subscription.
Yes, there's a mean.
I'd love that.
I would do that every if I knewthat I was paying.
What if I was paying 40 quid amonth to a barber subscription?
(42:29):
And I could go in two, threetimes have my hair cut.
Do you know I'd be there once aweek?
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I'd be there once a week.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, I would go there once a week.
I think that's phenomenal forbarbers.
If you're a barbershoplistening, then get in touch
with Nathan and he can probablyhelp you set all that up.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
We don't have one at the moment, but I'm certain we
can build it.
That's how we can do it.
But it's really funny.
You mentioned haircuts becauseliterally last night or the
night before I was thinkingsingle day, I think, I worked
out.
I pay about 300, about 500 quidfor the year Because my
haircuts aren't a lot.
I think I paid 20 pounds for mylocal hairdressers, but I get
(43:04):
it done once a month, sonormally it gets all frizzy and
absolute mess.
Lucky for you, I thought I'ddress myself up a little bit
today, wearing snow leopardshorts and a black bin bag top.
But yeah, I think 500 pound isthe sum that I'd put on there.
I wake up every day, no matterwhat it's as I want it and it's
done.
So having a subscription wouldbe a really good idea and um a
(43:25):
great idea of a passive income.
A lot of restaurants that we wework with are thinking about
introducing like vip cards, sofor sort of short-term cash
injections, so they couldintroduce a vip black card.
So you pay 40 pound for theyear, you get 10 off every time
you go and visit.
Now for your locals andregulars it's an absolute
(43:45):
blinding deal.
But if you're going to have athousand on your register book
and 100 people are signing up tothat, you know that's a four
grand injection instantly.
So a lot of people are startingto look down that route of vip
passes, vip cards, to get thatcash injection to help their
businesses.
So things like subscriptionsare just getting only ever more
popular, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I know some stories and it's sickening.
It's sickening what people areearning off of charging someone
£5 a month and giving them value.
Yeah, it's mad.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Well, the thing is, we're so used to it.
Now you know the averagehousehold has got Amazon, prime,
Netflix, spotify.
Nearly every single householdhas got those three and you're
talking 30, 40 quid just forthose three alone.
Got your bank account, but youdon't even think about it
because it's a must have.
And having an idea that is amust have will create that
(44:37):
passive income that I believeyou need to to to create.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so, before we wrap this up, what does success
mean to you?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Success means to me living a happy lifestyle, just a
lifestyle that you can wake up,love what you do.
I think loving what you do isthe key part of anything.
What don't do, what you don'tlike, and every day in a wake up
, presenting it, wondering is itworth it thinking about
changing jobs.
You have to do what you loveand I'm very fortunate to fall
into a place where I loveworking with independent
(45:05):
businesses.
They're real people on thefront line and I come into here,
I'm meeting the owner of thebusiness.
I go into a pub, I'm meetingthe landlord.
He's working every day on thefront line.
He knows his business like a,like a ship and his crew.
That's what I love dealing withpeople on the front line,
whereas in the corporate spaceit was sort of dealing with
drones a bit, because you callup people.
(45:27):
I've had 50 emails about thistoday already.
Or are you trying to sell meanother till machine, wi-fi
machine, car machine?
I've got all that.
I don't need ppPC websites andthey're just so sick of the same
thing every single day.
Whereas dealing with the locals, it's so rewarding because you
get pride in it, because you'rehelping them and and two, you
(45:48):
build such solid relationshipswhere, you know, I've been
invited to birthday parties andChristmas parties and all sorts
and all I do is help them on aday-to-day basis of their
technology.
So success for me is doingsomething you love and living a
lifestyle that isn't all aboutwork.
Yeah, easier said than donewhen you have a passive income,
rather than saying, well, youknow if they're going to close a
deal because you've got thepressure of that deal landing,
(46:11):
so, but I believe it's that.
Yeah, that's cool and lastly,has it all been worth it?
A hundred percent, yeah, ahundred percent, yeah.
I love.
I love every single day.
What I do every day isdifferent, um, and I get out of
bed smiling and I think ifyou're, if you're doing that,
you must be onto a winner.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, wicked.
Well, that's been Nathan HobdenReally lovely guy.
Go and check out Closer App.
If you've got a businesshospitality business around the
Sussex area and you don't knowabout Keiko, I strongly advise
you to drop him a line and he'llcome and have a chat with you.
So that's the Untold Podcast.
I've been Ashley, this has beenNathan, and we'll see you on
(46:52):
the next episode.
Thank you.
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